July 10, 2025 • 28 mins
The Articulate Fly fly fishing podcast returns with another Chocklett Factory update featuring legendary fly designer Blane Chocklett, creator of the revolutionary Game Changer platform and founder of The Chocklett Factory fly company.
Expert Fly Designer and Product Innovator
Blane Chocklett brings decades of guiding experience and fly tying expertise to this comprehensive update on his latest innovations. As the mastermind behind Game Changer flies that have transformed cold water, warm water and saltwater fly fishing, Chocklett shares insights from his extensive travel schedule and product development work.
What You'll Learn
Discover the behind-the-scenes development of multiple new fly patterns hitting the market, including craw changers, hellgrammite changers, leech changers and nymph changers. Learn how Chocklett's new production facility will scale output by 10 times while maintaining his exacting quality standards.
Featured Techniques and Innovations
Explore the enhanced swimming action of the new mop tail changer, which combines the Game Changer platform with a mop tail for irresistible movement. Understand how realistic fly movement and triggering qualities drive fish to eat, even in neutral or negative feeding situations.
Product Development Insights
Get exclusive details on Chocklett's collaboration with TFO on the new Moment saltwater rod series, designed for targeting giant fish with high line speed, tight loops and pinpoint control. Learn about his custom Ahrex hook development project featuring hooks designed specifically for tying Game Changers for optimal fly performance.
Ready to upgrade your fly fishing arsenal with proven patterns from one of the sport's most innovative minds? This episode delivers actionable insights for serious anglers targeting everything from smallmouth to tarpon.
Related Content
S2, Ep 114 - All Things Game Changer with Blane Chocklett
S6, Ep 41 - Smallmouth Secrets and Streamer Savvy with Brendan Ruch
S6, Ep 101 - The Chocklett Factory: Fly Fishing Travels, Conservation and New Ventures
All Things Social Media
Follow Blane on Facebook and Instagram .
Follow The Chocklett Factory on Instagram .
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash,the host of the articulate fly. We're
back with another chocolatefactory with the man himself, Blaine
Chocolate. Blaine, how are you?
I'm good man. How are you doing?
Just trying to stay out oftrouble and stay cool. I imagine
it's about the same up in yourneck of the woods.
Yeah, it's been hot, no doubtabout it.
Glad to not be on the waterI'm sure.
Yeah. Past few days here hasbeen pretty brutal and storms constantly
(00:28):
so definitely not missingdodging those storms every day.
Yeah. Trying to figure outlike where you're not going to get
pelted by hail while you're onthe side of the river.
Right?
Yep. Electrocuted. All thatgood stuff. Waving the fly rod in
there. It's good. That's agood idea. Yeah.
So you know, it's been aminute. I think we probably caught
up, I don't know, a few weeks,maybe a month on the other side of
(00:49):
ty fest. But you've beenpretty darn busy on the product front,
travel front and all kinds ofgood stuff.
Yeah. Yep. I've pretty muchbeen on the road since mid, mid May.
Really Since February I think.Last time I spoke with you I was
heading up to TCO up inBoiling Springs and up at State College.
(01:12):
Did some tying events thereand got to see the team both at both
stores and got to see a lot ofpeople I hadn't seen in a long time
and shared everything gamechanger and taught to people how
to tie the jerk Changers andthe crawl Changers and it was a great
(01:33):
event. It was a super goodtime and after I left that I had
a another event down inTennessee with John down at Tail
Waters right, right there onthe Holston and it's got a great
shop. So anybody any inTennessee that around that area are
going to fish Olson or Wataga,they gotta stop by his shop. He's
(01:56):
got an unbelievable fly tieand basically shop. I mean it's.
He's got a really nice flytying area and he's doing it differently.
Right.
And I, I really like thatthinking outside the box. And he's
got a great coffee shop rightnext door and a really cool micro
brewery and restaurant on theother side of him and you could go
(02:19):
hang out, have a coffee or goget some tie and stuff or flies or
whatever and then go next doorand have a beer and eat some good
food maybe see if there's anyhatches going on on the ol. So I
was impressed with that shot.It Was nice.
Yeah, he's doing a really goodjob. And if you don't want to fly
fish, they got the bait shopnext door too.
Yep, yep. So we had a goodevent there. We had a private tying
(02:44):
clinic for about four or fivehours and I saw some clients that
I had not seen in probably 20some years. And that was really cool
catching up with those guys.And actually when I say clients,
a lot of them were people I'veguided in the past, but several of
them were just people thatbusiness people that came that would
(03:08):
come in my fly shop back whenI had a fly shop and were talking,
you know, mid-90s now, youknow, since I saw some of those people
and you know, it was goodcatching up with them. It's good
to see that they're, they'restill in the fly fishing game and
now currently retired andgetting to fish more and catching
up with those people wasgreat, you know, and I was very appreciative
(03:31):
for them to sign up for my, myclass and you know, show them what
I've been doing over the past20 plus years since I've seen him.
You know, it was good. Andthen meeting new people. So John
had, he had a really goodturnout, really enjoyed that. And
then after that we went over,had lunch over at the Grill Slash
(03:52):
Microbrewery and a lot of theguides after they got off the water
came up. Guides I hadn't seenin years because I used to guide
down in Tennessee a lot. So Ihaven't been down there much and
got to see quite a few peopleI hadn't seen in a while and just
catching up with them and youknow, I'd be. It's kind of funny
(04:12):
playing around with them alittle bit, just talking about spots
on. In places that a lot ofpeople wouldn't know. They're like,
well, how do you know aboutthat? I'm like, well, I used to got
here man, 20, 30 years ago. Soit was just kind of fun doing that
stuff. And then got to go tostay at my good buddy Bob. Cheers.
