Ep. 341: Joker: Folie à Deux Breakdown

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What is up bros welcome to the all bros podcast I'm Caleb and I'm Jonathan and

(00:27):
We are a couple of bros on a mission to give you guys the most detailed movie reviews out there with as little bias as
Possible welcome to the all bros
This week on the podcast
We got a couple things in weekly watch that we're going to discuss most all of these are roses

(00:49):
I was a frickin lame-o this week and didn't end up watching shit. Hey, man. That was me last week. So it's all good
Yeah, I did. I've been watching so many shows though
Like a ridiculous amount of shows and then do you get worse like don't don't expect me to watch any movies for a hot minute

(01:09):
It was I need to catch up on
like I've been waiting for
The penguin to finish because I was just gonna binge all that in one go
Then I was gonna watch Agatha all along and so I needed to watch our
So I was gonna binge all that at one one go and I have a bunch of other shows

(01:30):
I'm trying to like just wait till they finish and then binge them all
respect it
Yeah, so
Like I said might be a hot minute before you hear shit from me. So
Just so you guys are aware
Hey, as long as you're watching something that's all that matters. Yeah
But yeah, so we'll get into that weekly watch here in a second and then we will be getting into our breakdown of Joker

(01:58):
fully I do
Which I have thoughts on I
Feel that we're gonna be different on this movie. Just I have a feeling you're giving
Do the face that you're giving
first
Spoiler alert first watch was gone
first watch was kind of rough

(02:19):
I'm excited for this one. Yeah, this is gonna be this is gonna be interesting
So with that let's say we get on into this let's do it. Hell. Yeah
Hello, my name is Brecker nurse and I want to tell you about my phone or movie podcast called autopsy for horror movie on my

(02:42):
Show I like to have fun dissecting out what makes a horror movie scary what worked for it?
What did it what types of fears us a playoff of is in an allegory for any sort of message?
I don't know but let's find out
Also, I like to watch slashers. I'm a big slasher guy
So I'll watch a slasher and do a kill grade for it
I will cover the kills and I will tell you how I would grade it based on shock method style points in a fourth

(03:06):
Category that is a reflection of the movie besides those I'll have fun with special topics
episodes commentary tracks interviews with guests including some shutter directors
So I just like to have a fun time over here
If any of this sounds interesting to you or you want to come check me out
Please head over to Spotify Apple podcast or anywhere they listen podcast and search for autopsy before a movie

(03:29):
Also, be sure to find me on Instagram at Brecker horror where you get fun updates and some cool little posts that I do
Thanks for listening and I hope that you get to enjoy the show and I'll see you on Instagram. Bye
All righty getting into this week's weekly watch
Like I said, the only person that ended up watching shit this week was Rose so

(03:49):
Rose would you like to tell everyone about what you watch this week would love to so for a very long time
People have been telling me that I need to check out terrifier the terrifier franchise
Like these movies are gory as hell if you love watching guts spilled
Watch these movies like art. The clown is a

(04:09):
He's a horror icon now, and I absolutely agree with everything that these people have said
Because holy shit, dude, are these movies?
freaking brutal
like oh my like
Imagine just a guy dressed as a clown literally cutting a girl
Cutting a girl in half all while sitting

(04:32):
Cutting a girl in half all while smiling while doing it
Just like laughing at what he's doing not saying anything like Arthur clown is is is is a mime
He doesn't say shit. All he does is facial expressions and stuff like that, but it's so messed up
Just watching him literally in the first one this first one
he has a girl chained up by her feet and literally goes from her, you know area and

(04:56):
Saw us down all the way down to her head. What the toss her right in half. Yeah, I
Mean dude, it just got it just kept getting like more effed up as not only this movie went on but when I got to the second
one
when I guess just take what I got one death and I'm just like

(05:20):
Like I literally didn't have a reaction because I'm just like, you know
People say that Michael Myers is messed up
Jason Freddy Chucky
Leather face. No, I think Arthur clown takes it
This is your magic freaking Michael Myers look at watching this movie and just being like Jesus

(05:43):
Literally I can imagine
Like I feel like the person that would be like even I'm not that effed up would be Freddy Krueger
Watching Arthur clown. Oh
My gosh, uh
Dude, I have been wondering
What the hell this character is from cuz I've seen him on like so many tick tocks and Instagram reels and YouTube shorts

(06:07):
Like I've seen him on freaking everything and I had no idea who the hell this guy was. Yeah
Now, you know art the clown from terrifier
Yeah, dude, apparently the the guy who plays him likes to go to comic cons and stuff dressed up as
Art the clown dude, like that makes me so happy because you can tell this guy's having the time of his life and

(06:31):
That makes me so happy because he does an amazing job like
He he truly has become a horror icon to me. And I mean, I've only seen the first two movies
I plan on checking out the third one in theaters this week and I'm really excited about it
but just like
You know talk about this first one
It it's the shortest out of all three because the other two are over two hours. This one's not even an hour and a half

(06:55):
And it's like yeah, and it's like a very like
Simplistic story that there's these two girls that are partying on Halloween
Art the clown starts following them and just terrorizes them all night and you know chaos ensues and shit gets going on
Chaos ensues and shit gets very very bloody

(07:15):
Like oh my god
And then other people are killed along the way
But just yeah this
What a way to start
me in this franchise and then it just got
Progressively like more effed up as not only this movie continued but as I got to the second one

(07:36):
so
Like personally, I feel like I mean I could be different with the third one
But for this first one and honestly the second one, I'm just gonna spoil it right now
I feel that they're both stream at movies
I don't think that you need to see these in theaters and honestly
I feel it'd be a lot more fun to see these at home because you can just watch these with a couple of buddies and

(07:58):
Just point out how
F'd up art the clown is for what he does to his victims
like oh
my god, dude, like I
There's one scene in the second one that is engraved in my head and will be until the day that I die
Oh my gosh, dude. How new are these movies?
So this one came out in 2018 the first one I think really

(08:22):
Yeah, it was either 2006 here in 2018 and then the second one came out in 2022. That is wild
Yeah, like I feel like I mean at least with the stuff I've been seeing of him lately
I honestly would have guessed that he was a newer character
Or at least newer than freaking 2018

(08:44):
Yeah, I mean I think cuz like the the first one was I mean definitely, you know a low-budget low-budget horror film
And compared to the second one. Yeah, the budget was definitely raised, but I think it took a little bit for people to
realize
Who art the clown was how honestly how cool of a horror character he is

(09:06):
And just kind of finally check out the first movie. It got its popularity
and I'm assuming that's what a
Convinced them to make not only a sequel but a third one
Horror movies like that. Like they definitely hit their stride when they come to streaming
Or it's yeah, it's true. Yeah when they're on digital and then yeah, and then the frickin cult decides to

(09:29):
jump on board and
Then yeah, so it doesn't surprise me at all that a character like this is is popular because I mean
From what I've seen of him like he's got it all he's got the silhouette. He's got the look up and from the sounds of it
He's got the frickin movie like
Gore and everything to back it up. So yep. I

(09:53):
Mean have at it aren't the clown. Yeah, do you freaking did you see the spirit Halloween animatronics?
I mean animatronic for him this year. No, it's so perfect. It's literally him
So in one hand he's holding the like bicycle belt that he uses in the second one
And then he's wearing those. Have you seen him wear those like flower sunglasses?

(10:13):
Yes, okay. So he's wearing those and then in his other hand
he's just waving and he just swerves back and forth and
presses the horn every couple of times and like it's it's so it's a simple
animatronic but like he looks amazing like cuz party city also did an animatronic of art this year and
Frickin the spirit one looks so much better

(10:36):
Like he actually like looks like he was just ripped off the screen. It's it's great
But yeah
so as for the first one like
Out of the two that I've seen so far because like I said, I haven't seen the third one
But I'm very excited to check it out
Because I've heard that there is a scene that like people actually had to walk out of at the beginning that because it was
Like so messed up. Yeah, dude. Oh, dude. These movies do not come to play

(11:01):
They don't mess around or they sorry they come play they don't mess around
So
So like go after I finished this one. I'm just like damn, okay, you know, like that was pretty messed up
You know, like there were some gory parts, but you know what?
I'm assuming that the second one's gonna be about the same. No, the second one just cranked it up to a hundred
Um, nice

(11:22):
Good lord
So yeah, so like you said it like I said first terrifying
Stream it
Easy stream it
It's it's it's a lot of fun. I had a good time
and
Yeah, like if you get a couple of your friends together watch this on a fun

(11:42):
on a
movie night that you're wanting to watch something a
Spooky horror movie. This is the perfect pick
And I would say the same thing with this with sequel terrifier 2
Which like I said is even more messed up
Because there is a scene where so he's killing this one girl in her bedroom

(12:05):
He looked I'm pretty sure I had to rewind because I'm just like did I just see him do that?
He literally cuts into her back starts
Like, you know cutting it out and then peels it back
While he's also yeah, and then while he's also like stabbing her in the front
I think or some shit like that, but dude, oh he gets so much worse. We we don't see him like

