June 25, 2025 • 33 mins
As AI continues to transform our workplace, it's not just about keeping up with the tech. It's about staying grounded, sharp and curious. We need to cultivate skills that allow us to adapt, recover from setbacks and navigate complexity. In this episode, we dive into why emotional and cognitive resilience are must-haves for the future and how thinking like an innovator and above your pay grade can set you apart in an AI-powered world.
To talk about this important topic, we’re delighted to welcome Tara Chklovski, founder and CEO of Technovation.
Read the transcript @https://bit.ly/4lJhD4D.
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(00:00):
[MUSIC PLAYING]
(00:02):
TARA CHKLOVSKI: What are you going (00:05):
undefined
to do with all these people?
What if you have all thisincredible progress happening
on the technologyside, which is great,
don't need to stop that,but invest in the humans?
What if we invested inupskilling 50 million employees
in industry and have themmentor 50 million young people
to solve the biggest challengesthat we face using AI?
(00:28):
JILL FINLAYSON (00:32):
Welcome to the Future of Work podcast
with Berkeley Extensionand EDGE in Tech
at the University of California,focused on expanding diversity
and gender equity in tech.
EDGE in Tech is part of theInnovation Hub at CITRIS,
the Center for IT Researchin the Interest of Society
in the Banatao Institute.
UC Berkeley Extension isthe continuing education arm
of the University ofCalifornia at Berkeley.
(00:54):
This month, we're exploringAI and resiliency.
As AI continues totransform our workplace,
it's not just aboutkeeping up with the tech,
it's about staying grounded,sharp, and curious.
We need to cultivateskills that allow
us to adapt, recoverfrom setbacks,
and navigate complexity.
In this episode, we dive intowhy emotional and cognitive
(01:14):
resilience are musthaves for the future,
and how thinkinglike an innovator
and above your paygrade can set you apart
in an AI-powered world.
To learn moreabout this, we turn
to Tara Chklovski, founderand CEO of Technovation,
which is reshaping opportunitiesfor young people in technology.
Inspired by her experiencegrowing up in India
(01:35):
and working as anaerospace engineer,
she developed a widelyadopted education model
that combines mentorship,hands-on learning,
and entrepreneurship to prepareyoung people to thrive in tech.
She has built Technovationinto a movement,
reaching 400,000 plus peopleacross more than 160 countries.
Her research shows thatAI education for girls
(01:56):
could unlock $200 billionopportunity for the world
economy.
Through Technovation andthe AI Forward Alliance,
Tara is preparing 25million young people
to lead AI innovation andtackle global challenges.
Welcome, Tara.
TARA CHKLOVSKI (02:10):
Thank you, Jill.
I'm excited for whatwe're going to chat about.
JILL FINLAYSON: Well, we are in what (02:14):
undefined
some call the FourthIndustrial Revolution.
It's a period of rapidtechnological advancement
characterized by AIand robotics and all
these different technologies.
But we've had rapidchange before,
and I'm wondering what makesthis revolution different
and why is resilience key.
TARA CHKLOVSKI (02:32):
I think we've lived
through the internetrevolution, and this
is completely different.
I've never been in a placewhere almost every second day,
your toolset is improving.
So none of us have livedthrough a time like that.
I can say for myself that I'mprobably 60% more productive,
(02:52):
but that means I'm alsomaybe 80% more tired.
When people are talkingabout, yes, you're
going to make all this moneyand make all this progress
with all these incredibletools, that's absolutely true.
And then I think we'llneed fewer people
to do all this work.
The people who survivein this are the ones
who are going to be resilient.
(03:14):
And I think we haveto teach ourselves
new techniques of managinginformation overload
and being able to actuallyexecute, not just stay
in the safe space ofresearch and recommendations,
but actually, execute realsolutions in the real world
at a much faster pace, meaningwe're going to be super busy.
JILL FINLAYSON (03:33):
So we're having to be more productive,
and we are beingmore productive,
but we're also beingstretched in a lot of ways.
Is there an exampleof what does that mean
to be resilient in the faceof that kind of demand?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (03:46):
I think being super
aware about what's happening,and I think looking ahead.
Because uncertaintycauses fear, because you
don't know how you willadapt or how you will
respond to this new threat.
And so the best thing Ican say and recommend,
and that's whatI'm trying to do,
is spend quite abit of your time
actually looking aheadand planning for it.
(04:08):
There is tons ofinformation out there,
so it's not as if youhave to fly blind.
So you have to adaptyour workday in a way
that you've neverhad to do before.
Because earlier,your manager probably
told you, here's yourjob, here are your KPIs,
here's what you'reresponsible for.
And now, you canactually do all of that.
But guess what?
What you're doing is probablysomething your competitors
(04:30):
are doing as well.
So for yourorganization to survive,
you've got to dosomething different.
I think the speed ofintegration of AI tools
has never happened before.
People talkedabout ChatGPT being
used by 100 million users in arecord time, and why that did
that happen?
Because of existinginfrastructure.
(04:51):
You have electricity, you haveinternet laid out everywhere.
People have devices.
They could access it.
And so you are really buildingon existing infrastructure
for very, very rapid useof powerful technologies.
And it's just compoundingand accelerating.
And so that's whythis phase is so
different from previous phases.
(05:12):
The other piece is that thetools themselves are rapidly
increasing their effectiveness.
