September 11, 2025 • 39 mins
On this episode of Political TrailMix we have Lucinda Guinn. Lucinda is a trailblazing Democratic strategist who made history as the first Latina to lead the DCCC and helped flip 24 House seats in 2018 with women candidates. Now at Ralston Lapp Guinn Media, she’s sharing how campaigns are won and what it really takes to change the game.
Website: rlgmediagroup.com
Socials: @lmguinn
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
I am Taryn Rosenkranz, and this isPolitical Trail Mix where strategy
meets storytelling, and everyepisode unpacks the people power
and politics shaping our country.
Let's dig in.
Thank you for coming here today.
I'm Taryn Rosencranz and eachweek I'm gonna bring a different
friend with me, uh, from my daysin Democratic politic politics.
(00:22):
And today I have with me Lucinda Guinn.
Who is joining me.
I'm gonna let her introduce herself,tell you a little bit about her,
but I know her from my days at thed ccc, the Democratic House party.
Committee that is dedicated toelecting more Democrats to the house.
But I'm gonna let her tell hera little bit about herself and
then we're gonna jump right in.
We're gonna discuss everythingunder the sun, um, which I think
(00:44):
is going to make it so much fun.
Next time we're gonnaactually do this with wine.
I think maybe somethingcoffee, something I don't know.
I would like to do over,do it from our offices.
Um, but we're gonna let her tellyou a little bit about yourself.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Thank you so much for having me, Taryn.
It is great to be with you todayfor your inaugural episode.
(01:05):
I'm so excited to have this conversation.
Um, my name's Lucinda Guinn.
I am a Democratic mediaconsultant at, um, I have a firm
called Ralston Lab, Gwen Media.
Um, and most of my career I've spent,um, working on campaigns and on
the road I was, uh, I've worked oncampaigns from Virginia to California
and lots of states in between.
Um, I, in my heart.
Still consider myself a campaign manager.
(01:27):
Um, but I met Taryn, uh, during mysecond tour of duty, uh, at the d ccc.
And, um, we got to spend some veryGuinn times working together that cycle.
And then we, um, and then I went tothe, uh, L-G-B-T-Q Victory Fund where I
was the political director and then wastapped by Emily's List to go over there.
I spent the better part of.
(01:47):
Almost three and a half cycles.
I was there running the campaignsdepartment, which means I oversaw the
federal and gubernatorial team, aswell as the campaign, as the state
and local team rather, um, at Emily'sList, which was, um, such a, a core
part of who I am and the missionsand the, the work that I love to do.
Um, I then, um, left Emily's List to gofor my third tour of duty at the DCCC,
(02:10):
where I served as the executive directorin the 2020 election cycle before.
Um.
Opening my farm.
So here we are.
I'm excited for the conversation.
Oh my gosh, this is amazing.
And um, all those tours of duty and wedo call them tours of duty because if
you've ever worked in democratic politics,they are a little bit of a door of duty.
Um, which actually kind of bringsus to our next question because
(02:30):
everything is a tour of duty.
Nowadays, because it's been a little bitof a rough year for Democrats, I will say.
Um, and so we wanna talka little bit about that.
Um, and so we're gonna do that.
The best way to explain it is apretty crappy year for Democrats,
but I, I do wanna kind of talk aboutthe fact that I think we were saying
(02:50):
earlier when we were chatting beforewe got started, that, you know.
This could be a littlebit of hope in the house.
Um, we don't always say that,but there's actually a very slim
margin right now for Democrats.
Like we could actually take this back.
Um, which, you know,let's not jinx anything.
I just knocked on wood.
I'm very superstitious.
Most political operatives are,um, we all have our rituals.
(03:14):
Um, but I do wanna say, I thinkthere's a lot of places where
there's actually some opportunity.
Um, and I know you know it and we knowit and we work on these, that there are
places where they can be under the radar.
There are places where, um, you know,Trump underperformed beside the fact that
it was like, you know, not victoriousat the end of the day for Kamala Harris.
(03:35):
There were places where, you know,Democrats actually did well that night.
Um, I know there were for our clients,so I'm just curious your take,
let me hear what you're thinking,if you feel the same or if you
think I'm delusional some people.
No, absolutely.
Taryn.
Look, it has been a. A rough year.
I mean, for America, I, I thinkit's just, you know, the impacts
that the Trump administration from.
(03:55):
Elon Musk with the chainsawto this horrible tax.
And frankly, frankly, slashing Medicaidbill that is in, in process in the house
right now is devastating for Americans.
Um, but you know, I, I do think there is aclear path to Democrats winning the house.
Um, there's a longstanding traditionof the non-presidential party winning
control of Congress in the midterms,and I think this will be no different.
(04:20):
Um, and I think, you know, you'llstart to see, you already see a lot
of momentum with, um, folks that arestepping up to run, that are kind
of not traditional candidates, whichis a lot of, frankly, what we saw in
20 18, 20 17 and 2018 in the kind ofbacklash to Trump's first election.
Um, I think you're seeinga lot more kind of.
Citizen candidate standup.
And that is, I think, very excitingas we look at our house map.
(04:44):
Um, so look, I think the first job of,uh, Democrats has gotta be to shore
up our incumbents, and we do have someincumbents that are in tough races.
You have, um, Marie Amp Perezin Washington state, Amelia
Sykes, Adam Gray in the, the.
Uh, central Valley ofCalifornia, he won his race.
He was the last race of the 2024election cycle to be called.
He won by 187 votes.
(05:06):
So there's some work that we needto go do to make sure that we're
shoring folks like that up, but theopportunity on this map is, is Guinn,
and we have reasons to be optimistic.
Right.
There's, um, you know, the,the state of Arizona you have.
David Schweikert, um, in the Phoenix area,the guy has multiple ethics violations.
(05:26):
Mm-hmm.
He literally used taxpayerdollars to go to the Super Bowl.
He votes with the right wing of his party.
Um, you have Juan Siskain the Tucson area.
Um, Juan Siska is is someone who, he,he's a Republican who he likes to play a
moderate on tv, but he's actually like a,he's part of an organization called the
Patriot Academy, which is this extreme.
(05:48):
Right wing organization that ofcourse is anti-choice, is incredibly,
um, evangelical religious.
They also are preparing for a comingwar, and so they are like, they do
these malicious style trainings.
It's crazy.
It's crazy.
They do these like malicious styletrainings where they train kids as
young as 11 years old to preparefor the coming war like he is.
(06:10):
Yeah.
As far right as they come,but he presents as a moderate.
So, um, you know, it, it puts up thisfacade that I think we have to break
through in order to take him down.
But he's abso this is one of theclosest elections we had in the last two
election cycles was in this district.
So, so that's anotherone to keep an eye on.
You have, um, in Michigan you have acouple of really competitive seats.
Um, John James has had one ofhis closest reelections, or
(06:33):
two of his closest reelections.
The last, I think the last two, right?
Yeah.
Yep, totally.
He's running for governornow, so the seat is open.
And look, I, you know, not to speakill of people, but you know, I think he
had a pretty flawed democratic nomineerunning against him the last two cycles.
So now there will be a primary with somereally cool, interesting candidates on our
side, as well as on the Republican side.
(06:55):
Um, they're gonna have to duke it out tofigure out who's gonna be their nominee.
So I think the right, thestate of Michigan just presents
additional opportunities.
Um.
So, so I could go on and on.
I will stop.
So we don't have a two hour podcast,but you know, I, I do, I think there's
lots of reasons to be optimistic and,and it lives in some swing states
like Arizona and Michigan and alsosome places like, uh, you know,
(07:16):
California, New York, Washington state.
Like there are places wherewe need to go do work that are
not traditional swing states.
Yeah, no, I think that's totally rightand I think the path is definitely there.
And if we go back and we look atthese other non-presidential years.
There's always more opportunity therein the non-presidential years for sure.
And I think all of those, I mean,those are such extreme stories.
(07:37):
It's like.
Scary.
This is scary stuff.
Very scary stuff.
Um, I do think one of the things that,you know, happened last cycle in 2024.
Um, we talk in cycles and I, Iapologize, like to anyone outside
of like the political operativeworld, they're like cycles.
What are you talking about?
So we'll talk years for a second.
I'll say 2024.
One of the big wins and youknow, we worked on them here,
(07:59):
um, at New Blue where I work.
But I know you, I think you worked onsome too, and you definitely did when
you were at Emily's List, but lot ofbig things happened last year with the
ballot initiatives with abortion, andI think that was just very exciting.
Um, and I know, you know, we justhad so much amazing progress after
having this heartbreaking losswith everything that did happen.
(08:20):
And, and I'm just, you know, kindof curious if you think that.
It's gonna be, abortion will besort of a key part of the dialogue
again in 2026 if we think that thisis going to be something that is
probably part of every election.
You know, I don't, I don't know.
I'm just so curious of your take sinceyou had such an important role at
Emily's List and because of who you are.
(08:40):
I'm just really wanna hear yourexpertise and take on this.
Yeah, I mean.
I think all of us would love for women'srights and abortion rights to get shored
up and we thought they were for years.
Right.
Um, and so, you know, the Dobbsdecision, which undid Roe v. Wade, um.
It has had really ripplingeffects throughout the country.
And so you've seen that show up inballot measures across the country
(09:03):
where we've had tremendous success.
And I think we'll continue to seewhere we haven't had them yet and where
we're able to get them on the ballot.
I think we'll continue to see, um,abortion rights ballot measures pop up.