(12:27):
skin her
But her mom gets home. She comes up the stairs into her room and
Finds her daughter
Skinned on the bed like literally you can see her skeleton and she says
I can see her skeleton and she's still alive
She goes mom and arts just like laughing

(12:50):
He's just like looking at the mom pointing at the daughter just like literally laughing hysterical and I'm just like I am never gonna be okay
again after seeing that
See yeah, dude, it was so messed up
I'm sorry. I had to tell you detail

(13:12):
but
Holy balls, dude
Yeah, it's
Freaking the
What wouldn't yeah, I knew that this was going to be better than the first one or I knew it was gonna be a really good
sequel when the opening after because they talk about like how like the first one was like the

(13:33):
Whatever city they live in massacre because like literally this one takes place
I think just a couple like a year after the first one
and so, you know like the
The or yeah, I think it's a year or maybe actually it's um, no actually no

(13:53):
It's right after my bad. Yes. Yes, it's right after because literally the when we catch up with art
he is what he goes to a freaking laundromat and
literally you just see him like take off all of his bloody clothes and
Throw him in for a wash and like you see him just in his underwear and like an undershirt
And he's just sitting down and like reading the newspaper and just laughing and what he's reading. Oh

(14:19):
my gosh, I
I
Thought I knew what I was gonna watch this out holiday or this Halloween season. I
You might have made me second-guess myself dude, honestly I
Personally, I would not
Just because I would be worried about Iris walking in on you watching this

(14:42):
Oh, no, no, I I wouldn't watch something like this in in the family room. Oh, okay. This is something I'd watch outside. Oh
Okay. All right. Yeah under the the safety of
solid
Solitude, okay
well, I mean dude if you could I don't know if you can handle this much blood and guts like I I

(15:04):
Don't know if I could either like I will be watching something else now
If you thought dude if this this um, I feel laughs in the face of saw for how
Gory and shit dead serious, dude
like
These movies are they they want to show you as much blood

(15:26):
Body parts being cut up body parts being cut off as much as they can
Like they they earned that frickin our rating hell
This actually might be NC 17 and I would understand why Oh
That's frickin let's look it up just for shits and giggles
I think the third ones rated are but like I wouldn't be surprised if the second one was NC 17

(15:48):
Terrifier twos. Oh not rated. Oh
That explains it
That that tells me everything I need to know
There's like yeah, we knew we knew we weren't gonna get an R rating
So we didn't even bother sending it to the MPAA
Yeah
Something like that frickin intense dude hearing about it is frickin nuts

(16:11):
Like what's this guy also known for oh he was in oh he played uh
In
2016 and 17 I guess there was a
a night wing show
Like it does. Oh it looks fan-made
now I

(16:32):
Mean that it's not always bad
Yeah, but he he played Joker
Yeah, then this role was perfect for him
Yeah, cuz guy knows how to like do facial expressions to a tee
Like holy shit. Yeah, he played
Arthur clown was like his first like I'd say his first big

(16:58):
movie
movie
He did a couple voices in in a video game
He did an English voiceover first I'm assuming some Japanese anime yeah, yeah
Then
Yeah, so art the clown was his first big

(17:19):
Thing and then he did a couple like a podcast series that will
short or TV series for a
night wing
He was in Gotham and it was just like a couple little things here and there and then
terrifier 2
Then he was in the the mean one. Oh

(17:40):
So the yeah, so the Grinch
Like more movie that they made and he played the Grinch
Okay, that's perfect. Then well now I kind of want to watch it now actually
and then
Let's see
What is this?
What is

(18:01):
Kiss oh, it's just Pete Davidson
Okay, it looks kind of like it looks kind of like just like a filmed
podcast situation
huh
But he he played art the clown in that
Okay, and then he was in a movie called

(18:22):
stream
I never heard of that
Yeah
It just looks like another horror movie, but he was in that and then terrifier 3
And he's got a couple things in the in the works. Oh my gosh, he's in that

(18:44):
He's in that steamboat Willie horror movie
He's gonna be that one that comes out next year. It's called scream boat
Oh good lord, and he plays steamboat Willie. Oh
That is
Hilarious, that's awesome
Dude, I kind of want to watch that movie though the the steamboat will even yeah

(19:11):
Yeah, right
Maybe we'll do the mean one for for December dude. I am so down
No idea I think one that we've got to do since
We did the first one we got to do Winnie Winnie the Pooh blood and honey, too
Because like I've heard like I don't know. I heard it was so much better than the first one

(19:32):
But that's not saying a lot
I know when the bars on the ground like it's not hard to step over but they said that like this one is actually watchable
So I can't I kind of that's saying a lot
right
right shit, but I'm I I'd be very down for
For that. Okay, since we missed most of October we could just make December our horror month

(19:58):
Hey, we had some things come up. It's okay
true that
But yeah, like
Just I'm not gonna get into the details with the story because I don't want to spoil anything for people that haven't seen this
But like the like they're like some ways that they approach like the whole like it being a massacre the Syria him art being a serial

(20:18):
killer
the the brother sister thing where like the brother is like kind of obsessed with
Serial killers and he wants to go as art the clown for Halloween even though, you know, the massacre just happened a couple days ago
Which is like really really messed up
But yeah, just

(20:40):
I think this movie's maybe just a little too long. I don't think this really needed to be two hours
Maybe just cut it back a little bit
But it's just so messed up gory fun that
Not only want to say like it's fun
But like I feel bad saying that for like how gory this shit is and like how they're there like

(21:00):
The way that he kills people you're just like
No one should go out like that. Can't can't we just go back to they are just stabbed to death and it's like a quicker
A quicker death than being freakin just skinned alive
Yeah, like that dude the whole skinning alive thing

(21:21):
Has always terrified me dude like same here
But he literally so art has a he carries around a trash bag with like all these
tools that he uses
So, you know saws knives hammers
A bat with nails in it. Also, he art uses guns like he will literally use any weapon

(21:42):
Shit. Yeah, do arts are a killer without a real mo
Yep
Is he is he paranormal in any way? I think he is
But he never been anything like definitive about that because because the way that he comes back in the second one
Like it kind of has to be and then don't get me started on the end credit scene

(22:06):
For this one that leads into the third one because like oh my god literally. Okay, just because I like do you plan on ever watching these movies?
Honestly, I feel like you've piqued my interest enough where I'm I might
Okay, then i'm not gonna spoil the uh end credits in that because like i'm glad that I stayed

(22:26):
But or i'm glad that I kept watching because I didn't think that there was going to be one
um, but it's just like
So like what the fud is I did I just watch like
Why the fud did you set up the sequel like that that like my eyes burn from watching that?
Oh, no, like what's his name? Damien damien leone like

(22:50):
This guy knows how to write write effed up shit like good lord like
Bravo to you man my my good sir. Mr. Leone like
I didn't think that uh people uh could like bring new blood
um to the horror to the horror genre, but
You sir, you sir, you sir

(23:10):
um to the horror to the horror genre, but you sir have delivered that tenfold
Like wow, and dude and it's low budget, you know, they did freaking practical with that shit, too
Oh, yeah, it you can definitely tell that it's cool. I really appreciate
But also it's really gross

(23:31):
Yeah, I can imagine
I don't dude. I you know me
I do not quease in horror movies like blood guts spilling that doesn't that that doesn't get me
The scene where that girl is skinned alive and you see the scene with her mom coming in that scene almost got me
That that almost got me. Oh man

(23:53):
I don't know. I
I am going to think twice before I turn this on
But uh
You know what we should do?
Is we should just the next time i'm out there
We should just have a marathon of all three of these of all three. I would be down for that. Okay

(24:13):
Maybe we should do that
Maybe we should both be in the room for watching these together
Yeah
I I would be way more down for that
trying to watch these on my own
that's good, dude, that's completely fair because
Throughout both of them, especially the second one. I'm just like what the fuck am I watching?
dude

(24:35):
briel
claims that she loves
gory movies
I I this kind of makes me want to be like
You want to bet?
You sure about that?
Like just just to test her just be like
Let's see
Oh, yeah, dude. This is like the perfect duster

(24:57):
Man, and then what were you what were you giving this one?
Oh this this one's a stream as well
Um, like don't get me wrong. Both of these movies are so much fun. I had a great time with both
But I feel that they're more fun enjoyed at home
with some friends just having a fun movie night together and just
Enjoying art the clown just mutilate a bunch of people

(25:19):
fair enough
Fair enough. Holy shit
But yeah, that's all I got for weekly watch and I am super excited to watch the third one. At least I think I am
It's always a good time when you're unsure
It's like hell I could be could not be like it's I guess we'll find out yeah it says up in the air is everything else

(25:43):
on
Shit
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was like wait you're leading this episode. I forgot
uh, but yeah
So anyway without further ado, uh, let's move on to this week's breakdown
Let's do it. Hell, yeah
So

