August 19, 2025 • 14 mins
The Articulate Fly podcast delivers essential Southwest Virginia fishing intelligence with guide Matt Reilly, who breaks down the critical decision-making process every angler faces when conditions refuse to cooperate.
Reilly, an expert smallmouth fishing guide with years of regional experience, reveals how flash floods and yo-yo water levels have made this one of the most challenging topwater seasons in recent memory.
Learn his systematic approach to reading stream flow data, water clarity and temperature to make split-second location decisions that save your fishing day.
Discover when to abandon your primary topwater game plan and pivot to productive streamer fishing tactics in dirty water conditions.
Reilly shares specific strategies for choosing water with varied structure when visibility drops, explaining how runs, shoals and ledge systems concentrate fish when flats become unfishable.
Most importantly, master the art of managing client expectations while maintaining fishing success through honest pre-trip communication and flexible tactical approaches.
Whether you're guiding clients or planning your own Southwest Virginia smallmouth adventures, these real-world insights from challenging 2025 conditions will transform your decision-making process.
To learn more about Matt, check out our full length interview.
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S6, Ep 41 - Smallmouth Secrets and Streamer Savvy with Brendan Ruch
S7, Ep 32 - Swim Flies and Trout Tactics: An East Tennessee Fishing Report with Ellis Ward
S7, Ep 1 - Winter Fly Tying and Pre-Spawn Tips with Matt Reilly
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Hey, folks, it's Marvin Cash,the host of the Articulate Fly. We're
back with another southwestVirginia fishing report with Matt
Reilly. Matt, how are you?
I'm doing good, man. How are you?
I'm just trying to dry out.We've been getting soaked down here
in the Piedmont of North Carolina.
Yeah, yeah, that's been kindof the, the story of the summer here.
It's been, you know, I'vereally only been smallmouth fishing
(00:27):
since about, maybe for about amonth with cicadas and vacations
and stuff like that. But, youknow, I don't know how many flash
floods we've had in thewatershed in the last month, but
it's more than, more thanfive. And it's, it's just, just now
(00:49):
starting to kind of dry out alittle bit. But, you know, we've
still got some threats ofsome, you know, we've had tropical
storms knocking around andhistorically we're rapidly approaching
what could be the firsthurricane of the season. So I'm hoping
that we stay kind of in thispattern that we're in right now.
(01:10):
We're getting, you know, somereasonable rain every four or five
days or something like that.But honestly, not holding my breath
too hard.
Yeah. So obviously the funkyweather conditions have made it incredibly
difficult to pattern things,which kind of dovetailed well with
(01:31):
a question from Elijah, whoguides down in this part of the world
for trout and smallmouth. Justkind of on a day to day basis. You've
done your homework, yourstretches of water, but how do you
make that decision about whereto pull the trigger for tomorrow?
Yeah, man, if you could, ifyou could, if you could answer that,
(01:52):
if there was a concreteanswer, you'd, you'd be, you'd be
pretty well off, I think. Butyeah, like you said, I mean, a lot
of it, you do have to havethat, that groundwork of knowing,
you know, what your, what yourdifferent stretches of river look
like, how they fish at dirtand different, you know, water levels
at, at the, you know, at thistime of year, what it's likely going
(02:18):
to mean, you know, that numberon a stream flow gauge in terms of
clarity. And you know,sometimes water temperatures can
change if you're fishingtailwater systems. And you know,
if you've got a firmunderstanding of all those details,
it, you know, the way, the wayI look at it is I, I'm always, I've
(02:41):
got an idea of what I want todo per the season. So, I mean, this
time of year I'm happiest andI Feel like we're doing our best
and putting our best footforward if we can be, you know, fishing
smallmouth on top water.That's what everybody wants to do.
Catch some really big fishthat way. But, you know, it. Sometimes,
(03:05):
sometimes you can. If you havea bunch of different options, you
can find those situationswhere you've had, you know, dropping,
clearing or, you know, lowclear water for, you know, a couple
of days and the watertemperatures are right and, and take
advantage of it, but you can'talways. And I would say that's one
(03:26):
thing that you definitely haveto be careful of, just trying to
force something like that. Youknow, there, there are times when
I feel like that might be thebest move. You know, you find yourself
in a situation where, youknow, the, the presentation, the,
the tactic that you thinkmight work for big fish for the day
(03:50):
is not perfectly prime. But,you know, everybody in the boat's
willing to put their headsdown and, and commit to something.
