BKP #358 [中] 龙思伊Lily, 心理师的作用

美国国家认证心理师，美国马里兰州注册心理师

龙思伊Lily来聊现在的社会孤独的问题。有兴趣的可以加她微信：dragongal019

我们聊到孤单，还有个样的 Coping Mechanism 可以用来帮助自己。

 

Episode Transcript

(00:07):
大家好 今天来的是Lily
Lily 欢迎上我的电台
今天能来真是我的荣幸，很开心！
我拉你过来其实是因为我最近发现
我很多朋友都是爱说自己比较孤单
比较lonely
嗯 然后我有自己的想法

(00:27):
我觉得有自己的原因
可是我很想拉一个专业人过来
解释一下现在社会
为什么感觉大家都变得更孤单
更孤单了
你有没有一些想法
我觉得 首先
我这两天在读一些书
然后也是因为我很多客户

(00:48):
他会跟我聊到这个话题
嗯 比如情绪的管理啊
比如说
可能自处的时候很难跟自己待着呀
然后觉得自处是一个巨大的困难啊
等等 我其实为什么会去读书去
呃 解决这个问题呢
因为我发现
在昨天开始面对这些问题的时候
我能够共情
但我不能给他们他们想要的答案

(01:10):
嗯 呃
对我来说
呃 从一开始接触这个话题
包括从开始学心理学的时候
呃 孤独感是一个我经常面对的课题
但我和大多数人想法可能不太一样
嗯
因为现在网络上很火的一个概念嘛
i人和e人
哦 呵呵
嗯 我知道很多跟我聊这个话题

(01:30):
就是大家说孤独
他接受不了
他会觉得很难受
嗯 巨大的困境
大多数是是e人
然后 我是个i人
嗯
对于i人来说
孤独是太好的时刻了
对我来说它是我能量存储的时刻
i人他其实不太能够通过跟人对话去获取能

(01:54):
i人需要独处
甚至感受到
呃房间里静的能够掉一根针
这个时候看书
然后自己去思考问题
能够获取能量
所以我去看书
然后就读了一本书
叫那个王尔德的夜莺与玫瑰
然后它里面就讲了一个概念叫
应该是提到了一个呃物体叫火箭

(02:15):
火箭是其中一个
他们 呃
应该是他们在这本书里面
one of the issues they address
嗯 就火箭特别想要多愁善感
想要有情感
嗯 他就在旁边
有有一个其他的
呃主角在劝他说你一定要保持干燥
因为对于火箭来说
你不保持干燥
你就飞不上天了

(02:36):
嗯 你的主要功能就没了
嗯啊 就是
为什么要引入这个故事呢
可能从开始从这个话题切入有点乱
但我的意思是想表达嗯
对于我这样的人来说
孤独它的作用是为了让我汲取能量
充电
对 充电
所以就像是一个电池
我在平常日常中跟人对话
心理医生作为心理师

(02:56):
心理医生跟人对话老在漏电
而我们今天录完Podcast
也是一个我往外释放能量的过程
那我又漏电了
嗯
那回去独处会让我充电
特别舒服
那对于这些e人来说
他会讨厌孤独
嗯 特别难受
其实从这个角度讲
我觉得你已经get我在说什么了
他没有像我前面提到的

(03:18):
火箭也好
或者我本人也好
找到那个孤独的作用
嗯
就像火箭
他非要去展示他多愁善感
他要哭
他不管自己的功效是要飞上天
必须得保持干燥
他就会非常想要去
you know uh go against他的purpose

(03:38):
违背自己的最终的目的 嗯
然后去 呃
一定要做一些他主要的
功能之外的事儿
嗯 我觉得大多数e人
他会如此的愤恨
安静 或者孤独的过程
或者这个独处的状态
所以我觉得我是一个i人

(04:01):
我觉得我是需要自己时间
自己花一点时间单独在家里
不管是做饭啊
听音乐 嗯
我都是需要这个充电的时间
嗯
可是我觉得没有
没有那么清楚的这个i人跟e人 嗯
我个人觉得

(04:22):
一大部分i人是在用这个当借口
为了不想出去社交
因为现在社交我觉得是越来越难
每一个群体都有自己的语言
自己的门槛
导致现在社交变得越来越难
不管是网上

(04:43):
不管是面对面
现在很多人就觉得社交太难了
嗯 那我就不要社交
那我不要社交
是不是就说自己是e人
呃 e人
那我更不需要社交
因为我当这个当借口
嗯 所以我发现
很多人其实越来越不想社交 嗯
可是他们是需要社交的

(05:04):
因为我觉得我们作为人类 嗯
还是social的一个一个生物
我们还是需要有人在身边的 嗯
不能完全孤单 嗯
所以导致这些人可能
需要社交
可是社交变得太难了
嗯 然后就决定

(05:24):
那我不社交
我特别特别赞同你说这个 嗯
然后其实它会让我有好多灵感
在听你说话的时候
那么我解释一下我前面说的话的意思
其实是从两个方面
第一个方面 呃
孤独是有功效的 嗯
但前提是你知道孤独的功效
嗯 就是
this is something you're actively doing

(05:45):
而不是你用这个孤独来回避什么
嗯啊
就比如说我
我说我享受孤独
我其实很开心
是因为孤独在我需要的时候出现
我制造的这个孤独
对 我制造的这个所谓的孤独
我制造的这个所谓的独处时间
是因为我需要充电了
嗯 但是如果想象一下
我现在特别需要跟人去沟通

(06:06):
比如包括现在我们在录podcast
我跟你说我现在其实需要独处一下
哈哈
这个其实是和我现在作为一个呃
Podcast speaker作为一个嘉宾
对 嘉宾
作为一个呃
你邀请过来跟你录Podcast的人
这个功能完全违反了
嗯 那就是我想引入的第二点
呃
在我清楚的知道自己的功能的前提下

(06:29):
我用这个东西来呃
让我享受这一刻的孤独和充电
这个是非常非常好的一个时刻
这个是我在享受它
而不是作为借口
嗯啊
那我刚刚这是我说第一点
刚我要引入第二点
就是我觉得大多数人会觉得非常孤独
是因为孤独出现在了一个错乱的位置
也就是我们人生中经常会意识不到
但是其实它经常出现的一个东西

(06:50):
叫混乱
嗯
chaotic situation
嗯
其实很多心理师
他做的工作的目的就是肃清混乱
我作
我作为一个心理师
很多时候
呃 你给我带过来一个思维的谜团
你给我带了一个大的线条
呃 很混乱的一个毛球

(07:11):
呃比如说我
可能我do
i do呃
you know i love to make sweaters
knitting yeah
knitting i love that yeah i love
to arrange things这个是一个哈哈哈
我奶奶做的一件事
对 CRO
i i think we call it
crochet those days
就是我也做knitting
我也做crochet
我很喜欢去make art with it

(07:31):
就从小 我可能会因为我外婆
我奶奶他们也会做这样的事情
然后对我来说
这就像像是一个心灵的疗愈过程
会让我因为他们都不在世了
那么我每次特别想念他们的时候
我其实会做他们做的事
嗯 包括现在是春天
那很多人会去挖野菜
嗯 可能相对年龄
比如我90后
可能90后做这事的不多

(07:51):
但我会做这个事的原因
是因为对我来说
他是一个
呃情绪的落脚点
会让我觉得我回到了一个安全空间
嗯呃
心理学上一个概念
safe space嗯
这个安全空间就是我去做
给我带来安全感的人会做的事儿
嗯 那我做这些事儿的时候
其实
它就是一个肃清我生活中混乱的过程

(08:12):
很多人带着他的孤独来
是因为他如此愤恨他的孤独
或者说他会觉得现在这个当下
我不想去接受这个孤独
yeah 我不知道该怎么办了
这孤独感让我觉得我接触
接触下来特别难受
是因为这个孤独出现了
嗯
他不许出现在了
他不能接受孤独的时刻和位置

(08:36):
也就是引起了混乱
okay
嗯
这个我理解
然后我也是认可会这么出现的
嗯
有办法让这些人比较不孤独吗
我觉得很多方面
其实这个是我跟Leon也聊过这件事
我觉得这些人是因为没有创

(08:57):
造一个环境
让自己能不孤独
嗯可是他们就是没有学过怎么做
或是不知道需要这件事
导致他们突然孤独的时候
没有一个环境包容他们吧
只能这么说
嗯我

(09:18):
我我认为可能是嗯
你的周围的环境也好
或者说你给自己创造这个环境也好
相对来说更能够允许你去
呃自由的发展
做自己 但大多数情况下
我们不能把它怪在环境上
归心理学上有一个东西叫attribution system
嗯 有的时候attribution

(09:38):
attribution system就是归因系统
那有的时候我们可以向外归因
我们可以去要求一个环境
要求但大多数情况下
我们其实是要求不来这个环境的
嗯
这个环境其实是就像一个then
嗯禅意
它是你心中自带的
嗯

(09:58):
那我我给你说一下我的想法
我的theory其实也是自创的
嗯最近自己在摸索
然后自己想出来的
嗯我觉得
每一个人都是有一个社交
或是情感邮箱
嗯就是你需要两个到三个好朋友

(10:20):
嗯才能把这个情感邮箱充满
嗯可能你只需要一个
有一些人需要两个
有一些人需要三个
反正大家的邮箱的大小是不一样的
嗯
大部分人是不知道
这个邮箱什么时候快
往一走了
就可能少了一个朋友
一个好朋友从5个到4个

(10:41):
也没有怎么样
还是百百分之八十
5个到3个也还好
我至少还有3个朋友
是能让我不孤独的
可是到两个的时候怎么办
到一个的时候怎么办
就已经太太太
close to empty
嗯
这个时候
他们 才意识到我有一点孤独了

(11:02):
那个时候已经太晚了
因为你把要把这个邮箱充满
是需要很长的时间
嗯 你需要筛选到很多很多朋友
他们才能变成你身边的close FRIENDS
嗯 那个时候已经太晚了
然后他意识到
我这个情感邮箱快光了

(11:23):
他们就会感觉我很lonely
我不知道怎么办
然后就开始乱
所以
我觉得最好的方式就是一直出去social
一直在筛选
一直有新的朋友进来
然后慢慢
慢慢你就可以有更多朋友
有的时候你有这3个朋友就够了

(11:44):
嗯
可是如果一个出国
一个找了别的工作
你还有一些
说实话 backup
嗯 可以充满这个邮箱
嗯 就你从来不会到只剩一个朋友了
嗯
i love this concept
嗯
我觉得你你这自创的观点也好

(12:04):
或者你可能想了一段时间
你的大概这个邮箱存储
包括我听下来
你可能是一个很善于去结交朋友
然后去管理你的友情圈的人
呃 这观点我听起来我其实挺赞同的
但是有一个问题
这个如果通过我这样的
因为我是个Nerd
i shared with you before
i'm quite Nerdy love studying psychology呃

(12:26):
然后也很喜欢读书
那么
从我作为一个心理师的角度观察
这个事儿
其实你的归因系统是
你还在向外归因
就是你的快乐来自于
呃
你的油箱
或者是需要
就像打个比方
如果你是一辆车
呃 i'm also a petrolhead
i love driving啊
那可能这个油它是一定要从外界来

(12:48):
没错 加满
但是如果我是一个
车我把我自己想象成一个车
我是混合动力
嗯我一定是自己可以创造一些
我可能需要偶尔加个油
嗯但是我很多时候是电车
对就是我是混合的
呃我自己可以开着在路上走啊

(13:09):
我一直充了电
包括我自己可以给我自己制造电
可以往下开
偶尔需要外界给我加个油
因为这时候我需要一些新鲜感
嗯但是多数情况下我是自给自足的
很多人他的孤独其实就是来自于你说
这个油他自身加不了
对
所以他的朋友一旦比如说搬家了
或者是他的朋友去了什么什么样的

(13:31):
呃另外的朋友
那或者离开他这个所谓的安全空间
没错
他就没有其他东西可以自给自足了
对
呃所谓的孤独感其实就是第一
我给我自己提供不了太多情绪价值
在这一刻
嗯或者是我其实给我自己充不了电
加不了油
可是你虽然是混合的

(13:54):
你也是需要这个
外界就是大家都需要的
我觉得人类都需要这个一点点社交
你不管多与少
大家需要一点
嗯因为我们不可能一个人住在山里
谁谁都不care的
嗯这是we're social animals
对
我们是social animals
我们是必须要有一点点社交

(14:14):
嗯
然后我觉得很多人到0的时候这个
嗯这个情感邮箱到0的时候
嗯不知道怎么充满了
他已经忘了怎么社交怎么跟朋友聊天
他们就已经离开社交圈太久了
导致他们充不满他们已经过时了

(14:37):
好喜欢这个话题
其实这个话题就是我一直想呃每次
我想到孤独感的时候
我都想到这个话题
其实说直白一点
首先 如果你会给你自己充油
你会给你自己充电
你就知道怎么给别人充电
不太可能
你会没有朋友
为什么 因为你和朋友之间
永远都是一个能量置换的过程

(14:58):
OK
那么你其实不需要不停的感到不安全
因为你随时随地
如果你是一个善于给自己加油
善于给自己充电的人
你永远都可能交到新朋友
嗯 你随时去一个social场合
你都可以交到新朋友
没有那么难
再次 我觉得这是个需求感的问题
嗯
如果你本身是一个匮乏感比较重的人

(15:21):
你都依靠加油才能往前走
那你对朋友的需求感是100%
嗯
那如果比如说
相对来说
你自身的电量和油量
嗯 一般是百分之五六十的状态
你可能见了一个朋友
见两个朋友
你就瞬间加到100了
对
没错 这个时候
你对朋友的需求感也没那么高
嗯哼
你也不会经常觉得不安全

(15:43):
呃 再次
你可能也知道
怎么去跟你朋友进行能量置换
这个过程不会那么艰难
呃
说直白一点
孤独感是缺乏情绪价值
缺乏情绪价值
有的时候需要非常需要外界给
我们需要跟对方社交的
缺乏情绪价值
有时候需要自己给
自己给 对

(16:04):
但是他绝不是一个0或100
他绝不是一个今天我跟别人社交
我就加到100
嗯 明天我回来我自己待着
我突然就是0
对 他永远都是一个Dynamic的过程
嗯 it's always Dynamic
对 就有可能我今天是缺10或缺20
因为 我是80
明天我可能缺了五六十

(16:25):
嗯
没 没事儿
我会有办法去面对它
为什么
这个其实是我经常跟我客户聊的话题
叫coping strategy
嗯
建立一个coping mechanism
呃
自持 或者说自我管理的机制
OK 嗯
怎么做呢
呃 首先
我要先会识别

(16:48):
我要先知道
比如说 我作为一辆车也好
或者我作为一个人也好
嗯 我漏电了
我缺电了
我缺油了
我当下
我有什么样的一个躯体反应或状态
因为等你意识到了
你这个人的所有油耗尽了
已经太晚了
yeah exactly
太晚了
这个其实是大多数人他很混乱

(17:08):
混乱了很长时间之后才来找心理师
对的 看病的一个状态
这个时候
it's really too late
嗯
呃 那么
如果你呃
在出现这个情况的呃
你耗尽之前
可能那半个月或那一个月
你就已经开始意识到
一些不好的状态了
这个是你周围的朋友

(17:29):
或者你自己
经常做一些自我观察
嗯 他的好处
对 包括你和你朋友之间
比如说这个朋友
他如果真的是你的很好的朋友
我相信其实在他
你不用等到他搬家你才得知
多数情况下
在他要走的
或者要离开你这个安全空间之前
一个月你就知道了

(17:49):
对 这个情况下
你就已经开始去找寻新的友情
或者建立其他的
有意义和有意思的关系了
嗯 啊
你已经在做呃
储电的这个过程哦
其次 朋友不应该是你唯一的
呃
你的舒适圈
包括你去识别啊
我缺电了

(18:09):
我现在连个人都没有
我好孤独
其实在你感知到
自己有点孤独的时候
这个当下你就可以在家里做好多事
嗯嗯这就是那个coping strategy的
sorry这就是那个coping strategy的功效
我觉得现在很多人嗯
就对自己的情感都不熟悉
嗯就自己不开心的时候