Um, they are a driver Ithink of turnout for us.
I think they, um, really do end the six.
In, in what are frankly toughstates sometimes really shows that
(09:24):
America is truly pro-choice, right?
America does believe in women's rightsto their, have their own reproductive
freedom and take care of themselves.
Um, so I think you'll continue to seethat at the ballot measure level and.
And I just, I don't know how itcompletely goes away in this kind of
post Roe v Wade world we live in, insideof our elections, there are very far
(09:46):
right members of Congress and membersof the Senate who would like nothing
more than to ban abortion nationally.
And that will impact women even inblue states if that were to happen.
Um, so, you know, I, Ithink you've seen, um.
Our personal freedoms be attacked inunder this administration in so many
(10:07):
ways from the Trump administrationthreatening to send us citizens to
prisons in El Salvador to threatsagainst the L-G-B-T-Q community.
Right.
And, and women's rightsare still under attack.
So I, I think you'll continue to seeour rights in our freedoms in every way.
Show up at the ballot box.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's so crazy because I, the,the way it impacts like everybody.
(10:30):
Um, in just different ways about howthey're addressing their everyday lives.
Like I can't imagine it notbeing at the ballot box.
Like, I was just hearing people talk theother day, um, where they were saying
about their kids choosing collegesand they're like, well, I'm not gonna
send my kid to a college in Texas.
Or, and I was like, what?
Like really?
(10:51):
I mean, yes, because, but.
Yes.
Right.
Like I was suddenly like, oh, of course.
Like I, I like wouldn't even havethought that in my head, but yeah.
Okay.
And then like a friend was tellingme that they were driving in their
first trimester, like back to theirhome in Illinois and they didn't
want to drive through Indianafor fear something would happen.
(11:13):
I know I'm like getting emotionalas she's telling this story
because she's so fearful.
She'll get in a car accident andsomething would happen and she would
have to be in a hospital and be.
Faced with this horriblechurch and I'm like.
Practically spilling tears down my face.
I'm like, are you serious?
This is so horrible.
And the child not being ableto go to like this wonderful
college that she wants to go to.
(11:34):
And I'm thinking, oh my God, is this gonnabe something that we're all faced with?
And then like my mom and her friendsand everybody thought they fought
for this and they like did it.
And like we're all like, I know youwere at the Emily's gala the other day
and like we all are like sitting there.
It's like 40 years and you're like.
Yay.
But like, also like the, like heartbreakof this like, wait, we're here again.
(11:57):
Like full circle didn't go anywhere.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I think, you know, our mothersand grandmothers fought for
these rights so that we, I knowhave to, and here we are again.
It's, it's devastating to women all overthe country and just as scary for women.
In California and New York and like kindof traditionally blue states is we have
this really extreme right wing congress.
(12:20):
So it's um, I, I just don't see aworld in which it's going to not be a
topic that we talk about until actuallywomen have the rights that we deserve.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
And I think we all are like sittinghere and I know you and I like
when I wanted to do this podcast is'cause I said there are so many of
my friends who are sitting in states.
(12:40):
Or or sitting just as political operaand we're all like, what do we do to do?
Like people don't know what to do.
And if you're not a political operative,you really don't know what to do.
Right?
So I do feel like this is,I want to give people hope.
We talked about this at the beginning,but I also want like people to understand
there are things you can do becausethese midterms are that important, right?
(13:01):
Like these midterms are a wayfor people to, the house was.
Is really, really important becauselike you said, this far right,
Republican congress, like it, everyseat actually does matter, like Right.
Because really does, like,it really does matter.
Like these ballot initiatives matter, butlike every level of government matters.
Like, um, it really is, isis that critically important?
(13:22):
Yeah.
Um.
Totally.
Um, I just, when you were d ccc, executivedirector, see we're talking about hope.
I'm gonna go back to hope.
I'm going back to cheerfulnesshere for a second.
You can have hope.
We were like, hope.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it was a tough, it was also atough time and you were there, uh,
at like COVID and just these likereally you unique time, but it was
also a victorious time and I'm.
(13:44):
Curious if there was something, somerecipe for success or one thing that
you thought made a difference orthat was helpful towards victory or
towards like expanding the map or,or getting into some of these places?
You know, I'm just, I was thinkingif there was anything that we
are, as we're thinking about this.
You know, in that context that youthink, you know, we should be doing?
(14:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, look, I think, um, there is a kindof three part strategy that we followed.
Mm-hmm.
That.
I think can be and is being replicated.
Just to be clear, I think it's, Ithink a lot of folks really believe in
this, but, but to me, I think we did avery Guinn job of doing three things.
Number one, we worked very hardto shore up our incumbents in the
(14:30):
off year, and that looks like alot of things that can look like
shoring up their field operation.
Making sure that money is coming in thedoor and they are well-funded operations,
making sure they're staffed properly, andthose are all things you can do before
voters are ever paying attention, right?
You can do those things in January,february, March, April of the off year
before you get into the election year,and that is such a critical piece of it.
(14:53):
Um, there are, I mentioned, youknow, Adam Gray in the Central
Valley before who won by 187 votes.
He's doing a tremendous jobright now inside of his campaign,
but it'll always be tough.
So there will just be some of thoseseats that'll always be tough.
So you have to make sure they have allthe tools they need to take care of.
That of what they can and that the,there is budget to take care of them as
(15:13):
like the institutions as the party hasthe budget to take care of those folks.
So I think that's step one.
Um, step two is the core battlefields,and those are kind of the, um, pickup
opportunities across the country.
There is a handful of seats whereRepublicans are sitting right now
in districts that Joe Biden won.
There's um, also seats that, um,republicans are sitting in that Trump
(15:35):
won by the narrowest of margins.
And so, um, you know, I think the DTripp put out a really comprehensive
list of about 35 of those coredistricts across the country that
are, um, that should be a real focus.
This is where it is the, you know,the party committee's job to go in,
recruit really strong candidates,help them build strong campaigns like.
(15:56):
It is all about fundamentals.
I know that's not the sexyfun, we're gonna test this new
fun technology, digital stuff.
But like campaigns are still campaigns.
They have to havefundamentals that are strong.
They have to have, we have to have strongcandidates, they have to be well-funded,
they have to have strong staffs thatcan help them stand up of strong
operation so they can see what's coming.
(16:17):
So part that's part two, right?
Is like.
How are we gonna flip the seats?
And, and then there's part three,which is expanding the battlefields.
And this is something that in the 2020cycle, I think we did really well.
I think across the board, frankly,everyone, Republicans, democrats,
everyone underestimated what Trump onthe ballot was gonna do to turn out.
(16:38):
And so when we expandedthe map into places like.
Arkansas and tough districtsin Texas, places like that.
What we were doing is we were forcingRepublicans to chase us with their money
and investment to go shore up membersthat were their incumbents, right?
Yeah.
Um, that we said, we, we seeyou and we're coming for you.
(17:01):
And what that does is it does two things.
One, if right, if, if there is awave and like the sales are up,
it is gonna help get so many moreDemocrats over the finish line.
So that's the first thing it does.
The other thing it does is it, it helpsprevent spending against otherwise,
um, kind of endangered incumbents.
Like by us going and putting braceson the map in Texas and in Arkansas,
(17:24):
we made sure folks didn't spendagainst Law Underwood in Illinois,
who has a tough district in Illinois.
And, and that was super helpfulto us being able to maintain
the majority of that cycle.
So those are the threesteps that I know are not.
Sexy, but they are critical to us doingto be able to hold onto the seats of
weapon and take to flip a few more.
(17:46):
I have found in all the years I'vebeen doing this that the least sexy
things are what Win races totally.
Totally.
I mean, if you're like in the NFL, I'mthe worst person to make a sports analogy.
Like it's silly that I'm doing this, butlike, no, I'm, I'm probably the worst.
But I'll let you do it and then wecan just like, make it seem like ugh.
No, I mean you're stilldoing, doing sprints.
You have to go to the weight room.
(18:08):
Yeah, you have to eat well.
Like you have to like, you know, youhave to eat your vegetables in order to
like go do the fun things you wanna do.
And that means building strong campaigns.
Yeah, no, for sure.
It is always the infrastructureand the boring stuff.
Um, and I, I've told peoplea million times, especially
in digital, like everybody isalways chasing the shiny object.
(18:28):
And I'm like, look, at the end ofthe day when it comes to digital,
it is never the shiny object.
You know, back in the day it waslike the viral video and I'm like,
listen, it is never the viralvideo that is doing it in digital.
It is like that we are targetinga universe and following
these like micro-target.
I mean, it's like the nerdy stuff, right?
The stuff that you didn't wanna payattention to in school, in digital,
(18:49):
that is actually making the difference.
It is not the viral video, but Iget it because it's much more fun.
Um, and it's much more shiny and weall love the shiny object, but it's
my, my favorite client question ishow do I make this video go viral?
Yes.
If you don't, and that is the answer,my friends, that is the secret sauce.
(19:10):
And that is not the recipe forsuccess that we answer, not having.
We can, we can tell you guys that part.
We, that's our big tip for the day.
Um, I will say though, um, one of thequestions that I love to ask, because.
As Lucinda said, she is now runsa very successful, works as a
partner in a very successful adagency, uh, democratic ad agency.
(19:33):
And so I really love to talk topeople about the trans ad from
the presidential campaign becauseit's all anyone can talk about.
So it's kind of like the, that reallywas a viral, that was a viral video.
