Recapping Expo West 2025: Rising Wellness Trends, Front-of-Pack Nutrition Labels, & The Great MAHA Debate

In this episode of The Business of Wellness, Jaclyn London, RD breaks down everything from Expo West 2025—the biggest trade show in natural and functional foods. From the latest wellness trends (dragon fruit, GLP-1 marketing, and caffeine + protein combos) to behind-the-scenes industry buzz (the influence of MAHA, the show's winners and losers) and updates to the FDA's proposed Front-of-Pack Nutrition Label (FOPNL), I’m giving you behind-the-scenes intel on the nutrition news you need to know about, the brands to keep an eye on, and the influencers and policy changes that are shaping the food industry today.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The top 13 trends shaping food and beverage in 2025
• The truth about front-of-pack nutrition labeling and why it’s (likely to be) a waste of time & resources
• Regenerative Agriculture Certified and the status of sustainability claims
• How brands are marketing to GLP-1 users—and why some of it is just hype
• The rise of dates, pulses, electrolytes, tropical fruit, protein everything, and more prebiotic sparkling waters
• Why single-serve snacks and aluminum cans are taking over grocery aisles
• The wildest moments from the Make America Healthy Again (MAHA) panel and what it means for the future of food policy

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction to the Business of Wellness

01:48 Expo West 2025 overview

03:00 Front-of-Pack Nutrition Labeling panel & proposed policy

12:51 Trends from Expo West 2025 - 13 trends to watch in wellness, CPG food & beverage; dietary supplements & personal care.

21:52 Emerging ingredients and innovations

29:43 The future of food marketing

30:13 The nutritional value of dates

33:03 Mochi mania: The new snack trend

36:07 Mood and morality themes in food & beverage branding

39:40 The rise of pulses and legumes

42:46 Raw honey: A functional food rebrand

44:30 Plant-based vs. animal-based products

47:28 The Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect in nutrition media

49:00 MAHA Updates: The MAHA panel, behind-the-scenes insights, updates in the RFK Jr. Agenda & the food industry's response thus far

59:26 Expo West recap and closing thoughts

Connect with Jaclyn London, RD

• Subscribe to The Business of Wellness with Jaclyn London, RD on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube
• Follow @jaclynlondonrd on

Episode Transcript

(00:06):
Welcome back to the business of wellness.
you're new here, welcome.
I'm your host, Jacqueline London, registered dietitian, author, and your go-tomyth-busting expert in the world of food, nutrition, and health.
For my longtime listeners, thank you so much for being here.
I am always so grateful for you.
and for you showing up and sharing your thoughts with me on social for newbies at atJacqueline London RD and in the reviews of this podcast on Apple podcasts, YouTube and

(00:32):
Spotify.
Here's the thing.
This podcast is where we break down wellness trends, analyze what's really happening inthe food and health care industries across the board.
And we get into the nitty gritty at the intersection of nutrition, science, business,culture and policy.
Today's episode, I really believe that this is going to be a special treat for all of youwatching right now.
We are recapping everything from

(00:52):
Expo West 2025.
What's super hot?
What is totally overhyped?
And the conversations that are shaping the future of food and wellness.
Plus, I am going to give you a little bit of behind the scenes industry gossip.
So stay tuned for that.
I believe the kids call that tea.
I'm going to spill the tea.
God, do I sound old when I say it like that?
Just stop, Jackie.
OK, anyway, we'll talk about all of the highlights of the panel that I sat on for thisevent, which was all about front of pack nutrition labeling.

(01:19):
I will also give you a sneak peek into what's new and next in CPG, a little trendforecasting.
We'll talk about the pros and the cons of all of that for both brands and consumers.
I've also got a major Maha update to share with you guys.
Lots happening there, moving at breakneck speed and some fascinating stuff and alsocompletely mundane at the same time.
So we'll get into all of that.
I also feel like there's just a lot happening with how the food industry is currentlyresponding to RFK Jr.

(01:43):
and to the Maha movement.
So we have a lot of ground to cover on that front.
As always,
Thank you for being here.
I cannot wait to hear what you think.
You can share feedback with me on social again, that's at JacquelineLondonRD or by leavinga review wherever you're listening to this right now.
And I can't wait to hear from you.
Let's dive in.
Let's talk Expo West, trends, maha.
Here we go.
If you are unfamiliar with Expo West, I feel like we need to start there.

(02:06):
Okay, Natural Products Expo West is the biggest trade show in the natural, organic andfunctional food space.
Think of it as fashion week, but for snacks, beverages and wellness products.
It's also a lot of personal care, I always forget about.
There's a lot of beauty brands that are, that attend Expo West as well as cleaningproducts.
It's where brands, both big and small, come to showcase their new products.

(02:28):
They also kind of road test some of their trends.
They hopefully catch the attention of buyers, investors, and of course, media.
It's also where you'll find everything from innovation in plant-based.
I feel like this was the epicenter of where the entire plant-based movement was born.
It's also where you'll see a lot of things about specific targeted health trends.

(02:50):
Examples, gut health, brain health, performance nutrition.
If it's launching in the health and wellness space, it's most likely going to launch atExpo West and it will probably be somewhere.
at Expo West in some capacity.
So this year I walked the floor, but the main reason that I attended the event in thefirst place was to both take meetings as well as sit on this panel about front of pack

(03:11):
nutrition labeling.
And I've got to say, let me bring you up to speed on what's happening in that space beforeI get into what we spoke about, what I talked about.
Basically, the FDA has been working on a standardized front of pack nutrition label thatwould help consumers quickly identify healthier options.
It's kind of like a shortcut version of the nutrition facts panel, but it would be on thefront of a product packaging versus the back.

(03:33):
The goal is to make it easier for people to make healthier choices without needing a PhDin nutrition label reading.
However, from what you're about to hear, I personally think that it almost has theopposite effect.
think it actually makes it seem like you do in fact need a PhD to understand nutrition.
Here's what's being proposed right now.
A simplified icon system that would flag key nutrients like calories, added sugar,saturated fat and sodium front and center on the packaging.

(03:59):
The way that this is being visualized right now is to show almost like
like an exact replica of the nutrition facts label, but only highlighting certain keyingredients.
Another alternative is a possible color coded system like green for good, red for caution,or red for stop and yellow for caution.
And using this kind of traffic light system to indicate how a product aligns with dietaryguidelines.

(04:22):
I've got to say, this is the one, this is the method that's actually used globally.
The country that stands out the most is Mexico.
And it has been relatively successful.
The thing is,
that we are not Mexico and we are not many of the countries around the world that haveattempted to use some of these programs.
So we'll get into some of the concerns there.
There's also a push toward consistency and consistency of use across the food industry.

(04:42):
So the different products would be using the same type of stylistic logo on the front ofthe package so that it could signify something that's easy to use and to apply in real
life for consumers.
In theory, I think this sounds like something that has huge potential, right?
I mean, just on its face, it sounds like great front of pack nutrition label.
Why not?
If you're one of those people who thinks they know everything about nutrition, like thepublic public health policy think tank and NGO quote unquote experts that likely weighed

(05:08):
in on this label, I think this is probably sounding like a huge win to you.
In reality, if you know anything about the data that exists about both food labeling aswell as consumer behavior, you know that this is a complete waste of time, energy and
taxpayer dollars.
Frankly, information without context does not change behavior.
We know this.
This is not like up for debate.
You know what I mean?
This is one of those things that time and time again reveals itself to be true.

