BKP #354 [中] Tommy+Siyan, 现代的音乐行

两位音乐家来聊现在音乐行业。Tommy Sire 做这么久的说唱，然后 Jungle Butterfly 的新媒体时代musician。两位都在各平台都能搜到。

Episode Transcript

(00:07):
ok 你们准备好了没
好，大家好，今天来的是Siyan 和 Tommy
Jungle Butterfly + Tommy Sire 欢迎上我的电台
荣幸荣幸
谢谢邀请
今天想聊的是音乐
因为你们两个其实是我唯一的音乐相关的朋友
所以刚好你们两个是刚认识吧

(00:28):
对对对 没见过
5分钟吧
我们俩说10分钟差不多
要不Tommy 你们两个都说一下你们音乐怎么开始做的
然后现在在做哪些项目
你你需要先开始
不不不 Tommy 先吧
怎么开始
长辈长辈先哈哈哈
老人老人优先
尊老爱幼
哈哈哈哈哈哈
我应该做音乐很早吧

(00:51):
是08年09年的时候呀
哇 真是前辈了
对 念大学的时候
你真是前辈
十十多岁
六六年级 对
我是08年09年的时候
自己开始写词作曲写词
然后一直到现在
怎么开始的
就是因为喜欢嘛
因为喜欢
然后以前在学校里表演都是唱别人的歌

(01:13):
然后有一天我决定我不想唱别人歌
我想唱自己的歌
然后我就开始写
没想到写歌对我来说也没有特别难
然后我可能一个晚上就
哎写出来一首
然后觉得好像自己在这方面是有些兴趣
有些天赋的
然后就一直在尝试
就开始写
然后项目的话我确实是有
因为我去年发了蛮多歌

(01:34):
去年发了两张EP两首单曲
一共12首歌嘛
嗯 然后我其实去年还写了很多歌
今年打算都陆续的去录完制作完
然后发布
我最近写的一首歌是除
夕大年那天晚上写的别人在吃年夜饭
你也在家里写你在干嘛
对然后那首歌你们都看过

(01:55):
那个BREAKING BAD
嗯对
然后我那首歌叫Heisenberg
okay呃
其实我写的时候也没有想写Heisenberg
但是我写到一半我把 Heisenberg
就有句歌词是他们叫我 Heisenberg
因为我懂化学
就哎感觉很贴合这首歌
哈哈哈然后就整首歌写
写的时候
感觉想再写我自己的人生故事
嗯对就是一个看上去很平凡的人

(02:18):
但是他拥有一些知识
一些天赋一些能力
然后做了黑化之后
做了一件很不同寻常的事啊
然后就感觉挺有趣
然后他跟我的性格有点像
就是他做的business
黑化吗
你说Mr White 吗
对
他做 Heisenberg他很他做的工作应该要很低调
但是他又很想要出名

(02:40):
嗯对对对
感觉我也很想要低调
所以我平时出门还是很低调
但是我也想要出名
就感觉就像自己对
嗯
很冲突这两个
对这应该是我最近会发的一首歌哎
那那汤米你的音乐人名字叫什么
就是米三爷
Tommy Sire
对对对
中有没有
有没有中文的翻译呢

(03:00):
如果对于咱们没有任何的中文
没有英文朋友
中文的话就糖蜜塞牙
糖蜜塞牙
对糖
这是吃的那个糖蜜
就是蜂蜜的蜜
就塞住牙齿
我觉得这个还蛮巧的耶
不要你也刚
没有没有
我之前用这个中文很久
就别人替我替我想

(03:20):
那就叫我糖蜜
然后我就想塞牙怎么塞呢
就塞一下牙哈哈哈
那挺好的
挺好玩的我觉得这个
对对对 是挺好的
那Siyan你呢？
嗯
说呃 我就Jungle Butterfly
然后中文名称叫丛林野蝶
然后也是因为先有了英文名
然后取了一个中文名
啊

(03:41):
是因为之前有朋友
OK 我先讲我音乐的怎么搞起来的
然后再讲一下民族的来源吧
我最开始呢
我上大学的时候
呃 在外面兼职
然后做一些就是啤酒节啊之类的活动
然后当时有一个啤酒节嘛
在那个garden hotel
garden hotel那个Beer-nanza

(04:01):
我不知道你知道那个活动叫对
很久以前Beer-nanza
他们说连续三天活动
然后每天都有乐队
然后第三天的时候就没什么客人了
我看有一个朋克乐队
然后也不也
我不知道是朋克
那个时候我对音乐没有任何的
呃 叫什么呃
曲风的一个了解
然后就知道啊
一般中国人
一堆老外在那边玩

(04:22):
玩的很开心
我说啊 我也要去凑热闹
然后没有客人
我就跑过去
然后他们有什么非洲鼓啊
然后然后有什么话筒在那摆着
我就这边瞧瞧那边弄弄
然后那个呃
那个乐队的呃
队长吧可能
就来找我说 哎
我感觉你声音还蛮好
而且挺不害羞的
就性格感觉挺外放的

(04:44):
你你要不
你如果感兴趣的话
你想吧 到我们主唱就之后有机会
主唱
不是 当时不是说主唱
他说有一个万圣节的活动
我们朋友需要那个back up vocal啊
然后你去试一下
我说可以
没问题 然后加了微信
之后就半年都没联系
然后半年之后
他就说 哎
万圣节快到了

(05:04):
我们要 排练一下我就介绍给女朋友
那个时候就是一呃
就是好像外国人的那个摇滚乐
玩的比较多嘛
那什么那个时候YYT啊
有外国人的圈子比较多嘛
所以我就先跟那帮外国友人在一起
玩这个音乐
然后呢我们演完出之后
他们就哎呀你唱的还真可以
而且性格还蛮好我觉得

(05:25):
然后就那个当时找我的那个男生
他就说哎我们组行刚好走了
然后你要不要试一下
然后我说哎行
那我来试一下
然后我就当时气了
我就Zero exactly Zero
但是之前我是学过钢
就小的时候就是学过
对学过乐器
但是乐理是一窍不通
我那样钢琴老师
那小小朋友现在以前教钢琴

(05:47):
大家都是你有谱子你就照着弹
你也不敢
就靠谱就行
对老师就不会教你其他东西
就是很硬式的那种教育
我们就什么一级二级考七级
我就考到七级
实在不想学钢琴了
然后也上初中了嘛
然后就没学钢琴了
但是我是有钢琴基础的
但然后后来就加入就排练
然后第一次排练就是体验了一下

(06:09):
呃不好意思
故事有点长啊
然后我就体验了一下
然后当时他就说啊我们第一次来
在什么underground
那种排练房
又又又湿又潮又阴暗的那种
我觉得上海很多那种排练对对
画面感
但是我当时觉得哇
我好酷啊
我太酷了
我是彭可你知道吗
然后就参加啊排练

(06:30):
他们第一次把那个呃乐谱打下来
然后只是有一个什么ABCD啊
就是那个
那个是什么念谱的
方法吗我不清楚
但是我之前学过钢琴谱
就五线谱我会看
对 但是a b c d那个时候我还不太熟
但我知道是哆来咪发骚啊
然后他就说这个core是a major
那个chord是b minor whatever就是那种

(06:52):
然后说你就跟着哼
我说什么叫跟着哼
你们你们
你们写歌没
有没有旋律的吗
他说有啊
但是我不是主唱啊
我给你发的那个参考你可以参考一下
我说啊我就照着唱呗
他说哎你不想照着唱也没事 我说
啊我当时疯了
我当时整个人
我当时整个人都疯了
我说啊我不我不会

(07:13):
就是我对即兴是没概念的
就完全都不懂这些东西
然后我那个时候连嘴都张不开
他当时让我放飞自我的时候
我根本张不开嘴
我就非常害怕
后来他就说没事你慢慢来嘛
我就把那个音频发给你
你还是可以跟着他唱
但是你可以唱出自己的想法
对 然后自那之后呢

(07:33):
因为也大家有的时候外国友人居多
所以他们那种方式可能会更
更让你更个人
化研
就是他会更刺激你自己的一个想法
而不是说你非得照搬他们之前的
所以他们慢慢的呃
诱导哈哈哈
诱导下引导下
然后慢慢的发掘出哦

(07:53):
原来我是可以去improvise
即兴趣这些东西
然后唱一些东西
然后跟他们
两年之后我就学到很多舞台经验啊
我们去演出了很多韵堂
然后老卵这些地下酒吧
然后还上过一些小的
就是上海的本地的那种商业的音乐

(08:13):
音乐 节对然后就舞台经验足了之后
哎呀
我就觉得
嗯自己做了挺好
哈哈就是后来慢慢的
他时间久了嘛
你超过了你的那个我觉得
到了那个顶峰之后
我觉得没有什么新鲜的东西了
嗯然后我才开始契机呢

(08:35):
是因为我发现
苹果手机上有那个库乐队啊
那个软件就是garageband
哦garageband
对我是
当时我就是在火车上无聊玩手机
看到这个
一直都有这个软件
但我从来没打开过
嗯
iPhone都有
我一直没打开
到现在都没有打开
对吧每个人手机上都有
然后聊天
嗯what is this

(08:56):
然后我说我一直是个调弦的工具
然后打开就开始玩
然后第一个beat就从那开始做出来了
对但是但是没有
就是当时当下不是一下就做出来了
我是其实第一个壁纸
花了我一个半月的时间
就就2分钟就几个轨道
但那个时候我就天天没事拿点点点
哎手这样点点点
然后自那之后我就哎呀妈有点上瘾了

(09:18):
我就开始越来越多越来越多
然后从手机到iPad
然后再到第一个迷你键盘
然后再到电脑
然后再到我花钱买了那个Logic Pro那个
那个软件吗
就皮是苹果自带的
然后再到买了第一个麦克风
然后再到
就是慢慢慢慢慢慢慢慢慢慢累积起来
但是那个时候对我从但是对

(09:42):
但是我从来没有想过
我说我之后就是一定要做
因为那个时候还在上学吗
还没毕业
就是大四那一年
所以就从那个时候开始的
对啊对我觉得你
说的一个点特别刺激的就是
你学钢琴的时候他就教你
对 很靠谱 对
我每次笔试这边教跳舞的时候

(10:03):
是一模一样哦
我看那些你说怎么说
dance studio全部都是你怎么跳我的舞
这个choreographer叫你怎么跳你就怎么跳
可是他们也说到就是我不想跳你的舞
我想跳我的
因为我觉得dance跟music是一模一样的
就是我怎么express自己

(10:24):
那我跳你的舞是我怎么express you
是完全不一样的东西
我不要跳你的舞
我不要唱你的歌
我要像我的歌
我要express myself
嗯 就在特别我觉得在亚洲
就经常对导演说什么
我就做什么
嗯 而不是自己发挥
然后自己发挥的时候

(10:45):
我觉得有摩擦别人
他们以前有学过吗
你有学过
对没有
没有 从来没有学过
有 就有人
我很同意奥特刚才讲的一点
就是有人叫我去教别人怎么写歌
嗯 我不会教
我没有公式
我就是表达自己嘛
我就想我是这样写的
我把我的方式告诉你
能不能成就是你的问题了

(11:06):
就是这样
其实对你继续说 对
就别人让我写一个大纲
我说你让我教的话
我3分钟就可以讲明白
哈哈哈
你能不能用我就不清楚了
对 就这样子
就小时候学钢琴
我觉得确实从小教育那个方式来说
确实因为你不知道自我是什么东西
那个时候老师不会教你自我

(11:27):
但是我觉得其实他是需要结合的
技术也是很重要的
但是怎么去引导孩子这个兴趣
对 就是我觉得比较缺失的所
以我在参加这个乐队的时候
他们把这个方面给我引导出来了
我就非常开心
对对对对
这个很难得
因为我觉得大部分学校
不管是这边
不管是美国
很多学校都不不教你how to be you yeah

(11:49):
就他们就是觉得课本上是这么写的
你学这个课本里面的东西
我的目标就当了
对吧 我作为老师
我就把课本教给你
然后你会课本里面的东西
我打勾checklist
我当而不是这个学生怎么发挥
更像自己
更能表达自己
教育也是个很大的话题

(12:10):
好难好难
细节这个东西这样聊
现在最大的一个问题
嗯 因为就不是大家都不是一样的
大家都是unique individual yeah
反正我感觉我跟他们相似的
就是以兴趣为出发点
我们就是从发现有这个兴趣点之后
慢慢的自己探索出来的
对对
我还是有点天赋
哈哈哈哈哈哈哈

(12:31):
是的是的是的啊
所以我也拉你们两个上我这边
哈哈哈
这一期肯定很精彩
哈哈哈
所以我好奇现在的music
现在音乐的这个行业
在中国长什么样子
因为我对这个是完全不了解的
嗯 我唯一知道的是
我在YouTube上经常看到很多人说啊
我就把我的东西剖上啊

(12:53):
呃 apple或是post上Spotify
然后希望可以有一点流量或是YouTube
然后能赚一点ad revenue
我不知道在中国
这个模式是不是合理的
是不是赚的
我不知道这个东西应该怎么搞
您先吧哈哈哈
我
我觉得就是那个版税
就就那个
嗯 高级写

(13:14):
嗯 然后那个scream还是挺重要的
然后 嗯
对于我来讲
如果我想靠音乐赚钱的话
我觉得这个是我的终极目标
嗯 因为如果一个音乐人
他的音乐播放量很少的话
我不会认为他是一个好的音乐
嗯 这是第一点
首先他的音乐要好
嗯 要喜欢听
对吧 要循环播放
嗯 那我觉得才是好的音乐
然后另外的话

(13:34):
确实头部艺人在版税方面的收入
是很可观
是的 对
就我前两年我看过一条信
我记我上次来的时候还讲到
就是Drake有一首歌
在Spotify上面达到多少的播放量
折合成版税的话是8,000万美金
哇 一首歌
哇 对
然后我觉得
这个是每个音乐人应该追寻的终

