Feeling burned out and wondering why sleep isn’t enough to truly restore you?
Welcome to The Collide Podcast Summer Highlight Series!
All summer long, we’re re-airing some of our most impactful episodes — conversations that have stirred hearts, sparked healing, and inspired real-life collisions with Jesus. Whether this is your first time listening or a return visit, each episode is filled with life-giving truth and purpose.
This episode originally aired in April 2024 and quickly became a listener favorite. In this conversation, Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith offers a transformative framework for understanding rest—not just sleep, but seven specific types of rest we all need to truly refresh our bodies and souls.
About This Episode
Burnout doesn’t just happen from doing too much—it can happen from not getting the right kind of rest. In this episode, Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith unpacks insights from her book Sacred Rest and shares her personal journey through exhaustion and into restoration. You’ll gain practical tools for recognizing your rest deficits and learn how to begin replenishing what’s truly empty.
Meet Dr. Saundra Dalton Smith
Dr. Smith is a board-certified internal medicine physician, speaker, author, and work-life integration researcher. She’s the founder of Restorasis, a wellness-focused organization dedicated to burnout prevention and restoring well-being in the workplace. With deep expertise and lived experience, she helps people reconnect with the kind of rest that actually heals.
In This Episode, You’ll Learn
- Why sleep alone doesn’t equal rest
- The 7 types of rest and how to identify which one you’re missing
- How burnout shows up in unexpected ways
- Practical strategies to begin restoring your energy and joy
- How rest connects with your faith, purpose, and calling
How This Episode Will Encourage You
If you’re feeling depleted, overwhelmed, or like you’re running on empty, this episode will help you name what you’re missing and offer a path back to peace. You’ll leave with a deeper understanding of how rest is sacred, strategic, and essential—not just for surviving, but for living fully into who God created you to be.
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Check Out These Collide Resources Inspired by This Episode
6 Places to Go Looking for God – This guide will help you find and experience God in fresh, life-giving ways, encouraging spiritual growth and renewing your faith.
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✨ Learn more and grab your ticket at wecollide.net/conferences
Connect with Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith - Website | Instagram | Facebook
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:14):
Hey there. Welcome to theCollide Podcast. This is Willow Weston,
the founder and director ofCollide and I am so glad you hopped
on today. If you are asubscriber, I love that we get to
hang out with each other everysingle week. And here hear from people
who are experiencing theliving God showing up and doing amazing
(00:39):
things in their life andthrough their life. And today's no
different. I got to sit downwith Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith, who
is an internal medicinephysician, a researcher, a speaker.
She is an author of severalbooks, and today we got to talk about
her book, Sacred Rest. And Idon't know about you, but if you're
(01:02):
like me and. And you sort ofroll your eyes and you don't want
to talk about rest becauseyour to do list is too long and your
responsibilities are tooheavy, and you don't want someone
telling you to stop and donothing, that's often how I feel
about rest. But I promise you,this conversation was so much different
(01:22):
than that. In fact, I justheard things from Dr. Sandra about
rest that I have never heardbefore, so. So take a listen. Well,
Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith, it'sso good to have you on the podcast
today. Welcome in from Alabama.
(01:45):
Thanks, Willow. Excited to bewith you.
Yeah, I obviously did a littleresearch on you. You're a physician,
a speaker, an author, aresearcher. You've been featured
on many major networks. Youare a featured te talk speaker. You've
given keynote talks at avariety of corporate and nonprofit
(02:07):
events. I mean, there's justthis long resume of so many things
you've done. And I looked atthis, and I thought, wow, this woman
has worked really hard to getinto the work of inviting people
to recover and rest from overworking.
You know what? I. I couldunderstand why you think that, and
I do feel like I have workedreally hard. But one thing that's
(02:30):
really interesting with thatentire journey is after wr writing
my book on rest, I had aseason where God actually kind of
pulled me away from themarketing and the research and basically
gave me kind of an invitationto watch him do it. So some of the.
The bigger names that you seethere, I didn't lift a finger. I
(02:51):
basically stood in awe of Godorchestrating it all. So it's been
really an interesting journey.
Well, I figured there must bea story behind your passion to invite
people to rest, to invitepeople to recover from burnout. There
must be something that you'veexperienced, you've seen or witnessed
(03:14):
firsthand that's given youpassion about this topic. Can you
tell us More about that?
Yeah, there definitely is. Iburned out in my burnout journey
started pretty soon after Istarted my practice as an internal
medicine physician. I was inpractice for about five years. It
was around that time that myhusband and I were blessed with children.
(03:34):
Both of our sons came kind ofback to back. They were 21 months
apart. And I thought I had itall together, ready to be a mommy
and do all the things. Butthat was kind of the last straw on
my capacity. And I justremember one day coming home from
the office after, you know,doing everything I had to do there
and picking up the boys atdaycare and getting them home, and
(03:57):
I was just like, I don't haveanything left, God, I am just done.
And I put them kind of infront of the TV just to entertain
them for a moment while Icould kind of get a moment to breathe.
And I just laid out on myfoyer floor and I. And I. And I just
started weeping. It was likesuch a moment of complete desperation.
I. I didn't know what else todo. I felt like I was giving it my
(04:18):
all and I had just come to theend of myself. And I remember laying
on that floor and it was oneof the first times I'd ever felt
God kind of speak to my heart.I heard, I hear people say, oh, God
spoke to me. And I didn't hearany audible voices or, you know,
anything like that, but. But Iknow he spoke to me because in that
moment I really just sensedhim speaking. The really inquiring
(04:41):
of me what I thought the issuewas and how did I get to this situation.
And really the specific wordsthat I. That I felt I heard was,
you have never inquired of meabout this, about the need to rest,
about the need to stop, whatthe rhythm of your should look like.
Because I spend a lot of timeasking God what should I be doing,
(05:02):
but not what is his rhythm fordoing it.
Those are very differentthings, aren't they?
They really are. Because, youknow, you can do, as you mentioned,
you know, as your initialcomment, you can do a lot of things
in your own strength. And alot of women are very gifted. They
are gifted to the point ofbeing able to accomplish much without
(05:24):
God, but in the process ofthat they burn out. And the process
of that they lose their energybecause they have limited capacity.
They have limited power. Godis all powerful in all capacity.
And so when we understand thatwe need the infinite source of all
capacity to be continuouslypouring into us so that we can continue
(05:46):
to do the work that we feellike we're called to do and to do
it with excellence and to doit with joy and peace. It has to
come from him.
You know, it's interestingbecause you used a phrase earlier
when you were talking aboutyou felt like you were giving it
your all, and I think so manyof us feel like that. And obviously
you were a hard worker, youwere accomplished, you finished an
(06:10):
education that led you tobecome a doctor, you had your own
practice, and here you havetwo kids, and it's just this thing
that sort of tips you over theedge. And I think when we get there,
a lot of women I know andmyself as well, we're driven and
we have big dreams and goals,and we know we're strong. And when
we say, oh, I've given this myall, and we crash, we sometimes just
(06:37):
say, well, I'll just give itmore of my all. Like, I'll just keep
working, keep trying, keephustling. I'll keep burning myself
out. It's almost like we tryto draw from a tank that doesn't
exist.
Oh, that's so good and sotrue. And I can definitely relate
to that because that's. That'swhat got me to that point. That's
(07:00):
what got me to the point of.Of really collapse in my. In my foyer
floor that particular day. Ithink sometimes I. I term it toxic
independence. You know, myupbringing, how I approached life,
it was one of those thingswhere my. My childhood wasn't necessarily
easy. My mother died inchildbirth. I was raised by a great
(07:20):
grandmother who was 77 whenshe got one of those things where
I always felt like, you know,what, if I want things to happen
in my life, I have to takeownership, and I have to make sure
I do everything that I can doto make things, you know, come out
the way that I want them tocome out. And so for me, rest was
something, was not somethingthat you actually put any value in.