(05:31):
No matter how hard we try when it comes to adding more labels to a product or to signifyhow nutritious a food product is or is not, the more confused consumers become.
I think about how many efforts have been made here in my home city of New York and it'sinnumerable.
I just think about the Mayor Bloomberg days where we did so much around the discussionabout

(05:53):
labeling and the taxes on sugar sweetened beverages and some of the implementations thathappened and a lot of this was around the idea of cultivating transparency.
Again, such a great idea in theory.
The thing is that transparency of information without context is just overwhelmed forconsumers.
It just it leaves people feeling like they're on a boat in the middle of the ocean with nolife jacket.

(06:15):
So I think it's really worth considering what we're willing to do to help
consumers prepare for these food labels for this food label change and if that includesnutrition education or not.
Because if it doesn't, then it might be something to rethink.
That's just my two cents on that.
The thing is that a lot of what was being discussed on this panel specifically was usingfront of pack nutrition labeling in the form of a barcode to drive traffic to content that

(06:40):
continues to drive brand awareness by doubling down on social and experiential contentmarketing that effectively tells
what a brand wants to tell, the story that a brand wants to tell about its product.
That sounds compelling, certainly from an industry standpoint, that sounds compelling.
That could be used for great things.
It could also be very much abused.
So I think that would depend on what exactly this would look like and what type ofinformation would be shared with consumers.

(07:03):
I also think it's worth mentioning that consumers are really drawn to values driven claimslately, but they do not always translate into meaningfully healthier choices.
It just doesn't.
happen that way.
Front of Pack nutrition labeling could easily reveal health halo marketing if it's doneright, I guess, but it can also show actually better free products if it's done right.
I just think it's more likely to be done incorrectly than it is to go well.

(07:28):
I do believe that there is something that needs to be done to help make it easier forconsumers to spot healthier options at point of sale.
This is my whole
career basically up until now when I was at Good Housekeeping and founded the GoodHousekeeping Nutritionist approved emblem.
It was entirely for this reason because I felt like there was nothing telling consumers,yes, this is a better for you choice in this category and the reason for that is XYZ.

(07:52):
Or just that you didn't even have to think about the reason that you could just havesomething there that helped you understand that this is here to signify a better for you
choice in a category that makes it easier for you to eat healthier without sacrificingtaste, time or cost.
Now, here's the thing.
It's more than okay for products not to focus on health and just focus on environmental orsustainability benefits.

(08:15):
It's also okay for your product to not necessarily be better for you, right?
Like not everything has to be better for you.
We do need products that still meet the consumer need for conscious indulgence.
I wonder if, especially right now, some of the focus of the front of pack nutritionlabeling has been specifically on calories, added sugar, and saturated fat and sodium.

(08:36):
I think this is in many ways very, I think, you know, I'm mincing words here and I'm justgoing to tell you what I think.
I think this is stupid.
I just think it's blatantly stupid and it's so short-sighted.
Americans don't know what those words mean.
They don't actually know what those words mean.
You are likely as a listener of this podcast, you I'm sure do know what those words meanbecause you've been here with me listening to this and plenty of other places.

(08:58):
If you're interested in this topic, that means you know what those words mean.
Most people do not.
A lot of people also think they do and they do not.
And so
I cannot see a world in which this meaningfully changes consumer behavior because if youdon't know the amount of calories, added sugar, saturated fat, sodium that you should be
having in a day, and you don't know the foods in which those products are most present,you're not doing all that math in your head.

(09:22):
You're not saying, well, okay, this has six grams of added sugar and this other thing has26 grams of added sugar.
And what is the amount that I'm supposed to have again?
Most people are just not doing that.
So I really just feel like this is a moment for the FDA to just snap out of it.
And that brings me to really my final point on this matter is whether or not this is goingto happen altogether.
So we sat on this panel, which was really fascinating and interesting.

(09:43):
The founder of GoodPop was on the panel with me as well as his lawyer, who was talkingabout some of the food labeling laws and he's a plaintiff lawyer.
So he was discussing a lot of the loopholes that exist in the food industry currently andhow this could work in the future and how it's currently evolving based on RFK and the
Maha movement.
And I think we definitely came to the same conclusion.
By the way, there was someone also from

(10:05):
I believe it was Interact Brands and from Kroger Health, another dietitian, all talkingabout various programs in front of packed nutrition labeling, the legalities and what's
happening in the industry right now.
To put a final point on this entire project is that since there's no one size fits allapproach and healthier choices are really best guided by clear and relevant claims that

(10:26):
align with individual health goals.
And for brands, it's really about your consumer data insights.
I think that having really broad claims on front of packaging that address what's not inthe product or the negatives about the product is useless at best, confusing at worst, and
again, a waste of taxpayer dollars.
Ultimately, prioritizing whole foods in products and in marketing and in language andcommunication is going to be key for the changing consumer landscape in 2025.

(10:52):
But just as I feel about the term healthy and the redefining and the redefining process ofthat term on food labels, the world has moved on.
Most of us already have a halo opinion of how good for us or bad for us a specific productis.
And it's based on a vibe.
Unfortunately, it's not really based on information.
You know, I was hearing something the other day that was, think, I want to say it was,it's just so random, but I want to say it was Andrew Schultz on Megyn Kelly's show.

(11:20):
I think it was actually.
And he made this statement that was
popularized by Ben Shapiro at the Daily Wire, which is facts don't care about yourfeelings.
Very much a true statement.
On the polar opposite of that, Andrew Schultz was making the point that feelings don'tcare about your facts.
And he couldn't be more right about that when it comes to nutrition specifically.
So basically, Andrew Schultz, a comedian and a dietician, feelings don't care about yourfacts.

(11:40):
So when it comes to food and nutrition, it's about a vibe.
And if you don't already perceive a product to be quote unquote, better for you, whateverthat means to you.
And again, remember, it means different things to different people than how meaningful
is this type of labeling actually going to be?
The other thing is, think it just in general plays, plays as a really undue emphasis onhealth claims, nutrient content claims, and prioritizing those whole foods, prioritizing

(12:04):
eating more real foods is where we want to shift our efforts.
So why would we take time and money and resources when, we already know that thisadministration is slimming down on resources in a big way?
Why would we take those resources and put it toward a label that is guaranteed to bemeaningless at best?
This just does not.
sounds sensible to me and I think shifting those shifting priorities to getting people toeat more real whole foods needs to be reflected in the actions that we take at the federal

(12:30):
level.
Anyway, I said all of that on this panel.
That's an update for those of you who did not get to attend Expo West and did not have theopportunity to come to this front of pack nutrition labeling panel.
I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
In the meantime, let's get into Expo West trends.
When I tell you guys that Expo West is the place to see what's up and coming in food,nutrition, wellness, everything, it does

(12:51):
not disappoint.
There are so multiple expo halls filled with products.
Honestly, it's like fashion week honestly has been so pared down over the years that I'mnow wondering if fashion week is even the right comparison.
It's like fashion week and the Super Bowl had a baby almost.
I feel like there were a number of trends that really stood out to me that I just kind ofbrain dumped into the notes app on my phone after the show.

(13:15):
So I'm going to share basically that brain dump with you now.
First trend, dragon fruit.
Dragon fruit, everything.
Dragon fruit is having a moment.
We're seeing it in bars, beverages, snack bites, you name it.
It's a fun, colorful, flavorful, tropical antioxidant, health halo that brands absolutelylove to lean into.
The thing is that a lot of the products that I've seen in the past that have dragon fruitor pataya in it typically have a ton of added sugar.