Had a shop in Bristol whopassed away a few years ago. Was
(04:36):
a great client and friend andstay in touch with his, his sons
that still have their, theirstore, Mountain Sports and always
cherished my time with Bob andhe has this great cabin right on
the Holston and it's just goodmemories being able to finish the
day and then go and stay inthere that night and hanging out
(04:57):
and then headed back home so Icould pack again to go to the. On
another trip which Was down inNorth Carolina near the coast, doing
a little bit of fishing andgot back from there and I think I
went. I can't remember where Iwent, but I ended up going back down
(05:17):
to the coastal North Carolinato one of my favorite places in the
world, Cape Lookout, and gotto spend time down there. Always
try to do that every year.It's one of. One of my favorite places
in the world, anywhere I'vetraveled. And then just back on the
road again doing more seminarsand stuff. But it's kind of the same
thing on that, that front. Andthen trying to manage the fly company
(05:41):
and, and all that and gearingup for the fall and hitting the road
again doing more seminars andstuff in Indianapolis, moving waters
and then going up to theDakotas and gonna do a. Another fly
time event and presentation upat Dakota Angler. I'm looking forward
(06:02):
to that and then go and spendsome time with my buddies and doing
some pike fishing. So I'mlooking forward to that. But more
than anything, just, you know,just keeping the train on the tracks
like always. Yeah, it'sdefinitely no grass growing under
my feet, that's for sure.
Yeah, it's a, it's a faster,sleeker struggle bus, right?
It is. Yep, yep. Yeah, I thinkwe've moved forward a little bit.
(06:25):
It's been, it's been a reallygood. It's going to be an unbelievable
second half of the year withmy, my fly company. God's really
blessed me and I, I can't waitto share that with you all here coming
up. So.
Yeah, and so, you know, it'sfunny, right? So, you know, for kind
of warm water folks, forthinking about smallmouth, you've
got a bunch of. We'll just saythey're not exclusively smallmouth
(06:46):
patterns, but you've got, Idon't know, a half a dozen new patterns
coming out of the chocolatefactory pretty soon.
Yeah, we do. As a lot ofpeople know, we came out with the,
you know, the fly tie insideof the chocolate factory. And so
all my silly skins and locofoams and we've got new regular foam
(07:07):
stuff that we're coming out.I've been searching for months and
finding best foams for, forfly tying and we've got that coming
and more body parts. And I'vegot so many things coming here in
the next couple months and I'mreally looking forward to fly tying
season because we're going tobe launching all that stuff in September.
(07:29):
More of the brush stufffinally be more readily available.
More body parts and andwhatnot, like for crabs and shrimp.
And of course we have thecrawl changer parts and the Helgamite
changer parts and we foundsome cool colors and we'll be able
to match a hatch a little bitbetter on some of those. And I'm
(07:50):
super excited about some ofthe, the 3D printed stuff that we're
doing and can't wait to sharethat with the world here coming up.
But we figured we'd wait tillthe fall to get that out because
we have a lot of new fliesthat are going to be hitting the
market. Not new to me, butit'll be new to the market, which
I'm super excited about. Wejust got a new factory online so
(08:11):
we're going to be able toproduce probably 10 times more than
we've ever done. So we'regoing to be able to have more, more
of our standard flies going,but we're going to have all the new
stuff. So we had to expand andwe, we bit that bullet. So, you know,
with, between traveling thisyear, from basically December till
(08:33):
now, I've been sourcing outand working with this, this new tie
in basically the new chocolatefactory or the second chocolate factory
and training them and workingwith a consultant over there and,
and getting all that stuffgoing. And we finally, after having
several iterations of samplescoming back and forth, they're finally
(08:56):
to, as you know, I'm not goingto settle. They're going to be what
I want my customers whenthey're fishing with me. I want people
that buy my flies to be ableto experience the flies that my customers
fish with me on the boat.
Right.
So we've got those online. Soyou know, the helger mites are going
to be coming up on the warmwater front. The crawl changers are
(09:17):
coming. The um, they're beingtied right now. So we have thousands
of flies that will be hittinghere in the next couple weeks. Like
literally the next week to twoweeks we're going to have those flies
coming. The newer buggerchangers we've got coming, which
are great crossover flies foreverything from fresh salt cold to
(09:38):
warm water. And the crawls aretoo. I mean the crawls have fistos
all over the planet and caughtseveral different species of, of
saltwater fish as well as warmwater species. So it's not, it's
not all, you know, it's almosta one fly does all. I mean you can
imitate shrimp, you canimitate crust, any type of crustacean
(10:00):
with it really. And it's, it'sone of those things where I'm very
excited for that one to hitthe market because we have the body
parts that go with it, theright sink rates, the flies swim.
The way the claws work, it'salmost like a, a soft plastic. So
it's kind of got this paddletype of fleeing posture and then
(10:20):
it stands up in the water atrest and, and has that porpoising
swim that I love. Same withthe cr, the helgramites that, you
know, it's got a jiggingaction but it also has that realism.
But the way it's designed, theway it goes through the water has
that porpoising action muchlike a, an insect would or, you know,
so it looks like ahellgramite. Swims like a hellgramite.
(10:44):
Gonna be a hellgramite to thefish. So that one's, that one's gonna
be super cool. Finally, theleech changers are gonna be available
as well, which will crossover. We'll have several sizes from
real small to, you know,leeches that are about an inch long
to leeches that are 3 incheslong. And those are going to be great.
(11:06):
I know that's a big deal inthe, in the cold water fisheries
in the trout world, but it'salso great fly for warm water species
too. So that, that's anotherone that's, we've been trying to
get that one going and thenstaying on that cold water front,
the nymph changers, those arebeing tied right now. Got two different
(11:30):
samples waiting for the thirdsample to finally have them dialed
in. And once that's done,those will be ready to roll. And
we'll have those in severalsizes to mimic anything from stone
flies to isonicias to, youknow, any type of swimming nymphs
to even going to, into thesmaller mayflies. So we're going
(11:53):
to have all kinds of sizes forit. And as I wrote in Fly Fishermen
a couple years ago that, youknow, we, in the trout world there
hasn't been a lot of hugesteps forward in recent years, you
know, in my opinion. Sothey've kind of, kind of, it's kind
of hard to invent somethingnew there. But the one thing I've
(12:15):
always said and the way I dothings is that, you know, what's
the main thing is with fishand way they eat is it's realism,
you know, smashing a hatch.But two is it's the movement and,
and that's where the gamechanger platform came from. And the
one thing we've never had isthat realistic fly with a realistic
movement to it and being ableto put that, that changer platform
(12:38):
on a lot of these nymphs, it'sa big deal. And we'll, we'll offer
them in a jig version and, andin a regular nip version with just
a regular bead head. So we'regoing to tackle all that and I think
the results will speak forthemselves and they'll be available
here, like I said, in the nextmonth or so. All this stuff is. No,
(12:59):
I've been promising it, butsometimes things take a little bit
of time because I'm not goingto settle. And we've kind of got
to that point where it's, it'shappening and it's all happening
at once. It's like, you know,the fire hoses is full throttle right
now and we're just going to becoming out with new stuff and introducing
it to the market. And I thinkeveryone that's been a fan of the
(13:21):
Chocolate Factory and that'ssupporting us, I think they'll be
super happy with all the newstuff that we've got coming.
