Karin Carr shares exactly how she turned things around by running Facebook & Instagram ads to a low-ticket offer when sales for her high-ticket course dropped during the real estate market slowdown.
- Cut your lead gen costs in HALF with my $37 mini-course–NOW only $17!
- Visit The Art of Online Business website for Facebook Ads help
Karin walks us through her ad strategy, how she tests her funnel, and why her funny video ads perform better than anything else.
She also explains how she increased her average order value to over $100 and what she learned about scaling without burning out.
Watch this episode on YouTube!
Please click here to give an honest Rating/Review for the show on iTunes! Thanks for your support!
Kwadwo [QUĀY.jo] Sampany-Kessie’s Links:
- Get 1:1 Meta Ads Coaching from Kwadwo!
- Say hi to Kwadwo on Instagram
- Subscribe to The Art of Online Business’s YouTube Channel
Karin's Links:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Back by popular request, because you voted that
you wanted to see moresuccessful course creators who
have used and are still usingFacebook and Instagram ads in
their business to bring in thehighest quality leads, the
lowest possible cost, and alsosuccessfully running launches
and self-liquidating offers.
(00:20):
And so in this episode, I'minterviewing Karen Carr and
you're going to get a front rowseat at seeing what happens when
somebody's business goes south,because the market that she's
in and she'll share more aboutthat in a moment the real estate
market has had a very toughtime in these recent years, and
(00:43):
so what did she do when sales ofher main high ticket course
started to falter?
And hint spoiler it isdeveloping, she developed, she
tested and is running asuccessful self-liquidating
offer powered by ads.
It's a great funnel and it'sprofitable, and you're going to
get to hear her story.
(01:04):
The mindset that she had howyou know what I like about Karen
is that she rolls with thepunches and she's not afraid to
create new content and try newthings.
So, by the way, if you don'tknow her yet, karen Carr is the
founder of Karen Carr Coachingand the creator of Video Boss
Agent Academy.
She's a 20-year realtor.
(01:26):
She built her business fromscratch using YouTube.
After relocating to a new citywith no name recognition, she
was frustrated by cold callingand outdated tactics, so she
developed a system to attractclients without chasing them.
In 2018, she launched hercoaching business to help other
agents do the same, and todayshe coaches full-time, helping
(01:48):
agents build freedom-basedbusinesses through video and
smart digital marketing.
Karen is a sought after speakerat NAR, which would be the
National Association of RealEstate Agents.
Right Karen?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
All right.
So she speaks at nationalconventions, state and local
associations, and she has been apodcast guest already once on
this podcast right.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I think it might even be.
I think this is the third time.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
It might be the third time, it might have been once
before.
I was the host, but you're abest-selling author of the book
YouTube for Real Estate AgentsLearn how to Get Free Real
Estate Leads and Never Cold CallAgain, with over 20,000 copies
sold.
And what I like the most whichis not one of your credentials,
but it's the fact that we get totalk today and you and I go
(02:36):
back all the way to when I wascoaching in that mastermind
right.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
That would be 2020, 2020, 2021, right in the thick
of the pandemic.
Welcome back to the podcast,Karen.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Thank you.
Thank you, it's so fun to behere.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
I know it is.
We just started catching up andhitting it off again, I know.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
It was like tell me about the kids, How's the family
?
Who cares about all the workstuff?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
So catch the listener up with some more context
please about what was going onin the real estate market, what
years that was happening andwhat that was doing to your high
ticket core sales, and thenwhat you had to do to transition
into low ticket offer.
And then I'll start pepperingyou with questions about what
(03:25):
everybody wants to know thestats around your profitable
self-liquidating offer funnel.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Okay.
Well, even in 2020, when peoplethought it was a terrible year
in real estate, for me, it wasnot.
It was a great year in realestate because, after we came
out of lockdown, people wantedto move.
They said, like myself included, I do not want to live in this
neighborhood with an HOA anymorewhere they have to tell me
whether or not I can park mymotorhome in my own driveway.
(03:54):
Like, I want to move and I wantto go live in the country where
I can park my motorhome in mybackyard and be all redneck if I
want to and nobody's going tosay anything about it.
So 2020, 21, 22 were great yearsfor almost everybody in real
estate, and I had this programteaching agents how to find
clients from YouTube.
(04:14):
So what I did was I would justmake a video and I would put it
on YouTube and people would findit because of the power of SEO.
They do a Google search.
The video shows up on the firstpage of Google.
It also shows up in YouTube.
Get tons and tons of clients.
And then all of those scandalswith NAR happened and the
lawsuit if you paid anyattention, last year there was a
(04:37):
class action lawsuit againstthe National Association of
Realtors and a whole bunch ofreally big name brokerages where
you can't say something.
Nice, don't say anything at all, right, how did that affect?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
real estate agents.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
We're going to not say something mean about what
this attorney made a classaction lawsuit where he gathered
all of these sellers who saidwhen we went to sell our house,
we agreed to pay our agent acommission, but we didn't
understand that we were alsopaying the agent who represents
the buyer and we feel like wewere lied to.
(05:15):
And so they did this classaction lawsuit and went to court
and NAR lost and they said theywere going to fight it but they
were going back to court andspending so much money on legal
fees that eventually theydecided to just settle and they
said okay, fine, we will settlethis argument and we will say
from now on, when the sellerhires an agent and says I'm
(05:37):
going to pay you X percent,there's all of this paperwork
that says I understand that I'monly paying the agent that
represents me and if anotheragent represents the buyer,
they're going to have to figureout how they want to get paid on
their own.
We're going to decouple thecommissions and that part I
actually have no problem withwhatsoever.
It was all fine.
It was just the way that thislawsuit they made it sound like
(06:01):
we were so sneaky andunderhanded and deceptive and
lying and speaking for myselfevery time I sat down with a
homeowner at the kitchen table.
I explained to them exactly howthis all works.
There was nothing shady goingon, but a couple of people were
convinced like hey, you can makea whole lot of money on this
class action lawsuit.
So in the end it disrupted theentire real estate industry and,
(06:29):
from what I've heard, eachseller that was involved in the
class action lawsuit made agrand total of about $17.
So that was their reward fordoing this and turning the
entire industry on its head.
So after that was all settledand we came through it, it's
been very difficult for realestate agents, and when agents
are not selling houses, theydon't spend money on coaching,
which is when they need it themost.
But they are like I'm notmaking nearly the amount of
(06:52):
money I was making before.
I got to pull back on myexpenses.
I got to stop selling or stopbuying coaching and cut all of
the expenses that I have inorder to weather the storm,
which means that my businessstarted to go down significantly
, because all I had wereexpensive programs.
(07:13):
I had private coaching that wastop tier, and then I had a
group coaching program that wasmid-tier, but I didn't have
anything else to offer people.
So when they were struggling,like I had nothing I could do to
help them because I didn't haveany offers for them.
So it was actually a blessing indisguise, because I realized
that my business was very topheavy and I didn't have anything
(07:36):
on the low ticket side where Icould offer.
People that were alsostruggling like, as much as my
business started to struggle, sowere theirs, and I quickly
realized I needed to havesomething to help those people
too.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Okay, before we, before you share more, can you
give the listener like abreakdown of when things were
going well?
How often were you like?
How were you selling yourcourse?
First of all, like whatmechanism was that and how often
were you doing that?
A year?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I did live launches.
I started out doing them fourtimes a year and then I dropped
back to about three times a year.
I think I tried twice a yearonce, but I felt like that
wasn't.
I didn't like doing it soinfrequently.
So it was typically aroundevery four months or so and my
mechanism of choice was achallenge.
I really liked to do achallenge.
(08:26):
I've tried doing a three-day, afive-day, a two-day.
The best ones I ever did wereusually a five-day challenge.
So it would go Monday throughFriday for an hour and everybody
would sign up for the challenge.
I tried doing it totally forfree.
I tried you know it's $47 orsome nominal fee and they would
come and attend the challengeand then at the end of the
(08:49):
challenge I would say okay, sonow you know what to do and why
to do it.
If you want to learn how to doit, you should come.
Take my program and the bestlaunch I ever did was like
$350,000 in sales.
So it was insane.
It was extremely profitable,did very, very well and every
time I did this five daychallenge it just got better and
(09:12):
better and better and betteruntil it hit the threshold and
then it was less and less andless and less, and just every
successive launch I did gotsmaller and smaller, and so I
was trying all the different doI do two days instead of five
days?
Do I make it paid instead offree, trying all these different
(09:32):
strategies to try to make itwork, but it just every launch
that I did was successful wassuccessively smaller, until I
thought, oh boy, like do livelaunches not work anymore?
Is my program saturated, likeeverybody who's going to buy it
has bought it and that's it andthere's nobody else to buy it.
I got to the point where I justdidn't know what I should do
(09:54):
instead.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Got you and you were using paid ads as part of your
traffic strategy to get leadsinto your launch.
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Now I got to say, most of the time I was only
running ads when I was doing thelaunch and I wasn't very good
about running ads all of thetime.
So I would spend a lot of moneyto run ads to promote that
launch and then, when the launchwas over, maybe nothing would.
There'd be no ads at all forthe next couple of months.
Then we would start over again.
So in retrospect that wasprobably not a very good
(10:24):
strategy, but that's what I didfor a very long time because I
thought, well, why do I need torun ads between the launches?
They're not like.
Anybody could just go to mywebsite and sign up for it.
That was my mentality.
It didn't really make muchsense, but that's what I was
doing back then.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
All right.
So you were using ads inconjunction with organic lead
generation, maybe not listbuilding as much as you knew you
should but, you were having.
This strategy was working, butthere was a point where it maxed
out at did you say, over$300,000?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
That sounds great.
And so then, as it wasdeclining because I forget what
book, but some of the listenerssurely have heard of this thing
called sunken cost bias.
You know, the longer that we dosomething, the longer we'll
wait around and hope and praythat it will turn around or work
out.
(11:18):
I'm curious then how did you,like what was the tipping point
that caused you to say, allright, we're going to well, did
you stop launching completely?
But what caused you to go andstart doing low ticket offers
and develop a self-liquidatingoffer funnel?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Well, I kept doing the live launches and just
monkeying around with thestrategy and the duration, and
should it be a different topic?
Should it be free instead ofpaid?
I really liked when we chargedmoney for people to be there
because it would be a muchsmaller group but they would all
show up.
The show up rate was 50% orbetter, which was amazing
(11:57):
because when I had done thebiggest free challenge I ever
did, I think I had 2,800registrants and my show up rate
was like 18%.
So they would sign up for itbecause it was free, but then
nobody came.
So I liked charging money andhaving a much smaller group, but
they all showed up.
Plus, then I could answereverybody's questions most of
the time because the commentswere not just flying by so fast
(12:19):
that you can't even see whatpeople are saying.
But it got to the point where Ijust thought okay, I think I
spent as much money on the adsas we brought in in revenue.
I mean, we were profitable, butnot by very much, and I just
thought I don't know if this isworth doing anymore because
we're still profitable, butevery launch is getting smaller.
(12:42):
Eventually we're going to be inthe negative.
And then why am I still doingthis?
Does that make any sense at all?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
It does.
It does make sense.
I'm sure there's a listenerwho's been there and maybe
stopped or taken a pivot andtried a different business or
tried to launch a myriad ofdifferent offers.
