February 19, 2025 • 46 mins
Do we even need to bother creating podcast websites anymore? That’s the million-dollar question we’re tackling today. We dive deep into the future of podcasting and whether those little corner spots on the internet are still relevant or just relics of a bygone era. With tools like WordPress getting easier and new platforms popping up, we explore the bizarre landscape of website creation for podcasters—because who doesn't love a good debate about whether to stick with the old-school methods or jump on the latest trends? Spoiler alert: we might not have all the answers, but we sure have a lot of sarcastic opinions on the absurdity of keeping a website in a TikTok world. So grab your headphones and let's figure out if your podcast needs a home or if it’s time to just float in the digital ether like a lost episode.
>> Alright, folks, let’s dive into the chaotic whirlwind that is podcasting websites! Picture this: we’re sitting around, sipping our overpriced lattes, and the million-dollar question pops up – do we even need to create podcast websites anymore? Spoiler alert: it’s a mess! We’ve got the old-timers clinging to their WordPress themes like it’s a lifebuoy on the sinking ship of the internet, while the new kids are all about the cool, shiny app platforms. Remember when a website was your podcast’s home base? Now it feels like we’re just throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. Sure, we’ve got tools like PodPage making life easier, but does anyone actually visit websites anymore? We’ve got TikTok stars telling us to build our empires on their platforms, but what happens when the next big thing comes along and wipes them off the map? It’s a digital Wild West out there, and we’re all just trying to stake our claim.
In this episode, we explore the evolution of podcasting websites and the tools we’ve used over the years, from the dreaded Dreamweaver to the clunky WordPress plugins. And let’s not forget the nightmare of SEO – is it even worth it? With the rise of AI and social media platforms, we’re questioning if a website is still relevant or just an overpriced digital business card. We’ve seen the stats; most folks discover podcasts through word of mouth, so why not just focus on making killer content and let the algorithms do the rest? But hey, if you’re not sending your listeners to your own site, where are they going? We’re all just a click away from being lost in the abyss of the internet, and that’s a sobering thought.
So where does that leave us? Are we website advocates or just holding onto a relic of the past? With sarcasm dripping from our voices, we ponder whether it’s time to toss the website out entirely or double down and make it the best digital hangout spot for our loyal listeners. Because at the end of the day, we want them to find us and hit play, right? If not, we might as well just record our musings into the void and hope someone stumbles upon them while scrolling through TikTok.
>> As we tumble down this rabbit hole, let’s discuss the absurdity of our reliance on platforms that could vanish tomorrow. We’ve got folks building massive followings on TikTok, but what’s the plan when that platform decides to pull the rug out from under us? In this episode, we dive into the absurdity of the podcasting ecosystem where it seems like the only constant is change. With the rise of AI, we’re seeing more creators turning to tech to enhance their craft, but we can’t help but roll our eyes at the irony – here we are, creators, relying on algorithms to get our art out there. It’s like trying to catch fish with a net full of holes.
We take a hard look at the tools of the trade, from the shiny new website builders to the age-old debate over whether to stick with WordPress or jump ship to something less complicated. And let’s throw in a few laughs about our nostalgic memories of Microsoft Front Page and the dark days of HTML...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Do we still need to createpodcast websites?
This is the future ofpodcasting, where.
We ponder what awaits thepodcasters of today.
From the school of podcasting,here's Dave Jackson.
And from the Audacity toPodcast, here's Daniel J.
Lewis.
Daniel, future of podcasting,episode number 57.
(00:22):
Do we still need to makepodcast websites?
I hope so, as I work for one,but I don't know.
What do you think?
Well, that's what we shouldthink about with the future of podcasting.
And just like there are 57Heinz varieties, mythically there
are more than 57 ways that youcould create a podcast website.
(00:44):
And we've come such a long waysince many years ago when it was
basically like movable type.
And then thing calledWordPress came along, made a lot
of that easier.
But WordPress for so long hasstill been complicated to use.
But more recently it's gottenbetter with plugins like Divi Elementor,
(01:05):
Beaver Builder and such.
And even WordPress itself nowhas the block editor, which I think
is fantastic.
I know some people don't likeit, but I think it's great.
And, and the block editor isspreading its little tendrils throughout
the WordPress websiteexperience so that making a website
with WordPress is getting soeasier and making it easier to look
(01:27):
better.
So we've come a long way inall of that self managed stuff.
But then, and this is notsponsored, but Dave, do give a pitch
for why people would Eventhink about PodPage and what gap
it's filling.
I think my favorite thing thata customer has ever said is we, we
changed our navigation.
(01:47):
So we did some, somesurveying, we brought people in,
we said, we kind of want towatch you try to figure this out
without telling you where to go.
And he said, okay.
I'm like, so what's the firstthing you do when you log into PodPage?
And he goes, Fellas, I haven'tlogged into PodPage in about six
months.
He goes, you guys doeverything for me.
We're like, that is a good answer.
So yeah, pulls everything infrom your RSS feed and we've been
(02:08):
adding more and more stuff toit ever since then.
So it's good.
But you also forgotDreamweaver and Microsoft Front Page
back in the day.
What?
No, I didn't forget it.
I scrubbed those things frommy memory.
Yeah, back in the day I taughta lot of Microsoft Front page.
It was a horrible product thatmade really, really bad code, but
(02:32):
you could make your own website.
Ick.
And that's when you'd have webhosts that were like front page compatible.
Because in true Microsoftfashion, there was all this proprietary
stuff running in the background.
And then you've got wix, ofcourse, and Squarespace.
WIX is interesting.
Their marketing really suckedme in and I was going to make just
(02:54):
a basic site for my church andit reminded me of something designed
by Google.
Now this was probably aboutfour years ago.
So, you know, your mileage mayvary, but I remember you would kind
of go into like the word, the,the website editor and the navigation
would change.
Like it was almost like twoseparate programs that were somehow
(03:17):
under one umbrella.
And you'd be like, oh, I'mgoing to do this or I'm going to
do this.
But the minute you're like,oh, I now need to pull up the name
of the page and when I clickon Edit, it was just completely different.
And all their commercials arelike, oh, so easy.
Anybody can make a website.
And I'm like, look, I've beenmaking websites for decades.
I'm getting lost in your navigation.
(03:40):
And of course Squarespace hasreally pretty websites.
I mean, I know I have a friendof mine that does photography and
her website's amazing, youknow, so it's the only thing.
And I actually looked aboutfour months ago.
There is no podcast, you know,theme or whatever you would call
it, template.
It's all, you know, churches,gyms, restaurants, entrepreneurs,
(04:04):
small business.
And I'm like, is there apodcast thing over here?
Well, I think though, and Iknow what you're saying, like back
in the days of WordPress, theearlier days of WordPress, that is
when we had to have a podcast theme.
Now we don't have to so muchbecause you can pretty much turn
any theme into a quote podcasttheme, unquote, by simply adding
(04:27):
a player and some subscribeand follow buttons, which many of
the themes provide.
Or you can get third partyplugins for those things or you can
easily put them on yourself nowadays.
And so it's not like you haveto have a podcast theme.
And I think some of thesethird party, if we could call them
that, these website buildersystems like Squarespace and Wix
(04:50):
and such are getting better athandling podcast needs, even though
they don't have a podcastingsystem per se, or if they do, it's
not a very good one.
But they often have thingslike if you drop in a link to an
MP3 file, it displays thisbeautiful audio player, or if you
drop in a video, it displaysthis player.
Or you can easily make buttonsthat link to Apple podcasts and Spotify
(05:14):
and wherever else you want itto go.
That kind of stuff that turnstheir website into a podcast website,
that they didn't have thatkind of stuff not long ago.
No.
And you do have to be carefulwith wix.
And again, this is probablyfrom four years ago and it was beautiful.
You could put in your RSS feedand it would turn them into, you
(05:36):
know, episodes on your website.
But it wasn't till later Ifigured it out.
They are re hosting your MP3 files.
Oh, that's bad.
And I was like, I noticed thatwhen I put my, my mouse over the
download button in the bottomleft hand corner, I could see the
URL.
And I'm like, that's not Libsyn.
I'm like, that's.
And I was like, oh, this issuch a bummer.
And this is where sometimesyou get, you know, different companies
(05:58):
that aren't podcast companiesand they kind of dip their toe into
the podcasting and you'relike, oh, yeah, no, and I get it.
You know, you could argue thatif you're lucky.
I guess it depends on you, thetechnology, familiarity with your
audience.
You know, I know some people,they have a lot of people that will
listen to the podcast on their website.
(06:19):
But in my travels it's, youknow, 3 to 5%.
But if I had a.
Maybe an older audience thatdidn't have a smartphone, something
like that.
I've always said that yourpodcast website should be as easy
as Visit website press play.
So that when you tell peoplehow to get your podcast, you say
(06:39):
the name of your podcast andhopefully you have a dot com or some
kind of other dot whateverthat top level domain is, the dot
whatever thing, something thatmakes sense and is memorable for
your podcast andunderstandable so that people can
visit your website and pressplay on your latest episode.
How much that actually happensthese days?
(07:00):
Yeah, I don't know.
Well, that's the question,because I just saw a video of Pat
Flynn, who I've known foryears, and I consider him a friend,
and his video was, do youreally need a website?
And he was saying.
And even at the end kind ofsaid, okay, I'm going to say it before
you say it to me.
(07:22):
And that is.
He was like, look, there's.
Because I think he has areally huge TikTok following for
his Pokemon stuff that he's doing.
And he's doing that with his kid.
And there are people that arebuilding huge followings on YouTube
and TikTok.
And you know, even back in theday, there were people that were
really into Clubhouse andthings like that.
And he was saying, and there is.
(07:45):
I forget the name of thestore, Sam Store or something like
that.