So almost every second weekClaude or ChatGPT or Gemini
is releasing a newversion that is
smarter and better and cheaper.
And so what that means for usis that you're able to really
do a lot more than youcould ever imagine,
(05:32):
and that the humanbrain is not changing
at the same pace atwhich these tools are.
And so the same person hasbecome so much more productive,
but your brain isgetting overloaded.
And so you have tofigure out how can you
maintain your energy, whileknowing that these tools are
going to keep improving.
(05:52):
And I think the thirdpiece is that you also
feel a sense of purpose.
It requires a differentmindset to approach.
And one expert fromDatabricks, Databricks
is in the business of trying toget a lot of people to adopt AI.
And she was talkingabout how there's
a massive psychologyof resistance
to adopting these newtools, because you can tell
(06:14):
that your job will be replaced.
So I think that itrequires you to overcome
that fear that my job is goingto be taken away and rather,
think about, well, how can Iuse these powerful technologies
to help my organization surviveand thrive and innovate?
And I think all of us need tochange our mindsets to have
(06:34):
this innovator's mindset.
Knowing what we know, howcan we provide more value
to our customers and clients.
And if we have thatkind of a mindset,
I think our jobs are safe, and Ithink our company will survive.
And then I think, ideally,we increase our sense
of purpose in this process.
JILL FINLAYSON: Speaking of purpose, (06:53):
undefined
you came about thisresearch in this topic
from starting Technovation.
For people who haven't heardof Technovation before,
what is it doing, and how doesit affect purpose and resiliency
in young people.
TARA CHKLOVSKI (07:07):
So I started Technovation
almost 20 years ago.
And the initial missionof this nonprofit
was to bring the mostcutting-edge technologies
to the most underrepresentedgroups in the world,
so that they didn't have to waitfor a savior They could build
the solutions for theproblems they had the most
intimate knowledge for.
And that's what we'vebeen on this long journey
(07:30):
of exploration.
What format ofprogram really helps
change that sense of identityinto one of an innovator
and an entrepreneurand a problem solver.
And over the years,we implemented
and data tested 14different models,
and one model wasreally effective,
which was thisaccelerator model,
(07:50):
where girls find problemsin their communities,
they work in teams, they'resupported by a mentor
from industry or ateacher, and they actually
launch a tech startupthat addresses
a problem that they're facing.
And this entrepreneur's journeyis absolutely transformative
because it is so groundedin resilience and purpose,
(08:12):
and also, that Ican learn anything.
I can teach myself anything,and to do that with people.
So you're doing itwith your peers,
you're doing itwith the mentors.
So that humanlayer of support is
critical to building thatidentity as a change maker.
JILL FINLAYSON (08:27):
How are you helping these young people
future proof themselves?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (08:32):
I think just from that experience,
because there's so fewpeople in the world who
have gone through that hardexperience of launching
a startup.
And to do that early in youreducation and your career
is one of the mostpowerful experiences.
Because you're like, I launchedan app, or I built a company.
(08:53):
I went through thecompetitor research.
I created a business plan.
I pitched in front of judges andexperts from around the world,
and I actually created somethingthat helped some people.
So that experienceis so transformative
that they're like, now, Ican do something harder.
And so you justkeep strengthening
that muscle of innovationand entrepreneurship.
(09:15):
And we see this all overthat the young women,
the kinds ofproblems they take on
get bigger andbigger and bigger.
And that's the best proofof the model working.
JILL FINLAYSON (09:26):
So these young people, I would say,
are the firstAI-native generation.
How do you thinktheir generation
is going to differ fromthe previous generations?
Are they going to stilllearn the same skills
and critical thinking?
Are they going to be able towrite a paper from a blank page,
or are they going to go havesomebody else draft it for them?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (09:45):
I think that's a great question.
I don't know the answer to that.
I think what I've beenfocusing on is, what
is important for humans to doand work backwards from there.
Because if we were tocompare what we learned
and compare it to what youngpeople are learning now,
(10:08):
we approach the questionfrom a nostalgic place, which
may not be the right place.
Just because I learnedto write the hard way
doesn't mean that that'sthe only way to learn it.
And just because Ilearned a lot of road math
or wrote content thatI'm using doesn't
(10:29):
mean that that's the only wayand it's really important.
So I think that there's too muchsubjectivity to this question.
And also, this elementof, oh, they're
going to lose thesevery valuable skills.
And so that's whyI want to frame it
in a completelydifferent way, where
what is left for us to solve.
(10:49):
And guess what, these arethe hardest problems left
for us to solvelike climate crisis,
poverty, good health care, goodeducation, rising inequality,
wealth inequality.
And these kinds ofproblems require
a completely differentset of skills
than we are teaching in schools.
So it's very differentfrom cursive writing,
(11:10):
but I think the problem-solvingmindset and practicing solving
real problems in the classroomis something, maybe, that we
can start to explore better.
Because I've seen younggirls as young as eight
tackle some incrediblyscary, big problems.
And I think we'llget a lot of courage
from actually listeningto young people,
(11:31):
watching them learn andexplore with these tools.
JILL FINLAYSON (11:33):
I work with a lot of startup founders
in the university level,and I feel the same way,
that they're not jaded.
They're willing to try,they're willing to innovate,
and iterate.
