June 26, 2024 • 61 mins
How are you parenting yourself in your grief?
Are you giving yourself the same advice you would give your child?
Sometimes we get so mired in our experience we can forget to take a step back to see the big picture.
In this final episode of Season 6, I speak with Ashmeeta Rama, a resilience and grief support advocate, expert, author, and founder of the Growth Story Hub. Ashmeeta shares her profound journey through intense grief, having faced multiple losses including miscarriages, rejection, and the loss of her parents and husband. She discusses how experiences and self-talk shape our emotional responses and reality. Highlighting the power of gratitude, empathy, and self-forgiveness, Ashmeeta emphasizes the importance of embracing our grief and finding empowerment through it. Join me as I delve into navigating grief, the significance of self-parenting, and Ashmeeta's mission to help others realize their worth and potential through storytelling.
Ashmeeta's Bio
Ashmeeta Rama Madhav is an educator, resilience and grief support advocate/expert, entrepreneur, author, and lifelong learner. She has been intimately acquainted with grief since her early twenties, having experienced miscarriage, rejection, and the loss of her parents and husband, which exposed her to a range of profound emotions.
She is the founder of Growth StoryHub; an organization created to inspire and empower individuals who have lost a loved one (suddenly or to a terminal Illness) and are feeling stuck, overwhelmed, numb, and vulnerable.
At the heart of her book, "What’s Your Story?" is her passion for helping others and sharing her experiences.
Through her book, she shares her journey through grief and self-discovery intending to provide comfort and inspiration to those confronting similar experiences.
Ashmeeta's desire is for others to recognize that profound loss need not signify the end of one's story; rather, it can mark the commencement of a new and meaningful chapter. Her story is one of love, acceptance, forgiveness, gratitude, growth, and self-discovery. Her mission is to share the knowledge she's gained through her experiences with others to empower the grieving. Her message is one of hope and healing, and she is here to help gui
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
There was time back, I think in mytwenties or early thirties, where
I had gone to a workshop, wherethey were talking about, , how our
experiences, actually become part ofour very being and our emotional system.
And then they like triggers after that,once that intense emotion becomes part of
(00:22):
your very being, then in the future, asyou live your life, when you experience
something, those triggers are broughtup again, and then you react in the very
same way that you did the very firsttime you had a sort of an experience.
So that in itself wasan eye opener for me.
And as, as I worked withthat, I realized how my
(00:44):
thoughts were holding me back.
And it's all that self talk and that kindof stuff that I was doing with myself,
that was, controlling how I behave
(01:07):
Just to heads up that this is thefinal episode in season six, and
I really appreciate your support.
We'll be back with many more incrediblepeople with their inspiring stories
in August when we launch season seven.
So I hope you'll be able to joinme and until then, just take really
(01:28):
good care of you and know that you areloved and never alone in this journey.
What's the story you tellyourself about your grief?
That it's not fair?
You don't understand why it happened, thatyou could have done something to change
the outcome, that life is just not worthliving without your loved one, or it
(01:51):
could be any number of variations on thosethemes, or something entirely different.
However, the story you are tellingyourself is the difference between
being moored in a safe harborto ride out your grief, or the
feeling of being set adrift, facinginsurmountable wave after wave, feeling
overwhelmed and unable to move forward.
(02:13):
My guest today on the BeautifulSide of Grief, Ashmeeta Rama.
knows what it's like to beadrift in intense grief.
She's been through the ringersince her early 20s, having
experienced miscarriage, rejection.
the loss of her parents and her husband.
She has had a lot of emotionsto work through and in doing so
(02:35):
discovered the profound impact ourthoughts have on shaping our reality.
And she's going to sharethat research with us today.
Ashmeta exudes love, acceptance,forgiveness, gratitude,
growth and self discovery.
She is a dedicated resilience andgrief support advocate and expert,
(02:56):
entrepreneur, author and lifelong learner.
And she's the founder of the GrowthStory Hub, an organization created to
inspire and empower individuals who havelost a loved one, either suddenly or to
terminal illness, and who are feelingstuck, overwhelmed, numb, and vulnerable.
(03:16):
I just know this episode is goingto resonate with so many of you.
So let's get into it.
Ashmeeta, wonderful to haveyou share your journey.
and wisdom with us today.
Hi, Helen.
I'm so happy to be here toshare my experience with grief.
And I'm just going to say your last nameagain, because I feel like I mucked it up.
(03:38):
So it's Madhav.
It's Madhav.
Madoff.
Madoff.
Okay.
Madoff.
All right.
Sorry.
Okay.
Thank you.
I just think it's nice totry and get the name right.
I appreciate that.
You're
welcome.
All right.
So where shall we start?
(03:58):
Because you've been through so manydifferent types of grief, I would love
to start with you sharing with us howeverything began to unfold for you
in your early twenties, the differenttypes of grief you experienced, and
then let's just take it from there.
Sure.
(04:19):
In my early twenties, when I experienced,rejection and miscarriage and that kind of
stuff, at that point, I guess my mindsetwas very different to what it is today.
At that time, it was like,why is this happening to me?
Everything's, everything's wrong with me.
Why is Everybody else is,this doesn't happen to others.
And even if it does, they seem to be fine.
(04:39):
Why me that mindset and that mentality.
And also the mentality of, feelinglike I'm a victim and I'm not worthy.
How come others can, maybe have a baby ornot be rejected or had not have the kind
of experiences that I had when I was thatage, And getting stuck in that narrative,
(05:03):
in my mind, kept me there for a fair,amount of time before I actually realized
after doing a lot of self discovery andreading books, meditation, I've always
been interested in meditation and yoga andnatural healing and those kinds of things.
So as I ventured out onto these variousdifferent paths and, educated myself
(05:27):
about that, these various differentthings, I slowly started realizing
that, something's different, I,the world around me still goes on.
Things are still happening, yetI still feel the way I feel.
So I was on the brink, at the verybeginning stages of understanding or
(05:49):
even getting to, Understand that yourthoughts actually shape your reality.
What do you think of yourself?
The self talk that you do withyourself on a daily basis, based on
any experience that you have actuallyshapes your reality in so many ways.
Our minds are so powerful.
Our thoughts are so powerful.
(06:10):
Our feelings are just as powerful.
And all of that put togethercreates your reality.
That is what I know now, as I waswalking this path and going through it
in my twenties, it was like, no, okay.
I guess I'm just destinedto have this type of a life.
I'm not worthy of anything.
I don't deserve to be loved or have asuccessful marriage or have a kid or, all
(06:35):
those crazy things that I had in my head,which when I look back now, I'm like,
wow, if I had only known what I know now,back then, I would have stopped myself
from being my own worst enemy, becausethat's basically what it boils down to.
Isn't hindsight such a wonderful thingthat we can look back and say, if I,
only knew what I know now back then.
(06:57):
Where do you think all those selfdoubts, feelings of not being worthy?
Because I feel like so many of us,are going down that path, and we may
be conscious of it or we may not be.
Like I thought I wasdoing everything right.
Why does this keep happening to me?
What is it about me?
Where did that start for you?
(07:19):
I think it's all just slowlystarting to unfold for me now.
Especially I think that my biggesthit, I've been hit every single time I
experienced a loss in different ways.
But this time when my husband passedaway four years ago after .Struggling
with pancreatic cancer, And whathappened, the life that I've been living
(07:42):
for the last four years, just trying tounderstand what this means in my life,
at this point in my life, has broughtme to realize something very important.
And that is, as human beings, we all, weneed to have other people in our lives.
We are social beings.
(08:04):
We're not meant to live in isolation.
Okay, we can I'm not saying wecannot and there's nothing wrong
with living in isolation, but wethrive when we are with other people.
And the other thing that is important is.
Like young children, they lookfor validation from people that
(08:25):
they find important in their life.
And as we are growing,we become young children.
Teenagers are looking forvalidation from their peers.
As you get older, when you'rein the workforce, you're looking
for validation from those peoplewhere it really counts, right?
So in a family structure aswell, we're all looking for that
validation, a sense of belonging.
(08:46):
Where do we belong?
And, when somebody that you love so muchor somebody close to you, a spouse or
a parent or sibling or whatever it is,somebody that you had that real close
connection with, somebody who understandsyou, somebody who can do something for
you without you even saying, I need this.
Someone who has your back is what alot of people, they say these days.
(09:09):
Somebody who has the, has your back,who knows you in and out kind of thing.
When you lose that person in your life.
It just totally throws you off.
It totally makes you feel disillusioned.
That's how I felt.
I don't know if everybodyelse feels that way, but I can
definitely speak from my experience.
So that, just pushes you into that space.
(09:32):
Just feeling that sense ofvalidation is so important.
And when you're grieving, when you don'tget that validation, It is so easy then to
go into a depression or things like that.
But the beautiful side about thewhole thing is if we know this
information up front and we're awareof it, then we know what to expect.
(09:54):
Okay.
I'm expecting to feel this way.
There I go.
I'm actually feeling it right now.
That awareness, knowing, okay,I'm actually feeling like I need
this validation from somebody.
Nobody's giving it to me.
Nobody can give it to me.
It's not, because it's a grayarea we walk with when you're
People don't know how to support you.
You don't know how to, whatkind of support you want.
(10:16):
You do want people involved, butyou don't want people involved.
It's, so it's, and it's so uniqueto each person because we're
walking this path that is a journey.
It honestly is a journey once embraced
can turn out to be such a beautifuljourney that takes you on this path where
(10:37):
you learn so much about life, the meaningof life, the true meaning of life, of
relationships, and of who you are andwhat it means to actually be human.
Okay, you just mentionedthe true meaning of life.
What does that mean to you
(10:57):
?To me, what the true meaning of life basically means is I am human.
I am alive and I have the abilityto love and to give, and the only
way we get anything in life is bygiving and expanding ourselves so
(11:21):
that we can have, that that empathy.
Embracing empathy and havingempathy, gratitude and
forgiveness be part of your life.
So any interaction that you havein this world with anyone should
come from a space of empathy,gratitude, forgiveness, awareness,
All of this other, you just find thatyou're living on a whole different plane.
(11:45):
You don't have to find yourself caught upin petty little, Oh, you did that to me.
Oh, the, yeah,
Yeah, that forgiveness is so important.
I know I struggled with that formany years of my life, and it's not
about forgiving the other person.
It all comes down to yourself,and you being able to let those
(12:07):
situations go, allow, that to havehappened and not to carry it into
the here and now every single dayof your life and into the future.
And I think that was abig realization for me.
It wasn't about the other person.
It was all about me andwhat I needed to do.
So as soon as you put expectationson people, you're probably
(12:29):
going to be disappointed becausethey have their own journey.
You have yours.
They have theirs.
Let them walk theirs and you justconcentrate on doing what you need to do.
Yeah.
Yes, I fully agree withthat, I agree with that.
And I'd like to add to that isthat let them walk their journey.
You walk yours, but also include thatempathy and that gratitude into it.
(12:54):
Because it's not a competition.
