BKP #351 [中] Raven+ 点哥, 为什么还在爬墙？

我们都爱这个运动肯定是有原因的，现在攀岩馆多了，这对我们岩友是一件好事吗？

Episode Transcript

(00:07):
OK大家好今天来的是Raven & 大金
哈喽哈喽啊
我们今天想聊的是
你们两个现在还攀岩吗？
爬当然爬的啊
录完录完我可能就去爬了
哈哈哈哈哈哈
刚爬完
你们现在频率高吗
还算高的
还算高的
嗯还算高的
相对高一些

(00:29):
以前我感觉我们经常见
对然后现在不知道是什么情况
是岩馆多了吗
我觉得岩馆多了
就我以前每进一个馆都感觉到啊
我大家都认识
嗯就大部分人都是熟人
现在进馆
嗯有两个除非我们是已经约好的

(00:51):
嗯比较难见到一些熟人了
嗯我就感觉到
嗯是这个环境变了还是what's going on
你们有什么想法吗
据我所知的话
我以前认识在岩馆里面认识的朋友
他们都还在爬
也确实是你说的没错
近一两年好像不怎么碰上了
那事情很明显就是岩馆多了啊

(01:13):
大家都会倾向于选择离家比较近的
我是这样的
离家比较近
稍微远的比如浦东这边的
我几乎都不来了
所以
可能就是因为这种地理位置的差异
然后各自选择比较近的地方
那我们可能见面就少了
你呢点哥你觉得呢
我觉得嗯都OK啊

(01:33):
因为我是一直是去岩馆撞人呀
而是很少去约朋友去
一起去哪里哪里或者怎么样
至于说岩馆多了
见的人少了认识的人少了
嗯确确实是这样
但是
我觉得这些东西也确实像你说的
岩馆多了
然后我们也很少去约时间呀

(01:55):
啊然后也怎么说呢怎么说呢也也不
经常见了
因为你是比较
你是比较少数的那种人
还有一段时间是有年卡的
对我
我哪里年卡
我之前v four的年卡啊
哦近吗 你当时离的v four不近
不近并不近
所以好

(02:16):
他有年卡
我都是啊
然后就基本上我觉得如果我跑去vfour
我基本上都能碰到点哥
嗯因为他基本上都在
嗯可是现在我没
基本上没有朋友是有年卡的
嗯然后都是乱跑
导致见不到人了

(02:38):
就感觉我身边的一些朋友嗯
就约不上一样的馆
嗯大家都有啊
我这次今天是去这个馆或是明天
然后大家的schedule就嗯match不掉yeah
对我现
我是经历了三个阶段
嗯从一开始我大学毕业之后
我也不认识上海岩圈这边的人

(03:00):
嗯我就近选择了一个爬课攀岩馆
嗯那时候他还在东华大学旁边OK
然后在那边我试着买了55次的次卡
哦买噶这么贵
哈哈哈对
多少钱那时候
55次价格我有点不太记得啊
应该是三四五千吧
呀哎呦喂
我们我就只去这个馆

(03:20):
哪里我都不去啊
然后后来我去的第二家馆是pongo
嗯然后胖狗从那里开始认识一些人了
然后也是从我去胖狗开始
那一年开始陆续的开了新的馆
Beta嗯neverest嗯然后这些馆开起来了
然后后面
v four也是相对在那段时间开始开的
嗯但是也比Beta晚大概一年吧

(03:42):
然后就开始串馆串馆了
去其他的地方
我从一周顶多是两次去爬课嗯
变成了因为认识更多人
然后大家
我更倾向想更有一个欲望想去爬了
对 一周三次甚至四次
然后去不同的馆
嗯然后因为能体验到说不同的管

(04:03):
不同的线的那种新鲜感
所以我们就会疯狂的说
哪里有换新鲜的我们就去哪家
对 随着有新的管
有新的管了之后
我们说一定要去探店
去感受一下那种新鲜的感觉
然后就会能有比较长的一段时间
有一周三次四次这个时间
对
然后第二个阶段就有大概2年两三年

(04:25):
然后到现在的阶段就是哦
我觉得我可能爬太多了
然后给自己哈哈哈哈哈
给自己累积下来各种各样的一些伤病啊
之类的没有充分的去休息啊
嗯之类的事情
我变成一周两次
甚至于说一次
嗯因为最近还因为我受伤了
所以变成了我甚至一周只爬一次

(04:49):
这个这么真
有这么个阶段
一周一次
现在是怎么选管的呢
我现在因为膝盖受伤
我就倾向也是去有难度线路的管
老板以前我很喜欢抱石的呀
因为抱石可以风格拍出视频视觉效果特别好
哈哈哈哈
你可以不用说的这么文雅哈哈哈
那我就喜欢那么说
那那怎么说

(05:09):
骚嘛哈哈哈哈
那你呢你觉得你怎么选馆呢 现在啊
哪边换线我去哪边哈哈哈
对吧就新鲜感
新鲜感
对哪边换线我去哪边
也是因为拍拍视频吗
现在我很少拍了现在
我也觉得你以前是没什么就拍小红书

(05:30):
然后现在拍的比较少
现在也拍的比较少了
现在拍视频不是为了记录我的一些攀爬的一些过程
啊 就是是流水账或者是怎么样
我现在拍视频纯粹是为了给我爸看啊
嗯 就这么简单
就这么简单
给我爸看
给我妈看
why 他们真的感兴趣吗

(05:50):
哦
他
我不知道
其实他们会多感兴趣我爬墙这件事
但是他们感兴趣的是我啊啊
然后就相当于给他们报个平安
你儿子很好很健康
现在还飞檐走壁的呀
哎 就可以了
然后也可以跟家里家里人说啊
我现在还在爬墙

(06:12):
身体状态很好或者怎么怎么样
大家不用担心呀
大概就是这个情况
因为怎么说呢
我爬着爬着之前
有一阵是我特别喜欢拍视频呀
哎
拍完了以后呢
就是那个时候会更新的
就是一两周一次
会更新的很很频繁
嗯 然后后边有有一阵子
怎么说呢

(06:32):
我是受伤了还是怎么样
我记不起来了
然后有大概一个月的时间我没更新
然后我爸我妈就问我你怎么了
嗯嗯
有什么事情了吗
你为什么不拍了呀
哎 然后后边的话
啊好的 我现在挺好的
我就是最近没拍啊
但是我也不能跟他们说我受伤了
或者说有其他事情了
或者怎么怎么样

(06:52):
我就是最近没拍
然后后边他们就会我知道了
他们会很念这个事情
嗯呀 就是想嗯
除想通过飞电话
飞微信聊天的一些文字和视频呢
这些方面东西
想在一些那种视频上
就是我发的那些视频上看到我呀

(07:12):
他们想要看到这些东西
那 那就给我给他们拍就看好了
就是现在我的
KPI不是说我去多少次岩馆
或者说我爬过多难的线
是我爬了线以后
我差不多给他们报个平安啊
哎就可以了
因为我们第一次听到
这个这个
对因为因为现在怎么说呢
我不是那么很很喜欢打电话

(07:36):
嗯和发微信
还有尤其是我讨厌语音通话
嗯
我所以说
我爸我妈其实给我发语音通话时候
第一反应我是比较
不管是谁
不管是谁给我发语音通话的时候
我是非常反感的
我是非常反感的
是一个i人一样的存在
对我是我是i人
第一次听说东北的i人啊

(07:57):
没有 有些刻板印象
I E 是可以转换的
看什么情况
但是你让我说
你说我们啊
比如说这这种谈话方式
我们用电话的方式来解决吧
嗯那我是拒绝的
哈哈哈你明白吧
你喜欢线下的face to face的
呃要不然就face to face
要不然就是简单就是微信说两句

(08:20):
在哪里边剪
其实还是喜欢嗯
线下见面
或者说我们在岩馆街
或者说我们去吃饭
我们去喝咖啡都OK的
但是电话里边就算了
我跟我父母也是这样
我跟基本
基本上所有人给我发语音通话
也是这样
呃工作上的嘛
那没办法了
工作就是工作
挣那点委屈费嘛

(08:40):
就是就是
就是这个东西
所以对所以怎么说呢
就是也是家人可以通过手机以外
就是就是微信以外的东西
看到我另一面的一个渠道吧
我觉得
嗯他们喜欢
那我就拍他们给他们看一看

(09:01):
正好除了我爸我
妈以外其他的家里人也可以看看
也挺好都挺好
这种形式的报平安
对也挺好 可以
我觉得其实有点启发了
甚至对我来说
对我
其实这个也是给很多家人看的
嗯就他们想知道我在中国有什么变化
嗯
然后他们感觉到我我一来中国的时候

(09:24):
特别美国
性格就everything都是very American
然后慢慢慢慢
你可以看到我的一个变化
嗯所以他们也是有点感兴趣的
可是你觉得
那你攀岩现在是为了什么呢
因为如果不是为了进步
是为了见到一些朋友吗
还是这个这个目目的是什么

(09:45):
现在因为感觉大家都有一些台阶
就是一开始是很想进步
然后过了一个V几突然就是慢下来了
达到一个瓶颈然后目标就变了
你们现在在什么什么level
什么啊心态
我现在的话

(10:05):
我在两年前的时候我会想说
我是报了课
嗯报了课我说我要我要成长
然后我要能够爬1314
嗯嗯我要能够顺利的爬V5 V6
嗯然后就报课
但是后来
我觉得这个瓶颈期真的很难突破呀
然后后面心态就变平了

(10:26):
就希望说
我就希望说是开开心心快快乐乐的
呃一方面能保持一个长久的运动习惯
嗯另一方面
又可以通过这习惯
去跟原本我就是通过攀岩认识的朋友
跟他们搜手那样
所以主要这两个方式吧
嗯主要这两个目的
你呢
我单纯的为了爬而爬

(10:49):
也不想进步
呃进步
你说刚开始去爬的时候不想进步
那是说谎的
对的
以前对现在
嘛其实我已经
我我我对自己呃
的各种能力有清晰的认知
我要往上走
基本上是不太可能就到头了
已经就这样了
嗯所以怎么说呢

(11:10):
跟我健身一样就养成一个习惯吧
养养成一个习惯吧
嗯保持一定的趣味性
和一点点的社交属性
嗯嗯就我觉得就可以了
总归我在家窝着没有什么别的事情干
也好因为是这样的
攀岩之前我也尝试过其他的一些

(11:31):
嗯很多的一些活动
当然大多数
有的和运动有关有的和运动无关
OK你就像
比如说什么什么剧本杀狼人杀
其实我都去过一次的呀
去一次以后这些就直接pass掉
嗯为什么爱归啊你们两个都是吗
对OK为什么我觉得这个
这个东西
我上班又就已经很费脑细胞了

(11:53):
下班我要喊
我还要陪你们在这边费脑细胞
我觉得对不起当年也是蛮费脑细胞的
呃不一样不一样
啊那不一样不一样
然后还有什么
嗯射箭嗯什么格斗
嗯或者说游泳啊然后什么飞盘啊
其实我差不多都去过那么一两次

(12:15):
嗯能够让我有欲望去继续去第二次
第三次的
呃没有那就先还是攀岩吧
嗯嗯后边我试了骑行
骑行呢怎么说呢
我现在自己在骑
这个东西和我觉得我个人
骑行和社交是无关的
我自己开心就好了
嗯啊然后攀岩嘛就是留下来的那一个

(12:37):
嗯嗯啊可以有一点点社交
可以有就是简单单纯的为了爬二爬
嗯可以也可以是认识新的朋友
嗯也可以是为了保持
我的身体机能嗯哼
嗯就就就这样
然后偶尔可以拍个视频耍耍帅
其他的其他的就没什么了

(12:57):
嗯那你们两个觉得
你们为什么还待在这个圈子里
就攀岩哪些点还吸引到你们
你觉得这个social是真的能保持这群人吗
就是因为你这边已经有朋友了
已经有圈子了
你还想见所以他们这些人在

(13:21):
嗯一直拉着你回来不让你走
嗯我感觉会有有享受
跟搜索的过程一样
然后
但我也没有特地的去追求这个事情
嗯这是一个自然而然的一个我去了
我能够享受他人的乐趣
那同时我又能够跟他们聊聊天

(13:43):
而且我会觉
因为前段时间我因为受受伤
前段时间没怎么爬两个月
嗯我会觉得我在想我有点手足无措
下班了之后
我本该去拍影馆的
但这个时候我坐在家里
我就不知道该干嘛了
我想
我像是人生好像失去了方向一样
哈哈哈有一点这种感觉
对而且这个事情是

