July 13, 2025 • 30 mins
Tehillim Unveiled welcomes Dr. Yael Ziegler for a deep dive into a chapter once described by a Spanish sage as too blasphemous to read. Discover why this raw and daring psalm still speaks so powerfully today.
We want to hear from YOU at TehillimUnveiled@gmail.com.
Please consider supporting us at tehillimunveiled.com/support.
Sign up, so you don't miss the next episode: Mailing List
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to Tehillim Unveiled. This is Ari Leviston and it is a
huge honor to welcome Doctor Yael Ziegler, one of the
preeminent voices in the world of modern Tanak study.
She teaches at Matan as well as Hertzog College, and she's the
director of the Kitvuni Women's Writing Fellowship at Matan.
(00:23):
A beloved educator and sought after speaker, she has taught
audiences across 5 continents and is the acclaimed author of
several foundational works, including books on Ruth,
lamentations, and Oats in the Biblical narrative.
Dr. Ziegler, it's a huge honor to have you thank.
You thank you for having. Me today.
So Doctor Ziegler, you told me you wanted to talk about till
(00:44):
I'm 89 pay tech. And at first I was a little
surprised because it's one that I'm not particularly familiar
with, although there are a few lines that are quoted in various
songs or parts of davening. I guess the third longest by
verse is more in the entire bookof Tehillim.
But you promised me that it's well worth studying.
So what can we expect in this long?
(01:06):
Bismar here, yeah. So I mean, first of all, I think
what's interesting about the mismar is that it starts out so
wonderfully. Haste Hashem, O Lama Shira,
right? I will always sing of the haste
Hashem. Most people, I think, would
translate that. The kindnesses of God.
I'm going to go with what I think is the primary meaning of
has said into last, which I think is loyalty, right?
Always sing of the loyalties of God, Lidor vador odia emunatska
(01:30):
defeat from generation to generation.
I will tell of your faithfulnessin my mouth.
He over and over mentioned this pair of words, kassed the
emunah, which basically mean thesame thing, right?
If kassed means loyalty and emunah means faithfulness.
So we are singing to God of God's loyalty and faithfulness.
(01:50):
For what is striking about the Mizwah is what happens after
verse 38, right? So verse 38, you know, kind of
ends with this sella, which we don't exactly know what it is,
but it appears throughout safer T leem as some kind of, you
know, end some kind of period atthe end of the sentence.
It might be immune. Heartbreak.
Something right? So we have this sella and
(02:11):
suddenly in verse 39 the means more pivots and becomes this
really scathing accusation against God and that means more
concludes. If we go back to this idea of
hassed and emunah, the 7th and final appearance of that pair of
words and of course 7 times is always very important number.
The word or key phrase is in verse 50 where it says ayeh
(02:35):
hassa de ha harishonim adonai nish batali davida emura tefa.
Where are your first loyalties to God, the ones that you swore
to David in your faithfulness? What happened to them?
And it's just it's it's. 180° from where we started.
Yeah, really. And, you know, it's just a
(02:56):
stunning pivot, so much so that when scholars read this news
more, they say, oh, the first part was written by one person.
The second part was tacked on. 2sections of Denise Mark really
seem so so different. I mean, it seems like, as many
practical do, that it must be taking us on a journey,
seemingly a sad journey here where things quickly fall apart.
(03:17):
So the question is what is the journey and what happens?
It's also actually feels somewhat blasphemous.
And the reason I say that is because, you know, the Ibanezra
in his introduction to this means more quotes someone
anonymously who he calls a haseen, this hassam misfarad,
right? It's very pious and very wise
person from Spain. We actually know who it is
(03:39):
because in in other places, so we we think we know it is
because in other places, I mean Ivan Ezra refers to this Hassan
Mizvad or this Basid Misfarad. Sometimes he mentions it by name
and it is the author of the Kuzari.
But here, of course, he knows him anonymously, but he quotes
him saying, he says, well, you know, I know this wise and pious
man from Spain who refused to say this Mizmoor, and not only
(04:02):
did. He refuse to.
Say this Mizmoor, but he refusedto hear the Mizmoor.
He wouldn't let anyone say it infront of which is really, I
think wild thing to say. I don't know any other chapter
in 10 off where you know, someone says, oh, no, no, I
won't say that. That's, you know, blast with it.
I. Mean maybe in 2025, but
certainly not in media perspective, definitely.
Not and even as of course he doesn't actually quote him and
(04:24):
agree with it, but the very factthat he quotes him suggests that
even as with this, it's an important point.
Things are being kind of thrown at God that are not comfortable
and and maybe even seem to crossover into forbidden
territory. I mean, personally, I don't
think that I think it's kind of crazy to say, oh, I'm not going
to say a chapter into that, but I understand the sentiment that
(04:47):
is behind it. And that's just, I think a way
of drawing our attention to how difficult the end of this
chapter is. But, you know, the serious
provocation here or accusation here that we have is really
serious. By the way, just as an aside,
that really speaks to the power and the emotional potency of the
Book of Tahilam as a whole. There's no other book of Tanas
(05:10):
where you could say something like that about something that
is so emotionally jarring. But of course, that's that's
where the power comes too. Right?
Yeah. I think you're right because it
want to be pulled into the emotions of anger at God and
accusation before God. OK, so I'm I'm sold.
Let's get into it. OK, So what is the first
section? I don't think it's just an
(05:32):
abstract journey. I think that there's something
very specific that's going on inthis news war from the very
beginning. What are we praising God for?
We're praising God for his loyalty and faithfulness to the
family of the, to the Davidic dynasty, to the promise of
eternal kingship. And so this promise that God
gives to David, he gives it to him in Schwalbett Peritzion in
(05:55):
the 7th chapter of the second book of Shmuel.
And there it's actually in the context of actually, I think a
lot of people view it as a negative context.
Right when David asks to build debate to meet Dash and Hashem
rejects his offer, kind of as a consolation prize says, but I
will establish your throne forever and your child, your son
Shlomo. So it's kind of like, by the
way, I'm also done making this promise to you that I'll
(06:18):
establish your Kingdom forever, even though I'm not giving you
what you want. Yeah, You know, I view it a
little bit differently. I view it not as a consolation
price, but actually is the reason he's explaining to Devi.
In other words, the reason that God says Devi can't build the
baits out of dash is because Demi brabin shafasa you you
still too much blood. And that seems to be a a kind of
a negative consequence. But that's actually not in his
(06:39):
the original in small bet. It's not mentioned at all and
basically doesn't give any reason other than the fact that
I don't need it. Right.