(26:21):
Alrighty like we said we will be breaking down joker folly ado
to uh this week
so
Yeah
If you are new to our breakdown system, can you tell how excited I am about this one? I'm super excited, dude
I'm pumped for the conversation. The movie itself was

(26:43):
Matt at best. I'm very interested because okay, so caleb's only seen this movie once i've seen it twice
I'm very interested to see how you feel on a second watch, you know, once it comes to streaming and everything
Yeah, i'm very interested
Yeah, we'll we'll see yeah, so
Yeah, uh
Like I said, if you're new to our breakdown system
We have split movies into eight different categories that we individually score to come to a final

(27:09):
All bros letter grade the eight categories that we score our story
writing
acting
character development
effects
Music costumes and then we give it our own personal score at the very end
All of those numbers get magically added up and spit through our algorithm and give us a little bit of a
Algorithm and give us a letter grade to compare this movie to others of a similar grade

(27:34):
um
So if you have not seen joker fully I do
We are going to be spoiling it for you
so
rose is going to be completely ruining this movie if you have not seen it, so
Which judging by the box office a lot of people haven't

(27:54):
Yeah
just
Personally, that kills me. You're fine
But I know rose probably has a different mindset on no, I think you should go see it
Yeah, so
Yeah, so with that, uh, we will be posting that spoiler warning
Now and if you choose to listen beyond this point and anything's ruined for you

(28:18):
Sorry
Yeah, the joke's on you
Yeah, uh
So with that we will get into our favorite segment that we like to call reading with rose
all right
So in an animated sequence
The joker is impersonated by his shadow who takes his place to perform his singing number for a tv show

(28:41):
And then abandons him on stage before three policemen arrive and beat him
Sorry, i'm still trying to figure this part out
Oh never mind as you were
Okay
All right
Arthur fleck is in custody at arkham state hospital awaiting trial for the crimes. He committed two years prior
His lawyer maryann stewart plans to argue that arthur has dis

(29:05):
Dissociative identity disorder disorder. Oh my god
Excuse me disorder and his joker personality
Is responsible for the crimes at a music therapy session arthur meets harleen lee quinzel
Lee confides to arthur that she grew up in the same neighborhood
He did had an abusive father who died in a car crash and was committed after burning down her parents apartment building

(29:29):
Lee also expresses her admiration for the joker's crimes and personality
During
During a film screening of the bandwagon lee starts a fire
She and arthur are caught trying to escape and arthur is placed in solitary confinement
Lee visits him to say she is being released to avoid his influence to avoid his influence

(29:52):
But promises to attend his trial and they have sex
I had to point that out you you usually um, I feel um plot descriptions don't point out when characters have sex
But so like I think this is one of the first
Yep, um
During an interview with television personality patty meyers arthur sings to lee through the television screen deepening her love

(30:14):
On the day of the trial assistant district attorney harvey dent calls witnesses who dismiss arthur's claims of insanity
During a break marianne reveals that lee was actually a psychiatry student who grew up in the upper west side
And her father a doctor is alive
Furthermore she voluntarily committed herself at arkham checked herself out and never burned down an apartment building

(30:37):
When arthur confronts lee she confesses that her lies were an effort to get close to arthur but also tells him that she is pregnant
And has moved into his old apartment building to create a home for them
At the trial the next day arthur dismisses marianne and represents himself
After being after bringing arthur's former co-worker gary puddles and neighbor sophie dumond to the stand dent rests his case

(31:00):
Arthur visibly affected by gary's testimony offers no defense although
During his speech he mocks the arkham guards and and indicates that they abuse him
Returning to arkham he is taken to the shower showers room by head guard jackie solvin and two guards where he is brutally assaulted before being dragged to his cell partially naked
Ricky an inmate and friend of arthur verbally confronts the guards resulting in jackie jackie strangling him to death

(31:27):
During his closing argument in court the following day a devastated arthur reannounces his joker persona taking full responsibility for his actions
Enraged at this lee storms out and the jury finds arthur guilty of murder
As the four as the four person reads the the verdict a car bomb explodes outside the courthouse killing and injuring numerous attendees

(31:47):
And scarring half of dents face
I feel they could have they could have showcased that a little more
Because I I I was that was horse shit
Yeah, like that that was that was not that evident like
Come on, um in the chaos two followers help arthur escape
Arthur wanders through gotham city and encounters lee outside his old apartment, but she rejects him for renouncing his joker persona

(32:13):
As she leaves the police apprehend arthur and bring him back to arkham
The next day a young inmate approaches arthur and begins telling a joke before repeatedly stabbing arthur in the abdomen
As arthur bleeds to death his assailant carves a smile and a smile
Is that what he was doing back there? Uh, yeah
Oh, man

(32:33):
Uh, I don't know how I feel about that
Well, because uh for what I heard that's supposed to be the real joker of course it is now
That's exactly who I thought it was like not even knowing that like the carving thing was happening
or
I I don't know what the hell I was thinking he was doing back there like all this I thought he was taking the blood and like

(32:57):
Wiping it on his face or something like that. I maybe I just wasn't seeing that super clearly. I was focusing on arthur
I was doing the same thing
Uh, I had a feeling though that everyone was gonna make the claim. That's the real joker like
Izzy though
I was like, oh my god
I was like, oh my god
I'm like, is he though?

(33:22):
And bro
harvey
You mean to tell me that he was further away from the explosion than arthur was
Yet he got absolutely mutilated
And it wasn't even like it wasn't even like perfectly spread across his face it was literally like there was a line

(33:44):
Yeah
I'm like that is some horse shit if I ever honestly like I don't know it didn't even look like a burn. It just looked like soot
like yeah
That's that's what that's all that it looked like
Yeah, i'm like dude. Are you?
Can you guys try just me like try a little more like to tie it in to harvey dam becomes two-face?

(34:11):
Yeah, like
I think they needed to do something else because in
Every other iteration of
Oh shit
In every other iteration of anything that has to do with two-face. It's because he gets acid poured on his face

(34:32):
Yeah
So my question is why didn't you just have someone like freaking chuck like an acid?
bomb at his face
Or like something like right before the bomb explode or right?
After the bomb exploded you could have had something like that and then have people like
charging inside the

(34:53):
courtroom grabbing arthur and then while he's getting pulled out
You see harvey get freaking bushwhacked with the
acid bath
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point
Like you could have done something a little bit more prominent kind of keeping true to your source material
Which I know this is kind of an else world story. So it's not technically like

(35:17):
Batman or anything like that, but I mean still like you could have done something
Yeah
Dude, just getting into this story here
This was a lot
It was it was too much
Honestly, I personally I don't feel it was um

(35:37):
I don't
Literally, the only thing that I don't like about this story is I think the opening animation is
So out of left field it is
Very out of place
That just feels it makes no god damn like literally why do we need that?
Like let's just start how they like literally right after that animation

(35:58):
It's um, we're at the state prison and we get we're introduced uh reintroduced to arthur
What's wrong with opening the movie like that?
They needed another musical number or some bullshit like that. I guess so. Um, the animation was all right, though
Yeah, the animation was good. It's just

(36:19):
like
Like even like even watching it a second time because like the first time i'm just like, okay
What what the hell is this and then you know, like when the the actual i-field movie started
I'm just like, okay, like yeah, this this actually feels like joker. This feels like a continuation of the first one
um
Like even the second time i'm just like, okay, like yeah, like this is like all right, but like it still feels so

(36:43):
unnecessary like hell like um
It maybe if you like included that as like, um before the actual movie started. It's just you know, like a fun, um,
Uh short short before the movie
Yeah, I guess i'd be okay with that but don't actually make it part of the damn movie
Dude, I I wouldn't know where to put that

(37:04):
Like if you were doing like a complete reorganization of this movie, it feels like you said it feels so out of place
Yeah, you might as well have just not put it in
I'd be okay with that
like I would have been more okay with like a
almost not a complete retelling
but just
Uh a recap of what happened in the first joker

(37:26):
That's kind of what I thought they were doing because I thought it was just recapping like um the whole night at murray franklin's show
But clearly murray's not there. Um, it has a it literally says the joker show featuring
So so and so so yeah, clearly it's his own show like this is all about joker
so
It like is it supposed to be like oh, you know like someone who's like a super fan of joker made this and just this is showcasing like how

(37:54):
people how people care more about
um the joker as the symbol rather than the person behind the makeup arthur
Um, and I feel the rest of the movie does a really good job with that personally. I I feel that
Throughout you you know, like people that actually, you know like arthur only like him for joker

(38:16):
They don't actually care about arthur fleck and I feel the rest of the movie does a does a good job showcasing that and it's
And as we get towards the end with it
Um, but just the animation just it's so out of place. I I
I don't like that. I think the mistake that they made with that
Is I think it would have made more sense or kind of fit more with the tone of the movie