So you ended up having to cutexpenses, one of which was me,
(13:09):
because I was your ads managerfor a number of these launches.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yes, and, by the way, when I hired you, you said you
can't only run ads duringlaunches, you need to start
running ads more frequently.
And so, yes, I did hire you torun my ads for me because I
didn't know how to do it myselfand you were talking me into
doing this whole list buildingstrategy.
But, yeah, money got tight andit when I sat down and had to
(13:34):
look at the purse strings andtighten those up, it was like,
oh Quajo, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Those were sad times indeed, but I've been cheering
you on from behind the scenesand even like sending you emails
.
Like you know, I'm in yourcorner.
I can't wait to hear how thingsare going, because they're
going to turn around and thatwas why we spent like 20 minutes
before we hit record.
It's because things have turnedaround for you and you put in a
(14:01):
lot of work into theself-liquidating offer funnel,
so do share, because I want tohear and then jump into the
stats what are these low ticketoffers that you developed now?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
So they were products that I already had that I was
giving to my current coachingstudents, the ones in the group
coaching program.
So what I had created were awhole bunch of downloadable PDFs
that agents could put on theirwebsite, so it could be a
relocation guide, a first timebuyers guide, a guide to you
(14:36):
know 10 DIY staging, homeimprovement projects that you
could do yourself to get yourhouse ready for the market.
How do you know if you're readyto go from being a renter to
buying a home, like all thatkind of stuff.
And because I teach peopleYouTube, I would say so make a
video on the topic.
Let's say that you're talkingabout curb appeal and what you
(14:57):
need to do on the outside ofyour house so that when the
people pull up to the curb, thebuyer doesn't turn to their
agent and say, yeah, we don'teven need to go inside, let's
just go to the next house.
Because that happens a lot.
They pull up, they look at theoutside of your house and
they're like we don't even needto go in.
I'm not, nope, this one is notfor me.
So let's say you're making avideo talking about curb appeal
(15:28):
and then your call to do in yourkitchen and bathroom.
That will drastically increasethe price that your house will
sell for.
Click the link below anddownload my free guide.
So this has worked for likegangbusters in my own business
long before I became a coach,just when I was selling real
estate myself.
They work great, but nobodyever takes the time to make them
.
They know that they work, butthey just don't take the time to
(15:50):
do it.
So I made them all and I gavethem to my coaching community.
So I thought, what if I packagethose all up?
I've already got them.
What if I just put them in alittle bundle and I sold them
for like I don't know 24 bucks,24 guides for $24.
And then I threw in a couple ofbonuses at the end and I will
(16:11):
just sell this as a bundle veryinexpensively.
And then I thought, ok, I don'tknow how to run Facebook ads.
I have not run Facebook ads onmy own for at least I don't know
six years at this point, andI'm sure everything has changed,
but I can figure it out.
And so I bought a reallyinexpensive little course that I
(16:32):
just was like needed to knowwhat the differences were, cause
the last time I'd run adsmyself, I think was 2019.
So I was like, okay, what's newin the world of Facebook ads
and how will this work?
And I use Sam cart as mycheckout platform.
And the guys that own Sam cartsaid you can't just sell the one
thing.
You have to have a funnel, youneed to have an order bump and
(16:53):
upsells, because a good amountof people will buy the extra
stuff.
And I showed it to my husband asI was building this out and he
goes that's so annoying, nobodyloves that.
And I said I know, but they buyit.
I know we were like no, I don'tneed that.
No, I don't need that.
No, I don't need.
Oh, but you know what, I doneed that one.
And you add it to your cart.
You did not intend to do it,but it's human nature.
(17:16):
We do so.
I said, okay, I got to buildout this whole funnel.
I don't even know what I wouldoffer.
And one of my mentors I was on aZoom call and I said what
should I do?
And she said, well, what's thenext problem that they will have
?
And I said, okay, after theyget all of these guides and they
go into Canva and they modifythem, now they don't know what
(17:37):
to do with them, so I shouldteach them how to make a landing
page.
She said, okay.
Then they build the landingpage.
What's the next problem thatthey have?
Well, they have to write awhole email automated sequence
that will connect to the landingpage so that it will
automatically deliver the thingthey just requested and it will
follow up with them.
That it, uh, and they don'tknow what to do.
So I should just offer to likehey, copy and paste all of my
(18:00):
emails, all of the stuff Ialready had, right, because I
was using these emails in my ownbusiness.
So it's just a matter ofputting them in a Google doc
where they can copy and pasteeverything.
And the landing page was just amatter of me filming a couple
of videos of go in here, putthis for the headline, put this
for the description, put this onthe button, put a picture of
(18:21):
the thing that they'redownloading.
Here's how you connect it withZapier.
I mean, it was.
It wasn't stuff that took meforever to put together but it
made logical sense of.
You bought the guides, okay, butwhat are you going to do with
them?
You need to put them on alanding page, okay, great, then
we got to do this.
And then my big finale is howare you going to go drive
traffic to this?
Are you going to just postabout it on Instagram?
(18:43):
Are you going to make Facebookposts?
Are you going to do paidtraffic?
I did YouTube.
I can tell you everything youneed to know about having a
YouTube channel.
That kills it bringing inclients.
You should join my groupcoaching program and here's a
one-time only discount.
And so by doing that, theydidn't just buy the $24 package,
(19:04):
they bought that and then a lotmore.
And so, by doing that, theydidn't just buy the $24 package,
they bought that and then a lotmore.
And so my average order valuewent up exponentially.
Like originally when I firstlaunched this whole thing, I
think, I had the main offer andan $11 order bump, and that was
all I had.
And then I added a $14 upsell,and so my average order value
(19:26):
was usually around $40, which isbetter than $24, but it was
still only $40.
And by adding different upsellsand rearranging them and saying
what if, instead of $11, it was$17, and just playing around
with the pricing and stuff likethat?
Now I think my average ordervalue is about $105.
(19:46):
So if I go to buy a $24 product,but the average order value is
over a hundred.
That is huge and so now likewhat that does to your ROAS,
right?
So I'm spending.
You know, I think I spend about$2,000 a day on ads, but you're
making a lot more than thatjust from the front end sales,
(20:08):
and then all of the upsells isjust icing on the cake.
Yeah, it's been like.
It hasn't always been great.
There have been many, many dayswhere the ROAS was in the
negative but then there havebeen days where, like I, was
running a retargeting ad and Ispent $12 on the ad that day and
(20:28):
made $1,100.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Let's pause.
It was like an 86X ROAS.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
That day it was insane 86X ROAS is phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I need to make sure that I'm processing correctly
and maybe this will help thelistener too.
You had me at.
I'm spending $2,000 in ads aday.
That just lights me up as anads manager, but maybe the
listener is like I could never.
So let's hold on and rewind.
Okay, the context here was thatthe real estate market was in
(21:02):
decline and so your sales of thehigh ticket your high ticket
sales were in decline, andbecause of that class action
lawsuit and then the otherthings that we'll just kind of
state clearly, we had somedifferent policy changes from
the presidential administration.
We had interest rates that wereincreasing and some other
(21:23):
things that just made it reallyhard for real estate agents to
make it, and thus your clientsweren't buying the course as
much, and then you had to cutexpenses.
And then you came up with a lowticket offer funnel, a
self-liquidating offer funnel,and what I heard you say was
(21:44):
very telling.
But you basically tooksomething out of your main
program that was doing really,really, really well and that was
like this mini offer about howto create videos that had curb
appeal, right.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
It wasn't even.
It wasn't even an offer, it wasjust a bonus when they bought
the coaching program.
It was a bonus that they got.
I never sold it independently,it was just part of the program,
but I already had it.
So why not try that instead ofcreating something brand new
from scratch?
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
So when real estate agents were struggling and that
was hurting your business quitea bit, you came up with well,
you took the most popular bonusfrom your program.
So you look at the data,basically, and the feedback from
what people were saying, andyou made that the first low
ticket offer.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
And then--, joe, I wish I could say that I was that
strategic about it, it was theeasiest thing for me to do.
It was the thing that wasalready done.
That was the no brainer.
Let's just sell this and seewhat happens.
Let's just try it.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
What have I got?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
to lose.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
What have you got to lose, right?
The next part is you thoughtout, because some listeners
might be like well, if I were todo this, how do I decide what
could be the order bump afterthe core offer and the upsell
and the next upsell?
And I heard you say that youjust kind of spelled it out.
Well, you had a mentor for yourcourse or whatever your mentor
(23:21):
was.
But you kind of hash it outwith them or like okay, the next
logical step, the next thingthat would help an agent the
most would be a landing page,right?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
And then, how do you get traffic to the landing page?
Well, in that case, emails.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Well, how do you follow up with them after
they've gone through the opt-inprocess?
Now we have to deliver thething that they requested and
send them a whole bunch ofemails to nurture the
relationship.
And then the last thing was howare we going to drive traffic
to this entire thing?
I think you should use YouTube.
But at the beginning all I hadwas the order bump I think that
(23:57):
was it the main offer and theorder bump that was $11.
And then I added upsell numberone, and then I added upsell
number two, and then I addedupsell number three and I added
a downsell and it got moreelaborate over time.
And I would just test everythingand see what is the rate,
(24:18):
what's the conversion rate oneach one of these steps.
And if I were to put them in adifferent order, would that make
a difference?
What if I changed the price?
What if we did a split test,where here it's $27, but here
it's $47, and we'll just seewhich one works better?
And you know I would look atthese numbers.
(24:39):
I'm not, I'm a total right brainperson.
I don't love all of this math.
So I literally would go into mySamCart dashboard and export it
and then put it in chat GPT andsay please explain this to me,
Like, just tell me, tell me whatthese, what this means, because
it's too much data and my braindoes not work that way which
one is the best, which one hasthe best conversion rate, which
(24:59):
one is bringing us the mostmoney?
And then what do you think weshould do based on all of this
data and chat GPT would say eventhough your conversion rate is
much less at the higher pricepoint, it made you more money,
so don't freak out.
It might like it went from a50% conversion rate to a 20%
conversion rate, but you stillmade more money because the
(25:21):
dollar amount was higher, sodon't have a heart attack, it's
all fine.
Like Chad, GBT will talk me downfrom the ledge sometime and
it's great.
And then we just run lots oftests to see okay, it's working
really well now, but if Ichanged this headline, would it
be even better?
Or if I reorganize things onthe landing page, on the sales
(25:44):
page, would it be better?
So it's been a whole lot ofjust testing and it's actually
been a lot of fun.
I was very intimidated withFacebook ads at the beginning
because I thought it's been solong since I've done this and
everything is different and Idon't know what CBO means and
all of this kind of stuff, andthen when I got in there and
started playing with it, it waslike, oh, this really, it's not.
(26:06):
It's not that scary, it'snothing to be afraid of.
And if I would just take thetime to every day go in like so
that's my thing is, I get my cupof coffee in the morning and I
sit down and I look at what didwe spend yesterday?
What did we bring in?
What's the average cart value?
How is it all doing?
Are we in the?
Are we profitable today?
Yay, okay, good.
(26:27):
And then I started.
I think I started at 50 bucks aday and then I went to a
hundred dollars a day and I justgradually kept increasing my
daily ad spend.
As I figured this out, if I ranan ad that got nothing, I would
turn the ad off and we wouldtry something different.