(18:31):
嗯也不知道为什么不开心
嗯也不知道怎么发生的
就突然不开心了
嗯然后也没有感受到
那我不开心的时候他们干嘛
玩手机玩一些
就是可以贴一个创口贴
贴一个band aid在上面
可是嗯具体为什么不开心他们不了解
嗯嗯

(18:53):
我有一个朋友
他是打柔术的嗯然后他不开心的时候
他就去柔术馆
嗯他也不知道为什么他去柔术馆
他就觉得
哦柔术馆是我的开心的一个地方
我就跑去这边
然后发泄一下
我平时就好了
可是具体你为什么不开心
这个还是存在的
嗯就这个东西在你的life里面一直在

(19:14):
你只是去了一下柔术馆
解压一下
可是嗯这个problem
这坨屎还是在你的life里面
嗯然后他不知道这个这坨屎是什么
或是这个problem在哪儿
嗯所以他就一直去一直去一直去
或者有一些人更夸张
就一直打游戏
嗯就是一直在那边玩玩手机
嗯刷一个多多巴胺
可是你也不知道为什么

(19:36):
你这个你的life突然让你不开心
嗯情绪管理机制有三种
嗯你讲的这个话题其实非常非常准确
嗯我都觉得
你是不是就是一个
平常非常喜欢学心理学的
或者是完全没有
很多这个呃self-exploration就很我
只是看一些朋友会这样
然后我就好奇他们为什么一直来

(19:58):
最近一直来是什么情况
然后他可能 哦
就是在家里不开心
嗯 那就哦
太好了 那说明你很善于观察人
这个
其实是我们心理学上讲的一个概念
coping 就是我刚刚提到这个管理机制
coping mechanism
情绪管理机制有三种
那么第一种就是你所说的这个
我做好多事情来
呃 分散注意力

(20:18):
嗯 对
first type of coping distraction
嗯 呃
distraction就是比如说我举个例子
女生很喜欢去做的一些事儿
呃 买东西
弄头发 shopping
哈哈哈 呃
you know do our hair
嗯 or
uh
i don't know like manicure pedicure
uh 做指甲
yeah 这其实都是distraction
包括我 可能有的时候我会去啊

(20:39):
非常感觉到
可能做了一天的咨询
非常漏电的情况下
我会去看
刷一两集美剧
嗯 最近有一个很好看的美剧
叫做DAYS of Jack O'lantern
DAYS of Jack O'lantern
啊哈哈哈
就是豺狼的日子
我会去刷
刷完之后
其实它没帮助
嗯 因为它只是distraction
对 它只能
可能在这一刻让人感觉到舒缓
但是你 呃

(21:00):
分散注意力好多次以后
你会发现它没用了
对
所有的distraction
到最后都会让人觉得没用
那么到第二个阶段
也就是所谓的emotion focused coping 嗯
第二种coping
就是针对情绪
这个 呃
具体的 你感知到的情绪去做的管理
呃 也就是我的很多客户

(21:21):
很多病人
会来找我做emotion focused coping
嗯 或者therapy的原因
就他跟我
说莉莉 我真的特别难受
我这个情绪又发作了
你教教我
或者你跟我聊一下天
然后
他在咨询的这一个多小时的过程中
跟我做的事儿就是发泄情绪
嗯 这个情况下
其实就是纯粹的emotion focused coping

(21:42):
然后聊
比如包括我们现在在我们在录podcast
我们在聊孤独这个话题
这个话题本身
其实包括这podcast的本身
以及我们这个对话本身
它就属于emotion focused coping
嗯 针对这个情绪在做的管理
呃 包括我们聊完孤独
可能我们两个人都会觉得 啊

(22:03):
我们这个共鸣
包括我们这个对话本身
就让我们不那么孤独
包括可能我们会有一些给对方一些
啊 you get me
i get you对的啊
有这种共情的过程
会觉得we both feel less lonely
因为我们get to each other
这个其实也是属于一个emotion focused coping
那任何conversation
任何对话本身都是有疗愈作用的
嗯 一定会有

(22:23):
都是therapeutic的
那这是第二种
但是第二种
still not good enough okay
这就是为什么你会说
你说the shit is still there yeah
呃 因为still not good enough
对 也就是第三种
口评 也是最深层次的口评
也就是心理师在咨询的时候
会做的事儿
呃 很多客户
他跟我聊了几次

(22:44):
或者来找我做了很多次咨询以后
我逐渐的给他进行了一个skill transference
嗯 就是传达给他
或者说分享给他的一个能力
嗯
让他以后可能不需要来找我做咨询了
他自己也
会可以进行一些自我疗愈的能力
也就是solution focused coping
嗯 针对问题所做的自我调节

(23:06):
你会觉得孤独
下一次 你觉得孤独
或者任何其他的负面情绪
你觉得是负面的情绪
呃 比如
孤独对我来说
它就不是负面情绪
对我会 对
我不再赘述
因为我觉得you get me instantly
但是对于很多人来说
孤独这种负面情绪出现的时候
下一次
你可以问你自己的一个问题是
what is the function

(23:26):
it's serving me
嗯
它在提醒我
我需要去解决什么样的
实际生活中的问题
比如 我是该交一个新朋友吗
因为我的朋友要搬家了
所以我现在突然觉得我失去这个人了
我觉得孤独
比如 我是呃
在提醒我啊
我现在这段感情关系
我的这个boyfriend or this girlfriend of mine

(23:48):
他其实不能给我带来一个companionship
起不到陪伴的作用
那这个孤独感
长期的孤独感
在这段关系里
可能是在提醒我
我是不是该开始一段新的
更加有意义的关系
或找一个更好的伴侣
那也许有的人
他是因为uh homesick
oh yeah uh
比如说 可能有很多expect是我的客户

(24:10):
嗯呃
他可能长期远离
他之前grew up的那个culture
他长期生活那个文化
呃 状态
可能这个
比如 一到节假日
一到了这个圣诞节
我有很多客户
他是Asian American
呃或者他是呃呃
Caucasian from Europe
他可能在中国生活久了
他会觉得i like China嗯

(24:31):
但是right now
i feel homesick
对的 那
这个孤独
那很很明确啊
给你带来的这个提醒是什么
你该回家了
嗯 你该去回去看一眼你的家人了
会让你觉得感到疗愈
对 这个问题解决了之后
你就不需要用那么多的别的coping
分散注意力的方式了
因为那个shit it's actually being managed yeah

(24:54):
taken care of
being managed yeah
that shit is is probably not there or diminished
hmm
我可以理解
我很好奇
有多少心理学医生
会真的做这最后一节
因为我是比较悲观
对 特别是对现在的美国医疗

(25:16):
嗯 你就会发现很多他们不take care of
真的问题
他们就是一直要你来吃药
嗯
然后我觉得心理学应该也有这个环境
就是他们一直给你therapy
可是从来不解决问题的
嗯 就一直跟你talk
talk talk

(25:38):
可是你的存在的一些问题一直都还在
嗯 我觉得mental health也可以
physical health也可以
都有这种风险
就是你的医生就是只是要你一直来
然后一直给钱
一直付钱
让这个环境能赚钱

(25:58):
可是他们不解决一些深层的问题
嗯 明白
我觉得这个问题其实特别
特别的达到很多客户的需求和担忧
嗯 啊
我很想跟你探讨这个话题
其实 呃
我觉得这里面可能是第一个 呃
对于好的心理师

(26:19):
有一些客户也有这样的误解啊
我也 即使是我
作为一个相对负责的
而且我的 呃
这个心理临床的
其实就是this is like the cornerstone of my practice
it's humanistic
就是我是人本主义者
人本主义
者 任何时候不能违背的
就是我永远给你你需要的

(26:41):
yeah 嗯
那即便如此
我的一些客户可能在咨询的过程中
他在一两年
依然没有达到他想要那个目标的时候
他会怀疑我说
你是不是就想要keep me on the payroll
yeah
嗯 就是我对于你来说是一个饭票
那我要一直来
那其实 呃
首先 呃
针对这个
我一直都跟我的客户讲
你不用担心

(27:01):
因为我不是那么的缺客户
嗯 就是你找一个心理师
你要先看这个人他的有效性
嗯 他让你觉得你每一次来都只是
你并没有一些提升
然后你又觉得这个这个
心理师也好
心理医生也好
他需要你
需要他远远低于他需要你

(27:24):
因为他需要你的钱
但是你并不那么需要他给你的东西
这个时候
其实是一个红色警戒的时刻
不对的
it's a red alert对
you should pause or stop
嗯 嗯
因为对好的心理师来说
我们的功效是
r AM the aim of our whole practice is to lose job

(27:46):
什么意思
就是我不永远不缺客户的话
那么我面前这个客户
他对我来说最
我和他之间达成的共识是
我希望你尽快好
然后你可以出去帮我口口相传
我的目标是失去你面前这个客户
得到下一个客户
然后你过上你渴望过的生活
嗯 我的功效就只有

(28:07):
让你过上你想过的生活
然后尽快的
这个是我一直都在
跟我身边运动教练的一个对话
就是我觉得现在我看到很多健身房
那些私教
的教练
嗯他们就是不要失去他们的客户
嗯可是我一直觉得
一个好的教练

(28:27):
嗯就是把你的问题解决掉
然后next
是的你就不需要我我教你一些东西
然后你就不需要我
嗯你自己能跑了
可是太多教练
嗯会就说我就只教你那么一点点
或是你让你一直依赖我
导致你就一直每个每个礼拜都回来

(28:47):
每个礼拜都回来
嗯
这种是假依恋不是真依恋
真依恋是
我永远都有新东西可以跟你share
可以跟你分享你自己就会来
对的我不需要通过控制你
或者withdraw information
嗯就是把一些信息给hold住
不告诉你
对这是假依恋
因为你也早晚会受不了你会走
真依恋

(29:08):
真的健康依恋关系是我什么都告诉你
我根本不在乎
你知道所有
我甚至我可能跟我的客户会直接说
我怎么做这个事的我全部share给你
但是客户依然会回来的原因是
因为他真的做不到
嗯这是刚我想讲的第二个事
就是对于我这样的心理师来说
有时候我依然会得到一些质疑
啊你怎我怎么跟了你一两年了

(29:29):
我还是没有足够的进步
这个没有足够进步的原因
其实他更多时候不能是因为
不是因为
真的负责的心理师不跟你分享信息
而是我前面提到的
那个王尔德的那个书
里面讲阴影与玫瑰的故事
那个火箭他一定要不保持干燥
他一定要多愁善感他一定要哭
旁边那个他的那个伙伴

(29:50):
就像我作为心理师的角色
在不停的所谓的
规劝火箭
包括跟火箭去描述
可是如果你一旦哭了
你就不能飞上天了
嗯 你一旦哭了
你就不能保持干燥了
你的最重要的功能就会失去
但是火箭
他不依不饶
他就要哭
我讲这个故事的原因
就是因为我的很多客户
他非常渴望我提

(30:12):
我只提供陪伴和情绪价值
他不要我去提供给他第三种解决问题
如果你来找我
你肯定是要第三种
真的解决问题
然后move on离开
然后可以过到你想过的生活
但大多数客户
他讨厌我提供那个
就像一个whiplash
嗯 鞭子在后面
鞭打他 去鞭策他

(30:34):
让他过上他想过的生活
嗯
这个其实是心理学上的一个概念模型
叫做the change model
就是客户的转变意愿
你可能比如说你来找我
我迅速的给你做一个呃
所谓的评估
在第一次跟你对话的时候就知道啊
这是一个
已经有很强烈的转变意愿的人

(30:55):
他是真的想要知道解决问题的方式
对
然后我可能通过两三次咨询或对话
你就开始转变了
但是大多数人
他在那个转变
the change model
在那个转变意愿上
他是第一个阶段
就是他首先不知道自己的困境在哪
其次 你如果在这个时候告诉他
你是可以转变的
甚至是我都已经看到了

(31:15):
在多少次咨询
或者是多少小时对话之后
也许你能够开启新的生活
他的感受是恐惧
因为从格式塔心理学角度来说
这就像一个人
他已经习惯了长期的
一种不健康的生活模式
或者是长期
一种不健康的依恋关系
让他觉得完整

(31:35):
这时候你告诉他
其实你舍弃这个也可以完整
嗯 他的感受不是欣喜若狂
他还在那个改变模型的第一阶段
他的感受是恐惧
甚至觉得你是他的阻力
因为你要让他舍弃掉
他一直熟悉的那个安全空间
可是大家都会恐惧那么一点吧
这个这个
你怎么想也会恐惧

(31:55):
不管是开始一个新的一份工作
也会恐惧啊
新的恋爱就什么东西新的
大家都会恐惧那么一点
问题是在于他们能不能move on
大家都有恐惧
但是不是一点
你的恐惧
可能和我的恐惧相对来说是一点

(32:17):
呃首先可能我们年龄也比较成熟
呃在这个呃
我面对我的很多客户的时候
他们是00后或是95后
比我小几岁
在呃
相对心智稳定和成熟的情绪稳定的人
他们会很坦然的
比如像我们俩
现在这个对话的基础就是
我们都很坦然的接受情绪

(32:37):
包括我们两个会说可能会恐惧一点
但是大多数人他不是恐惧一点
on a scale one to ten在1-10的数轴上
他的恐惧值可能是8或9
你提到新事物的时候
你的恐惧值是多少 阿sir
要看 要看我熟不熟悉这个领域
嗯 比如说
我从广告行搬到另外一个广告公司

(32:59):
no problem那有那么一点
我担心我这边可能不get
跟老板不get along
或是跟同事不get along
就会那么一点
1-10的话 你会给他多少你的意见
1-21-2 对
好多的话也有
比如说我开
始一个新的运动
我不熟悉这个运动
那可能四五
因为我担心我
我受伤

(33:19):
我不知道这个运动的的风险在哪
那我会可能就更多一点
就看你对这个领域的熟悉度吧
嗯
我觉得你一下就点到了问题的实质
因为你的状态
包括你对情绪的识别
是你不混乱
嗯
对于很多人来说
没有这个1-10的概念

(33:41):
对进步的过程
this progress towards ten
它真的就是我现在有一点恐惧
我觉得就是9
对 我现在没有任何感觉
我就是0或1
只有这个啊
那么大多数人在面对新事物的时候
他们的有一点恐惧
或者他们觉得我现在害怕了
他瞬间就升到了9
嗯
呃 我的一些带着创伤来找我的客户

(34:03):
包括很恐惧负面情绪的客户
他会在第一次咨询和第二次咨询之后
他消失一段时间再回来
因为那个巨大的恐惧
呃在吞噬他
我让他直面了这个东西
yeah 他需要消化
是的
我可以get到
特别是年轻的人
他们可能这个feeling还不足够嘛

(34:25):
他们新的一些体验
还不足够让他们get到
哦 这个
这个太危险
或是没有那么危险
嗯 所以他们这个
这个度还没有把控好
这个我understand
嗯 嗯
可是年轻人真的需要吗 就
我可能老了

(34:46):
我小的时候从来没有想过
我20岁 我需要找一个心理学医生
嗯 我从来就觉得
这个是一个在我身边需要的一个东西
就我不开心啊
可能去 就像前面说的
游个泳 或是跟朋友吃个饭
或是待在家写一下日记

(35:07):
嗯 呃
我就好了
我感觉有的时候自己都能解决
嗯 所以在二十几岁
我其实觉得自己是一个很无敌
很不需要这些人
这不需要这些服务的人
嗯 可是现在感觉越这个年龄

(35:28):
去看心理学的年龄越来越小
嗯 是
这世界上发生了什么
他们是需要这个东西
呃
这个问题真的是
this is such a question嗯
呃
其实这也是我一些客户问我的问题
为什么 我
包括有一些妈妈 嗯
她会带着自己的孩子
可能八九岁就来找我了
吼吼