(38:42):
had it not be like
The if you would have like made the shadow kind of represent arthur
Where it's like trying to get away from the joker
And yes, like I love that separate himself for or whatever and it's like it's
The joker persona that's grabbing him and pulling him along and like forcefully like dragging him

(39:07):
To be part of things that he doesn't want to be a part of
That would have been so much better I would have loved that
Yeah, like just the hell the tone and you still could have had that like that very
Old-timey 19 like what would you say 50s style animation? Yeah, I would say so

(39:28):
like maybe even like
a little later than that like it seemed pretty modern like
Early looney tunes kind of stuff. Yeah, there we go. Or maybe even like pre looney tunes
like whenever they started introducing like color to
TV

(39:48):
Yeah
but
No, it's like
You you had something that just completely did not fit the tone
No, it didn't even like fit the message of the movie. There was like there it was nothing
like
This is something that i'm like this is where you could have done like
More or less like a little bit of a spoiler about what was going to happen

(40:13):
where
Maybe like the the animated joker persona falls in love with
Uh, like harley
And then arthur's just kind of like keeps trying to get in the middle of it and it's just push away push away push away
and then
Like that kind of shit

(40:35):
Yeah, dude freaking yeah, you could have written a way better animated sequence than they did. Yeah, it's just
That's the tone of that was completely off
and
I feel like a majority of the movie
Was kind of like that too

(40:56):
It was just that the tone was just
off
like there's just
I don't feel like like the the courtroom drama thing. I didn't necessarily care for
And then obviously like and then it jumped to like the guard stuff like when he's in prison and all that
I would have preferred that him and harley like escape and kind of terrorize gotham a little bit more

(41:21):
and
and like
I
I feel um, see this is what sucks about marketing
Is that usually?
So for the most part you'll get exactly what's your marketed? Um, what what's your promise like from trailers and shit?
I feel that this movie is marketably marketed so horribly

(41:43):
Because there are a lot of scenes in the trailers that we don't see of lee
Um, and we're promised like yeah. Oh, this is just joker and harley just going insane. They're they're ruling gotham
um, whereas no, it's more it's a story of you know arthur being in prison him meeting a girl that actually

(42:04):
Likes him that wants to be hit be with him. Like she's the one that actually like initiates the feelings first
um and
her doing like everything that she can to
Try to uh get him out of prison just showing her support just showing how much she cares about him
and then ultimately to find out that oh
Because you don't want to be joker anymore. I don't care about you. That's all that I cared about

(42:27):
I don't care about arthur fleck all I care about is joker. That's all that's the only person that I wanted to be with
um
In person, I love that story because I feel that
The first one is the rise of arth from arthur to joker. This one is the
Um, what's how do I say this?

(42:48):
We're going backwards from that where arthur wants to go from being joker from being
Um, like the symbol of gotham to actually people wanting
To see him for who he is. He wants people to see him as arthur. He doesn't want to be joker
But as the movie progresses he like honestly he he's like so hyped up from all these people at his trial from lee

(43:13):
Even the guards, you know saying like oh, do you still think he's joker?
After you know, they made that tv movie about you
but ultimately at the end he finally realizes
No, this is not who I want to be. I want to be arthur fleck
Um and you know the whole scene, you know what sucks about this whole thing

(43:33):
Well, the only people that really seemed interested in arthur
Were the guards
Yeah, you know what? Yeah, you're not wrong
Like they're the ones that were like, I mean, yeah, they were making fun of him and they were like
Picking on him and bullying him
But when he started going joker, they started treating him super different

(43:58):
Yeah, that's true
But before that when he was
Playing art or when he was being arthur and like hey arthur you got a joke for us today like
He kind of has like a rapport with him
Like yeah, I mean, it's not a good french like they're not solid buddy buddy or anything
like and that was just evident when

(44:20):
Uh when joker tapped the dude on the back and he's like, thanks buddy. And then he's like
Yeah
I'm like shit. I'm like, yeah, you forget you are a prisoner like a bitch but
But like you you get that sense that they're kind of like buddy buddy
At least a little bit

(44:41):
Yeah, like honestly, I feel like um, because um, oh my god, what is uh,
The the main guards name glissand
Glissand thank you like that's that's uh, I mean that's the actor's name, but okay. Um
But like throughout I feel like even at the beginning like yeah, you know

(45:01):
He still treats him like an inmate but like you can tell like he he does actually like like arthur like
He he warms up to him even just a little bit because like during the scene when they're at music class
And they're kind of taking a little break and he starts singing and lee calls. Um
Arthur over he sees him go over there, but he doesn't try to stop him

(45:23):
Yeah, like there's a like I said, there's a little bit of a rapport there and he actually like cares about
Arthur in a sense like as much as he
Can without it being like a conflict of interest? Yeah, like he's not going to break him out of prison or nothing
But he's like, hey, let the guy live a little
like thinking that he's going to be basically in jail for the rest of his life, but then the

(45:47):
The joker starts coming out more and more and he's like
We hate the joker. Yeah
like he starts like badmouthing them and like
And all this other shit and like yeah, it's like a betrayal more or less. It's just yeah
No, that's a great way to put it
Yeah, so it's just betraying the the it's hard to say friendship. They're like it's so

(46:10):
Fud up, but it's just but like you're not wrong
like um
I mean, it's all he pushed away like the joker coming out
Pushed away all of the people that actually cared about Arthur
One being his lawyer and two being the guards

(46:31):
Yeah
And then him embracing Arthur and coming back to that is what pushed everyone else away
Like pushed away harley it pushed away all of the fans and whatnot and released what you want to call the
Real joker. Yeah, like

(46:51):
It was it was an odd way to go about it like the I think in theory
Like on paper, this the story is good. The execution though was just a little rough
Like I think there were too many sequences that were like pretend
Like and I know that the first joker was like

(47:12):
I know the first joker kind of played on that a little bit where it's just like oh what's real? What's not?
I think this should have just stuck with what was real
I know I feel for um
The the way that they want to showcase how much lee cares for um, arthur
I guess honestly I can say joker because she really doesn't care for arthur

(47:34):
Um, yeah, she doesn't give a shit like it's like the
second that he like that she come like she comes running out in the hall and does the whole like gun to the head thing
It's like you knew that wasn't for arthur. That was for the joker
Arthur just took it for him. Yeah, dude

(47:55):
I I feel like the the one scene that is so clear that you're just like yeah
She doesn't give a shit about arthur is when she's like, oh my god, I'm gonna kill myself
But it's so clear that you're just like yeah, she doesn't give a shit about arthur is when she visits him in his cell
And she has to put the joker makeup on him before they can do like
I miss before they can have sex or just do anything

(48:17):
Yeah, like she wants to only she and she even points out
She's like I want to see the real you and to me the real you is joker. It's not arthur fleck
Yeah, it's like, I don't I feel like the the amount of fantasies that they had I feel were perfect in my opinion
because I think that we needed to see what Lee saw and also how what she

(48:39):
pictured their lives to be and also what it no honestly was mostly what Lee saw
because in every single fantasy that she was envisioning it was never Arthur like
it was always it was always Joker like suit makeup green hair never once was
Arthur Fleck yeah Arthur was it kind of the same way like a lot of his fantasies

(49:04):
were he was the Joker that's true and I mean he didn't he have a couple where he
was just himself um I don't remember him having one where it was him I don't know
if he did actually like I feel like the big the biggest fantasy that Arthur has
is the one in the courtroom the the Joker is me yeah he's even he's in Joker

(49:30):
makeup there but I mean like that one makes sense because he he can Lee
convinces well okay I guess Lee doesn't convince him but after he fires his
lawyer he he convinces convinces himself that I can be my own lawyer but the only
way that I'm gonna be able to do it is as Joker I can't do it as Arthur Fleck
like I I'm more outspoken I'm more I'm more comfortable actually putting my

(49:57):
defense forward and talking around people as Joker and so it makes sense as
to why when we lead into that fantasy that it's not Arthur it's Joker yeah and
that whole sequence dude was sad like when he was defending himself and you

(50:17):
had he'd gone full Joker and like you knew Harley was was there for it and I
think that like the most heartbreaking was a mixture of the of his old neighbor
like that one was just though like that one was rough to hear from like oh his

(50:40):
mother didn't even think he was funny thought his his life was pathetic all
of it like hearing all this shit like right before he fired his lawyer I'm
like damn dude like sir because we got like a little glimpse of to how shitty
his mom was in the first one but this one just freaking was ice or cherry on
top for how she said that oh he was put here to spread laughter and joy that's

(51:05):
why she called him happy and she couldn't believe that he actually believed
her yeah I'm like say dude holy shit yeah it's like oh my god dude her his
lawyer I think was getting the job done oh yeah dude 100% heart like I was

(51:26):
completely on that lawyers team like Harley does not give a flying shit about
you I'm like the reason why she's sitting all the way in the back yeah I'm
like dude freaking rough super freaking rough dude hers was like you know like
that one definitely hit but when Gary got on that stand oh my god Gary broke my

