September 22, 2025 • 38 mins
On this episode of Political TrailMix we have Kelly Burton. Kelly is the Founder & CEO of Both/And Leadership, helping social impact leaders build resilience and thrive over time. A veteran of top political roles — including leading the National Democratic Redistricting Committee with Eric Holder — she’s spent her career at the intersection of leadership, strategy, and purpose.
Website: https://bothandleadership.org/
After Action 2024: https://afteraction2024.com
Socials: @kellycward
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
I am Taryn Rosenkranz, and this isPolitical Trail Mix where strategy
meets storytelling, and everyepisode unpacks the people power
and politics shaping our country.
Let's dig in.
I am Taryn Rosenkranz, and I'm so excitedto have Kelly Burton here with me today.
Kelly and I used to work together atthe d ccc, which is the Democratic,
uh, congressional Campaign Committeeand the house, uh, campaign arm to
(00:25):
help elect more Democrats to takeover the majority for the house.
And I'm so excited to have aconversation with her as I've been
having conversations with democraticoperatives across the country.
Now, next time, I promisewe're gonna do this.
In person with wine or coffee or candy.
I don't know.
Something that is a little morefun than us sitting in our offices.
(00:47):
But because these conversationsare important and you are now
living across the country, Ithought that maybe we needed to
make them happen a little sooner.
And so I want you to tell us alittle bit about yourself quickly,
and then let's dig into this.
Sure.
Well, thank you for having me.
I'm so excited
you're
doing
this.
Um, and it's just so great
to see you and bereconnected with you and,
(01:10):
um,
I have just been a huge fan of yourssince the first day I met you and,
um, loved working with you and I'm
so happy you're doing this.
So thanks for bringing me along.
I'm excited
to,
to
talk today.
Um, so as
Uhn, when I at the.
(01:30):
I started there in 2010.
Um, and prior to that I hadworked on several campaigns.
I managed house campaigns,I managed a senate campaign.
Um, I had run a big nationaladvocacy campaign on the C3 side.
I ran a C four.
So I had done a combination of, um,political advocacy, campaign management.
(01:52):
Um, I started in field actually,and, you know, love, love, um, my
kind of origins as a field organizer.
Um, and then worked at the DCC andactually stayed there seven years.
Um, even at some point hung on.
Yes, we hung on, we we're the lifers.
I now consider myself like.
A macro fan of the DCC like alumni fan.
(02:14):
I love that building so much.
Um, but then after I left the, I wasthe, uh, a field, a regional, political
regional, and then the politicaldirector, and then I stayed on as the
executive director for two cycles.
Um, learned a ton.
Loved that job.
We can dig into, uh, everythingthat we both learned there.
Um.
I moved over and helped start the NationalDemocratic Redistricting Committee.
(02:37):
'cause after having worked at theD ccc, um, to really try very hard
to win races on gerrymandered maps,um, I and many others in the party
realized that what we really neededwas a home base for redistricting
to help fix the maps, um, and theirway, make the elections more fair.
It has been a tough year.
Uh, it was a tough election, butthen even 2025 with everything
(02:58):
that Trump did, it was just.
Getting worse and worse and worse.
And I know we were all feeling the stress.
I know you and I are political operatives.
I know you're married to one.
I know all of our friendsare political operatives.
Um, it it's just a lot.
And I, you know, appreciate what you did.
I'm wondering how you came up with it.
Um, what it is.
I want you to tell me everything about it.
(03:19):
I think we all wanna know all aboutit, um, and how it can help us.
Yes.
Excellent.
Thank you.
Um, well, just to start, so ourpost-election program was called
After Action 2024, and that was avery intentionally named, um, program,
uh, which I'll explain in a second.
But basically, as you said, campaignsare incredibly stressful, right?
(03:41):
It's just such a, a high stress, highimpact, high intense, intense experience.
For America, America, but particularlyfor the people who dedicate
their entire lives to a campaign.
It's, you know, the campaign workers onthe ground, the people at the committees,
the people who are doing, you know,ballot initiatives or, um, advocacy
(04:04):
campaigns and long-term movement building.
And, you know, even the Uber volunteerswho give up everything to go travel or to,
you know, to spend the last few months ona race, like you throw your life into it.
It's intense and you are, youknow, in this high purpose, really
exciting, stressful experiencethat is driven by this deadline.
(04:27):
And then it ends, andthen election day comes.
And you know, you and I,we've both been on campaigns.
You experienced this whereyou're like looking around like.
What do we do now, guys?
It can feel like falling offa cliff where you just don't
know what to do with yourself.
And, um, oftentimes people get sick.
There's a crash that can come afterthe election because you've just been
(04:48):
in this high intensity experience andyou really do need an intentional.
Come down from that experience.
And in the political world, we don'toften provide that for our campaign folks.
Um, we do a ton of debriefingthe strategy, right?
So we debrief what worked, what didn't.
(05:08):
You know, the strategy, thetactics, what we learned.
We assess the data, we dig in oneverything we can possibly know
about the work we did, but not on.
How we experienced the work and whatit was like for us each individually
and personally and collectively, wejust, we don't necessarily create
the same level of support to debriefthat, and that's incredibly important.
(05:30):
It's important because we're all humans.
It's important because.
We, we did learn a lot and wewant people to stay in this work.
You know, the political spaceis a professional sector.
These are jobs you can havefor your entire career.
This is a really, really important sector.
I call it the beating heartof democracy campaign.
Operatives are the beatingheart of democracy.
(05:52):
We are what keeps it pumping.
We are what keeps it working.
We are the link between the,the folks who are making really
important decisions in these.
Positions and the voters who choosethem, and that is incredibly important.
As a sector and, and we don't oftentreat it as such and in these other high
(06:12):
stress sectors like the healthcare sectoror the military or education or you
know, just these, these, these servicesectors where we're doing a lot to serve
and it's very intense and stressful.
There is now a lot of intentionalwork happening to bring the
research-based practices.
Um, that we know about how to handleburnout, how to handle stress, how
to, you know, leverage your breathing,how to reset your nervous system.
(06:36):
You know, there's so much science nowand we don't necessarily bring it to
our people in the same way that othersectors are, um, are being serviced.
So that's what we wanted to do withafter action, and we called it after
action because as you may remember, yeah.
The,
you were gonna tell people Yes.
Little known secret here did little
known secret that when we didall those post-election debriefs,
(06:56):
we called them after actions.
So you did a million after action reportsabout every district, about, you know,
all the different pieces of our work.
So we intentionally calledthis program after action 2024.
Um, but the asset that wewere debriefing was ourself.
And really creating space and astructured program that's based in
research, um, to give people somesupport for that post-election period.
(07:17):
That's very stressful andsometimes very confusing.
Yeah, absolutely.
I, I can't tell you how gratefulI am that you're doing this work.
I mean, I remember 2010, I, I was workingat the d ccc, it was quite a devastating
year for those who don't remember.
We lost indeed, we lost seats that year.
It wasn't, it wasn't exactly 63.
Yeah.
(07:39):
Um, and, and I also, you know,I, I was very, very pregnant at
the time and, and I will say.
Like, we went back to work like thenext day, you know, and it's like we
went back to work and we were like,oh, we're gonna save this one seat.
Like, not processing, likewhat had happened about the
other like 60 plus at the time?
Yeah.
Because we were so focused onlike, just getting it done.
(08:01):
And I, and I'm so gladthat somebody like, was.
Hey, we've really got to do thishaving been there before, because
otherwise you spend decades likejust keep going back to work.
Yeah.
Just keep going back to work.
Yes.
Um, and I know like with COVID andeverything else, like so much has changed.
Um, that we really do need to makesure we're taking care of our people.
(08:23):
So I love that you're doing this.
I love so much.
I love it.
Um, and I think, you know,what are the things that we
can do personally differently?
Like what are some of the things?
Yeah, like what I, I took this soI'm cheating a little bit, so I sat
through some of this, but if you aresomeone who is listening to this,
like what can they do differently?
What can we do?
Like what has changed and, andwhat do we need to do differently?
(08:45):
Absolutely.
Great question.
Um, well, I do think that over the yearssince you and I were, you know, at the
committee and, and running campaigns and,and, and you were basically designing
how Democrats should do digital, um,which for those of you who don't know,
Tarn is like the matriarch of digital.
Um, communications for Democrats.
She figured it out andshe led us through it.
(09:07):
And I will also say she mentionedthat she was very pregnant.
Taryn was also on the very cuttingedge of women who figured out how
to have these huge, big jobs andalso have a family and have babies.
And Taryn, I don't know if youremember this, but when I got
pregnant at the DCC, you were the.