(14:03):
我好几个朋友也告诉我类似的经历
他们因为受伤往往只是受伤
嗯在家里面了
不能去了回来家不知道该干嘛
或者是失业了
嗯没没事做了
然后呢就也是失去了一个方向
嗯
他们有一些是失业没工作了之后啊

(14:23):
攀岩也只是一周两三次
嗯不攀岩的日子里面
他们又不知道干什么你啊
我我有蛮多朋友
所以对我来说
呃攀岩会变成我一个
算是我生命之中之中的一个支刷
支柱的部分
对让我找到一种存在感
OK你呢

(14:45):
潘岩啊
为什 么还是留在这个圈子里呢
我从来没有在圈子里
我在圈外
你就在圈子里
有我我我
我在边缘
我我我是边缘人物
我没有在圈子里
其实没有什么所谓圈不圈子
圈子
嗯现在我觉得以前是有的
我没有
我觉得一开始的时候那一群嗯

(15:07):
老研友是一定是有圈子的
嗯然后他们都开始开馆了
嗯然后现在有每一个馆的一些圈子
嗯都还是有的
嗯只是看你参不参与
我现在我觉得你要这么说的话
我也从来不带圈子的
只是说我去参加一下
那嗯OK那你觉得what keeps you就还

(15:28):
为什么还呆在选择攀岩
因为你现在也绕一大圈
我们都
我们也应该都玩过很多别的运动爱好
对嗯
啊为什么选择留在攀岩
就一直追求攀岩
因为解压
因为解压
真的吗
对
可是一直不进步
哪里哪里的解压

(15:48):
那我因为我不执着于进步
嗯
所以我可以通过这个这个东西去解压
去发泄
如果你你的你是执着于进步的
说你要几年内爬到什么样的一个水平
然后然后你一直去努力
但是你一直达不到那你压力就更大

(16:09):
对但是我没有那种很很强烈的说
我要进步的
那那那那种那种东西
嗯所以我觉得还好
我但是我去了就是挺解压
是一个攀岩躺平了
呃也算攀岩也算躺平
就是反正就是解压啊
中规两个字解压嗯

(16:30):
你呢
对我来说也挺解压的
我经常会听听说用用说法
说是攀岩的时候攀岩它可以让我
呃预防心理疾病预防抑郁 症
会吗
有这么个说法啊
你觉得有吗
我觉得很有可能会有啊
我没法去去证明这个事情因为没有

(16:53):
可是我可以想象出来
为什么他们这么说嘛
因为攀岩不只是动脑子
你也是有一点在进步
然后又有social的这个环境
就感觉像你是有一个小社会在这边的
嗯这个圈子会让你感觉又有存在感
又有朋友
又嗯就everything
人需要的一些东西都基本在这

(17:14):
还有嗯就是我们攀岩的时候
我们人在墙上的时候
我们想我是非常专注的
嗯我们只想着下一个点我怎么做
哪怕是我们好了这一这一次我失败了
我下来我没有在跟旁边你看交流
我就看了下我在思考
我还是在专注在这件事情上面
这个东西
好像就是所谓的说的心流

(17:34):
那种状态一样
然后通过一这么一个过程了之后
我完成一条线路
要得到又是成就感呀
我觉得这种东西也可以有很大的帮
对我们的心理健康有很大帮助
这个是为什么我保持喜欢格斗
嗯
因为我觉得格斗真的就是让我100%专心

(17:55):
其实我没有感觉到攀岩能这样
因为我攀岩
我觉得我还是可以想到工作的
一些东西
就这even在墙上
嗯我有一些点是可以休息的
嗯可是格斗的时候你一休息
你一稍微想去想到PPT
你突然你脸被皱了一下

(18:15):
但是你被相逢
我没有过这种经历
这种这种东西就是真的很危险
如果你开始分分神
两分神就马上被揍被打
嗯被碾压
嗯所以我就很喜
欢格斗就只能100%在关专心这个东西
攀岩
我有的时候觉得我坐在那边我可以
想一些别的我可以

(18:35):
就没有那么需要专心
你说的没有没有那么需要专业指示
你爬的时候你会站吗
你人在爬的时候墙上吗
可是我一下来我觉得不大会吧
就人就被扯回去了
就被扯回去了
但是你在格斗的时候
其实你也没有几分钟啊
5分钟我说一轮就5分钟
然后下一轮可能休息30秒
又是5分钟

(18:56):
就从来没有一个停的过
休息30秒就5分钟
哎呀我们是5分钟休息30秒
5分钟休息30秒
哦
你是说是像是一个比赛一样的那种
就是上课的时候是
嗯 实战
嗯 基本上5分钟休息5分钟休息
嗯
就实战间歇更短
我们休息特别短

(19:16):
那理论上的拍
我们也可以这么做
还是可以的
对 但只是说
没有人去迫使我们去做这件事情
是的
然后没有人在那边准备要揍你的那种
对哈哈哈
哎对对对
但在墙上你还是要很专注的呀
yes在墙上你是必须要专注的
要不然就马上掉下来
或者说是呃
盘难度线路的时候
嗯 我们是差不多10分钟在墙上

(19:39):
yes你包括保护员你也要专注
看上面的保护员
我觉得更要专注
对 所以我觉得我被保护的时候
我其实经常就是啊
我可以休息一会
然后哎take
然后就可以停一会
嗯 然后就感觉人家反正保护着我
我可以坐一会
然后看一下
然后休息一下再开始

(19:59):
你很你在墙上很能relax
我在爬 难度的时候即使我take了
啊我的因为我有点恐高啊
我也是
然后被摆荡的时候
我整个心里面其实很不舒服的
哈哈哈哈然后好了
哪怕是我挂住
我没在摆荡的时候
我也在想的是
我下一个点我要怎么做
什么动作嗯
我为什么刚才没有过

(20:20):
我为什么刚才掉了
是点力不够吗
是动作不对吗是力量跟不上吗
嗯我我会去想的事情我始终是focus的
我没有没有过说在上面放空
嗯哼极少没水不是没有吗啊极少
我在上面就i don't care
就啊好过了就过了啊
累了下来按赞
所以你是比较佛啊

(20:41):
你就说你没有
说是很想追求说我一定完成
掉线路
没有那种感觉
嗯很傻因为
因为我在进步
那段时间的时候我也没有那种啊
这一定要过
why
对你缺你
缺一个随时从墙上凸出来一个
严点抓砸到你脸上的东西

(21:01):
魅力哈哈哈哈哈哈
没有他他的
这他的我们在攀岩上用的这部
这部分精神他是用在了格斗上
所以不一样的
也没有啊
因为我觉得我
我觉得我看把这个东西看得比较长啊
就
你只要一直在这个圈子一定会进步

(21:22):
你就一直培养这个东西一定会进步
嗯只是进步的比较慢
and that's okay
我觉得我看这个东西
是看十几二十年
都no problem
嗯然后身边的人都会慢慢走
可是我还在我就一直还在进步
我总有一天会比你们好
因为你们会quit

(21:42):
我不会quit
这是我的想法
他说他好像他要 投资
哈哈哈
只要你一直在场上
你就你总共能够有回报
没比有这个说法
没比没比道理就是
怎么说呢
说说说那个最彻底一点就是
我可能进步的慢
也可能不进步但是我不会退步

(22:02):
对嗯我不会退
对对对对对不管怎么样我不会退步
我觉得这个就已经很好了我
嗯
所以我对这个完全没有要求
说我必须要进步
那我的倾向可能有点不一样啊
就我会比较相信说所谓的刻意训练呀
所以我会觉得

(22:22):
说我更focus去做件事情的时候
我们能够在
比如说我跟你去同样爬一条线路
我觉得我特意去focus的时候
可能我能更容易得到进步呀
一定会
对所以我我是倾向这样的
啊哈
但我也有个可能性啊
你还有其他的运动你还会做其他运动
而我对我来说

(22:43):
我主要就是攀岩啊哈别的没有什么
所以我就只就属于我的
我的专注是在攀岩上面
对我其实拉你进来就是因为
我觉得很多人
你们两个都是比较偏向攀岩
对然后我是什么都玩
嗯你们为什么决定就是只做一件事
不做多的运动

(23:05):
其实我有在尝试其他多的运动
但其他多的运动的话
更多是一种搜
真的是更多的搜索方式啊
对比如说出去游泳
嗯比如说去玩滑板啊比如说去徒步
游泳是最不搜手的一个东西
游泳没有搜手
对游泳是0搜手
游泳除非你是带人过去

(23:26):
基本上是没有搜手的啊
游泳
游泳我们因为我不太会游
其实啊我不会变成是在
一直往返一直往返
嗯哼然后去的也是没有很会游
我们游到一边一段之后
我们要真的要休息一两两两两两分钟
那个时候稍微聊一聊啊
对啊而且还有一个过程
就是我们一起过去一起走那种

(23:47):
我们同在一个空间里面那一种social
嗯我觉得也算是一部分
嗯嗯嗯嗯因为
至少英文有一个说法叫Jack of all trades
他就是会很多东西
可是什么东西都不厉害
嗯然后有一些东西人就是很专心
只做一个东西就很垂直
嗯然后我是偏什么东西都会一点

(24:10):
嗯然后每一个东西都是中等级别吧
中中低端嗯可是都会那么一点
我觉得这个更全面
嗯
可是很多人都很喜欢垂直做一个东西
做的特别深
嗯然后我有的时候感觉
现在社会上都要你做的特别深

(24:30):
嗯而不是比较广
嗯
你们就两个就是很明显的探研很深
嗯然后别的东西都啊
Don't really care
觉得倒也不至于到这种程度
首先我不会觉得什么松手要求我
我没有感觉到任何的生活压力让我说
我一定要在某一项东西上面做得好啊

(24:52):
但是我会觉得我会感受到的是
呃如果我在这一件事情上
做得投入时间足多
做得足够好的话
嗯那我好像是有更多的回报的
OK
你至于说其他的运动的话
我会觉得还有其他的成本在里面
嗯时间成本精力成本包括金钱成本
你买装备也要花不少钱这种

(25:13):
所以我会倾向于说主要是方言嗯哼
嗯你也是我不是
我完全不是
你是啥
我是为了避开一些不必要的搜索
和垃圾人哈哈哈
我举一个比较那什么的例子
就是攀岩
我可以一个人去呀

(25:34):
岩馆没有人
我可以一个人爬
没错对吧
嗯呃我不需要别人给我陪练
也不需要给别人给我有什么互动
我可以自己玩自己的
没有关系
自娱自乐嘛
嗯但是我换成别的运动 比如说
呃足球你要你要组局飞盘
橄榄球篮球

(25:55):
你都要组局组成了你才会去
而且在上海
这种算是比较高消费的运动
嗯
是很高消费的
足球篮球很高消费的
就是因为场地费呀
场地费啊
场地费还有时间对吧
然后你还得组成一个局

(26:16):
而且我们到这个年纪了
你必须得有轮换
而且那这样的话
就必须得是一个半阵容
你起码要有的
因为对第一个是这个很难聚集
第二个是
你也可以像我们去排烟馆一样
去撞人撞熟人
呃篮球和足球也是一样
可以去撞人
但是你不可控的因素就是流氓太多了

(26:39):
篮球流氓
足球流氓
哈哈哇
再说我们去攀岩
是没有所谓的人和人之间的对抗
对我们受伤大部分
我可以说就是现在攀岩受伤那么多
90%多我都可以说是你自己不小心
你自己心里没数
对
你自己心里没数
对吧 嗯

(27:00):
足球和篮球
好像其他的需需要
和和人需要有互动的那些
好像不是这样
可控因素
对不可控的
而且有可能是恶意的
对啊 恶意的
再说跟你关系很好的
你们俩撞到一起了
你把他撞伤了
嗯你还得
赔他把你撞伤了你也得找他赔
嗯
有些时候这个东西谈不好的话
朋友没得做了
啊我懂你意思呀

(27:22):
我是风险太大
嗯各种风险吧
啊所以
我觉得还是自己玩自己的比较好一点
你不觉得这样就哈哈
人很难很难
就大家的门槛就变得越来越高了吗
这个什么的门槛
嗯做朋友的门槛
搜什么门槛就越来越高了

(27:43):
因为宿舍
门槛高是指在哪个方面呢
就是感觉如果我足球都不敢玩了
这个嗯感觉这个门槛就高啊
我小的时候大家
哎我们有篮球场
就随便碰一碰也没有什么
嗯你需要陪的
我需要陪的
那是我觉得设施使用
场地使用这些没有那么多