(07:41):
Rest was like what lazy peopledid when they didn't know how to
keep up with the rest of us.Pe us Marthas who were getting stuff
done, you know, it's like, I'mnot a Mary, I'm a Martha. I do.
Right, Right.
So that was my mindset. So,you know, this. This conversation
on rest with God, he couldhave probably have told me anything
(08:03):
else, and I would have beenlike, yes, God, let's do it. He said
the one thing I did not wantto hear.
So you're laying on the foyerfloor, you're crying, you're completely
just at capacity or over. Whathappens after that, he speaks to
(08:23):
you, and then what?
Well, right after that moment,I was a little bit shocked because
God, like I said, I was, and Ihate to say this because now after,
at the time, my husband and Iwere leading Bible study in our home,
and we were, you know, highlyinvolved in our church, and I knew
a lot about God. I, I, I'm astudent, so, so I studied the Bible,
(08:48):
so I knew a lot about God, butI didn't know God, and I certainly
didn't have any kind ofintimacy or relationship. And so
that moment was a little bitlike, who are you? You know, like,
what, what was that? What justhappened? Well, you actually talk,
right. Like, you, you stilltalk to your people. This isn't like,
just something that happened,you know, billions of years ago kind
(09:10):
of thing. And so it was a bitunnerving, to be honest with you,
because it, it pulled apart myreligiosity and what I had gotten
used to. So initially afterthat, it started with just reading
the Bible in a different way.I'm like, wait a minute. You actually,
you're actually still talkingto people? Like, you're able to speak
(09:31):
to me internally in a way thatI comprehend. It's not me. And so
I started reading the Bibleand actually evaluating some of that
because it opened up a part ofmy awareness of who God is now. So
that's where it began. Andthen after that aspect of it, one
(09:51):
of the scriptures that reallystood out to me because I was reading
the Bible with a focus onrest, because that was the word that
was, like, bouncing off everywall in my brain. And so one of the
scriptures that stood out wasfrom Isaiah 30:15, and it stated,
in returning and rest shallyou be saved. In quietness and trust
shall be your strength. Andthat sounded great, but the next
(10:13):
sent is, is what floored me.It said, but you would have none
of it. And I stared at thispiece of Scripture, and I was like,
you're talking about me,aren't you? Like, like, like, I sure,
other people are reading thisbook, but you're talking about me
right now. You have given mean opportunity, an invitation, a
(10:36):
gift, and I am literallyshoving it back in your face. And
that started me approachingrest in a very different way.
Hmm. So did you have. BecauseI want to get to the different way
that you approach rest, butdid you have a moment where you've
(10:56):
hit capacity? But it's notlike when God speaks to you. All
of a sudden yourresponsibilities disappear and your
practice doesn't need you.Your kids don't need you. Did you
have a moment where youstarted panicking and you. Does that
mean, Lord, are you asking meto quit my job, quit this, stop doing
(11:18):
this? I mean, did you have apanic moment of. What are you. What
are you going to ask of me?
Oh, absolutely. I. I couldprobably say I've had panic moments
like that multiple times inmultiple areas of obedience when
God asks something of you.Because usually the ask is something
of you releasing, which neverfeels right in the moment, usually.
(11:40):
So. So, yeah, multipleopportunities to experience that.
In this particular case,however, I didn't so much feel that.
I would say I felt that whenhe asked me to give up my medical
practice and to start my ownbusiness around this book idea that
he gave me, that's when I feltthat. But in this particular moment
(12:00):
when I was going through allof the kind of exploration of the
Bible and rest, I felt likethe struggle that I had in that moment
was God. This is hard. I. Youdidn't make me to be a person who
easily rest. You know, Imentioned Mary and Martha. I felt
like you made me a Martha. My,you know, my personality, it's one
(12:24):
that is very driven. I mean,that's. It is one that likes goals
and is oriented and, you know,has this level of organization is
what actually makes me able tofunction at a certain capacity as
a doctor. It's like you. This,these are gifts, but the gifts also
have something that has to betapered with your spirit for it to
(12:44):
have its full expression. Andthat was what I struggled with the
most is, is getting theidentity of who God says I am to
override the programming ofwhat I had personally developed myself
into.
So tell us about this momentbetween God flooring you and you
(13:09):
kind of becoming an expert insome sense, writing multiple books
and leading an organizationthat focuses on inviting people to
rest and recover. How did you.What was the season like of practicing
the rest before you became ateacher of it?
(13:29):
Yeah, there was over 10 yearsof that. 10 years of the practicing.
The practicing was a slowprocess because it was so. There
were so many layers to it. Youknow, within my book, Sacred Rest,
I talk about seven differenttypes of rest. Well, these didn't
just kind of flush out, youknow, immediately. It was kind of
a progression of learningabout rest and seeing new things
(13:51):
and the. In the word of Godand getting new revelations about
what that looks like and evenhow Jesus applied rest in these different
areas. And then, you know,it's one thing to have knowledge,
but it's another thing to haveUnderstanding and how to actually
apply it within your own life.I mean, it was like going up these
levels. Would start tounderstand something, particularly
(14:11):
sometimes understanding it inthe scripture and then seeing how
it related to the science.Because from. For me, they're so
intertwined with each otherthat it's hard for me to read one
without immediately my brainpulling in research from the other.
And so just seeing how theyoverlapped and then trying to determine
(14:34):
now, okay, God, I see thesedifferent pieces that are in essence
colliding with each other. Howdo I now actually put that into practice?
Like. Like realistically in mylife? So it was a long process, about
10 years. You know, I. My kidsat the time this began were two at
the old. The oldest one wastwo. The youngest was an infant,
(14:56):
and so. And now one's 20. Thebook's been out for roughly seven
years. So all of that time inbetween there, roughly 10 years was
all of the, the training.
So when I'm thinking aboutpeople listening and they're so tired
and weary. What are someindicators of burnout? Like, speak
(15:20):
to how we would know if we'reabout to be floored like you were.
Yeah, that sort of. The WorldHealth Organization actually has
a definition for burnout, soI'll start there. And they begin
with basically having threecomponents. The first is that you're
tired all the time. The secondis that you no longer enjoy the work
that you do. So you may beshowing up at work or parenting or
(15:43):
whatever it is that you do ona regular basis, and you don't even
enjoy it anymore. You've lostthe, the passion for it. And then
the third is that the workthat you produce, whatever it is
you're producing, is at alesser capacity of what you're actually
capable of producing. So it's,it's. So the lack of energy is actually
dampening your effectiveness,your impact. And so the types of
(16:04):
rest I talk about, thephysical, mental, spiritual, emotional,
social, sensory, creative, allhave different characteristics that
you can see when you have arest deficit in those areas. And
so they. Those are a littlebit different because each one has
its own specifics. But ingeneral, that's what the. Well, the
World Health Organization isdescribing. This. This phenomenon
(16:26):
they've now called burnout.
I love you defining those forus because I think it's easy for
us to sort of take a personalinventory. When you just listed off
multiple things. Were thosethe seven types of rest that you
speak of in your book? Can youtalk to us more about those? I'd
(16:47):
love to Hear more?