First person I talked to, I waslike, Darren, how did you do it?
(09:27):
How do we do this?
How do you work here and have a baby?
This is fun.
We're all trying
to still figure that
out, but yes, yes, indeed.
But I do, I think you really, you charteda path for us, for the rest of us, and we
followed you in those footsteps becauseyou did figure out how to make this work
to both, you know, serve at all of theselevels, both in politics and in our
(09:47):
families, and to just not have to choose.
Um, you really were a trailblazer.
Follow us.
So I commend you for that.
Love that.
I love that thing.
Shout out you.
Um, and I do think that you know, largelybecause of people like you and others
over the last, you know, however manydecades we've been doing this work,
there is more support in our field for.
(10:08):
Work life balance and for mentalhealth services and for things
like maternity and paternity leave.
Um, and, you know, just the, thedifferent ways that we can support people
through, um, the life of these jobs.
I do think we are better at that.
I think there's.
We have healthcare, you know, we havepaid internships, we have unions,
(10:28):
like we have rights for workers thatwe didn't have in this field before.
Like all of that is net positive.
There's also been a ton of progress,I think we've made on management, on
actually like teaching management on,you know, training people, um, to do, you
know, the management side of this work.
And, and so all of thatis really positive.
Um, and a and a good.
(10:49):
Directional, you know, uh, trajectorythat we are on, I am offering.
And what I think we all needto be thinking about is almost
like the next frontier of that.
When you look at the research,what the research says, and this is
happening in other fields, right?
Other fields, particularly like, um,professional sports is doing this a lot.
(11:11):
The military is doing this a lot.
When you look at the research of whatit takes to achieve high performance,
like that's our goal, right?
We wanna win, we wanna do these jobs.
Well, we want to optimize ourperformance as humans so that we
can have an impact on democracy.
That's why we're here.
That's why we do this work.
We're here to serve.
We're here to win.
We believe Democrats shouldbe in office so that we can do
great things for the country.
(11:31):
Um, and, and you know, we arethe beating heart of that.
I always say we are thebeating heart of democracy.
We are the link between the people who aremaking these big important decisions for
our country and the voters who elect them.
That is our job.
We are that link.
We are the blood that's pumping tokeep the system of democracy going.
And we wanna do that well.
(11:51):
So we need to optimize performance.
So when you look at other fields and whatthe research is saying, there's basically.
Three kind of like legs of a stool,if you think about it, to like the, to
balance and have optimal performance.
Um, I think we do one of the three verywell and the other two not so well.
So the three buckets are, one is your,like professional training, right?
(12:13):
You just gotta know how to do your job.
We crush that.
We train people.
We, you know, we, we teachpeople how to do these jobs.
Um, there's a million trainings.
It's very good.
Um, and just that day-to-day experiencethat you get on campaigns we is.
Awesome.
So we do the professionaldevelopment piece very well.
The second kind of leg of thestool is your personal health.
So are you healthy?
(12:34):
Are you, you know, eating right?
Are you sleeping?
Are you just taking care of your health?
We all know those things.
I don't know that we necessarily alldo them, but we know we should, right?
There's a lot of informationabout how to maintain your
health, but the other third piece.
I think in our field we are missing,but other fields are really capitalizing
on is what I call inner focus.
(12:55):
It is like what are you doing toregulate your body and to maintain
your nervous system in a healthy wayso you're making good decisions and
you're not in fight or flight, you areactually act, you know, making decisions
and your rational thinking brain.
That takes practice in thesame way that you prac, you get
stronger by going to the gym.
You build your inner focus, you buildyour inner resilience through practice.
(13:18):
And that is a new frontier ofsupport that I think we need to
provide to campaign operatives.
Um, and so I think that's part ofwhat we were doing with after action.
I think that's part of what weneed to be doing more and more of.
In addition to the, the growth anddevelopment that we've made on mental
health services, on, you know, thedifferent ways to kind of support the work
(13:39):
experience of people in this field, whichis great, I think we also can do more to
support that inner experience and trainingand practice that people need to actually
achieve resilience and make it through anentire cycle in these high stress jobs.
Well because that getting out of fight orflight is how you move past this grief.
(14:00):
Um, and in a November election, likeit's how you move past the grief of
any election, to be quite honest.
Yes.
But otherwise you spend decades,which I may say myself, I
might be a little guilty about.
You spend decades of being in crisis mode.
Right.
It's like one thing after another.
Yes.
And you stay at the D CCC forseven years and then you may go
start your own business for 15.
(14:20):
Right.
And just like wake up one day and belike, wow, I've been in crisis mode
for like, you know, over 20 years.
Of it's just one campaign to the next.
Yes.
Right?
Yes.
Starts to all blur together
a hundred percent.
And the impact that that ishaving on your body is real.
Right.
Oh, the impact
that you are
putting,
I feel it.
I feel like a hundred right now.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
(14:40):
And the number of people, Taryn, that Ihave talked to since I have, you know,
moved into this really intentionalfield of, of learning about this and
getting, you know, certified and allof the things and becoming a coach and
really trying to work with folks on this.
Is the number of people who'vegotten sick on campaigns secretly?
Oh my gosh.
The number of people who crash, thenumber of people I have talked to.
(15:01):
Multiple people who secretly went to thehospital either on the campaign or after.
Oh, right here, September, 2024.
Hospitalized with sepsis.
With sepsis.
That's like a like.
Right.
Yeah.
Why are we doing that to ourselves?
And we don't need to.
That's the thing, like there are practicesthat you can incorporate into your life
that it doesn't solve everything, andwe're not gonna make these jobs less
(15:23):
stressful, but you can help it notsend you to the hospital, you know?
Right.
Yes.
It doesn't have to be that way,and, and truthfully, it's this
idea, which I think is really,really important and I love that.
Of the three sort of pillars orthe three-legged stool is how, I
think you said it, three-leggedstool pillars is better.
Yeah, that's okay either way.
(15:44):
But it's, it's the idea,well the three-legged stool
supports what you supports you.
It's holding you.
Exactly.
It gets holding you.
Exactly.
And that to me is such a change.
Right.
But you know, going back for a second,and not just because you complimented
me, but going two, but saying like.
Leading the way and the sort of,you know, of women and being there.
(16:05):
I do think part of this though iswe needed to model that behavior.
Yeah.
So I, what I love is that thisprogram is here, so we are not
just teaching ourselves, but we'remodeling that behavior for the future.
Because part of why I like tried to helpothers was because I, there was only like.
One mom there at the d Tripp at the time,like Jackie Forte McKay, who was I like,
(16:26):
shared an office with, there was like onemom there and she didn't have little kids.
She had a little bit older kids,but there wasn't any, there was
single people like and young people.
And I was like, okay, well she'shere and she has two kids, like.
It's like, you know, somehow it works.
It's like, maybe I can have one kid,but like, will I make it with two?
And the second kid was like, allright, now I have a second kid.
(16:47):
Can I do this with two?
And then I'm like, wellJackie, there she has two.
You know, it's like, but I wanted to beable to tell people like, you can do it.
Here's how I did it.
And so if we pass this on and wemodeled that for others, it does help.
And it was like immediatelylike, oh, here's what I did
and here's how I can do it.
And here's a tip and here's a trick.
Um, and if this is like a program, andthis is a way we can do this to get out
(17:12):
of fight or flight, isn't that wonderful?
So yes.
Love
that.
Love
that.
And I'll also, just going back tosomething you said earlier about how
stressful it can be in these jobs,especially when you do them over and over
again without taking a beat and without,you know, reflecting or without pausing.
That is even worse nowwith Donald Trump, right?
(17:32):
Because that's his jam.
Like this is what he wants to do.
He wants to create stress, he wantsto distract, he wants to, you know,
have everybody that in reactive mode.
Um, 'cause like you said, thenit's a distraction and then he can
sort of get away with the thingshe is, is really doing to, you
know, consolidate power, et cetera.
So I also think that strategicallythis becomes really important.
(17:57):
Right now, because all of us, Democrats,republicans, you know, just the American
people, we have to, as I tell my daughter,like, you know, keep our heads, we have
to keep our heads, we have to be ableto control our own reactions so that
we are responding and not reacting.
And, and that's what these practices do.
(18:17):
So if you go to after action 2020four.com, um, you actually can access
everything we did for the program.
It, you know, it was.
Five week program.
It ended in mid-December.
But all of the videos, all of thepractices, all of the journal prompts,
um, all the Zoom sessions that we did,it's all still online and folks can go on
there and, you know, if you need to findbalance, there's this awesome, um, uh,
(18:40):
kind of thread about how to find balance.
In life done by one ofour par partners, Mente.
