August 12, 2025 • 40 mins
Elizabeth Schmidt, CMO at Future Commerce, unpacks the evolving landscape of digital marketing and retail. She highlights the increasing trend of "accessorizing accessories," from designer handbags adorned with plush charms to Stanley mugs sporting fatigue wraps. Elizabeth connects these trends to a broader cultural shift where consumers actively co-create brand narratives, often through digital communities.
The conversation explores the concept of "fourth spaces," defined as the convergence of online communities into in-person gatherings, offering brands unique engagement opportunities. Elizabeth discusses the evolving role of AI in commerce, particularly how AI agents are poised to revolutionize marketing by learning customer preferences and sourcing products. She emphasizes the importance of brands engaging in "earned media" to ensure their presence in the diverse data sources AI tools now scour.
Show Highlights:
-
The "Accessorizing Accessories" Trend: A deep dive into how consumers are personalizing their belongings with additional accessories, reflecting a broader cultural shift in consumption.
-
"Fourth Spaces" and Community Engagement: Understanding the growing phenomenon of online communities meeting offline and how brands can leverage these passionate gatherings for authentic interaction.
-
The Rise of AI in Commerce: Exploring the impact of AI agents on marketing and product discovery, and the need for brands to adapt their strategies to engage with these intelligent systems.
-
Co-creation of Brand Narratives: How consumers are increasingly shaping brand stories through their engagement and content creation, emphasizing the need for brands to embrace a "multiplayer" approach.
Follow and Review: We’d love for you to follow us if you haven’t yet. Click that purple '+' in the top right corner of your Apple Podcasts app. We’d love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review,” then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second, and it helps spread the word about the podcast.
To learn more about KIBO visit our site https://kibocommerce.com/ and follow us on LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kibocommerce
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Natalija PavicWelcome to The Commerce Order: Powered by KIBO, the podcast that brings you closer to the future of commerce. Each episode, we sit down with industry leaders, innovators, and KIBO experts to unpack the latest trends, tackle the toughest challenges, and reveal the strategies shaping retail, e-commerce and order management. Join us as we explore how technology, culture, and consumer behavior intersect to redefine the shopping experience. Just a quick note for the listeners, the opinions of the guests are their own and do not reflect the corporation where they work. I’m your host Natalija Pavic, Sr. Director of Product Marketing at KIBO Commerce and here is the episode.
(00:01):
Natalija PavicHello, welcome to the show. I'm so excited you're here. um And you know, before we get going, tell me who you are what you do, because we had a fantastic meeting at Shop Talk and I'm just jazzed that we were able to stay in contact and have this conversation.
Elizabeth SchmidtMe too. Thank you for having me. I'm stoked to be here. i am Elizabeth Schmidt and I'm a digital marketer. I've been in marketing for almost 20 years.
(00:26):
Elizabeth SchmidtStarted at my first startup that ended up selling to Disney, which was incredible. And we were the in-house agency of record for Disney, social media agency. So we were actually responsible for acquiring all of Disney's fan pages on Facebook away from the fans because the fans started it, which is wild, which is kind of you know reminiscent of a culture of of habit that we're seeing even today within the fan ecosystem.
Natalija PavicYeah.
(00:51):
Natalija Pavicyeah
Elizabeth SchmidtBut I've been across social media, digital marketing, email, SMS, you know I know all the mediums, all of the the modalities, and and now I'm the head of marketing at Future Commerce.
Natalija PavicThat's so exciting and Future Commerce is such an amazing publication. We'll get into that, but I have an icebreaker for you, which is what's an unpopular opinion that you have? Yeah.
(01:15):
Elizabeth SchmidtWe love unpopular opinions and good Lord, I have so many. ah So, you know, mine often end up being about social.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd i know you and I have have had this discussion before and i did I did have a previous unpopular opinion, but I want to shift it a little bit. Can we just for a moment talk about LaBubu?
(01:39):
Natalija PavicI, hey, I don't know what that is. i think
Elizabeth SchmidtOh my God, even better.
Natalija PavicYou got me. I feel like I've missed something. Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtEven better. This is amazing. So these are these tiny little characters that are like a plush doll that are basically charms because they come on a, on a plastic or they come on a hook.
Elizabeth SchmidtYou can basically attach them to your bag, to your backpack, to your accessory. And they're about to be a billion dollar business. They were made popular by a Korean ah K-pop band.
(02:11):
Natalija PavicOkay.
Elizabeth Schmidtah One of the heads of of the band posted about it. And since then, it's just been all the rage across Gen Alpha and Gen Z. And everybody is is attempting to acquire one.
Elizabeth SchmidtThey are Gen Z's Beanie Baby.
Natalija PavicOh, okay. Okay.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd it is wild to see what people are doing with these toys. And I can't stand them.
(02:31):
Natalija PavicYeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtI mean, we're seeing photos of of individuals that have designer handbags and they're adding these libuboo little plush charms to these like Birkins.
Natalija Pavicyeah Yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd so you you have basically the the financial equivalent of a car on your arm and you're attaching this like plush doll to it.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd that it's just wild to me, but it also showcases a consistent trend of I want to accessorize my accessories. and And we've seen it with the road phone case that allows you to attach a lip gloss to it.
(03:07):
Natalija PavicYeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtSo your phone case is then like your makeup bag.
Natalija Pavicyeah
Natalija Pavicyeah
Elizabeth SchmidtYou've seen it with the Stanley mugs and their collaboration with Post Malone, which is like a fatigue wrap and pockets and chains on your fricking Stanley mug to drink water and make it cooler somehow.
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth SchmidtSo accessorizing accessories and is like a deep thing that's been going on for years now. And and we're just seeing that it's just really pervasive across across generations. And I can't stand them, but but there's videos of people that are actually giving their LeBubu plush dolls manicures and adding long nails and then adding charms to those nails and then matching their own nails to their LeBubu's nails and then dressing it up in Prada
(03:41):
Natalija PavicOh. ah
Elizabeth Schmidtclothing and shoes and bags. And and so they're like one upping their labubus. It is profound.
Natalija Pavicum I just feel like, yeah, I mean, ah get accessorizing accessories. and just feel like if we can do that, can't we just give women pockets? hey Like, it feels like we're getting, like, I wouldn't have to have pockets on my Stanley if I had pockets on my clothes, you know what I mean?
(04:09):
Elizabeth SchmidtYes.
Elizabeth SchmidtYes. And not pockets that only fit half of your hand, please.
Natalija PavicRight, yeah, what's the point of that?
Elizabeth SchmidtThe full hand, even maybe up to the forearm a little would be nice.
Natalija PavicYeah, yeah, yeah, so...
Elizabeth SchmidtMan pockets. Why do they get the deep pockets?
Natalija PavicAnd why did they take them away to begin with? It's honestly, it's a conspiracy. You know what? They're going to try and tell us that they never did, that they were never there. It's like, okay, well, then that's getting into some ah conspiracy theories, which we won't, we won't get into that.
(04:38):
Natalija PavicBut, well, you know what? Thank you for bringing that trend to me. I'm going to go and check it out and, um and see, see what I think about it.
Elizabeth SchmidtHighly recommend, it's wild.
Natalija PavicBut um future commerce, tell me a little bit about what you guys do.
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah. Yeah. So Future Commerce is like a culture magazine, ah digital culture magazine, but we also have in-person experiences. It's it's a ah really incredible destination, futurecommerce.com, where you can go and learn about the future of commerce.
(05:08):
Natalija PavicMm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd Future Commerce believes that commerce is culture. Commerce drives our culture forward. it influences culture. The two are inextably inextricably intertwined. And so all of the articles, editorial, podcasts, and in-person experiences that that we create just cultivate those conversations, you know, and and it's oftentimes looking into the future through through commerce thought leadership.
(05:35):
Elizabeth SchmidtIt's interviewing commerce leaders. It's looking at what individuals that are leading these major large retail brands and e-commerce brands, what are they doing and how are they, how are they driving culture forward and how are they responding to, to culture and, and what kinds of things are they investing in for the future?
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd, and so if you are, or if you touch e-commerce in any way or retail in any way, You want to subscribe to our newsletter. you want to You want to read the thought leadership on our website. You want to just involve yourself in this world because what what our writers and our our CEO and CRO, our two co-founders, Philip And Brian, what they're doing is is really what no one else is doing. And and they're really looking at the future of of what we're going to see in the next five, 10 years.
(06:26):
Elizabeth Schmidtand And their predictions are over 90% accurate over the last three years, which has been incredible to see, you know.
Natalija PavicWow.
Elizabeth SchmidtThey predicted the continued rise and success of Costco, which we've seen. They predicted the fall of Joanne Fabrics, which we've seen. And and they they really they really are experts in the space. and And it's been helpful for me just as a digital marketer, even to better understand the commerce industry and the retail industry simply by being involved with this company. So I'm grateful to...
(06:56):
Natalija PavicIt's interesting because, um you know, you guys have a lot of deep conversations with retailers and you're in, you you're there on the ground, literally facilitating, you know, you guys host like round tables and exact dinners. And so you're really, really close to everything that's happening in the industry.
Natalija Pavicum And so you are doing predictions and I see the book behind you, Laura. ah Tell me a little bit about, and we can talk about predictions from, 2030. I don't know if that's part of lore and we can talk about lore separately.
