Brooklyn Grotte is a luxury photographer, business coach, and the founder of The 5X Photographer—a transformational program helping photographers grow to consistent $5K+ months with messaging, visibility, and simple, scalable systems.
- Cut your lead gen costs in HALF with my $37 mini-course–NOW only $17!
- Visit The Art of Online Business website for Facebook Ads help
Brooklyn shares how she went from $200 photo sessions to building a low-ticket funnel that brings in consistent 3x ROAS using Facebook and Instagram ads. We talk about the exact offers she includes, how she set them up in ThriveCart, and why keeping each offer at $27 is actually working.
She also breaks down her monthly ad spend, how she tests creatives, and why she prefers a slower, sustainable growth approach.
Watch this episode on YouTube!
Please click here to give an honest Rating/Review for the show on iTunes! Thanks for your support!
Kwadwo [QUĀY.jo] Sampany-Kessie’s Links:
- Get 1:1 Meta Ads Coaching from Kwadwo!
- Say hi to Kwadwo on Instagram
- Subscribe to The Art of Online Business’s YouTube Channel
Brooklyn's Links:
- Connect with Brooklyn on Instagram
- Sign up for her Weekly Newsletter “Not Another Boring Newsletter”
- Tune in to her Reframed Podcast
- Get her course “Ads That Scale” —Use code at checkout for $500 off: 500OFF
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, you requested that I bring on the podcast
successful entrepreneurs onlinecourse creators who are running
Facebook and Instagram ads fortheir business, so that you
could be inspired by how theyset theirs up, especially ones
that have low ticket offerfunnels that are profitable.
Jamie is back with me after abit of hiatus.
Brooklyn Grotty, on the otherside of us and or next to us, as
(00:25):
it were, and in this episodeyou're going to hear behind the
scenes about her successful lowticket offer ads funnel.
It's right now, or over thepast several months, been
getting three X ROAS, as in shegives one dollar to Mark
Zuckerberg and gets threedollars back, and it's pretty
cool.
We've been chatting for thebetter part of 30 minutes now,
(00:51):
but let me share with you alittle bit about Brooklyn before
we jump into her business andher ads and you get to learn
about how she's running them.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I'm pretty intrigued.
Yeah, this is gonna be reallygood yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So Brooklyn is a luxury photographer, business
coach and the founder of the 5XPhotographer that's the name of
her course, a transformationalprogram helping photographers
grow to consistent 5K plusmonths with messaging,
visibility and simple andscalable systems.
She's also the creator of acourse called Ads that Scale,
(01:26):
which is a new course teachingphotographers how to run
low-ticket ads that convertwithout the tech overwhelm and
complicated funnels, which makessense because she's running a
successful funnel and she does alot and she definitely does not
need business overwhelm by alot.
Brooklyn and I met at aconference called the Creative
Educators Conference recentlyand my wife here, jamie, was
(01:49):
quite shocked that I couldremember so much about Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
That I couldn't remember.
He's telling me all this stuffabout her story and then I'm
just looking at him like youdon't remember what time we get
home from swim class every day,but you remember this whole
story.
But it's pretty fascinating.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So we'll dive into that in a moment, right?
So basically, brooklyn, we werejust chatting about how you
grew up in a city that I thoughtwas 2 000 people, but you have
since corrected me and it's 1300people.
You have a farm sixth generationfamily farm that's like a
thousand acres, which to me, acity boy, is mind-blowingly
large and you were in the middleof telling us about the cool
(02:32):
story about how your, you andyour husband met and now he
farms with your dad.
I'm gonna ask you a ton ofquestions about your ads, funnel
, and even your business in amoment.
But first, welcome to the show.
Really good that we get to hangout again thank you so much for
having me.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I'm so excited to finally be hitting record.
It was great to meet you indallas.
It's so fun to be here.
It's great to meet jb too yes,good to have you scooch.
I don't have anybody over hereto tell the Scooch.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I know we're always trying to fit on together.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
So walk us through.
I mean, I know the listenerwants to hear your story too,
but walk us through, please, asnapshot of your business as it
stands now.
What's making up the mostrevenue, what other offers do
you have?
And, of course, give us thebasics, basics of this low
ticket offer funnel, and thenwe'll come back and circle
around later in the episode andjump into the juicy data on your
(03:30):
funnel.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Sounds great, yeah, so kind of big picture in my
business right now I am aboutI'm.
It used to be 100% photography,so I was a photographer.
I've been a photographer for 12years, so I charged about $200
a session for seven of thoseyears.
I didn't have much confidencebehind my pricing around my
structure of it, anything likethat, and so I started.
(03:53):
I truly started at the bottom.
I started just first with freesessions and then $100 and then
$200 sessions, and then I juststayed there for a long time
until I finally hired a mentor,decided okay, I want to grow
this, I want to, you know, makemore money with this.
I wasn't hardly making any tostart with, so then I slowly
upped.
I went, you know, to like 500,$800 sessions and then began
(04:15):
offering prints and products andoffering kind of full service
studio.
I built my studio that I'msitting in If you're watching on
YouTube, I built this in 2020.
So that's kind of when mybusiness went from kind of piece
piecing it together to allright, let's build this into
something profitable.
So kind of getting on a tangenthere, I guess.
(04:36):
But that's kind of backstory ofwhere I came from and then.
So now I have, I had a studioand that kind of is when my
business took a bigger place inour life, even because my
husband's a farmer and at thetime I was.
We have three little kids andso I was home with the kids and
so then I let's see, we did soportrait photography.
That's when I transitioned tolike a thousand two thousand
dollar price range and offeringmore full service.
(04:59):
So I bring in hair and makeup,I do.
I have a client closet, I helpstyle and then I help do wall
art design.
So I do.
I have a client closet, I helpstyle, and then I help do wall
art design.
So I do custom collages forfamilies to display in their
home.
So that's a big part of myportrait work.
So that would be like was ahundred percent of my income.
Up until about two years ago,after I built my studio, I
started getting more questionsProbably like you guys get to
(05:20):
sometimes like how are you doingthis or how are you running
your business?
Kind of just off the cuffpeople asking to be mentored.
I did a lot of that for abouttwo years and then I was getting
enough increases like, okay,let's step into coaching more.
I really love teaching, so Istarted coaching about two years
ago and now that takes up over50% of my business and the other
(05:42):
50% is photography.
So my coaching seems to begrowing and I'm really enjoying
it and I, so I've cut back onsessions and I I mostly just
take recurring clients.
Now my summer is pretty muchfull.
I have about two spots open inJuly right now, but June to
August is full with recurringclients, and so then the rest of
(06:05):
my income is coaching, and soto funnel coaching and even to
get clients in the door forphotography, I turned to ads, so
we've got a story there too,but anyways.
I'll stop talking for a minute.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
So not only are you using ads to the low ticket
offer funnel, but you're alsousing ads to fuel.
Then what discovery calls?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Or how do you get your clients in the photography
business?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah, great question.
So I do lead gen ads to somesort of freebie or incentive, a
discount, get them onto an emaillist and then I nurture them.
I find most success when I'mreaching out individually to
them or connecting with them.
So I'll ask for their Instagramhandle and then go give them a
follow or drop them a message.
(06:48):
Within my area, of course, I'mrural, so a lot of my clients
are about an hour and a halfaway.
I've chosen a target market tocentralize my ads around, since
it's location based, and thecool thing with running ads is
that even if you're running likea lead gen ad, I still get
messages from people who justsee the ad and they're not
(07:10):
necessarily clicking through thefunnel to go through my system.
They're just sending me amessage I just got.
I had a discovery call lastweek actually, of a med spa and
they saw one of my ads and,instead of booking me for a
session, they're like could youhelp us with ad strategy?
So now they're wanting me tonot only come to a brand session
for them to take their photos,but they're also because I run
(07:32):
ads, and they see me talkingabout ads like could you help us
with that?
So I feel like there's a lot ofbenefits from running ads just
beyond the actual funnel of thead, you know, whether it just dm
conversations or peopleinterested or just getting more
like follows, more awarenesskind of helps me build my, build
, my business that way that isso cool.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
You said you started out from like the bottom, as in
doing 200 dollar sessions,photography sessions.
Can you give us some context oflike what a session involves
and how many hours was that persession?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Oh, good question.
So I average now per session.
I'm spending about 15 hours perclient.
That's all the clientcommunication.
It's the one hour clientconsult calls.
That's all the editing time.
It's the actual shoot time.
It's the order appointmentafter it's delivering the
products.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
So that is my time per client right now 13 15 oh
yeah, 100 divided by 15 hours,so you're making 13 an hour.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Initially, that would be that great god bless the
person who told you to raiseyour prices.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Huh yes, yes, right, and the the inner work that
happened to be able to finallyfeel okay with it.
I feel like half of the battleis just your mindset of being
willing to up prices.
But yeah, I was literallymaking and that was before
expenses, so you get 13 an hour.
But then you've got galleryhosting fees.
You've got like creative cloud,the Adobe software expenses,
(09:07):
you've got prop expenses, you'vegot gas and mileage to drive to
the sessions there's.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
so many expenses Hour and a half Shoot away yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, right, like three hours round trip driving.
Oh so the expenses?
Yeah, so I wasn't makinganything and I didn't know my
numbers when I started.
I was just very take whatevercomes and I was just so excited
to shoot.
I love photography and I didtake weddings which were more
than 200.
I had those.
About 1500 is what I wascharging, but that was a 10-hour
(09:36):
day and then you have all theediting after it and it was very
intensive, and then you give upyour nights and weekends,
because engagements are usuallyin the evenings and then
weekends in the summer forweddings.
I tried it all and it learnedthe hard way because it burned
me out.
But that's a lot where ads havecome into play, that I'm
(09:57):
getting inquiries when I'm notnecessarily having to be chasing
people or following up or doingall the things that they say
you need to be doing to get newclients Right.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
That's so cool.
I'm itching to ask about ads.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, me too.
Do you want to go into thebackstory a little bit first?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I love the backstory.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Whatever you want to know, tell us a little bit about
the farm life and how you guysgot there sure, yeah, the not
that, the not ads part.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
So, yeah, my husband and I, well, I left for college.
I was telling you this a littlebit before we hit record here,
uh.
But when I left for college, Isaid two things one, I'm not
going to marry a farmer and two,I'm not moving back to my small
hometown.
And I've ended up doing both ofthose things.
And funny way of that,happening.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I also said I would never move to China.
And then I married this guy andwe were there for almost 12
years.
So I totally get that.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
No way, it isn't that funny how it works, like the
things you say you'll never do.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Somehow they happen, happen.
I also said I would never havekids made in China.
Ha ha ha, and then both of ourkids ended up being born there
as well.
So I think, just for all thelisteners out there, just don't
ever say you're never going todo something, because we are
living proof that that canhappen bit us in the butt, so
keep going oh for sure.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
No, I love that.
I can completely relate.
Yeah, so both of those thingshappened.
Went to college, went forphotography and communication,
met my husband up there.
He was going to school forengineering.
We both graduated.
I tried working corporate withmy communication degree while I
was shooting my $200 sessions.
Surprise, I needed a job on topof being a photographer Big
(11:46):
shocker and we just neither ofus really loved it and it opened
up on the farm.
To come back, I have two olderbrothers and at the time neither
of them it was a good time intheir life to farm and so we
moved back in my husband and mydad farm together now and we
live on my.
It used to be my grandparents'home place where the main farm
(12:09):
place is now.
So we moved on there a coupleof years ago and we renovated it
.
So us and our kiddos are thereand we so far we don't have any
chickens.
I'm working on my husband tolet me get chickens, but we've
got a lot of farm cats.
One just had babies yesterdayon Mother's Day.
So we've got a bunch of farmcats and, yeah, it's just a
great way of life.
(12:30):
We love it.
There's so much space andfreedom and quiet too.
You can't hear any city noise.
You don't hear any traffic.
It's just very peaceful.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Wow, nice Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Wow, that's another world for us.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Yeah, you can come to Minnesota next.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
For perspective, since we got I mean, I didn't
grow up in a small town, Ithought where I grew up was
small, but it was still like173,000 people-ish, right.
And then I went to Seattle,which is where we met, which is
larger but I don't think it'squite over a million, but then
for ever since we've beenmarried, like we lived in the
(13:12):
south of China and it was likewhat?
Nine million.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
No, like three, three to four my numbers are off then
.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
And then we moved to a bigger city, which was what?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
13 or 14 million, 14 million Tianjin and like yeah,
so that's what we're used to.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I cannot imagine Our ties to China.