But I didn't start with $2,000a day, like we worked up to that
(26:48):
.
I started running the ads atthe beginning of January I think
it was January 4th, so it'sbeen going for about six months
now.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
All right, I can just hear the questions bouncing
around the listeners' mind, thequestions bouncing around the
listeners, the listeners mind,and so I'm going to ask a few of
them.
I really want to know, thoughactually no, I should.
I should kind of piggyback onwhat you said about chat GPT.
I last year had the same thingwhere I was on a coaching call
(27:18):
with a client and we were goingthrough the math of the ads
running to their membership, andit can be complicated.
But what you want to know isI'm running out to this
membership, how long until I'mbreaking even as in for like per
(27:39):
purchase, how many months doesthat person need to stay into
the stay in the membership untilI break even?
And this client had amembership.
They had a email sequence thatwent out automatically right at
the end of the first month thatupgraded a member into an annual
membership, and so they had allthe numbers.
And after trying on my own, itjust hit me I can't crunch these
(28:03):
numbers, I'm just going to givechat all the data.
And it was able to say actually, this math works out.
You just have to wait untilmonth two before you break even
on ad spend.
So basically you just have tofloat the ad, spend until month
two.
There you go.
The reason I'm sharing this isone.
Dear listener, please useChatGPT to crunch numbers.
(28:24):
Sometimes you have to questionit and then it will come back
and say oh yeah, I forgot thatit's so weird, but I also If it
doesn't know the answer, it'lljust make something up.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
And I have to say that If you do not know the
answer, please do not inventsomething, Just say I need more
data from you.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, you got to call it out.
Don't take everything as gospel.
The first response.
But this is leading me to thenext question, though, Karen,
which is did you just have abunch of money sitting around?
Or how long did it take you tobreak even back when you started
(29:01):
, at whatever the initial dailyad spend was?
And just walk us through one ofthe hardest moments, if you
will too, where you almost threwin the towel.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Oh my gosh, that was last week.
I'll tell you exactly whathappened.
Okay, budget and I did thatdynamic creative option where I
think I had 10 differentcreatives and five different
(29:32):
headlines and five differentprimary text options and five
different descriptions and thead was profitable immediately.
I think I was doing.
I did one to a lookalikeaudience and one to an
interest-based audience and forsome reason the interest-based
audience did way better alwaysthan my lookalike audience.
So I just turned the lookalikeaudience off and put all of the
(29:54):
money into the interest-basedaudience and it always did
really well.
But the thing that I hated was Icould not tell which creative
was working.
Like you can't tell when you dothe dynamic and then you go in
and you're trying to look at allyour data, you have no idea
what combination of headline,creative, primary text was the
(30:16):
one that somebody clicked on.
And so when people would leavecomments, I was taking a
screenshot of the Facebook adand like trying to jot down okay
, it was this one and this andthis and this.
And it was super annoying to methat I couldn't track that
because I thought if I just knewthat three out of the 10
creatives were getting all ofthe clicks, I would shut the
(30:38):
other seven off.
But for some reason Meta is notsharing that right Unless.
I just don't know how to do it.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Let me insert something here for context too.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
With dynamic creative when it would.
You just give it a bunch of adcopy, a bunch of visuals and a
bunch of headlines and it wouldcombine them as it chose you
used.
Well, first of all, you'relistening to this episode right
now and you might be, if you'rerunning ads, going into your ad
manager to see it About half ofmy client accounts, as of today
(31:10):
that we're recording this June16th 2025, do not have dynamic
creative as an option anymore.
Meta is getting rid of thatoption, which is sad and also I
will share that in the accountsthat still have it.
We used to be able to look in,to peer into the black box of
dynamic creative and, with acouple of settings, we'll say be
(31:35):
able to see which of thevisuals were leading to sales,
and then you could clicksomething else and see which of
the text the main ad text wasconverting.
And then you could clickanother button and see
separately which headlines wereconverting, and then you could
piece that together and pick oh,these were, but that went away.
(31:57):
You can only see, as of rightnow, if the account even has it
you can only see the ad copythat's converting and the
headlines that are converting,but you can no longer look at
the visual.
So all that is just to say.
If you're having troubletesting and looking at that,
head down to the descriptionbelow.
(32:19):
There is a link and you can getsome coaching time with me
one-on-one, and I can look atyour ads for you.
Now back to what you weresaying, karen.
Please continue.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Okay.
So that was what I started withand it was always very, it was
always profitable.
It was always doing very well.
I just it annoyed me that Icouldn't figure out how to scale
it.
I couldn't really like I'dheard all these things about
don't just go in and double thebudget, you can only increase it
by so much per day and everythree days and all that kind of
(32:51):
stuff.
So I was trying to scale theseads but I never could get past
about $500 a day and have itstill have a positive ROAS.
Nothing that I tried.
I just couldn't ever reallymake it happen.
And that went on for months andmonths and months.
And then I decided well, I'm allabout video, right, my primary
(33:14):
platform is YouTube for cryingout loud.
Why are all of these justgraphics?
Why are all of my ads images?
None of them are.
They're not carousels, they'renot animated graphics.
There's there's no video.
Why shouldn't I try a video?
And I remembered that I hadrecorded a video nine months
(33:34):
earlier that I put on myFacebook business page and I did
absolutely nothing with it andit was funny.
It was to promote a lead magnet.
So go, download the first 10steps to a lead generating
YouTube channel and I made thesilly video and posted it, never
did anything with it and Ithought, well, what if I make
that an ad all on its own andjust see what happens?
(33:59):
And, oh my gosh, people lovedthat video, I guess because it
was funny.
It was funny, it was silly, Iwas dressing up in characters
and doing accents and all thestupid things, and they loved it
.
And I got so many people thatwere opting in for that lead
magnet.
And then I've got a whole backend email sequence that follows
up and made sales from peoplethat were receiving the email
(34:21):
sequence.
So there was no money makingimmediately because I was
optimizing for leads, not sales.
But in the end it did.
It did make money from sellingit through the email sequence.
So I thought, okay, people likethe funny ad.
What if I make a video that isa funny ad for this purpose, not
something that I just madeforever ago and forgot about?
(34:43):
Like I'm going to optimize forsales, not for leads.
That video is ridiculous, it is,it's killing it, it is doing so
, so, so well it when I go intochat GPT and I say here's all of
my stats and now I have, youknow UTM tracking links so I can
see which actual ad did theyclick on in order to make the
(35:04):
purchase.
And they're all coming fromthat silly video they're all
coming from not all, but morethan 50% are coming from that
one ad.
And then all of the other adsare splitting how much money
they're making.
So this one video is making somuch.
I'm like okay, I got to startmaking funnier videos, because
apparently people love this andnot only like.
(35:27):
They get the comments, they getthe likes, they share.
It gets so much engagement.
And then I guess meta justshows it more and more and more,
because that's where all theengagement is.
But then they actually click onthe link and they buy the
program too.
It's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
That's very cool, so you decided to show this video
the light of day.
It was doing great as a leadmagnet as a lead magnet,
basically, or connected to yourlead magnet, and then you remade
it or you just recorded anotherfunny one and that took off for
your SLO funnel ads.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, it was a different, like the.
The topic of the video wastotally different, but it was
the same idea where it was meantto be over the top silly.
It's kind of sarcastic andevery person except for one
person has left an extremelypositive comment.
One person was like buteverybody else thinks it's funny
(36:23):
.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
So there's always those folks.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
There's always that one.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
There always are for some accounts, like I have one
account where we have to go indaily because I don't know but
this niche, they're just superskeptical and there's so many
negative comments.
We just show up Like we wentthrough having the like my
client actually respond to thecomments.
But no matter how my clientwould respond, whether it was
like a snarky kind of like hey,I'm calling you out for like
(36:52):
complete BS, like being a troll,you know.
So trolling the trolls, if youwill or just giving a genuine
answer it's like the commentsjust would be neutral at best or
the replies would be neutral atbest or just attacking at worst
.
And so then we just went tohiding the comments and then we
went to like just launching newads every couple of days, so
there would be no comments.
(37:13):
So, listener, if that'shappening to you, respond to
your comments, because peoplelove to see that the creator is
actually responding and thenmeta sees your responses as
engagement.
But if there's something youjust don't want to respond, hide
it or relaunch your ad and youcan delete the comments.
If you launch your ad and make achange to it, it deletes all
(37:34):
that social proof.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Can I ask your opinion on this?
Sure, so in one of the videosthat I made I said click learn
more to get all the details.
There's a button and the callto action on the button is learn
more.
Everybody types learn more inthe comments and I spend half of
my day going.
I guess I wasn't very clear.
(37:58):
I this is not a many chat thing.
You don't type learn more andit's going to automatically DM.
You have to click the buttonthat says learn more, like
should I just turn that ad offor should I just keep responding
because now it's moreengagement?
Speaker 1 (38:12):
What's the profitability?
What's the ROAS return on adspend on that ad?
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Let me think it's probably not so great on that
particular one, because that'snot the funny ad.
So maybe it's not even worthdoing.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yeah, if the ROAS is negative, like less than one,
then sure turn it off, becauseit's sucking your time.
If it's higher, though, andit's actually generating you
money, then keep it on.
So what's going on, Karen, ismini.
Chat is everywhere, and we havebeen we all have been trained
(38:47):
to comment and then getsomething DM'd.
So, what this could mean ismaybe you want to test it and
actually hook up mini chat to anad and see how that works.
The good news is that you canrun ads pretty cheap to like.
It's the equivalent of boostinga post but not boosting it
(39:08):
through the cell phone.
It's doing the equivalent ofboosting it post but not
boosting it through the cellphone.
It's doing the equivalent ofboosting it in Ad Manager.
Or just be ultra clear that youknow they shouldn't have, they
shouldn't click learn more, orthey should click learn more
instead of typing it.
But that's what's going on.
But yeah, just the decisiondepends on what the ROAS is.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
All right, I'll go look at it.
I ran all of those numbersabout a week ago and I haven't
looked at it since then for thatspecific one.
But it was like lesson learned.
If I'm going to say click learnmore, like click the learn more
button, right, I wish I couldsay it only happened once or
twice and so it was a themproblem.
(39:44):
No, it's happened like 20 times.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
All right, I don't think we ever went over.
What are your?
What are the offers inside ofyour self liquidating offer
funnel priced at.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Cause you have four now.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
That's the final magic four, right Okay.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
So the front end offers $24.
The upsell is $11.
Sorry, the order bump, Yep, theorder bump is $11.
And that one is, it's like alittle, it's not well.
Basically copy and pasteprompts for chat GPT.
So I've made all of these 24guides.
(40:23):
If you want to make somethingthat is custom to your market
and your target audience, butyou don't really know what it
would be, Use these copy andpaste prompts and go into chat
GPT and then you can makesomething that nobody else will
have.
It's specifically custom foryou.
Then the landing page blueprintis it was originally $14, and
(40:44):
then I changed it to $97.
And so the conversion rate wentdown quite a bit, but it makes
so much more money that itdoesn't matter.
So it's at $97 right now, andthen the next one with the copy
and paste emails is 97.
And then my group coachingprogram is roughly $1,000.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Okay, that's with the one-time discount.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Cool.
So you got 24 as the main offer.
$11 is the order bump, and thenyou have two subsequent upsells
at $97.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Each, and then you have a final upsell, which is a
one-time.