(35:48):
嗯 真的
这是个好事
首先 她不会让我失业
i would lose i would never lose my meal ticket or my job right
that's a good thing
但是 呃
从那个角度来讲
其实是因为我们现在社会
人们对自己的需求越来越清晰了
呃 在我觉得在我小时候
十几岁 20岁的时候
因为我是90后
那那个时候我也是混乱的
包括我可能也是一个big Ego person in the past

(36:11):
嗯 那我会觉得好多事情
尤其在20岁的时候
1920 我会觉得我无往不胜
呃 无所不能
那么我现在可能做一下这个所谓的
我前面讲了三种coping
第一种 呃
分散注意力distraction
coping就够用了
嗯 但是现在的小朋友
他不太一样的原因是
第一 现在这个社会的资源足够丰富

(36:32):
我有这个服务
在很多小孩
他的感受就是
我用一下
何乐而不为
我体验一下
只当体验了
嗯 第二个原因是
我觉得很多情况下
现在小朋友
他们的生存危机比我们 呃
你是80后
我是90后
比我们那个时候要大得多
嗯 他会担心自己输在起跑线上

(36:52):
他会希望在我出现生存危机
或者这个问题
如果我呃不需要拖延
我就可以解决
那我就找一个专业人士把它解决了
嗯我在现在这个当下就铺好路
嗯 带着这个技能往前走
我不确定这是好事 哎

(37:13):
我现在在想
嗯
那我也问你
我觉得
现在随时都有一个心理学医生
on call 嗯
是好事吗
就有的时候
你就需要自己一个人消化一些问题

(37:34):
就你没有这个医生
我觉得从某个角度是更好的
嗯 更有时间跟自己相处
说哎
what's the problem
我是不是需要花一点时间分析一下
我就有这个分析能力
嗯而不是
我一有不开心就去找心理学医生

(37:55):
这个是我觉得这个好像嗯
不是一件好事
你的
呃
答案就在你的问题里
我重复一下你刚刚说的
i wanna Echo it back to you
你刚刚说
你说呃
我有这个能力自处
我有这个能力去消化这个事儿
我想先消化一下再找
嗯 这个其实是非常好的

(38:16):
我特别渴望我的客户可以这样
我并不希望他们跟我是病态依恋
对 就是我一有事儿就给莉莉发信息
我有这样的clients
一定有呃
他会觉得我这会儿有一点点不开心
我就要信息轰炸你
我不管你有没有在看别的客户
我现在就要给你打电话
嗯 这个情况下其实是病态依恋呀

(38:36):
包括我们对恋人
我们也不应该这样做
我们对家里人也不
应该这样做
我们应该先脱绝自己
但是有很多人回到你前面讲的那个话
你说你会觉得有一个自处的空间
确定不能解决了
再去找专业人士更好
这其实是我的服务理念
嗯 我接触的很多小朋友

(38:56):
如果他这个问题
他是我观察到了
呃 在当下
这个问题
并没有影响到他的daily functioning
嗯 没有影响到
第一 他的社会化
第二 他的日常的行为
我会不希望在这个当下去干预
yeah
我会说 i feel like you still got some wiggle room hmm
and you can explore it by yourself啊

(39:18):
就比如说
我也有客户
他申请美国名校
他没有任何
呃 做过任何个人准备
他会说 哎
Lily 我今天要去面试NYU的教授
嗯 我希望你可以告诉我
这个问题怎么回答
我会先问
but what do you think
对啊
这东西你有没有自己的想法先
嗯 呃
所以我会在这个时刻做一个uh reflection

(39:39):
做一个反转
帮我让他呃
学会自查
因为我前面和你提到
作为人本主义者
我的最终目的是lose this job
对的 让你呃
锻炼 让你学会这个技能
然后最终你去过你想过的生活
我从一开始就不会培养这个病态依恋
对 这是我这样心理师工作的主旨

(40:00):
呃 以及服务的呃
宗旨 嗯 对
但是
嗯 大多数人
他一旦有了这个服务
他会想要做很多很多事情
来回避那个自我探索的过程
嗯
那这就是你找好的心理师
和不专业人士的区别

(40:20):
嗯 我对这个自我探索
其实我 有两个想法嗯
因为我觉得
这个是特别重要的一个东西
嗯然后现在越来越少
嗯
一我觉得是因为互联网
嗯互联网是一个很大的一个问题
对我来说
现在的人已经不会自己分析了

(40:43):
自我分析了
嗯因为我打开抖音
他就跟我说他知道你喜欢什么
我不需要问自己我喜欢什么
抖抖音知道我今天要买什么
淘宝知道
我就根本就不需要
淘宝会推荐给我我要买什么
所以就没有这个过程
说我到底需不需要这个东西
我我到底喜不喜欢这个东西

(41:03):
哦我喜不喜欢这个人
我不喜欢的话我刷一个社交呃
软件APP哎我有一大堆我可以喜欢的
嗯但这些人就突然不知道
我到底喜欢什么
嗯信息太多
嗯机会太多
就自己就不知道到底喜欢什么
因为嗯

(41:23):
没有这个这个环境让你静下来说
我到底是谁
我到底喜欢什么
我到底要什么
嗯
就这些APP都已经把这种自我了解嗯
外包掉了
嗯是的
所以
回到我们最初聊孤独这个话题的时候
我说过我说我需要孤独

(41:45):
嗯我需要being by myself yeah
因为这样的一个孤独
其实对我来说
是了解我自己是谁的过程和空间
我需要这样一个空间
大多数人他一定他的
你前面提到这个
比如说可能搜up
包括很多分散注意力
包括一定要去通过别人的嘴
或者外部世界给自己充电

(42:07):
等等这些他都属于一个概念
叫填满
呃我喜欢的状态叫留白
嗯留白就是享受孤独我
希望留白
留白才能让我知道需要什么
比如我举个例子
在你最孤独的时候
你想谁 嗯
说明你真的喜欢这个人
或者渴望跟这个人相处

(42:29):
你只有通过孤独才能意识到
oh this person is actually constantly on my mind
对的 但如果在你孤独的时候
你想不到这个人
说明其实你不是那么的需要他
但如果你永远处在一个填满的状态里
你是没有这样的一个机会来意识到
我对的
呃 需要哪个人
或哪个人对我来说珍贵

(42:49):
或者哪个食物我很渴望
就包括
我平常可能会故意做一些刻意的fasting
oh me too
我每周可能会有那么一天时间
是故意不怎么吃东西 然后
呃
practice mindfulness 对
练习正念
因为这个时候我脑子里出现那个食物
我知道那是我最想吃的
嗯

(43:09):
平时吃什么
可以问吗
我其实觉得自己最饿最饿的时候
是想我妈妈做的做的饭啊
然后我就发现她做的有一个面
她特别喜欢做一个蒸面
那真的好好吃
那其实
我其实是在外面点不到这样的外卖的
那平常如果是我自己做饭的时候
我会去做鱼
呃 做大鱼大肉
嗯 做salad

(43:30):
但是在我真正饿的时候
我是想不到这些食物的
嗯 呃
一样的 如果我没有留白
我是想不到 哦
原来我很喜欢这个人
呃 在我真的留白的时候
我才意识到
哦 原来i miss the sky
对 嗯 嗯
我完全理解
所以其实我说一个大言不惭的话
从我十五六岁开始有自我意识到现在

(43:50):
我是不用任
何 我甚至会刻意让自己吃苦
yeah 我非常喜欢吃苦 嗯
因为我不用任何呃
分散注意力的方式
distraction 包括那些社交软件
Tinder 啊
或者是 呃
好像有一个叫我的
很多客户跟我说叫Bubble
对吧 包括很多那些软件

(44:10):
我不用 我不需要
我从不去
呃 go on days like that
的原因是
我希望自己一直处于一个相对苦
或者说甚至相对
呃
Lonely的状态 嗯
相对孤独的状态
因为
我随时都要对我自己需求保持认知
嗯
我希望我的大脑清醒

(44:31):
我不希望一些cheap thrill
嗯 嗯
呃 廉价的快乐填满我
因为这样的情况下
我不知道自己需要什么
对 我希望随时随地在闹市里
过着苦行僧的生活
包括我希望自己呆着看书
甚至可能有的时候
会非常因为思念一个人而哭
这个情况下
我就知道 啊

(44:51):
this is exactly what i want
嗯
嗯 啊
比如你问我
什么样的词汇来形容我自己
或者什么样的食物
我最喜欢吃
什么水果
我最喜欢
我很清楚自己最重要的人的需求
因为我随时在观察我自己
对
我不要别的声音来分散我的注意力
所以经常
我觉得大家
你看 大家在地铁上
在走路 一直在看手机 嗯

(45:13):
就少了这个
有一些人可以说就是无聊的时间
嗯 就你自己发呆的时间
嗯
都被手机吃掉了
都被这些互联网吃掉
你就没有这个时间花在自己身上
是的
就我 对我来说
这个是很危险的

(45:34):
这个是对社会很不负责任的
因为这些人
全部都是就失去了自己
是谁都不知道
最重要的一个question
我加一句话
其实我觉得对社会负责
这个话题太大了
他的利益太高
对自己负责
因为很多时候不填满这些空间

(45:55):
不填满 给自己留一定的白
我不是在说你要像我一样
过着苦行僧的生活
因为我的职业是心理师
我要保持高度敏感
那么一旦填满了
我会感觉到自己有点麻木
我不要一丝麻木
因为我要对周围的人的情绪包
对自己保持高度敏感
那么我才会过着苦行僧的生活
你不必像我这样
但是你要给自己留白的原因是

(46:17):
这种自律也好
这种允许留白
你才能够有很多真实的感受
不那么麻木
是对自己负责
嗯
呃这是一种自私
嗯
对自己负责其实是种自私
是的
因为我不允许别人轻易地影响我
我不允许这些分散注意力的东西

(46:37):
轻易地填满我
或吞噬我
嗯哼
我知道我要做的这个选择
不是APP给我的推荐
不是这个人可以影响到我的
我要做active choices by myself
嗯哼
我也不是说自己是完美的
我也打游戏
我也有的时候刷小红书

(46:57):
这些东西我都有在玩嗯
可是我也理解
意识到这个是在distraction
嗯这个是我在完全就是浪费时间
刷豆瓣and whatever
就是我理解这些东西是我在
我也有在玩的
嗯可是我尽量嗯
弄得少一点
多花时间在写日记画画

(47:20):
嗯自己一个人的时候多听音乐嗯
更就感觉更有价值吧
嗯就有的时候你看刷一个小
红书突然两个小时没了
嗯 what happened
突然
刚才你知道刚下班就已经要吃饭了
就感觉这个时间突然就不见了

(47:42):
嗯 我们大脑
其实有时候
需要去做一些有意思的事儿
说 呃
比如说 像这个 呃
今天是我的fasting day
就比如 像今天是我的fasting day
因为我早上喝了咖啡
喝了三杯咖啡
到
可能我到了晚上才能会想吃一个salad
或者做一个Veggie Smoothie
为什么我今天要做这样的事儿呢

(48:03):
因为我昨天就做了很多
填满我的空虚的事情
我吃了很多junk food
and then i went to work out啊 好
我提到这个的原因就是
我有的时候
也会做一些很有意思的事儿
刷小红书
嗯 玩游戏
嗯 i'm like i love Games
i'm a huge Gamer trust me
但是 呃
我做这个事的时候是我active choice

(48:24):
对的 我主观选择选择的
因为我这段时间我觉得无聊
包括我可能做了一些
呃
很累的工作
heavy tasks嗯
比如说
可能我前一天刚看了病人加做了咨询
10个小时
第二天我需要做一些无聊的事情
那这个时候可能会玩游戏
嗯 呃

(48:45):
work out or get to talk with people on
meaning meaningless but interesting topics啊
这个时候我做的事其实就是为了填满
但是我再往后一天
我就会再有一些compensation
就是我今天我做的时候
可能就有意义的了
嗯 有意思的事情是
如果是你的主观选择

(49:07):
你会舒服很多
嗯 那个 呃
被动选择
做了两三个小时 有
意思的事儿
后面觉得我好烦躁
其实是因为
第一 你被动选择了他
嗯第二
你的这个当下烦躁的情绪
来自于you feel guilty
对的 因为你被up填满
而不是你主观选择
我接下来要玩儿这个时间

(49:27):
给自己创造点儿多巴胺
这个就是所谓的被动多巴胺
嗯 我也有
我一定有的
因为我有的时候那个游戏真的太
就太上瘾了
嗯然后有的时候就啊 那就
嗯
夸张的时候真的很上瘾
一个游戏
早上一的一起来 嗯
刷一下玩一下

(49:48):
嗯然后就想
why did i do that
被动多巴胺填满你之后
第二天你需要进行一些禁欲行为
嗯啊
就像我说我昨天吃了很多垃圾食品
我今天如果继续吃
其实我会变胖
或者说我会觉得非常的不舒服
那么我今天从早到晚就要做一件事
就是禁欲
嗯 口欲
呃 口语满足的太多了

(50:09):
就像多巴胺满足你的大脑太多了 yeah
你会反而在之后非常孤独
嗯 也就是像呃一种戒断过程
你的你上瘾的那个东西
无论是电子产品
或者说电子social media
呃 社交平台
或者是食物
或者是呃某种介质

(50:34):
比如说烟啊
酒啊 你可以去主观上享用它
今天你就是要喝醉
今天你就是要抽烟
但你之后一定要有一些自律行为
来享受和呃反馈给你的大脑啊
现在我不是那么的需要他
我可以主动阶段
因为你在被动阶段的时候

(50:54):
你就会觉得非常的孤独
非常难受
难以抑制的想要再去往向外抓
向外求
因为我
最近在啊泰拳馆
我跟一个朋友在聊天
然后他就说
其实我没有那么需要一个女朋友嗯
我说啊为什么
他说我每天打游戏多开心啊嗯

(51:14):
我说你这真的是开心吗
我就我有的时候我get不到
就纯粹打游戏
我都觉得这个是一个很大的一个瘾
是一个很大的一个问题嗯
然后他就说
you know我已经相亲了两三年了
然后每一个都是都相亲的不太好

(51:34):
就感觉我放弃了我不做了
我的游戏比让我开心好几百倍
嗯
我为什么要一直受苦或是去做做这些
相亲for what
嗯
然后他们就觉得
我宁愿没有一个人在身边
然后这个游戏在身边

(51:54):
我的外卖在身边
我这些东西都这么方便
我到我真的需要这个吗
导致我觉得
他其实是一个很孤独的一个人
他是一个很就活得很空
可是他暂时没有意识到这个东西而已
可是现在社会就能保持你一直有游戏

(52:17):
一直有吃的喝的
就junk food都在一下就有
嗯那这些人怎么把他们拉回来呢
能拉回来吗
嗯
还是那句话
首先人家觉不觉得自己缺
嗯 人家觉不觉得需要被拉回来
那我们这个Podcast其实更多针对的是
包括来愿意听我们Podcast

(52:38):
愿意花时间听今天这个对话的朋友
是因为真的有这个需求
嗯他真的有问题
所以他对这个话题感兴趣
呃我们并不可能去强求一个人
呃改变自己的生活模式
如果他对这个改变他是没有渴望的话
啊这第一个
第二个就
是 我觉得以我的观点
真的需要这个对话的朋友

(52:58):
那么我可能来回应一下
你怎么改
怎么改变现状啊
我觉得大多数人生活能够完整
取决于你的生活中既有有意思的部分
就是不停地给你generate dopamine
制造多巴胺
制造内啡肽这个部分
嗯 比如说呃游戏
比如说好吃的食物
比如说社交

(53:19):
比如说可能呃运动
等等 啊
那除此之外
还有一部分是有意义的部分
也就是我所说的
可能我禁欲
可能我做好多事情
让自己吃这个必要的苦
因为我为了去抓寻意义
我知道这个有意思的部分
只能给我带来浅的体验

(53:40):
浅关系 浅体验
对于我这样的人来说
可能我必须得有那个深的东西
深层次的呃连接
我才能够开心
嗯 有的人
他可能一直停留在浅体验 浅关系里
但有的人
他一定得有那个深的部分
嗯 这就是我觉得
今天咱们这个对话讲到孤独