Yeah, He says, I mean it, But then he says something.
You know, I think that is very joyous for David because if you
look there, David responds to whatever it is a guy is telling
to be there. David says, wow, thank you,
(06:59):
Katonte. I can't believe you gave this to
me. I'm not worthy of it.
And he, he praised this wonderful prayer to God.
So I think that embedded within that refusal is both an
explanation and a promise, right?
The explanation, you can't buildthe Beethoven dash because your
kingship is still not stable enough.
(07:20):
I'm going to give you a forever dynasty.
And in the next generation, yourson will be born into stability
and he'll already build the Beethoven dash.
And David is blown away by this promise because it's part of the
promise. God says him look, even if
you're even if you're descendants sin, I will punish
you, but I will never take the kingship away from you like I
(07:40):
did with. Right.
And and that would mean quite a lot for David.
Most of his adult life was beingthreatened by enemies, his
kingship being threatened by rebellions of one sort or
another. And that that actually would
continue even after this story. You can imagine how much those
words probably continued to resonate and to be in his head
and to give him courage through everything that he would
(08:01):
continue to face. Yeah.
So I mean, as we progressed through the MIS marks, we really
see over and over and over direct references.
David very rarely appears in thebody of the Miz Marie Teeley,
maybe 5 or 6 Miz Marie Teeley where David appeared in the
body, right in the title. The superscription appears 73
out of 150 of them, right? So he describes here the
(08:23):
beginning of the Davidic dynastystarting in verse 21, Matati
David FDI found my servant David, which by the way is a
phrase that is also appears in in Chapter 7 God.
Refers to W as W my. Servant, my servant.
Yeah, I anointed him with ShemanKochi with my my holy oil I
share ya deep tikkon emo afzero E Tam senu right?
(08:45):
My arm will strengthen him lo yashi oyevo then avla Loya nenu
right? No enemy will be successful
against him. Verse 25 the Emulatinba sasti
emo my faithfulness, my loyalty will be with him Uvishmi Tarun
Karnell with my name. He will lift up his porn right
(09:07):
with some tiva Yamiya dove and Iwrote to him.
You know, and look at Pasokov Zion.
Verse 27 koi kraeni Avi ATA Eli bit sorry shwati he will call
me. You are my father, you are my
God. You are the rock of my
salvation, Afani before it's Nehu.
(09:28):
But I will make him my eldest son, Eliyon, all right.
He is the supreme of all of the kings in the land.
Right. I believe this is what Hashem
tells David is going to happen with Shlomo, right?
But he says that Shlomo is goingto carry on your legacy and is
going to build the victim. That's what you wanted to do.
He says Shlomo will call me Avi.That's right.
(09:49):
He'll call me my father. In Chapter 7, verse 14, God says
I will be for him as a father and He will be for me as the
Son. In verse 29, let olam eshmargot
Hasti forever. I mean these words, let olam la
ad olam meet Dora Ladora right from generation to generation
forever, and ever see a true promise that God is giving.
(10:11):
This divinity dynasty is so emphasized here, and it's so
emphasized back in Schwabe. And the only times that we're
in, the Olam forever comes up. But yeah, it seems like that's a
really key word here, this eternality editing note.
We did check afterwards and it too indeed comes up 7 times.
Yeah, and it's really going to be the key to understanding,
(10:31):
right what goes wrong in this chapter.
And by the way, this language ituses about establishing his hand
on the sea and crying with the sun and the moon, like all of
these things which are forever and other pregnant.
We did one recently. We talked about how, you know,
that the sea kind of is like thefirst thing that God creates.
And so for David to be compared to those, it's like, you know,
(10:51):
really this this grand statement.
Yeah, that imagery is very important in this chapter.
The the Shemesh, the Wrath, the sun, the moon and the sea become
these sort of symbols of the theeternality of the Davidic
dynasty. As long as this world exists, so
too will the Davidic dynasty. In verse 31 he addresses a
really important question, whichis OK, what happens when the
(11:15):
Davidic kings sin? This is a now in verse 31, if
your sons leave my instructions and they don't go in my
statutes, if they violate my laws and they don't guard my
commandments ulfat kadhi this shed it, I will punish them with
(11:39):
the rod and their transgressions.
I will punish with some kind of strike.
This has seen love here, maimo, but I won't take away my loyalty
to lo a shakur then will not seethat word.
I will not lie about my trustworthiness.
Lo a salil driti. I will not violate my covenant.
(12:02):
I will not change. One has come out of my mouth at
the end of verse 14, which we saw before, He says I will be
for my father and he will be forme.
A son, a share Bahavoto right the.
Same language. Yeah, right, he says.
Ever since talking now about theson, sons, as it were, I will
(12:24):
punish him with Chevron and Nigahi with a rod and with some
kind of plagues or strikes. This has steel Lo yes or me
menu. And here he's specifically
mentioned Shaul Kashir has the right name Shaul, but I won't
think away my loyalty right. And then in in Pasukte, Zionist
uses the word emunah, the Iman baitza.
So we have here in Chapter 7, the fessed and the emunah, the
(12:48):
loyalty and the faithfulness. And it's within the context of
the Davidic dynasty. And, and in Shmuel the, the
connection between this parent relationship between God and the
Davidic dynasty, it, it makes itclear that these punishments,
it's the punishment of a parent to a child.
It's out of love, right? OK, sometimes you have to bring
out the rod. Sometimes you have to, you have
(13:09):
to be strict, but like, it's allout of love.
I'm, I'm never going to abandon him.
I meant what I said that I'm going to be faithful to his
dynasty. His sins from the Davidic
dynasty aren't enough to explainwhy a bad thing would happen to
them, why I should would abandoned them because I made it
very clear. Some promised that he might
punish them a little bit, but he's not going to bend in them.
Yeah, and the divinity dynasty won't fall.
(13:30):
That is being promised here. And if you look at the end of
the good part of this, this war,of this chapter of chapter 89,
the end is really powerful. It's really just hard, concrete
promise. Look in verse 36, afat Neshbati,
the Kochi. So what could go wrong?
(13:53):
What could possibly go wrong with this time of Providence?
To me, the context of this meansmore is so potent, it's so
powerful, and I think captures the end of the Davidic dynasty
at the end of the period of the Mugu Khan in, you know, 586 BCE,
not just Jerushalayim that is captured.
It's not just the Beitaamic Dash, the temple that is burned
(14:13):
to the ground. It's not just the end of
political autonomy in the land. The end of the Davidic dynasty
is almost incomprehensible violation of God's own promise.