What do you think thismeans for universities
and how we teacheducation at that level?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (11:48):
I think it's really important for professors,
I will say, to not be afraidto completely overhaul
their courses, becausethere is such a massive gap
between the education systemand how the world of work
is approaching AI.
We work with maybe1,000 plus companies,
and they are going as fastas possible to integrate AI
(12:13):
into the workplace, becauseit's increasing productivity.
And the education system isjust banning, banning, banning,
banning, trying to bringback paper testing,
trying to Band-Aid their wayaround it, because everybody
is in a state offear of what do we do
and waiting for someone togive them a set of next steps.
(12:37):
And I think it just behoovesevery educator to say,
I owe it to my students toactually spend this summer
thinking about thedata is all out there.
It's absolutely a lot there.
That AI 2027 Reportis a powerful report,
where it talks abouthow AI will improve
over the next year and a half.
(12:57):
Take that, and then say, howcan I best prepare my students
for this tool set,while keeping in mind
what are the key thingsthey learned from my class
that I think will be critical?
And I would say use AI tohelp you bridge the gap.
JILL FINLAYSON (13:14):
For us who have been out of college
for a while, whatwould you say we
should be thinkingabout in terms
of using AI to thinkabove our pay grade,
or to expand our career options?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (13:26):
That's something I was hearing a while ago when
people were like, well, I'mdoing what I was told to do.
These are my KPIs.
And those have just literallyjust gone out the window.
For instance, I heard thisfrom a chief marketing officer
of a pretty big company,and she was so excited
(13:48):
that they are actuallyusing all these GenAI tools
to create six different versionsof content that would then
go on to six differentsocial media channels.
And so she washitting all her KPIs,
and her team were hittingall the KPIs way ahead
of schedule in much less time.
And I was like, what do youthink the user's experience is
(14:08):
now, when the pooruser is being inundated
by AI-generated content,not just from you,
but from yourcompetitors as well?
So you're not thinking about,is my work actually helping
my company succeed, like are weproviding value to the customer.
And she said, that'sabove my pay grade.
And this was a C-suite leader.
(14:28):
Because she thought thisis a CEO-level decision.
And that really stuckwith me because I
was like, that is what we needto be doing, where you can cross
into other people's lanes.
Because you need to be askingthis larger question, what's not
working, why is it notworking, and keep asking five
whys until you get tothe real root cause,
and then you canactually innovate.
(14:50):
And you bring incrediblevalue and perspective
based on your yearsin the organization,
but you can fall back on, well,that's above my pay grade.
And so I think that'sa challenge for us,
and I think we gottastep into that.
JILL FINLAYSON (15:04):
That's quite an interesting challenge.
Where is productivityhelpful, and where is it
counterproductive?
TARA CHKLOVSKI: You now have access (15:10):
undefined
to incrediblesubject-matter experts.
Previously if I'mhaving HR issues
or if I'm not beinga good leader,
I would have to find agood executive coach.
And finding a goodexecutive coach is not easy.
They come expensive.
They may not have time.
And now, I can justactually ask my problem
and get really incredibleadvice on what to do.
(15:34):
And you can actuallygo all the way and say,
these are my constraints.
How do I implement this?
This is my timeline.
How do I cut it down, and howdo I make this actionable?
How do I remind myself tomake this behavior change?
So I think you just gotaccess to an incredible set
of subject-matter experts thatwill help not only increase
your productivity, butyour effectiveness.
(15:55):
But you have to askthe right questions.
And prompt engineering putsthis in a very too unassuming
of a category,whereas it's really
a much higher level question,which is, why are we doing this?
What are we doing?
How can we do this better?
And then trying toremind ourselves to
do this on a regular basis.
JILL FINLAYSON (16:15):
We've all heard that a lot of jobs
are going away, orat least many of them
are going to changesignificantly.
So you're working witha lot of young people.
They're trying to figureout their careers,
where they want to go.
What are you seeing interms of demand growing,
and what are you sayingthey should focus on
to equip themselves forthese new directions?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (16:35):
I think it's a bit of a scary situation
for young people at themoment, because a lot of people
are using automation andAI tools to substitute
for entry-level careers, andso it's harder for young people
to get started.
And I think that I'venever encountered
so many young people comingto me for unpaid internships.
(16:57):
And that's interestingin a scary sign.
I have two thoughtson this, one,
to companies where don'tbe too shortsighted.
It is important tohave young people be
part of your ecosystem.
Otherwise, you'lljust slow down.
You need a fresh set of eyes.
You need people like you weresaying, who are not jaded.
And sometimes Icatch myself saying,
I'm not doing this becauseit failed five years ago.
(17:20):
That was five years ago.
Maybe you can try it again.
So you need a youngperson to question.
There's an intangiblevalue that's
beyond just skills andexpertise and cost.
The second thing that Isay to young people is,
don't wait around and use itas a badge of honor to say, oh,
I applied to 2,000 places.
And it's very demoralizing to dothat kind of job hunt right now.
(17:42):
And I'll say, spend sometime actually thinking
about what are your values.
What do you want to work on.
And then actually try to finda company that you admire,
or that you think you wouldwant to work in and actually
put in maybe, a couple of monthsof work trying to figure out
what is their product,how could they do better.
(18:04):
And then actually gobuild a prototype.
You may not have the skills,but you have the tools
to actually build a prototype.
And if somebodywere to come to me
and say, hey, I saw yourcompany was running this
and they have a problem,and here's a prototype,
and I tested itwith so many people,
I'll hire thatperson on the spot.