It is not a competition, wedon't need to criticize anyone,
we don't need to judge anybody.
But if you can help somebody whois, and if they would accept the
help, then, give it to them.
But if they don't want to accept thehelp, then that means they're not ready.
You can't force them.
(13:14):
It's the same like with children,when my husband passed away,
my kids were 7, 14, and 16.
Oof.
And, each one of them in their ownspace and, their personalities and the
developmental age that they were atthat given time were in different space,
(13:35):
different, it was just so different.
I'm glad that, I had done researchand I, read into this kind of stuff.
And I just decided to meet them wherethey are, each one in their space.
And it was different.
It was really taxing because what Ido with one kid is not going to work
with the next kid or the next kid.
(13:55):
So I'm doing three different things withthree different children, at the same
time, while trying to manage my grief.
And that is where the whole expectationthing comes in is I had to remove
expectations out of the equation.
I am not going to expect my kid.
I decided, I said tomyself, it's that self talk.
I told myself, I am not going to expect.
(14:17):
If I get a certain result out of oneof my kids because I am doing something
to help them as they're going throughthis grieving process, I'm not going
to expect the same from the next kid.
So important.
And it is paying offnow, four years later.
It's going to be five years this October.
It's slowly starting to pay off now only.
(14:38):
So it's a process.
we've got to just have to keep thecommunication channels open, give
that empathy, and just keep talkingand meet people where they are.
It's this whole idea of meetme where with, give me what I
need, not what you think I need.
Give me what I think I need.
And if I don't know what I need,help me figure out what I need.
(15:02):
But it's not about you.
It's about me.
So I was just thinking aboutthat because, often in grief,
we don't know what we need.
We think we do.
And then when we get it, we go,Oh . And so how do we go about
working out what it is we need?
(15:22):
From my personal experience, I knowthere were times where I would think
to myself, I keep saying this over andover again, grief is a lonely place.
I have to be honest, and there are timeswhere, I wish with all my heart that the
life that I led, the interactions thatI had with people before my husband died.
Could have been maintained after hedied as well, but they all dissolved and
(15:44):
disappeared, for no, no valid reason.
They just disappeared.
It just, and it's no, it'sa two way thing, right?
There's no,
Yeah.
(16:16):
Nothing to read between any linesthere, but it's the reality of the
way things are.And I always wonderedto myself, you know, I'd like to have
that but when I think of where I amright now and how I feel and how my
emotions are so like rollercoaster upand down and the one minute I do want
somebody near me to sit and consoleme or talk about the person and then
the next I don't , I do, I do need theperson that I lost and things like that.
And then.
After a little while, I'mlike, I'm uncomfortable.
I don't want to talk about this anymore.
And I actually don't want you toshow me that much of affection.
I appreciate having the support.
I appreciate knowing thatsomebody is there for me.
I reach out when I need help.
(16:37):
And if I don't reach out, I appreciatethat you at least check in with me.
You see how it can be very confusingfor a person on the other side?
It's what does this person want?
I'm trying to be there for them.
And they not, and then if that persongives you too much space, then that
space becomes something that, it'sjust too much space and then it's
(17:00):
okay, I don't even know you anymore.
And we don't have anything,to talk about anymore.
So it's okay if we don't talk.
Yeah, those are all really valid.
And as you were talking, I was rememberingthose same scenarios that I went through
myself with each of those, let's.
Let's talk about something that,is very real to those who are
(17:25):
grieving deeply and intensely.
It's like after you meet all thoseinitial milestones of, working through
that person passing, organizing theirfuneral, going through all of that,
and then shortly after that it seemslike life goes on for everybody else.
(17:47):
But you're still stuck where youare not able to move forward.
Did you find that yourselfand how did you navigate that?
I most definitely found that each time,my mom died, when my mom passed away, I
felt that when my husband passed away andtwo years ago, when my dad passed away
(18:09):
as well, I felt the exact same thing.
My relationships, the intensity of myrelationship with each one of these
people who passed away was very different.
They meant differentthings to me in my life.
But yes, I, just navigating that wholefeeling of, life went on for the world.
The world kept spinning.
It's as if nothing happened.
(18:30):
It's as if I also felt at times, it wasas if my parents or my husband never
existed because nobody talks about them.
Yes.
And I felt like I was imagining this,sometimes your mind plays tricks on you
and it's did this person really exist?
I know for a fact, this person existed.
Why is nobody talking about them?
I want to talk about them.
I want to, it's my wayof remembering them.
(18:51):
The more I talk about them,no, it's big, funerals done.
Everything's done the morningperiods over life has gone on.
Everybody's gone back to their thing.
And here I am, I'm stuck.
And to me, it is everything because thesepeople had such close impact in my life.
(19:11):
So yes, I'm stuck.
This new reality thatI'm forced into is what?
So I had to do a lot of thinkingand, trying to navigate that has
taken a lot of self talk and analyzinga lot of my thoughts and feelings
and living more in the moment.
(19:34):
As I said earlier, grief islike a rollercoaster, right?
Some days, and I actually just hadthat one of those rollercoaster things
this morning, woke up feeling reallylike down and, Okay, I went to bed
feeling just fine and woke up thismorning feeling really no energy.
Why is this?
This is not fair.
I'm already five years in.
(19:55):
My mom's passed away almost 15years ago, but I still have this.
What?
It's not fair.
I don't have my mom.
I would, I wish I had her now becausethere's so many things that I needed
to ask her to get her advice on andthere's nobody else that can give me the
kind of advice she would have given me.
So that's when I stoppedmyself in my tracks.
(20:16):
Okay, I'm going to stopshooting all over myself.
The past.
is the past, it is history, it hashappened, leave it where it belongs.
Do not bring it into the presentmoment, is what I say to myself.
So if you leave the past in thepast, You can think about it
(20:40):
now and then, but that's all youneed to do is think about it.
Don't allow it, or don't allowany thoughts from the past to
control your present moment.
And the best way to practice livingin the present moment is Gratitude.
Gratitude is so powerful.
It has been a life changer for me.
(21:00):
It has saved me so many ways.
Every time I'm feeling down, every time Ihave these thoughts come into my mind that
makes me feel like, Oh, you're a widow.
Nobody's going to want tohave anything to do with you.
Yeah.
Oh, it's amazing.
The weird conditioned, weird belief.
I don't even know where someof these thoughts come from.
I'm like, I don't really believe that.
(21:20):
Where did this thoughtcome from in my mind?
But I guess it's society, it's movies.
It's, it's life, whatever you've beenexposed to somehow molds your thoughts.
But is that really me?
Is that who I truly am?
Is what I asked myself.
And no, I don't believe these thoughts.
Yes, I may be a widow, but thatdoesn't mean my life comes to an end.
(21:42):
And when I practice gratitude, the wayI would practice gratitude for that
is to maybe, not maybe, but to remindmyself, I have had the opportunity
to be married, to, to have an amazingmarriage for whatever, an amount of time.
I'm grateful that I had that opportunityat least, I know what it feels like
(22:03):
to be loved and to love someone.
And thank you, just thankyou for at least having that.
Ah.
That's so powerful, isn't it?
And that was one of the pivotal thingsthat I used after my daughter died, was
(22:23):
yes, yes.
or felt like I was spiraling into thatdark place, that's what I used to do,
was say, okay, what am I grateful for?
Right here, Right now in this moment.
And it may be just the simplethings as like having a roof over
my head and the sun shining, and itdoesn't have to be big and complex.
(22:45):
It's a real basics, itjust lifts your energy.
Doesn't it?
It absolutely does.
Seriously, try it.
Anyone listening out there, try it out.
It's absolutely, I'm bought on that.
I'm
on that.
Sold on that.
I do it daily becauseit's been so powerful.
And do you know what?
(23:05):
I thought I knew about gratitudebefore my daughter died.
I thought, yeah, I'm a grateful person.
I know about gratitude.
Not in the same way that I startedto practice it after she died.
That just took my lifeto a whole new level.
It's just like it juststarted to part those clouds.
(23:28):
And for me to be able to seelife through a different lens
and what had happened to me.
Yes.
Yes.
So let's look at another aspectthat is often really pivotal when we
experience an intense grief event andthat is like life no longer seeming to
(23:51):
have meaning or being the same again.
Did you experience this?
And if so, what did that, howdid that impact you and what
did that look like for you?
My very first experience withdeath was when my mom passed away.
And the type of relationship that I hadwith my mom, she was my best friend.
(24:12):
Aside from just being my mom,she was also my best friend.
So it was a re it played,it really knocked me.
And I remember, at the time I hadmy, both my older kids who are 20 now.
But, they were like four andsix years old at the time.
And I was living in a differentcountry altogether to where my
mom was, when she passed away.
(24:33):
And, I remember when I got back afterthe funeral and things like that,
every single day, walking around,doing my shopping, doing, taking care
of the kids, doing whatever it is.
It was just, I had thisit's a weird thought.
I don't, I think I knowwhy it came into my head.
It's because my mom died, but thethought was, what's the point of this?
(24:54):
I'm going to die anyway.
So I walked around when I was doingmy shopping, when I was cooking,
when I was taking care of thekids, no matter what I did, this
thought was at the back of my head.
So it drove me and drove theway, the quality of the way
I did things and my life.
At that time.
(25:15):
So my husband at the time had noticedbecause he noticed a change in me,
Not the same anymore.
And, he went on to saying that he'strying really hard to support me.
And I knew that he was.
I could see that he was reallytrying hard to support me and he
was very supportive in, whateverworked to help me feel betteR.
(25:37):
but he was at a crossroads.
So he said, it's I am trying everythingthat I know to help that, so I could help
you and support you and be there for you.
But I realized something very important.
And that is, there is no way I'm goingto be able to understand how you feel.
(25:57):
Because I've not lost a parent beforeI, I, I don't know what it feels like
to lose a, lose someone you love andsomeone you feel that connected to.
And that in itself was an eye openerfor me because it shifted the quality
of our interaction then, because itmade me realize at that moment that he
(26:23):
is trying, he's doing the best he can,
I have to take, I haveto put in extra effort.
So that I can help him to helpme, and I can help myself as well,
So we,
doesn't know.
so can I just ask, were you expectinghim to understand the depth of your
relationship with your mother and theconnectedness and how that was now
(26:45):
impacting you with the loss of that?
I was expecting him to understand becausehe knew how close I was with my mom.
So I was expecting him to be supportive.
But when he made that statement, itknocked me out of that, off those tracks
that I was on, and pushed me onto a wholedifferent track that made me realize, no,
I cannot be expecting this out of him.
(27:07):
He's doing the best that he can.
But I'm grateful for that becausethat pushed me onto a path where
I then started doing a lot of selfdiscovery and asking every time, why
do I have this thought in my mind?
Why do I feel like thereis no reason to live?
I had that thought for at leasta good few years in my mind.
(27:28):
I kept, it definitely changedthe quality of my life.
I felt absolutely there'sno point in any of this.
Why should I even bother or putany effort into what I'm doing?
I'm just going to go through the motions.
