June 5, 2024 • 58 mins
My guest on The Beautiful Side of Grief in this episode is helping people overcome the hurt and overwhelm that comes from the chaos happening in their lives...
For some, it's sickness. For others, it's incarceration. Or the loss of a loved one. In fact, it's one of those lists that is endless.
Noah Asher is Helping People Find Purpose Within Their Pain and Their Past through the 3 H's - Hope, Help, Humor. He is the owner of The Chaos Movement where they help authors market their books so they can share their message and be heard. Noah has written and not long released an award-winning Christian book - Chaos Overcoming the Overwhelm. It’s a collaboration of real people experiencing real pain, learning how to overcome the overwhelming.
His passion is helping anyone, no matter what their situation, find that hope, passion and purpose again in their lives. So we are going to have a chat about what happened in his own life to take him on this incredible mission of helping others and what you can do to help navigate any chaos you may be experiencing in your life right here and now, today.
Noah's Bio
Noah Asher is the author of the Award-Winning Christian Book, CHAOS: Overcoming the Overwhelming. He is also the owner of The Chaos Movement where they help authors market their books. Noah speaks at prisons and rehabs across the country bringing Hope, Help, Humor to a hurting world. For more information on Noah Asher and all that he is doing, check out: www.TheNoahAsher.com
Quote:
"Something that I realized when we can kind of make jokes about our situation, about our chaos, we own it instead of it owning us
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I think loneliness hits me thehardest when I talk about different
forms of chaos And it's simplybecause I believe there's two things
people want all across the world.
They want to be seen,they want to be heard.
And when it comes to loneliness,it takes away the whole, someone
(00:21):
being seen, someone being heard.
And that loneliness state is very hardto get out of because it's something
that like every day the lonelinessis, it feels like you're digging
just a deeper, deeper, deeper pit.
And it's harder to get out of.
(00:41):
And even if it's not on purpose.
It's not that people that arelonely going, Oh, I'm lonely.
And they're digging furthercause they want to be miserable.
Sometimes it's, that'sjust what loneliness does.
And it's really important, forlisteners to understand how crucial
it is to find your community.
(01:14):
My guest on the beautiful side ofgrief today is helping people overcome
the hurt and overwhelm that comeswith chaos happening in their lives.
For some it's sickness, for others, it'sincarceration, or the loss of a loved one.
In fact, it's one of those lists.
That is aimless.
Noah Asher is helping people findpurpose within their pain and
(01:37):
their past through the three H's.
Hope, health and humor.
He is the owner of The Chaos Movement.
Where they help authors markettheir books so they can share
their message and be heard.
Noah speaks at prisons and rehabs acrossthe country, and he has written and not
long released an award winning Christianbook, Chaos Overcoming the Overwhelm.
(02:00):
His passion is helping anyone, no matterwhat their situation, find that hope,
passion and purpose again in their lives.
So we're going to have a chat about whathappened in his own life to take him
on this incredible mission of helpingothers and what you can do to help
navigate any chaos you may be experiencingin your life right here and now.
(02:22):
So Noah, a very warm welcometo the beautiful side of grief.
Yes, it's nice to finally meet you.
We've been talking throughemail, so it's nice to meet
Yeah, absolutely.
And I'm so glad that we didn't have toreschedule, I had a mishap with my laptop
and so I thought I was going to have toreschedule, but I'm very grateful that
(02:44):
I had a great team around me that got meback on track and up and running again.
Yeah, when you told me somethinghappened to your computer, I was
thinking, I don't know what I would doif I lost all the files on my computer.
And I ended up buying a flash driveyesterday and going, Okay, I need to
put everything on there just in case.
Seriously, because it's whenyou least expect it, it happens.
(03:04):
And, but you know what the mostfrustrating thing is, is trying
to remember all the passwords forall your applications and programs
that you use on a new computer.
But we digress a little bit.
My first and probably obvious questionis, given that you're still quite young,
what happened in your life that hasled you on this path of needing to help
(03:29):
people recognize and overcome their pain?
For me, it's, Yeah, so the reason Iwrote chaos and I want to stop and say
that, chaos, like you mentioned in theintro comes in many different forms.
And so someone when they hear thatword, I want it to be a word that
was so interchangeable for people.
And for me, it was, I was incarceratedyears ago and I lost everything.
(03:53):
I ended up trying to take my own life.
And then, once I got out and Istarted rebuilding my life, then
I lost my father, he passed away.
And so it was just onething after another.
And I realized, yes, like every oneof these moments were so chaotic.
And I wanted to coin that,that word for just a great way
(04:13):
to just describe everyone's
Pain, and confusion in the sense of chaos.
And it's been a word that resonateswith so many people simply because it
is, it means confusion, and I think forme, when chaos struck in the form of
incarceration and addiction, it took mylife and I, it made me start to believe
(04:38):
the lies of the enemy that life was over,that I had nothing worth living for.
And while I was in my deepest darkestpit, I thought, what do I need to hear?
I needed to hear some hope.
I needed to know that I wouldget through this, but then it was
once I got through it, the helppart of, okay, what do I do now?
(05:02):
And then that third H, the humor part isjust something that I realized when we can
make jokes about our situation, about ourchaos, we own it instead of it owning us.
And so I wanted to make sure I addedthe humor part in simply just to
provide that relief, that comic relief.
(05:22):
But, I say it early on in thebook is I don't want it to
come across as that I ever.
I am downplaying someone'sgrief because it's no fun.
I can attest to that.
It's no fun at all.
But it's to give people another formof, recovery through that process.
I think what you mentioned there is veryimportant because I think grief goes
(05:45):
hand in hand with any trauma that you'vepreviously experienced in your life.
And I often liken, a major grief eventhas been Pandora's box where the lid is
flung open and everything that's happenedin your life previously is up for grabs.
It's just this chaotic mess, and there'sthat word again, this, that happens.
(06:09):
And If we've lived a life likethat is what we're used to.
And that is the energy we'reputting out and attract more of.
So that's why we tend to rollercoasterfrom one thing to another, don't We?
until we find a differentway of managing it.
And that's why I'm so happyto be talking to you today.
(06:30):
So, that was a heck of alot that you went through.
First of all, being incarceratedand then to come out and then
shortly lose your dad thereafter.
what were the pivotal things that werelife changing for you that put you on a
different trajectory, a different path?
(06:51):
You're, you mean incoming out of my chaos?
Yes.
So I am so thankful.
My father was in my life forwhen he was and my mom as well.
They're both amazing people and comingout of chaos, I talk about how important
it is in the book, how you need peoplein your corner that will fight for you.
(07:12):
And, I think about Mark chapter two,where in, in scripture, where, there was
a paralyzed guy who wanted to be healedand it was his friends who carried him to
Jesus and lowered him through the roof.
And Jesus looked at his friendsand said, by your faith,
guys, your friend is healed.
And I had great family in my corner wholowered me to Jesus when I was just too
(07:33):
paralyzed from my pain to do it myself.
And my dad was one of those.
And so when I lost him, it was very hardand almost, it was a sense of, guilt.
Wow, he was there for me when I needed himthe most, but when he needed me, I wasn't.
(07:53):
It's how my brain processed it, of course,and that wasn't the truth, but it's just
i processed it.
And I had to learn
that there's more to, overcoming my chaos.
And so what I started doing was Ihad to change my focus of going, I'm
no longer going to say, God, why me?
(08:15):
And I'm going to startsaying, God, use me.
And those that shift in my heart andin my mind of why me to use me was
when I could start going, okay, thereis purpose in my pain and I'm going
to look for it, I'm going to findit, and I'm going to lean into that.
(08:37):
And that's how it all came about.
Yes.
That expression, use me ratherthan why me, why me is very much
a victim mentality, isn't it?
And use me is really empowering.
You can just feel the power it takes.
So let's take a look at some ofthe forms that chaos and pain take,
(08:58):
because you have this good expression.
There is purpose in your pain, butthe pain was never your purpose.
So let's take a look at some ofthe examples of pain so people can
recognize, because some people maythink, Oh, my life's not chaotic.
But when you run through the examples,they may just then recognize that yes,
(09:20):
indeed, they could be up against this.
and I would start the first one.
I'll, I took it right out of scripturewhere I look at the life of Joseph
and how he had brothers who, threw himinto a pit and left him there to die.
And then that's whenthe chaos began for him.
And then he, they decided,okay, we don't want to kill him.
Let's just throw him in a safe slavery.
(09:41):
So they did that.
And then eventually he, life startedgetting a little bit better and
then he got thrown into prison.
And then finally it was the palace.
And so he went from a pit to the prison,to the palace, and it was his final words.
Who, That we see in scripture, wherehe goes with the enemy intended for
evil, God used for good to save many.
(10:04):
And those 3 words are so important tounderstand is that God does not only
turn, things around for you, he'sturning things around for you to save
many, not that we can save anyone,but that we can help others find
that sort of hope and encouragement.
Through some of thethings we've been through.
And the best example I could give isfor someone who is maybe struggling
(10:28):
with divorce that they can leanin and they can help other people
who have been through divorce.
They can walk alongside peoplelike that and go through it with
them and let them know, Hey,you're going to get through this.
How do I know that?
Because I've gone through it myselfand I've come out the other side.
For people with illness, I also, havea, autoimmune disease called lupus.
(10:52):
And sometimes it's so painful, but,where two years ago, almost now I
was in a wheelchair, unable to walk.
I now run two miles every day.
And so when I talk to someone who's,battling lupus, sometimes I can share
that message with them and let themknow, Hey, there's hope for you.
(11:12):
There's good things coming your way.
And so it's finding thatpurpose in your pain.
And then when you do, a lot of times youend up finding some sort of platform.
In fact, you look at people all through,social media now, how effective it is.
And it can be bad in a lot of ways,but it's effective to where people go,
(11:34):
I've been through X, Y, Z, and now Iwant to help people through X, Y, Z.
And that's ultimately what the goalis to say, you know what, I'm going
to take what the enemy intended forevil, and I'm going to allow God to
use it for good, to save many people.
Yeah, good point because this iswhat this platform is all about.
(11:55):
It's using my own experiences tothen help others see that there can
be a different side to their grief.
It's not to minimize any pain thatthey're going through, but to help others.
To see that there is something that cancome from this that can be bigger, better,
greater than what they possibly imagined.
And it's to look at your painin a different way, isn't it?
(12:18):
It's to look at pain as, okay.
I've got this pain.
What is the purpose of this?
What am I supposed to learn from this?
How am I going to grow from this?
And it's all aboutchanging your perspective.
So rather than sitting in the pain, it'salmost like to be a bystander, isn't it?
Looking at the pain and saying,yeah, so what are you teaching me?
(12:42):
Exactly.
And, in my book, I talkabout, Eeyore syndrome.
And are you familiar withWinnie the Pooh and Eeyore?
Yes.
Yes.
but Eeyore, that's what he does, hewalks around, and he's just woe is me,
the cloud is over me, and I'm sorry,if I were Tigger and Winnie the Pooh
and Piglet, every time I saw that guy,I would run in the opposite direction.
(13:05):
Because he just knows how to,suck out the air of the room.
