September 24, 2025 • 25 mins
Daniil Kleyman is a real estate investor, software entrepreneur, and founder of multiple thriving companies based in Richmond, VA. Originally from snowy Moscow, Russia, Daniil immigrated to the U.S. at age 12 and eventually found himself on Wall Street—briefly, he found his true path in real estate and software development—and hasn’t looked back since.
He runs Evolve Development, a real estate firm focused on ground-up multi-family and mixed-use projects with a current pipeline of over $80 million. Daniil also leads True Vision Analytics, which builds tools like Rehab Valuator, helping investors and developers analyze deals, raise capital, and manage projects across the U.S. and beyond.
An avid traveler, Daniil spends at least two months a year abroad. He stays active through jogging and Muay Thai, and is a hands-on leader, constantly collaborating with his software team to drive innovation.
During the show we discussed:
- Streamlines investor decision-making.
- Reduces risks in property acquisition and development.
- Builds financial models and pro formas.
- Supports pitching deals to lenders or banks.
- Estimates ROI, cash flow, and profit margins.
- Determines maximum allowable offers (MAO).
- Evaluates property exit strategies.
- Simplifies rehab budgets and scopes of work.
- Compares financing options quickly.
- Enhances comp analysis vs. MLS or Zillow.
- Markets wholesale deals effectively.
- Provides pre-built flyers and presentations.
Resources:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Welcome to the Business Credit and Financing Show.
Each week, we talk about the growth strategies
that matter most to entrepreneurs.
Listen in as we discuss the secrets to
getting credit and money to start and grow
your business.
And enjoy as we talk with seasoned business
owners, coaches, and industry leaders on a variety
(00:22):
of topics from advertising and marketing to the
nuts and bolts of running a highly successful
business.
And now, to introduce the host of our
show, financial expert and award-winning author, Ty
Crandall.
Hello, and thanks for joining us today.
I'm super excited you could be here.
Today, we're talking about real estate.
We're talking about actually tools, resources, especially software
(00:44):
that can actually help you either break into
the industry, whatever you're looking to do in
real estate, or actually scale and even rapidly
scale what you're doing right now if you're
already in real estate.
So to have this conversation with us today
is Daniel Klayman.
Now, Daniel's actually a real estate investor, a
software entrepreneur, and founder of multiple thriving companies
based in Richmond, Virginia.
Originally from snowy Moscow, Russia, Daniel actually immigrated
(01:05):
to the U.S. at age 12 and
eventually found himself on Wall Street.
Briefly, he found his true path in real
estate, though, software development especially, and hasn't looked
back since.
Now, he runs Evolve Development, a real estate
firm focused on ground-up multifamily and mixed
-use projects with a current pipeline of over
$80 million.
Now, Daniel also leads TruVizion Analytics, which builds
(01:27):
tools like RehabValuator, helping investors and developers analyze
deals, raise capital, and manage projects across the
U.S. and beyond.
Now, he's also an avid traveler.
He spends at least two months a year
abroad, and he actually stays active through jogging
and Muay Thai, and is a hands-on
leader, constantly collaborating with his software team to
drive innovation.
(01:48):
Hey, Daniel, what's up, man?
Thanks for joining us today.
That was, Ty, from now on, you're my
spokesperson.
That was an amazing intro.
Some of that is a little old.
I stopped jogging a while ago.
Getting old starts to break down your bones.
I do other stuff lately, but otherwise, great
intro.
Thank you.
That's fantastic.
So what do you do now instead of
jog?
10 years ago, I would have laughed at
(02:08):
this answer, but yoga, and I do HIIT
workouts, and just lower-impact stuff, because jogging,
I don't know, all my friends that jog,
they have bad knees, bad ankles, bad joints.
Eventually, it just breaks down your body.
So no more jogging for me.
No more jogging.
I'm much like you.
I'm a daily yoga guy, and then I
(02:29):
found swimming is really good on my joints,
and good form exercise, too.
Swimming is great.
Swimming is really, really great all-body workout.
So now we're off this weird tangent about
fitness.
I love it.
Well, I gotta tell you, it's hard to
choose a topic with you, because you've done
so much in the real estate space, and
unlike a software guy, you've actually built software
(02:50):
to help you, it sounds like, and then
made a business out of it, helping other
real estate guys.
So what got you into real estate in
the very beginning?
Working a corporate job and realizing how miserable
of a slog it was.
I had an interest in real estate from
the beginning.
I took real estate courses in college, but
just nothing ever really clicked.
Concepts they teach you in college are actually
(03:12):
kind of higher-level concepts.
They don't teach you the stuff that sort
of the real estate education industry teaches, which
is, hey, here's how to break into real
estate.
Take a piece of crap house for 50
grand, wholesale it, make 20, whatever, right?
So the stuff I learned in college didn't
really help me get into the business.
So I went into finance.
I spent six years working on Wall Street,
(03:33):
worked a lot of hours, did stuff that
really I just wasn't cut out for.
It was interesting work, but didn't really light
me up.
And so I kept trying to find a
way to get out and get into real
estate the whole time I was there.
And I started kind of buying up properties
back in my hometown passively with a buddy
of mine.
And then in 2008, a company I worked
(03:54):
for crashed, went out of business.
Eventually I got laid off and they basically
pushed that button for me.
Like I kept trying to figure out how
to get out and they figured it out
for me and got me out.
I moved back to my hometown and kind
of did that thing that they didn't explain
to me in college, which is you don't
get into real estate development by doing a
(04:15):
500-unit development projects.
You get into real estate by wholesaling a
couple of houses, making some money, reinvesting that
money into marketing.
Maybe you evolve into doing bird deals or
fix and flips and you learn as you
go and you scale up as you go.
That's the stuff that they didn't really explain
to us in the college courses.
And so, yeah, I moved back home.
(04:36):
I wholesaled a bunch of houses, but very
quickly I wanted to get into doing bird
deals.
I wanted to build up cashflow.
My interest from very beginning, like I don't
get excited by big checks, I get excited
by monthly checks.
I get excited by checks that come in
to me day, month, after month, after month.