(54:02):
包括讲到有很多人
他真的会觉得空虚
嗯 是因为他开始对深的关系
深的体验有渴望了
哦
是个好事儿
是个好事儿
孤独 我没有听过
that's that's interesting
嗯
当你不再觉得多巴胺和浅关系
浅体验能够让你觉得满足了

(54:23):
嗯 你开始寻求深层次的东西了
嗯 这是个好事儿
这是一个
我们心理学上讲那个change model
前面我不停的提到那个change model
呃
这个过程
对客户的内心意愿转变的过程
有可能你在觉得孤独
在觉得你渴望升关系
升呃 升体验的时候

(54:44):
现在这个当下
这个时刻 其
实就是你的switch point
嗯 你的开关要转变的时机了
是一个多好的事啊
这就是孤独的意义
因为我看到很多孤独的人
其实他们第一反应是什么
很多不只是玩这些游戏

(55:06):
他们可能就觉得
那我养一个只狗
嗯 我养一只猫
嗯 就不孤独了
嗯
还会孤独啊
对啊 接着还会往下体验
所以其实就是说明
这个东西对他来说还没有达到足够
还没有打到他足够深
嗯
再过一段时间还会继续往下打
还会继续往下打
打到足够深的时候
人就会去发生转变了
嗯嗯

(55:26):
所以需要一个rock bottom的这个
这个过程
嗯 就会从向外求
突然间变成了我要向内修
嗯
哦 其实我也有过啊
其实我跟电台们也有啊
说过就是我
前面两年我在上海
第一刚来中国
中文也不太好
各样的 然后也有一点孤独

(55:47):
嗯突然找到一群clubbing的朋友
嗯 我们那个时候clubbing一周三四次
就一直在外面玩
玩的很开心
这群朋友我也特别
就感觉到我们稍微close了一点
嗯 然后
基本上我只跟这群朋友玩的差不多
十几个人
嗯
他们同一个公司

(56:08):
这个整个公司撤离开中国了
嗯 我突然从一个充满朋友
充满fun的一个环境
到一个一个朋友都没有的环境
突然就感觉what's going on
就我一个朋友都没有了
我什么社交都没有了
我也没有一些other friends可以
就完全就感觉到i'm lost的这种过程

(56:31):
然后就一个人在lonely
有一段时间才慢慢慢
慢出来 然后找到别的朋友
才开始it was hard
我觉得这个过程就特别难
特别苦
经常在家里就感觉是不是要哭了
我应该要i don't know what to do
就很就很lonely
然后再不想再体验这个过程

(56:53):
所以我才找到我的这个theory
就觉得
我是需要一直充满我的这个social
的一个圈子
我需要一直有i know
至少有一些close的朋友在身边
然后一些backup的一些朋友
或说难听一点啊
就感觉到这种trauma挺挺深的

(57:18):
嗯然后那个从那个时候后
我就觉得
嗯 i need
我需要嗯
一些backup
我需要一些plan
才能避免这个再发生一次
嗯 其实我觉得是maybe
有一些
没有人没有体验过的一个过程
嗯 所以他们也没有意识到需要这种
这种plan

(57:38):
嗯 是的
但是
同时你share了一个你分享的这个故事
我特别感谢你愿意跟我讲
这其实是你的一个所谓的
呃
作为异乡人
呃 初次感受到巨大的孤独来袭
然后意识到了我必须要有一个backup plan
我要有一个所谓的呃
保底的嗯
计划给自己创造一个安全空间

(58:01):
这个安全空间
我觉得现在已经从外部世界
逐步移到你的内心了
sure于是你向内深耕
我们才有了后面这么多podcast
然后包括今天聊这个话题
嗯 它也是一个从外往内走的过程
一样的 对于我来说也一样的
我在八九岁的时候经历了死亡以后
意识到了原来我生活中好多
事只有有意义才能给我带来呃快乐

(58:24):
嗯 那个浅关系和浅层次的体验
让我感觉不到快乐
那是老天爷让我
呃特别幸运
在八九岁就意识到了
有了一个这样的体验之后
意识到了
我必须要深关系 深体验
那有的人可能到了30岁意识到
有的人可能到了40岁意识到
嗯 早体验的
给我带来的这样的一个呃

(58:46):
幸运的呃
机会就是我可以成为一个心理师
嗯 在20岁的时候就意识到了
我这辈子的职业走向
是要成为一个心理师
心理学家
那可能有的人到了30多岁做这个事
嗯然后意识到了啊
我人生要有一个什么样的转变
或者新的目的
a new purpose that i need to serve嗯

(59:07):
包括你 你意识到了
哦 那我在中国生活的时候
作为一个ABC
我可能需要做一个什么样的plan
我才会觉得safe yeah
这对你的生活
就提早做了一些防御和计划
可是你觉得八九岁体验到这个嗯
是好事吗
有的时候我觉得这种

(59:30):
这种drama 嗯
这么早发生
有的时候 嗯
你就失去了一点
那种小孩的嗯
快乐吧 嗯
你一个childhood的
一个开心
一个单纯
可能就瞬间就没有了
我我可能有一个比较bold

(59:51):
就是有点大胆的想法
嗯这是在好多次不同的呃对话
或者是咨询的时候被cue到
我都是这么回答的
嗯这个是我曾经关于这个事儿
究竟是不是好事儿
或者这个事上怎么分类好事与坏事
我有过的一个深层的思考
我觉得这
个世界上没有所谓的坏事
哈哈哈

(01:00:12):
可能我有点太 嗯
我有点太
在有些事上
我有点太乐天
嗯
就是我没有这个对于黑或白的分类
嗯
我觉得这个世界上没有所谓的坏事
因为这个事它就算是坏事
但如果你接得住他
就能变成好事儿
这也是我的偶像
就是我特别幸运
我学心理学的时候

(01:00:33):
我跟的那个师傅
呃 Brad
嗯 他
呃 亦父亦师
他是个美国非常有名的心理学家
他妹妹也是在哈佛读了这个博后
然后也是个教授
非常牛 专门治疗这个心理
呃 心里的病人的疑难杂症
啊 他们两个人都特别厉害
他们两个人都对我影响重大
嗯 他们两个给我的感觉就是
这个世上没有坏事

(01:00:55):
坏事只要你接得住
都能变成好事
嗯 那么
老天爷一定要给我这样的一个打击
或一个体验
在八九岁的时候
嗯 我接住了
我接住了
它
就让我很早就找到了我的职业方向
和人生意义
那么就是好事
嗯 呃
如果现在在在听这个Podcast的你
在经历一些坏事

(01:01:15):
那如果你愿意
给我这样的心理师一个机会
你找你来找我
我就能陪你一起把它变成好事
那
如果你希望从这个孤独感受到孤独
这个时刻开始
去面对自己的一些情绪
那这个podcast对你来说也是好事
因为你找到了啊
我接下来要做这个事的方向
包括我们前面聊到的3种coping

(01:01:36):
也许你开始尝试了
哦 原来孤独感它是个好事儿
它又是一个好的起点
嗯 但有的人可能他会觉得扫
到了这个视频或者扫到了这个Podcast
他会觉得哎我现在听了你说话
我会觉得更孤独了
那这个Podcast或这个对话
本身对你来说就是坏事
对吧 所以所谓的好事坏事

(01:01:56):
他是第一看你是否能够接得住
第二他太主观了
嗯嗯
他太主观了
是的 大部分东西都是灰色
这这个这个level就有黑有白
可是大部分东西都是灰
我觉得可是一定有好的有坏的
我个人觉得

(01:02:16):
一定有一个相对好或相对坏
这个我OK
嗯
这个我同意
然后有一点前面提到的
你说我是不是失去了童年的那种快乐
好像对好多事都会去寻求深的关系了
不是这样的
我其实觉得
我反而会更加珍惜那些浅快乐
因为我会觉得这个浅快乐
浅关系浅的它都能往深了走

(01:02:39):
嗯那么我就取决于
我要不要把它变成深的体验yeah
嗯
那我反而会更珍惜这些浅快乐
就比如说
举个例子
我们今天来录Podcast
我可以呃
把它当成不过就是录个Podcast
我们一次对话而已
我也可以就是因为跟你初次合作
然后我把它看成是一个
也许它会往很好的方向走的

(01:03:01):
一个很长远的友情或关系
然后我很珍惜它
那因为小的时候的经历
让我对每一段呃Encounter
每一次相遇
对每一个体验我都很看重
我都相对珍惜和用心
嗯他也就能往好的方向发展
嗯
并没有让我失去前关系
或前体验的快乐
嗯哼

(01:03:24):
我只是觉得我爸爸妈妈经常跟我说
你长大长得太快了
就有的时候慢一点会更好
嗯嗯
可能是我
因为我是哥哥
可能就有一些带妹妹的一些过程
有的时候你就grow up too fast
嗯你没有
那个就是可以做小朋友做很久的一个

(01:03:45):
嗯一个过程吧
嗯然后可能that's why
我现在尽量
be more like a kid
嗯就能看到东西比较单纯一点
会更开心
嗯然后不需要i don't know
想想太深
有的时候
嗯我希望可以

(01:04:05):
就有一些东西
我有的时候就是表面的喜欢
我就表面喜欢
嗯
我觉得有人说太深也不是好事
哈哈哈
有意义和有意思并不冲突
OK我可以经常保持有意思的状态
嗯然后去寻求那有意思的东西
但是在我需要它有意义的时候

(01:04:26):
i could draw in the meaning
嗯
我可以把有意义这个东西召唤过来
有有很多人
他会把它变成一个冲突的东西
像你可能你会跟我讲这个事的时候
你会希望you're like relatively chill yeah right
carefree是因为你给这个有意义的东西
或者你给他那个caring的东西
carefree的东西
你让他变得和carefree对立

(01:04:47):
嗯他不一定是对立的
他可能真的只是add
more meaning to it make it more fun
maybe嗯
哦嗯
这个我不确定
可是我可以理解这个点
嗯
啊我觉得现在很多小朋友
嗯
特别是现在的小朋友 就是

(01:05:09):
接触的东西太多
嗯就像我前面说的
有的时候他们失去了一个一个childhood
嗯因为他们不管是有现在的抖音
是现在有
这些APP都接触的东西太快了
嗯
我是不是就年纪太大了
然后就感觉这个新的一代的朋友 嗯
都有一大堆问题

(01:05:30):
其实他们都be fine
嗯 是我最后一个question
嗯 好的
我觉得首先你的问题展现出来
你其实也是个人本主义者
you care about the young kids
of course yeah
you care about their future
你真的在意
呃 当然
很在意小朋友
而且我听你这个描述的感觉是
将来如果你有了孩子
如果有一天你想要孩子

(01:05:50):
包括你的little sister
你的妹妹
其实你很在意他们的健康
当然
你很希望他保持相对的简单和纯真
而且
你会用尽你的全力去维护这个东西
这是个特别好的事儿
我会很欣赏这个特质 啊
这是第一个我想share的
第二个我想说的是
不用太担心
嗯 因为很多东西
它就像黑格尔说的

(01:06:11):
存在即意义
呃
这些小朋友需要做的事情
其实恰恰是父母给他指路
让他肃清混乱
嗯 比如说
我举个例子
我如果将来有个孩子
或者包括现有的一些客户
他们有孩子
他并不太会让他的孩子
在5岁前接触社交媒体
或者有些小朋友
他的父母更严厉
在5岁前
他不会吃到糖

(01:06:31):
yeah
我这个也听说过
你不需要吃糖
因为你吃的很多食物里面自带糖
对 包括你接触的淀粉质
它里面就有很多糖了
我觉得这个选择是需要家长去做的
家长为孩子做的
我家有小孩
可能我也希望他在6岁之前不要吃糖
这个东西
不要 接触糖果这个食物

(01:06:52):
但是
它可以在很多不同的食物里汲取糖分
比如说水果里面自带果糖
说嗯我不会我我可能会不太会
希望我的小孩呃去接触社交媒体
在他不能肃清社交媒体带来的混乱
之前
嗯所以现在很多小朋友
他的当他的个人选择能力

(01:07:12):
有一定的困境的时候
有限的时候
父母其实要帮他做选择
嗯啊
心理师的功效就是
在可能有一些选择做的不是最好的
选择一但是已经做了之后
尽量帮这些小朋友们收个场
嗯哼
或者是我教他一个技能
让他学会
既然已经做了
接触社交媒体的这个选择

(01:07:34):
怎么去肃清社交媒体带来的混乱
yeah然后重新找到生活的主旨
嗯
因为我我不知道
你有没有听我跟Leon那个对话
嗯
我感觉到
现在的小孩真的不知道选什么
嗯他们爸爸妈妈就像你说的

(01:07:55):
他们会真的很care
嗯这些小朋友找到自己的一些爱好
嗯可是每次都发现
小孩更喜欢的不是玩柔术
游泳攀岩
小孩每次回到家
或是看到爸爸妈妈手机在哪
iPad在哪

(01:08:15):
就他们的
他们喜欢的东西
其实都变成这种电子化的东西
而不是care啊
我跟这群朋友玩了一
一个小时的柔术
嗯我找到一个新的friend
嗯
这些都比不上嗯
iPad能给他们的这个括号快乐
嗯他们就很小

(01:08:36):
可能十几岁就已经上瘾
这个东西就嗯不能自己判断
其实你多培养你这个朋友圈
你这些朋友的爱好
嗯
or whatever 这
个这个收拾会更开心
嗯 他们只看到我一回到家
我可以看什么什么卡通

(01:08:56):
我可以看什么
玩什么游戏
他们更care的是这些
而不是哇
我跟那个朋友玩得很开心
然后我好像学了一个降服
或是学了一个新的攀岩动作
他们没有那么care这些东西
他们更care就是我要回家
然后玩手机 玩iPad
嗯 其实你在跟我讲学了什么的时候

(01:09:19):
包括你会去回顾
我能看到
你其实也在回顾你童年的一些体验
yeah啊
那些是非常
其实已经相对现在小朋友来说
是非常深层次的快乐了
呃 这些都属于深关系
深快乐 为什么
因为它不是Instant gratification
对 它不是及时行乐
为什么 及时行乐
包括这些电子产品

(01:09:40):
对于我们成年人来说也是糖果
也是我们特别渴望的
因为它可以迅速的让你得到多巴胺
和内啡肽
这个instant gratification
也就是不延迟的快乐满足
是很多成年人的孤独
困局造成的根本原因
嗯 我们太渴望

(01:10:00):
及时行乐给我们带来的那个满足感
嗯
我没办法去追求稍微难一点的东西
或慢一点的东西了
嗯
这就是为什么
有时候我会刻意给我自己制造难关
嗯 比如说饿着
嗯 比如禁欲
比如说给我自己创造一个空间
让我能够独处
因为它让我觉得我可以慢下来

(01:10:22):
呃 刷手机
玩儿电子产品
无论是小孩儿也好
成年人也好
都是为了instant gratification
对 即时的糖果
即时的多巴胺
即时的内啡肽
家长就需要去阻止孩子总是
拿到这个即时的东西要延迟
这个满足

(01:10:43):
这个很难的点就是
我看到我爸爸妈妈谈恋爱的时候
他们其实他们只有三四个选择
他们那个时候就可能到美国
然后就只有三四个华人在他们身边
嗯 所以能结婚的人

(01:11:05):
一把手就只有这几个
嗯 所以他们会尽量把自己改变
成对方喜欢的一个
嗯 他们会觉得我不
我不够好
我需要进步
让这个人更喜欢我
嗯
我发现我们这一年代更偏

(01:11:27):
对方要喜欢我
我不用变
我不是我是完美的
我不用变
然后机会一大堆
因为我有手机
所以我一定能找到最喜欢我
不用变的这个我
嗯
然后就跟他们那一代是相反的
嗯 他们是我需要变得更好

(01:11:49):
我需要进步
然后现在的小孩是我不用进步
like me like i am right now的
这个
这个心态我就觉得是
错的也
可是你也教不会他们
因为其实他们的确感觉到
机会有那么多