(28:05):
然后用的人就特别的多呀资源的问题
资源分配的问题
我们你说那种情况
可能是那里就有个场地
嗯没有那么多人去
人去人你只要人随时过去
然后有人在那你可以参与进去就好了
没错
而是我现在的话都是收费的场地
你要提前预约好时间段然后过去
然后你才能去使用

(28:26):
人太多
所以这边成本很高
我觉得主要是在这个方面上
沟通成本很高
沟通成本很高
然后还有一个就是你就算小时候
我们如果是单纯拿小时候
和长大了以后比起来
小时候你说你不喜欢和某人踢球
那就不和
不和他踢球对对吧
但是我们现在好像做不到

(28:46):
为什么做不到
嗯很难做到
很难做到
那就是实际情况就是
可是人多啊就应该更容易做的到
呃人多了更难做到what
对啊你说哎
加我一个你是拒绝还是要啊
我懂你意思
呃就是这种情况
然后就是小的时候
我们就是我往高了讲啊

(29:08):
就是说你有有有冲突了
干他就完了
嗯
长大了以后你可以吗
现在你可以吗
你现在
你现在动手的成本是多高你知道的吧
所以我这方面也是一个考量呀
所以这个
跟朋友几个去我觉得OK

(29:28):
嗯而且是很好的朋友
但是我们好像目前聚不起这种
聚不起这种
就算是把所有人都拉进来
也聚不齐这种局的
所以只要事情太多呀呀呀
都所以都所以都就算了吧
这种不适合我
而且有对抗的也不适合我哈哈哈
可能是这种大城市的一种通病
要要通病的

(29:48):
通病的时间不够
人太多
而且时间对不起的
对啊时间对不起的
只有在大城市才会发生这种事情
嗯
因为我回到我回到美国的时候
新泽西那边我去他们柔术馆
嗯嗯他们每天都报道
那些人每天都报道
我问他为什么你来这边
没没别的事情干
我
就我没有别的机会做别的兴趣爱好

(30:12):
基本上这附近就这个
一个就必须要来啊
然后我朋友也都在我就每天报道
嗯
你上海 我i can do anything
就我有这么多别的东西可以玩
当值
我我为什么只要选一个
所以就很多人在那边就很专一

(30:33):
我就一直嗯一天两练一天三练
就在这边嗯就变得厉害很多
然后他们也不care啊
我drop it哎
你不用了
不今天不付钱
who care我们会员
每天都来每天都在付钱
嗯所以你一次来就不用付钱也没关系
嗯就特别relax
我是特别喜欢那个环境
就比较有人情味的感觉

(30:53):
对这边什么都是收费什么都是
都是规规矩矩的
必须要有
因为人太多
是的
你看我
有的时候感觉城市友好的也有很多
嗯就不是特别人情化
嗯i don't呃我我不是特别喜欢
可是也是很喜欢啊
我怎么都我想玩什么都可以玩

(31:15):
tough
嗯那我问你们因为我要还要回到你
我觉得
嗯
你玩的东西多还是好事
嗯啊因为我觉得很多动作是通用的
嗯所以你比如说我最近在玩泰拳
泰拳你的低扫其实跟你的一个Dino

(31:37):
横行的一个Dino其实动作是一样的
你的胯从一边翻到另外一边
然后蹦翻到墙上
对其实这些动作是通用的
嗯可是很多人在只练一个东西
可能你没有感觉到啊
按照一些动作
可是你嗯玩这个东西
然后再回来你发现
哎一样的动作我好像可以get到

(31:58):
所以我很喜欢玩很多不一样的东西
然后回来的时候
哎我好像在这边有进步耶
可以你们为什么不跑去一些别的
然后多练一下这个
然后再回来
是我是觉得时间成本
金钱成本啊精力成本
我要去学一个东西我要花更多的时间

(32:20):
不好玩吗那个过程不很好玩吗
还有一个事情
路径依赖
我熟悉这个东西啊
我会倾向于去一直做我熟悉的事情
而有时候一些陌生的活动
有时候不会想都不会想到有时候
呀
这个也跟周边搜索的人有关系
啊哈
你侮辱我
周边人都是攀岩的

(32:40):
那我怎么会想去做其他运动呢
啊 我会
哈哈哈哈哈哈
有可能
就是因为你原来是居住在美国那边
然后你有足够多的各种各样的活动
都可以去尝试
你尝试过了
因为你周围有很多玩不同的东西呀
呃
所以你就可以有一个

(33:03):
有个贝斯
有个贝斯
其实你你就是喜欢玩多的啊
而我们的话
可能就是一直都是在一个圈子里面
攀岩的圈子
嗯就从来没有想跳出来吗
我其实自己想玩一下格斗
嗯然后决定不做嘛
但这个事情

(33:23):
呃我觉得对成年人来说
你想做一个事情
和你真正去做这个事情
他这个过程的那个启动的阻力
还是挺大的
对我来说耶
我我觉得上海的好处就是
你想做你就去做啊
就直接不管是点评上class pass
你随便选一个啊
今天下班

(33:43):
嗯 就那边
let's go
我就从来没有感觉到一个主力就说我
这个东西不能学
这个东西有门槛
我不能就就感觉
卧槽let's try who knows
我没有那么多时间
嗯下班没有那么多时间
阿明对 下面我还有一部分时间

(34:04):
我我分配是在其他上面
啊哈
阿明攀岩我一周两趟
然后健身房我要去
我又要去
对
然后我又跟其他人去搜手
你们要回去
跟女朋友在一起
时间不够
对 就是哪怕我想再去尝试别的运动
我也是想在保持我现有的东西上去

(34:26):
那这个很贪心是吧
我知道 但就变成是我要有取舍
我要牺牲
然后我就想到我要牺牲攀岩啊what
no啊
我懂我倒是没有什么其他的想法
嗯就是单纯的懒
懒
哈哈哈
懒我在攀岩上能感觉到快乐嗯哼
呃
那就继续因为这种快乐也熟悉了呀

(34:48):
而且也比较容易获得
然后
那我觉得就暂时可以
没有必要去尝试一些别的东西
而且我也懒
嗯哼如果说我哪天从攀岩上
我得不到我想要的一些快乐
嗯说我解不了压了
或者说其他的一些情况怎么样
导致我不能去攀岩了
或者怎么样
那我可能会再尝试一些其他东西

(35:10):
嗯然后再往就刚你说的垂直
再往这里边去啊
深耕嗯嗯
但是目前的情况来说的话
没有其他的想法就先攀岩
还是攀岩
快乐就快乐单一的快乐也是
快乐就好了耶
嗯是这样的
然后周中的话呢现在上班嘛

(35:31):
呃也有一些其他的事情束缚着
嗯现在去
下班以后去健身房
也不是我一个人去了呀
就是要带着公司的朋友一起去
哦也算是一个一个一个一个任务吧
也不能说是任务
也算是一个一项一项事情
当做一个事情来做

(35:51):
虽然说后边的话
可能也很快就不会再继续了呀
但是现在还是目前这个状态
嗯不太想打破这个固有的循环
因为我这个人比较单调
而且很习惯
就是一个那个循环里边
一个水口里边就一直一直那么循环
循环循环

(36:11):
我觉得OK的
总有一两个点能让我感觉到快乐
嗯嗯快乐就好
就是不管这个东西是不是重复
的我习惯了我基本上不会轻易的改变
嗯哼就这个这个就这种情况OK
花最小的精力获得最大的快乐
我理解
这个啊任何改变都是要花精力的

(36:34):
yes可是
我我反驳的点是这样的嗯我觉得
上海是一个很流通的一个城市
嗯很多人会进来然后待几年走
对就比较流通
嗯然后我有的时候觉得
如果你不主动找更多圈子

(36:57):
或者更多朋友
嗯你的朋友就一直在消失消失消失
然后你需要很主动
找更多人拉到你身边
要不然你总有一天一直在做减法
你就没有朋友了
然后你意识到这个东西就已经太晚了
嗯啊

(37:17):
这个最明显的其实是外国人
因为外国人呆的时间是最短的
对然后我看到大部分我的那些朋友嗯
我问他们为什么离开
嗯孤单没有朋友
啊你说你的外国朋友
我觉得这不会是我们的问题啊真的吗
对不是我们的问题
这个不是我们的问题

(37:39):
就是比如说我的情况下
就单说攀岩这件事情
嗯我只要持续在做攀岩这件事情
我真的是发现就是一直会有新人进来
如果想要认识一个人其实还挺简单的
嗯就大家很容易
在餐馆里面我我就感觉氛围特别的好
yes你你不需要任何的沟通
你不要说自我介绍

(38:00):
然后就大家啊你跟我在爬同一条线
嗯你怎么爬的
呃就大家像是我们在做同一件事情
我们就之间就有一种一
就仿佛就有一种connection一样
嗯我们就有一个共同的语境
说我我跟
你从来没见过面
但是说
就开始说你觉得那个动作怎么做
那样对就会有这种all the time

(38:21):
对啊所以我不会担心
说我在只做一个爱好
一个攀岩这个爱好
然后因此会说后面我收手的人
我的朋友变少
我不担心这问题
不担心对我
对于我来说
这个东西理解的角度不一样吧
嗯就是你觉得可能
呃就是刚才说的你的那些朋友

(38:41):
说是他们就走了
因为朋友减少了
减少减少了或者怎么样
当然我们对于他们
换个角度来讲也是一样的
我们在他们那边的角度
可能也是在减少的
一个一个一个例子之一OK
对所以这个东西换过来想想一下
我觉得都都是一个常态化的东西
就算说你朋友多了

(39:03):
不是说你不主动找他们
朋友多了以后你挨个一个schedule下来
可能就是那么长的一个周期
嗯啊然后他会觉得你远离他了
然后中间就少了一环
嗯一样的一样的你圈子大了就那样
圈子小了吗
嗯那就少一点朋友少一点比较
嗯少一点

(39:23):
怎么说呢
比较离得远的朋友
多一些关系非常好的朋友
嗯但是这些也是
你不能说
是你觉得他一定会长久他就会长久
对客观原因
不会那么允许你们有那么多的
呃主观的一些想法的一些东西
所以我觉得顺其自然就好了

(39:45):
你来我欢迎你走我欢送
所以你不主动
我也有主动的时候
就是说
我很想认识攀岩馆的某一个妹子
啊哈哈
呀妹子或者是汉妹子或者是汉子都
可以让妹子多一点
尤尤其是好看的
可以吧哎哎那就去认识啊

(40:06):
没有什么什么
呃就是说那些非得打听
或者是怎么样这个妹子是谁啊
或者说这个妹子怎么怎么样
周边有没有男朋友女朋友或者什么
你想认识就去认识呀
你我同意啊
你想认识就去跟他那个说话呀
他如果表现的很抗拒那就next one啊
下一个我

(40:28):
我同意Raven的想法跟你的想法
就是在岩馆很容易认识新的人
对啊
你觉得在岩馆认识的人有多少
真的转化成好朋友
挺多的啊
对我来说really
对啊
你看你还在岩馆里边收获了女朋友啊
对那就可以了呀

(40:49):
好吧那我我真的觉得少
嗯我觉得我在岩馆认识的很多人
我都谈不完
我觉得取决于说
你们是不是认识了之后
然后经常在一起
hang out之类
就是在岩馆
我觉得我们完全没问题
可是我就是觉得我是岩馆朋友

(41:09):
嗯
你要把这些人拉出嗯做别的事情
no就感觉这些人就纯粹呆在岩馆
朋友 嗯
嗯and there's nothing more
就一离开岩馆一没什么东话题
嗯没有没有就聊不到
嗯墙上的东西耶

(41:30):
突然这个人就感觉是空的
没有别的东西可以聊
经常遇到
就感觉是因为说
彼此其实了解的不够多
而且自己的呃相互认识也没有那么熟
maybe
对啊
可是我就觉得
这些人就很难走到下一步
很多就很难走
你是泛指岩管里所认识的朋友是吧
嗯啊因为攀岩的人基本上大多都是矮

(41:52):
人
哈哈哈
我就觉得很多眼管就拉不出眼眼管
是的
因为i人的一个很很很明显的特质
就是他比较专注于一个东西
嗯不管是爱好也是专注
一个是喜欢的东西也是专注
一个讨厌的东西也很专注的
讨厌的东西也很
也很固定的那个东西