Small monthly checks get me a lot more
excited than big one-time checks, because big
one-time checks, I have to keep working
(04:56):
for to earn those checks.
So I started doing bird deals and I
did some fix and flips.
And then, you know, after seven or eight
years of doing bird deals and building up
a portfolio that kept giving me larger and
larger monthly checks, I transitioned into ground of
development.
And we can talk about software, but at
the same time as I got, when they
kicked me out of Wall Street, I read
(05:17):
the four-hour work week and Tim Ferriss
said, it's so easy to start an online
business.
Anybody can do it.
And I said, well, maybe I should start
an online business.
I have no idea what I'm going to
do, but I spent time on Wall Street,
just building spreadsheets, complicated financial models.
So I built one for myself to evaluate
real estate deals.
The first version was just a really clunky
spreadsheet in hindsight, but at the same time,
(05:38):
as I got into real estate full-time,
I started the software company and really started
off being spreadsheets and they got better and
better over time.
And then it turned into a legit software
platform that's cloud-based and the functionality kept
evolving and improving and just kind of bootstrapped
that business, not knowing what the hell I
was doing, not knowing anything about really building
(05:58):
software or internet marketing.
And we've grown, we have thousands, and I'm
not going to say exactly, but we have
many, many thousands of paying clients.
And we have a free version that we've
given away since 2009.
I mean, it has to be half a
million people easily that we've allowed to have
the free version of our software.
And so it's been a really cool journey
because we've helped a whole bunch of people
(06:20):
around the country, around the world, and I've
met a crazy amount of people through the
software business.
So that was a super long answer to
your very simple question.
Well, what are you doing with software?
How are you finding that it's helping you
and other real estate investors kind of like
streamline the process?
So we help, the software is called RehabValuator,
and we help kind of a few different
avatars of people.
(06:41):
We help wholesalers, we help rehabbers, whether they're
doing bird deals or they're fixing and flipping,
and then we help ground up developers.
And we tackle really a couple of things,
deal analysis, deal marketing, if you need to
sell your deals, raising capital, and then full
scale start to finish project management.
So it starts with just making good decisions.
(07:02):
Whatever avatar you are, right?
You need to be able to, you're looking
at a property, whether it's a piece of
land or it's a house, you need to
be able to pull accurate data on the
property, sales comps, determine an offer, run the
basic financial feasibility.
What should I offer for this house?
How much money is it gonna make?
So we start there, and then we give
our users marketing tools.
(07:22):
Press a button, it generates a marketing flyer
that you can syndicate to social media, you
can send to your buyers list to sell
your deal if you're a wholesaler.
Press another button, we generate really intelligent, simple
funding presentations that our clients have used to
raise tens of millions of dollars.
It bridges the credibility gap.
If you're starting out and you've got, let's
say a great house, you wanna rehab, you
(07:43):
wanna approach a private lender, maybe you'll have
a lot of experience.
While you can generate a really professional, intelligent
looking presentation very easily using our software, you
put in front of your lender and it
communicates clearly that you understand the business, you
understand how the deal is structured, it talks
the private lender's language.
Here's how much money you as a private
lender are gonna make.
Here's your loan to value, and here's what
(08:04):
you learn in interest.
Here's what you learn in points.
Here's the timeline for the deal.
Very simple, very clear, but it makes our
clients look incredibly credible even if they're fairly
new to the business.
And then we apply that same concept to
the ground of development.
We can generate funding proposals for banks that
get us short-term funding and permanent funding
on the projects that we built.
(08:24):
And then there's a project management suite in
there.
Very simple, right?
The construction project management in general is most
of the tools out there are geared towards
big builders, big contractors.
They're complicated, they're clunky, they're expensive.
So we've built rehab and construction management tools
that are affordable and fairly simple to learn
(08:44):
for sort of the smaller mom and pop
investors.
Click a button, you can build out a
rehab budget.
You can store your bids there.
You can build a simple schedule.
You can track your project on an ongoing
basis.
There's a very simple accounting system.
So you could see in real time, this
is how much I've spent, this is how
much I've budgeted, this is what's left to
pay my contractors, this is how we're doing.
So things like that, right?
(09:04):
I've really just kept building this tool for
myself as my business has evolved.
I don't really look at what other people
are doing, but what we've built has resonated
with a lot of people.
How do you think that software helps reduce
the risks that overall investors face?
So in my business right now, my business
is focused around developing mixed use and apartment
(09:26):
buildings without having some sort of an analysis
tool that tells me exactly what my cash
required for the deal is, my cash on
cash return is going to be, like here
are the rents that I need to hit
in order to cover my debt.
I don't even understand how you could do
this business.
Same thing with, let's say you're a wholesaler
and you're starting in the business.
How do you make offers without having accurate
(09:47):
sales comps to show you what this property
is gonna be worth once your end buyer
renovates it?
We're certainly not the end all be all,
there's other tools, but you gotta be using
something.
Otherwise you're just, you're shooting in the dark.
Now, did you say that what you do,
does it work for land?
What kind of types of properties does it
work for?
Land, single family homes, all the way to,
(10:08):
again, in my business we use the software
for multifamily projects that are 100 plus units.
So it works for everything in between.
And what advantages do you think it has
when you're, you talk about lenders, like what
advantages does it have to help you actually
pitch the deal when you actually get the
deal?
Because we lay out for the lender the
things that they're gonna ask for anyway.
(10:29):
And we lay it out in a very
clear to navigate manner before they even ask
those questions.
So it's like, we're reading the lender's mind.
Hey, here's how much this property is gonna
be worth once they renovate it.
Here's my rehab budget.
Here's the loan to value that I'm requesting.
Here's what you're gonna earn.
Here's the timeline of the deal.
Here are the sales comps.
(10:51):
Here are the rental comps.
Here's all the data.
It lays out the deal very clearly for
the lender rather than me saying, hey, Ty,
I need to borrow $100,000 for this
house.
And now you start asking me all of
these questions and we're having this painful back
and forth.
No, I'm giving you all this information.
You still need to underwrite, right?
You still need to do due diligence on
me as a borrower, but we're getting off
(11:13):
on the right foot because I look really
professional and I'm giving you the information that
you need to start underwriting the deal.
