March 5, 2025 • 36 mins
Discover the essential keys to church revitalization through outreach in this insightful episode with Scott Ball and AJ Mathieu. Learn why most churches have outreach activities but lack effective outreach strategies, and how this disconnect becomes a major barrier to growth. The hosts break down three critical steps that can transform your congregation from inward-focused to externally-oriented: shifting your mindset from "us" to "them," genuinely understanding your community's needs beyond surface-level assumptions, and establishing sustainable outreach practices that become part of your church's DNA. Whether your church is plateaued, declining, or simply looking to maximize its community impact, these actionable insights will help you develop the external focus necessary for true church revitalization. Don't miss this practical guide to fulfilling the Great Commission in your local context.
Full show notes at https://malphursgroup.com/280
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Three steps to becoming an externally focused church this week on the
Church Revitalization Podcast. Hello, and welcome
to the Church Revitalization Podcast brought to you by the
Malphurs group team, where each week we tackle important,
actionable topics to help churches thrive. And now,
here's your hosts, Scott Ball and AJ Mathieu.
(00:25):
Welcome to the Church Revitalization podcast. My name is Scott Ball. I'm joined
by my friend and cohost, AJ Mathieu. Here I
am. Alright. So talking about
revitalization through outreach. We've we've done a handful of episodes on
outreach, from time to time over
the course of the podcast, the life of this podcast, over the course
(00:47):
of two eighty episodes. We've checked on this topic. It's come to
probably not often enough, actually. Yeah, that's a fair
point. And I think maybe one of the things that's worth
mentioning here is how consistently,
we when we're going through the strategic envisioning process,
especially as we kind of get to that part of the the
(01:10):
discipleship pathway, exercises, and we start
evaluating our outreach strategies. Very often,
it's it isn't that churches aren't doing outreach. They've got
outreach activity, but they don't really have an outreach
strategy. They don't really have a plan. So they got stuff they do. They
have partnerships maybe with community organizations or they have events that they do
(01:33):
every year, but it it may or may not be
cohesive. It may or may not be building towards something. It may or
may not be clear to the average person in the church
how exactly they're supposed to engage in outreach. Outreach feels
scary to people. Evangelism is
(01:53):
sounds like not something I wanna do, you know, to
to the typical churchgoer. So for all of these reasons,
outreach is difficult and can be a
a hurdle for churches, but it really is the linchpin.
It's the key to revitalization. So we're gonna talk about
(02:13):
that today on the podcast. I think, in my experience,
the smaller the church has grown,
the less the external focus is.
Sometimes that, you know, is driven by the decreasing
number of people that, you know, can even pull something off at some kind of
event or outreach, money. You know? I mean, as the
(02:36):
church gets I'm talking very small. You know? You're down to less than 50
people. In in an aging congregation,
outreach becomes less and less. And maybe the things that you feel like are
outreach just aren't really geared. They're not really designed to
have excellent outcomes that you would maybe hope
for. Yeah. I think you're right. Sometimes there are things happening,
(02:58):
but there's not a lot of intentionality or strategy around it, not good
communication about it, not good training around it.
And then it kind of goes down from there to the point that it's
sometimes not even existing anymore. This is
a very important topic, and it is absolutely
key. If your if your church has plateaued or declining,
(03:20):
this needs to be one of the key elements that's focused on. And,
as we jump into our first step of the three,
Scott, This is where we'll drive that point home, and
that's changing that mind that mindset from us
to them. This goes right to the heart. This is step one. This
goes right to the heart of the great commission. So churches that
(03:43):
have, you know, just gotten away from that. They've they've gotten you know,
a few weeks ago, we did the comfort commission versus the great commission.
And that's this. That's in internally focused just, you know, are we
happy with us, and not really thinking about the world
outside? But this is the primary mindset shift that has to happen for churches
to get back on a growth trajectory because growth is about
(04:05):
enlarging the kingdom of God and and bringing the gospel to people
that that need to hear it, engaging them then in discipleship. So,
yeah, the the church has got to reach a point of deciding,
we haven't been doing this right. We wanna we wanna course
correction, and then beginning to build that back into the
people, rebuilding the culture of the church to to
(04:29):
care for one another, but to focus our our work and our attention
on the people outside. Yeah. I I think
what happens is, even I think
the most common thing it's just very rare for me to encounter a church.
It's not it's not it's a nonzero number of churches that
I've worked with where they have nothing that they're doing for outreach.
(04:52):
I have worked with a few where that was the case, but that's not
the usual case. The usual case is that they are doing things for
outreach. They have outreach programs. They have partnerships. They
have events that they do. But
the problem is, as it relates to
this first step of we need to change our mindset from
(05:14):
focusing on us to focusing on them, is maybe
even phrasing it this way that they are us is is what how we need
to really shift it. Because when you're focusing on
them as an as I hate kinda hate this language,
but as, like, a as a as an other or as a group,
then it's almost it's it's a charity work that you're doing. We're going, and
(05:37):
we're just doing this for them. And then there's the real work.
You know, there's the real church that's just us inside. And and
then we we deign to leave our, you know, we we
open up the gates, you know, like Willy Wonka. We allow
the riffraff to come in, for this one event
a year. And but in reality, we're trying to get these, you
(05:59):
know, get a okay. It's done. Now, you know, I feel
dirty. You know, we let them in. You know? And and there's there's a
little bit of that to be if we're being entirely honest. And if you think
about the kinds of things that churches often wanna do, it's stuff
where they want to it sounds good for us to do it, but you
don't really want those people to show up at your church on a Sunday.
(06:22):
You know, let's go you know, I worked with a church once
in an unnamed city. I won't say where it was. In an unnamed city
in a suburb of a major urban area. And one of
their outreach things was that they would, once a month,
go into said urban area and work with the homeless there. And
then I'm not saying that that wasn't important work. I mean, it's good to
(06:45):
serve the homeless, but it was a kind of thing that they could tell themselves
we're doing outreach without any risk of those people actually
showing up at their church on a Sunday morning. And
and so that's the mindset shift that I'm talking
about is rather than seeing them as a whole different
category of person, them, one
(07:08):
beginning to develop a heart for them to become us. That's
that's the mindset shift. We want to the
the the borders of us has to expand to include them.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and that is that's the mindset shift that's
missing in declining churches. I mean, let me
clarify. I mean, I don't think you're you're not suggesting that everything
(07:30):
that you do has to result in people then coming to your
church because there's a lot of things that could be done outside that.
For instance, that example you just gave. I mean, if they were coming
alongside an urban church right there in that neighborhood that
was underfunded and and resourced, it could help them
and make sure those people get connected to that church and are being
(07:52):
discipled. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Doing the fly in,
fly out, yeah, kind of virtues
signaling. Yeah. I'm I mean but that's my experience with a lot of
declining and plateaued churches is the kind of outreach work they
do is the kind that makes them feel the
best but has the least risk of someone actually
(08:14):
showing up at their church because check your heart on that for sure. Yeah. It's
like, oh, we we we go and we serve at the soup kitchen. Yeah. But
you don't want those people at your church. Like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For the
most part. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's that's that is something that makes you feel
good, but it's not is, you know, you
don't have to build a relationship with those people on an every week
(08:36):
basis. Yeah. You see them once a month when you when you swoop
in. And that, again, that doesn't mean that that that's valuable work.