Um, in the program, there'sreally great breathing techniques.
There's an awesome presentation from EmilyParcell about how to identify burnout.
You know, there's just these toolsthat you can access, and at the end of
the day, what they do is they help us.
Regulate our nervous system sothat we can respond and not react,
(19:02):
and that is gonna make us smarter.
It's gonna make us better, it's gonnahelp us make better strategic decisions,
and it's gonna keep us in this work sothat we are actually resilient and we can
push through and continue the fight andcontinue to show up every day, even in
the face of this relentless triggeringthat we are experiencing all the time.
(19:22):
Yes, yes.
Yes.
I love that.
And I think it's so important.
And that was, um, that we are doingthe things like making the time for
the things, making the time to havethe beat, making the time to, for like,
to really reflect to your point, um,and making sure that we're going back.
And like what's great is, is that there'sno, there's no time limit on this.
(19:43):
Yeah.
Like you can go back, um, andlook at these things now because
they still are important andit's still important to do it.
And there's no timeline on grief.
I tell people that all the time, like.
You might still be feeling itand you might still be doing it.
Um, one thing we say at our, at my companyall the time is I'm like, and that, not
that any of our clients would ever dothis, but don't get on your rollercoaster.
And really it goes to your employer,it goes to your employees, it goes to
(20:07):
your coworkers, it goes to your familymembers or siblings, whatever it is.
Um.
But don't get on the rollercoaster.
And I've like say that about Trumpall the time too, but don't get
on the rollercoaster, which iskeeping your head like so, so true.
Um, because if you don't get onthe rollercoaster, you can, yes.
You might miss out on a few highs, butit's really not worth the lows either.
(20:28):
But it's the long game.
You play the long game and then you canmake it and then you don't burn out.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
You're just, you're just gonna be ableto have a little bit more of that.
Um, I kind of wanna justget into a few other things.
Sure.
I wanna talk a little bit about, um,sort of, I think people are feeling
hopeless right now, so I, I wanna talka little positivity here and get your
(20:48):
political side of your brain for a second.
Yeah.
And just say, you know, we did havesome success, you know, last cycle.
So I've been kind of talkingto different folks and sort of
getting, you know, we are, we arepotentially close to a house maturity.
Um, and, and when you were.
DC, CC, there was some tough times,but also some victorious ones.
And so I'm wondering what you think,uh, might be some recipes for success
(21:11):
for them, or one thing that you thinkmight be, um, a good sign, a little,
little hopefulness here, or one thingthat might be able to make a difference.
So any advice that you might give tofolks that are working on these things
or anything that might be, uh, uh, thatyou would see as a, as a good sign there?
Yes.
Yes.
Um.
Thank you for asking.
Well, first shout out everyonewho's doing this work right now.
(21:33):
It's very hard, it's very stressful.
Um, there are incrediblydifficult decisions being made
every day, and there's really.
Heartbreaking implications of whatthis administration is doing every day.
And it is just so challenging tolive in it, um, and to be in it.
And, and for those of you and allof us who work in it every day,
(21:56):
I just wanna shout out, um, yourhearts and why we do this work.
Um, 'cause it is really, really important.
And the minute we give up andstop doing it is when it all ends.
Right.
Like it is, it is the exhaustingreality of democracy that you have
to do democracy to save democracy.
(22:18):
You have to continue to show up to dothe work in order to keep democracy real.
Right?
I kind of, I sometimes equate it tomoney, like money has value because
we all decide that it has value.
Right.
And we keep the economy goingso that it can retain its value.
But part of that is alsobelieving that it has value.
And the minute that, you know, westart to question it and it like the
(22:42):
fabric around trusting the money falls,we're all like, it doesn't have value.
Ah.
And then entire economy's collapse, right?
Democracy's not different than that.
It's very similar where democracyexists because we are doing democracy
and cannot fall into the trap.
Democracy is over, or that they areending democracy, which I believe me,
(23:05):
come from the school of thought thatthat is very real and very possible.
And in fact, for some of the people on theother side of the political equation here,
that is their goal a hundred percent.
And it is incumbentupon us to do democracy.
To save democracy, we have to keepshowing up because the minute we
don't, that's when it all falls apart.
And that's when people give up andthat's when the voters give up.
(23:27):
And then if they see all ofus give up, they give up.
Like just the, the, thecrumble will happen.
So we are, um, part of sandbaggingthe protection of democracy and
the way to do that is to justcontinue to do it and to show up.
So, um.
That's, that's more just a kindof a top line point, I suppose.
Um, the second piece of advice that Iwould give other than just like keep
(23:53):
showing up is to play the long game.
Because it's really important to remember,and it took me two decades of doing
this work to really internalize this,is that you don't ever win for good.
Right.
This fight doesn't end.
It's like Barack Obama used to say likethis is our part of the relay race.
(24:16):
Democracy's a relay race and socialjustice is a relay race and, and rights
for all in the way that we believeas progressives is a relay race.
And this is our part of it.
And our job is to grab the baton and likerun as far and as fast down the track
that we can get while we have the baton.
That's our jam.
(24:36):
That's what we do.
And then we hand it off and itis, it's an exhausting reality.
It reminds me of the science, like atthe women's March, like these old, old
women who were like, I can't believewe're still dealing with this shit.
You know?
It's like that.
It's like, yeah, absolutely.
Infuriating that.
It.
We don't just win and it doesn'tjust end, but it gets better
and it is getting better.
(24:57):
And in we are winning the relayrace on net in the long game.
In net.
Yeah.
And we have to keep winning it.
And I heard somebody after theelection, Tara Brock, um, said.
We also have to have some humilityabout the timeline, and I think
that that is really a hard thing forcampaign operatives to internalize
(25:18):
because we are all about the timelineand we're all about winning, and
we're on a deadline and we live on adeadline, and this fight will continue.
And so do the best you can with thetime that you have and maximize it.
But know that it's a long game andyou're running a relay race and run it
hard, but it's gonna exist beyond you.
(25:39):
And our job is to leave it better.
And that's what we're doing.
And my third thing, maybe to your point.
Oh, I love it, Tara.
I love it.
Hope and positivity.
Yeah.
While the voters are withus, they are with us.
Yeah.
You can see it in the data.
I agree.
I do.
I do, I do that.
We, we are, we have wonevery election so far.
Right.
They, they are gonna do what they alwaysdo, and they're gonna push it too far.
(25:59):
And America is gonna do its thingand it's gonna say, no, no, no.
Too far, too, too, too far.
Too far.
We don't, we're not that.
We don't do that becausethey don't like Too
far in any
direction.
On any direction.
Right.
In either direction.
Any direction.
Yes.
Yes.
And um,
well, I was gonna take us on a tangentwith the scene from the West Wing.
(26:22):
I will spare us the West Wingstory, but you can if you'd like.
That's the point.
Um, the point is that Iwas gonna make is that.
As Americans, we on net the majority ofthis country, we internalize democracy.
We, we teach democracy from the verybeginning stages of life with our kids.
(26:48):
It's in every fabric oflife in our country, and.
That is important becausepeople internalize it.
The, the American voterhas internalized democracy.
It is a value that we all hear each otherand listen to each other, and we have
rights, and those rights are protected.
And the rule of law is howthings go, and it has to be fair.
(27:09):
And no one gets a a exemption.
'cause you didn't get an exemption onthe playground in fourth grade, so you
don't get an exemption as an grownup.
Right.
We just, we check each other becausewe've internalized democracy and
that will save us in the end.
Yeah.
Because these guys are gonnapush and they're mostly guys
and they're gonna push too far.
(27:29):
And the American voter is gonnacheck them like they always do.
And I have deep faith in that.
And we're already starting to seeit in the data, in the fact that
we've won every election so far.
So keep pushing, show up to do democracy2026 seems like a lifetime away from
right now, but it is our next frontier.
We gotta do democracy.
(27:49):
To save democracy, yougotta stay in the fight.
You gotta show up, yougotta play the long game.
You gotta have these tools ofresilience so you can make it.
And you have to have faithin the American voter.
They're gonna come through, they always
do
eventually.
Yeah.
I love that.
I love that.
And I think it's so true.
And I was gonna say how, like Iwas gonna ask you about growing
up, but I feel like I was gonna belike, how did growing up impact you?
(28:12):
Um, I'm hoping you weren't like,uh, you got all the fairness
in the world on the playground
opposite.
I was sensing that, I mean, youknow, as a girl that is only five
feet, um, you can imagine that I,
I sure you're a lot to say I'm not
at all the fairness in the world on the
playground, but, um,
but I, but I did wonder and too,and like where you grew up and, and
(28:35):
how, like was this, something likethat pushed you to be in politic?
