Ep. 46: Multi-Passionate OTs Creating Work They Love, One Layer at a Time with Guests, Áine O'Dea & Jen Trzeciak

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I'd love to see OTs moving beyond thatneed to justify continuously what we do.
I feel as OTs we're so concerned aboutproving our worth rather than just knowing
that what we do has value and owning it.
I'm not apologizing for it.

(00:21):
I'd love for every OT to boldly holdthat occupational therapist title first
to say I am an occupational therapist.
I might have other hats, butfirst and foremost, I'm an OT
without having to launch into anexplanation of what that means.
But that's okay.
so I'd love to see us being brave andjust moving past those conversations that

(00:41):
seems to have been going on for years asto how do you explain what we do and how
do you justify it and how do you prove it?
Like we've done that lads,we just need to own it.
Everybody else can catch up, but we justneed to occupy that space where we are
occupational therapist and that's okay.
The proof is in the pudding, right?
So often the people who have hadexposure to occupational therapy

(01:02):
and know it was occupationaltherapy are like, yes, I get it.
sometimes doing it or illustrating howwe do it, rather than explaining models
that we end up with people with eyes glazeover at the, by the buffet at the party.
You are listening to The BRAVEOT Podcast with me, Carlyn Neek.
This podcast is all about empoweringoccupational therapists to step up,

(01:25):
level up, blaze some trails, and maybeengage in a little conscious rebellion
in service of our profession, ourclients, our work, our businesses,
and living our mission wholeheartedly.
We are all about keeping it real,doing hard things, un hustling, being
curious, exploring, growing throughour challenges, and finding joy,

(01:45):
fulfillment, and vitality as we do.
So really, we're OTingourselves and each other.
I hope you love this episode.
I'm talking today with two Irish OTs whoare living proof that you don't need to
have your entire career path all figuredout to build something meaningful.
Áine O'Dea and Jen host the IrishOccupational Therapy Podcast and

(02:08):
they've created diverse and interestingpractices by embracing their
multi-passionate neurodivergent brainsand figuring things out as they go.
Áine said she started her businessbecause I don't really know what
else to do, and now she's thrivingmentoring other OT business owners
and running her own private practice.
Jen shares the moment when she feltfrustrated with her daughter for

(02:31):
pulling her away from her work, andthat became the catalyst for change, to
find more alignment with her values andpriorities and the way she's working.
These aren't OTs who mapped it out.
There are people who pivoted aftercar crashes, felt like imposters
Starting their podcast and learned to workwith their brains instead of against them.
We're going to talk aboutclinical supervision as real

(02:54):
professional development.
How to start a practice without all theoverwhelm and why getting help might be
the bravest thing you can do if you'refeeling scattered, isolated, or like you
should have it more figured out by now.
This conversation is for you.
This episode is brought to youby Jane, a clinic management
software built to help you focuson what matters most ,your clients.

(03:15):
Building rapport with your clients isimportant during appointments, and that
can be challenging when you're also tryingto take timely and detailed documentation.
That's why Jane built AI Scribe,my new favorite tool, to help you
document important informationwithout the manual note taking.
Yeah, I said it.
No manual note taking.
It's pretty awesome.
I've been using it for a whilenow and it's been the thing that

(03:38):
I've wanted my whole career.
This feature transforms your sessionrecordings into chart entries.
All you have to do is review yournotes, sign the chart, and you're done.
And since security is top priorityat Jane, AI Scribe was built
securely in house to be fullyHIPAA and PIPIDA compliant.
With a tool you can trust, janehelps you spend more time on your
client care to learn more abouthow Jane can help you change the

(04:01):
way you feel about documentation,head to meet.jane.app/documentation
to book a demo or sign up.
And if you're ready to go, don't forgetto use my code VITALITY for a one month
grace period on your new Jane account.
Welcome, Jen and Áine.
It's really nice to have youhere on The BRAVE OT Podcast.

(04:22):
Hi Carlyn.
Thanks so much for having us inCanada this time rather than Ireland.
For those listeners hearingthis, I recorded, as a guest
on the Irish OccupationalTherapy Podcast just last week.
Who knows when all ofthese things come out.
but, it was fun to do areciprocal conversation and just
after I traveled to Ireland.

(04:43):
it's lovely to be here, Carlyn.
Thank you.
could I ask you each to tell usa little bit about what you do?
Do you wanna go first, Jen?
Yeah, absolutely.
my background is I'm a mentalhealth occupational therapist.
I've been an OT for 25 years now.
I know I don't look good,but I have, I'm also a mom.

(05:06):
I've got three teenage girl, twoteenagers and one 10-year-old girls.
and I work, delivering occupationaltherapy interventions to, people.
in my private practice, Isupervise other clinicians in,
both public and private settings.
And I also work with Áine.
We're very involved in supportingoccupational therapists and other

(05:27):
clinicians actually to considerprivate practice as an option.
So how to set up in private practice, howto sustain yourself in private practice.
So myself and ONA have beenworking together probably
for the past four years now.
On that, I'd say ona.
Yeah,
it was during COVID when we didthe first one, yeah, absolutely.
Great.

(05:47):
I love that.
Thank you.
And Áine, please tell us alittle bit about your work.
So like Jane, I also do a complete mix.
Yeah.
So my background is I'm an occupationaltherapist and now I predominantly
work weight health professionals andpeople outside the health industry.
So I provide supervisionfor occupational therapists.

(06:10):
and that's a real wide variance, of peoplewho come to me, different backgrounds.
My background is that I have a PhD,so I have a real interest in research,
real interest in children, adolescents,and adult health and wellbeing.
So clinical supervision is onepiece of the business that I've
been doing for a long time.
Then the other strand of thebusiness is I provide coaching.

(06:33):
So I went back and I did, occupationalperformance coaching training myself and
carried on and became, I'm now a trainer,an occupational performance coach trainer,
but I also have a postgraduate diplomain business and executive coaching.
So I provide coaching for.
I would say predominantly healthprofessionals, but I do have some clients

(06:57):
who would be outside the health industry.
Engineers seem to like my style.
I think that kind of like science-based.
I tend to attract a lot of engineers andthey just people in the health industry.
So coaching is another piece.
Supporting people in their practice andin business in their professional life.
And then, like with Jensaid, then, that piece.

(07:17):
Then the other strand is around thejoint work that Jen and I have done
around actually being a privatepractitioner, the pragmatics of it.
How do you set up, what do youneed to do to resource yourself?
So we've done lots of different,trainings together around that.
And we'll tell you more aboutthe ones that are coming up.

(07:37):
Awesome.
Now in North America, we.
the term supervision is a littleless familiar than how I hear it in
the uk, in Ireland, in Australia.
Can you frame that for, thoselisteners who might not be
as familiar with that model?

(07:58):
in Ireland, what we cl classify asclinical supervision is, and the p and
mandatory competency in Ireland in theUK for your professional registration
to qualify as an OT is that you haveto engage in reflective practice.
Okay.
And I'm sure that's the same inCanada, but one way to do that

(08:21):
is to reflect in supervision.
So in clinical supervision, there arethree core objectives, and the first one
is to safeguard yourself professionally.
And also it's a publicsafeguard mechanism.
So to ensure that you're actuallyworking, reflect on that you are
working in line with your professionalstandards and responsibilities.

