September 8, 2024 • 35 mins
In this episode of the DeWinter Difference, Dara Bazzano, SVP, Chief Accounting Officer at T-Mobile & Independent Board Director sits down with Derek to share insights from her career journey. From her start in public accounting to a run of successful executive leadership positions and board seats, Dara shares what propelled her through professional and personal challenges, including early motherhood and divorce, and what inspired her to move on from public accounting.
Derek and Dara discuss how she developed the skills necessary to lead her team at T-Mobile, the best ways to advocate for your needs in a professional setting, and the best podcasts they may or may not be listening to.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hello, everyone.
(00:00):
My name is Derek DeWinter, andwelcome to our listeners who are
tuning into the DeWinter Difference,an audio podcast where I spend
a bit of time with incredibleexecutives I've known for years.
And you get to listen in.
I hope that our conversations are unique,fun, insightful, short enough, keep your
attention, but long enough to listenon the way from point A to point B.
Our goal is to have fun, sharing a fewtakeaways that you can apply in your
(00:23):
own career, life, and relationships.
Today, you get to listen into aconversation between yours truly and
Dara Pizzano, SVP and CAO of T Mobile.
As if being the chief accountingofficer of an 80 billion company with
a 200 billion market cap wasn't enough,Dara is also on the board of Lulu's,
Self Financial, and Girls on the Run.
(00:45):
Dara, I really appreciate youtolerating me these last dozen
or so years and joining us today.
Thank you.
Thank you very much for the invite.
I appreciate it.
It's great to catch up with you.
Excellent.
So for our listeners, can you share alittle bit about your career progression
as a baseline and a couple of professionalor personal drivers that led you
ultimately to where you are at T Mobile?
(01:07):
Essentially a quick scrollthrough your LinkedIn profile.
So it's a great question.
Actually, you know, I would sayI'll start with the drivers.
The driver and, and drivers Ishould say in my professional
career has been a hundred percentmy family and my family situation.
So I was married young and had twokids and went through a divorce at 27.
(01:32):
And I would say that that really.
Sort of outlined or framed up howit is that I approached my career.
I found actually public accountingsurprisingly enough to be very
accommodating for me and providingme the flexibility that I needed to
raise my kids as a single parent.
Although I will say that Ihad worked really hard with
(01:56):
my ex husband to co parent.
And what our divorce.
allowed for me, which is going to soundvery strange, but It allowed me between
the divorce and public accounting.
When my kids were with their father itwas really easy for me to just work a lot
and do what it is that I needed to do tobe successful in public accounting, which
(02:21):
as anybody knows there's a lot of hours.
Those are 60, 70 hour weeks,fairly consistently, especially
early in your career.
And when the kids were with me, though,it allowed me a little bit of flexibility,
especially in the late nineties, early2000, you started to get a little bit
more flexibility to be able to workfrom home schedule, you know, plan your
(02:44):
schedule or your commutes and meetingsand meetings with clients and all of
that around the kid's schedule and such.
And I would choose clients that allowedme the flexibility to like for instance,
I had big global clients where I hadteams that were in Asia or Europe.
Well, at those work hours, I could workfrom home cause it was early in the
(03:06):
morning or really late in the evening.
And so I chose a lot of the clients thatI chose to work as well as just my career
or profession within public accounting.
And I guess I should state that Iworked both at KPMG as well as PWC.
And once the kids were old enough andwent off to college, that's when it is
(03:31):
that I decided to leave public accountingand join the gap and just go out to the
private slash, you know, public sector.
And that was a big, thatwas a big change for me.
And I have to say, actually, as muchas I loved public accounting, My public
accounting or my career, my time inpublic accounting, I did make partner
which was a fantastic personal goalfor me and professional goal for me.
(03:55):
So when I left public accounting andwent to work at The Gap, I have to say
that there was something that just likea light switch that flipped for me.
I absolutely loved really being there.
An operator within an organization.
So when I left as a partner atPressWaterhouse, I joined the GAP as
(04:19):
their controller and then was promotedto, and that was a global controller role.
So I had teams all over the world.
As well as I guess within a prettyshort couple of years was made
CAO which is far more operationalyou know, beyond just your typical
finance or controllership role whichwas a lot of fun and I loved it.
(04:42):
It's been, it's just made, you know,the sort of the second chapter of my
career so much more fun and somethingthat I really looked forward to as
well as the gap is just, you know,an incredible place to, to work.
then from there, I had been recruitedor headhunted away to an organization
called CBRE, which was a global, it'sactually the largest global asset
(05:06):
management company, real estate assetmanagement company in the world.
And I had a team of about 5, 000 peopleacross the country or across the globe.
And spent quite a bit of time travelingand you know, taking care of my teams
globally and then had an opportunityto join T Mobile that was looking to
(05:27):
do a lot more finance transformationwork, which is the type of work that
I really -started to do more CBRE.
And I thought it would just be areally great opportunity to stay
a little bit more local as wellas the job, the CBRE job was going
to require me to move to Texas.
And I really didn't want to move to Texas.
(05:49):
My whole family is here on the West coast.
And so I'm able to fly from SantaRosa, which is one of my homes or at
the time was my home before I joined.
T Mobile and fly directlyinto you know, Seattle.
So my husband and I moved to Seattle andit's been a great four years at T Mobile.
Fantastic.
(06:10):
Work with the Sprint andT Mobile integration.
And now we're working on a largeERP sort of target operating model
transformation as well that wekicked off about three years ago.
So been really challenging, a lot offun great to be on the other side of
public accounting and will probably bemy last corporate stop before I retire
(06:32):
and, Officially move on to board rolesmore, you know, full time, full time,
part time in a, retired capacity.
that's awesome.
I need to clarify one thingthat you said you had 5, 000
people on your team at CBRE.
5, 000 people.
I
And so what what's this?
What's this current scale of team mobile?
(06:52):
Okay.
5, 000 people.
Here at T Mobile, I think we'vegot maybe 1, 800 people and that's
partly some procurement supplychain folks in there as well.
And then my organization, when Ijoined, my org was About 600 people.
(07:15):
I picked up an I.
T.
Organization kicked it up to 700 people.
We've been working through a targetoperating model change, like I
mentioned before, and have actuallyset up a shared service center out in
Overland Park, which is where Sprint'scorporate headquarter had been located.
And So I've actually shifted a portionof my team to report into the leadership
(07:38):
there at the Shared Service Center.
So my team now is about 300,probably 350 folks as, as we work
through the operating model change.
So it's still a, it's stilla fairly large organization.