Like how did this, how did this bringyou to where you are and the, and
the passion about doing the work?
And, and I'm just, I'mjust curious like, yeah.
Hear people's origin stories.
Yeah.
And so basically, that's what I'm asking.
Sure.
Well, my origin story isthe east side of Las Vegas.
(28:55):
I grew up on the east side.
I'm very east side, um, which anyonewho knows Vegas knows what that means.
Um, I grew up in a, in a very.
Kind of, you know, lower middleclass working family, um, in
a very diverse neighborhoodon the east side of Las Vegas.
Um, my no one I knew was political.
Um, you know, it was, I lived in acommunity where people were working to
(29:18):
survive and you knew that you had to work.
That was the jam.
Everybody worked.
Everybody had a job.
Um, and as kids, our job was to go toschool and our parents were working
really hard all the time, every day.
My mom was a teacher.
Um, my dad is a physician assistant.
My stepdad was a taxi driver.
Um, you know, it was.
Hard times and, and wonderful times.
(29:39):
And you know, I still have the bestfriends that I grew up with still in
my life, which I'm very grateful for.
Um, you know, I grew up just arounda lot of people in a, working really
hard to make ends meet and dealingwith a lot of hard struggles in life.
I just was in, you know, oneof those communities where,
um, we had our fair share of.
Uh, drugs and death and, you know, jailand, um, hard experiences all around.
(30:05):
And I just, I saw the struggle oflife and, um, also the perseverance
that it takes to get out of thatand had an amazing childhood.
Um, that was both.
And I, um, the name of my company is both.
And because both thingscan be true and yeah.
Both and is my story where I've,you know, both seen hard times
(30:27):
and seen beautiful, amazingresilience through those hard times.
And, um, you know, I both grew upin an environment like that and I
went to college and I went to theUniversity of Arizona, and then
I went to grad school at Harvard.
And, um, you know, my, my rootsare still very deeply in the.
Communities I grew up in, and also I now,you know, get to do this amazing work
(30:48):
from a beautiful place in California.
Right?
It's just like it, lifeis full of conversations.
It's including mine.
It's full.
Yes.
I love it.
It's both and every possible way.
Um, including, and that, you know, andso I, in that environment just always had
a real bent toward fairness and justiceand what was right and what was fair.
Um, in my studies, I. Now really studythe Enneagram, which is so random, but
(31:13):
I am an Enneagram one and I realize havebeen my whole life, which is like there
is, there is a fair and just way of doingthings and everyone should have access to
that fair and just wait no matter what.
And.
That's the deal, you know?
And, um, and so I just right away,um, in my adolescence and college and
(31:34):
beyond, um, just did everything I couldto try to make the world a better place.
It's very cheesy andthat, but that's my jam.
It's like, what can we do to makethe world better for everyone?
And it's why I
had you on, because you'reone of my favorite people.
I love this.
I love this.
You know, why, why else are we here?
But to make it better for everyone.
(31:54):
Um, and, and to just love everyone always.
Um, and to make sure that the worlddoes as well and everyone can thrive
in the way that they should be ableto, especially in this country.
Um, and that's what we're fighting for.
And I believe that the field thatwe work in is a path to do that.
One of our, um, sayings in our familythat I have brought to, you know.
(32:16):
All of the places I've workedas well is keep the main thing.
The main thing.
Yeah.
And so what's the main thing?
And I think, you know, for, for me,it's like fairness and justice and love.
Um, but you know, it's one thing I alwaysask is like, what's your main thing?
Um, and keep the mainthing the main thing.
So, uh, I love that.
All right.
(32:37):
We've talked a lot about being a womanand leadership and politics, and I think,
you know, being a mom, what's your bestadvice to someone who is out there doing
all this work and being all those things?
It's so hard.
I mean, one thing you taughtme is the best way to do it
is to try to be in charge.
Yeah.
(32:57):
Like, you know, the, the more you canhave ownership and control on your
schedule and your experience, the, thebetter position you are to make it work.
Now, not everyone can do that.
Certainly, and I, Ifully acknowledge that.
Um, but I think, um,the more that you can.
(33:21):
Create the, the space mm-hmm.
To both do your kids and do work.
Right.
Um, and, and to both have the flexibilitythat you need, but also to, you know, show
up the way you have to show up at work.
Like it's, it's not justa constant balancing act.
And, you know, I think that for women and.
(33:43):
You know, really parentsgenerally, but you know, the,
the majority of the parental workstill does fall on the woman.
That's a different podcast.
Let's talk about that.
But, um, we can, you know,that's, that is the reality.
I, I think that.
You're not gonna win every day.
But again, like play the long game,like are you showing up the way
you wanna show up to your kids andyour family and to your job on net?
(34:06):
Um, and, and do you have the space thatyou need in the day to, to do the best
you can and just do the best you can.
It's.
I mean, we all have wildstories about how we've done it.
I mean, looking back it's like insane.
Like you know when I first had mybaby, when I was at the D ccc and I
am, I remember one night where I didn'thave childcare and my boss at the
(34:28):
time, I was the political director.
I worked for Robbie Mooch.
Love, love Robbie.
You know, he just like added a meetingto the schedule that night with the
chair and the pollster, whatever, and heis like, can you come to this meeting?
And I was like, I have a baby.
I dunno what I, so it would belike last minute scrambling.
I literally dropped my fourmonth old off with a stranger.
It was like a friend of a friend who waslike, I'll take your baby for three hours.
(34:51):
And I literally was like,I've never met you, my baby.
I think
this is okay.
I guess it's okay.
I think it's fine.
Like this person seems fine.
That's a pocket call from likethe ER where my kid was at
and I'm like, what am I doing?
Yeah.
But like you just end up doingit 'cause you're like, it's fine.
It'll work out.
I, I remember I was
in my, my daughter got, um, theflu when she was 18 month old.
So first of all.
(35:12):
Like worst parent of the year.
Like my kid got the flu.
Yeah, they all do.
You can prevent that one.
You know, so we're in, in thehospital in, she's 18 months old.
We're in the hospital with the fluand she's like, I'm just holding her.
And she's like hooked up to all thestuff and she's like, just laying
on my chest and she's sleeping.
I'm like, oh, perfect.
I can work.
So, so a, I'm working, I'm like textinghim or whatever and my 18 month old at
(35:37):
the time, do you know, she lifted up offof my chest, took my phone and threw it.
She was like, payattention, 18 months old.
And I was like, oh,under message received.
You know, it just, there's a millionstories that we've all experienced
for how hard this is, and you justdo the best you can every day.
And to the extent that you cancreate the flexibility that you
(35:58):
need to make it work, try, trywith your job, try with your boss.
Um, that doesn't meanthat you don't show up.
Yeah.
It, it means that you show up thebest that you can in all of the
settings, and you play the long gameand you're not gonna win every day.
That's what I, and that's okay.
I, I tell people that all the time.
I'm like, you're just gonna try your best.
And some days you win andsome days you just don't.
(36:19):
Yeah, that's okay.
And then you try again tomorrow.
Yes, exactly.
You just fine.
Do some deep breathing, liketry some breathing exercise.
I'm not kidding.
I mean, honestly, um, mindfulnessmeditation has saved me in this Yeah.
So many times.
So many times, so many times.
So many times.
Yeah.
And
talking to others 'cause everybody'sgoing through it secretly.
(36:39):
Everyone's going through it.
Alright, I'm gonna ask you to lead mewith a projection of the 26 midterms.
Um, and then I will, I will set youfree to go live your life and do some
deep breathing and do the best at bothend and motherhood and everything else.
But I do want the predictionfor the 26 midterms.
Um, I predict we win the house.
(37:00):
For sure.
Um, I predict that we have a ton ofdown ballot wins around the country.
Okay.
I predict that Democratsget rolled momentum, okay.
Um, leading up to the election.
And with the election, I predict thatAmericans are fed up by then and they
use the 2026 election to put theirfoot down and we, it is our job to
(37:22):
facilitate that from now until it happens.
Every day just keep showing upand facilitate that drumbeat.
But it will happen because theyare going too far and the American
voter will check them and we justhave to keep chipping away and
doing our job to ladder up to that.
But keep doing it.
'cause I think we'regonna crush the midterms.
That's my prediction.
I love it.
(37:43):
Well, thank you so muchfor coming on so much.
Thank you for doing this.
Thank you for having me.
Me too.
And I'm so happy the world ishearing more of your voice.
It's good for all of us.
Thank you.
And I'm so, I'm proudof you for doing this.
I'm so happy that you're doing it.
Um, I can't wait to be a, a avid listenerand thank you for having me join you.