There you go.
Um, but I know that I went to thatpostmortem after the fact and the Trump
campaign was like, that is why we won.
And they love to say that.
(19:54):
Um, and what they do love to say,I think is really that they went
to unlikely voters and they sortof targeted them with messages that
they thought would bombard them.
And they also did it on mediumswhere they felt like we couldn't
necessarily respond as easily.
And so I think that the trans, um.
Video was something too thatlike, it, it, it hit home in,
(20:16):
in a couple of different ways.
And, and so I'm just curious, um, whatyou thought the impact was and, and sort
of your take on it, especially as one.
Yeah, yeah.
Look, I think as Democrats, I thinkone of our parties flaws is that we
have this bad habit of kind of shyingaway from tough topics like tough.
Topics come up and we kind of look atour shoes 'cause we're not really sure.
(20:38):
We don't wanna push pissoff people on the left.
And you don't wanna bring theI of the right, like Yeah.
It, it is pretty, um, it, it is a, aspace where I think, look, I think our
members and our candidates all want tobe on the right side of history here.
Like I worked at the L-G-B-T-Q VictoryFund, I was their political director.
Um.
Trans rights, gay and lesbianrights have been under attack for
(21:02):
decades, and they're not stopping.
They're not stopping anytime soon.
Republicans have found this transissue that has some salience with
some swing voters, and it's sogross that they are doing this.
I I. But I do believe that at our core.
Most Democrats want to be on the rightside of history here and will do what's
(21:22):
right, but somehow by running that adbragging about that ad, they have twisted
it to seem like, make it seem likeDemocrats are spending all of our time.
Worried about trans people andpassing bills for trans people.
Like they, they, they've managedto somehow pin on us that this
(21:42):
is how we're spending our time.
When in fact they are the people who ranthe trans ad. That they are the people
bringing it up in state legislatures overand over and, and most Republican state
legislatures in the country, it came upinside of this 2025 legislative session.
They are taking their eye off the ball.
They are distracting us with.
(22:04):
Like this, this like social issue asthey call, like we're, we're the party
of social issues, but somehow they'respending all their time doing it.
I mean, we were, are,we're so proud as a caucus.
We elected Sarah McBride.
She's the first trans member of the House,democratic Caucus of of Congress, period.
And.
In November before all of the memberswere sworn in, you saw Republican,
(22:26):
Nancy Mace, you know, passing RESOor trying to put up resolutions to
like prevent her from using the rightbathrooms and how like it's crazy.
What are we doing?
You just ran a whole campaignsaying we're not paying attention.
You're taking your IF football.
How about.
As a legislative body,we protect healthcare.
(22:47):
How about we protect, um, people'sability to buy their groceries?
How about we actually do address thecost issues that are going on right
now, and instead, you know, they'respending their time running these
ads, putting up these crazy bills,and meanwhile, you know, cutting taxes
for billionaires like Elon Musk onthe backs of middle class families.
So I, I just think it's somethingthat we need to be a little more
(23:10):
forceful about calling them out on.
Yeah.
And it, it's so heartbreaking.
I actually, when I was at the VictoryFund, um, I heard Sarah McBride tell
this story about how, I don't know ifyou heard this, but like she was talking
about how they chased, um, a woman intothe bathroom who they thought was her.
And they were like, attacking this womanwho was not her, was not Sarah McBride.
(23:33):
And they're like, getout, get out, get out.
And she's like.
It was a woman.
It was a woman who just happenedto have shoulder length brown hair.
And she's like, so now we're atthe point where we're just like,
you don't look woman enough.
And the, you know, you don'tlook woman enough, you don't,
you're like, I mean, right.
You don't look like us, you don't actlike us, like you don't walk like us.
(23:54):
So she's like, where does this end?
Um, where does this end?
You don't look the woman enough.
That's now what we're paying attentionto, instead of like the cost of groceries,
which was supposed to go down, right.
Instead, eggs are likethe cost of a small car.
Um, you know, it's like right,like people couldn't die eggs at
(24:17):
Easter because they were literally.
Like, you wouldn't wannawaste that, you know?
Um, giant and potatoes, right?
That's right.
That's right.
Um, but it's like insanity.
And yet the, we're chasing thisperson into the bathroom 'cause
you don't look woman enough.
Like what?
It's horrible.
It just, it was so insane and hypocriticaland awful to me and so heartbreaking.
(24:40):
But when she told this story,it's like, again, you're just.
We're back to this heartbreak,which is the only word I can think
of every time because I think Doge.
Is like, there's nothingmore heartbreaking than
the ironic ness of this.
This is efficiency.
And these people, they'rebeing double paying and there
there's no cancer research.
(25:01):
I mean, it's like every single time I'mlike, I cannot, I a hundred percent.
Um, just so, so awful.
Um, the, the reason I sort of wantedto talk a little bit more, dig a
little more into this about ads isbecause I, you know, I do digital.
You do ad traditional ads andwe work together and we do
this in so many different ways.
'cause I think how we get themessage out, so much of what we've
(25:24):
been talking about too is likemisinformation and we get at this, right?
Like I think what you were sayingtoo is that we didn't respond, right?
Like, because we let that message sitthere a little bit because it wasn't
getting back and then the media isn'tresponding in the same traditional sense.
So like, yeah.
I, I, I think that means we need tobe listening and like, so we think
(25:48):
traditionally we gotta respond on socialmedia as well, and we gotta have digital.
But I think it also does leave room,and I'm sure you know, this is from you.
I'm, I'm sure that means that that'sreally still an opportunity, uh, that the
ads are just as important, but we need tomake response ads and like be there with
those, um, you know, and, and, and havethose out there and be really direct.
(26:11):
Um, I think those are types ofads you guys make and that you do.
Yeah, yeah.
That, those are the kindsof things that happen.
Um, yeah, absolutely.
I think, look, I, I thinkour media environment is so
splintered, so you see, you know.
I mean, I know when I scroll through mysocial media, it is so tailored to me.
Yeah.
(26:31):
And it really does emphasize thiskind of bubble we all live in.
And it, it makes it hard to imaginewhat other people's bubbles are saying.
Right.
And so it, it is, it does put the onus on.
Taryn and I as ad makers andbuyers to make sure we're getting
eyeballs on our content, which,you know, is oftentimes rebuttals.
(26:55):
Oftentimes it's just our story, oftentimesit's attacks on and, and trying to inform
people about the records of our opponents.
Um, and, and so that, that issomething that is a lot harder now
than it was 20 years ago, and that's.
Not hard to imagine.
We all, you know, we sit on ourphones in front of our TVs and we
scroll and we watch TV differentlywith different streaming services
(27:18):
and there are cord cutters now,so it does make it harder, right?
Yeah.
But it, it is really important, um, thatwe, I think, respond and make sure we're,
we're responding in the right spaces.
So I, I know there is this,like TV's dying that 50% of
people still have traditional.
TV and cable, 50% of people inthis, in this country, right?
So we cannot just cut this off.
(27:41):
We cannot just say like, okay,we're just not gonna talk to them.
And you have half of people whoare so-called co cord cutters.
That's what we would call someone thatcancels their cable and maybe has.
Um, only streaming services, butthat can also make up kind of,
um, YouTube tv, sling Hulu tv.
And that's the Venn diagrambetween Terrance and my work.
(28:03):
Right?
Like there is a giant Venn diagramof folks who are cord cutters who
need to be delivered streamingservices, ads on streaming services,
and they need to be, see the contentthat we're putting out there.
And they need to see the contentthat we're putting out on
traditional linear television.
Right.
So I, I think it's not outta the realmof possibility in a household for someone
(28:24):
to get up and watch the Today Show inthe morning and then click on Hulu and
you know, try to watch, watch programsthat have ad interruptions inside.
So it's important that we are, youknow, making sure that we're creating
really Guinn and impactful contentand delivering it to the right people.
Yeah, and I think the data.
Actually is imperfect.
(28:45):
And so it's not just importantto your point that it's getting
there, but it's also that it'sgetting to the right person.
Because the truth is that'sa television that's shared.
And so there's different peoplein that household who might be
watching and we should make surethat that person gets that message.
'cause sometimes we microtarget and you know what?
Guinn old fashioned, you know, TVcommercials that used to come on when
(29:08):
a family was watching can influencesometimes, and we can get that message
out and it can influence someone.
Sometimes they need to be persuaded.
We don't need to justhave this curated message.
Sometimes we can persuade someone.
Who we might not think we could have.
So I love the idea that like Guinnold fashioned commercials can persuade
someone we might not think we can.
(29:29):
Um, so we shouldn't just assume, youknow, we shouldn't just assume that we can
only turn the mind of some person like.
Um, I just think that sometimes,you know, Barack Obama appealed
to a lot of people who we didn'tthink he was gonna appeal to.
So I sometimes love the idea thatthere is hope that we can persuade
other people's minds, um, especiallybecause geography has become this,
(29:53):
like, settled in our minds, that there'sa divide between this part of the
country and this part of the country.
And I don't think thatthat's necessarily true.
Um, you know, I just, Ithink where I grew up.
In Virginia.
You know, some people just madeassumptions about that, but I was more
Northern Virginia than Southern andeven that part in this, and I just
(30:14):
don't think it has to be that way.
And I, I'm just curious, I know a littlebit about your background, but tell me a
little bit about growing up and how youthink that influenced you and maybe why
that drove you into politics or didn't.
I'm kind of, kind ofcurious about that with you.