And so this needs more, which isthe kind of almost climax of
Book 3, the last chapter of, youknow, Savor T Leem, I'll say for
(14:34):
the benefit of of the listeners,Savor T Leem is divided into 5
books, right? And each book has its own tenor.
And I think that there's kind ofalmost a trajectory, almost a
narrative that is going on in the book.
Book 3 is it it's a really toughbook, right?
It starts in chapter 73. It ends in 89.
It's the shortest book. I would say thank God, because
(14:57):
it's a book that is really filled with disaster.
It's a book of crisis. It's a book that we have two
chapters that talk about the destruction of the Baitami Dash.
We have a lot of questions that are kind of hurled towards God,
Adama Thai until when Lama Wan, it seems to be the sort of crash
(15:17):
that means dynasty of the book of king.
And here I think we have this really powerful indication of
how the people must have felt when the defeated dynasty is
destroyed. I mean, you know, the cow's sons
are killed. He's blinded and taken down into
chains to bubble, and there goesthe end of all of God's palaces.
(15:39):
After 400 plus years, who would have thought?
I mean, like, it's, you look back at our time, we're like,
OK, 400 years. But like, you know, think about
what, what would the world look like 400 years ago?
The colonies were just getting set up in America.
Israel was, you know, many hundreds of years from from
existing as a state. Like on the human time scale,
(16:00):
the Davidic dynasty had been around forever.
The people and this is I think probably part of what leads to
the disaster. The people felt quite immune in
in Jerusalem, right because theyhad the bait to me dash in their
midst, right. We have indications of this from
your Yahoo where your marrow says then don't walk around
saying, you know, but it's the temple of God, the temple of
(16:20):
God. If you bring if you turn God's
God's God's holy place into a den of thieves into a Maratha
carried scene, God will destroy it.
The people are very heavily relying on their conception, on
their preconceptions. And another of the sort of basic
(16:41):
assumption of the people is thatand they're not wrong, right?
God promised to be the eternal dynasty.
So it can't really end confidentand that kind of sense of
promise, it prevents people fromreally fixing themselves and
from repenting and behaving properly because we have no
(17:02):
promise. But it turns out that be true.
The last thing we said in verse in verse 38 was that you
established like the moon, a testimony in the sky forever and
then all of a sudden boom out ofnowhere.
Yeah, and it's very accusatory, right?
The first word of verse 39 is the atop.
(17:25):
We're turning to that. It's the atop.
And you got Zanastavatim us, right?
You rejected and repelled us right about that.
He met Mishifsa, you became angry with your own anointed
one. They are the breed of death.
And you spurned the covenant of your servant.
The word Neyarta appears only into places, which is here, and
(17:47):
the other is in where it's talking about the destruction of
the Beethoven. Yes, as a bird, right?
You spurn the covenant, you spread powder that you made see
in love the all right. It's nice, Roche.
You profaned his crown by throwing it out of the ground.
How rats that coked in Rotav. You broke through all of his
(18:08):
gates, all of his walls. The word parrotsta that you
broke through, it's, it's the same word that David's great,
great, great great grandfather parrots was, was named after the
one who is kind of considered tobe the father of the Davidic
dynasty. You abandoned the children of
pirates who you promised the dynasty to.
Yeah, that's part of the the story.
(18:29):
Maybe we'll skip ahead to verse 45.
He's got the Mitoharo. All of this is our descriptions
of the destruction of Jerusalem,right?
You stopped him from his purity.This he saw that great throne,
La Aritz Garter drew it to the ground.
No longer in heaven, no longer like the heavens, right.
You cast it to the ground and now look at the next verse.
(18:51):
Hey, Sarta Yumei Alumov, you shortened the days of eternity
with it's like little synthesismhere, right?
You promised eternity. Suddenly eternity became
shorter. The big dynasty crashed, right?
We saw this verse already, but it's worth rereading it.
Where they turn to God and say, where did the promise?
(19:17):
You promise? I mean, it ends with the
question, this needs more. And that's the end of book
three. We end book three with a sense
of we are confounded by what hashappened.
And it's so powerful because thebeginning of this, it's not
written, as you know, I used to think that God was going to make
this promise or it's nothing. God, you know, Once Upon a time
(19:38):
you made this promise. It's talking about that promise
as if it's true and it's being fulfilled right now.
Clusty Hashem olam ashira forever.
I will sing it. And it's almost like as if it's
oblivious to what's about to come.
And then when the disaster does come, and when Hashem does
destroy the Davidic dynasty, it's like you feel that sense of
(19:58):
shock as you're reading it. It recreates that that
experience of what they must have felt at the time, which is
just utter shock and confusion. It's extraordinary.
So where do we go from here? What do?
You make of. That what do we do with it to to
a large degree I have sort of adopted today to see a kind of a
(20:22):
movement in Saber tieling if it really was developed in academic
circles and has been spreading also I think to circles of the
baby drash. Particularly I'll mention my
neighbor and teacher in this regard, Dr. Benny Gusentite, who
has done tremendous work lookingat safer Teeling in the way that
I'm about to describe, which is to see safer Teeling not as an
(20:43):
anthology of 150 separate instinct with right Teeling A
trajectory which tells the storyof Jewish history and
particularly biblical history. Book 3 seems to be, we've
mentioned before the book of crisis, of everything coming
crashing down, of the big time, Mcdash being destroyed, of the
(21:03):
loss of the Divinity Dynasty, which may be the most direct
kind of question that we have inthe aftermath of the destruction
because the promise was so explicit and that promise was so
explicitly violated. But you know, to really
understand this, we need to turnto the 4th book.
Right. So what is the fourth book?
So the first thing that we have to say is that suddenly in the
(21:24):
4th book we have a new player, right?
We have somebody who is not partof safe routinely even.
Who's that? Moshe.
Moses. Right so that look Moshev's name
appears 8 times in sacred to healing until this point he
appeared once OK in book four heappears a key 7 times and we
have a tradition right. Let me that Hazal tell us that
(21:47):
the 1st 11 means Lori of book four were written by Moshev.
Why Moshev is point so. So what I want to suggest is we
have what's called Torat Moshev,the five Books of Moshev, which
ends with Moshe's last words to Anisarel Ashrafka Isarel meets
Hamilka. I'm noshada Hashem fortunate.
(22:09):
Are you Israel, who is like you,a nation that is saved by God.
That's the end of the Five Booksof Moshe.