Like, that's good. But, if you can if you can
continue to do that and do
the things that reach your neighbors, great. But if we're
doing that so that we don't have to actually reach our neighbors,
(08:59):
that's where the that's where the problem is. Well, we've both were both worked
with churches in locations in which, you know, there may be really
close to a neighborhood, in the middle of a neighborhood. There's plenty of people
nearby. And and you're like, what what are you doing here
locally? And the answer is nothing. You know? Nothing. No. We don't
know We don't know who who lives there. I mean, you know, this was something
(09:21):
that I mean, I remember, you know, years ago when you and I were still
new to the Alphys Group and Aubrey, you know, was was still
engaged and training us up and everything. You know, I mean, we used to we
used to grab, like, satellite views, you know, like, look at show the
team, like, here's your church. Look at these rooftops. You know? I mean, do we
know do we know who lives in any of these? And I don't remember ever
(09:42):
being at a church where, like, oh, yeah. We totally we we know our neighborhood
well. You know? I mean, that's that's who we're really reaching. Everybody was
always like, no. We don't we don't know. Literally across the
street from our church. We'll have an idea who lives there. Yeah. Well, this is
a good this is timely, depending on when you're listening to this.
This has been in the news lately. I'm not gonna make a political point
(10:05):
here, but there's this concept of ordo amoris,
like the peep the people the order of people that you
have an obligation to. So we have an obligation to love and serve all people.
Like, I I think that's maybe a misunderstanding, actually, in this,
political environment. Some people say, we should only care about these people
or we should only care about these people. That's not rightly understood.
(10:27):
We we have an obligation to love and care for all people.
But there is an order of obligation that you have. Your first order of
obligation is to your family. You know, if I what good is
it for me to love some person in some other country if I
don't love my wife and my kids first and take care of them
first? I have my first obligation. My first duty is to them.
(10:50):
Your next layer of that would be to that immediate community that you have.
What good is it for me to love, you know, some people in some
other neighborhood, you know, if I don't love the people in my
community first, you know, and then to your nation and then to the world. Like,
there is an order. You have do have an order of
obligation. It's a little bit like, the example that gets used. I think
(11:12):
this is a good one. If there were it's all although maybe a bit
drastic. It's it's colorful analogy. If there are two
kids drowning in a pool, and
one of them is your kid and another one is a stranger's
kid, and you can only save one kid, who's
which one are you going to save? You would likely save your own kid
(11:36):
first because you have an obligation to that child more than to
the other child. That doesn't mean if you could save both kids, you'd save both.
But you you would, of course, you would you would dive in to save your
own child first because it's your kid.
And what I see sometimes, AJ, and this is maybe just a shift to
this next point, which is to why we need to discover and understand our
(11:58):
community's needs, is I see churches that
do seem to care more about global missions, about the person
who's in Africa or Costa Rica or Nicaragua
more than they care a purse about the person who's two blocks from them.
Yeah. They know the names of people who live in Nicaragua,
(12:18):
but they can't name a person who lives two blocks away.
And it's disordered, actually. You should care.
I'm not saying you can't care about both. You should care about both.
But to care about one at the exclusion of the other is
a problem, and it is a hallmark of declining
churches, is that you see more of this. Yeah. And it's a
(12:41):
problem. Well, I always think about the parable of the Good Samaritan, you
know? I mean, I because it begs the question, who is my neighbor?
Who, Jesus, am I supposed to apply this truth to that you're explaining to
me? And that's the answer is contextual. I mean, the
first, the one that you have the most direct contact with, Who
do you have the most opportunity to influence, with the
(13:04):
gospel? And so, yeah, to Yeah.
The irony of that is that the the irony of that parable is that the
people who should have cared did not.
It's an indictment. The story is as much as it is
a celebration of the Samaritan, it's such
an extreme story. This is a person who who had no
(13:27):
obligation to care about the injured man but did,
whereas the people who passed by the man did have some obligation
to that man and did not care. It's an indictment on
those who passed by as much as it is a celebration
of the of the man who gave
generously and unrealistically, actually. Like,
(13:49):
normal people don't get a hotel room and say, and whatever
the tab is, I'll pay it. Like, that's Yeah. Yeah. That's like an exorbitant
extravagant kind of love that you definitely wouldn't expect from
someone who has no obligation to you. Like, that's the the point of the
story is is and largely, it's an indictment on the people who
passed by. And, yeah, I I'm suggesting that a lot of our
(14:11):
churches are the people who pass by, the the person who's right
in your neighborhood who's struggling. And I think to
finally segue to number two here, I think that one of the reasons why we
do it is we fundamentally misunderstand the needs of our community.
Mhmm. So we only think about outreach
through the lens of things like a soup kitchen or,
(14:33):
you know, a a food pantry or
a clothes closet. And if it doesn't fit into one of those neat
buckets of, like, outreach thing, we're
like, I don't know how to help you. Yeah. And so if you live
in a community that's relatively affluent, you think, well, they don't really don't really
need a soup kitchen because that's not really the the biggest need
(14:56):
in my neighborhood. Well, what are the needs in your neighborhood?
And so that's maybe let's dwell there. So step one is you
gotta shift your mindset. Like, I have to start caring about the people who are
closest to us. Not at the exclusion of global
missions, not at the exclusion of but starting
with starting with the people who are closest to me. And
(15:17):
then, number two, if I'm gonna do that, then I need to understand them.
Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I think there's there's so much more opportunity
than we believe there might be nearby.
And no matter what your church context is urban, suburban,
even rural everybody has problems. I mean, who do you
know that has no problems? And, you know, you
(15:40):
your knee jerk reaction might be the person that you think maybe has the most
money. Like, they got it all together. They got the house. They got the boat,
the cars. The kids are in private school. I guarantee you,
not everything is well in that house because they're human, and there's
they they still have needs. I've described this before
as needing to reach the needy and the
(16:01):
proud. And what I mean by that is and the needy are the obvious ones.
You know, the people that outwardly were like, Wow. They've really got a lot of
problems. But the proud are the people, you know,
that that, you know, that on social media, it looks like everything was great.
And they they may not not ever ask for help, and they might try to
hide the fact that they even need help. But down down deep, they do need
(16:23):
help. We all do. And, you know, or
just the regular old middle class family across the street from your church or across
the street from where you live might be barely holding it
together. You know? Did did one or
both lose a job? You know, I mean, is is there a
chronic illness? I mean, there's any number of things that could be happening.
(16:46):
And everybody is as deserving of the love of Christ
as anybody else and of having a relationship,
you know, that could be of help to them. Yeah.
I think finding out what those needs are. Now how are you gonna do that?
It's harder for some. Right? Because the people with obvious outward needs, I
mean, just like they can't even hide it. We know that's a big problem for
(17:07):
them. The people that are hiding the need, you know,
whether because they they just don't they don't maybe, you
know, in in pride, they don't want to expose that, or they
don't think anybody cares. Those are harder. What is but how
do you do that with a relationship? If and and that has to start
with, you know, a handshake and a conversation, an introduction. And
(17:30):
so to to pass by those that we perceive would have no
need or interest to go to the ones that have the obvious need.