How much discount off of yourprogram?
Speaker 2 (41:28):
It's 50 discount, so it's 11.
11 is the the total price andif they say no to that, it has a
downsell and the downsell is 67dollars what was the downsell?
67 dollars or what it's alittle mini course on how to
create a youtube channel in aweekend.
(41:49):
Okay, so it's not thefull-blown YouTube program, but
it's at least create a YouTubechannel that could bring you
business if you started makingvideos.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
That is impressive.
To date that is the longest SLOfunnel of series of offers that
I have seen.
That's six if I was counting.
It is.
You know what I saw recentlyand I have no idea how well this
works because I saw it on acourse that I purchased.
But this lady, she had theabout, so it would be about as
(42:24):
far into the funnel as your main50% discount is, but literally
the downsell off of that was thesame exact program just at an
even bigger discount.
And all she says is I saw thatyou didn't get this on the
previous page but I basically Ibelieve you need to have this
(42:48):
and it will make the differencein your business, so I'm going
to discount it again so that youget it.
Like she's very direct and Iwas like I had never seen a
downsell.
That was just a steeperdiscount on the previous one,
but I bought it at the cheaperpoint.
And again, I'm not saying thisis a great strategy.
I just saw it and I ended upbuying it.
(43:12):
But maybe that's something thatyou end up testing because
clearly you like to look at thedata and see what's working.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Yeah, In fact I just went into my dashboard and I was
looking at it now going okay,so like, how many views, how
many conversions, how manypeople have declined, how many
people have abandoned?
So, out of 352 total people inthe last seven days that looked
at it, 138 abandoned italtogether.
(43:42):
But that means that the other200 and whatever it is, 50
people went through the wholething and either said yes, no,
yes, no.
But the customer, the averagecustomer value, it says is that
right?
That can't be right.
It's saying like $1,300.
Is that correct?
Speaker 1 (44:04):
I'm not sure if that's correct.
I don't think that's correct.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
What is my?
So my average order value is$80 for this week from a $24
product.
So, yes, it may like some ofthe people might be going
through the upsell funnel andthey might be annoyed and they
just close out the whole thingand they leave it and that's
fine.
But there are a lot of peoplethat they come through my email
of they just bought the guides.
(44:27):
Oh, they just bought the orderbomb.
Oh, they just bought the guides.
Oh, they just bought the orderbump.
Oh, they just bought the upsell.
And so when I see those peoplethat are buying three, four or
five things in rapid succession,it's like, okay, there are a
lot of people that just enjoybuying the stuff and they need
the help and even if they addall of it together, the grand
total is like 150.
They they can afford that ifthey are in real estate and they
(44:50):
need the help and they need tofigure out a way to grow their
database and build a pipeline.
That's not an unreasonableamount of money to spend on
themselves and they're doing itevery day, which is really
exciting.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
And selling is serving, and it's what I'm
hearing and what I'm seeing onyour face is that you
confidently believe that, likethe more things that people get
in that funnel, the better offthey are or the higher the
chances of success that they'llhave in their real estate
business.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
I really do Nice, because I get it.
People will buy the 24 guidesand then they go back to the
Facebook ad and they leave acomment and they're like so what
should I do with them?
Now I'm like, well, you need toput them on your website.
You need to have an opt-in pageso that they can give you their
contact information, because ifyou just I don't know you just
(45:42):
one guy, oh, bless his heart heput it in Google drive and then
he copied the public share linkand he went to his YouTube
channel and he put that in alink below the video.
So I'm watching your video andit's like this is great.
I click on it goes right to theGoogle Drive where I can
download that document.
He's not getting my contactinformation because he gave it
away for free, and so I made ajoke video about that one too,
(46:06):
and I was like I remember when Iwas in high school and my mom
sat me down and had the talk whybuy the cow when you can get
the milk for free?
Speaker 1 (46:13):
That's what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
You're giving them the milk for free.
You've got to put it behind anopt-in page.
You can't follow up withsomeone if you don't know their
name and you don't have theiremail.
This is how you build arelationship and you nurture
these people over time untilthey're finally ready to buy or
sell a house.
So yeah, they need this stuff.
I'm just trying to convincethem that they do.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Final question Looking back over your journey
of making the pivot to lowticket offers in light of your
declining sales because of thereal estate market, of your high
ticket offer, and then goingthrough the testing of the low
ticket offer and actuallytesting, like you said,
different orders or likedifferent orders of offers in
(47:00):
that low ticket offer funnel andeven different price points,
what is one final word ofencouragement that you would
leave the listener, who needsmore money in their business,
possibly wants the benefit ofnot being tied down to a launch
and wants like steady revenuecoming in instead of like launch
(47:22):
revenue and then nothing andthen launch revenue.
But maybe they've tried to do alow ticket offer funnel and
it's been tough going.
Like what's that final word ofencouragement you'd leave for
them?
Speaker 2 (47:34):
It's taken a lot of testing to get to the point
where it's working this well andit'd be so easy to get
discouraged, like last week Iturned on a brand new ad and it
was working so well.
It had like a 14 X row ads thatI just said I'm just going to
like quadruple the budget rightnow because why not?
(47:55):
And then completely went intothe negative for the next three
days and I was having heartfailure of like, oh my gosh,
like I'm just flushing thismoney down the toilet.
So it really does.
It takes a lot of testing.
You're going to launch thisthing and maybe hardly anybody
buys it and then you have todecide okay, is anyone even
(48:16):
clicking?
If they're not clicking, thenit's my ad.
I got to go fix my ad.
If they click, they go to thelanding page, but they don't buy
.
It's the landing page.
Is it the headline?
Is it the image?
Like, just focus on one thingat a time.
Are you getting the click?
If not, work on the ad.
If you're getting the click,but then they don't convert,
(48:36):
work on the landing page.
And then, once you get thatworking, just say, okay, let's,
let's try it at two differentprice points and we'll run a
split test and say do morepeople buy it at $11 or more
people buy it at $17?
Let's run it for a week and seewhat happens.
And then you go, you export allyour data and go to chat GPT
and say please put this inEnglish for me.
(48:57):
And it says pick this one.
Okay, got it.
And you don't have to have theentire upsell funnel at the
beginning, literally just startwith the main offer and one
order bump and then, a week ortwo later, add an up bump and
then, a week or two later, addan upsell and then a week or two
later, add another upsell.
So I mean, I spent a lot oftime working on this over the
(49:20):
course of a couple of months tobuild it all out.
But then, once it startedworking and I could see that it
was profitable, and then peoplewill go leave reviews, they go
back to the Facebook ad andthey're like I bought this two
months ago.
These are amazing.
And they leave thisspontaneously wonderful
testimonial.
It's like oh my gosh, this isjust fantastic.
So now I'm at the point, nowthat I know the funny ads are
(49:42):
really working for me I'mthinking how, how, how often can
I make more ads.
How, like the other day, Igrabbed my husband and I said
what are you doing?
He said nothing.
I'm like, good, you're mycameraman.
Come on, we're filming somevideos.
And all I did was record fivenew opening hooks.
And then I just used the samevideo that I had before and all
(50:02):
I did was replace the opening,and so now it's like I have five
brand new videos, but they'renot.
It was only the first fiveseconds were different, and then
the rest of the video wasexactly the same.
So I've got all those runningright now so that I can test
them and see which is the hookthat grabs people's attention
the most.
And then just testing, testingtesting and then going to chat,
(50:24):
gpt and saying like this is thead that's working so well.
Give me some ideas for otherfunny ads.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Testing, testing, testing, testing.
The interesting thing is, I saya quote which is a Thomas
Edison quote, that we miss outon opportunity because it's
dressed up in overalls and lookslike work and it sounds like
you've put in the work.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know that I even consider it
work.
It's kind of fun, right.
You get to be creative and youget to go in and look at, all
right, what is working and howcan I make this just a tiny bit
better?
What if I could increase theconversion rate just a little
tiny bit?
And so I do spend a lot of timelooking at the stuff and
(51:09):
tweaking it and playing with it,but in the end it's been
profitable.
But since I started runningthese ads at the beginning of
January, it's been profitable,and so I almost feel like I'm
getting paid to grow my emaillist.
If I spend a dollar, but I make$1.50, and I do that every day
(51:30):
for months on end I am gettingthese names into my database,
where then when I say I'm havinga flash sale, we're going to
run this Christmas, in July sale, buy something else, and here's
the bonus that you get with itor whatever, and all these
people end up buying it becauseI'm getting thousands and
thousands of names into mydatabase that were not there
(51:52):
before.
It's great, it's a win-win-winfor everybody.
That's the holy grail.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
I mean the best kind of list growth is growing your
list with buyers.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Right, because I've always offered these lead
magnets and they'll go in andthey'll read all of my emails
and they'll reply to the emails.
But they don't always buy andthat's fine, except if you end
up with what I had was adatabase where they charge you
per name that you have in yourdatabase and they say, oh, your
annual bill is coming due andit's $6,000.
(52:28):
They say, oh, your annual billis coming due and it's $6,000.
And you realize that the vastmajority of those people don't
even open half of your emailsanymore because they've been on
your list for so long they juststop opening them.
But if we get buyers into yourdatabase now, like all of the
people that bought in the lastweek, have started on a new
(52:49):
automated campaign and, like,email number one has a 56% open
rate.
Email number two, I think, is52%.
Email number four was like 54%.
That's great, like when you'regetting over 50% open rates from
people that just gave you moneyand now you're going to say, by
the way, I have this otherstuff you should buy too.
(53:10):
And of course we're doing itbecause I genuinely know that it
will help their business and soI don't feel gross about trying
to sell them anything.
It's like.
This was how I built mybusiness.
I can tell you exactly what Idid and why it will work for you
too.
Just let me help you will workfor you too.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Just let me help you.
That is very soundbiteable.
I'm going to chop it up and putit in the intro.
I think I don't think I knowthat when you talked about
testing step-by-step and this isa self-promo ad for the
listener, but that's why I havethe course called the Ad Testing
Che cheat code.
That takes you through theexact same four steps that I use
when I first start a clientaccount, so that you can
(53:56):
systematically make sure thatyou're getting your leads or
sales for the best cost possible, while also reaching a highly
qualified person, and that'simportant.
I heard from you, karen, thatyou you didn't settle for just
one ad or two ads, and youdidn't even settle for only
(54:16):
testing the ads, but you wentand tested the landing page too,
and then prices, so to speak,by split testing, and Bravo.
Well, you deserve all of thesales and all of the peace of
mind and maybe even the dopaminehits that you get daily from
looking at the notificationsthat go up on your lock screen.
Speaker 2 (54:38):
I love them.
I used to have all of the saleswould come into my inbox and
just go straight to a folder sothat it wasn't filling up my
inbox.
And now it's like bring into myinbox, baby, I want to see all
of those sales.
Because when I go to my inboxand it's like bring into my
inbox, baby, I want to see allof those sales.
Because when I go to my inboxand it's like SamCart, samcart,
all the way down it's like yes,this is working and it just
(55:00):
makes me that much moremotivated.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Well, shoot, we're going to end with that.
Thank you very much for sharingall this with the listener, and
if they happen to be a realestate agent then, or just want
to get in touch with you, whereis the best place for them to do
that?