Yeah. And you got the mocktailchanger too, coming out soon. And
I know you really like thatfly because you really like to swim
on it.
I do. I mean, the mop that,that was in my book and you know,
it's. It basically for thosethat don't understand it, when you
(13:44):
add a little mop tail to theback of a game changer platform,
it's like adding another twoor three articulations. One, one,
the way that works is it addsweight in the back of the fly. But
also having that, that mop,which I know has been very popular
in the trout world andwhatnot. You know, the fact that
it does suck up water, it doeswhen you start that game changer
(14:05):
platform and the motion, itfinishes on that tail, right. And.
But it gives you an extracouple kicks and it has even more
swimming action in it. Youknow, burning it, stop and go fishing
it. However the fish need,need to react to it. It's got a slimmer
profile. And if in, you know,one thing I've been going through
with, with, you know, lookingat the conventional world and looking
(14:27):
at what realism and all thatstuff is, is one thing you see in
the conventional world is alot of those lures, whether it's
soft plastics or, or hardbaits, is they have a very slim profile
and this fly has that. So thecool thing about it, it's more, it's
slimmer, it can represent abait fish. It could be A snake, it
(14:48):
could be an eel, it could beanything. But the big thing is it's
got a lot of triggeringqualities. And we've talked about
that in the past. And that'swhat it's all about, you know, attracting
qualities. It's got, it's gotthe triggering qualities and it's
got, to me, it's, it's more durable.
Right.
And it's, it's a fly that Ithink is going to be very popular
(15:09):
in a lot of, a lot of people'sboxes. You know, when we came out
with the finesse changers,especially with the chocolate factory,
putting that realistic tail inthere, you get more of that tighter
swim and, and you get thatrealism of having that profile with
the real tail. But to me, youknow, it's hard to beat the feathers.
And then you put a mop onthere, you get that extra swimming
(15:32):
action, that slender profile.You're getting a little bit more
of that, like it's a littleeasier to eat. It looks super swimmy.
Looks good. So it's got thattriggering and attracting thing that
I really, really like and nottake, not taking anything away from
the regular finesses. But whenyou look at them, right, it's. You
gotta look at the water thatyou fish and how the fish reacting
(15:53):
to stuff. And for me, yougotta kind of change based on what
the fish want.
Right.
You know, super clear, lowwater, sometimes super realistic
is gonna be the key. Andsometimes something that's got more
movement and just has thatjust ir. Irresistible swimming action
is what I like.
Right.
(16:14):
So I like to make fish eatthat are kind of neutral or even
negative. And if you can get afly that's got all that stuff in
it, it's hard to go wrong on that.
Yeah. And if you weren't busyenough, you've got, you've got a
hook coming out with Eric's.And you were involved in the development
of a new TFO saltwater rodthat dropped within, I don't know,
the last week or two.
Right?
(16:34):
Yeah. The new moment rod thatbeen playing around with for past
six, eight months at least,probably longer. And I thought it
was kind of a, a good namethat they came out with with the
moment, because, you know,that's what fly fishing is all about,
is those moments on the water.And, you know, for me, I thought
(16:58):
that was a great name and Ireally like this rod. It's, it's,
it's, it's unique. And, youknow, we've talked about it privately
and got some articles comingout with fly Fishermen that's going
to highlight some of thisstuff. But we've, the moment has
been a very good, good luckcharm for me. You know, I've been
(17:20):
on a lot of trips earlier inthe season where I had some moments
like two record sized fish.I'm not a record. Even though I like
catching giant fish. I'venever been my record hunter, but
I've caught two record sizefish this year on that, on that series
of rods. And to me, man, youknow, that's a good, that's a good
(17:44):
sign. It's handled these giantfish and I'm talking big, as big
as the species I was targetingget can't tell you everything. Cause
that'll kind of ruin it forfly fishermen. But they're as big
as those species get. And thefact that I was using those prototypes
from TFO and they handledeverything perfectly, I'm super excited
(18:04):
about them and I thinkeverybody out there will, you know,
there's some, a little bit newtechnology in the way they're, they're
building the rods. You know,it's, it's really helped it, it's,
it's made them lighter, it'smade them faster, it's made them
more responsive and you know,you could, you could kind of go on
(18:25):
their website now. I thinkthey've let the cat out of the bag.
But you can read a little bitabout them. I think you'll, I think
people, they're looking for anew rod. I think that new, that rod
series is if not the best rodwe've ever come out with. I think
it is, it just kind of hitsall those points right. It does everything
you need it to do and it's,it's been great. I really enjoy it.
(18:47):
It's like I said, it's gotgood mojo and it's had great mojo
on all the trips I've been on.You know, like I said, catching two
record, two different species,record size is pretty special.
Very, very neat. Where does itsort of fit in the universe of the,
you know, TFO's othersaltwater rods? I mean what was it
designed specifically to do?
Well to, to be honest, it's,it's, it's going to be. It's more
(19:10):
of an updated version of therod that Flippin and I came worked
on for. I guess I don't knowhow long it's been now, but it's
probably been almost 10 years ago.
Right.