(13:56):
终极目标
嗯 但是对于像我们这种才开始
或者就是说以兴趣为主的音乐来讲
靠这个创造收入确实很难
因为我不知道
誓言都是自己自己制作的吗
对 对
大部分是的
自己可以覆盖掉制作这方面99%的
对 所以
他可能在制作方面要付出的金钱成本

(14:17):
要
对 很稳定
然后我的制作还要去购买
录音还要付钱
后期还要OK
所以
我做一首歌的成本是相对比较高
高的啊
所以就是
我需要有一定的版税来覆盖我的成本
我才可以
break even 对
我以前是可以的
但近两年不可以了
因为我发现我过气了
因为可能发新歌都没什么

(14:37):
对 然后另外的话
我觉得还有一点
就是你的音乐播放量上去之后
你的演出肯定也会多
是的是的
是一个很正向的一个循环
是的
对 然后你演出多了
音乐多了
那你的机会更多
可能有些影视作品会作用你的音乐
做背景音乐
你可以得到那种commercial
那种 对商业版税

(14:58):
sink license
对 然后你可能会接到一些商务
做一些代言
做些活动
我觉得这是正向循环
如果很多人
把音乐只是做成一个
自己的一个标签
或者载体
但是他不想靠音乐转身去赚钱
赚流量赚钱的话
他可能只是为了接一些广告
那些很容易被淘汰

(15:19):
我觉得嗯
他可能时间久了
别人看这个脸 哎
这个脸挺好看
听他的音乐 哇
那么烂
有些人可能是像我
长得挺普通
但别人看看你的
听听你的音乐
觉得哎 这个音乐还不错
哈哈
可能造成我以前歌红人不红的状态
对
所以我觉得对于我来讲
我觉得音乐播放量是我追求的

(15:40):
终极目标
OK 对
以前真的很多人就是record label
然后开始Touring
嗯 这种最基本
以前基本的模式
现在还合适吗
其实说句实话
我毕竟进入到这个产业很短的时间

(16:02):
因为我才开始意识到他是一个business
我最开始做音乐只是因为兴趣
但现在我发现我是真的爱这个东西
我不能够不做这个东西的时候
我才决定进入这个产业
这个这个
这个生意
然后才发现它是个生意
它不是一个
就是说你就搞搞音乐
你开心完了的事了
如果你想要真正成为一个

(16:22):
让大家所知道的一个音乐人
你是需要进入这个行业的
需要去用它去赚钱的
到目前为止啊 我
可以这样说
我的几年
我的水米才可能就17块钱
哈哈哈 我那天打开网易云看了17块钱
但是我最近呢
因为大家都成长的嘛
我不如果停滞在原地
那我做什么做

(16:43):
所以我觉得我看到的
包括汤米刚刚说的那些经验啊
我最近也都是有有在体验
就亲身体验到
我前两年一直在努力去做线下演出
但是我发现很大问题
就跟你说的
你没有流量他就卖不出票房
对对对 你去亏的
我前两天
我就是去年才做了一个最大的
亏本的一个演出
我自那之后我就决定我一定要先在线上搞好流量

(17:07):
搞好粉丝
搞好年度之后
我再去做这个推线下推行的一个东西
我上次就单程去重庆成都演
来回就亏了5,000块钱
哇 你真的
你作为一个刚刚哈哈哈刚刚毕业的
然后工作不太稳定
然后很很努力的
想要在上海扎根的一个年轻人来说

(17:28):
5,000块钱真的很多了
对啊
大家再加上这个很磨灭你的心态的
是的 真的非常的心累
但是最近很好的一点就是
我发现就是你
如果你的就像你刚刚说正向回馈流量
嗯 如果在网上跑起来了之后
可以接到一些广告啊
可以呃做一些宣传啊
特别是音乐方面
你的宣传可以引流到你的呃

(17:50):
音乐平台上
大家可以听
因为之前我就不仅仅是
有的人可能歌真的好对
但可能就是他不知道怎么宣传
是是对
所以多方面的都是非常成问题
再回到刚刚Arthur的问题说啊
现在市场我觉得可能就是
成两之路吧
你厂牌如果愿意帮你推
那就是非常好的
但是如果你自己能做
像自媒体

(18:11):
现在就是自媒体的时代
你能够踩到这个
你能坐上这辆火车
你能把自己的流量带起来
那其实独立音乐人也没有什么
确实是差别
那除非就看你自己的目的
你要是想要成为像得格莱米
呃 格莱美的那种巨星
然后你可能就得
必须得去靠近一些大牌子
然后去用他们的渠道去宣发

(18:32):
那如果你不愿意的话
你像很多在美国国内火起来的美国音乐人
跑到中国来做巡演赚钱
嗯 他们已经其实可以很富有了
然后他们也不愿意去做什么
格莱美的那些独立音乐人
那也挺好的
对啊 就看你两边路子怎么选了
你们两个都说到其实这个是一个商业
不能把自己看成纯粹只是一个艺术家

(18:56):
因为我觉得如果你只做艺术
嗯 其实很多人失败就是在这个点
嗯 我不管
我看到很多是餐饮方面
嗯 餐饮方面
很多厨师就说
我的这个是艺术
我这个i don't care
我不需要符合个个人的这些想法
这个是我的艺术
然后你喜欢不喜欢是你的事
嗯 然后开餐厅的人就会说 哎

(19:18):
我需要赚钱
对 我不管你这个是不是艺术
是的 这是我需要赚钱
OK 然后就导致很多音乐家需要一个经纪人
经纪人就管钱
然后你就管艺术
嗯 可是现在我觉得
很多人也没有这个经纪人
就想自己搞
嗯 可是他没有这个business sense
的时候 就会死在这个点

(19:39):
嗯 对
然后很多餐厅
很多别的都是死在这个点
就是因为他没有business的一个idea
对 我
我补充一下
就是刚才讲到那个流媒体播放嘛
嗯 然后我
其实我我
我以前是怎么操作的
我以前是是运气好
我是第一首歌
也不是第一首歌
就是我第一首火起来的歌
18年的时候发了一首歌

(20:00):
然后我剪了一个片段
传到那个抖音后台
抖音音乐人后台
哦 然后我知道抖音电话
抖音说我们觉得你这首歌很好
可不可以帮你去打榜
我说当然可以
他说但是你要免费授权给我们
我们帮你打榜
我说好 他们授权给我们三年
我说OK 然后
那首歌
就不知道怎么在抖音上火起来了
就很多人就拿我的这个音乐片段

(20:21):
拍视频
对对对
然后我看到我网易云
有很多人在我这首歌底下留言
抖音来的
抖音来的
才知道原来这首歌在抖音火起来
然后我那首歌在抖音有3亿的播放
但是没有一分钱
没有钱
对对对
但是我其实那个时候也比较早嘛 18年
嗯 然后我觉得我没有抓住这个机会

(20:42):
没有持续的发更多的歌
嗯 同样的方式去
对 怎么去write the flow
很重要
对 然后我那一首歌就很快
在一年内
可能一年都不到
在网易云播放量超过500万
哇 对
然后现在的话就完全不一样
现在我发现
就以前以前
以前的人
可能五六年前
我们打开那种音乐流媒体平台的APP

(21:04):
它的频率很高
我可能每天都要打开
网易云 但现在人的习惯是
我每天都在打开小红书
我每天都要看抖音
我根本不会去听音乐
所以现在很多人
可能是抖音上面算法
推给你什么歌啊
你才会去搜什么
对像我们这种新的音乐人
可能就不太会有机会被推荐
除非你自己买流量

(21:25):
对 包括网易云
现在他的后台也变了
就是你要充钱
他会给你流量
嗯 以前好像我没有见过这样的方式
对呀 我试过
我充了50块钱
他其实推不起什么东西来的
对 他可能给你增添个几千个播
几千的播放量
对 然后但是你这首歌真的好的话
可以裂变几千的播放量
别人点赞或者转发就可能会变多

(21:46):
其实那个是有漏洞的
因为他不是针对你的客户群去推的
他就是就随便乱乱投
因为可能他不是你的客户群
他不愿意听你那些歌
他给你听
他反而就划过去了
所以我之前有个朋友很好的意见就是
你做小众音乐人有个好处
就是你知道你怎么去对标你的客户群
你就你比如说你现在这个风格

(22:06):
你写歌 你就去找谁去听你那些歌
你就从他那个特点
比如说在哪个城市
多少岁 然后他什么样的工作
然后你就针对那种客户群去推流
反而百发百中
这样他才能够很好的把你的流量
给这样去裂变
带出来 嗯
其实我之前投抖音也是一样的
你就是花了个钱
他就随便给你投在嗯

(22:27):
那个流量池里面了
他也不管你的观众是谁
所以导致我那段时间
有好多70岁以上的
70 岁以上
老阿姨 对对对
真的就是老阿姨
你很棒 哈哈哈
他的表情包很赞很赞
真不错然后那个老年人
那个表情包
那个大红花还在闪

(22:48):
祝您晚安
就这种太可爱了哈哈哈
对誓言刚才讲的
他朋友说那个要根据你的受众去写歌
对其实这个我认为是一个很好的方式
但是其实也是我一直不愿意妥协
不是写歌不是说写歌
我说投投投投投流量这个问题
对
因为你不管写什么
我总相信有人会欣赏你
呃是是是我很懂你
现在找到这个

(23:09):
只是说大众和小众的问题
对对对就只是一个
Taylor Swift和Taylor的Creator的区别
哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈
哎不是以前的跳的学美
他现在变壮了
你不喜欢啊
现在现在too popular
我觉得就Taylor一到三前面三个album
最棒
然后后面就i don't know what happened to her

(23:30):
太后也会失去一些粉丝
嗯
所以你们两个觉得现在这个比较小众的圈子在网上
是还是可以打进去的吗
嗯因为我现在看到以前大家都是在一个大池里
现在我觉得就是一个小池一个小池
一个小池

(23:50):
嗯
就不是大家都可以enjoy的一个东西
现在每个小吃都是有自己的门槛
才能进嗯
不管是language方面
不管是兴趣爱好方面
大家都把自己的一个圈子搭出一些门槛
就每个都需要打进去
我觉得是很累的一件事
确实确实

(24:10):
哦我已经把那些门关掉了
哈哈哈就我其实现
在我和呃
说唱圈子的朋友来往也不太多
甚至甚至有个朋友我认识
大学就认识了
可能09年到现在也十六七年了
认识那么长时间
我当中有五六年没联系
前段时间刚刚联系过
你最近在干嘛
对呀 很这样
因为我的
我的个人体验是这样的

(24:32):
就是我从14年的时候
我和开始跟我那个美国朋友
一起做音乐Brian
然后我们可能对音乐的交流
碰撞会比较多一点
然后我那时候开始去的录音棚
可能录音室也是老外
嗯然后我现在很多的beat producer 也是老外
对 我也是
然后我发现和中国人和外国人合作

(24:53):
他会有一些不一样的地方
嗯就比如说我写了一个demo
我发给我的beat producer
嗯或者你听看这个demo怎么样
或者我去发给我的song engineer
对对对 抖音
然后他们听这个oh that is fire that is dope
他们会这样给你很多鼓励
给你很多反馈
嗯我去录音棚
如果是很多
有时候遇到一些
就是本地的那些录音师啊

(25:13):
这个你该这么唱
这个你该弄哈哈哈
这个还不错
这个可以
我觉得OK
就是很平淡
嗯因为他表现不出那种很强的那种
没有情绪价值
对对对然后这个时候我会
其实我心里会有落差
是的对
所以就是说
我和国内的这扇门其实没有怎么打开
这样都关掉了
对然后所以就是

(25:34):
其实我不是很在乎是不是
我这个人进入到这个圈子
因为这个圈子有什么用
你也是rapper
我也是rapper
嗯我们互相支持
还不如我去找我的听众
对我就这样感觉
对
我怎么说呢
我感觉其实做你说这个圈子这个事情
我之前最开始做音乐的时候

(25:54):
也就是也就两三年前吧
就感觉那个时候就是初生牛犊不怕虎
感觉自己还没时间大呢
就觉得自己了不了不可了不起了
你看我可以你还去买beat
我自己写我自己东西我看不起你
我就是这种的感觉
自己去演几个出啊
然后有很多人在线下就说啊姐姐好美
姐姐嫁给我

(26:14):
那种感觉
就感觉感觉自己就飞到天上去了
但后来发现我被现实狠狠的击中了
因为我觉得我自己屁都不是
哈哈哈
怎么被发现了
就是我觉得我自己其实写就当下
你开始创造一个东西的时候
你是因为心情激动去做的
然后到你真的进入专业领域之后你才发现你是小鱼小虾
你一点都不专业
太不专业了

(26:35):
我以前什么录个vocal就可以过
然后我再去看人家的
什么Billie Eilish 的纪录片人家一个“啊”录100条
然后或者是一个一个配器
他就真的要去识路
然后那个时候最开始我就大家犯过最大一个问题
任何兴趣都是你会有懒惰的
这个嗯在
然后现在我就在看到以前我觉得哇

(26:57):
真的太不专业了
所以我现在慢慢进入到专业领域之后
才发现
原来你很多东西是需要合作共赢的
我不能够去躲避同行这个东西
嗯
有嫉妒心是好的
因为我想要变得更
好所以我现在打开了很多
我自从今年开始我才慢慢的开始
呃
有更多的音乐人朋友

(27:18):
我以前不会跟音乐人在一起玩
我就是在家就感觉我
我不喜欢你的东西
你东西是垃圾
然后现在我就觉得不对
我这样想法真的很不对呀
不管有什么样他都有他的听众呀
哪怕我觉得乡村音乐可能我不太了解
我可能听不懂
但人家就是就是有流量
人家就是能共鸣
那人家泰勒苏
他就是能够卖出那么多几张票
所以我现在就明白了

(27:40):
我说OK你不能固步自封
我得先走出去
我走出去之后我的东西才能走出去
所以我从来都是一个人在制作
因为受到了贫穷的限制
哈哈哈
受了你这样的能力
受到了贫穷的限制
哈哈所以只能自己动手
丰衣足食
呃很容易就固步自封