And, but when I look back on my deepest,darkest chaos, there are times where
I go, wow, I was Eeyore at times, andI'm so thankful my family did not just
stop picking up the phone when I calledbecause they're like, oh, wow, he's
(13:26):
going to complain about something, orhe's going to, have something to share.
That's just not fun to talk about.
And I was in that moment.
And I think that's there's a momentthat we all, when we go through chaos,
we're going to have that pity party atsome point, that's just to be expected.
But the difference in overcomingyour it versus staying in the
(13:50):
overwhelming is to one day.
Finally, get up and go.
Okay.
I'm done.
I'm not going to let thisrule over me any longer.
And realistically, when I chose thetagline chaos and then overcoming
the overwhelming, I was afraid.
I didn't want people to thinkthat it's too impossible.
(14:10):
You only truly overcome youroverwhelming when you shake hands with,
the president or the prime minister,when you have those big moments.
No, for some people today, yourbig overcoming your overwhelming
moment is to go, you know what,I'm going to get out of bed today.
Okay.
I'm going to brush my teeth.
I'm going to get dressed.
(14:31):
That is overcoming youroverwhelming for today.
And that's okay.
That's great.
And it's leaning in and encouragingpeople to have those moments.
It doesn't have to be some big, youknow, expansion of a successful what
we deem in the world of success.
It can just be the littlemoments that is overcoming.
Often it is the little moments, it'skeeping it at a grassroots level and just
(14:56):
appreciating what we have here and nowevery day, because we can't all be great
and successful as we see others on socialmedia or, you know, but we are great and
successful in our own day to day livesdoing what we're doing, if we're, taking
those steps to say, okay, this sucks,but you know, I'm going to do this.
(15:17):
Yeah.
And I think it's about, we can beso asleep to this because I know
myself, I was that in that victimmentality, like complaining about stuff.
Why isn't stuff better for me?
And what have you many years ago.
And, it's about, that was on such asubconscious level, I didn't even, I
wasn't even aware I was doing it, untilI did become aware, until I could look,
(15:43):
Yeah.
okay, this is what you're doing.
was the same for me in a lot of ways.
I thought I was, I almost masked it.
I would call it, Oh, I'm just venting.
But really all I wasdoing was complaining.
Like when I look back now, I go, nah,I was definitely trying to call it.
Yeah, it's something
yeah.
Yeah.
People don't be hard on yourself.
If you're listening today and going, oops,that sounds like me, the fact is that
(16:07):
you're acknowledging that here and now.
And I think that is a turning point.
So let's take a look at some ofthe key emotions that can arise
from being in that state of chaos.
The obvious, fear and anger anddisillusionment and all those,
let's run through some of those.
And can you just add, wrap somecontext around them, how they're
(16:29):
shaping their current reality andwhy we need to shift out of that.
Yeah.
So when you're in that chaos season,it's hard to call it for, see what
it is in that moment, just as wediscussed with Eeyore syndrome.
But when you're in it, there isthat fear because it's the unknown.
(16:54):
It's not knowing when is the end dateof all of when will I feel better?
You don't know what that end date is,but it's also, fear of, knowing how
it's going to happen, not just when, buthow, and what's going to, what things
are going to look like, but it's alsoliving in the, what life was versus
(17:16):
what it is and what we think it will be.
And what I mean is a lot of timeswhen chaos strikes, like Uh, we
remember how life was years ago andwe hold on to that and because of
that, we're missing out on the now
Yes.
Yes.
missing out on how things can be.
(17:37):
And, you mentioned I am young, whichthank you so much for calling me young.
Appreciate that.
But, for me, it's like,when I, it's nostalgia.
Right.
A lot of times if I watch a show thatI remember growing up watching going,
oh, this was the coolest show ever.
And then now I watch it.
I'm like, why did I think this was cool?
This was horrible.
(17:57):
And it's the nostalgia of it.
And I think a lot of times whenwe're in our chaos, we want
to lean into the nostalgia.
And we think that, oh, how it was sogood, nothing will ever be better.
And because of that, we'remissing out on, what God wants
to do in our lives currently.
(18:17):
And realistically, you have tobreak that nostalgia, period,
in my opinion, to truly be able tolean into your purpose, and start
moving to a true healing and recovery.
And, you know, we just celebratedEaster, great Christian holiday.
(18:38):
And a lot of times we look at goodFriday and we call it good Friday because
of what happened, but we didn't cointhat term until after Sunday happened.
In the moment on Friday,it was anything but good.
And Saturday, we still weren't callingit good because we were in the Saturday
(18:58):
season of going, wow, what do we do now?
Think about those disciples.
They didn't know in 24 hours whenSunday hits, Jesus will resurrect.
So they're living in that chaos.
They were so confused and so lost.
Most of them went back because,and I know this because.
Where did Jesus find a lot of these guys?
(19:20):
They found him.
They found, he found them fishing again.
So they went back totheir old way of life.
And that's the thing that's what we do.
A lot of times we go into what'scomfortable and to what we
know versus what we could do.
And I think that ultimately is whatwe have to, realize when we're in
our chaos is that while right now,it may not feel like it's good.
(19:44):
One day, Sunday will come, resurrection ofour purpose, our joy will come, and when
it does, we can finally look back at thischaos and go, Oh, it was a good Friday.
That's a great analogy, actually.
And a lot of people don'tthink of Easter like that.
They think of Easter as thechocolate eggs and things like that.
(20:06):
They don't actually see the true meaningbehind it and what that's actually
telling us and showing us and, a lotof our subconscious is conditioning.
That's on automatic.
And so when you talk about nostalgia, thatcan be synonymous with all we see is the
mountains that we have to try and overcomeand it's, and the fear around that.
(20:27):
So it's really our perception thatchanges that because often what we fear
many times, like a large percentageof the time, never comes to, to pass.
So talk to us about the role of fear inpeople's lives and how that impacts them.
fear can be dangerous becausewhen you're in fear, it's it
(20:51):
goes to the fight or flight.
Inside of us and that's what makesit scary because, fleeing the scene
is also, never good because you couldbe run away for something that could
eventually be, so great for your future.
So that's why fleeing is not alwaysthe answer, but, obviously fighting
is not always the answer either.
And, but for fear, there's, It'sresting in the fact that you
(21:18):
believe that good's coming your way.
And, I don't want to sound too preachy,so I'm trying to put it a different way.
As Christians, it's okay, I know thatGod's got this and it's holding onto that.
That makes it easier.
If you're listening to this andthat's not your background, it's
just believing though that thingswork out for good, as a whole.
(21:40):
And that's what we see.
It's just, we can see the worst of, inmy book, let me just put it this way.
Let me simplify it.
In my book, I looked at, ViktorFrankl, which was a Holocaust survivor.
And when you think about, obviouslythe Holocaust, there was nothing good
about the Holocaust, but in the endat the backside of things, Victor
(22:03):
Frankel went on to do wonderfulthings in the psychology realm.
And he built a life forhimself and for his family.
And that alone shows you that in themoment, it's not holding onto what's
happening in the here and now it'sbelieving that good's coming our way.
(22:25):
Yes, that's what hopeis all about, isn't it?
It's that belief that there islight at the end of the tunnel, that
there is something better ahead.
And like you say, when we getstuck in our past, we get stuck in
our past we're looking backward.
We can't see the light going forward.
We've got our back turnedto that almost, haven't we?
(22:48):
So it's actually, yeah, so it'sactually shifting ourselves
and our perception to trust.
Now there's a big word to trustthat things can be different.
So how do we start to do that if we'veknown nothing else except chaos in
(23:10):
our life, because some people from themoment they enter this world live very
chaotic lives, there is nothing safe,secure, stable about what they know.
So how do you then start to allowa person to see and know that
(23:33):
there is light, there is hope?
It's first off, it's going to be, it'sgoing to take believing and looking at
other victories in the same area as towhich you're experiencing that chaos.
And what I mean is, for me, when I wasincarcerated, I could Google, it can be
(23:54):
your best friend and your worst friend,friend and that same with illness, right?
I can Google why my finger is hurting, andthen three steps later, I find, I think.
Google's telling me I'mgonna die in 24 hours.
And so it can be harmful in that sense.
But there's also some it's beingspecific on what you're researching
(24:16):
and what you're looking toward.
For me, I thought that being incarceratedmeant that I could never do, do
big things and to be successful.
And so I started researching peoplewho have been incarcerated, who
have done good things and bigthings that have been successful.
And I held onto thosestories to go, oh, okay.
(24:38):
It is possible.
It is, an option if I, fight for it.
And if I lean into it, andit's the same with lupus.
It was like, okay, I can't.
It's, there's no cure for lupus.
So I have it, this is the end, butthen realizing, Oh, no, you can
be, you can have a normal life ifyou eat better, if you exercise.
(25:01):
And so it's okay, let me dothose things and lean into that.
And so whatever your chaos is, it's,doing your research and finding people
who have been successful outsideand have overcome that overwhelming
in that field of your own chaos.
So that way you have that hope toknow that it is possible to overcome.
(25:25):
That is very crucial.
And then leaning in, like Isaid, I love hope, help humor.
So I'll lean into the help part and say,Then lean into, okay, what did they do?
What were some of the steps they took?
I'm an avid reader.
I love reading, a wide varietyof books from, I'll go from
the Bible to, Victor Frankl,
Yes,
(25:45):
the most random thing.
Yeah.
And then like a fiction bookon, zombies, you just never
know what I'm going to read.
But I love, so many different genres andI love reading, but I also love learning.
And it's taking the time to researchand go, this is not the end of me.
This is truly, no matter how clichethis sounds, this is the beginning.
(26:10):
This is my moment to say, this iswhat I've, these are the cards I've
been dealt, but this is how I'm goingto take it and I'm going to, to win.
And so it's leaning into it by researchingyour situation and go, what can I do to
overcome and be like people that havegone through what I've gone through
(26:30):
and for the listener listening to thisthinking, my chaos has gone on for so
long and for, for Joseph, what I mentionedin the Bible earlier, Joseph, his life.
from the pit to the palace,that was 13 years of his life.
It was not instant.
And in the world we live in, whereeverything's so instantaneous and,
(26:52):
you're on one side of the country,Helen, and I'm on the other, right?
I mean, there's one side ofthe world right now, I'm on
the other side of the world.
Everything's so instantaneous.
And we think going from painto purpose is instantaneous.
No, sometimes it takes 13 years.
I'm sorry, but that'sjust the reality of it.
And, one time I was on a trip and we'reon the side of this mountain and it
(27:14):
started pouring down rain so hard that,we were afraid to fall off the cliff.
And so we just stopped because therain was so heavy we cannot see in
front of us, behind us or besideus, but then the storm led up.
And we could see again, sowe could drive forward again.
And so for the listener listening tothis, who thinks that chaos is just
(27:37):
a downpour on them and they can't seearound them and they're just stopped
right now and they're stuck, I canpromise you one thing, the storm will
eventually let up, you will be able tosee again and be able to go forward again.
So just hold on.
And I love that you said, search for thenuggets in the worst of your situation.
(28:01):
So like when you were incarcerated,a nugget was being able to go on
Google and search out these peoplethat were inspiring you to get
out of the situation you were in.