(01:12:09):
选择有那么多
因为的确手机上真的一直刷
我淘宝上什么东西都可以买
我刷APP谁都能找得到
就这个feeling
在你头脑里
就感觉我为什么需要改变啊
有这么多人在追我
有这么多人在跟我聊天
何必需要变呢
一定有一个是喜欢我的吧

(01:12:31):
这种这个环境就太不一样了
嗯 你就年纪大了
不能教小小了一代
因为他们体验就是嗯
completely different
180度的不一样
是的 体验是不一样的
但是宇宙的规则
世界运行准则
不会因为年代的转变而转变
其实我 说的直白一点
当你说到你爸妈的时候

(01:12:52):
我也想到我爸妈
这个其实是一个主动选择的过程呀
为了我爱的人
或者为了我喜欢的东西
或者是为了那个服务的目标
去改变自己
让我自己变得更利他
更能够创造意义
这是深关系呀
那个 总会有人喜欢我吧
当你听到这句话的时候
其实你没发现有这样的mindset

(01:13:12):
有这样的一个心态的人
就包括啊
我就算觉得孤独
总有个up会达到我的需求吧
对啊 就总有东西会满足我吧
嗯 这其实是
把自己放在一个被选择的位置
我的选择权其实反而降低了
哦
当我去主动获取信息
或者我主动去创造意义
或者是我渴望一个深关系

(01:13:33):
于是
我愿意为了这个深关系去付出的时候
我其实是在一个选择对方的状态里
我有更多主动权
嗯 我等着什么什么APP来满足我
我觉得很孤独
于是我渴望有新的朋友
或者我渴望有一个什么什么人
他会like me as i am喜欢我
就因为我是这样的

(01:13:54):
这在渴望一个无条件的满足
以及无条件的及时行乐
嗯 这是把自己放在一个被动的状态
对的 所谓的孤独
说直白一点
以这个作为总结
我现在就敢讲这个话题
因为你q到了这个
我觉得特别特别的关键的点是
当你觉得孤独
但是你又不会主动去做任何事

(01:14:16):
来解决任何负面情绪
包括孤独感这个情绪的时候
你是长期处于一个匮乏
和被动的状态的
嗯
主动起来 呃
和你的选项多少其实是没关系的
嗯
主动选择反而会让你有很多的选项
嗯
主动选择的人和主动解决的问题

(01:14:38):
只会让你变得
呃
资源无穷
嗯
um
我作为一个
我把 我会跟你说
很多人就会呃
很多人就会回答你
那我是Aaron
我不 不擅长主动

(01:15:00):
我其实我
我不应该主动
因为我是i人
我不懂怎么主动
嗯 其实你现在作为一个i人
如果屏幕前的你也有这样的想法
跟Arthur有相似的想法
其实是你已经
你可能自己意识不到
但你的 呃
那个subconscious Iceberg
就是你的那个浅层意识冰山
已经你已经开始破冰了

(01:15:21):
嗯 因为你现在在听我们podcast
哎 你现在在听我们对话
嗯 你现在在听我们这个枯燥的 呃
或者说是在寻求深层意义的对话
你没有在刷小红书
嗯 你没有在玩游戏
你为什么在听这个对话呢
因为在听这个对话
你在这个对话上花时间
就证明你已在寻求solution

(01:15:42):
你在寻求解决方式了
嗯 这一刻本来你可以用来吃好吃的
拿到一些吉士多巴胺
你没吃
嗯 你已经不是那个你想象中的我
是个很哀的人
我并不知道怎么解决
你早就不是那个人了
你已经我说的直白一点儿
你在听这个podcast之前
也许你是那样的人
在听到这个的时候
你已经破冰了

(01:16:03):
你再往前走一步
你可能就能够远离那个孤独感了
i hope so我真的
我也真的希望
这个能改变一些人的对这个
这个的看法
嗯 因为
比如说 我身边的朋友
我也很难说服他们
应该多主动一点

(01:16:23):
多出去找一些你喜欢的东西
不一定他是人
就多主动找你喜欢的东西
你喜欢吃的什么
而不是就一直在被动的
人家想吃什么你就吃什么
嗯 人家推给你什么
你就去哪里
嗯
没事 朋友们
伙伴们
你们听这个podcast的时候不要有压力

(01:16:44):
you know all the friends out there
who's whoever's paying attention to us
right now please don't feel pressured呃
就是你做好准备了
随时可以加入我们
嗯 但是在你没有做好准备之前
不要会 不要觉得
you know this is like the moment
i need to make a decision about whether
i wanna move forward or be more uh initiating
就是 呃

(01:17:05):
你没做好那个主动的准备呢
嗯 那你就先飞一会儿
hang in there
嗯 嗯
下次你再觉得孤独的时候
回到我们这个podcast
再打开再听
也许那个时刻你就做好准备去做一些
do something about it
嗯
做一些事情让你觉得不那么孤独了
那我们随时在这儿等着你

(01:17:25):
this podcast is gonna be here
forever
yeah we're gonna be here
好 然后
真的 如果你们想找Lily
应该怎么找到你啊
你有你的practice
怎么找到
呃 加我的微信就好
然后
我会把我的微信让阿sir附在这个
对的
呃 下面
你有什么小红书啊
b站啊这些吗
最近在做