(28:00):
因为我一直在跟自己打打交道
嗯现在慢慢的
然后
比如说我会经常在小红书就跟你说的
我觉得国内大部分的人
比较羞涩于赞美
嗯和收到赞美
对对对你包括有的时候你收到赞美
你都不知道怎么去反应
比如说我知道的
哈哈哈开玩笑开玩笑
练出来的练出来的
我是练出来的

(28:21):
因为以前别人说哇天呐你这样表
我就啊我就慌了
我也不知道
现在还稍微好一点
所以我刚刚想说啥啊
对我因为在比如说社交媒体上
我看到一个我认可的东西
我就会评论
我说哇真棒
然后我就会如果我真的对
我就学习阿姨的精神
然后看到
比如 说想要合作的

(28:42):
或者是觉得有一点
我有点害怕人家会不会看得上我啊
这种情况下
那白想还不如一试呢
我就直接给人家发DM说 嘿
我喜欢你东西
我们两个去合作
对 就试试啊
所以我现在就逼着自己这样做
慢慢发现
你越不要脸的时候
反而路子越宽
哈哈哈哈哈哈
这个是我
完全真好真好 真的

(29:02):
他的状态就是我最热血的那段时间
啊
是吧
我觉得我现在应该是的
就是我感觉
呃 国内的那些音乐人就
首先我从小是听英语那个rap长大
嗯
国内的中文说唱我听的不是特别多
可能也没有特别喜欢
但是我其实我并不觉得那些歌手

(29:24):
他们的歌不好听
对 嗯 对
我会去听
但是可能我不会去循环的听
嗯 然后另外
我也觉得我做不出他们那样的歌
我们可以交流 哎
互相借鉴一下
但是我可能没有办法做出你的风格
你可能也不会喜欢我的风格
对 所以这个我觉得
我以前我18年的时候
那时候我发
呃 对

(29:45):
18年上半年
包括18年之前
我发很多歌
在发布之前我都会把demo发给朋友听
嗯 别人会给我意见
嗯 然后我就会根据他们的意见去改
嗯 然后发出去的歌
我觉得只有给我意见的人会喜欢
就其他人都不怎么喜欢
然后后面有一次我发那首
就我火起来
那首歌我没有demo

(30:05):
我没有给任何人听
就可能比producer
还有我最好的朋友
就那么三五个人
嗯 他们就说很好
就不用改
然后发出去之后
那歌就火起来
就是我觉得我在音乐当中
还是比较想要做自己
那肯定的
包括我
以前也有接受过一些节目的邀请
嗯 只是别人就那时候很早
14年那时候说唱还非常小众

(30:27):
而节目组跟我讲
你能把歌词改成中文
好 一个月之后
改的怎么样
我改不出来
我发现不对了
对 推翻自己
对了一下就很难
对啊 对
这一点我还是非常认可你的
我觉得 不管
呃
我可能现在是在打热打鸡血的时候
但是我在做自己东西
还是要保持一个自己得喜欢

(30:47):
你自己做的一个东西你都不喜欢的话
你对得起你自己的良心吗
你这个是肯定不行的呀
而且再怎么小众
他总是有人听你的
所以那点我非常赞成
你不要去为了别人什么而去做什么
那个顺序是不对的
你怎么去装呀
你装不下来的
对的 嗯
你装的就这个
面具就变越来越厚

(31:08):
然后你到最后我到底是谁
对对对啊
你们两个都说到一个点
我也是最近在想的
然后Echo也有说过
就是我感觉
特别是中国的一些互联网
嗯 很多人都是
英文叫crabs in a bucket
就大家都是螃蟹

(31:29):
然后一只螃蟹稍微跑出来的时候
拉一踩一的
螃蟹拉下来
是不是拉一踩一啊
不对 一拉一踩
那个那个怎么说来着
i don't know
这中文可以懂这个意思
可是你去看
比如说啊
微信公众号
而微信的视频
视频号永远都是那个大拇指
最多就是人家默默的喜欢了这个东西

(31:53):
可是从来不会点那个红色的啊
为什么
因为那大拇指是别人看不到
别人看不到 really
对啊我不知道
大拇指是不会推荐
这个
爱心就是爱心
爱心是推荐给给你别的朋友
对然后我全部三个
全部点 对对对我就
我都不知道他的这个分类是什么
一大部分人哈哈哈

(32:14):
都会都会给你大拇指
啊原来这个道理啊
然后小红书上也是
从来没有人点那个pick
就是好 他们永远都是对
他们永远都是点那个
那好是啥呀
就爱心也是推荐啊
对啊收藏
就是别人看不到
就我不是
那还有个好字
好就是推荐给别人
就是他们会说啊

(32:35):
饰演Jungle Butterfly推荐这个video
重点就是
好复杂呀
能不能就直接一个红心解决所有事情
真的好复杂
重点就是很多人不愿意推
因为they don't want you to succeed
这个是我发发现的
越来越多啊
攀岩圈我觉得是最明显的
就是他们很少在存在这个岩馆里面

(32:59):
点进去你要被你要被说了
在网上被骂
永远都不会推你的视频
他们就觉得我为什么要给你点赞
就很多人不会给你点赞
然后我就觉得why 就
大家都认可
我也i bet you大家都知道这件事
所以i don't understand
为什么大家就不要你火起来

(33:20):
嗯
我觉得现在很多啊
群体都是往这个方向走
就是你一开始火的时候
把你拉下来一下
哎火拉下来一下
i don't love it
因为我觉得在Instagram上更多是喜欢hey
you're great i like
对就是对更
嗯乐
观一点对

(33:40):
就我觉得这这种方向是对的
我希望我的朋友全部都succeed
因为思妍succeed
Tommy succeed
大家都带上我对
we're friends你当然会带上我对
why not对
所以我是永远都是带着这个状态来说
就共产主义最光荣
哈哈哈哈哈
可是我觉得这个现在越来越少见

(34:03):
我不知道你们有没有遇到
我其实有一个蛮最近想要分享的事情
就是也让我有点难过
但同时也让我觉得啊
那为何不这样的一个事情
就是最近不是#TikTokrefugee来到小红书嘛
然后我刚好就接住了这破天的流量
我就这两天涨了2万粉丝
就是美国人民贡献的

(34:24):
真的就是美国人民贡献的
然后所以我做的内容就是
我突然一下子
我我跟你讲
在那天 refugees 没来之前那一个星期
我每天对做音乐的那种态度
都是非常的岔劈的
就是两边我说我好爱音乐
但是我真的没有动力
我感觉真的自己不被欣赏
虽然要做的东西不是说有已经到完美的

(34:45):
我再看我以前做的作品啊
它还是有很多可圈可点之处有一些不好的地方
那因为最开始才做才一年
你不可能就指望我马上就变成Tyler the Creator
他们做音乐十几年了
比不了的呀
但是呢我觉得我有这个开始
我这个心
我是想要得到认可的
所以就很sad
为什么我必须到得到外国人民的认可

(35:08):
而通过他们的认可带给国内的人来看嘿
我们认可他
然后我觉
得 他的东西可以
然后反向推荐给国内的人
而且我唱的是重庆话
我唱的也是山歌
然后也有很多民族的元素在里面
我觉得就是代表国内的东西呀
我很自豪的
就是我非常骄傲的一个东西啊

(35:29):
那可能因为就是物以稀为贵吧
可能人家没有看过
那可能就觉得很稀奇
哈哈哈我
我感觉啊
就是我觉得阿瑟刚才讲那一点
我觉得有些人可能是这样的心态
就比如说同行之间
他不想让你嗯
他不给你点赞
或者他不留下任何足迹默默地关注你
对
是的对
他明明基本上就是这个

(35:49):
对
但是我发现我感觉就有些人
可能他也不是
就你的微信好友
或者你的微信好友
或者你的小红书粉丝
他们不给你点赞
也不并不一定代表他们不想你火
就有可能他们是
我的感觉是
比如说哎
我看到了一个美女主播跳舞的视频
我想收藏一下

(36:09):
但我不想让别人知道
我看到对的哈哈哈
很多都是这样的
guilty pleasure
我我同意啊
我理解啊
对
有时候可能我的歌词里面有一些比较
呃敏感
敏感的东西
就是可能别人觉得挺有趣
但是不想让别人觉得他也喜欢
对 所以他们不给我点
我觉得我也可以理解
这个可以理解
对对对
而且我觉得你那个可能是因为呃

(36:32):
那些refugees给了你一批流量
然后嗯
小红说关注到你有流量起来了
再推一波流量对
可能更多国内的人看到
对 所以我还是蛮有希望的
我还是挺开心这件事情发生了
然后 给了我更多主要是自信
给了我太多自信了
不然的话
我就没有勇气再去做这件事情
太难过了
你得到不明白

(36:53):
你得不到鼓励
理解理解
真的很心累的
这很这个心累
我也持续了一段时间
但是我分享一个故事给你
好 你说就我之前有看过一本书嘛
他就讲 他说
所有的成功背后都是数字堆积起来
就比如说你看到毕加索的画那么几幅
但是他可能你没有看到他的画更多
嗯 就有个

(37:13):
有一个 我以前10多年前
有一个一起做音乐的一个老外朋友
他跟我讲过
他说你没有发过100首歌
你根本不能撑起
哦 对
我也听过这样的话
所以我觉得这都是要排除那些干扰
别人是不是关注我
就有时候我会很难受
但是我要排除干扰
对
永远相信下一首歌会更受欢迎
对 说的对
那样的话说的非常对

(37:35):
说的非常对
就算我再难过的时候
我还是每天按时去工作室
去把这个歌写下来
我是这个是没有放弃
那你比我自律很多
我是下去的时候才写 哈哈哈
这个这个
因为我的导师还是蛮蛮
他也是个法国人嘛
他当时把我的EP制作完
他就说你现在
你现在有天赋
人太多了
你要不天天就是take your ass to the studio

(37:56):
连续工作10-19 小时
你才能说自己是音乐家
还有说你
你不是专业
他说只有业余的人才玩
呃
就什么只有业余的人才把它当做爱好
嗯 只有专业的人是把它当做工作
嗯 所以这句话
就改变了我对音乐一切的想法
就那个时候我才决定 OK

(38:16):
我要搞音乐
要把它当做工作去搞 哈哈
very impressive
对 你也是呀
你这个博客
不不不 是你博客搞了那么多年
一直都没放弃
我觉得我这个东西永远都是业余
因为你知道我最喜欢的其实就是这个
嗯
我觉得这个发布是我最不喜欢的一块
完全不关心这个东西

(38:38):
我们都是
都是喜欢
对 我在这边跟两个朋友在聊天
对 我听你们这样子聊我都很开心
嗯 我不发布
其实 whatever it's okay
可是我觉得这个东西
一纸程序让我学到很多东西
嗯 让我认识到很多好东西
对 that's the best
我觉得这已经比很多说要去做

(38:58):
但不去做的人
已经好非常多了 对
可是你说上一个点
你刚刚说的这个TikTok refugee
一直在我的脑子里头在转哎
因为我觉得 嗯
餐饮行是跟你刚刚说的一模一样
嗯
我觉得国外
特别是在国外
嗯
很多中国人没有中餐的自豪

(39:22):
嗯
所以中餐永远都是被中国人跑过来说
啊 这个可以更便宜
这个可以更正宗
我懂你意思了
法国人从来不会这样
然后比如说
他们就觉得法国的东西就是这么好
就是应该值这个价
他们就很自豪
然后中国人有的时候就觉得中餐

(39:43):
我回我回我老家
这个东西也一样然后可以更便宜
就永远都鄙视自己的对人
我觉得
可能就从教育最开始的根本问题
就是底层不自信
他可能就是打压式教育
从小我们就没有自信
对的 其实我的自信也是
就是搞音乐之后慢慢自己去找回来的
我最开始也是没有自信的

(40:03):
因为你去看国外的那些啊
华人节他们每一个餐厅都一些中国人
就会进去说 嗯
这个还好
可是也没有
有我以前在这边吃的更好
这永远都是在贬压downgrade
而不是说哇
中餐真的很值
真中餐真的很厉害
就感觉到这个自豪不在那边

(40:25):
我觉得这个真的是很
这个是个大问题 来
这个是因为民族性的
我跑去 我跑去
日本人 日本人说 哎
这个就值这个价格啊
其实应该更贵
这个东西就应该更贵
你为什么这边是这么便宜呢
他们还会往这个方向怀疑
反过来就反过来了
我就觉得啊
你们也是这样想的
嗯 就完全不一样

(40:45):
有的时候我觉得大家需要自信一点
大家需要自信
是的 我把我的东西拿出来
是好的东西
对 就值这个价钱
嗯 你们不只收放高位 OK
你们是错的
嗯 我觉得这个态度才是对的
对 才能继续把这个东西抬得越高
嗯要不然
你一直在把自自己的行业
自己的东西拉的更低

(41:07):
i don't like that either would you mean just to
觉得很奇怪
同时也需要一个balance
也需要平衡
因为它也是个度的问题嘛
咱们如果你太过于自信了
你是不是自负了
对啊 所以美也
咱们也不是拉一踩呀
我不这样说
反正就是可能掌握度比较好
of course 对
我肯 定是
希望国内的人像我们年轻人越来越多
年轻人会大家互互相的鼓励鼓励

(41:28):
合作 是的
我觉得现在上海年轻人是越来越多
是这个样子的
欧阳就我觉得还是体验下来蛮好的
还是蛮多年轻人
因为大家都穷
哈哈哈 那我们接下来合作一下
我们接下来大家都穷
我觉得
其实反而你在资源有限的情况下
你反而激发你的创造力
你就是要把这个东西给做到
那你怎么去做
在没有钱的时候

(41:48):
你是最创造力最高的时候
那个i agree
yeah
我觉得你最sad最有情绪的时候
hungry yeah hungry
那你才能做出一些有性的东西
比如说现在很多年轻人
他们只听中文说唱
他们不听其他
这一个很重要的事情
对 他们不听
他们只认国内的一些
他们说出来的一些rapper的名字
我都不知道