Speaker 2 (55:15):
Well, my website is videobossagentcom and my YouTube
channel is where I am mostactive, so that is youtubecom.
Forward slash, karen Carr.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Thank you for being here and sharing this, karen,
and it was really lovelyconnecting with you again.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
It was great to see you, Kwejo.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
All right, dear listener, until the next time
that you hear or see me, see meor hear from me, take care, be
blessed, and I'll see you in thenext one.
Bye.
Back by popular request, because you voted that
you wanted to see moresuccessful course creators who
have used and are still usingFacebook and Instagram ads in
their business to bring in thehighest quality leads, the
lowest possible cost, and alsosuccessfully running launches
and self-liquidating offers.
(00:20):
And so in this episode, I'minterviewing Karen Carr and
you're going to get a front rowseat at seeing what happens when
somebody's business goes south,because the market that she's
in and she'll share more aboutthat in a moment the real estate
market has had a very toughtime in these recent years, and
(00:43):
so what did she do when sales ofher main high ticket course
started to falter?
And hint spoiler it isdeveloping, she developed, she
tested and is running asuccessful self-liquidating
offer powered by ads.
It's a great funnel and it'sprofitable, and you're going to
get to hear her story.
(01:04):
The mindset that she had howyou know what I like about Karen
is that she rolls with thepunches and she's not afraid to
create new content and try newthings.
So, by the way, if you don'tknow her yet, karen Carr is the
founder of Karen Carr Coachingand the creator of Video Boss
Agent Academy.
She's a 20-year realtor.
(01:26):
She built her business fromscratch using YouTube.
After relocating to a new citywith no name recognition, she
was frustrated by cold callingand outdated tactics, so she
developed a system to attractclients without chasing them.
In 2018, she launched hercoaching business to help other
agents do the same, and todayshe coaches full-time, helping
(01:48):
agents build freedom-basedbusinesses through video and
smart digital marketing.
Karen is a sought after speakerat NAR, which would be the
National Association of RealEstate Agents.
Right Karen?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
All right.
So she speaks at nationalconventions, state and local
associations, and she has been apodcast guest already once on
this podcast right.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I think it might even be.
I think this is the third time.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
It might be the third time, it might have been once
before.
I was the host, but you're abest-selling author of the book
YouTube for Real Estate AgentsLearn how to Get Free Real
Estate Leads and Never Cold CallAgain, with over 20,000 copies
sold.
And what I like the most whichis not one of your credentials,
but it's the fact that we get totalk today and you and I go
(02:36):
back all the way to when I wascoaching in that mastermind
right.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
That would be 2020, 2020, 2021, right in the thick
of the pandemic.
Welcome back to the podcast,Karen.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Thank you.
Thank you, it's so fun to behere.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
I know it is.
We just started catching up andhitting it off again, I know.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
It was like tell me about the kids, How's the family
?
Who cares about all the workstuff?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
So catch the listener up with some more context
please about what was going onin the real estate market, what
years that was happening andwhat that was doing to your high
ticket core sales, and thenwhat you had to do to transition
into low ticket offer.
And then I'll start pepperingyou with questions about what
(03:25):
everybody wants to know thestats around your profitable
self-liquidating offer funnel.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Okay.
Well, even in 2020, when peoplethought it was a terrible year
in real estate, for me, it wasnot.
It was a great year in realestate because, after we came
out of lockdown, people wantedto move.
They said, like myself included, I do not want to live in this
neighborhood with an HOA anymorewhere they have to tell me
whether or not I can park mymotorhome in my own driveway.
(03:54):
Like, I want to move and I wantto go live in the country where
I can park my motorhome in mybackyard and be all redneck if I
want to and nobody's going tosay anything about it.
So 2020, 21, 22 were great yearsfor almost everybody in real
estate, and I had this programteaching agents how to find
clients from YouTube.
(04:14):
So what I did was I would justmake a video and I would put it
on YouTube and people would findit because of the power of SEO.
They do a Google search.
The video shows up on the firstpage of Google.
It also shows up in YouTube.
Get tons and tons of clients.
And then all of those scandalswith NAR happened and the
lawsuit if you paid anyattention, last year there was a
(04:37):
class action lawsuit againstthe National Association of
Realtors and a whole bunch ofreally big name brokerages where
you can't say something.
Nice, don't say anything at all, right, how did that affect?
Speaker 1 (04:52):
real estate agents.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
We're going to not say something mean about what
this attorney made a classaction lawsuit where he gathered
all of these sellers who saidwhen we went to sell our house,
we agreed to pay our agent acommission, but we didn't
understand that we were alsopaying the agent who represents
the buyer and we feel like wewere lied to.
(05:15):
And so they did this classaction lawsuit and went to court
and NAR lost and they said theywere going to fight it but they
were going back to court andspending so much money on legal
fees that eventually theydecided to just settle and they
said okay, fine, we will settlethis argument and we will say
from now on, when the sellerhires an agent and says I'm
(05:37):
going to pay you X percent,there's all of this paperwork
that says I understand that I'monly paying the agent that
represents me and if anotheragent represents the buyer,
they're going to have to figureout how they want to get paid on
their own.
We're going to decouple thecommissions and that part I
actually have no problem withwhatsoever.
It was all fine.
It was just the way that thislawsuit they made it sound like
(06:01):
we were so sneaky andunderhanded and deceptive and
lying and speaking for myselfevery time I sat down with a
homeowner at the kitchen table.
I explained to them exactly howthis all works.
There was nothing shady goingon, but a couple of people were
convinced like hey, you can makea whole lot of money on this
class action lawsuit.
So in the end it disrupted theentire real estate industry and,
(06:29):
from what I've heard, eachseller that was involved in the
class action lawsuit made agrand total of about $17.
So that was their reward fordoing this and turning the
entire industry on its head.
So after that was all settledand we came through it, it's
been very difficult for realestate agents, and when agents
are not selling houses, theydon't spend money on coaching,
which is when they need it themost.
But they are like I'm notmaking nearly the amount of
(06:52):
money I was making before.
I got to pull back on myexpenses.
I got to stop selling or stopbuying coaching and cut all of
the expenses that I have inorder to weather the storm,
which means that my businessstarted to go down significantly
, because all I had wereexpensive programs.
(07:13):
I had private coaching that wastop tier, and then I had a
group coaching program that wasmid-tier, but I didn't have
anything else to offer people.
So when they were struggling,like I had nothing I could do to
help them because I didn't haveany offers for them.
So it was actually a blessing indisguise, because I realized
that my business was very topheavy and I didn't have anything
(07:36):
on the low ticket side where Icould offer.
People that were alsostruggling like, as much as my
business started to struggle, sowere theirs, and I quickly
realized I needed to havesomething to help those people
too.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Okay, before we, before you share more, can you
give the listener like abreakdown of when things were
going well?
How often were you like?
How were you selling yourcourse?
First of all, like whatmechanism was that and how often
were you doing that?
A year?
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I did live launches.
I started out doing them fourtimes a year and then I dropped
back to about three times a year.
I think I tried twice a yearonce, but I felt like that
wasn't.
I didn't like doing it soinfrequently.
So it was typically aroundevery four months or so and my
mechanism of choice was achallenge.
I really liked to do achallenge.
(08:26):
I've tried doing a three-day, afive-day, a two-day.
The best ones I ever did wereusually a five-day challenge.
So it would go Monday throughFriday for an hour and everybody
would sign up for the challenge.
I tried doing it totally forfree.
I tried you know it's $47 orsome nominal fee and they would
come and attend the challengeand then at the end of the
(08:49):
challenge I would say okay, sonow you know what to do and why
to do it.
If you want to learn how to doit, you should come.
Take my program and the bestlaunch I ever did was like
$350,000 in sales.
So it was insane.
It was extremely profitable,did very, very well and every
time I did this five daychallenge it just got better and
(09:12):
better and better and betteruntil it hit the threshold and
then it was less and less andless and less, and just every
successive launch I did gotsmaller and smaller, and so I
was trying all the different doI do two days instead of five
days?
Do I make it paid instead offree, trying all these different
(09:32):
strategies to try to make itwork, but it just every launch
that I did was successful wassuccessively smaller, until I
thought, oh boy, like do livelaunches not work anymore?
Is my program saturated, likeeverybody who's going to buy it
has bought it and that's it andthere's nobody else to buy it.
I got to the point where I justdidn't know what I should do
(09:54):
instead.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Got you and you were using paid ads as part of your
traffic strategy to get leadsinto your launch.
Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Now I got to say, most of the time I was only
running ads when I was doing thelaunch and I wasn't very good
about running ads all of thetime.
So I would spend a lot of moneyto run ads to promote that
launch and then, when the launchwas over, maybe nothing would.
There'd be no ads at all forthe next couple of months.
Then we would start over again.
So in retrospect that wasprobably not a very good
(10:24):
strategy, but that's what I didfor a very long time because I
thought, well, why do I need torun ads between the launches?
They're not like.
Anybody could just go to mywebsite and sign up for it.
That was my mentality.
It didn't really make muchsense, but that's what I was
doing back then.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
All right.
So you were using ads inconjunction with organic lead
generation, maybe not listbuilding as much as you knew you
should but, you were having.
This strategy was working, butthere was a point where it maxed
out at did you say, over$300,000?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
That sounds great.
And so then, as it wasdeclining because I forget what
book, but some of the listenerssurely have heard of this thing
called sunken cost bias.
You know, the longer that we dosomething, the longer we'll
wait around and hope and praythat it will turn around or work
out.
(11:18):
I'm curious then how did you,like what was the tipping point
that caused you to say, allright, we're going to well, did
you stop launching completely?
But what caused you to go andstart doing low ticket offers
and develop a self-liquidatingoffer funnel?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Well, I kept doing the live launches and just
monkeying around with thestrategy and the duration, and
should it be a different topic?
Should it be free instead ofpaid?
I really liked when we chargedmoney for people to be there
because it would be a muchsmaller group but they would all
show up.
The show up rate was 50% orbetter, which was amazing
(11:57):
because when I had done thebiggest free challenge I ever
did, I think I had 2,800registrants and my show up rate
was like 18%.
So they would sign up for itbecause it was free, but then
nobody came.
So I liked charging money andhaving a much smaller group, but
they all showed up.
Plus, then I could answereverybody's questions most of
the time because the commentswere not just flying by so fast
(12:19):
that you can't even see whatpeople are saying.
But it got to the point where Ijust thought okay, I think I
spent as much money on the adsas we brought in in revenue.
I mean, we were profitable, butnot by very much, and I just
thought I don't know if this isworth doing anymore because
we're still profitable, butevery launch is getting smaller.
(12:42):
Eventually we're going to be inthe negative.
And then why am I still doingthis?
Does that make any sense at all?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
It does.
It does make sense.
I'm sure there's a listenerwho's been there and maybe
stopped or taken a pivot andtried a different business or
tried to launch a myriad ofdifferent offers.
So you ended up having to cutexpenses, one of which was me,
(13:09):
because I was your ads managerfor a number of these launches.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yes, and, by the way, when I hired you, you said you
can't only run ads duringlaunches, you need to start
running ads more frequently.
And so, yes, I did hire you torun my ads for me because I
didn't know how to do it myselfand you were talking me into
doing this whole list buildingstrategy.