Because what have you shown?
You've shown initiative.
You've shown hard work.
You've shown ability to workin uncertain situations,
(18:27):
and you've showndrive and the ability
to learn new skills and toolsthat you probably didn't know.
Those are all the traitsof someone very, very
successful in thecurrent situation.
But it requiresyou to say, OK, I'm
going to dedicatethree months of my time
on something like this.
And people hate that whenthey cut off options,
(18:50):
because the morechoices you have,
you think you're better off.
You're richer with more choices,but sometimes too many choices
can really be the wrong thing.
And so you want tonarrow down and say,
I'm going to put allmy eggs in one basket
and spend three monthsof my life doing that.
JILL FINLAYSON (19:05):
I agree with you about the importance
of having that appliedlearning and also,
figuring out reflectingwhat is it that you actually
want to spend your time on.
Because you're going to spend atremendous amount of your time
at work.
You should be on somethingthat you actually care about.
It does concern me that peopleare taking more unpaid interns,
because that, obviously,exacerbates inequalities,
because only those who canafford to take internships
(19:27):
unpaid are successful,and then they
get the paid internship afterthat because of the unpaid.
I would encourage, as you justsaid, companies to really invest
in internships, becauseof the value, not just
the pipeline andthe talent and how
you're going to source greatemployees in the future,
but the insights and thenovelty and the thoughts
(19:48):
that you're going togain from those interns
is so absolutely important.
So let's talk a littlebit about AI fundamentals,
because in terms of whatpeople need to be aware of
and understand.
And then I want togo into use cases,
because a lot of times peoplesay I need to learn AI.
And I'm like, for what?
What are you tryingto solve for?
(20:08):
Can you talk aboutjust baseline,
what do you thinkpeople need to learn
about AI as a step in the door?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (20:14):
I think it goes down to your feeling
comfortable in thisuncertain world.
And I think that especially,I will say for women,
because social normshave held women back
from being the earlyadopters of technology.
And I think it'sreally, really important
to address some ofthese fears head on,
(20:36):
and you're usuallyafraid of the unknown.
And I term is, in itself, ascary term because of media.
And so I would say for your ownsense of empowerment and for you
to, on a daily basis, when yousee all these articles and news
reports about AI and howit's changing the world,
(20:57):
you will actually understandall of that much better
if you were to goone layer deeper.
And it is the easiest thingto download either Claude
or ChatGPT onto your phoneand just do as an initial just
to start playing with itand ask it a few things.
You can actually think aboutwhat are some problems that you
(21:18):
want to work on for work, andtry to warm it up that way
and get started.
But ideally, you actuallywant to learn how to code,
because you can justask it, I wanted
to make an interactivejournal for myself that
would give me inspiring,beautiful paintings
and inspiring writingquotes and keep me
motivated to write every day.
(21:39):
And I was able to build thisreally beautiful app for myself.
And I was using thisinterface called windsurf,
and I kept asking it, Ihave no Python experience.
How should I get started?
And it told mewhat exactly to do.
And then I didn'tunderstand anything.
I'd say teach it to me, and itwas breaking it all down to me.
(21:59):
And if anything, I haven'tused that journal app.
I will say that.
But that enormoussense of confidence
you get, because society doesrevere software engineers
because we pay them a lot.
That's one indicator.
And when you breakopen this box of coding
(22:20):
and this mysteriousbox of technology
and you begin to understandthe core concepts, if anything,
you just feel so muchstronger and unafraid.
And you're like, I know that.
I got that, if anything else,just that feeling of confidence,
it's worth it.
And then you just keep goinghigher and higher from there.
(22:40):
Because you'll be able tofollow more technical articles.
The more technicalarticles you follow,
you'll be able tolook further ahead,
and it'll just helpyour career, but also
your personal well-being becauseAI is enveloping everything
that we do.
JILL FINLAYSON (22:55):
So you've already given some helpful use
cases, which is justgetting strategies
for solving problems at work.
So that's an entry point, butwhat are some of the other use
cases that you've seenearly adopters take
on that have really madea difference in their job?
TARA CHKLOVSKI: I mean, if you're (23:12):
undefined
thinking about what types ofprompts, I think it really
comes back to asking,what should we
be doing to do our jobbetter for our users.
And you are the expert.
And so these are probablyquestions that maybe don't even
show up in your day-to-day, evenyour quarterly meetings, even
(23:33):
your board meetings, because youmay not have that time set aside
as an organization for suchdeep reflection on strategy.
But nobody is stopping you fromputting that in and actually
figuring that out.
And so earlier, thecompany or the CEO
would probably outsource thisjob to a consulting company.
(23:54):
And if you, McKinsey orAccenture or whatever,
this would cost a lot of money.
And then they would comeback with a very big brief
and a set of deck slides.
They embed a whole team into theorganization, do all the case
studies and interviews,and then they come up
with a set ofrecommendations to improve.
You can do that yourself.
JILL FINLAYSON (24:14):
And I would argue you can do it better.
TARA CHKLOVSKI (24:16):
You could do it better.
JILL FINLAYSON: Because you actually (24:17):
undefined
understand your customers.
Something to think aboutin your organization, what
are some questionsthat people have
to stop what they're doingto go solve that problem,
that's an opportunity.
