February 19, 2025 • 39 mins
We're back with Dielle Charon, a certified life coach and sales expert who transitioned from a 9-5 job to coaching and empowering women of color to achieve seven-figure incomes.
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Dielle introduces her Power 75 Framework, which goes beyond the usual sales methods to create more genuine client interactions. Her framework focuses on building real connections and trust, transforming how sales are done.
She also talks about the challenges and lessons learned from growing her agency, like hiring the right people and running test projects that mimic real-life pressures, ensuring her team consistently delivers top-notch quality.
Watch the previous episode on YouTube 'Making Seven figures teaching sales to women of color featuring Dielle Charon'
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- Sign up to her FREE Webinar Training here!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the second of two episodes featuring
DL Charan.
And at the end of the lastepisode and I'm going to
introduce her in a moment Right,Jamie, yes, Right At the end of
the last episode, she said thatlearning sales conversations
changed her life.
If you have webinars in yourbusiness or discovery calls in
your business and you want togreatly increase your income,
(00:23):
I'm talking like going from asocial worker at a university
who has to commute 1.5 hourseach way, so three hours of
commute every day, making$29,000 a year.
Did you say?
That's what you started with DL?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
$39,000.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
$39,000, okay a little higher to now having had
three years in a row of grossingwell over a million dollars in
your business.
If that sounds like the kind ofgrowth you would like to have,
well then, meet DL Charan.
She's a certified life coach, aseven figure sales expert for
women of color coaches, andshe's the host of the Women of
(01:01):
Color Sales Show podcast withover 150,000 downloads, and she
runs two sales programs, theFive Figure Freedom and Six
Figure Liberation, which haveserved over 300 women of color.
We just wrapped up, moments ago, a phenomenal episode where we
got to know DL a bit.
We got to know about where shecame from, how in the world she
(01:24):
went from making $39,000 a yearas a social worker to where she
is now, and some of the yeah, Iguess we'll just call them life
journeys.
In this episode, though, we'regoing to talk about sales and DL
.
You have something called thePower 75 Framework.
You said you also are down toaudit our sales process a little
(01:47):
bit, so it seems like in thisepisode, we're going to have to
get a little transparent.
I want to share, though Iresonated with that sentence.
First of all, welcome to theshow.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Thank you, I'm so excited to be here again, right.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I'm excited to also interview you again and to chat
with you again, though it feelslike you're about to interview
us.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Right.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I'm a little nervous.
It'll be light.
It'll be light, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I had to remind myself to change my body
language and lean towards themicrophone so people can hear me
rather than loud, all right.
So I had a question and beforewe get into everything else,
what is the sales unlock?
If you will that more peopleshould be learning.
I know it has the AI wordunlock, but I wrote that
question myself what's the onething that?
You feel like really doeschange the game, though, for
(02:40):
people who have discovery callsor sales calls or webinars.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, I would say first, do them.
I think, like there's so manypeople that don't have any live
call component as a part oftheir business.
They want it to be fullyevergreen or fully referral
based, or I'll see them, youknow, write blogs and emails and
instagram captions untilthey're blue in the face, all to
avoid talking to people in alive call.
(03:07):
So I would say, if you don'thave those things, put them in
your business.
Your business will literallydouble.
If you just did that, like ifyou just did that, your sales
would go through the roof.
So, number one, do them.
And then number two, I wouldsay, keep it simple.
One of the things I talk aboutwhen it comes to sales calls is
we are told one of two things tokind of just wing it and be
(03:31):
personal and don't try to besalesy.
And then the other part is tohave like a 14 step script to
make you know you have to saythis and then it's like a tree
and if they said this, then youhave to feed into that question
and don't leave the call unlessthey pay.
And it's those two extremes,right, like I call it, like the
used car salesman being likewait, wait, wait, I'll slash
another $500 off.
(03:52):
Right Is that energy?
And there's another way betweenboth right, where you don't
have to wing it.
I've been on so many sales callswhere I want to buy something
and I could just tell that andit's from good intentions, like
I could just tell that theperson doesn't want to be salesy
, so they don't have any process.
But then it's like am I leadingthe call?
(04:12):
Are you leading the call?
I have questions I have like,and then we're kind of in this
like power play versus like thathardcore script that I was
talking about.
You can ditch both methods andthere is a different way.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Nice, I love it, I like it.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Love it.
I'm chuckling to myself becauseback in my previous business,
where I taught folks who areworking in China how to learn
Mandarin Chinese, I had at thevery end, you know, after I gave
them an option and both optionswere yes I would always, almost
all the time, say that like howabout I just stay on?
(04:48):
Like we stay on this Zoom call,like while you authorize the
payment, because but I had anexcuse, which was because I was
living in China using whateverpayment processor here in the
States.
I was like sometimes there'sjust hiccups and it doesn't work
out, so like I'll just stayhere while you go ahead and
process the pavement and ifthere's any hiccup, like I can
(05:09):
help get you around it and likethat worked most of the time.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, actually people were like, okay, cool.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
But I think it's just that, like I could feel your
authenticity and like it was areal thing, like I could feel
that as you were delivering it,and it also made sense like
logical sense, versus like a lotof people don't have that
reason and don't have that likegoal in mind, and you can also
feel the energy of that.
So I also say like I use theexample all the time like when I
(05:39):
was planning my wedding vendorswould say like hey, it's just
easier if I take your card overthe phone, or you'll have to do
a 3% charge fee if I send you alink, blah, blah, blah.
And so, yeah, there could beseveral logistical reasons that
make sense, but if it's more ofa pressure reason, I think
people could feel the difference.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
People can feel the difference.
Prior preparation prevents poorperformance is a quote that I
stole from a guy named SeanCannell, and who knows where he
got it from.
What do you believe makes thedifference in a sales call?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Well, I can just kind of share my method here, if
that's okay.
Sure, well, that's actually amessaging tool.
My sales call framework's alittle different yeah.
So messaging and I think this isa good, like even point of
conversation A lot of peopleconfuse, like marketing versus
messaging, versus sales, sales,all of those different things
and I think messaging andmarketing are more of the
(06:31):
front-facing client things.
I'm sure you all, as adspecialists, do a lot of things
with messaging, and then what Ikind of count as sales is where
you're having a conversationwith someone, and it could be
conversation through email orsomething else, but it's
typically a live conversation,either on a webinar or on a
sales call.
So my Power 75 framework isgreat for messaging, which I'll,
of course, talk about.
(06:52):
But my sales call process isvery simple and it's also pretty
intuitive.
It's called triage, treatmentplan, tell the offer and so
triage, just like how you wereto go to urgent care or the
doctor and you want to get clearon the problem first.
I can't tell you how many timespeople have been taught to start
the sales call off with so thisis my offer and this is what
(07:13):
I'm going to offer you, or doyou want to buy it Like?
No, you got to.
You have to triage the clientfirst and then you have
treatment plan, and this is whata lot of people miss is you
don't want to go from problem tosolution.
You want to offer a treatmentplan.
So here are the three thingsthat we're going to do together.
Here are the three solutionsthat we're going to solve, and
you want each one to be customto your client and then you can
(07:37):
get into telling about the offerafter they agree that the
treatment plan is what they wantand you don't have to make any
edits to it.
So, triage treatment plan, tellthe offer.
It's very social worky, becausethat's my background.
That was the process that I usedwhen I had to assess people and
I had to get a stranger's trustabout very difficult and
vulnerable problems prettyimmediately, and so that was the
(07:59):
framework that I use in orderto get someone's trust and that
is the process that I've taughtmy clients, and they get a
hundred percent sales callconversions.
That's kind of like the vibeand freedom, as you should be
aiming for a hundred percentsales call conversions If if a
client.
Yeah, if a client said no,that's thousands of dollars
walking out the window, likesomething happened.
Especially if you're working onpart-time hours, every call
(08:22):
counts, and so a hundred percentconversions is the goal.
Is the goal not?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
oh, it burns me up when people like oh, 30 is great
30 no, no, no, that's bad,that's terrible right, that's
terrible.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Or even 70 I'm like seven that other 30 could have
kicked you over to 500k, couldhave kicked you over to whatever
income goal.
So yeah, I'm very passionateabout a hundred percent
conversions.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Well then, can we like camp out here?
Because as I interview folks onthis podcast, I hear and I
learn a lot, but having been inthe online course creation space
like, I guess the amount I'mlearning it's shrinking somewhat
, If that makes sense, Cause weinterview a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I guess the amount of new things.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Now I always tell people that 60% like it's pretty
solid, and you just kind ofchanged everything that's going
on in my brain because you'relike, no, we should not be
settling for 60%.