It builds a lot of credibility.
I mean, we have crazy testimonials from people
that are like complete newbies and have been
able to secure private capital using the software.
Have been able to go out and get
a construction loan from a local bank for
a multifamily project.
It's really neat.
Does it help like evaluating different extra strategies
(11:34):
for a property?
Because once I find the right property, I
can do a lot of things with it,
right?
I could do wholesale, fix and flip.
Does it help kind of evaluate the different
extras?
Yeah, it lets you evaluate the wholesale, fix
and flip, BRR, right?
If I keep this and rent it.
Yeah, it helps you evaluate those extra strategies.
We don't do like subject, we don't do
subject to analysis and some of the sort
of more esoteric, creative financing structures in the
(11:56):
software, but sort of the basics that almost
everybody uses.
Yeah, we tackle that stuff.
Now, when it comes to comps, like what
is different about what you do with software?
If somebody is using MLS to look at
comps or Zillow or something else, like what
is it that you're doing that's so much
different than any of the methods that people
use without using your software?
Sure, sure.
I mean, we take data very seriously.
(12:18):
We're constantly improving in our data.
We also have, I think, really dynamic kind
of filtering ability inside the software that lets
you really zero in on the most relevant
comps and get rid of outliers and noise.
So I think there we were very strong.
And now a quick break to hear from
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And I don't know, look, I mean, there's
great tools out there, right?
Again, but I think what makes us unique
is sort of the, we incorporate the full,
almost a full deal process into the platform.
Minus right now, we don't have leads.
We're probably gonna build that in soon.
That's the one piece that we just haven't
(13:20):
really tackled because it's not our strong suit,
is the leads.
But once you get a lead, our platform
handles everything from deal analysis, data, comps, raising
capital, all the way through project management, completion
of the project.
I think that makes us pretty unique.
What is it doing?
And definitely a little bit more on the
raising capital piece.
So what are the different benefits or aspects
(13:40):
or features that help you with the raising
capital piece?
It starts with structuring.
How do I structure this deal to where
I can offer, if I'm approaching private capital,
for example, I need to offer a certain
rate of return.
How much me does in the bonus deal?
What kind of return can they offer to
an investor that's attractive without breaking the deal
for me?
I can play around with a couple of
(14:01):
scenarios.
Maybe I offer, again, I'm talking strictly about,
let's say I'm approaching private lender to fix
and flip a house.
Okay, I can offer purely interest.
I can offer lower interest, but maybe a
couple of points.
Maybe I don't offer an interest rate at
all.
I don't offer any points, but they offer
a profit split.
And now we're a joint venture partners.
So the first thing that we allow our
(14:21):
user to do is play around with scenarios
and structure the deal so that it's profitable
for you, but it's also attractive enough for
your private lender in order to do the
deal.
And that, once you structure the deal, that
translates into really comprehensive presentation that you put
in front of your lender.
So we don't give you like lender leads.
Private lending, as I'm sure you know, it's
(14:41):
relationship-based.
Now, again, we have pieces of the software
that you can use to present to banks.
I've personally, my business have raised at this
point, probably over $40 million in bank capital
using the software, right, in debt.
But if we're talking about strictly private lenders,
we don't give you leads.
It's on you to go out and build
those relationships.
But once you have a deal to put
in front of somebody, we give you the
(15:03):
tools to do that really intelligently and make
you look really smart.
That's kind of what we do.
You mentioned the flyers too, and I love
that.
I've never heard of a software that does
that.
What's some use cases of that, like on
wholesaling or whatever, and where they're able to
come through and then be able to put
the benefits on a flyer and then use
that for market?
So, I mean, your deal analysis translates straight
into the marketing piece in the software.
(15:24):
And then there's functionality where, I mean, I
can be at your house signing a contract
with you and I can punch in the
numbers into the software, generate a link and
blast it out to my buyers via text
or via email or put it in my
Facebook group or put it in another Facebook
group.
So you can disseminate information very quickly and
very easily about the deal.
(15:46):
And again, like when I got started in
this business, it used to drive me crazy
when wholesalers would send me a text and
they still get these texts.
I can show you my phone.
Here's an address, here's a price.
Okay, unless I know the area incredibly well,
unless I know that street, sometimes I know
the area so well in rare circumstances that
(16:07):
if I see an address and I see
a price, I'm like, all right, that's a
good deal.
But that's almost never the case, right?
So now I've got this address and I've
got this price and I've got to go
and I've got to look this stuff up
and research it and figure out whether it's
even worth calling this wholesaler back to go
look at this deal.
Well, and so I created this tool because
I was frustrated because now instead of doing
(16:28):
that, you can send all the things that
I'm going to ask you anyway.
Here's the after repair value because I've run
comps.
Here are the comps.
Here are the pictures of the property.
So you can, now I'm going as a
wholesaler ballpark repairs, but nobody's going to take
me seriously anyway because wholesalers get it wrong
completely, but you can actually use the software
to estimate repairs, send that to your potential
(16:50):
buyers list as well.
So now I, as a buyer, I'm getting
information from you that saves me time.
It helps me quicker get to a point
where I say, hey Ty, yeah, I'd like
to see this house, or maybe I'd like
to make an offer in this house if
I'm virtual.
So we're shortcutting that deal closing process because
you're conveying a lot more information quickly to
(17:12):
your lenders or to your buyers that helps
them make a decision.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, makes perfect sense.
What about on the rehab side?
Like how is it helping then to be
able to estimate cost and things like that
to get the ROI, like if they're doing
a fix and flip?
You can build repair budgets very easily.
We give you pricing guidance.
I'm a firm believer in not tying into
(17:32):
random nationwide databases and like claiming to be
able to predict your repairs for you.
I think that's a fool's errand.
We get asked for that occasionally and I've
seen some tools do that, but repairs differ
widely between city to city, level of finishes,
your quality of your subcontractors, suppliers.
So we provide tools to people.
(17:53):
Now, again, we give you templates and pricing
guidance, but what we really are good at
is, Ty, you've done a rehab or two,
you know roughly what things cost.
You can populate your costs into this template.
And when you go out and look at
deal number two or deal number three, boom,
you pull it up and you just change
the number of windows.