(13:42):
So it was interesting to see that this has evolved quite significantly.
There's actually quite a number of different products out there that are dragon fruitflavored that are made without added sugar or using sugar alternatives that are
non-nutritive.
From a nutritional standpoint, dragon fruit itself is very nutrient-intensive.
It packs soluble and insoluble fiber, prebiotics, high water content, and other bioactivecompounds, just like all other fruits, right?

(14:05):
But something that I learned recently, 100 grams of yellow dragon fruit has about five toseven grams of fiber.
But a medium
whole fruit, so just the pulp, but like the whole fruit of that pulp, has up to 15 to 28grams of fiber, which is basically your entire day's worth in one fruit.
Amazing.
I also discovered that only because I reacted to a video of someone eating a whole yellowdragon fruit on Instagram who was like, pardon my French listeners, but basically shitting

(14:31):
her brains out.
She just had eaten a whole yellow dragon fruit in order to get things moving and it moveda little too quickly and quite significantly.
So just a word of caution there.
I was stuck on, I'm still stuck on a little bit about the topic of dragon fruit is whatdoes it taste like?
Like what does dragon fruit taste like to you?
And I don't just mean, you know, yellow or pink or white.
I can't really describe it.
It's kind of Melanie.

(14:52):
It's kind of Kiwi like it's a little bit of watermelon.
I think that's an interesting component of things is that when I say that it's reallyflavorful, mean, yeah, it's flavorful, but what exactly is it that I'm tasting?
did a consumer panel with Sunsweet back in October when I was at Fency and
I was talking about how something that is unique about prunes is that we don't often talkabout the flavor of prunes.

(15:13):
Like what is the unique flavor?
When I say, and just to give you guys a little bit of context for that, when I say GrannySmith apple, we all have a very specific back of the mouth kind of sour, but sweet, really
refreshing, really crisp, really bright and vibrant taste that we associate with that,right?
But we haven't really put words to what we taste when we taste.

(15:37):
I love prunes, but I feel like something that's missing from their messaging has been...
all about the way that they taste, because we're more focused on the rebranding andbringing them to young people and talking about the health benefits.
And all of that is obviously great.
It's just that we don't really know how to describe what they taste like.
And I think that's a really important component of how people experience food, of course.
So we need to know what they taste like in order to be able to describe it to people.

(16:00):
And we need really specific adjectives in order to do that.
I feel the same way about dragon fruit.
could use, I granted, it would be, think dragon fruit would like to be at the place thatprunes are currently at.
It's just something to think about as products that have dragon fruit in
them move forward.
Trend number two, caffeinated everything and caffeine plus protein combos.
From sparkling energy drinks to caffeinated yogurt, yes you did hear that correctly,brands are doubling down on caffeine.

(16:24):
I think that was probably the ingredient of the expo.
I think the real twist of it is that combo but it actually makes all of the sense and inmany ways I'm surprised we haven't gotten there yet because what is a latte?
A latte is caffeine plus protein.
I feel like smacking my forehead a little bit like duh, like hello, why have we not gottenhere yet?
We should have been here all along.
Anyway, I like how it's leaning into human physiology.

(16:44):
I like that about this trend.
It's having food with caffeine means really less jitters, but it also means a more steadyrise in energy levels and a more prolonged rise in energy levels.
So you can feel that feeling of energy for longer.
I think it's brilliant.
Back to the yogurt for a second.
I see this in Tillamook's collaboration with Stumptown.
Voico's also has a line of,

(17:05):
Pro fuel that one's more like a yogurt drink.
It's really geared toward that more active consumer I think this makes all the sense I'mvery much here for this trend the third regenerative agriculture certified you guys when I
tell you that this is the next USDA organic Take notes.
Okay, cuz this is a big one and I could not believe how much I was seeing thiscertification on front of pack of food products by the way back to the front of pack

(17:31):
nutrition labeling you see how
kind of DOA this FDA label will be ultimately because if we have front of pack nutritionlabels with so many other types of third party verifications and claims, marketing and
food is absolutely everything and it's been prioritized at the cost of so many otherthings.
So right away, just seeing regenerative agriculture certified as an up and coming thirdparty label means where are we going to even put that front of pack nutrition label?

(17:59):
Right?
Where is the real estate?
Where regenerative agriculture certified definitely the new buzzword?
Brands are emphasizing soil health.
carbon sequestration and biodiversity.
It's overseen by the Regenerative Organic Alliance, which was founded by organizationslike the Rodale Institute, Dr.
Bronner's and Patagonia.
And it's considered one of the most comprehensive standards for regenerative agintegrating principles of again, soil health and land management, animal welfare, fairness

(18:24):
for farmers and workers from the regenerative organic certified website.
Let me just give you the overview established in 2017 by a group of farmers, leaders andexperts in soil health, animal welfare, social fairness, called regenerative.
Organic Alliance or ROA.
By adopting regenerative organic practices on more farms around the world, we can createlong-term solutions to the climate crisis, factory farming, and fractured rural economies.

(18:46):
The ROC label is designed to go beyond organic standards by ensuring that food and fiberproducts contribute positively to environmental and social sustainability.
Guys, if you're interested in this topic, I highly suggest going back to my episode withthe co-founders of the spare food company, Jeremy Kay and Adam Kay, their brothers who
have committed to creating products in the regenerative ag space.
And they started this with their sparkling tonic, which upcycles whey protein, which is abyproduct of milk production to be made into this other higher protein drink, one of the

(19:14):
OGs of the sparkling tonics in the space.
My question is, despite this label being everywhere,
How much will this actually resonate with consumers in real life?
To be honest, I, I don't have this off the top of my head, but like how much do, does USDAOrganic even necessarily register with consumers as a label in its own right versus as
something that now indicates that the product will be more expensive?
I feel like I'm hearing the regenerative ag term with increased frequency and that's in nosmall part because of the maha movement.

(19:41):
But I think the bigger question mark when it comes to CPG food that's
branded as regenerative is how actually beneficial for human health can all of thesethings actually be?
Again, it just sounds like another sustainability claim to me that may or may not have animplication on human health.
It's only gonna be as good for your health as what the ingredients in that productactually are and the amount of and frequency with which you as an individual consume that

(20:03):
product.
Going back to Jeremy and Adam's beverage, which is such a smart idea and really such acool product.
To make the beverage taste good, they've got added sugar in there.
It's in the form of honey and it's up to five grams per beverage, which is honestly prettygood as far as beverages go, but that can add up.
And we know that most of us are over consuming added sugar.
So it's not really the best moment to have a product that is a beverage that contains anyadded sugar at all.

(20:27):
It is again, significantly better compared to obviously sugar sweetened sodas, which forthe same amount could be over 26 grams, basically your whole day's worth of added sugar in
one can.
But there's also three types of juices in each type of beverage not labeled as added sugarbecause fresh squeezed juice can do that even though it's technically a concentrated
source of added sugar.
This is a lot of jargon to basically just say the more products of those that you consumethroughout the day, the more likely it is that you're still going to be consuming foods

(20:54):
high in added sugar, saturated fat and sodium, whether they're regenerative, organiccertified or not.
And ultimately all that can be doing more harm than good.
So here we are with yet another sustainability certification, something that if it has thesuccess of USDA Organic will seem almost like a mandatory cost of entry for consumer
packaged goods.
And I just, I don't see that as a net benefit on helping Americans get healthier.