Actually, my husband's sisteris adopted from China and so
they went over to visit a fewtimes and he's talked about
wanting to take me sometime.
I've never been, but the sheeramount of people to me is is
mind-blowing, especially comingfrom a small town like this.
And I even like when I went tocollege and you said like
(13:52):
173,000 people to me, like yeah,that was like a big city to me,
that was you know just forcontext.
So I'm kind of on the other sideof things, where I'm used to
small town and that feels bigand you're over here with like
nine million people and it'svery, very different yeah, yeah,
just a little, but I did.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I did grow up in Michigan, in a smaller town, and
the house that I grew up in,like most of my life, was on 10
acres, okay, um, and so thatfelt like a lot of space, um
yeah, I mean it was a lot ofspace, you know.
But yeah, like a thousand acrefarm, that's like a whole nother
level stuff.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
No, and that's farm ground too.
It's not like just one big yard.
But yeah, like yeah, it isdifferent, for sure, it's just,
and I'm sure where you're at now, can you see your neighbors?
Yeah, okay, that's normal, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
You can see your neighbors Out our window.
We can wave at Theo, the littlegirl that lives behind us Cute.
We have to tell the kids okay,go to bed, Don't open the window
and wave at Theo.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
It's like this little community, this development, if
you, if you will, yeah, so wecan definitely see our neighbors
yeah, I mean, our yard is small, like if you looked at it, you
were like oh my gosh yeah, butthere's.
There's beauty in all of it,though because there's, I bet
even just like sometimes I lookat our yard and stuff too in the
upkeep that comes with it.
It's kind of a labor of love,because you're the only ones
(15:28):
that take care of it.
So I can see the the freedomthat comes to with not having
that stress yeah, it's a lot ofresponsibility.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
50 foot by 50 foot yard.
It doesn't even have grass.
We put artificial.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
We have artificial grass and we still have, like
the gardener that comes andbloat.
What do you call it?
The leaf?
Speaker 1 (15:46):
blower With the leaf blower, because there's actually
bamboo trees on one side of theyard and the leaves fall down,
fall down.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Well, even better.
Honestly, that sounds prettygreat.
We're currently trying toreplant a full row of trees and
to keep all that watered.
It's two full rows.
Yeah, it's a full-time job.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, ain't, nobody got time for that.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Nor do I know how.
Nor do I know how we digress.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
We want to go back to that.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Low-ticket offer funnel, because I just get lost
in meeting cool, intriguingpeople.
Low-ticket offer Can you run usthrough what three offers make
up your little offer funnel andthe prices of the of those
offers?
And and then I want to know,like, how did, how did you grow
this thing?
What are some mistakes that youhope to never make again?
(16:36):
Or you know?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
got a few of those that.
Why is those?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
the easiest things to think of the lessons I know
like oh, ah, that one hurt yeah,yeah, they're traumatizing you
know, like when you're seeingthat recurring bill come from,
like facebook ads, and you'realmost like scared to open up
your account because you knowit's bad but you don't want to
like face reality.
I don't know if you've beenthere.
I've been there before let itgo.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Oh, I've got, I've totally been there, got a.
This isn't really.
Oh, it has to do with ads.
But so this last week during my, I had my ads at scale course
launch and my husband was well,I guess he doesn't.
I was gonna say I wonder ifthis is okay to share.
I guess you could edit it outif you need to.
But he sent me a text.
It's totally safe.
I think he sent me a text causewe're we share bank account and
(17:23):
stuff and we were just doinglike end of month stuff and it
was, you know, end of Aprilcoming into May.
He's like is this right?
I'm seeing a Facebook chargehere for $1,500.
And it was for one week.
And he's like did we get hacked?
Is this normal?
I was like, oh no, those are myads, that's fine.
(17:50):
But to him who's not in mybusiness account anyways, for
context, like even to hear$1,500 on ads would have had me
shaking in my boots a year ortwo ago, but now because I've, I
have them dialed in and I knewlike this was launch week with
my new course and stuff and so Iwanted to amp them up.
But it is scary to see thatmeta ads charge come through if
you're not seeing a return on itfor sure.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Right, right, if you're not seeing a return.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
But can I ask what I'm sure all the listeners are
wondering, though how much areyou spending average a month in
ads?
You said you spent a little bitmore because of your launch,
but what is the average monthlyad spend?
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Yes, an average month when I'm just like operating
from cause I do very low ticket.
So I usually am about like 500to $700 a month on ad spend.
That's what I budget when I'mdoing a launch or something.
I three X that and I hadalready tested my ad so I knew
which was going good.
So last week was 1500, whichwas not usual not usual but I
(18:44):
knew that it was going to helpconvert with sales and stuff and
I knew that I needed to runthat.
So then this month willprobably be well, I'm well over
it already because we're May12th.
As I say, last I checked I knowI was over $2,000 on ad spend
and then by the end of the monthI'll probably run at least
another $500 because we've gotit.
Yeah, so $ 2,500.
(19:04):
So it'd be about double that,probably Right, 2,500 or three
grand, probably by the end ofMay.
But a typical month I'm about500 to 700 a month.
And that's for all the types ofads I run, because I do lead
gen ads, I do traffic ads totest, then to run into sales ads
.
The sales ads would be my lowticket offers and sales ads
(19:25):
would be my low ticket offers.
And then I also do awarenesswith.
You know, content is popping offor something just to grow my
following that's the nutshell,and you guys know ads, so I can
just say that, and I know youguys get it.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
But no, we do get it, it's so.
So to recap here when you firststarted out, you never would
have seen yourself spending 1500a week on it.
You never would have seenyourself spending 1500 a week on
it.
But now that you do, profitably, it just makes sense because
you're making three X row ads onthat ad spin which
congratulations, by the way.
(19:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah, Congrats.
It's taken a lot of trial anderror to get there, but yes
thank you, I'm sure you'll sharea horror story or two.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, your main offer is called.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
So I have email bundle.
That's 11 emails for portraitphotographers, so that's $27.
I have a session guide which isa template I've created.
So I have a graphic designbackground, so I created a
template and it's for portraitphotographers to be able to like
, send out to their clients.
So you know, if they have a newinquiry come in, they can
(20:27):
adjust it and it can be forportrait clients.
Or, and then I have a Lightroompreset bundle, so it's for all
for photographers, so it'spresets that they can download
and then use in their editing.
So it looks like my editing.
I have a couple other, so thosewould be like my three $27
offers and I run it, my mainoffer, 27.
And I will switch those out onads too, because they're all the
(20:51):
same price point.
I'll run different ads fordifferent offers and then just
switch, like flip-flop, whichone is the order bump and which
one's the upsell and but thosethree together has been what's
been so successful for me.
Of course I've had.
I was saying before we hitrecord again was how.
How I started was a $147 lowticket offer $147.
(21:13):
Yeah, and then I was trying tojump up to a $997 course was the
add-on and I wasn't getting anysales on that.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
So and then I tried I .
It is a big deal and 147 forcontext.
Like in my five isish years ofad experience I've only
successfully for a client runads to an offer one time that
was above a hundred dollars andit was like just a tad bit above
(21:45):
a hundred dollars, but thatsales page was killer and the
offer was killer, but usuallybelow 57 for that initial that
initial offer is because there'slike there's this buy, there's
this purchasing threshold, likeI think the average online
purchase right now online isaround like 37.
It's like once you get abovelike 47, it's just difficult to
(22:09):
sell something to somebody whodoesn't know your business.
So wow, 147, that was yourstart.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
And then an upsell to 997 I know it was people
purchasing that initial offer,though it was hit and miss and I
wasn't running themsuccessfully like I would spend
I.
I was losing money for sure onthat one and that was what I
started with.
I was like two years ago I'dhave to look at my numbers again
, but I know it was enough tohurt and it wasn't paying for
(22:36):
itself.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
So I turned them off.
Where'd you go from there?
Speaker 3 (22:41):
I turned them off and I decided I didn't want to run
ads ever again.
And then I I got stubborn and Iwas like you know what, no, I
do actually want to run adsbecause I know it can work.
I just didn't have theconfidence to run them myself.
So that offer was set up.
I had hired it out, I hadsomebody come in and do all the
paid $3,500 to do the wholesetup, thinking this is my easy
(23:04):
button.
But I didn't know how to managethem.
I didn't know what to look for,I didn't know.
You know, after it was set up Iwas like what am I supposed to
monitor?
And it just felt like I wasbleeding out because there was
so much money going out.
And then I was told for $147offer.
You know it's dollar for dollaron a sales ad, so you got to be
willing to spend at least thatevery day in order to get a
(23:24):
purchase.
So I'm spending 150 bucks a dayto keep that ad going in hopes
that it will gain traction.
It just was a hot mess.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
So after that.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
So I turned them off, I ran and hid from ads and then
I was like you know what, let'stry it again.
And then I switched it to a $47offer Again.
I should have just come andasked you guys.
Really it would have beenuseful at that point in time.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
We didn't know each other back then.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
I don't know, I didn't know, I wish I did and I,
but I kept the order above thesame Cause my, my, my mind was I
really want to sell this course.
I didn't want to lower theprice of the course and my brain
it was worth like three or4,000, but I was like, okay, how
do I run ads?
Well, it's going to be cheaperif I lower my offer and just
(24:10):
because of it's dollar fordollar, that's a $47 ad spend
versus trying to run a sales adto the $9.97.
That's not going to convert.
That's a lot of money out thegate.
That was my mentality at thetime.
But like you said, I mean I cansee it so clearly now that
that's a huge jump.
This is cold leads like toconvert them.
You know, if they're standingin the target checkout, that's
near impossible to get a $50 to$1,000 offer.
(24:32):
So I scratched that when thatwasn't working.
I did get a few more $47 offers, but not enough to keep it
running.
Then I went back to the drawingboard and I was like what kind
of offer would just be fun tocreate and that it didn't have
much strategy behind it otherthan this is what some of the
resources that some of myphotographers were needing that
I was coaching at the time, likesession guide presets, email
(24:55):
templates.
It was things that I wasalready making for them to use.
So I had that offer validationalready because it was things
that they were needing.
So I said, why don't I takethis?
I already know people need it.
I know photographers need itand it's useful because they you
know these, these ones, these Ican't talk these photographers,
(25:18):
I was coaching, we're usingthem.
So after I had more tractionwith that, I was like, okay,
let's turn this into a lowticket.
So then I started and that'swhen I started seeing great
traction 27 offer, 27 upsell, 27order bump nice, dear listener.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
I hope you're understanding.
Most of us have lost asignificant amount of money as
we discovered and testeddifferent you know setups for
our funnel right and I'm supercurious.
You said you ran away from adsbrooklyn.
So where did you get thismindset to go back and try again
(25:49):
?
Because plenty of people runaway from ads after starting to
pay the cost of admissions, soto speak, the ignorance tax, and
they never come back.
But you did so.
What was going on there?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
I mean honestly it.
I don't know what I could creditit to other than I really
wanted to figure it out I I sawit working for so many people
and I think even initially in mybrain it was like to make that
investment worth it of what Ipaid that first person to build
my ads and it wasn't converting.
I was like, okay, well, I gotto make this work somehow.
(26:23):
It's kind of like going untilyou get your money back type
mentality and I think I, once Ihad the knowledge of what I was
looking for, it was just, Ithink that was a barrier for me
is I didn't have the educationor understanding of what I would
Google, search stuff.
And then I started smallbecause I didn't have a huge
(26:55):
budget and I was like, okay,what if I just run?
My lead gen ad started workingvery well and that one converts
at 27 cents a lead.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
So yeah, and that was yes.
Okay, that makes more sense.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
So it's, yeah, small category category, and it was
that was converting really well.
So I've had that ad running andI think I have over 6 000 on my
email list just from that adand it continues to convert.
The highest it's been I justchecked it yesterday was at 61
cents so, and that was adifferent graphic, but I had
tested them.
So anywhere from 30 cents, 27cents to 60 cents.
(27:34):
That gave me hope that one wasworking well.
So I was like, okay, I can makethis work.
All right, lead gen is working.
I was building my email listand then I wanted to go bigger
because that was just a lead gen.
I was like, well, that's notalways converting to sales.
Yes, it did help drive myfunnel a little bit there
because I could.
I applied it from coaching thento photography, because there
are different niches, likeoffering a coaching offer versus
(27:57):
a photography service.