(01:17:46):
都在做 嗯 great
那这些我都会放在形容词
okay 大家
i hope you enjoyed it
bye bye
that was great
Hello everyone, today we have Lily.
Lily, welcome to my podcast.
It's really an honor to be here today, I'm very happy!
I invited you here because I recently discovered
many of my friends say they feel lonely.
More lonely
And then I have my own thoughts.
I think there are their own reasons.
But I really want to bring a professional over
Explain the current society
why everyone feels more lonely
more lonely
Do you have any ideas?
I think first,
I've been reading some books these days.
and also because many of my clients
who would talk to me about this topic.
such as emotion management,
such as
it's hard to be alone with themselves.
and think being alone is a huge difficulty.
And so on. Actually, why do I read books
to solve this problem.
because I found that
when I started to face these problems yesterday,
I could empathize,
but I couldn't give them the answers they wanted.
Uh-huh.
For me,
from the beginning of learning this topic,
and even when I started learning psychology,
loneliness is a topic I often face.
But I may think differently from most people.
Uh-huh.
Because there is a popular concept on the internet,
I and E people.
Oh, ha ha.
I know many people talk to me about this topic.
they say loneliness
They can't accept it.
and they feel very uncomfortable.
It's a huge dilemma.
Most of them are extroverts.
Then, I am an introvert
Hmm.
For introverts
loneliness is a great moment.
For me it's the moment of my energy storage.
In fact, introverts are not able to obtain energy by talking to people
Introverts need to be alone
or even feel
the room is so quiet that a needle can be heard.
At this time, reading books
and think about problems by myself,
to gain energy.
So I read a book
and I read a book called
called The Nightingale and the Rose by Oscar Wilde.
And it contains a concept called
It should mention an object called a rocket.
and rockets are one of them.
They, um,
in this book,
one of the issues they address.
Well, the Rockets really want to be sentimental.
and wants to have emotions.
It's right next to it.
There is another
other protagonist is persuading him to keep dry,
Because for Rocket,
if you don't stay dry,
you can't fly.
Your main function will be gone.
Well, that's it.
Why did I introduce this story?
Maybe it's a bit confusing to start with this topic.
But what I mean is to express that
for people like me,
the function of loneliness is to let me absorb energy.
to charge.
Yes, charging.
So it's like a battery.
When I talk to people in my daily life,
As a psychologist, a psychiatrist
Psychologists always leak energy when talking to people.
And after recording the podcast today,
is also a process of me releasing energy.
I'm leaking again.
Yes.
Being alone will charge me.
which is very comfortable.
For these extroverts
they hate loneliness.
and it's very uncomfortable.
Actually, from this perspective,
I think you have got what I'm talking about.
They don't have the same thing as
rocket
or me.
find the role of loneliness.
Um.
Like a rocket,
It has to show its sentimentality.
or cry.
regardless of its function of flying into the sky.
and must stay dry.
He will really want to
you know uh go against他的purpose
against his ultimate purpose.
and then
must do something that is not
outside of his main function.
Well, I think most extroverts
would be so resentful
the process of being quiet or lonely,
or the state of being alone.
So I feel like I am an introvert
I think I need my own time.
and spend some time alone at home,
Whether it's cooking,
or listening to music.
I need this charging time.
Yeah.
But I don't think so.
there is not such a clear distinction between introverts and extroverts.
Personally, I think
most introverts use this as an excuse
to avoid socializing.
because socializing is becoming increasingly difficult.
Every group has its own language.
and their own thresholds.
which makes socializing more and more difficult.
Whether online
or face to face,
Now many people think socializing is too difficult.
Then I don't want to socialize.
So I don't want to socialize.
Do you want to say that you are an e-person?
Uh e person
Then I don't need socializing.
I use this as an excuse.
So I found that
more and more people don't want to socialize.
But they still need socializing.
Because I think as humans,
are still social creatures.
we still need someone around us.
We can't be completely alone.
So it leads to these people may
need socializing.
but socializing has become too difficult.
So they decide
then I don't socialize.
I totally agree with what you said.
And it actually gives me a lot of inspiration.
while listening to you.
Let me explain what I said earlier.
Actually, it's from two aspects.
The first aspect is, um,
loneliness is useful.
but only if you know the benefits of loneliness.
That is
It's something you're actively doing.
Not using it to avoid something.
Yeah.
For example,
I said I enjoy loneliness.
I'm actually very happy.
It's because loneliness appears when I need it.
The loneliness I create
The so-called loneliness I create
I create this so-called alone time
I need to charge myself.
But if you imagine
I really need to communicate with people now.
For example, now we are recording a podcast.
I tell you that I actually need to be alone now.
Ha ha.
This is actually contrary to my current role as a
podcast speaker, as a
As a guest.
as a guest,
the person you invited to record a podcast with you.
This function completely contradicts
That's the second point I want to introduce.
Um.
On the premise that I know my function clearly,
I use this thing to
to enjoy the moment of loneliness and charging.
This is a very, very good moment.
This is me enjoying it,
not as an excuse.
Uh.
That's what I just said about the first point.
I'm going to introduce the second point.
I think most people feel very lonely
it's because loneliness appears in a wrong position.
which we often don't realize in our lives.
But in fact, it often appears in a
chaos.
Hmm.
chaotic situation.
Um.
In fact, many psychologists
aim to clear up the chaos.
to clear up the chaos.
As a psychologist,
many times,
you bring me a puzzle of thought.
you bring me a big line,
or a big ball of confusion.
For example,
Maybe I do.
I do, uh.
You know, I love to make sweaters.
knitting, yeah.
I love knitting, yeah, I love it.
This is a thing that my grandma used to do.
a thing my grandma did.
Yes, crochet.
I think we call it crochet.
crochet in those days.
I also do knitting.
I also crochet.
I really like to make art with it.
Since I was a child, maybe because of my grandmother
my grandmother and other relatives also did it.
And for me,
it's like a spiritual healing process.
It makes me feel like they are still with me.
So every time I miss them especially,
I actually do what they do.
Well, now it's spring.
many people will go to dig wild vegetables.
Maybe relatively speaking,
such as those born in the nineties,
not many people born in the nineties do this.
But the reason why I do this
is because for me,
it is a
an emotional anchor.
It makes me feel like I'm back in a safe space.
Um, um.
It's a psychological concept.
Safe space.
This safe space is what I do
what people who bring me a sense of security would do.
When I do these things,
Yes.
it's a process of clearing up the chaos in my life.
Many people come with their loneliness
because they hate their loneliness so much,
or they feel that in the present moment,
I don't want to accept this loneliness.
I don't know what to do.
This feeling of loneliness makes me feel that I'm in contact
that I feel very uncomfortable when I get along with others.
It's because the loneliness appears.
Yeah.
It's not allowed to appear.
He can't accept the moment and position of loneliness.
which causes chaos.
Okay.
Okay.
I understand this.
And I also agree with this.
Yes.
Is there a way to make these people less lonely?
I think in many aspects,
I've actually talked to Leon about this.
I think these people haven't created
create an environment
to make themselves not lonely.
But they just haven't learned how to do it
or don't know they need it.
When they suddenly feel lonely,
there is no environment to accommodate them.
That's all I can say.
Hmm.
I think it may be that
whether the environment around you is good
or you create this environment for yourself,
it allows you to
to develop freely
and be yourself, but in most cases,
we can't blame it on the environment.
There is a thing in psychology called attribution system.
Sometimes, attribution
which is the attribution system.
Sometimes we can attribute it to the outside.
we can demand an environment.
but most of the time,
we can't actually demand this environment.
Yes.
This environment is like a then.
Zen.
It's something that comes with you.
Um.
Let me tell you my thoughts.
My theory is actually self-created.
I've been exploring it recently.
and came up with it myself.
I think
everyone has a social
or emotional mailbox.
You need two to three good friends
to fill this emotional mailbox.
Maybe you only need one.
Some people need two,
and some need three.
Anyway, everyone's email box size is different.
Yes.
Most people don't know
when this mailbox is about to be empty.
and one goes away.
You may lose a friend.
A good friend goes from five to four.
it doesn't matter.
It's still eighty percent.
It's okay to go from five to three.
I still have at least three friends
who can keep me from being lonely.
But what if there are only two?
What if there's only one left?
It's already too close to empty.
it's too close to empty.
Hmm.
At this time,
they realize that I am a little lonely.
It's already too late.
Because it takes a long time
which takes a long time.
You need to screen many, many friends
before they can become close friends by your side.
It was too late.
Then he realized
my emotional mailbox was almost empty.
They will feel that I am lonely.
I didn't know what to do.
Then I started to mess up.
So,
I think the best way is to always go out and socialize.
and keep screening.
and new friends will come in.
And then slowly, slowly,
you can have more friends.
Sometimes, you only need these three friends.
Yeah.
But if one goes abroad
one finds another job,
you still have some
to be honest, backups.
can fill up this mailbox.
so you never have only one friend left.
Yeah.
I love this concept.
Hmm.
I think your original point of view
or you may have thought about it for a while.
your email storage
From what I've heard,
you may be good at making friends
and manage your circle of friends.
I actually quite agree with this point of view.
But there is a problem.
If you are like me,
because I'm a nerd.
as I shared with you before.
I'm quite nerdy, love studying psychology.
and I also like reading.
So,
from the perspective of a psychologist,
this view
your attribution system is
you're still attributing it to the outside.
your happiness comes from
Uh.
your gas tank,
or needs.
For example,
if you were a car,
I'm also a petrolhead.
I love driving.
Then the oil must come from the outside.
Yes, fill it up.
But if I am a
and imagine myself as a car,
I'm a hybrid.
I must be able to create some myself.
I may need to refuel occasionally.
but I'm an electric car most of the time.
Yes, I'm a hybrid.
I can drive on the road by myself.
I'm always charged.
and I can even generate electricity myself.
I can drive.
Occasionally, I need to be refueled by others.
Because I need some freshness.
But most of the time, I am self-sufficient.
Many people's loneliness actually comes from
they can't add the oil by themselves.
Yes.
So once their friends move,
or his friends go to some other place
or other friends,
or leave his so-called safe space,
That's right.
they have nothing to support themselves.
Yes.
The so-called loneliness is actually the first
I can't provide myself with much emotional value.
at this moment.
or I can't recharge myself.
or refuel.
But although you are mixed,
you still need this.
The outside world is what everyone needs.
I think humans all need a little bit of social interaction.
No matter how much or how little,
Everyone needs a little.
Because we can't live alone in the mountains.
and no one cares about us.
Yes, we are social animals.
Yes.
Yes, we are social animals.
We must have a little social interaction.
Yes.
And I think many people when they reach zero,
when their emotional mailbox is empty.
don't know how to fill it up.
They have forgotten how to socialize and chat with friends.
They have been out of the social circle for too long,
So they can't fill it up and they are out of date.
I really like this topic.
In fact, this topic is what I have always wanted to talk about.
when I think about loneliness,
I think of this topic.
To put it bluntly,
First, if you can charge yourself,
and charge yourself,
you will know how to charge others.
It's unlikely.
You won't have friends.
Why? Because between you and your friends,
there is always an energy exchange process.
OK.
then you don't need to constantly feel insecure.
because you can do it anytime, anywhere.
If you are good at cheering yourself up
and recharge yourself,
you can always make new friends.
Well, whenever you go to a social occasion,
you can make new friends.
It's not that hard.
Once again, I think it's a matter of need.
Hmm.
if you are a person with a strong sense of scarcity,
and you rely on motivation to move forward,
then your need for friends is one hundred percent.
Yeah.
For example,
relatively speaking,
your own energy and oil
are generally at fifty or sixty percent,
you might meet a friend
or two friends,
your need for friends will instantly reach one hundred.
Yes.
Yes, at this time,
your need for friends is not that high.
Uh-huh.
and you won't feel insecure frequently.
Again,
you may also know
how to exchange energy with your friends.
This process won't be so difficult.
Uh.
To put it bluntly,
Loneliness is a lack of emotional value.
Lack of emotional value
Sometimes we need it very much from the outside.
we need to socialize with others.
Lack of emotional value
Sometimes we need to give it ourselves.
Yes, you can give it to yourself.
But it's never a zero or a hundred.
It's not like today I socialize with others,
and I'll be at one hundred.
Tomorrow I come back and stay alone,
and suddenly I'm at zero.
It's always a dynamic process.
It's always dynamic.
It's possible that I'm lacking ten or twenty today.
because I'm eighty.
Maybe I'll lack fifty or sixty tomorrow.
Yes.
It's okay.
I will find a way to face it.
Why?
This is actually a topic I often talk to my clients about.
It's called coping strategy.
Yes.
It means building a coping mechanism.
Uh.
self-control or self-management mechanism.
OK.
How to do it?
First,
I need to identify
I need to know
For example, whether I am a car
or as a person,
I'm leaking.
I'm out of power.
or out of oil,
right now,
what kind of physical reaction or state I have.
Because when you realize that
all your oil has been used up.
it's too late.
Yeah, exactly.
It's too late.
In fact, most people are confused
they come to a psychologist after being confused for a long time.
Yes, it's a state of seeking medical treatment.
At this time,
It's really too late.
Uh, uh.
Well,
if you
if you have this situation,
before you are exhausted,
maybe half a month or a month,
you have already begun to realize
some bad states.
This is your friends around you
or yourself
often do some self-observation.
The benefits of it
It includes between you and your friends.
For example, this friend.
if he is really your good friend,
I believe that in fact, for him,
You don't have to wait until he moves to know.
In most cases,
before he leaves
or leave your safe space,
you will know it a month earlier.
In this case,
you have already started to look for new friendships
or build other
and interesting relationships.
Uh-huh.
You are already doing
the process of storing electricity.
Secondly, friends shouldn't be your only
Uh.
your comfort zone.
including recognizing
I'm out of power.
I don't even have anyone now.
I'm so lonely.
In fact, when you feel
you feel a little lonely,
you can do many things at home at this moment.
Well, this is the effect of that coping strategy.
Sorry, this is the effect of coping strategy.
I think many people now
are not familiar with their own emotions.
When they are unhappy,
they don't know why they are unhappy.
or how it happened.
They just suddenly feel unhappy.
And they don't feel it.
What do they do when I'm not happy?
They play with their phones.
They just put a Band-Aid on it.
or put a band aid on it.
But they don't know the specific reason for my unhappiness.
Yeah.
I have a friend
who practices Brazilian jiu-jitsu. When he's unhappy,
he goes to the jiu-jitsu gym.
He doesn't know why he goes to the jiu-jitsu gym,
he feels that
he thinks the jiu-jitsu gym is a happy place for him.
I just go there
and vent my emotions.
and I feel better.
But the specific reason why you are unhappy
it still exists.
This problem is always in your life.
You just go to the jiu-jitsu gym
to relieve stress,
But the problem
this shit is still in your life.
Well, he doesn't know what this shit is,
or where the problem is.
So they keep doing it, doing it, doing it.
Or some people are even more exaggerated,
they just play games.
or just play with their phones.
or brush dopamine.
But you don't know why.
your life suddenly makes you unhappy.
There are three mechanisms for emotion management.
The topic you mentioned is actually very accurate.
I think
Do you just like
you usually like to learn psychology,
or not at all.
or have no self-exploration.
I just saw some friends like this.
So I'm curious why they keep coming.
what's the situation recently?
And then they might
they are not happy at home.
Oh, that's great.
That's great, which means you're good at observing people.
This
It's actually a concept in psychology.
Coping is the management mechanism I just mentioned.
coping mechanism.
There are three types of emotion management mechanisms.
The first type is what you said,
I do a lot of things to
to distract yourself.
Yes.
The first type of coping is distraction.
Mm.
Distraction, for example, I give an example.
things that girls like to do,
Shopping.
ha ha ha, shopping.
Yes.
You know, do our hair.
or
Uh.
or manicure, pedicure.
or manicure.
These are all distractions.
Including sometimes I will go to
I feel very
After consulting for a whole day,
and very exhausted,
I will watch
watch one or two episodes of American TV series.
There is a very good American TV series recently,
The Days of Jack O'Lantern.
The Days of Jack O'Lantern.
Ah ha ha ha.
It's called Days of Jack O'Lantern.
I will watch it.
After watching it,
it doesn't help.
because it's just a distraction.
It can only
it can only make you feel relieved at this moment.
But you, um,
after being distracted many times,
you will find it useless.
Yes.
All distractions
will eventually be useless.
Then comes the second stage,
which is called emotion-focused coping.
The second coping
is to deal with emotions.
this, um,
which is to manage the specific emotions you perceive.
That's why many of my clients
and many patients
come to me for emotion-focused coping
or therapy.
They tell me
they tell me, Lily, I'm really upset
and their emotions are out of control.
and ask me
or you talk to me.
Then,
During the more than an hour of consultation,
what they do is to vent their emotions.
In this case,
is purely emotion-focused coping.
Then we talked.
For example, we are recording a podcast now
we are talking about the topic of loneliness.
The topic itself
including the podcast itself
and our conversation itself
is emotion-focused coping.
It's about managing emotions.
After we talk about loneliness,
we both may feel that
our resonance
and our conversation itself
makes us less lonely.
And maybe we will give each other some
Ah, you get me.
I get you.
Through this process of empathy,
we both feel less lonely.
Because we get to each other.
This is actually an emotion-focused coping.
Any conversation
any conversation itself has a healing effect.
Yes, it will.
They are all therapeutic.
This is the second one.
But the second one
it's still not good enough.
That's why you say
you say the shit is still there.
Yes, it's still not good enough.
That's the third type.
It is also the deepest level of counseling.
which is what a psychologist does during counseling.
will do.
Well, many clients
after talking to me several times
or come to me for many consultations,
I gradually transferred a skill to them.
It means to convey to him
or share with him.
Um.
so that they may not need to come to me for counseling.
and he himself
he can do some self-healing.
which is solution-focused coping.
It's self-regulation for problems.
You feel lonely.
Next time you feel lonely,
or any other negative emotions,
you think it's a negative emotion.
For example,
For me, loneliness
is not a negative emotion.
Yes, I will.
I won't go into details.
Because I think you get me instantly.
But for many people,
when loneliness, a negative emotion, appears,
Next time,
you can ask yourself a question that is
what is the function
what is it serving me?
Hmm.
It reminds me
what kind of
problems in real life.
For example, should I make a new friend?
Because my friend is moving.
so I suddenly feel like I've lost this person.
I feel lonely.
For example, I'm, um,
reminds me that
my current relationship
my boyfriend or girlfriend
he can't actually bring me companionship.
can't provide companionship.
This sense of loneliness,
long-term loneliness
in this relationship,
may be reminding me
whether I should start a new
more meaningful relationship
or find a better partner.
Maybe some people
because of homesickness.
Oh yeah.
For example, many of my clients
Uh.
They may be away from
the culture he grew up with.
and they have lived in that culture for a long time.
state.
Maybe this
For example, during holidays,
or Christmas,
I have many clients.
they are Asian American.
or
or Caucasian from Europe.
They may have lived in China for a long time,
they may feel like they like China.
But right now,
I feel homesick.
Yes.
This loneliness
It's very clear.
What is the reminder that it brings to you?
It's time to go home.
You should go back and see your family.
It will make you feel healed.
After this problem is solved,
you don't need to use so many other coping
distraction methods.
Because that shit is actually being managed, yeah.
and taken care of.
being managed.
That shit is probably not there or diminished.
Hmm.
I can understand.
I'm curious.
how many psychiatrists
would actually do this last section.
Because I'm a pessimist,
especially for the current American medical system.
you will find that many of them don't take care of
real problems.
They just keep asking you to take medicine.
Hmm.
And I think psychology also has this environment,
that they keep giving you therapy
but never solve the problem.
They just keep talking to you.
talk talk talk.
But some of your problems will still exist.
I think mental health
and physical health.
there is this risk.
That is, your doctor just wants you to keep coming
and keep paying money.
and keep paying.
to make money for the environment.
But they don't solve some deep-seated problems.
I see.
I think this issue is actually very