(42:13):
你知道吧可能就是讨厌
讨厌搜手哈哈哈
呃但是怎么说呢
又一个很矛盾的东西
他们讨厌搜索
但是他们渴望有一点点搜索啊
肯定需要的这个是肯定有需要的
需要的对
人类需要这个东西
只不过
他们没有其他人需要的那么多
但是他们
可但是他们他们的需求也是比较

(42:34):
嗯怎么说呢
有有
有那么一小部分的是需求比较强烈的
嗯我只需要单一的一个
呃那么几个的搜索就好了
但是大部分都做不到啊
大部分都做不到
就是他们跳出这个圈子
可能就变成了一个什么都不懂耶
文盲耶
哈哈哈
就是
我的心里好像仿佛只有攀岩的东西

(42:56):
我可以跟你聊
对的
其他的东西啊我聊什么也聊不下去
聊什么
聊工作甚至都聊不到一起去哈哈哈
所以我有的时候就觉得
我在岩管认识的一些人
只能聊攀岩
攀岩哎
然后一跳出来they know nothing
然后就突然we can't be friends

(43:17):
就感觉我们下一步走不下去
yeah我们能保持在岩管聊岩点
怎么爬这一条线
这些我都同意
我然后我觉得特别容易
就是走那第一步
嗯可是第二步maybe啊第三步lost
就是感觉这个
很多眼有 嗯

(43:39):
是有天花板的
嗯 我们的深度只能到这
嗯 然后 that's it
人生应该是有有些人
或者就有一部分人
真的就是
就不一定会收手
嗯 就是
我知道怎么就
我们确实通过攀岩认识了
但是我们如何再把这个对话进行下去
或者说
我想不想再把这个关系推进下去

(44:01):
这些方法他是不知道的
嗯 对很多人来说
不仅是这种朋友关系
包括我觉得
呃 谈恋爱也是这样
我知道怎么追一个人
然后追一个
追到一个人之后该怎么做
okay no one tell me how to do it
uh
how what to what to do
next yeah okay
我我跟你告白了
嗯
我我
我有种感觉

(44:21):
我我跟你告白了
好 你接受了
嗯 好
我们成为男女朋友了
嗯 那么接着下一步做什么
牵手
哈哈哈 马上牵他手 哈哈哈
对对
你的双人
我你说
具体动作
我知道 但是后面我们该怎么相处呢
啊 一模一样没变
对
不知道该做什么
嗯 就是
没有人去说过这个事
没有人去教过这个事情

(44:42):
你知道我觉得这个问题在哪吗
嗯
你有哥哥吗
没有
姐姐
我是独生子啊
that's why 我觉得你有
你有比你大的兄弟姐妹很
就真的有帮助
嗯 因为他们会告诉你怎么跟女生
嗯
沟通他们会教的

(45:02):
嗯 但我没有这样的人告诉我
然后 或许比你大的一些朋友
我游泳队很多都是他们教我的
嗯 就是
比我大几几年的
他们会说 哦
你喜欢的女生
我告诉你应该怎么办
然后叭叭叭
然后说 一旦很多都是useless的
可是有那么几个东西是有用的
嗯嗯
然后就是比你大的那些哥们会教你

(45:25):
我觉得这个是我小时候最大的收获
嗯OK
那可能你可以要不要去再去回想一下
推测一下那些你说很难推进的
在岩馆里面认识的朋友
他们是不是也独生子女
哈哈哈哈哈哈
对 90后80后这一代的大家都是
都是子女都是的
那我们这种

(45:46):
你可以说社交能力吧
可能都有限
嗯 没有人教
没有足够的经验
可是年纪更小的更没有啊
我觉得00后
也就是一大堆
完全不知道怎么社交的人
除了通过手机
他们不知道怎么聊天
那是的
是的 they're terrible
我
我遇到太多就是年纪小的

(46:10):
我不知道是年龄的问题
代购的问题
而他们就纯粹只会用手机沟通
they don't know anything
然后你跟他们面对面说话
lost
太不会说
对 就oh
my god
你还要考虑说
可能
是不是人家确实没有足够的借力啊

(46:30):
就没有足够的人生经历
来跟你沟通这个事情
maybe
我我代购
我会觉得这是代购
代购的意思
某某某
我我并不觉得这个东西是代购
因为我是从东北长大的嘛
东北的家长或者是是这些成年人
对于小孩子呵护是很到位的

(46:52):
而且但是他们有一个东西
就是他们会特别喜欢大方的孩子
OK
大方说的是
呃小孩子你敢说话
嗯你可以说话
嗯
你可以主动跟他们说出你的诉求呀
主动跟他们
跟他们说出小孩子
现在我在想什么
嗯呀 这个也是大方的一个交流方式

(47:15):
这种东西
喜欢东北人
对
这种东西是从小就是大家都会喜欢的
一个小孩子的一个交流的一个方式
哎
对对对对
所以这个东西的话
就是也分一些地域性吧
但是你要是换成云南的那种三生教育
那完全可能就不一样
因为上海对啊

(47:36):
你再回想一下
是不是那些没法发展那帮人
是都不是东北人哈哈
对啊 跟地域性也有一些关系的
嗯但是其他地方就比如我
我知道东北是对
我知道东北是这样的
比较比较喜欢开开放一些open一些的
嗯就也不能说完全open
就是说大方一些的
就是跟我们话来说
就是大方一些的东西

(47:56):
更能唠 对
那如果换成三生教育那帮
那就是那种云南
云贵川云川我不敢说云贵吧
他们有一个东西叫三生教育
嗯可以去查一下
然后他们是陌生人说话完全不搭理的
嗯
完全不搭理的
小孩
跟陌生人跟他们说话完全不搭理的
这个是我也是后来才知道的啊

(48:18):
所以他们的怎么说呢
可能小时候
从小时候开始的一个社交能力的培养
嗯就是要往这方面去
嗯就是侧重呀
嗯
所以才会导致他们有一些地域方面的
一些人可能会有一些内向
有一些外向等等等等
就是文化差异
没有文化差异

(48:39):
大概是地域的文化差异
是的
嗯因为我一直都感觉到
年纪越小
对嗯
他们括号用i人当借口越来越多
嗯就是很多
我们以前有一个实习
生 嗯
然后他就是
我就不喜欢聊天

(48:59):
我就是i人
然后maybe
他真的是i don't know
可是就很喜欢用这个借口
就说要不你发我一个Email吧
或是你发我一个啊
就文字方面发我一下
嗯 然后就不喜欢面对面沟通
嗯 他们感觉这个有压力
我说whatever就是感觉我不喜欢沟通

(49:19):
我个人觉得
不是 我是觉得现在社会的
嗯 这些圈子门槛变得越来越大
沟通的门槛成本越来越高
我说的一些
我有的时候觉得我的普通话OK的时候
跟一个年轻人说话
突然他们用的词跟我用的完全不一样
然后突然就

(49:41):
我知道你说的是中文 哈哈哈
可是连起来就是idea 哈哈哈
你都接触的什么人啊
我都没碰到这种情况
就他们用那些网上的一些
i have no idea what they're saying嗯
然后就哦 no
是不是不能沟通了
然后就按照这
成本就变得越来越高

(50:03):
你没有 你没有遇到过
我没遇到过
插个题外话
他们说什么
就网上 那网上用词吗
嗯 网上用的一些词
新的词 一些新的词
哦 我就在那边
this is i'm pretty sure
你还在说普通话
嗯 哈哈哈
可是i don't know what you said我
我有点这种感觉
就是有时候会碰到网上 呃

(50:25):
可能是朋友呀
他会突然间冒出一些几个汉字
我称之为汉字
嗯 嗯
比如说哦 哦
莫啊
自己很多朋友都跟我说
自己不明白啥意思啊
现在我只能理解他说
理解 类似于说哦
哇 哦
一样的一个感
应啊
后来我好像说好像是跟韩韩文有关系

(50:45):
是
是韩文就会有这种这种文化上的差异
因为我跟他们接触的这种
可能信息源不一样
对我跟韩国文化之类的东西
完全没有什么信息源的一样
嗯而他们可能是看些韩剧还是怎么着
看综艺还是怎么着的
嗯然后只要用列词
嗯即使是我中国人
我也会碰到这种情况呀
所以我就有的时候

(51:05):
我不会觉得这是什么代沟啊啥的
不我就觉得是没有我觉得是代购
哈哈哈
是是是
代购OK
OK
你可以说是就是
不同年龄层段人
他们接触的东西内容信息不一样
圈子也不一样
感兴趣的东西不一样
所以每个圈子就有他们自己的语言
导致有的时候我就跳不进去

(51:27):
我沟通不了
然后他们聊的哒哒哒
然后就啊就最简单的
我我朋友Aden他的女朋友是做音乐的
他们说的那些
嗯就是音乐创造者
我一个都不认识一个都不认识
我也然后他们就叭叭叭
然后就哦no完全就是切不进去

(51:47):
你插不进插不进去话插不进去话
对对对然后就我理解
呃我也就感觉嗯哦我maybe是i人
可是我不是i人我只是这狗
你不懂哈哈哈
我我觉得
我可以这么这么简单和你说一下
因为我从我运动也也不少年了呀
然后他们就是运动身材有起色的时候

(52:08):
他们会说
哎呀怎么怎么样
我也想和你去运动呀
然后我也我也想减肥
或者是怎么怎么样
这已经是很早很早以前的事情
了嗯然后我说
刚开始我还会和他们去科普
健身会给你带来什么
什么样减肥要怎么怎么样减
食谱要怎么怎么样
或者说甚做一个计划给他但是他不来

(52:29):
yes我也遇到这个
对啊他不来啊
所以说你再怎么科普没有用的嗯对吧
没有用的
你拉不就是
就像你说攀岩的拉不出来一样
在外边的你也拉不进来
呀呀这这是一个东西
嗯所以说然后另外一个呢
就是怎么说呢
啊有些时候我教就或者说搜索啊

(52:51):
交朋友啊
就是刚开始的一个期待值不会太高
嗯
因为我不知道你出了这个地方会怎么
就你是一个什么样的人
对你的内心想法是怎么样的
嗯你受到的教育是什么样的
你以后的观念是什么样的
我们可不可以聊到一块
或者是想到一块我们是不是一类人

(53:12):
嗯啊你是有多大的包容心
我是有怎么样的包容心
我能不能接受你的缺点
这些东西我都打个问号
对都不都打个问号
所以嗯我从最开始的一个
一个初衷吧
就是对我对我对你期待很少
并或者说
并没有期待我们长久的交交流了以后

(53:35):
可能我会尝试着和你进一步搜索
对也就是说我们可以一起去吃个饭
嗯或者说一起去溜达一下
喝杯咖啡聊一聊
那这个时候
就是
我进一步想和你去沟通的一个信号
嗯呃然后我们在聊天的途中
我就可以大致的去确认
我能不能去进一步和你

(53:58):
是是我可不可以也是同样说
他可不可以对这个一个东西
如果说像你说我像平时说的啊
我呃
像你以前的那些朋友说
我可能没有朋友了
逐渐逐渐逐渐少了
可能我们在淘汰别人
也可能是别人在淘汰我
当然是吧

(54:18):
对啊 都是彼彼此的
对啊 这是彼此的嘛
所以这所以从这个方面来说的话
这个怎么说呢
壁垒
打破壁垒的成本太高
嗯 打破壁垒的成本太高
然后淘汰的一些东西也太多
现在这这种
现在这个社会
每个人的想法都太独立了呀

(54:39):
太独立了
所以我们怎么说
我们本身也是一个独立的个人
没有办法去改变其他人的一些想法OK
对所以就是怎么说
我觉得这个东西
还是顺其自然会比较好
no 没有不要
不要去太纠结什么啊
我失去了什么或得到了什么

(55:00):
就去做就好了
我完全不同意
对 是我觉得
因为有那么多小群体
那你不一定打的进去
那你唯一的answer就是找更多量
就是你需要进来的人需要更多
你才能慢慢慢慢过滤
过滤过滤
过滤到你最底

(55:22):
就是最close的那些friend
在最下面
你需要过滤很多
以前没比过滤的少
可是现在
因为大家的群体都不一样
你需要过滤的很多
在最上面
然后慢慢慢慢就像你一样说的
吃个饭hang out
然后慢慢来
变成这些好朋友在最下面
最好的最close的朋友
嗯 需要很多人

(55:43):
你需要一直主动出去找
才能拥有这几个好朋友
因为因为这些好朋友都会离开你的
总有一天他们跑去别的国家
他们 跑去
回老家whatever都会离开你
对
那你这些人也是需要从最上面过滤
过滤过滤下来
嗯 所以你一直需要在上面添加