I'm not saying it's wrong to go to the ones with the obvious need. I'm
just saying there's a big opportunity that we're probably not spending a little
bit of time, trying to to crack into to find
out what's really going on in people's lives. Yeah. Totally. I I
(17:51):
think, again, once we break free from
just the assumption that this the outreach means and
then fill in the blank with whatever your preconceived notion is.
Once you break free from that and you start to open yourself up to the
idea, okay. Well, there might be a different way for us to
do outreach. I'm just not sure what those specific needs are in my
(18:14):
community. Once you that's once you've made that mindset shift,
then you can just start exploring things, and you need to do the you need
to do the work. You have to do the research of figuring out what that
is. So talk to people, pull a demographics
survey, like, what's the divorce rate in your area? Can
you can pull psychographic studies. You can pull there's all kinds of
(18:37):
information that you can find, you know, at the macro
level. And then, yeah, talk to people. Talk to school counselors.
Talk to community leaders, talk to
go go on walks around the neighborhoods and, you
know, strike up conversations with people as appropriate.
Don't weird people out, but, you know, as appropriate, have conversations. At
(19:00):
one point, we we maybe even still have some of these, AJ. We
had stickers that you could put on your laptop,
that what do they say? Like, I'm a pastor. It said I'm a
pastor. Chair. Yeah.
Yeah. Put on the back of your laptop at the coffee shop. Yeah.
Yeah. Go to the coffee shop not near where you live, but the one that's
(19:22):
closest to the church and see who just put
put that put that sticker on your your laptop. See who comes up to
you. See see who chats with you and,
find out what's going on in their lives and hear their stories.
But there are other resources out there that can help you with this. So,
(19:43):
like, that can help you meet these kinds of needs. Financial Peace
University is a common one to help people with, you know, financial hang ups.
You know, divorce care. So is a resource out there. Grief
share Reengage marriage. For marriage
stuff. Alpha program for people who
are exploring faith, but, they're, you
(20:06):
know, they're filled filled with doubt or, you know, they're an atheist or
agnostic, but they're open to exploring faith. There's all
kinds of great resources out there. You don't have to build something from scratch
yourself. But just start thinking. What are the
what are the hurts and the hang ups of the people in
my particular community, and what am I
(20:29):
doing to address and meet those
needs? And which leads them to the
third step, which is you you can have whatever
program or whatever event, but it doesn't matter if people don't know about it.
Like, you have some way of connecting people to that. So the third the
first step was we need to shift our mindset from thinking about us to thinking
(20:51):
about them. Second step is we need to really
understand the needs of our community. The third step then is we
need to establish sustainable outreach practices.
So, a one and done event isn't gonna get it done. We really
need to embed the an outreach
strategy into the DNA DNA of our church. We talk about this as,
(21:15):
in your discipleship pathway, you need a distinct
outreach step Mhmm. That is characterized by a
primary ministry and maybe some secondary ministries. And a primary ministry
is a way in which you expect
everyone in your church to engage in in in
outreach that can function as a bucket of things or a category of
(21:38):
things. There could be, like, one label on it, so
to speak, with with multiple opportunities underneath that. But
there needs to be some way in which we are expecting people
to, connect with that outreach
strategy, and we hold people accountable to that. So it's not
just two or three people or a handful of people who are engaged in outreach,
(22:00):
but it's an expectation for our whole church. Yeah. I would you know,
I think this is an area that needs some just really good,
thought and prayer and strategy, you know, in the leadership of the
church. You know, some churches also, they just kinda
leave this open where, like, just everybody go out and just find
something, do whatever you want. And that can be a little
(22:22):
difficult to manage. And so and it's really
hard then for, you know, the people that just need that's maybe not how
how they think, their personality. It's better to have
something that you can go. Here's something really specific you can engage in.
And and have it be limited. I mean, you obviously, you want the greatest impact
for the resources that you're gonna be putting into it. And
(22:45):
then, you know, be able to communicate it well, train people to
participate in it, and, you know, have some
continuing education in it as well, supporting people that they can
remain confident in in that area that they're serving in.
All these are important aspects of it. And, it's not just something you just throw
together overnight. It definitely requires some
(23:07):
some thought and some strategy and, some leadership.
It requires people to lead the work, to be able
to, you know, have a point of contact for people to engage with, find out
more more about it, how they can serve, the areas in which they
can serve. You know, there's all kinds of details that go
into this, you know, between scheduling people and and what are we doing,
(23:30):
where is it, how long is it, all these things. So
but, yeah. Developing something that can be sustainable long
term and that, is clear enough in
your church so that people know. They can't hide from it. Are are you either
in this you're participating in this level, or step of our pathway or you're
not. But there would not be any ambiguity, to it.
(23:52):
And I think that's that's an important aspect, because, you
know, the more the more hands that are working in the ministry, the greater,
effectiveness you're gonna have, the greater results you're gonna have. So, yeah, these are all
important parts of it, but it has to be intentional for sure.
Totally. I you know, it's it's just not gonna happen on accident. And and I
think that we don't want people to feel
(24:15):
uncomfortable. You know, we don't we we feel this
tension of, like, I don't know. We don't I don't
wanna ask our people to to step out and do this thing
or whatever. And, we're not serving them
well when we when we don't when we do that.
Jesus makes it pretty clear that following him
(24:39):
requires everything. And so it's okay to make our
people feel a little bit uncomfortable and say, hey. We expect you to be sharing
your faith. Now we we can grease those
wheels. We can provide training for them, maybe a framework. You
know, one of the churches that I worked with last year
introduced me to, a framework called Good God
(25:01):
Gospel, and I really you know, I I've shared that with several churches, and
they really like that framework. They came across it. I
can't remember. You can look it up. I think it's goodgodgospel.com,
and, there's some free resources there helping
be they have had a lot of success with that framework,
(25:21):
helping their people understand not every conversation I have has to be a turn or
burn conversation. It can start with a good conversation. Can I just
build rapport with someone? And I don't have to have an
ulterior motive. Like, I can just have a genuinely good
conversation, and that be enough. You
know, and you have enough good conversations, it leads to a God conversation where you
(25:43):
can talk about how, what the Lord is doing in your own life, just sharing
your own story and, or your perspective on things and what
God is doing in in the world, which can lead to a gospel
conversation. And being equipped to have
each of those kinds of conversations, certain personality types are
like, I don't I don't wanna go to a training. You know? But others are
(26:05):
like, no. I would love to go to a training that gives me a framework.
So you can grease the wheels for them, but to say, hey. This is not
something that we expect of everybody is to leave them an
incomplete disciple. And that's not
good. We we have a we need to disciple people fully, and that
includes empowering them to share their faith. Yeah. Yeah.
(26:26):
Yeah. Help people get over, you know, maybe some some
levels of discomfort that they have. You know? I mean, we all have room to
grow. It doesn't mean everybody becomes, you know, a street corner
evangelist. That's that's not how God designed us.