(51:50):
heart dude same here dude I was like I I teared up the first time I saw I was
bawling the second time when he's I mean this is more so writing but when he
says what is it you you were the only one that didn't make fun of me you were
the only one that was nice to me when at work you like oh my god like yeah nice

(52:17):
in the heart and he's like him going on and like you are the one that like made
me like you made me realize just how small and powerless I am and like it's
just it brought me back to that scene where after he'd killed that one dude
and he basically scared the shit out of Gary just and like started like laughing

(52:41):
at him and just like yeah yeah like of course the dude felt like he had to ask
him for help to open the door dude like the the this the toll that that would
take on someone's psyche like that seriously now yeah that scene dude it

(53:04):
brought me back to that moment and I'm like oh my gosh like I couldn't like I
love I I really enjoyed seeing the aftermath of what happened in Joker I
think that was honestly the most interesting part of this whole movie like

(53:25):
seeing what happened after like to the survivors and everything yeah and like
hearing like the guy whose whose son was killed like the the freaking jerk
college pong the subway guys yeah the subway guys which I think I remember

(53:45):
when we were talking about that I'm like they kind of deserved it they did I'm
just gonna say right now they deserved it I I still stand by that yep same here
but understandable from his perspective or like yeah that's perspective like why

(54:05):
he was like flipping out but yeah I think there was a lot of good parts to
this story like the the courtroom drama part worked well for a minute like I
don't think there was too many scenes where it worked super well but there

(54:27):
were scenes like with Gary with the neighbor like some of those testimonies
were really good yeah like really freaking good it's just once it got does
the other shit that I was like not as impressed no but yeah that's that's
fair story wise though like this is it's close to average I'm putting a little

(54:53):
bit below I'm sitting at like a 72 really damn okay yeah a completely
understandable this was not nearly as good as the the origin or the first
Joker completely get it personally I think the story is really good there
there are some definite parts that that kind of do take you out of it there are

(55:20):
definitely some slow parts and freaking talking about the animation at the
beginning just don't get me started on that again but I feel that the story is
a good continuation of the first one it's the characters still feel the exact
same and I feel where they take Arthur in this movie I honestly loved I loved

(55:41):
watching the world just praise him for being Joker but him not want like him
wanting that at first like he loved being in the spotlight but then
realizing you know what no like I actually can't you just see me as Arthur
like what's like what's wrong with that I also love that they dug more into

(56:04):
how you know with the whole two personalities Arthur Joker his mental
disorder just everything I loved what they what they explored not only with
the story expanding on these characters but especially how they expanded the
story around Arthur I loved that so personally for the story I think I'm

(56:30):
gonna go on 82 fair enough moving on over to writing I do feel like the
writing was significantly better than the story I think there were a lot of
really good lines that came out of this like we just talked about Gary's whole
speech I thought that was really well written and talking about how he felt

(56:55):
like super powerless and small and and everything like along those lines and I
loved how they they wrote in like the like Joker defending himself it was it
felt like a mixture of Arthur and Joker where he's like or he's talking with his

(57:19):
ridiculous accent and then he's just like like no Gary I did like you yeah
like and it just like letting that Arthur slip and then I think Harley
started to notice and that was bothering her yep and so like there's a lot of
like really smartly written stuff there I loved I mean you know we find out as

(57:44):
the movie progressive that you know she was lying but I love how we're
introduced to Lee you know like she does the whole you know like fake gunshot in
the hallway and then she notices Arthur being brought to music class for the
first time and she's like is it really you it's like yeah and they have that
conversation in the hallway and she's just talking about how you know shitty

(58:05):
her childhood was how her her father abused her her father died in a car
crash she tried to burn her whole her whole family's apartment down that's
why she ended up there so like for a minute like you you you honestly feel
for this character for what she's been through but then you know you find out

(58:25):
it's it's a complete lie she just did it to try to get Arthur to like her but
like I don't like I don't know I feel it was a very it's a very good
introduction to the character and as the movie progresses I feel you don't hate
her well I don't know did you did you hate Lee as the movie went on or did you

(58:50):
like Lee I I started to not like her pretty early real okay yeah well as a
character yeah I mean her the characterization of her I really enjoyed
but as like the part as the character no I stopped liking her pretty early on
like once it came out that she was lying to Arthur I was super suspicious of her

(59:14):
am I now this isn't yeah this isn't flying like I don't know who the hell
you think you are and I think that's what I you know because this is a this
Joker story is completely different than the classic DC stories that we get for
any of these characters and so I like what they did with Harley in in this

(59:37):
version that you know yeah she does the classic whole oh I'm a you know
infatuated with the Joker but you know I I went through exactly what you went
through you know I remember me and my friends walking up those same steps going
to school just like really trying to sympathize with Arthur that like oh

(01:00:01):
these both these two have been through the same shit together compared to the
original Harley where it was just nothing but infatuation with Joker like
in this one like for a minute you could actually understand why these two would
get along so well because they're almost the same person but you know as the
movie progresses we learn that she's a liar and I honestly loved that like I

(01:00:26):
loved this different take on on the writing for Harley I know this more so
like character development but I feel that's more so that's character
development is more so Arthur that's it's Arthur story but I appreciated not
only the writing for Arthur but also the writing for Lee for how they
differentiated these two characters from the original source material like Todd

(01:00:49):
Phillips did a great job with both of these characters yeah like this version
of Harley really worked for this version of Joker because you like this isn't the
Joker that we know the Joker that we know did not give a flying shit about

(01:01:13):
Harley yeah like Harley was obsessed with him he could care less all like his
obsession was with Batman and if it wasn't Batman he could give a flying shit
and and here it was it was opposite it was horror or it was it was Arthur that

(01:01:37):
no one really gave a shit about and yeah one of the things I wish that they
would have played up on a little bit more was the whole the Joker show like
deal I wish that they would have rated that a bit more it like throughout the
fantasies like I would have liked to see that's fair yeah just so it's like very

(01:02:01):
obvious that it's a fantasy and then had like those sequences where it's like a
Harley gets introduced and everything's going great and grand and he's in love
and blah blah blah blah and then you hear the betrayal and then you see those
like very like artistic shots where it's like okay he's been shot like betrayed

(01:02:26):
by Harley or or whatever and it's I wish we would have gotten a little bit more
of that versus like the random ass dreams or daydreams whatever he that he
was having like the one of them dancing on top of like the Arkham Hotel yeah

(01:02:48):
yeah exactly no I can definitely agree with you there yeah I love that idea
yeah so I mean the way that like the other characters are written like I
really liked how that journalist the one that was interviewing Arthur I loved how
he was written I loved how the the lawyer was written like anyone that was

(01:03:10):
personally dealing with Arthur I loved how they were written like the ones that
actually seemed to care about Arthur not just the Joker yeah I did like this feel
like the like the dialogue with the random fans was super generic though
yeah that's what like the two that like grab him at the end after the after the

(01:03:37):
explosion yeah yeah I can definitely agree freaking as they're like you know
like he's like coming to and you you're just focusing on them and they're just
like oh yeah it's it's finally happening and you see like a firefighter drive by
and the guys say a few a few I'm like really come on yeah dude homeboy looked

(01:03:59):
way too close to Arthur like I would have pulled his ass over a makeup was
too good yeah like I would yeah absolutely but yeah no no dude I agree

(01:04:19):
with you like all the characters from the first one their writing was so so
good I especially agree with you with the TV reporter like how he kept like
trying to twist Arthur's words being oh so you're saying that what happened on
the Murray Franklin show that wasn't Arthur that was the Joker and like even
that's how he starts he's just like so should I call you Arthur or the Joker

(01:04:40):
and his lawyers just like you know you cannot ask him that and then he's just
like alright okay it's time to start but she can't be in here she has to be
freaking far away I'm not dealing with her shit dude people were disrespecting
her like we need to stop this now he's like we're not stopping oh my yeah bitch
do freaking but I think it was the same before when Jackie yeah yeah Jackie the

(01:05:03):
the main guard is you know trying to I think get him to go to this interview
and the one guard that's like sitting at the desk was just like hey you know he's
signing let him sign my book and Arthur's you know starting to you know
like actually like sign something nice he's about to put sign put on a happy
face and the guy leans over to Jack he's just like it's gonna be worth a fortune

(01:05:24):
after they fry his ass and freaking Arthur just crosses that off and writes
I hope you get cancer and then dude that was genius yeah like that's where I felt
super bad for him because it's like these people like in some way like some

(01:05:45):
of some of these guards like I feel actually cared a little bit in like
their own like twisted way and then you get that one that's just like oh he's
just out for clout and yeah the frickin sucks like it just this these movies did
a really good job at making you feel bad for Arthur yeah they really did and not

(01:06:11):
only is it because of the writing but you know also you know talking about
acting it's Joaquin Phoenix's incredible performance not only in the first one
but this one like I fell in love with Arthur Fleck all over again in this
movie yeah this is one I think the writing was pretty good it was it was