And that quality of that kind oflife is not really a quality life
because life is so precious lifeis so precious and I think what
(27:55):
really, we all know life is precious.
Those words are, self explanatory, right?
But to get the true meaning of what itmeans when life, to say and to feel what
it means, what that statement means
came to me when my husbandtook his last breath,
Oh.
I was holding his hand.
(28:17):
And, the lady at the hospice had saidto me, they, they explained to me, I
learned something new about the, whenthe body is preparing to die, what
happens and all of that kind of stuff.
I didn't know all this information before,who looks at, who even educates themselves
about this kind of stuff, right?
But, here I am, I find myself in thissituation, and they, they're giving you
(28:38):
all the support, and they're explainingthings to you, they're trying to
prepare you and help you so that themore information you have, the better
equipped you are, and yes, there I am,sitting there, I My husband's going
into this conscious, unconscious kindof state, so you know, his breathing
is changing slowly over the hoursand minutes and that kind of stuff.
(28:59):
I'm holding his hand the wholetime, sitting and praying and, the
nurse comes into the room and shesays to me, she sits next to me
and she's so how are things going?
I'm telling her what Inoticed and things like that.
She says, yes, we're getting close.
It's, time's getting close.
And she took my attention.
She took my attention for a moment
(29:20):
to a family picture on the wall and shemade a comment, you know, you look so much
younger now than you do in that picture
ut?
So I glanced at the picture.
In that split moment is whenhe took his last breath.
(29:41):
When I look back, I saw himstill, I'm still holding his hand.
And this was like within five seconds.
And, she, and so I was like, Oh, so ishe doing one of those things again that
you explained to me where, the, the,he just holds his breath for a bit and
then suddenly start breathing again.
And she looked at me and shesaid, no, my dear, he's gone.
And oh my God, I was, I, the amount ofthe mixed emotions that ran through me
(30:10):
at that moment, I cannot explain, I'mactually starting to feel it right now.
Oh my God, excuse me.
But that is.
When I look back and I think ofthat moment, I realize, and it just
knocked me, life is so so so precious.
(30:30):
This is an opportunity that wehave to make something beautiful.
So what are we going to do about that?
How are we going to makethis life beautiful?
I think both you and I have been throughenough of these experiences to know
that and to see that because that isexactly what I wanted people to know.
(30:52):
It's like we are not guaranteed anything.
And so we just have to make themost of each and every day, the
tough times, the good times.
We just have to make the most of everysingle moment we have because we don't
know what is around that corner for us.
,Correct.
So correct.
(31:13):
Are you feeling lost, anxious,unsure of how to navigate the
loss of your beautiful loved one.
I don't know where to head next.
Yeah, I get that.
Then you may be interested in A Letterof Hope and Aroha to help you find
out who you are right here and now.
And how you can navigate that withoutbeing on that emotional roller
(31:35):
coaster feeling out of control.
That's a feeling I really dislikedafter Tahl and then Adrian died.
So I've developed an eight weeksupport program where each week you
get an email of what worked for me.
As well as other tried andtrue tools to help with grief.
It's a beautiful calming, meanhealing resource that I think
(31:58):
you're really going to like.
And that you can use in youreveryday life to find out what
works for you and what doesn't.
And the great thing is you findyourself feeling stronger and more in
control, so you can work out what youwant life to look like going forward.
So with this sounds like somethingyou would like to check out, head
(32:19):
over to my website, or check outthe link in the episode notes, you're
looking for A Letter of Hope & Aroha.
So how did you then get on to reallyunderstanding the impact that our
thoughts have around how we'rethinking and how that is going to
(32:41):
change the moment that we're in,especially in these difficult moments.
As I said, over the years, I have actuallybeen practicing this with myself and it's
been like more than 10 years There wastime back, I think in my twenties or early
thirties, where I had gone to a workshop,where they were talking about,, how our
(33:04):
experiences, actually become part ofour very being and our emotional system.
And then they like triggers after that,once that intense emotion becomes part of
your very being, then in the future, asyou live your life, when you experience
something, those triggers are broughtup again, and then you react in the very
(33:24):
same way that you did the very firsttime you had a sort of an experience.
So that in itself wasan eye opener for me.
And as, as I worked withthat, I realized how my
thoughts were holding me back.
And it's all that self talk and that kindof stuff that I was doing with myself,
(33:48):
that was, controlling how I behave Soif somebody, let me think of an example.
If maybe somebody behaved a certainway with me, or someone did not behave
a certain way with me that I expectedthem to behave with me, their actions
push me into a situation where I amfeeling bad, but just before that whole
(34:10):
experience took place, I was fine.
I was happy.
So something doesn't make sense here.
How is it that your environmenthas so much control over you?
So what, am I a puppet?
It's what I used to think to myself,things around me are controlling me
and it's always, you It's, you feellike you're this yo, and there was a
(34:33):
book that I read a long time ago, byLouise Hay called, Power or The Powers
Within or something of that sort.
I
yes,
Yeah.
The Powers Within or something.
Yes.
Yes.
I found that book to be, I thinkthat was one of the first books
that I read that gave me a littleinsight into like thoughts and your
emotions and, those kind of things.
So it has been a long timethat I've been practicing this.
(34:56):
It's been and keeps evolvingas I have more experiences.
But the gist of the whole thing is.
Stopping myself when I have a thought,analyzing that thought, is this
helping me or is this going to harm me?
Is this thought goingto help me or harm me?
Okay.
Someone did something.
(35:17):
Do I really need this thought to,okay, this is what I think of thoughts.
Thoughts are like visitors.
Sometimes you have the craziestthoughts come in your mind.
You don't even know where they come from.
So if you associate them with visitors,you get an unexpected visitor.
How do you treat that visitor?
We always treat our visitors politely.
Hi, how are you?
(35:38):
Welcome.
Offer them a cup of tea, whatever it is.
Entertain them for a bit and then bye bye.
Do the exact same thing with the thoughts.
If I need this thought, if this isgoing to help me, if this is going
to help me improve, evolve, get, getcloser to my goal, help me become a
better version of who I am right now.
(35:59):
Okay.
Yes, let's entertainthis, let's go with this.
If it's not, I'm not going to judgemyself for having that bad thought
because by doing that I'm also puttingmyself down and I'm criticizing myself.
Instead, I would happily say, thank youfor visiting, I'm not sure where you
came from, but Had a good time with you.
(36:21):
Thank you.
Bye.
A thing,
I love that analogy, that is such a goodanalogy, yeah, I might steal that off you.
Sure.
Seriously, it explains it so well.
Just, yeah, sure, that thought's goingto come in, but you choose to close
(36:42):
the door on it or to leave that doorwide open and entertain it some more.
Yeah, great.
That's so good.
That's so powerful.
Tell us now about What's Your Story?
Because this is where yourlife has evolved, hasn't it?
You've moved into, being a storytelleryourself more importantly, allowing
(37:11):
others to tell their own stories.
Share with us the insights aroundthat, that we need to be aware of.
So my book that I wrote iscalled what's your story.
The reason I titled it, that wasbecause, I realized that everything
that we go through life is a story.
(37:31):
All the various different experiences thatwe have in our life is a story in itself.
Two people can be having the exactsame experience, but if you ask them
to narrate it back to you, you're goingto get two totally different stories.
Really interesting stories, andthat is because of our uniqueness,
(37:53):
our genetic makeup, how worthywe feel about just being alive.
And that in itself, is where worthinessis like the fundamental, we each
need to know that we are worthy,I am worthy to be alive, right?
So writing this book was more of a,me telling my story, but it was not
(38:20):
actually about me so much as it is aboutinspiring others to grab that horse by
the reins, grab that story and ventureout onto it and see what they can
learn from their own stories that aregoing on in their lives and the various
(38:42):
different experiences that they'rehaving and the stories like a story
within a story kind of a thing as well.
It's like the story that I'm tellingmyself about, I'll give you an example.
Okay.
So my husband's passed away.
I have three kids.
All I know how to do and allI have done for the last 20
years now, yes, I'm educated.
My field is early childhood education.
(39:04):
That's my passion, but I've workedon and off here and there in that
field, followed my husband aroundthe world because his career was
thriving and his, he was thriving.
So we moved.
Traveled around wherever hiscareer, his job took him.
Somebody had to be the personat home when, if he was
going to be going out, right?
(39:25):
That was me.
Now, he's not around.
What is my story?
What story am I going to tell myself?
What story am I going to createout of this life that I have
in front of me right now.
Am I going to play the victim?
Am I going to, and I can do that easily.
(39:45):
Am I going to play the victim?
Am I going to take this opportunity, takeit as a learning and just take it one
step at a time, do whatever it is that Ineed to do, and as I'm going remind myself
that I am learning, there is nothingwrong with me, not to judge myself.
(40:06):
So self-care, I callthat parenting myself.
So I do a lot of that myself.
Recently, I've been doinga lot of parenting myself.
The way I parent my children, the wayI'm so empathetic and understanding
and observant and all of those goodthings that a parent does for their
children, I decided to turn it aroundand offer some of that to myself,
(40:27):
instead of expecting it from the world.
Nobody knows what I need and theintensity to what I feel like I need it.
So I'm like, okay, yes, I'm grieving.
I need somebody when I need somebody,not when somebody needs to be,
feels they need to be there for me.
So that dependency is, yes, weneed people, but I will keep that
(40:49):
space and make that look different,make that a different experience.
But I'm going to start parenting myself.
I'm going to start caring for myselfin all different aspects of, exercise,
food, emotionally, mentally, everything.
I'm going to be kinder to myself, empathy.
Those kinds of things.
So in the same way, that'sthe story that I am now, I've
(41:16):
decided that I am going to go on.
That's a story that I'm creating, andI'm going to see how this unfolds, as
opposed to another story that I couldhave went down, I'm a victim, feel
sorry for me, it's the end of the world.
I'm I'm young.
This is not fair.
This should have not happened to me.
Justifiably, nothing wrongwith that story either.
(41:38):
What choice do you want to make?
And that is where I, and my mission andmy goal is to help people to go down that,
and I love to get into discussions withanyone who would like to, have that sort
of open this topic up and talk about itand explore how through conversation and
through sharing experiences, we actuallyhelp ourselves, but we also help others.
(42:04):
And actually, we help others more thanwe help ourselves when we share our
stories and speak in an authentic,open minded way, embracing, this
reality that we've been exposed to.
Wonderfully put, and I feel that sometimeswhen we actually have to speak something
(42:27):
out loud, we actually hear what we'resaying, what we're telling ourselves,
because sometimes when we're not doingthat, we think we're thinking a certain
way, but our words, when we speakthem, are telling something different.
And yeah, and sometimes you need that to
(42:50):
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
That is powerful.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's incredible work that you'redoing and I think it's so needed
because, like you say, I think justthe fact that we're here on this
earth makes us worthy of being here.
We are all unique, we all have our ownset of experiences and circumstances that
(43:14):
dictate the path that we are walking.
And it's nobody else's businessto determine whether that's
the right path or wrong path.