You know, you can do that, butit doesn't always pan out. I mean,
this summer has been probablyone of the, probably one of the least
productive or, or worst topwater seasons, summer seasons that
(04:13):
I've had in the last sevenyears. And again, we're early August,
so there's still a lot tocome, but with yo yo and flows and
dirty water and cold frontsand all that stuff, it just, just
hasn't set up. And so if youkeep trying to chase that, probably
going to end up with a lot of,you know, kind of, kind of wasted,
(04:35):
wasted days. So the otherthing that I would say is just to
keep your mind open in termsof, in terms of game plans, you know,
and try to recognize otherpotential opportunities. We've had
a lot of days this year where,you know, cold fronts and rain have
raised the water level,dirtied it up, and those can be really
(05:00):
good streamer fishingconditions if the fish, you know,
especially if you have sort oflingering low pressure and, you know,
dark skies and, and that kindof thing, the fish have sort of linger
and aggressive attitude. Youcan take advantage of that. I've
had a couple of days like thatthis year. But yeah, I would say
(05:22):
not marrying yourself to anidea, I always, I always go to the
river with sort of a couple ofgame plans, usually mo no more than
two in my head based on what Isee, you know, in the data for the
day. And then, you know,you've got to give them a good audition,
(05:43):
but, you know, also not bescared to totally change gears and
be prepared for anything. Iwould Say, that's definitely been
the biggest sort of theme thisyear is just, you know, not leaving
anything at home that's,that's not seasonal because, you
know, we've been using a lotof springtime tactics with bigger
(06:04):
streamers and sinking linesand stuff this summer, a lot of bottom
fishing stuff. And, andthere's days too, you know, like
I said, I'm, I'm alwayslooking for big fish. I'm always
trying to, this time of yearfind good, you know, top water fishing.
But a lot of times it's justnot in the cards. And if you can,
(06:26):
you know, if you find yourselfrolling on a program where, you know,
you're able to put a number offish in the boat and that's a sort
of an okay compromise, youknow, don't be afraid to just kind
of lean into that either. Youknow, you just kind of have to let
the river tell you what's theway things are going to go and, and,
(06:46):
and take it. But yeah, so Iwould say if, if you've got the firm
foundation of just what allyour rivers, all your fisheries look
like in a variety ofconditions, the next biggest element
is just understanding a widearray of patterns. You know, when
(07:13):
the fish are going to beacting different ways and if you
don't see in the cards, kindof your first choice, start looking
for those other ones, startlooking for other opportunities.
And there have been a lot ofdays this year where, you know, talking
about having a lot of rain,there have been a lot of days where
(07:33):
I've sort of chased dirtywater because, you know, you're either
because streamer fishing canbe really good in dirty water for
smallmouth, but low, dirtywater can make things more challenging.
So there's some situationswhere, you know, know I would, I
(07:53):
would almost go to the bottomof the watershed looking for the
highest water possible if Iknow I'm going to have to deal with
a certain level of clarityjust to be able to play that game,
you know, lower water might bebetter for trying to do some top
water stuff. But you know, atthe end of the day, is it really
going to be all you want it tobe? Probably not. And so, you know,
(08:16):
go down, find some betterstreamer fishing conditions and roll
those dice, you know, sothat's, that's something that I've,
I've really had to do a lotthis year is sort of giving up on
my, on my primary, my hope,you know, what I'm, what I'm looking
for and just taking cues fromthe river and you Have a really good
(08:37):
day doing something that kindof surprises you. Just try to find
those conditions again thenext time you're out. And, you know,
don't, don't put all your,your eggs in one basket.
Yeah. And so when things arefunky, do you generally try to pick
floats that have more variedwater so you feel like you can hit
maybe 50 or 60% of something.Right, as opposed to.