And what sort of continues this,according to Amy Drash, Amy
Drash Chalim Alif is are the five books of Davis which open
with Ashrae, right. And so and we have these.
Two praiseworthy are is the man who feels got excited.
(22:30):
Yeah, right. It's the same word, right?
So that there's some kind of connection between where Moshe
left off and Davi takes that. So I want to suggest there's
Torat Moshe is the Torah of movement.
It's the Torah of exile. It's the portable Torah.
It doesn't mean we only have it in exile.
We also use it when we're not inexile, but then it's all we have
(22:50):
when we are in flux. It's the Torah that we can take
with us wherever we go. Torah David is the Torah of
settlement. It's the Torah of political
autonomy. It's the Torah of building a
nation. It's the Torah of building the
Bata Dash. It's the Torah of creating a
dynasty and stability and establishing something.
And that's not Torah that we take with us when we go into
(23:13):
exile. And so as soon as Book 3 end, we
turn to the Torah of Moshe. And we've looked in Torah of
Moshe to give us the tools for being able to survive in exile.
And, and I'll talk about two tools.
There's a lot to talk about, butin these first 11 means Mari
Tilian, which which which has out a tribute to Moshe.
(23:35):
There are two major themes that I think that we have to pay
attention to. And you know, these are familiar
with Mari Tilian because we say them in Kabbalah Shabbat.
Yeah, Hashem mala. The fact that we don't have
right now human kingship, the fact that we don't have
political autonomy does not leave us without any recourse.
It doesn't leave us flailing. Doesn't leave us without a king.
(23:58):
Doesn't leave us without a king.So we have it over and over.
Hashem my last gate lavish. We have Hashem, my last to Gil
Harris, right. Versus that mention God's Cajun.
And one of the things that we know about God's Cajun, but then
it's mentioned over and over in these chapters is that it is
definitely eternal. Yeah.
Right. The words that we used to talk
about David's kingship, before which we thought were eternal
(24:20):
for God's thinks of it, really is true.
Right your your throne is established from eternity.
You are from eternity. So OK, we can wait for the re
establishment of the Davidic dynasty if we know that God the
king has promised us that the Davidic dynasty will be eternal
and will renew itself. So that's one really important
(24:41):
theme that can help us through this next period.
The other one is even more amazing, I think, which is the
we lost a person and we're not we've lost a sense of God's
reliability, his steadfastness, the reliability of his promises,
his loyalties to us. And if you look in study bed,
(25:02):
we're we're beginning to reacquire it right.
Togo Hashem was a nourishing file young.
It's good to praise God. Why bullshit is teaching us to
speak of God's faithfulness in the morning, his worthiness at
night and if you look at the endof this series that Hazel teach
(25:24):
us what was written by God. The dairy last verse in chapter
100 in this marku is what we sayevery day.
He told Hashem, melano pastel, the ador vador and winota right?
God is good. His royalty is forever from
generation to generation. We have his steadfastness, his
(25:46):
reliability. Book three, I mentioned it's a
really, really hard book. It it like it just leaves your
ears ringing with these questions and this, you know,
kind of theological instability.I would call book 4A book of
exile, right? And and there are a lot of these
were in here that don't even have titles, right.
(26:06):
Scholars call an orphaned factors, right.
There's a sense that we've been orphaned.
Right. And it's not Even so much an
answer to the questions that we just raised in our Miss Marr,
but just no, no, an alternative way of of looking at things.
It's a different vantage point. Or maybe the?
Tools. The tools survive.
And you know, since we're talking about this, we can't
(26:26):
really end without saying where this takes us because the very
end of book 4, it ends up with aprayer where we are clearly in
exile. So if we look at the end of one
O 6 which is really the end of book 14 T Lean Hoshi save us God
right in verse 47 and gather us up from the nation to praise
(26:52):
your name. And of course, how does Book
Live Open opens with the fulfillment of?
That. And of course, Book 5 is the
Book of Redemption. That whole beginning of Book 5
is it's only say on it talks about like this amazing
(27:17):
redemption and yeah. When I first started seeing T
leaning this way, you know, through the eyes of of of
scholars, as I mentioned after Benny Gazette showed me this,
(27:37):
this midrash and it's a midrash in means more Gimmel the 3rd
chapter and Midrash says, is there any order to this, to the
to this book? And and then it goes off in a
tangent and says, well, you know, can I ask the same thing
about the books of the Torah? Is the order books of the Torah?
The Majora says there is an order and God knows the order,
but he's keeping that order fromus because if he would show that
(28:01):
order to us, we would be able todo great miracles, including the
Atom 80, the revival of the dead.
Well. Wild Majora.
Then it comes back to the Book of Tili and it said, how about
the Book of Tili and it brings us, I think brings us the
revolt, right review Chauvin Levi and it says became Chauvin
Levi Leah said ETA sefer azep. I'll see Drew.
(28:23):
I don't remember the exact phrasing.
Right review Chau lady wanted tofind order in the book and a
backhoe comes out of heavens, right.
A voice comes out of heavens andtest him Unpaffiti ET ayashe.
Don't break the dead, right Do it.
You're going to wake the dead. And then the Madrasco Zam says
Rabishna al also tried to to find the order of sacred
(28:45):
healing, but he did it at least in a Rambo, like he did it in a
a safe setting. And then he said when he
finished seeing the order, he quoted chapter 110.
And he said he says everything here is juxtaposed perfectly
with truth, with with with unbelievable integrity.
(29:09):
He did tramate him, right? He he revived the dead.
When is the revival of the dead?It's the ability to take this
desiccated nation right, which is dry bones right, in exile,
and to revive them, animate the nation as a creative nation that
has political autonomy and can fulfill the purpose for which it
(29:32):
was created. That came to me.
Team right? The second-half of the book
itself. We are pretty privileged today
to be able to begin to see what Rabbi Ishmael, I think saw and,
and, and partially because we'reliving in it.
And and when you live in it, youknow, maybe maybe the Midrash
was was trying to say even you're in a period in history
where you have responsibilities and obligations.
(29:55):
Word that history, Yeah, like wefind ourselves today in Israel.
So then, you know, I think you have the obligation also to see
it. The dead has been revived, so
we're allowed to talk about it. We're allowed to say not every
aspect of family team, but the national one, the one we that we
that we see every day and that'sright, that God will will make
(30:16):
you know salvation, be flourish and be reborn.
Wow, Doctor Ziegler, this has been beautiful and amazing.
It's getting me so excited to really delve more into the the
second two books, especially this last book.