So, in a nutshell, so I'mreally rambling here we're gonna
we're gonna ask questions todive into more of that.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Let's go back to the low get offer funnel though 27
so each your order about yourcore offer and your order bump
and your upsell were all thesame prices.
That is unique.
I have not seen that before,but it's working.
I thought that's a big.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
It's working really well, so I'm not touching it
give us well, before you ask thenext question, give the
listener a quick dive into whatis like normally.
What do people normally do asfar as like pricing for for your
original low ticket offer andthen the order bum?
Speaker 1 (28:42):
ah, yeah, that's a good thing you want me to say so
or do you want me to norm?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
but?
Speaker 1 (28:47):
you could say it if you want.
Normally, you want to say it.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
You want me to say it yeah well, so normally I guess
I'll jump in okay so the, the,the original low ticket offer,
whatever your price range is forthat.
We talked about generally beingunder 50 or so, and then you're
generally, the order bump isless than that.
Right, it's just a little likehere's a little something else
(29:13):
right.
That will help you and that'skind of just like that no
brainer like, oh, of course Ineed that, I'll just, and it's
less than the original offer andso, like, sure, I'll add that
on.
And then after that the upsellis like it's higher than the
original low ticket offer, right, so that you're kind of like,
well, just in case you know youkind of need this other thing
(29:34):
that can really help you fulfillyou know what you are
originally getting and whilethey kind of call it like the
buying frenzy, right, whilepeople are already in this, you
know buying mode.
But then after that you canalso have the downsell, which is
one more offer.
That's like, in case you didn'twant this other upsell higher,
(29:55):
higher ticket thing, then youcan get, you know, this other
lower priced offer.
So that's generally generallyhow it works for anyone who is
curious.
But it's interesting, like hesaid, it's very unique that all
of yours are exactly the sameprice.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
so but then they all serve a very logical purpose.
Not logical purpose, that's notwhat I want to say.
Somebody coming to you who's aphotographer for the email
bundle also could very easilyneed the session guide and, of
course, the Lightroom presets.
So it makes sense.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
And they're all in that same category.
Yeah, so then they fit.
And I have a couple otherguides that I've tried and
tested.
Like for lead gen, I have aguide that helps photographers
walk through how to bring inmore leads that one doesn't
convert, as well as an orderbump or an upsell.
And I don't know if it's the, itcould be the messaging around
(30:52):
it or or.
But the other offers are veryclearly like an item or a
downloadable thing versus atangible or like intangible
strategy kind of that you'd haveto go through and read, to
digest it and then implement it.
So but it's super useful tohear your context to Jamie of
what you guys see normally andit makes total sense.
You know, to have cause, I'veran low ticket with that, just
(31:15):
that guide that walks throughstrategies to bring in leads,
and I run that at $7.
It's an easy sell.
But then my I don't want to golower for an order bump
necessarily because it's alreadypretty cheap.
I've toyed with using that asthe order bump, though at a $7
price range, but I haven't seenmuch, seen much traction.
But it could be the offer.
It could be, just because it'smaybe not clearly articulated or
(31:38):
it doesn't fit with those otherthree very well, but yeah and
it's been working.
So I don't know if it hasanything to do with two.
I mean you can assume all dayprobably.
But if it, because a lot of mycore offers, like my coaching
and my is more high ticket, my,like I have one on one coaching
I do to work with me in thattype of capacity is like fifteen
(32:01):
hundred a month right now, andso it could be because you know
price anchors, a little bit likethe value of coaching versus
getting, I don't know could be alot of of things.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
You guys probably have more answers than I do well
, I mean, if we're, do you haverough stats on of the people
that get the 27 core offer, theemail bundle, like rough
percentages of how many aregetting the order bump to and or
the upsell?
Speaker 3 (32:29):
I don't have in front of me, but it's.
It's enough that my ROI is $81,which is all three, so it's
very, very common, I would say.
And I get Stripe notificationson my phone.
This is not a great way totrack, so this is going off of
what's happened in the last weekit feels, good when you have to
(32:49):
treat it does.
It's great.
It's very common for me to see$27, $54 within and that is one
and then the two added on.
I would say one in three aboutfrom the past two weeks that
have come through, so that'd be30% of uh people that are buying
the $27.
I'll also do both, so thatwould be getting the $27 and the
(33:13):
$54 roughly do%, roughly Allright.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
So here's some rough stats and of course, they're
just stats from me, and althoughwe manage ads, we don't manage
your ads, dear listener.
And also, like you know, if youturn on ads, despite us running
ads and Brooklyn running ads,you most likely are guaranteed
to lose money.
It's not going to make youmoney overnight.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
With that disclaimer aside, it's not an easy button.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Right, it's not an easy button.
It's a good button though tofigure out.
You might want to at least fromwhat I've done for clients open
up a spreadsheet or if you havesomebody on your team and track
that Rough stats, like ifyou're around 15% to 20%, is
(33:58):
healthy, as in people takingyour order bump too, and then
this is cold traffic is thecontext, and then anywhere like
from 5% to 10%, taking yourupsell is pretty standard.
I'm guessing what will happenwhen you track for, like you
know, two weeks is you'll seethat your uptake percentage is
(34:19):
actually quite a bit higher, andif it is, then that means you
can test something that the termis called price elasticity.
I'm sure you're familiar withit, but that's how you see about
where your uptake percentagesfall, and if they're way above
that, I would just start inchingup the price.
(34:40):
You know, like, let's see onwhich yeah, on whatever has like
the greatest delta.
If it's your order bump, that'sjust like 90 of the people are
taking the 27 order bump wellthen, it's time to maybe put it
at 37 and see if that percentageof people who take it drops
significantly, and if it doesn'tgreat, then up it a little more
(35:01):
.
And basically you just kind ofkeep increasing the prices by
small increments until yournumbers really start to fall.
And of course you're doing themath on the back end right To
make sure that you're stillmaking more than you were with
your average order value.
You know the average amount thatsomebody spends with you or
your week over week row ads.
But yeah, I would start testingthat.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
For sure there's probably something that we could
try now and after.
I think my fear even of doingit the first way and then now
it's working and so I don't wantto adjust any of the pricing.
I don't't, which is it's morejust my own mindset stuff.
So I'll have to play with thatand I'm going to go back once we
get off of this and I'm goingto go look at my stats again.
(35:42):
And I want to put and see.
I'll just play with it and seewhat, what percentage, that will
be useful.
Yeah, knowing your numbers.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
It probably is going to be easier if you adjust the
upsell price first, so you havea setup where the upsell is
visible post-purchase, I meantechnically, because you use
Thrivecart right.
Yep, so it's the next screenOkay gotcha, so it's right there
on the next screen.
I would keep the order bumpsame first and test the upsell
Test, increasing the upsellprice and see what you can get
(36:16):
out of that, but also at 3x.
I have another question whichis at 3x ROAS, like how come you
haven't increased ad spend yet,like past that, or have you?
And then seeing likepercentages conversions drop off
.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Yeah, I have.
I think in Dallas we talkedabout this a little bit too.
Like I cranked it up to $500 aday for a little bit and it was
doing well it wasn't 3x though,it was maybe one and a half and
then I got some ad fatigue andso I dialed them back again and
then, honestly, I think becauseit once I updated the ad
(36:54):
graphics again, tested a few andup and they were working, I'm
at a place now I know I'm gonnahave to switch out again pretty
soon because they just don't.
They don't hold, you know, andespecially because I have a
couple audiences that convertreally well.
So if I want to keep usingthose audiences, I know I need
to switch some things out.
But I, if I'm honest with you,it's because I just don't want
(37:17):
to spend that much money and I,even though I know it can work,
I think I'm worried that becausethey've fatigued in the past,
like I don't, it's like I, Idon't want to burn myself and so
I just play small and it'smanageable for me.
Like I, I'm happy with runningit at $27 a day and seeing 54
(37:38):
come in on one day and the nextday seeing 81 come in and then
the next day, oh, it's another81.
Oh, it's like that feels greatfor me and it feels like in my
brain and for anyone listeningto it, maybe like I'm thinking
that's grocery money Great,we're set you.
Or like that's a kid hockeyhockey.
Admission for a camp great.
Like that to me is like extraand so, yeah, maybe it's just
(38:04):
simply because I don't.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
I don't want it to not work, and maybe that it
sounds I.
When you're saying this, whatcomes to mind is someone who has
a lifestyle business that, like, meets their lifestyle choices
(38:29):
and they're not necessarily hereto scale it to 5 million, you
know but like it makes a couplehundred thousand and they're
like this is great, like itmeets my lifestyle balance, and
I think that's what or at leastthat's what I interpreted on
this side of the screen isyou're like this is good at 3x
ROAS, it's not overlycomplicated to manage.
(38:52):
You know the ad creative isn'tlike fatiguing or burning out
because it's being shown toomany times Like it does what I
need it to do and like I couldscale it.
But then I know what comes withthat, which is more hands on,
like creating a new, creativeand testing different things and
keeping.
I mean, well, that's what I doas a full-time ads manager, so I
understand what you're, whatyou're saying.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Okay, you probably see that way more too, and as I
mean the one solely managing allmy ads, I'm also doing a lot of
other things too.
I'm scheduling sessions forclients and I you know, and then
I've got little minions runningaround and I know and a mom of
three, yeah.
That's a lot and so and it feelslike it's something too that I
(39:34):
can trust running now for a weekor more without me having to be
in there worry that I'm losinga lot of money, and so I think
that's another fear too, or justsomething that I'm cognizant of
is like, if I start, if I crankthis up even like last week and
I was spending fifteen hundredin a week I was checking it
every day because I was awarethat this was a good amount of
(39:54):
money coming out and you want tomake it worth it.
I did have some purchases comethrough and it did it paid off,
but it's also because I ran themlong enough.
I think if I were to do thatwith my low ticket, I would feel
the pressure to be monitoringit, like what you guys are doing
, and I just my capacity.
It's a really goodinterpretation of what you said.
It.
It feels good for where I'm at.
(40:16):
I'm happy with how they'reconverting.
I'm even with my workload.
Like another thing with running.
It is like I don't even know ifI have capacity for a lot more
business right now, like I don'thave the time or manpower, so
that would mean I'd need to hiremore people and I don't
necessarily know if I want to.
So it's kind of the like, thesweet spot of like for our
(40:38):
lifestyle right now with littlekids.
It feels really great.
It's doable.
I can still go in and checkwhen I need to.
I can manage it, and that's notto say good or bad.
I mean, there are people thatcould I'm sure you guys could
probably take it and run with itand scale it and grow it, or
people that you know manage it,which is so great too, just
maybe for where I'm at mybusiness.
(40:58):
I I like it kind of how it isand those are wonderful things.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah, to be able to like.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
I like it where it is , I like my business, you know I
like having 3x road, as, like Imean, listen out to life I'm
just like I'm holding my breatha bit, though, as you guys
probably understand, is like adscan change quickly too, and so,
like, even though it'sconverting, I'm thinking what if
this one starts to time out?
(41:26):
But I've also have a process ofthe messaging with the visuals
that seem to convert veryconsistently with this audience,
and so I feel good about aboutwhen I need to tweak it or if I
need to update a graphic orsomething to be able to do that.
Okay, all right.
Well, I do want to say sorryone more.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Thing because she has mentioned several times testing
, and I do feel like this is agood place to insert that we do
have the ad testing cheat code,which is our mini course.
That will be really, reallyhelpful, like everything that
you have talked about, brooklyn,and we just show you exactly
what we do as ads managers tojust go through and
systematically test, because somuch of how you got to this
(42:06):
point is testing.
You're testing the graphics,you're testing the messaging,
you're testing the pricing, youknow all of those things, and so
we have a very simple minicourse, really easy to follow.
So you can grab the link in thedescription below and so we
have a very simple mini course,really easy to follow.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
So you can grab the link in the description below.
What are we offering it atright now, dear listener?
Speaker 3 (42:24):
it's $37 normally and it's $17 for you, Yay they're
an owner.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
What a no brainer if you're listening to this, dear
listener, you deserve to be tohave like a systematic framework
of testing ads so that you knowthat, after you go through like
the four steps, that you'restill getting your highest
quality lead for the lowest costpossible.
And yeah, we do that.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Right, I got a question.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Back to my question.
For you, you were talking aboutthe fear of ads burning out,
which we all have, that.
