May 7, 2025 • 32 mins
Read the full show notes at: https://malphursgroup.com/289
Welcome to the Church Revitalization Podcast, where we tackle the real issues facing today’s church leaders. In this episode, hosts Scott Ball and A.J. Mathieu dive into the top five things worship leaders should stop doing right now. With candid stories from Scott’s own years as a worship leader—and A.J.’s trademark humor—they break down common pitfalls and offer practical advice for creating a more engaging, distraction-free worship experience. Whether you’re a worship leader, senior pastor, or just passionate about church health, this episode will challenge your perspective, spark some laughs, and help your church worship grow stronger.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Okay. Look out. Five things worship leaders should stop
doing right now on the Church Revitalization Podcast.
Hello, and welcome to the Church Revitalization Podcast,
brought to you by by the Malphurs Group team, where each week we
tackle important, actionable topics to help churches thrive.
And now, here's your hosts, Scott Ball and AJ
(00:22):
Mathieu.
Welcome to the Church Revitalization podcast. My name is Scott Ball. I'm
joined by my friend and cohost, AJ Mathieu.
Hey. You already got me you already got me worshiping over here. I'm already I'm
ready. Mhmm. A little bit,
little bit of background info for those of you
(00:46):
who are newer to the podcast who maybe don't know,
me very well. I'm I'm
an oversharer, so you know a lot about my Is there anybody that doesn't know
you at this point? I don't know. But Okay. If they've only listened to a
few episodes or if this if this is your first time listening to the podcast,
welcome to the podcast. Yeah. Because of that, the title of this episode,
(01:07):
perhaps. Yeah. Could be. You never know. But I'm a I'm a
former worship leader. Now it was never really my thing.
I, was a second cheerleader in planting a church in Tennessee.
And when you're planting a church, you gotta everybody's gotta wear lots of hats. One
of the hats that I wore was worship leading,
and, I I discarded that hat as I as quickly as I
(01:30):
could because it's not really my favorite thing to
do. I got a guitar in the background. I don't know if you can see
it or not. But Are you, you consider yourself a former worship leader or a
recovering worship leader? Mhmm. I can,
maybe a once in future once in future
worship leader. Meaning, if you called on me to do it in
(01:53):
a pinch, I'd help you out. Okay. Or for a large sum of
money? I
no. Less inclined for the money, but if you needed help, I'd help you. How
about that? And I have no credentials whatsoever on the topic other than being
a highly opinionated worshiper Consultant.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I
(02:15):
give that though, as background because,
I'm gonna say some hard things to worship leaders today that you
really need to hear, but they are all things that someone should have told me
and maybe even tried to tell me back when I was leading worship on a
regular basis because I would say I'm guilty of at least three of
these, and would have argued with
(02:38):
me about them, like why I am now currently wrong,
why I was right to do these things previously.
But I can tell you after a decade of church consulting experience working
with dozens and dozens and dozens of churches around the
globe, I was doing some things wrong,
and and I see these bad habits today,
(03:01):
and you should stop doing them. And if you're a
senior pastor, you can, like, send an anonymous email with
this podcast linked into it, you know, if you don't
wanna start a fight. I would say our list is greater than
50% to the objective and
and lesser to the subjective. Yeah. But yeah. We have
(03:23):
a couple of things that could be subjective, but I think we're I think we're
over half in the objective range on good
versus bad ideas. Yeah. We're engaged. I think we've primed
the pump well enough. Before we, before we start revealing these five
things, though, I do wanna mention, go to
healthychurchestoolkit.com and
(03:44):
register for a free seven day trial. Lots of good stuff in
there on how to be a better leader in general, boost your
leadership skills, streamline ministry, make life easier
for you. Go to healthychurchestoolkit.com. Get
seven days free. K. Do that for a
problem. I'm gonna I'm gonna let you Thanks for your
(04:06):
enthusiasm. I'm looking at our
list. I'm turning on you for any sales there, AJ. I'm super
focused on our list now, on our topic. Okay. I'm
gonna I wanna let normally, we Volley, you know, We have kind
of a rhythm. You know? AJ says it. AJ gives his 2¢. Scott
comes in after. I want you to I want you to hit these on the
(04:28):
at the top. Yeah. You you take us through this. I'm gonna jump in
with my thoughts as we go. Alright. Okay. Number
one, stop singing in keys that are too high.
I know I know that they sing it in b
in the recording. You got that capo four,
and you're really happy about it. And you've worked really hard, and
(04:51):
you can hit the notes. But you know who can't hit them?
Most people. Most of the guys who are sitting there in the
service, they're not hitting those notes. And,
and the the thing is it's not working for the ladies either because when
you sing in those keys, it's kind of too low
for them to sing in their regular octave, but it then it
(05:14):
becomes way too high for them if they sing the the octave up. So
it's not a good key for anybody. Stop doing it.
Just it doesn't need to be the same key as the recording.
Take it down a half step or a step so that it's more
singable. And then you go, but hold on a minute. Then I can't sing the
melody line because these songs often will start
(05:35):
low, and then it's the bridge or the chorus that's way high.
Fine. Have the lady have have someone else who's up there with
you. They can sing the part that to you would then be kind of
low, but they can sing it. So, you know, just get a little
creative, but the goal is to get people singing. And when the key
is too high, people will not sing along. So what's from a
(05:58):
professional standpoint in in song
decision making arrangements and keys and all that stuff, is a worship
leader more so just choosing a key that's just good for
for his or her vocal range? I think so.
Or try to get there. Overestimate their vocal range.
Yeah. There are a lot of guys who are like, I can get there.
(06:20):
And they can. And, I mean, again, I this is one
of the three for sure I was guilty of. And when I was singing a
lot and singing all the time, and my voice was,
you know, stronger, and your your, you know, your voice is a muscle, so when
I when I was practiced a lot, I could I could sing, my natural
voice went higher, because I could, and I could hit higher notes when I
(06:42):
was singing and playing all the time. But now that I've been out of
it for more than a decade, I I can't
hit those notes anymore, comfortably.