(56:04):
嗯 你才能有这3个
4个朋友
然后如果你少了一个
少了一个
你还是要从那最上面慢慢慢
慢慢过滤下来
嗯 导致你就一直需要主动在那边找
你才能啊
少一个 可是我还可以再添加
少一个 我还可以再添加
保持你的舒适的3个好朋友

(56:28):
两个好朋友
whatever it is嗯
可是如果你不在上面添加
你就只能有两个
然后until
从上面慢慢慢慢下来的
一个能回到三个
很难的 我觉得这过程就很难
很累 可是如果你不做
那你只会来做减法
对

(56:49):
但只会越来越难受
嗯 而不是越来越幸福
所以我觉得这些人
虽然他们括号是哀人
嗯
还是需要主动出去找朋友
找新的朋友
是的 保持你的三个好朋友at least
i人有些i人就是表面上的i人
对 然后

(57:09):
然后在在社交软件上
他们活跃的呀
天呐 好几个
我的天呐
呀 这现在社会
我觉得因为有手机就是有这个风险
他们以为社交软件上的social
就是和面对面的social完全不一样
其实完全不一样的
其实完全不一样的
他们应该尝试

(57:30):
嗯 也算了
他们愿意尝试
我们老了
未必未来就是只有网上的
没有线下的
嗯 我觉得这是一个弊端
但是这是一个趋势
哎呀
现在这是一个趋势
但是我觉得这个
但我会更期待一些新的科技的出现
能帮忙解决
这问题哎呀
比如说虚拟世界耶
哈哈哈哈哈

(57:50):
再再进一步
那种能够更真实的那种信息
就比如能不能让我们带个设备上去啊
然后远在远在几千米以外
几千公里以外的人
就仿佛坐站在面
坐在面前那样
我们这样这样坐下去交谈
那种感觉
我能随时时时看到你的表情
看你的反应动作
嗯 那种感觉
我是期待这样的嗯

(58:13):
我觉得这个比我们想象的远
你知道为什么吗
你知道为什么
我们这样子还是最理想的
因为不止是看到跟听到
嗯 你可以闻到这个人
你可以感受到
你可以碰到这个人
嗯 我觉得这些别的在科技上

(58:34):
现在只有眼睛跟耳朵
嗯 没有别的纹的东西
根本就数据化不了
对 更不要说碰到一个
嗯
这个就是两个很重要的扇子都没有
对
我有一个朋友跟我说
一个人的体味
嗯
如果你一开始闻到这个人就觉得反感

(58:54):
是有 你的system
是有一个东西已经排斥这个人了
你的你的基因在抗拒这个东西
对的
你基因核心就是在说有一个问题
you don't know what it is
可是是有
然后我们已经忘了很多这些
嗯 这些system
在你身体里面的一些本能反应
然后我们现在全部都依赖眼睛耳朵

(59:16):
可是我们有5个cents都可以用到
然后我们现在就是不用三个
基本上全部都依赖两个
嗯 我觉得还是很大的一个问题
就你们因为这些东西不能数据化
嗯 只能数据化视频里面的眼睛耳聋
对
所以还是有很
老远的才能替代这个面对面我觉得

(59:39):
嗯那我觉得还是面对面最好
it's the best
嗯
所以我从来不录那种线上的这种啊
这种interview永远都是必须要线下
对你就只能录上海的朋友
对对对
有很多人会通过上海
就上海最好的点就是很流通
嗯就经常有人从北京哎
我下周要来上海

(59:59):
要不我们录一期啊
我要我你说我要飞
嗯泰国我需要停一下上海
要不我们录一期
然后我再飞走
都有所以我就还蛮
我觉得上海作为一个Hub还是很有
我我
我觉得我们两个以后可以经常来录
录一下子
哈哈哈唠啥
我我觉得我们今天录的特别好

(01:00:20):
完全没问题
对瞎聊了这么这么久
也聊了还蛮多
我没有想象会聊到的东西
对啊我觉得我比较发散
对对对我我我觉得可以多聊一聊
多多聊聊天也也也OK的嗯
OK好
今天就录到这边吧
OK啊
大家有空的话点个你的你的