I do have quite a bit of finance IT Soit's a little bit different than, you
(08:00):
know, your typical chief accountingofficer role, or as people think
around these numbers relativelycasually, like 5000 people is larger
than many towns that people grew up in.
You know, 3 or 4 or 600 people are aresignificantly larger than many companies.
Okay.
That people work at from top to bottom.
(08:21):
So it's really interesting and sort ofon that note, you know, the bulk of your
career has been in larger organizationsand, you know, public accounting, not
withstanding really I kind of characterizelarger corporate organizations
like gap or CBRE or T Mobile.
Have you had a, a knack for managinglarge team, or is that a muscle that
(08:42):
you have had to work on over the years?
And if so.
You know, what are the types ofthings that you did and what would
you encourage people to focus onto build that professional muscle?
Such a wonderful, thoughtful question.
It's probably all of the above.
Within public accounting, like I'dmentioned, I did have teams that I
(09:06):
worked with across the globe and again,growing up in public accounting, you're
very much focused on your entire team.
You're part of a broader organization.
But that teaming mentality is so strongand is something that I really thrived in.
(09:27):
I really loved being a part of theteam and ensuring that the team
dynamics was high functioning.
So that was something that I probablydeveloped more in public accounting than
when I went out into the private sector,far more I guess I'm just wired that way.
So one, I've been blessed to,no matter where I've been.
(09:49):
You know, I was working, I hadjust phenomenally talented teams
that I acquired and was hired into.
So very thankful for that.
So I think my muscle or my maybe secretpower is going into an organization
quickly trying to assess the team dynamicsas well as just the political energy
(10:12):
and culture within an organization andtrying to figure out how do we put, how
do we set team members up for success?
What are certain individuals strengthsand what are their weaknesses?
And really honing in on where it isthat people were really strong and
making sure that as a complete team, youknow, We had a really high functioning
(10:32):
team and that requires an incredibleamount of diverse thought, experience,
training, background you know, differentworking styles and all of that.
So, you know, if you had, if I had anysort of toxic fixed mindset people, I
would tend to Find better or differentroles for them if, if their approach was
(10:58):
not working for what it is that we asa team or as an enterprise needed and
then just ensure that we really broughtin you know, strong, capable people to
help accentuate the, the existing teams.
I would say a lot of my success is verymuch based on just the incredibly talented
people that I have been able and beenfortunate to work with over the years.
(11:22):
You're probably not givingyourself near enough credit, but
we'll leave it at that for sure.
So, you know, I have been doingwhat I do for a long, long time.
And which means I've met.
Hundreds and thousands of people overthe years, and it would be it would
be untrue to say that I remembereverybody very well and remember all
(11:44):
the different places where I wouldhave run into people, but I do remember
meeting you for the first time.
So that's stuck.
That really sticks out as, youknow, one of the, you know, the
highlights of my professional career.
Do you recall where that was?
Well, I believe, well, was it a restaurantthere on the Embarcadero in San Francisco?
I think, was it Perry's?
Well done.
(12:06):
Very well done.
We,
Well, we had a blast.
We laughed so hard.
We had a great time.
It was a
It was very convenient.
It's actually kind of fun to meetpeople at places, which, you know,
zoom doesn't allow obviously so muchbecause I find that it kind of earmarks.
you know, you know, whether the smellsof the sun or the location of the
(12:27):
chairs or whatever really helps tokind of galvanize where you meet folks.
But it's sort of slightly besidethe point other than it was a
very memorable meeting for me.
And I recall very specificallythinking to myself, and this goes
back 12, 13, 14 years ago that Ihaven't met a lot of people like you.
And why I say that is it was kind of near.
(12:50):
The time in the marketplace where a VPcontroller role was being elevated to
chief accounting officer in the market.
And there weren't a ton of chiefaccounting officers, particularly in the
Bay Area, I guess I would say, and becausethere weren't a lot of you in the Bay
Area, I remember being terribly impressed.
And I won't ask you what you thought ofme, but you know, you've been through
(13:13):
this evolution of controller to C.
A.
O.
And I guess I'd like you for you tokind of comment on your view of the
importance of that within the C.
F.
O.
S.
Organizational structure.
Sure.
Absolutely.
Well, well, thank you.
That is very kind of you.
(13:34):
And I too remember our meetingbecause like I mentioned I just
remember we had a great time.
And there was lots of laughter.
And obviously we've stayed connectedthis what last decade, decade and a half.
So what's.
Interesting.
And I sort of touched on it earlier.
I do think as, you know, the businessworld changes industries change
(14:01):
roles within organizations change.
I, I left public accounting, went intoyour typical global controller role,
quickly found The, I guess the level ofchange within our environment, especially
(14:21):
from an IT perspective and as well asour supply chain perspective, sort of
back a lot of your back office functionsoperationally, how things get done,
how quickly things get done the immenseamount or need of of transformation
sort of in that back office functionto really meet the current day, you
(14:43):
know, pressures of whether it was likeat the Gap, you know, moving from a
predominantly retail footprint to amore of an online present presence to
compete with all of the online retailers.
I, I found the sort of the frenetic, paceat which we had to transform back office
(15:06):
to be incredibly compelling and exciting.
And I love digging into that and workingwith my supply chain folks and my folks
and understanding how that impactedour systems and processes and such.
And so I found for myself, Iam very focused on people and
process And technologies to driveefficiencies and improvements.
(15:30):
And that's where, I guess, like I said,sort of a light switch flipped for
me and I just really dug in and gotengaged on things more operationally.
And.
That's where I think CAOs todaycan really make a big difference.
And actually, that's how it is.
I got the CAO title.
There was a new CFO that came onboard at the Gap and, you know, she
(15:53):
said, you really are operating farmore at this operational CAO level.
You know, here, here's a promotion.
Which again, then was a greatsegue over into the CAO of CBRE,
where, as you mentioned, 5, 000people, it's a lot of people.
I actually had all of the regional CFOs.
Reporting in to me, and then Ireported into the global CFO.
(16:17):
So in that role, I was deeplyembedded in the finance aspects,
the accounting aspects but moreimportantly, really the operational.
Aspects of sort of the, you know,the back office comings and goings,
and I think that most CEOs atthis point are, are probably more
focused on that to support the CFO.
(16:39):
Uh, So.
As much as I'm engaged with, youknow, a lot of the investor relations
peace and working with legal, workingwith all your business developers
for merger acquisitions and such,you've got the technical aspects
of how to account for things.
But it's also reallyunderstanding, you know, the, the.
(17:02):
I guess the way to think about it isthe SOX control premise, Sarbanes Oxley,
really forced accountants to think moreyou know, process in engineering mindset
with IT thrown over the top when IT ischanging, you know, rapidly, quarterly.