So a 2X, it's kind of anupdated version of that. And you
know, we've got some New stuffon it that makes it, like I said,
(19:32):
makes it faster than that rod.It's recovers better. You know, it's
for the, it's, you know, forme it's, it's kind of one of those
rods where, you know, you getthese super fast rods out there that's
not, not for everyone. I thinkthis rod kind of fits into that where
I think this rod, it kind ofkept the tradition of TFO where it's,
(19:54):
it's a rod that anybody canpick up and cast well, you know,
so they didn't get it toofast, but it's faster and it's got,
it's got more butt to it. Soit, it kind of falls into a lot of
the, the check the box stuff.
Right.
So some of this technology,you know, talking with Nick, we're
probably, when my ride comesup to be redone, we're going to use
(20:17):
a lot of this technology onthat. So we'll see, we'll see what
happens in the future. But nowthat, I mean, this rod is, is done
a lot of good things and ithandles big flies well, handles sinking
lines well, intermediatesfloating lines. It's accurate, like
I said, it's quick and itrecovers quickly and you can put
(20:38):
the heat on them and, and stopgiant fish. So I think, you know,
I'm still getting chance totry some of the different line sizes.
Right.
So. But so far so good withthem. I've really enjoyed them.
Very, very neat. So tell me alittle bit about the hook you've
got coming out with ax.
Yeah, so the, the Arex hooks,I've been working with Mo over there
(21:01):
at arecs and we've been tryingto get this hook thing going for
a while. And my whole concepton it is I don't want to give too
much away, but you know, we'vealways been working with, you know,
different hooks on the gamechanger platform to make them work
for what we're trying to do.And I told him that. And you know,
(21:22):
a lot of times, you know, thehook diameter's too thick and, and
the gap's not big enough andthey're not strong enough for this
or whatever or they're tooheavy, you know, so all those things
are problems when you'redesigning flies and you want them
for specific things and for myplatform and for any really the way
this thing's going to end up.And I got the latest samples on them
(21:44):
and I'm super excited aboutit. I'm going to be testing the strength
and stuff on it. And you know,I've sent, just sent some up to my
buddy Larry Dahlberg and he'sgot one of these professional hook
testing deals and, and he,he's going to give his input. I always
cherish what Dahlberg's got tosay and I'm super excited about it.
(22:08):
So we'll test, we'll test thislatest sample out. Tied some flies
on it, get it out there andsome big fish hopefully and put the
heat on them. And I'll share acouple of these hooks with some friends
across the country and letthem do some testing for me as well.
And hopefully within the nextmonth or two, I'll get to give them
the go ahead and we'll, we'llhave these, have these ready. You
(22:31):
know, and the cool thing aboutit is they're going to have the hook
gap that we want, the strengththat we want, the diameter that we
want for good penetrationwithout compromising strength. So
there's all these little, youknow, check this box off, Check this
box off. And I'm wanting totreat it just like I do my flies.
(22:54):
So, you know, we're, we'reworking on that, but I'm not, we're
not going to let it go untilI'm satisfied. And that's why we're
going to be, you know,research and development, get it
out there. I'll be going downto the bay here in the next, next
month or so, in between worktrips or seminar trips and testing
them on cobia, doing sometarpon stuff, doing some giant red
(23:16):
fishing and, and whatnot. Sowe're gonna put it to the test and
see how they do and max outsome drags and fly lines and rods
and try to, try to break thehook, see what happens. And so that's
part of the process, right? Soyou, you might get the, you might
get the gap size you want, youmight get the length of the shank
(23:36):
that you want and you get thediameters of the. But they may not
all three together, right? Sothat's part of that process. And
coming out with the gamechanger hooks with, with arcs is
going to be amazing, I think.I mean it's, it's cool to have a
hook under your name. Andworking with bows, I think is an
amazing person. And the wholeteam over at a Rex, they're great
(23:59):
people and reliable and honestand that's what it's all about. And
that's what I've always wantedto be with. Teaming up with all these
great companies I work withand sponsor me and help me out through
these years. And it's, it'sall about that. Creating relationships,
trust, more family oriented.
(24:19):
Right.
And like minded. So this hookis going to be great. It's going
to be unique because thebiggest problem in fly tying is I
have this concept with it andI don't want to give too much away.
But one of the biggestproblems, very similar to way fly
lines and rods work. I mean noline is equal depending on manufacturer
(24:42):
and stuff. And you know, one,a one ought hook from each company
is not equal.
Right.
So if you have a one out hookfor a fly, it may not be the same
for X brand as this, thisbrand. And for me, the way we're
going to try to attack that isput it more like shank length and
shank gap, right. From, fromthe point of the hook to the, to
(25:03):
the, to the, to where theshank, the top of the shank and,
and be able to have them inmillimeters so people understand
what they're buying. And forme I put it in the system with the
game changer platform. But theway the hooks look and the way the
platform just being a tire mywhole life and knowing Bobby Popovics
(25:25):
and Lefty and Pler andDahlberg and all these guys and knowing
what fits on a hook anddifferent, you know, every hook's
not equal.
Right.
And the other way this isgoing to work is we're going to sell
them in millimeters. Likeexample, like if you're using a 15
millimeter shank, we'll have ahook that's going to be equal to
(25:45):
that with the right gap forthe right materials that you're putting
on it kind of a deal. So.Well, that'll be explained when you
go to buy the hook. Instead ofseeing 1 alt, 2 alt, 3 alt, size
1, whatever, it's going to bethis, this shank millimeter and this
gap millimeter.
Right.
So it'll be a lot more easierfor people to understand and know
(26:07):
what they want and all thatfor this, for the style fly. Even
if they don't have them inthe, in the shops that near them
and if they're orderingonline, it's going to make it easier
for them to decide what, whathook's going to work for the fly
that they're using. Whetherit's a game changer or a deceiver
or, or beast fly or whatever.
Right.
So that in short, not givingit too much away, but I don't want
(26:31):
to let that cat out of thebag. But I'm super excited about
it and I know Mo is and, andthe whole AX team and I think the,
the shops that I've told andtalked to about it, they're excited
about it as well. And it'sjust going to be. Make the, the whole
tying platform better andeasier for. For all of us.
Well, very, very cool. Soyou've been slightly busy. If folks
(26:53):
want to keep track of, youknow, your, your adventures on the
road at the Vice Chocolatefactory, all that kind of good stuff.
Where should they go?