(08:44):
The other core objective of clinicalsupervision is to support the
supervisees or the clinicians, mentalhealth and wellbeing to make sure
that we are well so that we can work.
And that's also professional competency.
And the third one then is thatwe're staying up to date with
professional knowledge and practice.
So clinical supervision is aforum or a means to do that.

(09:09):
Obviously we can do each oneof those pieces on our own.
Clinical supervision provides thestructure to do it, and there's
lots of different frameworks aroundit and like models that we can do.
So I suppose it's somethingthat I'm really interested in.
It's interesting inAustralia it's different.
I run a, I deliver a course onsupervision and I delivered it last

(09:31):
year for z my, Alicia Ward, hercompany, and I'm delivering it again
next week, starting in Australia.
So it's definitely something that is,I think, becoming more and more at
the forefront of people's awarenessto support themselves in practice.
Like I was just in Australia for theOT conference and I picked up a great

(09:52):
resource, actually this, guiding goodpractice, a snapshot of OT, Australia's
new professional practice resources.
And in there was a wholesection on supervision and I was
really keen to, to read more.
'cause I think about the services Ioffer to OTs, mainly OT business owners.
But this idea of supporting youin navigating your business.

(10:14):
Your career yourself, your life,like all of the things, all of
the emotions that come with it.
How are we finding that fulfillment?
How are we caring for ourselves?
How are we watching out for burnout?
And it's interesting because here in NorthAmerica, we're less likely to use the
term supervision for that type of support.
We might talk about mentorshipor something, but I find a lot of

(10:35):
people are looking for those CEUs.
and I love these models that I'm hearingfrom, other places of supervision
being a, an established framework.
In fact, a requirement to dothat intersection of personal
and professional development.
Really important.
And I think that looking at the differentkinds of models is really helpful because

(10:57):
depending on the stage of career you'reat, you can look at different things.
I, use a lot the seven I model, which is,looks at you as a health professional and
your client and the relationship betweenthe two of you and then your relationship
as a supervisor with your, clinician,the parallel process that can happen
within that relationship and with thewider context in which you're working in.

(11:20):
So it helps us really look at theinterventions that we're providing
through lots of different lenses,and make sense of what might
be going on in, in a session.
Because I think sometimes you're inthe session and you're engaged with
it, but actually being able to stepout of it afterwards and look back
and understand all the elements ofwhat was happening is really useful.
So having a framework to hangthat on I think is really nice.

(11:42):
I love that.
So in Ireland are.
OTs tending to go out and seekout and pay for supervision.
Is that a pretty typical thingthat you would plan for as an OT?
Yeah, and you have to, so as part of ourregistration, requires that we have, it
doesn't specify how much supervision, butit does specify that we need that space.
And so I suppose in when people areworking in public health services,

(12:05):
there would be, initially, I supposepeople would be meeting maybe once every
couple of weeks or every month as a new.
Grad.
and typically it would be every4, 6, 8 weeks that people would be
setting aside time to, to focus andto have clinical supervision with, a
colleague, usually at a different grade.
and then for everybody in privatepractice, certainly ourselves, and

(12:26):
everyone I know, we, we would then seekour own clinical supervision, which
might be a little bit separate to thebusiness support because that's also,
the mentorship is also important, butthat can come from anybody outside the
discipline as well as in the discipline.
Whereas clinical supervision is generallydone with somebody within your own
discipline or who's very familiar withthe frameworks that, that you would use.

(12:47):
and it's incredibly helpful, just tohave that space to, to focus on your
practice, and what's going on for you.
Yeah.
I
love that.
Yeah.
Thank you for explaining that.
And if it's an occupational therapistthat you might be providing supervision
for versus coaching or mentorship,how would you define the difference?
So that's the piece then of, soin Ireland and in the uk Yeah.

(13:12):
Both governments have policiesaround supervision for
allied health professionals.
And if you're working publicly,you have to align with that and
private practitioners will as well.
So I suppose in coaching, it isall about that the client comes and
they set their own agenda, you know?

(13:33):
There is a slight difference insupervision because in supervision,
and you will, so you'll see lots ofsimilarities in coaching and supervision.
We always contract to go,what are we signing up for?
So the really important piece is whenyou see the differences that when
you take somebody on as a clinicalsupervisor and you are contracting
really clearly with them, and wehave to meet these core objectives.

(13:57):
So I may ask you questions about themand if I have any concerns about how you
practice, I'll say that to you and I'lltalk to you about it and I'll mention it.
But I have a legal and an ethicalresponsibility that if I have any
concerns about your wellbeing in orderto work safely or your practice, be

(14:17):
it publicly or professionally, as inthat it's going to impact the public.
Or it's going to impact the profession.
I have to report that to Koru,which is our health regulator.
So that's legislation.
So when you take somebody on as aclinical supervisee, you take it on
with a lot of legal responsibility.

(14:37):
And I think it's really importantto be aware of that because if
a member of the public puts acomplaint in about a supervisee.
And I've certainly supported peoplethrough this in my supervision practice.
If they put a complaint in, thatwill go to Coru and CORU will
then evaluate and work through it.
And you may be asked as the supervisor tocomplete a supervisory practice report.

(15:01):
You may also be called to giveevidence in court with regard to that
supervisee that you're working with.
So you have to follow thatpiece around due diligence.
You've got vicarious liability orindirect liability 'cause you knew
about it or you withheld information.
So you have to treat your role as aclinical supervisor the exact same

(15:22):
as you would treat your role of yourprofessional standards when you're
working with any member of the public.
think that's a hugely differentiatingcharacteristic to coaching.
Because when you're coachingsomebody, we're not bound by this
professional standard of Practicestandards of, and if you do not
work in line with your professionalregistration, you can lose it.

(15:44):
Yeah.
So the stakes are high.
It also means that as a clinic,sorry, I'm talking a lot here.
I'm gonna let Jen interrupt.
no, you're absolutely right.
But it also means too, a clinicalsupervisor, and I would see this for
both Jen and I, we would be involved in alot of our own professional development.
So we talk about different coursesand what do you think of that one?
And would you go on this?

(16:04):
And because you have to stay up to datewith your knowledge in your practice.
You can't be a supervisor and sitback and think, oh yeah, sure.
I'll just help them reflect.
You've actually got to help them tomeet those three core objectives.
So that's why you can't just picka reflective practice framework.
It's like with James talkingabout the seven I model, you have

(16:24):
to look at this from all angles.
is your practice having an impact becauseof some, the way you look at things?
You're identifying gaps potentially.
Whereas I guess with coaching,you're not necess well, you might be.
but I suppose you're more directly askingthose specific questions to hone in and
really explore is there something herethat might be missing or that might be

(16:46):
something that we really need to work onor that we need to develop as a clinician.
and I guess we all havethose blind spots, don't we?
you don't know what you don'tknow particularly early out,
but all the way through.
and, practice is changing, evidence ischanging and, it can be challenging to
keep up to date, with those changes.
So supervision is a mechanism then tomake sure you know that you're talking

(17:07):
through somebody to see, are you spotting,what you're not doing or what you could
be doing differently or evolving yourpractice as you develop as a clinician.
I think that's really important becausethe, and I find in private practice we
can really get into our own little silo,our own groove and not have a lot of
contact with other professionals or otherOTs and really not see what we don't see.