(42:09):
然后我跟他们交流
可能哦我听can you了吗
马来克斯
我听Drake
我听Drake
他们谁就会有这样的情况发生
所以就是搞的中文说唱
是很独立的一个东西
嗯 对
所以就是因为我的音乐是中音夹杂
然后我可能比较偏美式说唱一点

(42:30):
因为我的制作各方面都是
从小也听这些东西
对对 受那些的影响比较多一点
所以吃啥拉啥
就是造成现在可能我的受众会更少
嗯 对
以前可能大家选择比较少
嗯 听你的就听你的
现在大家选择很多
而且我觉得作为一个rapper
他其实并对于我来讲
可能并不是特别难的一件事情 嗯

(42:51):
就有很多
我今我那天去参加那个见面会
也遇到很多小朋友都很年轻
有个小孩他06年的
他问我多大
我说我八九
他说啊你跟我妈差不多大
哇扎心了
然后我觉得
然后他说什么有很多人作品也没什么
但是他们就敢于去做这件事情

(43:12):
哦对
我其实也是一我其实不算了
我不算是那一代了
其实我也是看到那么多00后就这样做
我才发现
我再不做我真的就老了
我得去学习他们的这种精神嗯
但我觉得这个这个不需要担心
因为我觉得真的真的
就是
因为我觉得现在这个这个时代啊

(43:33):
嗯如果你想要被束缚
那你就会被束缚
如果你不想被年龄束缚
你可以不接受这些束缚
是的对是的
别人告诉我35岁我不可以做演员
我就继续做
就喜不喜欢
这是其他人的问题
是的是的
刚刚Tommy讲到其另外一个问题
就是听歌的问题
我觉得很多
就是我觉得听众他选什么歌曲

(43:54):
但是他们自己无所谓
但是我觉得作为一个合格的音乐人
你是什么都得听的
这个是我一直坚持的一个点
你不去听各方面的音乐的曲风
你怎么去学习到更多新的东西
所以这个我还是推荐大家不管
呃看到观众有做音乐的朋友
我真的推荐大家任何的曲风都得去听

(44:15):
什么从死核到说唱到摇滚到朋克给我
到古典给我
到声乐给我
到那种音乐剧
全部给我听个遍
哪怕影视配乐你都得听
所以
我觉得这是一个才叫一个专业素养
哈哈
素 养
是从真的是从一个制作人的角度去啊
对对对
去看待音乐创作这个问题
对呀
因为我觉得如果你不全部听一遍

(44:39):
你怎么真的能说我喜欢这个啊
对对对
因为你只听这个
那你只喜欢这个
当然可是这个是因为你只听这个
你必须要有很多选择
然后回到这边说this is what i like
那我才知道这个是你真的喜欢
但当然像他们刚刚说
我是以制作人的一个角度去说
其实你刚刚不说

(44:59):
这点我还没反应过来啊
你真的是
你这样一说我才反应过来哎
宏观的角度去看
是比较像一个制作人的一个东西
但是如果比如说像很多英文
他买Beats的
他可能就
他知道自己已经就像往这方面走了
那其实也没有必要
但是我说听歌的方向
如果多学一点也是好事情 对哦
我可能把刚才get到
我可能把路给走歪了

(45:20):
哈哈哈没关系啊
因为我也没有完全听懂你
你现在解释啊
that makes sense啊
我才反应过来他说的很有道理
所以你们两个现在觉得啊
这个行业还是很有发展空间吗
还是你觉得现在不错
因为有 就像你说的
有那么多人都在做这件事

(45:43):
有那么多人全部也上了Spotify
也上了网易
就it's hard现在
嗯 你觉得这个还有发展空间吗 还是
我觉得是有的
嗯
我在思考很多
我在思考很多方面
就是你先说
你先说
因为我觉得
就我们这样看待这个问题

(46:04):
就是以前还没有Spotify这种流
媒体的时候也可能也有很多音乐人
只不过
我们没有办法去知道它们的存在
对对对 现在可能就是
他们都放在了一个流媒体上面
只不过你还没有看到他们而已
怎么没还有还没有听到他们而已
我觉得这是一个就像4演讲
就是你想要做音乐
首先你是个音乐爱好者

(46:24):
首先你要学会听别人的音乐
是的 那可能很多新的音乐人
他会去听老一辈音乐人的歌
是的 上一代的人歌去学习
我觉得这也是一个很正常的循环
至于谁能stand up
这可能有很多因素
一方面可能运气也离不开
然后另外一方面的话
你的作品
你是不是很有个性
是不是不一样

(46:44):
是不是独特
你的品质怎么样
音乐品质怎么样
我觉得这都很重要
嗯就是
我觉得娱乐行业音乐行业
它其实一直是会有市场
就嗯嗯音乐以后人还是会听
嗯虽然现在我听什么
读书比较多
听书比较多
me too
对所以就是我觉得
呃音乐的话这个市场还是会有

(47:06):
很快
对
我觉得我的看法
呃可能作为从业者来讲的话
就是我最开始进入这个行业
不是抱着说要去占一席之地
这个想法去的
所以我最开始的目的
他就不是这个目的
我的目的就是因为喜欢我进来
我才才发现原来我要去做这件事情
所以我觉得从这个心态来说

(47:28):
我不管怎么样我都是不会变的
所以他就算我能不能得到一席之地
我这个事情我还是可以做到99岁
就是我只要活着
手都 不动了
还是能唱两首歌呢
就是这个态度
先去 然后
至于说有没有发展前景
和那个有没有他们空余吧
就是还是像汤米说的
呃 那肯定是一直得有人做的

(47:49):
他前他后浪
得去铺前浪的他
总得有年轻人去做这个事情
但至于你们弄出来
那就是运气
还有很多其他成分的原因吗
对
因为有在在很多平台上都有人在说
如果现在暂停
然后再也不出音乐
你有这么多年的音乐

(48:10):
嗯 都有
都有人在听
嗯 那你听音乐的时间也有限
嗯 然后人的
就你选择这么多
你就永远听不完了
嗯 基本上无限了
现在已经听不完了
对 现在就听不完了
嗯 那为什么我听 Prince或是我听Tupac
嗯 我可以听到现在都可以听

(48:32):
对 我为什么要选择 Tommy
对 Siyan
嗯 it's hard
我觉得我有那么多竞争
是的 然后这个竞争越来越多
嗯 就我觉得
作为一个新的一进来这个行业的人
很难
很吓人的
很吓人的
是的 非常的恐怖
可是我只能说
现在年轻人

(48:53):
maybe不能跟以前的rapper达出一个共鸣
这要你要跟这个新的
一个generation达出个共鸣
你要说他们真的的感受
他们的感受是什么
你能唱出来
你能表达出来
对那哎
i like this因为we're the same
我们有对呀

(49:13):
其实就是年代
每一年代
他有自己一个年代的一个曲库吧
我感觉你不可能强求一个03年的
去听刘德华以前冷冷的冰雨在脸上
那首歌
我没选哈哈哈
我好喜欢刘德华呀
哈哈哈we're old we're old
那什么张学啊那种老一辈的人
你不可能指望他们去这样听那些歌

(49:34):
对吧 所以我觉得还是有年
你刚说的很对
跟年代还是挂钩的
对啊 那所以他永远他都有他的市场
因为我上次有Leon那个心理学医生
嗯 然后他上来的时候我就说
其实我朋友饰演有一个一首歌
就是讲哎
我有点社恐
我有一点
我社交的时候very真的假的

(49:54):
然后这个很明显
就能表达现在年轻人的一些feeling
对 就是这个才能get到
哎这些人
i'm saying what you're feeling
对你像以前八九十年代的时候
你去个澡堂子脱个衣服
那不很正常吗
嗯 谁会害羞啊
那现在年轻人可能啊
我需要一个单间

(50:15):
就是我可能对吧
所以他每个他人与人之间距离
包括年代
他也是不一样
也是不一样的
一样 我讲一个我的观点
就是我突然想起我之前前段时间吧
我在那个Instagram上看到fifty cent
嗯 它好像成为了某一个流媒体平台
什么在某一个榜单上
有史以来播放量第一的歌手

(50:37):
嗯 你像他就他都多久没有做音乐
他的歌还是翻红了
我觉得这个也是存在可能的
然后现在有很多影视作品
他们也致敬一些复古的题材
嗯
然后可能会把以前有年代感的一些歌
再翻出来
那又翻红一遍
我觉得这个
其实还存在一些这样的案例发生嘛
嗯 所以就说
我们现在的歌可能听的人不多

(50:58):
但是过几年之后又泛红又红
是的对对对
也是有可能性的
我还是总体来说比较积极哈哈哈
yeah you have to be
要嗯otherwise
你为什么在做这个嘛
因为你越是仔细想这个事情
你就可能给自己的心理负担越大
要给自己洗一下脑子
还不如一头扎进去
不要想 你好好做就行了
对我
我之前写过一首歌

(51:18):
我其实很少写这样的歌
那首歌叫有我的微信是你的荣幸
哦呦
我真的是
第一次用中文名去命名一首歌
然后这整整首歌都是在讲
那么你加我微信
你要好好跟我聊天
你不能不回我信息
就讲这种东西
然后我当时是觉得 哎
有在Dat伤到过
对哈哈哈对
我也是我第一个
被你发现了

(51:39):
有在Dat伤到过
被你发现了
然后我当时是想
这首歌应该会引起蛮多人共鸣的
然后给几个朋友听
他们都很喜欢这首歌
嗯然后给我的label就我的发行公司
听那个人讲就是他说 哎
你这个歌确实是有些点 嗯
但是能不能红真的要看运气
是的 有些歌放上网
发到网上

(52:00):
可能过个两三年才突然火起来
嗯 这个点你踩不准
嗯所以就是他建议我
你就持续的创作就好
不要想太多 对
对 不要想太多
对 是的
就像海森堡
海森堡这个角色
我第一次看完这个剧时候
我可能那时候年纪很小
我对那个角色理解跟现在理解不一样
嗯 因为他剧中人物是40多岁四五十岁

(52:20):
我现在年纪上来
虽然我没有四五十岁啊啥 没
有我快了
对哈哈哈
虽然现在我年纪上来
我对这个角色有更多的理解有共鸣
所以我想要去写这样一首歌
然后我觉得这个不妨碍我就不会
就可能很多人听完这首歌才知道哎
原来海森堡这个角色是这样的
有可能对啊
重新去理解一下这个角色

(52:41):
我觉得都有可能
嗯把你这个角色翻一下红
啊对啊
我觉得很多TV秀你后面再看一遍哦
他们在讲这个
完全不知道
对对对对对对对
i get that all the time我经常看
我们前面在聊sopranos
最开始我看的时候我就oh my god
但还是需要有背景
你才能够完整的理解他的那种

(53:02):
像我的话
我可能就没有在那个环境下生活过
我觉得难理解就有点难看得进去呀
因为我那个时候还是
就刚好住在新泽西
然后又是那个年代
所以我也见过这些
就坐在意大利餐厅外面的那些大胖子
全部都是黑黑社会的
然后就哦i get it他们当然是这样的

(53:23):
然后那个feeling就完全回来
我有的时候就哦
就是我就不自觉的想提到一点
就现在的东西跟以前的比
他确实节奏快很多了
而且大家好像都没有耐心
听完一个超过3分钟的歌了
是是是
所以而且我印象最深
我最开始做歌的时候
我就是我不懂乐理嘛
我也不会知道什么是副歌

(53:45):
什么是桥什么是主歌
嗯然后就稀里糊涂一冲血
然后一首歌平均超过5分钟
我的丢给我的那个这种人说他都
说天呐
你这个歌太长了
我给你砍到4分半钟
都已经算更长
就很长了
我当时不理解
我说你要砍我的baby
我不能够接受
但现在我发现我写歌也超不过

(54:06):
就是现在慢慢体验下来
超不过4分钟就
除非我是真的有很多要丢进去的东西
我才会慢慢的去把它加起来
但是我发现我现在写歌有个问题
就是如果新流啊新流新流在里面的话
我可能一天就把大纲全部写完
然后差不多在一周之内
我就能把那首歌完成

(54:27):
但是有的更新很奇怪
我可能写了一个一个一个REF 呃
一个Melody
可能开始了
但是我就不知道怎么去结束下去
然后我有一个有一个有个桥段
我放了两年了
我到现在我再打开那个文件
我还是写不下去
我不知道你有没有经历过这样的

(54:47):
有有有
这样的
有我也会有
就我有姓刘的时候
我最高记录是一个晚上写两首歌哇
但是我最长的时候
可能五六年才把一首歌写完
嗯 一首歌写了一半写不下去了
放了很久才对
回去再写
再写完对
我感觉
你刚才讲那个关于歌曲时长的问题
对 我觉得是一个trick
嗯 因为现在可以说你看那个先出c

(55:08):
有一首歌叫什么Doja
嗯 那首歌才是
i'm the Dojaman yeah对
好看behold more forbid my bitch is gay对对对
就这首歌
他才一分多钟耶
你循环播放的可能性就很大
对
听一遍没过瘾
对 再来一遍
再来一遍
就一直循环一直循环
但反 反而你一首歌4分钟
对别人可能会觉得听一半就够了
对 有点太长了

(55:28):
对 他们要切回去再听
可能一首歌里面我听歌是这样
就一首歌里面可能就有几个包儿
是我喜欢的
我就会反复去听的几个包儿
但如果太长的话
可能我也会切掉这首歌
所以现在我做歌
其实也一般在2分半左右
天呐 你这么一说下来
我真的发现我有种制作人的思维
我是带着批

(55:49):
不是批判性
是学习性的那种去听
我会OK 他这背景音乐用了那个音色
然后这个用了那个beat
然后这个我就会全程分析就
我很少有时间去放松去听歌了
我现在一旦听
就是我真的不能够做到
像呃 有人直接YouTube放着
然后就开始做工作 写作业
然后放歌
我是我不行
我如果写点东西