You change the number of doors.
You change the square feet of the house
(18:14):
and it spits off a repair estimate for
you immediately.
As a wholesaler, you can do the same
thing, but we want our users to do
a little bit of research, pick up the
phone and find out what things cost in
your market.
Go out and get some bids.
But once you do that, you can store
your data in our system.
And the second time you estimate repairs, the
third time, the seventh time, the 20th time,
(18:36):
it takes 30 seconds.
It's lightning quick.
Does the software like actually help with communication
with deal partners and people involved in the
deal?
You can add users and you can put
users in there and you can have your
partners in the software and share deals.
And you can also just easily disseminate from
the software information to people that are not
in your account.
(18:56):
Because again, you can generate unique links and
you can generate PDFs and you can generate.
So I mean, yeah, we've got some updates
coming to that as well soon.
But yeah, you can, the easiest thing is
if you've got business partners, they're in your
account, they're users.
Daniel, it seems like if I'm coming into
real estate, I'm newer in real estate, like
in somebody that's experienced doesn't have access to
(19:16):
something this powerful.
Sounds like it almost gives me like an
unfair advantage to potentially help me even be
more competitive.
Is that what you guys find as well?
Yeah, and we provide a ton of training
around it too.
I mean, I realized that early on that
especially if you're newer, it's not enough for
us to give you tools and even great
support.
You need help, you need training.
So because we're actual real estate investors, and
(19:40):
by we, I mean me, I've put together
gobs of content over the years and continue
to do it about real estate investing, about
how to do deals and also how to
use the software to do deals.
So yeah, I mean, we've become a really
great resource, I think, for somebody new because
they're coming in, they're not just getting like
a random software tool, like here, see you
(20:01):
later.
Like we're giving a ton of support behind
it and education.
And that's a powerful combination.
Do you find like, who is your user?
Is it, are they newbies?
Are they people that are experienced investors?
Are they agents?
I mean, it even sounds like this could
be, these could be powerful tools for agents
as well.
It can, I don't think we have a
ton of agents.
Any agents that are using our software are
mostly also real estate investors.
(20:23):
So we've kind of bifurcated the product in
the sense that we tracked a lot of
newer investors, but we have a user base
that's very experienced as well.
And we never hear from those people because
they're just doing deals and using our software.
We hear a lot more from our newer
investors because they need a lot more handholding
and support and we provide that.
But I would say it's both, it's both.
(20:44):
New users, unfortunately, new investors, they churn from
our software and from the business in general.
And that's one of the things that we're,
I think, really passionate about is trying to
keep those people in the business.
Like, don't give up.
Doing your first deal is really hard, but
once you do it, stick it out.
Once you get that first deal done, second
one is easier, it all clicks together.
(21:05):
So we're really good at kind of helping
newer investors, but we have a ton of
experienced investors.
And again, like we have multifamily and mixed
use developers and townhome builders that are using
our software to do business at scale.
Rehab Valuator, I mean, powerful.
I love, and I appreciate all the insight
today.
I know it's hard to like, come on,
you're like me.
I don't like to talk about like my
(21:26):
product and what I do, but I just
think it's so valuable because so many of
our audience, so many members of our audience
are in real estate or getting in or
proficiently experts in real estate.
And so we never really talked about software
and how it can kind of help shortcut
this process, help you scale easier and better.
And help you make smarter decisions.
So I really appreciate you coming on and
sharing with us today.
Yeah, absolutely, my pleasure.
(21:46):
Yeah, I tend to kind of talk more
about the real estate side, just because I
think the tools are great, but the tools
allow us to do the business.
And ultimately it's about the business and it's
about what does the business then, the tools
enable the business, the business enables the life.
So there's layers.
So yeah, I mostly tend to talk about
(22:07):
the business side of it because that's what
gets people excited.
Nobody gets excited about tools, right?
Everybody gets excited about what do the tools
allow me to do?
And that's the business.
And then the business ideally enables financial freedom
and travel and time with your kids, et
cetera, et cetera.
Daniel, everybody, anybody here that's watching, that's interested,
what should they do?
Where should they go to learn more?
If you just go to rehabvaluator.com, if
(22:31):
I was smart, I'd be wearing my shirt
right now, but I'm not, I guess I'm
not a good marketer.
So, but if you just go to rehabvaluator
.com, you can check out the software.
Again, there's a free version there that lets
you do all the financial analysis.
It's feature limited, but it's a way that
you can test drive the software.
You can use the free version forever.
And even for our free version, all you
(22:52):
do is just get the free version.
You call our office and we pick up
the phone and help you.
I have full-time people staffed in my
office whose job is to help our users.
So that's probably the best way.
And even if you sign up for the
free version, you'll get emails from me.
And again, we have a lot of free
education that we disseminate to people and content.
And we have a big YouTube channel as
(23:13):
well, where I post a lot of content
lately on real estate development, where I'm probably
one of the few people in the country
that kind of freely teaches real estate development.
It's a pretty closely guarded topic, it seems
like.
So you can check us out on, if
you just look for RehabValuator or for my
name on YouTube, you will find our channel.
I highly suggest you subscribe to that because
there's a wealth of information on the YouTube
(23:35):
channel, especially if you're interested in real estate
development, whether it's building spec homes to sell
or building, a lot of what I do
is build to rent.
I love it, Daniel.
Thanks for coming on with us today.
My pleasure, Ty.
Thanks for having me.
All right, so listen, if you're watching this,
make sure you go to rehabvaluator.com.
If you go to rehabvaluator.com, you're able
to see right there a lot of the
features, a lot of the benefits of actually
using it.
Screenshots, it's everything you'd need to be able
(23:57):
to look at it, see what it can
do and even access the free version.
It's all there, you're real, or it's all
there, rehabvaluator.com.
And if you go to the bottom of
rehabvaluator.com, then you're able to actually access
the social channels as well.
So the social media links are right down
there.
You can click, follow, it'll take less than
a minute to do that because again, they
have a unique insight that you're not gonna
typically get from a real estate investor.
(24:17):
And Daniel's got a ton of experience in
real estate development as well.