It's just what we decide is rightfor us and what we want to explore.
I know that some people are totallyhappy, stuck in their grief.
(43:35):
And I'm, I certainly wouldnever pass judgment on that.
If that is where they want toremain and that is feel that is
where they feel they need to be.
Yes, by all means stay there.
But it's only, I think your missionand my mission is to help people
(43:57):
realize that there are choices.
That dreadful things can happen toreally good people and not so good
people, but to really good peopleand that we all have a choice.
And, that is what my daughter.
Taught me very early intoour grief journey together.
(44:22):
She would say, you've got fiveminutes to have a pity party.
Oh
party, and then you'regonna get over it, Mom.
Because, I love you.
I'm wrapping you in this love,and you're important to me, we're
gonna get back on that horse again.
And, I get on it, I fall off,get kicked off, whatever.
(44:42):
yes.
I just kept taking a step forward,till eventually, I'm free.
I found that peace and that calm andthat happiness again, and it lives in
beautiful harmony with me missing thatbeautiful girl in real time here and
now, being sad, all of those things.
(45:03):
So I think that's a key point, isn't it?
It's just getting to that point wherewe can live in harmony with all that is.
Yes.
Just that acceptance that,life and death go hand in hand.
And, just on a tangent there, just,I'd like to mention this, but, I had
been doing a lot of thinking aboutwhy do I feel so much a grief that
(45:27):
my mom is not around, or my husband'snot around, or my dad's not around.
And something that came to me was thelevel of attachment that I had to them.
And then also, they were alive.
Physical bodies were alive, right?
So now that is the past.
It's You know, yes, they stillAnyway, I'm not gonna go into
(45:52):
that side of the whole thing.
But just that attachment of Myattachment to them is what keeps
me stuck in that grief also
Such a good point.
So if I can just detach myselfby detaching myself doesn't mean
(46:12):
that I've forgotten them doesn'tmean that I love them any less.
It's just me detaching myself fromthat attachment That, that connection,
that, not connection, wrong word,yeah, just that sense of I'm attached.
And attachment to me is morealong the lines of some form of
dependency, some level of dependency.
(46:34):
It could look different in different,for different, relationships.
And once I put that intoperspective in my mind.
I miss them for what they meant in mylife, to me, and the value they brought to
And just that beautiful relationship,that give and take between, say
(46:56):
for instance, my mom and myself.
That relationship, the dynamic of thatrelationship between her and myself.
Same applies to my latehusband as well, and my dad.
The dynamic of that relationship.
I miss him at the most important timesbecause of the way he was, he made
a big deal about special occasions.
He would go out of his way, even if hedidn't want to do what you wanted to do.
(47:19):
And it was your birthday, hewould, be like, and he wouldn't
even show any of his end do ups,he'd be like, you want to do that?
Sure.
Let's go.
I'm happy.
Let's go do this.
Because he made it all about you.
So that.
in itself is I miss that.
I don't have that in my life anymore,
(47:40):
Gosh, you're making me tear up!
Stop it!
but it's a memory.
And it's also a learning.
It's a learning because he set a standard.
So if I look at it from that pointof view, he set a standard of the
level of commitment and the levelof quality that you need to, or what
(48:01):
you need to do to have this kind of arelationship, this kind of a connection.
Yeah, selflessness.
Yes.
So because I was exposed to that, likeeven with my mom, because I was exposed
to the level of relationship that I hadwith her, my standards are like, I'm
trying to strive for those standards.
(48:22):
And I
think each one of us unconsciouslyare actually doing that
whether we realize it or not.
in our grief journey, I don't knowwhether this happened for you, you can
see I'm excited about this, is that weforget to stop for a moment and look
(48:44):
back and see just how far we have come.
Often we think we're still back in thoseearly days, yet we've actually done a
lot of work and gone through a lot ofexperiences that have taken us forward.
And we don't always realize thatactually, yeah, it still hurts like
(49:06):
crazy, but we are doing okay good job.
We have managed to get throughall these different milestones and
we need to congratulate ourselvesand give us ourselves a pat on
the back for that, especially in,
Empathy and gratitude, back to that.
and compassion.
(49:27):
Oh,
Yes,
so let's talk about, I wantto finish up because I realize
we've just romped through
through this hour that we've had together.
It just feels like five minutes andhere it is nearly an hour on . But
you've got a Grieve and Grow Challenge.
Tell us about that because I thinkthat is a beautiful way for us to
(49:50):
start winding down this conversation.
So I did put this challenge out there.
It's called the grieve and grow challenge.
They're very, variousdifferent aspects to it.
The idea behind it is to choose oneof those and then to show yourself
doing for example, I am, thrivingin my grief and celebrate remembering
(50:15):
my loved one, but I'm still thriving.
So maybe documenting that in some form,maybe a picture or, something to that
effect, and then posting that on to,Instagram, tagging people that you
know, would benefit from it as well,and maybe encourage them to also maybe
take on this challenge and do that.
(50:36):
And with that, the more people whoget involved in it, when we look at,
I was just curious to see how manypeople would actually do this and
how would they feel after doing thiswhen you see all the other people who
decide to actually interact as well.
(50:56):
And when you look at that, it's, AndI've had this experience many times
and what brought that up was becauseof the various podcasts that I've
been speaking on and people thatI've been speaking to about grief.
I noticed every time we end, it'ssuch, we're talking about grief.
And stereotypically, it would be like,you would think you're having the most
(51:17):
morbid conversation under the sun.
But, amazingly, that isnot the experience at all.
And, we just end up having sucha beautiful conversation and so
empowering that it makes you feellike, we don't need to be stuck here.
Let's help each other.
If I have something that can helpyou feel just an inch less stuck
(51:42):
than you are feeling, that is good.
So quickly run through the three E's forus that you use as the cornerstone around
this because I think they are wonderful.
so the three E's basically, whichI practice myself, and I remind
myself when I'm feeling down as well.
It's, embrace, and
(52:04):
Empower, evolve.
So embrace is basicallyto embrace your reality.
To embrace.
And what if I don'twanna embrace my reality?
That is fine too, because you'reembracing the fact that you don't
wanna embrace your reality, right?
It's choice.
But embracing
whatever is going on right now, whateverit is that you're feeling, whichever
(52:28):
way it's going, just embrace that.
And then finding ways to empower yourself.
And I have various different toolsthat I've put in my book, about
ways that you can empower yourself.
Gratitude is number one on my list.
And evolution is somethingthat is just natural.
That's going to automatically happenonce you find ways to empower yourself.
(52:52):
And when you do find ways toempower yourself, the universe
also sends help your way.
I really do believe that because thinkthat has happened to me so many times.
Sometimes I didn't even realizethat it was actually happening, but
so embrace and power evolve.
(53:13):
Yeah.
Three simple words that are so powerful.
And yeah, it's not asking anybodyto be anything other than what they
are, but actually there's a lot ofenergy behind them and I think it's
the energy that . , creates shifts.
(53:34):
Whether we're aware of them or not.
Alrighty, I want to wrap upour conversation with three
quick questions I ask everyone.
What is the best thing that hashappened to you so far today?
Or going to happen, because Iknow you've got something planned.
The best thing for me is I'm justreally passionate about my children.
(53:57):
And today my middle son iscelebrating his 20th birthday.
And yeah, so that'sspecial to me 20 years ago.
Yes, it's his birthday, but as amother, and I think mothers as
mothers, we I don't know if othermothers feel this way or not, but I
kind of realized that I may becelebrating my child's birthday and
it is all about them, but 20 yearsago, I gave birth to this human being.
(54:23):
It's not me.
I didn't create him,but I was the process.
I was the channel that allow,this human being came through.
And I'm just, amazed at just life, theway it comes into this world and the
way it unfolds and then the experiences.
Yeah.
(54:44):
So life is beautiful.
It's what you make.
I wish him a very happy 20th and I hopeyou have a wonderful time together.
What is something thatyou are most grateful for?
What am I most grateful for?
This is going to sound absolutely,I can't even believe I'm going
(55:07):
to say this, but here goes.
I'm grateful for every singleexperience that I've had in my life.
If I had not had those experiences,and believe me, as I was going through
them, I felt like this is not fair.
But, excuse me, without those experiences,I don't think I would be where I am today.
(55:35):
And I'm just so grateful for notjust the experience, but also all
of the books, spiritual leaders,support, all of that good stuff that
comes with it, that came my way.
And this information age thatwe live in, where information so
easily available, readily available.
(55:56):
And those strangers that came intomy life when I really needed support.
Total strangers offeringme unconditional support.
So I'm just utterly grateful.
And I just cannot express thelevel of gratitude I feel for that.
What a beautiful answer.
(56:18):
Absolutely beautiful answer.
I just, I felt you.
I nearly was in tears myself whenyou were talking about that because
I could feel the emotion that,that you were delivering that with.
And yes.
Oh gosh, that just wentstraight to my heart.
What's your go to when, and we havean expression here, when your day
(56:42):
turns to custard, when you're havingmoments that are a little bit darker,
how do you pivot out of those?
I stop myself in my tracks,and I tell myself, all is well.
I put my hand on my heart, I take a deepbreath, and I tell myself, all is well.
(57:04):
And I repeat that to myself a fewtimes, even if I need to, just
lightly tapping at my heart as well.
Just reminding myself, all iswell, everything is unfolding
the way it's supposed to.
I don't need to havecontrol over anything.
Accept my present moment right nowand this present moment is precious.
(57:27):
So what am I going bringing that choiceand the gratitude and forgiveness go hand
in hand there, it's like you're practicingboth at some, in some level, right?
So I'll bring that in as well.
I'm grateful that I'm here.
I'm grateful that I actually have atthis given moment, have the awareness
that I need to stop and do this formyself because I couldn't have, maybe
(57:49):
I wouldn't have had the awarenessthat I need to stop and do this
center myself and that's okay too.
There's nothing wrong with that, butif, I'm grateful for that as well.
Oh my God, I go back to gratefulness.
I know I was expecting that
I knew that was going to comeout somewhere along the line.
(58:12):
it sounds beautiful.
It sounds, I, for those people who donot have a regular practice of being
grateful, I just want to share with you,and Ashmeeta, I know you will agree with
me, just the power behind that practice.
It is so life transforming.
(58:32):
And, until you try it yourself and yousee the magic that, that comes from
it, it really is a real life changer.
So I recommend you go give it a goif you're not doing that already.
Oh, and this moment is that we're havingright now, Ashmeeta, is so precious to
(58:53):
me, to have this opportunity to speakto you, to have you openly share your
heartbreaks, but also all the good thingsand the beautiful things that have come
out of your heartbreak when you weretalking about not regretting anything
that you've experienced in this life
(59:17):
I think that too has, is whathas got to meet to this point.
And so I so relate to that and to havethe opportunity to speak to people
like you and to share your stories,I consider an absolute privilege.
And so I want to thank you so much.
(59:37):
So we're going to have all the linksof how people can contact you, how
they can get hold of your book.
How they can, go check outyour Instagram, all of that.
We're going to have thosein the episode notes.