(17:31):
And, can get spin out and get stuckon a worry that if you were in an
office, you might just talk to theOT at coffee break and go, oh, I
didn't think about it that way.
Like a 15 degree pivot andit looks entirely different.
And, so being intentional aboutseeking out reflection, communication,
connection with others who are doingmaybe similar things, maybe something

(17:54):
different, but somebody to bounce theseideas around with so you can, that,
that helps highlight where you might bestuck in your thinking a little bit or
limited in your knowledge or awareness.
I think it's, it takes so much moreeffort to find things out when you're
working, in a small practice or as a soloclinician, things don't get handed to you.
if you're working in public healthservices, you get a memo from HR

(18:17):
or from somebody higher up thatsays, oh, did you know this new
piece of legislation came in?
Or did you know, you have to dothis training and it's fed to you.
It's easy, but then when you'rea standalone clinician, it,
nobody's telling you that.
So you have to go out and seek itout, which is so much more effortful.
and there's the riskof things being missed.
So I think it's really important tohave that person in the profession

(18:39):
who you can share, or a group.
we've got some really nice networkshere, of private practitioners who are
WhatsApp threads or whatever, and we'remaking sure that everybody is staying up
to date and is aware of what's going on.
Yeah,
that's really good.
Do you know when you say that, Jen,you know what resonated with me there
as well is there's all the, like thelegal stuff that changes, that it's

(19:00):
lovely to have a safe space that youcan ask a supervisor or if you didn't
know about it that like, 'cause you'vegot that, there's such a trust piece
within that supervision relationship.
But it's the same with evidenceor professional knowledge.
Like we all know you pick up any paperand they'll talk about the knowledge to
practice gap and it's about 18 years.

(19:20):
So if it was a new mental healthtreatment and like I know Jane
works in mental health and I knowshe is brilliant on all of that
knowledge of what's topical, what'scurrent, what's most evidence-based.
But when you think about that,then supervision is a real place of
where we support clinicians to dothat because we often go on courses

(19:41):
and yeah, it's really interesting.
But then where it doesn't matterwhether you public or private, where
do you have this space to think about?
But how am I gonna genuinelyactually do this in practice?
Which client will I start with?
How much of this intervention can I try?
as in, do I feel competent to try with?
How much time have I got to practicethis new skill or technique or approach?

(20:04):
Does this match the client's needs?
So it works both ways.
Sometimes we come back from acourse and we're trying it on
everybody 'cause it's our new toy.
Yeah.
Or vice versa.
We come back and we just don't have time.
So we're like, oh my god.
That was course was amazing, but I justnever got around to actually embedding it.
So it really helps with knowledgetranslation, I think as well.

(20:24):
Yeah.
And integration.
Yeah, integration intoyour practice versus Yeah.
Passive learning.
stick that on a shelf with, with theother courses you took, er Yeah, totally.
We've all got our folders.
Yeah.
I'm a bit curious, something I noticedas I read, as I listened to you, each
de describe your work and read throughyour profiles and, something that was

(20:46):
really familiar is all of us are doinga smattering of different types of work.
We've got this real, these really diverse,practices, doing some of this and doing
some of that and doing some of that.
And I'm curious, what led you to workingin this way and maybe we can all share
how we ended up here, doing this,very interesting and variable work.

(21:08):
I've always been drawn to newand emerging areas of practice.
So when I looked back over my CV as itwere, I started, in kind of mainstream,
mental health wards and that kindof thing, and then I went early.
Intervention in psychosis was a new thing.
I was one of the first goinginto that in my NHS trust.

(21:31):
And then when there was, a new kindof supporting people from welfare
into employment, I, that was newand shiny, so I was drawn to that.
And I really my oldest daughter has gotADHD suspect I've got an ADHD brain.
Certainly I like, moving onto newthings and once I've got something
established, once I've set somethingup and I'm kinda running with it,

(21:52):
I'm kinda like, okay, what's next?
What's now?
I always valued the work I was doing,but when it felt the same, when I didn't
have a kind of a passion project or abid on the side that kind of kept me
afloat, I started to drown or to sink.
So I need that variety, within,within my work to help me deal
with the less interesting, the morekind of standard day-to-day work.

(22:15):
I so relate.
Yes, absolutely.
I totally get that.
How about you, Áine?
Totally relate to what Jen is saying.
Yeah, I worked in the UK for a good numberof years and did pretty much every, that's
why I say I'm an occupational therapist.
I don't even try and brand anymore,but it, so I did everything Carlyn, I
did forensic mental health, I did adultneurology, hen therapy, community mental

(22:40):
health, early intervention for youngpeople to prevent hospital admission for
men with mental health, and move loads.
But I also thought it was justbecause, oh, I just love moving,
in two years and I was moved on.
and then I moved back to Irelandand hadn't seen the pattern
of my brain at that point.
And.

(23:01):
Took the only job really thatwas available, if I'm honest, the
only jobs available in the areathat I was in children's health.
So working, I took a job workingwith babies to five year olds.
I'd never seen a baby.
I had seen EV probablyall the other populations.
So I've always moved a lot and loved that.
But I did, when I came back, Ilove children's health, mental

(23:23):
health, adult health and wellbeing.
But then I had a car crash and thatreally changed the trajectory of my
career because I was outta work forabout the bones of three years and I
had a lot of therapy myself, and theycouldn't go back to anything physical.
And I had huge cognitive fatigueas well as physical fatigue.

(23:46):
So that really shifted what I wasdoing and went down an academic route
thinking I would go into academia.
And did a master's, did aPhD. Loved both of them.
Absolutely loved it.
And realized.
I don't wanna go into academia,so I have an expensive learning.
But I did, I love the PhD. So afterthe PhD I finished just at the end

(24:08):
of COVID or kind of mid COVID 2020.
and at that, and then I set up in businessmyself because really, if I'm honest, I
set up in business because I was like,I don't really know what else to do.
And
there isn't the job that I seethat I like, that I want to do.
So let's give it a go.
Very interesting.
Yeah.
And I love that path of I thinkeducation is never a waste, right?

(24:31):
And you gained a lot in the processand learned a lot in, of outside stuff,
but also expanded your way of thinking.
and the outcome wasn't exactlywhat you thought it would be.
And, but learning for the sakeof learning is super exciting,
paying a lot of money for it.
Also, another thing,
yeah, it's, and I think it'sone of those things that like,

(24:52):
I genuinely have no regrets.
I loved the PhD because it wasin population health and health
services research, so I was thefirst OT in Ireland to do it.
It was so different.
and there was a lot of healtheconomics, population health in it.
So really did learn.
But I also think on, gosh.

(25:13):
Like it probably was the right thing.
'cause I'm still working in OTin a different way and I wasn't
ready to let go any of that.
But for me, I think the biglearning was that piece around
knowing what I didn't want anymore.
Like academia is amazing,but it's a hard career.
You work really hard in academia.