And, so I can I can commiserate with the other
men standing there? And, again, my voice is already naturally higher, so the
guys who don't have a voice as high as mine, they're
(07:05):
they're they're really, like they're just standing there. Like, I don't know if you know
this. They're standing there, hands in pockets,
maybe swaying or rocking. They are not singing. It that can app
yeah. I mean, I tend to want to
sing lower. Like, if if I can hit, like, maybe
an octave, go down down the octave where I'm more
(07:27):
naturally wanting to vocalize anyway, I
suppose. You know, I mean, this definitely is an area that
has some subjectivity to it because, you know, every song is different, and it the
song itself might have a a large swing. Perfect magic
that every song listening. Yeah. Right. So but I guess it's, you know,
part of maybe what your what your expertise is supposed to be is
(07:49):
to just consider. Consider the song,
try to try to use your expertise to
to determine what's gonna be the more closely
broadly able to sing key. Yeah. This is, like, maybe a
subpoint and not related to key,
and this is not on our list. But, you know, I guess a similar vein
(08:12):
to this would be, like, if there's a song that's just weird you're it's just
weird to play because it has a weird rhythm to it. That that
song praise that's really popular now, the Brandon Lake
song. It's like there's a it starts
off, like, let everything that has breath.
Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord. Elevation.
(08:35):
Brandon Lake can get up there with the all those guys, and they can do
the clapping, and they can do the the the chanting.
And when you're in your room of a 20 people, they're not people are
not going to do that. Yeah. Some weird syncopation.
Weird. With the chant what? You all didn't catch the upbeat
after, you know Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna have quarter notes of rest. It's
(08:56):
kind of a weird a weird drum
part. Most drummers church drummers are not that
good. Yeah. I'm just being honest. Like, just quit. Just
stop. That's true. Don't do it. There are some on the radio. Yeah. There are
some weird song choices that that get made for sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's
okay. I think that fits in here for this one here. Yeah. Yeah.
(09:18):
Okay. Alright. Alright. Alright. Alright. Oh, yeah. I'm leaving these. Number
two, stop giving us long explanations about songs,
especially the ones when they're when you're doing a new song. I got
two two points. Two reasons for this. The first
one is to a new person, you're immediately calling out to
them what's new to them. Like, to them, all the songs are probably new.
(09:41):
And so when you go, well, we're gonna do a new song, you're immediately kind
of everybody. There are people in the room who go, well, these are all
new to me. And it's further reinforcing that you're an
outsider. I should know. The one that we just did that I didn't know, I
should know. Now this is one that maybe I guess we all don't know it
because it's new for all of us. It just makes that part
(10:03):
weird. Also, I don't know. It's maybe this
is this is subjective. It's just a pet peeve of mine. I'm like, I don't
need to know why you picked this song, probably because
you liked it. Probably you heard it on the radio or on Spotify,
or the new Elevation album came out and you thought it was catchy.
(10:23):
That's the real reason. You don't need to give me some hyper
spiritualized the holy spirit came to you in a dream
and told you we need to sing this new Elevation
song. Doubter you are, Scott. Golly. I hate all that. Can
we stop? Just sing it. You wanna add a new song. You can
say, this one's new for us, but you'll catch on and sing
(10:46):
along. That's okay. That's maybe okay. But then lead it
well. Don't, like if you know it's new, deinstrumentize
a little bit so that people can hear the chorus really well. Any new
song, you wanna make sure that people learn the chorus clearly. So maybe start with
the chorus and you run an acoustic, and then you then you drop out, and
then you and then you hop into the, like, the the fuller instrumentation.
(11:08):
But just I don't need I don't need the long
talk. It's just I don't need a TED talk about the song. I don't
just sing it. Yeah. Yeah. Please. I don't feel as
strongly about this as you, but I am I am
supportive of little less talk, little more playing.
Your job is to sing. Not I mean, if we
(11:31):
it's not your Sunday to preach, and so I don't need an
extra sermon. I don't need to know I I don't need
to know all about your devotional life. I was sitting this
week by the river, and the Lord was saying to me, and
you're playing soft chords. I don't think you're that. You're
taking a song. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yeah.
(11:53):
Now I wouldn't mind, hey, you know, in in
Galatians two, we read blah, blah, and this song where I think
really speaks it well. That to me, that's an appropriate amount of interest.
Talking about that. I'm talking about I'm talking about the three minute
Personalization. Yeah. I don't know. I don't care. Yeah. Yeah. I
don't wanna know. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I would say of the of the
(12:16):
five things we're going over, I was least guilty of this. I would
speak, but only if it was in the thing for me to speak, like I
had to give announcements or I was doing a community meditation, but I was not
one to I'm just someone who knows me. He's probably gonna listen be like,
no no no, But I don't think that this was me because it this is
something that has always kind of annoyed me, so I tried my best not
(12:39):
to do this. I think it's distracting. I think we're
we're not focusing on the moment. Too much can be distracting for sure.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If it is too much, if it's your own personal therapy
session, that's right. You're oversharing. Yeah. Exactly. Get a
podcast. You wanna overshare. You do it here.
This is where we overshare. Okay? There are no captive
(13:02):
audiences here, though. Nobody knows if you're expecting
something else. That's right. You at least have the option to
tune out if you don't wanna hear it. I gotta I gotta sit there
at the pew, like, knowing I got three more of these songs
coming up, or we're gonna talk in front of all of them. Good gosh.
Alright. Okay. Let's go. Okay. Number three.
(13:24):
I'm so used to not being the one starting these. Okay. Number three,
stop being distracting when you're giving direction to the band. Some of you are really
bad at this. Like, you don't need to turn
and do this number, you know, if you're not watching on YouTube,
like, it's like the vamp kind of signal, like, or repeat do it
again. Or if something weird happens, you break a string
(13:47):
or you can't hear in your monitor very well and doing this.
You know, I you know, if the microphone isn't working, probably
the people in the back know that. You don't need to tap on it and
point at it. Like, they're they're they're on it. They're working on it.
Like, there are all kinds of things in direction that you're giving that's
distracting. So there are some ways to remediate this,
(14:09):
from high-tech to low tech. High-tech solution,
obviously, is gonna be using in ear monitors with click
tracks. That's gonna give direction on what's next in the song.
I've I've never played with that. I don't wouldn't like it because it's
to me, it would be distracting to hear the the click. But
you could have, in ear monitors with with talkback bikes and have
(14:33):
someone who's not the main worship leader in the back being a music
director and giving giving verbal cues both to
tech and to the people in the back. That would be fine, and that's
relatively I'd say that's mid tech. You gotta have the in ear
system Mhmm. Which we had that even as a church plant, but
just using a headphone amp. We didn't have a fancy in ear monitor system. We
(14:54):
were just using a headphone amp in the back and a running cable.
So, that was cheap. And,
the the low tech is just getting better, like, run really
good rehearsals and get better at giving
subtle clues that are not distracting.
Yeah. The you know, this one taken to extremes just
(15:17):
demonstrates the lack of prep and rehearsal. Yeah. The
on the one of the most examples that I've seen of this, I think.
Stuff happens that you can't predict, like, technical things.