Any final parting thoughtsthat you would like to share?
Firstly, I feel, I'm justgoing to say grateful.
(01:00:00):
I am absolutely grateful thatwe've had this conversation
and really feel a connection.
It was just such a beautifulconversation and I'm just so absolutely
grateful that we're able to do this.
and my parting note, I wouldsay experiences, teach us.
(01:00:21):
Don't let experiences define or destroyyou, take them in that light of them being
a teacher and draw the positivity outof it and embrace, empower, and evolve.
Thanks for listening.
(01:00:42):
I hope you got some realvalue from this episode.
If there's a topic you'd likecovered, click on the Beautiful
Side of Grief at gmail.
com link, or go into thebeautifulsideofgrief.
com website where youcan also leave a review.
To get notified of new episodes,hit the subscribe button.
(01:01:02):
And if you know of somebody whocould benefit from this episode,
please share, share, share.
And until next time, please bekind to you and take good care.
There was time back, I think in mytwenties or early thirties, where
I had gone to a workshop, wherethey were talking about, , how our
experiences, actually become part ofour very being and our emotional system.
And then they like triggers after that,once that intense emotion becomes part of
(00:22):
your very being, then in the future, asyou live your life, when you experience
something, those triggers are broughtup again, and then you react in the very
same way that you did the very firsttime you had a sort of an experience.
So that in itself wasan eye opener for me.
And as, as I worked withthat, I realized how my
(00:44):
thoughts were holding me back.
And it's all that self talk and that kindof stuff that I was doing with myself,
that was, controlling how I behave
(01:07):
Just to heads up that this is thefinal episode in season six, and
I really appreciate your support.
We'll be back with many more incrediblepeople with their inspiring stories
in August when we launch season seven.
So I hope you'll be able to joinme and until then, just take really
(01:28):
good care of you and know that you areloved and never alone in this journey.
What's the story you tellyourself about your grief?
That it's not fair?
You don't understand why it happened, thatyou could have done something to change
the outcome, that life is just not worthliving without your loved one, or it
(01:51):
could be any number of variations on thosethemes, or something entirely different.
However, the story you are tellingyourself is the difference between
being moored in a safe harborto ride out your grief, or the
feeling of being set adrift, facinginsurmountable wave after wave, feeling
overwhelmed and unable to move forward.
(02:13):
My guest today on the BeautifulSide of Grief, Ashmeeta Rama.
knows what it's like to beadrift in intense grief.
She's been through the ringersince her early 20s, having
experienced miscarriage, rejection.
the loss of her parents and her husband.
She has had a lot of emotionsto work through and in doing so
(02:35):
discovered the profound impact ourthoughts have on shaping our reality.
And she's going to sharethat research with us today.
Ashmeta exudes love, acceptance,forgiveness, gratitude,
growth and self discovery.
She is a dedicated resilience andgrief support advocate and expert,
(02:56):
entrepreneur, author and lifelong learner.
And she's the founder of the GrowthStory Hub, an organization created to
inspire and empower individuals who havelost a loved one, either suddenly or to
terminal illness, and who are feelingstuck, overwhelmed, numb, and vulnerable.
(03:16):
I just know this episode is goingto resonate with so many of you.
So let's get into it.
Ashmeeta, wonderful to haveyou share your journey.
and wisdom with us today.
Hi, Helen.
I'm so happy to be here toshare my experience with grief.
And I'm just going to say your last nameagain, because I feel like I mucked it up.
(03:38):
So it's Madhav.
It's Madhav.
Madoff.
Madoff.
Okay.
Madoff.
All right.
Sorry.
Okay.
Thank you.
I just think it's nice totry and get the name right.
I appreciate that.
You're
welcome.
All right.
So where shall we start?
(03:58):
Because you've been through so manydifferent types of grief, I would love
to start with you sharing with us howeverything began to unfold for you
in your early twenties, the differenttypes of grief you experienced, and
then let's just take it from there.
Sure.
(04:19):
In my early twenties, when I experienced,rejection and miscarriage and that kind of
stuff, at that point, I guess my mindsetwas very different to what it is today.
At that time, it was like,why is this happening to me?
Everything's, everything's wrong with me.
Why is Everybody else is,this doesn't happen to others.
And even if it does, they seem to be fine.
(04:39):
Why me that mindset and that mentality.
And also the mentality of, feelinglike I'm a victim and I'm not worthy.
How come others can, maybe have a baby ornot be rejected or had not have the kind
of experiences that I had when I was thatage, And getting stuck in that narrative,
(05:03):
in my mind, kept me there for a fair,amount of time before I actually realized
after doing a lot of self discovery andreading books, meditation, I've always
been interested in meditation and yoga andnatural healing and those kinds of things.
So as I ventured out onto these variousdifferent paths and, educated myself
(05:27):
about that, these various differentthings, I slowly started realizing
that, something's different, I,the world around me still goes on.
Things are still happening, yetI still feel the way I feel.
So I was on the brink, at the verybeginning stages of understanding or
(05:49):
even getting to, Understand that yourthoughts actually shape your reality.
What do you think of yourself?
The self talk that you do withyourself on a daily basis, based on
any experience that you have actuallyshapes your reality in so many ways.
Our minds are so powerful.
Our thoughts are so powerful.
(06:10):
Our feelings are just as powerful.
And all of that put togethercreates your reality.
That is what I know now, as I waswalking this path and going through it
in my twenties, it was like, no, okay.
I guess I'm just destinedto have this type of a life.
I'm not worthy of anything.
I don't deserve to be loved or have asuccessful marriage or have a kid or, all
(06:35):
those crazy things that I had in my head,which when I look back now, I'm like,
wow, if I had only known what I know now,back then, I would have stopped myself
from being my own worst enemy, becausethat's basically what it boils down to.
Isn't hindsight such a wonderful thingthat we can look back and say, if I,
only knew what I know now back then.
(06:57):
Where do you think all those selfdoubts, feelings of not being worthy?
Because I feel like so many of us,are going down that path, and we may
be conscious of it or we may not be.
Like I thought I wasdoing everything right.
Why does this keep happening to me?
What is it about me?
Where did that start for you?
(07:19):
I think it's all just slowlystarting to unfold for me now.
Especially I think that my biggesthit, I've been hit every single time I
experienced a loss in different ways.
But this time when my husband passedaway four years ago after .Struggling
with pancreatic cancer, And whathappened, the life that I've been living
(07:42):
for the last four years, just trying tounderstand what this means in my life,
at this point in my life, has broughtme to realize something very important.
And that is, as human beings, we all, weneed to have other people in our lives.
We are social beings.
(08:04):
We're not meant to live in isolation.
Okay, we can I'm not saying wecannot and there's nothing wrong
with living in isolation, but wethrive when we are with other people.
And the other thing that is important is.
Like young children, they lookfor validation from people that
(08:25):
they find important in their life.
And as we are growing,we become young children.
Teenagers are looking forvalidation from their peers.
As you get older, when you'rein the workforce, you're looking
for validation from those peoplewhere it really counts, right?
So in a family structure aswell, we're all looking for that
validation, a sense of belonging.
(08:46):
Where do we belong?
And, when somebody that you love so muchor somebody close to you, a spouse or
a parent or sibling or whatever it is,somebody that you had that real close
connection with, somebody who understandsyou, somebody who can do something for
you without you even saying, I need this.
Someone who has your back is what alot of people, they say these days.
(09:09):
Somebody who has the, has your back,who knows you in and out kind of thing.
When you lose that person in your life.
It just totally throws you off.
It totally makes you feel disillusioned.
That's how I felt.
I don't know if everybodyelse feels that way, but I can
definitely speak from my experience.
So that, just pushes you into that space.
(09:32):
Just feeling that sense ofvalidation is so important.
And when you're grieving, when you don'tget that validation, It is so easy then to
go into a depression or things like that.
But the beautiful side about thewhole thing is if we know this
information up front and we're awareof it, then we know what to expect.
(09:54):
Okay.
I'm expecting to feel this way.
There I go.
I'm actually feeling it right now.
That awareness, knowing, okay,I'm actually feeling like I need
this validation from somebody.
Nobody's giving it to me.
Nobody can give it to me.
It's not, because it's a grayarea we walk with when you're
People don't know how to support you.
You don't know how to, whatkind of support you want.
(10:16):
You do want people involved, butyou don't want people involved.
It's, so it's, and it's so uniqueto each person because we're
walking this path that is a journey.
It honestly is a journey once embraced
can turn out to be such a beautifuljourney that takes you on this path where
(10:37):
you learn so much about life, the meaningof life, the true meaning of life, of
relationships, and of who you are andwhat it means to actually be human.
Okay, you just mentionedthe true meaning of life.
What does that mean to you
(10:57):
?To me, what the true meaning of life basically means is I am human.
I am alive and I have the abilityto love and to give, and the only
way we get anything in life is bygiving and expanding ourselves so
(11:21):
that we can have, that that empathy.
Embracing empathy and havingempathy, gratitude and
forgiveness be part of your life.
So any interaction that you havein this world with anyone should
come from a space of empathy,gratitude, forgiveness, awareness,
All of this other, you just find thatyou're living on a whole different plane.
(11:45):
You don't have to find yourself caught upin petty little, Oh, you did that to me.
Oh, the, yeah,
Yeah, that forgiveness is so important.
I know I struggled with that formany years of my life, and it's not
about forgiving the other person.
It all comes down to yourself,and you being able to let those
(12:07):
situations go, allow, that to havehappened and not to carry it into
the here and now every single dayof your life and into the future.
And I think that was abig realization for me.
It wasn't about the other person.
It was all about me andwhat I needed to do.
So as soon as you put expectationson people, you're probably
(12:29):
going to be disappointed becausethey have their own journey.
You have yours.
They have theirs.
Let them walk theirs and you justconcentrate on doing what you need to do.
Yeah.
Yes, I fully agree withthat, I agree with that.
And I'd like to add to that isthat let them walk their journey.
You walk yours, but also include thatempathy and that gratitude into it.
(12:54):
Because it's not a competition.
It is not a competition, wedon't need to criticize anyone,
we don't need to judge anybody.
But if you can help somebody whois, and if they would accept the
help, then, give it to them.
But if they don't want to accept thehelp, then that means they're not ready.
You can't force them.
(13:14):
It's the same like with children,when my husband passed away,
my kids were 7, 14, and 16.
Oof.
And, each one of them in their ownspace and, their personalities and the
developmental age that they were atthat given time were in different space,
(13:35):
different, it was just so different.
I'm glad that, I had done researchand I, read into this kind of stuff.
And I just decided to meet them wherethey are, each one in their space.
And it was different.
It was really taxing because what Ido with one kid is not going to work
with the next kid or the next kid.
(13:55):
So I'm doing three different things withthree different children, at the same
time, while trying to manage my grief.
And that is where the whole expectationthing comes in is I had to remove
expectations out of the equation.
I am not going to expect my kid.
I decided, I said tomyself, it's that self talk.
I told myself, I am not going to expect.
