February 16, 2025 • 13 mins
Friederike Fabritius brings her expertise to the topic of introversion, providing insights valuable to introverts and extroverts alike. She discusses the neuroscience behind introversion and extroversion, society's bias towards extroverts, and practical tips for creating an inclusive workplace. Key points include the unique strengths of introverts, such as intrinsic motivation, resistance to groupthink, and deep intellectual engagement. She shares applicable strategies to make work environments more introvert-friendly - a benefit to both introverts and extroverts.
00:51 Understanding Introversion and Extroversion
02:18 The Strengths of Introverts
04:04 Brain Differences Between Introverts and Extroverts
05:22 Insights on Introversion
07:21 Creating an Introvert-Friendly Workplace
09:50 Practical Tips
12:24 The Importance of Silence and Solitude
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Hello, my name is Friederike Fabritius.
Welcome to my podcast.
Today we're going tospeak about introversion.
And this will be useful for you both,whether you're an introvert, or an
extrovert, or maybe an ambivert.
Regardless of where you fall on thatspectrum, this is going to be useful
(00:26):
to you because we're going to talkboth a little bit about the underlying
neuroscience of introversion andextroversion, but also things you can do
so that both introverts and extrovertscan work better together or individually.
So stay tuned.
(00:46):
This is not just a lectureabout introversion.
You're going to benefit fromthis regardless of where
you fall on that spectrum.
There is a bias in societytowards extroversion.
People think that people who areextroverted are smarter because they
talk more, and then we tend to think thatthey're smart just because they talk more.
So that's a good rule.
(01:07):
If you want to appearsmart, just talk a lot.
Not sure that's good advice, butthat's how people seem to perceive you.
The more you talk, the morepeople believe that you have
something interesting to say.
And that's the problem with introverts.
They often only speak whenthey do have something to say.
So they are often not appreciated tothe full extent of their abilities.
(01:30):
Actually, introverts have a thickergray matter in their prefrontal
cortex compared to extroverts.
This means they tend to think more.
Those areas for planning, thinking,reflection are more developed.
And they tend to show more activityin the frontal lobes of the brain,
(01:51):
even when they're doing nothing.
So in an introvert brain, there'salways something going on.
And, that's a plus because youspend a lot of time thinking.
I'm not here to bash extroverts,so don't get the wrong idea.
I just think a lot has been saidabout extroverts, so today I'm
going to talk about introverts.
It's more about sheddinglight on something that
(02:13):
people don't know much about.
So for example, with introverts,I think one key skill is
that they put in the hours.
For many areas in life, youneed to practice to get better.
You need to stay focused.
And that's something introverts excel in.
They put in the hours.
They stay focused on the topic.
(02:34):
They rely less on externalrewards and social recognition.
They often have high levelsof intrinsic motivation.
So these are really valuable people.
And take this with a grain of salt,but research has shown that a lot
of gifted people are introverted.
(02:54):
So in a company, if you create anenvironment where everybody has
to be social all the time, go toall these dinners and network and
be extroverted, you're probablygoing to alienate your top talent.
They will leave.
They won't be drainedlike this all the time.
So if you really want to have smartpeople in your company, I think you
(03:15):
would benefit from also accommodatingpeople who are not interested in all the
office gossip and, social activities.
Another interesting fact about introvertsis that they tend to be less influenced
by groupthink and social pressure.
So when you have a group situationwhere everybody follows the leader
(03:40):
or does things that are not compliantor illegal, it's most likely that
an introvert is going to stepup and say like, Oh, I disagree.
Because they tend to follow moreof their inner compass and care
less about what other people think.
So that's another asset thatintroverts can bring to the workplace.
When we think about what happens inthe brain for introverted people,
(04:04):
we can find a difference in theascending reticular activating system.
Introverts are justmore easily stimulated.
So for example, in a socialsituation, they will release
more dopamine more quickly and besatisfied, so to say, more quickly.
introverts are juststimulated more easily.
(04:26):
So they require less external socializingand stimulation to experience the
same amount of pleasure and theyget overstimulated more easily.