TARA CHKLOVSKI (24:27):
Absolutely.
And I think some ofthe low-hanging fruit
is very exciting totry to figure out,
what do you want to automate,and how do you want to improve.
But I think the eventualvalue will actually
come from some of theinnovations that will
help your organization succeed.
Because how doesa company continue
to provide valueto shareholders,
assuming that you'll continueto innovate in a market that's
(24:49):
highly competitive.
So where is that bankof innovative ideas?
I think if employees arecoming up with that, I mean,
that's powerful.
JILL FINLAYSON (24:57):
Going back to the really big picture here,
not every part of the worldhas access to electricity.
Not every part of the worldhas high-speed internet.
How do we look atthis AI revolution
and make it more equitableso we don't end up
exacerbating wealth inequality?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (25:15):
I think that's an interesting point,
and one question is, whoseresponsibility is it?
I think it's the responsibilityof each country's government
to actually tackle that problem.
And having worked in somany different countries,
especially with communities thatdon't have access to electricity
devices, internet.
And this is where I feelthat young people actually
(25:36):
have a role to play, and we seethis with Technovation girls,
where many of the apps inmany countries they create
are around corruptionand using technology
for increased transparencyand accountability.
And I think that this iswhere educators can also
play a role, where we areempowering young people to take
civic responsibilityand to demand a better
(25:57):
government, a betterstructure, and using
these powerful toolsto uncover corruption
and to hold people accountable.
I think that's wherethe solution is.
And I am very concernedthat as these tools become
very powerful, companieswill let go of people,
because a lot willget automated,
(26:18):
and that means that wealthwill be concentrated
in the hands of a few.
Again, education isprobably the only path
where we teach empathy.
We teach people whohave a lot of power
to think aboutthose who don't look
like them, who don't have thesame sort of lived experience.
JILL FINLAYSON (26:36):
So if the technology is changing so fast,
are humans changing fast enough,are they evolving fast enough,
or is there something we needto be doing more proactively?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (26:45):
I think, of course,
the human brain hasn't changed,and it will not change.
But I don't know whetherthe brain physically
needs to keep up because itis a very powerful entity.
And I think that we are capableof changing and adapting.
I mean, humans survive invery harsh circumstances.
So if anything, we are equippedwith the right internal
(27:08):
mechanisms tosurvive and thrive,
but I think we have tochange the way we think.
And to me, itreally is embracing
the future and the uncertaintyand not hiding here.
JILL FINLAYSON (27:19):
So if you were to set
a bold target, your bigvision, what would it be?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (27:23):
I am curious because I
think I'd mentioned that AI 2027reported earlier, it presents
a very technocentric view, and Iwant to present a parallel view,
because they are, what, 8.2billion people on this Earth.
And the number of robots in theworld is much smaller than that.
And so what are you goingto do with all these people?
And I think, what if you haveall this incredible progress
(27:44):
happening on the technologyside, which is great,
don't need to stop that,but invest in the humans.
What if we invested inupskilling 50 million employees
in industry and have themmentor 50 million young people
to solve the biggest challengesthat we face using AI.
So I think that istotally possible to do.
(28:04):
Right now, the costof upskilling someone
to have this innovator'smindset and be completely
familiar with AI is $200.
That's not much.
And again, $200 to completelytransform a young person's life.
And so these are investmentsthat can be made,
and we have all theresearch, all the curriculum,
(28:25):
all the infrastructureneeded to upskill and update
the human infrastructure.
JILL FINLAYSON (28:31):
Do you envision, as part
of that, more collaborationbetween corporate and nonprofit
organizations?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (28:38):
I mean, that's always has been the case.
We all always collaborate.
So I think the moreimportant thing
is to have planet-sized goals.
I think industry has alwayscollaborated with nonprofits,
and nonprofits survive onfunding from individuals
and corporations.
But I think the goalshave been too small,
because people are afraid.
People are afraid of settingbig goals because, of course,
(29:00):
maybe their tenureas CEO ends and they
didn't meet theirtargets, and I think
that's why the goalshaven't been big enough.
JILL FINLAYSON (29:07):
So looping back to Technovation
and what you've learnedfrom that program in terms
of what works and doesn'twork in terms of growing
and upskilling talent,what would be your template
or your guide forpeople who want to take
on a really big goal like this?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (29:24):
Partner with us.
We have been doingthis for a while,
and we are partneringwith UNICEF at the moment
to bring this kind ofAI-accelerated program
to 25 million youngpeople, and that
means we need millionsof industry mentors,
and they are upskilling as well.
So this infrastructureis very, very critical.
But the most importantthing I learned
(29:44):
was that just putting acourse online and now,
even adding an AI chatbot onit is not going to do anything.
You're not going to get thatfundamental innovator's mindset
shift, because welearn best from humans.
That's why it'simportant to really have
the human-to-humancollaboration and learning,
(30:06):
and that takes time and effort.
And that's what we've builtover the past 20 years,
is this very thick layerof human-supported network
of learning and learners.
And that's thenumber one lesson I
learned that the fastestway to get to scale
is not the one that resultsin long-term change.
So don't look forthe quick wins,
look for the really resilientfoundational programs.
JILL FINLAYSON (30:29):
So this isn't really
just technically upskillingor building competencies.
It's really the mindsetshift, the innovation shift.
And why hasn't thishappened to date?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (30:42):
I think because we like short-term solutions,
and we love quick numbers.