So it's really rare that you find somebody
that's actually out there doing it, built an
entire software to help him and now it
helps thousands and thousands of users.
And then also is proficient in development and
then education, provides tons of teaching and education.
So make sure you go to rehabvaluator.com
and also make sure you go to the
bottom and subscribe on the social channels and
(24:38):
make sure that you check them out on
YouTube as well.
Thank you very much for tuning in.
Take care, have a great day.
You've been listening to the Business Credit and
Financing Show with your host, Ty Crandall.
Watch for our next episode to get even
(25:00):
more insight on financing and growing your business.
And don't forget to check us out online
at creditsuite.com for even more business growth
strategies.
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Welcome to the Business Credit and Financing Show.
Each week, we talk about the growth strategies
that matter most to entrepreneurs.
Listen in as we discuss the secrets to
getting credit and money to start and grow
your business.
And enjoy as we talk with seasoned business
owners, coaches, and industry leaders on a variety
(00:22):
of topics from advertising and marketing to the
nuts and bolts of running a highly successful
business.
And now, to introduce the host of our
show, financial expert and award-winning author, Ty
Crandall.
Hello, and thanks for joining us today.
I'm super excited you could be here.
Today, we're talking about real estate.
We're talking about actually tools, resources, especially software
(00:44):
that can actually help you either break into
the industry, whatever you're looking to do in
real estate, or actually scale and even rapidly
scale what you're doing right now if you're
already in real estate.
So to have this conversation with us today
is Daniel Klayman.
Now, Daniel's actually a real estate investor, a
software entrepreneur, and founder of multiple thriving companies
based in Richmond, Virginia.
Originally from snowy Moscow, Russia, Daniel actually immigrated
(01:05):
to the U.S. at age 12 and
eventually found himself on Wall Street.
Briefly, he found his true path in real
estate, though, software development especially, and hasn't looked
back since.
Now, he runs Evolve Development, a real estate
firm focused on ground-up multifamily and mixed
-use projects with a current pipeline of over
$80 million.
Now, Daniel also leads TruVizion Analytics, which builds
(01:27):
tools like RehabValuator, helping investors and developers analyze
deals, raise capital, and manage projects across the
U.S. and beyond.
Now, he's also an avid traveler.
He spends at least two months a year
abroad, and he actually stays active through jogging
and Muay Thai, and is a hands-on
leader, constantly collaborating with his software team to
drive innovation.
(01:48):
Hey, Daniel, what's up, man?
Thanks for joining us today.
That was, Ty, from now on, you're my
spokesperson.
That was an amazing intro.
Some of that is a little old.
I stopped jogging a while ago.
Getting old starts to break down your bones.
I do other stuff lately, but otherwise, great
intro.
Thank you.
That's fantastic.
So what do you do now instead of
jog?
10 years ago, I would have laughed at
(02:08):
this answer, but yoga, and I do HIIT
workouts, and just lower-impact stuff, because jogging,
I don't know, all my friends that jog,
they have bad knees, bad ankles, bad joints.
Eventually, it just breaks down your body.
So no more jogging for me.
No more jogging.
I'm much like you.
I'm a daily yoga guy, and then I
(02:29):
found swimming is really good on my joints,
and good form exercise, too.
Swimming is great.
Swimming is really, really great all-body workout.
So now we're off this weird tangent about
fitness.
I love it.
Well, I gotta tell you, it's hard to
choose a topic with you, because you've done
so much in the real estate space, and
unlike a software guy, you've actually built software
(02:50):
to help you, it sounds like, and then
made a business out of it, helping other
real estate guys.
So what got you into real estate in
the very beginning?
Working a corporate job and realizing how miserable
of a slog it was.
I had an interest in real estate from
the beginning.
I took real estate courses in college, but
just nothing ever really clicked.
Concepts they teach you in college are actually
(03:12):
kind of higher-level concepts.
They don't teach you the stuff that sort
of the real estate education industry teaches, which
is, hey, here's how to break into real
estate.
Take a piece of crap house for 50
grand, wholesale it, make 20, whatever, right?
So the stuff I learned in college didn't
really help me get into the business.
So I went into finance.
I spent six years working on Wall Street,
(03:33):
worked a lot of hours, did stuff that
really I just wasn't cut out for.
It was interesting work, but didn't really light
me up.
And so I kept trying to find a
way to get out and get into real
estate the whole time I was there.
And I started kind of buying up properties
back in my hometown passively with a buddy
of mine.
And then in 2008, a company I worked
(03:54):
for crashed, went out of business.
Eventually I got laid off and they basically
pushed that button for me.
Like I kept trying to figure out how
to get out and they figured it out
for me and got me out.
I moved back to my hometown and kind
of did that thing that they didn't explain
to me in college, which is you don't
get into real estate development by doing a
(04:15):
500-unit development projects.
You get into real estate by wholesaling a
couple of houses, making some money, reinvesting that
money into marketing.
Maybe you evolve into doing bird deals or
fix and flips and you learn as you
go and you scale up as you go.
That's the stuff that they didn't really explain
to us in the college courses.
And so, yeah, I moved back home.
(04:36):
I wholesaled a bunch of houses, but very
quickly I wanted to get into doing bird
deals.
I wanted to build up cashflow.
My interest from very beginning, like I don't
get excited by big checks, I get excited
by monthly checks.
I get excited by checks that come in
to me day, month, after month, after month.
Small monthly checks get me a lot more
excited than big one-time checks, because big
one-time checks, I have to keep working
(04:56):
for to earn those checks.
So I started doing bird deals and I
did some fix and flips.
And then, you know, after seven or eight
years of doing bird deals and building up
a portfolio that kept giving me larger and
larger monthly checks, I transitioned into ground of
development.
And we can talk about software, but at
the same time as I got, when they
kicked me out of Wall Street, I read
(05:17):
the four-hour work week and Tim Ferriss
said, it's so easy to start an online
business.
Anybody can do it.
And I said, well, maybe I should start
an online business.
I have no idea what I'm going to
do, but I spent time on Wall Street,
just building spreadsheets, complicated financial models.
So I built one for myself to evaluate
real estate deals.