And hopefully not because that's probably not the most effective form of
evangelism anyway. But but that's what people think a lot of
(26:47):
times. You know, even you use the word evangelism and they're like, oh, I don't
know. That's that sounds scary and cringe. And so
that's why, you know, it takes clear communication. Yeah.
I I mean, I've told this story to various churches and stuff, but
I just always think about this flight that I was on on a mission trip
with, and one of my pastors leaving London on on our way to
(27:09):
to, Nairobi, which was our next layover. And, you know,
one of my pastors having a conversation with a guy in a plane, you know,
and I'm just kind of leaning over, overhearing, you know, the gospel's being
presented and answering questions and overcoming objections. And in the end, you know, I
mean, I'm thinking we're about to have a salvation right here, you know, the
over Southern Europe. But no. That's not how it ended.
(27:31):
The guy was like, okay. That's that's good information. I'm gonna I'll I'm gonna consider
that. It wasn't ready. It wasn't the right time. And I and I always just
think back, you know, like, I mean, I I thought my if anybody was gonna
hear the path the gospel from this guy, they were a
%. They're about to become a believer. And that's not the case. So, you know,
when the greatest of those in that skill and gifting,
(27:54):
don't close the deal, there's hope for all of us, you know, that that we
can we can We can all not close. We can all fail at
it. That's okay. The point is to try.
So, Yeah. You know? But yeah. So that's that's a
an example that I hold on to of encouraging failure,
that, yeah. There we all have got a role to play. It doesn't always look
(28:17):
like that. But I think this is an important thing because it's a scary
thing. It's it's uncomfortable for at least Western
American believers. This is not built into our DNA in most
churches to to be discipled into this is how we
think and how we view the world and how we go about our day.
And it's a it's a very slow movement to to
(28:39):
work. So Yeah. I mean, we live in a you do you
society, so we we don't want to in any way, put
upon someone, you know, our our perspective
or our faith. And and we really have to shift that mindset too
and go, you know, you know, if you know
a person walking in a lie, it
(29:01):
it's wouldn't it be good for them to know the
truth? You know?
I I don't know. That's always been my perspective. It's
like the it's like you think about parenting. You know?
There are times where it's okay to let your kids believe in something or
think something that's not quite true. It might even be a little bit cute. But
(29:24):
then it kinda gets to a point where you're like, oh, no. If I let
this go on, they're gonna grow up
thinking this thing that isn't true. You know?
I I, here's a small example, a dumb one.
And it was it was a a lie of omission, not one of commission
on the part of my parents. But I was a full grown I'm
(29:47):
embarrassed to say how old I was, but I was I was
probably 18 years old before I
understood that,
AJ, what do you call what do you call the things you what's a topping
for salad? It's a little crunchy. Brutons? You got
it. Okay. I was under the impression that that
(30:09):
was called dead bread. What?
Yeah. Because my dad doesn't like croutons, and
so he called it dead bread.
I had I made it all the way to 18 years old before I
realized that's not the real name. Like, those are
called croutons. And I also didn't know that no one else not
(30:32):
only, like yeah. It's not just an alternative name, croutons.
No one's ever heard of it. No one has ever heard of dead bread.
Right? So, yeah, would have been good
for, that wasn't my parent. My dad I've told my parents this, and
they laugh about it, you know, because they didn't intentionally not teach
me the word crouton. It's just that my dad always called it dead bread, so
(30:55):
that's that's just how I learned it. Wow. That's pretty
good. That yeah. I had not heard that story before, Scott.
I'm full of I mean, I'm always good for a story. The point
is, you got people there are people around you who that's a
small, silly thing, but their
lives are filled with lies. Lies about
(31:17):
who they are, lies about why they are the way they are, lies about what
will fix their problems and make them feel good, and they are just as
silly as as dead bread.
And you know the truth. How how loving and kind is it
going looping back to kinda the Good Samaritan? How
loving and kind is it to ignore a person who is
(31:39):
spiritually dying on the side of the road when you have the truth?
And and when we can understand that, we
don't beat people up with the truth then as a consequence of that,
but we do need to come alongside people lovingly with the truth and
be prepared to just share that truth. And,
(31:59):
most of our people are are not thinking about life that way. They're thinking,
I don't wanna impose.
Impose. You have an obligation to to the people who are spiritually dead.
Yeah. Transformation from dead bread
to disciple makes a crouton. To to to to to crouton. Yeah.
(32:20):
That feels like a good place to, maybe just do a quick recap, AJ.
So we're moving, we're moving from that inward focus
to that outward focus. This is how this is how this is how god
designed the church to grow. This right? I mean, if we're gonna take the gospel
to the ends of the earth, it's gotta start with, across the street.
But we've gotta shift from an us to them mindset in the church, because
(32:42):
we we are very comfortable in many of our congregations, not
doing anything different. We've got to understand
who is outside, who do we not know, what are their
needs, And then actually develop a strategy. How are we gonna engage our
people to engage the world and, move this move this
ball forward with people coming to know Christ? So there you
(33:05):
go. Three, very difficult and simple steps.
We would love to help you help you put that together. Yeah. Absolutely. I I
I do wanna just share one encouraging story to wrap as we close.
You know, I've been working with a a church that in the last year or
so that has had has declined
(33:26):
quite a bit over the previous decade.
And, they made some internal changes. Like, they they fixed some things on the
inside, like, spruce some things up and did some signage
changes and initially were
discouraged that things weren't just, like, magically turning around, and they you know, we were
having one of our implementation coaching meetings. And as they were
(33:48):
explaining to me all the things they'd done, I said, the thing you've not yet
done is you gotta go out. Like, you got
to get with the people. And, you know, it was not
just a couple months after that that they that they really leaned into
that, started just simple things, going to festivals
where you're just being present, being visible, getting to
(34:10):
know people. And and in the subsequent months, they have
grown. They've grown something like 40% in the last,
four or five months or so. And so, that it's
this is the key to revitalization. The other stuff is good. It's imp
also important, because when they show up, there needs to be
a healthy church there for them to grow and be discipled in. But
(34:33):
you won't turn around unless you actually focus on on
outreach. Yeah. Absolutely. Alright.
Well, before we go, one quick plug because we're horrible salespeople, but we do
have to mention the Healthy Churches toolkit. So if you'll go to Healthy Churches
toolkit dot com, you can register there for a free seven day
trial and have access to every feature in the toolkit.
(34:55):
Go get in there and explore it. This is coming out around,
the March 1 or so. Easter is right around
the corner, and we've got an amazing Easter resource
hub in there that you would want to take advantage of. So check
that out. Speaking of outreach, there's, like, there's invite cards in there. There's
guest follow-up email sequence generator. There I mean,
(35:18):
there's there's stuff in there that you can use right away to help
you be successful in an Easter outreach strategy. Yeah.
Absolutely. Go to healthy churches, toolkit.com and check that
out. Otherwise, this has been episode 280 of the Church
Revitalization Podcast. And today's show notes are at
malphursgroup.com/280, where you
(35:39):
can, check out today, this week's article and, some resources in
there. Maybe, Scott, I'll even throw the, the link in there to get those
stickers. We got a few of those stickers left for the, laptops. Really? Fresh
stickers. So yeah. Little bonus. Did you do you have one? Do you have one
there? Sure. No. I looked while we were talking. I could it's out of
reach. But yeah. Alright. I'll put that I'll put that in the article this week.