They can hit me up onInstagram, message me there, can
always email me. We're goingto have a new email address and got
a new website we're workingon. But right now you can just email.
(27:15):
Email me@BCHocolatecomcast.netor hit me up on Instagram or Facebook
or whatever at this point. Andplain chocolate fishing, you can
get reached me there. Youcould always reach out on our, our,
our website that we have rightnow. So those are kind of the ways.
And you can send smokesignals, whatever you want. So.
(27:39):
Well, there you go. Well, I,you know, we both were doing the
family thing over the fourth,so we didn't get to up, but hopefully
our paths will cross. MaybeLabor Day. I'll be back in the Old
Dominion.
Yep. Hope to see you catch upand maybe grill something.
Yeah, there you go. We'll dothe reverse sear on the Traeger.
Right? There you go.
Yeah. So folks, as I say, thistime of year, first of all, stay
(28:01):
cool. But you owe it toyourself to get out there and catch
a few tight lines, everybody.Tight lines. Blaine.
Thanks. You too.
Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash,the host of the articulate fly. We're
back with another chocolatefactory with the man himself, Blaine
Chocolate. Blaine, how are you?
I'm good man. How are you doing?
Just trying to stay out oftrouble and stay cool. I imagine
it's about the same up in yourneck of the woods.
Yeah, it's been hot, no doubtabout it.
Glad to not be on the waterI'm sure.
Yeah. Past few days here hasbeen pretty brutal and storms constantly
(00:28):
so definitely not missingdodging those storms every day.
Yeah. Trying to figure outlike where you're not going to get
pelted by hail while you're onthe side of the river.
Right?
Yep. Electrocuted. All thatgood stuff. Waving the fly rod in
there. It's good. That's agood idea. Yeah.
So you know, it's been aminute. I think we probably caught
up, I don't know, a few weeks,maybe a month on the other side of
(00:49):
ty fest. But you've beenpretty darn busy on the product front,
travel front and all kinds ofgood stuff.
Yeah. Yep. I've pretty muchbeen on the road since mid, mid May.
Really Since February I think.Last time I spoke with you I was
heading up to TCO up inBoiling Springs and up at State College.
(01:12):
Did some tying events thereand got to see the team both at both
stores and got to see a lot ofpeople I hadn't seen in a long time
and shared everything gamechanger and taught to people how
to tie the jerk Changers andthe crawl Changers and it was a great
(01:33):
event. It was a super goodtime and after I left that I had
a another event down inTennessee with John down at Tail
Waters right, right there onthe Holston and it's got a great
shop. So anybody any inTennessee that around that area are
going to fish Olson or Wataga,they gotta stop by his shop. He's
(01:56):
got an unbelievable fly tieand basically shop. I mean it's.
He's got a really nice flytying area and he's doing it differently.
Right.
And I, I really like thatthinking outside the box. And he's
got a great coffee shop rightnext door and a really cool micro
brewery and restaurant on theother side of him and you could go
(02:19):
hang out, have a coffee or goget some tie and stuff or flies or
whatever and then go next doorand have a beer and eat some good
food maybe see if there's anyhatches going on on the ol. So I
was impressed with that shot.It Was nice.
Yeah, he's doing a really goodjob. And if you don't want to fly
fish, they got the bait shopnext door too.
Yep, yep. So we had a goodevent there. We had a private tying
(02:44):
clinic for about four or fivehours and I saw some clients that
I had not seen in probably 20some years. And that was really cool
catching up with those guys.And actually when I say clients,
a lot of them were people I'veguided in the past, but several of
them were just people thatbusiness people that came that would
(03:08):
come in my fly shop back whenI had a fly shop and were talking,
you know, mid-90s now, youknow, since I saw some of those people
and you know, it was goodcatching up with them. It's good
to see that they're, they'restill in the fly fishing game and
now currently retired andgetting to fish more and catching
up with those people wasgreat, you know, and I was very appreciative
(03:31):
for them to sign up for my, myclass and you know, show them what
I've been doing over the past20 plus years since I've seen him.
You know, it was good. Andthen meeting new people. So John
had, he had a really goodturnout, really enjoyed that. And
then after that we went over,had lunch over at the Grill Slash
(03:52):
Microbrewery and a lot of theguides after they got off the water
came up. Guides I hadn't seenin years because I used to guide
down in Tennessee a lot. So Ihaven't been down there much and
got to see quite a few peopleI hadn't seen in a while and just
catching up with them and youknow, I'd be. It's kind of funny
(04:12):
playing around with them alittle bit, just talking about spots
on. In places that a lot ofpeople wouldn't know. They're like,
well, how do you know aboutthat? I'm like, well, I used to got
here man, 20, 30 years ago. Soit was just kind of fun doing that
stuff. And then got to go tostay at my good buddy Bob. Cheers.
Had a shop in Bristol whopassed away a few years ago. Was
(04:36):
a great client and friend andstay in touch with his, his sons
that still have their, theirstore, Mountain Sports and always
cherished my time with Bob andhe has this great cabin right on
the Holston and it's just goodmemories being able to finish the
day and then go and stay inthere that night and hanging out
(04:57):
and then headed back home so Icould pack again to go to the. On
another trip which Was down inNorth Carolina near the coast, doing
a little bit of fishing andgot back from there and I think I
went. I can't remember where Iwent, but I ended up going back down
(05:17):
to the coastal North Carolinato one of my favorite places in the
world, Cape Lookout, and gotto spend time down there. Always
try to do that every year.It's one of. One of my favorite places
in the world, anywhere I'vetraveled. And then just back on the
road again doing more seminarsand stuff. But it's kind of the same
thing on that, that front. Andthen trying to manage the fly company
(05:41):
and, and all that and gearingup for the fall and hitting the road
again doing more seminars andstuff in Indianapolis, moving waters
and then going up to theDakotas and gonna do a. Another fly
time event and presentation upat Dakota Angler. I'm looking forward
(06:02):
to that and then go and spendsome time with my buddies and doing
some pike fishing. So I'mlooking forward to that. But more
than anything, just, you know,just keeping the train on the tracks
like always. Yeah, it'sdefinitely no grass growing under
my feet, that's for sure.