And that's it, like it's a, yin and yangtype situation where there is a duality.
There is a balance, with the good,there comes bad and it's just balancing
(28:24):
it all out and being able to shiftyour perception so you can see.
both sides of it and howthey're affecting you.
I wanted to talk about some of thepeople that you mention in your book,
Chaos Overcoming the Overwhelming,because that is a, a collaboration.
You describe it as a collaboration ofreal people experiencing real pain.
(28:48):
Can you share some of thestories that, you cover in there?
Yeah.
Oh,
anonymity, I obviously changed the names.
And but what we do is we look in throughthis book about how, because the word
chaos comes in many different forms.
I didn't want people to think, oh,this is a prison book, or, oh, this
is a book about the loss of his dad.
(29:08):
I wanted people to see, that stories,this hope part, like we were just
talking about that, hey, look, this ishow someone turned their bad into good.
And for example, I talk about,when I was 16, I had a friend of
mine who, died in a car crash.
And his, one of our favorite things todo every summer was like this summer
(29:30):
camp we went on, and his dad, who wasa firefighter, by the way, and was
the 1st person, 911 is the number herein the States when they called and
he was the 1st person on the scene.
He did not know he was pullingup on his son's car accident.
(29:51):
He had no idea.
So he opens the truck and he, ourother friends in the vehicle, they
survived, but he opens the truckdoor and he finds his son there as
he's, his son takes his last breath.
And, it's easy to, of course, gothrough the steps of grief and he did.
We all do.
(30:11):
There's nothing wrong with that, but heeventually got to the point where he has.
I remember how much my son lovedsummer camp and how much of a joy it
was for him every summer to do that.
And my son may not beable to go to summer camp.
Anyone, anymore, but I wantother kids to be able to go.
(30:32):
And so he opened up a foundationand he started sending other kids to
this summer camp that we would go to.
And so that's the, from pain topurpose that I discuss in the
book, those sorts of moments whereit's just so beautiful to see.
Another girl.
I know, Her boyfriend was always,uh, physically abusing her and
(30:56):
eventually she kept going back to him.
It was a long drawn out situation,but eventually she got out of it
and now she helps other women whohave been stuck in domestic violence
scenarios and that's what she's doing.
And that's her full time job.
Now that's all she does.
And it's, that's what's so cool.
(31:18):
And that's for even me, like what we'redoing with this book is we provide
copies of this book, every book sold.
Is it?
None of that money goes to me.
It all goes to providing copies ofthis book inside prison libraries and
rehab centers because we are adamantabout making sure that people find
(31:38):
the hope and the help they need.
To get through, I put it this way isthat I want to be the brightest of lights
for people in their darkest of pits.
And that is what that's what thisbook is about is to say, hey, if
this is your story, boom, if this isyour story, boom, here's examples.
(32:00):
You don't have to stay, if you lost yourson, it doesn't have to be a summer camp
moment, but lean into 1st off, knowing.
that there will come a day whenit's not ever fully over, but it's
easier, and to lean into that andgo that there is a way to take this
pain and find purpose in it all.
(32:21):
But also too, I talk about stories.
There was my neighbors whose, dad, passedaway due to COVID, in the height of the
2020, with all of COVID and his, one ofhis daughters was a senior in high school.
So she was about to graduateand, two months he died.
And then two months later,she's supposed to graduate.
(32:41):
And so it's just moments like that.
But I talk about that in my bookand I say this story right here.
Is not finished being written yet.
It's still being written right now.
I don't know what, his daughter'sgoing to do, but I know it'll be good.
And that's another thing for the,for you listener who maybe you feel
(33:04):
like, okay, my chaos just happened.
Friday just happened.
I'm in my Saturday seasonbecause Sunday hasn't come yet.
And you're in that Saturday.
My, my best.
hope I can give you is to know that yourstory is still being written and that
you just have to trust the author towrite an ending so epic it's going to
(33:27):
inspire not only you, but it's going toinspire everyone who sees your story.
Oh, mic drop there.
That is so beautiful.
So inspiring.
Truly, truly.
How are you describing this?
What you're saying is whatresonates with people.
It's a ding ding moment.
When somebody listens to this,they can see themselves in the gut.
(33:48):
Ah, so I'm on my Saturdayand Sunday's still coming.
Yeah.
I had an incident I'mgoing to share with you.
I phoned my daughter and it turned outit was two minutes before her accident.
So my initial thought was like, Ohmy goodness , I caused her accident.
I was devastated.
(34:09):
And then I was able to shiftthat around to say, How lucky
am I that I got to speak to her
Wow.
Yeah.
Before she died and we just shifted into anew home and she just she was so excited.
She just set up her bedroom and she'sgot mom go check out my bedroom, and
(34:29):
so those are the things I remember.
So I could focus on, oh mygosh, did I distract her?
Well, actually I drove for twominutes, that's a long distance,
I didn't cause her accident.
But in that initial, when I firstheard about it, I just thought,
oh, and I could have stayed there.
Oh,
it,
yes.
(34:50):
I feel you on that.
It's the shoulda, what coulda,shoulda, woulda, those moments.
And realistically that word shift,it's so funny when I first got out of,
being incarcerated, I ended up gettinga job at a very popular hotel chain.
And three weeks later, just the frontdesk, three weeks later, they made me
the general manager, which is crazy.
(35:10):
And then I moved into director ofoperations for this, very popular
hotel chain all across the world.
And I was doing some really coolthings, but that's something I would
always teach my general managersis that when people come to you and
they go, why, they're complaining,why is the hot tub not working?
You sh the word shift is always the focus.
I tell them, I'm say, I'm sosorry our hot tub is down.
(35:34):
But, our pool is heated, like you.
Shift their focus to something else.
And a lot of times I've learned thatin chaos too, is it's to shift it.
It's to say, this happened, butthen shift it and go, you know what?
I'm grateful that I have a home, somewherewhen I first got out, for example, the
(35:54):
beds being locked up were so small and Icould complain about the craziest things
and I go, well at least I have a fullmattress to sleep on tonight at my house.
At least I have freedom.
It's shifting the focus, in those moments.
I talk about, I've just done thisoffering and I, one of the letters
is dedicated to gratitude because,I thought I knew about gratitude.
(36:19):
I thought I was a grateful personuntil I really started practicing
gratitude every single day of my life.
Writing down what I was grateful for,three to five things every morning.
And it was simple things like here I am,I've got hot water to have a hot shower.
I've got a roof over my head, thesun's pouring through the windows.
(36:42):
How grateful am I that I have thatwhen there are people in war torn
situations or in countries where,you know, just getting water doesn't
matter about it being heated, butjust getting water is a huge mission.
And.
the power of gratitude and shiftingyour mindset to be aware of each and
(37:07):
every day, what is happening for you.
So I'm so grateful.
I got my laptop, a new laptopup and running, ready for
this interview, like that.
Oh gosh.
I just thought there's nothing I could doabout what had happened, but let's just
give it some grace and give it some time.
And what will be.
And here we are.
(37:28):
Oh,
a quote the other day.
It said something, I'm going to paraphraseit because I don't remember it verbatim,
but it was something on the lines ofwhat if you woke up in the morning
and you only had what you were saidyou were thankful for the day before.
And.
(37:48):
Yeah, it got me because I was like, howmany times do I actually say I'm thankful
for my house thankful for my vehicle?
What if I woke up the next day and Ididn't have any of those things then
I would start going Oh, yeah, I guessthey were something to be thankful for.
Yeah,
Yeah.
So I'm grateful for the 18 years Igot to have with my beautiful girl.
(38:10):
Like people say, yeah, she died too young.
Well, yeah, that, that'sa reality I can't change.
But what I can change is like, how luckywas I that she graced my world and gave
me these beautiful memories and events.
And, it's again, that shift.
It's a shift in how youchoose to look at it.
(38:31):
Are you feeling lost, anxious,unsure of how to navigate the
loss of your beautiful loved one.
I don't know where to head next.
Yeah, I get that.
Then you may be interested in A Letterof Hope and Aroha to help you find
out who you are right here and now.
And how you can navigate that withoutbeing on that emotional roller
(38:53):
coaster feeling out of control.
That's a feeling I really dislikedafter Tahl and then Adrian died.
So I've developed an eight weeksupport program where each week you
get an email of what worked for me.
As well as other tried andtrue tools to help with grief.
It's a beautiful calming, meanhealing resource that I think
(39:16):
you're really going to like.
And that you can use in youreveryday life to find out what
works for you and what doesn't.
And the great thing is you findyourself feeling stronger and more in
control, so you can work out what youwant life to look like going forward.
So with this sounds like somethingyou would like to check out, head
(39:37):
over to my website, or check outthe link in the episode notes, you're
looking for A Letter of Hope & Aroha.
Can we explore, Noah,loneliness a bit more?
Because although we're living in theage of technology and have access to so
much, I believe we've created so manymore lonely people because of this that
(39:59):
are disconnected from having real, liverelationships and connections with others.
I think loneliness hits me thehardest when I talk about different
forms of chaos And it's simplybecause I believe there's two things
people want all across the world.
They want to be seen,they want to be heard.
(40:21):
And when it comes to loneliness,it takes away the whole, someone
being seen, someone being heard.
And that loneliness state is very hardto get out of because it's something
that like every day the lonelinessis, it feels like you're digging
(40:42):
just a deeper, deeper, deeper pit.
And it's harder to get out of.
And even if it's not on purpose.
It's not that people that arelonely going, Oh, I'm lonely.
And they're digging furthercause they want to be miserable.
Sometimes it's, that'sjust what loneliness does.
And it's really important, forlisteners to understand how crucial
(41:06):
it is to find your community.
In fact, I was talkingto someone the other day.
They told me they had no sort of addictionin their life, but I said, that's okay,
but you don't want to go to church.
That's fine.
But I recommend finding a,Alcoholics Anonymous is here.
What we call them in theStates, like the AA meetings.
(41:27):
I said, go to one.
And they're like, why?
I don't struggle with alcoholism.
I said, go becausethere's community there.
There's people who will go.
I said, you'll meet people that are just,first off, they're the most gracious
because they go, I have a past of my own.
So I'm not going to judge you foryours first and foremost, but secondly,
to they also know what it feelslike to be lonely and so they're
(41:50):
going to welcome you in and just go.
Sit, eat some cookies with them, hang out.
And, so I recommend that for people allthe time, but that's something that we
have to be the most combative when we arein a season of loneliness, that's the most
combative we ever have to be is to fightthat loneliness and to find community.
(42:15):
That's one thing I'm, as a Christian,I believe so wholeheartedly that the
enemy is against is us finding community.
And, in the Lion King, haveyou ever seen the Lion King?
yep,
that's what Scar does to Simba.
Simba is watches his father die.
And because Scar knows, okay, now thatMufasa's out of the picture, Simba is the
(42:38):
heir to the throne, and there's nothingScar can do to change who gets the throne.
So what he does was he tells Simba,he puts him in an identity crisis
of going, Hey, you're a murderer.
You're a failure.
And then he gets Simba torun from his family and his
friends and to get him secluded.