So that's one of the differences,I would say key differences
between introverts and extroverts.
Introverts are more sensitive to dopamine.
Since introvert brains are so incrediblyactive all the time, they often have
(04:50):
trouble relaxing or stopping allthose thoughts or going to sleep.
It was very funny when I thoughtabout launching this podcast, somebody
from my team said, well, don't getme wrong, but Friederike, you always
have so many ideas and so manythoughts, maybe the podcast will help
you to channel those productively.
(05:11):
And I was smiling andthinking, yeah, that's so me.
There's always something going on.
I'm an outgoing introvert.
So this means Most people think I'man extrovert because I'm not shy.
I speak to people.
I have no problems being on a stage infront of hundreds or thousands of people.
But I love being alone.
(05:32):
I love my books.
I love, you know, when there's no one,I love just being alone sometimes.
So I think the key questionto find out whether you're an
introvert or an extrovert is toask yourself, how do I recharge?
If I'm tired and depleted, will Iget energized by going to a party or
will I get energized by being alone?
I think there you have it.
(05:52):
So the question is, wheredo you get your energy?
I think they're shy extrovertsand social introverts.
And so it's not so muchabout your behavior.
It's more about wheredo you get your energy?
And I think if you reflect on that, youwill see where you fall on that spectrum.
And of course, most people, are a littlebit of both, we are not black and white.
(06:15):
So in certain situations, we're extrovertsand other situations, we're introverts.
But there is a spectrum and peoplefall somewhere on that scale.
And by the way, when I think aboutdiversity, I do not only think of
gender and race and sex and ageand social demographic backgrounds.
(06:35):
I think it's so interesting to lookat diversity from the perspective
of diversity of our brains.
We're all different.
We are unique.
So I love thinking about howwe can use brain diversity to
really foster performance andwell being in the workplace.
Because in the end, if you build aworkplace that, for example, makes
(06:57):
all the extroverts happy, you'regoing to lose the introverts.
They're going to drop out.
They're going to seekthemselves somewhere else.
So I do think it's so importantto be aware of those differences
within our brains as well andto take those into account.
So what can we do to create amore introvert friendly workplace?
(07:20):
And the interesting thing is thetips I'm now going to give you
will make the extroverts happierand more productive as well.
I think the first thing is stop makingall these social events mandatory.
If a leader, I see that with myclients, being a leader means being
(07:42):
in a different dinner every evening,traveling to all these global events.
attending Davos, whatever.
It's draining for an introvert.
So this means that most extrovertsbecome leaders and the introverts
drop out because they don't wantto have that kind of schedule.
So first of all, I would give people abit more flexibility in how many social
(08:06):
occasions they really have to attend.
The person who networks at mostof your events is not necessarily
the smartest person in the room.
So, I would, create thoseopportunities where people can
meet and connect and network.
That's great, but don't, judgepeople by whether they attend or not.
I mean, if you never show up and you'rein a sales role, I think that's a problem.
(08:30):
It also depends a bit on your role,but the person who goes to every
single networking dinner is notalways necessarily the best leader.
I also think it's good to haveintroverts around for topics like
health, compliance, legal, becausethey tend to do the right thing.
So see the value it will add to making aworkplace more ethical because they tend
(08:51):
to be less swayed by social pressure.
Companies also benefit from theexpert knowledge of introverts.
So introverts often have verydeep knowledge because they
really care about topics and havea lot of intrinsic motivation.
I think it's absolutelyessential to reduce distractions.
(09:12):
People are interruptedevery minute at their desk.
The phone rings, notifications,emails, meetings.
Your brain takes 20 minutes tofocus after each interruption.
It's really not a productive way to work.
Introverts hate it, but itmakes everybody less productive.
So if you reduce distractions,not only the introverts will work
(09:36):
better, but the extroverts as well.
Here's another quick tip.
Usually when people brainstorm, they doso in a group, but then the boss says
something, and some opinion leader sayssomething, and then everybody just agrees.
Right?
And so it's not your most creativeoutcome because people limit themselves
(09:57):
because they look at what the bossthinks, and then they only create
ideas that are in line with that.