(08:59):
That's a, that's a great pointtoo. Yeah. I mean, so one thing I've
run into a lot this summer is,you know, like I just mentioned,
kind of low to average flow,but dingy, dirty water, you know,
a couple feet of visibilitymaybe, and, and that can be kind
of tough, especially in yourkind of flatter water, deeper sections,
(09:21):
places where I might findbigger fish in the summertime, especially
when they're set up eating,eating bugs along the banks and,
and that kind of water can be,can be kind of tough to approach
in those situations. So havingsome, some good moving water to fish,
you know, runs, shoals,riffles, that kind of stuff can be
(09:46):
sort of a concentratingelement where, you know, all of a
sudden you're not having tosearch a flat where there's, you
know, it's cloudy, water'sdirty, not really running that swiftly,
so there's nothing to reallyput a fish anywhere in particular.
That's, that's a really toughscenario, you know, Whereas if you
can go fish a ledge systemwhere you've got seams and pockets
(10:10):
and, and, you know, realstructure, that's gonna sort of concentrate
fish, that, that can be a muchbetter, much better choice. So. Yeah,
that's, that's definitely anidea. You know, sometimes I might
just lean more into, you know,again, if I, if I know I'm gonna
be streamer fishing all day,then I, I might just look for a piece
(10:32):
of water that's gonna lenditself to that, you know, so, same
thing you do looking for, youknow, like I said, you know, top
water, kind of technical sightfishing situations like I like to
do in the summertime. A lot oftimes I'm going to look for floats
that have flats, that have bigfish that are going to have sun that
(10:56):
day. They're going to have suncoming from the right angle, the
right time. And it, it's thesame, the same muscle. You just gotta,
gotta use it in another way.
Yeah. And then it goes withoutsaying we always have to come back
to first principles likehaving a really honest, frank conversation,
you know, with the clients.Right. And the clients having an
honest conversation with youabout what they really wanna get
(11:18):
out of the day can make a bigdifference too.
Yep. Managing expectations,sort of. I like to approach folks
with a game plan the nightbefore if, if I can, if I. Especially
if I know it's going to besort of atypical. You know, most
of my clients I've fished withdozens of times, so they generally
(11:41):
know what to expect whenthey're showing up. But if it's going
to be something else, I liketo sort of brief them ahead of time.
And, you know, if, even if,even if you have a feeling like things
aren't going to be great, butwe have a good shot at, you know,
doing X, if we can do this,then, then, you know, present that
(12:04):
and, you know, then, then youget in the boat in the morning. Everybody's
got sort of a sense ofmission. They've got properly adjusted
expectations and, you know,the victories count for, for what
they worth or what they'reworth as opposed to being, you know,
it's like getting somebody inthe boat who, who thinks a good day
is catching 10 muskies. Youknow, if, if you catch six muskies
(12:26):
and have a stellar day,they're still going to, you know,
so make sure everybody knowswhat, what every fish is going to
be worth that day. And, andyou know, that, that makes things
a lot easier on the client andthe guide. Absolutely.
Yeah. Well, Elijah, I hopethat helps. And you know, folks,
we love questions on thearticulate fly. You can email me
or DM me on social media,whatever is easiest for you. And
(12:49):
if we use your question, I'llsend you some stickers and other
goodies. And we are drawingfor some cool stuff for Matt at the
end of the season. And youknow, Matt, before I let you go,
I know you've got kind of likepopcorn pop and you've got cancellations
kind of in the late summer,and you can tell people how to kind
of stay on top of those. Butalso, I know you started cracking
the books on the muskiefishing for fall winter, so you want
(13:09):
to let folks know kind ofwhere to find you, what you have
available and all that kind ofgood stuff.
Yeah, man, I do. So I'vefilled. I filled all of my nine cancellations
that I've had in the lastcouple of weeks, thankfully. But
I do have. I wouldn't reallycall it a cancellation, but a adjustment
of schedule. I have September23rd open and then I believe like
(13:38):
October 7th or something likethat, but that'll be kind of it for
smallmouth season at least.The main event and then. Yeah, I
haven't sent a musky email outyet but it's sitting in my drafts
folder right now. So, um, I'mgonna push that out pretty soon.