Yeah, so I, I grew up in El Paso, Texas.
Um, it is the very TippetyWest Point of Texas.
(30:34):
Um, and it is a giant metro.
Very Guinn food thereif no one's been there.
Sorry, say that again.
I said very Guinn food there.
If, if you haven't been there, hit me up.
I'll send you all the rack.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, so it's a border community, andso El Paso has about 700,000 people
in it, and it's a shared bordercommunity with Juarez, Mexico.
Mexico, and there are over a millionpeople in that kind of metro area.
(30:58):
Um, so my parents were teachers.
I didn't, um, grow up in a particularlypolitical household by any means.
Um, but, uh, George W. Bush was ourgovernor when I was growing up, and.
He was road testing.
No child left behind in Texas schools.
And so I certainly, obviously kindof knew what that meant as a student.
Not really.
(31:18):
I mean, if we're beinghonest, no, I, I didn't, yeah.
I was a kid who like cared about,you know, going to band on time
and like getting like fresh.
Um, but like, um, but you know, Icould, I could feel the pressures
of it from my parents and theconversations my parents had.
So I think that's one piece that reallyinfluenced me and helped me get involved.
And, you know, the other thingI would say, you know, we
were talking earlier about.
(31:38):
Democrats kind of looking at theirshoes and not tackling tough issues.
I grew up in a border community andum, folks who follow me on social media
know that a lot of my charitable givingI give to the rescue mission of El
Paso and I give to Annunciation house.
It is a community where it is an entrypoint for a lot of migrants who are coming
to America to look for a better life.
And those two organizations service,um, migrants who are in need of
(32:02):
shelter, food, housing, and what Iknow, you know, there's all this like.
Ugly Republican rhetoric oflike, oh, the border, the crisis.
It's a war zone.
And I've literally met peoplewho are like, oh my God, you
must have grown up in a war zone.
It is a crazy thing to say, like, my,my El Paso is a giving loving El Paso,
and when somebody reaches out theirhand, we reach down and we pull 'em up.
(32:24):
And so, um, you know, I thinkyou can be a democrat who.
Believes in a full pathway to citizenshipand believes in a secure border.
And you can say that with a straight face.
And those are not at the ideasthat we're at odds with each other.
And so I, I think that definitelyhas shaped me and helped me, um, talk
to my candidates about immigrationand that the, you know, it's gonna
(32:46):
come up in every congressional racein the country this year, so you
have to be ready to talk about it.
Um, and I think that certainlyhelped me over the years.
Absolutely.
Um, that's wonderful and I got goosebumpswhen you said it because it's so true.
I love that.
Um, I think that one of the otherthings that I would be remiss if we
didn't chat a little bit about, becauseI know, um, you certainly felt it.
(33:10):
I know that I, um, Ifelt it over the years.
I just, being a woman in, in politics,um, and being a political operative,
it's been, it's, it's certainly hard.
I'm, I'm sure, um.
Donna, Brazil and some of the folksbefore us whose shoulders we've
stood on, uh, would fa say it too.
Um, but it's, it's certainly, um,a challenge for a lot of reasons.
(33:32):
I always say being in tech and digitalalso is like always a little bit extra.
I bet.
A little extra there too.
Um, but I'm just, you know, any.
Any advice you might have ifsomebody was thinking about it now?
Um, going into it or anybodywho's going through it?
'cause I think we're stillall going through it.
Um, that you might have for somebody.
(33:52):
Yeah, we are.
And I'm sure you've had this experience,Taryn, I feel like certainly my
own imposter syndrome has mm-hmm.
Reared its ugly head throughout my career.
And I think that the top questionI get from young women coming up
in this business is like, how do Iget through this imposter syndrome?
How do I do this?
Um, I'm actually one of the coachesfor the Blue Leadership Collaborative,
(34:13):
which is this awesome organization, um,run by the Zinc Collective that, um.
Helps make sure that we'rediversifying our manager core.
And so, you know, when I started managing,there were very few women doing that work
and, and Blue Leadership Collaborativeis helping women, um, L-G-B-T-Q, um,
(34:34):
people come up and manage Black Brown.
A API like.
It is a wonderful, wonderful organizationthat's helping, um, really diversify
the folks who are our future leadersand, and it is critical to our work.
Um, so, you know, I think the mainquestion I get from folks, especially
inside that program, is like, how doI get through this imposter syndrome?
And, and I wish there was likean easy answer to that, but my,
(34:55):
my, the best answer I've comeacross was from Shonda Rhimes.
Love her.
Take me to Shondaland any day.
Um, a few years ago she wrotea book called The Year of Yes.
Um, for those of you that have read it,and she has this section about imposter
syndrome, where she says the way youget through it is that you earn it.
Hmm.
And there is nothing more true.
You have to stand up and you have topractice and you have to try and you
(35:20):
have to learn your craft so that youcan be sitting at the head of the
table running the meeting and sometimesyou're gonna fall down in the meeting
and scratch your knee and that's okay.
That's okay.
You get back up and thenyou're stronger next time.
And, and I just, thatreally resonated with me.
'cause I feel like it hasbeen my experience that.
No one, certainly no one was gonna handyou or I anything, or any, you know,
(35:41):
responsibility that we didn't fight for.
And so, you know, you reallygotta, you gotta earn it.
You gotta make your way there.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
I have told everyone, shamelessself-promotion is not a bad thing
and you need to be Guinn at it.
Right.
Um, and I, I will say, God blessBrian Wolf, but he told me a long
time ago that I was really Guinnat doing my job and I needed to put
(36:01):
my head up and I was like, what?
He is like, you keep yourhead down all the time.
You need to get your head upand like start talking about it.
And, uh, I remember I likethought, oh, I know what you mean.
Like, I just was likereally busy doing the job.
Yeah.
And if you're really busy doingthe job, you're not talking
about how you're doing the job.
That's right.
You need to, that's right.
You need need to tell peoplethat you're doing the job.
(36:23):
Yeah.
So people need to know that.
Um, and that's the shamelessself permission, especially if
you're gonna run a business.
You have to be able to tell folksthat you're, you're doing a great job.
Yeah.
That's kind of the battle, and that'swhy candidates and elected officials
are really Guinn at that, and that ispart of winning races, which we were
talking about the off year, right?
Like they have to talk abouttheir accomplishments and they
forget that sometimes too.
(36:44):
I feel like that's been so muchof what we've, I've been talking
about with my electeds right now.
I'm like, you have totell them what you did.
It's great that you're doing the workright now, but you actually have to tell
them all the great things you're doing.
Um.
You gotta, you gotta tell them about allthe things you're doing, you do right now.
Everybody's angry, nobody's gonnaknow, otherwise you don't get,
yeah, just because you got an Ain class doesn't make you, you
(37:06):
don't get credit for that actually.
Yeah.
You gotta an, you gotta put a bumpersticker on the back of your car that
you have a kid on the honor roll.
Like you gotta do it.
Yeah.
Um, all right.
So my last and final thing to you, I wannaknow what your prediction is for 2026.
I I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you, I'mgonna put you on the line, just one.
You don't have to have, like,we're gonna win the house, Taryn.
(37:28):
We're gonna win the houseand I think we're win some
awesome gubernatorial seats.
Um, uh, most of the gubernatorialmap is up this cycle, which
we haven't talked about.
There's a lot of guber.
But, but I feel, I feeloptimistic about that.
I think, um, you know, we sawtwo special elections happen
in super red seats in Florida.
We just saw a WisconsinSupreme Court race.
(37:50):
Right.
Um, in that we won that SupremeCourt race, um, by a significant
margin, and, and our candidate wonin really tough places in Wisconsin.
Well, listen, we were nevergonna win those Florida seats.
They are r plus 30 seats, butpick it up 15 points is, I know.
Huge.
And so if we can do that in seats thatare down, 10 seats that are down five,
(38:11):
we're gonna be incredibly successful.
And that gives me hope.
'cause we have to put a check onthis president and the house is
our best way to put a check on him.
A hundred percent.
I love it.
I love it.
I like this prediction.
And I actually, I agree with youand my big thing was that they.
Had these town halls and peoplewere like throwing at them.
Wow.
And I likened it to like 2010.
(38:33):
Like, because Yes, the downfallfor us on the other side, right.
Town hall, the tea partyor like the protest.
The bad.
Yes.
And I was like, and everyone'slike, oh, but the Democrats,
they don't have a message.
And they're like, neither did theRepublicans and we lost a lot of seats.
Right.
So let's, let's see it the reverse.
Yeah, exactly.
We're doing what's your,what's your prediction, Taryn?
Give it to me.
(38:53):
Um, I think we're gonna win the house.
I agree with you there.
And I actually think that we coulddo very well, like across the board.
Like we could really, we couldreally, really do well because my
hope is that they are overconfidentand I want them to keep being
overconfident and just let's under theradar they think that we're a mask.
Let them wear a mask.
(39:14):
That's fine.
I was like, in fact, guys don't beunified because it turns out when
2024 and we were all unified andlike, we're gonna pull this together.
They didn't like that.
So just like let them thinkwe're a mask and under the radar
we're just gonna slide on by.
We better.
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
I can't wait.
(39:35):
All right.
Well thank you so much for joining meand like I said, next time we'll do
this with wine or you know something.
Coffee?
Yes, please.
Some kind of, yeah.
Cocktail something very mature.
Thank you.
That's wonderful.
Thank you so much for having me, Karen.