(56:10):
他有音乐的话
我就慢慢的
我的注意力就转到那个音乐上去了
我就开始听哎
他这个音色挺好玩的哎
这个声音处理的不错
我就会会飘过去
所以我不能够作为普通听众去
这个
不会影响到你的音乐的enjoyment吗
你就慢慢啊
不会其实不会的
我非常enjoy music啊

(56:31):
有的时候我let go的时候
我刚刚在来的路上
我还在广场上戴着耳机
还跳了一下
跳了一下哈哈哈
因为我不会的
我看很多
比如说啊
movie critic 嗯
他们在看电影的时候就太严格
这个不好那个不好
我说就是watch the movie
你喜欢不喜欢
对
有的时候你分析太多
我有的时候就觉得你
就你少一点乐趣

(56:52):
对你就失去了
我有的时候觉得你越笨越好
你完全这些东西都不懂
然后就笨笨的看这个movie
然后真的oh i like it okay
对对不要多说
i like good good
对
对我觉得还是快乐大于任何事情
嗯我这个还是最终宗旨的
你就不快乐
你不要去干这事
当然是是是
你得平衡

(57:12):
我同意我同意
对现在的小朋友啊
如果要要进入这个行业
你会给他什么意见
不要紧哈哈哈
开玩笑开玩笑开玩笑
我觉得我的意见是
我只能代表我个人
嗯of course
我觉得一开始不要不要全身心的进入

(57:34):
嗯就确保自己有一份嗯
稳定的收入
嗯很重要
非常重要
因为他也是一个投资
是的对是的
你要有本金
你要有实力
是的
去投资这件事情
呃
虽然我觉得我很鄙视自己这个看法
但是我觉得头部艺人
真正能赚到钱的
在这个行业里面可能就2%呀

(57:56):
3% 最多5%
所以你要成为这5%
我觉得除了努力以外
天赋真的很重要
你要有机会去测试
去看看自己是不是有天赋
去得到一些反馈
就真正呃很厉
就像就像升初心那首歌
他可能在那之前并没有很多的歌

(58:16):
就那样一首歌就出来了
就现在的社会跟以前不太一样
嗯对
我觉得现在作品堆积也是很重要的
因为你不知道哪一首作品会重
有些运气不好前两首
有些运气不好第99首
是的都有可能
所以就是
我觉得
要抱一个长期的心态去做这件事是
的
不要一下子就把所有的精力都扑进去
那样的话很容易受挫

(58:37):
是的 对对对
是的
完全同意
呃我
我的想法是哎
我感觉给什么建议
我觉得因为我也是这么来
我们大家都这么来的
都是犯了一遍错误之后自己总结
就不管不管怎么前辈给你讲
你还是得把那个坑自己踩进去
你才明白
所以我就简单说一句吧

(58:58):
你就是抱着最大的快乐去做这件事情
就可以了 你真的
因为不管我们怎么说
你不要做这个
不要这个你你那个坑一定会拆的
我就是亲身经历
我那个导
那个导师就说
你不要这样做
1234 我还是倒过头来
每一个坑都踩了个遍
然后自己才发现啊
什么什么合同不要乱签啊

(59:19):
不要这边不要乱弄啊
那个表演不要演啊
我都搞了
我估计你也是犯了这个错误
我觉得合同这个事情真的很重要
如果还有个建议的话
就是合同好好看好好看
还是真的
对合同好好看
懂法律的人帮你瞄一眼
是的
是的 特别是懂音乐行业法律的朋友
帮你看一眼
合同这个事情
还是如果你能不犯这个错误
就不要再犯这个错误了
对 我们都是犯过错误的人

(59:41):
对对对
OK好
那今天录到这边呃
真的很开心你们两个可以参加哦
i hope你们两个如果可以合作
please do我最好一个这两个人的
you know new song i'd be i'd be thrilled OK啊
大家谢谢
等一下 我还不知道他们来自哪里
你是哪个
你是 哦 你上海
本地的哦
有房吗
哈哈哈哈哈哈有房吗