Yeah. But the set if this stuff is happening consistently,
I think the issue is rehearsal time.
(15:37):
Totally. Yeah. And, like, if you break a string, don't make a big deal
about it. Like, sometimes guys make a big deal. Just I know
it's surprising and you feel like you gotta make a show of it, but just
keep playing. And then when when the song's over, I know
now your whole guitar is out of tune, so don't try to keep playing it.
Just set it down. And if you've got someone else playing keys
(15:58):
or something, just just roll with it. Like, let them play keys.
And if you're fortunate enough to have a backup guitar on hand, grab the
backup. That doesn't always happen. Not everybody's got that. It's okay.
But don't make it big. You're like, ho ho. I gotta. Now I gotta tune.
Ding, ding, nah. We don't I don't
(16:19):
we don't need we don't need all that. Move on. There are there's elements in
this even as I mean, the some of this for some people that have never
even noticed it, they're so, you know, the
things that you know, the there somebody might say, oh, yeah. Golly. It was
shocking when they, you know, they did this. And and other people would be like,
oh, I didn't even see that. But sometimes it's almost
(16:41):
feels performative. You know? I mean I think it's just social
awkwardness, like, not knowing I don't know what to do with my hands, you know,
kind of a thing, so they don't know what to do. So you feel like
you gotta say something. And and I I can relate to this. I've I've broken
I've broken a string and, like, needed to tune in the middle, and you just
don't know what to do. So hard. Oh, man. Yeah.
(17:02):
I'm just into it. Or just not doing good maintenance and changing my strings as
often as I should have. That crusty that
crusty old string. So yeah.
Again, I'm saying this from a place of love and experience. You know,
we don't need to see all that. Okay. Alright. Three down. Two to go. 3
down. Oh, goodness. Okay. Number 4? Number 4. Number four,
(17:24):
stop singing weird songs at Christmas time. Let
alright. Let's let's get into it. Let's get into it.
I I believe we've I've made this statement before in an
earlier episode, but I hate when people say, why don't you
just play songs that everyone knows? That's that I I stand
by that being the most annoying feedback to get as a worship
(17:47):
leader because I stand by the fact that there's no such thing as songs
that everyone knows. Even if you talk about hymns,
different traditions grew up with different hymn books, and so,
that's not even a fair thing to say. Except except
at Christmas. This is the
(18:08):
one time it's the closest you get to everyone
already knowing all of the words. And sometimes it seems like
you wanna make sure we don't know the song anymore that we just do.
You're like, you know what? I'm gonna go out of my way
to not sing a song that people know,
and I'm gonna even make you think you know the song, and then I'm going
(18:30):
to change the melody. I don't get it. Christmas Eve
is not the time to debut your indie folk
EDM arrangement of Oh, Come Oh, Come Emmanuel. Like, I
don't need to hear it. Just Joy to
the World was just fine for
decades. Oh my god. It never needed anything else. It
(18:52):
needed it didn't need unspeakable joy. We were speaking the joy.
The joy was to the world. We were speaking it.
Stop speaking other non joy bringing things within the song. You're
bringing now you're bringing me down. Now you're singing some other random song,
but you're adding Gloria in it somewhere, and now
it's a Christmas song. You've you no. It doesn't work that
(19:15):
way. It's my cynical Scott says
the new Christmas songs are just a scam be
because of for these Christian music
warehouses to make money because all all of the Christmas
songs are in the public domain. Maybe so. I don't know. You can't make money
you can't make money off of joy to the world unless you add a chorus,
(19:37):
then you can. This is this is church's greatest hits.
Everybody's there for the hits. Play it like we
do it. I don't mind if you mess with the arrangement a little bit.
You know what I mean? Like, the instrumentation, like, like, you
know, just don't get it. Maybe. Not too weird. Maybe? Yeah. It
doesn't need to be orchestral. I don't need a bluegrass I don't need a choir
(20:00):
in the back. It's okay if you're playing it acoustic or you're you know, whatever.
That's fine. But it it doesn't need an extra weird chorus.
You know? And I get it. I was
100% guilty of this. If anybody who's listening to this podcast
knows me, you know I have sung
Unspeakable Joy on the stage, and I have and I
(20:22):
have lobbied hard for Christmas songs that are
nontraditional, thinking that it was good.
And I'm just here to tell you I repent, and it wasn't
good. It was never good. It was always a bad idea.
Yeah, man. You know, I
I, in my younger years, went to a pretty traditional
(20:44):
mainline denomination church. And, you know, I
mean, we were literally, like, the couple of times a year in church
family. And so, I actually have, like, a, you know, like, an
attachment to these songs, these traditional
Christmas songs sung in church that I've almost not
been able to recapture anywhere in adulthood because
(21:06):
you never hear them just plainly done
anymore. You know where you can hear them? On the radio.
I am on YouTube music where I can
ask for anything I want. You know, at Christmas
time, if you go to Epcot,
they do Speaking of They do the They do the
(21:30):
Please. Hey. You can repent some more. They they do
the candlelight processional, and a celebrity
comes and reads the Christmas story out of Luke. Because that's what we
need. And they sing traditional Christmas
songs arranged. Disney can stick with, with
something traditional, you can too. Kinda my point,
(21:52):
which is actually why I wanted to bring it up. Be like, if Disney if
Disney recognizes this is one of their most they bring it back every year even
though they hate Christianity pretty much. But this is so
popular that they're reading the Christmas story and
singing traditional Christian Christmas
hymns. Like, not not let it snow, let it snow, but,
(22:14):
like, oh come, oh come, Emmanuel. They're singing that at Epcot. If they're doing
it at Epcot, you should do it at your church. Yeah.
We should just made this a whole episode by itself. Let's start by this one.
Alright. Okay. Anything else? Anything else? Maybe we will, like, Christmas time.
We'll bring it back. Have we gotten it all out of our system? We got
it out of my system. Yeah. Alright. Thank you. Alright. We got one more.
(22:36):
Number five. And this is maybe the maybe this is
the capstone and really kind of the root thing of all of it.
I would say you need to stop caring about how
cool it sounds.
I I get this one. Again, this I put this in the category of things
that I've experienced and been guilty of.
(23:01):
Especially if you're a full time worship leader, you
wanna be like, I I need to kinda prove that I'm
doing something, you know, like, proof of work,
proof that my job is valuable. And so
there's a temptation to just be like, you want people to come up to you
after the service and go, wow. The music was really great today. Like, that's what
(23:24):
you want. You're kinda chasing people saying, you're a really good
worship leader, or you're a great musician, or I the band sounded so tight
today, or that was a great set. Those are the things you're
kind of chasing, maybe even on a subconscious level.