(07:29):
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah, I mean, let's talk about it all. ah So Lore is this year's annual printed journal from Future Commerce. They come out with a new printed journal every year. And they've been doing this for the last few years.
Elizabeth SchmidtLast year was a multiplayer brand and, and this year is lore and we're already working on next year's, which is really exciting. And I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna drop the title to that just yet.
(07:50):
Natalija Pavicyeah
Elizabeth SchmidtI'll let, I'll let the team do that.
Natalija PavicAll right.
Elizabeth SchmidtBut lore is really about the myth behind brands. So if you think about brands, brands are myths, brand. The brand narrative is something that is made up. Yes, it could be based on a true story of whomever founded the brand.
Natalija PavicMm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtBut but if you think about the lore behind a brand, someone decided what that narrative is, you know, and the leaders continue to and the employees continue to perpetuate that narrative.
(08:17):
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd so as a consumer and as a fan, we are attaching ourselves to myth when we become a fan of a brand. And so it really explores what that is, what that means, how people are connected to that.
Natalija PavicYeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth Schmidtand And how that in and of itself is is driving culture forward. There's a phenomenal interview with Justin Breeden, who's the head of marketing innovation at Walmart.
Natalija Pavicyeah
(08:40):
Elizabeth Schmidtthere's There's a wonderful section on memes in general and what that means. There's a wonderful section about the the brand Come and Go, which is hilarious.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd it's 280 page book filled with essays poetry like journal entries, ah unique ways to engage with these different brands.
(09:05):
Natalija PavicYeah. Yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd and there's some some Easter eggs and some um kind of hidden meanings.
Natalija Pavicyeah
Elizabeth SchmidtSo if you're in marketing and branding and and or if you're a creative director or if you are involved in just the creative arts in any way, this is a book that you need.
Natalija PavicSo, and let's talk a little bit about that because myths are so, so important. um They're important in being able to do communicate with people more than like, more than 200 individuals. like if you if you Like you can have a small circle of up to 200 individuals that you can possibly know on a first name basis and you can communicate with them individually, but anything beyond that, ah myths are really necessary to you know carry your message forward.
(09:49):
Elizabeth SchmidtMm-hmm.
Natalija PavicHow do you think storytelling is changing? Because, You know, we're seeing the sort of drop in importance of the website and we're seeing the increase in importance of other mediums like social and we have marketplaces and we have all these other places where people can discover your brand, but these are not necessarily...
(10:11):
Natalija Pavicmediums that the core brand owns. And so storytelling has always, from my opinion, um it's been sort of fragmented from the perspective of like, how do we get that message across? And you know people will say, well, let's buy ads, let's do pop-up, let's you know ah have an experience.
Natalija PavicAnd so there was all these different tactics, but as we continue to fragment, um what are some of the ways that brands can continue to tell their stories in the future?
(10:39):
Elizabeth SchmidtI love this question. So one of the the terms that I mentioned earlier was multiplayer.
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd that's, that's something that really aligns itself with this concept. So brands creating their, their own narratives today. If you're not paying attention to what, how your customers are co-creating with you, then you're completely missing out because they're the ones that are actually continuing that brand narrative.
(11:03):
Elizabeth SchmidtThey're the ones driving word of mouth. They're the ones that are creating content to present your brand to their networks and so on and so forth. So they're, they're co-creating.
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth Schmidtyour brand with you, hence the multiplayer brand concept. And if you're not creating an environment that encourages that, then you're missing out on a key aspect of connecting with consumers and fans.
(11:29):
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd and you know even just how you're leveraging that content and how you're integrating that co-created content into your brand narrative is also incredibly important.
Elizabeth SchmidtOftentimes we see fans that are that have better product innovation ideas than the brands themselves.
Natalija PavicMm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd so, you know, you need to sit in those comments. You need to really invest in community management across all of these touch points and platforms, whether they're social or or ah things like Discord or or, you know, even Twitch and now Substack, you know, really paying attention to the commentary that your audience is is creating to better understand how they feel about your brand what they think about your brand, how they're engaging with your brand and how they're evolving your brand with or without you.
(12:19):
Natalija PavicYeah, it's it's interesting because you know it means that you're you don't necessarily control the story completely and you shouldn't, right?
Elizabeth SchmidtExactly. Exactly.
Natalija PavicRight, and you've already mentioned two examples. You mentioned the Disney example where where the fans were creating the pages, and you mentioned the Boo Boo example where the fans are um giving them long nails and accessorizing them.
(12:39):
Natalija PavicAnd so they're already changing what that brand is and what that means and who they are, right? um And it's interesting because, you know, if i I may be a brand and I may want my brand to be XYZ, and then I may be shocked or surprised by actually who's wearing them.
Natalija PavicAnd I can think of a distinct example. oh it was like a long time ago. i won't mention the retailer, but i was talking to a Canadian brand and I was um considered, we were talking about their target audience and they were like really focusing on people in their 20s and me being in my 30s. I was like, um so, you know, you also have another target audience, which is, which is the,
(13:15):
Natalija Pavicah You know, a little bit older woman who um wants to feel like wants the high waisted jeans that that's what they had at the time who wants to like almost like relive the eighty s even as Gen Z and Gen Alpha are also reliving the 80s with her.
Elizabeth SchmidtMm-hmm.
Natalija Pavicum And they were like, yeah, we know a lot of those people shop at our stores, but they at the time they hadn't really thought about it. They hadn't thought about targeting them. um And they were almost like, well, that's not, you know, our brand is supposed to be young and sexy. And now you have this like new demographic that's coming in and,
(13:47):
Natalija Pavicum They stand for different things. They're more practical, right? um And it's interesting how ah brands can sort of evolve but also um thrive if they absorb and accept their fan base, right?
Elizabeth SchmidtYes.
Natalija PavicBecause for them to alienate that fan base, then what's the point? Then you don't you're not making stuff for more people. You're making stuff for fewer people, right?
(14:11):
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah.
Natalija PavicI don't have a question. It was just a comment. Yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtNo, no, no. That's a really great point. i have I have so many thoughts on that. One really glaring example that comes to mind is one of the shop talk conversations with was with the U.S. CEO of Zadegan Polter, luxury brand.
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd she was talking about how their audience, their customers are half of their customers are Gen Z, which was really surprising because you don't imagine that Gen Z can afford a luxury brand.
(14:37):
Natalija Pavicright
Elizabeth SchmidtBut the reason being is because their Gen X parents are buying them clothes. What they also noticed was because of that, they were gaining a significant amount of Gen X customers as well, who were the parents that were buying, you know, their kids clothes.
Elizabeth SchmidtSo they were, getting exposure to an audience that they didn't realize they needed or wanted, you know, being Gen X, ah simply because of the purchase behavior of their prominent consumer base, which was a really exciting stat to to bear witness to and a perfect example of, you know, paying attention to to the shopping trends.
(15:02):
Natalija PavicMm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnother thing that that that that made me think of ah Consumers aside, there's something that Future Commerce offers is ah we have a subscription offering. It's called Future Commerce Plus, and it's really for anyone in e-com and retail that that just wants additional content and really even richer and deeper thought leadership.
(15:40):
Elizabeth SchmidtWe also have a lot of products within that subscription that gives you access to things like our word of mouth index, which allows anyone to access phenomenal data.
Natalija PavicMm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtWe're talking thousands of Shopify stores were analyzed. to really be able to determine what data is driving word of mouth in general and and how that is influencing purchase behavior. And so if you're, if you want to understand trends, you need access to this tool, a new tool that that we're dropping, which I'm so excited about is ah Field Notes.
(16:12):
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd Field Notes is ah is essentially a retail scorecard where we worked with an expert who physically went into some specific retail locations in Manhattan, one of which is Skims, the other one is Swatch.
Elizabeth SchmidtFor now, we're releasing a bunch, but those are those are the first two that were completed. And to really understand all of the unique touch points in walking into this in-person experience from sight to sound, to smell, to, you know, like what's the first thing that you see and how are all of these things influencing you as a person, as you walk through this in-person brick and mortar store?
(16:44):
Natalija PavicYeah. Right.
Elizabeth Schmidtah Is there tech integration, you know, is it, or is it all just like tactical product, you know, how are they leveraging other unique tools or innovations within the store? And so it just made me think about that, that shopping experience.
(17:04):
Natalija Pavicyeah
Elizabeth Schmidtand And how those things also influence people differently based on where you might be at in your life, based on how much exposure you've even had to a retail experience, or if you're you predominantly shop online.
Natalija Pavicright
Natalija PavicRight. right
Elizabeth SchmidtI mean, all of these things are are things that people need to be mindful of, of how consumers are are experiencing a ah physical space when you walk into it.
(17:33):
Natalija PavicYou know, I like this idea of, especially when we think about social, and i and i think when we think about the trend of commerce anywhere, or some people like to say the purchasification of anything anywhere, right?
Natalija PavicSo being able to say, your point, get a brand impression in store, but then maybe make that purchase later in some other medium.
Elizabeth SchmidtMm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Natalija Pavicum And we often think about um and when somebody is wearing something, right? And you have this experience where you're like, wow, that's an amazing shirt or short.
(18:02):
Natalija PavicWhat is that and where can I get that? And it's not, that may not be a product placement. So that's the sort of the best advertisement that you can get is that is a genuine choice that that influencer made to wear that um and they were not paid or they were not granted those things.