And that limits yourcreativity and innovation.
And also, when people talk over eachother, your brain can't really have aha
moments because we need silence for that.
So what I would recommend is toalways brainstorm alone first
and have people send in theirideas in paper, in writing first.
(10:22):
Because it has even been shown thatwhen people were able to eliminate what
they had written down, they will quicklydo so to fit into the group opinion.
So one simple, quick tip, thateverybody would benefit from is to
brainstorm alone first and then in agroup if you want to have that like
group feeling of innovating together.
(10:42):
I would make meetings much shorter.
Why do meetings have to be so long?
Meetings are often such a waste of time.
Cut them in half, makefive minutes meetings
.The introverts will love it, but I'm pretty sure that most
extroverts will love that as well.
Meetings are such a time waster.
So reduce the duration of meetings,allow for asynchronous communication.
(11:05):
Not everybody loves a phone call.
I hate it when people say, I'll give youa call, I'm like, no, eliminate my number.
You know, I don't wantto have phone calls.
Don't call me.
I won't pick up.
So I think some people lovetexting, some people love email,
some people love phone calls.
Don't assume that your preferenceis everybody's preference.
(11:26):
Allow flexible ways to communicate.
Don't force your way ofcommunicating onto other people.
Here's another one (11:33):
in meetings, allow people to have their camera off.
If you have the camera on only tocontrol that they're not multitasking
at the same time, your meeting isboring or irrelevant or too long.
So I would fix those other things.
If you just use the camera as a controlinstrument, like in the Big Brother
(11:55):
house, it's not a very effective tool.
So meetings are actually betterwhen you turn the camera off.
Introverts will love that, but Ithink even your extroverts will have
better communication with camera off.
Here's a final thought (12:11):
silence and solitude are good for
everyone because they help yourbrain to foster aha moments.
In order to have a new good idea,you need silence and solitude.
Most people have their best ideasin the shower, when they commute,
when they're on a walk, when it'ssilent, and when they're alone.
(12:36):
So, your introverts will enjoy that,but you can even give your extroverts
a little bit of silence and solitude.
Not everything has to be teamwork.
When I see schools where everybody'sjust working in teams, it sounds good
to the parents, but is this reallythe most effective way to work?
Is this really what's best for your brain?
I doubt it.
So embrace the silence andsolitude and create a workplace
(13:00):
that's good for everyone.
Thanks for listening.
See you in the next episode.
Hello, my name is Friederike Fabritius.
Welcome to my podcast.
Today we're going tospeak about introversion.
And this will be useful for you both,whether you're an introvert, or an
extrovert, or maybe an ambivert.
Regardless of where you fall on thatspectrum, this is going to be useful
(00:26):
to you because we're going to talkboth a little bit about the underlying
neuroscience of introversion andextroversion, but also things you can do
so that both introverts and extrovertscan work better together or individually.
So stay tuned.
(00:46):
This is not just a lectureabout introversion.
You're going to benefit fromthis regardless of where
you fall on that spectrum.
There is a bias in societytowards extroversion.
People think that people who areextroverted are smarter because they
talk more, and then we tend to think thatthey're smart just because they talk more.
So that's a good rule.
(01:07):
If you want to appearsmart, just talk a lot.
Not sure that's good advice, butthat's how people seem to perceive you.
The more you talk, the morepeople believe that you have
something interesting to say.
And that's the problem with introverts.
They often only speak whenthey do have something to say.
So they are often not appreciated tothe full extent of their abilities.
(01:30):
Actually, introverts have a thickergray matter in their prefrontal
cortex compared to extroverts.
This means they tend to think more.
Those areas for planning, thinking,reflection are more developed.
And they tend to show more activityin the frontal lobes of the brain,
(01:51):
even when they're doing nothing.
So in an introvert brain, there'salways something going on.
And, that's a plus because youspend a lot of time thinking.
I'm not here to bash extroverts,so don't get the wrong idea.
I just think a lot has been saidabout extroverts, so today I'm
going to talk about introverts.