Not Sam Card, it was something store.
I'll put a link to the video.
And he was kind of saying,look, just build your audience on
these platforms.
And this particular product hewas promoting, you could have a scheduling.
It was kind of like a.
(08:05):
A tricked out link tree whereyou can sell things, products and
services, you could docalendars, you could do all sorts
of stuff.
And so his idea was grow youraudience on whatever platform you're
using and then send them toyour store.
Then I was like, okay, kind of.
(08:27):
I see the point.
And then at the very end, he's like.
And I realize that if you saythe wrong thing on YouTube and you
get deplatformed, you're kindof back to.
And that's what he said.
When we build a website,nobody knows it, nobody knows it's
there.
It's up to you to help it get found.
And they even said there's awhole industry about SEO where it's
(08:49):
easier to get found on TikTokand YouTube and other platforms.
And then you just point themat your store.
And I was like, it's aninteresting concept, but my biggest
worry is just the fact that,you know, we've seen, you know, Friendster,
MySpace, you know, we've seeneven Facebook, even though it's still
popular.
You know, for a couple ofyears there, we saw with Tom Webster
(09:11):
that the popularity ofFacebook was going down because the
young kids don't want to be onthe same platform as their mom and
dad.
So it's an interesting thing.
And then there's the whole AIthing where if you go to Google and
type something in or.
I know.
(09:32):
Do you use Perplexity now morethan Google or other tools, or are
you still going to google.comto do search?
If I want to find something, I search.
I use DuckDuckGo instead of Google.
But if I want an answer, I useAI because Google and DuckDuckGo
and all of the search engines,I don't know what they've done in
(09:54):
the last few years, but theyhave become less helpful.
Like, they're trying to behelpful, and I think they're trying
to make it for people whodon't know how to use a search engine.
But I know what I'm lookingfor, so stop suggesting stuff to
me that you think I wantthat's not actually what I'm looking
for.
Like, they'll ignore search terms.
So I end up having to putquotation marks around every individual
(10:17):
word because that's the wayyou force it to know.
You want a search that comesup with these words.
Because it's so frustrating.
When I search for a term, Isee a headline that looks like it's
relevant, I click on it, andthen I discover one of the crucial
keywords that I was searchingfor is nowhere to be found on that
page.
Because the search enginedecided, well, this looks like something
(10:40):
you might be wanting.
And so we'll offer this to you.
So that's where some of theAI, especially when it comes to coding
questions for me, as I'mprogramming podgagement, some stuff
is so specific that, like,maybe no one else has asked on the
Internet, or I have troublejust explaining it.
So I'm not sure what terms toeven search for.
(11:02):
But the AI often tends toanswer the question for me or enough
that I can look further from that.
But I do still use search.
What about you, though?
Yeah, it's funny becauseGoogle became Google, because Netscape
and Hotbot and Lycos and allthose, it was better.
(11:24):
You got the information youwere looking for.
It was faster and it was cleaner.
And now when you just type abasic search, the first page pretty
much is all ads.
And I'm like, I'd rather I'mlooking for something organic versus
somebody that paid it there.
And depending on thesituation, but a lot of times I'm
(11:45):
looking for an impartial kindof website.
And so it's weird.
I used to never go to page two.
It was always, you know,whoever made it to the front page.
Now I almost purposely skipand go to page two, and sometimes
I'll see the kind of organiclisting of one of the websites that
was on page one, but they paidfor it.
(12:06):
I'm like, okay, so these guysmust have some sort of, you know,
pull here.
And I'll look at that.
But a lot, same thing.
If I'm doing research for apodcast, I will go to Perplexity
and I'll.
It's.
That one is the one.
I think it's Perplexity AI, ifI remember right, because it automatically
gives you sources.
(12:27):
And so I can go there, ask ita very specific question, and it
will answer the question, andthen give me, you know, five or six
links.
And I always go one.
Like, I'll click on the linkto see, well, was this AI generated?
Like, is there a humananywhere in this chain of information?
And it seems to be faster thanwhen I use Google.
(12:49):
And I was like, all Right.
I think this is my new tool.
And I haven't played withClaude yet.
And I know whatever Elon'sthing on my.
On Twitter is that there'ssomething you can use to make stuff.
But I heard about perplexity,and that's the one I was like, very
much like Google.
I'm like, oh, I go here, Itype a question and I get an answer
(13:11):
that I can use.
And I love the fact that itgives you.
And you can do this inChatGPT, where you can ask, like,
to list your sources, becauseI always want to put those in the
show notes to let people knowwhere I got it from.
But, yeah, I'm starting to dothat more and more.
I'm trying to think of.
I think I have.
My default address bar is setup to use Bing, of all things, because
(13:36):
I think I somehow get paid touse Bing.
I have yet to earn a pennyfrom it, but somebody said you can
earn like, you know, 30 bucksa year by, you know, basically using
Bing as your default search engine.
And I'm like, I'll try it.
It's not horrible.
You know, it's kind of weirdsometimes when video stuff will come
up and you'll click on thevideo and then you end up in some
(13:58):
sort of weird Yahoo video page.
You're like, wait, I'm in.
Yahoo.
Exist.
Yeah, yeah, it's.
It's going to be interestingto see what, what AI does, because
if people aren't going to thewebsites anymore or they're just
taking that main link thatGoogle serves up, like, oh, here's
(14:21):
the answer.
And instead of seeing all theother answers on the website, they
just go to that first one.
I know Todd Cochran alwayscalls it kingmakers.
AI is going to be kingmakers.
They're going to.
Whoever wins that, that battlefor the top recommendation.
Well, that's the odd thing,though, is that there isn't a top
(14:43):
recommendation.
The AI, because of the way theAI works, is it's really just guessing
what the next logical wordshould be or what should come after.
So it's recognizing patterns,it's filling in patterns.
That's why for years I've saidthings like, AI is great at making
sentences.
(15:03):
Sometimes those sentences canbe completely wrong, but it's a sentence
that makes sense as asentence, at least to some degree.
But that's going to get better.
So we can't just rely on itbeing bad.
But still, there is somerandomness involved in it.
Especially, like, if you lookat some of the ways that the images
can be generated.
Kind of helps you understandhow the AI works.
(15:25):
Where an image will start outwith just static, like from the old
80s TVs.
It starts out with static andthen it slowly an image emerges from
the static.
And that's kind of similar tohow it's generating written content,
is that it starts withessentially some kind of random calculation
(15:47):
and then it builds from there.
So if you ask it a question,like if you ask what are the best
podcasts about podcasting.
I know that Todd and Rob havetalked about this on new media show
a couple times where they'vegotten different and different orders
because the AI, for whateverreason put them in a different order.
Maybe it looked randomly at adifferent data set, maybe.
(16:11):
Well, some of the things eventhat were in the recommendations
weren't publishing episodesfor many years had been abandoned
or dead.
And some of the stuff that theAI uses, I don't know that it's prioritized
in recency, whereas like asearch result is prioritized in recency
and backlinks and linkauthority and all of that kind of
(16:33):
thing.
But the AI, yes, there's awhole thing of the training data
of how recently was it trainedand how recent is its knowledge.
Like when I first startedgetting into AI was just around the
time that Covid startedbecoming a thing.
So one of the things that wewere talking about at that point
was saying the AI doesn't knowwhat Covid is, but you can kind of
(16:58):
sort of prime it with someinformation about this is what Covid
is.
Now help me write an articleabout this thing that I just told
you about.
Well, now it does know whatCovid is because the data has been
updated.
But like, if a new podcastlaunches today, then a month from
now, will the AI know about it?
(17:19):
Maybe because they are makingthe AI systems faster, integrating
live search results into someof these things.
So that live search is donethrough website search.
So if a website doesn't exist,that information still isn't going
to get exposed to the AI.
(17:40):
And I'm not so sure they wantto train the AI to search for things
like YouTube videos or podcast episodes.
Have you ever, in your use ofthe AI, perplexity especially, has
it ever given you a link to aYouTube video?
I don't think so.
As soon as you said that, Iwas like, hey, you know what?
(18:01):
It always sends me to websites.
There's never.
I'm sitting here think, Idon't think so.
It's always been.
And what's interesting is I'moften getting websites.
I'VE never heard of, you know,but I'll go there.
I'm like, oh, this is anauthority on such and such or some
news outlet that I've neverheard of.
And at least first impressionis like, oh, this is a pretty cool
(18:23):
website.
I didn't realize that theywere covering this topic.
And then the articles arealways decently written and they
go deep into a subject.
And I'm currently looking uphow effective is email versus social
media.
And it's pretty interestingthat, you know, there's a reason
(18:47):
email, which has been aroundsince dinosaurs basically compared
to the latest technology, butyet it's still here.
And it's because you, youbasically get somebody on your newsletter.
There's.
They're one click away fromdoing whatever you want.
And so I have found all sortsof interesting stats on that, but
that's through perplexity.
(19:08):
And I think I used Google alittle bit, but that again, as soon
as I went to Google it waslike, ugh, hold on.
You know, and then of courseGoogle's gonna give you videos and
if heaven help you if youclick on a video, because I cannot
escape shorts on my lunch.
I watch YouTube and I went tomy subscriptions and almost every
subscription I went to, it was.
(19:30):
I just had to scroll and scroll.
Like, where's the actual.
Like, I understand that that'sa short version of the long version
of the file I want to see.
I'm like, I don't want thesnippet, I want the actual long thing.
So that's always kind of interesting.
But yeah, I don't think I'veever used AI for search and had it
(19:51):
give me a video that's interesting.
So I kind of wonder, bringingthis back to the question we raised
earlier, even though it'sgetting so much easier to make really
good websites and that isgreat and it's only going to get
easier and the websites aregoing to get better.
So there's that.