Did she just say 70%?
70% is not even that great sowhat's the difference between a
70% and 100% closing rate?
And if you say a percentage,I'm going to hit.
(09:24):
Stop record.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
That's such a good question, like what is the
difference?
I see all sorts of things.
Oh my God, I've seen all sortsof things.
I would say if I were to groupit into themes.
This is one thing that peopleget wrong a lot is they say
their framework that's like ontheir sales page, or whatever
they say their framework on thesales on their sales page, or
whatever they say theirframework on the sales call,
that will immediately drop yourconversion.
(09:48):
Nobody wants to feel likethey're in this pre prescribed
box and like to fit themselvesinto something.
So I always say do not talkabout your framework.
Give a custom plan that yourprogram and your course or
whatever can provide.
Don't get me wrong.
I'm not saying like doone-on-one coaching and do
(10:08):
private.
You know custom builds thewhole time.
Your offer can provide it, butyou want the sales call to feel
so custom and so specific.
And it's it's very simple logicto me.
Like if you are a money coachand you're over here talking
about your program and yourframework and part of that
(10:30):
program and framework isinvesting, but the client is
struggling with debt payoff,they're like well, I don't wanna
pay for something, that's notmy problem.
So that's the reason why I saydon't put your framework in it,
because the client only has oneproblem.
But you're selling them on five.
You think you're doing a valueout, but they're like wait, I
don't want any of that, thatother stuff.
(10:52):
I'll tell you a little bit of afail that I had and you can
apply this on webinars too.
I tell you a fail that I had.
So I had the bright idea toinclude a coaching certification
inside of my program, because alot of people that we would get
emails and be like what if Inever coach anybody before, can
I still join your program?
And so I said what if wecreated a certification or a
training program for people?
(11:13):
So I was on the webinar, I waspitching my program and I was
mainly talking about how it's asales program.
Then I said and we just rolledout this certification no cost
to you, you also get thecertification.
We got so many emails beinglike can we buy it without the
certification?
I don't want that.
That's not my problem.
I don't want that in there.
And so we think that it's avalue app, but people only want
(11:36):
to pay for what they need andnothing else.
Yeah, it's a little interesting, but I would say, like, that's
probably one of the main thingswhere you're converting but
you're not converting all theway.
If you took out frameworks,you'll probably get there.
I would say too, it's calledit's one of the things I call
believability where the personmay not believe what you're
(11:59):
saying.
So if you're saying you'regoing to help them lose a
hundred pounds or you're sayingyou're going to help them, you
know, double their income, theymay not believe you.
So one of the things I, one ofthe strategies that I offer
people, is you have to sellsupport and you have to sell.
I call it togetherness, thatyou're going to do things
together so that the clientbelieves you.
So example say you're like, okay, I'm going to help you get a
(12:21):
new job, you'll have a new jobin 90 days.
And someone's like, oh, I don'tknow if I'm going to believe you
or I don't know if I believeyou.
You would say, well, we'regoing to do your resume together
.
You and I are literally goingto share screen and we're going
to go line by line and do yourresume together.
I'll also do mock calls withyou for your interview so that
you can get really tailored onwhat exactly you're going to say
.
So then, once you actually getthe interview your first
(12:43):
interview you actually are goingto close and that they're going
to go with you as the candidate, and then the client can see
the bridge, because they'reseeing all the levels of how
you're going to be doingsomething together, versus it's
not just this pipe dream thatthe client's going to have to
figure out all on their own.
So there's several like hacksand little things like that, but
I would say frameworks andbelievability and togetherness
(13:05):
is what I call it are probablythe top two.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Nice Because people want to feel, yeah, supported,
and they need to see how it'sgoing to work.
Right, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
We never do the listener enough service by
waiting until the end to saywhere can they hear more from
you.
So, like right now, where canthe listener go to learn more
from you?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Like the next step, because this is going to be a
really good episode but likethings happen and not everybody
finishes the episode, oh sureyou could tune into my show.
It's called the woman of colorsales podcast.
I would say that's the bestplace.
And then DL Charon, my name, onall platforms, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Okay, nice.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Lovely.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Thank you for sharing that by the way, sure.
Is it time, so ask yourquestion.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Well, I have one more question before we get to sort
of our audit, if you will.
But, was all of this your kindof your sales training or how
you got to be so good at it?
Was it just trial and error andyou started noticing like these
things are working?
Or was it you know throughbooks that you read, or you know
(14:17):
different tactics that youtried, or kind of how did you
develop this, this knack?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
It sounds very egotistical, but literally just
my own creativity.
I I struggled for about a yearon sales calls but then once I
got it, like I would say, sinceI've been doing sales calls, so
that's 2020, so we're up fiveyears and I would say maybe five
people have sent no to me totaland I've done like maybe over
(14:47):
300 sales calls.
Wow yeah and so, and I haven'tread any sales books.
I haven't done any because Ireally try to keep my own IP,
like mine, and so I don't.
I haven't bought any like salescall courses.
It's really was just intuition.
I love talking with people as,again, as a social worker also
(15:08):
as a worker too, I interviewedprobably over a thousand people
in the prison system, so I gotreally good with talking with
people and asking the rightquestion, like I think it's a
lot of my background as a socialworker and yeah, how I thought
everybody knew this.
And then I would see, like my, Iwould force my clients to send
their calls in, like theirrecordings Cause I'm like why
aren't y'all closing?
This is so simple.
(15:29):
And then I was like, oh, y'allare not doing anything that I'm
doing.
And then that's when I startedteaching it.
But I originally I wasn'tteaching sales calls until, like
, my clients were like, yeah, Inever closed.
I was like what's wrong withyou?
Like what?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
are you doing?
This is?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
so easy, just talk, and it's like no, you don't just
talk, there's a whole process.
So yeah, I just kind of a knackfor it.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Okay, cool.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Great.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Let's make sure that the listener picked up what you
just said, because I heard yousay the word intuition and I'm
saying this like in a heartfeltway from the bottom of my heart,
that I don't want you listeningto this episode as DL and Jamie
and I talk and I think thatlike it's okay just to go by
intuition in a sales call orjust to go like and wing it Like
(16:14):
we are not wing it, people, asfar as sales calls go.
And I've heard you say the wordprocess a number of times and
I'll share quickly that thefirst time I learned sales was a
process.
It changed my life.
I was working at those littleyellow kiosks way back in the
day from Rosetta Stone andbecause I'm a language guy, love
(16:35):
speaking foreign languages, andI remember accepting the job
because I liked languages, eventhough it did have a commission
structure for sales, it wasquite a generous one at the time
.
I did horribly as far asselling went.
You know, for the first periodof time I definitely made it
with like the hourly, like basepay that they provided.
And then I remember lookinginto the system because we could
(16:56):
see like the territories andall the kiosks in the
territories and every weekthey'd have to report their
numbers.
So I could see that like therewas one kiosk that was crushing
it in sales, like tripling,quadrupling what I was selling,
which meant they're making a lotof money off of like a
part-time deal.
And so I remember taking theday off and driving like 40
(17:17):
minutes to their kiosk, likewalking up, introducing myself
and being like, how are youposting these numbers?
And it was this guy named JoeKunkel, like this at the time he
already was old I was younger,but he was.
He had to have been like midfifties, maybe lower sixties at
the time.
And like he looked at me andjust said, like Kwejo, sells is
(17:39):
a, a process and once you learnthe process, you will sell just
fine.
And like he told me some otherthings and he recommended a book
to me and, to make the storysuper short, like I took his
advice, I read the book, Istudied the book that night and
was able to see, like I thinkwithin within the first week,
like 30% increase in my sales,because I just was showing up
(18:01):
prepared because I wanted money.
It wasn't even a noble enough tosay I really wanted more people
to learn foreign languages Likenow I have something that, like
, I believe in, which is that,like you and I were put here on
earth for a reason, like withgifts and skills and passions,
that, like, we can help otherpeople to affect transformation
in their lives, and so we needto be good with Facebook ads and
(18:23):
Instagram ads so, like, morepeople can change, right.
But then I was just like I justneed money, so all that is to
say I'm not sure what that is tosay.
I identified that when you saidlearning, sales and the process
, uh, changed your life, becauseit did for mine too.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Back then, yeah, and to that point like we can really
be hard on ourselves and itcould feel incredibly personal
getting a no or awkward oh, I'llget back to you late.
Like it you can.
It's sales is very personal,you can't hide, right, Like it's
you.
And so, yeah, I think whenpeople learn like hey, you just
were missing an ingredient tothe recipe, it had nothing to do
(18:59):
with you, it could be veryhealing.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, nice.