Natalija PavicAnd you are discovering new products through that experience. And what's interesting is that we still don't have the tech tools to do random product discovery in that manner. right We still haven't figured out how to tag um products that are not listed, right products that are just um native in the wild, so to speak.
(18:29):
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah.
Natalija Pavicum But I do feel like we'll probably get there because I know that there's tech out there that can make this possible. and And so it's interesting because to your point of like fans influence and fans move the brand forward, what happens in a world where, you know, we're taking e-commerce in that direction and now you have the ability to discover products, not only in traditional shopping mediums, but literally can take a picture of somebody walking on the street and figure it out.
(19:03):
Elizabeth SchmidtAnywhere.
Natalija PavicExactly. Yeah.
Elizabeth Schmidthere
Natalija PavicSo, I mean, that's, that's coming, which is very, very exciting.
Elizabeth SchmidtAgreed. And if if these social platforms were smart and you heard it here first, but I'm sure someone else has said this before, so I don't want to take credit for it.
Elizabeth SchmidtThere would be an integrated ai tool that as a user, if I'm uploading something, it would scan that content
(19:24):
Natalija PavicYeah.
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth Schmidtfor potential product placement based on whatever they were able to find on the internet of the internet that looked similar, and then allow that user before they upload to tag the product and allow that user to earn a commission on that tagged product.
Natalija PavicRight.
Natalija PavicRight.
(19:45):
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd where they're pulling it from could be determined by whatever backend deals they're making with large you know ah retailers or systems that are significantly curating and aggregating commerce options.
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth SchmidtI'm not going to mention names, but you know, ah that would be, that would be incredible.
Natalija PavicYeah. yeah
(20:06):
Elizabeth SchmidtOr there could be like some unique auto visual tool that, that would be able to scan a post and then be able to recommend products. I don't know why we're not seeing this yet, but I do believe that we will, we will see this very soon, especially on Instagram.
Natalija PavicI, yeah, I think, I think the reason we're not seeing it yet, ah frankly, because I still, i use, I'm a big user of Facebook marketplaces and I'm still shocked, right, that I have to give somebody cash.
(20:28):
Elizabeth Schmidtsame.
Natalija PavicI'm like, can't we just, can't you just add a buy button? Just like Facebook, come on, like add a buy button.
Elizabeth SchmidtOh,
Natalija PavicYou know how much money you're leaving on the table? um So I think it's because ah media is not used to e-commerce. Because think about it. I was like watching some TikTok that was like, here's here's all the stuff that people in White Lotus wore.
(20:50):
Natalija PavicHere was all the like and would like, and they pinned them.
Elizabeth SchmidtI love that.
Natalija PavicIt was like this dress from this brand. And this is how much it is. And I was like, imagine if you were watching a show. Right. And you like paused it or you took a break or you could just say like, oh, I really love that.
Elizabeth SchmidtMm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Natalija PavicWhere can I get that? Because there's so many shows that are so stylistically in tune with their audience and you could have your moment of inspiration from that. You could buy that dress from that episode, you know. um So I think that there's like media companies need to get in on the game and realize that Subscriptions are and ads are not the only revenue source.
(21:24):
Natalija PavicThere's also like the merch, which they, I'm sure if you, you know, if your company was bought by Disney, there's so much merch opportunity that Disney isn't even taking advantage of right now from their shows.
Elizabeth Schmidt100%.
Natalija PavicSo, yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah, I completely agree. and And even you know how that information information is shared when those new series series drops or new seasons drop, it's not yet integrated into the streaming experience.
(21:46):
Natalija PavicYeah.
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth SchmidtI have seen a few shows where in the intermission, because I don't i pay extra to not have commercials on my streaming networks because I hate commercials in general, but...
Natalija Pavicah yeah
Elizabeth SchmidtYou're still seeing commercial commercials that are owned by the network or part of the show, integrated into the show.
Natalija PavicYes.
(22:10):
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd i so I have seen more shows have a QR code in between the breaks or at the end of the episode that says, you know, for for a list of products or outfits you've seen here, enjoy this QR code and and shop whatever.
Natalija Pavicright
Elizabeth Schmidtum Love Island does it.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd...
Natalija PavicThat's amazing.
Natalija Pavicand That's honestly the first step. The QR code is the first step. The second layer to this would be um use you're watching it on your Apple TV. You've got your Apple wallet.
(22:38):
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah.
Natalija PavicJust add it to your cart and use your Apple wallet to buy it.
Elizabeth SchmidtInstant. Yeah.
Natalija PavicYeah. So that's going to be the next level. um And it's so funny because um this totally reminds me of an experience I had. Um, but quite frankly, I lost my train of thought.
Natalija Pavicwe're going to continue this conversation. I bet you i'm going to remember later and I'll come back to it. But, um, anyway, so let's talk.
(23:02):
Elizabeth SchmidtAllowed.
Natalija PavicYeah. Uh, let's talk about, um the, something that we talked earlier about, which was this idea of a fourth space.
Elizabeth SchmidtYes.
Natalija PavicUh, yeah. So walk me through how you define a fourth space, because I think it's relevant with fan creative content. So let's define what that is.
(23:22):
Elizabeth SchmidtSo it's funny, this term is actually trademarked by Eventbrite. And they just they just came out, well, not just, six months ago, because this was a report that they came out in January of 2025 about fourth spaces.
Natalija PavicOh, okay.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd it's really the the convergence of an internet community into an in-person community.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd, and people gathering together surrounding a topic that they're all very, really passionate about in person, but ultimately they are a digital community.
(23:48):
Natalija PavicMm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd so they were looking at the habits of these kinds of spaces and, and what that means. And it's predominantly and enjoyed by younger generations, but, but we're, so we're still seeing millennials participate because they kind of sit across.
Elizabeth SchmidtCross-generationally, you know, some millennials are a little bit gen X and some are a little bit Gen Z.
(24:08):
Natalija PavicMm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth Schmidtah But it's it's a unique space that presents an exciting opportunity for brands to get involved in that is so far showing greater engagement than if they were to just work with influencers.
Elizabeth SchmidtBecause you have people that are so passionate about a particular subject that are all getting together in person and what do you get when you combine, you know, a few hundred people with passion, with direct contact with your brand?
(24:41):
Natalija PavicMm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtYou're the, the, I mean, I hate using the word impressions, but if we're looking at it from a, from a media impression standpoint, you're getting more engagement and interaction in person than you would if you just worked with a micro influencer or even a macro influencer that is posting on their Instagram.
Natalija PavicMm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtYou know, the, the quality of, of interaction with your brand is far less because there is
Natalija PavicRight.
(25:04):
Elizabeth Schmidtno in-person. It lacks that intimacy.
Natalija PavicMm-hmm.
Elizabeth Schmidtand And intimacy is something that I think a lot of people are unsure of how to cultivate still, brand intimacy.
Natalija PavicInteresting. Yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd these in-person experiences can can really create those those moments.
Natalija PavicSo, and it's interesting that they um trademark for a space because, you know, if people are familiar with this idea of the first space being your home, the second space being your work or your school, so the other place where you spend most of your time.
(25:36):
Natalija PavicA third space is typically like a park or a library or public space where people meet. So, A four space, um sort of the way that Eventbrite defining it, is literally planned meetup, right, at a different location. And so that could be a meetup of like, say, your, you know, knitting, ah knitting and stories buddies or knitting and drinking at the local library, you know, or like a D&D group.
(26:01):
Natalija PavicOr, you know, if anybody's interested in sponsoring my local barbecue, um um we're organizing a community barbecue with everybody in the neighborhood we're closing the street.
Elizabeth SchmidtThank
Natalija PavicAnd I think you're right. Like there may not be an influencer there with a wide audience and you might only have access to 200 people. But if you sort of show up as a brand and you sponsor one of those events or you are present and you you provide something for those events, um you will target so very clearly those 200 people that have self-selected them.
(26:30):
Elizabeth Schmidtyou.
Natalija Pavicinto that group of ah hobbyists are passionate about XYZ topic. And it's very, very clearly defined by the event. So um fascinating opportunity for brands.
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah. Yeah. And I kind of love how, you know, fourth spaces almost incorporate aspects of all the other spaces in a way.
Natalija PavicYeah. Yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd, you know, what do you get when you, when you have a fan community, a digital fan community and you put them all in person that, you know, these, these are, these are fans that are really passionate about a particular thing.
(26:59):
Natalija PavicRight. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Elizabeth Schmidtit kind of reminds me of the lookalike contest, trend that we were seeing for a while, you know, the Timothee Chalamet one that was in New York and, and a few, a few others that, that we saw. And so it's almost like fans of a particular actor and then, you know, folks getting together to just nerd out on other people who look like them.
(27:23):
Natalija Pavicright
Elizabeth SchmidtThere was one thing that I just saw this morning that I thought was, was really amusing, which Hermes created a unique IRL experience just recently. it just opened today.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd it's going on for the next 10 days and it's a murder mystery.
Natalija PavicOh.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd they just did, they created this gorgeous pop-up, like almost like museum level, museum quality, moment that you could walk through and engage with the brand, but there's a murder mystery game.
(27:57):
Elizabeth SchmidtSo they gamified their brand.
Natalija PavicThat's so cool. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtI know. And so anybody anybody can go. i I don't know if tickets are free or if you have to pay. I'm sure it's going to sell out if if you have to reserve in advance. But what a unique idea from a luxury brand to take advantage of an IRL pop-up, almost like brick and mortar experience that's gamified.