(43:01):
That was the whole goal of, Scar.
In fact, it was him and the hyenas.
They were like, should we chase him?
He's no, he'll die.
He'll die in the wilderness alone.
That was what Scar wanted for Simba.
And I think a lot of times, no matterwhat led us to that season of loneliness,
you have to understand it was.
(43:23):
In some ways, a group oflions is called a pride.
And I thought it was ironic thatin some ways it was Simba's pride
who took him from his pride.
But it's going back home.
It's going back home and maybe notto literally your, physical mom and
dad home, but going back home to yourcommunity and finding that connection.
(43:46):
Those people that can lift youup instead of tear you down.
It's a lot easier, of course, tofind people that will tear you down
and lift you up, but it's beingvery, aware that, okay, I'm lonely,
but I don't want to stay this way.
And then being proactive,
I love that term, finding your tribe,because your tribe represents those
(44:09):
people that get you, where you don'thave to explain, they're just there, they
understand, there's no judgment there.
And like you say, whatever it takes,just find those people, gravitate
towards them, , because they willbe the ones that, will help you.
We'll help lift you up andprovide that light for you.
That's the beautiful.
Yeah.
(44:30):
The other thing I want to have a chatwith you about is, we're often looking to
the outside for validation of ourselvesfor acceptance and, to overcome, we
think that it happens on the outside.
I'm a great believer that we haveeverything we need within us.
What are your thoughts on that?
(44:50):
Okay.
This is, this is a great seguebecause since we just talked about
the Lion King, but so here you haveSimba and he thinks he's a murderer.
He thinks he's a failure.
He goes off, Hakuna Matata with two, twoof his friends and then, that he meets.
And then it was still, he wasstill not ready to go back home.
(45:12):
He still considered himself the murderer.
Of his father.
He still had those thoughtsand that's what chaos does.
It leaves us in that identity crisiswhere we start to believe that we are
what we've done, or we are what someoneelse has said about us that happens a
lot on social media right now, becauseit's so easy to just leave a comment.
(45:36):
And people don't understand therepercussions of that a lot of times.
But, I digress on that one,but the, it was for Simba.
He woke up the moment he lookedup in the sky and his father
goes, Simba, remember who you are.
And that's when he woke up.
And I think for us, we have to stop andremember who we are, because when you're
(45:59):
incarcerated, every moment of every day,they're telling you, come here, inmate,
there, here's your number, give me yournumber one, one, one, and it's, it wasn't,
I'll remember when I first got out, theofficer was taking us somewhere and he
goes, Hey, you're no longer an inmate.
And I just sobbed.
Because one, I was thankful, butthen I was like, who am I now?
(46:24):
How do I find out who I am?
And it was like relearningwho I truly was.
And I think that the same istrue when it comes to divorce.
A lot of times, relationships,they'll split and you're left going,
I wonder if I would have, lost weight.
If I could have kept, mypartner, those sorts of things.
(46:45):
We question all of these, these ideasof who we are, but who we should
have been what we could have beenfor our, our partner or for our life
to not go down this path of chaos.
But.
At the end of the day, it all comesback to remembering who we are.
So yeah, I agree.
It's inside of us.
(47:06):
And if you ever seen Lion King onBroadway, the song says, he lives in you.
That's what it is, though.
It's inside of us.
It lives inside of us.
And it's, it is leaning intothat and going, you know what?
I'm no longer a lost cause.
I am a found child andit's holding on to those.
I'm a great believer that we wereall born perfectly imperfect.
(47:31):
That there is no accident.
We are who we are experiencingwhat we are experiencing.
And we just need to navigateand find our way through that.
And like you say, just keep,pointing north, finding that north
star, that purpose, that hope,that light, that happiness, and
that, because that is our journey.
(47:53):
I, believe all the restis just superficial.
But once, once we find our purpose,everything seems to just fall into place.
You just, you're just, I would say,Noah, that I bet you couldn't walk away
from what you're doing now because youknow so much that this is your purpose.
(48:14):
This is your passion.
This is what you need to be doing.
No matter how tough itis some days for you.
Would I be
would, Most definitely.
And what's funny is this is notwhat I thought my life would be,
nor what I wanted my life to be.
And, but then I had to go, Icannot change what has happened.
(48:36):
So I'm going to shift.
I'm going to go, what is it?
Is the silver lining, the excelsior,that moment where I lean into
that and I go, I'm going to nowfind out how I can help others.
And that's why I'm so adamant aboutsaying with your pain, there's purpose.
And then it builds a platform for you.
(48:57):
And that's what I'm living in rightnow is that, that platform part where I
can share with others, just like you'redoing Helen, you're sharing with others.
But it doesn't happen overnight.
It takes a time.
And when I was locked up, I neverthought, I'll just hang in there.
One day I'll be on podcastsall the way in New Zealand.
(49:17):
I was never the focus thinking thatsomething like that would happen,
but now I'm adamant about lettingpeople know who are sitting in
their cell right now to go, what.
I can one day sit on a podcastwith people from New Zealand.
It's just, it's having that momentof going, I can do these things.
I've seen others do it.
(49:38):
And if he or she can do it, I can do it.
Absolutely.
Yeah, it's providing that hope for people,first and foremost, but I'm very grateful.
It's a lot easier for me tobe grateful with my situation.
Like I said, the food was horrible.
So if I go to a restaurant and I havebad experience, like a bad experience,
(49:58):
I go, it's better than prison food.
So it's a lot easier for mein some ways, but no, it's,
I am very grateful every day.
That I get to do what I'm doing nowand it would not have happened if I
didn't go through my season of chaosand, now in my book, I talk about how,
the third section of the book is calledThe Aftermath, and it's okay, once the
(50:20):
storm dissipates and the enemy retreats,a lot of times we're left with rubble.
We're left to rebuild.
And, for me, I sat on this book,Chaos, for a while going, and sat
on my purpose for a while going,I'm not going to publish, I'm not
going to start doing all this untilI feel as if I have fully rebuilt.
(50:41):
And then I was like, dude, you'renever going to be fully rebuilt.
You're always growing.
You're always rebuilding.
There's always going tobe something to be done.
And so I realized, no, I'm the rebuilds.
I need a beat to do what I'm doing now.
And then we'll work, we'llworry about the rest later.
And so that's what I leaned into.
(51:01):
Yeah, that's book two.
But no, it's so important.
And I tell people that all the time.
It's just like when someone'swho is an addict, who's I'm
not recovered, I'm recovering.
And, that's the same about re with loss.
When I lost my dad, there's ahole that will never be filled by
(51:22):
him again on this side of, life.
And because of that, it goes,I'm never fully rebuilt, but I'm
rebuilding or I'm never fully healed.
I'm healing and it's making sure peopleunderstand that, because there's that.
Yeah, and there's good days and baddays, just like there's, I talk, I use
(51:46):
the storm a lot, analogy a lot in thisbook, but I feel like chaos is that
downpour, that tsunami sort of moment,but that doesn't mean when you're
rebuilding, you don't still experiencea little rain showers along the way.
Or the rainbows.
Yeah, there's somebeautiful rainbows for sure.
(52:06):
Yeah, you don't get thoseunless you've had the rain.
That's so true.
Yeah, and and I'm the way I look atlife now too, since losing my daughter
and then, a partner, new partner.
I just look at it that, I, I'mblessed every single day because
out of the worst has come a lifethat I never knew could exist.
(52:28):
Yeah.
It's better in so many waysthan I could ever have imagined.
And that's the flip side.
That's what we don't often see where we'regoing into, but if we stay the course and
just keep taking one step after another,That's where we end up and it's beautiful.
It's beautiful.
(52:49):
Hey, Noah, fabulous conversation, mate.
Just absolutely wonderful.
So what is it that we haven't coveredthat you would like to leave our
listeners with before I finish upwith a couple of questions for you?
I more than anything listener I justwant you to understand something.
You will get through this.
(53:09):
That's what I want you to understandis you will get through this.
There will turn.
There will be a turning pointin your life where you'll go.
You know what?
Friday was good because of Sundayand you're going to look back at
this moment and go, it, it wasn'tgreat, but it was good in the sense
of what came out of it in the end.
So hold on and know that thestorm will dissipate and you will
(53:34):
be able to see forward again.
Oh, perfect.
Noah, what is the best thing thathas happened to you so far today?
Today.
Ooh.
I got this photo hanging behindme, . I got that put up finally.
That, and then I am finishingup my, one of my degrees and
(53:54):
then I'm working on my master's.
And I just hit the send buttonon one of my final papers.
And then, yeah, and thenI am also finishing a new
book and I just got through.
I think.
Some of the most raw, the rawest,realist chapter I've written yet.
(54:15):
And so I'm very thankful.
great.
And for the listeners, the picturethat he's alluding to just before
that he pointed to, that obviouslyyou couldn't see is, the picture
with the word chaos on it.
It's an umbrella.
There's a big rain cloud with rain pouringdown and it's being sheltered with the
umbrella and it's a pretty cool picture isvery simplistic, but so much depth to it.
(54:42):
It's all of the words.
It's the, it's my cover of my bookand it's all the words of chaos.
And it feels like it'sraining down upon you.
And so you're going to seethose words like rejection,
like loneliness, like loss and
Anxiety, and just different ways andchaos, comes and the way it feels
like it's just pouring down upon us.
It.
(55:02):
Good picture.
Okay, what is something thatyou are most grateful for?
Through all that I've been through,I, talked early about my family and,
my mom who still lives in the samecity I live in, through all the chaos
we've been through and with the lossof my father, it's been a time for us
(55:25):
to connect and grow in a deeper way.
And she's a big part of my life.
She texts me earlier.
She said, you want to get dinner?
And I'm like, yes, let's get dinner.
So those moments to be able to have that,it's that shift focus to go, man, I'm sad
that I lost my dad, but it's shifting andgo, I'm so thankful that I have my mom.
Yes, yes, yes.
(55:47):
We have an expression here in NewZealand that when things are not
going so well they turn to custard.
How do you pivot out of momentsthat are looking a little bit
on the darker side for you?
What do you do?
Do you have any go tos?
When things are going south.
Yeah,
to pivot out of them?
Is there anything you do?
(56:10):
Humor.
Humor's a big part of my life.
I like for me, even when I write,my book is has those funny moments,
but then it just boom, the reviewsall say, we'll laugh and then
we'll cry in the same chapter.
And that's the story of my life.
I feel like that's me in a nutshellis laughing and crying in the same
day in the same moment sometimes.
(56:30):
But I turn on, the office is a bigpart of my life, a TV show called
the office, that, and, just any,anything with comedy, I love to
turn on and just take myself away.
Another thing I do is music.
It's just for me as a Christian though,I choose like praise music and, it's
taking that moment and just shiftingand saying like, all right, got it.
(56:54):
This, I'm praising you for this.
I'm praising you for that.
And then before you know it, you'relike, wow, what was I upset about?
Yeah, exactly.
It's lifting your energy, isn't it?
Yeah.
Powerful.
Powerful tools.
Thank you for sharing those with us.
Noah, how can people reach you?
If you go to my website,my socials are on there.
Everything starts at the website.