This was fun.
Thanks for listeningto Political Trail Mix.
Make sure to follow and review whereveryou get your podcast and stay connected
with me on Instagram and YouTube.
Let's keep this conversation going.
I am Taryn Rosenkranz, and this isPolitical Trail Mix where strategy
meets storytelling, and everyepisode unpacks the people power
and politics shaping our country.
Let's dig in.
Thank you for coming here today.
I'm Taryn Rosencranz and eachweek I'm gonna bring a different
friend with me, uh, from my daysin Democratic politic politics.
(00:22):
And today I have with me Lucinda Guinn.
Who is joining me.
I'm gonna let her introduce herself,tell you a little bit about her,
but I know her from my days at thed ccc, the Democratic House party.
Committee that is dedicated toelecting more Democrats to the house.
But I'm gonna let her tell hera little bit about herself and
then we're gonna jump right in.
We're gonna discuss everythingunder the sun, um, which I think
(00:44):
is going to make it so much fun.
Next time we're gonnaactually do this with wine.
I think maybe somethingcoffee, something I don't know.
I would like to do over,do it from our offices.
Um, but we're gonna let her tellyou a little bit about yourself.
Awesome.
Awesome.
Thank you so much for having me, Taryn.
It is great to be with you todayfor your inaugural episode.
(01:05):
I'm so excited to have this conversation.
Um, my name's Lucinda Guinn.
I am a Democratic mediaconsultant at, um, I have a firm
called Ralston Lab, Gwen Media.
Um, and most of my career I've spent,um, working on campaigns and on
the road I was, uh, I've worked oncampaigns from Virginia to California
and lots of states in between.
Um, I, in my heart.
Still consider myself a campaign manager.
(01:27):
Um, but I met Taryn, uh, during mysecond tour of duty, uh, at the d ccc.
And, um, we got to spend some veryGuinn times working together that cycle.
And then we, um, and then I went tothe, uh, L-G-B-T-Q Victory Fund where I
was the political director and then wastapped by Emily's List to go over there.
I spent the better part of.
(01:47):
Almost three and a half cycles.
I was there running the campaignsdepartment, which means I oversaw the
federal and gubernatorial team, aswell as the campaign, as the state
and local team rather, um, at Emily'sList, which was, um, such a, a core
part of who I am and the missionsand the, the work that I love to do.
Um, I then, um, left Emily's List to gofor my third tour of duty at the DCCC,
(02:10):
where I served as the executive directorin the 2020 election cycle before.
Um.
Opening my farm.
So here we are.
I'm excited for the conversation.
Oh my gosh, this is amazing.
And um, all those tours of duty and wedo call them tours of duty because if
you've ever worked in democratic politics,they are a little bit of a door of duty.
Um, which actually kind of bringsus to our next question because
(02:30):
everything is a tour of duty.
Nowadays, because it's been a little bitof a rough year for Democrats, I will say.
Um, and so we wanna talka little bit about that.
Um, and so we're gonna do that.
The best way to explain it is apretty crappy year for Democrats,
but I, I do wanna kind of talk aboutthe fact that I think we were saying
(02:50):
earlier when we were chatting beforewe got started, that, you know.
This could be a littlebit of hope in the house.
Um, we don't always say that,but there's actually a very slim
margin right now for Democrats.
Like we could actually take this back.
Um, which, you know,let's not jinx anything.
I just knocked on wood.
I'm very superstitious.
Most political operatives are,um, we all have our rituals.
(03:14):
Um, but I do wanna say, I thinkthere's a lot of places where
there's actually some opportunity.
Um, and I know you know it and we knowit and we work on these, that there are
places where they can be under the radar.
There are places where, um, you know,Trump underperformed beside the fact that
it was like, you know, not victoriousat the end of the day for Kamala Harris.
(03:35):
There were places where, you know,Democrats actually did well that night.
Um, I know there were for our clients,so I'm just curious your take,
let me hear what you're thinking,if you feel the same or if you
think I'm delusional some people.
No, absolutely.
Taryn.
Look, it has been a. A rough year.
I mean, for America, I, I thinkit's just, you know, the impacts
that the Trump administration from.
(03:55):
Elon Musk with the chainsawto this horrible tax.
And frankly, frankly, slashing Medicaidbill that is in, in process in the house
right now is devastating for Americans.
Um, but you know, I, I do think there is aclear path to Democrats winning the house.
Um, there's a longstanding traditionof the non-presidential party winning
control of Congress in the midterms,and I think this will be no different.
(04:20):
Um, and I think, you know, you'llstart to see, you already see a lot
of momentum with, um, folks that arestepping up to run, that are kind
of not traditional candidates, whichis a lot of, frankly, what we saw in
20 18, 20 17 and 2018 in the kind ofbacklash to Trump's first election.
Um, I think you're seeinga lot more kind of.
Citizen candidate standup.
And that is, I think, very excitingas we look at our house map.
(04:44):
Um, so look, I think the first job of,uh, Democrats has gotta be to shore
up our incumbents, and we do have someincumbents that are in tough races.
You have, um, Marie Amp Perezin Washington state, Amelia
Sykes, Adam Gray in the, the.
Uh, central Valley ofCalifornia, he won his race.
He was the last race of the 2024election cycle to be called.
He won by 187 votes.
(05:06):
So there's some work that we needto go do to make sure that we're
shoring folks like that up, but theopportunity on this map is, is Guinn,
and we have reasons to be optimistic.
Right.
There's, um, you know, the,the state of Arizona you have.
David Schweikert, um, in the Phoenix area,the guy has multiple ethics violations.
(05:26):
Mm-hmm.
He literally used taxpayerdollars to go to the Super Bowl.
He votes with the right wing of his party.
Um, you have Juan Siskain the Tucson area.
Um, Juan Siska is is someone who, he,he's a Republican who he likes to play a
moderate on tv, but he's actually like a,he's part of an organization called the
Patriot Academy, which is this extreme.
(05:48):
Right wing organization that ofcourse is anti-choice, is incredibly,
um, evangelical religious.
They also are preparing for a comingwar, and so they are like, they do
these malicious style trainings.
It's crazy.
It's crazy.
They do these like malicious styletrainings where they train kids as
young as 11 years old to preparefor the coming war like he is.
(06:10):
Yeah.
As far right as they come,but he presents as a moderate.
So, um, you know, it, it puts up thisfacade that I think we have to break
through in order to take him down.
But he's abso this is one of theclosest elections we had in the last two
election cycles was in this district.
So, so that's anotherone to keep an eye on.
You have, um, in Michigan you have acouple of really competitive seats.
Um, John James has had one ofhis closest reelections, or
(06:33):
two of his closest reelections.
The last, I think the last two, right?
Yeah.
Yep, totally.
He's running for governornow, so the seat is open.
And look, I, you know, not to speakill of people, but you know, I think he
had a pretty flawed democratic nomineerunning against him the last two cycles.
So now there will be a primary with somereally cool, interesting candidates on our
side, as well as on the Republican side.
(06:55):
Um, they're gonna have to duke it out tofigure out who's gonna be their nominee.
So I think the right, thestate of Michigan just presents
additional opportunities.
Um.
So, so I could go on and on.
I will stop.
So we don't have a two hour podcast,but you know, I, I do, I think there's
lots of reasons to be optimistic and,and it lives in some swing states
like Arizona and Michigan and alsosome places like, uh, you know,
(07:16):
California, New York, Washington state.
Like there are places wherewe need to go do work that are
not traditional swing states.
Yeah, no, I think that's totally rightand I think the path is definitely there.
And if we go back and we look atthese other non-presidential years.
There's always more opportunity therein the non-presidential years for sure.
And I think all of those, I mean,those are such extreme stories.
(07:37):
It's like.
Scary.
This is scary stuff.
Very scary stuff.
Um, I do think one of the things that,you know, happened last cycle in 2024.
Um, we talk in cycles and I, Iapologize, like to anyone outside
of like the political operativeworld, they're like cycles.
What are you talking about?
So we'll talk years for a second.
I'll say 2024.
One of the big wins and youknow, we worked on them here,
(07:59):
um, at New Blue where I work.
But I know you, I think you worked onsome too, and you definitely did when
you were at Emily's List, but lot ofbig things happened last year with the
ballot initiatives with abortion, andI think that was just very exciting.
Um, and I know, you know, we justhad so much amazing progress after
having this heartbreaking losswith everything that did happen.
(08:20):
And, and I'm just, you know, kindof curious if you think that.
It's gonna be, abortion will besort of a key part of the dialogue
again in 2026 if we think that thisis going to be something that is
probably part of every election.
You know, I don't, I don't know.
I'm just so curious of your take sinceyou had such an important role at
Emily's List and because of who you are.
(08:40):
I'm just really wanna hear yourexpertise and take on this.
Yeah, I mean.
I think all of us would love for women'srights and abortion rights to get shored
up and we thought they were for years.
Right.
Um, and so, you know, the Dobbsdecision, which undid Roe v. Wade, um.
It has had really ripplingeffects throughout the country.
And so you've seen that show up inballot measures across the country
(09:03):
where we've had tremendous success.
And I think we'll continue to seewhere we haven't had them yet and where
we're able to get them on the ballot.
I think we'll continue to see, um,abortion rights ballot measures pop up.
Um, they are a driver Ithink of turnout for us.
I think they, um, really do end the six.
In, in what are frankly toughstates sometimes really shows that
(09:24):
America is truly pro-choice, right?