And so you just have to think You know,you just have to think differently
(17:25):
and think along the lines as your ITbrothers and sisters and work with
them to ensure that you are addressingany of the risks that this, you know,
IT transformation introduces intoyour financial reporting environment.
And how do you mitigate thatrisk and how do you ensure that
you've got, you know, the rightfolks focused on the right things.
(17:46):
Is just changed a lot.
peeling some of that back, probably somesage advice to existing controllers out
there is there's only so much muscleyou can build in your accounting chops
that if you want to be elevated withinan organization to a CAO or other, then
that, you know, being more involvedin that intersectionality between it
(18:08):
and supply chain and transformationand the other parts of the business is
is how you climb to the next level asopposed to just being a brilliant expert
around SEC issues or, or the like.
Absolutely.
Well said.
Yes, exactly.
Well, thank you very much.
So you and I are both no longerin our twenties and with a little
(18:29):
bit more experience in life.
I wonder what type of lessonsyou've learned along the way trying
to manage your professional workhealth and your personal health.
I know this is, you know, anarea of importance to you, and
I'm sure you look at things verydifferently today versus yesterday.
And I guess I'd love to take.
To get some perspective and someinsight that you can share about
(18:52):
being healthy in a demanding corporateenvironment and things that you
think about and things that you tryto do, both physically and mentally.
Yes.
Such a great question and superimportant for all of us corporate
athletes, as I like to put it.
(19:12):
If I were to, let me kindof phrase it this way.
If I were to give any advice tomy 20, 30 year old self, I would
say carve out time for sleep.
And I know that sounds kind ofcrazy, but sleep is so important
to every aspect of your day andyour mental and physical wellbeing.
(19:38):
And sleep is something thatI started to really focus on
probably about a decade ago.
And my guess is it was driven by allof the global travel that I was doing
and the fact that I was working.
really odd hours, early mornings,late evenings, you know, dealing
with global teams and such.
(19:58):
And I just was hittingburnout very quickly.
And I kept thinking, I,you know, I love my job.
I love my team.
I love my work, but I am stilljust constantly burnt out.
And you know, as I hit my thirtiesand forties, I just didn't have
the same level of energy that I didwhen I was younger and was trying
(20:20):
to understand, you know, what is itthat I could be doing differently?
So about a decade ago I reallystarted getting into this trend
that probably some of your listenersknow, but it's called biohacking.
And that is really where you juststart taking more control of your
environment around you to really helpstrengthen and sort of manage your
(20:45):
physical and mental wellbeing better.
And sleep was the first thing thatI attacked and it was incredibly
important and frankly And I'll throwthis out there recognizing this
may make some people uncomfortable.
But as I, you know, approach tomenopause and went through menopause I
was really amazed at what a differenceif my sleep was under control, if my,
(21:10):
you know, hormone balance was undercontrol if my physical, you know, I kept
up with all the physical exercise andresistance training and all of that.
I just feel so much better and Ican tackle and handle anything and
everything that life is throwing atme and certainly a lot of my travel
and somewhat frenetic hours attimes was much more easy to manage.
(21:36):
But I do really think that that'ssomething that we lose track of,
especially when we're, we're younger.
And so my advice to, to many folksout there is really getting a handle,
do some research on what you know,sleep actually does for your body.
You know, I would say at this point,I am not a big drinker anymore.
(21:58):
I recognized how much alcohol disruptedmy sleep and just how much that
would completely, you know, ruin thenext day or the next couple of days.
for me.
And so I really had to, as I, as Igot a little bit older, went through
menopause, I really started to hone inon what is it that I need to, to be more
(22:21):
optimized as a human being to reallyshow up for myself and my, my coworkers,
obviously my family and my husband.
So that's something that is just a wholenew chapter for me and something that
I focus on quite a bit and actuallyhelp others that are going through
menopause or even, you know, men thatI work with that are just trying to get
(22:43):
a handle on, on their health for fun,sort of like a side passion, health and
Are you, are you pretty vocalabout this internally at T Mobile?
You know, am I vote?
Yeah, probably.
I probably am.
You know, it's, it's a matter of tryingto balance not passing judgment on how
people live their lives because you neverwant to do that and turn people off.
(23:07):
But I do have people that will ask,you know, hey, you you know, you look
great or you've got a ton of energy orI don't know how you manage everything
that you manage and things like that.
I did for Christmas give, you know, allof my direct reports, Peter Atiyah's
Outlive book, because he's, he'ssomebody that I think just has a real
(23:28):
practical, pragmatic approach to, youknow, how to monitor and maintain, you
know, a healthy, a healthy lifestyle.
So yeah, people, people are pretty clear.
I, I don't, you know, peopleare drinking, I don't drink.
So people ask me questions aroundthat and I'll explain sort of the, my
health journey and path that I'm on.
(23:49):
So but it's, it's reallybeen life changing for me.
I asked that question because I thinkit's, it's much easier to be a vocal
SVP talking about this stuff and makingsure that people take you seriously,
that it's a really important partof life and how it, you know, how it
leads to a better work product as well.
(24:09):
It might be a lot more difficult if you're28 and busy saying yes to meetings and
yes to this and yes to that all the time.
And I.
I don't know that I have and this isn't,it's more of a statement than a question.
Like I throw it out there.
Like that must be a, that will be achallenging thing to navigate if it
was something very important to youand work was potentially part of the,
(24:31):
the way that that was being compromised
so it's a really importantconversation and I, that's where I
think people have to be incrediblythoughtful about where it is.
That they work and the companiesthat they join, what is that culture
and what are those expectations?
I will say I am really impressedby the younger generations.
(24:54):
The folks that work for me, I encouragepeople to speak up and be very clear
about what it is that they need and thebalance that they need so that they can
show up and be their best self at workas well as their best self at home.
(25:15):
I was fortunate that I had peoplethat believed in me within my
career and really supported me toensure that I was as balanced as
I, you know, could possibly be.
Probably all of the stress andpressure that I felt when I was
younger, a lot of that I put on myself.
(25:35):
And typically, if I did reach out and sortof talk with folks and say, Hey, I need
X, Y, and Z to accommodate this, or canI have some flexibility here, whatever,
I don't believe anybody ever did that.
said no to me now, whether ornot that held me back, there's
a part of me that would have toponder that question a little bit.
(25:58):
I don't believe so.
I made partner.
Maybe I would have made partner acouple of years younger if I hadn't had
kids, but my goodness, I could never.
You know, I don't regretthat trade off at all.