I mean, they're kind of like awave and we're like surfers,
right, and you find the optimalsetup and you surf that wave
until it dies down and then youhave to paddle back out and find
a new wave and that's likerefreshing ad copy or creative.
Super curious, brooklyn, what'syour frequency at right now as
(43:11):
far as your ads like?
Speaker 3 (43:13):
how often return I, I think it was like.
So I have it capped at two daysevery seven, or two times every
seven days for what they'rebeing shown that's intriguing
but I don't.
I think it was like a 1.25 onmy low ticket here.
I'm gonna pull my answer for mylow ticket.
(43:36):
Is that what you're wondering,or?
yeah, okay, because I I think myawareness ads I set the cap at
yeah, it's two times every sevendays is the maximum that I want
it shown to, and I think mylet's see what my low ticket one
context, while you're lookingthat number up yeah you're
running ads to your selfliquidating offer you're using.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
I just heard you're using the awareness objective
for a campaign.
What other objective, like whatother campaigns, are you using
too?
Speaker 3 (44:07):
I play with all of them, so I do.
I do awareness or engagement.
I do awareness because it's inmy brain, it's the cheapest and
it's kind of like that billboardthat put up on the side of the
road to get more people.
So I use that when I havecontent that performs really
well, so that's just organiccontent that's already getting
traffic.
I usually have a call to actionin the caption and then I use,
(44:29):
like many, chat to automatemessages and, you know,
facilitate getting them onto mywaitlist or whatever, so it's
the cheapest way for me.
I feel like to grow from that.
So awareness I use engagement.
Similarly, I will use it ifsomething is going going well in
my organic content or if I wantmore comments, like I.
(44:50):
Again, I use a trigger word,scale or ads, or you know, 5x or
whatever my program offer is.
I do lead gen ad, just likewith forms, because those
perform so well, for that's howI get the 27 cent to 61 cent
leads.
That's form ad, through leadgen.
And then I do sales ads.
So the only ones I don't messwith are app the app ads,
(45:11):
because I don't have any reasonto unless maybe you know
something I don't.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Unless you have an app I don't know Right.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
I don't have one of those.
I have a farm, but I don't havean app.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Right, oh my gosh.
So hold on, hold on.
Let me give context for thelistener.
You just heard a very healthyads ecosystem, right?
Speaker 2 (45:33):
there.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Like it couldn't get more textbook.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Right.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Awareness ads, optimizing for engagement, and
this would be a great setupinstead of, or the alternative
to, what we always rail onhammer, on rail on, which is
boosting your post instagramplease do not boost your posts
from inside of instagram.
just use the awareness objective.
Yes, you know, optimize forengagement, great, and exactly
(46:00):
what brooklyn said just scrubback and listen, because that's
like textbook when you see a,because that's like textbook
when you see a post that'spopping off or you have many
chat hooked up to a post andit's working well, organically.
Awareness objective, cool Leadobjective to grow your email
list with your lead magnet, andthen sales for the low ticket
offer.
Like this is textbook.
But of course, of course it isOf course.
(46:21):
So what's your frequency on yourcampaign right now?
Or maybe for the past two weeksokay, 1.6, okay not too high
for a cold audience.
That audience size about what?
Speaker 3 (46:35):
let's see like well, this one, let's see.
So I have a couple offaudiences.
One, one I use pixel, so I usemy pixel data and create like a
lookalike or like traffic, sothat one's smaller.
I have it about 3 million.
Benchmark is where I start it.
And then my other audiences arelarger.
Let's see my, I think, my, so Irun one consistently to it
(47:00):
wouldn't be much to you how Ihave it titled of like female 24
to 44 usa photographers.
That one is like 69 million.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
It's a bigger audience oh nice, but it
converts well but it convertswell yeah and you know the
audience size that you're goingafter and clearly you have, like
the age rate, the gender andage range dialed in to like
who's buying your stuff.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
So I like that yeah, um, let's see, I was gonna see
what else my frequency, sothat's one.
So I have a sales ad runningalso for that, the the guide.
I was talking about thestrategies of, like how to get
more leads as a photographer.
So that one's a $7 one.
Yeah, so that's at 1.6 andlet's see what my.
Okay, what did you want for thelast 30 days, or just the last?
Speaker 1 (47:46):
two weeks or last 30 days.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
That's fine, let's see.
1.69 is frequency for my salesads, for, yeah, nothing over.
Is what's you tell me?
Is that good, bad, otherwise?
Speaker 1 (48:00):
for a cold audience that's, let's say, two and a
half million at its smallest.
Like I, start to want to havemore ad creative if, like, the
frequency is going above two forthe listener right now.
When we say frequency, we'retalking about the average number
of times that each unique adviewer sees an ad, and so like 1
(48:23):
.
Like you can't see it 1.6 times.
But, that's what we're talkingabout when we talk about
frequency, and so yeah, Brooklyn, it sounds like your frequency
is not too high.
You had shared that you were abit worried that you're about ad
fatigue.
How many ad creatives, likevideos versus graphics or just
total, do you have running inthose ads in the sales campaigns
(48:45):
right now?
Speaker 3 (48:46):
Let's see.
Okay, so in my sales I have avideo ad and I have two graphics
.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
There, you go yeah.
So I have three.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Are those in the same ad set or are they in different
ad sets?
Speaker 3 (48:58):
Yes, the same ad set, and then I have another.
I usually run two ad setsminimum at a time with different
audiences.
My I tested these as traffic adsfirst and so this combination
of three are three that havedone well with this audience in
the past as traffic ads.
So then I turned it into asales ad, and so that's how I
(49:20):
got to these three.
Now, in another sale one that Ihave running, let's see, these
are two ad sets so I use, likeJasmine Star, these three.
I have two static ads and avideo ad in here, but it's
different.
You guys will get this.
It's different static ads thanthe other audience static ads
(49:40):
because they had differentresults from the traffic when I
tested it.
That's what I've got likepicture so far going right now,
and this is at these frequenciesare doing well too.
This is 1.36, 1.51, 1.34.
My, I was talking about thatlegion ad.
This one's getting higher 2.63.
(50:01):
It's been running for a whiletoo, so I know I'm, but it's
converting well.
It's still at 30, 36 cents niceso honestly.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Well, everything's been honest, but that's how we
lead our sentences, right?
Yeah, I like what I hear.
If you have two different adsets running in your sales
campaign, both for the lowticket offer and each ad set has
two graphics and a video, butyou had said that the graphics
in the second ad set areactually different from the ones
in the first ad set, and whatI'm hearing is that you have
(50:36):
four graphics total.
They're going to differentaudiences, but you have four
graphics total.
If, if at any point, thefrequency goes higher and you're
worried about ad fatigue, justadd in take your winning ad set,
like the first thing I would dois just take my winning ad set
(50:57):
and duplicate it and thenschedule it to go live, you know
, on a morning, early in theweek and or early in the morning
on a day, early in the week,and then just add in more ad
creative variations that weresimilar to the winning ones and
then just keep that ad set onand see if the performance
matches your current ad sets orcome close, like it'd take a
(51:19):
moment, because your current adsets probably have a good amount
of social proof on those ads,you know likes and shares and
comments which definitely helpto increase for us because all
the good comments and they wantto buy, so right, I would just
go like that.
that way you don't have totinker with what's working, but
(51:40):
at the same time you can testadditional ad spend with the
same audience and just similarcreative and see if you hit a.
It still allows you to testbasically is what I'm getting at
and see if there's like anothergood mix of ads.
Speaker 3 (51:56):
See if one of the other two, so just duplicate the
ad set.
So these sales ads, though thatthey're running to different
ones.
I've tested them all withtraffic ads to start.
And so they didn't convert aswell with one of the audiences
but it did better with like Iuse Jasmine Star or like ClickUp
, the audience that's built outfor photographers in that
(52:17):
demographic.
You saying you would recommendduplicating the ad set.
Speaker 1 (52:29):
that is getting a lot of frequency and then keep it
no, change the audience settings.
Speaker 3 (52:32):
I would relisten, I might have, I would keep the.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
So the context here is how could we maybe kind of
start to scale in an easilymanageable way and at the same
time, have different ad creativeto combat this, this frequency
ceiling?
That usually happens wherepeople have this.
I've seen that before filter.
Therefore I'm not going torespond to the ad, and so what I
(52:58):
would do in that situation istake the winning audience ad set
, audience are synonymous inthis case duplicate that ad set
and audience with the same exactad spend, and then we could
test very similar graphics.
Like we're not well, okay, justa little bit okay, tweaking it a
little bit okay, love that okay, measure it for a week yeah,
(53:22):
and see and if, if, if theresult is positive, then great,
you've got another easy tomanage ad set that's performing
well, you know, at around threeX a row ads.
Speaker 3 (53:33):
Yeah, cool, that's helpful, thank you.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
You're very, very welcome your ad sets.
What are you spending per adset again $27?
.
Yep, yeah, ad sets.
What?
Speaker 3 (53:43):
are you?
Speaker 1 (53:43):
spending per ad set.
Again $27?
Yep, yeah, that ad set.
I usually budget of daily adspend $10 per daily ad spend $10
in daily ad spend per ad in anad set.
So if you got $27 and you havethree ads in there, that's like
again textbook.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:59):
Sounds good to me.
What about your linkclick-through rates?
And I think this is one of thefinal stats I'll answer before
we hop off.
For sure, let me check.
I've had fairly greatclick-through rates, I bet they
must be phenomenal.
You look at your cost perresult, for that's the first
(54:22):
metric that I'll look at.
When we'll look at whenmanaging ads and then when we
begin to troubleshoot, our costper result, our cost per sale,
our cost per lead isn't quitewhat we want.
We tend to look next at linkclick-through rate and the magic
stat is if you're at 1%, that'stextbook doing good.
You know, think like hockeystick, okay.
(54:44):
Like 1.25% is amazing,phenomenal, but if you're under
1%, like 0.75%, then that meansyou want to change up some
things in your ad, which I'llgive you a couple.
One could be just to change thesince this is link click-through
rate, the percentage of peoplethat look at your ad, that click
(55:05):
through to your website or yoursales page or your opt-in page.
You could change, just like thetop line or two in your ad copy
, also known as the hook, liketwo or three lines of text,
depending on where your ad isdisplaying, that show just above
, like your graphic or video,just above like your graphic or
video.
You also, best practices, wantto make sure that you do have
your link in the ad copy,because when your ad shows on
(55:27):
Facebook, people can click onthat link in the ad copy.
Of course, when it shows onInstagram, people cannot click
on that link.
But don't overcomplicate it.
Just put the link in the adcopy and just those two things
can be good enough to kind oftroubleshoot and maybe increase
your click-through rate.
Hopefully I've given you enoughtime to find yours, brooklyn I
(55:48):
did.
Speaker 3 (55:49):
3.74 is my is for one of my sales ads.
That's for my pixel audience.
The other audience is at 3.99percent.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
Oh, my gosh, you're crushing it.
So yeah, don't change anythingthere all died vibrate 0.2
slowly scale up a little more adspin did I?
Speaker 3 (56:16):
yeah, you're like, what are you doing?
Speaker 1 (56:18):
I want to send you a screenshot of this, because I
was like you know what you'redoing, it fits your goals here I
would like, if I was an adspanger, I would just well, yeah
, but if I was like say, send meover some more creative.
We're just going to duplicatean ad set, add a little more ad
spend and see like because it'sa separate ad set, you can shut
(56:39):
it off, right, if things?
Go south yeah but as well I see, I only see upside for you okay
manageable upside, not like ohmy gosh, I've created this
monster.
Speaker 3 (56:51):
I gotta look at my ads I think this is validating
for me to hear, even, andbecause I've been in my own
bubble with my ads for so longtoo, and now with the, the
little I'm starting, and I havea lot of photographers who are
starting to implement this nowthat I've put it all together
for them specifically.
But it's, I think, hearingother people's perspective is
(57:14):
helpful for me because I, youknow, I'm tinkering.
It's like it's great for me andI can look up like industry
standards and I can see, butthen it's also like, well, it's
good enough, so we'll just leaveit for now, but thanks for your
insight too, because it'shelpful to just hear from
somebody that's looking at adsall the time too.
Yeah, Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 (57:33):
It's been cool.
It's been cool hanging out withyou.
I obviously knew that we shouldhang out when I met you in
person so that's been great.
Speaker 3 (57:43):
Yeah, I so appreciate you having me.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (57:45):
For sure.
If you want to find Brooklynand chit chat with her more, we
have put her links in the shownotes below.