But also, I'm not going to saythat people are going to get dumber,
(20:13):
but they're going to usedumber tools.
Like, more and more people arerelying on AI to give them the answer.
And the AI is being built intomany of the search engines.
And there's an aspect whereI've taught this for years, talking
about, like, how thorough yourshownotes should be for your podcast
episodes.
And wouldn't you rathersomeone get the information from
(20:36):
you, even if it means readingit instead of listening to it, because
at least they got it from you?
Well, the problem now is thatif you've put really thorough information
out onto your website, unlessyou do the technical thing to block
the AIs, they will ingest thatinformation, they'll repurpose it
(20:56):
and use that information intheir answer.
And even if they give youcredit for that answer, I think it's
probably not going to belikely that people will visit that
link.
If they got the answer fromthe AI, they're probably not going
to go listen to a podcastepisode about that thing.
(21:17):
But yeah, that's the thing theclick through, but continue.
This is all with theassumption of the kind of content
people are looking for.
Generally helpful content iswhere people are looking for answers.
And if they get the answer,then they'll take that answer and
leave.
(21:38):
But if you're looking atsomething like you do an audio drama,
what is the search benefit for that?
The SEO is completelydifferent for audio dramas or comedy
or TV after show podcasts, oreven news current event style podcasts.
That's very different SEO for those.
And that's where I thinkpeople won't rely on the AI so much.
(22:03):
They might ask the AI for alist of recommendations like, hey,
tell me the best comedy podcasts.
And the only way to end up onthat list is to have an Internet
presence of some sort.
Yeah, yeah, that, that's the thing.
I, I've only watched twovideos on is SEO dead?
(22:24):
You know, like, should we evenbother trying to have our websites
get found?
And the two I've watched andI'm assuming these people know what
they're talking about becausethey came up at the top of the YouTube
search, so, you know, they'vegot to have something going on.
And they both kind of said, itlooks like at this point that the
way you get found is in AI isthe same way you get found in websites.
(22:50):
Basically make great content,personal stories, squish your images,
have a fast site.
Basically everything that youdo for SEO are the same things that
help you get found in AI.
And I was like, well, that'sinteresting, but that's a whopping
survey of two videos.
(23:11):
So we'll see and it's going tobe interesting to see how this turns
out when we're basicallyasking a robot for the answer.
If they only give us oneanswer, hopefully they'll give us
more than one.
But the ones I've seen, it'susually, I think what usually Perplexity
usually does is it usuallyanswers the question and then does
(23:32):
the Google thing where itgives you kind of like four different
questions, but they also kindof show you the answer.
So you're getting the answerto the thing you asked, but they're
kind of previewing answers tothe questions you haven't asked.
And I always thought that waslike, well, that gives you again,
another chance to maybe get a click.
(23:54):
But it's going to beinteresting to see because I expect
it's weird.
On one hand, you could thensay, well, what's the point of having
a website?
But if we can't rely onsearch, then we've got to pour gas
on word of mouth.
And where are you going tosend people?
Well, send them to somethingyou own.
So it's been a while.
(24:15):
I think it's probably fiveyears old now.
But there was a stat thatJacobs Media had that 70% of podcasts
are discovered via word of mouth.
Well, okay.
And you don't want to say, oh,just find them wherever you find
podcasts.
Because I hate that phrase.
I hate that phrase.
And I have.
I think I have one or twovideos on my YouTube channel showing
(24:36):
how you can type in the nameof somebody's show and it just won't
show up.
You have to search for them byname or something like that.
Or maybe it's just the, youknow, I always go back to the.
The title of the.
Of the show called ThinkingOutside the Box.
And the last time I checked, Ithink there were 26 shows named Thinking
Outside the Box.
So you don't show up becauseyou're number, you know, 32 or something
(25:00):
like that.
So, yeah, it's one of thosethings where having a website with
an easy way to follow theshow, like you said, go to website,
click play, and then have abutton right there to follow would
be a great strategy.
Yeah.
And as much as you and I areboth proponents of a website, let's
put ourselves here in thespotlight of.
(25:24):
Well, when you hear someonesay a podcast and you want to check
out that podcast, what do youactually do?
You, Dave, what do youactually do?
I pull up pocketcast.com.
that's right.
Now my.
And I do a search there.
And I just did this.
(25:45):
The Shan man does a showcalled the Podcast Therapist.
And I was like, I didn't know.
He rebranded and went over andfound it and followed.
So, yeah, I look in the app,but I'm looking specifically for
a show.
I'm not going into apps andgoing show me podcasts about podcasting.
I'm usually looking for ashow, and if it's an actual podcast,
(26:08):
it will show up.
I've seen some things wherepeople are like, I try to find this
person's podcast, and oneperson was on iHeart, so they were
using Spreaker, but they hadnot listed their show anyplace else
besides iheart.
Because in the same way thatSpotify kind of has their own little
Spotify Kool Aid.
And just stay here and use Spotify.
(26:30):
From what I'm seeing, youknow, if you're on Spreaker, they're
kind of like, oh, we're ownedby iheart, so you just need iheart.
And I'm like, wow, that's areally bad marketing strategy.
But, yeah, what do you do whensomebody says, oh, you gotta check
out this show?
Same thing.
I open my app, which right nowis still Overcast.
I search for the podcast, butit gets really frustrating when it
(26:51):
is one of those titles that isnot unique.
And then you have to ask theperson, is this the right one?
Or you see it, like, ifsomeone is up on stage, you can't
ask them, is this the right podcast?
But there's probably somethingthey're showing on the screen, like
their cover art, so you canmake sure that you're following the
right podcast.
Because I know that forOvercast, especially if you get into
(27:13):
the podcasting 2.0 apps, it'svery likely that even if you go to
that person's website, they'renot going to have a button for that
podcast app.
And to be blunt, I don't thinkthey should because there are so
many podcast apps out there.
To fill a website with all ofthose buttons is completely unreasonable.
(27:36):
But that's where I think somefuture technology can help with this.
Two aspects.
Think about in person andthink about offline or online rather,
when you're not in person.
So the in person, thetechnology that has me most excited.
Yeah, QR codes can do somethings, and that can play into either
(27:59):
one of these solutions thatI'll mention.
But I love the idea of the NFCbeacons, like our friend Matthew
Passi, podcastbeacon.com andI've partnered with him for some
stuff for Podgagement too,because we make follow pages for
podcasts as part of Podgagement.
Sign up@podgagement.com andthe really cool thing about the NFC
(28:23):
Beacons, Dave, you've receivedit too.
Have you played with it, like,seen what it does?
I have, and it's not its fault.
It's the fact that everybody'sphone is a little different.
So when it works, like myfavorite thing, somebody said, oh,
what is that?
Because I had one and itlooked almost like A watch.
(28:44):
And it had the School ofPodcasting logo on.
It was really cool.
And I just put it up tosomebody's watch and was like, there
it is.
I was like, oh, that is so sweet.
And then I don't know if it was.
Maybe they had an Android orwhat, but in some cases, you have
to figure out, do I put thebeacon at the top of the phone or
the middle or things like that?
(29:04):
So that's not a big deal.
But it's just sometimes you'relike, oh, check this out.
And then, like, nothing happens.
And then you slowly move your.
Your arm down, and then it works.
You're like, see, it's so cool.
I planned it that way.
But yeah, it's.
And if you have somebody thatis unfamiliar with those, it's like
some sort of magic voodoo.
(29:25):
They're like, wait, what?
What did you do to do that?
So, yeah, they're pretty slick.
What I love about that over QRcodes is it's much faster, at least
on my iPhone.
When I've done it with thepodcast Beacon is I tap my phone
to the beacon, it pops up a notification.
I tap on that notification,and then my iPhone asks to unlock
(29:50):
or automatically unlocks ifit's the face id and it opens to
that webpage.
Whereas to do a QR code, youhave to go to your camera, which
may or may not involveunlocking your phone first.
Then you have to point it atthe thing, make sure you get it in
focus.
Sometimes, you know, that's a challenge.
Or get the lighting just rightto be able to see it.
(30:12):
Although they're gettingbetter at reading that without all
of that or even beingperfectly in focus.
Some of them are good at that, too.
Then you, though, still haveto tap on the link to confirm that
you want to do whatever thatQR code does.
And then you've arrived at thelanding page.
Whereas the QR code does allof that in multiple steps.
(30:33):
Then the NFC beacon does it injust one or two taps, and you're
following the podcast, butthat's still taking you to a website.
Yeah, for me, if you thinkabout that scenario in an elevator,
and somebody says, oh, youhave a podcast.
And you're like, oh, yeah, Ido a podcast that helps people play
and launch and grow their audience.
(30:55):
And then if you feel so bold,go, where's your phone?
And have them pull it out,because everybody has their phone
in their hand.
And just go, here, hold it upto this thing on my wrist, and presto,
there's your website.
So now You've got a new follower.
And so that's the other thingfor me, the beacon thing.
I was like, oh, this is aperfect way to close your elevator
pitch.
(31:15):
And that's great for the inperson stuff.
Whether that's the beacon orthe QR code, I think the beacon is
superior.
It's really cool too.
I think it, when you make itcool like that, that helps make an
impression on people, maybegets more excited and also makes
it more memorable to them.
What about when you're not in person?
Then it's you either have totell the name of your podcast or
(31:38):
you give them your website.
But there's always that chancethat there are multiple results and
you're number 30 in the searchresults or you have a weird to spell
podcast name.
And then the domain is alsodifficult too.
There's that.
So there are like all of theseother complications when it starts
(31:59):
looking at when you have totell someone from a remote distance
and you're not there to showthem a QR code or to tap a beacon
to their phone.
Thankfully, there's sometechnology being developed.
It's been a little bitabandoned, but I'm still a big fan
of this.