And I think that wejust lose our attention.
It's taken me 20 years tofigure a lot of this out,
to build a resilient programand to have long-term impact.
People burn out after 10 years.
It's a hard job.
And so that's why, I mean,we started with resilience.
(31:03):
I have first-handexperience of what it means
to weather a lot of storms.
And so many times, CEOsdon't have the resilience
to stay in the game long enoughto actually solve some very
complex social problems.
I'm an aerospaceengineer by training.
Too often, engineers come inthinking it's a simple problem,
but social problems are verydifferent from engineering
(31:24):
problems.
And so it requires a completelydifferent time scale.
JILL FINLAYSON (31:27):
So what are your closing words of advice
for resilience for folks whoare both in the workplace
and those who are tryingto enter the workforce?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (31:35):
I think don't be afraid to think really big,
and spend maybe 20, 30 minutesa day just going back and forth.
You can use Grok,you can use Claude.
You can use ChatGPT.
You can use Gemini.
You can use anything.
But just going back and forthabout thinking maybe even
planet size.
Don't think small,think planet size,
(31:57):
and spend a sufficientamount of time
going back and forthwith an AI assistant,
and you'll be surprised.
It'll change the way you think.
It'll change your perspective,and it'll empower you.
JILL FINLAYSON (32:08):
I love it, leaving people
with planet-sized ambition.
Thank you so muchfor joining us, Tara.
TARA CHKLOVSKI (32:14):
Thank you, Jill.
That was a fun conversation.
JILL FINLAYSON (32:16):
And with that, I hope
you've enjoyed this latestin a long series of podcasts
that we'll be sendingyour way this month.
Please share withfriends and colleagues
who may be interested in takingthis Future of Work journey
with us.
And make sure to check outto extension.berkeley.edu
to find a variety ofcourses and certificates
to help you thrive in thisnew working landscape.
(32:36):
And to see what's comingup next at EDGE in Tech,
go ahead and visitedge.berkeley.edu.
Thanks so much forlistening, and I'll
be back next month to continueour Future of Work journey.
The Future of Work podcastis hosted by Jill Finlayson,
produced by Sarah Benzuly,and edited by Matt DiPietro
and Brandon Gregory.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
(00:02):
TARA CHKLOVSKI: What are you going (00:05):
undefined
to do with all these people?
What if you have all thisincredible progress happening
on the technologyside, which is great,
don't need to stop that,but invest in the humans?
What if we invested inupskilling 50 million employees
in industry and have themmentor 50 million young people
to solve the biggest challengesthat we face using AI?
(00:28):
JILL FINLAYSON (00:32):
Welcome to the Future of Work podcast
with Berkeley Extensionand EDGE in Tech
at the University of California,focused on expanding diversity
and gender equity in tech.
EDGE in Tech is part of theInnovation Hub at CITRIS,
the Center for IT Researchin the Interest of Society
in the Banatao Institute.
UC Berkeley Extension isthe continuing education arm
of the University ofCalifornia at Berkeley.
(00:54):
This month, we're exploringAI and resiliency.
As AI continues totransform our workplace,
it's not just aboutkeeping up with the tech,
it's about staying grounded,sharp, and curious.
We need to cultivateskills that allow
us to adapt, recoverfrom setbacks,
and navigate complexity.
In this episode, we dive intowhy emotional and cognitive
(01:14):
resilience are musthaves for the future,
and how thinkinglike an innovator
and above your paygrade can set you apart
in an AI-powered world.
To learn moreabout this, we turn
to Tara Chklovski, founderand CEO of Technovation,
which is reshaping opportunitiesfor young people in technology.
Inspired by her experiencegrowing up in India
(01:35):
and working as anaerospace engineer,
she developed a widelyadopted education model
that combines mentorship,hands-on learning,
and entrepreneurship to prepareyoung people to thrive in tech.
She has built Technovationinto a movement,
reaching 400,000 plus peopleacross more than 160 countries.
Her research shows thatAI education for girls
(01:56):
could unlock $200 billionopportunity for the world
economy.
Through Technovation andthe AI Forward Alliance,
Tara is preparing 25million young people
to lead AI innovation andtackle global challenges.
Welcome, Tara.
TARA CHKLOVSKI (02:10):
Thank you, Jill.
I'm excited for whatwe're going to chat about.
JILL FINLAYSON: Well, we are in what (02:14):
undefined
some call the FourthIndustrial Revolution.
It's a period of rapidtechnological advancement
characterized by AIand robotics and all
these different technologies.
But we've had rapidchange before,
and I'm wondering what makesthis revolution different
and why is resilience key.
TARA CHKLOVSKI (02:32):
I think we've lived
through the internetrevolution, and this
is completely different.
I've never been in a placewhere almost every second day,
your toolset is improving.
So none of us have livedthrough a time like that.
I can say for myself that I'mprobably 60% more productive,
(02:52):
but that means I'm alsomaybe 80% more tired.
When people are talkingabout, yes, you're
going to make all this moneyand make all this progress
with all these incredibletools, that's absolutely true.
And then I think we'llneed fewer people
to do all this work.
The people who survivein this are the ones
who are going to be resilient.
(03:14):
And I think we haveto teach ourselves
new techniques of managinginformation overload
and being able to actuallyexecute, not just stay
in the safe space ofresearch and recommendations,
but actually, execute realsolutions in the real world
at a much faster pace, meaningwe're going to be super busy.