The first version was just a really clunky
spreadsheet in hindsight, but at the same time,
(05:38):
as I got into real estate full-time,
I started the software company and really started
off being spreadsheets and they got better and
better over time.
And then it turned into a legit software
platform that's cloud-based and the functionality kept
evolving and improving and just kind of bootstrapped
that business, not knowing what the hell I
was doing, not knowing anything about really building
(05:58):
software or internet marketing.
And we've grown, we have thousands, and I'm
not going to say exactly, but we have
many, many thousands of paying clients.
And we have a free version that we've
given away since 2009.
I mean, it has to be half a
million people easily that we've allowed to have
the free version of our software.
And so it's been a really cool journey
because we've helped a whole bunch of people
(06:20):
around the country, around the world, and I've
met a crazy amount of people through the
software business.
So that was a super long answer to
your very simple question.
Well, what are you doing with software?
How are you finding that it's helping you
and other real estate investors kind of like
streamline the process?
So we help, the software is called RehabValuator,
and we help kind of a few different
avatars of people.
(06:41):
We help wholesalers, we help rehabbers, whether they're
doing bird deals or they're fixing and flipping,
and then we help ground up developers.
And we tackle really a couple of things,
deal analysis, deal marketing, if you need to
sell your deals, raising capital, and then full
scale start to finish project management.
So it starts with just making good decisions.
(07:02):
Whatever avatar you are, right?
You need to be able to, you're looking
at a property, whether it's a piece of
land or it's a house, you need to
be able to pull accurate data on the
property, sales comps, determine an offer, run the
basic financial feasibility.
What should I offer for this house?
How much money is it gonna make?
So we start there, and then we give
our users marketing tools.
(07:22):
Press a button, it generates a marketing flyer
that you can syndicate to social media, you
can send to your buyers list to sell
your deal if you're a wholesaler.
Press another button, we generate really intelligent, simple
funding presentations that our clients have used to
raise tens of millions of dollars.
It bridges the credibility gap.
If you're starting out and you've got, let's
say a great house, you wanna rehab, you
(07:43):
wanna approach a private lender, maybe you'll have
a lot of experience.
While you can generate a really professional, intelligent
looking presentation very easily using our software, you
put in front of your lender and it
communicates clearly that you understand the business, you
understand how the deal is structured, it talks
the private lender's language.
Here's how much money you as a private
lender are gonna make.
Here's your loan to value, and here's what
(08:04):
you learn in interest.
Here's what you learn in points.
Here's the timeline for the deal.
Very simple, very clear, but it makes our
clients look incredibly credible even if they're fairly
new to the business.
And then we apply that same concept to
the ground of development.
We can generate funding proposals for banks that
get us short-term funding and permanent funding
on the projects that we built.
(08:24):
And then there's a project management suite in
there.
Very simple, right?
The construction project management in general is most
of the tools out there are geared towards
big builders, big contractors.
They're complicated, they're clunky, they're expensive.
So we've built rehab and construction management tools
that are affordable and fairly simple to learn
(08:44):
for sort of the smaller mom and pop
investors.
Click a button, you can build out a
rehab budget.
You can store your bids there.
You can build a simple schedule.
You can track your project on an ongoing
basis.
There's a very simple accounting system.
So you could see in real time, this
is how much I've spent, this is how
much I've budgeted, this is what's left to
pay my contractors, this is how we're doing.
So things like that, right?
(09:04):
I've really just kept building this tool for
myself as my business has evolved.
I don't really look at what other people
are doing, but what we've built has resonated
with a lot of people.
How do you think that software helps reduce
the risks that overall investors face?
So in my business right now, my business
is focused around developing mixed use and apartment
(09:26):
buildings without having some sort of an analysis
tool that tells me exactly what my cash
required for the deal is, my cash on
cash return is going to be, like here
are the rents that I need to hit
in order to cover my debt.
I don't even understand how you could do
this business.
Same thing with, let's say you're a wholesaler
and you're starting in the business.
How do you make offers without having accurate
(09:47):
sales comps to show you what this property
is gonna be worth once your end buyer
renovates it?
We're certainly not the end all be all,
there's other tools, but you gotta be using
something.
Otherwise you're just, you're shooting in the dark.
Now, did you say that what you do,
does it work for land?
What kind of types of properties does it
work for?
Land, single family homes, all the way to,
(10:08):
again, in my business we use the software
for multifamily projects that are 100 plus units.
So it works for everything in between.
And what advantages do you think it has
when you're, you talk about lenders, like what
advantages does it have to help you actually
pitch the deal when you actually get the
deal?
Because we lay out for the lender the
things that they're gonna ask for anyway.
(10:29):
And we lay it out in a very
clear to navigate manner before they even ask
those questions.
So it's like, we're reading the lender's mind.
Hey, here's how much this property is gonna
be worth once they renovate it.
Here's my rehab budget.
Here's the loan to value that I'm requesting.
Here's what you're gonna earn.
Here's the timeline of the deal.
Here are the sales comps.
(10:51):
Here are the rental comps.
Here's all the data.
It lays out the deal very clearly for
the lender rather than me saying, hey, Ty,
I need to borrow $100,000 for this
house.
And now you start asking me all of
these questions and we're having this painful back
and forth.
No, I'm giving you all this information.
You still need to underwrite, right?
You still need to do due diligence on
me as a borrower, but we're getting off
(11:13):
on the right foot because I look really
professional and I'm giving you the information that
you need to start underwriting the deal.
It builds a lot of credibility.
I mean, we have crazy testimonials from people
that are like complete newbies and have been
able to secure private capital using the software.
Have been able to go out and get
a construction loan from a local bank for
a multifamily project.
It's really neat.
Does it help like evaluating different extra strategies
(11:34):
for a property?
Because once I find the right property, I
can do a lot of things with it,
right?
I could do wholesale, fix and flip.
Does it help kind of evaluate the different
extras?
Yeah, it lets you evaluate the wholesale, fix
and flip, BRR, right?
If I keep this and rent it.
Yeah, it helps you evaluate those extra strategies.
We don't do like subject, we don't do
subject to analysis and some of the sort
of more esoteric, creative financing structures in the
(11:56):
software, but sort of the basics that almost
everybody uses.