I want cross app commentsbefore this feature though.
(32:21):
But still, I'm a big fan ofthis feature.
If we can just get everyone onboard for it.
It was called Fast Follow andthe idea behind Fast Follow would
be that you could with yourpodcast app engage with something
and that could be scan a QRcode, touch an NFC chip or enter
(32:45):
something AOL keyword.
No, not like that.
But maybe something though.
Like that.
Maybe it is.
You enter a keyword or youenter a code or an address or something
like that into the podcast appand it takes you directly to that
podcast listing in the app.
Now that's obvious where ifyou search for something, then you
(33:05):
can tap on the listing.
But this would be.
Imagine scanning a QR codelike we do this at conferences a
lot where you've got the Whovaapp or some other conference specific
app and then you can scansomeone's badge and it automatically
adds them to your contacts.
Imagine that same kind ofthing for the podcast app, where
with the podcast app you scana QR code or you touch.
(33:27):
With that app open, you touchan NFC badge and then it automatically
takes you to that podcaststill inside the podcast app.
So completely bypassingloading a webpage page, it just automatically
detects you are scanning thisQR code or visiting this web address
from this podcast app.
(33:48):
Therefore, because you'realready in the podcast app.
Jump to this listing in thepodcast app.
That's fast follow, and thatkind of thing, I think, could radically
simplify the process.
There's some debate, and Iknow I've sparked some of the debate
on exactly the technicalaspects of how to do this.
(34:10):
The.
The two basic ways that havebeen discussed are you add some extra
stuff to the end of a URL, any URL.
It could even be google.comand then this.
The podcast GUID is basicallywhat we'd be looking at.
And so if a podcast apprecognizes that podcast guid in the
(34:32):
URL, regardless of if it'sgoogle.com or your own domain or
whatever, it sees that GUIDand it jumps to that.
My contention with that isthat it requires you to put that
in the URL, Right?
Which, if you've got a QR codeon a business card and you've printed
out 10,000 business cards, youmay not be able to point that URL
(34:55):
somewhere else or to add thatcode in the way that the app needs
it.
I mean, maybe you couldredirect, but then the app needs
to make sure it follows a redirect.
The other way that I'veproposed to do it is some kind of
code on the page.
Like, either it's somethingthat's in the HTML head code, like
where JavaScript goes and someof the meta information that Facebook
(35:16):
and social networks read, orit's something in even the header
information on the URL, whichis harder and more technical to get
data into there.
But that's like, where theinformation about the type of content
on the page goes, or when itwas last modified, or the compression,
(35:37):
certain information about thatthat goes into there, whatever technical
method is.
I think we could make thisawesome so that people go directly
to your podcast withoutquestion or confusion, without leaving
their podcast app.
There's so much that, like inpodcasting 2.0, we're doing to help
(35:59):
people stay in their podcastapps and not have to go elsewhere.
And this is one of those things.
Yeah, that would be so easy,you know, especially if, you know,
like, for me, as much as Ilove the podcasting 2.0 apps, if
somebody says, where do youwant me to listen?
(36:20):
I'm probably gonna point themat least right now, until we get
some things fixed in 2.0 land,but to Apple and Spotify.
Why?
Because I can see how far theylisten, and that's a really important
stat to me.
Now, if we could get thatsomeplace else, that'd be great.
But if you're trying to youknow, build an audience in a certain
(36:40):
app.
If you had that fast followand you could point people at a certain
app, you know, that'd be.
I know, I think it's Castbox.
I know a couple of people didsome sort of promotion with them,
but you had to send a lot ofpeople to Castbox to get them to
then promote you.
It was kind of a pay for playwith no money.
But it was like when you haveso many subscribers, we will feature
(37:02):
you in this app.
Well, with a fast follow youcould here scan this and send them
over to Castbox or whateverapp you're using.
So that could be very cool.
The other alternative, becausethat's still talking about like the
in person or the QR codethat's true.
Yeah.
Is.
Well, you can't really do thatkind of thing completely reliably
(37:25):
just by a URL or something.
But what could be done is, andI think Nathan Gatright has done
a great job of this withEpisodes FM and he beat me to building
this kind of technology.
But it is coming for thefeature in Pod Gaugement is that
if people land on a followpage, whether that's on your website
(37:45):
or you using a third partytool, that follow page could give.
I think it should bothremember and give this option to
the user of do you want toremember this app?
Like whatever app it is thatyou tap on.
So of course.
Well, I say of course, but Ithink it should be obvious that whatever
(38:06):
page that is, when you visitit on an Apple device, it only shows
Apple compatible apps.
Same thing if you're on anAndroid only Android apps.
That's why I do it with followthe Podcast.com, which is a feature
of podgagement that should bea given so people don't get confused
by seeing multiple things.
On the iPhone side, there isno way to know what podcast apps
(38:28):
are installed on the device,so the user has to see the list.
But if there could besomething that's used so much, Whether
that's episodes FM, follow thepodcast.com, wordPress plugin, whatever
that is on so many podcastwebsites that if people visit that
(38:49):
then they say I want to alwaysopen these kinds of links in this
podcast app from here on out,then the website could set a cookie.
Now cookies and local storageand stuff gets complicated, especially
with different websites.
But it is a path there.
On the Android side it's a biteasier because Blubrry pioneered
(39:12):
the subscribe on Android.comfeature which built code into podcast
apps that could read some ofthis information.
And on the Android side, youcan set a default podcast app.
And I believe you will be ableto do that at some point in the future
on Apple devices, becauseyou're starting to see Apple more
and more, allow users to set app.
(39:34):
A default app like email.
Now, you can do that with messaging.
You can do that with a web browser.
I think they'll enable thatoption soon for maybe it automatically
detects a podcast RSS feed.
Like it would detect thecontents of the feed and recognize
immediately this is a podcast feed.
So let's open it in whateverthe default podcast app is, which,
(39:58):
interestingly then could make the.
The necessity of linking toyour podcast feed through a button
on your website all the morerelevant again.
Yeah, yeah.
And, you know, and a lot ofpeople are like, well, I'm just going
to do a link tree.
And I get that.
I have a link tree type site,but I only have that because somebody
(40:21):
would occasionally ask me,look, Dave, you have, you know, whatever,
seven different podcasts in abook and this and that, and they're
like, where can I findeverything you do?
And that's the only time Ihave that website is if you want
it again, it's ugly.
You go in there.
There's this big giant list oflinks of things that Dave does.
But in terms of SEO, there'sjust nothing there.
(40:41):
And so for me, I think as longas if SEO is dwindling right now,
that's fine.
I'm going to wait till it'sdead and buried to get rid of my
website to where Then I sendthem to a, you know, link tree or
a store or something like that.
But that.
That just doesn't seem.
I don't want to put all myfaith in a social platform where
I call all my followers on.
(41:03):
It's on the new, you know,chat face.
It's the new thing all thekids are using.
I'm like, yeah, I don't wantto put my.
I mean, just this week, I havea Facebook page for the school of
podcasting.
And I never, ever post to it.
I forgot it was there, so Icopied something and pasted it there.
Well, I had, you know, UTMtracking stuff from.
(41:25):
So I could see if this, youknow, send any traffic.
Well, Facebook didn't like thefact that the links weren't necessarily
obvious, I guess, or whatever,or confused them.
I was like, really?
You don't understand.
And the post was banned.
Like, we've removed this panbecause you were spamming people.
And I was.
(41:45):
So then I clicked on, like,how is this spam?
And it was like, well, some ofyour links were not clear as to where
you were sending people.
And I was like, unless I used.
I used Switchy IO, which iskind of my version of bitly.
Maybe I had a bitly thing, butyou think even that they would.
It was just, I just was like,oh, and this is why I hate social
(42:06):
media.
I was like, okay, fine, that'sthe end of me posting to my Facebook
page.
I totally forgot I had it.
So that's the thing.
And as Daniel said at thebeginning of this, it's so easy now
to make a website.
You know, you're looking at, Idon't know, 15, 20 bucks a month
(42:27):
depending on the scenario.
By the time though, like forme with WordPress, I have to have
word fence.
I have to, or I will just get,you know, hacked to death.
So that's $150 a year I use.
Is it social warfare?
Yeah, something warfare plugins.
(42:48):
That's another fee.
Then I have.
Even though my host backs itup, I always have an external backup.
And by the time you get done,I'm like, oh, it's not 20 bucks a
month anymore, but it's worthit to have it.
And for now I definitely thinkit's worth it.
Plus, if we want to go onanother 10 minute tangent, we could
talk about how are you goingto get people to sign up for your
(43:10):
newsletter?
Well, or anything else thatyou want them to take action on.
It's so much easier if you canbuild that with your own branding.
Like I tell people, never sayPatreon or buy me a coffee or whatever
to your audience, your domain slash.
And then something generic onit, whether that's support, give
back, whatever.
Because then you can changeyour tools, but your branding is
(43:32):
front and center.
And then the more people hearthat, the more they only need to
remember just whatever comesafter that slash.
But a metaphor here that I'vebeen thinking of is we always say
that like a website is yourhome on the Internet.
Well, with all of these socialwebsites and all of these places,
there is still a place for that.
Like when you have friends oryou're getting together with friends
(43:54):
or family, there might be, ohyeah, meet me at such and such place.
You know, I'll be at the clubby the club, I mean Costco.
I'll be here.
Or come join me here.
I'll be doing a demonstrationover there or having a party at this
place.
But if you really want to findme, come to my home.
There's that Kind of thingwhere your website, I think, will
(44:14):
always be your home.
And even by your website, thatmight even technically be only your
domain, even though that'spointing to something else.
But I think there will alwaysbe the need for podcasters to have
a home on the Internet, and Ithink that needs to be their own
(44:35):
webpage.