(28:19):
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd there there's something to be said about the future of commerce in gaming in a way.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd that's something that's something that Justin Brayton actually said at our Visions conference that we had just last week and in New York at the Museum of Modern Art, because Walmart is doing incredible things with spatial right now, which is really exciting of you know integrating commerce moments inside ah inside of a game.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Natalija PavicYeah.
(28:40):
Natalija PavicMm-hmm. Yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd not a lot of brands are doing that right now. And, and so there's, there's something to be said about that also as the future of, of commerce.
Natalija PavicYeah, um I definitely think there's lots of potential. I mean, just even product placements in games. And games are are also tied to digital wallets. There's so much opportunity there to collect payment, um shipping information.
(29:07):
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah.
Natalija PavicYou have an account, right?
Elizabeth SchmidtExactly, exactly.
Natalija PavicSo, yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd we've seen a lot of that already. I mean, this is commerce is not new to gaming. This has been something that's been going on for years, but it's been predominantly digital products, not actual real tangible products that you can get delivered to your house from and a game interaction.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Natalija PavicRight.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Natalija PavicRight. Right.
Elizabeth SchmidtLike that's actually really cool.
Natalija PavicThat could be like, it's like, yeah oh, well, I thought I was buying a Birkin bag for my character, but today ah my doorstep, hu that'd be hilarious.
(29:35):
Elizabeth SchmidtOh, if only.
Natalija Pavicah Okay. So I did remember my thing that I was going to share with you.
Elizabeth SchmidtYes.
Natalija Pavicwas like, I was also listening to you, but also racking my brain. um So I think that there's something to be said for brands that take that take a little bit of risk and with how their brand is represented because there's a tendency to kind like clamp down and be like, no, we can only be shown XYZ way.
Elizabeth SchmidtYes.
(29:55):
Natalija Pavicum Barbie is a great example, right? Like –
Elizabeth SchmidtMm-hmm.
Natalija Pavichiring the director they did and letting her run with these heavy existential themes was like a big risk for the brand but it had a massive payoff um and so similarly i was recently in the market for a car and we were looking at a minivan and we settled on the Honda Odyssey and then we randomly watched um Wolverine and um Deadpool and it wasn't I, an unexpected Honda Odyssey product placement, which we in it, you know what, you should just, you should just watch the reel because I'm pretty sure it was not, I'm pretty sure they did it by accident like by accident.
(30:27):
Elizabeth SchmidtOh.
Natalija PavicLike I don't think the brand contacted the show and was like, we want the minivan in your superhero movie. I'm pretty sure that somebody who is a writer just wanted to make a joke and they had the minivan.
(30:48):
Natalija PavicAnd so they like had it in these scenes where the two main characters found it as a car used car. And then they drove across this like wasteland to pick up a whole bunch of other superheroes. Meanwhile, having a ton of fight scenes in the car and it was very bloody.
Natalija PavicAnd I was like, there's no way Honda signed up for this on purpose. But the funny part is the whole journey was like, look at how many people it can hold. And look at how long it lasts.
(31:12):
Elizabeth SchmidtRight.
Natalija PavicAnd look at how practical it is. And I was like, this is a sign. I said this to my husband. and We have to buy this car.
Elizabeth SchmidtThat's so funny.
Natalija PavicSo the funniest product placements can happen. anywhere and and taking risks I think um is something brands have to.
Elizabeth SchmidtAgreed.
Natalija PavicYeah, relax about a little bit. um Okay, so on this comment um of you know how brands influence commerce, I think we talked about that um quite a bit um and you talked a little bit about finding that ah in in the edition. What are your thoughts on AI?
(31:48):
Elizabeth SchmidtOh, you know, i have so many thoughts on AI, but let me start here. And, and this is a bit polarizing because I just saw that a study was done, a Stanford study was done and the the results were just released.
Elizabeth SchmidtI don't, I don't know how long ago they were released, but the internet knows me so well, my feeds are just perfectly aligned with all of the things I'm interested in. So it consistently feeds me information.
(32:16):
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd, and I just witnessed a lot of thought leaders and scholars talking about this study of LLMs and.
Natalija PavicMm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth Schmidtpeople who use LLMs and the reduction in brain activity for using LLMs for simple copywriting instead of writing it themselves. So this is in the context of, let's say I'm a college student writing an essay and i and I give my AI tool a prompt and then it spits out most of my paper. Now I know like ethically, that is not okay because the tool is writing your paper and please don't do this if you're in college.
(32:57):
Elizabeth SchmidtBut but let's be real, a lot of people are doing it. And they were saying that because of dot the simple narrative exercise that you could actually use real brain power for and you're instead you using a tool to do it for you, you're actually over time reducing your brain's capability of doing that in the future.
Natalija PavicHuh.
Elizabeth SchmidtSo that was a little scary.
(33:19):
Natalija Pavicah
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd so that's that's made me think a lot about it because you know we all use AI, whether it's to analyze data or you know to help to format documents from from existing concepts and theories and and needs and whatnot. But when you're using it just for a simple simplified writing, it's not ideal apparently.
(33:39):
Elizabeth SchmidtBut I do still think that it's a really important tool to just get rid of some of the minutiae tasks that end up taking a lot of time. you know, where, you know, that's not the best use of my time to to crunch a bunch of numbers in an Excel spreadsheet.
Natalija PavicMm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtI can actually upload that spreadsheet of data to AI and it can immediately tell me the trends. And we love that. I do think that there's exciting advances and we're we're actually having some sidebar conversations internally with some of our partners, which is really exciting about some some AI tools that they're working on that I can't mention, but are are really exciting to to see about the future of shopping as it relates to AI and and how it can actually improve upon the experience instead of, I don't, how do i phrase this?
(34:29):
Elizabeth Schmidtum
Natalija PavicImprove instead of replace some existing.
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah, yeah.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtYou know, because i I don't think that people are really thinking ah about innovation within these tools enough. there's There's more than just LLMs.
Elizabeth SchmidtYou know what I mean? Like there's really unique experiences that can be created from just data curation components that can dramatically in influence commerce behavior.
(34:54):
Natalija PavicRight.
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth SchmidtSo I think that there's a lot of exciting things that we'll we'll see over the next few years. that'll impact brand discovery, product discovery, suggestions, things of that nature.
Natalija PavicYeah. Yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd how fun would that be? you know And that's why we're also seeing AI agents just increased dramatically. And this was one of the topics that that was also discussed at our Visions conference where Daisy, the the edit chief editor-in-chief at DIRT, was talking about agents and how we are going to have to eventually start advertising and marketing with agents in mind instead of consumers because over time, agents will be the one that are doing the steps on behalf of their customer.
(35:18):
Natalija Pavicyeah
(35:43):
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd so the agents actually learn the preferences of the customer and the agents are then going on the internet and sourcing and curating whatever data the customer has prompted it to do. So we're going to have to start thinking about how do we market to these agents to make sure that completely, completely.
Natalija Pavicand yeah It's a different world, honestly. Yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtIt was it was really a genius thought process and and theory that I completely agree with and we're already seeing, you know, these These AI systems, perplexity being one, is already surfacing product recommendations.
(36:13):
Elizabeth SchmidtSo we now have to think about how do we get into these systems? And different AI tools are already scrubbing data from different systems. Perplexity scrubs from Reddit a lot. you know We see Google's Gemini tools scrub from various sources. ChatGPT scrubs from various sources.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd so you really have to think about where you're showing up and make sure that you as a brand have an influence across multiple sources. And so all the more reason to you know consider and invest in earned media still, which is really important because that's where you're going to get placement in these sources that AI tools are scrubbing.
(36:46):
Natalija PavicRight.
Natalija PavicRight. That's a good point. um Yeah. Earned media is is definitely going to be more proud of prevalent. And it's interesting how we're shifting from like the focus on SEO and Google is almost like our only channel to this multi-agent channel. Like it might not just be Gemini or ChatGPT, but it could be proprietary agents looking at information, you know.
(37:09):
Natalija PavicSo there's a ton of opportunity.
Elizabeth SchmidtAIO.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtYou heard it here first.
Elizabeth SchmidtTM.
Natalija PavicFantastic. Yeah, we'll we'll make sure to submit the trademark right after this podcast.
Elizabeth SchmidtPerfect.
Natalija PavicWell, this has been really illuminating. Thank you so much for coming on and dropping some amazing knowledge.
(37:31):
Elizabeth SchmidtThank you for having me.
Natalija Pavicum Give me a call to action. Where can people find Laura? Where can people find more of what you're talking and writing about?
Elizabeth SchmidtYes, yes. So please head to shop.futurecommerce.com. You can see all of our printed journals there. We also have a secret candle that goes along with this journal that I made myself.
Natalija Pavicokay.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd it's very limited edition. We had a few available at our Visions Conference at MoMA in New York just this past week, and and a few are still available online. So if you want a candle to go with your book, which is just the ultimate coffee table moment,
(38:04):
Elizabeth Schmidtah please, you know, you shop, sign up for futurecommerce.com's newsletter. it's It's filled with just profound information and a lot of wonderful thought leadership to help you just be better at your job.
Natalija PavicI'm definitely heading there after this conversation. So thank you again, Elizabeth, for joining me today.
Elizabeth SchmidtThank you. It's been great.