I've already booked a handfulof days there and yeah, then we're
(13:59):
just looking at, looking atthe future. I've booked some striper
days for next year, somesmallmouth days for next year. So
after about, you know, the10th of January, things get pretty
thin usually for me. So if,if, if we haven't fished together
and you'd like to reach outwhenever before then and maybe we
(14:24):
can start talking aboutsomething. But all my contact information
is on the website which ismatt rileyfly fishing.com and any
of those methods, contactwork, just great.
Well, there you go. Wellfolks, as always, say yo to yourself
to get out there and catch afew tight lines everybody. Tight
lines, Matt.
Thanks, Marvin.
Hey, folks, it's Marvin Cash,the host of the Articulate Fly. We're
back with another southwestVirginia fishing report with Matt
Reilly. Matt, how are you?
I'm doing good, man. How are you?
I'm just trying to dry out.We've been getting soaked down here
in the Piedmont of North Carolina.
Yeah, yeah, that's been kindof the, the story of the summer here.
It's been, you know, I'vereally only been smallmouth fishing
(00:27):
since about, maybe for about amonth with cicadas and vacations
and stuff like that. But, youknow, I don't know how many flash
floods we've had in thewatershed in the last month, but
it's more than, more thanfive. And it's, it's just, just now
(00:49):
starting to kind of dry out alittle bit. But, you know, we've
still got some threats ofsome, you know, we've had tropical
storms knocking around andhistorically we're rapidly approaching
what could be the firsthurricane of the season. So I'm hoping
that we stay kind of in thispattern that we're in right now.
(01:10):
We're getting, you know, somereasonable rain every four or five
days or something like that.But honestly, not holding my breath
too hard.
Yeah. So obviously the funkyweather conditions have made it incredibly
difficult to pattern things,which kind of dovetailed well with
(01:31):
a question from Elijah, whoguides down in this part of the world
for trout and smallmouth. Justkind of on a day to day basis. You've
done your homework, yourstretches of water, but how do you
make that decision about whereto pull the trigger for tomorrow?
Yeah, man, if you could, ifyou could, if you could answer that,
(01:52):
if there was a concreteanswer, you'd, you'd be, you'd be
pretty well off, I think. Butyeah, like you said, I mean, a lot
of it, you do have to havethat, that groundwork of knowing,
you know, what your, what yourdifferent stretches of river look
like, how they fish at dirtand different, you know, water levels
at, at the, you know, at thistime of year, what it's likely going
(02:18):
to mean, you know, that numberon a stream flow gauge in terms of
clarity. And you know,sometimes water temperatures can
change if you're fishingtailwater systems. And you know,
if you've got a firmunderstanding of all those details,
it, you know, the way, the wayI look at it is I, I'm always, I've
(02:41):
got an idea of what I want todo per the season. So, I mean, this
time of year I'm happiest andI Feel like we're doing our best
and putting our best footforward if we can be, you know, fishing
smallmouth on top water.That's what everybody wants to do.
Catch some really big fishthat way. But, you know, it. Sometimes,
(03:05):
sometimes you can. If you havea bunch of different options, you
can find those situationswhere you've had, you know, dropping,
clearing or, you know, lowclear water for, you know, a couple
of days and the watertemperatures are right and, and take
advantage of it, but you can'talways. And I would say that's one
(03:26):
thing that you definitely haveto be careful of, just trying to
force something like that. Youknow, there, there are times when
I feel like that might be thebest move. You know, you find yourself
in a situation where, youknow, the, the presentation, the,
the tactic that you thinkmight work for big fish for the day
(03:50):
is not perfectly prime. But,you know, everybody in the boat's
willing to put their headsdown and, and commit to something.