Yeah, you hit the nail on thehead there.
If nothing else, if you'relike, well, I don't know if I want
to do this or should I use geta domain and start using that in
your show, and then you canredirect it on a show I do that's
live.
It's askthepodcastcoach.comlive every Saturday.
(44:56):
And the reason I do that isfrom time to time, we will switch
what we're using for technology.
Normally I use eCamm, butmaybe I want to use eVmux for a week
or two and see what it's likeor, you know, all those different
tools.
Well, my audience still knowsto go to askthepodcastcoach.com live.
So, like Daniel said,reinforces your brand.
PodPage has a ton of thosewhere it's slash follow voicemail
(45:20):
newsletter, episode numberit's all.
And the reason for that isnumber one, Slash sponsor is another
one.
It reinforces your brand andthat's really where you want people
to remember so that in theevent TikTok goes away, you know,
they're like, oh, I rememberhis website, though.
And they're on your website.
It's like, hey, welcome,TikTok strandees.
(45:42):
We're here now and I'm on thenew, you know, whatever, Boot blue
ground social media.
I'm trying to think of the opposite.
Let me go register that andtrademark it.
Yes.
Boot brown ground.
Yes.
It's the new social media.
All the kids are doing it.
Yeah.
So did we have any boostagrams?
(46:04):
No, Boostigrams.
I did see some streaming statscome in, so thank you very much for
those and feel free to send boostergrams.
Big ones are better.
All right, that is going to doit for episode 57 of the Future of
podcasting.
If you like this show, tell a friend.
If you hate this show, telltwo friends.
Keep boosting, keep podcastingand keep that website online.
Do we still need to createpodcast websites?
This is the future ofpodcasting, where.
We ponder what awaits thepodcasters of today.
From the school of podcasting,here's Dave Jackson.
And from the Audacity toPodcast, here's Daniel J.
Lewis.
Daniel, future of podcasting,episode number 57.
(00:22):
Do we still need to makepodcast websites?
I hope so, as I work for one,but I don't know.
What do you think?
Well, that's what we shouldthink about with the future of podcasting.
And just like there are 57Heinz varieties, mythically there
are more than 57 ways that youcould create a podcast website.
(00:44):
And we've come such a long waysince many years ago when it was
basically like movable type.
And then thing calledWordPress came along, made a lot
of that easier.
But WordPress for so long hasstill been complicated to use.
But more recently it's gottenbetter with plugins like Divi Elementor,
(01:05):
Beaver Builder and such.
And even WordPress itself nowhas the block editor, which I think
is fantastic.
I know some people don't likeit, but I think it's great.
And, and the block editor isspreading its little tendrils throughout
the WordPress websiteexperience so that making a website
with WordPress is getting soeasier and making it easier to look
(01:27):
better.
So we've come a long way inall of that self managed stuff.
But then, and this is notsponsored, but Dave, do give a pitch
for why people would Eventhink about PodPage and what gap
it's filling.
I think my favorite thing thata customer has ever said is we, we
changed our navigation.
(01:47):
So we did some, somesurveying, we brought people in,
we said, we kind of want towatch you try to figure this out
without telling you where to go.
And he said, okay.
I'm like, so what's the firstthing you do when you log into PodPage?
And he goes, Fellas, I haven'tlogged into PodPage in about six
months.
He goes, you guys doeverything for me.
We're like, that is a good answer.
So yeah, pulls everything infrom your RSS feed and we've been
(02:08):
adding more and more stuff toit ever since then.
So it's good.
But you also forgotDreamweaver and Microsoft Front Page
back in the day.
What?
No, I didn't forget it.
I scrubbed those things frommy memory.
Yeah, back in the day I taughta lot of Microsoft Front page.
It was a horrible product thatmade really, really bad code, but
(02:32):
you could make your own website.
Ick.
And that's when you'd have webhosts that were like front page compatible.
Because in true Microsoftfashion, there was all this proprietary
stuff running in the background.
And then you've got wix, ofcourse, and Squarespace.
WIX is interesting.
Their marketing really suckedme in and I was going to make just
(02:54):
a basic site for my church andit reminded me of something designed
by Google.
Now this was probably aboutfour years ago.
So, you know, your mileage mayvary, but I remember you would kind
of go into like the word, the,the website editor and the navigation
would change.
Like it was almost like twoseparate programs that were somehow
(03:17):
under one umbrella.
And you'd be like, oh, I'mgoing to do this or I'm going to
do this.
But the minute you're like,oh, I now need to pull up the name
of the page and when I clickon Edit, it was just completely different.
And all their commercials arelike, oh, so easy.
Anybody can make a website.
And I'm like, look, I've beenmaking websites for decades.
I'm getting lost in your navigation.
(03:40):
And of course Squarespace hasreally pretty websites.
I mean, I know I have a friendof mine that does photography and
her website's amazing, youknow, so it's the only thing.
And I actually looked aboutfour months ago.
There is no podcast, you know,theme or whatever you would call
it, template.
It's all, you know, churches,gyms, restaurants, entrepreneurs,
(04:04):
small business.
And I'm like, is there apodcast thing over here?
Well, I think though, and Iknow what you're saying, like back
in the days of WordPress, theearlier days of WordPress, that is
when we had to have a podcast theme.
Now we don't have to so muchbecause you can pretty much turn
any theme into a quote podcasttheme, unquote, by simply adding
(04:27):
a player and some subscribeand follow buttons, which many of
the themes provide.
Or you can get third partyplugins for those things or you can
easily put them on yourself nowadays.
And so it's not like you haveto have a podcast theme.
And I think some of thesethird party, if we could call them
that, these website buildersystems like Squarespace and Wix
(04:50):
and such are getting better athandling podcast needs, even though
they don't have a podcastingsystem per se, or if they do, it's
not a very good one.
But they often have thingslike if you drop in a link to an
MP3 file, it displays thisbeautiful audio player, or if you
drop in a video, it displaysthis player.
Or you can easily make buttonsthat link to Apple podcasts and Spotify
(05:14):
and wherever else you want itto go.
That kind of stuff that turnstheir website into a podcast website,
that they didn't have thatkind of stuff not long ago.
No.
And you do have to be carefulwith wix.
And again, this is probablyfrom four years ago and it was beautiful.
You could put in your RSS feedand it would turn them into, you
(05:36):
know, episodes on your website.
But it wasn't till later Ifigured it out.
They are re hosting your MP3 files.
Oh, that's bad.
And I was like, I noticed thatwhen I put my, my mouse over the
download button in the bottomleft hand corner, I could see the
URL.
And I'm like, that's not Libsyn.
I'm like, that's.
And I was like, oh, this issuch a bummer.
And this is where sometimesyou get, you know, different companies
(05:58):
that aren't podcast companiesand they kind of dip their toe into
the podcasting and you'relike, oh, yeah, no, and I get it.
You know, you could argue thatif you're lucky.
I guess it depends on you, thetechnology, familiarity with your
audience.
You know, I know some people,they have a lot of people that will
listen to the podcast on their website.
(06:19):
But in my travels it's, youknow, 3 to 5%.
But if I had a.
Maybe an older audience thatdidn't have a smartphone, something
like that.
I've always said that yourpodcast website should be as easy
as Visit website press play.
So that when you tell peoplehow to get your podcast, you say
(06:39):
the name of your podcast andhopefully you have a dot com or some
kind of other dot whateverthat top level domain is, the dot
whatever thing, something thatmakes sense and is memorable for
your podcast andunderstandable so that people can
visit your website and pressplay on your latest episode.
How much that actually happensthese days?
(07:00):
Yeah, I don't know.
Well, that's the question,because I just saw a video of Pat
Flynn, who I've known foryears, and I consider him a friend,
and his video was, do youreally need a website?
And he was saying.
And even at the end kind ofsaid, okay, I'm going to say it before
you say it to me.
(07:22):
And that is.
He was like, look, there's.
Because I think he has areally huge TikTok following for
his Pokemon stuff that he's doing.
And he's doing that with his kid.
And there are people that arebuilding huge followings on YouTube
and TikTok.
And you know, even back in theday, there were people that were
really into Clubhouse andthings like that.
And he was saying, and there is.
(07:45):
I forget the name of thestore, Sam Store or something like
that.
Not Sam Card, it was something store.
I'll put a link to the video.
And he was kind of saying,look, just build your audience on
these platforms.
And this particular product hewas promoting, you could have a scheduling.
It was kind of like a.
(08:05):
A tricked out link tree whereyou can sell things, products and
services, you could docalendars, you could do all sorts
of stuff.
And so his idea was grow youraudience on whatever platform you're
using and then send them toyour store.
Then I was like, okay, kind of.
(08:27):
I see the point.
And then at the very end, he's like.
And I realize that if you saythe wrong thing on YouTube and you
get deplatformed, you're kindof back to.
And that's what he said.
When we build a website,nobody knows it, nobody knows it's
there.
It's up to you to help it get found.
And they even said there's awhole industry about SEO where it's
(08:49):
easier to get found on TikTokand YouTube and other platforms.
And then you just point themat your store.
And I was like, it's aninteresting concept, but my biggest
worry is just the fact that,you know, we've seen, you know, Friendster,
MySpace, you know, we've seeneven Facebook, even though it's still
popular.
You know, for a couple ofyears there, we saw with Tom Webster
(09:11):
that the popularity ofFacebook was going down because the
young kids don't want to be onthe same platform as their mom and
dad.
So it's an interesting thing.
And then there's the whole AIthing where if you go to Google and
type something in or.
I know.
(09:32):
Do you use Perplexity now morethan Google or other tools, or are
you still going to google.comto do search?
If I want to find something, I search.
I use DuckDuckGo instead of Google.
But if I want an answer, I useAI because Google and DuckDuckGo
and all of the search engines,I don't know what they've done in
(09:54):
the last few years, but theyhave become less helpful.