America does believe in women's rightsto their, have their own reproductive
freedom and take care of themselves.
Um, so I think you'll continue to seethat at the ballot measure level and.
And I just, I don't know how itcompletely goes away in this kind of
post Roe v Wade world we live in, insideof our elections, there are very far
(09:46):
right members of Congress and membersof the Senate who would like nothing
more than to ban abortion nationally.
And that will impact women even inblue states if that were to happen.
Um, so, you know, I, Ithink you've seen, um.
Our personal freedoms be attacked inunder this administration in so many
(10:07):
ways from the Trump administrationthreatening to send us citizens to
prisons in El Salvador to threatsagainst the L-G-B-T-Q community.
Right.
And, and women's rightsare still under attack.
So I, I think you'll continue to seeour rights in our freedoms in every way.
Show up at the ballot box.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it's so crazy because I, the,the way it impacts like everybody.
(10:30):
Um, in just different ways about howthey're addressing their everyday lives.
Like I can't imagine it notbeing at the ballot box.
Like, I was just hearing people talk theother day, um, where they were saying
about their kids choosing collegesand they're like, well, I'm not gonna
send my kid to a college in Texas.
Or, and I was like, what?
Like really?
(10:51):
I mean, yes, because, but.
Yes.
Right.
Like I was suddenly like, oh, of course.
Like I, I like wouldn't even havethought that in my head, but yeah.
Okay.
And then like a friend was tellingme that they were driving in their
first trimester, like back to theirhome in Illinois and they didn't
want to drive through Indianafor fear something would happen.
(11:13):
I know I'm like getting emotionalas she's telling this story
because she's so fearful.
She'll get in a car accident andsomething would happen and she would
have to be in a hospital and be.
Faced with this horriblechurch and I'm like.
Practically spilling tears down my face.
I'm like, are you serious?
This is so horrible.
And the child not being ableto go to like this wonderful
college that she wants to go to.
(11:34):
And I'm thinking, oh my God, is this gonnabe something that we're all faced with?
And then like my mom and her friendsand everybody thought they fought
for this and they like did it.
And like we're all like, I know youwere at the Emily's gala the other day
and like we all are like sitting there.
It's like 40 years and you're like.
Yay.
But like, also like the, like heartbreakof this like, wait, we're here again.
(11:57):
Like full circle didn't go anywhere.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I think, you know, our mothersand grandmothers fought for
these rights so that we, I knowhave to, and here we are again.
It's, it's devastating to women all overthe country and just as scary for women.
In California and New York and like kindof traditionally blue states is we have
this really extreme right wing congress.
(12:20):
So it's um, I, I just don't see aworld in which it's going to not be a
topic that we talk about until actuallywomen have the rights that we deserve.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
And I think we all are like sittinghere and I know you and I like
when I wanted to do this podcast is'cause I said there are so many of
my friends who are sitting in states.
(12:40):
Or or sitting just as political operaand we're all like, what do we do to do?
Like people don't know what to do.
And if you're not a political operative,you really don't know what to do.
Right?
So I do feel like this is,I want to give people hope.
We talked about this at the beginning,but I also want like people to understand
there are things you can do becausethese midterms are that important, right?
(13:01):
Like these midterms are a wayfor people to, the house was.
Is really, really important becauselike you said, this far right,
Republican congress, like it, everyseat actually does matter, like Right.
Because really does, like,it really does matter.
Like these ballot initiatives matter, butlike every level of government matters.
Like, um, it really is, isis that critically important?
(13:22):
Yeah.
Um.
Totally.
Um, I just, when you were d ccc, executivedirector, see we're talking about hope.
I'm gonna go back to hope.
I'm going back to cheerfulnesshere for a second.
You can have hope.
We were like, hope.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it was a tough, it was also atough time and you were there, uh,
at like COVID and just these likereally you unique time, but it was
also a victorious time and I'm.
(13:44):
Curious if there was something, somerecipe for success or one thing that
you thought made a difference orthat was helpful towards victory or
towards like expanding the map or,or getting into some of these places?
You know, I'm just, I was thinkingif there was anything that we
are, as we're thinking about this.
You know, in that context that youthink, you know, we should be doing?
(14:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um, look, I think, um, there is a kindof three part strategy that we followed.
Mm-hmm.
That.
I think can be and is being replicated.
Just to be clear, I think it's, Ithink a lot of folks really believe in
this, but, but to me, I think we did avery Guinn job of doing three things.
Number one, we worked very hardto shore up our incumbents in the
(14:30):
off year, and that looks like alot of things that can look like
shoring up their field operation.
Making sure that money is coming in thedoor and they are well-funded operations,
making sure they're staffed properly, andthose are all things you can do before
voters are ever paying attention, right?
You can do those things in January,february, March, April of the off year
before you get into the election year,and that is such a critical piece of it.
(14:53):
Um, there are, I mentioned, youknow, Adam Gray in the Central
Valley before who won by 187 votes.
He's doing a tremendous jobright now inside of his campaign,
but it'll always be tough.
So there will just be some of thoseseats that'll always be tough.
So you have to make sure they have allthe tools they need to take care of.
That of what they can and that the,there is budget to take care of them as
(15:13):
like the institutions as the party hasthe budget to take care of those folks.
So I think that's step one.
Um, step two is the core battlefields,and those are kind of the, um, pickup
opportunities across the country.
There is a handful of seats whereRepublicans are sitting right now
in districts that Joe Biden won.
There's um, also seats that, um,republicans are sitting in that Trump
(15:35):
won by the narrowest of margins.
And so, um, you know, I think the DTripp put out a really comprehensive
list of about 35 of those coredistricts across the country that
are, um, that should be a real focus.
This is where it is the, you know,the party committee's job to go in,
recruit really strong candidates,help them build strong campaigns like.
(15:56):
It is all about fundamentals.
I know that's not the sexyfun, we're gonna test this new
fun technology, digital stuff.
But like campaigns are still campaigns.
They have to havefundamentals that are strong.
They have to have, we have to have strongcandidates, they have to be well-funded,
they have to have strong staffs thatcan help them stand up of strong
operation so they can see what's coming.
(16:17):
So part that's part two, right?
Is like.
How are we gonna flip the seats?
And, and then there's part three,which is expanding the battlefields.
And this is something that in the 2020cycle, I think we did really well.
I think across the board, frankly,everyone, Republicans, democrats,
everyone underestimated what Trump onthe ballot was gonna do to turn out.
(16:38):
And so when we expandedthe map into places like.
Arkansas and tough districtsin Texas, places like that.
What we were doing is we were forcingRepublicans to chase us with their money
and investment to go shore up membersthat were their incumbents, right?
Yeah.
Um, that we said, we, we seeyou and we're coming for you.
(17:01):
And what that does is it does two things.
One, if right, if, if there is awave and like the sales are up,
it is gonna help get so many moreDemocrats over the finish line.
So that's the first thing it does.
The other thing it does is it, it helpsprevent spending against otherwise,
um, kind of endangered incumbents.
Like by us going and putting braceson the map in Texas and in Arkansas,
(17:24):
we made sure folks didn't spendagainst Law Underwood in Illinois,
who has a tough district in Illinois.
And, and that was super helpfulto us being able to maintain
the majority of that cycle.
So those are the threesteps that I know are not.
Sexy, but they are critical to us doingto be able to hold onto the seats of
weapon and take to flip a few more.
(17:46):
I have found in all the years I'vebeen doing this that the least sexy
things are what Win races totally.
Totally.
I mean, if you're like in the NFL, I'mthe worst person to make a sports analogy.
Like it's silly that I'm doing this, butlike, no, I'm, I'm probably the worst.
But I'll let you do it and then wecan just like, make it seem like ugh.
No, I mean you're stilldoing, doing sprints.
You have to go to the weight room.
(18:08):
Yeah, you have to eat well.
Like you have to like, you know, youhave to eat your vegetables in order to
like go do the fun things you wanna do.
And that means building strong campaigns.
Yeah, no, for sure.
It is always the infrastructureand the boring stuff.
Um, and I, I've told peoplea million times, especially
in digital, like everybody isalways chasing the shiny object.
(18:28):
And I'm like, look, at the end ofthe day when it comes to digital,
it is never the shiny object.
You know, back in the day it waslike the viral video and I'm like,
listen, it is never the viralvideo that is doing it in digital.
It is like that we are targetinga universe and following
these like micro-target.
I mean, it's like the nerdy stuff, right?
The stuff that you didn't wanna payattention to in school, in digital,
(18:49):
that is actually making the difference.
It is not the viral video, but Iget it because it's much more fun.
Um, and it's much more shiny and weall love the shiny object, but it's
my, my favorite client question ishow do I make this video go viral?
Yes.
If you don't, and that is the answer,my friends, that is the secret sauce.
(19:10):
And that is not the recipe forsuccess that we answer, not having.
We can, we can tell you guys that part.
We, that's our big tip for the day.
Um, I will say though, um, one of thequestions that I love to ask, because.
As Lucinda said, she is now runsa very successful, works as a
partner in a very successful adagency, uh, democratic ad agency.
(19:33):
And so I really love to talk topeople about the trans ad from
the presidential campaign becauseit's all anyone can talk about.
So it's kind of like the, that reallywas a viral, that was a viral video.
There you go.
Um, but I know that I went to thatpostmortem after the fact and the Trump
campaign was like, that is why we won.
And they love to say that.