(21:16):
And I don't know that it's going to matter that significantly to most consumers.
Although granted, that's the entire thing about natural products Expo West is that itreally is speaking to a kind of 1 % crowd.
Cause these are the
food products of the 1%.
These are already upper echelon of the natural organic, the wellness space.
This is like Gwyneth Paltrow's food show.
This is not hoagies and beer.

(21:38):
This is CBD and mushroom gummies.
That's what we're talking about here.
Just a little food for thought on that one.
All right, my next trend, electrolytes, sparkling everything and prebiotics.
Speaking of sparkling tonics, hydration meets gut health.
I'm so...
I'm freaking tired of this you guys.
I really can't with this anymore.
If I saw one more sparkling tonic beverage at this show, I really felt like I was gonnascream.

(22:00):
By the end of the show, I also realized that the ingredients have shifted quite a bit.
It's not really just about the prebiotics, although that's very much still here.
It's really about the electrolytes.
Electrolytes are the new prebiotics.
Electrolyte enhanced waters as a category, still growing.
Now they're merging with sparkling beverages and prebiotic fiber for extra digestionsupport.
The space is getting super crowded and I think this is going to be an interesting one forbrands in the space because I got to say there were some really huge like build out brands

(22:27):
like ones with huge indoor installations for their booth setup.
And there's lots of different versions of this product.
The truth is that these are wholly unnecessary.
I if you're a long-term listener of this podcast, yeah, there's a time and place forthese.
There's,
plenty of reasons that I can cite that people might want these if you're pregnant andlactating in some cases, if you're an athlete in some cases, if you are someone that just

(22:50):
has lower serum sodium levels, then absolutely there's a use case for these.
But for most people, we are consuming too much sodium.
We just are.
We're over consuming this nutrient.
So the idea that you should add more in the form of an electrolyte beverage is honestlyabsurd.
And it's a trend that we know has been quite significantly led by the brand element LMNT.
You know how I feel about that.

(23:11):
It's yet another way that we are ignoring the data on a topic and choosing to just doubledown.
It's also really interesting to see, given that if you are running a marathon, the mosteffective way to consume electrolytes is through Gatorade because of the presence of
carbohydrates.
You need those carbs to efficiently get those electrolytes in you faster and to help youfeel normal and basically replete what you're missing, replete those losses and help your

(23:36):
muscles and nerves contract normally.
perform as they need to.
These products do not have sugar.
Yes, that appeals to someone like me who is going to be out there saying, yeah, this isgreat for the everyday consumer, even though the everyday consumer doesn't need extra
electrolytes.
But the one area, the one place in which added sugar is kind of essential is if you'retargeting the group that would otherwise need additional electrolytes.

(24:02):
So this really makes no sense.
And yet the food industry going full steam ahead.
on the electrolytes doubling down.
There's other sparkling waters that are still on that prebiotic probiotic train.
One of the more interesting products that I saw this show is really in the sparklingspace, clean, simple eats protein.
They're ready to drink beverages.

(24:22):
They are making clear protein sodas.
So like instead of your core power, your fair life, which is in milk form, even if it'slactose free, clear protein, it's exactly like what I'm saying.
It's clear.
It's like a clear liquid, but with added protein in there.
This is
I can't stress enough how innovative this is in many different ways because when I workedin the hospital, we would look for products like this all the time that were tasty for

(24:43):
patients because there was basically only one brand at the time that I was working inpatient.
I can't remember the name of it right now, but it was so useful because when you're notfeeling well, but we need to get more protein into you to help you heal.
Having a clear liquid product is huge because you're not really in the mood for thingslike a milkshake depending on who you are.
Or at least if you are in the mood for milkshake, you want to be able to have one forbreakfast and then something different.

(25:05):
for lunch or dinner.
You need variety when it comes to products like these.
On the flip side, when I went to go read the ingredients of a product like this, Ithought, gosh, that's a lot of like, you know, isomaltosaccharide.
Like there's a lot of sugar alcohols in here, which can be kind of difficult for people totolerate when they consume these in large amounts.
And the serving sizes of these products are kind of big in a good way.

(25:28):
And if you like the taste of them, if you can tolerate these additives.
So there's just something to think about there.
Because I think it is
It's generally a great and really innovative product.
think the ready to drink beverages were super interesting to me because a lot of themagain have that caffeine plus protein combo in the form of a beverage and they're clear
liquid and they're sparkling.
I tried one that was like a coconut flavor.

(25:48):
The only downside to me is that there's a very slight stevia aftertaste to it.
If you're a listener of this podcast, you must've heard me complain about this before.
just can't, I can't stand the stevia aftertaste.
However, it wasn't so powerful that I didn't drink it.
Would I repeat?
purchase this type of thing, even though I didn't purchase it at the show.
Maybe, depends on the use case, depends what I'm in the mood for.

(26:09):
By the way, they are a huge influencer-y brand.
I feel like I first heard about them from someone who asked me a question about them onInstagram.
So definitely lots of movement in that brand and in that category in general.
But I really do think that it's a very innovative product.
If you just take it from the microcosm of our national obsession with protein, the needfor different types of products that aren't necessarily that dairy or

(26:31):
dairy based or dairy light consistency.
And if you just think about the variety in which we consume products that contain addedprotein, I think this has a ton of potential.
All right, let's get into GLP-1 support marketing.
The weight loss conversation around GLP-1 medications, Ozempic, Wacovi, ZetBound, ischanging how brands position their products.

(26:52):
More functional foods are now marketed as GLP-1 friendly with high protein, sometimes highfiber.
blood sugar, stabilizing quote unquote ingredients that really is protein and fiber.
All I can say about this is to be wary of the supplements that are making these claims.
You are probably in good hands with the food products making these claims.
And I say that because food making claims like these are going to be high in protein, likeyogurts with added protein powder.

(27:15):
It's going to be your things like clear protein that I was just talking about could easilyget away with this protein bars, basically anything with extra protein and or fiber to a
lesser extent, but maybe some of the electrolyte boom.
is related to GLP-1s because there's this thinking in the food industry that's like, let'smaximize the hydration because GLP-1 users are consuming less overall, so they may be

(27:36):
susceptible to dehydration.
And that's true, right?
Do they need necessarily added electrolytes?
Maybe not.
The thing is, you need more protein on a GLP-1 definitively.
And because you can often use a little GI support in helping you stay regular by addingmore fiber and of course drinking more water, all of these do make sense in some capacity.
Since portions are also significantly impacted by the rise of GLP-1s, there's also a boomin the single serve category, which I have noticed across the snack space and that value

(28:02):
proposition is already somewhat baked into the products that are going to be present orlaunching at X-Bowest in the first place.
I'm confident that you as a listener of this podcast know that all of this is justmarketing.
If you're a brand listening to this podcast though, and you're wondering if you should getinto this space, my advice to you would be the following.
Please don't do it for the sake of doing it.
because things can always change on a dime.