(14:17):
If I get a certain result out of oneof my kids because I am doing something
to help them as they're going throughthis grieving process, I'm not going
to expect the same from the next kid.
So important.
And it is paying offnow, four years later.
It's going to be five years this October.
It's slowly starting to pay off now only.
(14:38):
So it's a process.
we've got to just have to keep thecommunication channels open, give
that empathy, and just keep talkingand meet people where they are.
It's this whole idea of meetme where with, give me what I
need, not what you think I need.
Give me what I think I need.
And if I don't know what I need,help me figure out what I need.
(15:02):
But it's not about you.
It's about me.
So I was just thinking aboutthat because, often in grief,
we don't know what we need.
We think we do.
And then when we get it, we go,Oh . And so how do we go about
working out what it is we need?
(15:22):
From my personal experience, I knowthere were times where I would think
to myself, I keep saying this over andover again, grief is a lonely place.
I have to be honest, and there are timeswhere, I wish with all my heart that the
life that I led, the interactions thatI had with people before my husband died.
Could have been maintained after hedied as well, but they all dissolved and
(15:44):
disappeared, for no, no valid reason.
They just disappeared.
It just, and it's no, it'sa two way thing, right?
There's no,
Yeah.
(16:16):
Nothing to read between any linesthere, but it's the reality of the
way things are.And I always wonderedto myself, you know, I'd like to have
that but when I think of where I amright now and how I feel and how my
emotions are so like rollercoaster upand down and the one minute I do want
somebody near me to sit and consoleme or talk about the person and then
the next I don't , I do, I do need theperson that I lost and things like that.
And then.
After a little while, I'mlike, I'm uncomfortable.
I don't want to talk about this anymore.
And I actually don't want you toshow me that much of affection.
I appreciate having the support.
I appreciate knowing thatsomebody is there for me.
I reach out when I need help.
(16:37):
And if I don't reach out, I appreciatethat you at least check in with me.
You see how it can be very confusingfor a person on the other side?
It's what does this person want?
I'm trying to be there for them.
And they not, and then if that persongives you too much space, then that
space becomes something that, it'sjust too much space and then it's
(17:00):
okay, I don't even know you anymore.
And we don't have anything,to talk about anymore.
So it's okay if we don't talk.
Yeah, those are all really valid.
And as you were talking, I was rememberingthose same scenarios that I went through
myself with each of those, let's.
Let's talk about something that,is very real to those who are
(17:25):
grieving deeply and intensely.
It's like after you meet all thoseinitial milestones of, working through
that person passing, organizing theirfuneral, going through all of that,
and then shortly after that it seemslike life goes on for everybody else.
(17:47):
But you're still stuck where youare not able to move forward.
Did you find that yourselfand how did you navigate that?
I most definitely found that each time,my mom died, when my mom passed away, I
felt that when my husband passed away andtwo years ago, when my dad passed away
(18:09):
as well, I felt the exact same thing.
My relationships, the intensity of myrelationship with each one of these
people who passed away was very different.
They meant differentthings to me in my life.
But yes, I, just navigating that wholefeeling of, life went on for the world.
The world kept spinning.
It's as if nothing happened.
(18:30):
It's as if I also felt at times, it wasas if my parents or my husband never
existed because nobody talks about them.
Yes.
And I felt like I was imagining this,sometimes your mind plays tricks on you
and it's did this person really exist?
I know for a fact, this person existed.
Why is nobody talking about them?
I want to talk about them.
I want to, it's my wayof remembering them.
(18:51):
The more I talk about them,no, it's big, funerals done.
Everything's done the morningperiods over life has gone on.
Everybody's gone back to their thing.
And here I am, I'm stuck.
And to me, it is everything because thesepeople had such close impact in my life.
(19:11):
So yes, I'm stuck.
This new reality thatI'm forced into is what?
So I had to do a lot of thinkingand, trying to navigate that has
taken a lot of self talk and analyzinga lot of my thoughts and feelings
and living more in the moment.
(19:34):
As I said earlier, grief islike a rollercoaster, right?
Some days, and I actually just hadthat one of those rollercoaster things
this morning, woke up feeling reallylike down and, Okay, I went to bed
feeling just fine and woke up thismorning feeling really no energy.
Why is this?
This is not fair.
I'm already five years in.
(19:55):
My mom's passed away almost 15years ago, but I still have this.
What?
It's not fair.
I don't have my mom.
I would, I wish I had her now becausethere's so many things that I needed
to ask her to get her advice on andthere's nobody else that can give me the
kind of advice she would have given me.
So that's when I stoppedmyself in my tracks.
(20:16):
Okay, I'm going to stopshooting all over myself.
The past.
is the past, it is history, it hashappened, leave it where it belongs.
Do not bring it into the presentmoment, is what I say to myself.
So if you leave the past in thepast, You can think about it
(20:40):
now and then, but that's all youneed to do is think about it.
Don't allow it, or don't allowany thoughts from the past to
control your present moment.
And the best way to practice livingin the present moment is Gratitude.
Gratitude is so powerful.
It has been a life changer for me.
(21:00):
It has saved me so many ways.
Every time I'm feeling down, every time Ihave these thoughts come into my mind that
makes me feel like, Oh, you're a widow.
Nobody's going to want tohave anything to do with you.
Yeah.
Oh, it's amazing.
The weird conditioned, weird belief.
I don't even know where someof these thoughts come from.
I'm like, I don't really believe that.
(21:20):
Where did this thoughtcome from in my mind?
But I guess it's society, it's movies.
It's, it's life, whatever you've beenexposed to somehow molds your thoughts.
But is that really me?
Is that who I truly am?
Is what I asked myself.
And no, I don't believe these thoughts.
Yes, I may be a widow, but thatdoesn't mean my life comes to an end.
(21:42):
And when I practice gratitude, the wayI would practice gratitude for that
is to maybe, not maybe, but to remindmyself, I have had the opportunity
to be married, to, to have an amazingmarriage for whatever, an amount of time.
I'm grateful that I had that opportunityat least, I know what it feels like
(22:03):
to be loved and to love someone.
And thank you, just thankyou for at least having that.
Ah.
That's so powerful, isn't it?
And that was one of the pivotal thingsthat I used after my daughter died, was
(22:23):
yes, yes.
or felt like I was spiraling into thatdark place, that's what I used to do,
was say, okay, what am I grateful for?
Right here, Right now in this moment.
And it may be just the simplethings as like having a roof over
my head and the sun shining, and itdoesn't have to be big and complex.
(22:45):
It's a real basics, itjust lifts your energy.
Doesn't it?
It absolutely does.
Seriously, try it.
Anyone listening out there, try it out.
It's absolutely, I'm bought on that.
I'm
on that.
Sold on that.
I do it daily becauseit's been so powerful.
And do you know what?
(23:05):
I thought I knew about gratitudebefore my daughter died.
I thought, yeah, I'm a grateful person.
I know about gratitude.
Not in the same way that I startedto practice it after she died.
That just took my lifeto a whole new level.
It's just like it juststarted to part those clouds.
(23:28):
And for me to be able to seelife through a different lens
and what had happened to me.
Yes.
Yes.
So let's look at another aspectthat is often really pivotal when we
experience an intense grief event andthat is like life no longer seeming to
(23:51):
have meaning or being the same again.
Did you experience this?
And if so, what did that, howdid that impact you and what
did that look like for you?
My very first experience withdeath was when my mom passed away.
And the type of relationship that I hadwith my mom, she was my best friend.
(24:12):
Aside from just being my mom,she was also my best friend.
So it was a re it played,it really knocked me.
And I remember, at the time I hadmy, both my older kids who are 20 now.
But, they were like four andsix years old at the time.
And I was living in a differentcountry altogether to where my
mom was, when she passed away.
(24:33):
And, I remember when I got back afterthe funeral and things like that,
every single day, walking around,doing my shopping, doing, taking care
of the kids, doing whatever it is.
It was just, I had thisit's a weird thought.
I don't, I think I knowwhy it came into my head.
It's because my mom died, but thethought was, what's the point of this?
(24:54):
I'm going to die anyway.
So I walked around when I was doingmy shopping, when I was cooking,
when I was taking care of thekids, no matter what I did, this
thought was at the back of my head.
So it drove me and drove theway, the quality of the way
I did things and my life.
At that time.
(25:15):
So my husband at the time had noticedbecause he noticed a change in me,
Not the same anymore.
And, he went on to saying that he'strying really hard to support me.
And I knew that he was.
I could see that he was reallytrying hard to support me and he
was very supportive in, whateverworked to help me feel betteR.
(25:37):
but he was at a crossroads.
So he said, it's I am trying everythingthat I know to help that, so I could help
you and support you and be there for you.
But I realized something very important.
And that is, there is no way I'm goingto be able to understand how you feel.
(25:57):
Because I've not lost a parent beforeI, I, I don't know what it feels like
to lose a, lose someone you love andsomeone you feel that connected to.
And that in itself was an eye openerfor me because it shifted the quality
of our interaction then, because itmade me realize at that moment that he
(26:23):
is trying, he's doing the best he can,
I have to take, I haveto put in extra effort.
So that I can help him to helpme, and I can help myself as well,
So we,
doesn't know.
so can I just ask, were you expectinghim to understand the depth of your
relationship with your mother and theconnectedness and how that was now
(26:45):
impacting you with the loss of that?
I was expecting him to understand becausehe knew how close I was with my mom.
So I was expecting him to be supportive.
But when he made that statement, itknocked me out of that, off those tracks
that I was on, and pushed me onto a wholedifferent track that made me realize, no,
I cannot be expecting this out of him.
(27:07):
He's doing the best that he can.
But I'm grateful for that becausethat pushed me onto a path where
I then started doing a lot of selfdiscovery and asking every time, why
do I have this thought in my mind?
Why do I feel like thereis no reason to live?
I had that thought for at leasta good few years in my mind.
(27:28):
I kept, it definitely changedthe quality of my life.
I felt absolutely there'sno point in any of this.
Why should I even bother or putany effort into what I'm doing?
I'm just going to go through the motions.
And that quality of that kind oflife is not really a quality life
because life is so precious lifeis so precious and I think what
(27:55):
really, we all know life is precious.
Those words are, self explanatory, right?
But to get the true meaning of what itmeans when life, to say and to feel what
it means, what that statement means
came to me when my husbandtook his last breath,
Oh.
I was holding his hand.
(28:17):
And, the lady at the hospice had saidto me, they, they explained to me, I
learned something new about the, whenthe body is preparing to die, what
happens and all of that kind of stuff.
I didn't know all this information before,who looks at, who even educates themselves
about this kind of stuff, right?
But, here I am, I find myself in thissituation, and they, they're giving you
(28:38):
all the support, and they're explainingthings to you, they're trying to
prepare you and help you so that themore information you have, the better
equipped you are, and yes, there I am,sitting there, I My husband's going
into this conscious, unconscious kindof state, so you know, his breathing
is changing slowly over the hoursand minutes and that kind of stuff.