It's just so good to seeyou and talk with you.
Thanks for listeningto Political Trail Mix.
(38:04):
Make sure to follow and review whereveryou get your podcast and stay connected
with me on Instagram and YouTube.
Let's keep this conversation going.
I am Taryn Rosenkranz, and this isPolitical Trail Mix where strategy
meets storytelling, and everyepisode unpacks the people power
and politics shaping our country.
Let's dig in.
I am Taryn Rosenkranz, and I'm so excitedto have Kelly Burton here with me today.
Kelly and I used to work together atthe d ccc, which is the Democratic,
uh, congressional Campaign Committeeand the house, uh, campaign arm to
(00:25):
help elect more Democrats to takeover the majority for the house.
And I'm so excited to have aconversation with her as I've been
having conversations with democraticoperatives across the country.
Now, next time, I promisewe're gonna do this.
In person with wine or coffee or candy.
I don't know.
Something that is a little morefun than us sitting in our offices.
(00:47):
But because these conversationsare important and you are now
living across the country, Ithought that maybe we needed to
make them happen a little sooner.
And so I want you to tell us alittle bit about yourself quickly,
and then let's dig into this.
Sure.
Well, thank you for having me.
I'm so excited
you're
doing
this.
Um, and it's just so great
to see you and bereconnected with you and,
(01:10):
um,
I have just been a huge fan of yourssince the first day I met you and,
um, loved working with you and I'm
so happy you're doing this.
So thanks for bringing me along.
I'm excited
to,
to
talk today.
Um, so as
Uhn, when I at the.
(01:30):
I started there in 2010.
Um, and prior to that I hadworked on several campaigns.
I managed house campaigns,I managed a senate campaign.
Um, I had run a big nationaladvocacy campaign on the C3 side.
I ran a C four.
So I had done a combination of, um,political advocacy, campaign management.
(01:52):
Um, I started in field actually,and, you know, love, love, um, my
kind of origins as a field organizer.
Um, and then worked at the DCC andactually stayed there seven years.
Um, even at some point hung on.
Yes, we hung on, we we're the lifers.
I now consider myself like.
A macro fan of the DCC like alumni fan.
(02:14):
I love that building so much.
Um, but then after I left the, I wasthe, uh, a field, a regional, political
regional, and then the politicaldirector, and then I stayed on as the
executive director for two cycles.
Um, learned a ton.
Loved that job.
We can dig into, uh, everythingthat we both learned there.
Um.
I moved over and helped start the NationalDemocratic Redistricting Committee.
(02:37):
'cause after having worked at theD ccc, um, to really try very hard
to win races on gerrymandered maps,um, I and many others in the party
realized that what we really neededwas a home base for redistricting
to help fix the maps, um, and theirway, make the elections more fair.
It has been a tough year.
Uh, it was a tough election, butthen even 2025 with everything
(02:58):
that Trump did, it was just.
Getting worse and worse and worse.
And I know we were all feeling the stress.
I know you and I are political operatives.
I know you're married to one.
I know all of our friendsare political operatives.
Um, it it's just a lot.
And I, you know, appreciate what you did.
I'm wondering how you came up with it.
Um, what it is.
I want you to tell me everything about it.
(03:19):
I think we all wanna know all aboutit, um, and how it can help us.
Yes.
Excellent.
Thank you.
Um, well, just to start, so ourpost-election program was called
After Action 2024, and that was avery intentionally named, um, program,
uh, which I'll explain in a second.
But basically, as you said, campaignsare incredibly stressful, right?
(03:41):
It's just such a, a high stress, highimpact, high intense, intense experience.
For America, America, but particularlyfor the people who dedicate
their entire lives to a campaign.
It's, you know, the campaign workers onthe ground, the people at the committees,
the people who are doing, you know,ballot initiatives or, um, advocacy
(04:04):
campaigns and long-term movement building.
And, you know, even the Uber volunteerswho give up everything to go travel or to,
you know, to spend the last few months ona race, like you throw your life into it.
It's intense and you are, youknow, in this high purpose, really
exciting, stressful experiencethat is driven by this deadline.
(04:27):
And then it ends, andthen election day comes.
And you know, you and I,we've both been on campaigns.
You experienced this whereyou're like looking around like.
What do we do now, guys?
It can feel like falling offa cliff where you just don't
know what to do with yourself.
And, um, oftentimes people get sick.
There's a crash that can come afterthe election because you've just been
(04:48):
in this high intensity experience andyou really do need an intentional.
Come down from that experience.
And in the political world, we don'toften provide that for our campaign folks.
Um, we do a ton of debriefingthe strategy, right?
So we debrief what worked, what didn't.
(05:08):
You know, the strategy, thetactics, what we learned.
We assess the data, we dig in oneverything we can possibly know
about the work we did, but not on.
How we experienced the work and whatit was like for us each individually
and personally and collectively, wejust, we don't necessarily create
the same level of support to debriefthat, and that's incredibly important.
(05:30):
It's important because we're all humans.
It's important because.
We, we did learn a lot and wewant people to stay in this work.
You know, the political spaceis a professional sector.
These are jobs you can havefor your entire career.
This is a really, really important sector.
I call it the beating heartof democracy campaign.
Operatives are the beatingheart of democracy.
(05:52):
We are what keeps it pumping.
We are what keeps it working.
We are the link between the,the folks who are making really
important decisions in these.
Positions and the voters who choosethem, and that is incredibly important.
As a sector and, and we don't oftentreat it as such and in these other high
(06:12):
stress sectors like the healthcare sectoror the military or education or you
know, just these, these, these servicesectors where we're doing a lot to serve
and it's very intense and stressful.
There is now a lot of intentionalwork happening to bring the
research-based practices.
Um, that we know about how to handleburnout, how to handle stress, how
to, you know, leverage your breathing,how to reset your nervous system.
(06:36):
You know, there's so much science nowand we don't necessarily bring it to
our people in the same way that othersectors are, um, are being serviced.
So that's what we wanted to do withafter action, and we called it after
action because as you may remember, yeah.
The,
you were gonna tell people Yes.
Little known secret here did little
known secret that when we didall those post-election debriefs,
(06:56):
we called them after actions.
So you did a million after action reportsabout every district, about, you know,
all the different pieces of our work.
So we intentionally calledthis program after action 2024.
Um, but the asset that wewere debriefing was ourself.
And really creating space and astructured program that's based in
research, um, to give people somesupport for that post-election period.
(07:17):
That's very stressful andsometimes very confusing.
Yeah, absolutely.
I, I can't tell you how gratefulI am that you're doing this work.
I mean, I remember 2010, I, I was workingat the d ccc, it was quite a devastating
year for those who don't remember.
We lost indeed, we lost seats that year.
It wasn't, it wasn't exactly 63.
Yeah.
(07:39):
Um, and, and I also, you know,I, I was very, very pregnant at
the time and, and I will say.
Like, we went back to work like thenext day, you know, and it's like we
went back to work and we were like,oh, we're gonna save this one seat.
Like, not processing, likewhat had happened about the
other like 60 plus at the time?
Yeah.
Because we were so focused onlike, just getting it done.
(08:01):
And I, and I'm so gladthat somebody like, was.
Hey, we've really got to do thishaving been there before, because
otherwise you spend decades likejust keep going back to work.
Yeah.
Just keep going back to work.
Yes.
Um, and I know like with COVID andeverything else, like so much has changed.
Um, that we really do need to makesure we're taking care of our people.
(08:23):
So I love that you're doing this.
I love so much.
I love it.
Um, and I think, you know,what are the things that we
can do personally differently?
Like what are some of the things?
Yeah, like what I, I took this soI'm cheating a little bit, so I sat
through some of this, but if you aresomeone who is listening to this,
like what can they do differently?
What can we do?
Like what has changed and, andwhat do we need to do differently?
(08:45):
Absolutely.
Great question.
Um, well, I do think that over the yearssince you and I were, you know, at the
committee and, and running campaigns and,and, and you were basically designing
how Democrats should do digital, um,which for those of you who don't know,
Tarn is like the matriarch of digital.
Um, communications for Democrats.
She figured it out andshe led us through it.
(09:07):
And I will also say she mentionedthat she was very pregnant.
Taryn was also on the very cuttingedge of women who figured out how
to have these huge, big jobs andalso have a family and have babies.
And Taryn, I don't know if youremember this, but when I got
pregnant at the DCC, you were the.
First person I talked to, I waslike, Darren, how did you do it?
(09:27):
How do we do this?
How do you work here and have a baby?
This is fun.
We're all trying
to still figure that
out, but yes, yes, indeed.