So how do?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
we, how do we jump into this?
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Oh well, let me, let me ask you you shared your
income previously, and so do youwant to let the listeners know,
or is it a secret?
Oh well, so for context, dearlistener, we were congratulating
DL because I had seen on herInstagram that, like, this was
her third year, right?
In grossing over a million.
And I was like that soundsamazing.
I've been capped out at$250,000, just slightly under
there, $230,000, $225,000.
(19:33):
And she said, oh well, we couldlike do an audit, look at your
process.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
And I was like okay, sure, and so I would love to do
that.
So what is y'all's currentprocess right now, like from
newly to buyer, how, what's yourfunnel?
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Good question.
I should say that most of myclients actually come from word
of mouth and I think since whendid we really start getting
serious about doing outreach?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Probably in the fall.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Was that in the fall?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Well, summer, no it was earlier because I started
doing more outreach, probablyMay, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, so for the clients we're actually that's
still a big question mark.
We're still trying to figureout how to set up a funnel that
brings in new clients who we didnot previously know.
Now, currently the outreachthat we do or the lead magnet
that we have the people that getthose lead magnets usually are
(20:29):
a better fit to work with us onthe course basis or inside of a
course or maybe one-on-onecoaching.
But some of the one-on-onecoaching clients I've had have
become ads management clients.
So we could say if there was aloose funnel it would be lead
magnet to course, to one-on-onecoaching, and that has worked
(20:52):
sometimes Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
What's your income split between all your offers?
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Oh, it's heavy on the ads management side, like 90, I
don't know the percentage likemost of it like 90, above 95,
heavy on the ads management side, like like 90, I don't know the
percentage like most of it,like 90 above 95% comes from ads
management.
Okay, well, sorry, the offersare a suite of courses.
That's not true.
The offers are a suite ofcourses and one-on-one coaching
and ads management, and actuallyI should just track it better.
(21:16):
But one-on-one coachingactually makes up a little bit.
Let's call it 90% adsmanagement for a good round
number and like 8% coaching, andthe courses are very small.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Okay, for the sake of this conversation, let's just
say that you have greatretention for your retainer, for
your ads retainer.
Let's just assume I'm assumingthat's the case, and so let's
assume that, perfect, great.
You never know what serviceproviders.
And so I'm like let's justassume you have great retention
and if not, let's fix that.
But yeah, let's assume you havegreat retention, so that's
(21:49):
great.
So my next question is whereare you creating ads education?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
On what platform?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Primarily Instagram.
The podcast does get repurposedto YouTube.
Unique content, though that'snot just more concisely edited
podcast is on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
What's your promise for your retainer?
Well then, this would be a greattime to introduce Power 75.
So Power 75 is my messagingtool on how you communicate your
offer.
So, similar to thisconversation.
We typically say, oh, I dobusiness coaching or I have this
ads management offer, but whatdoes the offer do?
That's what Power 75 willcommunicate, and there's five
(22:29):
yeah, and so there's five partsof it.
It's what's who's the person?
So that's the P who's theperson.
The outcome, what's the generaloutcome of this offer.
And then you want to thinkabout it.
It's going to be general, short, sweet, like what you would put
in an Instagram bio.
You have the W, which is theskill, and so yours is very
clear.
A lot of people's aren't.
(22:49):
It's not clear where you haveto think about what skill are
you teaching people, becausepeople love to buy skills.
You then have ease, which areexceptional angles, and this is
going to be my next question,like what makes your ad strategy
different from other people'sad strategy, or what are your ad
philosophies?
That might be a littlecontroversial.
And then your r is a result,and so what can somebody expect?
(23:13):
If they pay you money, what arethey going to get back?
What result will they get back?
And so that's the Power 75framework.
So when I ask like what's yourresult or what's your promise,
or how is your offer different,power 75 can kind of give you
some language on how toarticulate that.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Got you.
Well, my offer is differentbecause I focus heavily on
testing ads and, like I believethat lots of money is left on
the table when we're not testingenough different messaging
versions, if you will, of adcopy and graphics and so I'm a
tester, I do all the boringtesting so that we can find the
(23:50):
one ad that outperforms the 19or the one ad that outperforms
the 49.
And the closest thing I wouldhave to a promise is that, like
it's like working with me, youfind the highest quality lead at
the lowest cost possible.
It's not just a cost per leadgame, it's about finding quality
leads, and that has to do withwell research, messaging and
(24:12):
graphics.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I love that.
Highest quality lead at thelowest cost.
Is that what you said?
Mm hmm, how often are youtelling people that promise?
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Never, probably.
It's written somewhere.
It might be written on mywebsite and it's in my brain.
Because it's in my brain, so Ithink about it.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
But, I don't say that ever I don't say that on the
podcast?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I don't think and I don't even think.
I say that on my discoverycalls, my sales calls either
yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I've never heard of.
I know a few ads people, butI've never heard of an ads
person say that I really, reallylike that promise.
And then the thing is, youwould create content about that
promise.
So, for instance, it would behere's the reason why you don't
have high quality leads comingto your webinar, right?
So it's not just like generalads education, and it's then
(25:05):
anchoring everything into yourpromise.
And so, and then the wholeentire, your whole entire
business, your whole entireoffers, all around that one
promise.
Then that's what you becomeknown for.
So, for example, in mymastermind, six figure
liberation, we have six figurelaunches.
That's what we teach.
We'll help you have a sixfigure launch.
I will literally get emails,inquiries, dm being are you the
(25:26):
six figure launch girl?
It's like, yes, yes, I am.
If that's what you want, if youpay me, that's what I can help
you create.
And so then that's how youactually become known for a
process, known for a method, andyou're not just another
business coach, another moneycoach, another weight loss coach
.
You actually have a uniquepromise that separates you from
everyone else.
So I say at 250, the number oneissue I see uniqueness across
(25:51):
the board is that you're notunique.
You don't have a unique promise, you don't have unique content,
you don't have unique IPframeworks interesting things
where people are like, huh, Inever tried it that way before
or I never heard of that promisebefore.
Like people always say, DL,you're so bold to promise six
figure launches, Like we do itall the time.
Like it's not bold to me?
Right, and that immediatelyseparates me.
(26:14):
I felt this is probablyterrible to say, but I felt so
bad.
This one person was like thisis the queen of launching.
I looked at her sales page 13 Klaunch, 28 K launch.
I said oh, we do that in oursleep I was like, oh, this is
nuts, that's how you want tofeel, though, right, I don't.
I literally don't have anycompetition, and so, and that
(26:35):
just means, like, I know how tocoach, I know how to teach, I
know how to deliver, which inthe done for you world, you can
retain your expertise and youall have that skill.
But the number one issue andthe reason why people don't go
from 250 to five, that gap 100%about uniqueness.
The leads are there.
That's how you make the money.
To begin with, the leads arethere, but they're like okay,
(26:57):
what's the difference betweenyou and somebody else?
Then you're just competing offa price.
What do you think Sounds?
Speaker 1 (27:01):
good to me.
Yeah, the question in my mindis can I really anchor content
around that promise?
Because that sounds like apromise that every ads manager
would have.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
But do they In my brain?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
I don't think they do right.
Like for me.
I'm like are you a launch coachIf you don't help your people
have six figure launches?
There's a lot of them out there, though, and so, like I just
said, I I don't think so.
I I think for me, in myexperience with ads, I think a
lot of them operate off of anymoney is good money, and what
(27:34):
I'm hearing, the difference fromyou is like you really focus on
the optimization, and so I amlike actually letting the dollar
like actually mean more, makingmore money from the dollar
versus just making money period,and so I, with the ads people
that I've talked to, they'remore just so worried about
getting their client any saleand just getting them any ROI.
(27:56):
That optimization is often anafterthought.
That's just my.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
I'm curious, like what you all have heard, but yet
that's kind of like my thoughtSounds good.
I like that spot.
I'm going to have to come backand study this episode.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, yeah, but I I definitely across the board.
Uniqueness and being differentand like having different things
to say about the skill youteach is the number one thing
nice, what was that different?
Speaker 3 (28:22):
is better than you always say that different is
better than better different isbetter than better yeah, yeah,
that's I like that.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I'm gonna start saying that yeah it's not mine,
it also came from that guy.
Yeah, okay, good, yeah, anyother episode?
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Sean Campbell Okay, good.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Any other reasons why you think you've plateaued Well
I guess there's two reasonsactually.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
One is something that we're working on right now,
which is that we have a suite ofcourses that help Anyone who it
just doesn't make sense fortheir business to hire an ads
manager run ads successfullythemselves.