(28:22):
We don't know the future of regulation around GLP-1s and whether or not they'll be coveredby insurance in what capacity.
We also don't know the long-term safety data that may be published.
And guys, I am saying that with an extreme caveat because I really believe in thesemedications as a general statement.
I don't always believe in how they're being used, how they're being misused, frankly, butI believe in the medication

(28:46):
on the whole as a category.
But I am saying that there's just a lot of unknowns.
This is a very new product innovation for the pharmaceutical industry in the weight lossspace.
It's not new when it comes to diabetes, but it is new for weight loss.
So I don't know that you need to go all in with all of the products geared towards GLP-1users.
You're doing it when it makes sense, when it is a natural fit for your product, but do nottry to stuff new product innovation dollars behind a GLP-1 product.

(29:14):
if it's not a natural fit for your brand.
If anything, I would consider putting marketing dollars behind an existing product thattargets a GLP-1 population.
If you already work for a Greek yogurt company and you want to leverage your proteincontent for the GLP-1 user, that's great.
But don't tell me make candy bars and now you're going to launch a GLP-1 product because Ithink that could easily result in a colossal waste of money, time, resources.

(29:36):
Since the trajectory of how this industry will impact the food industry still remainssomewhat unclear.
We need more time on this one.
The next trend.
Dates as the new natural sweetener.
Move over honey and maple syrup.
Dates are the star of the natural sweetener category this year.
Do I sound like an announcer?
They're being used everywhere.
Honestly, they're being used in bars, baking mixes, even beverages as a whole foodsweetening alternative.

(30:00):
Listen, I love this.
I couldn't be more obsessed with dates.
I mean, honestly, if you are around me for 24 hours, you will see me eat a significantnumber of dates.
I mean, really, I'm in my date era, if you will.
It's a bizarre thing to say.
Whatever, it's also true.
I can put them on anything and everything.
Here's something I don't know if we talk about enough when we talk about dates.
They are a fresh fruit.
They're also shelf stable and they don't impact blood sugar the way a dried orconcentrated source of sugar might despite being high in total carbohydrates.

(30:24):
And that's because they're also super high in fiber.
I love the variety of products being made with dates because in many ways it replicates ahome cooking trend of using dates to make other sweet dishes when you're baking or
cooking.
The only thing, the only word of caution.
I would provide is that if you're making candy or baked good with dates and you're alsoadding sugar, it's worth considering the nutrient density of that product as a whole

(30:45):
versus buying into the marketing of dates and believing it's just universally beneficialfor you.
There's still going to be plenty of crap being made with dates being marketed as betterfor you simply because of the presence of dates in that product.
The next trend, mochi mania.
Mochi is going mainstream.
We are seeing this in everything from frozen snacks to protein enhanced mochi bites.

(31:06):
Expect to see this chewy, fun texture pop up everywhere.
Here's the thing.
I loved this when I saw mochi snacks in a few places because I absolutely love personallythe texture and the consistency of mochi.
Do you remember handles and those places that you would get the frozen yogurt with thetoppings bar?
God, I love those places.
I feel like they still exist, but they used to really have a moment, 2010s-ish.

(31:27):
Anyway, the extent to which mochi is being used as
marketing buzzword on products formerly known as being made with rice flour.
Like we're being totally duped, right?
When I saw these rice snacks branding themselves as mochi snacks, I was like, wait asecond.
I can't.
Come on.
There's nothing different about the flavor or about the nutrition then.

(31:48):
No, there's not.
answer to that is no, there is not.
Simply by taking the word mochi and swapping it in for the word rice is making the samesnack, but just with a slightly different brand.
That's some
Jedi mind stuff from a marketing standpoint.
I also understand it because you could easily see a Southeast Asian food company thinking,okay, Americans are really into mochi.
Let's just call it mochi instead of rice.

(32:10):
Sweet rice flour isn't exactly the most nutrient dense ingredient.
I'd still rather you swap white flour based snacks for options that are higher in ahundred percent whole grains and or pulses and legumes.
But my bottom line is that it's really better as an ice cream topping versus a health,halo-y snack.
If you make a mochi snack.
Remember that, please.
We used to use this on ice cream and on toppings bars in our little frozen yogurt era.

(32:31):
Let's stick with that.
Let's not try to rebrand the mochi as some sort of health food.
It doesn't need a health halo.
It's just a delicious, squishy, yummy consistency snack.
That's it.
Mood and morality branding across the board at Expo West was fascinating to me.
The language around food is definitely shifting.
Brands are tapping into emotional well-being in a huge way, but they're doing it through avariety of different methods.

(32:53):
One example of this is a coffee brand I came across called Happy, which was launchingtheir new cold brew ready to drink cans.
The coffee was honestly pretty solid.
They donate some of their proceeds.
proceeds to NAMI, which is National Alliance on Mental Illness, and their biggest brandambassador from what I can tell is Robert Downey Jr.
Love everything about this mission and love the leveraging of the main active ingredient,back to caffeine, as something that can benefit mental health, which it absolutely can,

(33:18):
certainly in the short term.
The question I have on a product like this is who is buying the product specifically forthe mental health benefits?
Probably not many people.
It's a nice to have, it's not a need to have.
So how much of your profit can you relinquish if a few people will remain loyal customersif the sole reason for being there is the NAMI relationship?
Because ultimately people buy food products for taste and cost.

(33:41):
Much further down on that list is health.
then beyond all of that is some of these more niche, minute influences on how we purchasefood, which is things like this, values-based reasons.
for purchasing products.
I love the mental health focus.
So please don't get me wrong when I say this.
And I love bringing mental health into the conversation about nutrition.
I think that's really important.
I'm just not sure from a CPG standpoint how this will stand up unless the coffee isabsolutely out of this world or the flavors and flavor combos really significantly step it

(34:10):
up.
Coffee makes everyone happy, unfortunately for the brand happy.
If you're a coffee drinker, it makes you happy.
So branding one type of coffee as...
happy is not necessarily a point of difference.
The other thing I want to mention just on this topic at large, mood branding that'sentirely born out of what I see as a liquid death inspired vision for the beverage

(34:33):
category, right?
That's liquid death for those who are unaware.
To me, liquid death is an absolutely brilliant brand and brand case study.
It is not easy to replicate, nor should it be directly replicated.
So many coffee and beverage brands leveraging the term death
You guys, I'm not even kidding.
That's a real thing.
Leveraging the term death.
Another snack brand, Evil Snacks, which is making snacks out of banana flour.

(34:56):
And I cannot see a single way in which that brand name makes sense for the product.
It's literally a sustainably sourced banana flour, or they also have another another lineof products.
It's mushroom flour based.
What?
The branding of Sinfully Good as a tagline feels equally 1990 and completely misguided in2025.
It's just way too esoteric.

(35:17):
for most consumers and it reminds me of chocolate commercials in the 90s.
Can't you see a white woman in her feet going like, hmm, with a dove, you know what Imean?
One of those dove mini squares.
Sinfully delicious, what is happening?
Brands would be really wise to use mood and morality.
Death.
Happy, sinful.

(35:38):
You'd be very wise to use this more selectively.
Only use these words in ways that enhance your marketing and that add to your sense ofhumor.
What makes Liquid Death successful?
Their entire brand tone of voice.
The way that they have been able to tap into humor and to essentially make fun ofthemselves as a category.
That's what makes them special.
They're basically like water is water.
They know that and they're making fun of the fact that we all know that too.

(36:02):
They have put it in a can and called it Liquid Death and now it's just kind of cool to beseen drinking it.
I just, cannot say enough good things about them as a brand.
They are one of the smartest out there.
Their valuation reflects that.
I understand the tendency of other brands across the industry to piggyback on thatsuccess, but it does not work for everyone.