Like, they're trying to behelpful, and I think they're trying
to make it for people whodon't know how to use a search engine.
But I know what I'm lookingfor, so stop suggesting stuff to
me that you think I wantthat's not actually what I'm looking
for.
Like, they'll ignore search terms.
So I end up having to putquotation marks around every individual
(10:17):
word because that's the wayyou force it to know.
You want a search that comesup with these words.
Because it's so frustrating.
When I search for a term, Isee a headline that looks like it's
relevant, I click on it, andthen I discover one of the crucial
keywords that I was searchingfor is nowhere to be found on that
page.
Because the search enginedecided, well, this looks like something
(10:40):
you might be wanting.
And so we'll offer this to you.
So that's where some of theAI, especially when it comes to coding
questions for me, as I'mprogramming podgagement, some stuff
is so specific that, like,maybe no one else has asked on the
Internet, or I have troublejust explaining it.
So I'm not sure what terms toeven search for.
(11:02):
But the AI often tends toanswer the question for me or enough
that I can look further from that.
But I do still use search.
What about you, though?
Yeah, it's funny becauseGoogle became Google, because Netscape
and Hotbot and Lycos and allthose, it was better.
(11:24):
You got the information youwere looking for.
It was faster and it was cleaner.
And now when you just type abasic search, the first page pretty
much is all ads.
And I'm like, I'd rather I'mlooking for something organic versus
somebody that paid it there.
And depending on thesituation, but a lot of times I'm
(11:45):
looking for an impartial kindof website.
And so it's weird.
I used to never go to page two.
It was always, you know,whoever made it to the front page.
Now I almost purposely skipand go to page two, and sometimes
I'll see the kind of organiclisting of one of the websites that
was on page one, but they paidfor it.
(12:06):
I'm like, okay, so these guysmust have some sort of, you know,
pull here.
And I'll look at that.
But a lot, same thing.
If I'm doing research for apodcast, I will go to Perplexity
and I'll.
It's.
That one is the one.
I think it's Perplexity AI, ifI remember right, because it automatically
gives you sources.
(12:27):
And so I can go there, ask ita very specific question, and it
will answer the question, andthen give me, you know, five or six
links.
And I always go one.
Like, I'll click on the linkto see, well, was this AI generated?
Like, is there a humananywhere in this chain of information?
And it seems to be faster thanwhen I use Google.
(12:49):
And I was like, all Right.
I think this is my new tool.
And I haven't played withClaude yet.
And I know whatever Elon'sthing on my.
On Twitter is that there'ssomething you can use to make stuff.
But I heard about perplexity,and that's the one I was like, very
much like Google.
I'm like, oh, I go here, Itype a question and I get an answer
(13:11):
that I can use.
And I love the fact that itgives you.
And you can do this inChatGPT, where you can ask, like,
to list your sources, becauseI always want to put those in the
show notes to let people knowwhere I got it from.
But, yeah, I'm starting to dothat more and more.
I'm trying to think of.
I think I have.
My default address bar is setup to use Bing, of all things, because
(13:36):
I think I somehow get paid touse Bing.
I have yet to earn a pennyfrom it, but somebody said you can
earn like, you know, 30 bucksa year by, you know, basically using
Bing as your default search engine.
And I'm like, I'll try it.
It's not horrible.
You know, it's kind of weirdsometimes when video stuff will come
up and you'll click on thevideo and then you end up in some
(13:58):
sort of weird Yahoo video page.
You're like, wait, I'm in.
Yahoo.
Exist.
Yeah, yeah, it's.
It's going to be interestingto see what, what AI does, because
if people aren't going to thewebsites anymore or they're just
taking that main link thatGoogle serves up, like, oh, here's
(14:21):
the answer.
And instead of seeing all theother answers on the website, they
just go to that first one.
I know Todd Cochran alwayscalls it kingmakers.
AI is going to be kingmakers.
They're going to.
Whoever wins that, that battlefor the top recommendation.
Well, that's the odd thing,though, is that there isn't a top
(14:43):
recommendation.
The AI, because of the way theAI works, is it's really just guessing
what the next logical wordshould be or what should come after.
So it's recognizing patterns,it's filling in patterns.
That's why for years I've saidthings like, AI is great at making
sentences.
(15:03):
Sometimes those sentences canbe completely wrong, but it's a sentence
that makes sense as asentence, at least to some degree.
But that's going to get better.
So we can't just rely on itbeing bad.
But still, there is somerandomness involved in it.
Especially, like, if you lookat some of the ways that the images
can be generated.
Kind of helps you understandhow the AI works.
(15:25):
Where an image will start outwith just static, like from the old
80s TVs.
It starts out with static andthen it slowly an image emerges from
the static.
And that's kind of similar tohow it's generating written content,
is that it starts withessentially some kind of random calculation
(15:47):
and then it builds from there.
So if you ask it a question,like if you ask what are the best
podcasts about podcasting.
I know that Todd and Rob havetalked about this on new media show
a couple times where they'vegotten different and different orders
because the AI, for whateverreason put them in a different order.
Maybe it looked randomly at adifferent data set, maybe.
(16:11):
Well, some of the things eventhat were in the recommendations
weren't publishing episodesfor many years had been abandoned
or dead.
And some of the stuff that theAI uses, I don't know that it's prioritized
in recency, whereas like asearch result is prioritized in recency
and backlinks and linkauthority and all of that kind of
(16:33):
thing.
But the AI, yes, there's awhole thing of the training data
of how recently was it trainedand how recent is its knowledge.
Like when I first startedgetting into AI was just around the
time that Covid startedbecoming a thing.
So one of the things that wewere talking about at that point
was saying the AI doesn't knowwhat Covid is, but you can kind of
(16:58):
sort of prime it with someinformation about this is what Covid
is.
Now help me write an articleabout this thing that I just told
you about.
Well, now it does know whatCovid is because the data has been
updated.
But like, if a new podcastlaunches today, then a month from
now, will the AI know about it?
(17:19):
Maybe because they are makingthe AI systems faster, integrating
live search results into someof these things.
So that live search is donethrough website search.
So if a website doesn't exist,that information still isn't going
to get exposed to the AI.
(17:40):
And I'm not so sure they wantto train the AI to search for things
like YouTube videos or podcast episodes.
Have you ever, in your use ofthe AI, perplexity especially, has
it ever given you a link to aYouTube video?
I don't think so.
As soon as you said that, Iwas like, hey, you know what?
(18:01):
It always sends me to websites.
There's never.
I'm sitting here think, Idon't think so.
It's always been.
And what's interesting is I'moften getting websites.
I'VE never heard of, you know,but I'll go there.
I'm like, oh, this is anauthority on such and such or some
news outlet that I've neverheard of.
And at least first impressionis like, oh, this is a pretty cool
(18:23):
website.
I didn't realize that theywere covering this topic.
And then the articles arealways decently written and they
go deep into a subject.
And I'm currently looking uphow effective is email versus social
media.
And it's pretty interestingthat, you know, there's a reason
(18:47):
email, which has been aroundsince dinosaurs basically compared
to the latest technology, butyet it's still here.
And it's because you, youbasically get somebody on your newsletter.
There's.
They're one click away fromdoing whatever you want.
And so I have found all sortsof interesting stats on that, but
that's through perplexity.
(19:08):
And I think I used Google alittle bit, but that again, as soon
as I went to Google it waslike, ugh, hold on.
You know, and then of courseGoogle's gonna give you videos and
if heaven help you if youclick on a video, because I cannot
escape shorts on my lunch.
I watch YouTube and I went tomy subscriptions and almost every
subscription I went to, it was.
(19:30):
I just had to scroll and scroll.
Like, where's the actual.
Like, I understand that that'sa short version of the long version
of the file I want to see.
I'm like, I don't want thesnippet, I want the actual long thing.
So that's always kind of interesting.
But yeah, I don't think I'veever used AI for search and had it
(19:51):
give me a video that's interesting.
So I kind of wonder, bringingthis back to the question we raised
earlier, even though it'sgetting so much easier to make really
good websites and that isgreat and it's only going to get
easier and the websites aregoing to get better.
So there's that.
But also, I'm not going to saythat people are going to get dumber,
(20:13):
but they're going to usedumber tools.
Like, more and more people arerelying on AI to give them the answer.
And the AI is being built intomany of the search engines.
And there's an aspect whereI've taught this for years, talking
about, like, how thorough yourshownotes should be for your podcast
episodes.
And wouldn't you rathersomeone get the information from
(20:36):
you, even if it means readingit instead of listening to it, because
at least they got it from you?
Well, the problem now is thatif you've put really thorough information
out onto your website, unlessyou do the technical thing to block
the AIs, they will ingest thatinformation, they'll repurpose it
(20:56):
and use that information intheir answer.
And even if they give youcredit for that answer, I think it's
probably not going to belikely that people will visit that
link.
If they got the answer fromthe AI, they're probably not going
to go listen to a podcastepisode about that thing.
(21:17):
But yeah, that's the thing theclick through, but continue.
This is all with theassumption of the kind of content
people are looking for.
Generally helpful content iswhere people are looking for answers.
And if they get the answer,then they'll take that answer and
leave.
(21:38):
But if you're looking atsomething like you do an audio drama,
what is the search benefit for that?
The SEO is completelydifferent for audio dramas or comedy
or TV after show podcasts, oreven news current event style podcasts.
That's very different SEO for those.
And that's where I thinkpeople won't rely on the AI so much.
(22:03):
They might ask the AI for alist of recommendations like, hey,
tell me the best comedy podcasts.
And the only way to end up onthat list is to have an Internet
presence of some sort.
Yeah, yeah, that, that's the thing.
I, I've only watched twovideos on is SEO dead?