So that'll have to be next on the docket.
Thank you so much for coming outand joining us, enlightening us.
This has really been wonderful. Pleasure.
Thank you for inviting me. And that's the Hut.
Welcome to Tehillim Unveiled. This is Ari Leviston and it is a
huge honor to welcome Doctor Yael Ziegler, one of the
preeminent voices in the world of modern Tanak study.
She teaches at Matan as well as Hertzog College, and she's the
director of the Kitvuni Women's Writing Fellowship at Matan.
(00:23):
A beloved educator and sought after speaker, she has taught
audiences across 5 continents and is the acclaimed author of
several foundational works, including books on Ruth,
lamentations, and Oats in the Biblical narrative.
Dr. Ziegler, it's a huge honor to have you thank.
You thank you for having. Me today.
So Doctor Ziegler, you told me you wanted to talk about till
(00:44):
I'm 89 pay tech. And at first I was a little
surprised because it's one that I'm not particularly familiar
with, although there are a few lines that are quoted in various
songs or parts of davening. I guess the third longest by
verse is more in the entire bookof Tehillim.
But you promised me that it's well worth studying.
So what can we expect in this long?
(01:06):
Bismar here, yeah. So I mean, first of all, I think
what's interesting about the mismar is that it starts out so
wonderfully. Haste Hashem, O Lama Shira,
right? I will always sing of the haste
Hashem. Most people, I think, would
translate that. The kindnesses of God.
I'm going to go with what I think is the primary meaning of
has said into last, which I think is loyalty, right?
Always sing of the loyalties of God, Lidor vador odia emunatska
(01:30):
defeat from generation to generation.
I will tell of your faithfulnessin my mouth.
He over and over mentioned this pair of words, kassed the
emunah, which basically mean thesame thing, right?
If kassed means loyalty and emunah means faithfulness.
So we are singing to God of God's loyalty and faithfulness.
(01:50):
For what is striking about the Mizwah is what happens after
verse 38, right? So verse 38, you know, kind of
ends with this sella, which we don't exactly know what it is,
but it appears throughout safer T leem as some kind of, you
know, end some kind of period atthe end of the sentence.
It might be immune. Heartbreak.
Something right? So we have this sella and
(02:11):
suddenly in verse 39 the means more pivots and becomes this
really scathing accusation against God and that means more
concludes. If we go back to this idea of
hassed and emunah, the 7th and final appearance of that pair of
words and of course 7 times is always very important number.
The word or key phrase is in verse 50 where it says ayeh
(02:35):
hassa de ha harishonim adonai nish batali davida emura tefa.
Where are your first loyalties to God, the ones that you swore
to David in your faithfulness? What happened to them?
And it's just it's it's. 180° from where we started.
Yeah, really. And, you know, it's just a
(02:56):
stunning pivot, so much so that when scholars read this news
more, they say, oh, the first part was written by one person.
The second part was tacked on. 2sections of Denise Mark really
seem so so different. I mean, it seems like, as many
practical do, that it must be taking us on a journey,
seemingly a sad journey here where things quickly fall apart.
(03:17):
So the question is what is the journey and what happens?
It's also actually feels somewhat blasphemous.
And the reason I say that is because, you know, the Ibanezra
in his introduction to this means more quotes someone
anonymously who he calls a haseen, this hassam misfarad,
right? It's very pious and very wise
person from Spain. We actually know who it is
(03:39):
because in in other places, so we we think we know it is
because in other places, I mean Ivan Ezra refers to this Hassan
Mizvad or this Basid Misfarad. Sometimes he mentions it by name
and it is the author of the Kuzari.
But here, of course, he knows him anonymously, but he quotes
him saying, he says, well, you know, I know this wise and pious
man from Spain who refused to say this Mizmoor, and not only
(04:02):
did. He refuse to.
Say this Mizmoor, but he refusedto hear the Mizmoor.
He wouldn't let anyone say it infront of which is really, I
think wild thing to say. I don't know any other chapter
in 10 off where you know, someone says, oh, no, no, I
won't say that. That's, you know, blast with it.
I. Mean maybe in 2025, but
certainly not in media perspective, definitely.
Not and even as of course he doesn't actually quote him and
(04:24):
agree with it, but the very factthat he quotes him suggests that
even as with this, it's an important point.
Things are being kind of thrown at God that are not comfortable
and and maybe even seem to crossover into forbidden
territory. I mean, personally, I don't
think that I think it's kind of crazy to say, oh, I'm not going
to say a chapter into that, but I understand the sentiment that
(04:47):
is behind it. And that's just, I think a way
of drawing our attention to how difficult the end of this
chapter is. But, you know, the serious
provocation here or accusation here that we have is really
serious. By the way, just as an aside,
that really speaks to the power and the emotional potency of the
Book of Tahilam as a whole. There's no other book of Tanas
(05:10):
where you could say something like that about something that
is so emotionally jarring. But of course, that's that's
where the power comes too. Right?
Yeah. I think you're right because it
want to be pulled into the emotions of anger at God and
accusation before God. OK, so I'm I'm sold.
Let's get into it. OK, So what is the first
section? I don't think it's just an
(05:32):
abstract journey. I think that there's something
very specific that's going on inthis news war from the very
beginning. What are we praising God for?
We're praising God for his loyalty and faithfulness to the
family of the, to the Davidic dynasty, to the promise of
eternal kingship. And so this promise that God
gives to David, he gives it to him in Schwalbett Peritzion in
(05:55):
the 7th chapter of the second book of Shmuel.
And there it's actually in the context of actually, I think a
lot of people view it as a negative context.
Right when David asks to build debate to meet Dash and Hashem
rejects his offer, kind of as a consolation prize says, but I
will establish your throne forever and your child, your son
Shlomo. So it's kind of like, by the
way, I'm also done making this promise to you that I'll
(06:18):
establish your Kingdom forever, even though I'm not giving you
what you want. Yeah, You know, I view it a
little bit differently. I view it not as a consolation
price, but actually is the reason he's explaining to Devi.
In other words, the reason that God says Devi can't build the
baits out of dash is because Demi brabin shafasa you you
still too much blood. And that seems to be a a kind of
a negative consequence. But that's actually not in his
(06:39):
the original in small bet. It's not mentioned at all and
basically doesn't give any reason other than the fact that
I don't need it. Right.
Yeah, He says, I mean it, But then he says something.