Natalija PavicAnd to everyone else, until next time.
(38:24:43):
Natalija PavicThat concludes another episode of The Commerce Order: Powered by KIBO, where we explore the evolving landscape of commerce, from cutting-edge AI and digital transformation to strategies for optimizing operations and enhancing the customer journey. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please take a moment to subscribe, give us a 5-star review, and share this podcast with your colleagues and friends. Ty Sweet We love hearing from our listeners! If you have a suggestion for a future guest or are interested in being a guest yourself, please reach out to us. To learn more about exciting upcoming KIBO features and announcements, visit our website at https://kibocommerce.com/ and follow us on our LinkedIn Page by searching for KIBO Commerce. You can also find these links in the podcast notes. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of The Commerce Order: Powered by KIBO“
Natalija PavicWelcome to The Commerce Order: Powered by KIBO, the podcast that brings you closer to the future of commerce. Each episode, we sit down with industry leaders, innovators, and KIBO experts to unpack the latest trends, tackle the toughest challenges, and reveal the strategies shaping retail, e-commerce and order management. Join us as we explore how technology, culture, and consumer behavior intersect to redefine the shopping experience. Just a quick note for the listeners, the opinions of the guests are their own and do not reflect the corporation where they work. I’m your host Natalija Pavic, Sr. Director of Product Marketing at KIBO Commerce and here is the episode.
(00:01):
Natalija PavicHello, welcome to the show. I'm so excited you're here. um And you know, before we get going, tell me who you are what you do, because we had a fantastic meeting at Shop Talk and I'm just jazzed that we were able to stay in contact and have this conversation.
Elizabeth SchmidtMe too. Thank you for having me. I'm stoked to be here. i am Elizabeth Schmidt and I'm a digital marketer. I've been in marketing for almost 20 years.
(00:26):
Elizabeth SchmidtStarted at my first startup that ended up selling to Disney, which was incredible. And we were the in-house agency of record for Disney, social media agency. So we were actually responsible for acquiring all of Disney's fan pages on Facebook away from the fans because the fans started it, which is wild, which is kind of you know reminiscent of a culture of of habit that we're seeing even today within the fan ecosystem.
Natalija PavicYeah.
(00:51):
Natalija Pavicyeah
Elizabeth SchmidtBut I've been across social media, digital marketing, email, SMS, you know I know all the mediums, all of the the modalities, and and now I'm the head of marketing at Future Commerce.
Natalija PavicThat's so exciting and Future Commerce is such an amazing publication. We'll get into that, but I have an icebreaker for you, which is what's an unpopular opinion that you have? Yeah.
(01:15):
Elizabeth SchmidtWe love unpopular opinions and good Lord, I have so many. ah So, you know, mine often end up being about social.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd i know you and I have have had this discussion before and i did I did have a previous unpopular opinion, but I want to shift it a little bit. Can we just for a moment talk about LaBubu?
(01:39):
Natalija PavicI, hey, I don't know what that is. i think
Elizabeth SchmidtOh my God, even better.
Natalija PavicYou got me. I feel like I've missed something. Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtEven better. This is amazing. So these are these tiny little characters that are like a plush doll that are basically charms because they come on a, on a plastic or they come on a hook.
Elizabeth SchmidtYou can basically attach them to your bag, to your backpack, to your accessory. And they're about to be a billion dollar business. They were made popular by a Korean ah K-pop band.
(02:11):
Natalija PavicOkay.
Elizabeth Schmidtah One of the heads of of the band posted about it. And since then, it's just been all the rage across Gen Alpha and Gen Z. And everybody is is attempting to acquire one.
Elizabeth SchmidtThey are Gen Z's Beanie Baby.
Natalija PavicOh, okay. Okay.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd it is wild to see what people are doing with these toys. And I can't stand them.
(02:31):
Natalija PavicYeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtI mean, we're seeing photos of of individuals that have designer handbags and they're adding these libuboo little plush charms to these like Birkins.
Natalija Pavicyeah Yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd so you you have basically the the financial equivalent of a car on your arm and you're attaching this like plush doll to it.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd that it's just wild to me, but it also showcases a consistent trend of I want to accessorize my accessories. and And we've seen it with the road phone case that allows you to attach a lip gloss to it.
(03:07):
Natalija PavicYeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtSo your phone case is then like your makeup bag.
Natalija Pavicyeah
Natalija Pavicyeah
Elizabeth SchmidtYou've seen it with the Stanley mugs and their collaboration with Post Malone, which is like a fatigue wrap and pockets and chains on your fricking Stanley mug to drink water and make it cooler somehow.
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth SchmidtSo accessorizing accessories and is like a deep thing that's been going on for years now. And and we're just seeing that it's just really pervasive across across generations. And I can't stand them, but but there's videos of people that are actually giving their LeBubu plush dolls manicures and adding long nails and then adding charms to those nails and then matching their own nails to their LeBubu's nails and then dressing it up in Prada
(03:41):
Natalija PavicOh. ah
Elizabeth Schmidtclothing and shoes and bags. And and so they're like one upping their labubus. It is profound.
Natalija Pavicum I just feel like, yeah, I mean, ah get accessorizing accessories. and just feel like if we can do that, can't we just give women pockets? hey Like, it feels like we're getting, like, I wouldn't have to have pockets on my Stanley if I had pockets on my clothes, you know what I mean?
(04:09):
Elizabeth SchmidtYes.
Elizabeth SchmidtYes. And not pockets that only fit half of your hand, please.
Natalija PavicRight, yeah, what's the point of that?
Elizabeth SchmidtThe full hand, even maybe up to the forearm a little would be nice.
Natalija PavicYeah, yeah, yeah, so...
Elizabeth SchmidtMan pockets. Why do they get the deep pockets?
Natalija PavicAnd why did they take them away to begin with? It's honestly, it's a conspiracy. You know what? They're going to try and tell us that they never did, that they were never there. It's like, okay, well, then that's getting into some ah conspiracy theories, which we won't, we won't get into that.
(04:38):
Natalija PavicBut, well, you know what? Thank you for bringing that trend to me. I'm going to go and check it out and, um and see, see what I think about it.
Elizabeth SchmidtHighly recommend, it's wild.
Natalija PavicBut um future commerce, tell me a little bit about what you guys do.
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah. Yeah. So Future Commerce is like a culture magazine, ah digital culture magazine, but we also have in-person experiences. It's it's a ah really incredible destination, futurecommerce.com, where you can go and learn about the future of commerce.
(05:08):
Natalija PavicMm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd Future Commerce believes that commerce is culture. Commerce drives our culture forward. it influences culture. The two are inextably inextricably intertwined. And so all of the articles, editorial, podcasts, and in-person experiences that that we create just cultivate those conversations, you know, and and it's oftentimes looking into the future through through commerce thought leadership.
(05:35):
Elizabeth SchmidtIt's interviewing commerce leaders. It's looking at what individuals that are leading these major large retail brands and e-commerce brands, what are they doing and how are they, how are they driving culture forward and how are they responding to, to culture and, and what kinds of things are they investing in for the future?
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd, and so if you are, or if you touch e-commerce in any way or retail in any way, You want to subscribe to our newsletter. you want to You want to read the thought leadership on our website. You want to just involve yourself in this world because what what our writers and our our CEO and CRO, our two co-founders, Philip And Brian, what they're doing is is really what no one else is doing. And and they're really looking at the future of of what we're going to see in the next five, 10 years.
(06:26):
Elizabeth Schmidtand And their predictions are over 90% accurate over the last three years, which has been incredible to see, you know.
Natalija PavicWow.
Elizabeth SchmidtThey predicted the continued rise and success of Costco, which we've seen. They predicted the fall of Joanne Fabrics, which we've seen. And and they they really they really are experts in the space. and And it's been helpful for me just as a digital marketer, even to better understand the commerce industry and the retail industry simply by being involved with this company. So I'm grateful to...
(06:56):
Natalija PavicIt's interesting because, um you know, you guys have a lot of deep conversations with retailers and you're in, you you're there on the ground, literally facilitating, you know, you guys host like round tables and exact dinners. And so you're really, really close to everything that's happening in the industry.
Natalija Pavicum And so you are doing predictions and I see the book behind you, Laura. ah Tell me a little bit about, and we can talk about predictions from, 2030. I don't know if that's part of lore and we can talk about lore separately.
(07:29):
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah, I mean, let's talk about it all. ah So Lore is this year's annual printed journal from Future Commerce. They come out with a new printed journal every year. And they've been doing this for the last few years.
Elizabeth SchmidtLast year was a multiplayer brand and, and this year is lore and we're already working on next year's, which is really exciting. And I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna drop the title to that just yet.
(07:50):
Natalija Pavicyeah
Elizabeth SchmidtI'll let, I'll let the team do that.
Natalija PavicAll right.
Elizabeth SchmidtBut lore is really about the myth behind brands. So if you think about brands, brands are myths, brand. The brand narrative is something that is made up. Yes, it could be based on a true story of whomever founded the brand.
Natalija PavicMm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtBut but if you think about the lore behind a brand, someone decided what that narrative is, you know, and the leaders continue to and the employees continue to perpetuate that narrative.
(08:17):
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd so as a consumer and as a fan, we are attaching ourselves to myth when we become a fan of a brand. And so it really explores what that is, what that means, how people are connected to that.