(22:24):
You know, like, should we evenbother trying to have our websites
get found?
And the two I've watched andI'm assuming these people know what
they're talking about becausethey came up at the top of the YouTube
search, so, you know, they'vegot to have something going on.
And they both kind of said, itlooks like at this point that the
way you get found is in AI isthe same way you get found in websites.
(22:50):
Basically make great content,personal stories, squish your images,
have a fast site.
Basically everything that youdo for SEO are the same things that
help you get found in AI.
And I was like, well, that'sinteresting, but that's a whopping
survey of two videos.
(23:11):
So we'll see and it's going tobe interesting to see how this turns
out when we're basicallyasking a robot for the answer.
If they only give us oneanswer, hopefully they'll give us
more than one.
But the ones I've seen, it'susually, I think what usually Perplexity
usually does is it usuallyanswers the question and then does
(23:32):
the Google thing where itgives you kind of like four different
questions, but they also kindof show you the answer.
So you're getting the answerto the thing you asked, but they're
kind of previewing answers tothe questions you haven't asked.
And I always thought that waslike, well, that gives you again,
another chance to maybe get a click.
(23:54):
But it's going to beinteresting to see because I expect
it's weird.
On one hand, you could thensay, well, what's the point of having
a website?
But if we can't rely onsearch, then we've got to pour gas
on word of mouth.
And where are you going tosend people?
Well, send them to somethingyou own.
So it's been a while.
(24:15):
I think it's probably fiveyears old now.
But there was a stat thatJacobs Media had that 70% of podcasts
are discovered via word of mouth.
Well, okay.
And you don't want to say, oh,just find them wherever you find
podcasts.
Because I hate that phrase.
I hate that phrase.
And I have.
I think I have one or twovideos on my YouTube channel showing
(24:36):
how you can type in the nameof somebody's show and it just won't
show up.
You have to search for them byname or something like that.
Or maybe it's just the, youknow, I always go back to the.
The title of the.
Of the show called ThinkingOutside the Box.
And the last time I checked, Ithink there were 26 shows named Thinking
Outside the Box.
So you don't show up becauseyou're number, you know, 32 or something
(25:00):
like that.
So, yeah, it's one of thosethings where having a website with
an easy way to follow theshow, like you said, go to website,
click play, and then have abutton right there to follow would
be a great strategy.
Yeah.
And as much as you and I areboth proponents of a website, let's
put ourselves here in thespotlight of.
(25:24):
Well, when you hear someonesay a podcast and you want to check
out that podcast, what do youactually do?
You, Dave, what do youactually do?
I pull up pocketcast.com.
that's right.
Now my.
And I do a search there.
And I just did this.
(25:45):
The Shan man does a showcalled the Podcast Therapist.
And I was like, I didn't know.
He rebranded and went over andfound it and followed.
So, yeah, I look in the app,but I'm looking specifically for
a show.
I'm not going into apps andgoing show me podcasts about podcasting.
I'm usually looking for ashow, and if it's an actual podcast,
(26:08):
it will show up.
I've seen some things wherepeople are like, I try to find this
person's podcast, and oneperson was on iHeart, so they were
using Spreaker, but they hadnot listed their show anyplace else
besides iheart.
Because in the same way thatSpotify kind of has their own little
Spotify Kool Aid.
And just stay here and use Spotify.
(26:30):
From what I'm seeing, youknow, if you're on Spreaker, they're
kind of like, oh, we're ownedby iheart, so you just need iheart.
And I'm like, wow, that's areally bad marketing strategy.
But, yeah, what do you do whensomebody says, oh, you gotta check
out this show?
Same thing.
I open my app, which right nowis still Overcast.
I search for the podcast, butit gets really frustrating when it
(26:51):
is one of those titles that isnot unique.
And then you have to ask theperson, is this the right one?
Or you see it, like, ifsomeone is up on stage, you can't
ask them, is this the right podcast?
But there's probably somethingthey're showing on the screen, like
their cover art, so you canmake sure that you're following the
right podcast.
Because I know that forOvercast, especially if you get into
(27:13):
the podcasting 2.0 apps, it'svery likely that even if you go to
that person's website, they'renot going to have a button for that
podcast app.
And to be blunt, I don't thinkthey should because there are so
many podcast apps out there.
To fill a website with all ofthose buttons is completely unreasonable.
(27:36):
But that's where I think somefuture technology can help with this.
Two aspects.
Think about in person andthink about offline or online rather,
when you're not in person.
So the in person, thetechnology that has me most excited.
Yeah, QR codes can do somethings, and that can play into either
(27:59):
one of these solutions thatI'll mention.
But I love the idea of the NFCbeacons, like our friend Matthew
Passi, podcastbeacon.com andI've partnered with him for some
stuff for Podgagement too,because we make follow pages for
podcasts as part of Podgagement.
Sign up@podgagement.com andthe really cool thing about the NFC
(28:23):
Beacons, Dave, you've receivedit too.
Have you played with it, like,seen what it does?
I have, and it's not its fault.
It's the fact that everybody'sphone is a little different.
So when it works, like myfavorite thing, somebody said, oh,
what is that?
Because I had one and itlooked almost like A watch.
(28:44):
And it had the School ofPodcasting logo on.
It was really cool.
And I just put it up tosomebody's watch and was like, there
it is.
I was like, oh, that is so sweet.
And then I don't know if it was.
Maybe they had an Android orwhat, but in some cases, you have
to figure out, do I put thebeacon at the top of the phone or
the middle or things like that?
(29:04):
So that's not a big deal.
But it's just sometimes you'relike, oh, check this out.
And then, like, nothing happens.
And then you slowly move your.
Your arm down, and then it works.
You're like, see, it's so cool.
I planned it that way.
But yeah, it's.
And if you have somebody thatis unfamiliar with those, it's like
some sort of magic voodoo.
(29:25):
They're like, wait, what?
What did you do to do that?
So, yeah, they're pretty slick.
What I love about that over QRcodes is it's much faster, at least
on my iPhone.
When I've done it with thepodcast Beacon is I tap my phone
to the beacon, it pops up a notification.
I tap on that notification,and then my iPhone asks to unlock
(29:50):
or automatically unlocks ifit's the face id and it opens to
that webpage.
Whereas to do a QR code, youhave to go to your camera, which
may or may not involveunlocking your phone first.
Then you have to point it atthe thing, make sure you get it in
focus.
Sometimes, you know, that's a challenge.
Or get the lighting just rightto be able to see it.
(30:12):
Although they're gettingbetter at reading that without all
of that or even beingperfectly in focus.
Some of them are good at that, too.
Then you, though, still haveto tap on the link to confirm that
you want to do whatever thatQR code does.
And then you've arrived at thelanding page.
Whereas the QR code does allof that in multiple steps.
(30:33):
Then the NFC beacon does it injust one or two taps, and you're
following the podcast, butthat's still taking you to a website.
Yeah, for me, if you thinkabout that scenario in an elevator,
and somebody says, oh, youhave a podcast.
And you're like, oh, yeah, Ido a podcast that helps people play
and launch and grow their audience.
(30:55):
And then if you feel so bold,go, where's your phone?
And have them pull it out,because everybody has their phone
in their hand.
And just go, here, hold it upto this thing on my wrist, and presto,
there's your website.
So now You've got a new follower.
And so that's the other thingfor me, the beacon thing.
I was like, oh, this is aperfect way to close your elevator
pitch.
(31:15):
And that's great for the inperson stuff.
Whether that's the beacon orthe QR code, I think the beacon is
superior.
It's really cool too.
I think it, when you make itcool like that, that helps make an
impression on people, maybegets more excited and also makes
it more memorable to them.
What about when you're not in person?
Then it's you either have totell the name of your podcast or
(31:38):
you give them your website.
But there's always that chancethat there are multiple results and
you're number 30 in the searchresults or you have a weird to spell
podcast name.
And then the domain is alsodifficult too.
There's that.
So there are like all of theseother complications when it starts
(31:59):
looking at when you have totell someone from a remote distance
and you're not there to showthem a QR code or to tap a beacon
to their phone.
Thankfully, there's sometechnology being developed.
It's been a little bitabandoned, but I'm still a big fan
of this.
I want cross app commentsbefore this feature though.
(32:21):
But still, I'm a big fan ofthis feature.
If we can just get everyone onboard for it.
It was called Fast Follow andthe idea behind Fast Follow would
be that you could with yourpodcast app engage with something
and that could be scan a QRcode, touch an NFC chip or enter
(32:45):
something AOL keyword.
No, not like that.
But maybe something though.
Like that.
Maybe it is.
You enter a keyword or youenter a code or an address or something
like that into the podcast appand it takes you directly to that
podcast listing in the app.
Now that's obvious where ifyou search for something, then you
(33:05):
can tap on the listing.
But this would be.
Imagine scanning a QR codelike we do this at conferences a
lot where you've got the Whovaapp or some other conference specific
app and then you can scansomeone's badge and it automatically
adds them to your contacts.
Imagine that same kind ofthing for the podcast app, where
with the podcast app you scana QR code or you touch.
(33:27):
With that app open, you touchan NFC badge and then it automatically
takes you to that podcaststill inside the podcast app.
So completely bypassingloading a webpage page, it just automatically
detects you are scanning thisQR code or visiting this web address
from this podcast app.
(33:48):
Therefore, because you'realready in the podcast app.
Jump to this listing in thepodcast app.
That's fast follow, and thatkind of thing, I think, could radically
simplify the process.
There's some debate, and Iknow I've sparked some of the debate
on exactly the technicalaspects of how to do this.
(34:10):
The.
The two basic ways that havebeen discussed are you add some extra
stuff to the end of a URL, any URL.
It could even be google.comand then this.