Yeah, we tackle that stuff.
Now, when it comes to comps, like what
is different about what you do with software?
If somebody is using MLS to look at
comps or Zillow or something else, like what
is it that you're doing that's so much
different than any of the methods that people
use without using your software?
Sure, sure.
I mean, we take data very seriously.
(12:18):
We're constantly improving in our data.
We also have, I think, really dynamic kind
of filtering ability inside the software that lets
you really zero in on the most relevant
comps and get rid of outliers and noise.
So I think there we were very strong.
And now a quick break to hear from
our sponsor.
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(12:38):
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consultation online to talk more at creditsuite.com
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And I don't know, look, I mean, there's
great tools out there, right?
Again, but I think what makes us unique
is sort of the, we incorporate the full,
almost a full deal process into the platform.
Minus right now, we don't have leads.
We're probably gonna build that in soon.
That's the one piece that we just haven't
(13:20):
really tackled because it's not our strong suit,
is the leads.
But once you get a lead, our platform
handles everything from deal analysis, data, comps, raising
capital, all the way through project management, completion
of the project.
I think that makes us pretty unique.
What is it doing?
And definitely a little bit more on the
raising capital piece.
So what are the different benefits or aspects
(13:40):
or features that help you with the raising
capital piece?
It starts with structuring.
How do I structure this deal to where
I can offer, if I'm approaching private capital,
for example, I need to offer a certain
rate of return.
How much me does in the bonus deal?
What kind of return can they offer to
an investor that's attractive without breaking the deal
for me?
I can play around with a couple of
(14:01):
scenarios.
Maybe I offer, again, I'm talking strictly about,
let's say I'm approaching private lender to fix
and flip a house.
Okay, I can offer purely interest.
I can offer lower interest, but maybe a
couple of points.
Maybe I don't offer an interest rate at
all.
I don't offer any points, but they offer
a profit split.
And now we're a joint venture partners.
So the first thing that we allow our
(14:21):
user to do is play around with scenarios
and structure the deal so that it's profitable
for you, but it's also attractive enough for
your private lender in order to do the
deal.
And that, once you structure the deal, that
translates into really comprehensive presentation that you put
in front of your lender.
So we don't give you like lender leads.
Private lending, as I'm sure you know, it's
(14:41):
relationship-based.
Now, again, we have pieces of the software
that you can use to present to banks.
I've personally, my business have raised at this
point, probably over $40 million in bank capital
using the software, right, in debt.
But if we're talking about strictly private lenders,
we don't give you leads.
It's on you to go out and build
those relationships.
But once you have a deal to put
in front of somebody, we give you the
(15:03):
tools to do that really intelligently and make
you look really smart.
That's kind of what we do.
You mentioned the flyers too, and I love
that.
I've never heard of a software that does
that.
What's some use cases of that, like on
wholesaling or whatever, and where they're able to
come through and then be able to put
the benefits on a flyer and then use
that for market?
So, I mean, your deal analysis translates straight
into the marketing piece in the software.
(15:24):
And then there's functionality where, I mean, I
can be at your house signing a contract
with you and I can punch in the
numbers into the software, generate a link and
blast it out to my buyers via text
or via email or put it in my
Facebook group or put it in another Facebook
group.
So you can disseminate information very quickly and
very easily about the deal.
(15:46):
And again, like when I got started in
this business, it used to drive me crazy
when wholesalers would send me a text and
they still get these texts.
I can show you my phone.
Here's an address, here's a price.
Okay, unless I know the area incredibly well,
unless I know that street, sometimes I know
the area so well in rare circumstances that
(16:07):
if I see an address and I see
a price, I'm like, all right, that's a
good deal.
But that's almost never the case, right?
So now I've got this address and I've
got this price and I've got to go
and I've got to look this stuff up
and research it and figure out whether it's
even worth calling this wholesaler back to go
look at this deal.
Well, and so I created this tool because
I was frustrated because now instead of doing
(16:28):
that, you can send all the things that
I'm going to ask you anyway.
Here's the after repair value because I've run
comps.
Here are the comps.
Here are the pictures of the property.
So you can, now I'm going as a
wholesaler ballpark repairs, but nobody's going to take
me seriously anyway because wholesalers get it wrong
completely, but you can actually use the software
to estimate repairs, send that to your potential
(16:50):
buyers list as well.
So now I, as a buyer, I'm getting
information from you that saves me time.
It helps me quicker get to a point
where I say, hey Ty, yeah, I'd like
to see this house, or maybe I'd like
to make an offer in this house if
I'm virtual.
So we're shortcutting that deal closing process because
you're conveying a lot more information quickly to
(17:12):
your lenders or to your buyers that helps
them make a decision.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, makes perfect sense.
What about on the rehab side?
Like how is it helping then to be
able to estimate cost and things like that
to get the ROI, like if they're doing
a fix and flip?
You can build repair budgets very easily.
We give you pricing guidance.
I'm a firm believer in not tying into
(17:32):
random nationwide databases and like claiming to be
able to predict your repairs for you.
I think that's a fool's errand.
We get asked for that occasionally and I've
seen some tools do that, but repairs differ
widely between city to city, level of finishes,
your quality of your subcontractors, suppliers.
So we provide tools to people.
(17:53):
Now, again, we give you templates and pricing
guidance, but what we really are good at
is, Ty, you've done a rehab or two,
you know roughly what things cost.
You can populate your costs into this template.
And when you go out and look at
deal number two or deal number three, boom,
you pull it up and you just change
the number of windows.
You change the number of doors.
You change the square feet of the house
(18:14):
and it spits off a repair estimate for
you immediately.
As a wholesaler, you can do the same
thing, but we want our users to do
a little bit of research, pick up the
phone and find out what things cost in
your market.
Go out and get some bids.
But once you do that, you can store
your data in our system.
And the second time you estimate repairs, the
third time, the seventh time, the 20th time,
(18:36):
it takes 30 seconds.
It's lightning quick.
Does the software like actually help with communication
with deal partners and people involved in the
deal?
You can add users and you can put
users in there and you can have your
partners in the software and share deals.