And I would just encourage you to stop caring about that. Now
don't hear me say the music shouldn't be good or excellent. It I think
(23:47):
it should be both good. It should be excellent.
But the goal is congregational
singing, that the people in the room are singing
along with you. That's the win. If you look
around the room, one, if it's so dark in there you can't
even see whether or not people are singing, which is Yep. You're blinded
(24:10):
by them anymore. By the white hot spotlight. Yeah. If the
lights are all on you, you can't see who's in the room. You
don't know if anybody is singing. You can't hear if they're
singing, especially if you got in ears in. In ear. If your person hears you,
then you don't know if you're winning. And and the goal has got to
be I won't I won't put the pressure on you and say
(24:32):
the goal is worship because worship is so much more than just
singing as you know. But the goal would be congregational
singing. Let's put the goalpost there. And you can
become so distracted by is this creative enough? Is
this cool enough? Is this on the cutting edge enough?
Is it excellent enough? Is it all of those things
(24:54):
enough that you lose track of are people singing with me? And
that that to me needs to be sort of the baseline measurement of success.
And and I, again, I'm I'm saying
I'll admit to my faults. I think number one, singing songs were too
high. Definitely guilty of that. I worked hard
on not not being distracting to the band. We didn't have talk backs and stuff,
(25:16):
so I had to do give signals, and I tried
to do that as discreetly as possible. But so,
but number four, guilty of singing weird songs at
Christmas, and care and number five, caring about it sounding
cool or creative, definitely guilty of that. So three out of five, that's
an f. I think I'm failing. So
(25:39):
this is not me judging you. I don't know. I'm
judging you a little bit, but lumping myself in
the judgment and going, I'm as guilty as the rest of it. I'm gonna
give the benefit of the doubt that most of this, if somebody is doing this,
it's not with any intentional
thing that I think most
(26:01):
strong majority of people leading worship are
they care about it as their ministry, their calling.
Yeah. Of course. And sometimes it end up maybe misguided or just, you know, make
bad choices, have bad ideas. Things don't play out the way maybe they thought it
would in their mind. Yeah. You're just swimming in it. Like, it's the pool that
you're swimming in and and, like, especially anymore with social media,
(26:22):
your algorithm's just blowing up with people who are killing it in
in worship, and they're doing things that are really cool. And I
get it. You start going, I mean, could I do that thing? Could I incorporate
that thing? Yeah. You just start chasing that, and you're getting away from what the
point is. Yeah. But, you know, I mean, being aware of what everybody
else in the world is doing can I mean, it's a double edged sword?
(26:43):
It can be, you know, it can be good for for ideas or, you know,
to experience things. But, yeah, on the other hand, you're like, oh,
wow. You know, sometimes what other people are
doing isn't helpful or beneficial either. You don't need to mimic them or try
it. Yeah. So Yeah. Exactly. So,
that's it. I'll recap. Number one, stop singing songs that are too
(27:05):
high. Number two, stop giving us long explanations
about things or just talking. Stop stop
talking, start singing, or just less of it. Just
minimize it. Yeah. Exactly.
And some of it we don't need to know at all. You should just never
share. Three, stop being distracting when giving direction to
(27:28):
the band. There's different solutions to that. Some of that is just
skill. You learn it over time and will improve.
Four, stop singing weird songs at Christmas time.
Yep. Please. And, stop caring how
cool it sounds. Maybe a bonus thing I would say, maybe this is a start,
not a stop, just to kind of wrap this up, is your job up
(27:51):
there is you're the leader? I think there are some guys
and gals, who get up there, you know, and
they're concerned, like, am I in it? You know,
they're like, I gotta be up there and I'm I'm really
into it. And, I don't think that's
the job. I think the job is you are leading others in worship.
(28:13):
You should be fully present. I think you need to kind of have eyes open.
I'm not saying you can never have your eyes closed or whatever, but keep your
eyes open. Watch what's happening because what
difference does it make if you're you're a % in it and
you're vibing and no one else is?
Like, you That's not the job. Yeah.
(28:35):
You are a worship leader. Mhmm. You
are leading the singing of the songs. Yeah. I think I
I I think I, I'm picking up what you're putting down there. Yeah. Yeah. That
if you can get if you're if you're so experientially
departed into the space of the song in the worship
(28:56):
yourself, that for some reason that makes everybody else be
there with you, and that's not always the case. Yeah. I think there are some
guys who are like, and I got to be really feeling it. I'm like, you
don't, though. Like, that's not the job. Feel it
when you're when you're on your own. You know, that's fine.
But when you're a leader, your job is to lead. And how does it
(29:19):
can be true if you don't have the,
you know, the yeah. You can be you can appear
very disconnected. But as a professional,
that shouldn't ever be evident. Yeah. I mean, I I guess you should you need
to be worshiping. I I guess my point is know what your role
is. Your role is not to be
(29:41):
up there sort of, like,
people watching you worship, and then hopefully they'll mimic you.
Yeah. That's not what it is. Yeah. Your job is to
bring people along with you, and it and I know that's hard. You
and I were having conversation pre roll about what
does that look like? What is what is leading look like? And and and a
(30:04):
lot of it is is not it's it's you know,
I can't I can't point to a technique or but it's a soft skill
that you develop in kind of reading a room.
And it's not altogether different from in some
to some degree, like, what theater is. Like, being you know when you're
bombing, like, when's when the audience isn't with you and
(30:26):
having to present yourself in a particular way so that people catch on
with what's happening. And and it's that same
preaching's the same way. Are people connecting? Are are
people dozing? Or the what am I you know, all of it these are
leadership skills. Some of them spiritual, some of them
practical. And you Mhmm. And I would just encourage worship leaders to
(30:48):
care more about the leadership side of the worship and not just the musical side
of it. Like, have an awareness of are we leading these people.
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's I think that's good. I think it's a good way
of of trying to put this into an understandable
perspective. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. There you go. That's it. There
you go. More than ten years removed from the role. These are
(31:10):
my reflections, and thank you for letting me get this off my chest. Thank you
for coming to my TED Talk. Love it or hate it. Might have some extreme
reactions to this, but you know what? It's all beneficial to us on YouTube whether,
you're angry or you're excited. The the algorithm loves your engagement.
So you can you can let us know either way. Smash
that button, bell, and liking,
(31:33):
and share this with a worship leader you know.
To to make them also angry if you were. So, yeah, you
can throw us into the bus. That's that's okay. That's, yeah.