But we've been sitting on thecourses and not really developed
a funnel to sell them.
Let's call it the secret behindthe scenes email upsell funnel.
(29:10):
We're working on that.
I don't know.
In the past weeks, how manysales pages have we made?
Email sequences have we written?
How many sales pages have wemade and email sequences have we
written?
I think, not think, but I know.
Specifically last year I didscale higher up to like where
were we at?
Like 40,000.
We hit two $40,000 months rightin there and at the time I was
(29:34):
doing so with more like anagency model where I had an ads
manager.
I have two, we'll say one andit just didn't work out, Ended
up dropping the ball too manytimes and at the end of the day
I could not do at that level,like with that many clients.
With my current systems that Ihad at the time, I couldn't do
the quality work that I would beproud of.
So what we did is werestructured and now it's just
(29:57):
us managing ads for clients andbuilding back the business.
I think those are the only twothings that we've really had to
improve.
Also, like marketing minuteswould be a third Really getting
good at reaching out to peoplethat follow on Instagram,
finding out what their needs are.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I love that.
Can I burst your bubble?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Absolutely Please, please, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I think you should bring the agency back.
I was going to say the secondreason why people are at 250 and
they don't go to five Hiring.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Hiring and delivery and like finding people to
either coach for you or findingdelivery.
I have and I could tell youafter this podcast or I could
say it right now I have theperfect person that would help
you scale an agency.
I have and I could tell youafter this podcast or I could
say it right now I have theperfect person that would help
you scale an agency.
I have the perfect.
She's one of my best friends.
She's helped many agency ownershit half a million specifically
and so, yeah, if you wanted toput that option back on the
(30:50):
table, I have the perfect personand she's heard it all as far
as like delivery problems, likeservice provider problems.
She's heard it all and sodefinitely be able to help you
there.
But I was wondering if that wasgoing to come up, and it
certainly did.
And the second thing would behiring.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean straight up, like I have
the SOPs.
You know, standard operatingprocedures.
You know I've trained a handful, an actual handful.
I can see their names of adsmanagers.
And ultimately I had to decidelast year.
You know what I need to be theone doing it for quality and did
you do a test project in thehiring?
(31:27):
A test project?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Yeah, yes, what was the disconnect between the test
project and like what washappening in the system?
And I don't know if this is tootechnical.
We don't have too technical.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
The biggest problem is is, after the test project,
the hiring process and even theonboarding process and the
training process.
Like my training's ratherstraightforward, like inside my
own programs, plus a bunch ofonboarding, like you know, loom
systematic.
What eventually would end uphappening over and over again is
that the quality that I wouldsee from like a junior ads
(32:02):
manager would start to go downand I would end up spending more
time like managing them andchecking up on their accounts.
But the thing is is like thetechnical skills that they would
have Great because I trainedthem well on the technical
skills, would have great becauseI trained them well on the
technical skills.
But then, after a bit, liketheir attention to detail or
(32:23):
just their commitment to, Iguess, finish the finish the job
and not make mistakes andclient ad copies or actually
continue to do like the rigoroustesting needed to make sure,
like we were as low as we couldgo while still having a quality
client.
Like that just happened too manytimes, you know, and it's a
small online world andreputation is.
(32:44):
Ads manager is already like aswear word in so many circles
you know, so, like reputation isreally, really key and so, like
I had to make a decision andthat's as far as I got.
Like maybe I could swing backto this or revisit this agency
model and like figure out how tohave an employee that provides
the quality and care that like Iwould, and that would be
(33:06):
awesome.
But up until talking to youright now, like I basically
resigned myself to the fact that, like it would be me and Jamie
managing the ads.
And then because it's ourbusiness.
Like we can, Because we care,we care about it.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
If I were to give one suggestion.
It sounds like the test projectwasn't stress test enough is
what I call it where it's notrealistic in the trenches type
of test project.
So I'm just making something up, and I know nothing about ads,
but what if the test projectcould simulate what a week in
the life was like?
(33:41):
And so what if it's like I?
Again, I have no idea how itwould do this, but my brain is
coming up to like.
You have to manage threedifferent accounts, so I want
you to do the ads, whatever thatmeans, for three different
accounts.
Also, one of them isn'tconverting.
What would you say to a client?
And also, how would you thenfix the ads without increasing
(34:02):
spend?
All within a 72 hour timeperiod.
The test project is timed andyou can't ask any questions Go
and so then right and so likefor me.
I just I just hired a new opsperson.
I gave her about six projectsto do in four days and I said
show me screenshots, give me aloom video and also break down
all your reasons behind yourdecision and also answer these
(34:24):
five customer service mockquestions.
And how would you respond?
You have four days, there areno questions, go, and so I think
often when that happens, likeif the test project was good,
but when they get into thebusiness they kind of like fall
apart a little bit the testproject didn't like stress test
them like I think about.
This is right.
At disney world that acts likea car simulation, like where
(34:46):
you're, you know being crashedinto the car, like you stress
test it.
That's actually what you wantthe the test project to be and a
lot of people will, that myclients will do it and they're
like oh, I had five applicationsthat I loved, but only two test
projects back good that's whatyou want.
You should have then one or twopeople who actually make it,
(35:06):
and that's that's.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
That's the point and I want to be clear for everybody
on the episode.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
The test project is paid.
It's paid for their time.
But yeah, yes, yeah, a littleshift that may or may not help,
but yeah, I think that couldhelp, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, I think what you just said off the top of
your head actually is a lotcloser, like having a test
product that's way closer to aweek in the life.
Because if they can think ofhow to communicate with the
client if the going is notsmooth, plus how to handle like
those other requirements and notask me questions, well then
(35:42):
that also saves me time from amanagement perspective right
they're telling me what theytried to figure out, instead of
just dropping the ball and notsaying anything.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Or yeah, okay, all right my thing when it comes to
hiring is if all these otherbusinesses can figure it out, if
all these other large adsagencies can figure it out.
Similar to sales as a process.
What if hiring is just aprocess?
I'm just missing a piece.
Right, I'm just missing apuzzle.
I'm like, oh, my test projectwasn't good enough.
(36:11):
Next time, like I'm going tohave to rehire a marketing
person and I know exactly likemy test project didn't include
what I want, next time I'm goingto include that, I'm going to
stress, test that.
What if it's just a piecemissing?
Same thing with sales.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
That's extremely good , really good.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Yeah, Can you run back through really quick?
The power stands for one moretime.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Sure yes, for anyone that might have missed it Sure,
yes, p stands for person, ostands for one more time.
Or yes, or anyone that mighthave missed it.
Sure, yes, p stands for person,o stands for outcome.
So this is the general outcomeof your offer.
W stands for winning skill, sowhat is the skill that you're
teaching?
E is exceptional angle.
So what makes it different?
(36:56):
What makes your offer differentand unique?
And then R is a result that canbe measured.
People ask me what is thedifference between the O and the
R?
The outcome and the result.
Outcome is general, R isspecific.
Yeah, so like for me and likemy five figure freedom program,
the outcome would be have afull-time business.
The result would be make 10K in90 days.
Okay, great.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
My fingers are are furiously typing, I put the
keyboard in my lap so hopefullyyou can't.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
No, no, all right deal.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
This has been a very thank you so much, very
impactful episode this was superfun.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
I love having these type of conversations.
Right, right, I got quiet.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
When I get quiet, that means okay.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
My brain is really thinking he's thinking
everything that's been coming in, no, thank you, that's okay I
could have my.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
I could have my video editor edit out the quiet parts
.
So no, you were great, you weregreat it just looks like I have
responses right away.
You know, not like I'm like ohmy gosh, I can't answer this one
, yeah you had said in the lastepisode that the place that
people should go to hear morefrom you because I'm sure
everybody's going to want tohear more from you after this is
(38:04):
your podcast.
Do you want to talk aboutanything else right now, or are
we going to just say let's golisten to your podcast?
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, go check out the podcast.
And if you want to go to myfree training, you can go to
dlsharancom slash free dashtraining.
There's a free training there.
But my podcast is where you canhear more of my sales musings
and all my ideas and how you canincrease your sales.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
I like your ideas.
That's the Women of Color SalesShow Podcast.
I'll link it up in the shownotes and the YouTube
descriptions below.
Otherwise, your training is atdlsharoncom.
Forward slash training, forwardslash free, or was it forward
slash free?
Forward slash training?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Free dash training.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Free dash training.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Free dash training Awesome.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Great, thank you all.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
This has been great, so fun.
Thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
We appreciate having you on the show.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Thank you all, so much, all right and listener, as
always.
So much, thank you.
We appreciate having you on theshow.
Thank you all so much.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
All right and listener, as always be blessed
and have a great day.
Thanks for listening.
Bye.
Welcome back to the second of two episodes featuring
DL Charan.
And at the end of the lastepisode and I'm going to
introduce her in a moment Right,Jamie, yes, Right At the end of
the last episode, she said thatlearning sales conversations
changed her life.
If you have webinars in yourbusiness or discovery calls in
your business and you want togreatly increase your income,
(00:23):
I'm talking like going from asocial worker at a university
who has to commute 1.5 hourseach way, so three hours of
commute every day, making$29,000 a year.
Did you say?
That's what you started with DL?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
$39,000.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
$39,000, okay a little higher to now having had
three years in a row of grossingwell over a million dollars in
your business.
If that sounds like the kind ofgrowth you would like to have,
well then, meet DL Charan.
She's a certified life coach, aseven figure sales expert for
women of color coaches, andshe's the host of the Women of
(01:01):
Color Sales Show podcast withover 150,000 downloads, and she
runs two sales programs, theFive Figure Freedom and Six
Figure Liberation, which haveserved over 300 women of color.
We just wrapped up, moments ago, a phenomenal episode where we
got to know DL a bit.
We got to know about where shecame from, how in the world she
(01:24):
went from making $39,000 a yearas a social worker to where she
is now, and some of the yeah, Iguess we'll just call them life
journeys.
In this episode, though, we'regoing to talk about sales and DL
.
You have something called thePower 75 Framework.
You said you also are down toaudit our sales process a little
(01:47):
bit, so it seems like in thisepisode, we're going to have to
get a little transparent.
I want to share, though Iresonated with that sentence.
First of all, welcome to theshow.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Thank you, I'm so excited to be here again, right.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I'm excited to also interview you again and to chat
with you again, though it feelslike you're about to interview
us.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Right.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
I'm a little nervous.
It'll be light.
It'll be light, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I had to remind myself to change my body
language and lean towards themicrophone so people can hear me
rather than loud, all right.
So I had a question and beforewe get into everything else,
what is the sales unlock?
If you will that more peopleshould be learning.
I know it has the AI wordunlock, but I wrote that
question myself what's the onething that?
You feel like really doeschange the game, though, for
(02:40):
people who have discovery callsor sales calls or webinars.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, I would say first, do them.
I think, like there's so manypeople that don't have any live
call component as a part oftheir business.
They want it to be fullyevergreen or fully referral
based, or I'll see them, youknow, write blogs and emails and
instagram captions untilthey're blue in the face, all to
avoid talking to people in alive call.
(03:07):
So I would say, if you don'thave those things, put them in
your business.
Your business will literallydouble.
If you just did that, like ifyou just did that, your sales
would go through the roof.
So, number one, do them.
And then number two, I wouldsay, keep it simple.
One of the things I talk aboutwhen it comes to sales calls is
we are told one of two things tokind of just wing it and be
(03:31):
personal and don't try to besalesy.
And then the other part is tohave like a 14 step script to
make you know you have to saythis and then it's like a tree
and if they said this, then youhave to feed into that question
and don't leave the call unlessthey pay.
And it's those two extremes,right, like I call it, like the
used car salesman being likewait, wait, wait, I'll slash
another $500 off.
(03:52):
Right Is that energy?
And there's another way betweenboth right, where you don't
have to wing it.
I've been on so many sales callswhere I want to buy something
and I could just tell that andit's from good intentions, like
I could just tell that theperson doesn't want to be salesy
, so they don't have any process.
But then it's like am I leadingthe call?
(04:12):
Are you leading the call?
I have questions I have like,and then we're kind of in this
like power play versus like thathardcore script that I was
talking about.
You can ditch both methods andthere is a different way.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Nice, I love it, I like it.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Love it.
I'm chuckling to myself becauseback in my previous business,
where I taught folks who areworking in China how to learn
Mandarin Chinese, I had at thevery end, you know, after I gave
them an option and both optionswere yes I would always, almost
all the time, say that like howabout I just stay on?
(04:48):
Like we stay on this Zoom call,like while you authorize the
payment, because but I had anexcuse, which was because I was
living in China using whateverpayment processor here in the
States.
I was like sometimes there'sjust hiccups and it doesn't work
out, so like I'll just stayhere while you go ahead and
process the pavement and ifthere's any hiccup, like I can
(05:09):
help get you around it and likethat worked most of the time.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yeah, actually people were like, okay, cool.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
But I think it's just that, like I could feel your
authenticity and like it was areal thing, like I could feel
that as you were delivering it,and it also made sense like
logical sense, versus like a lotof people don't have that
reason and don't have that likegoal in mind, and you can also
feel the energy of that.
So I also say like I use theexample all the time like when I
(05:39):
was planning my wedding vendorswould say like hey, it's just
easier if I take your card overthe phone, or you'll have to do
a 3% charge fee if I send you alink, blah, blah, blah.
And so, yeah, there could beseveral logistical reasons that
make sense, but if it's more ofa pressure reason, I think
people could feel the difference.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
People can feel the difference.
Prior preparation prevents poorperformance is a quote that I
stole from a guy named SeanCannell, and who knows where he
got it from.
What do you believe makes thedifference in a sales call?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Well, I can just kind of share my method here, if
that's okay.
Sure, well, that's actually amessaging tool.
My sales call framework's alittle different yeah.
So messaging and I think this isa good, like even point of
conversation A lot of peopleconfuse, like marketing versus
messaging, versus sales, sales,all of those different things
and I think messaging andmarketing are more of the
(06:31):
front-facing client things.
I'm sure you all, as adspecialists, do a lot of things
with messaging, and then what Ikind of count as sales is where
you're having a conversationwith someone, and it could be
conversation through email orsomething else, but it's
typically a live conversation,either on a webinar or on a
sales call.
So my Power 75 framework isgreat for messaging, which I'll,
of course, talk about.
(06:52):
But my sales call process isvery simple and it's also pretty
intuitive.
It's called triage, treatmentplan, tell the offer and so
triage, just like how you wereto go to urgent care or the
doctor and you want to get clearon the problem first.
I can't tell you how many timespeople have been taught to start
the sales call off with so thisis my offer and this is what
(07:13):
I'm going to offer you, or doyou want to buy it Like?
No, you got to.
You have to triage the clientfirst and then you have
treatment plan, and this is whata lot of people miss is you
don't want to go from problem tosolution.
You want to offer a treatmentplan.
So here are the three thingsthat we're going to do together.
Here are the three solutionsthat we're going to solve, and
you want each one to be customto your client and then you can
(07:37):
get into telling about the offerafter they agree that the
treatment plan is what they wantand you don't have to make any
edits to it.
So, triage treatment plan, tellthe offer.
It's very social worky, becausethat's my background.
That was the process that I usedwhen I had to assess people and
I had to get a stranger's trustabout very difficult and
vulnerable problems prettyimmediately, and so that was the
(07:59):
framework that I use in orderto get someone's trust and that
is the process that I've taughtmy clients, and they get a
hundred percent sales callconversions.
That's kind of like the vibeand freedom, as you should be
aiming for a hundred percentsales call conversions If if a
client.
Yeah, if a client said no,that's thousands of dollars
walking out the window, likesomething happened.
Especially if you're working onpart-time hours, every call
(08:22):
counts, and so a hundred percentconversions is the goal.
Is the goal not?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
oh, it burns me up when people like oh, 30 is great
30 no, no, no, that's bad,that's terrible right, that's
terrible.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Or even 70 I'm like seven that other 30 could have
kicked you over to 500k, couldhave kicked you over to whatever
income goal.
So yeah, I'm very passionateabout a hundred percent
conversions.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Well then, can we like camp out here?
Because as I interview folks onthis podcast, I hear and I
learn a lot, but having been inthe online course creation space
like, I guess the amount I'mlearning it's shrinking somewhat
, If that makes sense, Cause weinterview a lot of people.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I guess the amount of new things.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Now I always tell people that 60% like it's pretty
solid, and you just kind ofchanged everything that's going
on in my brain because you'relike, no, we should not be
settling for 60%.
Did she just say 70%?
70% is not even that great sowhat's the difference between a
70% and 100% closing rate?
And if you say a percentage,I'm going to hit.
(09:24):
Stop record.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
That's such a good question, like what is the
difference?
I see all sorts of things.
Oh my God, I've seen all sortsof things.
I would say if I were to groupit into themes.