For sure, go and say hi.
And this is this is the thirdout of many more to come.
So I appreciate you leaving acomment, if you're watching this
on YouTube, of the kind ofthings that you loved hearing
(58:07):
about, because I'll just have onmore online course careers and
coaches like Brooklyn to diveinto their ads, and so this
podcast episode I mean thiscontent is for you, so let me
know please what kind of contentis working the best and that
you love.
Speaker 2 (58:25):
Until then, yeah, be blessed and we will see you next
time, or hear you, you'll hearus you'll see us.
Speaker 1 (58:36):
We can't wait for it.
Take care and again, thank youfor being here brooklyn.
Okay, you requested that I bring on the podcast
successful entrepreneurs onlinecourse creators who are running
Facebook and Instagram ads fortheir business, so that you
could be inspired by how theyset theirs up, especially ones
that have low ticket offerfunnels that are profitable.
Jamie is back with me after abit of hiatus.
Brooklyn Grotty, on the otherside of us and or next to us, as
(00:25):
it were, and in this episodeyou're going to hear behind the
scenes about her successful lowticket offer ads funnel.
It's right now, or over thepast several months, been
getting three X ROAS, as in shegives one dollar to Mark
Zuckerberg and gets threedollars back, and it's pretty
cool.
We've been chatting for thebetter part of 30 minutes now,
(00:51):
but let me share with you alittle bit about Brooklyn before
we jump into her business andher ads and you get to learn
about how she's running them.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I'm pretty intrigued.
Yeah, this is gonna be reallygood yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So Brooklyn is a luxury photographer, business
coach and the founder of the 5XPhotographer that's the name of
her course, a transformationalprogram helping photographers
grow to consistent 5K plusmonths with messaging,
visibility and simple andscalable systems.
She's also the creator of acourse called Ads that Scale,
(01:26):
which is a new course teachingphotographers how to run
low-ticket ads that convertwithout the tech overwhelm and
complicated funnels, which makessense because she's running a
successful funnel and she does alot and she definitely does not
need business overwhelm by alot.
Brooklyn and I met at aconference called the Creative
Educators Conference recentlyand my wife here, jamie, was
(01:49):
quite shocked that I couldremember so much about Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
That I couldn't remember.
He's telling me all this stuffabout her story and then I'm
just looking at him like youdon't remember what time we get
home from swim class every day,but you remember this whole
story.
But it's pretty fascinating.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So we'll dive into that in a moment, right?
So basically, brooklyn, we werejust chatting about how you
grew up in a city that I thoughtwas 2 000 people, but you have
since corrected me and it's 1300people.
You have a farm sixth generationfamily farm that's like a
thousand acres, which to me, acity boy, is mind-blowingly
large and you were in the middleof telling us about the cool
(02:32):
story about how your, you andyour husband met and now he
farms with your dad.
I'm gonna ask you a ton ofquestions about your ads, funnel
, and even your business in amoment.
But first, welcome to the show.
Really good that we get to hangout again thank you so much for
having me.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I'm so excited to finally be hitting record.
It was great to meet you indallas.
It's so fun to be here.
It's great to meet jb too yes,good to have you scooch.
I don't have anybody over hereto tell the Scooch.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I know we're always trying to fit on together.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
So walk us through.
I mean, I know the listenerwants to hear your story too,
but walk us through, please, asnapshot of your business as it
stands now.
What's making up the mostrevenue, what other offers do
you have?
And, of course, give us thebasics, basics of this low
ticket offer funnel, and thenwe'll come back and circle
around later in the episode andjump into the juicy data on your
(03:30):
funnel.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Sounds great, yeah, so kind of big picture in my
business right now I am aboutI'm.
It used to be 100% photography,so I was a photographer.
I've been a photographer for 12years, so I charged about $200
a session for seven of thoseyears.
I didn't have much confidencebehind my pricing around my
structure of it, anything likethat, and so I started.
(03:53):
I truly started at the bottom.
I started just first with freesessions and then $100 and then
$200 sessions, and then I juststayed there for a long time
until I finally hired a mentor,decided okay, I want to grow
this, I want to, you know, makemore money with this.
I wasn't hardly making any tostart with, so then I slowly
upped.
I went, you know, to like 500,$800 sessions and then began
(04:15):
offering prints and products andoffering kind of full service
studio.
I built my studio that I'msitting in If you're watching on
YouTube, I built this in 2020.
So that's kind of when mybusiness went from kind of piece
piecing it together to allright, let's build this into
something profitable.
So kind of getting on a tangenthere, I guess.
(04:36):
But that's kind of backstory ofwhere I came from and then.
So now I have, I had a studioand that kind of is when my
business took a bigger place inour life, even because my
husband's a farmer and at thetime I was.
We have three little kids andso I was home with the kids and
so then I let's see, we did soportrait photography.
That's when I transitioned tolike a thousand two thousand
dollar price range and offeringmore full service.
(04:59):
So I bring in hair and makeup,I do.
I have a client closet, I helpstyle and then I help do wall
art design.
So I do.
I have a client closet, I helpstyle, and then I help do wall
art design.
So I do custom collages forfamilies to display in their
home.
So that's a big part of myportrait work.
So that would be like was ahundred percent of my income.
Up until about two years ago,after I built my studio, I
started getting more questionsProbably like you guys get to
(05:20):
sometimes like how are you doingthis or how are you running
your business?
Kind of just off the cuffpeople asking to be mentored.
I did a lot of that for abouttwo years and then I was getting
enough increases like, okay,let's step into coaching more.
I really love teaching, so Istarted coaching about two years
ago and now that takes up over50% of my business and the other
(05:42):
50% is photography.
So my coaching seems to begrowing and I'm really enjoying
it and I, so I've cut back onsessions and I I mostly just
take recurring clients.
Now my summer is pretty muchfull.
I have about two spots open inJuly right now, but June to
August is full with recurringclients, and so then the rest of
(06:05):
my income is coaching, and soto funnel coaching and even to
get clients in the door forphotography, I turned to ads, so
we've got a story there too,but anyways.
I'll stop talking for a minute.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
So not only are you using ads to the low ticket
offer funnel, but you're alsousing ads to fuel.
Then what discovery calls?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Or how do you get your clients in the photography
business?
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah, great question.
So I do lead gen ads to somesort of freebie or incentive, a
discount, get them onto an emaillist and then I nurture them.
I find most success when I'mreaching out individually to
them or connecting with them.
So I'll ask for their Instagramhandle and then go give them a
follow or drop them a message.
(06:48):
Within my area, of course, I'mrural, so a lot of my clients
are about an hour and a halfaway.
I've chosen a target market tocentralize my ads around, since
it's location based, and thecool thing with running ads is
that even if you're running likea lead gen ad, I still get
messages from people who justsee the ad and they're not
(07:10):
necessarily clicking through thefunnel to go through my system.
They're just sending me amessage I just got.
I had a discovery call lastweek actually, of a med spa and
they saw one of my ads and,instead of booking me for a
session, they're like could youhelp us with ad strategy?
So now they're wanting me tonot only come to a brand session
for them to take their photos,but they're also because I run
(07:32):
ads, and they see me talkingabout ads like could you help us
with that?
So I feel like there's a lot ofbenefits from running ads just
beyond the actual funnel of thead, you know, whether it just dm
conversations or peopleinterested or just getting more
like follows, more awarenesskind of helps me build my, build
, my business that way that isso cool.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
You said you started out from like the bottom, as in
doing 200 dollar sessions,photography sessions.
Can you give us some context oflike what a session involves
and how many hours was that persession?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Oh, good question.
So I average now per session.
I'm spending about 15 hours perclient.
That's all the clientcommunication.
It's the one hour clientconsult calls.
That's all the editing time.
It's the actual shoot time.
It's the order appointmentafter it's delivering the
products.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
So that is my time per client right now 13 15 oh
yeah, 100 divided by 15 hours,so you're making 13 an hour.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Initially, that would be that great god bless the
person who told you to raiseyour prices.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Huh yes, yes, right, and the the inner work that
happened to be able to finallyfeel okay with it.
I feel like half of the battleis just your mindset of being
willing to up prices.
But yeah, I was literallymaking and that was before
expenses, so you get 13 an hour.
But then you've got galleryhosting fees.
You've got like creative cloud,the Adobe software expenses,
(09:07):
you've got prop expenses, you'vegot gas and mileage to drive to
the sessions there's.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
so many expenses Hour and a half Shoot away yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
Yeah, right, like three hours round trip driving.
Oh so the expenses?
Yeah, so I wasn't makinganything and I didn't know my
numbers when I started.
I was just very take whatevercomes and I was just so excited
to shoot.
I love photography and I didtake weddings which were more
than 200.
I had those.
About 1500 is what I wascharging, but that was a 10-hour
(09:36):
day and then you have all theediting after it and it was very
intensive, and then you give upyour nights and weekends,
because engagements are usuallyin the evenings and then
weekends in the summer forweddings.
I tried it all and it learnedthe hard way because it burned
me out.
But that's a lot where ads havecome into play, that I'm
(09:57):
getting inquiries when I'm notnecessarily having to be chasing
people or following up or doingall the things that they say
you need to be doing to get newclients Right.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
That's so cool.
I'm itching to ask about ads.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, me too.
Do you want to go into thebackstory a little bit first?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
I love the backstory.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Whatever you want to know, tell us a little bit about
the farm life and how you guysgot there sure, yeah, the not
that, the not ads part.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
So, yeah, my husband and I, well, I left for college.
I was telling you this a littlebit before we hit record here,
uh.
But when I left for college, Isaid two things one, I'm not
going to marry a farmer and two,I'm not moving back to my small
hometown.
And I've ended up doing both ofthose things.
And funny way of that,happening.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I also said I would never move to China.
And then I married this guy andwe were there for almost 12
years.
So I totally get that.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
No way, it isn't that funny how it works, like the
things you say you'll never do.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Somehow they happen, happen.
I also said I would never havekids made in China.
Ha ha ha, and then both of ourkids ended up being born there
as well.
So I think, just for all thelisteners out there, just don't
ever say you're never going todo something, because we are
living proof that that canhappen bit us in the butt, so
keep going oh for sure.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
No, I love that.
I can completely relate.
Yeah, so both of those thingshappened.
Went to college, went forphotography and communication,
met my husband up there.
He was going to school forengineering.
We both graduated.
I tried working corporate withmy communication degree while I
was shooting my $200 sessions.
Surprise, I needed a job on topof being a photographer Big
(11:46):
shocker and we just neither ofus really loved it and it opened
up on the farm.
To come back, I have two olderbrothers and at the time neither
of them it was a good time intheir life to farm and so we
moved back in my husband and mydad farm together now and we
live on my.
It used to be my grandparents'home place where the main farm
(12:09):
place is now.
So we moved on there a coupleof years ago and we renovated it
.
So us and our kiddos are thereand we so far we don't have any
chickens.
I'm working on my husband tolet me get chickens, but we've
got a lot of farm cats.
One just had babies yesterdayon Mother's Day.
So we've got a bunch of farmcats and, yeah, it's just a
great way of life.
(12:30):
We love it.
There's so much space andfreedom and quiet too.
You can't hear any city noise.
You don't hear any traffic.
It's just very peaceful.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Wow, nice Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Wow, that's another world for us.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Yeah, you can come to Minnesota next.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
For perspective, since we got I mean, I didn't
grow up in a small town, Ithought where I grew up was
small, but it was still like173,000 people-ish, right.
And then I went to Seattle,which is where we met, which is
larger but I don't think it'squite over a million, but then
for ever since we've beenmarried, like we lived in the
(13:12):
south of China and it was likewhat?
Nine million.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
No, like three, three to four my numbers are off then
.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
And then we moved to a bigger city, which was what?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
13 or 14 million, 14 million Tianjin and like yeah,
so that's what we're used to.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
I cannot imagine Our ties to China.
Actually, my husband's sisteris adopted from China and so
they went over to visit a fewtimes and he's talked about
wanting to take me sometime.
I've never been, but the sheeramount of people to me is is
mind-blowing, especially comingfrom a small town like this.
And I even like when I went tocollege and you said like
(13:52):
173,000 people to me, like yeah,that was like a big city to me,
that was you know just forcontext.
So I'm kind of on the other sideof things, where I'm used to
small town and that feels bigand you're over here with like
nine million people and it'svery, very different yeah, yeah,
just a little, but I did.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I did grow up in Michigan, in a smaller town, and
the house that I grew up in,like most of my life, was on 10
acres, okay, um, and so thatfelt like a lot of space, um
yeah, I mean it was a lot ofspace, you know.