So, so today it's a very differentworld and I do believe that the younger
generations are much more confident inasking for what it is that they need.
(26:22):
And they're not as worried about, youknow they're just not as worried about.
How people will think about themor evaluate them which is great.
I think that's fantastic because thenyou can have a really good transparent
conversation and make sure that you've,you know, got the right, functioning team.
(26:46):
I know I keep saying that, butit's, it's incredibly important.
Otherwise you're just going to burnpeople out and people miss deadlines and
make mistakes and, and things like that.
I would just encourage folksto be very clear about what is
incredibly important to them.
Your health has to be, and now I'mgoing to sound like I'm getting on a
(27:09):
soap box here, but You have to maketime for your health and well being.
If you don't, sickness is going toforce you into a completely different,
you know, framework or mindset orlifestyle that you didn't anticipate.
Which, who knows?
(27:30):
what that can encompass.
So make sure you'retaking the steps early on.
And if you're in an environmentthat doesn't encourage that or is
actually harming your mental andphysical well being, you're in the
wrong place and it's okay to leaveand go someplace else that will.
(27:50):
And I don't believe the generations todayhave any concern and walking away from
an environment that doesn't support them.
So I'm happy to see that, that shift.
But if there's anybody out there that ishaving a problem with that, really step
back and take stock of what's important.
And I can say as I'm, you know,later in my career journey, looking
(28:16):
back, the most important thingto me is my family and my health.
And I feel very fortunate that I'vehad a career that has allowed me to
grow and reach really interesting,you know, challenging, fun positions.
But I would never have done any ofthese things if it ever jeopardized, my
(28:38):
family or my health to, to the extreme.
So however, I wish I would haveslept a lot more when I was younger.
Now you're making me wonder ifI slept well at all last night.
I'm thinking no I probably didn't.
I'm gonna need to takea little stock here.
Do you have an aura Ring?
(28:58):
no,
I have
your sleep?
no, I don't.
I have bunches of friends that do,and you know, I know it is something
that I should be thinking about.
So if anything comes out of thispodcast at all, it's one more person
saying, Derek, get your shit together.
Let's go.
(29:19):
I mean, I may just do it after this call.
So pivoting off of a very importanttopic to one that is much less
important, but one that my daughterwould probably want me to ask is T Mobile
recently Have you met Ryan Reynolds?
No, I have not.
I'm sorry to break herheart, but no, I haven't.
(29:41):
And if I did actually, I would askhim, can I please meet your wife?
Because I think Blake Lavely isjust like an amazing human being.
I would love to have acup of coffee with her.
But no, I have not met him.
I've met the team and youknow, the CEO and the CFO.
And the broader team,but I have not met him.
Only Mike Sievert has had theopportunity to hug Ryan Reynolds.
(30:05):
All right, so I've pepperedyou with a bunch of questions.
You have been gracious enough toanswer them all incredibly well.
Now we get to the point of this podcastwhere I let you ask me a question.
I don't know what it is, and so I'lldo my very best to answer as well as
I can, but you now have the stage.
(30:25):
Okay.
So first, before I ask you thequestion, I am going to say, all
right, I'm going to follow up withyou and see if you end up, you know,
purchasing a tracker to help you.
work through your sleep or monitoryour sleep and your health and just
see if that's something that you do.
(30:45):
If you do, I think you will be shockedat what that data will tell you and
how easy it is to just tweak littlethings here and there to feel better.
If that is something that is reallyimportant to you, I don't know, because
we haven't had a conversation trulyaround you know, a deep conversation
around that, but would love todo that at some point with you.
Okay, putting that aside, justletting you know, I'm going to annoy
(31:08):
you and be bothering you for that.
But because that'll be fun.
But no.
So I'm curious.
I mean, I love that you'redoing these podcasts.
I think it's a lot of fun andthey're great to listen to.
And I'm curious, whatpodcast is your favorite?
Okay.
You're going to hate this answer.
And I think everybody out thereis going to hate it as well.
(31:30):
I don't listen to podcasts.
What?
What do you mean?
I know.
And I, that is the response that Iget from everybody because everybody
has a favorite podcast and everybodysays, Derek, you should listen to this.
Derek, you should listen to that.
This is a great one.
And I know they're all right.
I am a hundred percent certain of it.
And I know I'm also missing out.
(31:51):
On opportunities to be smarter and moreengaged in lots of different things.
And between that and the aura ring,I've got two things to do for sure.
And you'll be able to follow up withme on both of those, including a
recommendation of your favorite podcast.
Which I will promise you, I willlisten to at least one, probably more.
(32:15):
So if that's the case, maybe this willmake it a little bit easier for you
to, you know, crack the podcast nut.
And that is check out smart lists.
It's hysterical.
It's really funny.
You will enjoy listening to them.
It's Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, WillArnett, and they just Yes For you know
(32:37):
an hour And they'll bring in they'llbring in a surprise guest to every
episode One person brings in you knowtalent and surprises the other two
and then they have this conversation.
It's hysterical It's a lot of fun.
You'll you'll enjoy listening to itI mean, there's so many podcasts out
there that are so educational andinformative and such and I have a whole
(32:59):
You List as long as my arm that I'mhappy to share with you some other time.
But smartless is just super fun.
I think you would love it.
I knowing you you'd have
I have listened to a crime junkie onethat my daughter put me on to a couple
different times on a couple road trips,which are, which are very fun to listen
to, but I haven't, you know, I haven'tmade them a part of my my daily, weekly
(33:22):
intake of information, but I, youknow, I will pivot off of your question
and answer the, what was my favoritepodcast that I've done, even though you
didn't ask that question specifically.
The first thing I'll say is.
Everyone's been great.
Who is your favorite child?
They're all my favorite.
I don't love anybody more.
However, comma I generally make referenceto one that I did with Carrie Walsh.
(33:47):
One because she was so graciousto do it without Without even a
second of, of hesitation and Ididn't even know her that well.
--- And I'm, I'm a volleyball dad so I kindof did dig the whole volleyball scene.
So that was, that was alot of fun to talk to her.
That's excellent.
Well, you did a great job too, right?
It takes, it does.
(34:08):
It's, it takes a lot to trust the personthat's asking the questions and to
share, you know, your stories and such.
So well done.
Good
Well, and you, you've talkedabout your teams being so
important as part of your success.
I think if you pick people who areinteresting and awesome and at least
as good, if not better than youare, then you're probably going to
(34:29):
end up with a pretty good output.
So I've been very fortunate andlook forward to this one hitting
hitting the podcast world.
And, and on that note,I get to set you free.
Thank you.
You've been awesome.
I appreciate your time.