(01:06:32):
definitely above average on this one I'm probably gonna give this about ten
higher than story so I'm putting this at an 82 hell yeah I'm just gonna be
slightly above my writing at an 80 I think I'll go on 84 all right moving on

(01:06:53):
over to acting for this cast list first up we got Joaquin Phoenix who played
Arthur Fleck aka the Joker we got Lady Gaga who plays Lee Quinzel Brendan
Gleason who played I think he was a warden or or just the guard Jackie

(01:07:17):
Sullivan yeah we got Katherine Keener who played Mary Ann Stewart who was
Arthur's lawyer then we got Jacob Loaf land who played Ricky Malin is this the
guy that stabbed him or no or no that's his note no that's the like his like

(01:07:40):
only friend in prison that was you know there with him during like when they
were like smoking on the bleachers he's the one that's killed by Jackie right
right right right when he strangled to death so I felt like he had a decent
part in the movie because when dude his death was so sad it was super sad dude

(01:08:05):
and then Arthur just like laying there just listening to it like yeah that was
rough then we got Harry Lottie who played Harvey Dent again probably like
this was not a good intro to to face no I mean and you know we'll never get this

(01:08:26):
version of two-face again because one Todd Phillips said that you know not
doing another one and you know looking at the box office and James Gunn has
been like very distant with this movie so yeah honestly don't blame him yeah
then we got Lee Gill who plays Gary Puddles it's just heartbreaking

(01:08:52):
heartbreaking scene dude I almost completely forgot about him until he
started walking in the courtroom I was like this is not gonna be fun yeah then
you got Zazie Beats or is it Zazie or Zazie I think it's Zazie Zazie Zazie

(01:09:15):
Beats who plays Sophie Dumond who was Arthur's neighbor in the first film she
comes back and then we got Steve Coogan who played Patty Myers who was the
journalist that was basically egging Arthur on to to release the Joker yep a

(01:09:39):
kind of a small role for this guy yeah no like seriously I mean he was great
for what we got from him but yeah that was very shocking yeah you get Steve
Coogan for your movie like or was his voice like ridiculously deep yes a lot

(01:10:00):
of people pointed that out like he it seemed like he was definitely having a
hard time like doing an American accent and that was like the only way that he
made sure that like his uh his his like native accent wouldn't come through is
like like having it as deep as possible honestly it worked I agree like I didn't

(01:10:24):
I couldn't hear freakin British accent whatsoever yeah no I couldn't either so
I mean it was deep as hell but that's okay because it was really good yeah
obviously I think everyone knows what our number one's gonna be unless you're
throwing it at Harley no it's still walking yeah figured like he just once

(01:10:53):
again incredible performance I love him so much in this role I haven't seen him
a lot of Joaquin Phoenix's other work I honestly should because I think he's a
great actor but there's a reason why he won for best actor for the first one at
the Oscars unfortunately I don't see it happening with this one I would be
genuinely shocked if this got a nomination for anything I agree which I

(01:11:20):
feel is unfortunate but I get it but just yeah once again he gives his heart
and soul to this role I the pain emotion that you see in Arthur is just
heartbreaking and also like the frickin what Joaquin puts his body through for

(01:11:41):
this role like for how much weight he had to lose just for like how skinny
Arthur Fleck is like holy shit did he lose all that weight again yep holy
balls dude yeah yeah like that is commitment no that is joke that is
status Christian Bale level commitment right there straight up

(01:12:01):
holy crap I thought like the reason they kept him in baggy clothes was because he
couldn't lose all that weight again no that yeah no he lost it all again
because even like during an interview they asked like oh you know like hey you
know like you're you're kind of getting up there like are you sure you can still

(01:12:21):
like keep having to lose weight for these types of roles and he's just like
I guess you got a point maybe I should stop doing that without how old I'm
getting like and actually stop putting my body through that kind of stuff yeah
get your get yourself to a healthy like in a healthy vibe we will forgive you

(01:12:42):
yeah exactly like eat a sandwich dude holy yeah yet no dude like seriously but
yeah no he sorry good no I was just gonna say and some of the stuff that I
swear was not a stunt double that he was doing like when he freaking fell

(01:13:06):
against that wall after like he'd gotten stabbed by that inmate and just kind of
like collapse against that wall I was like that didn't look fake yeah no that
looked extremely real yeah there was a lot of shit like that that I'm just like
geez yeah yeah obviously number one going to Joaquin yeah I'm also thinking

(01:13:31):
we're in agreement with number two going to Lady Gaga oh yeah she was fantastic in
this the have you seen any of the behind the scenes or like press tour of them
together no it's not so it's actually like really like they have really really

(01:13:51):
good chemistry and there is like like when he's like talking about her he will
actually like ask her like oh is it should I say Gaga or can I say Stephanie
like he'll actually ask if it's okay if he says her real name oh my gosh I just
like what like what a gentleman but there's one interview that they're doing

(01:14:13):
somebody they Lady Gaga reaches for a glass of water and Joaquin thinks that
he's that she's giving it to him and he's like oh thank you so much and she's
like she's like oh and so she grabs the other one he's just like oh wait was
this for you that is fantastic so funny I've been avoiding I avoid interviews and

(01:14:41):
stuff like that because I they tend to spoil some stuff that's fair yeah that's
why I was avoiding it but I'll have to check that one out that one yeah like
they're so respectful to each other that I think they have great chemistry off
screen and on screen I thought these two were great together they they bantered
off of each other so well I believed the love story the fake love story

(01:15:06):
unfortunately I I truly believed that you know that Lee loved him until she
didn't we found yeah that she just only loved Joker and Lady Gaga's performance
was I thought it was amazing it was on the levels of Joaquin she she was truly

(01:15:26):
the perfect pick for this role they were I feel for the universe that they set up
with this these two actors were perfect for this version of Joker in this version
of Harley Quinn so yeah they Joaquin Phoenix just slightly better but no

(01:15:48):
disrespect to Lady Gaga because she freaking brought it in this movie and I
loved every minute that she was on screen she is an incredible actress she
is so freaking good dude yeah and she doesn't get enough credit for that she
doesn't but yeah her her role in this like you could feel like you could feel

(01:16:14):
the hurt like her love for for Arthur and like I said until you couldn't
anymore yeah and it almost makes me wonder like if she was I assume she was
the one that like set off the bomb like that that was just my assumption but if

(01:16:35):
she was I never thought about that but yeah that does make sense but it also
makes you wonder like is was she trying to free him or was she trying to kill
him if it was her and then like because she seemed pissed and like completely
turned him down like we had like what she said like we had the fantasy we had

(01:16:59):
like we had everything we had this and then as soon as she said we had the
fantasy I was like oh shit like I was devastated just devastated but yeah she
she sold that so incredibly well and I loved her for that what what's your

(01:17:22):
number three number three I would give to the guy that played Jackie so was
Jackie Sullivan yeah it was a different last name yeah Jackie Sullivan Brendan
Gleason I loved him in this role he was great
freaking just especially his interactions with Joaquin were just

(01:17:43):
like fantastic like every moment that he was on screen I loved watching him
definitely the best he was the funniest guard of all of them he was the guard
that you really got to know the most and just yeah like he was great I loved him
so same here that's my third he was so good my number three though I'm actually

(01:18:11):
gonna give to Lee Gill completely fair yeah who played Gary Puddles his scene
alone like stole the movie oh dude just freaking breaks your heart just just the
line you were the only one that was nice to me you're just like oh god yeah knife

(01:18:34):
to the heart like it was so so rough and I like yeah this is the the scene that
got me like crazy emotional I was like man and like I said flooded me back with
all the memories of the first I was like damn so yeah I'm definitely giving him

(01:18:59):
my my number one or number three what's the where you sitting out with your
acting I feel acting was great across the board like everybody brought it I
thought everyone just did a great job so acting I think I'm gonna break a 90 and

(01:19:20):
go a 90 I'm actually sitting right there with you at 90 hell yeah yeah I mean the
acting is good like the only thing that I feel really sucked about this was the
story everything else was pretty decent or above average yeah all right moving

(01:19:43):
on over to character development this one's a little tough to do that's fit
because I feel like if you're looking at both of these movies I feel that you
kind of have to look at the character development from Arthur for the first
one as well as the second one because you know in the first one you see a down
on his luck kind of guy that basically is pushed to his limits reaches the end

(01:20:08):
and finally says you know enough is enough and becomes who we know is the
Joker and then the second one is him deciding okay you know what I hid or no
not hid everyone loves me as this character they don't love me for who I
am they love me as this character and that's not that's not who I want to be

(01:20:34):
I mean it takes him a while to get to that but once we reach the ending like
he's finally like yeah he's lost everything but at least and this is like
really sad to say at least he dies knowing that he's finally just Arthur
Fleck like he he's just him that's really sad but like at least he knows