But I do, I think you really, you charteda path for us, for the rest of us, and we
followed you in those footsteps becauseyou did figure out how to make this work
to both, you know, serve at all of theselevels, both in politics and in our
(09:47):
families, and to just not have to choose.
Um, you really were a trailblazer.
Follow us.
So I commend you for that.
Love that.
I love that thing.
Shout out you.
Um, and I do think that you know, largelybecause of people like you and others
over the last, you know, however manydecades we've been doing this work,
there is more support in our field for.
(10:08):
Work life balance and for mentalhealth services and for things
like maternity and paternity leave.
Um, and, you know, just the, thedifferent ways that we can support people
through, um, the life of these jobs.
I do think we are better at that.
I think there's.
We have healthcare, you know, we havepaid internships, we have unions,
(10:28):
like we have rights for workers thatwe didn't have in this field before.
Like all of that is net positive.
There's also been a ton of progress,I think we've made on management, on
actually like teaching management on,you know, training people, um, to do, you
know, the management side of this work.
And, and so all of thatis really positive.
Um, and a and a good.
(10:49):
Directional, you know, uh, trajectorythat we are on, I am offering.
And what I think we all needto be thinking about is almost
like the next frontier of that.
When you look at the research,what the research says, and this is
happening in other fields, right?
Other fields, particularly like, um,professional sports is doing this a lot.
(11:11):
The military is doing this a lot.
When you look at the research of whatit takes to achieve high performance,
like that's our goal, right?
We wanna win, we wanna do these jobs.
Well, we want to optimize ourperformance as humans so that we
can have an impact on democracy.
That's why we're here.
That's why we do this work.
We're here to serve.
We're here to win.
We believe Democrats shouldbe in office so that we can do
great things for the country.
(11:31):
Um, and, and you know, we arethe beating heart of that.
I always say we are thebeating heart of democracy.
We are the link between the people who aremaking these big important decisions for
our country and the voters who elect them.
That is our job.
We are that link.
We are the blood that's pumping tokeep the system of democracy going.
And we wanna do that well.
(11:51):
So we need to optimize performance.
So when you look at other fields and whatthe research is saying, there's basically.
Three kind of like legs of a stool,if you think about it, to like the, to
balance and have optimal performance.
Um, I think we do one of the three verywell and the other two not so well.
So the three buckets are, one is your,like professional training, right?
(12:13):
You just gotta know how to do your job.
We crush that.
We train people.
We, you know, we, we teachpeople how to do these jobs.
Um, there's a million trainings.
It's very good.
Um, and just that day-to-day experiencethat you get on campaigns we is.
Awesome.
So we do the professionaldevelopment piece very well.
The second kind of leg of thestool is your personal health.
So are you healthy?
(12:34):
Are you, you know, eating right?
Are you sleeping?
Are you just taking care of your health?
We all know those things.
I don't know that we necessarily alldo them, but we know we should, right?
There's a lot of informationabout how to maintain your
health, but the other third piece.
I think in our field we are missing,but other fields are really capitalizing
on is what I call inner focus.
(12:55):
It is like what are you doing toregulate your body and to maintain
your nervous system in a healthy wayso you're making good decisions and
you're not in fight or flight, you areactually act, you know, making decisions
and your rational thinking brain.
That takes practice in thesame way that you prac, you get
stronger by going to the gym.
You build your inner focus, you buildyour inner resilience through practice.
(13:18):
And that is a new frontier ofsupport that I think we need to
provide to campaign operatives.
Um, and so I think that's part ofwhat we were doing with after action.
I think that's part of what weneed to be doing more and more of.
In addition to the, the growth anddevelopment that we've made on mental
health services, on, you know, thedifferent ways to kind of support the work
(13:39):
experience of people in this field, whichis great, I think we also can do more to
support that inner experience and trainingand practice that people need to actually
achieve resilience and make it through anentire cycle in these high stress jobs.
Well because that getting out of fight orflight is how you move past this grief.
(14:00):
Um, and in a November election, likeit's how you move past the grief of
any election, to be quite honest.
Yes.
But otherwise you spend decades,which I may say myself, I
might be a little guilty about.
You spend decades of being in crisis mode.
Right.
It's like one thing after another.
Yes.
And you stay at the D CCC forseven years and then you may go
start your own business for 15.
(14:20):
Right.
And just like wake up one day and belike, wow, I've been in crisis mode
for like, you know, over 20 years.
Of it's just one campaign to the next.
Yes.
Right?
Yes.
Starts to all blur together
a hundred percent.
And the impact that that ishaving on your body is real.
Right.
Oh, the impact
that you are
putting,
I feel it.
I feel like a hundred right now.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
(14:40):
And the number of people, Taryn, that Ihave talked to since I have, you know,
moved into this really intentionalfield of, of learning about this and
getting, you know, certified and allof the things and becoming a coach and
really trying to work with folks on this.
Is the number of people who'vegotten sick on campaigns secretly?
Oh my gosh.
The number of people who crash, thenumber of people I have talked to.
(15:01):
Multiple people who secretly went to thehospital either on the campaign or after.
Oh, right here, September, 2024.
Hospitalized with sepsis.
With sepsis.
That's like a like.
Right.
Yeah.
Why are we doing that to ourselves?
And we don't need to.
That's the thing, like there are practicesthat you can incorporate into your life
that it doesn't solve everything, andwe're not gonna make these jobs less
(15:23):
stressful, but you can help it notsend you to the hospital, you know?
Right.
Yes.
It doesn't have to be that way,and, and truthfully, it's this
idea, which I think is really,really important and I love that.
Of the three sort of pillars orthe three-legged stool is how, I
think you said it, three-leggedstool pillars is better.
Yeah, that's okay either way.
(15:44):
But it's, it's the idea,well the three-legged stool
supports what you supports you.
It's holding you.
Exactly.
It gets holding you.
Exactly.
And that to me is such a change.
Right.
But you know, going back for a second,and not just because you complimented
me, but going two, but saying like.
Leading the way and the sort of,you know, of women and being there.
(16:05):
I do think part of this though iswe needed to model that behavior.
Yeah.
So I, what I love is that thisprogram is here, so we are not
just teaching ourselves, but we'remodeling that behavior for the future.
Because part of why I like tried to helpothers was because I, there was only like.
One mom there at the d Tripp at the time,like Jackie Forte McKay, who was I like,
(16:26):
shared an office with, there was like onemom there and she didn't have little kids.
She had a little bit older kids,but there wasn't any, there was
single people like and young people.
And I was like, okay, well she'shere and she has two kids, like.
It's like, you know, somehow it works.
It's like, maybe I can have one kid,but like, will I make it with two?
And the second kid was like, allright, now I have a second kid.
(16:47):
Can I do this with two?
And then I'm like, wellJackie, there she has two.
You know, it's like, but I wanted to beable to tell people like, you can do it.
Here's how I did it.
And so if we pass this on and wemodeled that for others, it does help.
And it was like immediatelylike, oh, here's what I did
and here's how I can do it.
And here's a tip and here's a trick.
Um, and if this is like a program, andthis is a way we can do this to get out
(17:12):
of fight or flight, isn't that wonderful?
So yes.
Love
that.
Love
that.
And I'll also, just going back tosomething you said earlier about how
stressful it can be in these jobs,especially when you do them over and over
again without taking a beat and without,you know, reflecting or without pausing.
That is even worse nowwith Donald Trump, right?
(17:32):
Because that's his jam.
Like this is what he wants to do.
He wants to create stress, he wantsto distract, he wants to, you know,
have everybody that in reactive mode.
Um, 'cause like you said, thenit's a distraction and then he can
sort of get away with the thingshe is, is really doing to, you
know, consolidate power, et cetera.
So I also think that strategicallythis becomes really important.
(17:57):
Right now, because all of us, Democrats,republicans, you know, just the American
people, we have to, as I tell my daughter,like, you know, keep our heads, we have
to keep our heads, we have to be ableto control our own reactions so that
we are responding and not reacting.
And, and that's what these practices do.
(18:17):
So if you go to after action 2020four.com, um, you actually can access
everything we did for the program.
It, you know, it was.
Five week program.
It ended in mid-December.
But all of the videos, all of thepractices, all of the journal prompts,
um, all the Zoom sessions that we did,it's all still online and folks can go on
there and, you know, if you need to findbalance, there's this awesome, um, uh,
(18:40):
kind of thread about how to find balance.
In life done by one ofour par partners, Mente.
Um, in the program, there'sreally great breathing techniques.
There's an awesome presentation from EmilyParcell about how to identify burnout.
You know, there's just these toolsthat you can access, and at the end of
the day, what they do is they help us.