Yeah, so. So I'll go througheach one and just kind of give a
brief description, so tospeak. So physical rest includes
two types. There's passiveform of physical rest, which is the
sleeping and napping we're allfamiliar with. And then there's an
active form of physical rest,which are everything that you do
to improve your blood flow,your circulations, your lymphatic
(17:09):
strainage. So is everythingfrom, you know, taking a prayer walk
where you're not trying tolike click off Fitbit steps, but
just trying to get your bloodflowing to stretching to a massage,
to those types of things. Thenthere's a mental rest, which evaluates
how well you're able toconcentrate and focus and to clear
(17:29):
your mind. And so if you'resomeone who tries to go to sleep
at night and your mind'sracing and you're thinking all the
thoughts and you can't getyour head to. To quiet down, then
that's a mental rest deficit.That's a symptom of that. Or if you
have a hard timeconcentrating, it seems like you
can't focus your attention.It's always floating off to something.
Spiritual rest looks at notwhat the disciplines of learning
(17:52):
about God, the Bible readingand the scriptures and all of that
devotion time, all of that'sfantastic. Is really more about building
a relationship with God, isfocusing more on that level of intimacy
where it. You're reading thescripture, but you're reading it
from a standpoint ofrelationship, not ritual. Then there's
emotional rest, which looks athow well you feel you, or how free,
(18:17):
I should say you feel toexpress your emotions. Or, or if
you are on the other side ofemotional rest, you have emotional
unrest. You are holding on toemotions and so you are keep. People
pleasers tend to haveemotional rest deficits. Those who
have a lot of professionalemotional labor attached to their
job. So those who are innursing or counseling or, you know,
(18:40):
teacher or something, anyprofession where the term compassion
fatigue pops up, those areforms of an emotional rest deficit.
And so having opportunities tobe able to express those emotions
freely with places where thatfeels safe is a form of emotional
rest. And then you have socialrest, which looks at the relationships
(19:01):
in your life. Most of therelationships are in our life are
negatively pulling from oursocial energy, causing social rest
deficits. And then we have todetermine who are the people in our
lives that are actuallypouring back into us socially. They
are, they don't need anythingfrom us. They are the, the, you know,
the friends and the people,the people who aren't putting demands
(19:21):
on us socially because realityis the people who are putting demands
on us. The kids need places togo, the spouse needs things, your
elderly parents need help attheir doctor's appointments, all
your colleagues, your coworkers, all these people need things
from you. Who doesn't? Andunfortunately, most of us have fewer
adult friends now than ever.Career and family has kind of taken
(19:42):
precedence over friendshipsand community. And so it pulls from
our social resting, pull thepeople we can actually, that are
life giving, that are actuallypouring back into that, that area
of our, of our well. And thenthe final two are creative and sensory
rest. Sensory rest deals withevaluating the sensory implants around
you, being aware that thelights, the sounds, the smells, all
(20:06):
of these sensory tactilethings that are approaching at you,
that even when you try toignore them, or some people will
say, well, you know, itdoesn't bother me, I just ignore
it. Your brain has to filterthat information for you to even
be able to ignore it. And sosensory overload syndrome is very
common in our, in our culture.From our cell phone notifications
(20:29):
to, you know, the electronicsthat we're using, all of those things
have an effect on sensoryinput. And so sensory rest is being
aware of the need to downgradesome of those sensory inputs, turning
off the notifications,limiting sensitive time that you're
online, or even that you'reusing electronics as you approach
(20:49):
bedtime, dimming the lightsbefore going to bed in the evening
so that your circadian systemwill begin to re regulate and understand,
hey, we're about to wind down,let's start now those types of things
with sensory rest. And thenthe last is creative rest, which
evaluates our ability toappreciate beauty. Creative rest
(21:10):
can be either man made beauty,like art and music and theater and
all of those things, or itcould be creative beauty like the
trees and flowers and themountains and the ocean. But recognizing
that we use a lot of creativeenergy and problem solving. So if
you are someone who's havingto think outside of the box, solve
problems, you know, this iseverybody from a teacher having to
(21:34):
solve a problem betweenstudents in a classroom to a parent
trying to solve the problem ofgetting schedules to mesh together
with their family, all of theproblem solving we do drains our
creative energy because ittakes that to be able to solve the
problem. And so recognizingthat the appreciation of beauty,
the awe and wonder thatcreativity and beauty kind of inspires
(21:55):
inside of us, actually fillsback up that innovation well, so
that we stay at a high levelof creativity.
Wow, I just took notes on allof these because I, I think they're
so, I mean, they're kind ofopening my eyes up to so many different
(22:16):
ways that I can rest and alsoevaluate. Am I resting in these ways?
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night.
(23:02):
Wow. I just took notes on allof these because I, I think they're
so, I mean, they're kind ofopening my, my eyes up to so many
different ways that I can restand also evaluate. Am I resting in
these ways? What happens ifsomeone is doing it really well in
(23:24):
one way and not in six?
Yeah, that's the problem.That's exactly the problem. You know,
a lot of people right now aresaying, I'm so tired. And I get it.
You know, we, we poll the USin general, on average, 60 to 70%
of people right now evendefine themselves as being burned
out. You know, they havemultiple characteristics of the World
(23:47):
Health Organization'sdefinition. And so the problem is
when we say I'm tired, itdoesn't actually give you adequate
information to solve theproblem. It would be like someone
coming to me at my doctor'soffice and saying, hey doc, I have
a pain. Okay, is it a chestpain or a foot pain? I mean, where
the pain that dictates what Ido. However, when we say I'm tired
(24:08):
and we're not actuallyidentifying what kind of tired we
are, how are you supposed tofix that? Is it social fatigue? Is
it emotional? Is it physical?Is it creative? Once you identify
what's fatigue, you thenactually have a better chance of
improving it. That's what thereason why we have an assessment@restquiz.com
(24:30):
that we recommend a lot ofpeople do to determine which of the
seven types of rest they'remost efficient in so that they can
actually focus their attentionon the one or two that they're most
deficient in. Because thatfatigue, what you feel won't tell
you exactly where it's from.You have to do the extra bit of discernment
(24:50):
to think about. How did Iexpend energy and did I do something
to actually pour energy backinto that area?
Yeah, I love that. Did you say restquiz.com?
That'S correct.
There are going to be somepeople who love quizzes. They are
on that. I was wanting to askyou, what are some of the ways that
(25:11):
we think we're resting, butwe're not resting at all?
Yeah, one of the. There's atwo big ones that I see over and
over again. One is vacations.Everyone's like, oh, I'm gonna go
on vacation and get some rest.And they come back, you know, a week
later or whatever, and it'slike, hey, do you feel more. No,
I'm more exhausted than ever.Why is that? Because the vacations
(25:33):
are not a burnout preventionstrategy. Most of us, when we go
on vacations, we basicallyjust go do fun stuff away from home.
And so we are expendingenergy. And the energy we're expending
isn't necessarily the energyto pour back into the place of deficit.
It's just expending moreenergy that we don't have. And we're
(25:55):
staying up late. We're doingthings that are, you know, burning
even more energy. And so Ithink if we're going to use a vacation
as a restorative process, wehave to realize that you're only
going to be getting restoredon that every, what, three or four
times a year when you take thevacation. That can't be how you solve
burnout. Really. We have toincorporate these restorative practices,
(26:17):
these restful practicesthroughout our days, our week and
our months. That's really theconcept of Sabbath, is to make sure
that there's restorativepractices embedded within our week.
That's. It wasn't asuggestion. It was actually a command
to make sure that that wasembedded into our lives. And so the
(26:38):
second one specifically is, asit relates to these misconceptions,
is this thought process of,well, it's the weekend, so I'm just
going to lounge around on mysofa and watch TV and click through,
you know, entire series in aweekend and veg out here, and that's
(26:59):
wrapped rest.
Sandra, how do you know us?