Natalija PavicYeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth Schmidtand And how that in and of itself is is driving culture forward. There's a phenomenal interview with Justin Breeden, who's the head of marketing innovation at Walmart.
Natalija Pavicyeah
(08:40):
Elizabeth Schmidtthere's There's a wonderful section on memes in general and what that means. There's a wonderful section about the the brand Come and Go, which is hilarious.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd it's 280 page book filled with essays poetry like journal entries, ah unique ways to engage with these different brands.
(09:05):
Natalija PavicYeah. Yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd and there's some some Easter eggs and some um kind of hidden meanings.
Natalija Pavicyeah
Elizabeth SchmidtSo if you're in marketing and branding and and or if you're a creative director or if you are involved in just the creative arts in any way, this is a book that you need.
Natalija PavicSo, and let's talk a little bit about that because myths are so, so important. um They're important in being able to do communicate with people more than like, more than 200 individuals. like if you if you Like you can have a small circle of up to 200 individuals that you can possibly know on a first name basis and you can communicate with them individually, but anything beyond that, ah myths are really necessary to you know carry your message forward.
(09:49):
Elizabeth SchmidtMm-hmm.
Natalija PavicHow do you think storytelling is changing? Because, You know, we're seeing the sort of drop in importance of the website and we're seeing the increase in importance of other mediums like social and we have marketplaces and we have all these other places where people can discover your brand, but these are not necessarily...
(10:11):
Natalija Pavicmediums that the core brand owns. And so storytelling has always, from my opinion, um it's been sort of fragmented from the perspective of like, how do we get that message across? And you know people will say, well, let's buy ads, let's do pop-up, let's you know ah have an experience.
Natalija PavicAnd so there was all these different tactics, but as we continue to fragment, um what are some of the ways that brands can continue to tell their stories in the future?
(10:39):
Elizabeth SchmidtI love this question. So one of the the terms that I mentioned earlier was multiplayer.
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd that's, that's something that really aligns itself with this concept. So brands creating their, their own narratives today. If you're not paying attention to what, how your customers are co-creating with you, then you're completely missing out because they're the ones that are actually continuing that brand narrative.
(11:03):
Elizabeth SchmidtThey're the ones driving word of mouth. They're the ones that are creating content to present your brand to their networks and so on and so forth. So they're, they're co-creating.
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth Schmidtyour brand with you, hence the multiplayer brand concept. And if you're not creating an environment that encourages that, then you're missing out on a key aspect of connecting with consumers and fans.
(11:29):
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd and you know even just how you're leveraging that content and how you're integrating that co-created content into your brand narrative is also incredibly important.
Elizabeth SchmidtOftentimes we see fans that are that have better product innovation ideas than the brands themselves.
Natalija PavicMm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd so, you know, you need to sit in those comments. You need to really invest in community management across all of these touch points and platforms, whether they're social or or ah things like Discord or or, you know, even Twitch and now Substack, you know, really paying attention to the commentary that your audience is is creating to better understand how they feel about your brand what they think about your brand, how they're engaging with your brand and how they're evolving your brand with or without you.
(12:19):
Natalija PavicYeah, it's it's interesting because you know it means that you're you don't necessarily control the story completely and you shouldn't, right?
Elizabeth SchmidtExactly. Exactly.
Natalija PavicRight, and you've already mentioned two examples. You mentioned the Disney example where where the fans were creating the pages, and you mentioned the Boo Boo example where the fans are um giving them long nails and accessorizing them.
(12:39):
Natalija PavicAnd so they're already changing what that brand is and what that means and who they are, right? um And it's interesting because, you know, if i I may be a brand and I may want my brand to be XYZ, and then I may be shocked or surprised by actually who's wearing them.
Natalija PavicAnd I can think of a distinct example. oh it was like a long time ago. i won't mention the retailer, but i was talking to a Canadian brand and I was um considered, we were talking about their target audience and they were like really focusing on people in their 20s and me being in my 30s. I was like, um so, you know, you also have another target audience, which is, which is the,
(13:15):
Natalija Pavicah You know, a little bit older woman who um wants to feel like wants the high waisted jeans that that's what they had at the time who wants to like almost like relive the eighty s even as Gen Z and Gen Alpha are also reliving the 80s with her.
Elizabeth SchmidtMm-hmm.
Natalija Pavicum And they were like, yeah, we know a lot of those people shop at our stores, but they at the time they hadn't really thought about it. They hadn't thought about targeting them. um And they were almost like, well, that's not, you know, our brand is supposed to be young and sexy. And now you have this like new demographic that's coming in and,
(13:47):
Natalija Pavicum They stand for different things. They're more practical, right? um And it's interesting how ah brands can sort of evolve but also um thrive if they absorb and accept their fan base, right?
Elizabeth SchmidtYes.
Natalija PavicBecause for them to alienate that fan base, then what's the point? Then you don't you're not making stuff for more people. You're making stuff for fewer people, right?
(14:11):
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah.
Natalija PavicI don't have a question. It was just a comment. Yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtNo, no, no. That's a really great point. i have I have so many thoughts on that. One really glaring example that comes to mind is one of the shop talk conversations with was with the U.S. CEO of Zadegan Polter, luxury brand.
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd she was talking about how their audience, their customers are half of their customers are Gen Z, which was really surprising because you don't imagine that Gen Z can afford a luxury brand.
(14:37):
Natalija Pavicright
Elizabeth SchmidtBut the reason being is because their Gen X parents are buying them clothes. What they also noticed was because of that, they were gaining a significant amount of Gen X customers as well, who were the parents that were buying, you know, their kids clothes.
Elizabeth SchmidtSo they were, getting exposure to an audience that they didn't realize they needed or wanted, you know, being Gen X, ah simply because of the purchase behavior of their prominent consumer base, which was a really exciting stat to to bear witness to and a perfect example of, you know, paying attention to to the shopping trends.
(15:02):
Natalija PavicMm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnother thing that that that that made me think of ah Consumers aside, there's something that Future Commerce offers is ah we have a subscription offering. It's called Future Commerce Plus, and it's really for anyone in e-com and retail that that just wants additional content and really even richer and deeper thought leadership.
(15:40):
Elizabeth SchmidtWe also have a lot of products within that subscription that gives you access to things like our word of mouth index, which allows anyone to access phenomenal data.
Natalija PavicMm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtWe're talking thousands of Shopify stores were analyzed. to really be able to determine what data is driving word of mouth in general and and how that is influencing purchase behavior. And so if you're, if you want to understand trends, you need access to this tool, a new tool that that we're dropping, which I'm so excited about is ah Field Notes.
(16:12):
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd Field Notes is ah is essentially a retail scorecard where we worked with an expert who physically went into some specific retail locations in Manhattan, one of which is Skims, the other one is Swatch.
Elizabeth SchmidtFor now, we're releasing a bunch, but those are those are the first two that were completed. And to really understand all of the unique touch points in walking into this in-person experience from sight to sound, to smell, to, you know, like what's the first thing that you see and how are all of these things influencing you as a person, as you walk through this in-person brick and mortar store?
(16:44):
Natalija PavicYeah. Right.
Elizabeth Schmidtah Is there tech integration, you know, is it, or is it all just like tactical product, you know, how are they leveraging other unique tools or innovations within the store? And so it just made me think about that, that shopping experience.
(17:04):
Natalija Pavicyeah
Elizabeth Schmidtand And how those things also influence people differently based on where you might be at in your life, based on how much exposure you've even had to a retail experience, or if you're you predominantly shop online.
Natalija Pavicright
Natalija PavicRight. right
Elizabeth SchmidtI mean, all of these things are are things that people need to be mindful of, of how consumers are are experiencing a ah physical space when you walk into it.
(17:33):
Natalija PavicYou know, I like this idea of, especially when we think about social, and i and i think when we think about the trend of commerce anywhere, or some people like to say the purchasification of anything anywhere, right?
Natalija PavicSo being able to say, your point, get a brand impression in store, but then maybe make that purchase later in some other medium.
Elizabeth SchmidtMm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Natalija Pavicum And we often think about um and when somebody is wearing something, right? And you have this experience where you're like, wow, that's an amazing shirt or short.
(18:02):
Natalija PavicWhat is that and where can I get that? And it's not, that may not be a product placement. So that's the sort of the best advertisement that you can get is that is a genuine choice that that influencer made to wear that um and they were not paid or they were not granted those things.
Natalija PavicAnd you are discovering new products through that experience. And what's interesting is that we still don't have the tech tools to do random product discovery in that manner. right We still haven't figured out how to tag um products that are not listed, right products that are just um native in the wild, so to speak.
(18:29):
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah.
Natalija Pavicum But I do feel like we'll probably get there because I know that there's tech out there that can make this possible. and And so it's interesting because to your point of like fans influence and fans move the brand forward, what happens in a world where, you know, we're taking e-commerce in that direction and now you have the ability to discover products, not only in traditional shopping mediums, but literally can take a picture of somebody walking on the street and figure it out.
(19:03):
Elizabeth SchmidtAnywhere.
Natalija PavicExactly. Yeah.
Elizabeth Schmidthere
Natalija PavicSo, I mean, that's, that's coming, which is very, very exciting.
Elizabeth SchmidtAgreed. And if if these social platforms were smart and you heard it here first, but I'm sure someone else has said this before, so I don't want to take credit for it.