But yeah, like a thousand acrefarm, that's like a whole nother
level stuff.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
No, and that's farm ground too.
It's not like just one big yard.
But yeah, like yeah, it isdifferent, for sure, it's just,
and I'm sure where you're at now, can you see your neighbors?
Yeah, okay, that's normal, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
You can see your neighbors Out our window.
We can wave at Theo, the littlegirl that lives behind us Cute.
We have to tell the kids okay,go to bed, Don't open the window
and wave at Theo.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
It's like this little community, this development, if
you, if you will, yeah, so wecan definitely see our neighbors
yeah, I mean, our yard is small, like if you looked at it, you
were like oh my gosh yeah, butthere's.
There's beauty in all of it,though because there's, I bet
even just like sometimes I lookat our yard and stuff too in the
upkeep that comes with it.
It's kind of a labor of love,because you're the only ones
(15:28):
that take care of it.
So I can see the the freedomthat comes to with not having
that stress yeah, it's a lot ofresponsibility.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
50 foot by 50 foot yard.
It doesn't even have grass.
We put artificial.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
We have artificial grass and we still have, like
the gardener that comes andbloat.
What do you call it?
The leaf?
Speaker 1 (15:46):
blower With the leaf blower, because there's actually
bamboo trees on one side of theyard and the leaves fall down,
fall down.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Well, even better.
Honestly, that sounds prettygreat.
We're currently trying toreplant a full row of trees and
to keep all that watered.
It's two full rows.
Yeah, it's a full-time job.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, ain't, nobody got time for that.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Nor do I know how.
Nor do I know how we digress.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
We want to go back to that.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Low-ticket offer funnel, because I just get lost
in meeting cool, intriguingpeople.
Low-ticket offer Can you run usthrough what three offers make
up your little offer funnel andthe prices of the of those
offers?
And and then I want to know,like, how did, how did you grow
this thing?
What are some mistakes that youhope to never make again?
(16:36):
Or you know?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
got a few of those that.
Why is those?
Speaker 1 (16:40):
the easiest things to think of the lessons I know
like oh, ah, that one hurt yeah,yeah, they're traumatizing you
know, like when you're seeingthat recurring bill come from,
like facebook ads, and you'realmost like scared to open up
your account because you knowit's bad but you don't want to
like face reality.
I don't know if you've beenthere.
I've been there before let itgo.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Oh, I've got, I've totally been there, got a.
This isn't really.
Oh, it has to do with ads.
But so this last week during my, I had my ads at scale course
launch and my husband was well,I guess he doesn't.
I was gonna say I wonder ifthis is okay to share.
I guess you could edit it outif you need to.
But he sent me a text.
It's totally safe.
I think he sent me a text causewe're we share bank account and
(17:23):
stuff and we were just doinglike end of month stuff and it
was, you know, end of Aprilcoming into May.
He's like is this right?
I'm seeing a Facebook chargehere for $1,500.
And it was for one week.
And he's like did we get hacked?
Is this normal?
I was like, oh no, those are myads, that's fine.
(17:50):
But to him who's not in mybusiness account anyways, for
context, like even to hear$1,500 on ads would have had me
shaking in my boots a year ortwo ago, but now because I've, I
have them dialed in and I knewlike this was launch week with
my new course and stuff and so Iwanted to amp them up.
But it is scary to see thatmeta ads charge come through if
you're not seeing a return on itfor sure.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Right, right, if you're not seeing a return.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
But can I ask what I'm sure all the listeners are
wondering, though how much areyou spending average a month in
ads?
You said you spent a little bitmore because of your launch,
but what is the average monthlyad spend?
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Yes, an average month when I'm just like operating
from cause I do very low ticket.
So I usually am about like 500to $700 a month on ad spend.
That's what I budget when I'mdoing a launch or something.
I three X that and I hadalready tested my ad so I knew
which was going good.
So last week was 1500, whichwas not usual not usual but I
(18:44):
knew that it was going to helpconvert with sales and stuff and
I knew that I needed to runthat.
So then this month willprobably be well, I'm well over
it already because we're May12th.
As I say, last I checked I knowI was over $2,000 on ad spend
and then by the end of the monthI'll probably run at least
another $500 because we've gotit.
Yeah, so $ 2,500.
(19:04):
So it'd be about double that,probably Right, 2,500 or three
grand, probably by the end ofMay.
But a typical month I'm about500 to 700 a month.
And that's for all the types ofads I run, because I do lead
gen ads, I do traffic ads totest, then to run into sales ads
.
The sales ads would be my lowticket offers and sales ads
(19:25):
would be my low ticket offers.
And then I also do awarenesswith.
You know, content is popping offor something just to grow my
following that's the nutshell,and you guys know ads, so I can
just say that, and I know youguys get it.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
But no, we do get it, it's so.
So to recap here when you firststarted out, you never would
have seen yourself spending 1500a week on it.
You never would have seenyourself spending 1500 a week on
it.
But now that you do, profitably, it just makes sense because
you're making three X row ads onthat ad spin which
congratulations, by the way.
(19:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah, Congrats.
It's taken a lot of trial anderror to get there, but yes
thank you, I'm sure you'll sharea horror story or two.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, your main offer is called.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
So I have email bundle.
That's 11 emails for portraitphotographers, so that's $27.
I have a session guide which isa template I've created.
So I have a graphic designbackground, so I created a
template and it's for portraitphotographers to be able to like
, send out to their clients.
So you know, if they have a newinquiry come in, they can
(20:27):
adjust it and it can be forportrait clients.
Or, and then I have a Lightroompreset bundle, so it's for all
for photographers, so it'spresets that they can download
and then use in their editing.
So it looks like my editing.
I have a couple other, so thosewould be like my three $27
offers and I run it, my mainoffer, 27.
And I will switch those out onads too, because they're all the
(20:51):
same price point.
I'll run different ads fordifferent offers and then just
switch, like flip-flop, whichone is the order bump and which
one's the upsell and but thosethree together has been what's
been so successful for me.
Of course I've had.
I was saying before we hitrecord again was how.
How I started was a $147 lowticket offer $147.
(21:13):
Yeah, and then I was trying tojump up to a $997 course was the
add-on and I wasn't getting anysales on that.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
So and then I tried I .
It is a big deal and 147 forcontext.
Like in my five isish years ofad experience I've only
successfully for a client runads to an offer one time that
was above a hundred dollars andit was like just a tad bit above
(21:45):
a hundred dollars, but thatsales page was killer and the
offer was killer, but usuallybelow 57 for that initial that
initial offer is because there'slike there's this buy, there's
this purchasing threshold, likeI think the average online
purchase right now online isaround like 37.
It's like once you get abovelike 47, it's just difficult to
(22:09):
sell something to somebody whodoesn't know your business.
So wow, 147, that was yourstart.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
And then an upsell to 997 I know it was people
purchasing that initial offer,though it was hit and miss and I
wasn't running themsuccessfully like I would spend
I.
I was losing money for sure onthat one and that was what I
started with.
I was like two years ago I'dhave to look at my numbers again
, but I know it was enough tohurt and it wasn't paying for
(22:36):
itself.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
So I turned them off.
Where'd you go from there?
Speaker 3 (22:41):
I turned them off and I decided I didn't want to run
ads ever again.
And then I I got stubborn and Iwas like you know what, no, I
do actually want to run adsbecause I know it can work.
I just didn't have theconfidence to run them myself.
So that offer was set up.
I had hired it out, I hadsomebody come in and do all the
paid $3,500 to do the wholesetup, thinking this is my easy
(23:04):
button.
But I didn't know how to managethem.
I didn't know what to look for,I didn't know.
You know, after it was set up Iwas like what am I supposed to
monitor?
And it just felt like I wasbleeding out because there was
so much money going out.
And then I was told for $147offer.
You know it's dollar for dollaron a sales ad, so you got to be
willing to spend at least thatevery day in order to get a
(23:24):
purchase.
So I'm spending 150 bucks a dayto keep that ad going in hopes
that it will gain traction.
It just was a hot mess.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
So after that.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
So I turned them off, I ran and hid from ads and then
I was like you know what, let'stry it again.
And then I switched it to a $47offer Again.
I should have just come andasked you guys.
Really it would have beenuseful at that point in time.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
We didn't know each other back then.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
I don't know, I didn't know, I wish I did and I,
but I kept the order above thesame Cause my, my, my mind was I
really want to sell this course.
I didn't want to lower theprice of the course and my brain
it was worth like three or4,000, but I was like, okay, how
do I run ads?
Well, it's going to be cheaperif I lower my offer and just
(24:10):
because of it's dollar fordollar, that's a $47 ad spend
versus trying to run a sales adto the $9.97.
That's not going to convert.
That's a lot of money out thegate.
That was my mentality at thetime.
But like you said, I mean I cansee it so clearly now that
that's a huge jump.
This is cold leads like toconvert them.
You know, if they're standingin the target checkout, that's
near impossible to get a $50 to$1,000 offer.
(24:32):
So I scratched that when thatwasn't working.
I did get a few more $47 offers, but not enough to keep it
running.
Then I went back to the drawingboard and I was like what kind
of offer would just be fun tocreate and that it didn't have
much strategy behind it otherthan this is what some of the
resources that some of myphotographers were needing that
I was coaching at the time, likesession guide presets, email
(24:55):
templates.
It was things that I wasalready making for them to use.
So I had that offer validationalready because it was things
that they were needing.
So I said, why don't I takethis?
I already know people need it.
I know photographers need itand it's useful because they you
know these, these ones, these Ican't talk these photographers,
(25:18):
I was coaching, we're usingthem.
So after I had more tractionwith that, I was like, okay,
let's turn this into a lowticket.
So then I started and that'swhen I started seeing great
traction 27 offer, 27 upsell, 27order bump nice, dear listener.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
I hope you're understanding.
Most of us have lost asignificant amount of money as
we discovered and testeddifferent you know setups for
our funnel right and I'm supercurious.
You said you ran away from adsbrooklyn.
So where did you get thismindset to go back and try again
(25:49):
?
Because plenty of people runaway from ads after starting to
pay the cost of admissions, soto speak, the ignorance tax, and
they never come back.
But you did so.
What was going on there?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
I mean honestly it.
I don't know what I could creditit to other than I really
wanted to figure it out I I sawit working for so many people
and I think even initially in mybrain it was like to make that
investment worth it of what Ipaid that first person to build
my ads and it wasn't converting.
I was like, okay, well, I gotto make this work somehow.
(26:23):
It's kind of like going untilyou get your money back type
mentality and I think I, once Ihad the knowledge of what I was
looking for, it was just, Ithink that was a barrier for me
is I didn't have the educationor understanding of what I would
Google, search stuff.
And then I started smallbecause I didn't have a huge
(26:55):
budget and I was like, okay,what if I just run?
My lead gen ad started workingvery well and that one converts
at 27 cents a lead.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
So yeah, and that was yes.
Okay, that makes more sense.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
So it's, yeah, small category category, and it was
that was converting really well.
So I've had that ad running andI think I have over 6 000 on my
email list just from that adand it continues to convert.
The highest it's been I justchecked it yesterday was at 61
cents so, and that was adifferent graphic, but I had
tested them.
So anywhere from 30 cents, 27cents to 60 cents.
(27:34):
That gave me hope that one wasworking well.
So I was like, okay, I can makethis work.
All right, lead gen is working.
I was building my email listand then I wanted to go bigger
because that was just a lead gen.
I was like, well, that's notalways converting to sales.
Yes, it did help drive myfunnel a little bit there
because I could.
I applied it from coaching thento photography, because there
are different niches, likeoffering a coaching offer versus
(27:57):
a photography service.
So, in a nutshell, so I'mreally rambling here we're gonna
we're gonna ask questions todive into more of that.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Let's go back to the low get offer funnel though 27
so each your order about yourcore offer and your order bump
and your upsell were all thesame prices.
That is unique.
I have not seen that before,but it's working.
I thought that's a big.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
It's working really well, so I'm not touching it
give us well, before you ask thenext question, give the
listener a quick dive into whatis like normally.
What do people normally do asfar as like pricing for for your
original low ticket offer andthen the order bum?
Speaker 1 (28:42):
ah, yeah, that's a good thing you want me to say so
or do you want me to norm?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
but?
Speaker 1 (28:47):
you could say it if you want.