(36:22):
And it certainly is not the right tone to strike for every type of product, right?
Sinfully good is not a statement that should ever be associated with fucking bananaflower.
I'm so sorry.
just, who made you think that sinful was like a good,
word to use with banana flour.
Only use the good, bad, happy, wonderful, amazing when it really makes sense for yourproduct and in a way that does not stick to the nutritional content of the product itself,

(36:49):
okay?
Because that's really important.
That's why Liquid Death gets away with it.
That's why they are seen as brilliant and hilarious rather than shaming and weird.
It's because what they're saying is that
Our bodies are 60 % water.
Everything in life is made up of water.
They're just taking the world's most basic element and putting it into a can.
Instead of saying water gives us life, they're saying it's liquid death.

(37:11):
Stop trying to be them.
Okay, by the way, on the topic of a sense of humor, Midday Squares, one of my new favoritebrands, I saw them at Expo West and I can't again say enough good things about them.
They based their entire booth at Expo around the cost of cocoa.
saying, Coco stole our booth because the cost was so high that they went with simplebranding on the design of their expo booth.
It's not quite morality or mood, but it is giving you a very specific tone of voice.

(37:35):
It's the we're in it with you vibe versus the let's hop on a trend vibe, which is tonallycompletely wrong right now.
Next on my list is pulses and legumes.
Guys, I mean, if you've been following me for a while now, you know I can't shut up aboutthis.
I really can't.
Beans, peas, lentils, chickpeas, they're not new.
Of course, they're as old as time.
But they're getting a major glow up in snack foods, pasta alternatives, high protein,everything.

(37:57):
The rise of protein has been good to the lowly bean.
You know what I mean?
All I can say to this is fucking finally, honestly.
It's about damn time.
I remember calling 2016 the year of the pulse because the United Nations did at the time.
We finally arrived in a place where food companies are following suit and actually makingchips and baked goods using pulse flour.
Here's the thing.
I've been critical of bean brownies and shakey everything in the past, but I want toclarify for you what I mean by that.

(38:22):
It's mainly because of the marketing and not the product itself.
I just find it annoying how the whole internet is always like, this is a brownie, but it'smade from cauliflower.
Can we just call a spade a spade?
It's a cauliflower brownie.
I mean, not everything needs to be made out of cauliflower and brownies are certainlyleading that charge.
Can we just call things what they are?
And at the same time, at the same time.
Using more nutritious ingredients to make foods using flavors we love that have beenhistorically more indulgent to us is innovation, especially in this category, because what

(38:52):
is unique about pulses is that they add fiber and protein in one food, in one ingredient.
The benefit of that is to have brownies that will be ultimately higher in protein andfiber.
Even if you don't actually change the whole added sugar content per serving, you aregetting a more satisfying brownie.
So if you do like the flavor,
and you are willing to try it or at least occasionally consume that product with a flourthat is gonna be more nutrient dense, one made from black beans, then you are gonna be

(39:19):
more satisfied from that food on the whole.
is it gonna be the same as a regular brownie?
Absolutely not.
And should you absolutely have a brownie when you're really in the mood to eat one?
Yes, a real brownie, for sure.
It's a little bit of a confused space in which to play because if your added sugar contentis still gonna be high, how nutritious can you actually be?
I think it's almost like a starting spot.

(39:40):
in the industry.
How can we innovate on this from here and make this into a more nutritious product?
We got to start somewhere.
Also, lots of talk about the dietary guidelines for 2025, which I just read this morningmight be changing.
Something that was proposed in the dietary guidelines advisory committee's report,scientific report, was a lot about beans and legumes and pulses.
So a lot of focus on pulses now.

(40:01):
And I think that can only be great for US farmers and can only be great for human health.
Both things can be true at the same time.
In this case, beans being the perfect example.
pulses are the OG of regenerative ag.
So with all of this talk about regenerative agriculture certified, how do they play a rolein this?
And because they're actually a real whole food and not some bullshit impossible burgertype of product, I think we need to have a North Star on this.

(40:26):
if there was going to be, if I was going to make a claim about having a North Star when itcomes to regenerative agriculture, it's look no further than the category of pulses.
All right, next.
We already talked about dragon fruit.
But I want to come back to this a little bit because tropical flavors are in.
It's like I'm thinking about those like memes in versus out.
Tropical flavors are here.
They're everywhere.
Passion fruit, guava, calamansi, coconut-flavored flavors are showing up in new andunexpected ways.

(40:51):
The best thing I tasted at Expo West was a freeze-dried coconut snack that you, that I wastold you cannot yet get here in the U.S., which is obnoxious, but such is life.
I believe they are from Southeast Asia, and I am going to find a way to get these to us.
me on the dark web trying to get the freeze-dried coconut.
don't know.
Stay tuned.
Next on my list, have the aluminum can boom.

(41:12):
Single use plastics.
Go away.
And aluminum cans sit right next to me.
I don't know what I'm saying at this point, but more brands are moving into cannedbeverages, even for things like
coffee and smoothies.
I'm not at all surprised by this, right?
Because we've seen this trend building for the last few years and I think it'll onlycontinue to grow as we learn more about the impact of microplastics on human health.
But at the same time, anything you remove from a product is only as good as what it'sreplaced with.

(41:36):
So you can easily see someone in five years being touted as some, you know, amazing,brilliant whistleblower for discovering that aluminum cans contain XYZ ingredient that's
killing you.
In reality, what will still remain the same is that we can't always use glass foreverything.
It's unrealistic.
I break shit all the time.
As I was recording this podcast, broke a glass five minutes ago before I startedrecording.
We also need convenient solutions for real life that don't mean that, you know, we're ourhands are bleeding as we try to record the podcast, we're picking up glass from the floor.

(42:04):
There's that.
We also need more solutions to help us consume more of the foods that we enjoy and thatare beneficial to our health.
So hats off to cans.
Let's see where this one goes.
Raw honey.
Raw honey is on the rise.
Raw honey is getting a functional food rebrand, although you could argue I think it'salways been baked in.
It's positioned as an immune booster, an energy source, and even a gut health aid.

(42:26):
I love honey.
There's some decent research on honey and health benefits, but the way that the foodindustry, the natural products industry has taken these health benefits and exploited them
into something that they're not is wild.
It's also all over social media.
Everyone is eating the raw honey basically straight from the jar as a dip for their datesand butter.
I mean, it's a lot.

(42:46):
It's a lot.
It's very sticky also just to throw that part in there.
All I have to say about this one is first, honey is still added sugar.
Let's not forget about that.
Ultimately, the benefits of honey can still be outweighed by the negative impact of overconsumption of added sugar in real life on human health.
We cannot get away from that fact.
Also, the products in which raw honey is present are questionable in their own right.

(43:09):
Have you guys seen this brand?
Honey mamas, I'm so sorry to call them out, but I just have to.
The serving for one bar is a third of a bar.
This bar is like an inch big in the first place.
It's completely absurd.
If you're making products like these, I'm talking to you.
If you are making products like these in which you need to make the serving size a quarteror a third or a half of a single serve item, you've lost the plot.