(36:01):
You can see that. Okay. Thanks everybody for being with us. We'll see you again
next time.
Three steps to becoming an externally focused church this week on the
Church Revitalization Podcast. Hello, and welcome
to the Church Revitalization Podcast brought to you by the
Malphurs group team, where each week we tackle important,
actionable topics to help churches thrive. And now,
here's your hosts, Scott Ball and AJ Mathieu.
(00:25):
Welcome to the Church Revitalization podcast. My name is Scott Ball. I'm joined
by my friend and cohost, AJ Mathieu. Here I
am. Alright. So talking about
revitalization through outreach. We've we've done a handful of episodes on
outreach, from time to time over
the course of the podcast, the life of this podcast, over the course
(00:47):
of two eighty episodes. We've checked on this topic. It's come to
probably not often enough, actually. Yeah, that's a fair
point. And I think maybe one of the things that's worth
mentioning here is how consistently,
we when we're going through the strategic envisioning process,
especially as we kind of get to that part of the the
(01:10):
discipleship pathway, exercises, and we start
evaluating our outreach strategies. Very often,
it's it isn't that churches aren't doing outreach. They've got
outreach activity, but they don't really have an outreach
strategy. They don't really have a plan. So they got stuff they do. They
have partnerships maybe with community organizations or they have events that they do
(01:33):
every year, but it it may or may not be
cohesive. It may or may not be building towards something. It may or
may not be clear to the average person in the church
how exactly they're supposed to engage in outreach. Outreach feels
scary to people. Evangelism is
(01:53):
sounds like not something I wanna do, you know, to
to the typical churchgoer. So for all of these reasons,
outreach is difficult and can be a
a hurdle for churches, but it really is the linchpin.
It's the key to revitalization. So we're gonna talk about
(02:13):
that today on the podcast. I think, in my experience,
the smaller the church has grown,
the less the external focus is.
Sometimes that, you know, is driven by the decreasing
number of people that, you know, can even pull something off at some kind of
event or outreach, money. You know? I mean, as the
(02:36):
church gets I'm talking very small. You know? You're down to less than 50
people. In in an aging congregation,
outreach becomes less and less. And maybe the things that you feel like are
outreach just aren't really geared. They're not really designed to
have excellent outcomes that you would maybe hope
for. Yeah. I think you're right. Sometimes there are things happening,
(02:58):
but there's not a lot of intentionality or strategy around it, not good
communication about it, not good training around it.
And then it kind of goes down from there to the point that it's
sometimes not even existing anymore. This is
a very important topic, and it is absolutely
key. If your if your church has plateaued or declining,
(03:20):
this needs to be one of the key elements that's focused on. And,
as we jump into our first step of the three,
Scott, This is where we'll drive that point home, and
that's changing that mind that mindset from us
to them. This goes right to the heart. This is step one. This
goes right to the heart of the great commission. So churches that
(03:43):
have, you know, just gotten away from that. They've they've gotten you know,
a few weeks ago, we did the comfort commission versus the great commission.
And that's this. That's in internally focused just, you know, are we
happy with us, and not really thinking about the world
outside? But this is the primary mindset shift that has to happen for churches
to get back on a growth trajectory because growth is about
(04:05):
enlarging the kingdom of God and and bringing the gospel to people
that that need to hear it, engaging them then in discipleship. So,
yeah, the the church has got to reach a point of deciding,
we haven't been doing this right. We wanna we wanna course
correction, and then beginning to build that back into the
people, rebuilding the culture of the church to to
(04:29):
care for one another, but to focus our our work and our attention
on the people outside. Yeah. I I think
what happens is, even I think
the most common thing it's just very rare for me to encounter a church.
It's not it's not it's a nonzero number of churches that
I've worked with where they have nothing that they're doing for outreach.
(04:52):
I have worked with a few where that was the case, but that's not
the usual case. The usual case is that they are doing things for
outreach. They have outreach programs. They have partnerships. They
have events that they do. But
the problem is, as it relates to
this first step of we need to change our mindset from
(05:14):
focusing on us to focusing on them, is maybe
even phrasing it this way that they are us is is what how we need
to really shift it. Because when you're focusing on
them as an as I hate kinda hate this language,
but as, like, a as a as an other or as a group,
then it's almost it's it's a charity work that you're doing. We're going, and
(05:37):
we're just doing this for them. And then there's the real work.
You know, there's the real church that's just us inside. And and
then we we deign to leave our, you know, we we
open up the gates, you know, like Willy Wonka. We allow
the riffraff to come in, for this one event
a year. And but in reality, we're trying to get these, you
(05:59):
know, get a okay. It's done. Now, you know, I feel
dirty. You know, we let them in. You know? And and there's there's a
little bit of that to be if we're being entirely honest. And if you think
about the kinds of things that churches often wanna do, it's stuff
where they want to it sounds good for us to do it, but you
don't really want those people to show up at your church on a Sunday.
(06:22):
You know, let's go you know, I worked with a church once
in an unnamed city. I won't say where it was. In an unnamed city
in a suburb of a major urban area. And one of
their outreach things was that they would, once a month,
go into said urban area and work with the homeless there. And
then I'm not saying that that wasn't important work. I mean, it's good to
(06:45):
serve the homeless, but it was a kind of thing that they could tell themselves
we're doing outreach without any risk of those people actually
showing up at their church on a Sunday morning. And
and so that's the mindset shift that I'm talking
about is rather than seeing them as a whole different
category of person, them, one
(07:08):
beginning to develop a heart for them to become us. That's
that's the mindset shift. We want to the
the the borders of us has to expand to include them.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and that is that's the mindset shift that's
missing in declining churches. I mean, let me
clarify. I mean, I don't think you're you're not suggesting that everything
(07:30):
that you do has to result in people then coming to your
church because there's a lot of things that could be done outside that.
For instance, that example you just gave. I mean, if they were coming
alongside an urban church right there in that neighborhood that
was underfunded and and resourced, it could help them
and make sure those people get connected to that church and are being
(07:52):
discipled. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Doing the fly in,
fly out, yeah, kind of virtues
signaling. Yeah. I'm I mean but that's my experience with a lot of
declining and plateaued churches is the kind of outreach work they
do is the kind that makes them feel the
best but has the least risk of someone actually
(08:14):
showing up at their church because check your heart on that for sure. Yeah. It's
like, oh, we we we go and we serve at the soup kitchen. Yeah. But
you don't want those people at your church. Like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For the
most part. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's that's that is something that makes you feel
good, but it's not is, you know, you
don't have to build a relationship with those people on an every week
(08:36):
basis. Yeah. You see them once a month when you when you swoop
in. And that, again, that doesn't mean that that that's valuable work.