It's more about sheddinglight on something that
(02:13):
people don't know much about.
So for example, with introverts,I think one key skill is
that they put in the hours.
For many areas in life, youneed to practice to get better.
You need to stay focused.
And that's something introverts excel in.
They put in the hours.
They stay focused on the topic.
(02:34):
They rely less on externalrewards and social recognition.
They often have high levelsof intrinsic motivation.
So these are really valuable people.
And take this with a grain of salt,but research has shown that a lot
of gifted people are introverted.
(02:54):
So in a company, if you create anenvironment where everybody has
to be social all the time, go toall these dinners and network and
be extroverted, you're probablygoing to alienate your top talent.
They will leave.
They won't be drainedlike this all the time.
So if you really want to have smartpeople in your company, I think you
(03:15):
would benefit from also accommodatingpeople who are not interested in all the
office gossip and, social activities.
Another interesting fact about introvertsis that they tend to be less influenced
by groupthink and social pressure.
So when you have a group situationwhere everybody follows the leader
(03:40):
or does things that are not compliantor illegal, it's most likely that
an introvert is going to stepup and say like, Oh, I disagree.
Because they tend to follow moreof their inner compass and care
less about what other people think.
So that's another asset thatintroverts can bring to the workplace.
When we think about what happens inthe brain for introverted people,
(04:04):
we can find a difference in theascending reticular activating system.
Introverts are justmore easily stimulated.
So for example, in a socialsituation, they will release
more dopamine more quickly and besatisfied, so to say, more quickly.
introverts are juststimulated more easily.
(04:26):
So they require less external socializingand stimulation to experience the
same amount of pleasure and theyget overstimulated more easily.
So that's one of the differences,I would say key differences
between introverts and extroverts.
Introverts are more sensitive to dopamine.
Since introvert brains are so incrediblyactive all the time, they often have
(04:50):
trouble relaxing or stopping allthose thoughts or going to sleep.
It was very funny when I thoughtabout launching this podcast, somebody
from my team said, well, don't getme wrong, but Friederike, you always
have so many ideas and so manythoughts, maybe the podcast will help
you to channel those productively.
(05:11):
And I was smiling andthinking, yeah, that's so me.
There's always something going on.
I'm an outgoing introvert.
So this means Most people think I'man extrovert because I'm not shy.
I speak to people.
I have no problems being on a stage infront of hundreds or thousands of people.
But I love being alone.
(05:32):
I love my books.
I love, you know, when there's no one,I love just being alone sometimes.
So I think the key questionto find out whether you're an
introvert or an extrovert is toask yourself, how do I recharge?
If I'm tired and depleted, will Iget energized by going to a party or
will I get energized by being alone?
I think there you have it.
(05:52):
So the question is, wheredo you get your energy?
I think they're shy extrovertsand social introverts.
And so it's not so muchabout your behavior.
It's more about wheredo you get your energy?
And I think if you reflect on that, youwill see where you fall on that spectrum.
And of course, most people, are a littlebit of both, we are not black and white.
(06:15):
So in certain situations, we're extrovertsand other situations, we're introverts.
But there is a spectrum and peoplefall somewhere on that scale.
And by the way, when I think aboutdiversity, I do not only think of
gender and race and sex and ageand social demographic backgrounds.
(06:35):
I think it's so interesting to lookat diversity from the perspective
of diversity of our brains.
We're all different.
We are unique.
So I love thinking about howwe can use brain diversity to
really foster performance andwell being in the workplace.
Because in the end, if you build aworkplace that, for example, makes
(06:57):
all the extroverts happy, you'regoing to lose the introverts.
They're going to drop out.
They're going to seekthemselves somewhere else.
So I do think it's so importantto be aware of those differences
within our brains as well andto take those into account.
So what can we do to create amore introvert friendly workplace?
(07:20):
And the interesting thing is thetips I'm now going to give you
will make the extroverts happierand more productive as well.
I think the first thing is stop makingall these social events mandatory.
If a leader, I see that with myclients, being a leader means being
(07:42):
in a different dinner every evening,traveling to all these global events.
attending Davos, whatever.