(43:32):
You need to reformulate.
That's really all I have to say about that.
All right, for our 13th trend, more meat and tallow.
but still lots of plants.
Okay.
The plant based everything trend is not dead.
I just want to announce that because there's definitely a lot of plants at this show.
And if we think about expo West as being a place where products are launched and trendsstart to percolate, that means a couple of years out, we will be seeing these products

(43:55):
everywhere.
So it's just something to think about because there, expo West is, is technically veryahead of where the market is going.
A lot of tallow based skincare.
That was interesting to me.
Lots of grass fed meat, the skincare, the collagen packed foods, the
colostrum of it all.
it's not an either or situation is really what I can glean from that.
Plant-based innovation is still strong, but especially in snacks and dairy alternatives,for sure it's there.

(44:18):
I'm here for either of these two sides of the same coin, but it's enough with theconflation of one versus the other being associated with unadulterated.
It's not that simple.
If it were that simple, we wouldn't have 75 % of Americans being overweight or obese.
If it were that simple that one type of ingredient, let's say plant-based oils like seedoils, animal-based fats like beef tallow, being the be-all and all cure-all for things.

(44:45):
Interestingly, on the topic of seed oils, the conflation of seed oils with horrible foryour health, not only is it wrong, but every week I am reminded of how incredibly wrong it
is.
New study just came out last week.
showing that swapping butter for seed oils can reduce risk of all-cause mortality and riskof death specifically from heart disease and cancer.
So tell me when enough is enough of the just blatant lying about one single ingredientversus actually looking at foods on the whole.

(45:10):
Because you'll never catch me saying that the foods in which seed oils are present aregood for your health.
I'm never gonna say that.
But to single out this one specific ingredient when research shows us the opposite aboutthat ingredient is just ridiculous at this point.
This is why I always say that any ingredient is as good for your health or as negativeimpacts for your health as the amount of and frequency with which you consume it and the

(45:31):
context in which it's consumed.
Seed oils on their own are not harming your health.
Not if you're using your seed oil to make your broccoli, okay?
Seed oils when consumed in the form of ultra processed packaged foods that are high inadded sugar, saturated fat, sodium,
These are going to be the foods that ultimately, when you consume them frequently in largequantities over time, are going to derail your health.

(45:51):
That is just a statement of fact.
The presence of seed oil is not making the difference there.
And this is what is currently driving me nuts about the RFK agenda so far, is going onSean Hannity's show and sitting down at Steak and Shake and having their beef tallow
fries.
It is honestly such a stupid way of speaking to Americans and gaslighting people.
It's making Americans think that you have done something or

(46:12):
influenced this new wave of products where people are RFKing their french fries by usingbeef tallow instead of seed oils.
okay.
Deep fried foods are still deep fried foods.
They're still foods that you should not be consuming in excess.
We know that french fries are not the most nutritious food and saying that they're betterfor you.

(46:34):
by changing the type of oil in which this highly refined deep fried breaded carbohydrateis fried in is going to make the difference in someone's health is absolutely insane and
it's insulting.
Anyway, that was my rant on that topic.
That's not quite related to Expo West, but you know, it felt like the moment to just keepgoing with that.
I don't know if anyone caught RFK on Sean Hannity on that topic.

(46:54):
I'm going to hopefully cover a little bit more of that later in the episode.
So definitely stay tuned.
I would love to hear your thoughts on that as well.
Anyway.
Lots of trends, lots of up and comers.
There's room for both plant and animal based products.
It's ultimately going to be a question of what else is in that product that makes orbreaks the nutritional quality overall of the product itself.
And then on an individual level, it's ultimately always going to come down to the amountof the product you eat, how often you consume it, and the context in which it's consumed.

(47:20):
Remember that.
I promised you the tea and I'm here to spill it.
All right.
First term, Gelman amnesia effect.
was coined by the author and physicist Michael Crichton, who described how experts in aparticular field often notice glaring errors when reading media coverage about their area
of expertise.
However, they still tend to trust the same publication on other topics.

(47:43):
Often those topics are outside of their expertise, forgetting how unreliable it was intheir domain.
I am experiencing this profoundly, except I think I may be having the opposite.
of that.
It's making me feel like I can't trust any publication.
I don't know if anyone can relate to this, particularly if you work in nutrition, becauseit would be so amazing to say that everything that's happening with Maha at the moment,

(48:08):
the Make America Healthy Again movement, it'd be so amazing to be able to say, it's just,you know, the far left is covering this inaccurately.
No, because the right is covering this inaccurately too.
It is full scale media mayhem.
cesspool of confusion and inaccuracy and they would be wise to hire some dietitians tofact check some of the things that they are writing about.
But I digress.

(48:29):
The point of me sharing any of that with you is because I attended the Maha panel at ExpoWest.
Here's the most interesting thing about the panel.
The room was empty and I just want to say to me that's an indictment on on frankly
conference itself, it's so rarely their fault, right?
Like you're so busy at a conference, you have a million things to do, a million things tothink about.
And particularly if you're a buyer or you are a presenter or you are a panelist on adifferent topic as I was, this was after my panel, so I had the luxury of being able to

(48:58):
attend.
Or even if you're just someone who's there for the day and you want to maximize yourability to go to all of the product halls, it's really not your fault.
I don't even want to say it like that.
What I really mean here is just that the actual panel itself was not really publicized.
by New Hope slash Informa, who are the company and the media entity, the trade mediaentity that puts on Expo West.

(49:19):
I get the sense that because Maha is a now has become a Trump administration alignedmovement, that there was this feeling of we don't want to elevate this too much on the
part of New Hope and Informa.
Guys.
I don't want to sign a sentiment to an organization.

(49:41):
But I do, have seen this type of thing before.
It's not my first rodeo in this.
And I get the sense that because they're now identified as being of the right, that therewas this hesitation around promoting the event.
On the other hand, the other thing that happened, and I'm not sure that this wasintentional at all.
In fact, I'm sure it wasn't intentional is that the panel itself started a half an hourlate and that wasn't the fault of the panelists.

(50:05):
They were there, but the
The panel was sponsored by Gaia.
Okay, Gaia Herbs, they're a supplement company, which right there is, you know, says a lotabout what's happening with Maha and supplements.
I was struck by how few people had attended already a long session.
was tapped on to the end of another session.
I happened to catch it because a colleague of mine alerted me to the fact that this panelwas happening at all.

(50:28):
Otherwise, I really wouldn't have known.
That's how obscure it was.
That's how hidden away it was.
And I do think that it's really something to think about if you are
listening to this by chance and you work for New Hope or Informa, that it's worthconsidering that just as Michael Jordan said, Republicans buy sneakers too, Republicans
buy supplements too, Republicans buy food too, okay?
Just because this movement has been aligned with a president that the left, people whodominate these types of spaces does not like, does not mean that it's not a reality for

(50:57):
consumers and that it's still worth promoting this type of event because we need to know
all sides and all aspects of who is influencing policy, who is against policy influencesand what are the different opinions in a space?
We can't keep doing this thing that we've done for too long, which is be so precious withspeech.
We have to let people talk and have open dialogues about things.

(51:19):
It is costing us significantly in so many areas of life.
So that's just my little PSA on that topic.
I really think that this panel should have been promoted.
The panel was moderated by someone that I was actually, I met
last October at a dinner at Supply Side West, which is also put on by New Hope Informa,and also was a dinner that I was at at Expo West, which I'll get to in just a second.

(51:41):
He's lovely and was a great moderator and did a really good job.
And I think asked some really interesting questions on the topic of Maha.
One thing that he was really keen to ask, which for the people who do attend thisconference, was an important question was, it seems like the Maha platform, RFK Jr.
as health secretary, that this could be really beneficial.
for the natural products industry, for the people who are attending the conference.