This is one thing that peopleget wrong a lot is they say
their framework that's like ontheir sales page, or whatever
they say their framework on thesales on their sales page, or
whatever they say theirframework on the sales call,
that will immediately drop yourconversion.
(09:48):
Nobody wants to feel likethey're in this pre prescribed
box and like to fit themselvesinto something.
So I always say do not talkabout your framework.
Give a custom plan that yourprogram and your course or
whatever can provide.
Don't get me wrong.
I'm not saying like doone-on-one coaching and do
(10:08):
private.
You know custom builds thewhole time.
Your offer can provide it, butyou want the sales call to feel
so custom and so specific.
And it's it's very simple logicto me.
Like if you are a money coachand you're over here talking
about your program and yourframework and part of that
(10:30):
program and framework isinvesting, but the client is
struggling with debt payoff,they're like well, I don't wanna
pay for something, that's notmy problem.
So that's the reason why I saydon't put your framework in it,
because the client only has oneproblem.
But you're selling them on five.
You think you're doing a valueout, but they're like wait, I
don't want any of that, thatother stuff.
(10:52):
I'll tell you a little bit of afail that I had and you can
apply this on webinars too.
I tell you a fail that I had.
So I had the bright idea toinclude a coaching certification
inside of my program, because alot of people that we would get
emails and be like what if Inever coach anybody before, can
I still join your program?
And so I said what if wecreated a certification or a
training program for people?
(11:13):
So I was on the webinar, I waspitching my program and I was
mainly talking about how it's asales program.
Then I said and we just rolledout this certification no cost
to you, you also get thecertification.
We got so many emails beinglike can we buy it without the
certification?
I don't want that.
That's not my problem.
I don't want that in there.
And so we think that it's avalue app, but people only want
(11:36):
to pay for what they need andnothing else.
Yeah, it's a little interesting, but I would say, like, that's
probably one of the main thingswhere you're converting but
you're not converting all theway.
If you took out frameworks,you'll probably get there.
I would say too, it's calledit's one of the things I call
believability where the personmay not believe what you're
(11:59):
saying.
So if you're saying you'regoing to help them lose a
hundred pounds or you're sayingyou're going to help them, you
know, double their income, theymay not believe you.
So one of the things I, one ofthe strategies that I offer
people, is you have to sellsupport and you have to sell.
I call it togetherness, thatyou're going to do things
together so that the clientbelieves you.
So example say you're like, okay, I'm going to help you get a
(12:21):
new job, you'll have a new jobin 90 days.
And someone's like, oh, I don'tknow if I'm going to believe you
or I don't know if I believeyou.
You would say, well, we'regoing to do your resume together
.
You and I are literally goingto share screen and we're going
to go line by line and do yourresume together.
I'll also do mock calls withyou for your interview so that
you can get really tailored onwhat exactly you're going to say
.
So then, once you actually getthe interview your first
(12:43):
interview you actually are goingto close and that they're going
to go with you as the candidate, and then the client can see
the bridge, because they'reseeing all the levels of how
you're going to be doingsomething together, versus it's
not just this pipe dream thatthe client's going to have to
figure out all on their own.
So there's several like hacksand little things like that, but
I would say frameworks andbelievability and togetherness
(13:05):
is what I call it are probablythe top two.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Nice Because people want to feel, yeah, supported,
and they need to see how it'sgoing to work.
Right, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
We never do the listener enough service by
waiting until the end to saywhere can they hear more from
you.
So, like right now, where canthe listener go to learn more
from you?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Like the next step, because this is going to be a
really good episode but likethings happen and not everybody
finishes the episode, oh sureyou could tune into my show.
It's called the woman of colorsales podcast.
I would say that's the bestplace.
And then DL Charon, my name, onall platforms, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Okay, nice.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Lovely.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Thank you for sharing that by the way, sure.
Is it time, so ask yourquestion.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Well, I have one more question before we get to sort
of our audit, if you will.
But, was all of this your kindof your sales training or how
you got to be so good at it?
Was it just trial and error andyou started noticing like these
things are working?
Or was it you know throughbooks that you read, or you know
(14:17):
different tactics that youtried, or kind of how did you
develop this, this knack?
Speaker 2 (14:25):
It sounds very egotistical, but literally just
my own creativity.
I I struggled for about a yearon sales calls but then once I
got it, like I would say, sinceI've been doing sales calls, so
that's 2020, so we're up fiveyears and I would say maybe five
people have sent no to me totaland I've done like maybe over
(14:47):
300 sales calls.
Wow yeah and so, and I haven'tread any sales books.
I haven't done any because Ireally try to keep my own IP,
like mine, and so I don't.
I haven't bought any like salescall courses.
It's really was just intuition.
I love talking with people as,again, as a social worker also
(15:08):
as a worker too, I interviewedprobably over a thousand people
in the prison system, so I gotreally good with talking with
people and asking the rightquestion, like I think it's a
lot of my background as a socialworker and yeah, how I thought
everybody knew this.
And then I would see, like my, Iwould force my clients to send
their calls in, like theirrecordings Cause I'm like why
aren't y'all closing?
This is so simple.
(15:29):
And then I was like, oh, y'allare not doing anything that I'm
doing.
And then that's when I startedteaching it.
But I originally I wasn'tteaching sales calls until, like
, my clients were like, yeah, Inever closed.
I was like what's wrong withyou?
Like what?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
are you doing?
This is?
Speaker 2 (15:45):
so easy, just talk, and it's like no, you don't just
talk, there's a whole process.
So yeah, I just kind of a knackfor it.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Okay, cool.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
Great.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Let's make sure that the listener picked up what you
just said, because I heard yousay the word intuition and I'm
saying this like in a heartfeltway from the bottom of my heart,
that I don't want you listeningto this episode as DL and Jamie
and I talk and I think thatlike it's okay just to go by
intuition in a sales call orjust to go like and wing it Like
(16:14):
we are not wing it, people, asfar as sales calls go.
And I've heard you say the wordprocess a number of times and
I'll share quickly that thefirst time I learned sales was a
process.
It changed my life.
I was working at those littleyellow kiosks way back in the
day from Rosetta Stone andbecause I'm a language guy, love
(16:35):
speaking foreign languages, andI remember accepting the job
because I liked languages, eventhough it did have a commission
structure for sales, it wasquite a generous one at the time
.
I did horribly as far asselling went.
You know, for the first periodof time I definitely made it
with like the hourly, like basepay that they provided.
And then I remember lookinginto the system because we could
(16:56):
see like the territories andall the kiosks in the
territories and every weekthey'd have to report their
numbers.
So I could see that like therewas one kiosk that was crushing
it in sales, like tripling,quadrupling what I was selling,
which meant they're making a lotof money off of like a
part-time deal.
And so I remember taking theday off and driving like 40
(17:17):
minutes to their kiosk, likewalking up, introducing myself
and being like, how are youposting these numbers?
And it was this guy named JoeKunkel, like this at the time he
already was old I was younger,but he was.
He had to have been like midfifties, maybe lower sixties at
the time.
And like he looked at me andjust said, like Kwejo, sells is
(17:39):
a, a process and once you learnthe process, you will sell just
fine.
And like he told me some otherthings and he recommended a book
to me and, to make the storysuper short, like I took his
advice, I read the book, Istudied the book that night and
was able to see, like I thinkwithin within the first week,
like 30% increase in my sales,because I just was showing up
(18:01):
prepared because I wanted money.
It wasn't even a noble enough tosay I really wanted more people
to learn foreign languages Likenow I have something that, like
, I believe in, which is that,like you and I were put here on
earth for a reason, like withgifts and skills and passions,
that, like, we can help otherpeople to affect transformation
in their lives, and so we needto be good with Facebook ads and
(18:23):
Instagram ads so, like, morepeople can change, right.
But then I was just like I justneed money, so all that is to
say I'm not sure what that is tosay.
I identified that when you saidlearning, sales and the process
, uh, changed your life, becauseit did for mine too.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Back then, yeah, and to that point like we can really
be hard on ourselves and itcould feel incredibly personal
getting a no or awkward oh, I'llget back to you late.
Like it you can.
It's sales is very personal,you can't hide, right, Like it's
you.
And so, yeah, I think whenpeople learn like hey, you just
were missing an ingredient tothe recipe, it had nothing to do
(18:59):
with you, it could be veryhealing.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, nice.
So how do?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
we, how do we jump into this?
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Oh well, let me, let me ask you you shared your
income previously, and so do youwant to let the listeners know,
or is it a secret?
Oh well, so for context, dearlistener, we were congratulating
DL because I had seen on herInstagram that, like, this was
her third year, right?