JILL FINLAYSON (03:33):
So we're having to be more productive,
and we are beingmore productive,
but we're also beingstretched in a lot of ways.
Is there an exampleof what does that mean
to be resilient in the faceof that kind of demand?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (03:46):
I think being super
aware about what's happening,and I think looking ahead.
Because uncertaintycauses fear, because you
don't know how you willadapt or how you will
respond to this new threat.
And so the best thing Ican say and recommend,
and that's whatI'm trying to do,
is spend quite abit of your time
actually looking aheadand planning for it.
(04:08):
There is tons ofinformation out there,
so it's not as if youhave to fly blind.
So you have to adaptyour workday in a way
that you've neverhad to do before.
Because earlier,your manager probably
told you, here's yourjob, here are your KPIs,
here's what you'reresponsible for.
And now, you canactually do all of that.
But guess what?
What you're doing is probablysomething your competitors
(04:30):
are doing as well.
So for yourorganization to survive,
you've got to dosomething different.
I think the speed ofintegration of AI tools
has never happened before.
People talkedabout ChatGPT being
used by 100 million users in arecord time, and why that did
that happen?
Because of existinginfrastructure.
(04:51):
You have electricity, you haveinternet laid out everywhere.
People have devices.
They could access it.
And so you are really buildingon existing infrastructure
for very, very rapid useof powerful technologies.
And it's just compoundingand accelerating.
And so that's whythis phase is so
different from previous phases.
(05:12):
The other piece is that thetools themselves are rapidly
increasing their effectiveness.
So almost every second weekClaude or ChatGPT or Gemini
is releasing a newversion that is
smarter and better and cheaper.
And so what that means for usis that you're able to really
do a lot more than youcould ever imagine,
(05:32):
and that the humanbrain is not changing
at the same pace atwhich these tools are.
And so the same person hasbecome so much more productive,
but your brain isgetting overloaded.
And so you have tofigure out how can you
maintain your energy, whileknowing that these tools are
going to keep improving.
(05:52):
And I think the thirdpiece is that you also
feel a sense of purpose.
It requires a differentmindset to approach.
And one expert fromDatabricks, Databricks
is in the business of trying toget a lot of people to adopt AI.
And she was talkingabout how there's
a massive psychologyof resistance
to adopting these newtools, because you can tell
(06:14):
that your job will be replaced.
So I think that itrequires you to overcome
that fear that my job is goingto be taken away and rather,
think about, well, how can Iuse these powerful technologies
to help my organization surviveand thrive and innovate?
And I think all of us need tochange our mindsets to have
(06:34):
this innovator's mindset.
Knowing what we know, howcan we provide more value
to our customers and clients.
And if we have thatkind of a mindset,
I think our jobs are safe, and Ithink our company will survive.
And then I think, ideally,we increase our sense
of purpose in this process.
JILL FINLAYSON: Speaking of purpose, (06:53):
undefined
you came about thisresearch in this topic
from starting Technovation.
For people who haven't heardof Technovation before,
what is it doing, and how doesit affect purpose and resiliency
in young people.
TARA CHKLOVSKI (07:07):
So I started Technovation
almost 20 years ago.
And the initial missionof this nonprofit
was to bring the mostcutting-edge technologies
to the most underrepresentedgroups in the world,
so that they didn't have to waitfor a savior They could build
the solutions for theproblems they had the most
intimate knowledge for.
And that's what we'vebeen on this long journey
(07:30):
of exploration.
What format ofprogram really helps
change that sense of identityinto one of an innovator
and an entrepreneurand a problem solver.
And over the years,we implemented
and data tested 14different models,
and one model wasreally effective,
which was thisaccelerator model,
(07:50):
where girls find problemsin their communities,
they work in teams, they'resupported by a mentor
from industry or ateacher, and they actually
launch a tech startupthat addresses
a problem that they're facing.
And this entrepreneur's journeyis absolutely transformative
because it is so groundedin resilience and purpose,
(08:12):
and also, that Ican learn anything.
I can teach myself anything,and to do that with people.
So you're doing itwith your peers,
you're doing itwith the mentors.
So that humanlayer of support is
critical to building thatidentity as a change maker.
JILL FINLAYSON (08:27):
How are you helping these young people
future proof themselves?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (08:32):
I think just from that experience,
because there's so fewpeople in the world who
have gone through that hardexperience of launching
a startup.
And to do that early in youreducation and your career
is one of the mostpowerful experiences.
Because you're like, I launchedan app, or I built a company.
(08:53):
I went through thecompetitor research.
I created a business plan.
I pitched in front of judges andexperts from around the world,
and I actually created somethingthat helped some people.
So that experienceis so transformative
that they're like, now, Ican do something harder.
And so you justkeep strengthening
that muscle of innovationand entrepreneurship.
(09:15):
And we see this all overthat the young women,
the kinds ofproblems they take on
get bigger andbigger and bigger.
And that's the best proofof the model working.
JILL FINLAYSON (09:26):
So these young people, I would say,
are the firstAI-native generation.
How do you thinktheir generation
is going to differ fromthe previous generations?
Are they going to stilllearn the same skills
and critical thinking?
Are they going to be able towrite a paper from a blank page,
or are they going to go havesomebody else draft it for them?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (09:45):
I think that's a great question.