The podcast GUID is basicallywhat we'd be looking at.
And so if a podcast apprecognizes that podcast guid in the
(34:32):
URL, regardless of if it'sgoogle.com or your own domain or
whatever, it sees that GUIDand it jumps to that.
My contention with that isthat it requires you to put that
in the URL, Right?
Which, if you've got a QR codeon a business card and you've printed
out 10,000 business cards, youmay not be able to point that URL
(34:55):
somewhere else or to add thatcode in the way that the app needs
it.
I mean, maybe you couldredirect, but then the app needs
to make sure it follows a redirect.
The other way that I'veproposed to do it is some kind of
code on the page.
Like, either it's somethingthat's in the HTML head code, like
where JavaScript goes and someof the meta information that Facebook
(35:16):
and social networks read, orit's something in even the header
information on the URL, whichis harder and more technical to get
data into there.
But that's like, where theinformation about the type of content
on the page goes, or when itwas last modified, or the compression,
(35:37):
certain information about thatthat goes into there, whatever technical
method is.
I think we could make thisawesome so that people go directly
to your podcast withoutquestion or confusion, without leaving
their podcast app.
There's so much that, like inpodcasting 2.0, we're doing to help
(35:59):
people stay in their podcastapps and not have to go elsewhere.
And this is one of those things.
Yeah, that would be so easy,you know, especially if, you know,
like, for me, as much as Ilove the podcasting 2.0 apps, if
somebody says, where do youwant me to listen?
(36:20):
I'm probably gonna point themat least right now, until we get
some things fixed in 2.0 land,but to Apple and Spotify.
Why?
Because I can see how far theylisten, and that's a really important
stat to me.
Now, if we could get thatsomeplace else, that'd be great.
But if you're trying to youknow, build an audience in a certain
(36:40):
app.
If you had that fast followand you could point people at a certain
app, you know, that'd be.
I know, I think it's Castbox.
I know a couple of people didsome sort of promotion with them,
but you had to send a lot ofpeople to Castbox to get them to
then promote you.
It was kind of a pay for playwith no money.
But it was like when you haveso many subscribers, we will feature
(37:02):
you in this app.
Well, with a fast follow youcould here scan this and send them
over to Castbox or whateverapp you're using.
So that could be very cool.
The other alternative, becausethat's still talking about like the
in person or the QR codethat's true.
Yeah.
Is.
Well, you can't really do thatkind of thing completely reliably
(37:25):
just by a URL or something.
But what could be done is, andI think Nathan Gatright has done
a great job of this withEpisodes FM and he beat me to building
this kind of technology.
But it is coming for thefeature in Pod Gaugement is that
if people land on a followpage, whether that's on your website
(37:45):
or you using a third partytool, that follow page could give.
I think it should bothremember and give this option to
the user of do you want toremember this app?
Like whatever app it is thatyou tap on.
So of course.
Well, I say of course, but Ithink it should be obvious that whatever
(38:06):
page that is, when you visitit on an Apple device, it only shows
Apple compatible apps.
Same thing if you're on anAndroid only Android apps.
That's why I do it with followthe Podcast.com, which is a feature
of podgagement that should bea given so people don't get confused
by seeing multiple things.
On the iPhone side, there isno way to know what podcast apps
(38:28):
are installed on the device,so the user has to see the list.
But if there could besomething that's used so much, Whether
that's episodes FM, follow thepodcast.com, wordPress plugin, whatever
that is on so many podcastwebsites that if people visit that
(38:49):
then they say I want to alwaysopen these kinds of links in this
podcast app from here on out,then the website could set a cookie.
Now cookies and local storageand stuff gets complicated, especially
with different websites.
But it is a path there.
On the Android side it's a biteasier because Blubrry pioneered
(39:12):
the subscribe on Android.comfeature which built code into podcast
apps that could read some ofthis information.
And on the Android side, youcan set a default podcast app.
And I believe you will be ableto do that at some point in the future
on Apple devices, becauseyou're starting to see Apple more
and more, allow users to set app.
(39:34):
A default app like email.
Now, you can do that with messaging.
You can do that with a web browser.
I think they'll enable thatoption soon for maybe it automatically
detects a podcast RSS feed.
Like it would detect thecontents of the feed and recognize
immediately this is a podcast feed.
So let's open it in whateverthe default podcast app is, which,
(39:58):
interestingly then could make the.
The necessity of linking toyour podcast feed through a button
on your website all the morerelevant again.
Yeah, yeah.
And, you know, and a lot ofpeople are like, well, I'm just going
to do a link tree.
And I get that.
I have a link tree type site,but I only have that because somebody
(40:21):
would occasionally ask me,look, Dave, you have, you know, whatever,
seven different podcasts in abook and this and that, and they're
like, where can I findeverything you do?
And that's the only time Ihave that website is if you want
it again, it's ugly.
You go in there.
There's this big giant list oflinks of things that Dave does.
But in terms of SEO, there'sjust nothing there.
(40:41):
And so for me, I think as longas if SEO is dwindling right now,
that's fine.
I'm going to wait till it'sdead and buried to get rid of my
website to where Then I sendthem to a, you know, link tree or
a store or something like that.
But that.
That just doesn't seem.
I don't want to put all myfaith in a social platform where
I call all my followers on.
(41:03):
It's on the new, you know,chat face.
It's the new thing all thekids are using.
I'm like, yeah, I don't wantto put my.
I mean, just this week, I havea Facebook page for the school of
podcasting.
And I never, ever post to it.
I forgot it was there, so Icopied something and pasted it there.
Well, I had, you know, UTMtracking stuff from.
(41:25):
So I could see if this, youknow, send any traffic.
Well, Facebook didn't like thefact that the links weren't necessarily
obvious, I guess, or whatever,or confused them.
I was like, really?
You don't understand.
And the post was banned.
Like, we've removed this panbecause you were spamming people.
And I was.
(41:45):
So then I clicked on, like,how is this spam?
And it was like, well, some ofyour links were not clear as to where
you were sending people.
And I was like, unless I used.
I used Switchy IO, which iskind of my version of bitly.
Maybe I had a bitly thing, butyou think even that they would.
It was just, I just was like,oh, and this is why I hate social
(42:06):
media.
I was like, okay, fine, that'sthe end of me posting to my Facebook
page.
I totally forgot I had it.
So that's the thing.
And as Daniel said at thebeginning of this, it's so easy now
to make a website.
You know, you're looking at, Idon't know, 15, 20 bucks a month
(42:27):
depending on the scenario.
By the time though, like forme with WordPress, I have to have
word fence.
I have to, or I will just get,you know, hacked to death.
So that's $150 a year I use.
Is it social warfare?
Yeah, something warfare plugins.
(42:48):
That's another fee.
Then I have.
Even though my host backs itup, I always have an external backup.
And by the time you get done,I'm like, oh, it's not 20 bucks a
month anymore, but it's worthit to have it.
And for now I definitely thinkit's worth it.
Plus, if we want to go onanother 10 minute tangent, we could
talk about how are you goingto get people to sign up for your
(43:10):
newsletter?
Well, or anything else thatyou want them to take action on.
It's so much easier if you canbuild that with your own branding.
Like I tell people, never sayPatreon or buy me a coffee or whatever
to your audience, your domain slash.
And then something generic onit, whether that's support, give
back, whatever.
Because then you can changeyour tools, but your branding is
(43:32):
front and center.
And then the more people hearthat, the more they only need to
remember just whatever comesafter that slash.
But a metaphor here that I'vebeen thinking of is we always say
that like a website is yourhome on the Internet.
Well, with all of these socialwebsites and all of these places,
there is still a place for that.
Like when you have friends oryou're getting together with friends
(43:54):
or family, there might be, ohyeah, meet me at such and such place.
You know, I'll be at the clubby the club, I mean Costco.
I'll be here.
Or come join me here.
I'll be doing a demonstrationover there or having a party at this
place.
But if you really want to findme, come to my home.
There's that Kind of thingwhere your website, I think, will
(44:14):
always be your home.
And even by your website, thatmight even technically be only your
domain, even though that'spointing to something else.
But I think there will alwaysbe the need for podcasters to have
a home on the Internet, and Ithink that needs to be their own
(44:35):
webpage.
Yeah, you hit the nail on thehead there.
If nothing else, if you'relike, well, I don't know if I want
to do this or should I use geta domain and start using that in
your show, and then you canredirect it on a show I do that's
live.
It's askthepodcastcoach.comlive every Saturday.
(44:56):
And the reason I do that isfrom time to time, we will switch
what we're using for technology.
Normally I use eCamm, butmaybe I want to use eVmux for a week
or two and see what it's likeor, you know, all those different
tools.
Well, my audience still knowsto go to askthepodcastcoach.com live.
So, like Daniel said,reinforces your brand.
PodPage has a ton of thosewhere it's slash follow voicemail
(45:20):
newsletter, episode numberit's all.
And the reason for that isnumber one, Slash sponsor is another
one.
It reinforces your brand andthat's really where you want people
to remember so that in theevent TikTok goes away, you know,
they're like, oh, I rememberhis website, though.
And they're on your website.
It's like, hey, welcome,TikTok strandees.
(45:42):
We're here now and I'm on thenew, you know, whatever, Boot blue
ground social media.
I'm trying to think of the opposite.
Let me go register that andtrademark it.
Yes.
Boot brown ground.
Yes.
It's the new social media.
All the kids are doing it.
Yeah.
So did we have any boostagrams?
(46:04):
No, Boostigrams.
I did see some streaming statscome in, so thank you very much for
those and feel free to send boostergrams.
Big ones are better.
All right, that is going to doit for episode 57 of the Future of
podcasting.
If you like this show, tell a friend.
If you hate this show, telltwo friends.
Keep boosting, keep podcastingand keep that website online.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!