(01:00:03):
有房吗 that's it OK
拜拜大家
拜拜 拜拜 拜拜
Ok，are you guys ready？
Hello everyone, Siyan and Tommy here today.
Jungle Butterfly + Tommy Sire welcome to my podcast
It's an honor.
Thank you for inviting me.
Today I want to talk about music
Because you two are basically my only music friends
So it just so happens that you two just met, right?
Yes, we haven't met.
Five minutes.
We both said about ten minutes.
Why don't you both tell us how you got into music?
What projects are you working on now?
You should start first.
No no no Tommy first
How did you start?
Elders go first, ha ha ha.
The elderly come first.
Respect the old and love the young.
Ha ha ha.
I started making music quite early.
It was in two thousand eight or nine.
Wow, you're really a senior.
Yeah, when I was in college.
You are really a senior.
I was in my teens.
Grade six, right?
I started in two thousand eight or nine.
I started writing lyrics and composing songs.
and I've been doing it until now.
How did you start?
Just because I like it.
Because I like it.
Then I used to perform at school by singing other people's songs
Then one day I decided I didn't want to sing other people's songs
I wanted to sing my own songs.
Then I started writing.
I didn't expect writing songs wasn't particularly difficult for me.
Then maybe in one night,
I wrote a song.
Then I feel as if I have some interest in this area
and talent.
Then I kept trying
and started writing.
Then I do have the project.
Because I released quite a few songs last year.
I released two EPs and two singles last year
A total of twelve songs.
I actually wrote a lot of songs last year.
I plan to record and produce them one by one this year.
and release them.
The song I wrote recently is about New Year's Eve.
It was written on the night of the New Year's Eve, someone else was having New Year's Eve dinner
You're writing at home. What are you doing?
Yes, you've all seen that song.
That BREAKING BAD
Yeah.
And that song is called Heisenberg.
Okay.
Actually, I didn't want to write about Heisenberg.
But in the middle of it, I put Heisenberg.
There's a lyric they call me Heisenberg
because I know chemistry.
I felt it fitted the song very well.
Ha ha ha, and then I wrote the whole song.
while writing it,
I felt like writing my own life story.
Yeah, it's just an ordinary-looking person.
but he has some knowledge,
some talents and abilities.
And after he became evil,
and did something very unusual.
And I felt it was quite interesting.
And he has a personality similar to mine.
That's his business
the dark side?
Did you say Mr White?
Right
He does Heisenberg. He's very, very, very low-key.
but he also wants to be famous.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I feel like I also want to keep a low profile.
So I usually go out very low-key.
I also want to be famous.
It feels like myself.
Yes.
It's a conflict.
Yeah, this should be a song I'll release recently.
So, Tommy, what's your musician name?
It's Tommy Sire.
Tommy Sire.
Yes.
Is there
Is there a Chinese translation?
If there is no Chinese for us,
or English friends.
In Chinese, molasses is stuffed with teeth
Mmm, it's stuck in teeth.
Yes, sugar.
This is the sugar that we eat.
which is the honey of honey.
It gets stuck in teeth.
I think this is quite a coincidence.
Yes.
No, no.
I've been using this Chinese for a long time.
Someone thought of it for me.
Then call me Tommy.
And then I thought about how to get stuck.
just to get stuck in my teeth.
That's good.
I think it's quite fun.
Yes, it's good.
What about you, Siyan?
Um.
I'm Jungle Butterfly.
And my Chinese name is Jungle Butterfly.
And it's because I had an English name first,
and then I got a Chinese name.
Uh.
It's because some friends
OK, let me talk about how I started my music career.
Then let me talk about the origin of my name.
At first,
when I was in college,
I worked part-time outside.
and did some activities like beer festivals.
There was a beer festival at that time.
at the Garden Hotel.
garden hotel那个Beer-nanza
I don't know if you know that event is called right.
Beer-nanza a long time ago
They said it would last for three consecutive days,
and there were bands every day.
But on the third day, there weren't many guests.
I saw a punk band.
and I didn't know
I didn't know it was punk.
At that time, I didn't know anything about music.
uh, what's it called?
style of music.
Then I knew that
Most of the Chinese
a bunch of foreigners were playing there
and having fun.
I want to join in the fun.
But there were no customers.
I ran over.
And they had African drums,
and there were microphones.
I just looked around and fiddled with things.
And then that, um,
the leader of the band
maybe the leader,
came to me and said,
I think your voice is pretty good,
and you're not shy.
and you seemed to be an outgoing person.
Would you like to
if you're interested,
If you want to be our lead singer, there's a chance.
Yeah.
No, at that time, he didn't say he was the lead singer.
he said there was a Halloween event
our friend needed a backup vocal.
You can try it.
I said yes.
I said okay, no problem, and added WeChat.
We didn't contact for half a year.
Then half a year later,
he said,
Halloween is coming,
we need to rehearse, and I introduced her to my girlfriend.
At that time, it was just a
it was like the rock music played by foreigners.
more rock music.
When is that YYT?
There were more foreigners in that circle,
So I hung out with those foreign friends
play this music.
Then after we finished the performance,
they said you sang really well,
and he had a good personality, I think.
Then the boy who approached me at that time
he said our band just left,
and asked if I wanted to try.
And I said, okay,
and I would like to try.
And I was angry at that time.
I was so angry that I said Zero exactly Zero.
But I had learned piano before.
I learned it when I was a kid.
Yes, I learned musical instruments.
but I didn't know anything about music theory.
I was a piano teacher.
I used to teach piano to little kids.
You just play according to the sheet music.
You dare not.
Just be reliable.
The teacher wouldn't teach you anything else.
It was a very exam-oriented education.
We took exams from level one to level seven.
I only passed the seventh level.
I really didn't want to learn piano anymore.
And I was in junior high school,
so I stopped learning piano.
But I had a foundation in piano.
But then I joined the rehearsal.
And then I experienced the first rehearsal.
Uh, sorry.
The story is a bit long.
Then I experienced it.
And then he said that it was our first time here,
in an underground
kind of rehearsal room.
which was wet, damp, and dark.
There are many rehearsals like this in Shanghai.
I have a vivid picture.
But at that time, I thought, wow,
I'm so cool.
I was so cool.
I'm Pengke, you know?
Then I joined the rehearsal.
They printed the sheet music for the first time.
and there was just an ABCD.
that is
what's the method of reading sheet music?
I'm not sure.
But I had learned piano sheet music before,
I can read the staff.
Yes, but I wasn't familiar with ABCD at that time.
But I know it's Do Re Mi Fa So La.
Then he said that core is A major.
That chord is b minor whatever
Then he said you just hum along.
I said what does humming along mean?
You guys.
Do you write songs?
Do you have any melody?
He said yes.
but I'm not the lead singer.
You can refer to the reference I sent you.
I said, well, I'll just sing along.
He said, well, it's okay if you don't want to sing along.
I was crazy at that time.
I was completely
I was crazy at that time.
I said I couldn't.
I had no idea about improvisation.
I didn't have any idea about it.
At that time, I couldn't even open my mouth.
When he asked me to let go,
I couldn't even open my mouth.
I was very scared.
Later, he said it's okay, take your time.
I'll send you the audio.
you can still sing along with him,
but you can sing your own ideas.
Yes, and then after that,
because there were more foreign friends,
so their way may be more
more personal.
Later,
It will stimulate your own ideas more.
instead of copying what they did before.
So they gradually, um,
induce, induce,
induce you,
and then gradually discover that
I can improvise
and improvise these things.
and sing some songs.
and then with them.
After two years, I learned a lot of stage experience.
We performed at many Yuntang and
and then played in some underground bars.
and also performed in some small
which is local commercial music in Shanghai.
and music festivals. Then, with enough stage experience,
Oh,
I think
I thought it was good to do it myself.
Then gradually,
it's been a long time,
you exceeded your limit, I think.
after reaching the peak,
I felt there was nothing new.
That's when I started to have the opportunity.
because I found that
there was GarageBand on the iPhone.
which is GarageBand.
Oh, GarageBand.
Yes, I am.
I was bored on the train and playing with my phone.
and saw this.
It's always been there,
but I never opened it.
Yes.
It's on every iPhone,
I never opened it.
I haven't opened it yet.
Everyone has it on their phone.
Then I chatted.
Hmm, what is this?
I said it's always been a tuning tool.
Then I opened it and started playing.
And the first beat was made from there.
But, but I didn't.
I didn't make it at once.
Actually, the first beat
took me a month and a half.
It only took a few minutes and a few tracks.
But at that time, I just clicked every day.
I just clicked like this.
And then I became addicted to it.
I started to do more and more.
Then from phone to iPad,
Then to the first mini keyboard.
Then to the computer.
Then I bought Logic Pro X,
that software.
which is Apple's own software.
Then I bought my first microphone.
and then to
It just accumulated slowly.
But at that time, I never thought that
but I never thought
I said I must do it later.
Because I was still in school at that time,
and hadn't graduated yet.
It was my senior year.
So it started from that time.
Yeah, I think you
one point that is particularly exciting is that
When you learn piano, he teaches you.
Yes, it's reliable.
Every time I teach dancing in the written test,
is exactly the same.
I see those you know how to say
all dance studios teach you how to dance my dance.
The choreographer tells you how to dance, and you just do it.
But they also said that I don't want to dance your dance.
I want to dance my own.
Because I think dance and music are exactly the same.
It's about how I express myself.
But when I dance your dance, it's how I express you.
is completely different.
I don't want to dance your dance.
I don't want to sing your songs.
I want to sing my song.
I want to express myself.
Well, especially in Asia,
I often do what the director says.
I just do what they say.
Instead of giving my own ideas.
And when I play by myself,
I think I'm much happier.
Have they learned it before?
Yes.
Yes.
No, never.
There are people.
I agree with what Otto just said.
Someone asked me to teach others how to write songs.
I won't teach.
I don't have a formula.
I just express myself.
I just think about how I write songs.
I'll tell you my way.
Whether it works or not is up to you.
That's it.
Actually, you can continue.
Someone asked me to write an outline,
I said if you ask me to teach,
I can explain it in three minutes.
Ha ha ha.
I don't know if you can use it.
Yes, that's it.
When I was learning piano,
I think in terms of the way of education,
because you don't know what self is.
At that time, teachers wouldn't teach you about yourself.
But I think it actually needs to be combined.
and technique is also very important.
But how to guide children's interest?
So I think what is missing is
So when I joined this band,
they guided me in this aspect.
I was very happy.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
This is very rare.
Because I think most schools,
or here
or in the US,
don't teach you how to be yourself.
They just think that's what the textbooks say,
You learn the things in the textbook.
and my goal is achieved.
Right, as a teacher,
I teach you the textbook,
and you will learn the things in the textbook.
I check the box,
I check off the list instead of how the student plays.
more like yourself,
and express themselves better.
Education is also a big topic.
It's so hard.
Details like this.
The biggest problem now
Well, because everyone is not the same.
Everyone is a unique individual.
Anyway, I feel that I am similar to them.
is to start with interests.
We just discovered this interest point
and gradually explored it ourselves.
Yeah.
I have some talent.
Ha ha ha.
Yes, yes, um.
So I also invited you two to come here.
Ha ha ha.
This episode will definitely be exciting.
Ha ha ha.
So I'm curious about the current music industry
the music industry
looks like in China.
Because I don't know anything about it.
The only thing I know is
I often see many people on YouTube saying that
I'll post my stuff on
on Apple or Post to Spotify
and hope to get some traffic or YouTube views.
and earn some ad revenue.
I don't know if in China
if this model is reasonable
or not.
I don't know how to do this.
You go first, ha ha ha.
我
I think it's the royalties,
just that
I think
And then the scream is quite important.
Yes.
For me,
if I want to make money from music,
I think this is my ultimate goal.
Because if a musician
if his music is played less,
I wouldn't think he is a good musician.
This is the first point.
First, his music should be good.
It should be liked,
and be played repeatedly.
I think that's good music.
And then,
the income of top artists in royalties
is considerable.
Yes.
I read a news a few years ago.
I remember I talked about it last time I came here,
that Drake's song
reached a certain number of plays on Spotify,
which was worth eighty million dollars in royalties.
Wow, just one song.
Wow.
And I think
this is the ultimate goal that every musician should pursue.
ultimate goal.
But for those of us who are just starting out
or those who are interested in music,
it's really hard to create income from this.
Because I don't know
Do you produce all the songs by yourself?
Yes.
Most of them.
I can cover ninety-nine percent of the production myself.
Yes.
The money he may spend on production
Uh.
Yes, very stable.
I also need to buy
I have to pay for recording.
OK.
所以
The cost of making a song is relatively
high.
So,
I need a certain royalty to cover my costs
to break even.
to break even.
I used to be able to,
but not in the past two years.
I found that I'm out of date.
maybe no one listens to my new songs.
And then, in addition,
I think there is another point.
after your music's plays increase,
your performances will definitely increase.
Yes, yes.
It's a very positive cycle.
Yes.
Yes, and then with more performances,
more music,
then you will have more opportunities.
Some film and television works may use your music
as background music.
you can get the commercial
commercial royalty.
sink license.
Then you may receive some business,
endorsements,
or events.
I think this is a positive cycle.
If many people
use music just as
a label for themselves,
or a carrier,
but they don't want to make money from music itself,
or gain traffic and money,
they may just want to do some advertisements.
which are easily eliminated.
I think
maybe over time,
others see this face,
this face is pretty,
and listen to his music, wow,
is so bad.
Some people may be like me,
are quite ordinary.
and others look at you,
and listen to your music,
and think the music is not bad.
Ha ha.
It may be the reason why I was not popular before.
对
So I think for me,
I think the number of music plays is my ultimate goal.
ultimate goal.
OK.
Many people used to record labels
and then start touring.
This is the most basic
the basic model before
Is it still suitable?
To be honest,
I have been in this industry for a short time.
because I just realized that it is a business.
I started making music just because of interest.
But now I find that I really love this thing.
I couldn't stop doing this thing.
I decided to enter this industry.
This, this,
this business.
Then I realized it's a business.
It's not just
It's not just about making music
and you're done having fun.
If you want to truly become a
a musician known to everyone,
you need to enter this industry
and you need to use it to make money.
So far, I
I can say that
my years
I may have only earned seventeen yuan.
Ha ha ha, I opened NetEase CloudMusic to see seventeen yuan.
But recently,
because everyone has grown up,
If I don't keep up with the trend,
what should I do?
So I think what I have seen,
including the experiences that Tommy just mentioned,
I have been experiencing them recently.
I have experienced them firsthand.
I've been working hard on offline performances for two years,
But I found a big problem.
As you said,
If you don't have traffic, you can't sell tickets.
You will lose money.
Two days ago,
I just did the biggest
a loss-making performance.
And from then on, I decided that I had to get traffic online first.
and fans,
and fans, and annual income.
before I do the offline promotion.
I went to Chongqing and Chengdu for a one-way show.
I lost five thousand yuan on the way.
Wow, you really.
For a young person who just graduated
and unstable job,
and working very hard
for a young person who wants to settle down in Shanghai,
five thousand yuan is really a lot.
Yes.
Plus, it's very frustrating.
Yes, it's really tiring.
But recently, a good thing is that
I found that if
if your positive feedback traffic,
if it goes viral online,
you can receive some advertisements,
and do some promotion,
Especially in the music field,
your promotion can lead to your
music platform.
everyone can listen.
Because before, I wasn't just
Some people may have really good songs
but maybe they just don't know how to promote it.
Yes.
So many aspects are very problematic.
Let's go back to Arthur's question.
I think the market now may be
two ways.
If your label is willing to promote you,
that's very good.
But if you can do it yourself,
like self-media.
now is the era of self-media.
If you can seize this opportunity,
you can get on this train,
and bring your own traffic,
then independent musicians are not that bad.
there is indeed a difference.
Unless it depends on your own purpose.
If you want to become like the Grammys,
Grammy Award-winning superstars,
then you may have to
you must get close to some big brands
and use their channels to promote.
If you don't want to,
You're like a lot of American musicians who have gone viral in America.
come to China for tours to make money.
They can already be very rich.
They don't want to be
Grammy-winning independent musicians.
That's good.
It depends on which path you choose.
You both mentioned that this is actually a business
You can't see yourself as just an artist.
Because I think if you just do art
many people fail at this point.
I don't care.
I've seen many in the F&B industry.
In the F&B industry,
many chefs say that
this is my art.
I don't care.
I don't need to conform to these personal ideas.
This is my art.
Whether you like it or not is your business.
Then the restaurant owner will say,
I need to make money.
I don't care if it's art or not.
Yes, I need to make money.
Okay, so that led to a lot of musicians needing an agent.
the agent manages the money,
and you focus on the art.
But now I think
many people don't have agents,
and want to do it themselves.
But if they don't have business sense,
they will fail at this point.
Yeah.
And many restaurants
and many other businesses fail at this point.
It's because they don't have a business idea.
Yes.
Let me add something.
about the streaming service we just talked about.
Yes.
Actually, I
how I used to operate.
I was actually lucky.
it was my first song.
not the first song,
It was the first song that became popular.
I released a song in twenty eighteen.
and I cut a clip
and uploaded it to the background of TikTok.
the background of TikTok Musician.
Oh, I know the phone number of TikTok.
They said they thought my song was good,
and ask if I could help you with the ranking.
I said of course.
They said I had to give them a free license
and we'll help you with the ranking.
I said yes, and they authorized us for three years.
I said OK, and then
That song
became popular on TikTok somehow.
Many people took my music clip
to make videos.
Yes.
Then I saw on NetEase Cloud Music
there were many people leaving comments under my song,
from TikTok.
from TikTok.