Okay. We can take that every now and then. Alright. Hey. Thanks for joining us
on the Church Revitalization podcast. Whether you are listening
on your favorite podcast app or watching over on
(31:54):
YouTube. We'll be back in those same places again next week,
bringing you, hopefully, something engaging, challenging,
like it or not. It's really weekend. Thanks, everybody. See you next
week.
Okay. Look out. Five things worship leaders should stop
doing right now on the Church Revitalization Podcast.
Hello, and welcome to the Church Revitalization Podcast,
brought to you by by the Malphurs Group team, where each week we
tackle important, actionable topics to help churches thrive.
And now, here's your hosts, Scott Ball and AJ
(00:22):
Mathieu.
Welcome to the Church Revitalization podcast. My name is Scott Ball. I'm
joined by my friend and cohost, AJ Mathieu.
Hey. You already got me you already got me worshiping over here. I'm already I'm
ready. Mhmm. A little bit,
little bit of background info for those of you
(00:46):
who are newer to the podcast who maybe don't know,
me very well. I'm I'm
an oversharer, so you know a lot about my Is there anybody that doesn't know
you at this point? I don't know. But Okay. If they've only listened to a
few episodes or if this if this is your first time listening to the podcast,
welcome to the podcast. Yeah. Because of that, the title of this episode,
(01:07):
perhaps. Yeah. Could be. You never know. But I'm a I'm a
former worship leader. Now it was never really my thing.
I, was a second cheerleader in planting a church in Tennessee.
And when you're planting a church, you gotta everybody's gotta wear lots of hats. One
of the hats that I wore was worship leading,
and, I I discarded that hat as I as quickly as I
(01:30):
could because it's not really my favorite thing to
do. I got a guitar in the background. I don't know if you can see
it or not. But Are you, you consider yourself a former worship leader or a
recovering worship leader? Mhmm. I can,
maybe a once in future once in future
worship leader. Meaning, if you called on me to do it in
(01:53):
a pinch, I'd help you out. Okay. Or for a large sum of
money? I
no. Less inclined for the money, but if you needed help, I'd help you. How
about that? And I have no credentials whatsoever on the topic other than being
a highly opinionated worshiper Consultant.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I
(02:15):
give that though, as background because,
I'm gonna say some hard things to worship leaders today that you
really need to hear, but they are all things that someone should have told me
and maybe even tried to tell me back when I was leading worship on a
regular basis because I would say I'm guilty of at least three of
these, and would have argued with
(02:38):
me about them, like why I am now currently wrong,
why I was right to do these things previously.
But I can tell you after a decade of church consulting experience working
with dozens and dozens and dozens of churches around the
globe, I was doing some things wrong,
and and I see these bad habits today,
(03:01):
and you should stop doing them. And if you're a
senior pastor, you can, like, send an anonymous email with
this podcast linked into it, you know, if you don't
wanna start a fight. I would say our list is greater than
50% to the objective and
and lesser to the subjective. Yeah. But yeah. We have
(03:23):
a couple of things that could be subjective, but I think we're I think we're
over half in the objective range on good
versus bad ideas. Yeah. We're engaged. I think we've primed
the pump well enough. Before we, before we start revealing these five
things, though, I do wanna mention, go to
healthychurchestoolkit.com and
(03:44):
register for a free seven day trial. Lots of good stuff in
there on how to be a better leader in general, boost your
leadership skills, streamline ministry, make life easier
for you. Go to healthychurchestoolkit.com. Get
seven days free. K. Do that for a
problem. I'm gonna I'm gonna let you Thanks for your
(04:06):
enthusiasm. I'm looking at our
list. I'm turning on you for any sales there, AJ. I'm super
focused on our list now, on our topic. Okay. I'm
gonna I wanna let normally, we Volley, you know, We have kind
of a rhythm. You know? AJ says it. AJ gives his 2¢. Scott
comes in after. I want you to I want you to hit these on the
(04:28):
at the top. Yeah. You you take us through this. I'm gonna jump in
with my thoughts as we go. Alright. Okay. Number
one, stop singing in keys that are too high.
I know I know that they sing it in b
in the recording. You got that capo four,
and you're really happy about it. And you've worked really hard, and
(04:51):
you can hit the notes. But you know who can't hit them?
Most people. Most of the guys who are sitting there in the
service, they're not hitting those notes. And,
and the the thing is it's not working for the ladies either because when
you sing in those keys, it's kind of too low
for them to sing in their regular octave, but it then it
(05:14):
becomes way too high for them if they sing the the octave up. So
it's not a good key for anybody. Stop doing it.
Just it doesn't need to be the same key as the recording.
Take it down a half step or a step so that it's more
singable. And then you go, but hold on a minute. Then I can't sing the
melody line because these songs often will start
(05:35):
low, and then it's the bridge or the chorus that's way high.
Fine. Have the lady have have someone else who's up there with
you. They can sing the part that to you would then be kind of
low, but they can sing it. So, you know, just get a little
creative, but the goal is to get people singing. And when the key
is too high, people will not sing along. So what's from a
(05:58):
professional standpoint in in song
decision making arrangements and keys and all that stuff, is a worship
leader more so just choosing a key that's just good for
for his or her vocal range? I think so.
Or try to get there. Overestimate their vocal range.
Yeah. There are a lot of guys who are like, I can get there.
(06:20):
And they can. And, I mean, again, I this is one
of the three for sure I was guilty of. And when I was singing a
lot and singing all the time, and my voice was,
you know, stronger, and your your, you know, your voice is a muscle, so when
I when I was practiced a lot, I could I could sing, my natural
voice went higher, because I could, and I could hit higher notes when I
(06:42):
was singing and playing all the time. But now that I've been out of
it for more than a decade, I I can't
hit those notes anymore, comfortably.
And, so I can I can commiserate with the other
men standing there? And, again, my voice is already naturally higher, so the
guys who don't have a voice as high as mine, they're
(07:05):
they're they're really, like they're just standing there. Like, I don't know if you know
this. They're standing there, hands in pockets,
maybe swaying or rocking. They are not singing. It that can app
yeah. I mean, I tend to want to
sing lower. Like, if if I can hit, like, maybe
an octave, go down down the octave where I'm more
(07:27):
naturally wanting to vocalize anyway, I
suppose. You know, I mean, this definitely is an area that
has some subjectivity to it because, you know, every song is different, and it the
song itself might have a a large swing. Perfect magic
that every song listening. Yeah. Right. So but I guess it's, you know,
part of maybe what your what your expertise is supposed to be is
(07:49):
to just consider. Consider the song,
try to try to use your expertise to
to determine what's gonna be the more closely
broadly able to sing key. Yeah. This is, like, maybe a
subpoint and not related to key,
and this is not on our list. But, you know, I guess a similar vein
(08:12):
to this would be, like, if there's a song that's just weird you're it's just
weird to play because it has a weird rhythm to it. That that
song praise that's really popular now, the Brandon Lake
song. It's like there's a it starts
off, like, let everything that has breath.