Elizabeth SchmidtThere would be an integrated ai tool that as a user, if I'm uploading something, it would scan that content
(19:24):
Natalija PavicYeah.
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth Schmidtfor potential product placement based on whatever they were able to find on the internet of the internet that looked similar, and then allow that user before they upload to tag the product and allow that user to earn a commission on that tagged product.
Natalija PavicRight.
Natalija PavicRight.
(19:45):
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd where they're pulling it from could be determined by whatever backend deals they're making with large you know ah retailers or systems that are significantly curating and aggregating commerce options.
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth SchmidtI'm not going to mention names, but you know, ah that would be, that would be incredible.
Natalija PavicYeah. yeah
(20:06):
Elizabeth SchmidtOr there could be like some unique auto visual tool that, that would be able to scan a post and then be able to recommend products. I don't know why we're not seeing this yet, but I do believe that we will, we will see this very soon, especially on Instagram.
Natalija PavicI, yeah, I think, I think the reason we're not seeing it yet, ah frankly, because I still, i use, I'm a big user of Facebook marketplaces and I'm still shocked, right, that I have to give somebody cash.
(20:28):
Elizabeth Schmidtsame.
Natalija PavicI'm like, can't we just, can't you just add a buy button? Just like Facebook, come on, like add a buy button.
Elizabeth SchmidtOh,
Natalija PavicYou know how much money you're leaving on the table? um So I think it's because ah media is not used to e-commerce. Because think about it. I was like watching some TikTok that was like, here's here's all the stuff that people in White Lotus wore.
(20:50):
Natalija PavicHere was all the like and would like, and they pinned them.
Elizabeth SchmidtI love that.
Natalija PavicIt was like this dress from this brand. And this is how much it is. And I was like, imagine if you were watching a show. Right. And you like paused it or you took a break or you could just say like, oh, I really love that.
Elizabeth SchmidtMm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Natalija PavicWhere can I get that? Because there's so many shows that are so stylistically in tune with their audience and you could have your moment of inspiration from that. You could buy that dress from that episode, you know. um So I think that there's like media companies need to get in on the game and realize that Subscriptions are and ads are not the only revenue source.
(21:24):
Natalija PavicThere's also like the merch, which they, I'm sure if you, you know, if your company was bought by Disney, there's so much merch opportunity that Disney isn't even taking advantage of right now from their shows.
Elizabeth Schmidt100%.
Natalija PavicSo, yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah, I completely agree. and And even you know how that information information is shared when those new series series drops or new seasons drop, it's not yet integrated into the streaming experience.
(21:46):
Natalija PavicYeah.
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth SchmidtI have seen a few shows where in the intermission, because I don't i pay extra to not have commercials on my streaming networks because I hate commercials in general, but...
Natalija Pavicah yeah
Elizabeth SchmidtYou're still seeing commercial commercials that are owned by the network or part of the show, integrated into the show.
Natalija PavicYes.
(22:10):
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd i so I have seen more shows have a QR code in between the breaks or at the end of the episode that says, you know, for for a list of products or outfits you've seen here, enjoy this QR code and and shop whatever.
Natalija Pavicright
Elizabeth Schmidtum Love Island does it.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd...
Natalija PavicThat's amazing.
Natalija Pavicand That's honestly the first step. The QR code is the first step. The second layer to this would be um use you're watching it on your Apple TV. You've got your Apple wallet.
(22:38):
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah.
Natalija PavicJust add it to your cart and use your Apple wallet to buy it.
Elizabeth SchmidtInstant. Yeah.
Natalija PavicYeah. So that's going to be the next level. um And it's so funny because um this totally reminds me of an experience I had. Um, but quite frankly, I lost my train of thought.
Natalija Pavicwe're going to continue this conversation. I bet you i'm going to remember later and I'll come back to it. But, um, anyway, so let's talk.
(23:02):
Elizabeth SchmidtAllowed.
Natalija PavicYeah. Uh, let's talk about, um the, something that we talked earlier about, which was this idea of a fourth space.
Elizabeth SchmidtYes.
Natalija PavicUh, yeah. So walk me through how you define a fourth space, because I think it's relevant with fan creative content. So let's define what that is.
(23:22):
Elizabeth SchmidtSo it's funny, this term is actually trademarked by Eventbrite. And they just they just came out, well, not just, six months ago, because this was a report that they came out in January of 2025 about fourth spaces.
Natalija PavicOh, okay.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd it's really the the convergence of an internet community into an in-person community.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd, and people gathering together surrounding a topic that they're all very, really passionate about in person, but ultimately they are a digital community.
(23:48):
Natalija PavicMm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd so they were looking at the habits of these kinds of spaces and, and what that means. And it's predominantly and enjoyed by younger generations, but, but we're, so we're still seeing millennials participate because they kind of sit across.
Elizabeth SchmidtCross-generationally, you know, some millennials are a little bit gen X and some are a little bit Gen Z.
(24:08):
Natalija PavicMm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth Schmidtah But it's it's a unique space that presents an exciting opportunity for brands to get involved in that is so far showing greater engagement than if they were to just work with influencers.
Elizabeth SchmidtBecause you have people that are so passionate about a particular subject that are all getting together in person and what do you get when you combine, you know, a few hundred people with passion, with direct contact with your brand?
(24:41):
Natalija PavicMm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtYou're the, the, I mean, I hate using the word impressions, but if we're looking at it from a, from a media impression standpoint, you're getting more engagement and interaction in person than you would if you just worked with a micro influencer or even a macro influencer that is posting on their Instagram.
Natalija PavicMm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtYou know, the, the quality of, of interaction with your brand is far less because there is
Natalija PavicRight.
(25:04):
Elizabeth Schmidtno in-person. It lacks that intimacy.
Natalija PavicMm-hmm.
Elizabeth Schmidtand And intimacy is something that I think a lot of people are unsure of how to cultivate still, brand intimacy.
Natalija PavicInteresting. Yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd these in-person experiences can can really create those those moments.
Natalija PavicSo, and it's interesting that they um trademark for a space because, you know, if people are familiar with this idea of the first space being your home, the second space being your work or your school, so the other place where you spend most of your time.
(25:36):
Natalija PavicA third space is typically like a park or a library or public space where people meet. So, A four space, um sort of the way that Eventbrite defining it, is literally planned meetup, right, at a different location. And so that could be a meetup of like, say, your, you know, knitting, ah knitting and stories buddies or knitting and drinking at the local library, you know, or like a D&D group.
(26:01):
Natalija PavicOr, you know, if anybody's interested in sponsoring my local barbecue, um um we're organizing a community barbecue with everybody in the neighborhood we're closing the street.
Elizabeth SchmidtThank
Natalija PavicAnd I think you're right. Like there may not be an influencer there with a wide audience and you might only have access to 200 people. But if you sort of show up as a brand and you sponsor one of those events or you are present and you you provide something for those events, um you will target so very clearly those 200 people that have self-selected them.
(26:30):
Elizabeth Schmidtyou.
Natalija Pavicinto that group of ah hobbyists are passionate about XYZ topic. And it's very, very clearly defined by the event. So um fascinating opportunity for brands.
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah. Yeah. And I kind of love how, you know, fourth spaces almost incorporate aspects of all the other spaces in a way.
Natalija PavicYeah. Yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd, you know, what do you get when you, when you have a fan community, a digital fan community and you put them all in person that, you know, these, these are, these are fans that are really passionate about a particular thing.
(26:59):
Natalija PavicRight. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Elizabeth Schmidtit kind of reminds me of the lookalike contest, trend that we were seeing for a while, you know, the Timothee Chalamet one that was in New York and, and a few, a few others that, that we saw. And so it's almost like fans of a particular actor and then, you know, folks getting together to just nerd out on other people who look like them.
(27:23):
Natalija Pavicright
Elizabeth SchmidtThere was one thing that I just saw this morning that I thought was, was really amusing, which Hermes created a unique IRL experience just recently. it just opened today.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd it's going on for the next 10 days and it's a murder mystery.
Natalija PavicOh.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd they just did, they created this gorgeous pop-up, like almost like museum level, museum quality, moment that you could walk through and engage with the brand, but there's a murder mystery game.
(27:57):
Elizabeth SchmidtSo they gamified their brand.
Natalija PavicThat's so cool. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtI know. And so anybody anybody can go. i I don't know if tickets are free or if you have to pay. I'm sure it's going to sell out if if you have to reserve in advance. But what a unique idea from a luxury brand to take advantage of an IRL pop-up, almost like brick and mortar experience that's gamified.
(28:19):
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd there there's something to be said about the future of commerce in gaming in a way.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd that's something that's something that Justin Brayton actually said at our Visions conference that we had just last week and in New York at the Museum of Modern Art, because Walmart is doing incredible things with spatial right now, which is really exciting of you know integrating commerce moments inside ah inside of a game.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Natalija PavicYeah.
(28:40):
Natalija PavicMm-hmm. Yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd not a lot of brands are doing that right now. And, and so there's, there's something to be said about that also as the future of, of commerce.
Natalija PavicYeah, um I definitely think there's lots of potential. I mean, just even product placements in games. And games are are also tied to digital wallets. There's so much opportunity there to collect payment, um shipping information.
(29:07):
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah.
Natalija PavicYou have an account, right?
Elizabeth SchmidtExactly, exactly.