It's draining for an introvert.
So this means that most extrovertsbecome leaders and the introverts
drop out because they don't wantto have that kind of schedule.
So first of all, I would give people abit more flexibility in how many social
(08:06):
occasions they really have to attend.
The person who networks at mostof your events is not necessarily
the smartest person in the room.
So, I would, create thoseopportunities where people can
meet and connect and network.
That's great, but don't, judgepeople by whether they attend or not.
I mean, if you never show up and you'rein a sales role, I think that's a problem.
(08:30):
It also depends a bit on your role,but the person who goes to every
single networking dinner is notalways necessarily the best leader.
I also think it's good to haveintroverts around for topics like
health, compliance, legal, becausethey tend to do the right thing.
So see the value it will add to making aworkplace more ethical because they tend
(08:51):
to be less swayed by social pressure.
Companies also benefit from theexpert knowledge of introverts.
So introverts often have verydeep knowledge because they
really care about topics and havea lot of intrinsic motivation.
I think it's absolutelyessential to reduce distractions.
(09:12):
People are interruptedevery minute at their desk.
The phone rings, notifications,emails, meetings.
Your brain takes 20 minutes tofocus after each interruption.
It's really not a productive way to work.
Introverts hate it, but itmakes everybody less productive.
So if you reduce distractions,not only the introverts will work
(09:36):
better, but the extroverts as well.
Here's another quick tip.
Usually when people brainstorm, they doso in a group, but then the boss says
something, and some opinion leader sayssomething, and then everybody just agrees.
Right?
And so it's not your most creativeoutcome because people limit themselves
(09:57):
because they look at what the bossthinks, and then they only create
ideas that are in line with that.
And that limits yourcreativity and innovation.
And also, when people talk over eachother, your brain can't really have aha
moments because we need silence for that.
So what I would recommend is toalways brainstorm alone first
and have people send in theirideas in paper, in writing first.
(10:22):
Because it has even been shown thatwhen people were able to eliminate what
they had written down, they will quicklydo so to fit into the group opinion.
So one simple, quick tip, thateverybody would benefit from is to
brainstorm alone first and then in agroup if you want to have that like
group feeling of innovating together.
(10:42):
I would make meetings much shorter.
Why do meetings have to be so long?
Meetings are often such a waste of time.
Cut them in half, makefive minutes meetings
.The introverts will love it, but I'm pretty sure that most
extroverts will love that as well.
Meetings are such a time waster.
So reduce the duration of meetings,allow for asynchronous communication.
(11:05):
Not everybody loves a phone call.
I hate it when people say, I'll give youa call, I'm like, no, eliminate my number.
You know, I don't wantto have phone calls.
Don't call me.
I won't pick up.
So I think some people lovetexting, some people love email,
some people love phone calls.
Don't assume that your preferenceis everybody's preference.
(11:26):
Allow flexible ways to communicate.
Don't force your way ofcommunicating onto other people.
Here's another one (11:33):
in meetings, allow people to have their camera off.
If you have the camera on only tocontrol that they're not multitasking
at the same time, your meeting isboring or irrelevant or too long.
So I would fix those other things.
If you just use the camera as a controlinstrument, like in the Big Brother
(11:55):
house, it's not a very effective tool.
So meetings are actually betterwhen you turn the camera off.
Introverts will love that, but Ithink even your extroverts will have
better communication with camera off.
Here's a final thought (12:11):
silence and solitude are good for
everyone because they help yourbrain to foster aha moments.
In order to have a new good idea,you need silence and solitude.
Most people have their best ideasin the shower, when they commute,
when they're on a walk, when it'ssilent, and when they're alone.
(12:36):
So, your introverts will enjoy that,but you can even give your extroverts
a little bit of silence and solitude.
Not everything has to be teamwork.
When I see schools where everybody'sjust working in teams, it sounds good
to the parents, but is this reallythe most effective way to work?
Is this really what's best for your brain?
I doubt it.
So embrace the silence andsolitude and create a workplace
(13:00):
that's good for everyone.
Thanks for listening.
See you in the next episode.
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