(57:15):
That's my hub.
It's, uh, thenoahasher.
com.
Great.
And I'll have the links to yourwebsite in the episode notes and that.
I just want to thank you,Noah, for taking this time.
I know it's your early evening there.
So I'm very grateful that you've takensome time out of your evening to come and
(57:37):
talk to me today and to share your storyof overcoming so brilliantly yourself.
I mean, how you've pivoted yourlife from, where you were to
where you are now is truly.
the inspiration for so many andthe provider of hope for so many.
And yeah, a privilege toshare your story and have you
(58:01):
much.
I love what you're doing and it's soimportant for people to understand,
whether they look at my chaos or yoursand go, if they made it, I can make it.
So thank you for what you're doing.
I think loneliness hits me thehardest when I talk about different
forms of chaos And it's simplybecause I believe there's two things
people want all across the world.
They want to be seen,they want to be heard.
And when it comes to loneliness,it takes away the whole, someone
(00:21):
being seen, someone being heard.
And that loneliness state is very hardto get out of because it's something
that like every day the lonelinessis, it feels like you're digging
just a deeper, deeper, deeper pit.
And it's harder to get out of.
(00:41):
And even if it's not on purpose.
It's not that people that arelonely going, Oh, I'm lonely.
And they're digging furthercause they want to be miserable.
Sometimes it's, that'sjust what loneliness does.
And it's really important, forlisteners to understand how crucial
it is to find your community.
(01:14):
My guest on the beautiful side ofgrief today is helping people overcome
the hurt and overwhelm that comeswith chaos happening in their lives.
For some it's sickness, for others, it'sincarceration, or the loss of a loved one.
In fact, it's one of those lists.
That is aimless.
Noah Asher is helping people findpurpose within their pain and
(01:37):
their past through the three H's.
Hope, health and humor.
He is the owner of The Chaos Movement.
Where they help authors markettheir books so they can share
their message and be heard.
Noah speaks at prisons and rehabs acrossthe country, and he has written and not
long released an award winning Christianbook, Chaos Overcoming the Overwhelm.
(02:00):
His passion is helping anyone, no matterwhat their situation, find that hope,
passion and purpose again in their lives.
So we're going to have a chat about whathappened in his own life to take him
on this incredible mission of helpingothers and what you can do to help
navigate any chaos you may be experiencingin your life right here and now.
(02:22):
So Noah, a very warm welcometo the beautiful side of grief.
Yes, it's nice to finally meet you.
We've been talking throughemail, so it's nice to meet
Yeah, absolutely.
And I'm so glad that we didn't have toreschedule, I had a mishap with my laptop
and so I thought I was going to have toreschedule, but I'm very grateful that
(02:44):
I had a great team around me that got meback on track and up and running again.
Yeah, when you told me somethinghappened to your computer, I was
thinking, I don't know what I would doif I lost all the files on my computer.
And I ended up buying a flash driveyesterday and going, Okay, I need to
put everything on there just in case.
Seriously, because it's whenyou least expect it, it happens.
(03:04):
And, but you know what the mostfrustrating thing is, is trying
to remember all the passwords forall your applications and programs
that you use on a new computer.
But we digress a little bit.
My first and probably obvious questionis, given that you're still quite young,
what happened in your life that hasled you on this path of needing to help
(03:29):
people recognize and overcome their pain?
For me, it's, Yeah, so the reason Iwrote chaos and I want to stop and say
that, chaos, like you mentioned in theintro comes in many different forms.
And so someone when they hear thatword, I want it to be a word that
was so interchangeable for people.
And for me, it was, I was incarceratedyears ago and I lost everything.
(03:53):
I ended up trying to take my own life.
And then, once I got out and Istarted rebuilding my life, then
I lost my father, he passed away.
And so it was just onething after another.
And I realized, yes, like every oneof these moments were so chaotic.
And I wanted to coin that,that word for just a great way
(04:13):
to just describe everyone's
Pain, and confusion in the sense of chaos.
And it's been a word that resonateswith so many people simply because it
is, it means confusion, and I think forme, when chaos struck in the form of
incarceration and addiction, it took mylife and I, it made me start to believe
(04:38):
the lies of the enemy that life was over,that I had nothing worth living for.
And while I was in my deepest darkestpit, I thought, what do I need to hear?
I needed to hear some hope.
I needed to know that I wouldget through this, but then it was
once I got through it, the helppart of, okay, what do I do now?
(05:02):
And then that third H, the humor part isjust something that I realized when we can
make jokes about our situation, about ourchaos, we own it instead of it owning us.
And so I wanted to make sure I addedthe humor part in simply just to
provide that relief, that comic relief.
(05:22):
But, I say it early on in thebook is I don't want it to
come across as that I ever.
I am downplaying someone'sgrief because it's no fun.
I can attest to that.
It's no fun at all.
But it's to give people another formof, recovery through that process.
I think what you mentioned there is veryimportant because I think grief goes
(05:45):
hand in hand with any trauma that you'vepreviously experienced in your life.
And I often liken, a major grief eventhas been Pandora's box where the lid is
flung open and everything that's happenedin your life previously is up for grabs.
It's just this chaotic mess, and there'sthat word again, this, that happens.
(06:09):
And If we've lived a life likethat is what we're used to.
And that is the energy we'reputting out and attract more of.
So that's why we tend to rollercoasterfrom one thing to another, don't We?
until we find a differentway of managing it.
And that's why I'm so happyto be talking to you today.
(06:30):
So, that was a heck of alot that you went through.
First of all, being incarceratedand then to come out and then
shortly lose your dad thereafter.
what were the pivotal things that werelife changing for you that put you on a
different trajectory, a different path?
(06:51):
You're, you mean incoming out of my chaos?
Yes.
So I am so thankful.
My father was in my life forwhen he was and my mom as well.
They're both amazing people and comingout of chaos, I talk about how important
it is in the book, how you need peoplein your corner that will fight for you.
(07:12):
And, I think about Mark chapter two,where in, in scripture, where, there was
a paralyzed guy who wanted to be healedand it was his friends who carried him to
Jesus and lowered him through the roof.
And Jesus looked at his friendsand said, by your faith,
guys, your friend is healed.
And I had great family in my corner wholowered me to Jesus when I was just too
(07:33):
paralyzed from my pain to do it myself.
And my dad was one of those.
And so when I lost him, it was very hardand almost, it was a sense of, guilt.
Wow, he was there for me when I needed himthe most, but when he needed me, I wasn't.
(07:53):
It's how my brain processed it, of course,and that wasn't the truth, but it's just
i processed it.
And I had to learn
that there's more to, overcoming my chaos.
And so what I started doing was Ihad to change my focus of going, I'm
no longer going to say, God, why me?
(08:15):
And I'm going to startsaying, God, use me.
And those that shift in my heart andin my mind of why me to use me was
when I could start going, okay, thereis purpose in my pain and I'm going
to look for it, I'm going to findit, and I'm going to lean into that.
(08:37):
And that's how it all came about.
Yes.
That expression, use me ratherthan why me, why me is very much
a victim mentality, isn't it?
And use me is really empowering.
You can just feel the power it takes.
So let's take a look at some ofthe forms that chaos and pain take,
(08:58):
because you have this good expression.
There is purpose in your pain, butthe pain was never your purpose.
So let's take a look at some ofthe examples of pain so people can
recognize, because some people maythink, Oh, my life's not chaotic.
But when you run through the examples,they may just then recognize that yes,
(09:20):
indeed, they could be up against this.
and I would start the first one.
I'll, I took it right out of scripturewhere I look at the life of Joseph
and how he had brothers who, threw himinto a pit and left him there to die.
And then that's whenthe chaos began for him.
And then he, they decided,okay, we don't want to kill him.
Let's just throw him in a safe slavery.
(09:41):
So they did that.
And then eventually he, life startedgetting a little bit better and
then he got thrown into prison.
And then finally it was the palace.
And so he went from a pit to the prison,to the palace, and it was his final words.
Who, That we see in scripture, wherehe goes with the enemy intended for
evil, God used for good to save many.
(10:04):
And those 3 words are so important tounderstand is that God does not only
turn, things around for you, he'sturning things around for you to save
many, not that we can save anyone,but that we can help others find
that sort of hope and encouragement.
Through some of thethings we've been through.
And the best example I could give isfor someone who is maybe struggling
(10:28):
with divorce that they can leanin and they can help other people
who have been through divorce.
They can walk alongside peoplelike that and go through it with
them and let them know, Hey,you're going to get through this.
How do I know that?
Because I've gone through it myselfand I've come out the other side.
For people with illness, I also, havea, autoimmune disease called lupus.
(10:52):
And sometimes it's so painful, but,where two years ago, almost now I
was in a wheelchair, unable to walk.
I now run two miles every day.
And so when I talk to someone who's,battling lupus, sometimes I can share
that message with them and let themknow, Hey, there's hope for you.
(11:12):
There's good things coming your way.
And so it's finding thatpurpose in your pain.
And then when you do, a lot of times youend up finding some sort of platform.
In fact, you look at people all through,social media now, how effective it is.
And it can be bad in a lot of ways,but it's effective to where people go,
(11:34):
I've been through X, Y, Z, and now Iwant to help people through X, Y, Z.
And that's ultimately what the goalis to say, you know what, I'm going
to take what the enemy intended forevil, and I'm going to allow God to
use it for good, to save many people.
Yeah, good point because this iswhat this platform is all about.
(11:55):
It's using my own experiences tothen help others see that there can
be a different side to their grief.
It's not to minimize any pain thatthey're going through, but to help others.
To see that there is something that cancome from this that can be bigger, better,
greater than what they possibly imagined.
And it's to look at your painin a different way, isn't it?
(12:18):
It's to look at pain as, okay.
I've got this pain.
What is the purpose of this?
What am I supposed to learn from this?
How am I going to grow from this?
And it's all aboutchanging your perspective.
So rather than sitting in the pain, it'salmost like to be a bystander, isn't it?
Looking at the pain and saying,yeah, so what are you teaching me?
(12:42):
Exactly.
And, in my book, I talkabout, Eeyore syndrome.
And are you familiar withWinnie the Pooh and Eeyore?
Yes.
Yes.
but Eeyore, that's what he does, hewalks around, and he's just woe is me,
the cloud is over me, and I'm sorry,if I were Tigger and Winnie the Pooh
and Piglet, every time I saw that guy,I would run in the opposite direction.
(13:05):
Because he just knows how to,suck out the air of the room.
And, but when I look back on my deepest,darkest chaos, there are times where
I go, wow, I was Eeyore at times, andI'm so thankful my family did not just
stop picking up the phone when I calledbecause they're like, oh, wow, he's
(13:26):
going to complain about something, orhe's going to, have something to share.
That's just not fun to talk about.
And I was in that moment.
And I think that's there's a momentthat we all, when we go through chaos,
we're going to have that pity party atsome point, that's just to be expected.
But the difference in overcomingyour it versus staying in the
(13:50):
overwhelming is to one day.
Finally, get up and go.
Okay.
I'm done.
I'm not going to let thisrule over me any longer.
And realistically, when I chose thetagline chaos and then overcoming
the overwhelming, I was afraid.