Praise the Lord. Praise the Lord. Elevation.
(08:35):
Brandon Lake can get up there with the all those guys, and they can do
the clapping, and they can do the the the chanting.
And when you're in your room of a 20 people, they're not people are
not going to do that. Yeah. Some weird syncopation.
Weird. With the chant what? You all didn't catch the upbeat
after, you know Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna have quarter notes of rest. It's
(08:56):
kind of a weird a weird drum
part. Most drummers church drummers are not that
good. Yeah. I'm just being honest. Like, just quit. Just
stop. That's true. Don't do it. There are some on the radio. Yeah. There are
some weird song choices that that get made for sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's
okay. I think that fits in here for this one here. Yeah. Yeah.
(09:18):
Okay. Alright. Alright. Alright. Alright. Oh, yeah. I'm leaving these. Number
two, stop giving us long explanations about songs,
especially the ones when they're when you're doing a new song. I got
two two points. Two reasons for this. The first
one is to a new person, you're immediately calling out to
them what's new to them. Like, to them, all the songs are probably new.
(09:41):
And so when you go, well, we're gonna do a new song, you're immediately kind
of everybody. There are people in the room who go, well, these are all
new to me. And it's further reinforcing that you're an
outsider. I should know. The one that we just did that I didn't know, I
should know. Now this is one that maybe I guess we all don't know it
because it's new for all of us. It just makes that part
(10:03):
weird. Also, I don't know. It's maybe this
is this is subjective. It's just a pet peeve of mine. I'm like, I don't
need to know why you picked this song, probably because
you liked it. Probably you heard it on the radio or on Spotify,
or the new Elevation album came out and you thought it was catchy.
(10:23):
That's the real reason. You don't need to give me some hyper
spiritualized the holy spirit came to you in a dream
and told you we need to sing this new Elevation
song. Doubter you are, Scott. Golly. I hate all that. Can
we stop? Just sing it. You wanna add a new song. You can
say, this one's new for us, but you'll catch on and sing
(10:46):
along. That's okay. That's maybe okay. But then lead it
well. Don't, like if you know it's new, deinstrumentize
a little bit so that people can hear the chorus really well. Any new
song, you wanna make sure that people learn the chorus clearly. So maybe start with
the chorus and you run an acoustic, and then you then you drop out, and
then you and then you hop into the, like, the the fuller instrumentation.
(11:08):
But just I don't need I don't need the long
talk. It's just I don't need a TED talk about the song. I don't
just sing it. Yeah. Yeah. Please. I don't feel as
strongly about this as you, but I am I am
supportive of little less talk, little more playing.
Your job is to sing. Not I mean, if we
(11:31):
it's not your Sunday to preach, and so I don't need an
extra sermon. I don't need to know I I don't need
to know all about your devotional life. I was sitting this
week by the river, and the Lord was saying to me, and
you're playing soft chords. I don't think you're that. You're
taking a song. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yeah.
(11:53):
Now I wouldn't mind, hey, you know, in in
Galatians two, we read blah, blah, and this song where I think
really speaks it well. That to me, that's an appropriate amount of interest.
Talking about that. I'm talking about I'm talking about the three minute
Personalization. Yeah. I don't know. I don't care. Yeah. Yeah. I
don't wanna know. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I would say of the of the
(12:16):
five things we're going over, I was least guilty of this. I would
speak, but only if it was in the thing for me to speak, like I
had to give announcements or I was doing a community meditation, but I was not
one to I'm just someone who knows me. He's probably gonna listen be like,
no no no, But I don't think that this was me because it this is
something that has always kind of annoyed me, so I tried my best not
(12:39):
to do this. I think it's distracting. I think we're
we're not focusing on the moment. Too much can be distracting for sure.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If it is too much, if it's your own personal therapy
session, that's right. You're oversharing. Yeah. Exactly. Get a
podcast. You wanna overshare. You do it here.
This is where we overshare. Okay? There are no captive
(13:02):
audiences here, though. Nobody knows if you're expecting
something else. That's right. You at least have the option to
tune out if you don't wanna hear it. I gotta I gotta sit there
at the pew, like, knowing I got three more of these songs
coming up, or we're gonna talk in front of all of them. Good gosh.
Alright. Okay. Let's go. Okay. Number three.
(13:24):
I'm so used to not being the one starting these. Okay. Number three,
stop being distracting when you're giving direction to the band. Some of you are really
bad at this. Like, you don't need to turn
and do this number, you know, if you're not watching on YouTube,
like, it's like the vamp kind of signal, like, or repeat do it
again. Or if something weird happens, you break a string
(13:47):
or you can't hear in your monitor very well and doing this.
You know, I you know, if the microphone isn't working, probably
the people in the back know that. You don't need to tap on it and
point at it. Like, they're they're they're on it. They're working on it.
Like, there are all kinds of things in direction that you're giving that's
distracting. So there are some ways to remediate this,
(14:09):
from high-tech to low tech. High-tech solution,
obviously, is gonna be using in ear monitors with click
tracks. That's gonna give direction on what's next in the song.
I've I've never played with that. I don't wouldn't like it because it's
to me, it would be distracting to hear the the click. But
you could have, in ear monitors with with talkback bikes and have
(14:33):
someone who's not the main worship leader in the back being a music
director and giving giving verbal cues both to
tech and to the people in the back. That would be fine, and that's
relatively I'd say that's mid tech. You gotta have the in ear
system Mhmm. Which we had that even as a church plant, but
just using a headphone amp. We didn't have a fancy in ear monitor system. We
(14:54):
were just using a headphone amp in the back and a running cable.
So, that was cheap. And,
the the low tech is just getting better, like, run really
good rehearsals and get better at giving
subtle clues that are not distracting.
Yeah. The you know, this one taken to extremes just
(15:17):
demonstrates the lack of prep and rehearsal. Yeah. The
on the one of the most examples that I've seen of this, I think.
Stuff happens that you can't predict, like, technical things.
Yeah. But the set if this stuff is happening consistently,
I think the issue is rehearsal time.
(15:37):
Totally. Yeah. And, like, if you break a string, don't make a big deal
about it. Like, sometimes guys make a big deal. Just I know
it's surprising and you feel like you gotta make a show of it, but just
keep playing. And then when when the song's over, I know
now your whole guitar is out of tune, so don't try to keep playing it.