Regulate our nervous system sothat we can respond and not react,
(19:02):
and that is gonna make us smarter.
It's gonna make us better, it's gonnahelp us make better strategic decisions,
and it's gonna keep us in this work sothat we are actually resilient and we can
push through and continue the fight andcontinue to show up every day, even in
the face of this relentless triggeringthat we are experiencing all the time.
(19:22):
Yes, yes.
Yes.
I love that.
And I think it's so important.
And that was, um, that we are doingthe things like making the time for
the things, making the time to havethe beat, making the time to, for like,
to really reflect to your point, um,and making sure that we're going back.
And like what's great is, is that there'sno, there's no time limit on this.
(19:43):
Yeah.
Like you can go back, um, andlook at these things now because
they still are important andit's still important to do it.
And there's no timeline on grief.
I tell people that all the time, like.
You might still be feeling itand you might still be doing it.
Um, one thing we say at our, at my companyall the time is I'm like, and that, not
that any of our clients would ever dothis, but don't get on your rollercoaster.
And really it goes to your employer,it goes to your employees, it goes to
(20:07):
your coworkers, it goes to your familymembers or siblings, whatever it is.
Um.
But don't get on the rollercoaster.
And I've like say that about Trumpall the time too, but don't get
on the rollercoaster, which iskeeping your head like so, so true.
Um, because if you don't get onthe rollercoaster, you can, yes.
You might miss out on a few highs, butit's really not worth the lows either.
(20:28):
But it's the long game.
You play the long game and then you canmake it and then you don't burn out.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
You're just, you're just gonna be ableto have a little bit more of that.
Um, I kind of wanna justget into a few other things.
Sure.
I wanna talk a little bit about, um,sort of, I think people are feeling
hopeless right now, so I, I wanna talka little positivity here and get your
(20:48):
political side of your brain for a second.
Yeah.
And just say, you know, we did havesome success, you know, last cycle.
So I've been kind of talkingto different folks and sort of
getting, you know, we are, we arepotentially close to a house maturity.
Um, and, and when you were.
DC, CC, there was some tough times,but also some victorious ones.
And so I'm wondering what you think,uh, might be some recipes for success
(21:11):
for them, or one thing that you thinkmight be, um, a good sign, a little,
little hopefulness here, or one thingthat might be able to make a difference.
So any advice that you might give tofolks that are working on these things
or anything that might be, uh, uh, thatyou would see as a, as a good sign there?
Yes.
Yes.
Um.
Thank you for asking.
Well, first shout out everyonewho's doing this work right now.
(21:33):
It's very hard, it's very stressful.
Um, there are incrediblydifficult decisions being made
every day, and there's really.
Heartbreaking implications of whatthis administration is doing every day.
And it is just so challenging tolive in it, um, and to be in it.
And, and for those of you and allof us who work in it every day,
(21:56):
I just wanna shout out, um, yourhearts and why we do this work.
Um, 'cause it is really, really important.
And the minute we give up andstop doing it is when it all ends.
Right.
Like it is, it is the exhaustingreality of democracy that you have
to do democracy to save democracy.
(22:18):
You have to continue to show up to dothe work in order to keep democracy real.
Right?
I kind of, I sometimes equate it tomoney, like money has value because
we all decide that it has value.
Right.
And we keep the economy goingso that it can retain its value.
But part of that is alsobelieving that it has value.
And the minute that, you know, westart to question it and it like the
(22:42):
fabric around trusting the money falls,we're all like, it doesn't have value.
Ah.
And then entire economy's collapse, right?
Democracy's not different than that.
It's very similar where democracyexists because we are doing democracy
and cannot fall into the trap.
Democracy is over, or that they areending democracy, which I believe me,
(23:05):
come from the school of thought thatthat is very real and very possible.
And in fact, for some of the people on theother side of the political equation here,
that is their goal a hundred percent.
And it is incumbentupon us to do democracy.
To save democracy, we have to keepshowing up because the minute we
don't, that's when it all falls apart.
And that's when people give up andthat's when the voters give up.
(23:27):
And then if they see all ofus give up, they give up.
Like just the, the, thecrumble will happen.
So we are, um, part of sandbaggingthe protection of democracy and
the way to do that is to justcontinue to do it and to show up.
So, um.
That's, that's more just a kindof a top line point, I suppose.
Um, the second piece of advice that Iwould give other than just like keep
(23:53):
showing up is to play the long game.
Because it's really important to remember,and it took me two decades of doing
this work to really internalize this,is that you don't ever win for good.
Right.
This fight doesn't end.
It's like Barack Obama used to say likethis is our part of the relay race.
(24:16):
Democracy's a relay race and socialjustice is a relay race and, and rights
for all in the way that we believeas progressives is a relay race.
And this is our part of it.
And our job is to grab the baton and likerun as far and as fast down the track
that we can get while we have the baton.
That's our jam.
(24:36):
That's what we do.
And then we hand it off and itis, it's an exhausting reality.
It reminds me of the science, like atthe women's March, like these old, old
women who were like, I can't believewe're still dealing with this shit.
You know?
It's like that.
It's like, yeah, absolutely.
Infuriating that.
It.
We don't just win and it doesn'tjust end, but it gets better
and it is getting better.
(24:57):
And in we are winning the relayrace on net in the long game.
In net.
Yeah.
And we have to keep winning it.
And I heard somebody after theelection, Tara Brock, um, said.
We also have to have some humilityabout the timeline, and I think
that that is really a hard thing forcampaign operatives to internalize
(25:18):
because we are all about the timelineand we're all about winning, and
we're on a deadline and we live on adeadline, and this fight will continue.
And so do the best you can with thetime that you have and maximize it.
But know that it's a long game andyou're running a relay race and run it
hard, but it's gonna exist beyond you.
(25:39):
And our job is to leave it better.
And that's what we're doing.
And my third thing, maybe to your point.
Oh, I love it, Tara.
I love it.
Hope and positivity.
Yeah.
While the voters are withus, they are with us.
Yeah.
You can see it in the data.
I agree.
I do.
I do, I do that.
We, we are, we have wonevery election so far.
Right.
They, they are gonna do what they alwaysdo, and they're gonna push it too far.
(25:59):
And America is gonna do its thingand it's gonna say, no, no, no.
Too far, too, too, too far.
Too far.
We don't, we're not that.
We don't do that becausethey don't like Too
far in any
direction.
On any direction.
Right.
In either direction.
Any direction.
Yes.
Yes.
And um,
well, I was gonna take us on a tangentwith the scene from the West Wing.
(26:22):
I will spare us the West Wingstory, but you can if you'd like.
That's the point.
Um, the point is that Iwas gonna make is that.
As Americans, we on net the majority ofthis country, we internalize democracy.
We, we teach democracy from the verybeginning stages of life with our kids.
(26:48):
It's in every fabric oflife in our country, and.
That is important becausepeople internalize it.
The, the American voterhas internalized democracy.
It is a value that we all hear each otherand listen to each other, and we have
rights, and those rights are protected.
And the rule of law is howthings go, and it has to be fair.
(27:09):
And no one gets a a exemption.
'cause you didn't get an exemption onthe playground in fourth grade, so you
don't get an exemption as an grownup.
Right.
We just, we check each other becausewe've internalized democracy and
that will save us in the end.
Yeah.
Because these guys are gonnapush and they're mostly guys
and they're gonna push too far.
(27:29):
And the American voter is gonnacheck them like they always do.
And I have deep faith in that.
And we're already starting to seeit in the data, in the fact that
we've won every election so far.
So keep pushing, show up to do democracy2026 seems like a lifetime away from
right now, but it is our next frontier.
We gotta do democracy.
(27:49):
To save democracy, yougotta stay in the fight.
You gotta show up, yougotta play the long game.
You gotta have these tools ofresilience so you can make it.
And you have to have faithin the American voter.
They're gonna come through, they always
do
eventually.
Yeah.
I love that.
I love that.
And I think it's so true.
And I was gonna say how, like Iwas gonna ask you about growing
up, but I feel like I was gonna belike, how did growing up impact you?
(28:12):
Um, I'm hoping you weren't like,uh, you got all the fairness
in the world on the playground
opposite.
I was sensing that, I mean, youknow, as a girl that is only five
feet, um, you can imagine that I,
I sure you're a lot to say I'm not
at all the fairness in the world on the
playground, but, um,
but I, but I did wonder and too,and like where you grew up and, and
(28:35):
how, like was this, something likethat pushed you to be in politic?
Like how did this, how did this bringyou to where you are and the, and
the passion about doing the work?
And, and I'm just, I'mjust curious like, yeah.
Hear people's origin stories.
Yeah.
And so basically, that's what I'm asking.