(01:20:59):
that and so I feel like if you're looking at the first one along with the
second one I mean because you know it makes sense it's a sequel so you know
you want to look at the character development in the first one and this
one I think it's a really good character development personally because you see a
guy go from the worst at his worst feeling like he's at top of the world

(01:21:24):
and then finally going back down to you know what maybe actually I just want to
be what I was at the beginning I want to just be me like who he was at the end
was like you said purely Arthur Fleck and he like he opened up about the like
killing his mom yeah and like to the jury and was just like I I did kill

(01:21:51):
those people I killed six people and one on national television like I did this
and like I think just him kind of almost getting rid or sending the Joker persona
away was it was really powerful for especially seeing where he came from

(01:22:18):
because like it would be you'd be remiss to not include the first Joker in this
breakdown yeah I agree like in terms of character development because it's just
you see this character come so far and then it's just you think that he's like

(01:22:38):
top of the world as Joker and then he's sitting on top of the world like he has
all these followers all like everything that he thought he wanted and I think
it's just progressively he got to the point where he realized that that's not
what he wants and I think it was hearing all these testimonies of people being
like giving the brutal truth about him like I would say like his neighbor being

(01:23:06):
like his mom like his mom thought he was a joke like he made me nervous and and
all this and I didn't call the cost because I didn't feel like he was a
threat and obviously that was wrong like just spitting these truths at him and I
think at a certain point it started turning into a show where he was
pretending to be Joker and you could tell that his whole like mannerism kind

(01:23:28):
of changed yeah and yeah it was it was sad it was it was truly sad like what
happened to him and and you feel it like you feel this full-heartedly and yeah

(01:23:49):
like you said when he dies knowing that he's just purely Arthur but he it's he
still kind of gives like almost like that respect to people like when he's
just like hey I have a joke for you you could tell that he kind of doesn't want
to be there but he's like okay is it quick yeah it's just you know so and so

(01:24:13):
many people have talked about like what if you know when he's told that he has a
visitor and then the the one inmate stops him in the hallway so many people
have contemplated that was that a setup by the guards or was did he actually
have a visitor what are your thoughts interesting I didn't think this was a

(01:24:36):
setup I didn't I didn't either I didn't get that vibe I mean the guard was
rushing him and being like let's go flick and like giving him like that whole
shtick so that I think that's maybe what sold it a little bit more than it yeah I
think it would have been a little bit more suspicious like if he'd been like
hey you got to get or yeah you have a visitor and then he just disappeared in

(01:24:59):
the hallway and it's like boom you got like this guy so I I don't feel like it
was a complete setup who do you think his visitor was though that's a great
question many hope it was Gary they they hope it was Gary yeah they hope it was

(01:25:20):
Gary there's no way there is no frickin way Gary's got Gary's too busy in
therapy to visit Arthur yeah that's true so true oh poor Gary that I don't know
but honestly now that you're saying that it very well could have been a setup

(01:25:40):
you know like cuz who else would have like Harley kind of wrote him off oh yeah
no it wouldn't be yeah I don't think it would have been his neighbor I can't
think of anybody else that would go to see Arthur I know like his old lawyer
maybe that that's a hard maybe yeah right I I can't think of a single person

(01:26:07):
so honestly not being able to think of someone that would visit him unless it
was like a fan yeah maybe like it like that's the only like person that I feel
like would show up would be a fan but they all kind of seemed like pissed off
at him so yeah so I like to if that's if like there's no one that makes sense for

(01:26:33):
there to be or like it's a hard stretch for them to be his visitor I kind of
just like to think that it was a setup yeah as effed up as that is I I would
buy setup like cuz I'm trying to think of anyone that they set up in the like
the first or cuz I was thinking like oh could it be like Thomas Wayne but I'm

(01:26:56):
like nah like he's dead it's true and I don't think that you know this movie
only takes two place out to place Wow two years after the first one so we know
it's not gonna be Bruce Wayne yeah Bruce Wayne still talking to a child
therapist yeah and spoiler alert it's doing nothing but I mean character

(01:27:21):
development wise like this was a really interesting arc definitely one of the
more interesting ones I think this one I think the the structure of how it was
told was just like slightly off so I'm sitting at like a 79 like I'm not quite

(01:27:44):
cracking an 80 with that one I think I am cracking 80s and I'm thinking just a
little higher than you had an 84 fair enough all right moving on over to
effects there weren't any real special effects other I mean there was the
animation at the beginning which the animation yeah beautiful yeah that

(01:28:07):
looked great yeah the animation looked great it's just actually what was in the
animation that just felt very out of place yeah did we've talked enough about
that yeah practical they did like literally they I love that it felt like

(01:28:29):
they shot it the same all the set pieces were the same like literally you could
combine these two movies and it could just be one movie for how identical it
is to the first one yeah when it comes to to its aesthetic its effects which I
absolutely love I love when a sequel can just be combined with its first and it
can just be one whole movie like how like one that I love looking at to think

(01:28:55):
about that can just be combined of the original Halloween and the original
Halloween too like literally those two movies could be one damn movie just one
close to three hour movie yeah I mean practical I don't think I noticed
anything that was CGI yeah I didn't either yeah so I doubt they they used

(01:29:17):
any of that practical wise in terms of action very brutal very brutal yes dude
freaking when he they showcase like the courtroom fantasy I feel is a great
showcase of the effects here because when he freaking beats Harvey Dent with

(01:29:37):
the stool dude freaking that was insane yeah and then you freaking see Lee like
take blood from him and just draw a smiley face on her mouth I'm like shit
and then freaking you see him walk up to the judges stand and then beat the guy
with a mallet yeah that oh dude or a gavel whatever he is or was it a

(01:30:02):
mallet or was it the gavel okay it was the gavel but okay same place that same
thing yeah it dude that like you saw impact yeah especially when frickin dent
was getting the chair like he was a WWE champion holy shit yeah like damn yeah

(01:30:26):
yeah Dan got beat like he owed Joker money see now if that was real and you
know Arthur beat the shit out of his face we could have said that's how he
becomes two-face I would have believed that more than what we got yeah dude
like there were people people closer to the blast that had their whole body

(01:30:48):
intact yeah I'm just I'd be like you know it's not comic accurate but at
least I can believe that more like you know I can understand why his you know
face was mutilated why he is two-faced now yeah I I'm glad that we're never
gonna get to see what came of that because nothing I feel would be

(01:31:08):
satisfying that's fair but yeah uh I mean other than that like I said the the
the effects were great action sequences look good any like combat that they had
looked good I say combat it was more brutal beatings but it was one-sided

(01:31:28):
combat yeah like all that looked really good I know I probably put that 87 yeah
I think I'll match you there all right next up we got music this is a tough
one a tough one because you hated the soundtrack or no I didn't hate the
soundtrack at all I thought the song was was fantastic oh okay good is hey well

(01:31:52):
for me this is is it worthy of a ten because I don't know if it is I
honestly I don't think it is I think it's worthy of like a super solid nine
I like it's all it is yeah yeah the set like it was missing that one banger I

(01:32:15):
know I feel the banger is the if my friends could see me now that that's the
banger in my eyes honestly that was my least favorite song really oh yeah I've
had that on repeat I love that song I need to listen through this soundtrack
again but yeah I was not impressed I was not impressed and that sucks to say that

(01:32:40):
absolutely sucks to say yeah that makes me sad because that's like Lady Gaga is
like big I feel that's like I mean that's not her only number but you know
like that's like our first like big musical number she has in the movie yeah
yeah I'm sitting at a nine there Sam here all right next up we got costumes

(01:33:03):
this was on par with the first the only yes group it was Harley's and Harley's
outfit was eh they kept it very subtle throughout like you know like the the
ending that we get is you know like classic like red and black you know like
that looks awesome for like the last day of trial but like yeah like you like you

(01:33:28):
said it's it's definitely not I feel it's not what we expected but I think
that's okay I was fine with it yeah I mean I knew that they were gonna go a
different route with this version of Harley and I don't know I think the eye
makeup was just too subtle I think they need to go a little bit more hardcore

(01:33:52):
with it like like in the dream sequence for the Joker and Harley show she has
that like you know blue eyeliner still with the black makeup like would you
want it as prominent as that but like maybe change it a little bit I would
have liked to see her mimic Joker's makeup without the white face and maybe

(01:34:19):
like oh yeah so like to have a blue diamond and then a red diamond and then
have like the red and then have to like the red smile damn yeah I would have
liked that too yeah I would have I would have gone a little bit more intense with
it versus just the very light just it was just like a black diamond and then

(01:34:40):
she like smeared the bottom so it like had a point to it like yeah it was just
too subtle I think she yeah go a little harder with it yeah yeah so I mean if
they would have just absolutely killed Harley's outfit like I think the suit
worked really well for her like the just yes it was like almost a scarlet red