Yeah, it's a, it's a faster,sleeker struggle bus, right?
It is. Yep, yep. Yeah, I thinkwe've moved forward a little bit.
(06:25):
It's been, it's been a reallygood. It's going to be an unbelievable
second half of the year withmy, my fly company. God's really
blessed me and I, I can't waitto share that with you all here coming
up. So.
Yeah, and so, you know, it'sfunny, right? So, you know, for kind
of warm water folks, forthinking about smallmouth, you've
got a bunch of. We'll just saythey're not exclusively smallmouth
(06:46):
patterns, but you've got, Idon't know, a half a dozen new patterns
coming out of the chocolatefactory pretty soon.
Yeah, we do. As a lot ofpeople know, we came out with the,
you know, the fly tie insideof the chocolate factory. And so
all my silly skins and locofoams and we've got new regular foam
(07:07):
stuff that we're coming out.I've been searching for months and
finding best foams for, forfly tying and we've got that coming
and more body parts. And I'vegot so many things coming here in
the next couple months and I'mreally looking forward to fly tying
season because we're going tobe launching all that stuff in September.
(07:29):
More of the brush stufffinally be more readily available.
More body parts and andwhatnot, like for crabs and shrimp.
And of course we have thecrawl changer parts and the Helgamite
changer parts and we foundsome cool colors and we'll be able
to match a hatch a little bitbetter on some of those. And I'm
(07:50):
super excited about some ofthe, the 3D printed stuff that we're
doing and can't wait to sharethat with the world here coming up.
But we figured we'd wait tillthe fall to get that out because
we have a lot of new fliesthat are going to be hitting the
market. Not new to me, butit'll be new to the market, which
I'm super excited about. Wejust got a new factory online so
(08:11):
we're going to be able toproduce probably 10 times more than
we've ever done. So we'regoing to be able to have more, more
of our standard flies going,but we're going to have all the new
stuff. So we had to expand andwe, we bit that bullet. So, you know,
with, between traveling thisyear, from basically December till
(08:33):
now, I've been sourcing outand working with this, this new tie
in basically the new chocolatefactory or the second chocolate factory
and training them and workingwith a consultant over there and,
and getting all that stuffgoing. And we finally, after having
several iterations of samplescoming back and forth, they're finally
(08:56):
to, as you know, I'm not goingto settle. They're going to be what
I want my customers whenthey're fishing with me. I want people
that buy my flies to be ableto experience the flies that my customers
fish with me on the boat.
Right.
So we've got those online. Soyou know, the helger mites are going
to be coming up on the warmwater front. The crawl changers are
(09:17):
coming. The um, they're beingtied right now. So we have thousands
of flies that will be hittinghere in the next couple weeks. Like
literally the next week to twoweeks we're going to have those flies
coming. The newer buggerchangers we've got coming, which
are great crossover flies foreverything from fresh salt cold to
(09:38):
warm water. And the crawls aretoo. I mean the crawls have fistos
all over the planet and caughtseveral different species of, of
saltwater fish as well as warmwater species. So it's not, it's
not all, you know, it's almosta one fly does all. I mean you can
imitate shrimp, you canimitate crust, any type of crustacean
(10:00):
with it really. And it's, it'sone of those things where I'm very
excited for that one to hitthe market because we have the body
parts that go with it, theright sink rates, the flies swim.
The way the claws work, it'salmost like a, a soft plastic. So
it's kind of got this paddletype of fleeing posture and then
(10:20):
it stands up in the water atrest and, and has that porpoising
swim that I love. Same withthe cr, the helgramites that, you
know, it's got a jiggingaction but it also has that realism.
But the way it's designed, theway it goes through the water has
that porpoising action muchlike a, an insect would or, you know,
so it looks like ahellgramite. Swims like a hellgramite.
(10:44):
Gonna be a hellgramite to thefish. So that one's, that one's gonna
be super cool. Finally, theleech changers are gonna be available
as well, which will crossover. We'll have several sizes from
real small to, you know,leeches that are about an inch long
to leeches that are 3 incheslong. And those are going to be great.
(11:06):
I know that's a big deal inthe, in the cold water fisheries
in the trout world, but it'salso great fly for warm water species
too. So that, that's anotherone that's, we've been trying to
get that one going and thenstaying on that cold water front,
the nymph changers, those arebeing tied right now. Got two different
(11:30):
samples waiting for the thirdsample to finally have them dialed
in. And once that's done,those will be ready to roll. And
we'll have those in severalsizes to mimic anything from stone
flies to isonicias to, youknow, any type of swimming nymphs
to even going to, into thesmaller mayflies. So we're going
(11:53):
to have all kinds of sizes forit. And as I wrote in Fly Fishermen
a couple years ago that, youknow, we, in the trout world there
hasn't been a lot of hugesteps forward in recent years, you
know, in my opinion. Sothey've kind of, kind of, it's kind
of hard to invent somethingnew there. But the one thing I've
(12:15):
always said and the way I dothings is that, you know, what's
the main thing is with fishand way they eat is it's realism,
you know, smashing a hatch.But two is it's the movement and,
and that's where the gamechanger platform came from. And the
one thing we've never had isthat realistic fly with a realistic
movement to it and being ableto put that, that changer platform
(12:38):
on a lot of these nymphs, it'sa big deal. And we'll, we'll offer
them in a jig version and, andin a regular nip version with just
a regular bead head. So we'regoing to tackle all that and I think
the results will speak forthemselves and they'll be available
here, like I said, in the nextmonth or so. All this stuff is. No,
(12:59):
I've been promising it, butsometimes things take a little bit
of time because I'm not goingto settle. And we've kind of got
to that point where it's, it'shappening and it's all happening
at once. It's like, you know,the fire hoses is full throttle right
now and we're just going to becoming out with new stuff and introducing
it to the market. And I thinkeveryone that's been a fan of the
(13:21):
Chocolate Factory and that'ssupporting us, I think they'll be
super happy with all the newstuff that we've got coming.
Yeah. And you got the mocktailchanger too, coming out soon. And
I know you really like thatfly because you really like to swim
on it.