But, yeah, money got tight andit when I sat down and had to
(13:34):
look at the purse strings andtighten those up, it was like,
oh Quajo, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Those were sad times indeed, but I've been cheering
you on from behind the scenesand even like sending you emails
.
Like you know, I'm in yourcorner.
I can't wait to hear how thingsare going, because they're
going to turn around and thatwas why we spent like 20 minutes
before we hit record.
It's because things have turnedaround for you and you put in a
(14:01):
lot of work into theself-liquidating offer funnel,
so do share, because I want tohear and then jump into the
stats what are these low ticketoffers that you developed now?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
So they were products that I already had that I was
giving to my current coachingstudents, the ones in the group
coaching program.
So what I had created were awhole bunch of downloadable PDFs
that agents could put on theirwebsite, so it could be a
relocation guide, a first timebuyers guide, a guide to you
(14:36):
know 10 DIY staging, homeimprovement projects that you
could do yourself to get yourhouse ready for the market.
How do you know if you're readyto go from being a renter to
buying a home, like all thatkind of stuff.
And because I teach peopleYouTube, I would say so make a
video on the topic.
Let's say that you're talkingabout curb appeal and what you
(14:57):
need to do on the outside ofyour house so that when the
people pull up to the curb, thebuyer doesn't turn to their
agent and say, yeah, we don'teven need to go inside, let's
just go to the next house.
Because that happens a lot.
They pull up, they look at theoutside of your house and
they're like we don't even needto go in.
I'm not, nope, this one is notfor me.
So let's say you're making avideo talking about curb appeal
(15:28):
and then your call to do in yourkitchen and bathroom.
That will drastically increasethe price that your house will
sell for.
Click the link below anddownload my free guide.
So this has worked for likegangbusters in my own business
long before I became a coach,just when I was selling real
estate myself.
They work great, but nobodyever takes the time to make them
.
They know that they work, butthey just don't take the time to
(15:50):
do it.
So I made them all and I gavethem to my coaching community.
So I thought, what if I packagethose all up?
I've already got them.
What if I just put them in alittle bundle and I sold them
for like I don't know 24 bucks,24 guides for $24.
And then I threw in a couple ofbonuses at the end and I will
(16:11):
just sell this as a bundle veryinexpensively.
And then I thought, ok, I don'tknow how to run Facebook ads.
I have not run Facebook ads onmy own for at least I don't know
six years at this point, andI'm sure everything has changed,
but I can figure it out.
And so I bought a reallyinexpensive little course that I
(16:32):
just was like needed to knowwhat the differences were, cause
the last time I'd run adsmyself, I think was 2019.
So I was like, okay, what's newin the world of Facebook ads
and how will this work?
And I use Sam cart as mycheckout platform.
And the guys that own Sam cartsaid you can't just sell the one
thing.
You have to have a funnel, youneed to have an order bump and
(16:53):
upsells, because a good amountof people will buy the extra
stuff.
And I showed it to my husband asI was building this out and he
goes that's so annoying, nobodyloves that.
And I said I know, but they buyit.
I know we were like no, I don'tneed that.
No, I don't need that.
No, I don't need.
Oh, but you know what, I doneed that one.
And you add it to your cart.
You did not intend to do it,but it's human nature.
(17:16):
We do so.
I said, okay, I got to buildout this whole funnel.
I don't even know what I wouldoffer.
And one of my mentors I was on aZoom call and I said what
should I do?
And she said, well, what's thenext problem that they will have
?
And I said, okay, after theyget all of these guides and they
go into Canva and they modifythem, now they don't know what
(17:37):
to do with them, so I shouldteach them how to make a landing
page.
She said, okay.
Then they build the landingpage.
What's the next problem thatthey have?
Well, they have to write awhole email automated sequence
that will connect to the landingpage so that it will
automatically deliver the thingthey just requested and it will
follow up with them.
That it, uh, and they don'tknow what to do.
So I should just offer to likehey, copy and paste all of my
(18:00):
emails, all of the stuff Ialready had, right, because I
was using these emails in my ownbusiness.
So it's just a matter ofputting them in a Google doc
where they can copy and pasteeverything.
And the landing page was just amatter of me filming a couple
of videos of go in here, putthis for the headline, put this
for the description, put this onthe button, put a picture of
(18:21):
the thing that they'redownloading.
Here's how you connect it withZapier.
I mean, it was.
It wasn't stuff that took meforever to put together but it
made logical sense of.
You bought the guides, okay, butwhat are you going to do with
them?
You need to put them on alanding page, okay, great, then
we got to do this.
And then my big finale is howare you going to go drive
traffic to this?
Are you going to just postabout it on Instagram?
(18:43):
Are you going to make Facebookposts?
Are you going to do paidtraffic?
I did YouTube.
I can tell you everything youneed to know about having a
YouTube channel.
That kills it bringing inclients.
You should join my groupcoaching program and here's a
one-time only discount.
And so by doing that, theydidn't just buy the $24 package,
(19:04):
they bought that and then a lotmore.
And so, by doing that, theydidn't just buy the $24 package,
they bought that and then a lotmore.
And so my average order valuewent up exponentially.
Like originally when I firstlaunched this whole thing, I
think, I had the main offer andan $11 order bump, and that was
all I had.
And then I added a $14 upsell,and so my average order value
(19:26):
was usually around $40, which isbetter than $24, but it was
still only $40.
And by adding different upsellsand rearranging them and saying
what if, instead of $11, it was$17, and just playing around
with the pricing and stuff likethat?
Now I think my average ordervalue is about $105.
(19:46):
So if I go to buy a $24 product,but the average order value is
over a hundred.
That is huge and so now likewhat that does to your ROAS,
right?
So I'm spending.
You know, I think I spend about$2,000 a day on ads, but you're
making a lot more than thatjust from the front end sales,
(20:08):
and then all of the upsells isjust icing on the cake.
Yeah, it's been like.
It hasn't always been great.
There have been many, many dayswhere the ROAS was in the
negative but then there havebeen days where, like I, was
running a retargeting ad and Ispent $12 on the ad that day and
(20:28):
made $1,100.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Let's pause.
It was like an 86X ROAS.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
That day it was insane 86X ROAS is phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
I need to make sure that I'm processing correctly
and maybe this will help thelistener too.
You had me at.
I'm spending $2,000 in ads aday.
That just lights me up as anads manager, but maybe the
listener is like I could never.
So let's hold on and rewind.
Okay, the context here was thatthe real estate market was in
(21:02):
decline and so your sales of thehigh ticket your high ticket
sales were in decline, andbecause of that class action
lawsuit and then the otherthings that we'll just kind of
state clearly, we had somedifferent policy changes from
the presidential administration.
We had interest rates that wereincreasing and some other
(21:23):
things that just made it reallyhard for real estate agents to
make it, and thus your clientsweren't buying the course as
much, and then you had to cutexpenses.
And then you came up with a lowticket offer funnel, a
self-liquidating offer funnel,and what I heard you say was
(21:44):
very telling.
But you basically tooksomething out of your main
program that was doing really,really, really well and that was
like this mini offer about howto create videos that had curb
appeal, right.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
It wasn't even.
It wasn't even an offer, it wasjust a bonus when they bought
the coaching program.
It was a bonus that they got.
I never sold it independently,it was just part of the program,
but I already had it.
So why not try that instead ofcreating something brand new
from scratch?
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
So when real estate agents were struggling and that
was hurting your business quitea bit, you came up with well,
you took the most popular bonusfrom your program.
So you look at the data,basically, and the feedback from
what people were saying, andyou made that the first low
ticket offer.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
And then--, joe, I wish I could say that I was that
strategic about it, it was theeasiest thing for me to do.
It was the thing that wasalready done.
That was the no brainer.
Let's just sell this and seewhat happens.
Let's just try it.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
What have I got?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
to lose.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
What have you got to lose, right?
The next part is you thoughtout, because some listeners
might be like well, if I were todo this, how do I decide what
could be the order bump afterthe core offer and the upsell
and the next upsell?
And I heard you say that youjust kind of spelled it out.
Well, you had a mentor for yourcourse or whatever your mentor
(23:21):
was.
But you kind of hash it outwith them or like okay, the next
logical step, the next thingthat would help an agent the
most would be a landing page,right?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
And then, how do you get traffic to the landing page?
Well, in that case, emails.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Well, how do you follow up with them after
they've gone through the opt-inprocess?
Now we have to deliver thething that they requested and
send them a whole bunch ofemails to nurture the
relationship.
And then the last thing was howare we going to drive traffic
to this entire thing?
I think you should use YouTube.
But at the beginning all I hadwas the order bump I think that
(23:57):
was it the main offer and theorder bump that was $11.
And then I added upsell numberone, and then I added upsell
number two, and then I addedupsell number three and I added
a downsell and it got moreelaborate over time.
And I would just test everythingand see what is the rate,
(24:18):
what's the conversion rate oneach one of these steps.
And if I were to put them in adifferent order, would that make
a difference?
What if I changed the price?
What if we did a split test,where here it's $27, but here
it's $47, and we'll just seewhich one works better?
And you know I would look atthese numbers.
(24:39):
I'm not, I'm a total right brainperson.
I don't love all of this math.
So I literally would go into mySamCart dashboard and export it
and then put it in chat GPT andsay please explain this to me,
Like, just tell me, tell me whatthese, what this means, because
it's too much data and my braindoes not work that way which
one is the best, which one hasthe best conversion rate, which
(24:59):
one is bringing us the mostmoney?
And then what do you think weshould do based on all of this
data and chat GPT would say eventhough your conversion rate is
much less at the higher pricepoint, it made you more money,
so don't freak out.
It might like it went from a50% conversion rate to a 20%
conversion rate, but you stillmade more money because the
(25:21):
dollar amount was higher, sodon't have a heart attack, it's
all fine.
Like Chad, GBT will talk me downfrom the ledge sometime and
it's great.
And then we just run lots oftests to see okay, it's working
really well now, but if Ichanged this headline, would it
be even better?
Or if I reorganize things onthe landing page, on the sales
(25:44):
page, would it be better?
So it's been a whole lot ofjust testing and it's actually
been a lot of fun.
I was very intimidated withFacebook ads at the beginning
because I thought it's been solong since I've done this and
everything is different and Idon't know what CBO means and
all of this kind of stuff, andthen when I got in there and
started playing with it, it waslike, oh, this really, it's not.
(26:06):
It's not that scary, it'snothing to be afraid of.
And if I would just take thetime to every day go in like so
that's my thing is, I get my cupof coffee in the morning and I
sit down and I look at what didwe spend yesterday?
What did we bring in?
What's the average cart value?
How is it all doing?
Are we in the?
Are we profitable today?
Yay, okay, good.
(26:27):
And then I started.
I think I started at 50 bucks aday and then I went to a
hundred dollars a day and I justgradually kept increasing my
daily ad spend.
As I figured this out, if I ranan ad that got nothing, I would
turn the ad off and we wouldtry something different.
But I didn't start with $2,000a day, like we worked up to that
(26:48):
.
I started running the ads atthe beginning of January I think
it was January 4th, so it'sbeen going for about six months
now.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
All right, I can just hear the questions bouncing
around the listeners' mind, thequestions bouncing around the
listeners, the listeners mind,and so I'm going to ask a few of
them.
I really want to know, thoughactually no, I should.
I should kind of piggyback onwhat you said about chat GPT.