In grossing over a million.
And I was like that soundsamazing.
I've been capped out at$250,000, just slightly under
there, $230,000, $225,000.
(19:33):
And she said, oh well, we couldlike do an audit, look at your
process.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
And I was like okay, sure, and so I would love to do
that.
So what is y'all's currentprocess right now, like from
newly to buyer, how, what's yourfunnel?
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Good question.
I should say that most of myclients actually come from word
of mouth and I think since whendid we really start getting
serious about doing outreach?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Probably in the fall.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Was that in the fall?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Well, summer, no it was earlier because I started
doing more outreach, probablyMay, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, so for the clients we're actually that's
still a big question mark.
We're still trying to figureout how to set up a funnel that
brings in new clients who we didnot previously know.
Now, currently the outreachthat we do or the lead magnet
that we have the people that getthose lead magnets usually are
(20:29):
a better fit to work with us onthe course basis or inside of a
course or maybe one-on-onecoaching.
But some of the one-on-onecoaching clients I've had have
become ads management clients.
So we could say if there was aloose funnel it would be lead
magnet to course, to one-on-onecoaching, and that has worked
(20:52):
sometimes Okay.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
What's your income split between all your offers?
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Oh, it's heavy on the ads management side, like 90, I
don't know the percentage likemost of it like 90, above 95,
heavy on the ads management side, like like 90, I don't know the
percentage like most of it,like 90 above 95% comes from ads
management.
Okay, well, sorry, the offersare a suite of courses.
That's not true.
The offers are a suite ofcourses and one-on-one coaching
and ads management, and actuallyI should just track it better.
(21:16):
But one-on-one coachingactually makes up a little bit.
Let's call it 90% adsmanagement for a good round
number and like 8% coaching, andthe courses are very small.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Okay, for the sake of this conversation, let's just
say that you have greatretention for your retainer, for
your ads retainer.
Let's just assume I'm assumingthat's the case, and so let's
assume that, perfect, great.
You never know what serviceproviders.
And so I'm like let's justassume you have great retention
and if not, let's fix that.
But yeah, let's assume you havegreat retention, so that's
(21:49):
great.
So my next question is whereare you creating ads education?
Speaker 1 (21:54):
On what platform?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Primarily Instagram.
The podcast does get repurposedto YouTube.
Unique content, though that'snot just more concisely edited
podcast is on Instagram.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
What's your promise for your retainer?
Well then, this would be a greattime to introduce Power 75.
So Power 75 is my messagingtool on how you communicate your
offer.
So, similar to thisconversation.
We typically say, oh, I dobusiness coaching or I have this
ads management offer, but whatdoes the offer do?
That's what Power 75 willcommunicate, and there's five
(22:29):
yeah, and so there's five partsof it.
It's what's who's the person?
So that's the P who's theperson.
The outcome, what's the generaloutcome of this offer.
And then you want to thinkabout it.
It's going to be general, short, sweet, like what you would put
in an Instagram bio.
You have the W, which is theskill, and so yours is very
clear.
A lot of people's aren't.
(22:49):
It's not clear where you haveto think about what skill are
you teaching people, becausepeople love to buy skills.
You then have ease, which areexceptional angles, and this is
going to be my next question,like what makes your ad strategy
different from other people'sad strategy, or what are your ad
philosophies?
That might be a littlecontroversial.
And then your r is a result,and so what can somebody expect?
(23:13):
If they pay you money, what arethey going to get back?
What result will they get back?
And so that's the Power 75framework.
So when I ask like what's yourresult or what's your promise,
or how is your offer different,power 75 can kind of give you
some language on how toarticulate that.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
Got you.
Well, my offer is differentbecause I focus heavily on
testing ads and, like I believethat lots of money is left on
the table when we're not testingenough different messaging
versions, if you will, of adcopy and graphics and so I'm a
tester, I do all the boringtesting so that we can find the
(23:50):
one ad that outperforms the 19or the one ad that outperforms
the 49.
And the closest thing I wouldhave to a promise is that, like
it's like working with me, youfind the highest quality lead at
the lowest cost possible.
It's not just a cost per leadgame, it's about finding quality
leads, and that has to do withwell research, messaging and
(24:12):
graphics.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
I love that.
Highest quality lead at thelowest cost.
Is that what you said?
Mm hmm, how often are youtelling people that promise?
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Never, probably.
It's written somewhere.
It might be written on mywebsite and it's in my brain.
Because it's in my brain, so Ithink about it.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
But, I don't say that ever I don't say that on the
podcast?
Speaker 1 (24:35):
I don't think and I don't even think.
I say that on my discoverycalls, my sales calls either
yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I've never heard of.
I know a few ads people, butI've never heard of an ads
person say that I really, reallylike that promise.
And then the thing is, youwould create content about that
promise.
So, for instance, it would behere's the reason why you don't
have high quality leads comingto your webinar, right?
So it's not just like generalads education, and it's then
(25:05):
anchoring everything into yourpromise.
And so, and then the wholeentire, your whole entire
business, your whole entireoffers, all around that one
promise.
Then that's what you becomeknown for.
So, for example, in mymastermind, six figure
liberation, we have six figurelaunches.
That's what we teach.
We'll help you have a sixfigure launch.
I will literally get emails,inquiries, dm being are you the
(25:26):
six figure launch girl?
It's like, yes, yes, I am.
If that's what you want, if youpay me, that's what I can help
you create.
And so then that's how youactually become known for a
process, known for a method, andyou're not just another
business coach, another moneycoach, another weight loss coach
.
You actually have a uniquepromise that separates you from
everyone else.
So I say at 250, the number oneissue I see uniqueness across
(25:51):
the board is that you're notunique.
You don't have a unique promise, you don't have unique content,
you don't have unique IPframeworks interesting things
where people are like, huh, Inever tried it that way before
or I never heard of that promisebefore.
Like people always say, DL,you're so bold to promise six
figure launches, Like we do itall the time.
Like it's not bold to me?
Right, and that immediatelyseparates me.
(26:14):
I felt this is probablyterrible to say, but I felt so
bad.
This one person was like thisis the queen of launching.
I looked at her sales page 13 Klaunch, 28 K launch.
I said oh, we do that in oursleep I was like, oh, this is
nuts, that's how you want tofeel, though, right, I don't.
I literally don't have anycompetition, and so, and that
(26:35):
just means, like, I know how tocoach, I know how to teach, I
know how to deliver, which inthe done for you world, you can
retain your expertise and youall have that skill.
But the number one issue andthe reason why people don't go
from 250 to five, that gap 100%about uniqueness.
The leads are there.
That's how you make the money.
To begin with, the leads arethere, but they're like okay,
(26:57):
what's the difference betweenyou and somebody else?
Then you're just competing offa price.
What do you think Sounds?
Speaker 1 (27:01):
good to me.
Yeah, the question in my mindis can I really anchor content
around that promise?
Because that sounds like apromise that every ads manager
would have.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
But do they In my brain?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
I don't think they do right.
Like for me.
I'm like are you a launch coachIf you don't help your people
have six figure launches?
There's a lot of them out there, though, and so, like I just
said, I I don't think so.
I I think for me, in myexperience with ads, I think a
lot of them operate off of anymoney is good money, and what
(27:34):
I'm hearing, the difference fromyou is like you really focus on
the optimization, and so I amlike actually letting the dollar
like actually mean more, makingmore money from the dollar
versus just making money period,and so I, with the ads people
that I've talked to, they'remore just so worried about
getting their client any saleand just getting them any ROI.
(27:56):
That optimization is often anafterthought.
That's just my.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
I'm curious, like what you all have heard, but yet
that's kind of like my thoughtSounds good.
I like that spot.
I'm going to have to come backand study this episode.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, yeah, but I I definitely across the board.
Uniqueness and being differentand like having different things
to say about the skill youteach is the number one thing
nice, what was that different?
Speaker 3 (28:22):
is better than you always say that different is
better than better different isbetter than better yeah, yeah,
that's I like that.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I'm gonna start saying that yeah it's not mine,
it also came from that guy.
Yeah, okay, good, yeah, anyother episode?
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Sean Campbell Okay, good.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Any other reasons why you think you've plateaued Well
I guess there's two reasonsactually.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
One is something that we're working on right now,
which is that we have a suite ofcourses that help Anyone who it
just doesn't make sense fortheir business to hire an ads
manager run ads successfullythemselves.
But we've been sitting on thecourses and not really developed
a funnel to sell them.
Let's call it the secret behindthe scenes email upsell funnel.
(29:10):
We're working on that.
I don't know.