You know, you can do that, butit doesn't always pan out. I mean,
this summer has been probablyone of the, probably one of the least
productive or, or worst topwater seasons, summer seasons that
(04:13):
I've had in the last sevenyears. And again, we're early August,
so there's still a lot tocome, but with yo yo and flows and
dirty water and cold frontsand all that stuff, it just, just
hasn't set up. And so if youkeep trying to chase that, probably
going to end up with a lot of,you know, kind of, kind of wasted,
(04:35):
wasted days. So the otherthing that I would say is just to
keep your mind open in termsof, in terms of game plans, you know,
and try to recognize otherpotential opportunities. We've had
a lot of days this year where,you know, cold fronts and rain have
raised the water level,dirtied it up, and those can be really
(05:00):
good streamer fishingconditions if the fish, you know,
especially if you have sort oflingering low pressure and, you know,
dark skies and, and that kindof thing, the fish have sort of linger
and aggressive attitude. Youcan take advantage of that. I've
had a couple of days like thatthis year. But yeah, I would say
(05:22):
not marrying yourself to anidea, I always, I always go to the
river with sort of a couple ofgame plans, usually mo no more than
two in my head based on what Isee, you know, in the data for the
day. And then, you know,you've got to give them a good audition,
(05:43):
but, you know, also not bescared to totally change gears and
be prepared for anything. Iwould Say, that's definitely been
the biggest sort of theme thisyear is just, you know, not leaving
anything at home that's,that's not seasonal because, you
know, we've been using a lotof springtime tactics with bigger
(06:04):
streamers and sinking linesand stuff this summer, a lot of bottom
fishing stuff. And, andthere's days too, you know, like
I said, I'm, I'm alwayslooking for big fish. I'm always
trying to, this time of yearfind good, you know, top water fishing.
But a lot of times it's justnot in the cards. And if you can,
(06:26):
you know, if you find yourselfrolling on a program where, you know,
you're able to put a number offish in the boat and that's a sort
of an okay compromise, youknow, don't be afraid to just kind
of lean into that either. Youknow, you just kind of have to let
the river tell you what's theway things are going to go and, and,
(06:46):
and take it. But yeah, so Iwould say if, if you've got the firm
foundation of just what allyour rivers, all your fisheries look
like in a variety ofconditions, the next biggest element
is just understanding a widearray of patterns. You know, when
(07:13):
the fish are going to beacting different ways and if you
don't see in the cards, kindof your first choice, start looking
for those other ones, startlooking for other opportunities.
And there have been a lot ofdays this year where, you know, talking
about having a lot of rain,there have been a lot of days where
(07:33):
I've sort of chased dirtywater because, you know, you're either
because streamer fishing canbe really good in dirty water for
smallmouth, but low, dirtywater can make things more challenging.
So there's some situationswhere, you know, know I would, I
(07:53):
would almost go to the bottomof the watershed looking for the
highest water possible if Iknow I'm going to have to deal with
a certain level of clarityjust to be able to play that game,
you know, lower water might bebetter for trying to do some top
water stuff. But you know, atthe end of the day, is it really
going to be all you want it tobe? Probably not. And so, you know,
(08:16):
go down, find some betterstreamer fishing conditions and roll
those dice, you know, sothat's, that's something that I've,
I've really had to do a lotthis year is sort of giving up on
my, on my primary, my hope,you know, what I'm, what I'm looking
for and just taking cues fromthe river and you Have a really good
(08:37):
day doing something that kindof surprises you. Just try to find
those conditions again thenext time you're out. And, you know,
don't, don't put all your,your eggs in one basket.
Yeah. And so when things arefunky, do you generally try to pick
floats that have more variedwater so you feel like you can hit
maybe 50 or 60% of something.Right, as opposed to.
(08:59):
That's a, that's a great pointtoo. Yeah. I mean, so one thing I've
run into a lot this summer is,you know, like I just mentioned,
kind of low to average flow,but dingy, dirty water, you know,
a couple feet of visibilitymaybe, and, and that can be kind
of tough, especially in yourkind of flatter water, deeper sections,
(09:21):
places where I might findbigger fish in the summertime, especially
when they're set up eating,eating bugs along the banks and,
and that kind of water can be,can be kind of tough to approach
in those situations. So havingsome, some good moving water to fish,
you know, runs, shoals,riffles, that kind of stuff can be
(09:46):
sort of a concentratingelement where, you know, all of a
sudden you're not having tosearch a flat where there's, you
know, it's cloudy, water'sdirty, not really running that swiftly,
so there's nothing to reallyput a fish anywhere in particular.