Thank you for being an advocate of mineprofessionally as well on this end and
saying good things about me over theyears and being always so responsive.
(34:50):
So you are absolutely your careertrajectory is an inspiration and you
are personally an inspiration as well.
So really, really
you.
the time there.
Thank you so much.
And I'm right back at you.
Hello, everyone.
(00:00):
My name is Derek DeWinter, andwelcome to our listeners who are
tuning into the DeWinter Difference,an audio podcast where I spend
a bit of time with incredibleexecutives I've known for years.
And you get to listen in.
I hope that our conversations are unique,fun, insightful, short enough, keep your
attention, but long enough to listenon the way from point A to point B.
Our goal is to have fun, sharing a fewtakeaways that you can apply in your
(00:23):
own career, life, and relationships.
Today, you get to listen into aconversation between yours truly and
Dara Pizzano, SVP and CAO of T Mobile.
As if being the chief accountingofficer of an 80 billion company with
a 200 billion market cap wasn't enough,Dara is also on the board of Lulu's,
Self Financial, and Girls on the Run.
(00:45):
Dara, I really appreciate youtolerating me these last dozen
or so years and joining us today.
Thank you.
Thank you very much for the invite.
I appreciate it.
It's great to catch up with you.
Excellent.
So for our listeners, can you share alittle bit about your career progression
as a baseline and a couple of professionalor personal drivers that led you
ultimately to where you are at T Mobile?
(01:07):
Essentially a quick scrollthrough your LinkedIn profile.
So it's a great question.
Actually, you know, I would sayI'll start with the drivers.
The driver and, and drivers Ishould say in my professional
career has been a hundred percentmy family and my family situation.
So I was married young and had twokids and went through a divorce at 27.
(01:32):
And I would say that that really.
Sort of outlined or framed up howit is that I approached my career.
I found actually public accountingsurprisingly enough to be very
accommodating for me and providingme the flexibility that I needed to
raise my kids as a single parent.
Although I will say that Ihad worked really hard with
(01:56):
my ex husband to co parent.
And what our divorce.
allowed for me, which is going to soundvery strange, but It allowed me between
the divorce and public accounting.
When my kids were with their father itwas really easy for me to just work a lot
and do what it is that I needed to do tobe successful in public accounting, which
(02:21):
as anybody knows there's a lot of hours.
Those are 60, 70 hour weeks,fairly consistently, especially
early in your career.
And when the kids were with me, though,it allowed me a little bit of flexibility,
especially in the late nineties, early2000, you started to get a little bit
more flexibility to be able to workfrom home schedule, you know, plan your
(02:44):
schedule or your commutes and meetingsand meetings with clients and all of
that around the kid's schedule and such.
And I would choose clients that allowedme the flexibility to like for instance,
I had big global clients where I hadteams that were in Asia or Europe.
Well, at those work hours, I could workfrom home cause it was early in the
(03:06):
morning or really late in the evening.
And so I chose a lot of the clients thatI chose to work as well as just my career
or profession within public accounting.
And I guess I should state that Iworked both at KPMG as well as PWC.
And once the kids were old enough andwent off to college, that's when it is
(03:31):
that I decided to leave public accountingand join the gap and just go out to the
private slash, you know, public sector.
And that was a big, thatwas a big change for me.
And I have to say, actually, as muchas I loved public accounting, My public
accounting or my career, my time inpublic accounting, I did make partner
which was a fantastic personal goalfor me and professional goal for me.
(03:55):
So when I left public accounting andwent to work at The Gap, I have to say
that there was something that just likea light switch that flipped for me.
I absolutely loved really being there.
An operator within an organization.
So when I left as a partner atPressWaterhouse, I joined the GAP as
(04:19):
their controller and then was promotedto, and that was a global controller role.
So I had teams all over the world.
As well as I guess within a prettyshort couple of years was made
CAO which is far more operationalyou know, beyond just your typical
finance or controllership role whichwas a lot of fun and I loved it.
(04:42):
It's been, it's just made, you know,the sort of the second chapter of my
career so much more fun and somethingthat I really looked forward to as
well as the gap is just, you know,an incredible place to, to work.
then from there, I had been recruitedor headhunted away to an organization
called CBRE, which was a global, it'sactually the largest global asset
(05:06):
management company, real estate assetmanagement company in the world.
And I had a team of about 5, 000 peopleacross the country or across the globe.
And spent quite a bit of time travelingand you know, taking care of my teams
globally and then had an opportunityto join T Mobile that was looking to
(05:27):
do a lot more finance transformationwork, which is the type of work that
I really -started to do more CBRE.
And I thought it would just be areally great opportunity to stay
a little bit more local as wellas the job, the CBRE job was going
to require me to move to Texas.
And I really didn't want to move to Texas.
(05:49):
My whole family is here on the West coast.
And so I'm able to fly from SantaRosa, which is one of my homes or at
the time was my home before I joined.
T Mobile and fly directlyinto you know, Seattle.
So my husband and I moved to Seattle andit's been a great four years at T Mobile.
Fantastic.
(06:10):
Work with the Sprint andT Mobile integration.
And now we're working on a largeERP sort of target operating model
transformation as well that wekicked off about three years ago.
So been really challenging, a lot offun great to be on the other side of
public accounting and will probably bemy last corporate stop before I retire
(06:32):
and, Officially move on to board rolesmore, you know, full time, full time,
part time in a, retired capacity.
that's awesome.
I need to clarify one thingthat you said you had 5, 000
people on your team at CBRE.
5, 000 people.
I
And so what what's this?
What's this current scale of team mobile?
(06:52):
Okay.
5, 000 people.
Here at T Mobile, I think we'vegot maybe 1, 800 people and that's
partly some procurement supplychain folks in there as well.
And then my organization, when Ijoined, my org was About 600 people.
(07:15):
I picked up an I.
T.
Organization kicked it up to 700 people.
We've been working through a targetoperating model change, like I
mentioned before, and have actuallyset up a shared service center out in
Overland Park, which is where Sprint'scorporate headquarter had been located.
And So I've actually shifted a portionof my team to report into the leadership
(07:38):
there at the Shared Service Center.
So my team now is about 300,probably 350 folks as, as we work
through the operating model change.
So it's still a, it's stilla fairly large organization.
I do have quite a bit of finance IT Soit's a little bit different than, you
(08:00):
know, your typical chief accountingofficer role, or as people think
around these numbers relativelycasually, like 5000 people is larger
than many towns that people grew up in.
You know, 3 or 4 or 600 people are aresignificantly larger than many companies.
Okay.
That people work at from top to bottom.