I do. I mean, the mop that,that was in my book and you know,
it's. It basically for thosethat don't understand it, when you
(13:44):
add a little mop tail to theback of a game changer platform,
it's like adding another twoor three articulations. One, one,
the way that works is it addsweight in the back of the fly. But
also having that, that mop,which I know has been very popular
in the trout world andwhatnot. You know, the fact that
it does suck up water, it doeswhen you start that game changer
(14:05):
platform and the motion, itfinishes on that tail, right. And.
But it gives you an extracouple kicks and it has even more
swimming action in it. Youknow, burning it, stop and go fishing
it. However the fish need,need to react to it. It's got a slimmer
profile. And if in, you know,one thing I've been going through
with, with, you know, lookingat the conventional world and looking
(14:27):
at what realism and all thatstuff is, is one thing you see in
the conventional world is alot of those lures, whether it's
soft plastics or, or hardbaits, is they have a very slim profile
and this fly has that. So thecool thing about it, it's more, it's
slimmer, it can represent abait fish. It could be A snake, it
(14:48):
could be an eel, it could beanything. But the big thing is it's
got a lot of triggeringqualities. And we've talked about
that in the past. And that'swhat it's all about, you know, attracting
qualities. It's got, it's gotthe triggering qualities and it's
got, to me, it's, it's more durable.
Right.
And it's, it's a fly that Ithink is going to be very popular
(15:09):
in a lot of, a lot of people'sboxes. You know, when we came out
with the finesse changers,especially with the chocolate factory,
putting that realistic tail inthere, you get more of that tighter
swim and, and you get thatrealism of having that profile with
the real tail. But to me, youknow, it's hard to beat the feathers.
And then you put a mop onthere, you get that extra swimming
(15:32):
action, that slender profile.You're getting a little bit more
of that, like it's a littleeasier to eat. It looks super swimmy.
Looks good. So it's got thattriggering and attracting thing that
I really, really like and nottake, not taking anything away from
the regular finesses. But whenyou look at them, right, it's. You
gotta look at the water thatyou fish and how the fish reacting
(15:53):
to stuff. And for me, yougotta kind of change based on what
the fish want.
Right.
You know, super clear, lowwater, sometimes super realistic
is gonna be the key. Andsometimes something that's got more
movement and just has thatjust ir. Irresistible swimming action
is what I like.
Right.
(16:14):
So I like to make fish eatthat are kind of neutral or even
negative. And if you can get afly that's got all that stuff in
it, it's hard to go wrong on that.
Yeah. And if you weren't busyenough, you've got, you've got a
hook coming out with Eric's.And you were involved in the development
of a new TFO saltwater rodthat dropped within, I don't know,
the last week or two.
Right?
(16:34):
Yeah. The new moment rod thatbeen playing around with for past
six, eight months at least,probably longer. And I thought it
was kind of a, a good namethat they came out with with the
moment, because, you know,that's what fly fishing is all about,
is those moments on the water.And, you know, for me, I thought
(16:58):
that was a great name and Ireally like this rod. It's, it's,
it's, it's unique. And, youknow, we've talked about it privately
and got some articles comingout with fly Fishermen that's going
to highlight some of thisstuff. But we've, the moment has
been a very good, good luckcharm for me. You know, I've been
(17:20):
on a lot of trips earlier inthe season where I had some moments
like two record sized fish.I'm not a record. Even though I like
catching giant fish. I'venever been my record hunter, but
I've caught two record sizefish this year on that, on that series
of rods. And to me, man, youknow, that's a good, that's a good
(17:44):
sign. It's handled these giantfish and I'm talking big, as big
as the species I was targetingget can't tell you everything. Cause
that'll kind of ruin it forfly fishermen. But they're as big
as those species get. And thefact that I was using those prototypes
from TFO and they handledeverything perfectly, I'm super excited
(18:04):
about them and I thinkeverybody out there will, you know,
there's some, a little bit newtechnology in the way they're, they're
building the rods. You know,it's, it's really helped it, it's,
it's made them lighter, it'smade them faster, it's made them
more responsive and you know,you could, you could kind of go on
(18:25):
their website now. I thinkthey've let the cat out of the bag.
But you can read a little bitabout them. I think you'll, I think
people, they're looking for anew rod. I think that new, that rod
series is if not the best rodwe've ever come out with. I think
it is, it just kind of hitsall those points right. It does everything
you need it to do and it's,it's been great. I really enjoy it.
(18:47):
It's like I said, it's gotgood mojo and it's had great mojo
on all the trips I've been on.You know, like I said, catching two
record, two different species,record size is pretty special.
Very, very neat. Where does itsort of fit in the universe of the,
you know, TFO's othersaltwater rods? I mean what was it
designed specifically to do?
Well to, to be honest, it's,it's, it's going to be. It's more
(19:10):
of an updated version of therod that Flippin and I came worked
on for. I guess I don't knowhow long it's been now, but it's
probably been almost 10 years ago.
Right.
So a 2X, it's kind of anupdated version of that. And you
know, we've got some New stuffon it that makes it, like I said,
(19:32):
makes it faster than that rod.It's recovers better. You know, it's
for the, it's, you know, forme it's, it's kind of one of those
rods where, you know, you getthese super fast rods out there that's
not, not for everyone. I thinkthis rod kind of fits into that where
I think this rod, it kind ofkept the tradition of TFO where it's,
(19:54):
it's a rod that anybody canpick up and cast well, you know,
so they didn't get it toofast, but it's faster and it's got,
it's got more butt to it. Soit, it kind of falls into a lot of
the, the check the box stuff.
Right.
So some of this technology,you know, talking with Nick, we're
probably, when my ride comesup to be redone, we're going to use
(20:17):
a lot of this technology onthat. So we'll see, we'll see what
happens in the future. But nowthat, I mean, this rod is, is done
a lot of good things and ithandles big flies well, handles sinking
lines well, intermediatesfloating lines. It's accurate, like
I said, it's quick and itrecovers quickly and you can put
(20:38):
the heat on them and, and stopgiant fish. So I think, you know,
I'm still getting chance totry some of the different line sizes.
Right.
So. But so far so good withthem. I've really enjoyed them.