I realized that this song became popular on TikTok.
My song had three hundred million views on TikTok,
but I didn't get any money.
No money.
Yes.
But I was actually quite early in twenty eighteen.
I didn't seize the opportunity.
I didn't continue to release more songs.
In the same way,
How to write the flow
is important.
Yes, and then that song of mine quickly
within a year,
less than a year.
reached over five million plays on NetEase CloudMusic.
Wow.
But now it's completely different.
Now I find that
In the past,
people in the past
maybe five or six years ago,
we opened music streaming platforms' apps
we opened it frequently.
I might open it every day.
NetEase CloudMusic, but now people's habits are
I open Xiaohongshu every day.
watch TikTok every day.
I don't listen to music at all.
So now many people
maybe the algorithm on TikTok
recommends songs to you,
you will search for it.
For new musicians like us,
may not have a chance to be recommended.
Unless you buy traffic yourself.
Including NetEase CloudMusic.
Now its backend has changed.
that is, you need to pay,
it will give you traffic.
Well, I haven't seen this way before.
I tried.
I charged fifty yuan,
but it couldn't promote much.
It may add thousands of broadcasts to you,
thousands of views.
But if your song is really good,
it can multiply to thousands of views.
If others like or share it, the number may increase.
Actually, there is a loophole.
because it's not targeted at your customer group.
They just randomly push it.
Because they may not be your target audience,
They don't want to listen to your songs.
They listen to it,
they may just scroll past it.
So a friend of mine had a good suggestion that
one advantage of being a niche musician is that
that is, you know how to target your customer group.
For example, if you have this style now,
you can find people to listen to your songs.
you can learn from their characteristics,
such as in which city,
how old he is, and what kind of job he has.
and then you can target that customer group to promote.
Instead, it will be accurate.
so that you can better
to multiply.
to bring out.
In fact, it was the same when I invested in TikTok.
You just spend money
and they just randomly invest it in
in the traffic pool.
and they don't care who your audience is.
So during that time,
there were many people over seventy years old.
over seventy years old.
old ladies.
They were really old ladies.
You are great, ha ha ha.
His emojis are great.
They are really good, and then those elderly people
The emoji
and the big red flower was still flashing.
Good night.
It's so cute.
Shiyan just said that
His friend said that you should write songs according to your audience.
I think this is a good way.
But actually, I have always been unwilling to compromise.
Not writing songs, I mean
I mean, it's about traffic.
Yes.
Because no matter what you write,
I always believe that someone will appreciate you.
Yes, yes, I understand you.
I just found this.
It's just a matter of popularity.
Yes, yes, yes, it's just a
the difference between Taylor Swift and Taylor's Creator.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
I love Taylor Swift, not the old Taylor Swift.
She has become stronger now.
You don't like it?
Now she's too popular.
I think it's just Taylor one to three, the first three albums
the best
And then I don't know what happened to her.
The Queen will also lose some fans.
I don't know.
So you two think this niche community is now online
Can you still type in?
Well, because now I see that we were all in one big pool.
Now I think it's a small pool,
a small pool.
Hmm.
It's not something everyone can enjoy
Now every snack has its own threshold
to enter.
Whether it's language,
or interests,
Everyone creates some walls for their own circle
Everyone needs to break in.
I think it's a very tiring thing.
Indeed.
I have closed those doors.
Ha ha ha, actually,
I don't have much contact
I don't have much contact with friends in the rap circle.
I even know a friend
I've known him since college.
Maybe it's been sixteen or seventeen years since then.
We've known each other for so long,
I didn't contact him for five or six years.
I just contacted him recently.
What have you been up to lately?
Yeah, exactly.
Because of my
my personal experience is like this.
Since twenty fourteen,
I started working with my American friend
to make music together, Brian.
We may have more exchanges about music.
we had more exchanges and collisions.
Then I started to go to the studio
and the studio was also run by foreigners.
Well, then many of my current beat producers are also foreigners
Yes, me too.
Then I found that working with Chinese and foreigners
there are some differences.
For example, I wrote a demo
I sent it to my beat producer
or you listen to this demo and see how it is.
or I send it to my song engineer.
Yes.
Then they listen to this oh that is fire that is dope
They will give you a lot of encouragement
and feedback.
I go to the studio.
If there are many,
sometimes I meet some
local sound engineers,
You should sing like this.
Ha ha ha.
This is not bad.
This is good.
I think it's OK.
It's just very bland.
it doesn't show that strong kind of
without emotional value.
Yes, and then at this time I will
I actually feel a sense of落差.
Yes.
So,
the door between me and the domestic market hasn't opened.
It's all closed.
So, actually,
I don't really care, do I?
whether I enter this circle or not.
Because what's the use of this circle?
You are a rapper too
I'm a rapper too
We support each other.
It's better for me to find my audience.
Yeah, I feel that way.
Yes.
How can I say?
I feel that doing what you call this circle thing,
When I first started making music,
just two or three years ago.
I felt like a newborn calf not afraid of tigers.
I felt like I wasn't old enough.
I thought I was amazing.
You can buy beats, but I can write my own songs.
I wrote my own stuff, and I looked down on you.
I just felt like this.
I performed a few times myself.
And many people said offline that I was so beautiful
and marry me.
I felt like
I felt like I was flying in the sky.
But later I found that I was hit hard by reality.
because I felt like I was nothing.
Ha ha ha.
How did I find out?
I think that at the moment,
when you start creating something,
you do it because of excitement.
But when you really enter the professional field,
you realize that you are just a small fish and shrimp.
you are not professional at all.
It's so unprofessional.
I used to record a vocal and pass.
Then I watched other people's
What Billie Eilish documentary people record 100 "ah"
or one by one instrument.
They really need to know the way.
And that's the biggest question I've ever had from the beginning.
Any interest will have laziness.
Yes.
And now I see that I think wow
I thought it was really unprofessional.
So now that I have gradually entered the professional field,
I just found out
many things require win-win cooperation.
I can't hide from my peers.
Yes.
It's good to have jealousy,
Because I want to become better.
So I have opened up a lot now.
Since this year, I have gradually started
Uh.
more musician friends.
I didn't play with musicians before.
I just feel at home that
I don't like your stuff.
Your stuff is rubbish.
But now I think it's wrong.
My thoughts are really wrong.
No matter what it is, it has its audience.
Even if I don't know much about country music,
or I may not understand it,
but they still have their audience.
but people can resonate with it.
Taylor Swift
can sell so many tickets.
So now I understand.
I said, OK, you can't stand still.
I have to go out first.
Only after I go out can my stuff go out.
So I've always been a solo producer.
because of the limitations of poverty.
Ha ha ha.
and your ability.
and the limitation of poverty.
So I can only do it myself.
and self-sufficient.
It's easy to become self-sufficient.
Because I've been dealing with myself all the time.
Now, gradually,
and then,
For example, I often tell you on Xiaohongshu that
I think most people in China
are shy to praise others.
and receiving praise.
Yes, yes, yes, and sometimes when you receive praise,
you don't know how to respond.
For example,
Ha ha ha, just kidding.
I've practiced it.
I've practiced it.
Because before when others said, wow, you are so
I would panic.
I didn't know.
but now it's a little better.
So what I just wanted to say is
Yes, for example, on social media,
I see something I approve of,
I will comment.
I would say wow, that's great.
and if I really think it's right,
I will learn from the spirit of aunties.
and then I see
such as those who want to collaborate,
or something that I think
I'm afraid that they won't like me.
In this case,
It's better to give it a try.
I'll just send them a direct message saying,
I like your stuff.
Let's work together.
Just give it a try.
So I'm forcing myself to do this now.
I gradually find that
the more shameless you are,
the wider your path becomes.
Ha ha ha ha ha.
This is me.
Yes, really.
His state is the most passionate time for me.
Oh.
right?
I think I should be like that now.
I feel that
the musicians in China
First, I grew up listening to English rap.
Yeah, yeah.
I haven't listened to much Chinese rap in China.
and I don't particularly like them.
But I don't think those singers
their songs are not good.
Yeah.
I will listen to them,
but I probably won't listen to them repeatedly.
And also,
I also think I can't make songs like theirs.
We can communicate and learn from each other.
and learn from each other.
But I may not be able to make songs in your style.
and you might not like my style.
So I think
I used to, in twenty eighteen,
I posted a lot of songs.
Yes.
the first half of twenty eighteen,
and before eighteen,
I posted many songs.
I would send demos to friends before releasing them.
Others would give me advice.
And then I would change it according to their opinions.
And then the songs I released,
I think only those who gave me advice would like it.
but others didn't like it.
Then one time I posted that song
became popular.
I didn't have a demo for that song.
I didn't play it to anyone.
maybe the producer
and my best friend.
just a few people.
They said it was good
and didn't need to change.
After I released it,
and it became popular.
I think in music,
I still want to be myself.
Of course.
including me.
I have also accepted some program invitations before.
But at that time, it was very early.
Rap was still very niche in twenty fourteen.
The program team told me that
if I could change the lyrics into Chinese.
Okay, after a month,
How about the lyrics?
I couldn't do it.
I found it was wrong.
I had to deny myself.
It's hard to change it.
Yes.
I really appreciate that.
I think no matter
呃
maybe I'm in the hot and passionate stage now,
but when I'm making my own stuff,
I still need to keep my own preferences.
If you don't like the thing you made yourself,
how can you be worthy of your conscience?
That's definitely not okay.
And no matter how niche it is,
there will always be people who listen to you.
So I fully agree with that.
don't do something for others.
That's the wrong order.
How can you pretend?
You can't pretend.
Yes, yes.
You can't pretend.
the mask will become thicker and thicker.
And in the end, who am I?
Yes, yes.
You both mentioned the same point.
I've been thinking about it recently.
And Echo also mentioned it.
I feel that
especially in some Chinese internet.
many people are
It's called crabs in a bucket in English.
It's like all crabs.
When one crab runs out a little bit,
Pull one down.
When a crab is pulled down,
It's not pulling and stepping,
No, it's pulling and stepping.
How do you say that?
I don't know.
You can understand the meaning in Chinese.
But when you look at
For example,
WeChat official account,
and WeChat videos,
the video number always has the thumb-up.
At most, people silently like this thing.
but they never click the red like.
Why?
Because the thumb is invisible to others.
Others can't see it, really.
Yeah, I don't know.
The thumb-up won't be recommended.
Really.
The heart is recommended to
The heart is recommended to your other friends.
Yes, I click all three.
I just click all of them.
I don't even know what category it belongs to.
Most people will give you a like.
will give you a thumbs-up.
Oh, I see.
And on Xiaohongshu,
no one has ever clicked the pick.
They always click the good button.
They always click that.
What's good?
The heart is also a recommendation.
Yes, collect.
but others can't see it.
but not me.
There's also a good word.
Good means recommending it to others.
They will say,
Played Jungle Butterfly, recommend this video.
The point is
It's so complicated.
Can we just use a like to solve everything?
It's really complicated.
The point is that many people don't want to recommend,
because they don't want you to succeed.
This is what I found.
More and more.
I think it's most obvious in the rock climbing circle.
That is, they rarely exist in this rock pavilion
If you click in, you will be criticized.
and get scolded online.
I will never push your video
They think why should I like your video?
Many people won't give you a like.
Then I think why
Everyone agrees.
I bet everyone knows this.
So I don't understand.
Why don't people want you to become popular?
Yes.
I think many people
groups are moving in this direction.
When you first become popular,
they will pull you down.
Pull you down a little bit.
I don't like it.
Because I think on Instagram, people like to say, hey,
Hey, you're great, I like you.
Yes, yes, yes.
Well, I think
more optimistic.
I think this direction is right.
I hope all my friends succeed.
Si Yan succeeds,
Tommy succeeds.
Everyone succeeds, right?
We're friends, of course you will take me.
Why not?
So I always say this with this state of mind.
Communism is the most glorious.
Ha ha ha.
But I think this is becoming less and less common now.
I don't know if you have encountered it.
I actually have something I want to share recently.
which also makes me a little sad.
but it also makes me think that
Why not do this?
recently #TikTokrefugee came to Xiaohongshu
And then I just caught this sky-breaking traffic
I gained twenty thousand followers in two days.
It's all contributed by American people.
It's really contributed by American people.
So the content I made is
I suddenly
let me tell you,
The week before the refugees arrived
my attitude towards making music every day
was very bad.
I said I loved music on both sides,
but I really didn't have the motivation.
I felt like I wasn't being appreciated.
Although what needs to be done is not to say that there has been perfection
Let me take a look at my previous work.
It still has a lot of good things and a few bad things.
Because I've only been doing it for a year.
You can't expect me to become Tyler the Creator
They have been making music for more than ten years.
which is incomparable.
But I think I have this start,
and my heart.
I want to be recognized.
So it's sad
Why do I have to be recognized by foreign people?
And through their recognition to bring people in China
We recognize him.
Then I think
his stuff is good.
and then recommend it to people in China.
And I sing in Chongqing dialect.
and I also sing folk songs.
And there are also many ethnic elements in it.
I think it represents domestic things.
I'm very proud of it.
It's something I'm very proud of.
Maybe it's because rarity is precious.
Maybe they haven't seen it before.
So they might think it's very rare.
Ha ha ha, I think
I feel that
I think Arthur just said that.
I think some people may have this mentality.
For example, among colleagues,
they don't want you to
they don't give you a like,
or they don't leave any footprints and silently follow you.
Yes.
Yes.
basically like this.
Yes.
But I find that some people
may not be.
your WeChat friends,
or your WeChat friends,
or your fans on Xiaohongshu,
They don't give you likes,
doesn't necessarily mean they don't want you to be popular.
It's possible that they are.
my feeling is that
For example,
I saw a video of a beautiful female kol dancing.
I want to collect it,
but I don't want others to know.
I see, ha ha ha.
Many people are like this.
Guilty pleasure.
I agree.
I understand.
Yes.
Sometimes there may be some
sensitive
sensitive things.
which may be interesting to others,
but they don't want others to think they like it.
So if they don't give me a like,
I think I can understand that.
I can understand this.
Yes.
And I think it may be because, um,
those refugees gave you a batch of traffic,
and then
Xiaohongshu noticed that you had traffic,
and then push more traffic.
Maybe more people in China will see it.
So I'm still quite hopeful.
I'm quite happy that this happened.
And then, it gave me more, mainly confidence.
which gave me a lot of confidence.
Otherwise,
I wouldn't have the courage to do it again.
It's too sad.
You don't understand.
You don't get encouragement.
I understand.
It's really exhausting.
It's really tiring.
I've been feeling this way for a while.
But I'll share a story with you.
Okay, I've read a book before.
He said that
all success is built on numbers.
For example, you see only a few of Picasso's paintings,
but you may not have seen more of his paintings.
Well, there is one.
There was a foreign friend who made music with me
a foreign friend who made music with me.
He told me that
he said you can't support it
you can't support it.
Oh, right.
I've heard that before.
I think this is to eliminate those distractions.
Whether others pay attention to me
Sometimes I feel very uncomfortable.
But I need to exclude distractions.
Yeah.
Always believe that the next song will be more popular
Yes, you're right.
That's very right.
That's very right.
Even when I'm feeling down,
I still go to the studio on time every day
to write down the song.
I haven't given up on this.
You are much more self-disciplined than me.
I only write when I'm down.
This, this.
Because my mentor is quite
He is also a Frenchman.
After he finished producing my EP,
he said that you now
you have talent now.
There are too many people.
You either take your ass to the studio every day
work like a ten hours nineteen hours straight
you are not calling yourself musician
He also said that
you are not professional.
He said only amateurs play it.
Uh.
only amateurs play it as a hobby.
Only professionals take it as a job.
So this sentence
changed my thoughts on music.
At that time, I decided that okay,
I want to do music.
and treat it as a job.
Very impressive.
It's the same for you.
your podcast.
No, no, you've been blogging for so many years
and never give up.
I think I will always be an amateur in this thing.
Because you know my favorite is actually this
嗯
I think this post is my least favorite piece
Totally don't care about this stuff
We all
We all like it.
I'm chatting with two friends here.
I'm happy to hear you talking like this.
Well, I don't publish.
it's okay.
But I think this thing
A paper program has taught me a lot.
and let me know many good things.
That's the best.
I think this is already much better than many people
but don't do it.
much better than many people who say they will do it.
But you mentioned one point.
the TikTok refugee you just mentioned
has been lingering in my mind.
Because I think
The F&B industry is exactly the same as you just said.
Yes.
I think in foreign countries,
especially abroad,
Yes.
Many Chinese people do not have the pride in Chinese food
Yes.
So Chinese food is always run by Chinese people to say
Ah, this can be cheaper.
This can be more authentic.
I see what you mean.
French people never do this.
For example,
They think French things are so good
and deserve this price.
They are very proud
Then Chinese sometimes think of Chinese food
I go back to my hometown
The same goes for this thing, and then it can be cheaper.
They always look down on their own people.
I think
may be the fundamental problem of education from the beginning,
is the lack of confidence at the bottom.
They may use a repressive education method.
We didn't have confidence since we were young.
Actually, my confidence is
I slowly found it back after I started making music.
I didn't have confidence at first.
Because when you look at those abroad,
in Chinatown, every restaurant has some Chinese people.
they would go in and say,
this is okay.
but they don't.
I used to eat better here.
It's always a downgrade.
instead of saying wow.
Chinese food is really worth it.