(25:33):
To publish, to teach, and all thoseother academic responsibilities.
And for me, I think I, after COVID,it was like, I have worked so hard
for the last four years and life hadchanged so much with a lot of family
grief and lost during that time thatit was like, I don't wanna do that.

(25:54):
I don't wanna work a 50 hour week andtry and making, it just felt yeah.
Always striving.
Yeah.
And I've got that brain that like, I wouldcompete hard, Give me a challenge, and by
gosh, will I persist until I achieve it?
So I knew it would be a bad match for me.

(26:17):
COVID was great though, wasn'tit, for that kind of reflection.
And that's, you know, I set upduring or just after COVID as well.
but I think when I knew I needed acareer change was, I used to work
for, not a career change, sorry,a career change of direction.
I used to work for, a mentalhealth service for young people.

(26:37):
And, I was not doing huge amounts of work.
I was managing the team, butit was very invested in it.
And then same as yourself on you.
I give a hundred percent.
And I got a call in work to say mydaughter, one of my daughters at the time
had come home from school with a panicattack and my initial kind of feeling...
and I remember getting so upset aboutthis afterwards, but I, my initial

(27:02):
feeling was frustration with her that,oh my gosh, pulling me away from work.
And we were in the middle of stuff and Iwas so busy and I was driving thinking,
oh my goodness, what has happened here?
You know, I have compassion everyday in my work for the young people I
work with who are, similar age to mydaughter, and I give them everything.
And then when I get pulled away fromthat work from my own family, I was

(27:22):
feeling this anger or resentmentand I was like, that's not right.
I need to change, my trajectory herebecause, where are my priorities lying?
So I think sometimes trying to getthat balance when we give so much of
ourselves in the work that we do cantake away and we have to take a step
back and reevaluate and rebalance.
And I think that kind of, it didn'thappen straight away, but it did

(27:45):
send me down the route of there hasto be an alternative to what I was
doing in, in the health service.
Yes.
That makes so much sense.
I can relate to, you guys in having that.
There was that inner drive that I'malso multi-passionate and I have ADHD
and I didn't know that until my sonwas diagnosed well into my career.

(28:09):
And I think I had my private practiceon the side at that point, but we still
had a part-time job and was doing alittle bit of this, little bit of that.
And, ultimately, yeah, I ended upcreating and adapting and adjusting.
And every so often I do a reflection.
What's, what do I love about my work?
Where is it feeling a little bit abrasiveor not quite fitting or not quite

(28:29):
fitting the stage that my family's at?
and what might I do?
How can I use these skills or do alittle bit less of the things that
drain me and a little bit more of thethings that energize and excite me,
which is an ongoing moving target.
Throw in a pandemic and some perimenopauseand a kid with a type one diabetes

(28:49):
diagnosis, and there, there's justsort of this, res resilience isn't
the adaptability, I think that comeswith having our own businesses.
And not to say it's easy to just whipup a pivot There's a lot of effort
and reflection and trial and errorand, public experimentation that goes
into venturing into new directions.

(29:10):
But I can really relate to elementsof things that you guys are saying
there in that, having, wanting tocontinually evolve and grow, adapt to
your family's needs, do adapt to yourown brain needs and, Keep it interesting.
And I lo I love current because youoften talk about ACT and how you bring
that into to the work that you doand also your every day, you live it.

(29:35):
and I, you know, I really valuethat and I love hearing you talking
about that in, in the podcast.
Oh, thank you.
Yeah.
For those who haven't heard thatbefore, ACT is acceptance and commitment
therapy, and it's often thought aboutmore as a psychological model, but
really it's transdisciplinary transdiagnostic framework that really

(29:56):
fits nicely with our OT models.
And it's, it's a way of supporting peoplein, being able to roll with challenging
thoughts and feelings that can come up andmaybe get in the way of our occupational
engagement, or as the psychologistwould maybe call it, Behaviors aligned
with our values, but really to us it'smeaningful occupation and all sorts of

(30:16):
things come up for us personally andprofessionally or with our clients.
so having a framework of resources thatare really compassionate and mindful,
reflective, that create curiosity,rather than trying to change the content
of difficult thoughts and feelings.
It's a model I really enjoy.
And so it shows up in all the things Ido, but, there are so many pathways to

(30:36):
the same, Sort of thinking about differentthings we connect with and engaging
in that ongoing reflective practice,checking in on what matters to us and,
reflecting with others, I think is reallysupportive in what do, how we co-regulate,
how we grow, how we remain intentionalin the way we're living and working.

(30:57):
Yeah, it's really interestinglistening to the two of you.
'cause as you're saying that Iwouldn't have had at the time.
Had accessed, therapy thatused act as an approach.
I certainly could have benefited withit when I, the car crashed, I look
back now, even when you were sayingit there Jen, and it's that piece
around for me there was no acceptance.

(31:21):
There was no acceptance that I,even though like I had si when I
say significant fatigue, like itwas horrendous and, but then I was
that client that constantly like Ihave a good day so I do too much.
So then you have four down daysbecause there was no sense of energy
conservation even though I'd trained inlike back even it's something we do for

(31:44):
other
people, not
ourselves.
Oh yeah.
But not ourselves because therewas just zero acceptance there.
Like I was just the worst client ever.
I'd say it was a pain in thebackside coming into people.
'cause I just wanted toknow when will you fix me?
When will this be gone?
Thanks very much.
Like you haven't solved myproblems yet, but like I look back
and go in all of that journey.

(32:06):
I didn't have an OT.
I had
OT friends and like they can't OT you.
They can a little bit, but not really.
And it was because there was noconnection with what was meaningful.
All I wanted to do was get back,exercise, get back working.
I really missed that work identity.
I wanted to get back doing things.
Yeah.
And nobody was connecting any of that forme, like in a real, gentle, compassionate

(32:32):
way And I remember the first personthat did my goal was that I would
read one page of Harry Potter a day.
So whilst I didn't accept that,like I couldn't read much, it
wasn't that bit of like it'sbeing advice and forcing it on me.
It was just more.
Just do one page and seehow that goes and come back.

(32:54):
So I think as OTs like, when I hearyou talk about ACT, it's like that
compassion, the acceptance and helpingpeople to like, what will you do?
what's the little thing you will do?
Not these big goals with the realfunctional, purposeful stuff.
I, I love how there wasthat kind of, moment, right?

(33:14):
There's this moment in time where you'relike, oh, the one page of Harry Potter.
I find as I'm, so I have apractical act for OTs course, but
supporting OTs in a variety of ways.
Often they're looking for a really big,can you give me a worksheet to work
through all the things and give me the10 things I'm gonna do in that session?
And I really try to impressupon people so often.

(33:38):
And I ask my clients at my mentalhealth clients, at the end of
working with them, what was thething that was most impactful?
And often they'll say things likethat, you know, when you said about
the one page of Harry Potter, likesomething like that, something that to
me was a bit trivial and transactional.
it's in those moments and so oftenit's like just the way we position
a question or the way we reflectsomething back to someone where they go.

(34:00):
Oh, now I get it.
and a whole bunch of doors open up becausethere's a connection made, but usually
it's in small moments, not a worksheet.
Totally.
Okay.
we had a lovely, experience on,the Irish Occupational Therapy
Podcast in our first, episode.
We spoke to somebody who'd usedoccupational therapy services,
as a mental health service user.