I last year had the same thingwhere I was on a coaching call
(27:18):
with a client and we were goingthrough the math of the ads
running to their membership, andit can be complicated.
But what you want to know isI'm running out to this
membership, how long until I'mbreaking even as in for like per
(27:39):
purchase, how many months doesthat person need to stay into
the stay in the membership untilI break even?
And this client had amembership.
They had a email sequence thatwent out automatically right at
the end of the first month thatupgraded a member into an annual
membership, and so they had allthe numbers.
And after trying on my own, itjust hit me I can't crunch these
(28:03):
numbers, I'm just going to givechat all the data.
And it was able to say actually, this math works out.
You just have to wait untilmonth two before you break even
on ad spend.
So basically you just have tofloat the ad, spend until month
two.
There you go.
The reason I'm sharing this isone.
Dear listener, please useChatGPT to crunch numbers.
(28:24):
Sometimes you have to questionit and then it will come back
and say oh yeah, I forgot thatit's so weird, but I also If it
doesn't know the answer, it'lljust make something up.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
And I have to say that If you do not know the
answer, please do not inventsomething, Just say I need more
data from you.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, you got to call it out.
Don't take everything as gospel.
The first response.
But this is leading me to thenext question, though, Karen,
which is did you just have abunch of money sitting around?
Or how long did it take you tobreak even back when you started
(29:01):
, at whatever the initial dailyad spend was?
And just walk us through one ofthe hardest moments, if you
will too, where you almost threwin the towel.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Oh my gosh, that was last week.
I'll tell you exactly whathappened.
Okay, budget and I did thatdynamic creative option where I
think I had 10 differentcreatives and five different
(29:32):
headlines and five differentprimary text options and five
different descriptions and thead was profitable immediately.
I think I was doing.
I did one to a lookalikeaudience and one to an
interest-based audience and forsome reason the interest-based
audience did way better alwaysthan my lookalike audience.
So I just turned the lookalikeaudience off and put all of the
(29:54):
money into the interest-basedaudience and it always did
really well.
But the thing that I hated was Icould not tell which creative
was working.
Like you can't tell when you dothe dynamic and then you go in
and you're trying to look at allyour data, you have no idea
what combination of headline,creative, primary text was the
(30:16):
one that somebody clicked on.
And so when people would leavecomments, I was taking a
screenshot of the Facebook adand like trying to jot down okay
, it was this one and this andthis and this.
And it was super annoying to methat I couldn't track that
because I thought if I just knewthat three out of the 10
creatives were getting all ofthe clicks, I would shut the
(30:38):
other seven off.
But for some reason Meta is notsharing that right Unless.
I just don't know how to do it.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Let me insert something here for context too.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
With dynamic creative when it would.
You just give it a bunch of adcopy, a bunch of visuals and a
bunch of headlines and it wouldcombine them as it chose you
used.
Well, first of all, you'relistening to this episode right
now and you might be, if you'rerunning ads, going into your ad
manager to see it About half ofmy client accounts, as of today
(31:10):
that we're recording this June16th 2025, do not have dynamic
creative as an option anymore.
Meta is getting rid of thatoption, which is sad and also I
will share that in the accountsthat still have it.
We used to be able to look in,to peer into the black box of
dynamic creative and, with acouple of settings, we'll say be
(31:35):
able to see which of thevisuals were leading to sales,
and then you could clicksomething else and see which of
the text the main ad text wasconverting.
And then you could clickanother button and see
separately which headlines wereconverting, and then you could
piece that together and pick oh,these were, but that went away.
(31:57):
You can only see, as of rightnow, if the account even has it
you can only see the ad copythat's converting and the
headlines that are converting,but you can no longer look at
the visual.
So all that is just to say.
If you're having troubletesting and looking at that,
head down to the descriptionbelow.
(32:19):
There is a link and you can getsome coaching time with me
one-on-one, and I can look atyour ads for you.
Now back to what you weresaying, karen.
Please continue.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Okay.
So that was what I started withand it was always very, it was
always profitable.
It was always doing very well.
I just it annoyed me that Icouldn't figure out how to scale
it.
I couldn't really like I'dheard all these things about
don't just go in and double thebudget, you can only increase it
by so much per day and everythree days and all that kind of
(32:51):
stuff.
So I was trying to scale theseads but I never could get past
about $500 a day and have itstill have a positive ROAS.
Nothing that I tried.
I just couldn't ever reallymake it happen.
And that went on for months andmonths and months.
And then I decided well, I'm allabout video, right, my primary
(33:14):
platform is YouTube for cryingout loud.
Why are all of these justgraphics?
Why are all of my ads images?
None of them are.
They're not carousels, they'renot animated graphics.
There's there's no video.
Why shouldn't I try a video?
And I remembered that I hadrecorded a video nine months
(33:34):
earlier that I put on myFacebook business page and I did
absolutely nothing with it andit was funny.
It was to promote a lead magnet.
So go, download the first 10steps to a lead generating
YouTube channel and I made thesilly video and posted it, never
did anything with it and Ithought, well, what if I make
that an ad all on its own andjust see what happens?
(33:59):
And, oh my gosh, people lovedthat video, I guess because it
was funny.
It was funny, it was silly, Iwas dressing up in characters
and doing accents and all thestupid things, and they loved it
.
And I got so many people thatwere opting in for that lead
magnet.
And then I've got a whole backend email sequence that follows
up and made sales from peoplethat were receiving the email
(34:21):
sequence.
So there was no money makingimmediately because I was
optimizing for leads, not sales.
But in the end it did.
It did make money from sellingit through the email sequence.
So I thought, okay, people likethe funny ad.
What if I make a video that isa funny ad for this purpose, not
something that I just madeforever ago and forgot about?
(34:43):
Like I'm going to optimize forsales, not for leads.
That video is ridiculous, it is,it's killing it, it is doing so
, so, so well it when I go intochat GPT and I say here's all of
my stats and now I have, youknow UTM tracking links so I can
see which actual ad did theyclick on in order to make the
(35:04):
purchase.
And they're all coming fromthat silly video they're all
coming from not all, but morethan 50% are coming from that
one ad.
And then all of the other adsare splitting how much money
they're making.
So this one video is making somuch.
I'm like okay, I got to startmaking funnier videos, because
apparently people love this andnot only like.
(35:27):
They get the comments, they getthe likes, they share.
It gets so much engagement.
And then I guess meta justshows it more and more and more,
because that's where all theengagement is.
But then they actually click onthe link and they buy the
program too.
It's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
That's very cool, so you decided to show this video
the light of day.
It was doing great as a leadmagnet as a lead magnet,
basically, or connected to yourlead magnet, and then you remade
it or you just recorded anotherfunny one and that took off for
your SLO funnel ads.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, it was a different, like the.
The topic of the video wastotally different, but it was
the same idea where it was meantto be over the top silly.
It's kind of sarcastic andevery person except for one
person has left an extremelypositive comment.
One person was like buteverybody else thinks it's funny
(36:23):
.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
So there's always those folks.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
There's always that one.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
There always are for some accounts, like I have one
account where we have to go indaily because I don't know but
this niche, they're just superskeptical and there's so many
negative comments.
We just show up Like we wentthrough having the like my
client actually respond to thecomments.
But no matter how my clientwould respond, whether it was
like a snarky kind of like hey,I'm calling you out for like
(36:52):
complete BS, like being a troll,you know.
So trolling the trolls, if youwill or just giving a genuine
answer it's like the commentsjust would be neutral at best or
the replies would be neutral atbest or just attacking at worst
.
And so then we just went tohiding the comments and then we
went to like just launching newads every couple of days, so
there would be no comments.
(37:13):
So, listener, if that'shappening to you, respond to
your comments, because peoplelove to see that the creator is
actually responding and thenmeta sees your responses as
engagement.
But if there's something youjust don't want to respond, hide
it or relaunch your ad and youcan delete the comments.
If you launch your ad and make achange to it, it deletes all
(37:34):
that social proof.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
Can I ask your opinion on this?
Sure, so in one of the videosthat I made I said click learn
more to get all the details.
There's a button and the callto action on the button is learn
more.
Everybody types learn more inthe comments and I spend half of
my day going.
I guess I wasn't very clear.
(37:58):
I this is not a many chat thing.
You don't type learn more andit's going to automatically DM.
You have to click the buttonthat says learn more, like
should I just turn that ad offor should I just keep responding
because now it's moreengagement?
Speaker 1 (38:12):
What's the profitability?
What's the ROAS return on adspend on that ad?
Speaker 2 (38:16):
Let me think it's probably not so great on that
particular one, because that'snot the funny ad.
So maybe it's not even worthdoing.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yeah, if the ROAS is negative, like less than one,
then sure turn it off, becauseit's sucking your time.
If it's higher, though, andit's actually generating you
money, then keep it on.
So what's going on, Karen, ismini.
Chat is everywhere, and we havebeen we all have been trained
(38:47):
to comment and then getsomething DM'd.
So, what this could mean ismaybe you want to test it and
actually hook up mini chat to anad and see how that works.
The good news is that you canrun ads pretty cheap to like.
It's the equivalent of boostinga post but not boosting it
(39:08):
through the cell phone.
It's doing the equivalent ofboosting it post but not
boosting it through the cellphone.
It's doing the equivalent ofboosting it in Ad Manager.
Or just be ultra clear that youknow they shouldn't have, they
shouldn't click learn more, orthey should click learn more
instead of typing it.
But that's what's going on.
But yeah, just the decisiondepends on what the ROAS is.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
All right, I'll go look at it.
I ran all of those numbersabout a week ago and I haven't
looked at it since then for thatspecific one.
But it was like lesson learned.
If I'm going to say click learnmore, like click the learn more
button, right, I wish I couldsay it only happened once or
twice and so it was a themproblem.
(39:44):
No, it's happened like 20 times.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
All right, I don't think we ever went over.
What are your?
What are the offers inside ofyour self liquidating offer
funnel priced at.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Cause you have four now.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
That's the final magic four, right Okay.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
So the front end offers $24.
The upsell is $11.
Sorry, the order bump, Yep, theorder bump is $11.
And that one is, it's like alittle, it's not well.
Basically copy and pasteprompts for chat GPT.
So I've made all of these 24guides.
(40:23):
If you want to make somethingthat is custom to your market
and your target audience, butyou don't really know what it
would be, Use these copy andpaste prompts and go into chat
GPT and then you can makesomething that nobody else will
have.
It's specifically custom foryou.
Then the landing page blueprintis it was originally $14, and
(40:44):
then I changed it to $97.
And so the conversion rate wentdown quite a bit, but it makes
so much more money that itdoesn't matter.
So it's at $97 right now, andthen the next one with the copy
and paste emails is 97.
And then my group coachingprogram is roughly $1,000.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Okay, that's with the one-time discount.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Cool.
So you got 24 as the main offer.
$11 is the order bump, and thenyou have two subsequent upsells
at $97.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Each, and then you have a final upsell, which is a
one-time.
How much discount off of yourprogram?
Speaker 2 (41:28):
It's 50 discount, so it's 11.
11 is the the total price andif they say no to that, it has a
downsell and the downsell is 67dollars what was the downsell?
67 dollars or what it's alittle mini course on how to
create a youtube channel in aweekend.
(41:49):
Okay, so it's not thefull-blown YouTube program, but
it's at least create a YouTubechannel that could bring you
business if you started makingvideos.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
That is impressive.