Like, that's good. But, if you can if you can
continue to do that and do
the things that reach your neighbors, great. But if we're
doing that so that we don't have to actually reach our neighbors,
(08:59):
that's where the that's where the problem is. Well, we've both were both worked
with churches in locations in which, you know, there may be really
close to a neighborhood, in the middle of a neighborhood. There's plenty of people
nearby. And and you're like, what what are you doing here
locally? And the answer is nothing. You know? Nothing. No. We don't
know We don't know who who lives there. I mean, you know, this was something
(09:21):
that I mean, I remember, you know, years ago when you and I were still
new to the Alphys Group and Aubrey, you know, was was still
engaged and training us up and everything. You know, I mean, we used to we
used to grab, like, satellite views, you know, like, look at show the
team, like, here's your church. Look at these rooftops. You know? I mean, do we
know do we know who lives in any of these? And I don't remember ever
(09:42):
being at a church where, like, oh, yeah. We totally we we know our neighborhood
well. You know? I mean, that's that's who we're really reaching. Everybody was
always like, no. We don't we don't know. Literally across the
street from our church. We'll have an idea who lives there. Yeah. Well, this is
a good this is timely, depending on when you're listening to this.
This has been in the news lately. I'm not gonna make a political point
(10:05):
here, but there's this concept of ordo amoris,
like the peep the people the order of people that you
have an obligation to. So we have an obligation to love and serve all people.
Like, I I think that's maybe a misunderstanding, actually, in this,
political environment. Some people say, we should only care about these people
or we should only care about these people. That's not rightly understood.
(10:27):
We we have an obligation to love and care for all people.
But there is an order of obligation that you have. Your first order of
obligation is to your family. You know, if I what good is
it for me to love some person in some other country if I
don't love my wife and my kids first and take care of them
first? I have my first obligation. My first duty is to them.
(10:50):
Your next layer of that would be to that immediate community that you have.
What good is it for me to love, you know, some people in some
other neighborhood, you know, if I don't love the people in my
community first, you know, and then to your nation and then to the world. Like,
there is an order. You have do have an order of
obligation. It's a little bit like, the example that gets used. I think
(11:12):
this is a good one. If there were it's all although maybe a bit
drastic. It's it's colorful analogy. If there are two
kids drowning in a pool, and
one of them is your kid and another one is a stranger's
kid, and you can only save one kid, who's
which one are you going to save? You would likely save your own kid
(11:36):
first because you have an obligation to that child more than to
the other child. That doesn't mean if you could save both kids, you'd save both.
But you you would, of course, you would you would dive in to save your
own child first because it's your kid.
And what I see sometimes, AJ, and this is maybe just a shift to
this next point, which is to why we need to discover and understand our
(11:58):
community's needs, is I see churches that
do seem to care more about global missions, about the person
who's in Africa or Costa Rica or Nicaragua
more than they care a purse about the person who's two blocks from them.
Yeah. They know the names of people who live in Nicaragua,
(12:18):
but they can't name a person who lives two blocks away.
And it's disordered, actually. You should care.
I'm not saying you can't care about both. You should care about both.
But to care about one at the exclusion of the other is
a problem, and it is a hallmark of declining
churches, is that you see more of this. Yeah. And it's a
(12:41):
problem. Well, I always think about the parable of the Good Samaritan, you
know? I mean, I because it begs the question, who is my neighbor?
Who, Jesus, am I supposed to apply this truth to that you're explaining to
me? And that's the answer is contextual. I mean, the
first, the one that you have the most direct contact with, Who
do you have the most opportunity to influence, with the
(13:04):
gospel? And so, yeah, to Yeah.
The irony of that is that the the irony of that parable is that the
people who should have cared did not.
It's an indictment. The story is as much as it is
a celebration of the Samaritan, it's such
an extreme story. This is a person who who had no
(13:27):
obligation to care about the injured man but did,
whereas the people who passed by the man did have some obligation
to that man and did not care. It's an indictment on
those who passed by as much as it is a celebration
of the of the man who gave
generously and unrealistically, actually. Like,
(13:49):
normal people don't get a hotel room and say, and whatever
the tab is, I'll pay it. Like, that's Yeah. Yeah. That's like an exorbitant
extravagant kind of love that you definitely wouldn't expect from
someone who has no obligation to you. Like, that's the the point of the
story is is and largely, it's an indictment on the people who
passed by. And, yeah, I I'm suggesting that a lot of our
(14:11):
churches are the people who pass by, the the person who's right
in your neighborhood who's struggling. And I think to
finally segue to number two here, I think that one of the reasons why we
do it is we fundamentally misunderstand the needs of our community.
Mhmm. So we only think about outreach
through the lens of things like a soup kitchen or,
(14:33):
you know, a a food pantry or
a clothes closet. And if it doesn't fit into one of those neat
buckets of, like, outreach thing, we're
like, I don't know how to help you. Yeah. And so if you live
in a community that's relatively affluent, you think, well, they don't really don't really
need a soup kitchen because that's not really the the biggest need
(14:56):
in my neighborhood. Well, what are the needs in your neighborhood?
And so that's maybe let's dwell there. So step one is you
gotta shift your mindset. Like, I have to start caring about the people who are
closest to us. Not at the exclusion of global
missions, not at the exclusion of but starting
with starting with the people who are closest to me. And
(15:17):
then, number two, if I'm gonna do that, then I need to understand them.
Yeah. Absolutely. You know, I think there's there's so much more opportunity
than we believe there might be nearby.
And no matter what your church context is urban, suburban,
even rural everybody has problems. I mean, who do you
know that has no problems? And, you know, you
(15:40):
your knee jerk reaction might be the person that you think maybe has the most
money. Like, they got it all together. They got the house. They got the boat,
the cars. The kids are in private school. I guarantee you,
not everything is well in that house because they're human, and there's
they they still have needs. I've described this before
as needing to reach the needy and the
(16:01):
proud. And what I mean by that is and the needy are the obvious ones.
You know, the people that outwardly were like, Wow. They've really got a lot of
problems. But the proud are the people, you know,
that that, you know, that on social media, it looks like everything was great.
And they they may not not ever ask for help, and they might try to
hide the fact that they even need help. But down down deep, they do need
(16:23):
help. We all do. And, you know, or
just the regular old middle class family across the street from your church or across
the street from where you live might be barely holding it
together. You know? Did did one or
both lose a job? You know, I mean, is is there a
chronic illness? I mean, there's any number of things that could be happening.
(16:46):
And everybody is as deserving of the love of Christ
as anybody else and of having a relationship,
you know, that could be of help to them. Yeah.
I think finding out what those needs are. Now how are you gonna do that?
It's harder for some. Right? Because the people with obvious outward needs, I
mean, just like they can't even hide it. We know that's a big problem for
(17:07):
them. The people that are hiding the need, you know,
whether because they they just don't they don't maybe, you
know, in in pride, they don't want to expose that, or they
don't think anybody cares. Those are harder. What is but how
do you do that with a relationship? If and and that has to start
with, you know, a handshake and a conversation, an introduction. And
(17:30):
so to to pass by those that we perceive would have no
need or interest to go to the ones that have the obvious need.