(01:00:41):
小红书啊care吗
我不我不care
raven你care吗
我不care
OK不care
那你们想找他们在小红书上慢慢找吧
OK哈哈哈OK好
拜拜拜拜
拜拜
OK everyone, today is Raven & Daijin
Hello, hello.
What we want to talk about today is
do you two still climb?
Of course.
I might go climbing after the interview.
Ha ha ha ha ha.
Just finished climbing.
How often do you climb now?
It's still high.
It's still high.
Yes, relatively high.
Relatively high.
I used to see you often.
But now I don't know what's going on.
Is there too much climbing gym?
I think there are more climbing gyms
I used to feel that every time I entered a gym,
I know everyone
Most of them were familiar.
Now, when I enter a gym,
Well, unless we planned to come with people
It's hard to see some familiar people.
I feel that
Is it the environment that has changed or what's going on?
Do you have any ideas?
As far as I know,
I used to know friends I met in the climbing gym
they are still climbing.
You're right.
I haven't met them in the past one or two years.
Then the thing is obviously that there are too many climbing gyms.
Everyone tends to choose the closer ones.
I'm like this.
I'm closer to home.
and the slightly farther ones, like Pudong,
I almost never go there.
So,
It may be because of this geographical difference,
and then choose the closer places.
So we may meet less.
What about you, brother, what do you think?
I think it's all right.
Because I've been going to the climbing gym to bump into people
I rarely go out with friends
or go somewhere together or something.
As for climbing gym, there are more
I see fewer people and know fewer people.
It's true.
But
I think these things are indeed as you said.
There are more climbing gym
and we rarely make appointments.
And then, how to say, we don't see each other often.
to see each other.
Because you are relatively
you are a relatively small number of people.
I had a yearly membership for a while.
Yes.
Where is the annual card?
I had a yearly membership at V Four.
Was it close? You weren't close to V Four.
Not close, not close.
How?
He has an annual card.
I have it.
Then basically I think if I run to vfour
I can basically meet 点哥
Because they are basically there.
But now I don't have
Basically, none of my friends have annual passes.
And then I run around everywhere,
so I can't meet them.
I feel like some of my friends
we can't make an appointment in the same gym.
Everyone has it.
I'm going to this climbing gym today or tomorrow.
and our schedules don't match.
Yeah, now
I have experienced three stages.
Since I graduated from college,
I don't know anyone from this side of Shanghai climbing group either
Well, I chose a climbing class nearby, a climbing gym.
It was next to Donghua University at that time.
Then over there I tried to buy the sub-card 55 times
Oh my god, it's so expensive.
Yes.
How much was it?
I can't remember the price of fifty-five times.
It should be three, four, five thousand.
Oh my god.
I only went to this studio.
I didn't go anywhere else.
Then the second gym I went to was pongo.
I met some people from there.
And since I went to Fat Dog,
new gyms opened one after another.
Beta, um, neverest, um, and then these gyms opened
Then behind
Beta also opened relatively at that time.
But it was about a year later than Beta.
Then I started visiting other gyms.
I went to other places.
I went to climb twice a week,
I started to go more often because I met more people.
I went to climb more.
I had a stronger desire to climb.
I went three or four times a week.
to different gyms.
Because we could experience different gyms
different lines, we can experience the freshness.
So we would say
we will go to the one with new pipes.
With the emergence of new pipes,
after new pipes are added,
we must go to the store
to feel the freshness.
Then we can have a long period of time
three or four times a week.
Yes.
Then the second stage lasted for about two or three years.
And now it's like, oh,
I think I may have climbed too much.
Ha ha ha.
Accumulate all kinds of injuries for yourself.
and so on, without sufficient rest.
and so on.
I became twice a week,
or even once.
Because I've been injured recently,
so I only climb once a week.
This is so true.
There is such a stage.
once a week.
How do you choose the routes now?
Now, because of my knee injury,
I tend to go to the difficult climbing gym.
Boss, I used to like bouldering very much.
Because bouldering can shoot videos in style, the visual effect is particularly good
Ha ha ha.
You don't have to be so elegant.
I just like to say that.
How do you say it?
Sassy?
So what about you? How do you think you should choose a gym? Now?
I'll go wherever the routes are new, ha ha ha.
It's all about freshness.
It's freshness.
I'll go to the other side when they change lines.
Is it because of making videos?
I rarely do it now.
I also think you used to shoot Xiaohongshu without anything.
And now I shoot less videos.
I don't shoot much now.
Now, this is not about documenting some of my climbs.
It's just a record of my climbing process.
I make videos now just for my dad to watch.
It's just that simple.
It's that simple.
For my dad.
and my mom.
Why are they really interested?
Oh.
Oh.
I don't know.
I don't know how much they are interested in my climbing.
But what they are interested in is me.
It's like telling them that I'm safe.
Your son is fine and healthy.
and can still climb walls.
That's enough.
You can also tell your family
I'm still climbing walls,
I'm in good health or something.
Don't worry about me.
That's about it.
Because, how to say,
Before I started climbing,
I really liked making videos for a while.
I remember.
After I finished filming,
I would update it at that time.
It was updated once every one or two weeks.
I updated very frequently.
And then for a while,
how to say,
I was injured or something.
I can't remember.
Then for about a month, I didn't update.
Then my parents asked me what happened.
Uh-huh.
Is there anything wrong?
Why don't you shoot anymore?
And then later,
I said, okay, I'm fine now.
I just haven't filmed recently.
But I couldn't tell them that I was injured,
or something else happened,
or something else.
I just haven't filmed recently.
Then they will know that I
they will be very concerned about it.
Yeah, I just want to.
Except for phone calls
texts and videos through WeChat,
these things.
I want to see me in some videos
to see me in the videos I post.
They want to see these things.
Then I'll just take some videos for them.
Now my
KPI doesn't mean how many times I go to the rock gym
or how difficult lines I climbed,
After I climb the line,
I just need to report to them that I'm safe.
That's it.
Because we
this.
Yes, because now, how can I say,
I don't really like making phone calls.
or WeChat messages.
Especially I hate voice calls.
Yeah.
So
When my parents actually send me a voice call,
my first reaction is
No matter who
No matter who sends me a voice call,
I'm very disgusted.
I'm very disgusted.
It is an existence like an i person
Yes, I am. I am human.
This is the first time I've heard of introvert from Northeast China.
There are some stereotypes.
I E can be converted.
It depends on the situation.
But if you ask me,
you say us,
such as this way of conversation.
let's solve it by phone.
Well, I refuse.
You know what I mean.
You like face to face offline.
or face to face.
or just have a quick chat on WeChat.
Where to cut it.
Actually, I prefer
meet in person.
Or we are on Iwadate Street
or we can go eat,
or go for coffee, that's all right.
But not on the phone.
It's the same with my parents.
I basically
basically everyone who sends me a voice call
I do the same.
It's for work.
There's no way.
Work is work.
to earn that little bit of grievance fee.
That's it.
That's the thing.
So, how to say,
So family members can see
other than WeChat,
to see another side of me.
I think.
If they like it,
I'll just film it and show them.
Besides my parents,
other family members can also see it.
It's good.
It's a different way to report safety.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think it's actually quite inspiring.
Even for me,
for me.
this is also for many family members to see.
They want to know what changes have happened to me in China.
Yes.
And they feel that when I first came to China,
I was very American.
my personality was very American.
And then slowly,
you can see a change in me.
So they are also a little interested.
But what do you think?
So what is your purpose of climbing now?
Because if it's not for progress,
to meet some friends?
Or what is the purpose of this?
Now, because everyone seems to have some steps,
At first, I really wanted to improve,
Then after a V few, suddenly it slows down
and reach a bottleneck, and then the goal changes.
What level are you at now?
What's your mentality?
As for me now,
two years ago, I would have said
I took a course.
I took the course and said I want to grow.
I can climb to level one three one four.
I want to climb V five and V six smoothly.
So I took the course.
But later,
I felt that it was really hard to break through the bottleneck.
Then my mentality became more stable.
I just hope that
I just hope to be happy and joyful.
On the one hand, I can maintain a long-term exercise habit.
On the other hand,
I can also use this habit
to meet friends I met through rock climbing
to search for friends.
So these are the two main ways.
Well, these are the two main purposes.
You？
I just climb for the sake of climbing.
and don't want to improve.
Progress.
You said you didn't want to improve when you first started climbing.
that's a lie.
Yes.
From past to present,
Actually, I have
I have a clear understanding of my own
I have a clear understanding of my abilities.
If I want to improve,
It's basically impossible to reach the top.
I've reached the limit.
So how to say,
Just like working out, it's a habit.
Just develop a habit.
and keep it interesting.
and a little social attribute.
Well, I think that's enough.
Anyway, I have nothing to do at home.
It's good because I have nothing else to do at home.
Before rock climbing, I also tried some other things.
and many other activities.
Of course, most of them
some related to sports and some not.
Like
such as script killing and werewolf.
I've actually tried them once.
After trying them once, I directly gave up.
Why do you both like it?
OK, why do I think this
this thing.
I already use up a lot of brain cells at work.
After work, I have to shout.
and I have to spend my brain cells with you here.
I feel sorry for that, it was also quite brain-consuming.
Uh, it's different.
It's different.
And then what else?
Well, archery, fighting,
or swimming, and frisbee.
Actually, I've been to them once or twice.
I have the desire to go again.
or third time.
Well, let's start with rock climbing first.
Later, I tried cycling.
What about cycling?
I'm riding by myself now.
I think personally,
is not related to socializing.
I'm happy with myself.
Then climbing is the one that remains.
Well, it can have a little social interaction.
or just to climb for the sake of climbing.
It can also be to meet new friends.
or to maintain
my physical fitness.
That's it.
And occasionally I can take a video to show off.
Nothing else.
Well, what do you two think
why you still stay in this circle?
What else attracts you to rock climbing?
Do you think this social can really keep this group of people?
It's because you already have friends here,
and a circle of friends,
You still want to see them, so they are here.
They keep pulling you back and won't let you go.
I feel like I enjoy the process of searching.
and the process of searching.
And then,
But I didn't deliberately pursue this thing.
It's just a natural thing that I went.
I can enjoy the fun of others.
And I can also chat with them.
And I feel
Because I was injured some time ago
I didn't climb much for two months.
I felt a little at a loss.
After work,
I should go to the studio.
But at this time, I was sitting at home
I didn't know what to do.
I thought
as if I had lost my direction in life.
Ha ha ha, I have a little bit of this feeling.
And this thing is that
several of my friends also told me similar experiences.
They often just get injured and stay at home.
They just stay at home
and couldn't go out, and didn't know what to do.
or lost their jobs,
They have nothing to do.
And then they also lost a direction.
Yeah.
Some of them lost their jobs and became unemployed,
they only climbed once or twice a week.
On days when they don't climb,
they don't know what to do.
I have quite a few friends,
so for me,
climbing becomes a
a pillar in my life.
and pillar.
It gives me a sense of presence.
OK, how about you?
Climbing.
Why do you still stay in this circle?
I've never been in the circle.
I'm outside the circle.
You are in the circle.
Five.
I'm on the edge.
I am on the edge.
I'm not in the circle.
Actually, there is no such thing as a circle.
Circle.
Now I think there was one before.
I don't.
At the beginning, that group of people
the old study partners must have a circle.
Then they all started to open gyms.
Now there are some circles in each gym.
there are still some.
It just depends on whether you participate or not.
Now I think if you say that,
I have never been in a circle.
I just say I will participate.
Well, OK, what keeps you
why do you still choose rock climbing?
Because you have gone through a long process.
We all
We have probably tried many other sports and hobbies.
Yes.
Why do you choose to stay in rock climbing?
I've been pursuing rock climbing.
Because it relieves stress.
Because it relieves stress.
Really?
Yes.
But I don't make progress.
Where is the decompression?
Because I'm not obsessed with progress,
嗯
I can use this to relieve stress and vent.
and vent.
If you are obsessed with progress,
you say you want to reach a certain level in a few years,
and you keep working hard,
but you can't reach it, then you will be more stressed.
But I don't have a strong desire to
I want to make progress.
that kind of thing.
So I think it's okay.
But when I go, it's quite decompressing.
It's like a rock climbing and lying flat.
It's both rock climbing and lying flat.
It's just a way to relieve stress.
It's just decompression.
You know.
It's quite relaxing for me.
I often hear and use the saying that
It is said that climbing can help me
prevent mental illness and depression.
Really?
Is there such a saying?
Do you think so?
I think it's very likely.
I can't prove it because there's no evidence.
But I can imagine
why they say that.
Because climbing is not just about using your brain.
but also a little bit of progress.
and then there is a social environment.
It feels like you have a small society here.
This circle makes you feel like you have a sense of presence,
and friends.
and everything.
Everything people need is basically here.
And when we are climbing,
when we are on the wall,
we are very focused.
we only think about what to do next.
Even if we succeed this time, I fail.
I didn't talk to the people around me.
I just looked at the wall and thought.
I was still focused on this thing.
This thing
seems to be the so-called flow state.
state.
After going through this process,
I completed a route.
I feel a sense of achievement.
I think this kind of thing can also be of great help.
which is very helpful for our mental health.
This is why I keep liking fighting.
Yes.
Because I think fighting really makes me one hundred percent focused.
Actually, I don't feel that way about rock climbing.
Because when I climb,
I can still think about work.
some things.
Even on the wall,
I have some points to rest.
But when you take a break in fighting,
you think about the PPT,
your face will be slapped suddenly.
but you are met.
I have never had this experience.
This kind of thing is really dangerous.
If you start to be distracted,
you'll be beaten and hit immediately.
and crushed.
So I really like
In combat, you can only focus one hundred percent on it.
Climbing.
Sometimes I think I can just sit there
think about something else,
so you don't need to focus so much.
You said it doesn't need so much concentration.
Do you stand when you climb?
Are you on the wall?
But when I get down, I don't think so.
I'm pulled back.
I'm pulled back.
But when you're in a fight,
you don't have much time.
I said five minutes for each round.
Then you may have a thirty-second break.
Another five minutes.
There is never a stop.
Thirty seconds break for five minutes.
Oh, we have a thirty-second break every five minutes.
Five minutes with thirty seconds break.
哦
You mean it's like a competition,
It's like in class,
Yes, it's practical.
Basically, five minutes of rest, five minutes of rest.
Yes.
The intervals are shorter.
We have a very short break.
In theory, when taking photos,
we can do the same thing.
It's still okay.
But only that
no one forces us to do this.
Yes.
and no one is there to beat you up.
Yes.
Yes yes yes.
But you still need to be focused on the wall.
Yes, you must be focused on the wall.
otherwise you will fall down immediately.
or
or when climbing difficult routes,
We spend about ten minutes on the wall.
You also need to focus, including the belayer.
Look at the belayer above.
I think they should be more focused.
So when I'm being protected,
I often feel like
I can take a break.
and then take a break.
and then I can stop for a while.
I feel that they are protecting me anyway,
I can sit for a while,
and take a look,
and take a break before starting again.
You can relax on the wall.
Even when I take a break while climbing,
Because I'm a little afraid of heights.
I am too.
when I'm swinging,
my whole heart is actually very uncomfortable.
Then it's okay.
even if I'm hanging on,
when I'm not swinging,
I'm also thinking about
what I should do at the next point,
what action?
Why didn't I pass just now?
Why did I fall just now?
Was it because of lack of strength?
Was it the wrong move or the lack of strength?