Normally, you want to say it.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
You want me to say it yeah well, so normally I guess
I'll jump in okay so the, the,the original low ticket offer,
whatever your price range is forthat.
We talked about generally beingunder 50 or so, and then you're
generally, the order bump isless than that.
Right, it's just a little likehere's a little something else
(29:13):
right.
That will help you and that'skind of just like that no
brainer like, oh, of course Ineed that, I'll just, and it's
less than the original offer andso, like, sure, I'll add that
on.
And then after that the upsellis like it's higher than the
original low ticket offer, right, so that you're kind of like,
well, just in case you know youkind of need this other thing
(29:34):
that can really help you fulfillyou know what you are
originally getting and whilethey kind of call it like the
buying frenzy, right, whilepeople are already in this, you
know buying mode.
But then after that you canalso have the downsell, which is
one more offer.
That's like, in case you didn'twant this other upsell higher,
(29:55):
higher ticket thing, then youcan get, you know, this other
lower priced offer.
So that's generally generallyhow it works for anyone who is
curious.
But it's interesting, like hesaid, it's very unique that all
of yours are exactly the sameprice.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
so but then they all serve a very logical purpose.
Not logical purpose, that's notwhat I want to say.
Somebody coming to you who's aphotographer for the email
bundle also could very easilyneed the session guide and, of
course, the Lightroom presets.
So it makes sense.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
And they're all in that same category.
Yeah, so then they fit.
And I have a couple otherguides that I've tried and
tested.
Like for lead gen, I have aguide that helps photographers
walk through how to bring inmore leads that one doesn't
convert, as well as an orderbump or an upsell.
And I don't know if it's the, itcould be the messaging around
(30:52):
it or or.
But the other offers are veryclearly like an item or a
downloadable thing versus atangible or like intangible
strategy kind of that you'd haveto go through and read, to
digest it and then implement it.
So but it's super useful tohear your context to Jamie of
what you guys see normally andit makes total sense.
You know, to have cause, I'veran low ticket with that, just
(31:15):
that guide that walks throughstrategies to bring in leads,
and I run that at $7.
It's an easy sell.
But then my I don't want to golower for an order bump
necessarily because it's alreadypretty cheap.
I've toyed with using that asthe order bump, though at a $7
price range, but I haven't seenmuch, seen much traction.
But it could be the offer.
It could be, just because it'smaybe not clearly articulated or
(31:38):
it doesn't fit with those otherthree very well, but yeah and
it's been working.
So I don't know if it hasanything to do with two.
I mean you can assume all dayprobably.
But if it, because a lot of mycore offers, like my coaching
and my is more high ticket, my,like I have one on one coaching
I do to work with me in thattype of capacity is like fifteen
(32:01):
hundred a month right now, andso it could be because you know
price anchors, a little bit likethe value of coaching versus
getting, I don't know could be alot of of things.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
You guys probably have more answers than I do well
, I mean, if we're, do you haverough stats on of the people
that get the 27 core offer, theemail bundle, like rough
percentages of how many aregetting the order bump to and or
the upsell?
Speaker 3 (32:29):
I don't have in front of me, but it's.
It's enough that my ROI is $81,which is all three, so it's
very, very common, I would say.
And I get Stripe notificationson my phone.
This is not a great way totrack, so this is going off of
what's happened in the last weekit feels, good when you have to
(32:49):
treat it does.
It's great.
It's very common for me to see$27, $54 within and that is one
and then the two added on.
I would say one in three aboutfrom the past two weeks that
have come through, so that'd be30% of uh people that are buying
the $27.
I'll also do both, so thatwould be getting the $27 and the
(33:13):
$54 roughly do%, roughly Allright.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
So here's some rough stats and of course, they're
just stats from me, and althoughwe manage ads, we don't manage
your ads, dear listener.
And also, like you know, if youturn on ads, despite us running
ads and Brooklyn running ads,you most likely are guaranteed
to lose money.
It's not going to make youmoney overnight.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
With that disclaimer aside, it's not an easy button.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Right, it's not an easy button.
It's a good button though tofigure out.
You might want to at least fromwhat I've done for clients open
up a spreadsheet or if you havesomebody on your team and track
that Rough stats, like ifyou're around 15% to 20%, is
(33:58):
healthy, as in people takingyour order bump too, and then
this is cold traffic is thecontext, and then anywhere like
from 5% to 10%, taking yourupsell is pretty standard.
I'm guessing what will happenwhen you track for, like you
know, two weeks is you'll seethat your uptake percentage is
(34:19):
actually quite a bit higher, andif it is, then that means you
can test something that the termis called price elasticity.
I'm sure you're familiar withit, but that's how you see about
where your uptake percentagesfall, and if they're way above
that, I would just start inchingup the price.
(34:40):
You know, like, let's see onwhich yeah, on whatever has like
the greatest delta.
If it's your order bump, that'sjust like 90 of the people are
taking the 27 order bump wellthen, it's time to maybe put it
at 37 and see if that percentageof people who take it drops
significantly, and if it doesn'tgreat, then up it a little more
(35:01):
.
And basically you just kind ofkeep increasing the prices by
small increments until yournumbers really start to fall.
And of course you're doing themath on the back end right To
make sure that you're stillmaking more than you were with
your average order value.
You know the average amount thatsomebody spends with you or
your week over week row ads.
But yeah, I would start testingthat.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
For sure there's probably something that we could
try now and after.
I think my fear even of doingit the first way and then now
it's working and so I don't wantto adjust any of the pricing.
I don't't, which is it's morejust my own mindset stuff.
So I'll have to play with thatand I'm going to go back once we
get off of this and I'm goingto go look at my stats again.
(35:42):
And I want to put and see.
I'll just play with it and seewhat, what percentage, that will
be useful.
Yeah, knowing your numbers.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
It probably is going to be easier if you adjust the
upsell price first, so you havea setup where the upsell is
visible post-purchase, I meantechnically, because you use
Thrivecart right.
Yep, so it's the next screenOkay gotcha, so it's right there
on the next screen.
I would keep the order bumpsame first and test the upsell
Test, increasing the upsellprice and see what you can get
(36:16):
out of that, but also at 3x.
I have another question whichis at 3x ROAS, like how come you
haven't increased ad spend yet,like past that, or have you?
And then seeing likepercentages conversions drop off
.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Yeah, I have.
I think in Dallas we talkedabout this a little bit too.
Like I cranked it up to $500 aday for a little bit and it was
doing well it wasn't 3x though,it was maybe one and a half and
then I got some ad fatigue andso I dialed them back again and
then, honestly, I think becauseit once I updated the ad
(36:54):
graphics again, tested a few andup and they were working, I'm
at a place now I know I'm gonnahave to switch out again pretty
soon because they just don't.
They don't hold, you know, andespecially because I have a
couple audiences that convertreally well.
So if I want to keep usingthose audiences, I know I need
to switch some things out.
But I, if I'm honest with you,it's because I just don't want
(37:17):
to spend that much money and I,even though I know it can work,
I think I'm worried that becausethey've fatigued in the past,
like I don't, it's like I, Idon't want to burn myself and so
I just play small and it'smanageable for me.
Like I, I'm happy with runningit at $27 a day and seeing 54
(37:38):
come in on one day and the nextday seeing 81 come in and then
the next day, oh, it's another81.
Oh, it's like that feels greatfor me and it feels like in my
brain and for anyone listeningto it, maybe like I'm thinking
that's grocery money Great,we're set you.
Or like that's a kid hockeyhockey.
Admission for a camp great.
Like that to me is like extraand so, yeah, maybe it's just
(38:04):
simply because I don't.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
I don't want it to not work, and maybe that it
sounds I.
When you're saying this, whatcomes to mind is someone who has
a lifestyle business that, like, meets their lifestyle choices
(38:29):
and they're not necessarily hereto scale it to 5 million, you
know but like it makes a couplehundred thousand and they're
like this is great, like itmeets my lifestyle balance, and
I think that's what or at leastthat's what I interpreted on
this side of the screen isyou're like this is good at 3x
ROAS, it's not overlycomplicated to manage.
(38:52):
You know the ad creative isn'tlike fatiguing or burning out
because it's being shown toomany times Like it does what I
need it to do and like I couldscale it.
But then I know what comes withthat, which is more hands on,
like creating a new, creativeand testing different things and
keeping.
I mean, well, that's what I doas a full-time ads manager, so I
understand what you're, whatyou're saying.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Okay, you probably see that way more too, and as I
mean the one solely managing allmy ads, I'm also doing a lot of
other things too.
I'm scheduling sessions forclients and I you know, and then
I've got little minions runningaround and I know and a mom of
three, yeah.
That's a lot and so and it feelslike it's something too that I
(39:34):
can trust running now for a weekor more without me having to be
in there worry that I'm losinga lot of money, and so I think
that's another fear too, or justsomething that I'm cognizant of
is like, if I start, if I crankthis up even like last week and
I was spending fifteen hundredin a week I was checking it
every day because I was awarethat this was a good amount of
(39:54):
money coming out and you want tomake it worth it.
I did have some purchases comethrough and it did it paid off,
but it's also because I ran themlong enough.
I think if I were to do thatwith my low ticket, I would feel
the pressure to be monitoringit, like what you guys are doing
, and I just my capacity.
It's a really goodinterpretation of what you said.
It.
It feels good for where I'm at.
(40:16):
I'm happy with how they'reconverting.
I'm even with my workload.
Like another thing with running.
It is like I don't even know ifI have capacity for a lot more
business right now, like I don'thave the time or manpower, so
that would mean I'd need to hiremore people and I don't
necessarily know if I want to.
So it's kind of the like, thesweet spot of like for our
(40:38):
lifestyle right now with littlekids.
It feels really great.
It's doable.
I can still go in and checkwhen I need to.
I can manage it, and that's notto say good or bad.
I mean, there are people thatcould I'm sure you guys could
probably take it and run with itand scale it and grow it, or
people that you know manage it,which is so great too, just
maybe for where I'm at mybusiness.
(40:58):
I I like it kind of how it isand those are wonderful things.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Yeah, to be able to like.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
I like it where it is , I like my business, you know I
like having 3x road, as, like Imean, listen out to life I'm
just like I'm holding my breatha bit, though, as you guys
probably understand, is like adscan change quickly too, and so,
like, even though it'sconverting, I'm thinking what if
this one starts to time out?
(41:26):
But I've also have a process ofthe messaging with the visuals
that seem to convert veryconsistently with this audience,
and so I feel good about aboutwhen I need to tweak it or if I
need to update a graphic orsomething to be able to do that.
Okay, all right.
Well, I do want to say sorryone more.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Thing because she has mentioned several times testing
, and I do feel like this is agood place to insert that we do
have the ad testing cheat code,which is our mini course.
That will be really, reallyhelpful, like everything that
you have talked about, brooklyn,and we just show you exactly
what we do as ads managers tojust go through and
systematically test, because somuch of how you got to this
(42:06):
point is testing.
You're testing the graphics,you're testing the messaging,
you're testing the pricing, youknow all of those things, and so
we have a very simple minicourse, really easy to follow.
So you can grab the link in thedescription below and so we
have a very simple mini course,really easy to follow.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
So you can grab the link in the description below.
What are we offering it atright now, dear listener?
Speaker 3 (42:24):
it's $37 normally and it's $17 for you, Yay they're
an owner.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
What a no brainer if you're listening to this, dear
listener, you deserve to be tohave like a systematic framework
of testing ads so that you knowthat, after you go through like
the four steps, that you'restill getting your highest
quality lead for the lowest costpossible.
And yeah, we do that.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Right, I got a question.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Back to my question.
For you, you were talking aboutthe fear of ads burning out,
which we all have, that.
I mean, they're kind of like awave and we're like surfers,
right, and you find the optimalsetup and you surf that wave
until it dies down and then youhave to paddle back out and find
a new wave and that's likerefreshing ad copy or creative.
Super curious, brooklyn, what'syour frequency at right now as
(43:11):
far as your ads like?
Speaker 3 (43:13):
how often return I, I think it was like.
So I have it capped at two daysevery seven, or two times every
seven days for what they'rebeing shown that's intriguing
but I don't.
I think it was like a 1.25 onmy low ticket here.
I'm gonna pull my answer for mylow ticket.