You know, I think that is very joyous for David because if you
look there, David responds to whatever it is a guy is telling
to be there. David says, wow, thank you,
(06:59):
Katonte. I can't believe you gave this to
me. I'm not worthy of it.
And he, he praised this wonderful prayer to God.
So I think that embedded within that refusal is both an
explanation and a promise, right?
The explanation, you can't buildthe Beethoven dash because your
kingship is still not stable enough.
(07:20):
I'm going to give you a forever dynasty.
And in the next generation, yourson will be born into stability
and he'll already build the Beethoven dash.
And David is blown away by this promise because it's part of the
promise. God says him look, even if
you're even if you're descendants sin, I will punish
you, but I will never take the kingship away from you like I
(07:40):
did with. Right.
And and that would mean quite a lot for David.
Most of his adult life was beingthreatened by enemies, his
kingship being threatened by rebellions of one sort or
another. And that that actually would
continue even after this story. You can imagine how much those
words probably continued to resonate and to be in his head
and to give him courage through everything that he would
(08:01):
continue to face. Yeah.
So I mean, as we progressed through the MIS marks, we really
see over and over and over direct references.
David very rarely appears in thebody of the Miz Marie Teeley,
maybe 5 or 6 Miz Marie Teeley where David appeared in the
body, right in the title. The superscription appears 73
out of 150 of them, right? So he describes here the
(08:23):
beginning of the Davidic dynastystarting in verse 21, Matati
David FDI found my servant David, which by the way is a
phrase that is also appears in in Chapter 7 God.
Refers to W as W my. Servant, my servant.
Yeah, I anointed him with ShemanKochi with my my holy oil I
share ya deep tikkon emo afzero E Tam senu right?
(08:45):
My arm will strengthen him lo yashi oyevo then avla Loya nenu
right? No enemy will be successful
against him. Verse 25 the Emulatinba sasti
emo my faithfulness, my loyalty will be with him Uvishmi Tarun
Karnell with my name. He will lift up his porn right
(09:07):
with some tiva Yamiya dove and Iwrote to him.
You know, and look at Pasokov Zion.
Verse 27 koi kraeni Avi ATA Eli bit sorry shwati he will call
me. You are my father, you are my
God. You are the rock of my
salvation, Afani before it's Nehu.
(09:28):
But I will make him my eldest son, Eliyon, all right.
He is the supreme of all of the kings in the land.
Right. I believe this is what Hashem
tells David is going to happen with Shlomo, right?
But he says that Shlomo is goingto carry on your legacy and is
going to build the victim. That's what you wanted to do.
He says Shlomo will call me Avi.That's right.
(09:49):
He'll call me my father. In Chapter 7, verse 14, God says
I will be for him as a father and He will be for me as the
Son. In verse 29, let olam eshmargot
Hasti forever. I mean these words, let olam la
ad olam meet Dora Ladora right from generation to generation
forever, and ever see a true promise that God is giving.
(10:11):
This divinity dynasty is so emphasized here, and it's so
emphasized back in Schwabe. And the only times that we're
in, the Olam forever comes up. But yeah, it seems like that's a
really key word here, this eternality editing note.
We did check afterwards and it too indeed comes up 7 times.
Yeah, and it's really going to be the key to understanding,
(10:31):
right what goes wrong in this chapter.
And by the way, this language ituses about establishing his hand
on the sea and crying with the sun and the moon, like all of
these things which are forever and other pregnant.
We did one recently. We talked about how, you know,
that the sea kind of is like thefirst thing that God creates.
And so for David to be compared to those, it's like, you know,
(10:51):
really this this grand statement.
Yeah, that imagery is very important in this chapter.
The the Shemesh, the Wrath, the sun, the moon and the sea become
these sort of symbols of the theeternality of the Davidic
dynasty. As long as this world exists, so
too will the Davidic dynasty. In verse 31 he addresses a
really important question, whichis OK, what happens when the
(11:15):
Davidic kings sin? This is a now in verse 31, if
your sons leave my instructions and they don't go in my
statutes, if they violate my laws and they don't guard my
commandments ulfat kadhi this shed it, I will punish them with
(11:39):
the rod and their transgressions.
I will punish with some kind of strike.
This has seen love here, maimo, but I won't take away my loyalty
to lo a shakur then will not seethat word.
I will not lie about my trustworthiness.
Lo a salil driti. I will not violate my covenant.
(12:02):
I will not change. One has come out of my mouth at
the end of verse 14, which we saw before, He says I will be
for my father and he will be forme.
A son, a share Bahavoto right the.
Same language. Yeah, right, he says.
Ever since talking now about theson, sons, as it were, I will
(12:24):
punish him with Chevron and Nigahi with a rod and with some
kind of plagues or strikes. This has steel Lo yes or me
menu. And here he's specifically
mentioned Shaul Kashir has the right name Shaul, but I won't
think away my loyalty right. And then in in Pasukte, Zionist
uses the word emunah, the Iman baitza.
So we have here in Chapter 7, the fessed and the emunah, the
(12:48):
loyalty and the faithfulness. And it's within the context of
the Davidic dynasty. And, and in Shmuel the, the
connection between this parent relationship between God and the
Davidic dynasty, it, it makes itclear that these punishments,
it's the punishment of a parent to a child.
It's out of love, right? OK, sometimes you have to bring
out the rod. Sometimes you have to, you have
(13:09):
to be strict, but like, it's allout of love.
I'm, I'm never going to abandon him.
I meant what I said that I'm going to be faithful to his
dynasty. His sins from the Davidic
dynasty aren't enough to explainwhy a bad thing would happen to
them, why I should would abandoned them because I made it
very clear. Some promised that he might
punish them a little bit, but he's not going to bend in them.
Yeah, and the divinity dynasty won't fall.
(13:30):
That is being promised here. And if you look at the end of
the good part of this, this war,of this chapter of chapter 89,
the end is really powerful. It's really just hard, concrete
promise. Look in verse 36, afat Neshbati,
the Kochi. So what could go wrong?
(13:53):
What could possibly go wrong with this time of Providence?
To me, the context of this meansmore is so potent, it's so
powerful, and I think captures the end of the Davidic dynasty
at the end of the period of the Mugu Khan in, you know, 586 BCE,
not just Jerushalayim that is captured.
It's not just the Beitaamic Dash, the temple that is burned
(14:13):
to the ground. It's not just the end of
political autonomy in the land. The end of the Davidic dynasty
is almost incomprehensible violation of God's own promise.