I didn't want people to thinkthat it's too impossible.
(14:10):
You only truly overcome youroverwhelming when you shake hands with,
the president or the prime minister,when you have those big moments.
No, for some people today, yourbig overcoming your overwhelming
moment is to go, you know what,I'm going to get out of bed today.
Okay.
I'm going to brush my teeth.
I'm going to get dressed.
(14:31):
That is overcoming youroverwhelming for today.
And that's okay.
That's great.
And it's leaning in and encouragingpeople to have those moments.
It doesn't have to be some big, youknow, expansion of a successful what
we deem in the world of success.
It can just be the littlemoments that is overcoming.
Often it is the little moments, it'skeeping it at a grassroots level and just
(14:56):
appreciating what we have here and nowevery day, because we can't all be great
and successful as we see others on socialmedia or, you know, but we are great and
successful in our own day to day livesdoing what we're doing, if we're, taking
those steps to say, okay, this sucks,but you know, I'm going to do this.
(15:17):
Yeah.
And I think it's about, we can beso asleep to this because I know
myself, I was that in that victimmentality, like complaining about stuff.
Why isn't stuff better for me?
And what have you many years ago.
And, it's about, that was on such asubconscious level, I didn't even, I
wasn't even aware I was doing it, untilI did become aware, until I could look,
(15:43):
Yeah.
okay, this is what you're doing.
was the same for me in a lot of ways.
I thought I was, I almost masked it.
I would call it, Oh, I'm just venting.
But really all I wasdoing was complaining.
Like when I look back now, I go, nah,I was definitely trying to call it.
Yeah, it's something
yeah.
Yeah.
People don't be hard on yourself.
If you're listening today and going, oops,that sounds like me, the fact is that
(16:07):
you're acknowledging that here and now.
And I think that is a turning point.
So let's take a look at some ofthe key emotions that can arise
from being in that state of chaos.
The obvious, fear and anger anddisillusionment and all those,
let's run through some of those.
And can you just add, wrap somecontext around them, how they're
(16:29):
shaping their current reality andwhy we need to shift out of that.
Yeah.
So when you're in that chaos season,it's hard to call it for, see what
it is in that moment, just as wediscussed with Eeyore syndrome.
But when you're in it, there isthat fear because it's the unknown.
(16:54):
It's not knowing when is the end dateof all of when will I feel better?
You don't know what that end date is,but it's also, fear of, knowing how
it's going to happen, not just when, buthow, and what's going to, what things
are going to look like, but it's alsoliving in the, what life was versus
(17:16):
what it is and what we think it will be.
And what I mean is a lot of timeswhen chaos strikes, like Uh, we
remember how life was years ago andwe hold on to that and because of
that, we're missing out on the now
Yes.
Yes.
missing out on how things can be.
(17:37):
And, you mentioned I am young, whichthank you so much for calling me young.
Appreciate that.
But, for me, it's like,when I, it's nostalgia.
Right.
A lot of times if I watch a show thatI remember growing up watching going,
oh, this was the coolest show ever.
And then now I watch it.
I'm like, why did I think this was cool?
This was horrible.
(17:57):
And it's the nostalgia of it.
And I think a lot of times whenwe're in our chaos, we want
to lean into the nostalgia.
And we think that, oh, how it was sogood, nothing will ever be better.
And because of that, we'remissing out on, what God wants
to do in our lives currently.
(18:17):
And realistically, you have tobreak that nostalgia, period,
in my opinion, to truly be able tolean into your purpose, and start
moving to a true healing and recovery.
And, you know, we just celebratedEaster, great Christian holiday.
(18:38):
And a lot of times we look at goodFriday and we call it good Friday because
of what happened, but we didn't cointhat term until after Sunday happened.
In the moment on Friday,it was anything but good.
And Saturday, we still weren't callingit good because we were in the Saturday
(18:58):
season of going, wow, what do we do now?
Think about those disciples.
They didn't know in 24 hours whenSunday hits, Jesus will resurrect.
So they're living in that chaos.
They were so confused and so lost.
Most of them went back because,and I know this because.
Where did Jesus find a lot of these guys?
(19:20):
They found him.
They found, he found them fishing again.
So they went back totheir old way of life.
And that's the thing that's what we do.
A lot of times we go into what'scomfortable and to what we
know versus what we could do.
And I think that ultimately is whatwe have to, realize when we're in
our chaos is that while right now,it may not feel like it's good.
(19:44):
One day, Sunday will come, resurrection ofour purpose, our joy will come, and when
it does, we can finally look back at thischaos and go, Oh, it was a good Friday.
That's a great analogy, actually.
And a lot of people don'tthink of Easter like that.
They think of Easter as thechocolate eggs and things like that.
(20:06):
They don't actually see the true meaningbehind it and what that's actually
telling us and showing us and, a lotof our subconscious is conditioning.
That's on automatic.
And so when you talk about nostalgia, thatcan be synonymous with all we see is the
mountains that we have to try and overcomeand it's, and the fear around that.
(20:27):
So it's really our perception thatchanges that because often what we fear
many times, like a large percentageof the time, never comes to, to pass.
So talk to us about the role of fear inpeople's lives and how that impacts them.
fear can be dangerous becausewhen you're in fear, it's it
(20:51):
goes to the fight or flight.
Inside of us and that's what makesit scary because, fleeing the scene
is also, never good because you couldbe run away for something that could
eventually be, so great for your future.
So that's why fleeing is not alwaysthe answer, but, obviously fighting
is not always the answer either.
And, but for fear, there's, It'sresting in the fact that you
(21:18):
believe that good's coming your way.
And, I don't want to sound too preachy,so I'm trying to put it a different way.
As Christians, it's okay, I know thatGod's got this and it's holding onto that.
That makes it easier.
If you're listening to this andthat's not your background, it's
just believing though that thingswork out for good, as a whole.
(21:40):
And that's what we see.
It's just, we can see the worst of, inmy book, let me just put it this way.
Let me simplify it.
In my book, I looked at, ViktorFrankl, which was a Holocaust survivor.
And when you think about, obviouslythe Holocaust, there was nothing good
about the Holocaust, but in the endat the backside of things, Victor
(22:03):
Frankel went on to do wonderfulthings in the psychology realm.
And he built a life forhimself and for his family.
And that alone shows you that in themoment, it's not holding onto what's
happening in the here and now it'sbelieving that good's coming our way.
(22:25):
Yes, that's what hopeis all about, isn't it?
It's that belief that there islight at the end of the tunnel, that
there is something better ahead.
And like you say, when we getstuck in our past, we get stuck in
our past we're looking backward.
We can't see the light going forward.
We've got our back turnedto that almost, haven't we?
(22:48):
So it's actually, yeah, so it'sactually shifting ourselves
and our perception to trust.
Now there's a big word to trustthat things can be different.
So how do we start to do that if we'veknown nothing else except chaos in
(23:10):
our life, because some people from themoment they enter this world live very
chaotic lives, there is nothing safe,secure, stable about what they know.
So how do you then start to allowa person to see and know that
(23:33):
there is light, there is hope?
It's first off, it's going to be, it'sgoing to take believing and looking at
other victories in the same area as towhich you're experiencing that chaos.
And what I mean is, for me, when I wasincarcerated, I could Google, it can be
(23:54):
your best friend and your worst friend,friend and that same with illness, right?
I can Google why my finger is hurting, andthen three steps later, I find, I think.
Google's telling me I'mgonna die in 24 hours.
And so it can be harmful in that sense.
But there's also some it's beingspecific on what you're researching
(24:16):
and what you're looking toward.
For me, I thought that being incarceratedmeant that I could never do, do
big things and to be successful.
And so I started researching peoplewho have been incarcerated, who
have done good things and bigthings that have been successful.
And I held onto thosestories to go, oh, okay.
(24:38):
It is possible.
It is, an option if I, fight for it.
And if I lean into it, andit's the same with lupus.
It was like, okay, I can't.
It's, there's no cure for lupus.
So I have it, this is the end, butthen realizing, Oh, no, you can
be, you can have a normal life ifyou eat better, if you exercise.
(25:01):
And so it's okay, let me dothose things and lean into that.
And so whatever your chaos is, it's,doing your research and finding people
who have been successful outsideand have overcome that overwhelming
in that field of your own chaos.
So that way you have that hope toknow that it is possible to overcome.
(25:25):
That is very crucial.
And then leaning in, like Isaid, I love hope, help humor.
So I'll lean into the help part and say,Then lean into, okay, what did they do?
What were some of the steps they took?
I'm an avid reader.
I love reading, a wide varietyof books from, I'll go from
the Bible to, Victor Frankl,
Yes,
(25:45):
the most random thing.
Yeah.
And then like a fiction bookon, zombies, you just never
know what I'm going to read.
But I love, so many different genres andI love reading, but I also love learning.
And it's taking the time to researchand go, this is not the end of me.
This is truly, no matter how clichethis sounds, this is the beginning.
(26:10):
This is my moment to say, this iswhat I've, these are the cards I've
been dealt, but this is how I'm goingto take it and I'm going to, to win.
And so it's leaning into it by researchingyour situation and go, what can I do to
overcome and be like people that havegone through what I've gone through
(26:30):
and for the listener listening to thisthinking, my chaos has gone on for so
long and for, for Joseph, what I mentionedin the Bible earlier, Joseph, his life.
from the pit to the palace,that was 13 years of his life.
It was not instant.
And in the world we live in, whereeverything's so instantaneous and,
(26:52):
you're on one side of the country,Helen, and I'm on the other, right?
I mean, there's one side ofthe world right now, I'm on
the other side of the world.
Everything's so instantaneous.
And we think going from painto purpose is instantaneous.
No, sometimes it takes 13 years.
I'm sorry, but that'sjust the reality of it.
And, one time I was on a trip and we'reon the side of this mountain and it
(27:14):
started pouring down rain so hard that,we were afraid to fall off the cliff.
And so we just stopped because therain was so heavy we cannot see in
front of us, behind us or besideus, but then the storm led up.
And we could see again, sowe could drive forward again.
And so for the listener listening tothis, who thinks that chaos is just
(27:37):
a downpour on them and they can't seearound them and they're just stopped
right now and they're stuck, I canpromise you one thing, the storm will
eventually let up, you will be able tosee again and be able to go forward again.
So just hold on.
And I love that you said, search for thenuggets in the worst of your situation.
(28:01):
So like when you were incarcerated,a nugget was being able to go on
Google and search out these peoplethat were inspiring you to get
out of the situation you were in.
And that's it, like it's a, yin and yangtype situation where there is a duality.
There is a balance, with the good,there comes bad and it's just balancing
(28:24):
it all out and being able to shiftyour perception so you can see.
both sides of it and howthey're affecting you.
I wanted to talk about some of thepeople that you mention in your book,
Chaos Overcoming the Overwhelming,because that is a, a collaboration.
You describe it as a collaboration ofreal people experiencing real pain.
(28:48):
Can you share some of thestories that, you cover in there?
Yeah.
Oh,
anonymity, I obviously changed the names.
And but what we do is we look in throughthis book about how, because the word
chaos comes in many different forms.