(01:35:02):
suit like I love that that look on her yeah that looked great yeah it's just
the the the face makeup and I think if they would have nailed the face makeup I
probably would be willing to go up to like and nine but I think I'm sitting at
an eight I'm thinking the same thing yeah Joker looks great because it's it's

(01:35:27):
exactly what we got from the first one but you know I definitely agree with you
they they could have definitely stepped it up a bit when it came to Harley's
makeup yeah or Lee's makeup whatever same thing honestly all right last
this can interviewer does call her Harley and Quinzel when they're having

(01:35:49):
their interview so I guess they do actually call her Harleen yeah all right
last up we got personal score let's I'll go first because I you had a more
positive outlook on this movie than I did I I didn't hate this movie when

(01:36:09):
you're if you're comparing it to the first Joker it's a big decline it is a
big decline but I think what maybe helped me was that I managed my
expectations going in because the first time you were just like yeah this is
kind of shitty and everything I had heard about it may like just brought my

(01:36:33):
expectations down to like a minimum and I do believe that it met those
expectations and so I do feel like I might be viewing this a little bit more
favorably but this isn't a god-awful movie people walking out of this movie
utterly ridiculous yes it's it's too much people like come on the movie's not

(01:37:00):
that bad if you could sit through Morbius you can sit through Joker Folly I do
yeah actually that might even be too low of a bar yeah no I agree yeah yeah maybe
Morbius isn't the one to compare this to if you could sit through you know what
let me just put the score in and we'll find out what you could what you'd have

(01:37:22):
to like equal sit through um I am going to be giving this a 76 I enjoyed it
enough this is one that I'll probably rewatch again just to see if I look upon

(01:37:43):
it a little bit more favorably because I like now I know what it is going into it
and I could like look for different things and whatnot but I I didn't hate
this it was it wasn't as good as the original or the first and that's kind of
to be expected but yeah people calling this like oh it's absolutely garbage now

(01:38:08):
it's not I've seen absolute garbage and I still I would rather watch that than
than this all right rather one this I was like wait what she's I got way
freaking turned around on that thought you're good yeah I I would rather watch
this than anything else that was like really poorly received like I'd watch

(01:38:34):
this so like obviously this is just bottom of the barrel movies but I'd
watch this above Madame Web I'd watch it above frickin Morbius I'd watch it above
Borderlands I'd watch it above Borderlands like there's a lot that I
would watch over this so yeah my personal I'm sitting at a 76 very average

(01:38:59):
movie completely understandable so I remember so when I walked out of this
movie the first time I thought okay you know what that was all right kind of
like what Caleb said you know like it I I felt it was getting too much hate but
I understood the criticism criticism watching it a second time considering I

(01:39:20):
knew what I was walking into my score actually went up quite a bit I enjoyed
it a lot more a second time and just like yeah like Caleb said it's not as
good as the first one but I still think it's a very good sequel it's a good it's
a good accompanying piece to the first one walking Phoenix once again brings

(01:39:41):
his a game this time around not this time around he always does but once again he
brings it Lady Gaga is absolutely amazing here as a Lee Quinzel just the whole
cast is great I absolutely loved the music I can't stop listening to the
soundtrack honestly and just yeah like it's it's definitely I'm sure not the

(01:40:06):
sequel that people wanted to Joker because a lot of people can say that
Joker did not need a sequel and I will and I will be one of those that admits
that as well Joker did not need a sequel but for what Todd Phillips was able to
create I feel that it is a worthy sequel to the first movie and honestly I'm

(01:40:28):
happy with what we got I think it's a good film it's not a great film but I
think it is a good film so I am going to be exactly ten points higher than Caleb
and I'm gonna be at an 86 for my personal score hell yeah all right going
through these scores real quick starting off with story we ended up averaging out

(01:40:54):
at a 77 writing got a pretty decent bump it's sitting at an 84 acting is our
highest category sitting at a 90 character development took a little bit
of a dive sitting at an 81.5 the effects were really good there's they ended up

(01:41:21):
sitting at an 87 the music is sitting at a 9 out of 10 the costumes are sitting
at an 8 out of 10 and then our personal score ended up averaging out to an 81 so
with that the final Albrose letter grade for Joker Folly I do has come out to a

(01:41:42):
B all right I'll take it oh I thought this was definitely going to be in the
B- range I am so glad it's not Rose single-handedly saved this this movie
from being like the B- range I'm either gonna be praised for that or hated for

(01:42:03):
that my money's on hated yeah mine too damn okay so Joker fully I do is sitting
at an eighty four point four three percent let's go yeah that puts it a
pretty mid B so our range for B is between an eighty three percent and an

(01:42:31):
eighty six percent so this is sitting right in the middle at eighty four point
four three eight or four three so that puts it on the exact same level as prey
Wow okay yeah and I I like pray a lot I do too and I also like Joker fully I do a

(01:42:53):
lot so I like that oh shit oh no what okay I'm just gonna go with what it's
below first okay so this is sitting below spider-man 3 all right it is below

(01:43:13):
Christopher Robin yeah that's fair it is below the matrix resurrections I agree
to disagree it's below the Hunger Games the Ballad of Songbirds and snakes okay
and it is below Megan all right go in the opposite direction sitting above

(01:43:38):
Avengers age of Ultron oh shit oh shit oh dude we're gonna get so much hate for
that yeah it's above blue beetle yeah I can agree with that I'm sorry just just
wait just wait it's above free guy I agree with that too it's above Thor

(01:44:04):
Ragnarok I agree as well and it's above Sonic the Hedgehog I'm going to I'm
sorry I've really enjoyed this movie what I mean well okay for one I think
hedgehog is a frickin that's a hard sell Sonic the Hedgehog is a good movie but

(01:44:25):
the second one is better and I'm sorry man I am what I am I really really enjoy
Joker fillet I do as clearly as you can see for how much I boosted its score
yeah listen for any of the any of you that are going to throw a fit about
this the would like to say he is not with me first up I am not with him but

(01:44:52):
no the difference between those two movies is point six percent damn okay
the margins are so ridiculously tight dude on this it's it's crazy dude if if
Michael listens to this he's gonna kill me oh yeah yeah if my old co if one of

(01:45:16):
my old co-workers slash good friends of mine Michael listen to this episode he's
gonna kill me for that ranking ooh for how big of a Sonic the Hedgehog fan he
is yeah sorry man dude to get one percent away from from that movie you
have to go down 16 movies before you're one percent away Wow yeah and one percent

(01:45:45):
away is frickin childs it's 2019's child's play damn oh we should yeah so
16 movies before you even reach a percent so anyone who wants to throw
shade it is literally less than 1% but yeah I'll be it's a bit of a tough sell

(01:46:13):
but I think talking at least for me the but I don't think it's completely
undeserved I do feel like a B is a decent home for this but when you're
comparing it to the OG Joker or the first Joker that we gave an I believe we

(01:46:35):
gave that a minus yeah we're like we're sitting at a minus like literally 2%
away from being an a like come on yeah like of course like it does look it
seemed like a very drastically different movie but the quality is I mean it's

(01:46:58):
it's still somewhat there but yeah the only one that's giving me some pause is
the Sonic bitch hedgehog but yeah so anyway yeah if you guys liked our that
wraps up this week's breakdown so sorry to any Sonic fans out there if you

(01:47:24):
enjoyed if you enjoyed this episode want to check out more of our stuff be sure
to follow and subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts we are
basically everywhere we are on Spotify I heart radio Apple podcasts Google

(01:47:45):
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(01:48:06):
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(01:48:35):
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(01:48:58):
and yeah we would love to hear from you guys so like I said links to all that
stuff will be in the description next week we will be breaking down what I
assume is the final installment of these Sony venom series see they say that but

(01:49:22):
in a recent interview Tom Hardy said that he would love to come back for the
character because he's love that doesn't necessarily mean that like a movie I
assume this is the last venom movie I don't think this movie with venom in it
yeah that's yeah that's true I want to see this version of venom go up against

(01:49:44):
Tom Holland a lot of people do and I do as well but I mean hey you know what for
how I mean let's face it like they their studios that promise oh yeah this is the
last one it's only gonna be a trilogy then they see how profitable the third
one is and they're just like shit I think we're making a fourth I would also

(01:50:05):
really like for them to give Andrew Garfield that third spider-man movie and
putting him up against that so much yeah put him up against Tom Hardy's venom that would be
freaking sick too that honestly I think I'd actually want to see Tom yeah Tom

(01:50:27):
Hardy's venom face off against Garfield's spider-man more dude how cool
would it be if Tom Hardy's venom ended up being the venom for both Garfield
and Holland that'd be pretty badass that would be the shit I would love that
that'd be pretty awesome oh but yeah so anyway you guys can tune in next week to

(01:50:53):
our breakdown of venom the last dance yeah we'll be doing that next week but
until then this has been the all bros podcast I'm Caleb and I'm Jonathan and
we will catch you guys next week deuces see ya

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Ep. 341: Joker: Folie à Deux Breakdown

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