I've been you. That's how Iknow, you know, and the thing is,
that could be fun for aseason. But is it restful? Is it
that you actually feelrestored? Whenever I did that, I
would wake up feeling moredrained than ever. And really what
(27:19):
that does is it just becomesescapism. It's like, I'm so exhausted,
I just want to escape for aminute in somebody else's life. You
know, let me watch somebodyelse's drama for a second and just
escape into that. Or reading,you know, I'm a book nerd. So reading
a book can sometimes be thatescapism. Now the reality is you
(27:39):
can use tv, movies, books aspart of creative rest, but when you
do that, it's not just toescape from your life, is actually
to be inspired by what you're consuming.
So interesting. There's somany things I want to ask you. I
definitely, you've touched onit and I definitely want to make
(28:01):
space for it. You mentionedJesus and rest. You mentioned the
Sabbath. When you look at thelife of Jesus, when we talk a lot
around here about collidingwith Jesus, when you collide with
him, how do you see himinviting us into rest and what does
it end up actually lookinglike on a real practical like way.
(28:24):
Yeah, when I look at the lifeof Jesus actually, you know, in Sacred
Rest, I wrote the book up intotwo sections. The second half of
the book is fully about thespirituality aspect of it. The first
half goes over a lot of whatwe just discussed, the seven types
of rest, the science, puttingit into like physical practice. But
when I started kind of divinginto the life of Jesus, one of the
(28:47):
things that I loved is that,that I guess my collision point,
so to speak with him is seeinghow he embedded it in his ministry.
Like it wasn't this extrathing he, he did on the side. You
see throughout, like if youjust took one of the gospels, if
you just took Matthew and justwent through it throughout that entire
(29:09):
Gospel, it is embeddedthroughout it. You see times when
he, when he is pulling awayand sleeping, you know, storm going
on, I'm getting some sleep,he's doing the physical rest. We
see times where he, it says,withdraws to desolate places, which
is basically a sensoryreprieve. You're going to places
where there's not a lot ofvisual input or other things and
(29:29):
noise and stuff going on.You're silencing what's around you.
We see times when, one of myfavorite times as it relates to emotional
and spiritual and social restincludes those times where you see
him segment out his circle. Hehas the masses, where he's ministering
to everybody. He has the innercircle, the 12, then he has the close
(29:52):
knit circle, that little threeand four who are with them on the
Mount of Transfiguration orwith him in the garden. And so we,
we see how he's segmented out.And I love that like even in the
those two examples on theMount of Transfiguration, this is
When God reveals who he is tothese. This small, small group of
people, that is the highestlevel of emotional rest. When you.
(30:16):
When the people close to youknow you better than everybody else,
things about you are revealedin their fullness. And the same in
the garden. This is wherehe's. He's. He's pouring out an emotion
which is basically pain.Crying, you know, crying drops of
blood. I mean, great, greatanguish, as the word says. We see
(30:37):
him pouring out in this way,and he in no way feels ashamed. You
never see it says anythingabout, like, he was ashamed he was
doing this. He stood in hisauthenticity, his emotions, because
those three were. Were hisemotional and social rest circle.
He deemed them safe to do that with.
(31:00):
When you think about peoplewho are listening to this and they
want what you're inviting theminto, but the idea of getting rest
sounds like work. Like they'llhave to cancel things or shift things
or let people down. Sometimesfor people who have been running
(31:24):
so hard and they're so tired,the invitation to rest does feel
like that. It almost feelslike more work to try to figure out
how to create rest. What'syour advice for them?
Yeah, I think the thing withrest is there. There is a level of
accountability that'sinvolved. And so whenever I hear
(31:44):
someone say, well, it's almostas if they're asking for permission
to rest. Permission's alreadybeen granted. It was granted from
the very foundation of theearth. So it was. It was granted
from the very start. And Ifeel like what's happened is we've
actually not pulled away frompermission simply because we've gotten
into a culture that teaches usthat work has more value than rest.
(32:10):
Rest. And it is that mindsetthat our work ethic is what we should
build up, rather than seeingthat work and rest have a relationship.
They collide with each other.And it. And we have to realize that
it's just as important to havea rest ethic. When I'm talking to
mamas, because I do a lot ofwomen's ministry. So when I'm talking
(32:31):
to mamas, I oftentimes willask them, you. You will come to me
after this event at the booktable, and you will tell me how exhausted
you are and how you don't havetime to rest and how you know it's
impossible. And I asked them,is that the life you want for your
son and daughter? You'reteaching them everything else. Why
(32:52):
would you not also teach themhow to rest? Well, how is that now?
Although it was a command fromthe very beginning, how is that now
less important than teachingthem all of these other things? Because
just to be very blunt withyou, in my profession, I can't tell
you how many times I seeteenagers who are in the ER with
(33:15):
me who have attempted tocommit suicide with things like,
I'm not perfect. I can't do itlike, like my parents want. I can't
show up in the way that theywant me to. I can't be this or that
or accomplish this or that, orkeep straight A's. And the whole
time in the back of my mind orthe. Some of the worst situations
is where the parent comesafterwards and there's nothing more
(33:38):
we can do. It's like we'rejust consoling them. And they say,
like, they had it all. Theywere head of the football team. They
were the prom king or queen.And I'm thinking to myself, and that
crown became too much to carrybecause they never had a moment to
put it down. They never had amoment where they felt that it was
safe to say, this is too much.I need to stop. I don't want to play
(34:01):
football. I don't want tocheerlead. I don't want to do this,
I don't want to do that. Ijust want to rest and enjoy my senior
year. We have to realize thatis just as important as all the other
things we're teaching them.
That is a good word and onethat is hard to hear, but one that
we all ought to consider. Idefinitely know. I mean, my kids
(34:23):
are in college now, but I feellike I taught them hard work ethic.
I taught them to run hard andto play hard, but not to rest hard.
I. I definitely think that'strue of our family. I'm curious,
and I know we could talkforever, but this is one more question
(34:44):
before we sign off today,Sandra, which is when you rewind
back to that season of timewhere the Lord floored you and spoke
to you and invited you intorest. And then now fast forward,
he's taught you so much andnow he's using you to invite other
people into rest.
Rest.
How has your rest actuallymade your work better? Because you
(35:10):
have the vantage point to nowlook back and go, there's a sort
of connection between our worklife and our rest life. Can you genuinely
say, my rest has actuallytaken my work life and elevated it
and made it better. What wouldyou say?
(35:31):
I absolutely can say thatbecause, you know, when I look at
the things that, that havebeen accomplished in my life, the,
the things that's over thepast 10 years. And I don't. When
I say accomplish that, theMartha in me wants to clarify that
because some people will say,oh, does she mean like the number
of books she's written or thenumber of places she's talked to
(35:53):
or. Or whatever, you know,these quantums, numbers that we put
together. I mean accomplish asin staying in alignment with God's
plans and purposes for me. Sothat's what I mean by accomplished.
When I think about that, Irealize that most of the things that
I have that I haveaccomplished in that sense would
have never occurred because Iwould not have been still enough
(36:14):
to hear him. I would not havebeen still enough to know him, to
behold him moving in certainways, to see the places where I not
just can fit in, but theplaces where I fit, like where he
has uniquely gifted and talentme to slide right in there without
resistance and withoutpressure. And I think that is what
I'm witnessing when peopletruly understand the power of resting
(36:39):
in a biblical sense, but alsoin a practical, scientific sense
as well.
Well, you have given us somuch to think about. You're inspiring
me. I. Tonight when I go home,I might just say, hey, husband, let's
go walk in the forest insteadof watching a show. I love it. I
love that. There's so manythings I'm thinking about that I
(37:01):
think we get into kind ofthese habits or patterns of ways
that we define rest that mightnot be restful. So you've given us
a lot to chew on. I know thatso many of us are going to want to
grab your books and follow youon social and all the things. How
do we do that?