That's, that's a really toughscenario, you know, Whereas if you
can go fish a ledge systemwhere you've got seams and pockets
(10:10):
and, and, you know, realstructure, that's gonna sort of concentrate
fish, that, that can be a muchbetter, much better choice. So. Yeah,
that's, that's definitely anidea. You know, sometimes I might
just lean more into, you know,again, if I, if I know I'm gonna
be streamer fishing all day,then I, I might just look for a piece
(10:32):
of water that's gonna lenditself to that, you know, so, same
thing you do looking for, youknow, like I said, you know, top
water, kind of technical sightfishing situations like I like to
do in the summertime. A lot oftimes I'm going to look for floats
that have flats, that have bigfish that are going to have sun that
(10:56):
day. They're going to have suncoming from the right angle, the
right time. And it, it's thesame, the same muscle. You just gotta,
gotta use it in another way.
Yeah. And then it goes withoutsaying we always have to come back
to first principles likehaving a really honest, frank conversation,
you know, with the clients.Right. And the clients having an
honest conversation with youabout what they really wanna get
(11:18):
out of the day can make a bigdifference too.
Yep. Managing expectations,sort of. I like to approach folks
with a game plan the nightbefore if, if I can, if I. Especially
if I know it's going to besort of atypical. You know, most
of my clients I've fished withdozens of times, so they generally
(11:41):
know what to expect whenthey're showing up. But if it's going
to be something else, I liketo sort of brief them ahead of time.
And, you know, if, even if,even if you have a feeling like things
aren't going to be great, butwe have a good shot at, you know,
doing X, if we can do this,then, then, you know, present that
(12:04):
and, you know, then, then youget in the boat in the morning. Everybody's
got sort of a sense ofmission. They've got properly adjusted
expectations and, you know,the victories count for, for what
they worth or what they'reworth as opposed to being, you know,
it's like getting somebody inthe boat who, who thinks a good day
is catching 10 muskies. Youknow, if, if you catch six muskies
(12:26):
and have a stellar day,they're still going to, you know,
so make sure everybody knowswhat, what every fish is going to
be worth that day. And, andyou know, that, that makes things
a lot easier on the client andthe guide. Absolutely.
Yeah. Well, Elijah, I hopethat helps. And you know, folks,
we love questions on thearticulate fly. You can email me
or DM me on social media,whatever is easiest for you. And
(12:49):
if we use your question, I'llsend you some stickers and other
goodies. And we are drawingfor some cool stuff for Matt at the
end of the season. And youknow, Matt, before I let you go,
I know you've got kind of likepopcorn pop and you've got cancellations
kind of in the late summer,and you can tell people how to kind
of stay on top of those. Butalso, I know you started cracking
the books on the muskiefishing for fall winter, so you want
(13:09):
to let folks know kind ofwhere to find you, what you have
available and all that kind ofgood stuff.
Yeah, man, I do. So I'vefilled. I filled all of my nine cancellations
that I've had in the lastcouple of weeks, thankfully. But
I do have. I wouldn't reallycall it a cancellation, but a adjustment
of schedule. I have September23rd open and then I believe like
(13:38):
October 7th or something likethat, but that'll be kind of it for
smallmouth season at least.The main event and then. Yeah, I
haven't sent a musky email outyet but it's sitting in my drafts
folder right now. So, um, I'mgonna push that out pretty soon.
I've already booked a handfulof days there and yeah, then we're
(13:59):
just looking at, looking atthe future. I've booked some striper
days for next year, somesmallmouth days for next year. So
after about, you know, the10th of January, things get pretty
thin usually for me. So if,if, if we haven't fished together
and you'd like to reach outwhenever before then and maybe we
(14:24):
can start talking aboutsomething. But all my contact information
is on the website which ismatt rileyfly fishing.com and any
of those methods, contactwork, just great.
Well, there you go. Wellfolks, as always, say yo to yourself
to get out there and catch afew tight lines everybody. Tight
lines, Matt.
Thanks, Marvin.
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Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
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