(28:59):
I'm holding his hand the wholetime, sitting and praying and, the
nurse comes into the room and shesays to me, she sits next to me
and she's so how are things going?
I'm telling her what Inoticed and things like that.
She says, yes, we're getting close.
It's, time's getting close.
And she took my attention.
She took my attention for a moment
(29:20):
to a family picture on the wall and shemade a comment, you know, you look so much
younger now than you do in that picture
ut?
So I glanced at the picture.
In that split moment is whenhe took his last breath.
(29:41):
When I look back, I saw himstill, I'm still holding his hand.
And this was like within five seconds.
And, she, and so I was like, Oh, so ishe doing one of those things again that
you explained to me where, the, the,he just holds his breath for a bit and
then suddenly start breathing again.
And she looked at me and shesaid, no, my dear, he's gone.
And oh my God, I was, I, the amount ofthe mixed emotions that ran through me
(30:10):
at that moment, I cannot explain, I'mactually starting to feel it right now.
Oh my God, excuse me.
But that is.
When I look back and I think ofthat moment, I realize, and it just
knocked me, life is so so so precious.
(30:30):
This is an opportunity that wehave to make something beautiful.
So what are we going to do about that?
How are we going to makethis life beautiful?
I think both you and I have been throughenough of these experiences to know
that and to see that because that isexactly what I wanted people to know.
(30:52):
It's like we are not guaranteed anything.
And so we just have to make themost of each and every day, the
tough times, the good times.
We just have to make the most of everysingle moment we have because we don't
know what is around that corner for us.
,Correct.
So correct.
(31:13):
Are you feeling lost, anxious,unsure of how to navigate the
loss of your beautiful loved one.
I don't know where to head next.
Yeah, I get that.
Then you may be interested in A Letterof Hope and Aroha to help you find
out who you are right here and now.
And how you can navigate that withoutbeing on that emotional roller
(31:35):
coaster feeling out of control.
That's a feeling I really dislikedafter Tahl and then Adrian died.
So I've developed an eight weeksupport program where each week you
get an email of what worked for me.
As well as other tried andtrue tools to help with grief.
It's a beautiful calming, meanhealing resource that I think
(31:58):
you're really going to like.
And that you can use in youreveryday life to find out what
works for you and what doesn't.
And the great thing is you findyourself feeling stronger and more in
control, so you can work out what youwant life to look like going forward.
So with this sounds like somethingyou would like to check out, head
(32:19):
over to my website, or check outthe link in the episode notes, you're
looking for A Letter of Hope & Aroha.
So how did you then get on to reallyunderstanding the impact that our
thoughts have around how we'rethinking and how that is going to
(32:41):
change the moment that we're in,especially in these difficult moments.
As I said, over the years, I have actuallybeen practicing this with myself and it's
been like more than 10 years There wastime back, I think in my twenties or early
thirties, where I had gone to a workshop,where they were talking about,, how our
(33:04):
experiences, actually become part ofour very being and our emotional system.
And then they like triggers after that,once that intense emotion becomes part of
your very being, then in the future, asyou live your life, when you experience
something, those triggers are broughtup again, and then you react in the very
(33:24):
same way that you did the very firsttime you had a sort of an experience.
So that in itself wasan eye opener for me.
And as, as I worked withthat, I realized how my
thoughts were holding me back.
And it's all that self talk and that kindof stuff that I was doing with myself,
(33:48):
that was, controlling how I behave Soif somebody, let me think of an example.
If maybe somebody behaved a certainway with me, or someone did not behave
a certain way with me that I expectedthem to behave with me, their actions
push me into a situation where I amfeeling bad, but just before that whole
(34:10):
experience took place, I was fine.
I was happy.
So something doesn't make sense here.
How is it that your environmenthas so much control over you?
So what, am I a puppet?
It's what I used to think to myself,things around me are controlling me
and it's always, you It's, you feellike you're this yo, and there was a
(34:33):
book that I read a long time ago, byLouise Hay called, Power or The Powers
Within or something of that sort.
I
yes,
Yeah.
The Powers Within or something.
Yes.
Yes.
I found that book to be, I thinkthat was one of the first books
that I read that gave me a littleinsight into like thoughts and your
emotions and, those kind of things.
So it has been a long timethat I've been practicing this.
(34:56):
It's been and keeps evolvingas I have more experiences.
But the gist of the whole thing is.
Stopping myself when I have a thought,analyzing that thought, is this
helping me or is this going to harm me?
Is this thought goingto help me or harm me?
Okay.
Someone did something.
(35:17):
Do I really need this thought to,okay, this is what I think of thoughts.
Thoughts are like visitors.
Sometimes you have the craziestthoughts come in your mind.
You don't even know where they come from.
So if you associate them with visitors,you get an unexpected visitor.
How do you treat that visitor?
We always treat our visitors politely.
Hi, how are you?
(35:38):
Welcome.
Offer them a cup of tea, whatever it is.
Entertain them for a bit and then bye bye.
Do the exact same thing with the thoughts.
If I need this thought, if this isgoing to help me, if this is going
to help me improve, evolve, get, getcloser to my goal, help me become a
better version of who I am right now.
(35:59):
Okay.
Yes, let's entertainthis, let's go with this.
If it's not, I'm not going to judgemyself for having that bad thought
because by doing that I'm also puttingmyself down and I'm criticizing myself.
Instead, I would happily say, thank youfor visiting, I'm not sure where you
came from, but Had a good time with you.
(36:21):
Thank you.
Bye.
A thing,
I love that analogy, that is such a goodanalogy, yeah, I might steal that off you.
Sure.
Seriously, it explains it so well.
Just, yeah, sure, that thought's goingto come in, but you choose to close
(36:42):
the door on it or to leave that doorwide open and entertain it some more.
Yeah, great.
That's so good.
That's so powerful.
Tell us now about What's Your Story?
Because this is where yourlife has evolved, hasn't it?
You've moved into, being a storytelleryourself more importantly, allowing
(37:11):
others to tell their own stories.
Share with us the insights aroundthat, that we need to be aware of.
So my book that I wrote iscalled what's your story.
The reason I titled it, that wasbecause, I realized that everything
that we go through life is a story.
(37:31):
All the various different experiences thatwe have in our life is a story in itself.
Two people can be having the exactsame experience, but if you ask them
to narrate it back to you, you're goingto get two totally different stories.
Really interesting stories, andthat is because of our uniqueness,
(37:53):
our genetic makeup, how worthywe feel about just being alive.
And that in itself, is where worthinessis like the fundamental, we each
need to know that we are worthy,I am worthy to be alive, right?
So writing this book was more of a,me telling my story, but it was not
(38:20):
actually about me so much as it is aboutinspiring others to grab that horse by
the reins, grab that story and ventureout onto it and see what they can
learn from their own stories that aregoing on in their lives and the various
(38:42):
different experiences that they'rehaving and the stories like a story
within a story kind of a thing as well.
It's like the story that I'm tellingmyself about, I'll give you an example.
Okay.
So my husband's passed away.
I have three kids.
All I know how to do and allI have done for the last 20
years now, yes, I'm educated.
My field is early childhood education.
(39:04):
That's my passion, but I've workedon and off here and there in that
field, followed my husband aroundthe world because his career was
thriving and his, he was thriving.
So we moved.
Traveled around wherever hiscareer, his job took him.
Somebody had to be the personat home when, if he was
going to be going out, right?
(39:25):
That was me.
Now, he's not around.
What is my story?
What story am I going to tell myself?
What story am I going to createout of this life that I have
in front of me right now.
Am I going to play the victim?
Am I going to, and I can do that easily.
(39:45):
Am I going to play the victim?
Am I going to take this opportunity, takeit as a learning and just take it one
step at a time, do whatever it is that Ineed to do, and as I'm going remind myself
that I am learning, there is nothingwrong with me, not to judge myself.
(40:06):
So self-care, I callthat parenting myself.
So I do a lot of that myself.
Recently, I've been doinga lot of parenting myself.
The way I parent my children, the wayI'm so empathetic and understanding
and observant and all of those goodthings that a parent does for their
children, I decided to turn it aroundand offer some of that to myself,
(40:27):
instead of expecting it from the world.
Nobody knows what I need and theintensity to what I feel like I need it.
So I'm like, okay, yes, I'm grieving.
I need somebody when I need somebody,not when somebody needs to be,
feels they need to be there for me.
So that dependency is, yes, weneed people, but I will keep that
(40:49):
space and make that look different,make that a different experience.
But I'm going to start parenting myself.
I'm going to start caring for myselfin all different aspects of, exercise,
food, emotionally, mentally, everything.
I'm going to be kinder to myself, empathy.
Those kinds of things.
So in the same way, that'sthe story that I am now, I've
(41:16):
decided that I am going to go on.
That's a story that I'm creating, andI'm going to see how this unfolds, as
opposed to another story that I couldhave went down, I'm a victim, feel
sorry for me, it's the end of the world.
I'm I'm young.
This is not fair.
This should have not happened to me.
Justifiably, nothing wrongwith that story either.
(41:38):
What choice do you want to make?
And that is where I, and my mission andmy goal is to help people to go down that,
and I love to get into discussions withanyone who would like to, have that sort
of open this topic up and talk about itand explore how through conversation and
through sharing experiences, we actuallyhelp ourselves, but we also help others.
(42:04):
And actually, we help others more thanwe help ourselves when we share our
stories and speak in an authentic,open minded way, embracing, this
reality that we've been exposed to.
Wonderfully put, and I feel that sometimeswhen we actually have to speak something
(42:27):
out loud, we actually hear what we'resaying, what we're telling ourselves,
because sometimes when we're not doingthat, we think we're thinking a certain
way, but our words, when we speakthem, are telling something different.
And yeah, and sometimes you need that to
(42:50):
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
That is powerful.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's incredible work that you'redoing and I think it's so needed
because, like you say, I think justthe fact that we're here on this
earth makes us worthy of being here.
We are all unique, we all have our ownset of experiences and circumstances that
(43:14):
dictate the path that we are walking.
And it's nobody else's businessto determine whether that's
the right path or wrong path.
It's just what we decide is rightfor us and what we want to explore.
I know that some people are totallyhappy, stuck in their grief.
(43:35):
And I'm, I certainly wouldnever pass judgment on that.
If that is where they want toremain and that is feel that is
where they feel they need to be.
Yes, by all means stay there.
But it's only, I think your missionand my mission is to help people
(43:57):
realize that there are choices.
That dreadful things can happen toreally good people and not so good
people, but to really good peopleand that we all have a choice.
And, that is what my daughter.
Taught me very early intoour grief journey together.
(44:22):
She would say, you've got fiveminutes to have a pity party.
Oh
party, and then you'regonna get over it, Mom.
Because, I love you.
I'm wrapping you in this love,and you're important to me, we're
gonna get back on that horse again.
And, I get on it, I fall off,get kicked off, whatever.
(44:42):
yes.
I just kept taking a step forward,till eventually, I'm free.