Yes, well, the book we'rereferring to is sacred. Rest, recover
(37:22):
your life, renew your energy,restore your sanity, and you can
learn more about it. And takethe free assessment@restquiz.com
and then my main website is Ichoose my best life.com and there's.
I have a podcast by the samename as well.
Oh, thank you so much forbeing with us today, Dr. Sandra.
It's been my pleasure. Thanksso much for having me, friend.
(37:45):
I hope that you were inspiredto rest. I know I was. Yes, I made
a joke there with Dr. Sandraat the end. But truly I feel inspired
to rest in ways that I haven'tbefore. And I hope you do as well.
If you need a resource thatwill help you to spend time with
(38:05):
Jesus, to be with God, to golooking for God, make sure to check
out our Bible study, six Waysto Go Looking for God, it's on our
store at wecollide.net andthat would be a really great place
to start for just somepurposeful, intentional guidance
(38:27):
in your time with the Lord.Friend, if you are tired, I want
to remind you that we have aGod who says, come to me, all you
who are weary, and I will giveyou rest. Keep colliding and we'll
catch you next week.
Hey there. Welcome to theCollide Podcast. This is Willow Weston,
the founder and director ofCollide and I am so glad you hopped
on today. If you are asubscriber, I love that we get to
hang out with each other everysingle week. And here hear from people
who are experiencing theliving God showing up and doing amazing
(00:39):
things in their life andthrough their life. And today's no
different. I got to sit downwith Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith, who
is an internal medicinephysician, a researcher, a speaker.
She is an author of severalbooks, and today we got to talk about
her book, Sacred Rest. And Idon't know about you, but if you're
(01:02):
like me and. And you sort ofroll your eyes and you don't want
to talk about rest becauseyour to do list is too long and your
responsibilities are tooheavy, and you don't want someone
telling you to stop and donothing, that's often how I feel
about rest. But I promise you,this conversation was so much different
(01:22):
than that. In fact, I justheard things from Dr. Sandra about
rest that I have never heardbefore, so. So take a listen. Well,
Dr. Sandra Dalton Smith, it'sso good to have you on the podcast
today. Welcome in from Alabama.
(01:45):
Thanks, Willow. Excited to bewith you.
Yeah, I obviously did a littleresearch on you. You're a physician,
a speaker, an author, aresearcher. You've been featured
on many major networks. Youare a featured te talk speaker. You've
given keynote talks at avariety of corporate and nonprofit
(02:07):
events. I mean, there's justthis long resume of so many things
you've done. And I looked atthis, and I thought, wow, this woman
has worked really hard to getinto the work of inviting people
to recover and rest from overworking.
You know what? I. I couldunderstand why you think that, and
I do feel like I have workedreally hard. But one thing that's
(02:30):
really interesting with thatentire journey is after wr writing
my book on rest, I had aseason where God actually kind of
pulled me away from themarketing and the research and basically
gave me kind of an invitationto watch him do it. So some of the.
The bigger names that you seethere, I didn't lift a finger. I
(02:51):
basically stood in awe of Godorchestrating it all. So it's been
really an interesting journey.
Well, I figured there must bea story behind your passion to invite
people to rest, to invitepeople to recover from burnout. There
must be something that you'veexperienced, you've seen or witnessed
(03:14):
firsthand that's given youpassion about this topic. Can you
tell us More about that?
Yeah, there definitely is. Iburned out in my burnout journey
started pretty soon after Istarted my practice as an internal
medicine physician. I was inpractice for about five years. It
was around that time that myhusband and I were blessed with children.
(03:34):
Both of our sons came kind ofback to back. They were 21 months
apart. And I thought I had itall together, ready to be a mommy
and do all the things. Butthat was kind of the last straw on
my capacity. And I justremember one day coming home from
the office after, you know,doing everything I had to do there
and picking up the boys atdaycare and getting them home, and
(03:57):
I was just like, I don't haveanything left, God, I am just done.
And I put them kind of infront of the TV just to entertain
them for a moment while Icould kind of get a moment to breathe.
And I just laid out on myfoyer floor and I. And I. And I just
started weeping. It was likesuch a moment of complete desperation.
I. I didn't know what else todo. I felt like I was giving it my
(04:18):
all and I had just come to theend of myself. And I remember laying
on that floor and it was oneof the first times I'd ever felt
God kind of speak to my heart.I heard, I hear people say, oh, God
spoke to me. And I didn't hearany audible voices or, you know,
anything like that, but. But Iknow he spoke to me because in that
moment I really just sensedhim speaking. The really inquiring
(04:41):
of me what I thought the issuewas and how did I get to this situation.
And really the specific wordsthat I. That I felt I heard was,
you have never inquired of meabout this, about the need to rest,
about the need to stop, whatthe rhythm of your should look like.
Because I spend a lot of timeasking God what should I be doing,
(05:02):
but not what is his rhythm fordoing it.
Those are very differentthings, aren't they?
They really are. Because, youknow, you can do, as you mentioned,
you know, as your initialcomment, you can do a lot of things
in your own strength. And alot of women are very gifted. They
are gifted to the point ofbeing able to accomplish much without
(05:24):
God, but in the process ofthat they burn out. And the process
of that they lose their energybecause they have limited capacity.
They have limited power. Godis all powerful in all capacity.
And so when we understand thatwe need the infinite source of all
capacity to be continuouslypouring into us so that we can continue
(05:46):
to do the work that we feellike we're called to do and to do
it with excellence and to doit with joy and peace. It has to
come from him.
You know, it's interestingbecause you used a phrase earlier
when you were talking aboutyou felt like you were giving it
your all, and I think so manyof us feel like that. And obviously
you were a hard worker, youwere accomplished, you finished an
(06:10):
education that led you tobecome a doctor, you had your own
practice, and here you havetwo kids, and it's just this thing
that sort of tips you over theedge. And I think when we get there,
a lot of women I know andmyself as well, we're driven and
we have big dreams and goals,and we know we're strong. And when
we say, oh, I've given this myall, and we crash, we sometimes just
(06:37):
say, well, I'll just give itmore of my all. Like, I'll just keep
working, keep trying, keephustling. I'll keep burning myself
out. It's almost like we tryto draw from a tank that doesn't
exist.
Oh, that's so good and sotrue. And I can definitely relate
to that because that's. That'swhat got me to that point. That's
(07:00):
what got me to the point of.Of really collapse in my. In my foyer
floor that particular day. Ithink sometimes I. I term it toxic
independence. You know, myupbringing, how I approached life,
it was one of those thingswhere my. My childhood wasn't necessarily
easy. My mother died inchildbirth. I was raised by a great
(07:20):
grandmother who was 77 whenshe got one of those things where
I always felt like, you know,what, if I want things to happen
in my life, I have to takeownership, and I have to make sure
I do everything that I can doto make things, you know, come out
the way that I want them tocome out. And so for me, rest was
something, was not somethingthat you actually put any value in.
(07:41):
Rest was like what lazy peopledid when they didn't know how to
keep up with the rest of us.Pe us Marthas who were getting stuff
done, you know, it's like, I'mnot a Mary, I'm a Martha. I do.
Right, Right.
So that was my mindset. So,you know, this. This conversation
on rest with God, he couldhave probably have told me anything
(08:03):
else, and I would have beenlike, yes, God, let's do it. He said
the one thing I did not wantto hear.
So you're laying on the foyerfloor, you're crying, you're completely
just at capacity or over. Whathappens after that, he speaks to
(08:23):
you, and then what?