I will always focus on the things I will think about.
I don't ever just zone out up there.
Rarely, I don't care.
I don't care.
Just pass it and that's it.
Tired, I'm done.
So you are more laid-back.
You just say you don't have.
You don't say you really want to achieve it.
the line.
I don't have that feeling.
Very rarely.
I was improving.
I didn't have that feeling at that time.
I must pass it.
Why?
You lack
You need something that can suddenly protrude from the wall
something that hits you in the face.
Maybe.
It's not his.
This part we use for climbing
This spirit is used in combat.
So it's different.
It's not the same.
Because I think
I think I've been looking at this thing for a long time.
Just.
As long as you keep in this circle, you will definitely improve.
and you will definitely improve if you keep cultivating it.
It's just that the progress is relatively slow.
That's okay.
I think I've been looking at this thing
for ten or twenty years,
it's no problem.
And then the people around me will gradually leave,
But I'm still here, and I'm still making progress.
I will be better than you one day.
Because you will quit.
I won't quit.
This is my idea.
He said he seems to want to invest.
Ha ha ha.
As long as you are on the field,
you will always get rewards.
There is no such thing as no progress.
Maybe I may not make progress,
How to say?
Let me put it in the most thorough way.
I may progress slowly,
or not, but I won't regress.
Yes, I won't.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, no matter what, I won't regress.
I think this is already good enough for me.
Yeah.
So I have no requirements for this.
I must make progress.
my tendency might be a little different.
I believe in so-called deliberate training.
so I think
When I focus more on doing something,
we can
For example, if I climb the same route as you,
I think when I focus on it deliberately,
I might make progress more easily.
Definitely.
Yes, so I tend to do this.
Ah ha.
But there is also a possibility.
You have other sports you also do.
But for me,
I mainly focus on rock climbing, nothing else.
So I just belong to my
my focus is on rock climbing.
Actually, I invited you in because
I think many people
you both prefer rock climbing.
But I play everything.
Why did you decide to focus on just one thing?
not doing more sports.
Actually, I have tried other sports.
But for other sports,
it's more of a search.
It's really more of a search.
For example, going swimming.
like skateboarding, or hiking.
Swimming is the least social activity.
Swimming doesn't require searching.
Yes, swimming is zero social.
Unless you are taking someone with you,
there is basically no search.
Swimming.
Swimming, because I'm not very good at it.
Actually, I don't swim like this.
swim back and forth.
We don't swim very well either.
After swimming to one side,
we really need to take a one or two-minute break
we would take a break and chat a little.
Yeah, and there is another process.
It's like we go together and walk together.
in the same space.
I think it's also a part.
Because
At least in English, there is a saying called Jack of all trades.
which means he knows many things,
but not good at any of them.
And some people are very focused
focusing on one thing, which is vertical.
I'm more inclined to know a little bit of everything.
And then each thing is at a medium level.
They are all at the medium level.
I think this is more comprehensive.
Yes.
But many people like to focus on one thing.
and do it very deeply.
Sometimes I feel that
now society requires you to do something deeply.
instead of being broad.
嗯
You two obviously have a deep understanding of your field.
And then other things are just
Don't really care.
I don't think it's necessary to go this far.
First of all, I don't feel that society requires me
I don't feel any pressure in life to say that
I must be good at something.
But I feel that
if I devote enough time and effort
I spend enough time on it,
and do it well enough,
then I seem to have more rewards.
OK.
As for other sports,
I think there are other costs involved.
Time, energy, and even money.
You also need to spend a lot of money on equipment.
So I tend to say it's mainly dialect.
Well, you too? No, I'm not.
I'm not at all.
What are you?
I'm avoiding some unnecessary searches
and garbage people.
Let me give you an example.
such as rock climbing.
I can go alone.
There is no one in climbing gym
I can climb alone.
That's right, right?
I don't need others to be my sparring partner,
or interact with others.
I can play by myself.
It's okay.
It's self-entertainment.
But if I switch to other sports, like
For example, football, you need to organize a game.
rugby, basketball,
you have to form a team before you can play.
And in Shanghai,
these are relatively high-cost sports.
Yes.
are very expensive.
Football and basketball are also very expensive.
It's because of the venue fee,
costs场地费,
and time, right?
And you have to form a team.
And at our age,
you must have rotations.
And in that case,
you must have a team of one and a half.
you must have at least one.
First, it's hard to gather people.
Secondly,
you can also go to the climbing gym
to bump into acquaintances.
The same goes for basketball and football.
you can bump into people.
But the uncontrollable factor is that there are too many hooligans.
basketball hooligans,
and football hooligans.
What?
Besides, when we go rock climbing,
there is no so-called confrontation between people.
Most of our injuries
I can say that most of the injuries in rock climbing now
I can say that more than ninety percent of injuries are caused by carelessness.
You don't know.
Yeah.
You don't know yourself.
Right?
For football and basketball,
and other sports that require
and those that require interaction with others
seem not to be like this.
It's uncontrollable.
It's uncontrollable.
and it may be malicious.
It's malicious.
Besides, if you are very close friends,
you two collide with each other,
You hurt him.
You have to
You have to pay him if you hurt him.
Yeah.
If you can't negotiate this well,
you won't be friends anymore.
I understand what you mean.
I think the risk is too high.
Various risks.
So,
I think it's better to play by yourself.
Don't you think it's like this, ha ha.
It's hard to find.
The threshold for everyone is getting higher and higher.
The threshold for everything.
The threshold for being friends.
The threshold for everything is getting higher.
Because dormitory,
What aspect does high threshold mean?
It feels like if I don't dare to play football anymore.
I feel that the threshold is high.
When I was young, everyone
we had a basketball court.
we just played casually without any rules.
No need to accompany.
or I need someone to accompany me.
I think the facilities
there weren't so many facilities and场地.
and there are many people using it, which is a resource issue.
and resource allocation.
In the case you mentioned,
there may be a court,
but not many people go there.
People come and go, you just go there anytime.
and there are people there, you can just join in.
That's right.
but now they are all paid venues.
You need to book a time slot in advance and go there.
Then you can use it.
Too many people.
So the cost here is very high.
I think the main problem is in this aspect.
The communication cost is high.
The communication cost is high.
Another thing is that even when you were a child,
if we just compare our childhood
compared to when we grow up,
If you said you didn't like playing football with someone,
you just don't play with him.
you wouldn't play with him, right?
But we can't seem to do it now.
Why can't we do that?
It's hard to do.
It's hard to do.
That's the reality.
But more people should make it easier to do.
What? More people make it harder.
Yeah, you said,
If I join you, would you refuse or accept me?
I know what you mean.
That's the case.
And then when we were young,
I'm talking about the high level.
if you have conflicts,
just fight him.
Yeah.
Can you do it when you grow up?
Can you do it now?
Now you
You know the cost of doing it now, right?
So this is also a consideration for me.
So this
I think it's okay to go with a few friends.
and they are good friends.
But we can't seem to get together like this.
we can't get together.
Even if we invite everyone,
we still can't gather enough people.
So, there are too many things to do.
So forget it.
This is not for me.
And it's not suitable for me with confrontation.
It may be a common problem in big cities.
It's a common problem.
The common problem is that
too many people,
and there's not enough time.
Time is not enough.
This only happens in big cities.
Yeah.
Because when I returned to the United States,
I went to their jiu-jitsu gym in New Jersey.
They report every day.
Those people report every day.
I asked him why he came here.
Nothing else to do.
Yes.
I have no other opportunities to do other hobbies.
Basically, this is the only one nearby.
I had to come here.
And my friends were there, so I reported every day.
Yeah.
I can do anything in Shanghai.
I have so many other things to do.
On duty.
Why do I have to choose one?
So many people are very dedicated there.
I just keep training twice or three times a day.
I've become much better here.
But they don't care.
I'll give up.
You don't need it.
I don't pay today.
We are members,
We come every day and pay every day.
So it doesn't matter if you don't pay once.
It's very relaxed.
I really like the environment.
It feels more human.
Everything here is charged.
Everything is in order.
It's necessary.
Because there are too many people.
Yes.
Yes, you see me.
Sometimes I feel that there are many friendly cities.
It's not very human.
Well, I don't.
but I still like it.
I can play whatever I want.
Tough.
Let me ask you because I have to go back to you.
I think
Hmm.
it's good that you play many things.
Because I think many movements are universal.
For example, I've been playing Muay Thai recently.
Your low sweep in Muay Thai is actually the same as
and Dino are actually the same.
Your hips turn from one side to the other.
and then you jump and flip to the wall.
Actually, these movements are universal.
But many people only practice one thing.
maybe you don't feel it,
You may follow some movements.
But when you play this thing,
and then come back and find that
I seem to have got the same movements.
Yes, so I like to play with many different things.
And then when I come back,
I seem to have made progress here.
Why don't you go to some other places
and practice this more.
and then come back.
I think the time cost,
costs of time, money, and energy.
I have to spend more time learning something.
Isn't it fun? Isn't the process fun?
Another thing is
Path dependence.
I'm familiar with this thing.
I tend to keep doing what I'm familiar with.
but sometimes some unfamiliar activities
Sometimes I don't even think about it.
Yeah.
it also has something to do with the people around me.
Ah ha.
I will try.
Everyone around me is rock climbing.
So how could I want to do other sports?
I would.
Ha ha ha.
It's possible.
It's because you used to live in the US
and you have enough various activities
to try.
You have tried them.
Because there are many people around you playing different things.
Uh.
So you can have one
have a bass,
have a bass.
you just like playing more.
But for us,
we may have always been in a certain circle.
the climbing circle.
Have you ever thought about jumping out of it?
I actually want to play fighting recently.
and then decided not to.
But this thing,
I think for adults,
you want to do something
and actually doing it,
the resistance to starting the process
is quite big.
For me, yeah.
I think the advantage of Shanghai is that
you can just do it.
whether it's Dianping or ClassPass,
and choose one.
After work today,
Let's go.
Let's go.
I have never felt a coach say that I
I can't learn this.
or this has a threshold.
I can't just feel
Let's go, let's try, who knows?
I don't have that much time.
I don't have so much time after work.
Ming, I still have some time left for the next part.
I allocate it to other things.
Ah ha.
I climb twice a week, and
and then I go to the gym.
I also go.
Yes.
Then I go to search for hands with others.
You have to go back.
with my girlfriend.
I don't have enough time.
Even if I want to try other sports,
I also want to keep what I have now.
That's greedy, right?
I know, but it means I have to make a choice.
I have to sacrifice.
Then I thought I had to sacrifice rock climbing.
No.
I don't have any other ideas.
I'm just lazy.
Lazy.
Ha ha ha.
I feel happy when I climb, hum.
Uh.
Then I think I can continue because this happiness is familiar.
and it's easy to obtain.
Then,
Then I think it's okay for the time being.
there's no need to try something else.
And I'm lazy.
If one day I can't get
I can't get the happiness I want.
I can't relieve stress,
or other situations,
and prevent me from climbing,
or something else,
I might try something else.
And then go vertical, as you just said.
and go deeper into it.
deepen it.
But currently,
I have no other ideas, so I'll just climb first.
I'll still climb.
Just be happy, even if it's a single happiness.
Just be happy.
Yeah, that's the case.
And during the week, I'm at work,
there are also some other things that bind me.
Now I go
I go to the gym after work.
I can't go to the gym alone.
I have to bring my colleagues to the gym together.
It's like a task,
It's not a task,
It's also like a task.
I treat it as a task.
Although later,
may not continue soon,
But for now, I still want to keep it this way.
I don't want to break this inherent cycle.
Because I'm a bit monotonous
and I'm used to it.
In that cycle,
in a fixed cycle,
cycle and cycle.
I think it's okay.
there are always one or two points that make me happy.
Well, just be happy.
Whether it is repeated or not,
I'm used to it and I won't change it easily.
Well, this is the case, okay.
Gain the greatest happiness with the least effort.
I understand.
Yes, any change takes energy.
Yes, but.
My point of rebuttal is that I think
Shanghai is a very mobile city.
Many people come in and stay for a few years.
Yes, it's more fluid.
And sometimes I think that
if you don't actively seek more circles
or more friends,
your friends will keep disappearing.
Then you need to be very proactive
to find more people to pull to your side,
Otherwise, you will always be subtracting.
and you will have no friends.
Then it's too late when you realize this.
Um.
The most obvious one is actually foreigners.
because foreigners stay the shortest time.
And then I saw most of my friends.
I asked them why they left.
They feel lonely and have no friends.
You said your foreign friends.
I don't think it's our problem, really?
It's not our problem.
It's not our problem.
For example, in my case,
just for climbing,
as long as I keep doing rock climbing,
I really find that there are always new people coming in.
It's actually quite easy to meet someone.
It's easy for everyone.
In the climbing gym, I feel the atmosphere is very good.
Yes, you don't need any communication.
you don't need to introduce yourself.
and then everyone, you and I are climbing the same line.
how you climb.
It's like we are doing the same thing.
there is a connection between us.
as if there is a connection.
We have a common context.
Even if I
have never met before,
but
and start talking about how you do that move.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, so I don't worry.
I'm just doing a hobby,
a hobby of rock climbing,
and then they will say that I will stop doing it later.
my friends will decrease.
I don't worry about this problem.
I'm not worried.
For me,
is different.
Well, you might think that
the friends you mentioned earlier
they will leave because of that.
because their friends left.
or something like that.
But for them,
from their perspective, it's the same.
From their perspective,
may also be decreasing.
One example, okay?
So, if you think about it from another perspective,
I think it's all a normal thing.
Even if you have more friends,
it doesn't mean you don't take the initiative to contact them.
After having more friends, you schedule them one by one.
it may take a long time.
They may think you are drifting away from them.
and there will be a missing link.
The same thing happens when you have a large circle.
If your circle is small,
Well, there are fewer friends to compare.
Less.
How to say?
Friends who are far away
and fewer very close friends.
But these are also
You can't say
You can't say that if you think they will last, they will.
Due to objective reasons,
won't allow you to have so many
subjective ideas and things.
So I think it's better to go with the flow.
I welcome you when you come and send you off when you leave.
If you don't take the initiative,
I will also take the initiative.
That is to say,
I really want to meet a girl in the climbing gym.
or something.
A girl, or a guy, or both,
I'd like to meet more girls,
Especially the pretty ones.
Okay, then go and meet her.
There's no problem.
I mean those who have to inquire
or anything else about her.
or what's up with this girl,
Whether she has a boyfriend or girlfriend around.
If you want to know, just go and talk to her.
I agree.
If you want to know her, just talk to her.
If he shows resistance, then move on to the next one.
Next one, me, me.
I agree with Raven's idea and yours.
It's easy to meet new people in climbing gym
Yeah.
How many people do you think you met at climbing gym?
and really become good friends.
Quite a lot.
For me, really.
Yeah.
You see, you still got a girlfriend in the climbing gym?
That's enough.
Well, I really think it's few.
Well, I think a lot of the people I met at climbing gym
I can't even finish talking to them.
I think it depends on
if you meet them after you know them,
and often hang out together.
hang out.
It's in the climbing gym