Chinese food is really amazing.
Just feel that the pride is not there
I think this is really
This is a big problem.
This is because of national character.
I went to
The Japanese would say,
This is worth this price.
It should be more expensive.
This thing should be more expensive.
Why is it so cheap here?
They will also suspect in this direction.
It's the opposite.
I think that
think the same way.
It's completely different.
Sometimes I think everyone needs to be more confident.
Yes, confidence.
Yes, I take out my stuff.
It's good stuff.
Yes, it's worth the price.
You don't just charge high prices, okay?
you are wrong.
I think this attitude is right.
Only in this way can we continue to raise it higher.
Otherwise，
You have been making your own industry
and lower your own industry and things.
I don't like that either.
I don't like that either.
It also needs a balance.
It also needs a balance.
Because it's also a matter of degree.
If you are too confident,
are you being conceited?
Yeah, so beauty
we're not pulling one down to lift the other.
I don't say that.
Anyway, we just need to grasp the degree better.
Of course, yes.
I definitely do.
I hope more people in China are like us young people.
Young people will encourage each other.
and cooperate.
I think there are more and more young people in Shanghai.
That's the case.
I think it's good to experience it.
there are still many young people.
because everyone is poor.
Let's cooperate next.
we are all poor.
I think
In fact, when you have limited resources,
you can stimulate your creativity.
you have to make it happen.
So how do you do it?
When you have no money,
you are the most creative.
I agree.
Yeah.
I think when you are the saddest and most emotional,
Hungry, yeah, hungry.
That's when you can create something new.
Nowadays, many young people
only listen to Chinese rap,
They don't listen to others.
This is a very important thing.
They don't listen.
They only recognize some domestic
the names of some rappers they mentioned.
I don't even know.
Then I communicate with them.
Maybe I listen to Can you.
Malik.
I listen to Drake.
I listen to J. Cole.
So this kind of thing happens to them.
So Chinese rap
is a very independent thing.
Yeah.
So because my music is a mix of Chinese and English,
I might be more inclined towards American rap.
Because my production is all
I listened to these things since I was a child.
Yes, I was influenced by them more.
I eat what I rap.
So it may cause my audience to be less now.
Yeah.
People had fewer choices before.
They just listened to you.
Now there are many choices.
And I think being a rapper
it's not actually a difficult thing for me.
it may not be a particularly difficult thing.
There are many.
I went to a fan meeting the other day.
I also met many young children.
One of them was born in two thousand and six.
he asked me how old I was.
I'm eight or nine.
He said, Oh, you're about the same age as my mom.
Wow, that hurts.
Then I thought
Then he said that many people's works are not good,
but they dare to do it.
Oh, right.
Actually, I'm not.
I don't belong to that generation.
I saw so many post-zeroes doing this,
I just realized
If I don't do it, I will really be old.
I need to learn their spirit.
But I don't think this is a problem.
because I think really, really,
actually
because I think in this era,
Well, if you want to be bound,
you will be bound.
If you don't want to be bound by age,
you can not accept these constraints.
Yes, yes.
Others told me I couldn't be an actor at thirty-five,
I will continue.
Just like it or not.
It's other people's problem.
Yes, yes.
Tommy just talked about another problem.
about the problem of listening to music.
I think many people
I think listeners choose what songs they like,
but they don't care.
But I think as a qualified musician,
you have to listen to everything.
This is a point I have always insisted on.
If you don't listen to various styles of music,
how can you learn more new things?
So I still recommend everyone to
If you see any friends who make music in the audience,
I really recommend everyone to listen to any genre.
From deathcore to rap to rock to punk,
Classical music to me.
to vocal music,
to musicals.
listen to all of them.
Even the soundtracks of movies and TV series.
So,
I think this is what is called professional quality.
Yeah.
Yes.
from the perspective of a producer.
Yes, yes, yes.
to look at the issue of music creation.
Yeah.
Because I think if you don't listen to it all,
how can you really say you like this?
Yes, that's right.
Because you only listen to this.
then you only like this.
Of course, but this is because you only listen to this
you must have many choices.
and then come back and say this is what I like.
Then I know that this is what you really like.
Of course, as they just said,
I'm talking from a producer's perspective.
Actually, if you hadn't said that,
I didn't realize that.
You really are.
Only after you said that, I realized it.
From a macro perspective,
it's more like a producer.
But if, for example, many English people
they buy Beats,
they might
they know they are already moving in this direction.
Then it's not necessary.
But in terms of the direction of listening to music,
It's good to learn more. Yeah, that's right.
I may have just got it.
I may have gone the wrong way.
Ha ha ha, it's okay.
Because I didn't fully understand you.
You explain it now.
That makes sense.
I just realized that he was right.
So do you two think that
is there still room for development?
Or do you think it's good now
Because as you said,
so many people are doing this.
so many people have all been on Spotify
and NetEase.
It's hard now.
Do you think there is still room for development?
I think there is.
Um.
I'm thinking a lot.
I'm thinking about many aspects.
I think there is. You go first.
You go first.
Because I think
the way we look at this problem,
Before Spotify, there was no streaming media.
there were many musicians
but
we couldn't know their existence.
Now, maybe
they are all on a streaming platform,
It's just that you haven't seen them yet.
It's just that you haven't heard them yet.
I think this is like a speech,
If you want to make music,
First, you are a music lover.
First, you need to learn to listen to other people's music.
Yes, many new musicians
will listen to the songs of the older generation.
Yes, they learn from the songs of the previous generation.
I think this is also a normal cycle.
As for who can stand out,
there may be many factors.
On the one hand, luck may also be involved.
On the other hand,
your works
whether you have personality,
whether it's different,
unique,
What about your quality?
and the quality of the music.
I think all of these are important.
Well,
I think the entertainment industry and music industry
has always had a market.
People will still listen to music in the future.
Although now I listen to
I read more books.
and more audio books.
Me too.
So I think
the music market will still exist.
Yes.
Yes.
In my opinion,
maybe as a practitioner,
when I first entered this industry,
I didn't have the idea of taking a place.
to take a place.
So my initial purpose
was not for that purpose.
My purpose is to enter because I like it.
I just realized that I wanted to do this.
So from this perspective,
I will not change no matter what.
Whether I can get a place or not,
I can still do this until I'm ninety-nine years old.
as long as I'm alive,
even if I can't move my hands,
I can still sing two songs.
This is my attitude.
Just do it first.
As for whether there is a development prospect,
and whether there is any room for me,
just like Tommy said,
Well, there must be someone to do it.
The new generation
to pave the way for the previous waves.
There must be young people to do this.
But as for whether you can make it,
it's just luck.
and many other reasons.
Yes.
Because there are people on many platforms saying that
if we stop now
and never release music again,
You have so many years of music.
Yes.
and people are listening.
Well, you have limited time to listen to music.
And then people
With so many choices,
you'll never finish listening to them.
Well, it's forever
It's impossible to finish now.
I can't finish listening now.
Well, then why do I listen to Prince or I listen to Tupac
I can listen to them even now.
Yeah, why would I choose Tommy?
or Siyan
嗯 it's hard
I feel like there‘s so much competition
Yes, and then this competition becomes more and more
I think
as a new person entering this industry,
it's hard .
it's intimidating
it's intimidating
Yes, it's very terrifying.
But I can only say that
Young people now
may not resonate with the previous generation of rappers.
If you want to resonate with this
a generation, you can resonate with them.
If you want to resonate with them,
what their feelings are.
You can sing it.
and express it.
Yes,
I like this because we're the same.
We have the same.
In fact, it's the era.
Every generation
has its own music library of that era.
I think you can't force a person born in two thousand three
to listen to Andy Lau's song Cold Rain on the Face.
That's right.
I didn't choose it.
I really like Andy Lau.
We're old, we're old.
People like Zhang Xue from the older generation
you can't expect them to listen to those songs like that.
Right, so I think there is still a year.
You're right.
It's related to the era.
So he will always have his market.
Because last time I had Leon, the psychologist.
And when he came up, I said
Actually, my friend Shiyan has a song
It's about
I'm a little socially anxious.
I'm a little bit.
I'm very fake when I'm socializing.
And this is obviously
can express some feelings of young people now.
Yes, this is what people can get.
Hey, these people.
I'm saying what you're feeling.
Just like in the eighties and nineties,
you went to a bathhouse and took off your clothes,
it was normal.
Well, who would be shy?
But now young people might
I need a private room.
I might need a private room.
So the distance between each person
including the era.
is also different.
It's different.
Let me share my opinion.
I suddenly remembered that some time ago,
I saw fifty cent on Instagram.
He seems to have become the number one singer
on a certain list
the most-streamed singer in history.
Well, he hasn't made music for a long time,
his songs became popular again.
I think this is also possible.
And now there are many film and television works
also pay tribute to some retro themes.
Yes.
and maybe bring back some songs with a sense of age
and bring them out again.
They will be popular again.
I think this
there are some cases like this.
So,
the songs we have now may not be listened to much,
but they may become popular again in a few years.
Yes, yes, yes.
it's possible.
I'm generally more positive.
Yeah, you have to be.
Yeah.
why are you doing this?
The more you think about it,
the more psychological burden you may have.
You need to clear your mind.
It's better to just dive in.
Just do it well.
Yes.
I wrote a song before.
I rarely write songs like this.
It's called It's an honor to have my WeChat.
Oh my god.
I really am.
the first time I named a song with a Chinese name.
And the whole song is about
If you add my WeChat,
you should chat with me well.
and you can't not reply to my messages.
just like this.
And I thought at that time,
I was hurt in a date.
Ha ha ha.
I was the first one.
and you found out.
I was hurt on a date.
you found out.
And I thought
this song would resonate with many people.
Then I played it to some friends,
and they all liked this song.
Then I gave it to my label, which is my distribution company.
He said that
your song does have some points.
but whether it will be popular really depends on luck.
Yes, some songs are posted online,
and posted online,
may not become popular until two or three years later.
If you can't catch the right moment,
So he suggested me
just keep creating,
Yes, don't think too much.
Yes, don't think too much.
Yes.
Just like Heisenberg.
the character of Heisenberg.
when I first watched this drama,
maybe I was very young at that time.
my understanding of that character was different from now.
Because the character in the play is in his forties or fifties.
I'm getting older now.
Although I'm not forty or fifty years old.
I'm getting there.
Ha ha ha.
I'm getting older now.
I have more understanding and resonance with this role.
So I want to write a song like this.
But I don't think it will affect me.
Many people may not know until they listen to this song
that Heisenberg's character is like this.
It's possible.
and re-understand this character.
I think it's possible.
Well, it might make this character more popular.
Yes.
I think many TV shows you watch again later.
They are talking about this.
I have no idea.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
I get that all the time.
We were talking about The Sopranos earlier.
when I first watched it, I was like, oh my god.
But you still need context
to fully understand his kind of
For me,
I may not have lived in that environment.
I find it hard to understand and watch.
Because at that time, I was
I happened to live in New Jersey.
and it was that era.
so I also saw these
the big fat guys sitting outside the Italian restaurant
all of them were gangsters.
And then I got it.
And that feeling came back completely.
Sometimes I just
I just can't help but mention one thing,
compared to the things in the past,
it's much faster-paced.
and everyone seems to have no patience
to finish listening to a song over three minutes.
Yes, yes, yes.
So and what impressed me most
when I first started making songs,
I didn't know music theory,
and I didn't know what the chorus was,
or what a bridge or a chorus is.
I just wrote songs in a daze.
and each song was over five minutes on average.
When I gave it to my producer, he said
saying, oh my god,
your song is too long.
I'll cut it to four and a half minutes.
it's already longer.
It's already long.
I didn't understand at that time.
I said you can't cut my baby.
I couldn't accept it.
But now I find that I can't write songs longer than
but now I gradually realize
no more than four minutes.
Unless I really have a lot to put in it,
I will slowly add more to it.
But I found a problem with my songwriting now.
if there's a new flow,
I might finish the outline in one day.
and then within about a week,
I can finish the song.
But some updates are very strange.
I might write one riff after another,
and a melody.
and maybe start,
but I don't know how to finish it.
And I have a bridge that
I've been working on it for two years.
and I still can't finish it.
I still can't finish it.
I don't know if you have experienced this.
Yes, yes, yes.
like this.
I have it too.
When I was named Liu,
My highest record is writing two songs in one night.
But the longest time
it took me five or six years to finish a song.
I wrote half of a song and couldn't continue.
I put it aside for a long time.
I went back to write.
and then finish it.
I feel that
the question you just mentioned about the song's length.
I think it's a trick.
Because now, for example, you see that Cen
there's a song called Doja.
That song is only
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Behold, more forbid my bitch is gay.
It's this song.
It's only over a minute.
You're likely to play it on a loop.
Yes.
You can't get enough of it after listening once.
Yes, listen again.
Yeah.
Just keep looping and looping.
But if a song is four minutes long,
but others may think it's enough to listen to half.
Yes, it's a bit too long.
They have to cut back and listen again.
When I listen to a song, I might do this.
there may be several bars in a song
which I like.
I will listen to them repeatedly.
But if it's too long,
I might cut the song.
So now when I make songs,
it's usually around two and a half minutes.
After you said that,
I really find that I have a producer's mindset.
I listen with a critical
not critically,
but in a learning way.
I'll say okay, the background music uses that sound color,
and this one uses that beat.
and I will analyze it throughout the process.
I rarely have time to relax and listen to music.
Now once I listen,
I really can't do it.
like someone just plays YouTube
and then start working and doing homework.
and play music.
I can't.
If I'm writing something,
if there is music,
I will slowly
my attention will shift to the music.
I start to listen.
I think this tone is quite interesting.
The sound processing is good.
I will be distracted.
So I can't be a regular listener to
this
Will it affect your enjoyment of the music?
You just listen slowly.
No, it doesn't actually.
I really enjoy music.
Sometimes when I let go,
I was on my way here.
I was wearing headphones in the square
I even danced a little.
I just enjoy it.
Because I can't.
I've seen many
such as
movie critics.
they are too strict when watching movies.
They say this is bad and that is bad.
I said just watch the movie.
do you like it or not?
Yes.
sometimes you analyze too much.
I sometimes think that you
you will lose some fun.
you lose the fun.
Sometimes I think the more stupid you are, the better.
You don't understand these things at all.
and just watch the movie stupidly.
and then you really say, oh, I like it, okay.
Yes, yes, don't say more.
I like it, good.
Yes.
Yes, I think happiness is more important than anything.
Well, this is still my ultimate goal.
If you're not happy,
you shouldn't do it.
Of course.
You have to balance.
I agree.
For the current children,
if they want to enter this industry,
what advice would you give them?
Don't do it.
Just kidding, just kidding, just kidding.
I think my opinion is
I can only represent myself.
Of course.
I think don't devote yourself to it at first.
and make sure you have a stable income.
stable income.
which is very important.
It's very important.
Because it is also an investment.
Yes, yes.
You need to have capital.
and strength.
Yes.
to invest.
Uh.
Although I think I despise this view of myself,
but I think top artists
can really make money
maybe only two or three percent
three percent, or at most five percent.
So if you want to be in the five percent,
I think besides hard work,
talent is really important.
You need to have the opportunity to test
to see if you have talent,
and get some feedback,
you will be really good.
Just like the song Sheng Xin.
He may not have many songs before that.
Just like that, a song came out.
The society is different from the past.
Yes.
I think the accumulation of works is also very important.
because you don't know which one will be a hit.
Some bad luck in the first two songs.
Some people may not be lucky until the ninety-ninth song.
Yes, it's all possible.
So,
I think
we should have a long-term perspective.
Yes.
Don't put all your energy into it at once,
otherwise it's easy to be frustrated.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Yes.
I totally agree.
Uh.
My idea is that
I feel like giving any advice.
I think because I've been through the same thing.
and we all do the same.
We all make mistakes and then summarize them ourselves.
No matter what advice our seniors give you,
you still have to step into that pit yourself.
you will understand.
So I'll just say something simple.
Just do it with the greatest joy.
and you can do it.
No matter what we say,
don't do this,
you will still fall into that pit.
I have experienced it myself.
My supervisor
my supervisor said,
don't do this.
I still did it anyway.
I stepped into every pit.
Then I realized that
Don't sign contracts casually.
Don't mess around here.
Don't act in that way.
I've done all of them.
I guess you have made this mistake too.
I think contracts are really important.
If there is another suggestion,
is to read the contract carefully.
It's true.
Read the contract carefully.
Have someone who knows the law take a look.
Yes.
Yes, especially friends who know the law of the music industry.
to take a look.
About the contract,
If you can avoid making this mistake,
don't make this mistake again.
We are all people who have made mistakes.
Yes.
OK.
Well, that's all for today's recording.
I'm really happy that you two can participate.
I hope you two can work together
I'd be thrilled if you two can work together.
I'd be thrilled if you could do a new song.
Thank you all.
Wait a minute, I don't know where they are from yet.
Which one are you?
You are from Shanghai.
Local?
Do you have a house?
Ha ha ha.
That's it.
Bye bye everyone.
Bye bye.