I found that peace and that calm andthat happiness again, and it lives in
beautiful harmony with me missing thatbeautiful girl in real time here and
now, being sad, all of those things.
(45:03):
So I think that's a key point, isn't it?
It's just getting to that point wherewe can live in harmony with all that is.
Yes.
Just that acceptance that,life and death go hand in hand.
And, just on a tangent there, just,I'd like to mention this, but, I had
been doing a lot of thinking aboutwhy do I feel so much a grief that
(45:27):
my mom is not around, or my husband'snot around, or my dad's not around.
And something that came to me was thelevel of attachment that I had to them.
And then also, they were alive.
Physical bodies were alive, right?
So now that is the past.
It's You know, yes, they stillAnyway, I'm not gonna go into
(45:52):
that side of the whole thing.
But just that attachment of Myattachment to them is what keeps
me stuck in that grief also
Such a good point.
So if I can just detach myselfby detaching myself doesn't mean
(46:12):
that I've forgotten them doesn'tmean that I love them any less.
It's just me detaching myself fromthat attachment That, that connection,
that, not connection, wrong word,yeah, just that sense of I'm attached.
And attachment to me is morealong the lines of some form of
dependency, some level of dependency.
(46:34):
It could look different in different,for different, relationships.
And once I put that intoperspective in my mind.
I miss them for what they meant in mylife, to me, and the value they brought to
And just that beautiful relationship,that give and take between, say
(46:56):
for instance, my mom and myself.
That relationship, the dynamic of thatrelationship between her and myself.
Same applies to my latehusband as well, and my dad.
The dynamic of that relationship.
I miss him at the most important timesbecause of the way he was, he made
a big deal about special occasions.
He would go out of his way, even if hedidn't want to do what you wanted to do.
(47:19):
And it was your birthday, hewould, be like, and he wouldn't
even show any of his end do ups,he'd be like, you want to do that?
Sure.
Let's go.
I'm happy.
Let's go do this.
Because he made it all about you.
So that.
in itself is I miss that.
I don't have that in my life anymore,
(47:40):
Gosh, you're making me tear up!
Stop it!
but it's a memory.
And it's also a learning.
It's a learning because he set a standard.
So if I look at it from that pointof view, he set a standard of the
level of commitment and the levelof quality that you need to, or what
(48:01):
you need to do to have this kind of arelationship, this kind of a connection.
Yeah, selflessness.
Yes.
So because I was exposed to that, likeeven with my mom, because I was exposed
to the level of relationship that I hadwith her, my standards are like, I'm
trying to strive for those standards.
(48:22):
And I
think each one of us unconsciouslyare actually doing that
whether we realize it or not.
in our grief journey, I don't knowwhether this happened for you, you can
see I'm excited about this, is that weforget to stop for a moment and look
(48:44):
back and see just how far we have come.
Often we think we're still back in thoseearly days, yet we've actually done a
lot of work and gone through a lot ofexperiences that have taken us forward.
And we don't always realize thatactually, yeah, it still hurts like
(49:06):
crazy, but we are doing okay good job.
We have managed to get throughall these different milestones and
we need to congratulate ourselvesand give us ourselves a pat on
the back for that, especially in,
Empathy and gratitude, back to that.
and compassion.
(49:27):
Oh,
Yes,
so let's talk about, I wantto finish up because I realize
we've just romped through
through this hour that we've had together.
It just feels like five minutes andhere it is nearly an hour on . But
you've got a Grieve and Grow Challenge.
Tell us about that because I thinkthat is a beautiful way for us to
(49:50):
start winding down this conversation.
So I did put this challenge out there.
It's called the grieve and grow challenge.
They're very, variousdifferent aspects to it.
The idea behind it is to choose oneof those and then to show yourself
doing for example, I am, thrivingin my grief and celebrate remembering
(50:15):
my loved one, but I'm still thriving.
So maybe documenting that in some form,maybe a picture or, something to that
effect, and then posting that on to,Instagram, tagging people that you
know, would benefit from it as well,and maybe encourage them to also maybe
take on this challenge and do that.
(50:36):
And with that, the more people whoget involved in it, when we look at,
I was just curious to see how manypeople would actually do this and
how would they feel after doing thiswhen you see all the other people who
decide to actually interact as well.
(50:56):
And when you look at that, it's, AndI've had this experience many times
and what brought that up was becauseof the various podcasts that I've
been speaking on and people thatI've been speaking to about grief.
I noticed every time we end, it'ssuch, we're talking about grief.
And stereotypically, it would be like,you would think you're having the most
(51:17):
morbid conversation under the sun.
But, amazingly, that isnot the experience at all.
And, we just end up having sucha beautiful conversation and so
empowering that it makes you feellike, we don't need to be stuck here.
Let's help each other.
If I have something that can helpyou feel just an inch less stuck
(51:42):
than you are feeling, that is good.
So quickly run through the three E's forus that you use as the cornerstone around
this because I think they are wonderful.
so the three E's basically, whichI practice myself, and I remind
myself when I'm feeling down as well.
It's, embrace, and
(52:04):
Empower, evolve.
So embrace is basicallyto embrace your reality.
To embrace.
And what if I don'twanna embrace my reality?
That is fine too, because you'reembracing the fact that you don't
wanna embrace your reality, right?
It's choice.
But embracing
whatever is going on right now, whateverit is that you're feeling, whichever
(52:28):
way it's going, just embrace that.
And then finding ways to empower yourself.
And I have various different toolsthat I've put in my book, about
ways that you can empower yourself.
Gratitude is number one on my list.
And evolution is somethingthat is just natural.
That's going to automatically happenonce you find ways to empower yourself.
(52:52):
And when you do find ways toempower yourself, the universe
also sends help your way.
I really do believe that because thinkthat has happened to me so many times.
Sometimes I didn't even realizethat it was actually happening, but
so embrace and power evolve.
(53:13):
Yeah.
Three simple words that are so powerful.
And yeah, it's not asking anybodyto be anything other than what they
are, but actually there's a lot ofenergy behind them and I think it's
the energy that . , creates shifts.
(53:34):
Whether we're aware of them or not.
Alrighty, I want to wrap upour conversation with three
quick questions I ask everyone.
What is the best thing that hashappened to you so far today?
Or going to happen, because Iknow you've got something planned.
The best thing for me is I'm justreally passionate about my children.
(53:57):
And today my middle son iscelebrating his 20th birthday.
And yeah, so that'sspecial to me 20 years ago.
Yes, it's his birthday, but as amother, and I think mothers as
mothers, we I don't know if othermothers feel this way or not, but I
kind of realized that I may becelebrating my child's birthday and
it is all about them, but 20 yearsago, I gave birth to this human being.
(54:23):
It's not me.
I didn't create him,but I was the process.
I was the channel that allow,this human being came through.
And I'm just, amazed at just life, theway it comes into this world and the
way it unfolds and then the experiences.
Yeah.
(54:44):
So life is beautiful.
It's what you make.
I wish him a very happy 20th and I hopeyou have a wonderful time together.
What is something thatyou are most grateful for?
What am I most grateful for?
This is going to sound absolutely,I can't even believe I'm going
(55:07):
to say this, but here goes.
I'm grateful for every singleexperience that I've had in my life.
If I had not had those experiences,and believe me, as I was going through
them, I felt like this is not fair.
But, excuse me, without those experiences,I don't think I would be where I am today.
(55:35):
And I'm just so grateful for notjust the experience, but also all
of the books, spiritual leaders,support, all of that good stuff that
comes with it, that came my way.
And this information age thatwe live in, where information so
easily available, readily available.
(55:56):
And those strangers that came intomy life when I really needed support.
Total strangers offeringme unconditional support.
So I'm just utterly grateful.
And I just cannot express thelevel of gratitude I feel for that.
What a beautiful answer.
(56:18):
Absolutely beautiful answer.
I just, I felt you.
I nearly was in tears myself whenyou were talking about that because
I could feel the emotion that,that you were delivering that with.
And yes.
Oh gosh, that just wentstraight to my heart.
What's your go to when, and we havean expression here, when your day
(56:42):
turns to custard, when you're havingmoments that are a little bit darker,
how do you pivot out of those?
I stop myself in my tracks,and I tell myself, all is well.
I put my hand on my heart, I take a deepbreath, and I tell myself, all is well.
(57:04):
And I repeat that to myself a fewtimes, even if I need to, just
lightly tapping at my heart as well.
Just reminding myself, all iswell, everything is unfolding
the way it's supposed to.
I don't need to havecontrol over anything.
Accept my present moment right nowand this present moment is precious.
(57:27):
So what am I going bringing that choiceand the gratitude and forgiveness go hand
in hand there, it's like you're practicingboth at some, in some level, right?
So I'll bring that in as well.
I'm grateful that I'm here.
I'm grateful that I actually have atthis given moment, have the awareness
that I need to stop and do this formyself because I couldn't have, maybe
(57:49):
I wouldn't have had the awarenessthat I need to stop and do this
center myself and that's okay too.
There's nothing wrong with that, butif, I'm grateful for that as well.
Oh my God, I go back to gratefulness.
I know I was expecting that
I knew that was going to comeout somewhere along the line.
(58:12):
it sounds beautiful.
It sounds, I, for those people who donot have a regular practice of being
grateful, I just want to share with you,and Ashmeeta, I know you will agree with
me, just the power behind that practice.
It is so life transforming.
(58:32):
And, until you try it yourself and yousee the magic that, that comes from
it, it really is a real life changer.
So I recommend you go give it a goif you're not doing that already.
Oh, and this moment is that we're havingright now, Ashmeeta, is so precious to
(58:53):
me, to have this opportunity to speakto you, to have you openly share your
heartbreaks, but also all the good thingsand the beautiful things that have come
out of your heartbreak when you weretalking about not regretting anything
that you've experienced in this life
(59:17):
I think that too has, is whathas got to meet to this point.
And so I so relate to that and to havethe opportunity to speak to people
like you and to share your stories,I consider an absolute privilege.
And so I want to thank you so much.
(59:37):
So we're going to have all the linksof how people can contact you, how
they can get hold of your book.
How they can, go check outyour Instagram, all of that.
We're going to have thosein the episode notes.
Any final parting thoughtsthat you would like to share?
Firstly, I feel, I'm justgoing to say grateful.
(01:00:00):
I am absolutely grateful thatwe've had this conversation
and really feel a connection.
It was just such a beautifulconversation and I'm just so absolutely
grateful that we're able to do this.
and my parting note, I wouldsay experiences, teach us.
(01:00:21):
Don't let experiences define or destroyyou, take them in that light of them being
a teacher and draw the positivity outof it and embrace, empower, and evolve.
Thanks for listening.
(01:00:42):
I hope you got some realvalue from this episode.
If there's a topic you'd likecovered, click on the Beautiful
Side of Grief at gmail.
com link, or go into thebeautifulsideofgrief.
com website where youcan also leave a review.
To get notified of new episodes,hit the subscribe button.
(01:01:02):
And if you know of somebody whocould benefit from this episode,
please share, share, share.
And until next time, please bekind to you and take good care.
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