Just set it down. And if you've got someone else playing keys
(15:58):
or something, just just roll with it. Like, let them play keys.
And if you're fortunate enough to have a backup guitar on hand, grab the
backup. That doesn't always happen. Not everybody's got that. It's okay.
But don't make it big. You're like, ho ho. I gotta. Now I gotta tune.
Ding, ding, nah. We don't I don't
(16:19):
we don't need we don't need all that. Move on. There are there's elements in
this even as I mean, the some of this for some people that have never
even noticed it, they're so, you know, the
things that you know, the there somebody might say, oh, yeah. Golly. It was
shocking when they, you know, they did this. And and other people would be like,
oh, I didn't even see that. But sometimes it's almost
(16:41):
feels performative. You know? I mean I think it's just social
awkwardness, like, not knowing I don't know what to do with my hands, you know,
kind of a thing, so they don't know what to do. So you feel like
you gotta say something. And and I I can relate to this. I've I've broken
I've broken a string and, like, needed to tune in the middle, and you just
don't know what to do. So hard. Oh, man. Yeah.
(17:02):
I'm just into it. Or just not doing good maintenance and changing my strings as
often as I should have. That crusty that
crusty old string. So yeah.
Again, I'm saying this from a place of love and experience. You know,
we don't need to see all that. Okay. Alright. Three down. Two to go. 3
down. Oh, goodness. Okay. Number 4? Number 4. Number four,
(17:24):
stop singing weird songs at Christmas time. Let
alright. Let's let's get into it. Let's get into it.
I I believe we've I've made this statement before in an
earlier episode, but I hate when people say, why don't you
just play songs that everyone knows? That's that I I stand
by that being the most annoying feedback to get as a worship
(17:47):
leader because I stand by the fact that there's no such thing as songs
that everyone knows. Even if you talk about hymns,
different traditions grew up with different hymn books, and so,
that's not even a fair thing to say. Except except
at Christmas. This is the
(18:08):
one time it's the closest you get to everyone
already knowing all of the words. And sometimes it seems like
you wanna make sure we don't know the song anymore that we just do.
You're like, you know what? I'm gonna go out of my way
to not sing a song that people know,
and I'm gonna even make you think you know the song, and then I'm going
(18:30):
to change the melody. I don't get it. Christmas Eve
is not the time to debut your indie folk
EDM arrangement of Oh, Come Oh, Come Emmanuel. Like, I
don't need to hear it. Just Joy to
the World was just fine for
decades. Oh my god. It never needed anything else. It
(18:52):
needed it didn't need unspeakable joy. We were speaking the joy.
The joy was to the world. We were speaking it.
Stop speaking other non joy bringing things within the song. You're
bringing now you're bringing me down. Now you're singing some other random song,
but you're adding Gloria in it somewhere, and now
it's a Christmas song. You've you no. It doesn't work that
(19:15):
way. It's my cynical Scott says
the new Christmas songs are just a scam be
because of for these Christian music
warehouses to make money because all all of the Christmas
songs are in the public domain. Maybe so. I don't know. You can't make money
you can't make money off of joy to the world unless you add a chorus,
(19:37):
then you can. This is this is church's greatest hits.
Everybody's there for the hits. Play it like we
do it. I don't mind if you mess with the arrangement a little bit.
You know what I mean? Like, the instrumentation, like, like, you
know, just don't get it. Maybe. Not too weird. Maybe? Yeah. It
doesn't need to be orchestral. I don't need a bluegrass I don't need a choir
(20:00):
in the back. It's okay if you're playing it acoustic or you're you know, whatever.
That's fine. But it it doesn't need an extra weird chorus.
You know? And I get it. I was
100% guilty of this. If anybody who's listening to this podcast
knows me, you know I have sung
Unspeakable Joy on the stage, and I have and I
(20:22):
have lobbied hard for Christmas songs that are
nontraditional, thinking that it was good.
And I'm just here to tell you I repent, and it wasn't
good. It was never good. It was always a bad idea.
Yeah, man. You know, I
I, in my younger years, went to a pretty traditional
(20:44):
mainline denomination church. And, you know, I
mean, we were literally, like, the couple of times a year in church
family. And so, I actually have, like, a, you know, like, an
attachment to these songs, these traditional
Christmas songs sung in church that I've almost not
been able to recapture anywhere in adulthood because
(21:06):
you never hear them just plainly done
anymore. You know where you can hear them? On the radio.
I am on YouTube music where I can
ask for anything I want. You know, at Christmas
time, if you go to Epcot,
they do Speaking of They do the They do the
(21:30):
Please. Hey. You can repent some more. They they do
the candlelight processional, and a celebrity
comes and reads the Christmas story out of Luke. Because that's what we
need. And they sing traditional Christmas
songs arranged. Disney can stick with, with
something traditional, you can too. Kinda my point,
(21:52):
which is actually why I wanted to bring it up. Be like, if Disney if
Disney recognizes this is one of their most they bring it back every year even
though they hate Christianity pretty much. But this is so
popular that they're reading the Christmas story and
singing traditional Christian Christmas
hymns. Like, not not let it snow, let it snow, but,
(22:14):
like, oh come, oh come, Emmanuel. They're singing that at Epcot. If they're doing
it at Epcot, you should do it at your church. Yeah.
We should just made this a whole episode by itself. Let's start by this one.
Alright. Okay. Anything else? Anything else? Maybe we will, like, Christmas time.
We'll bring it back. Have we gotten it all out of our system? We got
it out of my system. Yeah. Alright. Thank you. Alright. We got one more.
(22:36):
Number five. And this is maybe the maybe this is
the capstone and really kind of the root thing of all of it.
I would say you need to stop caring about how
cool it sounds.
I I get this one. Again, this I put this in the category of things
that I've experienced and been guilty of.
(23:01):
Especially if you're a full time worship leader, you
wanna be like, I I need to kinda prove that I'm
doing something, you know, like, proof of work,
proof that my job is valuable. And so
there's a temptation to just be like, you want people to come up to you
after the service and go, wow. The music was really great today. Like, that's what
(23:24):
you want. You're kinda chasing people saying, you're a really good
worship leader, or you're a great musician, or I the band sounded so tight
today, or that was a great set. Those are the things you're
kind of chasing, maybe even on a subconscious level.
And I would just encourage you to stop caring about that. Now
don't hear me say the music shouldn't be good or excellent. It I think
(23:47):
it should be both good. It should be excellent.