it actually meets the needs and concerns of many customers.
Yeah.
I really want to discuss this topic with you.
actually,
I think this may be the first one.
For good psychologists,
some clients also have such misunderstandings.
Even for me,
as a relatively responsible
and my
clinical psychology
it's like the cornerstone of my practice.
It's humanistic.
I am a humanist.
humanistic.
humanists can never violate
I will always give you what you need.
Yeah.
Even so,
some of my clients may during the consultation
for one or two years,
still haven't achieved the goal they want,
they will doubt me and say
do you just want to keep me on the payroll?
Yeah.
Well, I'm just a meal ticket for you.
They will keep coming.
Actually,
First of all,
about this,
I have always told my clients
you don't need to worry.
because I'm not that short of clients.
Well, when you find a psychologist,
you need to see if he is effective.
He makes you feel that every time you come,
you don't have any improvement.
And then you feel that this, this
psychologist or psychiatrist,
or a psychiatrist,
he needs you.
needs you far less than you need him.
Because he needs your money.
but you don't need what he gives you so much.
At this time,
it's actually a red alert moment.
No.
Yes, it's a red alert.
You should pause or stop.
Uh-huh.
Because for a good psychologist,
our aim is to
The aim of our whole practice is to lose job.
What does it mean?
If I never lack clients,
then the client in front of me
he is the most important.
The consensus we reach is that
I hope you get well soon.
and then you can go out and help me spread the word.
My goal is to lose this client in front of me
and get the next client.
and then you can live the life you desire.
My function is only
to help you live the life you want.
and as soon as possible.
This is what I have been doing.
a conversation with my personal trainer.
I think that now I see many gyms
those personal trainers.
coaches.
They just don't want to lose their clients.
But I always think that
a good coach
should solve your problems.
And then next.
Yes, you don't need me to teach you something.
and then you don't need me.
and you can run by yourself.
But too many coaches
will only teach you a little bit,
or make you rely on me all the time,
and make you come back every week.
and come back every week.
Yes.
This is false attachment, not true attachment.
True attachment is
I always have something new to share with you.
and share it with you, and you will come.
Yes, I don't need to control you
or withdraw information.
It means holding back some information
not telling you.
This is fake attachment.
Because you will get fed up and leave eventually.
True attachment
A healthy attachment relationship means I tell you everything.
and I don't care.
You know everything.
I might even tell my clients directly
I'll tell you how I do it, and I'll share everything with you.
But the reason why customers still come back is that
because he really can't do it.
Well, this is the second thing I want to talk about.
for a psychologist like me,
sometimes I still get some doubts.
Why have I been with you for a year or two,
I still haven't made enough progress.
The reason for this lack of progress
In fact, it's not because
It's not because
it's not because a responsible psychologist doesn't share information.
but the book I mentioned earlier,
the book by Wilde
which tells the story of the shadow and the rose.
The rocket must not be kept dry.
he must be sentimental and cry.
The rocket's partner
just like my role as a psychologist,
constantly
persuade the rocket,
and describe it to Rocket.
But if you cry,
you can't fly to the sky.
Well, once you cry,
you can't stay dry.
Your most important function will be lost.
But Rocket
he doesn't give up,
he will cry.
The reason I tell this story
is because many of my clients
are eager for me to mention
I only provide companionship and emotional value.
They don't want me to provide them with the third solution.
If you come to me,
you must want the third one.
to really solve the problem
and then move on.
and then you can live the life you want.
But most of my clients
they hate me to provide that.
It's like a whiplash.
a whip behind him
to whip him and spur him
to live the life he wants.
Yes.
This is actually a psychological concept model
called the Change Model.
It's the customer's willingness to change.
For example, if you come to me,
I quickly do an assessment for you.
so-called assessment.
I know from the first conversation that
this is a
who has a strong desire to change.
he really wants to know the way to solve the problem.
对
Then, through two or three consultations or conversations,
you start to change.
But most people
in the change model,
the change model.
in terms of the willingness to change,
they are in the first stage.
they don't know where their predicament lies.
Secondly, if you tell them at this time
you can change,
or even I have seen it.
after how many consultations
or after how many hours of conversation,
maybe you can start a new life.
His feeling is fear.
Because from the perspective of Gestalt psychology,
it's like a person
who has been used to a long-term
unhealthy lifestyle pattern
or a long-term
an unhealthy attachment relationship
which makes him feel complete.
At this time, you tell him
you can be complete without it.
His feeling is not ecstatic.
He is still in the first stage of changing the model.
His feeling is fear.
and even thinks you are the resistance.
Because you want him to give up
the safe space he has been familiar with.
But everyone is a little scared.
This, this.
You will be scared no matter how you think about it.
Whether it's starting a new job,
or starting a new relationship.
Starting a new relationship or something new.
Everyone will be a little scared.
The question is whether they can move on.
Everyone is afraid.
but not a little.
Your fear
may be a little different from mine.
First, maybe we are more mature in age.
In this, uh,
when I face many of my clients,
they are born in the two thousands or nineteen ninety-five,
a few years younger than me.
Uh,
People who are relatively stable in mind and emotions
they will be very calm.
For example, for both of us,
the basis of our conversation is
we both accept emotions very calmly.
For example, we both may be a little scared,
but most people are not a little scared.
On a scale of one to ten,
their fear value may be eight or nine.
When you mention something new,
what is your fear level, sir?
It depends on whether I am familiar with this field.
For example,
I moved from one advertising agency to another.
No problem, but a little bit.
I'm worried that I might not get along well
or get along with the boss.
or not getting along with colleagues.
It's just a little bit.
On a scale of one to ten, how would you rate it?
One to two, yes.
There are also many.
For example, if I start
start a new sport,
I'm not familiar with this sport.
maybe four or five.
Because I'm worried that I
I'll get hurt.
I don't know the risks of this sport.
I might give more.
It depends on your familiarity with the field.
Yeah.
I think you've hit the nail on the head.
Because your state,
and your ability to recognize emotions,
you are not confused.
Hmm.
For many people,
don't have the concept of one to ten.
For the process of progress
This progress towards ten.
I really feel a little scared now.
I think it's nine.
I have no feelings now.
I'm just zero or one.
Only this.
Most people when facing new things,
they have a little fear.
or they feel that they are afraid now.
They instantly rise to nine.
Yeah.
Some of my clients with trauma
including those who are very scared and negative.
After the first and second consultations,
disappear for a while and then come back.
Because of the huge fear,
is swallowing him.
I let them face this thing directly.
Yeah, he needs to digest it.
Yes.
I can get it.
especially young people.
they may not have enough feelings.
Their new experiences
aren't enough to make them understand.
Oh, this.
This is too dangerous,
or not that dangerous.
So they don't know
they haven't controlled the degree well.
I understand.
Um.
But do young people really need it?
Maybe I'm old.
When I was a kid, I never thought that
I didn't need a psychologist when I was twenty.
I never thought that
it was something I needed around me.
If I'm unhappy,
I might just do what I mentioned earlier,
I might go swimming, or have a meal with friends,
or stay at home and write a diary.
Uh-huh.
I'll be fine.
I feel like I can solve it myself sometimes.
So in my twenties,
I actually think I'm invincible
and don't need these people.
and don't need these services.
But now I feel that as I get older,
the younger they are to see a psychologist.
Uh, yes.
What's going on in the world?
They need this thing.
Uh.
This is really a question.
This is such a question.
呃
Actually, this is also a question asked by some of my clients.
Why do I
including some mothers.
and bring their children
maybe eight or nine years old,
Hahaha.
Well, really.
That's a good thing.
First, it won't make me unemployed.
I would never lose my meal ticket or my job.
That's a good thing.
But, um,
from that perspective,
it's actually because in our current society,
people are more and more clear about their needs.
In my opinion, when I was a child,
when I was a teenager or twenty,
because I was born in the nineties.
I was also confused at that time.
and I might have been a big ego person in the past.
I felt that many things
especially when I was twenty,
I felt invincible,
and omnipotent.
Now I might do this so-called
I mentioned three coping mechanisms earlier.
The first one,
distraction coping.
distraction coping is enough.
But now the children
are different from the past.
First, the resources in society are abundant enough.
I have this service.
For many children,
their feeling is
I can use it.
why not?
I'll just experience it.
Just as an experience.
The second reason is that
I think in many cases,
nowadays children
their survival crisis is greater than ours.
You are born in the eighties,
I'm a post-nineties.
is much bigger than ours.
They worry about losing at the starting line.
They will hope that when I face a survival crisis,
or this problem.
If I don't need to procrastinate,
I can solve it.
I'll find a professional to solve it.
I will pave the way now.
and move forward with this skill.
I'm not sure if it's a good thing.
I'm thinking now.
Yes.
I also ask you.
I think
there's a psychologist on call at any time.
on call.
Is that a good thing?
Sometimes,
you need to digest some problems by yourself.
Without this doctor,
I think it's better from a certain perspective.
You have more time to be alone.
and say,
what's the problem?
I need to spend some time analyzing it.
I have the ability to analyze.
Instead of
I don't go to a psychologist every time I'm unhappy.
I think this seems like, um,
is not a good thing.
Your
Uh.
The answer is in your question.
Let me repeat what you just said.
I wanna echo it back to you.
You just said
You said, um,
I have the ability to be alone.
I have the ability to digest this matter.
I want to digest it first and then find it.
This is actually very good.
I really hope my clients can do this.
I don't want them to be pathologically attached to me.
Yes, I would send messages to Lily when I have problems.
I have such clients.
There must be.
He will think I'm a little unhappy now,
and they will bombard me with messages.
I don't care if you are dealing with other clients.
I will call you now.
In this case, it is actually pathological attachment.
Including our lovers.
we shouldn't do that either.
nor should we do this to our family members.
shouldn't do this.
We should first detach ourselves.
But many people go back to what you said earlier.
You said you would feel like having a space to be alone.
If it can't be solved,
it's better to seek professional help.
This is actually my service philosophy.
Well, many children I have contacted
if they have this problem,
I have observed that
at the moment,
this problem
it doesn't affect his daily functioning.
No impact.
First, his socialization.
or his daily behavior.
I don't want to interfere at this moment.
Yeah.
I would say, I feel like you still have some wiggle room.
and you can explore it by yourself.
For example,
I also have clients.
who applied to a prestigious American university.
he didn't do any
or any personal preparation.
He would say,
Lily, I'm going to interview a professor at NYU today.
I hope you can tell me
how to answer this question.
I will ask first.
But what do you think?
Yes.
Do you have your own ideas about this first?
Uh, uh.
So at this moment, I will do a reflection
and make a reversal.
and help him, um,
to learn to check himself.
Because I mentioned earlier that
as a humanist,
my ultimate goal is to lose this job.
Yes, let you, um
to exercise and learn this skill.
and finally you can live the life you want.
I wouldn't have cultivated this pathological attachment.
This is the main purpose of my work as a psychologist.
and the purpose of service.
aim, um, yes.
However,
Most people
once they have this service,
they will want to do many things
to avoid the process of self-exploration.
Uh.
This is the difference between a good psychologist
and unprofessional.
Well, I have two thoughts about this self-exploration.
I actually have two thoughts.
Because I think
because I think it's a particularly important thing.
And now there are fewer and fewer.
Hmm.
First, I think it's because of the internet.
The Internet is a big problem.
For me,
Nowadays, people can't analyze themselves.
or self-analyze.
Because when I open TikTok,
it tells me what I like.
I don't need to ask myself what I like.
Douyin knows what I want to buy today.
Taobao knows.
I don't need to.
Taobao will recommend me what to buy.
So there is no process.
whether I need this thing or not.
Do I like this thing or not?
Oh, do I like this person?
If I don't like it, I'll swipe a social app.
I have a lot of people I can like.
These people suddenly don't know
what I really like.
Too much information.
and too many opportunities.
I don't know what I really like.
Yes.
There is no environment to let you calm down and say
who I am,
what I really like.
and what I want.
Yes.
These apps have already outsourced this self-knowledge.
outsource.
Yes.
So,
when we first talked about loneliness,
I said I need loneliness.
I need to be alone.
Because such loneliness
actually for me,
is a process and space to understand who I am.
I need such a space.
Most people must have
You mentioned earlier
such as searching for apps,
including many distractions,
or the external world
or the outside world to recharge yourself.
and so on, all belong to a concept called
is called filling.
The state I like is called leaving blank.
Leaving space means enjoying loneliness.
I hope to leave blank space.
leaving blank space can let me know what I need.
For example,
when you are the loneliest,
who do you think of?
It means you really like this person.
or desire to be with this person.
You can only realize it through loneliness.
Oh, this person is actually constantly on my mind.
But if when you are lonely,
you can't think of this person,
it means you don't really need him.
But if you are always in a state of being filled,
you won't have the opportunity to realize
Yes.
or who I need.
or who is precious to me,
or what food I really desire.
Yes.
I might deliberately do some intentional fasting.
Oh me too.
I may have a day a week
I deliberately don't eat much, and then
Uh.
I practice mindfulness.
practicing mindfulness.
Because at this time, the food appears in my mind.
I know that's what I want to eat the most.
Yes.
What do you usually eat?
Can I ask?
I actually think that when I'm the hungriest,
I miss my mom's cooking.
And then I found that she made a kind of noodles.
She especially likes to make steamed noodles.
It's really delicious.
Actually,
I can't order takeout like this outside.
Usually, when I cook by myself,
I will make fish,
I'll make big fish and meat.
and salad.
But when I'm really hungry,
I can't think of these foods.
Uh-huh.
The same if I don't leave blank.
I wouldn't think of them.
I really like this person.
When I really leave space,
I realized that
Oh, I miss the sky.
Yeah, um.
I totally understand.
So actually, I'm saying something arrogant.
from when I was fifteen or sixteen years old until now,
I don't need to
I even deliberately make myself suffer.
I really like suffering.
Because I don't use any
distraction,
distraction, including social apps like Tinder,
Tinder,
or something like that.
There seems to be an app called My.
many clients told me it's called Bubble,
Right, including many other apps.
I don't need them.
I never go.
or go on dates like that.
The reason is that
I want to be in a relatively bitter
or even relatively
Uh.
or even lonely.
a relatively lonely state.
Because
I need to be aware of my own needs at all times.
Hmm.
I want my brain to be clear.
I don't want some cheap thrills
Hmm.
to be filled with cheap thrills.
Because in this case,
I don't know what I need.
I hope to live a ascetic life in the city
living a life of asceticism.
Including reading books by myself.
or even sometimes
I might cry because of missing someone.
In this case,
I know that
this is exactly what I want.
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
For example, if you ask me
what words to describe myself,
or what kind of food
what my favorite food is,
or what fruit
I like.
I know my own needs very well.
Because I am always observing myself.
Yes.
I don't want other sounds to distract me.
So often,
I think everyone
Look, everyone on the subway
and keep looking at their phones while walking.
Without this,
Some people may say it's just boring time.
or the time when you are in a daze.
Yes.
all eaten up by the phone.
and eaten up by the internet.
You don't have time to spend on yourself.
Yes.
For me,
this is very dangerous.
which is very irresponsible to society.
Because these people
have all lost themselves.
They don't know who they are.
The most important question is
I add a sentence.
In fact, I think being responsible to society
is too big a topic.
and the interests are too high.
Be responsible for yourself.
Because many times, if we don't fill these spaces,
leave some white space for yourself.
I'm not saying you should be like me
live a ascetic life.
Because my profession is a psychologist,
I need to be highly sensitive.
Once I'm filled,
I will feel a little numb.
I don't want to be numb.
because I need to be sensitive to the emotions of others.
and be highly sensitive to myself.
Then I can live a ascetic life.
You don't have to be like me.
but the reason why you should leave space for yourself
this self-discipline
or allowing for white space,
so that you can have many real feelings.
Not being so numb
It's responsible for yourself.
Uh-huh.
Well, it's a kind of selfishness.
Huh?
Being responsible for yourself is actually selfish.
Yes.
Because I don't allow others to easily influence me.
I don't allow these distractions
easily fill me up
or swallow me.
Uh-huh.
I know the choice I have to make.
not the recommendations from the APP,
or someone can influence me.
I make active choices by myself.
Hum hum.
I'm not saying I'm perfect.
I also play games.
and sometimes I browse Xiaohongshu.
I play all these things.
But I also understand
I realize that this is a distraction.
This is completely a waste of time for me.
and whatever.
I understand that these things are what I am doing.
I also play them.
But I try to
try to do less.
and spend more time writing diaries and drawing.
Listen to music more when I'm alone.
It feels more valuable.
Sometimes, when you scroll through Xiaohongshu,
I spend two hours on Hongshu.
What happened?
Suddenly,
You know, I just got off work and it's time to eat.
I feel like the time suddenly disappears.
Our brain
actually sometimes
need to do something interesting.
Uh.
For example, like this.
Today is my fasting day.
For example, today is my fasting day.
Because I drank coffee in the morning,
and three cups of coffee.
Yes.
maybe I won't want to eat a salad until the evening.
or make a vegetable smoothie.
Why do I do this today?
Because I did a lot yesterday
to fill my emptiness.
I ate a lot of junk food.
and then I went to work out.
The reason I mention this is that
sometimes
I also do some interesting things.
I scroll through Xiaohongshu
and play games.
I love games.
I'm a huge gamer, trust me.
But, um,
when I do this, it's my active choice.
Yes, it's my subjective choice.
because I feel bored at this time,
and I may have done some
Um.
heavy tasks.
heavy tasks.
For example,
maybe I just saw patients and did consultations the day before,
for ten hours.
The next day, I need to do some boring things.
At this time, I might play games.
Uh.
work out or talk with people on
meaningless but interesting topics.
What I do at this time is actually to fill the time.
But the next day,
I will have some compensation.
When I do something today,
may be meaningful.
The interesting thing is that
If it's your subjective choice,
you will feel much more comfortable.
Well,
Passive choice.
After doing it for two or three hours,
Interesting thing is
and then I felt very irritable.
Actually, it's because
First, you passively chose it.
Second,
your current irritable mood
comes from you feel guilty.
Yes, because you are filled with apps.
not your subjective choice.
I'm going to play this time
to create some dopamine for yourself.
This is the so-called passive dopamine.
Well, I have it too.
I must have.
Because sometimes the game is really addictive.
it's so addictive.
And sometimes,
Hmm.
When it's exaggerated, it's really addictive.
A game.
In the morning,
I play it.
And then I think
why did I do that?
After being filled with passive dopamine,
the next day you need to engage in some abstinence.
Uh.
Just like I said I ate a lot of junk food yesterday.
if I continue to eat today,
I will actually gain weight.
or I will feel very uncomfortable.
Then I have to do one thing from morning till night today,
which is abstinence.
Oral desire.
I've satisfied my oral desire too much.
Yeah, just like dopamine satisfies your brain too much.
you will feel lonely later.
It's like a withdrawal process.
the thing that you are addicted to.
whether it's electronic products,
or electronic social media,
or social media,
or food,
or some medium,
such as cigarettes,
or alcohol, you can enjoy them subjectively.
Today you just want to get drunk,
or smoke today,
but you must have some self-discipline afterwards
to enjoy and feed back to your brain.
Now I don't need it that much.
I can take the initiative to quit.
Because when you are in the passive stage,
you will feel very lonely,
and very uncomfortable.
and you can't help but want to reach out again.
and seek outside.
Because I
Recently, I'm at a Muay Thai gym.
I was chatting with a friend.
Then he said
actually I don't need a girlfriend that much.
I said, why?
He said he was so happy playing games every day.
I said, are you really happy?
I sometimes don't get it.
just playing games,
I feel like it's a big addiction.
and it's a big problem.
Then he said
You know, I've been on blind dates for two or three years.
and every one was not good.