To date that is the longest SLOfunnel of series of offers that
I have seen.
That's six if I was counting.
It is.
You know what I saw recentlyand I have no idea how well this
works because I saw it on acourse that I purchased.
But this lady, she had theabout, so it would be about as
(42:24):
far into the funnel as your main50% discount is, but literally
the downsell off of that was thesame exact program just at an
even bigger discount.
And all she says is I saw thatyou didn't get this on the
previous page but I basically Ibelieve you need to have this
(42:48):
and it will make the differencein your business, so I'm going
to discount it again so that youget it.
Like she's very direct and Iwas like I had never seen a
downsell.
That was just a steeperdiscount on the previous one,
but I bought it at the cheaperpoint.
And again, I'm not saying thisis a great strategy.
I just saw it and I ended upbuying it.
(43:12):
But maybe that's something thatyou end up testing because
clearly you like to look at thedata and see what's working.
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Yeah, In fact I just went into my dashboard and I was
looking at it now going okay,so like, how many views, how
many conversions, how manypeople have declined, how many
people have abandoned?
So, out of 352 total people inthe last seven days that looked
at it, 138 abandoned italtogether.
(43:42):
But that means that the other200 and whatever it is, 50
people went through the wholething and either said yes, no,
yes, no.
But the customer, the averagecustomer value, it says is that
right?
That can't be right.
It's saying like $1,300.
Is that correct?
Speaker 1 (44:04):
I'm not sure if that's correct.
I don't think that's correct.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
What is my?
So my average order value is$80 for this week from a $24
product.
So, yes, it may like some ofthe people might be going
through the upsell funnel andthey might be annoyed and they
just close out the whole thingand they leave it and that's
fine.
But there are a lot of peoplethat they come through my email
of they just bought the guides.
(44:27):
Oh, they just bought the orderbomb.
Oh, they just bought the guides.
Oh, they just bought the orderbump.
Oh, they just bought the upsell.
And so when I see those peoplethat are buying three, four or
five things in rapid succession,it's like, okay, there are a
lot of people that just enjoybuying the stuff and they need
the help and even if they addall of it together, the grand
total is like 150.
They they can afford that ifthey are in real estate and they
(44:50):
need the help and they need tofigure out a way to grow their
database and build a pipeline.
That's not an unreasonableamount of money to spend on
themselves and they're doing itevery day, which is really
exciting.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
And selling is serving, and it's what I'm
hearing and what I'm seeing onyour face is that you
confidently believe that, likethe more things that people get
in that funnel, the better offthey are or the higher the
chances of success that they'llhave in their real estate
business.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
I really do Nice, because I get it.
People will buy the 24 guidesand then they go back to the
Facebook ad and they leave acomment and they're like so what
should I do with them?
Now I'm like, well, you need toput them on your website.
You need to have an opt-in pageso that they can give you their
contact information, because ifyou just I don't know you just
(45:42):
one guy, oh, bless his heart heput it in Google drive and then
he copied the public share linkand he went to his YouTube
channel and he put that in alink below the video.
So I'm watching your video andit's like this is great.
I click on it goes right to theGoogle Drive where I can
download that document.
He's not getting my contactinformation because he gave it
away for free, and so I made ajoke video about that one too,
(46:06):
and I was like I remember when Iwas in high school and my mom
sat me down and had the talk whybuy the cow when you can get
the milk for free?
Speaker 1 (46:13):
That's what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
You're giving them the milk for free.
You've got to put it behind anopt-in page.
You can't follow up withsomeone if you don't know their
name and you don't have theiremail.
This is how you build arelationship and you nurture
these people over time untilthey're finally ready to buy or
sell a house.
So yeah, they need this stuff.
I'm just trying to convincethem that they do.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
Final question Looking back over your journey
of making the pivot to lowticket offers in light of your
declining sales because of thereal estate market, of your high
ticket offer, and then goingthrough the testing of the low
ticket offer and actuallytesting, like you said,
different orders or likedifferent orders of offers in
(47:00):
that low ticket offer funnel andeven different price points,
what is one final word ofencouragement that you would
leave the listener, who needsmore money in their business,
possibly wants the benefit ofnot being tied down to a launch
and wants like steady revenuecoming in instead of like launch
(47:22):
revenue and then nothing andthen launch revenue.
But maybe they've tried to do alow ticket offer funnel and
it's been tough going.
Like what's that final word ofencouragement you'd leave for
them?
Speaker 2 (47:34):
It's taken a lot of testing to get to the point
where it's working this well andit'd be so easy to get
discouraged, like last week Iturned on a brand new ad and it
was working so well.
It had like a 14 X row ads thatI just said I'm just going to
like quadruple the budget rightnow because why not?
(47:55):
And then completely went intothe negative for the next three
days and I was having heartfailure of like, oh my gosh,
like I'm just flushing thismoney down the toilet.
So it really does.
It takes a lot of testing.
You're going to launch thisthing and maybe hardly anybody
buys it and then you have todecide okay, is anyone even
(48:16):
clicking?
If they're not clicking, thenit's my ad.
I got to go fix my ad.
If they click, they go to thelanding page, but they don't buy
.
It's the landing page.
Is it the headline?
Is it the image?
Like, just focus on one thingat a time.
Are you getting the click?
If not, work on the ad.
If you're getting the click,but then they don't convert,
(48:36):
work on the landing page.
And then, once you get thatworking, just say, okay, let's,
let's try it at two differentprice points and we'll run a
split test and say do morepeople buy it at $11 or more
people buy it at $17?
Let's run it for a week and seewhat happens.
And then you go, you export allyour data and go to chat GPT
and say please put this inEnglish for me.
(48:57):
And it says pick this one.
Okay, got it.
And you don't have to have theentire upsell funnel at the
beginning, literally just startwith the main offer and one
order bump and then, a week ortwo later, add an up bump and
then, a week or two later, addan upsell and then a week or two
later, add another upsell.
So I mean, I spent a lot oftime working on this over the
(49:20):
course of a couple of months tobuild it all out.
But then, once it startedworking and I could see that it
was profitable, and then peoplewill go leave reviews, they go
back to the Facebook ad andthey're like I bought this two
months ago.
These are amazing.
And they leave thisspontaneously wonderful
testimonial.
It's like oh my gosh, this isjust fantastic.
So now I'm at the point, nowthat I know the funny ads are
(49:42):
really working for me I'mthinking how, how, how often can
I make more ads.
How, like the other day, Igrabbed my husband and I said
what are you doing?
He said nothing.
I'm like, good, you're mycameraman.
Come on, we're filming somevideos.
And all I did was record fivenew opening hooks.
And then I just used the samevideo that I had before and all
(50:02):
I did was replace the opening,and so now it's like I have five
brand new videos, but they'renot.
It was only the first fiveseconds were different, and then
the rest of the video wasexactly the same.
So I've got all those runningright now so that I can test
them and see which is the hookthat grabs people's attention
the most.
And then just testing, testingtesting and then going to chat,
(50:24):
gpt and saying like this is thead that's working so well.
Give me some ideas for otherfunny ads.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Testing, testing, testing, testing.
The interesting thing is, I saya quote which is a Thomas
Edison quote, that we miss outon opportunity because it's
dressed up in overalls and lookslike work and it sounds like
you've put in the work.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know that I even consider it
work.
It's kind of fun, right.
You get to be creative and youget to go in and look at, all
right, what is working and howcan I make this just a tiny bit
better?
What if I could increase theconversion rate just a little
tiny bit?
And so I do spend a lot of timelooking at the stuff and
(51:09):
tweaking it and playing with it,but in the end it's been
profitable.
But since I started runningthese ads at the beginning of
January, it's been profitable,and so I almost feel like I'm
getting paid to grow my emaillist.
If I spend a dollar, but I make$1.50, and I do that every day
(51:30):
for months on end I am gettingthese names into my database,
where then when I say I'm havinga flash sale, we're going to
run this Christmas, in July sale, buy something else, and here's
the bonus that you get with itor whatever, and all these
people end up buying it becauseI'm getting thousands and
thousands of names into mydatabase that were not there
(51:52):
before.
It's great, it's a win-win-winfor everybody.
That's the holy grail.
Speaker 1 (52:01):
I mean the best kind of list growth is growing your
list with buyers.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Right, because I've always offered these lead
magnets and they'll go in andthey'll read all of my emails
and they'll reply to the emails.
But they don't always buy andthat's fine, except if you end
up with what I had was adatabase where they charge you
per name that you have in yourdatabase and they say, oh, your
annual bill is coming due andit's $6,000.
(52:28):
They say, oh, your annual billis coming due and it's $6,000.
And you realize that the vastmajority of those people don't
even open half of your emailsanymore because they've been on
your list for so long they juststop opening them.
But if we get buyers into yourdatabase now, like all of the
people that bought in the lastweek, have started on a new
(52:49):
automated campaign and, like,email number one has a 56% open
rate.
Email number two, I think, is52%.
Email number four was like 54%.
That's great, like when you'regetting over 50% open rates from
people that just gave you moneyand now you're going to say, by
the way, I have this otherstuff you should buy too.
(53:10):
And of course we're doing itbecause I genuinely know that it
will help their business and soI don't feel gross about trying
to sell them anything.
It's like.
This was how I built mybusiness.
I can tell you exactly what Idid and why it will work for you
too.
Just let me help you will workfor you too.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Just let me help you.
That is very soundbiteable.
I'm going to chop it up and putit in the intro.
I think I don't think I knowthat when you talked about
testing step-by-step and this isa self-promo ad for the
listener, but that's why I havethe course called the Ad Testing
Che cheat code.
That takes you through theexact same four steps that I use
when I first start a clientaccount, so that you can
(53:56):
systematically make sure thatyou're getting your leads or
sales for the best cost possible, while also reaching a highly
qualified person, and that'simportant.
I heard from you, karen, thatyou you didn't settle for just
one ad or two ads, and youdidn't even settle for only
(54:16):
testing the ads, but you wentand tested the landing page too,
and then prices, so to speak,by split testing, and Bravo.
Well, you deserve all of thesales and all of the peace of
mind and maybe even the dopaminehits that you get daily from
looking at the notificationsthat go up on your lock screen.
Speaker 2 (54:38):
I love them.
I used to have all of the saleswould come into my inbox and
just go straight to a folder sothat it wasn't filling up my
inbox.
And now it's like bring into myinbox, baby, I want to see all
of those sales.
Because when I go to my inboxand it's like bring into my
inbox, baby, I want to see allof those sales.
Because when I go to my inboxand it's like SamCart, samcart,
all the way down it's like yes,this is working and it just
(55:00):
makes me that much moremotivated.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Well, shoot, we're going to end with that.
Thank you very much for sharingall this with the listener, and
if they happen to be a realestate agent then, or just want
to get in touch with you, whereis the best place for them to do
that?
Speaker 2 (55:15):
Well, my website is videobossagentcom and my YouTube
channel is where I am mostactive, so that is youtubecom.
Forward slash, karen Carr.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Thank you for being here and sharing this, karen,
and it was really lovelyconnecting with you again.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
It was great to see you, Kwejo.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
All right, dear listener, until the next time
that you hear or see me, see meor hear from me, take care, be
blessed, and I'll see you in thenext one.
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.