(34:21):
And he spoke about his occupationaltherapist and what he'd gotten from it.
and his big thing was budgeting and itreally helped, and we didn't know who this
OT was at the time, but she contacted usand then came on in the second season.
And what was really interestingis what landed for her.
She was like, we did that, but I didn'tthink that was such a big deal at all.
it was just one of a whole host ofthings, but like years later, that

(34:45):
was the bit that he remembered.
And it's, di different perspectivesand it's often not what you
realize or you think is thebig thing that actually lands.
Absolutely, yes.
Where I live in Canada, kids don'tgo back to school until the start
of September or somewhere rightaround the start of September.
But I'm hearing from a lot of theOTs that I work with, that they're

(35:06):
preparing for their kids to goback to school in a couple weeks.
And it brings about these sort of,new year, fresh start vibes, shiny
new stationary and new pencil cases,and, maybe a new outfit or two.
With new beginnings, we're always thinkingabout those new schedules, new routines,
how to set ourselves up for success.
But then you get caught up in thedaily rush and you feel like you're

(35:30):
reacting to whatever comes at youinstead of actively living with purpose.
I created the ACTivate VitalityPersonal Development Planner,
specifically for this moment.
It's not another productivity plannertrying to squeeze more into your day.
Instead, it blends science and soulto help you build awareness of how
you're actually spending your time.
Then move forward with intention.

(35:51):
The planner starts with two weeks ofjust awareness building, no planning,
just noticing what energizes you, whatdrains you, what are those magic moments
when you feel exactly where you needto be, then you use those insights
to plan forward in a way that buildsvitality into your everyday life.
It's based in acceptance and commitmenttherapy principles, as well as all

(36:13):
kinds of occupational analysis.
So you are building psychologicalflexibility, practicing mindfulness,
and creating habits that actually stick.
Available in digital format for immediatedownload, or grab the paper version
on Amazon if you love writing by hand.
I like the hand part.
I've got lots of colorful markersand stickers and things to make

(36:33):
it really fun and engaging.
There's a link in the show notes learnmore about the ACTivate Vitality
personal Development Planner.
Now you brought up your podcast.
Would you care to describeyour podcast to the listeners?
I know there's been somerecent transitions in how
your podcast is going as well.
It started myself and acolleague, Aideen, Rutledge.

(36:55):
We felt that there wasn't any Irish voice,in the podcasting field, and we wanted
to highlight the value of occupationaltherapy, really both among the
profession and outside of the profession.
So we started off just chattingto everybody we wanted to chat to.
so the first couple of seasonswere quite random, but interesting.
And then we kind of evolved anddid a series on, Aideen's area of

(37:19):
preference, which is, neuro referent,children, We talked to different, we
talked to occupational therapists,but also parents, teachers, other
clinicians, who would be aware of OT.
we did then a session on kind ofteenagers and young adults, which
would be my area of interest.
And then, Áine very kindly agreed tostep into the reach and the most recent
season that we're, that's going out atthe moment, is around how do we encourage

(37:42):
or support occupational therapiststo be brave as your podcast said, and
jump into new or interesting areas ofpractice or follow their, their passions.
Because I think both Áine and Iwould've seen occupational therapists
who have fallen out of love withthe profession a little bit.
And you know, when we talk to them,it's not really that they've fallen

(38:03):
of love with the profession, isthat maybe the practice that they're
working in or the service thatthey're working in is constraining
and is not what they, want or need.
And so we are supporting people tothink, how can they use their OT
skills and their OT framework ina creative or in a different way.
I love that.
yeah, a lot of similarities there.

(38:24):
and I love how you evolvedit over time, right?
That there's this, let's jumpin and talk to some interesting
people and see what comes.
And we thought we'd do, wethought we'd do six episodes,
and I think we're certainlyonto season five now.
It's definitely, it's been great.
And do you know, for, just from a,even from a professional development
perspective, I just love talking to peopleand I love finding out, what drives them,

(38:47):
what interests 'em, and, you know, talkingto you Carlyn, that's one of the pleasures
of being able to just have a chat.
When else do you have the kindof permission nearly to contact
somebody that you've listened toor that you've heard of, or that
you admire and say, can we talk?
Yeah.
so it, it's an absolute privilegeto be able to do the podcast.
Really one of my recent guests,he said that so often we'll have

(39:09):
a conversation and be like, dangit, we should have recorded that.
That would be helpful for otherpeople to hear and we get to do that.
So yours is called the IrishOccupational Therapy Podcast, right?
That's right.
Very relevant beyond Ireland as well.
Absolutely.
We hope so.
we've spoken to people in Australiaand America, in, in Ireland,

(39:30):
in Dubai, in different places.
Canada, just because Canada, yeah.
Top of our list now.
I know, it's great.
Have you seen any surprising benefits?
I've just thinking of how I've beensurprised by the reach that my podcast,
The BRAVE OT Podcast does not have a huge,number of downloads or anything like that.

(39:52):
It has opened up a numberof very surprising doors.
and so I'm a bit curious if you've hadthat experience where some things have
surprised you about having a podcast.
I've been contacted by different people,and Students, has been a great one and
people who are interested, before they'veeven started their undergrad and undergrad
students with kinda suggestions and ideasor questions, which I absolutely love.

(40:15):
I suppose I'm fascinated whenI look at the stats and see.
All around the world where people arelistening, I'm I thought, oh, this
is just gonna be of interest locally.
You know, a few of my friends mighttune in and listen and when you look
at it, and it really is all over theworld that people are listening from.
And I think that's fantastic.
and I think that the one, one of thethings that I love about occupational

(40:36):
therapy is that we are such, we've gotso much similarity across the world.
We're a unified profession anda lot of professions aren't.
I'm on core of our registration board.
I'm on the OT registration board andit's one of the easier ones compared
to the other disciplines because weknow the standards of education in
occupational therapy once they'realigned with WFOT, are pretty much

(40:58):
gonna be very similar across the board.
So it's much easier to get that alignmentand to know that wherever you go in the
world, you're going to, have a similarexperience with an occupational therapist.
So then it's lovely with the podcast toknow that there is that universality.
Indeed, yes.
I've been finding too in, I went to theCanadian Occupational Therapy Conference

(41:18):
this year and then the Australian andand you know, I can think about many
products of mine that, I could putat the forefront that, would make me
money, recruiting people into my kindof signature program ACTivate Vitality
or talking about my plan or talkingabout my practical act for OT course.
But actually what's super approachableis to put my podcast out front.
So I carried around stickers with me ofThe BRAVE OT Podcast and put a little

(41:43):
Canada flag 'cause there was a senseof, That was interesting to people.
And I had a booth at the Canadian OTconference, which was interesting too.
'cause people could just walk up,I'm not trying to sell them anything.
I've got nothing to sell.
And they're just like, oh, cool.
What got you into podcasting?
And we could just have a conversationor what's your podcast about?
And it's a way of bringing inpeople, curiously and interested

(42:04):
in building a relationship.
in my podcast I drop when I haveproducts to sell or offers to share.
But really it's nice to just putthat relationship out front and have
something that people are interested.
Oh, I know podcasts.
Tell me a little bit about yours.
Yeah, and it's a great CPD justlistening to podcasts as well.
I just love listening to podcasts andfind there's, OT potential, have done

(42:28):
a really interesting one recently wherethey have, somebody who's looking to go
into private practice and somebody whowas the, AOTA chair person or president
just talking about the, the process.
And I just find it fascinating.
Sorry, when I cut over you there?
No.
Do you know what, that'swhat I was thinking.
Jen as well is like the exact same.
It's like you can listento a podcast globally.