And you can also just easily disseminate from
the software information to people that are not
in your account.
(18:56):
Because again, you can generate unique links and
you can generate PDFs and you can generate.
So I mean, yeah, we've got some updates
coming to that as well soon.
But yeah, you can, the easiest thing is
if you've got business partners, they're in your
account, they're users.
Daniel, it seems like if I'm coming into
real estate, I'm newer in real estate, like
in somebody that's experienced doesn't have access to
(19:16):
something this powerful.
Sounds like it almost gives me like an
unfair advantage to potentially help me even be
more competitive.
Is that what you guys find as well?
Yeah, and we provide a ton of training
around it too.
I mean, I realized that early on that
especially if you're newer, it's not enough for
us to give you tools and even great
support.
You need help, you need training.
So because we're actual real estate investors, and
(19:40):
by we, I mean me, I've put together
gobs of content over the years and continue
to do it about real estate investing, about
how to do deals and also how to
use the software to do deals.
So yeah, I mean, we've become a really
great resource, I think, for somebody new because
they're coming in, they're not just getting like
a random software tool, like here, see you
(20:01):
later.
Like we're giving a ton of support behind
it and education.
And that's a powerful combination.
Do you find like, who is your user?
Is it, are they newbies?
Are they people that are experienced investors?
Are they agents?
I mean, it even sounds like this could
be, these could be powerful tools for agents
as well.
It can, I don't think we have a
ton of agents.
Any agents that are using our software are
mostly also real estate investors.
(20:23):
So we've kind of bifurcated the product in
the sense that we tracked a lot of
newer investors, but we have a user base
that's very experienced as well.
And we never hear from those people because
they're just doing deals and using our software.
We hear a lot more from our newer
investors because they need a lot more handholding
and support and we provide that.
But I would say it's both, it's both.
(20:44):
New users, unfortunately, new investors, they churn from
our software and from the business in general.
And that's one of the things that we're,
I think, really passionate about is trying to
keep those people in the business.
Like, don't give up.
Doing your first deal is really hard, but
once you do it, stick it out.
Once you get that first deal done, second
one is easier, it all clicks together.
(21:05):
So we're really good at kind of helping
newer investors, but we have a ton of
experienced investors.
And again, like we have multifamily and mixed
use developers and townhome builders that are using
our software to do business at scale.
Rehab Valuator, I mean, powerful.
I love, and I appreciate all the insight
today.
I know it's hard to like, come on,
you're like me.
I don't like to talk about like my
(21:26):
product and what I do, but I just
think it's so valuable because so many of
our audience, so many members of our audience
are in real estate or getting in or
proficiently experts in real estate.
And so we never really talked about software
and how it can kind of help shortcut
this process, help you scale easier and better.
And help you make smarter decisions.
So I really appreciate you coming on and
sharing with us today.
Yeah, absolutely, my pleasure.
(21:46):
Yeah, I tend to kind of talk more
about the real estate side, just because I
think the tools are great, but the tools
allow us to do the business.
And ultimately it's about the business and it's
about what does the business then, the tools
enable the business, the business enables the life.
So there's layers.
So yeah, I mostly tend to talk about
(22:07):
the business side of it because that's what
gets people excited.
Nobody gets excited about tools, right?
Everybody gets excited about what do the tools
allow me to do?
And that's the business.
And then the business ideally enables financial freedom
and travel and time with your kids, et
cetera, et cetera.
Daniel, everybody, anybody here that's watching, that's interested,
what should they do?
Where should they go to learn more?
If you just go to rehabvaluator.com, if
(22:31):
I was smart, I'd be wearing my shirt
right now, but I'm not, I guess I'm
not a good marketer.
So, but if you just go to rehabvaluator
.com, you can check out the software.
Again, there's a free version there that lets
you do all the financial analysis.
It's feature limited, but it's a way that
you can test drive the software.
You can use the free version forever.
And even for our free version, all you
(22:52):
do is just get the free version.
You call our office and we pick up
the phone and help you.
I have full-time people staffed in my
office whose job is to help our users.
So that's probably the best way.
And even if you sign up for the
free version, you'll get emails from me.
And again, we have a lot of free
education that we disseminate to people and content.
And we have a big YouTube channel as
(23:13):
well, where I post a lot of content
lately on real estate development, where I'm probably
one of the few people in the country
that kind of freely teaches real estate development.
It's a pretty closely guarded topic, it seems
like.
So you can check us out on, if
you just look for RehabValuator or for my
name on YouTube, you will find our channel.
I highly suggest you subscribe to that because
there's a wealth of information on the YouTube
(23:35):
channel, especially if you're interested in real estate
development, whether it's building spec homes to sell
or building, a lot of what I do
is build to rent.
I love it, Daniel.
Thanks for coming on with us today.
My pleasure, Ty.
Thanks for having me.
All right, so listen, if you're watching this,
make sure you go to rehabvaluator.com.
If you go to rehabvaluator.com, you're able
to see right there a lot of the
features, a lot of the benefits of actually
using it.
Screenshots, it's everything you'd need to be able
(23:57):
to look at it, see what it can
do and even access the free version.
It's all there, you're real, or it's all
there, rehabvaluator.com.
And if you go to the bottom of
rehabvaluator.com, then you're able to actually access
the social channels as well.
So the social media links are right down
there.
You can click, follow, it'll take less than
a minute to do that because again, they
have a unique insight that you're not gonna
typically get from a real estate investor.
(24:17):
And Daniel's got a ton of experience in
real estate development as well.
So it's really rare that you find somebody
that's actually out there doing it, built an
entire software to help him and now it
helps thousands and thousands of users.
And then also is proficient in development and
then education, provides tons of teaching and education.
So make sure you go to rehabvaluator.com
and also make sure you go to the
bottom and subscribe on the social channels and
(24:38):
make sure that you check them out on
YouTube as well.
Thank you very much for tuning in.
Take care, have a great day.
You've been listening to the Business Credit and
Financing Show with your host, Ty Crandall.
Watch for our next episode to get even
(25:00):
more insight on financing and growing your business.
And don't forget to check us out online
at creditsuite.com for even more business growth
strategies.
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