I didn't want people to think, oh,this is a prison book, or, oh, this
is a book about the loss of his dad.
(29:08):
I wanted people to see, that stories,this hope part, like we were just
talking about that, hey, look, this ishow someone turned their bad into good.
And for example, I talk about,when I was 16, I had a friend of
mine who, died in a car crash.
And his, one of our favorite things todo every summer was like this summer
(29:30):
camp we went on, and his dad, who wasa firefighter, by the way, and was
the 1st person, 911 is the number herein the States when they called and
he was the 1st person on the scene.
He did not know he was pullingup on his son's car accident.
(29:51):
He had no idea.
So he opens the truck and he, ourother friends in the vehicle, they
survived, but he opens the truckdoor and he finds his son there as
he's, his son takes his last breath.
And, it's easy to, of course, gothrough the steps of grief and he did.
We all do.
(30:11):
There's nothing wrong with that, but heeventually got to the point where he has.
I remember how much my son lovedsummer camp and how much of a joy it
was for him every summer to do that.
And my son may not beable to go to summer camp.
Anyone, anymore, but I wantother kids to be able to go.
(30:32):
And so he opened up a foundationand he started sending other kids to
this summer camp that we would go to.
And so that's the, from pain topurpose that I discuss in the
book, those sorts of moments whereit's just so beautiful to see.
Another girl.
I know, Her boyfriend was always,uh, physically abusing her and
(30:56):
eventually she kept going back to him.
It was a long drawn out situation,but eventually she got out of it
and now she helps other women whohave been stuck in domestic violence
scenarios and that's what she's doing.
And that's her full time job.
Now that's all she does.
And it's, that's what's so cool.
(31:18):
And that's for even me, like what we'redoing with this book is we provide
copies of this book, every book sold.
Is it?
None of that money goes to me.
It all goes to providing copies ofthis book inside prison libraries and
rehab centers because we are adamantabout making sure that people find
(31:38):
the hope and the help they need.
To get through, I put it this way isthat I want to be the brightest of lights
for people in their darkest of pits.
And that is what that's what thisbook is about is to say, hey, if
this is your story, boom, if this isyour story, boom, here's examples.
(32:00):
You don't have to stay, if you lost yourson, it doesn't have to be a summer camp
moment, but lean into 1st off, knowing.
that there will come a day whenit's not ever fully over, but it's
easier, and to lean into that andgo that there is a way to take this
pain and find purpose in it all.
(32:21):
But also too, I talk about stories.
There was my neighbors whose, dad, passedaway due to COVID, in the height of the
2020, with all of COVID and his, one ofhis daughters was a senior in high school.
So she was about to graduateand, two months he died.
And then two months later,she's supposed to graduate.
(32:41):
And so it's just moments like that.
But I talk about that in my bookand I say this story right here.
Is not finished being written yet.
It's still being written right now.
I don't know what, his daughter'sgoing to do, but I know it'll be good.
And that's another thing for the,for you listener who maybe you feel
(33:04):
like, okay, my chaos just happened.
Friday just happened.
I'm in my Saturday seasonbecause Sunday hasn't come yet.
And you're in that Saturday.
My, my best.
hope I can give you is to know that yourstory is still being written and that
you just have to trust the author towrite an ending so epic it's going to
(33:27):
inspire not only you, but it's going toinspire everyone who sees your story.
Oh, mic drop there.
That is so beautiful.
So inspiring.
Truly, truly.
How are you describing this?
What you're saying is whatresonates with people.
It's a ding ding moment.
When somebody listens to this,they can see themselves in the gut.
(33:48):
Ah, so I'm on my Saturdayand Sunday's still coming.
Yeah.
I had an incident I'mgoing to share with you.
I phoned my daughter and it turned outit was two minutes before her accident.
So my initial thought was like, Ohmy goodness , I caused her accident.
I was devastated.
(34:09):
And then I was able to shiftthat around to say, How lucky
am I that I got to speak to her
Wow.
Yeah.
Before she died and we just shifted into anew home and she just she was so excited.
She just set up her bedroom and she'sgot mom go check out my bedroom, and
(34:29):
so those are the things I remember.
So I could focus on, oh mygosh, did I distract her?
Well, actually I drove for twominutes, that's a long distance,
I didn't cause her accident.
But in that initial, when I firstheard about it, I just thought,
oh, and I could have stayed there.
Oh,
it,
yes.
(34:50):
I feel you on that.
It's the shoulda, what coulda,shoulda, woulda, those moments.
And realistically that word shift,it's so funny when I first got out of,
being incarcerated, I ended up gettinga job at a very popular hotel chain.
And three weeks later, just the frontdesk, three weeks later, they made me
the general manager, which is crazy.
(35:10):
And then I moved into director ofoperations for this, very popular
hotel chain all across the world.
And I was doing some really coolthings, but that's something I would
always teach my general managersis that when people come to you and
they go, why, they're complaining,why is the hot tub not working?
You sh the word shift is always the focus.
I tell them, I'm say, I'm sosorry our hot tub is down.
(35:34):
But, our pool is heated, like you.
Shift their focus to something else.
And a lot of times I've learned thatin chaos too, is it's to shift it.
It's to say, this happened, butthen shift it and go, you know what?
I'm grateful that I have a home, somewherewhen I first got out, for example, the
(35:54):
beds being locked up were so small and Icould complain about the craziest things
and I go, well at least I have a fullmattress to sleep on tonight at my house.
At least I have freedom.
It's shifting the focus, in those moments.
I talk about, I've just done thisoffering and I, one of the letters
is dedicated to gratitude because,I thought I knew about gratitude.
(36:19):
I thought I was a grateful personuntil I really started practicing
gratitude every single day of my life.
Writing down what I was grateful for,three to five things every morning.
And it was simple things like here I am,I've got hot water to have a hot shower.
I've got a roof over my head, thesun's pouring through the windows.
(36:42):
How grateful am I that I have thatwhen there are people in war torn
situations or in countries where,you know, just getting water doesn't
matter about it being heated, butjust getting water is a huge mission.
And.
the power of gratitude and shiftingyour mindset to be aware of each and
(37:07):
every day, what is happening for you.
So I'm so grateful.
I got my laptop, a new laptopup and running, ready for
this interview, like that.
Oh gosh.
I just thought there's nothing I could doabout what had happened, but let's just
give it some grace and give it some time.
And what will be.
And here we are.
(37:28):
Oh,
a quote the other day.
It said something, I'm going to paraphraseit because I don't remember it verbatim,
but it was something on the lines ofwhat if you woke up in the morning
and you only had what you were saidyou were thankful for the day before.
And.
(37:48):
Yeah, it got me because I was like, howmany times do I actually say I'm thankful
for my house thankful for my vehicle?
What if I woke up the next day and Ididn't have any of those things then
I would start going Oh, yeah, I guessthey were something to be thankful for.
Yeah,
Yeah.
So I'm grateful for the 18 years Igot to have with my beautiful girl.
(38:10):
Like people say, yeah, she died too young.
Well, yeah, that, that'sa reality I can't change.
But what I can change is like, how luckywas I that she graced my world and gave
me these beautiful memories and events.
And, it's again, that shift.
It's a shift in how youchoose to look at it.
(38:31):
Are you feeling lost, anxious,unsure of how to navigate the
loss of your beautiful loved one.
I don't know where to head next.
Yeah, I get that.
Then you may be interested in A Letterof Hope and Aroha to help you find
out who you are right here and now.
And how you can navigate that withoutbeing on that emotional roller
(38:53):
coaster feeling out of control.
That's a feeling I really dislikedafter Tahl and then Adrian died.
So I've developed an eight weeksupport program where each week you
get an email of what worked for me.
As well as other tried andtrue tools to help with grief.
It's a beautiful calming, meanhealing resource that I think
(39:16):
you're really going to like.
And that you can use in youreveryday life to find out what
works for you and what doesn't.
And the great thing is you findyourself feeling stronger and more in
control, so you can work out what youwant life to look like going forward.
So with this sounds like somethingyou would like to check out, head
(39:37):
over to my website, or check outthe link in the episode notes, you're
looking for A Letter of Hope & Aroha.
Can we explore, Noah,loneliness a bit more?
Because although we're living in theage of technology and have access to so
much, I believe we've created so manymore lonely people because of this that
(39:59):
are disconnected from having real, liverelationships and connections with others.
I think loneliness hits me thehardest when I talk about different
forms of chaos And it's simplybecause I believe there's two things
people want all across the world.
They want to be seen,they want to be heard.
(40:21):
And when it comes to loneliness,it takes away the whole, someone
being seen, someone being heard.
And that loneliness state is very hardto get out of because it's something
that like every day the lonelinessis, it feels like you're digging
(40:42):
just a deeper, deeper, deeper pit.
And it's harder to get out of.
And even if it's not on purpose.
It's not that people that arelonely going, Oh, I'm lonely.
And they're digging furthercause they want to be miserable.
Sometimes it's, that'sjust what loneliness does.
And it's really important, forlisteners to understand how crucial
(41:06):
it is to find your community.
In fact, I was talkingto someone the other day.
They told me they had no sort of addictionin their life, but I said, that's okay,
but you don't want to go to church.
That's fine.
But I recommend finding a,Alcoholics Anonymous is here.
What we call them in theStates, like the AA meetings.
(41:27):
I said, go to one.
And they're like, why?
I don't struggle with alcoholism.
I said, go becausethere's community there.
There's people who will go.
I said, you'll meet people that are just,first off, they're the most gracious
because they go, I have a past of my own.
So I'm not going to judge you foryours first and foremost, but secondly,
to they also know what it feelslike to be lonely and so they're
(41:50):
going to welcome you in and just go.
Sit, eat some cookies with them, hang out.
And, so I recommend that for people allthe time, but that's something that we
have to be the most combative when we arein a season of loneliness, that's the most
combative we ever have to be is to fightthat loneliness and to find community.
(42:15):
That's one thing I'm, as a Christian,I believe so wholeheartedly that the
enemy is against is us finding community.
And, in the Lion King, haveyou ever seen the Lion King?
yep,
that's what Scar does to Simba.
Simba is watches his father die.
And because Scar knows, okay, now thatMufasa's out of the picture, Simba is the
(42:38):
heir to the throne, and there's nothingScar can do to change who gets the throne.
So what he does was he tells Simba,he puts him in an identity crisis
of going, Hey, you're a murderer.
You're a failure.
And then he gets Simba torun from his family and his
friends and to get him secluded.
(43:01):
That was the whole goal of, Scar.
In fact, it was him and the hyenas.
They were like, should we chase him?
He's no, he'll die.
He'll die in the wilderness alone.
That was what Scar wanted for Simba.
And I think a lot of times, no matterwhat led us to that season of loneliness,
you have to understand it was.
(43:23):
In some ways, a group oflions is called a pride.
And I thought it was ironic thatin some ways it was Simba's pride
who took him from his pride.
But it's going back home.
It's going back home and maybe notto literally your, physical mom and
dad home, but going back home to yourcommunity and finding that connection.
(43:46):
Those people that can lift youup instead of tear you down.