Well, right after that moment,I was a little bit shocked because
God, like I said, I was, and Ihate to say this because now after,
at the time, my husband and Iwere leading Bible study in our home,
and we were, you know, highlyinvolved in our church, and I knew
a lot about God. I, I, I'm astudent, so, so I studied the Bible,
(08:48):
so I knew a lot about God, butI didn't know God, and I certainly
didn't have any kind ofintimacy or relationship. And so
that moment was a little bitlike, who are you? You know, like,
what, what was that? What justhappened? Well, you actually talk,
right. Like, you, you stilltalk to your people. This isn't like,
just something that happened,you know, billions of years ago kind
(09:10):
of thing. And so it was a bitunnerving, to be honest with you,
because it, it pulled apart myreligiosity and what I had gotten
used to. So initially afterthat, it started with just reading
the Bible in a different way.I'm like, wait a minute. You actually,
you're actually still talkingto people? Like, you're able to speak
(09:31):
to me internally in a way thatI comprehend. It's not me. And so
I started reading the Bibleand actually evaluating some of that
because it opened up a part ofmy awareness of who God is now. So
that's where it began. Andthen after that aspect of it, one
(09:51):
of the scriptures that reallystood out to me because I was reading
the Bible with a focus onrest, because that was the word that
was, like, bouncing off everywall in my brain. And so one of the
scriptures that stood out wasfrom Isaiah 30:15, and it stated,
in returning and rest shallyou be saved. In quietness and trust
shall be your strength. Andthat sounded great, but the next
(10:13):
sent is, is what floored me.It said, but you would have none
of it. And I stared at thispiece of Scripture, and I was like,
you're talking about me,aren't you? Like, like, like, I sure,
other people are reading thisbook, but you're talking about me
right now. You have given mean opportunity, an invitation, a
(10:36):
gift, and I am literallyshoving it back in your face. And
that started me approachingrest in a very different way.
Hmm. So did you have. BecauseI want to get to the different way
that you approach rest, butdid you have a moment where you've
(10:56):
hit capacity? But it's notlike when God speaks to you. All
of a sudden yourresponsibilities disappear and your
practice doesn't need you.Your kids don't need you. Did you
have a moment where youstarted panicking and you. Does that
mean, Lord, are you asking meto quit my job, quit this, stop doing
(11:18):
this? I mean, did you have apanic moment of. What are you. What
are you going to ask of me?
Oh, absolutely. I. I couldprobably say I've had panic moments
like that multiple times inmultiple areas of obedience when
God asks something of you.Because usually the ask is something
of you releasing, which neverfeels right in the moment, usually.
(11:40):
So. So, yeah, multipleopportunities to experience that.
In this particular case,however, I didn't so much feel that.
I would say I felt that whenhe asked me to give up my medical
practice and to start my ownbusiness around this book idea that
he gave me, that's when I feltthat. But in this particular moment
(12:00):
when I was going through allof the kind of exploration of the
Bible and rest, I felt likethe struggle that I had in that moment
was God. This is hard. I. Youdidn't make me to be a person who
easily rest. You know, Imentioned Mary and Martha. I felt
like you made me a Martha. My,you know, my personality, it's one
(12:24):
that is very driven. I mean,that's. It is one that likes goals
and is oriented and, you know,has this level of organization is
what actually makes me able tofunction at a certain capacity as
a doctor. It's like you. This,these are gifts, but the gifts also
have something that has to betapered with your spirit for it to
(12:44):
have its full expression. Andthat was what I struggled with the
most is, is getting theidentity of who God says I am to
override the programming ofwhat I had personally developed myself
into.
So tell us about this momentbetween God flooring you and you
(13:09):
kind of becoming an expert insome sense, writing multiple books
and leading an organizationthat focuses on inviting people to
rest and recover. How did you.What was the season like of practicing
the rest before you became ateacher of it?
(13:29):
Yeah, there was over 10 yearsof that. 10 years of the practicing.
The practicing was a slowprocess because it was so. There
were so many layers to it. Youknow, within my book, Sacred Rest,
I talk about seven differenttypes of rest. Well, these didn't
just kind of flush out, youknow, immediately. It was kind of
a progression of learningabout rest and seeing new things
(13:51):
and the. In the word of Godand getting new revelations about
what that looks like and evenhow Jesus applied rest in these different
areas. And then, you know,it's one thing to have knowledge,
but it's another thing to haveUnderstanding and how to actually
apply it within your own life.I mean, it was like going up these
levels. Would start tounderstand something, particularly
(14:11):
sometimes understanding it inthe scripture and then seeing how
it related to the science.Because from. For me, they're so
intertwined with each otherthat it's hard for me to read one
without immediately my brainpulling in research from the other.
And so just seeing how theyoverlapped and then trying to determine
(14:34):
now, okay, God, I see thesedifferent pieces that are in essence
colliding with each other. Howdo I now actually put that into practice?
Like. Like realistically in mylife? So it was a long process, about
10 years. You know, I. My kidsat the time this began were two at
the old. The oldest one wastwo. The youngest was an infant,
(14:56):
and so. And now one's 20. Thebook's been out for roughly seven
years. So all of that time inbetween there, roughly 10 years was
all of the, the training.
So when I'm thinking aboutpeople listening and they're so tired
and weary. What are someindicators of burnout? Like, speak
(15:20):
to how we would know if we'reabout to be floored like you were.
Yeah, that sort of. The WorldHealth Organization actually has
a definition for burnout, soI'll start there. And they begin
with basically having threecomponents. The first is that you're
tired all the time. The secondis that you no longer enjoy the work
that you do. So you may beshowing up at work or parenting or
(15:43):
whatever it is that you do ona regular basis, and you don't even
enjoy it anymore. You've lostthe, the passion for it. And then
the third is that the workthat you produce, whatever it is
you're producing, is at alesser capacity of what you're actually
capable of producing. So it's,it's. So the lack of energy is actually
dampening your effectiveness,your impact. And so the types of
(16:04):
rest I talk about, thephysical, mental, spiritual, emotional,
social, sensory, creative, allhave different characteristics that
you can see when you have arest deficit in those areas. And
so they. Those are a littlebit different because each one has
its own specifics. But ingeneral, that's what the. Well, the
World Health Organization isdescribing. This. This phenomenon
(16:26):
they've now called burnout.
I love you defining those forus because I think it's easy for
us to sort of take a personalinventory. When you just listed off
multiple things. Were thosethe seven types of rest that you
speak of in your book? Can youtalk to us more about those? I'd
(16:47):
love to Hear more?
Yeah, so. So I'll go througheach one and just kind of give a
brief description, so tospeak. So physical rest includes
two types. There's passiveform of physical rest, which is the
sleeping and napping we're allfamiliar with. And then there's an
active form of physical rest,which are everything that you do
to improve your blood flow,your circulations, your lymphatic
(17:09):
strainage. So is everythingfrom, you know, taking a prayer walk
where you're not trying tolike click off Fitbit steps, but
just trying to get your bloodflowing to stretching to a massage,
to those types of things. Thenthere's a mental rest, which evaluates
how well you're able toconcentrate and focus and to clear
(17:29):
your mind. And so if you'resomeone who tries to go to sleep
at night and your mind'sracing and you're thinking all the
thoughts and you can't getyour head to. To quiet down, then
that's a mental rest deficit.That's a symptom of that. Or if you
have a hard timeconcentrating, it seems like you
can't focus your attention.It's always floating off to something.
Spiritual rest looks at notwhat the disciplines of learning
(17:52):
about God, the Bible readingand the scriptures and all of that
devotion time, all of that'sfantastic. Is really more about building
a relationship with God, isfocusing more on that level of intimacy
where it. You're reading thescripture, but you're reading it
from a standpoint ofrelationship, not ritual. Then there's
emotional rest, which looks athow well you feel you, or how free,
(18:17):
I should say you feel toexpress your emotions. Or, or if
you are on the other side ofemotional rest, you have emotional
unrest. You are holding on toemotions and so you are keep. People
pleasers tend to haveemotional rest deficits. Those who
have a lot of professionalemotional labor attached to their
job. So those who are innursing or counseling or, you know,
(18:40):
teacher or something, anyprofession where the term compassion
fatigue pops up, those areforms of an emotional rest deficit.