(52:04):
And that at the same time, they were hearing it from a messenger that felt veryuncomfortable, that messenger being Trump, right?
So it's really just saying the quiet part out loud.
I honestly felt like the combo of Cali Means, of course, of course, does Cali Means notgo, he's literally everywhere.
He's everything everywhere all at once.
Vani Hari, the food babe, and Del Bigtree, who was the former RFK communications chiefduring his presidential run, the pit-

(52:28):
a bit intense.
They come off in person very similarly to how they come off on television, which is likethey're yelling at you.
Like they are constantly yelling at you, leaning heavily into fear-based messaging aroundfood, chemicals, public health policies, most of which coming from these folks are not
grounded in reality.
But they give a glimpse into the potential reevaluation of the Graz loophole, which thenwas subsequently announced this week.

(52:50):
So I thought that was really interesting.
For those of you who are just tuning into the Graz loophole and that reevaluation now,basically when companies get a safety assessment by the FDA, they are presenting the FDA
with the data that they have about why a food additive is safe.
So like, let's just say you're bringing aspartame to the FDA, you have to be able to showthat a third party has verified the safety of that ingredient.

(53:11):
And honestly, as a general statement, this is great.
As you've heard me say before, I just think it's a question of priorities.
This would not be high on my list if I were to judge this, but you know, there's that.
Action also had a booth, is their pack.
The tea that I learned, I was at dinner on Thursday night at Expo West with a bunch offolks from the New Hope Informa team.
Someone also attended from a absolutely amazing person, but I'm going to let her remainanonymous.

(53:36):
She was not from New Hope.
She works for a trade association affiliated with USDA Organic.
If there has been one thing that you've heard consistently over and over again, like thedrumbeat of the Maha movement, it is glyphosate is killing us.
Glyphosate being the conventional pesticide that is used to protect conventionally growncrops from damage and to make sure that we have a consistent food supply.

(53:59):
She mentioned that there was a scenario that she witnessed in which the folks from theOrganic Trade Association were keen to reach out to Maha because they're out there talking
so much about the benefits of organic farming.
You'd think that these people would want to have some type of credible information to usewhen it comes to speaking about organic farming and the potential benefits of organic

(54:22):
farming, all of that, right?
Apparently they rebuffed this offering when it was discussed like, hey, we'd love to sharesome of our data with you about organic farming.
We'd love to bring you in.
We'd love to meet with you guys.
This was rebuffed.
We got it.
Do I know this 100 %?
No, I was not there.
But this woman who I was with,
was present and said that it was completely rebuffed.
We don't need that.

(54:42):
We don't need your research, was the response to would you like to have additionalresearch about organic farming.
Guys, this freaks the shit out of me.
Why do you think you don't need any information?
Why is it that if you have any access to credible info whatsoever, you turn away from itat every step?

(55:04):
any and every opportunity to actually speak credibly on a topic, you say, you know what,screw that.
We don't want the credible version.
We want the version that's just made up in our heads.
That really scares me because I don't know what they're afraid of, right?
Like if you are speaking truth, then what are you afraid of?
If you are, then maybe your facts just align perfectly with the organic trade associationsfacts.

(55:24):
Right?
I don't want to overhype the tea that I had to share with you guys.
The marketing and perception of an organization's values and what they're trying to do andtheir mission statement is completely misaligned with reality.
Why are you moving away from evidence based findings that actually would support yourcause?
It does not make sense.

(55:44):
If your goal is to help people, why would you, why would you rebuff the offer?
That's
It's weird.
Vani Hari, very shrill, always yelling at you.
Cali Means, always very shrill, always yelling at you, always has a pet in his hand.
I need someone to explain that to me.
I get it, you're taking notes as the panel goes, but you've now given this spiel 8,000times, your made up facts are already in your head.

(56:05):
We already know you're yelling at us, and we know, we get it.
We know you're gonna scream at us about how like, it for the kids, and yet we all wanna doit for the kids, and yet we still disagree with the way that you have decided this needs
to be done by pushing agendas like...
changing one food color out for another and using beef tallow instead of seed oil.
Dell Big Tree, very well spoken.
I had never seen him speak in person or even on TV.

(56:26):
So I thought he was really well spoken.
And I thought, by the way, I'm saying this, I'm being somewhat critical because you guysknow CaliMeans and Vani Hari are both two people that are a craw in my side because of the
inaccuracies and the things that they say that are partially true.
And then they go completely off the rails with a whole bunch of other stuff that is notactually grounded in-
any reality whatsoever.

(56:47):
The thing I thought was interesting was that they did have some very salient, veryexcellent points that I thought were really well made.
And then they went off the rails again, you know, talking about how RFK is the only personto say that you can cure measles with vitamin A.
Guys, you cannot.
That's not a thing.
Vitamin A does not take the place of a vaccine for measles.

(57:07):
We all know this.
It's well established.
This is some great, great science that we have available to us.
Can vitamin A
the healing from measles once you've contracted it?
Yes, but in very specific cases and with the oversight of a physician.
Not because Jackie London said so and certainly not because Robert F.
Kennedy or Callie Means said so, right?

(57:31):
So there's that.
Okay, my takeaway after the fact.
All of the issues that have been discussed so far about removing quote unquote poisonsfrom the food supply, getting toxins out of XYZ food product,
making sure that we have clean ingredients, all of these marketing buzzwords that areactually relatively meaningless in the context of real science and real life.

(57:51):
And the audience was very much, very much into it, very much captivated.
Now, at the same time, this was a sponsored event by Gaia.
And I did happen to learn that the event itself was pushed for by Maha.
Maha requested to be on a panel at Expo West.
Good for them, very smart.
But again, if you're going to come there and lecture a group of people that are

(58:12):
are already relatively aligned, then all you're doing is lobbying, right?
Like we can all be clear about the fact that this is just a pure lobbying effort, right?
Maha Action's also selling the Make America Healthy again, has like all of the kind ofmerch.
There, beyond all the things that we've spoken about so far, there's something that justfeels uniquely sinister about this, and I can't quite put my finger on it besides the
grift of it all, but Fani Hari's there with her protein powder, her true protein powder,huge, huge, in the main hall of expo, like signing books, promoting.

(58:40):
herself and her brand and using this opportunity to do that.
And then fast forward to Monday of this week.
And I just so happen to see there they are.
The Maha coalition has a meeting in the White House and who is posting a picture.
Callie Means and in the picture is Mani Hari.
That makes me really concerned because I just feel like we know who's on the Mahacommission.
We know that these people are Trump appointed officials.

(59:04):
I felt comfortable with it.
I felt like these are people in the administration.
Okay, good.
We've got some solid people.
We've got people.
bringing different points of view.
You've got Rick Rollins, who's USDA secretary.
You've got Secretary of Health Kennedy.
And we've got some balanced positions here.
Why?
Why are Callie Means and Vani Hari in the room?
They're not on the commission.
Why are they in the room?
Anyway, food for thought.

(59:25):
That's my tea.
That's my recap of Expo West.
I'm looking at the clock as I record this and realizing I'm about to be late for ameeting.
So I am going to have to wrap this up.
As always, I am so grateful that you are here.
If you enjoyed what you listened to today, I would love to hear from you.
Feel free to leave a five star rating and a review wherever you're listening to this rightnow.
Follow me on social media at JacquelineLondonRD.

(59:45):
Until next time, stay well.