(42:50):
Be it, whether it's in Australia, Canada,you name it, and there's such learning
in it, there's such rich information.
You'll always get a nugget of, oh,how they apply that information.
How we do it.
Like we give ourselves such a hardtime about not using occupational
therapy perspective language, butyou listen to any OT talk and they'll

(43:11):
talk about like engagement and likewhat they're doing and it's yeah, you
really can learn from other podcasts.
Yeah.
I think more people should start podcasts.
It's a really great way to connect.
What do you think people should know ifthey're considering starting a podcast?
You know what's funny, Carlyn, onour current season, we actually

(43:33):
speak to a podcast manager Yeah.
About the process and how to tryand take away some of the fear.
Because I think everybody's, andto be honest, like when I started
out with Adeen, we were firstof all, who do we think we are?
Like you really had imposter syndrome.
Like why do we think weshould be doing this?
And we were like, nobody else is.
And we did, but terrified aboutsaying something wrong or about

(43:57):
saying something that would offendsomebody or upset somebody, or that
wouldn't be, the right thing to say.
And you have to give yourself permission,just to go and go, we're all human.
You might get a little bit wrong,or you might kind of fluff the way
that you say something, but Sure.
Hopefully everyone who's listening ishuman too, so they're gonna get it.
Yeah, and I think there's somethingreally nice about having a level of

(44:19):
vulnerability when you're talkingand sharing that rather than it being
absolutely perfect and polished,because certainly I'm not, I.
I think it gives people permissionto, I intentionally try not to over
edit and, leave in the fumbles andjust even just like in subtle ways
to help normalize imperfection.
But I do still, when I look at mystats, my solo episodes do a lot better

(44:41):
statistically than my interviews yet.
When I sit down to do a solo episode,that's when all of my self-doubt creeps
in and go, yeah, who are you to say?
And if you talk to a hundred otherOTs, they'd say a hundred other things
and surely people are gonna disagree.
And have I read every article onthat thing I was just gonna talk
about or, you know, but in talking toothers like that natural discussion,

(45:04):
it comes, that's what we do, right?
We talk with clients, we.
Talk about what comes up.
We navigate it and in doing so,it's easy for us to say, yeah,
there's lots of perspectives.
What's your perspective?
What's my perspective?
But there's something aboutstanding, sitting there by myself
and professing an opinion thatfeels a little bit intimidating.

(45:24):
It's reminded me a lot, whenyou said air gear gin, the
parallel process and supervision.
So where something's going on thatwe're repeating, like the emotional
impact or the behavior or somethingthat's going on in a therapy session
and stepping into the podcast wasprobably a little bit like that for me.
people say a bit ofsetting up in business.

(45:45):
There's that sense ofthat initial first year.
Like my initial first year was like myget outta jail card was if it doesn't
work out, I'll just work in Starbucks.
okay.
So it was like nearly taking off any.
Standards of that I have to make thiswork and then giving it a go and it works.
all that bit that you have of being inbusiness of ugh, like private practice

(46:08):
and all the ick that goes with that,financially and everything else.
And then with podcasting, I waslike, oh gosh, I can't do that.
I'm not technical enough.
And I'm really like, I like tech, but I'mdyslexic so I'm not a good like reader.
as in, I obviously like I can doit, but it's like I'm, it's, I

(46:29):
used to always blame myself going,oh, I just read really slowly.
So I would say, I'm not overlytechnical minded, but I'm okay.
And then I was like, oh gosh, butthere's 50 other people better than me.
And then when Jen approached meand I suppose, 'cause I know Jen
well now, I was like, it'll beokay 'cause I'm doing it with Jen.

(46:49):
You know, because you hold myhand and walk me through it.
And it's nearly re made me realize,oh yeah, when we do the how to set
up a private practice course, like weliterally do all of the like from the
real baby steps of you don't have to runa business, you can just step in gently.

(47:10):
And for me, stepping into the podcasthas been so lovely in that way of
because Jen has helped me to show methe structure and what it looks like
and all of the pragmatics around it.
So I think for people even thinking aboutit, like OTs are very friendly, reach
out to people and get a bit of help.

(47:31):
Yes.
Yes.
And that's it withprivate practice, right?
You can start by taking theclient that comes up, right?
And just that client helps you setup some of those basic structures
that can allow you to continue.
You need a way to communicate with them.
You need a way to invoice them.
You need a way to storeinformation securely.
You need some insurancethat's really about it, right?

(47:53):
and it's, yeah, I love that translationof all of these baby steps, right?
we're good at gradingactivities for others.
really simple way of gradingactivity for podcasting, getting in
contact with Carlyn or ourselves.
Come on a podcast, try it.
Yeah.
And then we'll build it up.
There's so many different ways to do it.

(48:13):
I feel like the test case because Janeand Adeen very kindly invited me on their
podcast last year, and I spoke about.
the dyspraxia research thatI would've been involved in.
So it was a really nice, oh, okay, this
isn't as
complicated as it looks.
Totally.
and you guys record a batch as aseason together and then roll that out?

(48:37):
Is that how you do it?
Can you tell me a little bit moreabout how you structure those
episodes?
Yeah.
That, that, that's certainly whatwe've been doing, more by default,
When myself and Aideen started thatfirst season, we all, we heard from
everybody that we just touched basewith was, you have to be consistent.
You have to continuously, and wewere both kind of going, can't
really dedicate my life to doingsomething every week or whatever.

(49:00):
So we, We recorded, I think eightor something for that first, and
we decided to then put them out.
So then we had the weekly schedule'cause we knew we had them in the bag.
And then we decided to do that againat times when we had a little bit more
capacity in our work, in our privatepractices, we were able to say, okay, we
can dedicate a couple of days or, whateveramount of time to, to get a few together.

(49:24):
And then we can ease themout over, over a while.
And then actually the later seasons,we found it beneficial to record a few
back, to back on the same theme becausethen we were able to really immerse
ourselves in the kind of, team that wewere exploring or we were looking at.
And, they kind of then supportedeach other a little bit.
So it's been nice.
and then we know that we've got,a season a block, they'll go out

(49:47):
and then when we've got a bitmore time, we'll do the next one.
so I know that's different to how you doit, which is more of a rolling program.
Kind of right.
there have been times where I haven'treleased an episode for months, but
having Jane as a sponsor has helped me.
'cause I have an obligationto do one per month for them.
I try to do two per month, butusually I can't do that without help.

(50:08):
but consistency, I don'tdo anything consistently.
So that advice of whathas to be consistent.
does it,
what is the
consequence
here?
I am, and I actually, because I followyour podcast, so every so often it'll
just pop up, oh, there's a new one.
And I'm like, oh, great.
I'm not expecting.
Intermittent reinforcement scheduleis the most powerful one, isn't
it?