(08:21):
So it's really interesting and sort ofon that note, you know, the bulk of your
career has been in larger organizationsand, you know, public accounting, not
withstanding really I kind of characterizelarger corporate organizations
like gap or CBRE or T Mobile.
Have you had a, a knack for managinglarge team, or is that a muscle that
(08:42):
you have had to work on over the years?
And if so.
You know, what are the types ofthings that you did and what would
you encourage people to focus onto build that professional muscle?
Such a wonderful, thoughtful question.
It's probably all of the above.
Within public accounting, like I'dmentioned, I did have teams that I
(09:06):
worked with across the globe and again,growing up in public accounting, you're
very much focused on your entire team.
You're part of a broader organization.
But that teaming mentality is so strongand is something that I really thrived in.
(09:27):
I really loved being a part of theteam and ensuring that the team
dynamics was high functioning.
So that was something that I probablydeveloped more in public accounting than
when I went out into the private sector,far more I guess I'm just wired that way.
So one, I've been blessed to,no matter where I've been.
(09:49):
You know, I was working, I hadjust phenomenally talented teams
that I acquired and was hired into.
So very thankful for that.
So I think my muscle or my maybe secretpower is going into an organization
quickly trying to assess the team dynamicsas well as just the political energy
(10:12):
and culture within an organization andtrying to figure out how do we put, how
do we set team members up for success?
What are certain individuals strengthsand what are their weaknesses?
And really honing in on where it isthat people were really strong and
making sure that as a complete team, youknow, We had a really high functioning
(10:32):
team and that requires an incredibleamount of diverse thought, experience,
training, background you know, differentworking styles and all of that.
So, you know, if you had, if I had anysort of toxic fixed mindset people, I
would tend to Find better or differentroles for them if, if their approach was
(10:58):
not working for what it is that we asa team or as an enterprise needed and
then just ensure that we really broughtin you know, strong, capable people to
help accentuate the, the existing teams.
I would say a lot of my success is verymuch based on just the incredibly talented
people that I have been able and beenfortunate to work with over the years.
(11:22):
You're probably not givingyourself near enough credit, but
we'll leave it at that for sure.
So, you know, I have been doingwhat I do for a long, long time.
And which means I've met.
Hundreds and thousands of people overthe years, and it would be it would
be untrue to say that I remembereverybody very well and remember all
(11:44):
the different places where I wouldhave run into people, but I do remember
meeting you for the first time.
So that's stuck.
That really sticks out as, youknow, one of the, you know, the
highlights of my professional career.
Do you recall where that was?
Well, I believe, well, was it a restaurantthere on the Embarcadero in San Francisco?
I think, was it Perry's?
Well done.
(12:06):
Very well done.
We,
Well, we had a blast.
We laughed so hard.
We had a great time.
It was a
It was very convenient.
It's actually kind of fun to meetpeople at places, which, you know,
zoom doesn't allow obviously so muchbecause I find that it kind of earmarks.
you know, you know, whether the smellsof the sun or the location of the
(12:27):
chairs or whatever really helps tokind of galvanize where you meet folks.
But it's sort of slightly besidethe point other than it was a
very memorable meeting for me.
And I recall very specificallythinking to myself, and this goes
back 12, 13, 14 years ago that Ihaven't met a lot of people like you.
And why I say that is it was kind of near.
(12:50):
The time in the marketplace where a VPcontroller role was being elevated to
chief accounting officer in the market.
And there weren't a ton of chiefaccounting officers, particularly in the
Bay Area, I guess I would say, and becausethere weren't a lot of you in the Bay
Area, I remember being terribly impressed.
And I won't ask you what you thought ofme, but you know, you've been through
(13:13):
this evolution of controller to C.
A.
O.
And I guess I'd like you for you tokind of comment on your view of the
importance of that within the C.
F.
O.
S.
Organizational structure.
Sure.
Absolutely.
Well, well, thank you.
That is very kind of you.
(13:34):
And I too remember our meetingbecause like I mentioned I just
remember we had a great time.
And there was lots of laughter.
And obviously we've stayed connectedthis what last decade, decade and a half.
So what's.
Interesting.
And I sort of touched on it earlier.
I do think as, you know, the businessworld changes industries change
(14:01):
roles within organizations change.
I, I left public accounting, went intoyour typical global controller role,
quickly found The, I guess the level ofchange within our environment, especially
(14:21):
from an IT perspective and as well asour supply chain perspective, sort of
back a lot of your back office functionsoperationally, how things get done,
how quickly things get done the immenseamount or need of of transformation
sort of in that back office functionto really meet the current day, you
(14:43):
know, pressures of whether it was likeat the Gap, you know, moving from a
predominantly retail footprint to amore of an online present presence to
compete with all of the online retailers.
I, I found the sort of the frenetic, paceat which we had to transform back office
(15:06):
to be incredibly compelling and exciting.
And I love digging into that and workingwith my supply chain folks and my folks
and understanding how that impactedour systems and processes and such.
And so I found for myself, Iam very focused on people and
process And technologies to driveefficiencies and improvements.
(15:30):
And that's where, I guess, like I said,sort of a light switch flipped for
me and I just really dug in and gotengaged on things more operationally.
And.
That's where I think CAOs todaycan really make a big difference.
And actually, that's how it is.
I got the CAO title.
There was a new CFO that came onboard at the Gap and, you know, she
(15:53):
said, you really are operating farmore at this operational CAO level.
You know, here, here's a promotion.
Which again, then was a greatsegue over into the CAO of CBRE,
where, as you mentioned, 5, 000people, it's a lot of people.
I actually had all of the regional CFOs.
Reporting in to me, and then Ireported into the global CFO.
(16:17):
So in that role, I was deeplyembedded in the finance aspects,
the accounting aspects but moreimportantly, really the operational.
Aspects of sort of the, you know,the back office comings and goings,
and I think that most CEOs atthis point are, are probably more
focused on that to support the CFO.
(16:39):
Uh, So.
As much as I'm engaged with, youknow, a lot of the investor relations
peace and working with legal, workingwith all your business developers
for merger acquisitions and such,you've got the technical aspects
of how to account for things.
But it's also reallyunderstanding, you know, the, the.
(17:02):
I guess the way to think about it isthe SOX control premise, Sarbanes Oxley,
really forced accountants to think moreyou know, process in engineering mindset
with IT thrown over the top when IT ischanging, you know, rapidly, quarterly.
And so you just have to think You know,you just have to think differently
(17:25):
and think along the lines as your ITbrothers and sisters and work with
them to ensure that you are addressingany of the risks that this, you know,
IT transformation introduces intoyour financial reporting environment.