But the goal is congregational
singing, that the people in the room are singing
along with you. That's the win. If you look
around the room, one, if it's so dark in there you can't
even see whether or not people are singing, which is Yep. You're blinded
(24:10):
by them anymore. By the white hot spotlight. Yeah. If the
lights are all on you, you can't see who's in the room. You
don't know if anybody is singing. You can't hear if they're
singing, especially if you got in ears in. In ear. If your person hears you,
then you don't know if you're winning. And and the goal has got to
be I won't I won't put the pressure on you and say
(24:32):
the goal is worship because worship is so much more than just
singing as you know. But the goal would be congregational
singing. Let's put the goalpost there. And you can
become so distracted by is this creative enough? Is
this cool enough? Is this on the cutting edge enough?
Is it excellent enough? Is it all of those things
(24:54):
enough that you lose track of are people singing with me? And
that that to me needs to be sort of the baseline measurement of success.
And and I, again, I'm I'm saying
I'll admit to my faults. I think number one, singing songs were too
high. Definitely guilty of that. I worked hard
on not not being distracting to the band. We didn't have talk backs and stuff,
(25:16):
so I had to do give signals, and I tried
to do that as discreetly as possible. But so,
but number four, guilty of singing weird songs at
Christmas, and care and number five, caring about it sounding
cool or creative, definitely guilty of that. So three out of five, that's
an f. I think I'm failing. So
(25:39):
this is not me judging you. I don't know. I'm
judging you a little bit, but lumping myself in
the judgment and going, I'm as guilty as the rest of it. I'm gonna
give the benefit of the doubt that most of this, if somebody is doing this,
it's not with any intentional
thing that I think most
(26:01):
strong majority of people leading worship are
they care about it as their ministry, their calling.
Yeah. Of course. And sometimes it end up maybe misguided or just, you know, make
bad choices, have bad ideas. Things don't play out the way maybe they thought it
would in their mind. Yeah. You're just swimming in it. Like, it's the pool that
you're swimming in and and, like, especially anymore with social media,
(26:22):
your algorithm's just blowing up with people who are killing it in
in worship, and they're doing things that are really cool. And I
get it. You start going, I mean, could I do that thing? Could I incorporate
that thing? Yeah. You just start chasing that, and you're getting away from what the
point is. Yeah. But, you know, I mean, being aware of what everybody
else in the world is doing can I mean, it's a double edged sword?
(26:43):
It can be, you know, it can be good for for ideas or, you know,
to experience things. But, yeah, on the other hand, you're like, oh,
wow. You know, sometimes what other people are
doing isn't helpful or beneficial either. You don't need to mimic them or try
it. Yeah. So Yeah. Exactly. So,
that's it. I'll recap. Number one, stop singing songs that are too
(27:05):
high. Number two, stop giving us long explanations
about things or just talking. Stop stop
talking, start singing, or just less of it. Just
minimize it. Yeah. Exactly.
And some of it we don't need to know at all. You should just never
share. Three, stop being distracting when giving direction to
(27:28):
the band. There's different solutions to that. Some of that is just
skill. You learn it over time and will improve.
Four, stop singing weird songs at Christmas time.
Yep. Please. And, stop caring how
cool it sounds. Maybe a bonus thing I would say, maybe this is a start,
not a stop, just to kind of wrap this up, is your job up
(27:51):
there is you're the leader? I think there are some guys
and gals, who get up there, you know, and
they're concerned, like, am I in it? You know,
they're like, I gotta be up there and I'm I'm really
into it. And, I don't think that's
the job. I think the job is you are leading others in worship.
(28:13):
You should be fully present. I think you need to kind of have eyes open.
I'm not saying you can never have your eyes closed or whatever, but keep your
eyes open. Watch what's happening because what
difference does it make if you're you're a % in it and
you're vibing and no one else is?
Like, you That's not the job. Yeah.
(28:35):
You are a worship leader. Mhmm. You
are leading the singing of the songs. Yeah. I think I
I I think I, I'm picking up what you're putting down there. Yeah. Yeah. That
if you can get if you're if you're so experientially
departed into the space of the song in the worship
(28:56):
yourself, that for some reason that makes everybody else be
there with you, and that's not always the case. Yeah. I think there are some
guys who are like, and I got to be really feeling it. I'm like, you
don't, though. Like, that's not the job. Feel it
when you're when you're on your own. You know, that's fine.
But when you're a leader, your job is to lead. And how does it
(29:19):
can be true if you don't have the,
you know, the yeah. You can be you can appear
very disconnected. But as a professional,
that shouldn't ever be evident. Yeah. I mean, I I guess you should you need
to be worshiping. I I guess my point is know what your role
is. Your role is not to be
(29:41):
up there sort of, like,
people watching you worship, and then hopefully they'll mimic you.
Yeah. That's not what it is. Yeah. Your job is to
bring people along with you, and it and I know that's hard. You
and I were having conversation pre roll about what
does that look like? What is what is leading look like? And and and a
(30:04):
lot of it is is not it's it's you know,
I can't I can't point to a technique or but it's a soft skill
that you develop in kind of reading a room.
And it's not altogether different from in some
to some degree, like, what theater is. Like, being you know when you're
bombing, like, when's when the audience isn't with you and
(30:26):
having to present yourself in a particular way so that people catch on
with what's happening. And and it's that same
preaching's the same way. Are people connecting? Are are
people dozing? Or the what am I you know, all of it these are
leadership skills. Some of them spiritual, some of them
practical. And you Mhmm. And I would just encourage worship leaders to
(30:48):
care more about the leadership side of the worship and not just the musical side
of it. Like, have an awareness of are we leading these people.
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's I think that's good. I think it's a good way
of of trying to put this into an understandable
perspective. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. There you go. That's it. There
you go. More than ten years removed from the role. These are
(31:10):
my reflections, and thank you for letting me get this off my chest. Thank you
for coming to my TED Talk. Love it or hate it. Might have some extreme
reactions to this, but you know what? It's all beneficial to us on YouTube whether,
you're angry or you're excited. The the algorithm loves your engagement.
So you can you can let us know either way. Smash
that button, bell, and liking,
(31:33):
and share this with a worship leader you know.
To to make them also angry if you were. So, yeah, you
can throw us into the bus. That's that's okay. That's, yeah.
Okay. We can take that every now and then. Alright. Hey. Thanks for joining us
on the Church Revitalization podcast. Whether you are listening
on your favorite podcast app or watching over on
(31:54):
YouTube. We'll be back in those same places again next week,
bringing you, hopefully, something engaging, challenging,
like it or not. It's really weekend. Thanks, everybody. See you next
week.
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