And so this needs more, which isthe kind of almost climax of
Book 3, the last chapter of, youknow, Savor T Leem, I'll say for
(14:34):
the benefit of of the listeners,Savor T Leem is divided into 5
books, right? And each book has its own tenor.
And I think that there's kind ofalmost a trajectory, almost a
narrative that is going on in the book.
Book 3 is it it's a really toughbook, right?
It starts in chapter 73. It ends in 89.
It's the shortest book. I would say thank God, because
(14:57):
it's a book that is really filled with disaster.
It's a book of crisis. It's a book that we have two
chapters that talk about the destruction of the Baitami Dash.
We have a lot of questions that are kind of hurled towards God,
Adama Thai until when Lama Wan, it seems to be the sort of crash
(15:17):
that means dynasty of the book of king.
And here I think we have this really powerful indication of
how the people must have felt when the defeated dynasty is
destroyed. I mean, you know, the cow's sons
are killed. He's blinded and taken down into
chains to bubble, and there goesthe end of all of God's palaces.
(15:39):
After 400 plus years, who would have thought?
I mean, like, it's, you look back at our time, we're like,
OK, 400 years. But like, you know, think about
what, what would the world look like 400 years ago?
The colonies were just getting set up in America.
Israel was, you know, many hundreds of years from from
existing as a state. Like on the human time scale,
(16:00):
the Davidic dynasty had been around forever.
The people and this is I think probably part of what leads to
the disaster. The people felt quite immune in
in Jerusalem, right because theyhad the bait to me dash in their
midst, right. We have indications of this from
your Yahoo where your marrow says then don't walk around
saying, you know, but it's the temple of God, the temple of
(16:20):
God. If you bring if you turn God's
God's God's holy place into a den of thieves into a Maratha
carried scene, God will destroy it.
The people are very heavily relying on their conception, on
their preconceptions. And another of the sort of basic
(16:41):
assumption of the people is thatand they're not wrong, right?
God promised to be the eternal dynasty.
So it can't really end confidentand that kind of sense of
promise, it prevents people fromreally fixing themselves and
from repenting and behaving properly because we have no
(17:02):
promise. But it turns out that be true.
The last thing we said in verse in verse 38 was that you
established like the moon, a testimony in the sky forever and
then all of a sudden boom out ofnowhere.
Yeah, and it's very accusatory, right?
The first word of verse 39 is the atop.
(17:25):
We're turning to that. It's the atop.
And you got Zanastavatim us, right?
You rejected and repelled us right about that.
He met Mishifsa, you became angry with your own anointed
one. They are the breed of death.
And you spurned the covenant of your servant.
The word Neyarta appears only into places, which is here, and
(17:47):
the other is in where it's talking about the destruction of
the Beethoven. Yes, as a bird, right?
You spurn the covenant, you spread powder that you made see
in love the all right. It's nice, Roche.
You profaned his crown by throwing it out of the ground.
How rats that coked in Rotav. You broke through all of his
(18:08):
gates, all of his walls. The word parrotsta that you
broke through, it's, it's the same word that David's great,
great, great great grandfather parrots was, was named after the
one who is kind of considered tobe the father of the Davidic
dynasty. You abandoned the children of
pirates who you promised the dynasty to.
Yeah, that's part of the the story.
(18:29):
Maybe we'll skip ahead to verse 45.
He's got the Mitoharo. All of this is our descriptions
of the destruction of Jerusalem,right?
You stopped him from his purity.This he saw that great throne,
La Aritz Garter drew it to the ground.
No longer in heaven, no longer like the heavens, right.
You cast it to the ground and now look at the next verse.
(18:51):
Hey, Sarta Yumei Alumov, you shortened the days of eternity
with it's like little synthesismhere, right?
You promised eternity. Suddenly eternity became
shorter. The big dynasty crashed, right?
We saw this verse already, but it's worth rereading it.
Where they turn to God and say, where did the promise?
(19:17):
You promise? I mean, it ends with the
question, this needs more. And that's the end of book
three. We end book three with a sense
of we are confounded by what hashappened.
And it's so powerful because thebeginning of this, it's not
written, as you know, I used to think that God was going to make
this promise or it's nothing. God, you know, Once Upon a time
(19:38):
you made this promise. It's talking about that promise
as if it's true and it's being fulfilled right now.
Clusty Hashem olam ashira forever.
I will sing it. And it's almost like as if it's
oblivious to what's about to come.
And then when the disaster does come, and when Hashem does
destroy the Davidic dynasty, it's like you feel that sense of
(19:58):
shock as you're reading it. It recreates that that
experience of what they must have felt at the time, which is
just utter shock and confusion. It's extraordinary.
So where do we go from here? What do?
You make of. That what do we do with it to to
a large degree I have sort of adopted today to see a kind of a
(20:22):
movement in Saber tieling if it really was developed in academic
circles and has been spreading also I think to circles of the
baby drash. Particularly I'll mention my
neighbor and teacher in this regard, Dr. Benny Gusentite, who
has done tremendous work lookingat safer Teeling in the way that
I'm about to describe, which is to see safer Teeling not as an
(20:43):
anthology of 150 separate instinct with right Teeling A
trajectory which tells the storyof Jewish history and
particularly biblical history. Book 3 seems to be, we've
mentioned before the book of crisis, of everything coming
crashing down, of the big time, Mcdash being destroyed, of the
(21:03):
loss of the Divinity Dynasty, which may be the most direct
kind of question that we have inthe aftermath of the destruction
because the promise was so explicit and that promise was so
explicitly violated. But you know, to really
understand this, we need to turnto the 4th book.
Right. So what is the fourth book?
So the first thing that we have to say is that suddenly in the
(21:24):
4th book we have a new player, right?
We have somebody who is not partof safe routinely even.
Who's that? Moshe.
Moses. Right so that look Moshev's name
appears 8 times in sacred to healing until this point he
appeared once OK in book four heappears a key 7 times and we
have a tradition right. Let me that Hazal tell us that
(21:47):
the 1st 11 means Lori of book four were written by Moshev.
Why Moshev is point so. So what I want to suggest is we
have what's called Torat Moshev,the five Books of Moshev, which
ends with Moshe's last words to Anisarel Ashrafka Isarel meets
Hamilka. I'm noshada Hashem fortunate.
(22:09):
Are you Israel, who is like you,a nation that is saved by God.
That's the end of the Five Booksof Moshe.
And what sort of continues this,according to Amy Drash, Amy
Drash Chalim Alif is are the five books of Davis which open
with Ashrae, right. And so and we have these.
Two praiseworthy are is the man who feels got excited.