and I feel like giving up and stop doing it.
My games make me hundreds of times happier.
嗯
Why should I keep suffering or do these things?
What's the point of blind dates?
Yeah.
Then they think that
I'd rather have no one around me.
and the game is by my side,
and my takeout is around me.
These things are so convenient.
Do I really need this?
It makes me think
he is actually a very lonely person.
He is a very empty person.
But he hasn't realized it yet.
But now society can keep you always having games,
and food and drink,
and junk food is always available.
How can we bring them back?
Can they be pulled back?
Hmm.
As I said before,
First, do they feel that they lack something?
and whether they need to be pulled back.
Our podcast actually targets
including those who are willing to listen to our podcasts
and are willing to spend time listening to today's conversation.
because they really have this need.
They really have problems.
so they are interested in this topic.
We can't force someone to
to change their lifestyle.
If he has no desire to change,
First,
and the second is
In my opinion,
really need this conversation.
then I might respond.
how to change
how to change the current situation.
I think most people's lives can be complete
depends on whether you have interesting parts in your life.
which continuously generates dopamine
which generate dopamine
and endorphins.
For example, games,
such as delicious food,
such as socializing,
such as exercise,
and so on.
In addition,
there is also a meaningful part.
which I call
maybe I abstain from sex,
or I do many things
and let myself suffer the necessary hardships.
Because I want to find meaning,
I know that the interesting part
can only bring me shallow experiences,
shallow relationships and experiences.
For people like me,
I must have that deep thing
and deep connection
to be happy.
Some people
may always stay in shallow experiences and relationships,
but for some people,
must have that deep part.
This is what I think.
our conversation today talks about loneliness,
including many people
really feel empty.
It's because they start to desire
and deep experiences.
Oh.
It's a good thing.
It's a good thing.
I haven't heard of that.
That's interesting.
Yes.
When you no longer feel that dopamine and shallow relationships
and shallow experiences can satisfy you,
You start to seek something deeper.
Well, this is a good thing.
This is a
change model in psychology.
I keep mentioning the change model before.
Uh.
This process
the process of changing the client's inner desire.
Maybe you feel lonely
or you desire to improve your relationship
or experience.
Now, at this moment,
this moment
is actually your switch point.
It's the time for you to switch.
What a great thing this is!
This is the meaning of loneliness.
Because I see many lonely people.
what is their first reaction?
Many of them don't just play these games.
they may think that
then they may think
or a cat.
and they won't be lonely.
Yeah.
They will still feel lonely.
Yeah, and then they will continue to experience.
So it actually means that
this thing has not reached enough for them.
it hasn't reached deep enough.
Yes.
It will continue to go deeper in a while.
It will continue to go deeper.
When it goes deep enough,
people will undergo a transformation.
Yeah.
So a rock bottom is needed.
this process.
It will change from seeking externally
and suddenly I want to cultivate myself.
Yeah.
Actually, I have been through it.
Actually, I also had it with the radio stations.
I said that
Two years ago, I was in Shanghai.
First came to China.
and my Chinese was not good.
and I was a little lonely.
I suddenly found a group of clubbing friends.
We clubbed three or four times a week.
We just went out and played.
and had a great time.
I also felt special about these friends.
I felt that we were a little closer.
And then,
Basically, I only hung out with these friends.
about a dozen people.
Yeah.
They all work in the same company.
the whole company withdrew from China.
I suddenly went from a place full of friends
a fun environment
to an environment where I have no friends.
I suddenly felt like, what's going on?
I suddenly had no friends.
I have no social interaction.
I don't have any other friends to rely on.
I felt completely lost.
Then I was alone in loneliness
It took a while to slowly
and then find other friends.
It was hard to start.
I think this process is particularly difficult,
and bitter.
I often felt like crying at home.
I don't know what to do.
I felt very lonely.
And I don't want to experience this process again.
So I came up with this theory.
I felt that
I need to always be surrounded by my social
circles.
I need to always have
at least have some close friends around me.
and some backup friends.
or to put it bluntly,
I felt the trauma was quite deep.
And since then,
I felt that
I need
I need
or backup friends.
I need some plans
to avoid this happening again.
In fact, I think maybe
some
a process that no one has experienced.
So they didn't realize the need for this kind of
this kind of plan.
Yes.
Yes.
At the same time, you shared this story.
I'm very grateful that you are willing to tell me.
This is actually your so-called
Uh.
as a stranger
felt the huge loneliness for the first time
and realized that I must have a backup plan.
I need a so-called
safety net.
to create a safe space for myself.
This safe space,
I think it has now moved from the external world
gradually moves to your heart.
So you dig deep inside.
which led to so many podcasts.
And including today's topic.
It's also a process of going from outside to inside.
It's the same for me.
When I experienced death at the age of eight or nine,
I realized that many things in my life
only meaningful things can bring me happiness.
Those shallow relationships and experiences
didn't make me feel happy.
God made me
very lucky.
I realized it when I was eight or nine.
after having such an experience,
I realized that
I must have deep relationships and experiences.
Some people may realize it at the age of thirty,
while others may realize it at the age of forty.
Well, the early experience
brought me such a
lucky
opportunity is that I can become a psychologist.
At the age of twenty, I realized that
the career direction of my life
to be a psychologist.
psychologist.
Some people may realize it in their thirties.
and then realize
what kind of change I need to make in my life
or a new purpose.
a new purpose that I need to serve.
Including you, you realized that
Oh, when I lived in China,
as an ABC,
what kind of plan I need to make
to feel safe.
This is for your life,
you have made some defenses and plans in advance.
But do you think it's good for an eight or nine-year-old
is a good thing?
Sometimes I think this kind of
this kind of drama
happens so early.
Sometimes, um,
you lose a little bit
the happiness of a child.
happiness.
Your childhood
happiness
and innocence
may be gone in an instant.
I may have a bold
a bold idea.
This is in many different conversations
or consultation.
and I always answer like this.
This is my deep thinking about
whether it is a good thing
or how to classify good and bad things in this world.
I have had a deep thought about it.
I think
there are no so-called bad things in this world.
Ha ha ha.
Maybe I'm a bit too
a bit too
In some cases,
a little too optimistic.
Yes.
I don't have this classification of black and white.
嗯
I don't think there are any so-called bad things in this world.
Because even if it is a bad thing,
but if you can handle it,
it can become a good thing.
This is my idol.
I'm very lucky.
When I was studying psychology,
the master I followed.
Brad.
He.
He is like a father and a teacher.
He is a very famous psychologist in the US.
His sister also did a postdoc at Harvard,
and then became a professor.
He is very good at treating psychological
and mental patients with intractable diseases.
They are both very powerful.
They both have a great influence on me.
They both give me the feeling that
there are no bad things in this world.
as long as you can handle it,
can turn into good things.
Well,
God must have given me such a blow
or an experience.
When I was eight or nine years old,
I caught it.
I caught it.
它
it made me find my career direction and meaning in life
and meaning of life.
then it's a good thing.
Uh.
If you are listening to this podcast now
are experiencing something bad,
If you are willing,
give me a chance as a psychologist,
you can come to me,
I can accompany you to turn it into a good thing.
那
If you want to feel lonely from this loneliness
from this moment,
to face some of your emotions,
then this podcast is also good for you.
Because you have found
the direction of what I should do next.
including the three coping strategies we discussed earlier.
Maybe you start to try.
Oh, loneliness is a good thing.
and it's also a good starting point.
But some people may feel that
or listen to this podcast,
they will feel that after listening to you,
and feel more lonely.
Then this podcast or this conversation
is a bad thing for you.
Right, so so-called good or bad things
it depends on whether you can handle it.
Second, it's too subjective.
Yeah.
It's too subjective.
Yes, most things are in a gray area.
This level has both black and white.
But most things are gray.
I think there must be good and bad things.
Personally, I think
there must be a relative good or bad.
I'm okay with this.
Yes.
I agree with this.
Then there is a point mentioned earlier.
You said whether I have lost the happiness of childhood.
I seem to be seeking deeper relationships in many things.
It's not like that.
I actually think
I actually cherish those shallow pleasures more.
Because I think these shallow pleasures
and shallow relationships can go deeper.
Well, it depends on
whether I want to turn it into a deep experience.
Yeah.
Instead, I will cherish these shallow pleasures more.
For example,
For example,
we are recording a podcast today.
I can
just record a podcast.
just a conversation.
I can also because of our first cooperation
and I can see it as a
maybe it will go in a good direction.
a long-term friendship or relationship.
and I cherish it.
Because of my childhood experiences,
I value every encounter
every encounter
and every experience, I value them.
I cherish and focus on them.
It can develop in a good direction.
Yeah.
It didn't make me lose the previous relationship
or previous experiences.
Uh-huh.
I just think my parents often told me that
You grow up too fast.
sometimes it's better to slow down.
Um.
Maybe it's me,
because I'm the older brother.
I might have some experience of taking care of my sister.
Sometimes you grow up too fast.
You don't.
that is, you can be a child for a long time
process.
Then maybe that's why
I try to
be more like a kid.
I can see things more simply,
and be happier.
I don't need to
think too deeply.
Sometimes,
I hope that
there are some things
I sometimes just like it on the surface.
I just like it on the surface.
Yes.
I think sometimes it's not good to think too deeply.
Ha ha ha.
Meaningful and interesting are not contradictory.
I can often maintain an interesting state,
and then seek out something interesting.
But when I need it to be meaningful,
I can draw in the meaning.
嗯
I can summon the meaningful thing.
Many people
they will turn it into a conflicting thing.
Like when you might tell me about this thing,
you would hope you're relatively chill, right?
It's because you give the meaningful thing
or you give it that caring thing.
or carefree thing.
You make it opposite to carefree.
It doesn't have to be opposite.
It may really just
more meaning to it, making it more fun.
Maybe.
Hmm.
I'm not sure about this.
But I can understand this point.
Hmm.
I think many children nowadays
Hmm.
especially the current children,
they are exposed to too many things.
As I said before,
Sometimes they lose their childhood.
Because they have things like TikTok
or now
and these apps, they are exposed to too much too fast.
Huh?
Am I just too old
and I feel that the new generation of friends
have a lot of problems.
Actually, they are all fine.
This is my last question.
Okay.
I think first of all, your question shows that
you are actually a humanist.
Of course you care about the young kids.
Of course, yeah.
You care about their future.
You really care.
Of course.
you care about them.
And from your description, I feel that
If you have children in the future,
if one day you want children,
including your little sister.
your little sister.
In fact, you care about their health.
Of course.
you hope they can keep relatively simple and innocent.
Second,
you will do your best to maintain this thing.
This is a particularly good thing.
I will appreciate this trait.
This is the first thing I want to share.
The second thing I want to say is
don't worry too much.
Well, because many things
as Hegel said,
existence is meaning.
Uh.
What these children need to do
is actually for parents to guide them
and clear up the confusion.
For example,
For example,
if I have a child in the future,
or even some of my current clients
and they have children,
they won't let their children
expose them to social media before the age of five.
or some children
whose parents are stricter.
before the age of five,
they won't eat sugar.
Yeah.
I've heard that too.
You don't need to eat sugar.
because many foods you eat already contain sugar.
Including the starch you eat,
contains a lot of sugar.
I think this choice needs to be made by parents.
Parents do it for their children.
I have a child.
I might also hope that he doesn't eat sugar before six.
This thing.
and not to touch candy.
但是
It can absorb sugar from many different foods.
For example, fruits have fructose.
I may not be good at it.
I hope my child will be exposed to social media.
before he can't clear up the chaos brought by social media.
before.
So now many children
when their personal choice ability
when they are in a dilemma,
or limited time,
parents should help them make choices.
Yeah.
The function of a psychologist is
there may be some choices that are not the best,
but after they have made a choice,
try to help them deal with the consequences.
Uh-huh.
Or I teach him a skill
and let him learn.
Since they have already made the choice
the choice of exposure to social media.
how to clear up the chaos brought by social media.
and then find the main theme of life again.
Huh.
Because I don't know.
have you listened to my conversation with Leon?
Yeah.
I feel that
today's children really don't know what to choose.
Well, their parents, as you said,
they really care about it.
their parents really care about
But every time they find that
the kids prefer not to play jiu-jitsu,
swimming, rock climbing,
Every time the child comes home,
or see where their parents' phones are
or iPad,
which are theirs.
their favorite things
they all become these electronic things.
not care about
I played with these friends for
one hour of jiu-jitsu.
I found a new friend.
Yes.
None of these can compare to
the happiness that iPad can bring them.
They are very young,
and they may be addicted even in their teens.
They can't judge it themselves.
In fact, if you cultivate your social circle,
and the hobbies of your friends.
Hmm.
or whatever.
you will be happier.
They only see that when I get home,
I can watch cartoons.
what I can watch
or what games I play.
They care more about these.
not wow.
I had a great time playing with that friend.
and I seem to have learned a subjugation,
or a new climbing move.
They don't care about these things that much.
They care more about that I'm going home
and play with my phone and iPad.
Well, actually, when you're telling me what you've learned,
including when you review
I can see
you are actually recalling some of your childhood experiences.
Yeah.
Those are very
which are actually relatively speaking
very deep happiness.
These belong to deep relationships
Why?
Because it's not instant gratification.
It's not about instant gratification.
Why is instant gratification
Including these electronic products,
are also like candy for us adults.
and we also desire them very much.
because it can quickly give you dopamine
and endorphins.
This instant gratification
which is immediate pleasure and satisfaction.
is the root cause of loneliness
and predicament.
Well, we are too eager
the instant gratification that instant pleasure brings.
嗯
I can't pursue something a little harder
or something that takes longer.
Hmm.
This is why
sometimes I deliberately create difficulties for myself.
Like being hungry.
or abstinence.
or create a space for myself
to allow me to be alone.
Because it makes me feel like I can slow down.
Uh, playing with phones
or play with electronic products.
Whether it's a child
or adults,
are all for instant gratification.
Instant candy.
instant dopamine,
and endorphins.
Parents need to prevent children from always
to delay getting instant gratification.
this satisfaction.
The difficult point is that
When I saw my parents fall in love,
they actually only had three or four options.
they might go to America at that time,
and there were only three or four Chinese around them.
So the people who can get married
there were only a few people.
So they will try to change themselves
to be the one they like.
They would think that I'm not
I'm not good enough.
and I need to improve
to make this person like me more.
Yes.
I find that our generation is more
If the other person likes me,
I don't need to change.
I am perfect.
I don't need to change.
Then there are many opportunities.
Because I have a phone,
so I can definitely find the one who likes me the most.
the me who doesn't need to change.
Hmm.
It's the opposite of their generation.
They need to become better.
I need to improve.
But now children don't need to improve.
like me like I am right now.
this.
I think this mentality is
wrong.
But you can't teach them.
Because they do feel that
there are so many opportunities,
and so many choices.
Because there are indeed so many things to browse on phones.
I can buy anything on Taobao.
I can find anyone on the app.
This feeling
in your mind,
I don't need to change.
There are so many people chasing me.
and so many people are chatting with me.
Why do I need to change?
There must be someone who likes me.
This environment is so different.
Well, you're getting older.
You can't teach the younger generation.
Because their experience is
completely different.
It's completely different.
Yes, the experience is different.
But the rules of the universe
and the world's operating principles
won't change because of the change of the era.
To be honest,
When you talk about your parents,
I also think of my parents.
This is actually a process of active choice.
For the people I love,
or for something I like,
or for the purpose of serving others,
to change myself.
to make myself more altruistic
and more meaningful.
This is deep relationship.
Someone will like me.
When you hear this sentence,
you actually don't realize that you have such a mindset.
and have such a mentality.
including
Even if I feel lonely,
there will always be someone who will meet my needs.
There will always be something to satisfy me.
This is actually
putting yourself in a position of being chosen.
my choice actually decreases.
Oh.
When I actively seek information,
or I actively create meaning,
or I desire a deep relationship,
So,
when I'm willing to pay for this deep relationship,
I'm actually in a state of choosing the other person.
I have more initiative.
I wait for some apps to satisfy me.
I feel lonely,
So I long for new friends,
or I desire someone
who will like me as I am.
just because I am who I am.
It's a desire for unconditional satisfaction
and unconditionally enjoy the moment.
It's putting yourself in a passive state.
The so-called loneliness.
To put it bluntly,
To sum up,
I dare to talk about this topic now.
because you have asked this question.
I think the key point is that
When you feel lonely,
but you don't take the initiative to do anything
to solve any negative emotions,
including the feeling of loneliness,
you are in a state of scarcity
and passive state.
Hmm.
Be proactive.
has nothing to do with the number of options you have.
Um.
Active choices will give you more options.
Um.
People who take the initiative to choose and solve problems
only make you
Um.
infinite resources.
Um.
Um.
As an
I will tell you that
many people will
many people will answer you.
I'm an introvert.
I'm not good at taking the initiative.
Actually, I
I shouldn't take the initiative.
because I'm an introvert.
I don't know how to take the initiative.
Well, actually, as an introvert,
If you have the same idea as Arthur,
and Arthur,
actually you have already
you may not realize it yourself,
but your
subconscious iceberg
is your subconscious iceberg,
you have already started to break the ice.
Because you are listening to our podcast now.
you are listening to our conversation.
You are listening to our boring
or seeking for deep meaning.
You're not on Xiaohongshu.
or playing games.
Why are you listening to this conversation?
Because you are listening to this conversation,
You spend time on this conversation,
it proves that you are seeking a solution.
It means you're seeking a solution.
At this moment, you could have eaten something delicious
or get some dopamine.
You didn't eat.
Well, you are not the person you imagined.
You are a very sad person.
I don't know how to solve it.
You are not that person anymore.
To be blunt,
Before you listened to this podcast,
maybe you were that kind of person.
When you heard this,
you have broken the ice.
If you take one more step,
you might be able to get away from that loneliness.
I hope so.
I really hope
this can change some people's views on this.
this.
Because
For example, my friends around me
I also have a hard time convincing them
to be more proactive
to go out and find something you like.
not necessarily people.
but actively look for things you like.
what you like to eat,
Instead of just passively
You eat whatever others want you to eat.
or where you go when someone pushes you.
you go there.
Um.
It's okay, friends.
and friends,
don't feel pressured when you're listening to this podcast.
You know all the friends out there
whoever is paying attention to us
please don't feel pressured.
When you are ready,
you can join us anytime.
But before you are ready,
don't feel
you know this is like the moment
I need to make a decision about whether
whether I want to move forward or be more initiating.
That is,
you're not ready to take the initiative,
Just fly for a while.
Hang in there.
Uh-huh.
Next time you feel lonely again,
come back to our podcast
and listen again.
Maybe at that moment, you will be ready to do something
Do something about it.
嗯
Do something to make you feel less lonely.
We'll be here waiting for you anytime.
This podcast will always be here.
forever.
Yeah, we'll be here.
Okay, and then.
If you really want to find me,
how can you find me?
You have your practice.
How to find me?
Just add my WeChat.
And then,
I'll ask the police to attach my WeChat to this.
Yes.
below.
Do you have any Xiaohongshu or
Bilibili or something?
I'm doing recently.
Yes, I am. Great.
I will put these in the adjective section.
Okay, everyone.
I hope you enjoyed it.
Bye bye.
That was great.