And so having opportunities tobe able to express those emotions
freely with places where thatfeels safe is a form of emotional
rest. And then you have socialrest, which looks at the relationships
(19:01):
in your life. Most of therelationships are in our life are
negatively pulling from oursocial energy, causing social rest
deficits. And then we have todetermine who are the people in our
lives that are actuallypouring back into us socially. They
are, they don't need anythingfrom us. They are the, the, you know,
the friends and the people,the people who aren't putting demands
(19:21):
on us socially because realityis the people who are putting demands
on us. The kids need places togo, the spouse needs things, your
elderly parents need help attheir doctor's appointments, all
your colleagues, your coworkers, all these people need things
from you. Who doesn't? Andunfortunately, most of us have fewer
adult friends now than ever.Career and family has kind of taken
(19:42):
precedence over friendshipsand community. And so it pulls from
our social resting, pull thepeople we can actually, that are
life giving, that are actuallypouring back into that, that area
of our, of our well. And thenthe final two are creative and sensory
rest. Sensory rest deals withevaluating the sensory implants around
you, being aware that thelights, the sounds, the smells, all
(20:06):
of these sensory tactilethings that are approaching at you,
that even when you try toignore them, or some people will
say, well, you know, itdoesn't bother me, I just ignore
it. Your brain has to filterthat information for you to even
be able to ignore it. And sosensory overload syndrome is very
common in our, in our culture.From our cell phone notifications
(20:29):
to, you know, the electronicsthat we're using, all of those things
have an effect on sensoryinput. And so sensory rest is being
aware of the need to downgradesome of those sensory inputs, turning
off the notifications,limiting sensitive time that you're
online, or even that you'reusing electronics as you approach
(20:49):
bedtime, dimming the lightsbefore going to bed in the evening
so that your circadian systemwill begin to re regulate and understand,
hey, we're about to wind down,let's start now those types of things
with sensory rest. And thenthe last is creative rest, which
evaluates our ability toappreciate beauty. Creative rest
(21:10):
can be either man made beauty,like art and music and theater and
all of those things, or itcould be creative beauty like the
trees and flowers and themountains and the ocean. But recognizing
that we use a lot of creativeenergy and problem solving. So if
you are someone who's havingto think outside of the box, solve
problems, you know, this iseverybody from a teacher having to
(21:34):
solve a problem betweenstudents in a classroom to a parent
trying to solve the problem ofgetting schedules to mesh together
with their family, all of theproblem solving we do drains our
creative energy because ittakes that to be able to solve the
problem. And so recognizingthat the appreciation of beauty,
the awe and wonder thatcreativity and beauty kind of inspires
(21:55):
inside of us, actually fillsback up that innovation well, so
that we stay at a high levelof creativity.
Wow, I just took notes on allof these because I, I think they're
so, I mean, they're kind ofopening my eyes up to so many different
(22:16):
ways that I can rest and alsoevaluate. Am I resting in these ways?
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(23:02):
Wow. I just took notes on allof these because I, I think they're
so, I mean, they're kind ofopening my, my eyes up to so many
different ways that I can restand also evaluate. Am I resting in
these ways? What happens ifsomeone is doing it really well in
(23:24):
one way and not in six?
Yeah, that's the problem.That's exactly the problem. You know,
a lot of people right now aresaying, I'm so tired. And I get it.
You know, we, we poll the USin general, on average, 60 to 70%
of people right now evendefine themselves as being burned
out. You know, they havemultiple characteristics of the World
(23:47):
Health Organization'sdefinition. And so the problem is
when we say I'm tired, itdoesn't actually give you adequate
information to solve theproblem. It would be like someone
coming to me at my doctor'soffice and saying, hey doc, I have
a pain. Okay, is it a chestpain or a foot pain? I mean, where
the pain that dictates what Ido. However, when we say I'm tired
(24:08):
and we're not actuallyidentifying what kind of tired we
are, how are you supposed tofix that? Is it social fatigue? Is
it emotional? Is it physical?Is it creative? Once you identify
what's fatigue, you thenactually have a better chance of
improving it. That's what thereason why we have an assessment@restquiz.com
(24:30):
that we recommend a lot ofpeople do to determine which of the
seven types of rest they'remost efficient in so that they can
actually focus their attentionon the one or two that they're most
deficient in. Because thatfatigue, what you feel won't tell
you exactly where it's from.You have to do the extra bit of discernment
(24:50):
to think about. How did Iexpend energy and did I do something
to actually pour energy backinto that area?
Yeah, I love that. Did you say restquiz.com?
That'S correct.
There are going to be somepeople who love quizzes. They are
on that. I was wanting to askyou, what are some of the ways that
(25:11):
we think we're resting, butwe're not resting at all?
Yeah, one of the. There's atwo big ones that I see over and
over again. One is vacations.Everyone's like, oh, I'm gonna go
on vacation and get some rest.And they come back, you know, a week
later or whatever, and it'slike, hey, do you feel more. No,
I'm more exhausted than ever.Why is that? Because the vacations
(25:33):
are not a burnout preventionstrategy. Most of us, when we go
on vacations, we basicallyjust go do fun stuff away from home.
And so we are expendingenergy. And the energy we're expending
isn't necessarily the energyto pour back into the place of deficit.
It's just expending moreenergy that we don't have. And we're
(25:55):
staying up late. We're doingthings that are, you know, burning
even more energy. And so Ithink if we're going to use a vacation
as a restorative process, wehave to realize that you're only
going to be getting restoredon that every, what, three or four
times a year when you take thevacation. That can't be how you solve
burnout. Really. We have toincorporate these restorative practices,
(26:17):
these restful practicesthroughout our days, our week and
our months. That's really theconcept of Sabbath, is to make sure
that there's restorativepractices embedded within our week.
That's. It wasn't asuggestion. It was actually a command
to make sure that that wasembedded into our lives. And so the
(26:38):
second one specifically is, asit relates to these misconceptions,
is this thought process of,well, it's the weekend, so I'm just
going to lounge around on mysofa and watch TV and click through,
you know, entire series in aweekend and veg out here, and that's
(26:59):
wrapped rest.
Sandra, how do you know us?
I've been you. That's how Iknow, you know, and the thing is,
that could be fun for aseason. But is it restful? Is it
that you actually feelrestored? Whenever I did that, I
would wake up feeling moredrained than ever. And really what
(27:19):
that does is it just becomesescapism. It's like, I'm so exhausted,
I just want to escape for aminute in somebody else's life. You
know, let me watch somebodyelse's drama for a second and just
escape into that. Or reading,you know, I'm a book nerd. So reading
a book can sometimes be thatescapism. Now the reality is you
(27:39):
can use tv, movies, books aspart of creative rest, but when you
do that, it's not just toescape from your life, is actually
to be inspired by what you're consuming.
So interesting. There's somany things I want to ask you. I
definitely, you've touched onit and I definitely want to make
(28:01):
space for it. You mentionedJesus and rest. You mentioned the
Sabbath. When you look at thelife of Jesus, when we talk a lot
around here about collidingwith Jesus, when you collide with
him, how do you see himinviting us into rest and what does
it end up actually lookinglike on a real practical like way.