I think we have no problem.
But I just feel like I'm a friend of climbing gym
Yeah.
You need to take these people out to do other things.
No, it feels like these people are just staying in the rock hall
Friends.
And there's nothing more.
As soon as I leave the climbing gym, there is nothing to talk about
No, we can't talk about anything else.
Yeah, the things on the wall.
Suddenly, this person feels empty.
There's nothing else to talk about.
I often encounter
I think it's because
we don't know each other well enough,
and we don't know each other well enough.
Maybe.
Yeah.
But I think
these people are hard to go to the next step.
Many of them can't go further.
You mean the friends you met in the climbing gym, right?
Because most climbers are short,
Yes.
Ha ha ha.
I think many climbers can't pull out the rope.
Yes.
Because one of the most obvious characteristics of I people
is that they focus on one thing.
Whether it's a hobby or focus,
or something they like,
and they are also focused on things they hate.
They are also very focused on
and it's also very fixed.
You know, maybe they just hate it.
They hate searching, ha ha ha.
But how to say,
There is a contradictory thing.
They hate searching,
but they desire a little bit of searching.
They definitely need it.
Yes, they do.
Humans need this thing.
However,
they don't need as much as others do.
But they
But their needs are also relatively
how to say,
Yes.
There are a small number of people who have strong needs.
I only need a single one.
just a few searches.
But most of them can't do that.
but most of them can't.
That is, if they step out of this circle,
they may become someone who doesn't know anything.
illiterate.
Ha ha ha.
That is,
It seems that all I think about is climbing.
I can talk to you.
Yes.
I can't talk about anything else.
What to talk about?
or even work, we can't even talk about it together.
So sometimes I feel that
some people I met in the climbing gym
can only talk about climbing.
Yeah.
But once we talk about other things,
and suddenly we can't be friends.
It feels like we can't go any further.
Yeah, we can keep talking about climbing in the gym.
how to climb this line.
I agree with these.
I think it's easy to
is to take the first step.
But maybe the second step, and then lost.
I feel that
many rock points.
has a ceiling.
Our depth can only go this far.
That's it.
There are some people
or some people
really
who really won't stop.
Yes.
I know how to
We did meet through rock climbing,
but how can we continue this conversation?
or
whether I want to take this relationship further.
He doesn't know these methods.
Well, for many people,
not only this kind of friendship,
and I think
but also in love.
I know how to pursue someone.
and then
what to do after I've caught up with someone.
Okay, no one tells me how to do it.
Okay.
what to do next?
Next, yeah, okay.
I confessed to you.
Uh.
我我
I have a feeling that
I confessed to you.
Okay, you accepted.
嗯 好
We are boyfriend and girlfriend.
So what's the next step?
Hold hands.
Holding hands right away.
Yes.
I know
You say.
Specific actions.
I know, but how should we get along later?
It's exactly the same.
Yes.
I don't know what to do.
Well,
No one has ever talked about this.
No one has taught this.
Do you know where I think the problem is?
Uh.
Do you have an older brother?
No.
Sister?
I'm an only child.
That's why I think you have.
You have older siblings.
It's really helpful.
Because they can tell you how to communicate with girls.
Yes.
how to communicate with girls.
Well, I don't have such people to tell me.
And maybe some friends who are older than you
many of my swimming team members taught me.
They are
Those who are a few years older than me.
They will say,
the girl you like.
they will tell you what to do.
and then they'll talk.
and then say a lot of them are useless.
but there are a few things that are useful.
Uh-huh.
Then those guys who are older than you will teach you.
I think this is the biggest gain in my childhood.
Well, OK.
Maybe you can think about it again
and speculate on those friends you said were difficult to progress
Friends I met in the climbing gym
whether they are also only children.
Ha ha ha.
Yes, the post-nineties and eighties generation are all
are all only children.
For us,
our social skills
may be limited.
No one taught us.
or enough experience.
But the younger ones have even less.
I think the post-zero generation
are a lot of people
who have no idea how to socialize.
Except through mobile phones,
they don't know how to chat.
That's right.
Yes, they're terrible.
我
I've met too many young people
I don't know if it's because of their age
or the problem of purchasing on behalf of others,
They can only communicate through mobile phones.
They don't know anything.
Then you talk to them face to face.
They're lost.
They can't speak.
Yes.
Oh my god.
You have to consider
maybe.
maybe they really don't have enough experience
or enough life experience
to communicate with you.
Oh my god.
I, I am a purchasing agent.
I will think it is.
I'll buy it for you.
Someone.
I don't think this is called purchasing on behalf of others.
Because I grew up in Northeast China,
Parents or adults in Northeast China
they are very caring for children.
But they have one thing,
they especially like generous children.
OK.
Generous means
Well, children, you dare to speak.
Yes, you can speak.
Yes.
You can take the initiative to tell them your demands.
and take the initiative to
and tell them what the child is thinking.
what I'm thinking now.
This is also a generous way of communication.
This kind of thing
I like Northeasterners.
Yes.
This is something that everyone likes since childhood.
It's a way for children to communicate.
Yes.
Yes, yes, yes.
So this thing
it is also regional.
But if you replace it with the three-life education in Yunnan,
it would be completely different.
Because in Shanghai,
Think about it again.
are those who can't develop
are not from Northeast China.
Yeah, it's also related to regional differences.
But in other places, for example,
I know Northeast China is like this.
I know that in Northeast China,
They are more open-minded.
It's not completely open,
which means more generous.
In our words,
which means more generous.
They are more talkative.
If it were the Three Lives Education,
like in Yunnan,
Yunnan, Guizhou, Sichuan, Yunnan, Guizhou.
they have something called Three Lives Education.
You can check it out.
They don't talk to strangers at all.
Yes.
They don't talk to strangers.
Children
and they don't talk to strangers at all.
I only found out about this later.
So what can we say about them?
maybe since childhood,
a social skill development since childhood.
It's about focusing on this aspect.
They focus on it.
Yes.
So it leads to some regional differences.
Some people may be introverted,
and some are extroverted, and so on.
It's cultural differences.
Without cultural differences,
cultural differences in different regions.
Yes.
Because I have always felt that
the younger they are,
Yes.
They use the i person in parentheses as an excuse more and more
Yes, a lot.
We had an intern
Yes.
and he just
I don't like chatting.
I am the i person
Maybe
I don't know.
But he really liked to use this excuse.
He would say, why don't you send me an email?
or you can send me one.
just send me a text message.
I don't like face-to-face communication.
They feel pressured.
I just don't like communication.
Personally, I think
No, I think in today's society,
the thresholds of these circles are getting higher.
and the cost of communication is getting higher.
Some of what I said
Sometimes when I think my Mandarin is okay,
when I talk to a young person,
Suddenly, they use words that are completely different from mine.
Then suddenly
I know you're speaking Chinese, ha ha ha.
But when they are put together, it's not.
Who do you usually talk to?
I haven't encountered this situation.
They use some words from the internet
I have no idea what they're saying.
Then I think, oh no.
Can't we communicate?
Then they just follow this.
the cost becomes higher and higher.
You haven't met them.
I haven't met.
By the way,
What do they say?
Are they using the words online?
Some words used on the internet.
new words, some new words.
Oh, I'm over there.
This is, I'm pretty sure.
You're still speaking Mandarin.
Ha ha ha.
But I don't know what you said.
I have a feeling that
I sometimes encounter online, uh,
maybe friends,
they suddenly pop up some Chinese characters.
I call them Chinese characters.
Uh-huh.
Oh, oh, or or.
More, um.
Many of my friends have told me that
and they don't understand what they mean.
Now I can only understand that they say
I understand it as similar to saying oh,
Wow.
a feeling.
Ah.
Later, I seem to be related to Korean.
是
Yes, there are cultural differences in Korean.
Because the information sources I have contacted with them
may have different information sources.
I have no information source about Korean culture.
have no information source at all.
They may watch Korean dramas or variety shows.
or variety shows or something.
And then as long as using these words,
even if I am Chinese,
I will also encounter this situation.
So sometimes,
I don't think it's a generation gap or anything.
No, I don't think it's a generation gap.
Ha ha ha.
Yes, yes, yes.
It's okay.
OK
You can say that.
People of different age groups
they have different content and information.
and different social circles.
and their interests are different.
Each circle has its own language.
So sometimes I can't fit in.
and I can't communicate.
Then they talk about it,
And then the simplest thing
My friend Aden's girlfriend is a musician.
The things they talk about
are music creators.
I don't know any of them.
And they just talk and talk and talk.
and then I'm like, oh no, I can't fit in at all.
You can't get in, you can't get in.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and then I understand.
Uh I also feel uh oh I maybe i
But I'm not human, I'm just this dog
You don't understand, ha ha ha.
I think
I can explain it to you in a simple way.
Because I have been exercising for many years.
When they see their body getting better from exercise,
they would say
Oh, something like that.
I also want to exercise with you.
And I also want to lose weight,
or something else.
This was a long time ago.
Well, I said
At first, I would educate them
what fitness can bring to them,
how to lose weight,
how to lose weight,
Or even make a plan for them, but they don't come.
Yeah, I've encountered this.
Yeah, they don't come.
So no matter how much you popularize, it's useless, right?
it's useless.
You can't pull them in.
Just like you can't pull yourself up when climbing,
You can't pull it in from outside.
Yeah, it's the same thing.
So, another thing is that
how to say,
Sometimes when I teach or socialize,
or making friends,
I don't have high expectations at the beginning.
Yeah.
Because I don't know what you will be like outside this place.
I don't know what kind of person you are.
and what your inner thoughts are.
What kind of education you have received,
and what your future concepts are.
Can we talk together?
or think alike, whether we are the same kind of people.
How tolerant you are.
and what kind of tolerance I have.
Can I accept your shortcomings?
I have doubts about all these things.
I'm not sure about all of them.
So, from the very beginning,
intention,
I didn't have high expectations for you.
or
I didn't expect a long-term communication.
maybe I will try to get to know you better.
That means we can go to have a meal together,
or go for a walk together,
have a cup of coffee and chat.
At this time,
that is
a signal that I want to communicate with you further.
And then, during our conversation,
I can roughly confirm
whether I can further communicate with you.
I can also say
If he can do this thing.
If you say, as you said before,
I, uh,
like your previous friends said,
I might not have any friends anymore.
gradually decrease.
Maybe we are eliminating others,
or others are eliminating me.
Of course.
Yes, it's mutual.
It's mutual.
So from this perspective,
how to say this?
Barrier.
The cost of breaking down barriers is too high.
The cost of breaking barriers is too high.
And there are too many things to be eliminated.
Nowadays,
In this society,
everyone's ideas are too independent.
They are too independent.
So how can we say?
we are also independent individuals ourselves.
we can't change other people's ideas.
So,
I think this thing
it's better to let it go.
No, no.
Don't worry too much about what you have lost or gained.
what I have lost or gained.
Just do it.
I totally disagree.
Yes, I think.
because there are so many small groups,
you may not be able to get in.
The only answer is to find more people.
That is, you need more people to come in.
so that you can filter slowly
Filter, filter, filter.
filter to the bottom
the closest friends
at the bottom.
you need to filter a lot.
You didn't filter as much as before.
But now,
because everyone's group is different.
You need to filter a lot.
At the top,
Then slowly, as you said,
just have dinner, hang out,
and then slowly
and become these good friends at the bottom.
the best and closest friends.
Well, you need many people.
You need to actively go out and find
to have these few good friends.
These good friends will leave you.
One day they will go to other countries,
or go back to
or go back to their hometown, whatever.
对
You also need to filter from the top.
filter them down.
So you always need to add from the top.
so that you can have these three
four friends.
And if you lose one,
If you lose one,
you still need to filter from the top
filter down slowly.
It means you always need to actively look for them.
then you can
If one is missing, I can still add another one.
If I lose one, I can add another.
to keep your comfortable three friends.
Two good friends.
Whatever it is, um.
But if you don't add from the top,
you can only have two.
and until
One will slowly come down from above.
One can return to three.
It's hard, I think this process is hard.
tiring, but if you don't do it,
you will only be doing subtraction.
Yes.
you will only feel worse and worse.
Instead of being happier.
So I think these people,
Although they are in parentheses as sad people,
Yes.
still need to take the initiative to go out and find friends.
and make new friends.
Yes, keep at least three good friends.
Some people are just people on the surface
Yes, and then.
And then on social media,
they are active.
Oh my god, there are several of them.
Oh my god.
In today's society,
I think because of mobile phones, there is this risk.
They think social software is
is completely different from face-to-face social.
It's completely different.
It's actually completely different.
They should try.
Well, forget it.
They are willing to try.
We are old.
maybe in the future, there will only be online
no offline.
Well, I think this is a drawback.
But this is a trend.
Yeah.
It's a trend now.
But I think this
I will look forward to the emergence of new technologies
to help solve
this problem.
For example, the virtual world.
Ha ha ha.
Going further,
which can provide more realistic information,
Can we bring a device up there
and then people who are thousands of kilometers away
or even thousands of kilometers away
as if they were sitting in front of us.
sitting in front of us.
We can sit and talk like this.
we can feel
I can see your expressions at any time.
and see your reactions and movements.
That feeling.
I'm looking forward to that.
I think this is farther than we imagined.
Do you know why?
Do you know why?
we are still the most ideal.
Because not only can you see and hear,
You can smell this person.
you can feel
you can touch this person.
I think other senses in technology
now only eyes and ears.
There are no other things you can smell.
which cannot be digitized at all.
Not to mention touching someone.
Yes.
There are no two important fans.
Yes.
A friend of mine told me that
a person's body odor.
Yes.
if you feel disgusted when you smell this person at first,
It means that your
there is something in your system that rejects this person.
Your genes are resisting this thing.
Yes.
Your genes are telling you that there is a problem.
you don't know what it is.
But there is.
And we have forgotten many of these.
these systems
some instinctive reactions in your body.
Now we all rely on our eyes and ears.
But we have five senses that we can use.
But now we don't use all of them.
and we basically rely on two.
I think it's still a big problem.
Because these things cannot be quantified,
We can only digitize the eyes and ears in the video.
Yes.
So there is still a long way
I think it's a long way to replace face-to-face.
I think face-to-face is the best.
It's the best.
Yes.
So I never record online interviews.
interviews must be done in person.
You can only record friends in Shanghai.
Yes.
Many people pass through Shanghai.
The best thing about Shanghai is that it's very accessible.
People often come from Beijing.
I'm coming to Shanghai next week.
Let's record an episode.
I need to fly.
I need to stop in Shanghai on my way to Thailand.
Let's record an episode.
and then I'll fly away.
So I think it's quite
I think Shanghai as a hub is quite good.
我我
I think we can come to record more often in the future.
record a video.
What are we talking about?
I think we did a great job today.
It's totally fine.
We've been chatting for so long.
and we talked a lot.
I didn't expect to talk about these things.
I'm more divergent.
Yes, I think we can talk more.
It's okay to chat more.
OK, let's stop here today.
Let's stop recording today.
OK, bye bye.
If you have time, click on your
Xiaohongshu, do you care?
I don't care.
Raven, do you care?
I don't care.
OK, I don't care.
Then you can find them on Xiaohongshu slowly.
Ha ha ha, OK.
Bye bye.
Bye bye.