And how do you mitigate thatrisk and how do you ensure that
you've got, you know, the rightfolks focused on the right things.
(17:46):
Is just changed a lot.
peeling some of that back, probably somesage advice to existing controllers out
there is there's only so much muscleyou can build in your accounting chops
that if you want to be elevated withinan organization to a CAO or other, then
that, you know, being more involvedin that intersectionality between it
(18:08):
and supply chain and transformationand the other parts of the business is
is how you climb to the next level asopposed to just being a brilliant expert
around SEC issues or, or the like.
Absolutely.
Well said.
Yes, exactly.
Well, thank you very much.
So you and I are both no longerin our twenties and with a little
(18:29):
bit more experience in life.
I wonder what type of lessonsyou've learned along the way trying
to manage your professional workhealth and your personal health.
I know this is, you know, anarea of importance to you, and
I'm sure you look at things verydifferently today versus yesterday.
And I guess I'd love to take.
To get some perspective and someinsight that you can share about
(18:52):
being healthy in a demanding corporateenvironment and things that you
think about and things that you tryto do, both physically and mentally.
Yes.
Such a great question and superimportant for all of us corporate
athletes, as I like to put it.
(19:12):
If I were to, let me kindof phrase it this way.
If I were to give any advice tomy 20, 30 year old self, I would
say carve out time for sleep.
And I know that sounds kind ofcrazy, but sleep is so important
to every aspect of your day andyour mental and physical wellbeing.
(19:38):
And sleep is something thatI started to really focus on
probably about a decade ago.
And my guess is it was driven by allof the global travel that I was doing
and the fact that I was working.
really odd hours, early mornings,late evenings, you know, dealing
with global teams and such.
(19:58):
And I just was hittingburnout very quickly.
And I kept thinking, I,you know, I love my job.
I love my team.
I love my work, but I am stilljust constantly burnt out.
And you know, as I hit my thirtiesand forties, I just didn't have
the same level of energy that I didwhen I was younger and was trying
(20:20):
to understand, you know, what is itthat I could be doing differently?
So about a decade ago I reallystarted getting into this trend
that probably some of your listenersknow, but it's called biohacking.
And that is really where you juststart taking more control of your
environment around you to really helpstrengthen and sort of manage your
(20:45):
physical and mental wellbeing better.
And sleep was the first thing thatI attacked and it was incredibly
important and frankly And I'll throwthis out there recognizing this
may make some people uncomfortable.
But as I, you know, approach tomenopause and went through menopause I
was really amazed at what a differenceif my sleep was under control, if my,
(21:10):
you know, hormone balance was undercontrol if my physical, you know, I kept
up with all the physical exercise andresistance training and all of that.
I just feel so much better and Ican tackle and handle anything and
everything that life is throwing atme and certainly a lot of my travel
and somewhat frenetic hours attimes was much more easy to manage.
(21:36):
But I do really think that that'ssomething that we lose track of,
especially when we're, we're younger.
And so my advice to, to many folksout there is really getting a handle,
do some research on what you know,sleep actually does for your body.
You know, I would say at this point,I am not a big drinker anymore.
(21:58):
I recognized how much alcohol disruptedmy sleep and just how much that
would completely, you know, ruin thenext day or the next couple of days.
for me.
And so I really had to, as I, as Igot a little bit older, went through
menopause, I really started to hone inon what is it that I need to, to be more
(22:21):
optimized as a human being to reallyshow up for myself and my, my coworkers,
obviously my family and my husband.
So that's something that is just a wholenew chapter for me and something that
I focus on quite a bit and actuallyhelp others that are going through
menopause or even, you know, men thatI work with that are just trying to get
(22:43):
a handle on, on their health for fun,sort of like a side passion, health and
Are you, are you pretty vocalabout this internally at T Mobile?
You know, am I vote?
Yeah, probably.
I probably am.
You know, it's, it's a matter of tryingto balance not passing judgment on how
people live their lives because you neverwant to do that and turn people off.
(23:07):
But I do have people that will ask,you know, hey, you you know, you look
great or you've got a ton of energy orI don't know how you manage everything
that you manage and things like that.
I did for Christmas give, you know, allof my direct reports, Peter Atiyah's
Outlive book, because he's, he'ssomebody that I think just has a real
(23:28):
practical, pragmatic approach to, youknow, how to monitor and maintain, you
know, a healthy, a healthy lifestyle.
So yeah, people, people are pretty clear.
I, I don't, you know, peopleare drinking, I don't drink.
So people ask me questions aroundthat and I'll explain sort of the, my
health journey and path that I'm on.
(23:49):
So but it's, it's reallybeen life changing for me.
I asked that question because I thinkit's, it's much easier to be a vocal
SVP talking about this stuff and makingsure that people take you seriously,
that it's a really important partof life and how it, you know, how it
leads to a better work product as well.
(24:09):
It might be a lot more difficult if you're28 and busy saying yes to meetings and
yes to this and yes to that all the time.
And I.
I don't know that I have and this isn't,it's more of a statement than a question.
Like I throw it out there.
Like that must be a, that will be achallenging thing to navigate if it
was something very important to youand work was potentially part of the,
(24:31):
the way that that was being compromised
so it's a really importantconversation and I, that's where I
think people have to be incrediblythoughtful about where it is.
That they work and the companiesthat they join, what is that culture
and what are those expectations?
I will say I am really impressedby the younger generations.
(24:54):
The folks that work for me, I encouragepeople to speak up and be very clear
about what it is that they need and thebalance that they need so that they can
show up and be their best self at workas well as their best self at home.
(25:15):
I was fortunate that I had peoplethat believed in me within my
career and really supported me toensure that I was as balanced as
I, you know, could possibly be.
Probably all of the stress andpressure that I felt when I was
younger, a lot of that I put on myself.
(25:35):
And typically, if I did reach out and sortof talk with folks and say, Hey, I need
X, Y, and Z to accommodate this, or canI have some flexibility here, whatever,
I don't believe anybody ever did that.
said no to me now, whether ornot that held me back, there's
a part of me that would have toponder that question a little bit.
(25:58):
I don't believe so.
I made partner.
Maybe I would have made partner acouple of years younger if I hadn't had
kids, but my goodness, I could never.
You know, I don't regretthat trade off at all.
So, so today it's a very differentworld and I do believe that the younger
generations are much more confident inasking for what it is that they need.
(26:22):
And they're not as worried about, youknow they're just not as worried about.
How people will think about themor evaluate them which is great.
I think that's fantastic because thenyou can have a really good transparent
conversation and make sure that you've,you know, got the right, functioning team.