I'm not saying it's wrong to go to the ones with the obvious need. I'm
just saying there's a big opportunity that we're probably not spending a little
bit of time, trying to to crack into to find
out what's really going on in people's lives. Yeah. Totally. I I
(17:51):
think, again, once we break free from
just the assumption that this the outreach means and
then fill in the blank with whatever your preconceived notion is.
Once you break free from that and you start to open yourself up to the
idea, okay. Well, there might be a different way for us to
do outreach. I'm just not sure what those specific needs are in my
(18:14):
community. Once you that's once you've made that mindset shift,
then you can just start exploring things, and you need to do the you need
to do the work. You have to do the research of figuring out what that
is. So talk to people, pull a demographics
survey, like, what's the divorce rate in your area? Can
you can pull psychographic studies. You can pull there's all kinds of
(18:37):
information that you can find, you know, at the macro
level. And then, yeah, talk to people. Talk to school counselors.
Talk to community leaders, talk to
go go on walks around the neighborhoods and, you
know, strike up conversations with people as appropriate.
Don't weird people out, but, you know, as appropriate, have conversations. At
(19:00):
one point, we we maybe even still have some of these, AJ. We
had stickers that you could put on your laptop,
that what do they say? Like, I'm a pastor. It said I'm a
pastor. Chair. Yeah.
Yeah. Put on the back of your laptop at the coffee shop. Yeah.
Yeah. Go to the coffee shop not near where you live, but the one that's
(19:22):
closest to the church and see who just put
put that put that sticker on your your laptop. See who comes up to
you. See see who chats with you and,
find out what's going on in their lives and hear their stories.
But there are other resources out there that can help you with this. So,
(19:43):
like, that can help you meet these kinds of needs. Financial Peace
University is a common one to help people with, you know, financial hang ups.
You know, divorce care. So is a resource out there. Grief
share Reengage marriage. For marriage
stuff. Alpha program for people who
are exploring faith, but, they're, you
(20:06):
know, they're filled filled with doubt or, you know, they're an atheist or
agnostic, but they're open to exploring faith. There's all
kinds of great resources out there. You don't have to build something from scratch
yourself. But just start thinking. What are the
what are the hurts and the hang ups of the people in
my particular community, and what am I
(20:29):
doing to address and meet those
needs? And which leads them to the
third step, which is you you can have whatever
program or whatever event, but it doesn't matter if people don't know about it.
Like, you have some way of connecting people to that. So the third the
first step was we need to shift our mindset from thinking about us to thinking
(20:51):
about them. Second step is we need to really
understand the needs of our community. The third step then is we
need to establish sustainable outreach practices.
So, a one and done event isn't gonna get it done. We really
need to embed the an outreach
strategy into the DNA DNA of our church. We talk about this as,
(21:15):
in your discipleship pathway, you need a distinct
outreach step Mhmm. That is characterized by a
primary ministry and maybe some secondary ministries. And a primary ministry
is a way in which you expect
everyone in your church to engage in in in
outreach that can function as a bucket of things or a category of
(21:38):
things. There could be, like, one label on it, so
to speak, with with multiple opportunities underneath that. But
there needs to be some way in which we are expecting people
to, connect with that outreach
strategy, and we hold people accountable to that. So it's not
just two or three people or a handful of people who are engaged in outreach,
(22:00):
but it's an expectation for our whole church. Yeah. I would you know,
I think this is an area that needs some just really good,
thought and prayer and strategy, you know, in the leadership of the
church. You know, some churches also, they just kinda
leave this open where, like, just everybody go out and just find
something, do whatever you want. And that can be a little
(22:22):
difficult to manage. And so and it's really
hard then for, you know, the people that just need that's maybe not how
how they think, their personality. It's better to have
something that you can go. Here's something really specific you can engage in.
And and have it be limited. I mean, you obviously, you want the greatest impact
for the resources that you're gonna be putting into it. And
(22:45):
then, you know, be able to communicate it well, train people to
participate in it, and, you know, have some
continuing education in it as well, supporting people that they can
remain confident in in that area that they're serving in.
All these are important aspects of it. And, it's not just something you just throw
together overnight. It definitely requires some
(23:07):
some thought and some strategy and, some leadership.
It requires people to lead the work, to be able
to, you know, have a point of contact for people to engage with, find out
more more about it, how they can serve, the areas in which they
can serve. You know, there's all kinds of details that go
into this, you know, between scheduling people and and what are we doing,
(23:30):
where is it, how long is it, all these things. So
but, yeah. Developing something that can be sustainable long
term and that, is clear enough in
your church so that people know. They can't hide from it. Are are you either
in this you're participating in this level, or step of our pathway or you're
not. But there would not be any ambiguity, to it.
(23:52):
And I think that's that's an important aspect, because, you
know, the more the more hands that are working in the ministry, the greater,
effectiveness you're gonna have, the greater results you're gonna have. So, yeah, these are all
important parts of it, but it has to be intentional for sure.
Totally. I you know, it's it's just not gonna happen on accident. And and I
think that we don't want people to feel
(24:15):
uncomfortable. You know, we don't we we feel this
tension of, like, I don't know. We don't I don't
wanna ask our people to to step out and do this thing
or whatever. And, we're not serving them
well when we when we don't when we do that.
Jesus makes it pretty clear that following him
(24:39):
requires everything. And so it's okay to make our
people feel a little bit uncomfortable and say, hey. We expect you to be sharing
your faith. Now we we can grease those
wheels. We can provide training for them, maybe a framework. You
know, one of the churches that I worked with last year
introduced me to, a framework called Good God
(25:01):
Gospel, and I really you know, I I've shared that with several churches, and
they really like that framework. They came across it. I
can't remember. You can look it up. I think it's goodgodgospel.com,
and, there's some free resources there helping
be they have had a lot of success with that framework,
(25:21):
helping their people understand not every conversation I have has to be a turn or
burn conversation. It can start with a good conversation. Can I just
build rapport with someone? And I don't have to have an
ulterior motive. Like, I can just have a genuinely good
conversation, and that be enough. You
know, and you have enough good conversations, it leads to a God conversation where you
(25:43):
can talk about how, what the Lord is doing in your own life, just sharing
your own story and, or your perspective on things and what
God is doing in in the world, which can lead to a gospel
conversation. And being equipped to have
each of those kinds of conversations, certain personality types are
like, I don't I don't wanna go to a training. You know? But others are
(26:05):
like, no. I would love to go to a training that gives me a framework.
So you can grease the wheels for them, but to say, hey. This is not
something that we expect of everybody is to leave them an
incomplete disciple. And that's not
good. We we have a we need to disciple people fully, and that
includes empowering them to share their faith. Yeah. Yeah.
(26:26):
Yeah. Help people get over, you know, maybe some some
levels of discomfort that they have. You know? I mean, we all have room to
grow. It doesn't mean everybody becomes, you know, a street corner
evangelist. That's that's not how God designed us.
And hopefully not because that's probably not the most effective form of
evangelism anyway. But but that's what people think a lot of
(26:47):
times. You know, even you use the word evangelism and they're like, oh, I don't
know. That's that sounds scary and cringe. And so
that's why, you know, it takes clear communication. Yeah.