(28:24):
Yeah, when I look at the lifeof Jesus actually, you know, in Sacred
Rest, I wrote the book up intotwo sections. The second half of
the book is fully about thespirituality aspect of it. The first
half goes over a lot of whatwe just discussed, the seven types
of rest, the science, puttingit into like physical practice. But
when I started kind of divinginto the life of Jesus, one of the
(28:47):
things that I loved is that,that I guess my collision point,
so to speak with him is seeinghow he embedded it in his ministry.
Like it wasn't this extrathing he, he did on the side. You
see throughout, like if youjust took one of the gospels, if
you just took Matthew and justwent through it throughout that entire
(29:09):
Gospel, it is embeddedthroughout it. You see times when
he, when he is pulling awayand sleeping, you know, storm going
on, I'm getting some sleep,he's doing the physical rest. We
see times where he, it says,withdraws to desolate places, which
is basically a sensoryreprieve. You're going to places
where there's not a lot ofvisual input or other things and
(29:29):
noise and stuff going on.You're silencing what's around you.
We see times when, one of myfavorite times as it relates to emotional
and spiritual and social restincludes those times where you see
him segment out his circle. Hehas the masses, where he's ministering
to everybody. He has the innercircle, the 12, then he has the close
(29:52):
knit circle, that little threeand four who are with them on the
Mount of Transfiguration orwith him in the garden. And so we,
we see how he's segmented out.And I love that like even in the
those two examples on theMount of Transfiguration, this is
When God reveals who he is tothese. This small, small group of
people, that is the highestlevel of emotional rest. When you.
(30:16):
When the people close to youknow you better than everybody else,
things about you are revealedin their fullness. And the same in
the garden. This is wherehe's. He's. He's pouring out an emotion
which is basically pain.Crying, you know, crying drops of
blood. I mean, great, greatanguish, as the word says. We see
(30:37):
him pouring out in this way,and he in no way feels ashamed. You
never see it says anythingabout, like, he was ashamed he was
doing this. He stood in hisauthenticity, his emotions, because
those three were. Were hisemotional and social rest circle.
He deemed them safe to do that with.
(31:00):
When you think about peoplewho are listening to this and they
want what you're inviting theminto, but the idea of getting rest
sounds like work. Like they'llhave to cancel things or shift things
or let people down. Sometimesfor people who have been running
(31:24):
so hard and they're so tired,the invitation to rest does feel
like that. It almost feelslike more work to try to figure out
how to create rest. What'syour advice for them?
Yeah, I think the thing withrest is there. There is a level of
accountability that'sinvolved. And so whenever I hear
(31:44):
someone say, well, it's almostas if they're asking for permission
to rest. Permission's alreadybeen granted. It was granted from
the very foundation of theearth. So it was. It was granted
from the very start. And Ifeel like what's happened is we've
actually not pulled away frompermission simply because we've gotten
into a culture that teaches usthat work has more value than rest.
(32:10):
Rest. And it is that mindsetthat our work ethic is what we should
build up, rather than seeingthat work and rest have a relationship.
They collide with each other.And it. And we have to realize that
it's just as important to havea rest ethic. When I'm talking to
mamas, because I do a lot ofwomen's ministry. So when I'm talking
(32:31):
to mamas, I oftentimes willask them, you. You will come to me
after this event at the booktable, and you will tell me how exhausted
you are and how you don't havetime to rest and how you know it's
impossible. And I asked them,is that the life you want for your
son and daughter? You'reteaching them everything else. Why
(32:52):
would you not also teach themhow to rest? Well, how is that now?
Although it was a command fromthe very beginning, how is that now
less important than teachingthem all of these other things? Because
just to be very blunt withyou, in my profession, I can't tell
you how many times I seeteenagers who are in the ER with
(33:15):
me who have attempted tocommit suicide with things like,
I'm not perfect. I can't do itlike, like my parents want. I can't
show up in the way that theywant me to. I can't be this or that
or accomplish this or that, orkeep straight A's. And the whole
time in the back of my mind orthe. Some of the worst situations
is where the parent comesafterwards and there's nothing more
(33:38):
we can do. It's like we'rejust consoling them. And they say,
like, they had it all. Theywere head of the football team. They
were the prom king or queen.And I'm thinking to myself, and that
crown became too much to carrybecause they never had a moment to
put it down. They never had amoment where they felt that it was
safe to say, this is too much.I need to stop. I don't want to play
(34:01):
football. I don't want tocheerlead. I don't want to do this,
I don't want to do that. Ijust want to rest and enjoy my senior
year. We have to realize thatis just as important as all the other
things we're teaching them.
That is a good word and onethat is hard to hear, but one that
we all ought to consider. Idefinitely know. I mean, my kids
(34:23):
are in college now, but I feellike I taught them hard work ethic.
I taught them to run hard andto play hard, but not to rest hard.
I. I definitely think that'strue of our family. I'm curious,
and I know we could talkforever, but this is one more question
(34:44):
before we sign off today,Sandra, which is when you rewind
back to that season of timewhere the Lord floored you and spoke
to you and invited you intorest. And then now fast forward,
he's taught you so much andnow he's using you to invite other
people into rest.
Rest.
How has your rest actuallymade your work better? Because you
(35:10):
have the vantage point to nowlook back and go, there's a sort
of connection between our worklife and our rest life. Can you genuinely
say, my rest has actuallytaken my work life and elevated it
and made it better. What wouldyou say?
(35:31):
I absolutely can say thatbecause, you know, when I look at
the things that, that havebeen accomplished in my life, the,
the things that's over thepast 10 years. And I don't. When
I say accomplish that, theMartha in me wants to clarify that
because some people will say,oh, does she mean like the number
of books she's written or thenumber of places she's talked to
(35:53):
or. Or whatever, you know,these quantums, numbers that we put
together. I mean accomplish asin staying in alignment with God's
plans and purposes for me. Sothat's what I mean by accomplished.
When I think about that, Irealize that most of the things that
I have that I haveaccomplished in that sense would
have never occurred because Iwould not have been still enough
(36:14):
to hear him. I would not havebeen still enough to know him, to
behold him moving in certainways, to see the places where I not
just can fit in, but theplaces where I fit, like where he
has uniquely gifted and talentme to slide right in there without
resistance and withoutpressure. And I think that is what
I'm witnessing when peopletruly understand the power of resting
(36:39):
in a biblical sense, but alsoin a practical, scientific sense
as well.
Well, you have given us somuch to think about. You're inspiring
me. I. Tonight when I go home,I might just say, hey, husband, let's
go walk in the forest insteadof watching a show. I love it. I
love that. There's so manythings I'm thinking about that I
(37:01):
think we get into kind ofthese habits or patterns of ways
that we define rest that mightnot be restful. So you've given us
a lot to chew on. I know thatso many of us are going to want to
grab your books and follow youon social and all the things. How
do we do that?
Yes, well, the book we'rereferring to is sacred. Rest, recover
(37:22):
your life, renew your energy,restore your sanity, and you can
learn more about it. And takethe free assessment@restquiz.com
and then my main website is Ichoose my best life.com and there's.
I have a podcast by the samename as well.
Oh, thank you so much forbeing with us today, Dr. Sandra.
It's been my pleasure. Thanksso much for having me, friend.
(37:45):
I hope that you were inspiredto rest. I know I was. Yes, I made
a joke there with Dr. Sandraat the end. But truly I feel inspired
to rest in ways that I haven'tbefore. And I hope you do as well.
If you need a resource thatwill help you to spend time with
(38:05):
Jesus, to be with God, to golooking for God, make sure to check
out our Bible study, six Waysto Go Looking for God, it's on our
store at wecollide.net andthat would be a really great place
to start for just somepurposeful, intentional guidance
(38:27):
in your time with the Lord.Friend, if you are tired, I want
to remind you that we have aGod who says, come to me, all you
who are weary, and I will giveyou rest. Keep colliding and we'll
catch you next week.
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