(26:46):
I know I keep saying that, butit's, it's incredibly important.
Otherwise you're just going to burnpeople out and people miss deadlines and
make mistakes and, and things like that.
I would just encourage folksto be very clear about what is
incredibly important to them.
Your health has to be, and now I'mgoing to sound like I'm getting on a
(27:09):
soap box here, but You have to maketime for your health and well being.
If you don't, sickness is going toforce you into a completely different,
you know, framework or mindset orlifestyle that you didn't anticipate.
Which, who knows?
(27:30):
what that can encompass.
So make sure you'retaking the steps early on.
And if you're in an environmentthat doesn't encourage that or is
actually harming your mental andphysical well being, you're in the
wrong place and it's okay to leaveand go someplace else that will.
(27:50):
And I don't believe the generations todayhave any concern and walking away from
an environment that doesn't support them.
So I'm happy to see that, that shift.
But if there's anybody out there that ishaving a problem with that, really step
back and take stock of what's important.
And I can say as I'm, you know,later in my career journey, looking
(28:16):
back, the most important thingto me is my family and my health.
And I feel very fortunate that I'vehad a career that has allowed me to
grow and reach really interesting,you know, challenging, fun positions.
But I would never have done any ofthese things if it ever jeopardized, my
(28:38):
family or my health to, to the extreme.
So however, I wish I would haveslept a lot more when I was younger.
Now you're making me wonder ifI slept well at all last night.
I'm thinking no I probably didn't.
I'm gonna need to takea little stock here.
Do you have an aura Ring?
(28:58):
no,
I have
your sleep?
no, I don't.
I have bunches of friends that do,and you know, I know it is something
that I should be thinking about.
So if anything comes out of thispodcast at all, it's one more person
saying, Derek, get your shit together.
Let's go.
(29:19):
I mean, I may just do it after this call.
So pivoting off of a very importanttopic to one that is much less
important, but one that my daughterwould probably want me to ask is T Mobile
recently Have you met Ryan Reynolds?
No, I have not.
I'm sorry to break herheart, but no, I haven't.
(29:41):
And if I did actually, I would askhim, can I please meet your wife?
Because I think Blake Lavely isjust like an amazing human being.
I would love to have acup of coffee with her.
But no, I have not met him.
I've met the team and youknow, the CEO and the CFO.
And the broader team,but I have not met him.
Only Mike Sievert has had theopportunity to hug Ryan Reynolds.
(30:05):
All right, so I've pepperedyou with a bunch of questions.
You have been gracious enough toanswer them all incredibly well.
Now we get to the point of this podcastwhere I let you ask me a question.
I don't know what it is, and so I'lldo my very best to answer as well as
I can, but you now have the stage.
(30:25):
Okay.
So first, before I ask you thequestion, I am going to say, all
right, I'm going to follow up withyou and see if you end up, you know,
purchasing a tracker to help you.
work through your sleep or monitoryour sleep and your health and just
see if that's something that you do.
(30:45):
If you do, I think you will be shockedat what that data will tell you and
how easy it is to just tweak littlethings here and there to feel better.
If that is something that is reallyimportant to you, I don't know, because
we haven't had a conversation trulyaround you know, a deep conversation
around that, but would love todo that at some point with you.
Okay, putting that aside, justletting you know, I'm going to annoy
(31:08):
you and be bothering you for that.
But because that'll be fun.
But no.
So I'm curious.
I mean, I love that you'redoing these podcasts.
I think it's a lot of fun andthey're great to listen to.
And I'm curious, whatpodcast is your favorite?
Okay.
You're going to hate this answer.
And I think everybody out thereis going to hate it as well.
(31:30):
I don't listen to podcasts.
What?
What do you mean?
I know.
And I, that is the response that Iget from everybody because everybody
has a favorite podcast and everybodysays, Derek, you should listen to this.
Derek, you should listen to that.
This is a great one.
And I know they're all right.
I am a hundred percent certain of it.
And I know I'm also missing out.
(31:51):
On opportunities to be smarter and moreengaged in lots of different things.
And between that and the aura ring,I've got two things to do for sure.
And you'll be able to follow up withme on both of those, including a
recommendation of your favorite podcast.
Which I will promise you, I willlisten to at least one, probably more.
(32:15):
So if that's the case, maybe this willmake it a little bit easier for you
to, you know, crack the podcast nut.
And that is check out smart lists.
It's hysterical.
It's really funny.
You will enjoy listening to them.
It's Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, WillArnett, and they just Yes For you know
(32:37):
an hour And they'll bring in they'llbring in a surprise guest to every
episode One person brings in you knowtalent and surprises the other two
and then they have this conversation.
It's hysterical It's a lot of fun.
You'll you'll enjoy listening to itI mean, there's so many podcasts out
there that are so educational andinformative and such and I have a whole
(32:59):
You List as long as my arm that I'mhappy to share with you some other time.
But smartless is just super fun.
I think you would love it.
I knowing you you'd have
I have listened to a crime junkie onethat my daughter put me on to a couple
different times on a couple road trips,which are, which are very fun to listen
to, but I haven't, you know, I haven'tmade them a part of my my daily, weekly
(33:22):
intake of information, but I, youknow, I will pivot off of your question
and answer the, what was my favoritepodcast that I've done, even though you
didn't ask that question specifically.
The first thing I'll say is.
Everyone's been great.
Who is your favorite child?
They're all my favorite.
I don't love anybody more.
However, comma I generally make referenceto one that I did with Carrie Walsh.
(33:47):
One because she was so graciousto do it without Without even a
second of, of hesitation and Ididn't even know her that well.
--- And I'm, I'm a volleyball dad so I kindof did dig the whole volleyball scene.
So that was, that was alot of fun to talk to her.
That's excellent.
Well, you did a great job too, right?
It takes, it does.
(34:08):
It's, it takes a lot to trust the personthat's asking the questions and to
share, you know, your stories and such.
So well done.
Good
Well, and you, you've talkedabout your teams being so
important as part of your success.
I think if you pick people who areinteresting and awesome and at least
as good, if not better than youare, then you're probably going to
(34:29):
end up with a pretty good output.
So I've been very fortunate andlook forward to this one hitting
hitting the podcast world.
And, and on that note,I get to set you free.
Thank you.
You've been awesome.
I appreciate your time.
Thank you for being an advocate of mineprofessionally as well on this end and
saying good things about me over theyears and being always so responsive.
(34:50):
So you are absolutely your careertrajectory is an inspiration and you
are personally an inspiration as well.
So really, really
you.
the time there.
Thank you so much.
And I'm right back at you.
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