(19:54):
Um, and what they do love to say,I think is really that they went
to unlikely voters and they sortof targeted them with messages that
they thought would bombard them.
And they also did it on mediumswhere they felt like we couldn't
necessarily respond as easily.
And so I think that the trans, um.
Video was something too thatlike, it, it, it hit home in,
(20:16):
in a couple of different ways.
And, and so I'm just curious, um, whatyou thought the impact was and, and sort
of your take on it, especially as one.
Yeah, yeah.
Look, I think as Democrats, I thinkone of our parties flaws is that we
have this bad habit of kind of shyingaway from tough topics like tough.
Topics come up and we kind of look atour shoes 'cause we're not really sure.
(20:38):
We don't wanna push pissoff people on the left.
And you don't wanna bring theI of the right, like Yeah.
It, it is pretty, um, it, it is a, aspace where I think, look, I think our
members and our candidates all want tobe on the right side of history here.
Like I worked at the L-G-B-T-Q VictoryFund, I was their political director.
Um.
Trans rights, gay and lesbianrights have been under attack for
(21:02):
decades, and they're not stopping.
They're not stopping anytime soon.
Republicans have found this transissue that has some salience with
some swing voters, and it's sogross that they are doing this.
I I. But I do believe that at our core.
Most Democrats want to be on the rightside of history here and will do what's
(21:22):
right, but somehow by running that adbragging about that ad, they have twisted
it to seem like, make it seem likeDemocrats are spending all of our time.
Worried about trans people andpassing bills for trans people.
Like they, they, they've managedto somehow pin on us that this
(21:42):
is how we're spending our time.
When in fact they are the people who ranthe trans ad. That they are the people
bringing it up in state legislatures overand over and, and most Republican state
legislatures in the country, it came upinside of this 2025 legislative session.
They are taking their eye off the ball.
They are distracting us with.
(22:04):
Like this, this like social issue asthey call, like we're, we're the party
of social issues, but somehow they'respending all their time doing it.
I mean, we were, are,we're so proud as a caucus.
We elected Sarah McBride.
She's the first trans member of the House,democratic Caucus of of Congress, period.
And.
In November before all of the memberswere sworn in, you saw Republican,
(22:26):
Nancy Mace, you know, passing RESOor trying to put up resolutions to
like prevent her from using the rightbathrooms and how like it's crazy.
What are we doing?
You just ran a whole campaignsaying we're not paying attention.
You're taking your IF football.
How about.
As a legislative body,we protect healthcare.
(22:47):
How about we protect, um, people'sability to buy their groceries?
How about we actually do address thecost issues that are going on right
now, and instead, you know, they'respending their time running these
ads, putting up these crazy bills,and meanwhile, you know, cutting taxes
for billionaires like Elon Musk onthe backs of middle class families.
So I, I just think it's somethingthat we need to be a little more
(23:10):
forceful about calling them out on.
Yeah.
And it, it's so heartbreaking.
I actually, when I was at the VictoryFund, um, I heard Sarah McBride tell
this story about how, I don't know ifyou heard this, but like she was talking
about how they chased, um, a woman intothe bathroom who they thought was her.
And they were like, attacking this womanwho was not her, was not Sarah McBride.
(23:33):
And they're like, getout, get out, get out.
And she's like.
It was a woman.
It was a woman who just happenedto have shoulder length brown hair.
And she's like, so now we're atthe point where we're just like,
you don't look woman enough.
And the, you know, you don'tlook woman enough, you don't,
you're like, I mean, right.
You don't look like us, you don't actlike us, like you don't walk like us.
(23:54):
So she's like, where does this end?
Um, where does this end?
You don't look the woman enough.
That's now what we're paying attentionto, instead of like the cost of groceries,
which was supposed to go down, right.
Instead, eggs are likethe cost of a small car.
Um, you know, it's like right,like people couldn't die eggs at
(24:17):
Easter because they were literally.
Like, you wouldn't wannawaste that, you know?
Um, giant and potatoes, right?
That's right.
That's right.
Um, but it's like insanity.
And yet the, we're chasing thisperson into the bathroom 'cause
you don't look woman enough.
Like what?
It's horrible.
It just, it was so insane and hypocriticaland awful to me and so heartbreaking.
(24:40):
But when she told this story,it's like, again, you're just.
We're back to this heartbreak,which is the only word I can think
of every time because I think Doge.
Is like, there's nothingmore heartbreaking than
the ironic ness of this.
This is efficiency.
And these people, they'rebeing double paying and there
there's no cancer research.
(25:01):
I mean, it's like every single time I'mlike, I cannot, I a hundred percent.
Um, just so, so awful.
Um, the, the reason I sort of wantedto talk a little bit more, dig a
little more into this about ads isbecause I, you know, I do digital.
You do ad traditional ads andwe work together and we do
this in so many different ways.
'cause I think how we get themessage out, so much of what we've
(25:24):
been talking about too is likemisinformation and we get at this, right?
Like I think what you were sayingtoo is that we didn't respond, right?
Like, because we let that message sitthere a little bit because it wasn't
getting back and then the media isn'tresponding in the same traditional sense.
So like, yeah.
I, I, I think that means we need tobe listening and like, so we think
(25:48):
traditionally we gotta respond on socialmedia as well, and we gotta have digital.
But I think it also does leave room,and I'm sure you know, this is from you.
I'm, I'm sure that means that that'sreally still an opportunity, uh, that the
ads are just as important, but we need tomake response ads and like be there with
those, um, you know, and, and, and havethose out there and be really direct.
(26:11):
Um, I think those are types ofads you guys make and that you do.
Yeah, yeah.
That, those are the kindsof things that happen.
Um, yeah, absolutely.
I think, look, I, I thinkour media environment is so
splintered, so you see, you know.
I mean, I know when I scroll through mysocial media, it is so tailored to me.
Yeah.
(26:31):
And it really does emphasize thiskind of bubble we all live in.
And it, it makes it hard to imaginewhat other people's bubbles are saying.
Right.
And so it, it is, it does put the onus on.
Taryn and I as ad makers andbuyers to make sure we're getting
eyeballs on our content, which,you know, is oftentimes rebuttals.
(26:55):
Oftentimes it's just our story, oftentimesit's attacks on and, and trying to inform
people about the records of our opponents.
Um, and, and so that, that issomething that is a lot harder now
than it was 20 years ago, and that's.
Not hard to imagine.
We all, you know, we sit on ourphones in front of our TVs and we
scroll and we watch TV differentlywith different streaming services
(27:18):
and there are cord cutters now,so it does make it harder, right?
Yeah.
But it, it is really important, um, thatwe, I think, respond and make sure we're,
we're responding in the right spaces.
So I, I know there is this,like TV's dying that 50% of
people still have traditional.
TV and cable, 50% of people inthis, in this country, right?
So we cannot just cut this off.
(27:41):
We cannot just say like, okay,we're just not gonna talk to them.
And you have half of people whoare so-called co cord cutters.
That's what we would call someone thatcancels their cable and maybe has.
Um, only streaming services, butthat can also make up kind of,
um, YouTube tv, sling Hulu tv.
And that's the Venn diagrambetween Terrance and my work.
(28:03):
Right?
Like there is a giant Venn diagramof folks who are cord cutters who
need to be delivered streamingservices, ads on streaming services,
and they need to be, see the contentthat we're putting out there.
And they need to see the contentthat we're putting out on
traditional linear television.
Right.
So I, I think it's not outta the realmof possibility in a household for someone
(28:24):
to get up and watch the Today Show inthe morning and then click on Hulu and
you know, try to watch, watch programsthat have ad interruptions inside.
So it's important that we are, youknow, making sure that we're creating
really Guinn and impactful contentand delivering it to the right people.
Yeah, and I think the data.
Actually is imperfect.
(28:45):
And so it's not just importantto your point that it's getting
there, but it's also that it'sgetting to the right person.
Because the truth is that'sa television that's shared.
And so there's different peoplein that household who might be
watching and we should make surethat that person gets that message.
'cause sometimes we microtarget and you know what?
Guinn old fashioned, you know, TVcommercials that used to come on when
(29:08):
a family was watching can influencesometimes, and we can get that message
out and it can influence someone.
Sometimes they need to be persuaded.
We don't need to justhave this curated message.
Sometimes we can persuade someone.
Who we might not think we could have.
So I love the idea that like Guinnold fashioned commercials can persuade
someone we might not think we can.
(29:29):
Um, so we shouldn't just assume, youknow, we shouldn't just assume that we can
only turn the mind of some person like.
Um, I just think that sometimes,you know, Barack Obama appealed
to a lot of people who we didn'tthink he was gonna appeal to.
So I sometimes love the idea thatthere is hope that we can persuade
other people's minds, um, especiallybecause geography has become this,
(29:53):
like, settled in our minds, that there'sa divide between this part of the
country and this part of the country.
And I don't think thatthat's necessarily true.
Um, you know, I just, Ithink where I grew up.
In Virginia.
You know, some people just madeassumptions about that, but I was more
Northern Virginia than Southern andeven that part in this, and I just
(30:14):
don't think it has to be that way.
And I, I'm just curious, I know a littlebit about your background, but tell me a
little bit about growing up and how youthink that influenced you and maybe why
that drove you into politics or didn't.
I'm kind of, kind ofcurious about that with you.
Yeah, so I, I grew up in El Paso, Texas.
Um, it is the very TippetyWest Point of Texas.
(30:34):
Um, and it is a giant metro.