Very, very neat. So tell me alittle bit about the hook you've
got coming out with ax.
Yeah, so the, the Arex hooks,I've been working with Mo over there
(21:01):
at arecs and we've been tryingto get this hook thing going for
a while. And my whole concepton it is I don't want to give too
much away, but you know, we'vealways been working with, you know,
different hooks on the gamechanger platform to make them work
for what we're trying to do.And I told him that. And you know,
(21:22):
a lot of times, you know, thehook diameter's too thick and, and
the gap's not big enough andthey're not strong enough for this
or whatever or they're tooheavy, you know, so all those things
are problems when you'redesigning flies and you want them
for specific things and for myplatform and for any really the way
this thing's going to end up.And I got the latest samples on them
(21:44):
and I'm super excited aboutit. I'm going to be testing the strength
and stuff on it. And you know,I've sent, just sent some up to my
buddy Larry Dahlberg and he'sgot one of these professional hook
testing deals and, and he,he's going to give his input. I always
cherish what Dahlberg's got tosay and I'm super excited about it.
(22:08):
So we'll test, we'll test thislatest sample out. Tied some flies
on it, get it out there andsome big fish hopefully and put the
heat on them. And I'll share acouple of these hooks with some friends
across the country and letthem do some testing for me as well.
And hopefully within the nextmonth or two, I'll get to give them
the go ahead and we'll, we'llhave these, have these ready. You
(22:31):
know, and the cool thing aboutit is they're going to have the hook
gap that we want, the strengththat we want, the diameter that we
want for good penetrationwithout compromising strength. So
there's all these little, youknow, check this box off, Check this
box off. And I'm wanting totreat it just like I do my flies.
(22:54):
So, you know, we're, we'reworking on that, but I'm not, we're
not going to let it go untilI'm satisfied. And that's why we're
going to be, you know,research and development, get it
out there. I'll be going downto the bay here in the next, next
month or so, in between worktrips or seminar trips and testing
them on cobia, doing sometarpon stuff, doing some giant red
(23:16):
fishing and, and whatnot. Sowe're gonna put it to the test and
see how they do and max outsome drags and fly lines and rods
and try to, try to break thehook, see what happens. And so that's
part of the process, right? Soyou, you might get the, you might
get the gap size you want, youmight get the length of the shank
(23:36):
that you want and you get thediameters of the. But they may not
all three together, right? Sothat's part of that process. And
coming out with the gamechanger hooks with, with arcs is
going to be amazing, I think.I mean it's, it's cool to have a
hook under your name. Andworking with bows, I think is an
amazing person. And the wholeteam over at a Rex, they're great
(23:59):
people and reliable and honestand that's what it's all about. And
that's what I've always wantedto be with. Teaming up with all these
great companies I work withand sponsor me and help me out through
these years. And it's, it'sall about that. Creating relationships,
trust, more family oriented.
(24:19):
Right.
And like minded. So this hookis going to be great. It's going
to be unique because thebiggest problem in fly tying is I
have this concept with it andI don't want to give too much away.
But one of the biggestproblems, very similar to way fly
lines and rods work. I mean noline is equal depending on manufacturer
(24:42):
and stuff. And you know, one,a one ought hook from each company
is not equal.
Right.
So if you have a one out hookfor a fly, it may not be the same
for X brand as this, thisbrand. And for me, the way we're
going to try to attack that isput it more like shank length and
shank gap, right. From, fromthe point of the hook to the, to
(25:03):
the, to the, to where theshank, the top of the shank and,
and be able to have them inmillimeters so people understand
what they're buying. And forme I put it in the system with the
game changer platform. But theway the hooks look and the way the
platform just being a tire mywhole life and knowing Bobby Popovics
(25:25):
and Lefty and Pler andDahlberg and all these guys and knowing
what fits on a hook anddifferent, you know, every hook's
not equal.
Right.
And the other way this isgoing to work is we're going to sell
them in millimeters. Likeexample, like if you're using a 15
millimeter shank, we'll have ahook that's going to be equal to
(25:45):
that with the right gap forthe right materials that you're putting
on it kind of a deal. So.Well, that'll be explained when you
go to buy the hook. Instead ofseeing 1 alt, 2 alt, 3 alt, size
1, whatever, it's going to bethis, this shank millimeter and this
gap millimeter.
Right.
So it'll be a lot more easierfor people to understand and know
(26:07):
what they want and all thatfor this, for the style fly. Even
if they don't have them inthe, in the shops that near them
and if they're orderingonline, it's going to make it easier
for them to decide what, whathook's going to work for the fly
that they're using. Whetherit's a game changer or a deceiver
or, or beast fly or whatever.
Right.
So that in short, not givingit too much away, but I don't want
(26:31):
to let that cat out of thebag. But I'm super excited about
it and I know Mo is and, andthe whole AX team and I think the,
the shops that I've told andtalked to about it, they're excited
about it as well. And it'sjust going to be. Make the, the whole
tying platform better andeasier for. For all of us.
Well, very, very cool. Soyou've been slightly busy. If folks
(26:53):
want to keep track of, youknow, your, your adventures on the
road at the Vice Chocolatefactory, all that kind of good stuff.
Where should they go?
They can hit me up onInstagram, message me there, can
always email me. We're goingto have a new email address and got
a new website we're workingon. But right now you can just email.
(27:15):
Email me@BCHocolatecomcast.netor hit me up on Instagram or Facebook
or whatever at this point. Andplain chocolate fishing, you can
get reached me there. Youcould always reach out on our, our,
our website that we have rightnow. So those are kind of the ways.
And you can send smokesignals, whatever you want. So.
(27:39):
Well, there you go. Well, I,you know, we both were doing the
family thing over the fourth,so we didn't get to up, but hopefully
our paths will cross. MaybeLabor Day. I'll be back in the Old
Dominion.
Yep. Hope to see you catch upand maybe grill something.
Yeah, there you go. We'll dothe reverse sear on the Traeger.
Right? There you go.
Yeah. So folks, as I say, thistime of year, first of all, stay
(28:01):
cool. But you owe it toyourself to get out there and catch
a few tight lines, everybody.Tight lines. Blaine.
Thanks. You too.
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