Natalija PavicSo, yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd we've seen a lot of that already. I mean, this is commerce is not new to gaming. This has been something that's been going on for years, but it's been predominantly digital products, not actual real tangible products that you can get delivered to your house from and a game interaction.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Natalija PavicRight.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Natalija PavicRight. Right.
Elizabeth SchmidtLike that's actually really cool.
Natalija PavicThat could be like, it's like, yeah oh, well, I thought I was buying a Birkin bag for my character, but today ah my doorstep, hu that'd be hilarious.
(29:35):
Elizabeth SchmidtOh, if only.
Natalija Pavicah Okay. So I did remember my thing that I was going to share with you.
Elizabeth SchmidtYes.
Natalija Pavicwas like, I was also listening to you, but also racking my brain. um So I think that there's something to be said for brands that take that take a little bit of risk and with how their brand is represented because there's a tendency to kind like clamp down and be like, no, we can only be shown XYZ way.
Elizabeth SchmidtYes.
(29:55):
Natalija Pavicum Barbie is a great example, right? Like –
Elizabeth SchmidtMm-hmm.
Natalija Pavichiring the director they did and letting her run with these heavy existential themes was like a big risk for the brand but it had a massive payoff um and so similarly i was recently in the market for a car and we were looking at a minivan and we settled on the Honda Odyssey and then we randomly watched um Wolverine and um Deadpool and it wasn't I, an unexpected Honda Odyssey product placement, which we in it, you know what, you should just, you should just watch the reel because I'm pretty sure it was not, I'm pretty sure they did it by accident like by accident.
(30:27):
Elizabeth SchmidtOh.
Natalija PavicLike I don't think the brand contacted the show and was like, we want the minivan in your superhero movie. I'm pretty sure that somebody who is a writer just wanted to make a joke and they had the minivan.
(30:48):
Natalija PavicAnd so they like had it in these scenes where the two main characters found it as a car used car. And then they drove across this like wasteland to pick up a whole bunch of other superheroes. Meanwhile, having a ton of fight scenes in the car and it was very bloody.
Natalija PavicAnd I was like, there's no way Honda signed up for this on purpose. But the funny part is the whole journey was like, look at how many people it can hold. And look at how long it lasts.
(31:12):
Elizabeth SchmidtRight.
Natalija PavicAnd look at how practical it is. And I was like, this is a sign. I said this to my husband. and We have to buy this car.
Elizabeth SchmidtThat's so funny.
Natalija PavicSo the funniest product placements can happen. anywhere and and taking risks I think um is something brands have to.
Elizabeth SchmidtAgreed.
Natalija PavicYeah, relax about a little bit. um Okay, so on this comment um of you know how brands influence commerce, I think we talked about that um quite a bit um and you talked a little bit about finding that ah in in the edition. What are your thoughts on AI?
(31:48):
Elizabeth SchmidtOh, you know, i have so many thoughts on AI, but let me start here. And, and this is a bit polarizing because I just saw that a study was done, a Stanford study was done and the the results were just released.
Elizabeth SchmidtI don't, I don't know how long ago they were released, but the internet knows me so well, my feeds are just perfectly aligned with all of the things I'm interested in. So it consistently feeds me information.
(32:16):
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd, and I just witnessed a lot of thought leaders and scholars talking about this study of LLMs and.
Natalija PavicMm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth Schmidtpeople who use LLMs and the reduction in brain activity for using LLMs for simple copywriting instead of writing it themselves. So this is in the context of, let's say I'm a college student writing an essay and i and I give my AI tool a prompt and then it spits out most of my paper. Now I know like ethically, that is not okay because the tool is writing your paper and please don't do this if you're in college.
(32:57):
Elizabeth SchmidtBut but let's be real, a lot of people are doing it. And they were saying that because of dot the simple narrative exercise that you could actually use real brain power for and you're instead you using a tool to do it for you, you're actually over time reducing your brain's capability of doing that in the future.
Natalija PavicHuh.
Elizabeth SchmidtSo that was a little scary.
(33:19):
Natalija Pavicah
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd so that's that's made me think a lot about it because you know we all use AI, whether it's to analyze data or you know to help to format documents from from existing concepts and theories and and needs and whatnot. But when you're using it just for a simple simplified writing, it's not ideal apparently.
(33:39):
Elizabeth SchmidtBut I do still think that it's a really important tool to just get rid of some of the minutiae tasks that end up taking a lot of time. you know, where, you know, that's not the best use of my time to to crunch a bunch of numbers in an Excel spreadsheet.
Natalija PavicMm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Elizabeth SchmidtI can actually upload that spreadsheet of data to AI and it can immediately tell me the trends. And we love that. I do think that there's exciting advances and we're we're actually having some sidebar conversations internally with some of our partners, which is really exciting about some some AI tools that they're working on that I can't mention, but are are really exciting to to see about the future of shopping as it relates to AI and and how it can actually improve upon the experience instead of, I don't, how do i phrase this?
(34:29):
Elizabeth Schmidtum
Natalija PavicImprove instead of replace some existing.
Elizabeth SchmidtYeah, yeah.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtYou know, because i I don't think that people are really thinking ah about innovation within these tools enough. there's There's more than just LLMs.
Elizabeth SchmidtYou know what I mean? Like there's really unique experiences that can be created from just data curation components that can dramatically in influence commerce behavior.
(34:54):
Natalija PavicRight.
Natalija PavicRight.
Elizabeth SchmidtSo I think that there's a lot of exciting things that we'll we'll see over the next few years. that'll impact brand discovery, product discovery, suggestions, things of that nature.
Natalija PavicYeah. Yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd how fun would that be? you know And that's why we're also seeing AI agents just increased dramatically. And this was one of the topics that that was also discussed at our Visions conference where Daisy, the the edit chief editor-in-chief at DIRT, was talking about agents and how we are going to have to eventually start advertising and marketing with agents in mind instead of consumers because over time, agents will be the one that are doing the steps on behalf of their customer.
(35:18):
Natalija Pavicyeah
(35:43):
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd so the agents actually learn the preferences of the customer and the agents are then going on the internet and sourcing and curating whatever data the customer has prompted it to do. So we're going to have to start thinking about how do we market to these agents to make sure that completely, completely.
Natalija Pavicand yeah It's a different world, honestly. Yeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtIt was it was really a genius thought process and and theory that I completely agree with and we're already seeing, you know, these These AI systems, perplexity being one, is already surfacing product recommendations.
(36:13):
Elizabeth SchmidtSo we now have to think about how do we get into these systems? And different AI tools are already scrubbing data from different systems. Perplexity scrubs from Reddit a lot. you know We see Google's Gemini tools scrub from various sources. ChatGPT scrubs from various sources.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd so you really have to think about where you're showing up and make sure that you as a brand have an influence across multiple sources. And so all the more reason to you know consider and invest in earned media still, which is really important because that's where you're going to get placement in these sources that AI tools are scrubbing.
(36:46):
Natalija PavicRight.
Natalija PavicRight. That's a good point. um Yeah. Earned media is is definitely going to be more proud of prevalent. And it's interesting how we're shifting from like the focus on SEO and Google is almost like our only channel to this multi-agent channel. Like it might not just be Gemini or ChatGPT, but it could be proprietary agents looking at information, you know.
(37:09):
Natalija PavicSo there's a ton of opportunity.
Elizabeth SchmidtAIO.
Natalija PavicYeah.
Elizabeth SchmidtYou heard it here first.
Elizabeth SchmidtTM.
Natalija PavicFantastic. Yeah, we'll we'll make sure to submit the trademark right after this podcast.
Elizabeth SchmidtPerfect.
Natalija PavicWell, this has been really illuminating. Thank you so much for coming on and dropping some amazing knowledge.
(37:31):
Elizabeth SchmidtThank you for having me.
Natalija Pavicum Give me a call to action. Where can people find Laura? Where can people find more of what you're talking and writing about?
Elizabeth SchmidtYes, yes. So please head to shop.futurecommerce.com. You can see all of our printed journals there. We also have a secret candle that goes along with this journal that I made myself.
Natalija Pavicokay.
Elizabeth SchmidtAnd it's very limited edition. We had a few available at our Visions Conference at MoMA in New York just this past week, and and a few are still available online. So if you want a candle to go with your book, which is just the ultimate coffee table moment,
(38:04):
Elizabeth Schmidtah please, you know, you shop, sign up for futurecommerce.com's newsletter. it's It's filled with just profound information and a lot of wonderful thought leadership to help you just be better at your job.
Natalija PavicI'm definitely heading there after this conversation. So thank you again, Elizabeth, for joining me today.
Elizabeth SchmidtThank you. It's been great.
Natalija PavicAnd to everyone else, until next time.
(38:24:43):
Natalija PavicThat concludes another episode of The Commerce Order: Powered by KIBO, where we explore the evolving landscape of commerce, from cutting-edge AI and digital transformation to strategies for optimizing operations and enhancing the customer journey. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please take a moment to subscribe, give us a 5-star review, and share this podcast with your colleagues and friends. Ty Sweet We love hearing from our listeners! If you have a suggestion for a future guest or are interested in being a guest yourself, please reach out to us. To learn more about exciting upcoming KIBO features and announcements, visit our website at https://kibocommerce.com/ and follow us on our LinkedIn Page by searching for KIBO Commerce. You can also find these links in the podcast notes. Tune in next week for a fresh new episode of The Commerce Order: Powered by KIBO“
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.