In the past weeks, how manysales pages have we made?
Email sequences have we written?
How many sales pages have wemade and email sequences have we
written?
I think, not think, but I know.
Specifically last year I didscale higher up to like where
were we at?
Like 40,000.
We hit two $40,000 months rightin there and at the time I was
(29:34):
doing so with more like anagency model where I had an ads
manager.
I have two, we'll say one andit just didn't work out, Ended
up dropping the ball too manytimes and at the end of the day
I could not do at that level,like with that many clients.
With my current systems that Ihad at the time, I couldn't do
the quality work that I would beproud of.
So what we did is werestructured and now it's just
(29:57):
us managing ads for clients andbuilding back the business.
I think those are the only twothings that we've really had to
improve.
Also, like marketing minuteswould be a third Really getting
good at reaching out to peoplethat follow on Instagram,
finding out what their needs are.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I love that.
Can I burst your bubble?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Absolutely Please, please, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
I think you should bring the agency back.
I was going to say the secondreason why people are at 250 and
they don't go to five Hiring.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Hiring and delivery and like finding people to
either coach for you or findingdelivery.
I have and I could tell youafter this podcast or I could
say it right now I have theperfect person that would help
you scale an agency.
I have and I could tell youafter this podcast or I could
say it right now I have theperfect person that would help
you scale an agency.
I have the perfect.
She's one of my best friends.
She's helped many agency ownershit half a million specifically
and so, yeah, if you wanted toput that option back on the
(30:50):
table, I have the perfect personand she's heard it all as far
as like delivery problems, likeservice provider problems.
She's heard it all and sodefinitely be able to help you
there.
But I was wondering if that wasgoing to come up, and it
certainly did.
And the second thing would behiring.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean straight up, like I have
the SOPs.
You know, standard operatingprocedures.
You know I've trained a handful, an actual handful.
I can see their names of adsmanagers.
And ultimately I had to decidelast year.
You know what I need to be theone doing it for quality and did
you do a test project in thehiring?
(31:27):
A test project?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
Yeah, yes, what was the disconnect between the test
project and like what washappening in the system?
And I don't know if this is tootechnical.
We don't have too technical.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
The biggest problem is is, after the test project,
the hiring process and even theonboarding process and the
training process.
Like my training's ratherstraightforward, like inside my
own programs, plus a bunch ofonboarding, like you know, loom
systematic.
What eventually would end uphappening over and over again is
that the quality that I wouldsee from like a junior ads
(32:02):
manager would start to go downand I would end up spending more
time like managing them andchecking up on their accounts.
But the thing is is like thetechnical skills that they would
have Great because I trainedthem well on the technical
skills, would have great becauseI trained them well on the
technical skills.
But then, after a bit, liketheir attention to detail or
(32:23):
just their commitment to, Iguess, finish the finish the job
and not make mistakes andclient ad copies or actually
continue to do like the rigoroustesting needed to make sure,
like we were as low as we couldgo while still having a quality
client.
Like that just happened too manytimes, you know, and it's a
small online world andreputation is.
(32:44):
Ads manager is already like aswear word in so many circles
you know, so, like reputation isreally, really key and so, like
I had to make a decision andthat's as far as I got.
Like maybe I could swing backto this or revisit this agency
model and like figure out how tohave an employee that provides
the quality and care that like Iwould, and that would be
(33:06):
awesome.
But up until talking to youright now, like I basically
resigned myself to the fact that, like it would be me and Jamie
managing the ads.
And then because it's ourbusiness.
Like we can, Because we care,we care about it.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
If I were to give one suggestion.
It sounds like the test projectwasn't stress test enough is
what I call it where it's notrealistic in the trenches type
of test project.
So I'm just making something up, and I know nothing about ads,
but what if the test projectcould simulate what a week in
the life was like?
(33:41):
And so what if it's like I?
Again, I have no idea how itwould do this, but my brain is
coming up to like.
You have to manage threedifferent accounts, so I want
you to do the ads, whatever thatmeans, for three different
accounts.
Also, one of them isn'tconverting.
What would you say to a client?
And also, how would you thenfix the ads without increasing
(34:02):
spend?
All within a 72 hour timeperiod.
The test project is timed andyou can't ask any questions Go
and so then right and so likefor me.
I just I just hired a new opsperson.
I gave her about six projectsto do in four days and I said
show me screenshots, give me aloom video and also break down
all your reasons behind yourdecision and also answer these
(34:24):
five customer service mockquestions.
And how would you respond?
You have four days, there areno questions, go, and so I think
often when that happens, likeif the test project was good,
but when they get into thebusiness they kind of like fall
apart a little bit the testproject didn't like stress test
them like I think about.
This is right.
At disney world that acts likea car simulation, like where
(34:46):
you're, you know being crashedinto the car, like you stress
test it.
That's actually what you wantthe the test project to be and a
lot of people will, that myclients will do it and they're
like oh, I had five applicationsthat I loved, but only two test
projects back good that's whatyou want.
You should have then one or twopeople who actually make it,
(35:06):
and that's that's.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
That's the point and I want to be clear for everybody
on the episode.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
The test project is paid.
It's paid for their time.
But yeah, yes, yeah, a littleshift that may or may not help,
but yeah, I think that couldhelp, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, I think what you just said off the top of
your head actually is a lotcloser, like having a test
product that's way closer to aweek in the life.
Because if they can think ofhow to communicate with the
client if the going is notsmooth, plus how to handle like
those other requirements and notask me questions, well then
(35:42):
that also saves me time from amanagement perspective right
they're telling me what theytried to figure out, instead of
just dropping the ball and notsaying anything.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Or yeah, okay, all right my thing when it comes to
hiring is if all these otherbusinesses can figure it out, if
all these other large adsagencies can figure it out.
Similar to sales as a process.
What if hiring is just aprocess?
I'm just missing a piece.
Right, I'm just missing apuzzle.
I'm like, oh, my test projectwasn't good enough.
(36:11):
Next time, like I'm going tohave to rehire a marketing
person and I know exactly likemy test project didn't include
what I want, next time I'm goingto include that, I'm going to
stress, test that.
What if it's just a piecemissing?
Same thing with sales.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
That's good.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
That's extremely good , really good.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Yeah, Can you run back through really quick?
The power stands for one moretime.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Sure yes, for anyone that might have missed it Sure,
yes, p stands for person, ostands for one more time.
Or yes, or anyone that mighthave missed it.
Sure, yes, p stands for person,o stands for outcome.
So this is the general outcomeof your offer.
W stands for winning skill, sowhat is the skill that you're
teaching?
E is exceptional angle.
So what makes it different?
(36:56):
What makes your offer differentand unique?
And then R is a result that canbe measured.
People ask me what is thedifference between the O and the
R?
The outcome and the result.
Outcome is general, R isspecific.
Yeah, so like for me and likemy five figure freedom program,
the outcome would be have afull-time business.
The result would be make 10K in90 days.
Okay, great.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
My fingers are are furiously typing, I put the
keyboard in my lap so hopefullyyou can't.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
No, no, all right deal.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
This has been a very thank you so much, very
impactful episode this was superfun.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
I love having these type of conversations.
Right, right, I got quiet.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
When I get quiet, that means okay.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
My brain is really thinking he's thinking
everything that's been coming in, no, thank you, that's okay I
could have my.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
I could have my video editor edit out the quiet parts
.
So no, you were great, you weregreat it just looks like I have
responses right away.
You know, not like I'm like ohmy gosh, I can't answer this one
, yeah you had said in the lastepisode that the place that
people should go to hear morefrom you because I'm sure
everybody's going to want tohear more from you after this is
(38:04):
your podcast.
Do you want to talk aboutanything else right now, or are
we going to just say let's golisten to your podcast?
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah, go check out the podcast.
And if you want to go to myfree training, you can go to
dlsharancom slash free dashtraining.
There's a free training there.
But my podcast is where you canhear more of my sales musings
and all my ideas and how you canincrease your sales.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
I like your ideas.
That's the Women of Color SalesShow Podcast.
I'll link it up in the shownotes and the YouTube
descriptions below.
Otherwise, your training is atdlsharoncom.
Forward slash training, forwardslash free, or was it forward
slash free?
Forward slash training?
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Free dash training.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Free dash training.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Free dash training Awesome.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Great, thank you all.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
This has been great, so fun.
Thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
We appreciate having you on the show.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Thank you all, so much, all right and listener, as
always.
So much, thank you.
We appreciate having you on theshow.
Thank you all so much.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
All right and listener, as always be blessed
and have a great day.
Thanks for listening.
Bye.
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