Sure.
Well, my origin story isthe east side of Las Vegas.
(28:55):
I grew up on the east side.
I'm very east side, um, which anyonewho knows Vegas knows what that means.
Um, I grew up in a, in a very.
Kind of, you know, lower middleclass working family, um, in
a very diverse neighborhoodon the east side of Las Vegas.
Um, my no one I knew was political.
Um, you know, it was, I lived in acommunity where people were working to
(29:18):
survive and you knew that you had to work.
That was the jam.
Everybody worked.
Everybody had a job.
Um, and as kids, our job was to go toschool and our parents were working
really hard all the time, every day.
My mom was a teacher.
Um, my dad is a physician assistant.
My stepdad was a taxi driver.
Um, you know, it was.
Hard times and, and wonderful times.
(29:39):
And you know, I still have the bestfriends that I grew up with still in
my life, which I'm very grateful for.
Um, you know, I grew up just arounda lot of people in a, working really
hard to make ends meet and dealingwith a lot of hard struggles in life.
I just was in, you know, oneof those communities where,
um, we had our fair share of.
Uh, drugs and death and, you know, jailand, um, hard experiences all around.
(30:05):
And I just, I saw the struggle oflife and, um, also the perseverance
that it takes to get out of thatand had an amazing childhood.
Um, that was both.
And I, um, the name of my company is both.
And because both thingscan be true and yeah.
Both and is my story where I've,you know, both seen hard times
(30:27):
and seen beautiful, amazingresilience through those hard times.
And, um, you know, I both grew upin an environment like that and I
went to college and I went to theUniversity of Arizona, and then
I went to grad school at Harvard.
And, um, you know, my, my rootsare still very deeply in the.
Communities I grew up in, and also I now,you know, get to do this amazing work
(30:48):
from a beautiful place in California.
Right?
It's just like it, lifeis full of conversations.
It's including mine.
It's full.
Yes.
I love it.
It's both and every possible way.
Um, including, and that, you know, andso I, in that environment just always had
a real bent toward fairness and justiceand what was right and what was fair.
Um, in my studies, I. Now really studythe Enneagram, which is so random, but
(31:13):
I am an Enneagram one and I realize havebeen my whole life, which is like there
is, there is a fair and just way of doingthings and everyone should have access to
that fair and just wait no matter what.
And.
That's the deal, you know?
And, um, and so I just right away,um, in my adolescence and college and
(31:34):
beyond, um, just did everything I couldto try to make the world a better place.
It's very cheesy andthat, but that's my jam.
It's like, what can we do to makethe world better for everyone?
And it's why I
had you on, because you'reone of my favorite people.
I love this.
I love this.
You know, why, why else are we here?
But to make it better for everyone.
(31:54):
Um, and, and to just love everyone always.
Um, and to make sure that the worlddoes as well and everyone can thrive
in the way that they should be ableto, especially in this country.
Um, and that's what we're fighting for.
And I believe that the field thatwe work in is a path to do that.
One of our, um, sayings in our familythat I have brought to, you know.
(32:16):
All of the places I've workedas well is keep the main thing.
The main thing.
Yeah.
And so what's the main thing?
And I think, you know, for, for me,it's like fairness and justice and love.
Um, but you know, it's one thing I alwaysask is like, what's your main thing?
Um, and keep the mainthing the main thing.
So, uh, I love that.
All right.
(32:37):
We've talked a lot about being a womanand leadership and politics, and I think,
you know, being a mom, what's your bestadvice to someone who is out there doing
all this work and being all those things?
It's so hard.
I mean, one thing you taughtme is the best way to do it
is to try to be in charge.
Yeah.
(32:57):
Like, you know, the, the more you canhave ownership and control on your
schedule and your experience, the, thebetter position you are to make it work.
Now, not everyone can do that.
Certainly, and I, Ifully acknowledge that.
Um, but I think, um,the more that you can.
(33:21):
Create the, the space mm-hmm.
To both do your kids and do work.
Right.
Um, and, and to both have the flexibilitythat you need, but also to, you know, show
up the way you have to show up at work.
Like it's, it's not justa constant balancing act.
And, you know, I think that for women and.
(33:43):
You know, really parentsgenerally, but you know, the,
the majority of the parental workstill does fall on the woman.
That's a different podcast.
Let's talk about that.
But, um, we can, you know,that's, that is the reality.
I, I think that.
You're not gonna win every day.
But again, like play the long game,like are you showing up the way
you wanna show up to your kids andyour family and to your job on net?
(34:06):
Um, and, and do you have the space thatyou need in the day to, to do the best
you can and just do the best you can.
It's.
I mean, we all have wildstories about how we've done it.
I mean, looking back it's like insane.
Like you know when I first had mybaby, when I was at the D ccc and I
am, I remember one night where I didn'thave childcare and my boss at the
(34:28):
time, I was the political director.
I worked for Robbie Mooch.
Love, love Robbie.
You know, he just like added a meetingto the schedule that night with the
chair and the pollster, whatever, and heis like, can you come to this meeting?
And I was like, I have a baby.
I dunno what I, so it would belike last minute scrambling.
I literally dropped my fourmonth old off with a stranger.
It was like a friend of a friend who waslike, I'll take your baby for three hours.
(34:51):
And I literally was like,I've never met you, my baby.
I think
this is okay.
I guess it's okay.
I think it's fine.
Like this person seems fine.
That's a pocket call from likethe ER where my kid was at
and I'm like, what am I doing?
Yeah.
But like you just end up doingit 'cause you're like, it's fine.
It'll work out.
I, I remember I was
in my, my daughter got, um, theflu when she was 18 month old.
So first of all.
(35:12):
Like worst parent of the year.
Like my kid got the flu.
Yeah, they all do.
You can prevent that one.
You know, so we're in, in thehospital in, she's 18 months old.
We're in the hospital with the fluand she's like, I'm just holding her.
And she's like hooked up to all thestuff and she's like, just laying
on my chest and she's sleeping.
I'm like, oh, perfect.
I can work.
So, so a, I'm working, I'm like textinghim or whatever and my 18 month old at
(35:37):
the time, do you know, she lifted up offof my chest, took my phone and threw it.
She was like, payattention, 18 months old.
And I was like, oh,under message received.
You know, it just, there's a millionstories that we've all experienced
for how hard this is, and you justdo the best you can every day.
And to the extent that you cancreate the flexibility that you
(35:58):
need to make it work, try, trywith your job, try with your boss.
Um, that doesn't meanthat you don't show up.
Yeah.
It, it means that you show up thebest that you can in all of the
settings, and you play the long gameand you're not gonna win every day.
That's what I, and that's okay.
I, I tell people that all the time.
I'm like, you're just gonna try your best.
And some days you win andsome days you just don't.
(36:19):
Yeah, that's okay.
And then you try again tomorrow.
Yes, exactly.
You just fine.
Do some deep breathing, liketry some breathing exercise.
I'm not kidding.
I mean, honestly, um, mindfulnessmeditation has saved me in this Yeah.
So many times.
So many times, so many times.
So many times.
Yeah.
And
talking to others 'cause everybody'sgoing through it secretly.
(36:39):
Everyone's going through it.
Alright, I'm gonna ask you to lead mewith a projection of the 26 midterms.
Um, and then I will, I will set youfree to go live your life and do some
deep breathing and do the best at bothend and motherhood and everything else.
But I do want the predictionfor the 26 midterms.
Um, I predict we win the house.
(37:00):
For sure.
Um, I predict that we have a ton ofdown ballot wins around the country.
Okay.
I predict that Democratsget rolled momentum, okay.
Um, leading up to the election.
And with the election, I predict thatAmericans are fed up by then and they
use the 2026 election to put theirfoot down and we, it is our job to
(37:22):
facilitate that from now until it happens.
Every day just keep showing upand facilitate that drumbeat.
But it will happen because theyare going too far and the American
voter will check them and we justhave to keep chipping away and
doing our job to ladder up to that.
But keep doing it.
'cause I think we'regonna crush the midterms.
That's my prediction.
I love it.
(37:43):
Well, thank you so muchfor coming on so much.
Thank you for doing this.
Thank you for having me.
Me too.
And I'm so happy the world ishearing more of your voice.
It's good for all of us.
Thank you.
And I'm so, I'm proudof you for doing this.
I'm so happy that you're doing it.
Um, I can't wait to be a, a avid listenerand thank you for having me join you.
It's just so good to seeyou and talk with you.
Thanks for listeningto Political Trail Mix.
(38:04):
Make sure to follow and review whereveryou get your podcast and stay connected
with me on Instagram and YouTube.
Let's keep this conversation going.
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