(50:28):
Yeah.
I love it.
Absolutely.
Like meta Instagram are making a fortuneoff of it, that we go back in, there may
not be something new, but maybe there is
Indeed.
And really are people sittingthere waiting for us and going,
there's no podcast this week.
Or, oh yeah, they're dying for it.
I feel
like
I'm
not
that
important to
people.

(50:49):
Jane told me that signing up now, thiswas going to be the making of my career.
So Carlyn, you're going tohave to reign it back in here.
Now
let's make our CI love it.
let's give it a lot of power.
You know what, and it's been verysurprising, and I know we talk about this
on the podcast I recorded with you that,we're hearing of people who are, using
our episodes in university programs and,like these are surprising things to me.

(51:13):
That it's a way of learning that is,approachable and comfortable and casual.
And there's actually I know of I'veheard seen videos, I've seen tiktoks
about, AI that will take a. Chapterlike a university textbook chapter and
turn it into a podcast episode so thatyou can listen to it in a way that your
brain is feeling more connected to it.
'cause it's a little bit moreconversational and relational,

(51:35):
which is really interesting.
I like that.
You can do that on NotebookLM and it is brilliant.
as somebody who lo, I love audio, like Ilove podcasts, I love Audible and now, and
the really nice bit of it is, in the pastwhen you listen to a PDF of a document,
so you might try and listen to a researchpaper, like you just couldn't, there's

(51:58):
no way your brain would stay engaged.
It's so much better because actuallyobviously the AI bot is trained so
you get intonation, you get correct.
Posing it is, it's a game changeron listening to, for me anyway,
educational content that Iwouldn't always have time to read.

(52:18):
Notebook lm. So do you pay for thator can it do that in a free version?
Oh, I add that to the multiplesubscriptions, that I have Carlyn,
which I mean as somebody who coachespeople on, keep an eye on the amount
of subscriptions you have in yourbusiness and watch if you're using them.
Yes.
yeah, there's a little bit big kettle.

(52:39):
Yeah, there's a little bit ofthe kettle calling the pot black.
But no, I say that, but actually Ido use those because I drive a lot
with work, so I do a lot of drivingat times and for me that has been one
of the biggest changes in businessdriving is no longer a waste of time.
I could have three hoursof CPD driving now.

(53:03):
I love it.
You had mentioned at the beginning thatthere was an upcoming event or offering.
Could you tell us a little bitabout that before each answering the
following the questions that come after?
So it's happening on the20th of September in Dublin.
Myself and Áine are, it's a privatepractitioner networking summit.

(53:23):
So we have, some representatives fromCORU, which is our regulatory body, just
talking about some of the challengesthat they're seeing in private practice.
We've got panel of people atdifferent stages of private practice.
We've got people talking aboutcybersecurity, HR challenges
and contracting marketing.
and we've got a whole range of, people whosupport businesses coming to, to tell us

(53:47):
about, what they do, including Codex whoare an amazing, furniture office supplier.
But they are very much looking at neuroaffirming, equipment in the workplace.
So they've done a really nicereport on, the needs of neuro
divergent people in the workforceand how employers can support them.
So we're delighted to have them.
So it's open to all OTs, psychologists.

(54:11):
psychotherapists, physios, speech andlanguage therapists, psychiatrists, anyone
in private practice who wants to networkand connect with other people because we
know it's, it can be an isolating world.
And we feel that, the risingtide raises all ships.
Let's all work together to, tosupport each other in practice.
And would it be suitablefor OTs outside of Ireland?

(54:33):
Absolutely.
Absolute, especially becausewe've got a lot of exhibitors.
Okay, so that piece around, you know,when you, a little bit like what we
said about supervision, when you don'tknow what you don't know, so actually,
you're thinking about getting somebodyto do some contracting work, then
connecting with somebody who works in HR.
So actually, what do I need to know abouthr? do I need a full-time HR person?

(54:59):
Can I contract HR and just buyin the package that I need?
What are the questionsthat I need to think about?
What are the things that Ineed to know about marketing?
We often think about marketing.
We just think social media, butactually marketing is so much wider.
Thinking about accounting team,thinking about cybersecurity.
GDPR, that's relevant no matterwhere you work in the world.

(55:22):
So I think having all of those exhibitorsthere and having an opportunity to be
able to go around and talk to them, andthey are also, we've got some people who
are gonna facilitate workshops for us.
So you're gonna have this chanceto learn network and ask a lot of
questions and find out things thatmaybe just were never on your radar.

(55:44):
The networking is so important though.
when we run the courses that we run,it is having the chance to share
concerns or, successes or questionswith other people who are doing it.
I think that's an invaluable, and whetheryou do that online or face-to-face, but
actually coming together face-to-faceis a really nice opportunity.
There's not many spaces, certainlyin Ireland for private practitioners

(56:07):
to come together and share therealities of the work that we do.
Wonderful.
And you're so
lonely on your own 'cause youthink, I'm just working all the
hours in the sun, is this me?
But actually having thatopportunity to speak to others
I think is just incredible.
Yes.
Can you say the name of the event again?

(56:28):
It is the Private PractitionersNetworking Summit.
Excellent.
And we'll share a link for thatin the show notes to make that
handy for people to check out.
Can I ask you what beingbrave means to you?
Áine, could you go first?
Ooh.
what does being brave mean to me?

(56:50):
I think sometimes it means actuallyreally for me getting help.
Like when I say getting help, liketruly stepping into getting help.
Because I definitely would have a tendencyto crack on, work hard, find out, learn
about it, really research and do that.

(57:10):
And sometimes I think being brave forme is stepping back and going, actually,
could somebody else help me here?
Yeah.
Do I actually have to research it myself?
Can I let that go and just outsourceit and have the conversation
with somebody else about it?
yes.
That's a good one.
How
about you, Jen?
What does being brave mean to you?

(57:32):
I think being brave sometimes meansjust asking questions and maybe
challenging some of the norms or thethings that we just take for granted.
You know, why do I haveto work in this way?
Or why do I have to stick to nine to five?
Or, why do I have to see somebodyin a particular clinic or, model?

(57:54):
and just being curious, asking thosequestions and being brave is then
being open to the answers, and beingable to maybe change and evolve.
I think that sounds straightforward,but it's definitely not always easy.
And in both of your answers, you, There'sthe autopilot where we just keep going.
That we, that's what we coulddo and that's what we do.

(58:16):
Yeah.
For the most part.
And it conserves a bit of cognitiveenergy if we're not pausing
to think, should I do this?
Can I get help with this?
Should I, could they do it?
Is it required to doit different like that?
There is an extra... it is more effortfulto pause, check in, reflect, hold up.
what actually are the regulations on this?
I remember, I've talked about thison the podcast before I, in my last

(58:36):
job, you had to use a black pen.
You had to write after every interaction.
It had to be in SOAP format.
Are any of those things actuallyrequired now here in my own private
practice, or does it need to be weekly?
yeah.
There are so many things that doesrequire a bit of effort to slow down
and check in, reflect and think,no, that's not necessary anymore.
Yeah.