It's a lot easier, of course, tofind people that will tear you down
and lift you up, but it's beingvery, aware that, okay, I'm lonely,
but I don't want to stay this way.
And then being proactive,
I love that term, finding your tribe,because your tribe represents those
(44:09):
people that get you, where you don'thave to explain, they're just there, they
understand, there's no judgment there.
And like you say, whatever it takes,just find those people, gravitate
towards them, , because they willbe the ones that, will help you.
We'll help lift you up andprovide that light for you.
That's the beautiful.
Yeah.
(44:30):
The other thing I want to have a chatwith you about is, we're often looking to
the outside for validation of ourselvesfor acceptance and, to overcome, we
think that it happens on the outside.
I'm a great believer that we haveeverything we need within us.
What are your thoughts on that?
(44:50):
Okay.
This is, this is a great seguebecause since we just talked about
the Lion King, but so here you haveSimba and he thinks he's a murderer.
He thinks he's a failure.
He goes off, Hakuna Matata with two, twoof his friends and then, that he meets.
And then it was still, he wasstill not ready to go back home.
(45:12):
He still considered himself the murderer.
Of his father.
He still had those thoughtsand that's what chaos does.
It leaves us in that identity crisiswhere we start to believe that we are
what we've done, or we are what someoneelse has said about us that happens a
lot on social media right now, becauseit's so easy to just leave a comment.
(45:36):
And people don't understand therepercussions of that a lot of times.
But, I digress on that one,but the, it was for Simba.
He woke up the moment he lookedup in the sky and his father
goes, Simba, remember who you are.
And that's when he woke up.
And I think for us, we have to stop andremember who we are, because when you're
(45:59):
incarcerated, every moment of every day,they're telling you, come here, inmate,
there, here's your number, give me yournumber one, one, one, and it's, it wasn't,
I'll remember when I first got out, theofficer was taking us somewhere and he
goes, Hey, you're no longer an inmate.
And I just sobbed.
Because one, I was thankful, butthen I was like, who am I now?
(46:24):
How do I find out who I am?
And it was like relearningwho I truly was.
And I think that the same istrue when it comes to divorce.
A lot of times, relationships,they'll split and you're left going,
I wonder if I would have, lost weight.
If I could have kept, mypartner, those sorts of things.
(46:45):
We question all of these, these ideasof who we are, but who we should
have been what we could have beenfor our, our partner or for our life
to not go down this path of chaos.
But.
At the end of the day, it all comesback to remembering who we are.
So yeah, I agree.
It's inside of us.
(47:06):
And if you ever seen Lion King onBroadway, the song says, he lives in you.
That's what it is, though.
It's inside of us.
It lives inside of us.
And it's, it is leaning intothat and going, you know what?
I'm no longer a lost cause.
I am a found child andit's holding on to those.
I'm a great believer that we wereall born perfectly imperfect.
(47:31):
That there is no accident.
We are who we are experiencingwhat we are experiencing.
And we just need to navigateand find our way through that.
And like you say, just keep,pointing north, finding that north
star, that purpose, that hope,that light, that happiness, and
that, because that is our journey.
(47:53):
I, believe all the restis just superficial.
But once, once we find our purpose,everything seems to just fall into place.
You just, you're just, I would say,Noah, that I bet you couldn't walk away
from what you're doing now because youknow so much that this is your purpose.
(48:14):
This is your passion.
This is what you need to be doing.
No matter how tough itis some days for you.
Would I be
would, Most definitely.
And what's funny is this is notwhat I thought my life would be,
nor what I wanted my life to be.
And, but then I had to go, Icannot change what has happened.
(48:36):
So I'm going to shift.
I'm going to go, what is it?
Is the silver lining, the excelsior,that moment where I lean into
that and I go, I'm going to nowfind out how I can help others.
And that's why I'm so adamant aboutsaying with your pain, there's purpose.
And then it builds a platform for you.
(48:57):
And that's what I'm living in rightnow is that, that platform part where I
can share with others, just like you'redoing Helen, you're sharing with others.
But it doesn't happen overnight.
It takes a time.
And when I was locked up, I neverthought, I'll just hang in there.
One day I'll be on podcastsall the way in New Zealand.
(49:17):
I was never the focus thinking thatsomething like that would happen,
but now I'm adamant about lettingpeople know who are sitting in
their cell right now to go, what.
I can one day sit on a podcastwith people from New Zealand.
It's just, it's having that momentof going, I can do these things.
I've seen others do it.
(49:38):
And if he or she can do it, I can do it.
Absolutely.
Yeah, it's providing that hope for people,first and foremost, but I'm very grateful.
It's a lot easier for me tobe grateful with my situation.
Like I said, the food was horrible.
So if I go to a restaurant and I havebad experience, like a bad experience,
(49:58):
I go, it's better than prison food.
So it's a lot easier for mein some ways, but no, it's,
I am very grateful every day.
That I get to do what I'm doing nowand it would not have happened if I
didn't go through my season of chaosand, now in my book, I talk about how,
the third section of the book is calledThe Aftermath, and it's okay, once the
(50:20):
storm dissipates and the enemy retreats,a lot of times we're left with rubble.
We're left to rebuild.
And, for me, I sat on this book,Chaos, for a while going, and sat
on my purpose for a while going,I'm not going to publish, I'm not
going to start doing all this untilI feel as if I have fully rebuilt.
(50:41):
And then I was like, dude, you'renever going to be fully rebuilt.
You're always growing.
You're always rebuilding.
There's always going tobe something to be done.
And so I realized, no, I'm the rebuilds.
I need a beat to do what I'm doing now.
And then we'll work, we'llworry about the rest later.
And so that's what I leaned into.
(51:01):
Yeah, that's book two.
But no, it's so important.
And I tell people that all the time.
It's just like when someone'swho is an addict, who's I'm
not recovered, I'm recovering.
And, that's the same about re with loss.
When I lost my dad, there's ahole that will never be filled by
(51:22):
him again on this side of, life.
And because of that, it goes,I'm never fully rebuilt, but I'm
rebuilding or I'm never fully healed.
I'm healing and it's making sure peopleunderstand that, because there's that.
Yeah, and there's good days and baddays, just like there's, I talk, I use
(51:46):
the storm a lot, analogy a lot in thisbook, but I feel like chaos is that
downpour, that tsunami sort of moment,but that doesn't mean when you're
rebuilding, you don't still experiencea little rain showers along the way.
Or the rainbows.
Yeah, there's somebeautiful rainbows for sure.
(52:06):
Yeah, you don't get thoseunless you've had the rain.
That's so true.
Yeah, and and I'm the way I look atlife now too, since losing my daughter
and then, a partner, new partner.
I just look at it that, I, I'mblessed every single day because
out of the worst has come a lifethat I never knew could exist.
(52:28):
Yeah.
It's better in so many waysthan I could ever have imagined.
And that's the flip side.
That's what we don't often see where we'regoing into, but if we stay the course and
just keep taking one step after another,That's where we end up and it's beautiful.
It's beautiful.
(52:49):
Hey, Noah, fabulous conversation, mate.
Just absolutely wonderful.
So what is it that we haven't coveredthat you would like to leave our
listeners with before I finish upwith a couple of questions for you?
I more than anything listener I justwant you to understand something.
You will get through this.
(53:09):
That's what I want you to understandis you will get through this.
There will turn.
There will be a turning pointin your life where you'll go.
You know what?
Friday was good because of Sundayand you're going to look back at
this moment and go, it, it wasn'tgreat, but it was good in the sense
of what came out of it in the end.
So hold on and know that thestorm will dissipate and you will
(53:34):
be able to see forward again.
Oh, perfect.
Noah, what is the best thing thathas happened to you so far today?
Today.
Ooh.
I got this photo hanging behindme, . I got that put up finally.
That, and then I am finishingup my, one of my degrees and
(53:54):
then I'm working on my master's.
And I just hit the send buttonon one of my final papers.
And then, yeah, and thenI am also finishing a new
book and I just got through.
I think.
Some of the most raw, the rawest,realist chapter I've written yet.
(54:15):
And so I'm very thankful.
great.
And for the listeners, the picturethat he's alluding to just before
that he pointed to, that obviouslyyou couldn't see is, the picture
with the word chaos on it.
It's an umbrella.
There's a big rain cloud with rain pouringdown and it's being sheltered with the
umbrella and it's a pretty cool picture isvery simplistic, but so much depth to it.
(54:42):
It's all of the words.
It's the, it's my cover of my bookand it's all the words of chaos.
And it feels like it'sraining down upon you.
And so you're going to seethose words like rejection,
like loneliness, like loss and
Anxiety, and just different ways andchaos, comes and the way it feels
like it's just pouring down upon us.
It.
(55:02):
Good picture.
Okay, what is something thatyou are most grateful for?
Through all that I've been through,I, talked early about my family and,
my mom who still lives in the samecity I live in, through all the chaos
we've been through and with the lossof my father, it's been a time for us
(55:25):
to connect and grow in a deeper way.
And she's a big part of my life.
She texts me earlier.
She said, you want to get dinner?
And I'm like, yes, let's get dinner.
So those moments to be able to have that,it's that shift focus to go, man, I'm sad
that I lost my dad, but it's shifting andgo, I'm so thankful that I have my mom.
Yes, yes, yes.
(55:47):
We have an expression here in NewZealand that when things are not
going so well they turn to custard.
How do you pivot out of momentsthat are looking a little bit
on the darker side for you?
What do you do?
Do you have any go tos?
When things are going south.
Yeah,
to pivot out of them?
Is there anything you do?
(56:10):
Humor.
Humor's a big part of my life.
I like for me, even when I write,my book is has those funny moments,
but then it just boom, the reviewsall say, we'll laugh and then
we'll cry in the same chapter.
And that's the story of my life.
I feel like that's me in a nutshellis laughing and crying in the same
day in the same moment sometimes.
(56:30):
But I turn on, the office is a bigpart of my life, a TV show called
the office, that, and, just any,anything with comedy, I love to
turn on and just take myself away.
Another thing I do is music.
It's just for me as a Christian though,I choose like praise music and, it's
taking that moment and just shiftingand saying like, all right, got it.
(56:54):
This, I'm praising you for this.
I'm praising you for that.
And then before you know it, you'relike, wow, what was I upset about?
Yeah, exactly.
It's lifting your energy, isn't it?
Yeah.
Powerful.
Powerful tools.
Thank you for sharing those with us.
Noah, how can people reach you?
If you go to my website,my socials are on there.
Everything starts at the website.
(57:15):
That's my hub.
It's, uh, thenoahasher.
com.
Great.
And I'll have the links to yourwebsite in the episode notes and that.
I just want to thank you,Noah, for taking this time.
I know it's your early evening there.
So I'm very grateful that you've takensome time out of your evening to come and
(57:37):
talk to me today and to share your storyof overcoming so brilliantly yourself.
I mean, how you've pivoted yourlife from, where you were to
where you are now is truly.
the inspiration for so many andthe provider of hope for so many.
And yeah, a privilege toshare your story and have you
(58:01):
much.
I love what you're doing and it's soimportant for people to understand,
whether they look at my chaos or yoursand go, if they made it, I can make it.
So thank you for what you're doing.
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