Very Guinn food thereif no one's been there.
Sorry, say that again.
I said very Guinn food there.
If, if you haven't been there, hit me up.
I'll send you all the rack.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, so it's a border community, andso El Paso has about 700,000 people
in it, and it's a shared bordercommunity with Juarez, Mexico.
Mexico, and there are over a millionpeople in that kind of metro area.
(30:58):
Um, so my parents were teachers.
I didn't, um, grow up in a particularlypolitical household by any means.
Um, but, uh, George W. Bush was ourgovernor when I was growing up, and.
He was road testing.
No child left behind in Texas schools.
And so I certainly, obviously kindof knew what that meant as a student.
Not really.
(31:18):
I mean, if we're beinghonest, no, I, I didn't, yeah.
I was a kid who like cared about,you know, going to band on time
and like getting like fresh.
Um, but like, um, but you know, Icould, I could feel the pressures
of it from my parents and theconversations my parents had.
So I think that's one piece that reallyinfluenced me and helped me get involved.
And, you know, the other thingI would say, you know, we
were talking earlier about.
(31:38):
Democrats kind of looking at theirshoes and not tackling tough issues.
I grew up in a border community andum, folks who follow me on social media
know that a lot of my charitable givingI give to the rescue mission of El
Paso and I give to Annunciation house.
It is a community where it is an entrypoint for a lot of migrants who are coming
to America to look for a better life.
And those two organizations service,um, migrants who are in need of
(32:02):
shelter, food, housing, and what Iknow, you know, there's all this like.
Ugly Republican rhetoric oflike, oh, the border, the crisis.
It's a war zone.
And I've literally met peoplewho are like, oh my God, you
must have grown up in a war zone.
It is a crazy thing to say, like, my,my El Paso is a giving loving El Paso,
and when somebody reaches out theirhand, we reach down and we pull 'em up.
(32:24):
And so, um, you know, I thinkyou can be a democrat who.
Believes in a full pathway to citizenshipand believes in a secure border.
And you can say that with a straight face.
And those are not at the ideasthat we're at odds with each other.
And so I, I think that definitelyhas shaped me and helped me, um, talk
to my candidates about immigrationand that the, you know, it's gonna
(32:46):
come up in every congressional racein the country this year, so you
have to be ready to talk about it.
Um, and I think that certainlyhelped me over the years.
Absolutely.
Um, that's wonderful and I got goosebumpswhen you said it because it's so true.
I love that.
Um, I think that one of the otherthings that I would be remiss if we
didn't chat a little bit about, becauseI know, um, you certainly felt it.
(33:10):
I know that I, um, Ifelt it over the years.
I just, being a woman in, in politics,um, and being a political operative,
it's been, it's, it's certainly hard.
I'm, I'm sure, um.
Donna, Brazil and some of the folksbefore us whose shoulders we've
stood on, uh, would fa say it too.
Um, but it's, it's certainly, um,a challenge for a lot of reasons.
(33:32):
I always say being in tech and digitalalso is like always a little bit extra.
I bet.
A little extra there too.
Um, but I'm just, you know, any.
Any advice you might have ifsomebody was thinking about it now?
Um, going into it or anybodywho's going through it?
'cause I think we're stillall going through it.
Um, that you might have for somebody.
(33:52):
Yeah, we are.
And I'm sure you've had this experience,Taryn, I feel like certainly my
own imposter syndrome has mm-hmm.
Reared its ugly head throughout my career.
And I think that the top questionI get from young women coming up
in this business is like, how do Iget through this imposter syndrome?
How do I do this?
Um, I'm actually one of the coachesfor the Blue Leadership Collaborative,
(34:13):
which is this awesome organization, um,run by the Zinc Collective that, um.
Helps make sure that we'rediversifying our manager core.
And so, you know, when I started managing,there were very few women doing that work
and, and Blue Leadership Collaborativeis helping women, um, L-G-B-T-Q, um,
(34:34):
people come up and manage Black Brown.
A API like.
It is a wonderful, wonderful organizationthat's helping, um, really diversify
the folks who are our future leadersand, and it is critical to our work.
Um, so, you know, I think the mainquestion I get from folks, especially
inside that program, is like, how doI get through this imposter syndrome?
And, and I wish there was likean easy answer to that, but my,
(34:55):
my, the best answer I've comeacross was from Shonda Rhimes.
Love her.
Take me to Shondaland any day.
Um, a few years ago she wrotea book called The Year of Yes.
Um, for those of you that have read it,and she has this section about imposter
syndrome, where she says the way youget through it is that you earn it.
Hmm.
And there is nothing more true.
You have to stand up and you have topractice and you have to try and you
(35:20):
have to learn your craft so that youcan be sitting at the head of the
table running the meeting and sometimesyou're gonna fall down in the meeting
and scratch your knee and that's okay.
That's okay.
You get back up and thenyou're stronger next time.
And, and I just, thatreally resonated with me.
'cause I feel like it hasbeen my experience that.
No one, certainly no one was gonna handyou or I anything, or any, you know,
(35:41):
responsibility that we didn't fight for.
And so, you know, you reallygotta, you gotta earn it.
You gotta make your way there.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
I have told everyone, shamelessself-promotion is not a bad thing
and you need to be Guinn at it.
Right.
Um, and I, I will say, God blessBrian Wolf, but he told me a long
time ago that I was really Guinnat doing my job and I needed to put
(36:01):
my head up and I was like, what?
He is like, you keep yourhead down all the time.
You need to get your head upand like start talking about it.
And, uh, I remember I likethought, oh, I know what you mean.
Like, I just was likereally busy doing the job.
Yeah.
And if you're really busy doingthe job, you're not talking
about how you're doing the job.
That's right.
You need to, that's right.
You need need to tell peoplethat you're doing the job.
(36:23):
Yeah.
So people need to know that.
Um, and that's the shamelessself permission, especially if
you're gonna run a business.
You have to be able to tell folksthat you're, you're doing a great job.
Yeah.
That's kind of the battle, and that'swhy candidates and elected officials
are really Guinn at that, and that ispart of winning races, which we were
talking about the off year, right?
Like they have to talk abouttheir accomplishments and they
forget that sometimes too.
(36:44):
I feel like that's been so muchof what we've, I've been talking
about with my electeds right now.
I'm like, you have totell them what you did.
It's great that you're doing the workright now, but you actually have to tell
them all the great things you're doing.
Um.
You gotta, you gotta tell them about allthe things you're doing, you do right now.
Everybody's angry, nobody's gonnaknow, otherwise you don't get,
yeah, just because you got an Ain class doesn't make you, you
(37:06):
don't get credit for that actually.
Yeah.
You gotta an, you gotta put a bumpersticker on the back of your car that
you have a kid on the honor roll.
Like you gotta do it.
Yeah.
Um, all right.
So my last and final thing to you, I wannaknow what your prediction is for 2026.
I I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you, I'mgonna put you on the line, just one.
You don't have to have, like,we're gonna win the house, Taryn.
(37:28):
We're gonna win the houseand I think we're win some
awesome gubernatorial seats.
Um, uh, most of the gubernatorialmap is up this cycle, which
we haven't talked about.
There's a lot of guber.
But, but I feel, I feeloptimistic about that.
I think, um, you know, we sawtwo special elections happen
in super red seats in Florida.
We just saw a WisconsinSupreme Court race.
(37:50):
Right.
Um, in that we won that SupremeCourt race, um, by a significant
margin, and, and our candidate wonin really tough places in Wisconsin.
Well, listen, we were nevergonna win those Florida seats.
They are r plus 30 seats, butpick it up 15 points is, I know.
Huge.
And so if we can do that in seats thatare down, 10 seats that are down five,
(38:11):
we're gonna be incredibly successful.
And that gives me hope.
'cause we have to put a check onthis president and the house is
our best way to put a check on him.
A hundred percent.
I love it.
I love it.
I like this prediction.
And I actually, I agree with youand my big thing was that they.
Had these town halls and peoplewere like throwing at them.
Wow.
And I likened it to like 2010.
(38:33):
Like, because Yes, the downfallfor us on the other side, right.
Town hall, the tea partyor like the protest.
The bad.
Yes.
And I was like, and everyone'slike, oh, but the Democrats,
they don't have a message.
And they're like, neither did theRepublicans and we lost a lot of seats.
Right.
So let's, let's see it the reverse.
Yeah, exactly.
We're doing what's your,what's your prediction, Taryn?
Give it to me.
(38:53):
Um, I think we're gonna win the house.
I agree with you there.
And I actually think that we coulddo very well, like across the board.
Like we could really, we couldreally, really do well because my
hope is that they are overconfidentand I want them to keep being
overconfident and just let's under theradar they think that we're a mask.
Let them wear a mask.
(39:14):
That's fine.
I was like, in fact, guys don't beunified because it turns out when
2024 and we were all unified andlike, we're gonna pull this together.
They didn't like that.
So just like let them thinkwe're a mask and under the radar
we're just gonna slide on by.
We better.
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
I can't wait.
(39:35):
All right.
Well thank you so much for joining meand like I said, next time we'll do
this with wine or you know something.
Coffee?
Yes, please.
Some kind of, yeah.
Cocktail something very mature.
Thank you.
That's wonderful.
Thank you so much for having me, Karen.
This was fun.
Thanks for listeningto Political Trail Mix.
Make sure to follow and review whereveryou get your podcast and stay connected
with me on Instagram and YouTube.
Let's keep this conversation going.
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