(58:57):
but it's, that's thing some of thepower, I think too, for OT as well
as we know this science, we know thatthe brain is designed to actually
not constantly seek new solutionsbecause it'll drain cognitive energy.
So we know that actually havingsomebody where you can talk it
through with them and brainstormand then get it fresh perspective.

(59:21):
Then choose the solutionand break down the solution.
that's just so that's from abrain-based perspective, it's so
much more appropriate and a betterway of working scientifically.
And we have the art of it thatactually somebody doing with you.
And I think sometimes for me, it'snot forgetting to do that on myself.

(59:43):
Mm-hmm.
That I actually don'tforget to pull in the help.
Like
indeed.
What is something braveyou've done recently?
setting up the networking summitmuch was definitely something
that we, it's a new thing.
It's an exciting thing, sohopefully it pays off when it works.
I'm also, I am exploring, atechnology solution option.

(01:00:07):
So again, shiny new things, buttaking things in a different direction
and talking to people outside of myusual kind of OT, healthcare sphere.
being able to say what I don't know,as, as well as what I do know has
been, that's a little bit brave andI don't know whether it'll lead to
anything, but I'm following the journey.

(01:00:29):
Very good.
Áine.
There's a lot of similarity there,Jen, it sounds like I'm copying you.
but I think it's, yeah, it'sthat bit of working with people.
So during the summer I had lookedat, or say during, we're still in
the summer, looking at a piece oftech to see how we could functionally

(01:00:49):
examine and very easy low cost forour executive functioning skills.
'cause I'm really interested in that.
and that's been really interestingjust looking at like the tech behind
it and how actually is it genuinelygonna be used, and recognizing that
it's never gonna replace the human.
So where's the added value?

(01:01:09):
So at the moment I'm at the point ofexploring it to see can it truly add value
or is it just something shiny and new.
So interesting.
Yes, there, we could many make manyepisodes too on, on how we're using AI and
where that's valuable and where we need tobe, intentional about watching for risk,

(01:01:29):
and seeing some, detrimental things comingup and how do we embrace it and understand
it so we can make sure it's doing well.
Totally.
Totally.
And I think that's the big piece for me.
I could so easily get caught intoit and think, oh, that's amazing,
but actually does it matter if Iself-assess my own executive functioning

(01:01:50):
skills via an assessment tool?
Like we know that, like reallyin practice it's a bit about,
coaching the persons here.
And when I say that, likeoccupational therapy or someone else
working whatever approach to it.
But also trying to reign myself in 'cause.
I just want to jump in and go,I know it's gonna be brilliant.
It'll be amazing.

(01:02:10):
'cause it's tech.
Totally.
It's exciting, but actually, will itgenuinely, as they say, generate any
revenue, but it's exciting at the moment.
Yeah.
And it's brave to express and
embrace it.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's good fun.
And I love that we've created these waysof working that makes room for these

(01:02:31):
explorations and tangents and interests.
I often think, wow, if I was in mylast job working sort of eight to four
15, seeing clients all day, there,I wouldn't have energy at the end
of the day to explore these things.
So I appreciate the, privilege, but alsothere's some intentionality that went
into working this way for all of us.

(01:02:52):
Yeah.
Gives you the capacity.
How would you like to see OTs be a littlebit more brave in the coming years?
I think really owning and articulatingour value of how we help people
to identify meaning and purpose.
and that they are the coretenents of everyday life.

(01:03:13):
Just the real ordinary, what is meaningfulfor our clients, where the purpose in
their lives, and helping to articulatethat we do it in a scientific way.
The science and art behind it.
Yeah.
It's not occupation forthe sake of occupation.
No.
That without the meaning and the purpose.
It's been empty, is yeah.

(01:03:34):
I'd love to see OTs moving beyond thatneed to justify continuously what we do.
I feel as OTs we're so concerned aboutproving our worth rather than just knowing
that what we do has value and owning it.
I'm not apologizing for it.

(01:03:55):
I'd love for every OT to boldly holdthat occupational therapist title first
to say I am an occupational therapist.
I might have other hats, butfirst and foremost, I'm an OT
without having to launch into anexplanation of what that means.
But that's okay.
so I'd love to see us being brave andjust moving past those conversations that

(01:04:15):
seems to have been going on for years asto how do you explain what we do and how
do you justify it and how do you prove it?
Like we've done that lads,we just need to own it.
Everybody else can catch up, but we justneed to occupy that space where we are
occupational therapist and that's okay.
The proof is in the pudding, right?
So often the people who have hadexposure to occupational therapy

(01:04:36):
and know it was occupationaltherapy are like, yes, I get it.
sometimes doing it or illustrating howwe do it, rather than explaining models
that we end up with people with eyes glazeover at the, by the buffet at the party.
Absolutely.
How would you like peopleto connect with you?
So we'll have the link for the summitcoming up, but any other ways you'd

(01:05:00):
like people to connect if they, areinterested in exploring the podcast
more, or each of your areas of specialty?
Both on Instagram and LinkedIn,as individual, under our names.
And then we do have an Instagrampage for the Irish Occupational
Therapy Podcast as well.
Yeah.
Or they can drop me an email.
I'm good on emailing as well.

(01:05:21):
write a letter, maybesend a carrier pigeon.
yeah.
No, good old fashioned,
LinkedIn, Instagram, email.
I will share some links inthe show notes for that.
Thank you so much for being on the podcast
Yeah, that'd be great.
Thank you Carlyn.
That's,
thanks so much for having us.
really appreciate it.
It's

(01:05:41):
I keep thinking about what Áine andJen said about being brave, relating
to getting help instead of tryingto figure it all out yourself.
These two are building somethingsustainable by working with their multi
passionate brains, not against them,they're creating the support systems
that don't exist, starting podcasts,even when they felt like imposters and

(01:06:02):
proving That you can pivot and adaptwithout having it all figured out First.
What really gets me is how they'renormalizing the messy, non-linear path.
Áine did a PhD thinking she'dgo into academia and then
realized she didn't want that.
Jen felt frustrated in a momentof reaction to a family need,
and that was a wake up call.

(01:06:22):
These aren't failures, They're coursecorrections that lead to something better.
If you are feeling scattered or like youshould have it more figured out by now,
Remember what we heard today.
You can start with one client.
You can ask for help, And youdon't need to apologize for not
following a traditional path.
It's kind of boring if you ask me.
All three of us areavailable to support you.

(01:06:44):
If there's anything we can do to help youfigure out where you're headed from here,
help you find something really alignedwith your passions and your interests,
and your own brain and way of working.
Share this episode with an OTfriend Who needs to hear that
it's okay to build it as you go.
Leave a review if this resonated with youand come join us for more conversation

(01:07:06):
in the Brave OT Facebook group becauseÁine and Jen showed us having your
people makes all the difference.
As always, be brave OTs.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 46: Multi-Passionate OTs Creating Work They Love, One Layer at a Time with Guests, Áine O'Dea & Jen Trzeciak

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show

All Episodes

Ep. 46: Multi-Passionate OTs Creating Work They Love, One Layer at a Time with Guests, Áine O'Dea & Jen Trzeciak

24/7 News: The Latest