(22:30):
Yeah, right. It's the same word, right?
So that there's some kind of connection between where Moshe
left off and Davi takes that. So I want to suggest there's
Torat Moshe is the Torah of movement.
It's the Torah of exile. It's the portable Torah.
It doesn't mean we only have it in exile.
We also use it when we're not inexile, but then it's all we have
(22:50):
when we are in flux. It's the Torah that we can take
with us wherever we go. Torah David is the Torah of
settlement. It's the Torah of political
autonomy. It's the Torah of building a
nation. It's the Torah of building the
Bata Dash. It's the Torah of creating a
dynasty and stability and establishing something.
And that's not Torah that we take with us when we go into
(23:13):
exile. And so as soon as Book 3 end, we
turn to the Torah of Moshe. And we've looked in Torah of
Moshe to give us the tools for being able to survive in exile.
And, and I'll talk about two tools.
There's a lot to talk about, butin these first 11 means Mari
Tilian, which which which has out a tribute to Moshe.
(23:35):
There are two major themes that I think that we have to pay
attention to. And you know, these are familiar
with Mari Tilian because we say them in Kabbalah Shabbat.
Yeah, Hashem mala. The fact that we don't have
right now human kingship, the fact that we don't have
political autonomy does not leave us without any recourse.
It doesn't leave us flailing. Doesn't leave us without a king.
(23:58):
Doesn't leave us without a king.So we have it over and over.
Hashem my last gate lavish. We have Hashem, my last to Gil
Harris, right. Versus that mention God's Cajun.
And one of the things that we know about God's Cajun, but then
it's mentioned over and over in these chapters is that it is
definitely eternal. Yeah.
Right. The words that we used to talk
about David's kingship, before which we thought were eternal
(24:20):
for God's thinks of it, really is true.
Right your your throne is established from eternity.
You are from eternity. So OK, we can wait for the re
establishment of the Davidic dynasty if we know that God the
king has promised us that the Davidic dynasty will be eternal
and will renew itself. So that's one really important
(24:41):
theme that can help us through this next period.
The other one is even more amazing, I think, which is the
we lost a person and we're not we've lost a sense of God's
reliability, his steadfastness, the reliability of his promises,
his loyalties to us. And if you look in study bed,
(25:02):
we're we're beginning to reacquire it right.
Togo Hashem was a nourishing file young.
It's good to praise God. Why bullshit is teaching us to
speak of God's faithfulness in the morning, his worthiness at
night and if you look at the endof this series that Hazel teach
(25:24):
us what was written by God. The dairy last verse in chapter
100 in this marku is what we sayevery day.
He told Hashem, melano pastel, the ador vador and winota right?
God is good. His royalty is forever from
generation to generation. We have his steadfastness, his
(25:46):
reliability. Book three, I mentioned it's a
really, really hard book. It it like it just leaves your
ears ringing with these questions and this, you know,
kind of theological instability.I would call book 4A book of
exile, right? And and there are a lot of these
were in here that don't even have titles, right.
(26:06):
Scholars call an orphaned factors, right.
There's a sense that we've been orphaned.
Right. And it's not Even so much an
answer to the questions that we just raised in our Miss Marr,
but just no, no, an alternative way of of looking at things.
It's a different vantage point. Or maybe the?
Tools. The tools survive.
And you know, since we're talking about this, we can't
(26:26):
really end without saying where this takes us because the very
end of book 4, it ends up with aprayer where we are clearly in
exile. So if we look at the end of one
O 6 which is really the end of book 14 T Lean Hoshi save us God
right in verse 47 and gather us up from the nation to praise
(26:52):
your name. And of course, how does Book
Live Open opens with the fulfillment of?
That. And of course, Book 5 is the
Book of Redemption. That whole beginning of Book 5
is it's only say on it talks about like this amazing
(27:17):
redemption and yeah. When I first started seeing T
leaning this way, you know, through the eyes of of of
scholars, as I mentioned after Benny Gazette showed me this,
(27:37):
this midrash and it's a midrash in means more Gimmel the 3rd
chapter and Midrash says, is there any order to this, to the
to this book? And and then it goes off in a
tangent and says, well, you know, can I ask the same thing
about the books of the Torah? Is the order books of the Torah?
The Majora says there is an order and God knows the order,
but he's keeping that order fromus because if he would show that
(28:01):
order to us, we would be able todo great miracles, including the
Atom 80, the revival of the dead.
Well. Wild Majora.
Then it comes back to the Book of Tili and it said, how about
the Book of Tili and it brings us, I think brings us the
revolt, right review Chauvin Levi and it says became Chauvin
Levi Leah said ETA sefer azep. I'll see Drew.
(28:23):
I don't remember the exact phrasing.
Right review Chau lady wanted tofind order in the book and a
backhoe comes out of heavens, right.
A voice comes out of heavens andtest him Unpaffiti ET ayashe.
Don't break the dead, right Do it.
You're going to wake the dead. And then the Madrasco Zam says
Rabishna al also tried to to find the order of sacred
(28:45):
healing, but he did it at least in a Rambo, like he did it in a
a safe setting. And then he said when he
finished seeing the order, he quoted chapter 110.
And he said he says everything here is juxtaposed perfectly
with truth, with with with unbelievable integrity.
(29:09):
He did tramate him, right? He he revived the dead.
When is the revival of the dead?It's the ability to take this
desiccated nation right, which is dry bones right, in exile,
and to revive them, animate the nation as a creative nation that
has political autonomy and can fulfill the purpose for which it
(29:32):
was created. That came to me.
Team right? The second-half of the book
itself. We are pretty privileged today
to be able to begin to see what Rabbi Ishmael, I think saw and,
and, and partially because we'reliving in it.
And and when you live in it, youknow, maybe maybe the Midrash
was was trying to say even you're in a period in history
where you have responsibilities and obligations.
(29:55):
Word that history, Yeah, like wefind ourselves today in Israel.
So then, you know, I think you have the obligation also to see
it. The dead has been revived, so
we're allowed to talk about it. We're allowed to say not every
aspect of family team, but the national one, the one we that we
that we see every day and that'sright, that God will will make
(30:16):
you know salvation, be flourish and be reborn.
Wow, Doctor Ziegler, this has been beautiful and amazing.
It's getting me so excited to really delve more into the the
second two books, especially this last book.
So that'll have to be next on the docket.
Thank you so much for coming outand joining us, enlightening us.
This has really been wonderful. Pleasure.
Thank you for inviting me. And that's the Hut.
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com