I I mean, I've told this story to various churches and stuff, but
I just always think about this flight that I was on on a mission trip
with, and one of my pastors leaving London on on our way to
(27:09):
to, Nairobi, which was our next layover. And, you know,
one of my pastors having a conversation with a guy in a plane, you know,
and I'm just kind of leaning over, overhearing, you know, the gospel's being
presented and answering questions and overcoming objections. And in the end, you know, I
mean, I'm thinking we're about to have a salvation right here, you know, the
over Southern Europe. But no. That's not how it ended.
(27:31):
The guy was like, okay. That's that's good information. I'm gonna I'll I'm gonna consider
that. It wasn't ready. It wasn't the right time. And I and I always just
think back, you know, like, I mean, I I thought my if anybody was gonna
hear the path the gospel from this guy, they were a
%. They're about to become a believer. And that's not the case. So, you know,
when the greatest of those in that skill and gifting,
(27:54):
don't close the deal, there's hope for all of us, you know, that that we
can we can We can all not close. We can all fail at
it. That's okay. The point is to try.
So, Yeah. You know? But yeah. So that's that's a
an example that I hold on to of encouraging failure,
that, yeah. There we all have got a role to play. It doesn't always look
(28:17):
like that. But I think this is an important thing because it's a scary
thing. It's it's uncomfortable for at least Western
American believers. This is not built into our DNA in most
churches to to be discipled into this is how we
think and how we view the world and how we go about our day.
And it's a it's a very slow movement to to
(28:39):
work. So Yeah. I mean, we live in a you do you
society, so we we don't want to in any way, put
upon someone, you know, our our perspective
or our faith. And and we really have to shift that mindset too
and go, you know, you know, if you know
a person walking in a lie, it
(29:01):
it's wouldn't it be good for them to know the
truth? You know?
I I don't know. That's always been my perspective. It's
like the it's like you think about parenting. You know?
There are times where it's okay to let your kids believe in something or
think something that's not quite true. It might even be a little bit cute. But
(29:24):
then it kinda gets to a point where you're like, oh, no. If I let
this go on, they're gonna grow up
thinking this thing that isn't true. You know?
I I, here's a small example, a dumb one.
And it was it was a a lie of omission, not one of commission
on the part of my parents. But I was a full grown I'm
(29:47):
embarrassed to say how old I was, but I was I was
probably 18 years old before I
understood that,
AJ, what do you call what do you call the things you what's a topping
for salad? It's a little crunchy. Brutons? You got
it. Okay. I was under the impression that that
(30:09):
was called dead bread. What?
Yeah. Because my dad doesn't like croutons, and
so he called it dead bread.
I had I made it all the way to 18 years old before I
realized that's not the real name. Like, those are
called croutons. And I also didn't know that no one else not
(30:32):
only, like yeah. It's not just an alternative name, croutons.
No one's ever heard of it. No one has ever heard of dead bread.
Right? So, yeah, would have been good
for, that wasn't my parent. My dad I've told my parents this, and
they laugh about it, you know, because they didn't intentionally not teach
me the word crouton. It's just that my dad always called it dead bread, so
(30:55):
that's that's just how I learned it. Wow. That's pretty
good. That yeah. I had not heard that story before, Scott.
I'm full of I mean, I'm always good for a story. The point
is, you got people there are people around you who that's a
small, silly thing, but their
lives are filled with lies. Lies about
(31:17):
who they are, lies about why they are the way they are, lies about what
will fix their problems and make them feel good, and they are just as
silly as as dead bread.
And you know the truth. How how loving and kind is it
going looping back to kinda the Good Samaritan? How
loving and kind is it to ignore a person who is
(31:39):
spiritually dying on the side of the road when you have the truth?
And and when we can understand that, we
don't beat people up with the truth then as a consequence of that,
but we do need to come alongside people lovingly with the truth and
be prepared to just share that truth. And,
(31:59):
most of our people are are not thinking about life that way. They're thinking,
I don't wanna impose.
Impose. You have an obligation to to the people who are spiritually dead.
Yeah. Transformation from dead bread
to disciple makes a crouton. To to to to to crouton. Yeah.
(32:20):
That feels like a good place to, maybe just do a quick recap, AJ.
So we're moving, we're moving from that inward focus
to that outward focus. This is how this is how this is how god
designed the church to grow. This right? I mean, if we're gonna take the gospel
to the ends of the earth, it's gotta start with, across the street.
But we've gotta shift from an us to them mindset in the church, because
(32:42):
we we are very comfortable in many of our congregations, not
doing anything different. We've got to understand
who is outside, who do we not know, what are their
needs, And then actually develop a strategy. How are we gonna engage our
people to engage the world and, move this move this
ball forward with people coming to know Christ? So there you
(33:05):
go. Three, very difficult and simple steps.
We would love to help you help you put that together. Yeah. Absolutely. I I
I do wanna just share one encouraging story to wrap as we close.
You know, I've been working with a a church that in the last year or
so that has had has declined
(33:26):
quite a bit over the previous decade.
And, they made some internal changes. Like, they they fixed some things on the
inside, like, spruce some things up and did some signage
changes and initially were
discouraged that things weren't just, like, magically turning around, and they you know, we were
having one of our implementation coaching meetings. And as they were
(33:48):
explaining to me all the things they'd done, I said, the thing you've not yet
done is you gotta go out. Like, you got
to get with the people. And, you know, it was not
just a couple months after that that they that they really leaned into
that, started just simple things, going to festivals
where you're just being present, being visible, getting to
(34:10):
know people. And and in the subsequent months, they have
grown. They've grown something like 40% in the last,
four or five months or so. And so, that it's
this is the key to revitalization. The other stuff is good. It's imp
also important, because when they show up, there needs to be
a healthy church there for them to grow and be discipled in. But
(34:33):
you won't turn around unless you actually focus on on
outreach. Yeah. Absolutely. Alright.
Well, before we go, one quick plug because we're horrible salespeople, but we do
have to mention the Healthy Churches toolkit. So if you'll go to Healthy Churches
toolkit dot com, you can register there for a free seven day
trial and have access to every feature in the toolkit.
(34:55):
Go get in there and explore it. This is coming out around,
the March 1 or so. Easter is right around
the corner, and we've got an amazing Easter resource
hub in there that you would want to take advantage of. So check
that out. Speaking of outreach, there's, like, there's invite cards in there. There's
guest follow-up email sequence generator. There I mean,
(35:18):
there's there's stuff in there that you can use right away to help
you be successful in an Easter outreach strategy. Yeah.
Absolutely. Go to healthy churches, toolkit.com and check that
out. Otherwise, this has been episode 280 of the Church
Revitalization Podcast. And today's show notes are at
malphursgroup.com/280, where you
(35:39):
can, check out today, this week's article and, some resources in
there. Maybe, Scott, I'll even throw the, the link in there to get those
stickers. We got a few of those stickers left for the, laptops. Really? Fresh
stickers. So yeah. Little bonus. Did you do you have one? Do you have one
there? Sure. No. I looked while we were talking. I could it's out of
reach. But yeah. Alright. I'll put that I'll put that in the article this week.
(36:01):
You can see that. Okay. Thanks everybody for being with us. We'll see you again
next time.
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