(43:36):
Is that what you're wondering,or?
yeah, okay, because I I think myawareness ads I set the cap at
yeah, it's two times every sevendays is the maximum that I want
it shown to, and I think mylet's see what my low ticket one
context, while you're lookingthat number up yeah you're
running ads to your selfliquidating offer you're using.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
I just heard you're using the awareness objective
for a campaign.
What other objective, like whatother campaigns, are you using
too?
Speaker 3 (44:07):
I play with all of them, so I do.
I do awareness or engagement.
I do awareness because it's inmy brain, it's the cheapest and
it's kind of like that billboardthat put up on the side of the
road to get more people.
So I use that when I havecontent that performs really
well, so that's just organiccontent that's already getting
traffic.
I usually have a call to actionin the caption and then I use,
(44:29):
like many, chat to automatemessages and, you know,
facilitate getting them onto mywaitlist or whatever, so it's
the cheapest way for me.
I feel like to grow from that.
So awareness I use engagement.
Similarly, I will use it ifsomething is going going well in
my organic content or if I wantmore comments, like I.
(44:50):
Again, I use a trigger word,scale or ads, or you know, 5x or
whatever my program offer is.
I do lead gen ad, just likewith forms, because those
perform so well, for that's howI get the 27 cent to 61 cent
leads.
That's form ad, through leadgen.
And then I do sales ads.
So the only ones I don't messwith are app the app ads,
(45:11):
because I don't have any reasonto unless maybe you know
something I don't.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
Unless you have an app I don't know Right.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
I don't have one of those.
I have a farm, but I don't havean app.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Right, oh my gosh.
So hold on, hold on.
Let me give context for thelistener.
You just heard a very healthyads ecosystem, right?
Speaker 2 (45:33):
there.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
Like it couldn't get more textbook.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Right.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Awareness ads, optimizing for engagement, and
this would be a great setupinstead of, or the alternative
to, what we always rail onhammer, on rail on, which is
boosting your post instagramplease do not boost your posts
from inside of instagram.
just use the awareness objective.
Yes, you know, optimize forengagement, great, and exactly
(46:00):
what brooklyn said just scrubback and listen, because that's
like textbook when you see a,because that's like textbook
when you see a post that'spopping off or you have many
chat hooked up to a post andit's working well, organically.
Awareness objective, cool Leadobjective to grow your email
list with your lead magnet, andthen sales for the low ticket
offer.
Like this is textbook.
But of course, of course it isOf course.
(46:21):
So what's your frequency on yourcampaign right now?
Or maybe for the past two weeksokay, 1.6, okay not too high
for a cold audience.
That audience size about what?
Speaker 3 (46:35):
let's see like well, this one, let's see.
So I have a couple offaudiences.
One, one I use pixel, so I usemy pixel data and create like a
lookalike or like traffic, sothat one's smaller.
I have it about 3 million.
Benchmark is where I start it.
And then my other audiences arelarger.
Let's see my, I think, my, so Irun one consistently to it
(47:00):
wouldn't be much to you how Ihave it titled of like female 24
to 44 usa photographers.
That one is like 69 million.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
It's a bigger audience oh nice, but it
converts well but it convertswell yeah and you know the
audience size that you're goingafter and clearly you have, like
the age rate, the gender andage range dialed in to like
who's buying your stuff.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
So I like that yeah, um, let's see, I was gonna see
what else my frequency, sothat's one.
So I have a sales ad runningalso for that, the the guide.
I was talking about thestrategies of, like how to get
more leads as a photographer.
So that one's a $7 one.
Yeah, so that's at 1.6 andlet's see what my.
Okay, what did you want for thelast 30 days, or just the last?
Speaker 1 (47:46):
two weeks or last 30 days.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
That's fine, let's see.
1.69 is frequency for my salesads, for, yeah, nothing over.
Is what's you tell me?
Is that good, bad, otherwise?
Speaker 1 (48:00):
for a cold audience that's, let's say, two and a
half million at its smallest.
Like I, start to want to havemore ad creative if, like, the
frequency is going above two forthe listener right now.
When we say frequency, we'retalking about the average number
of times that each unique adviewer sees an ad, and so like 1
(48:23):
.
Like you can't see it 1.6 times.
But, that's what we're talkingabout when we talk about
frequency, and so yeah, Brooklyn, it sounds like your frequency
is not too high.
You had shared that you were abit worried that you're about ad
fatigue.
How many ad creatives, likevideos versus graphics or just
total, do you have running inthose ads in the sales campaigns
(48:45):
right now?
Speaker 3 (48:46):
Let's see.
Okay, so in my sales I have avideo ad and I have two graphics
.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
There, you go yeah.
So I have three.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Are those in the same ad set or are they in different
ad sets?
Speaker 3 (48:58):
Yes, the same ad set, and then I have another.
I usually run two ad setsminimum at a time with different
audiences.
My I tested these as traffic adsfirst and so this combination
of three are three that havedone well with this audience in
the past as traffic ads.
So then I turned it into asales ad, and so that's how I
(49:20):
got to these three.
Now, in another sale one that Ihave running, let's see, these
are two ad sets so I use, likeJasmine Star, these three.
I have two static ads and avideo ad in here, but it's
different.
You guys will get this.
It's different static ads thanthe other audience static ads
(49:40):
because they had differentresults from the traffic when I
tested it.
That's what I've got likepicture so far going right now,
and this is at these frequenciesare doing well too.
This is 1.36, 1.51, 1.34.
My, I was talking about thatlegion ad.
This one's getting higher 2.63.
(50:01):
It's been running for a whiletoo, so I know I'm, but it's
converting well.
It's still at 30, 36 cents niceso honestly.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Well, everything's been honest, but that's how we
lead our sentences, right?
Yeah, I like what I hear.
If you have two different adsets running in your sales
campaign, both for the lowticket offer and each ad set has
two graphics and a video, butyou had said that the graphics
in the second ad set areactually different from the ones
in the first ad set, and whatI'm hearing is that you have
(50:36):
four graphics total.
They're going to differentaudiences, but you have four
graphics total.
If, if at any point, thefrequency goes higher and you're
worried about ad fatigue, justadd in take your winning ad set,
like the first thing I would dois just take my winning ad set
(50:57):
and duplicate it and thenschedule it to go live, you know
, on a morning, early in theweek and or early in the morning
on a day, early in the week,and then just add in more ad
creative variations that weresimilar to the winning ones and
then just keep that ad set onand see if the performance
matches your current ad sets orcome close, like it'd take a
(51:19):
moment, because your current adsets probably have a good amount
of social proof on those ads,you know likes and shares and
comments which definitely helpto increase for us because all
the good comments and they wantto buy, so right, I would just
go like that.
that way you don't have totinker with what's working, but
(51:40):
at the same time you can testadditional ad spend with the
same audience and just similarcreative and see if you hit a.
It still allows you to testbasically is what I'm getting at
and see if there's like anothergood mix of ads.
Speaker 3 (51:56):
See if one of the other two, so just duplicate the
ad set.
So these sales ads, though thatthey're running to different
ones.
I've tested them all withtraffic ads to start.
And so they didn't convert aswell with one of the audiences
but it did better with like Iuse Jasmine Star or like ClickUp
, the audience that's built outfor photographers in that
(52:17):
demographic.
You saying you would recommendduplicating the ad set.
Speaker 1 (52:29):
that is getting a lot of frequency and then keep it
no, change the audience settings.
Speaker 3 (52:32):
I would relisten, I might have, I would keep the.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
So the context here is how could we maybe kind of
start to scale in an easilymanageable way and at the same
time, have different ad creativeto combat this, this frequency
ceiling?
That usually happens wherepeople have this.
I've seen that before filter.
Therefore I'm not going torespond to the ad, and so what I
(52:58):
would do in that situation istake the winning audience ad set
, audience are synonymous inthis case duplicate that ad set
and audience with the same exactad spend, and then we could
test very similar graphics.
Like we're not well, okay, justa little bit okay, tweaking it a
little bit okay, love that okay, measure it for a week yeah,
(53:22):
and see and if, if, if theresult is positive, then great,
you've got another easy tomanage ad set that's performing
well, you know, at around threeX a row ads.
Speaker 3 (53:33):
Yeah, cool, that's helpful, thank you.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
You're very, very welcome your ad sets.
What are you spending per adset again $27?
.
Yep, yeah, ad sets.
What?
Speaker 3 (53:43):
are you?
Speaker 1 (53:43):
spending per ad set.
Again $27?
Yep, yeah, that ad set.
I usually budget of daily adspend $10 per daily ad spend $10
in daily ad spend per ad in anad set.
So if you got $27 and you havethree ads in there, that's like
again textbook.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:59):
Sounds good to me.
What about your linkclick-through rates?
And I think this is one of thefinal stats I'll answer before
we hop off.
For sure, let me check.
I've had fairly greatclick-through rates, I bet they
must be phenomenal.
You look at your cost perresult, for that's the first
(54:22):
metric that I'll look at.
When we'll look at whenmanaging ads and then when we
begin to troubleshoot, our costper result, our cost per sale,
our cost per lead isn't quitewhat we want.
We tend to look next at linkclick-through rate and the magic
stat is if you're at 1%, that'stextbook doing good.
You know, think like hockeystick, okay.
(54:44):
Like 1.25% is amazing,phenomenal, but if you're under
1%, like 0.75%, then that meansyou want to change up some
things in your ad, which I'llgive you a couple.
One could be just to change thesince this is link click-through
rate, the percentage of peoplethat look at your ad, that click
(55:05):
through to your website or yoursales page or your opt-in page.
You could change, just like thetop line or two in your ad copy
, also known as the hook, liketwo or three lines of text,
depending on where your ad isdisplaying, that show just above
, like your graphic or video,just above like your graphic or
video.
You also, best practices, wantto make sure that you do have
your link in the ad copy,because when your ad shows on
(55:27):
Facebook, people can click onthat link in the ad copy.
Of course, when it shows onInstagram, people cannot click
on that link.
But don't overcomplicate it.
Just put the link in the adcopy and just those two things
can be good enough to kind oftroubleshoot and maybe increase
your click-through rate.
Hopefully I've given you enoughtime to find yours, brooklyn I
(55:48):
did.
Speaker 3 (55:49):
3.74 is my is for one of my sales ads.
That's for my pixel audience.
The other audience is at 3.99percent.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
Oh, my gosh, you're crushing it.
So yeah, don't change anythingthere all died vibrate 0.2
slowly scale up a little more adspin did I?
Speaker 3 (56:16):
yeah, you're like, what are you doing?
Speaker 1 (56:18):
I want to send you a screenshot of this, because I
was like you know what you'redoing, it fits your goals here I
would like, if I was an adspanger, I would just well, yeah
, but if I was like say, send meover some more creative.
We're just going to duplicatean ad set, add a little more ad
spend and see like because it'sa separate ad set, you can shut
(56:39):
it off, right, if things?
Go south yeah but as well I see, I only see upside for you okay
manageable upside, not like ohmy gosh, I've created this
monster.
Speaker 3 (56:51):
I gotta look at my ads I think this is validating
for me to hear, even, andbecause I've been in my own
bubble with my ads for so longtoo, and now with the, the
little I'm starting, and I havea lot of photographers who are
starting to implement this nowthat I've put it all together
for them specifically.
But it's, I think, hearingother people's perspective is
(57:14):
helpful for me because I, youknow, I'm tinkering.
It's like it's great for me andI can look up like industry
standards and I can see, butthen it's also like, well, it's
good enough, so we'll just leaveit for now, but thanks for your
insight too, because it'shelpful to just hear from
somebody that's looking at adsall the time too.
Yeah, Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 (57:33):
It's been cool.
It's been cool hanging out withyou.
I obviously knew that we shouldhang out when I met you in
person so that's been great.
Speaker 3 (57:43):
Yeah, I so appreciate you having me.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (57:45):
For sure.
If you want to find Brooklynand chit chat with her more, we
have put her links in the shownotes below.
For sure, go and say hi.
And this is this is the thirdout of many more to come.
So I appreciate you leaving acomment, if you're watching this
on YouTube, of the kind ofthings that you loved hearing
(58:07):
about, because I'll just have onmore online course careers and
coaches like Brooklyn to diveinto their ads, and so this
podcast episode I mean thiscontent is for you, so let me
know please what kind of contentis working the best and that
you love.
Speaker 2 (58:25):
Until then, yeah, be blessed and we will see you next
time, or hear you, you'll hearus you'll see us.
Speaker 1 (58:36):
We can't wait for it.
Take care and again, thank youfor being here brooklyn.
Popular Podcasts
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.