I don't know the answer to that.
I think what I've beenfocusing on is, what
is important for humans to doand work backwards from there.
Because if we were tocompare what we learned
and compare it to what youngpeople are learning now,
(10:08):
we approach the questionfrom a nostalgic place, which
may not be the right place.
Just because I learnedto write the hard way
doesn't mean that that'sthe only way to learn it.
And just because Ilearned a lot of road math
or wrote content thatI'm using doesn't
(10:29):
mean that that's the only wayand it's really important.
So I think that there's too muchsubjectivity to this question.
And also, this elementof, oh, they're
going to lose thesevery valuable skills.
And so that's whyI want to frame it
in a completelydifferent way, where
what is left for us to solve.
(10:49):
And guess what, these arethe hardest problems left
for us to solvelike climate crisis,
poverty, good health care, goodeducation, rising inequality,
wealth inequality.
And these kinds ofproblems require
a completely differentset of skills
than we are teaching in schools.
So it's very differentfrom cursive writing,
(11:10):
but I think the problem-solvingmindset and practicing solving
real problems in the classroomis something, maybe, that we
can start to explore better.
Because I've seen younggirls as young as eight
tackle some incrediblyscary, big problems.
And I think we'llget a lot of courage
from actually listeningto young people,
(11:31):
watching them learn andexplore with these tools.
JILL FINLAYSON (11:33):
I work with a lot of startup founders
in the university level,and I feel the same way,
that they're not jaded.
They're willing to try,they're willing to innovate,
and iterate.
What do you think thismeans for universities
and how we teacheducation at that level?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (11:48):
I think it's really important for professors,
I will say, to not be afraidto completely overhaul
their courses, becausethere is such a massive gap
between the education systemand how the world of work
is approaching AI.
We work with maybe1,000 plus companies,
and they are going as fastas possible to integrate AI
(12:13):
into the workplace, becauseit's increasing productivity.
And the education system isjust banning, banning, banning,
banning, trying to bringback paper testing,
trying to Band-Aid their wayaround it, because everybody
is in a state offear of what do we do
and waiting for someone togive them a set of next steps.
(12:37):
And I think it just behoovesevery educator to say,
I owe it to my students toactually spend this summer
thinking about thedata is all out there.
It's absolutely a lot there.
That AI 2027 Reportis a powerful report,
where it talks abouthow AI will improve
over the next year and a half.
(12:57):
Take that, and then say, howcan I best prepare my students
for this tool set,while keeping in mind
what are the key thingsthey learned from my class
that I think will be critical?
And I would say use AI tohelp you bridge the gap.
JILL FINLAYSON (13:14):
For us who have been out of college
for a while, whatwould you say we
should be thinkingabout in terms
of using AI to thinkabove our pay grade,
or to expand our career options?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (13:26):
That's something I was hearing a while ago when
people were like, well, I'mdoing what I was told to do.
These are my KPIs.
And those have just literallyjust gone out the window.
For instance, I heard thisfrom a chief marketing officer
of a pretty big company,and she was so excited
(13:48):
that they are actuallyusing all these GenAI tools
to create six different versionsof content that would then
go on to six differentsocial media channels.
And so she washitting all her KPIs,
and her team were hittingall the KPIs way ahead
of schedule in much less time.
And I was like, what do youthink the user's experience is
(14:08):
now, when the pooruser is being inundated
by AI-generated content,not just from you,
but from yourcompetitors as well?
So you're not thinking about,is my work actually helping
my company succeed, like are weproviding value to the customer.
And she said, that'sabove my pay grade.
And this was a C-suite leader.
(14:28):
Because she thought thisis a CEO-level decision.
And that really stuckwith me because I
was like, that is what we needto be doing, where you can cross
into other people's lanes.
Because you need to be askingthis larger question, what's not
working, why is it notworking, and keep asking five
whys until you get tothe real root cause,
and then you canactually innovate.
(14:50):
And you bring incrediblevalue and perspective
based on your yearsin the organization,
but you can fall back on, well,that's above my pay grade.
And so I think that'sa challenge for us,
and I think we gottastep into that.
JILL FINLAYSON (15:04):
That's quite an interesting challenge.
Where is productivityhelpful, and where is it
counterproductive?
TARA CHKLOVSKI: You now have access (15:10):
undefined
to incrediblesubject-matter experts.
Previously if I'mhaving HR issues
or if I'm not beinga good leader,
I would have to find agood executive coach.
And finding a goodexecutive coach is not easy.
They come expensive.
They may not have time.
And now, I can justactually ask my problem
and get really incredibleadvice on what to do.
(15:34):
And you can actuallygo all the way and say,
these are my constraints.
How do I implement this?
This is my timeline.
How do I cut it down, and howdo I make this actionable?
How do I remind myself tomake this behavior change?
So I think you just gotaccess to an incredible set
of subject-matter experts thatwill help not only increase
your productivity, butyour effectiveness.
(15:55):
But you have to askthe right questions.
And prompt engineering putsthis in a very too unassuming
of a category,whereas it's really
a much higher level question,which is, why are we doing this?
What are we doing?
How can we do this better?
And then trying toremind ourselves to
do this on a regular basis.
JILL FINLAYSON (16:15):
We've all heard that a lot of jobs
are going away, orat least many of them
are going to changesignificantly.
So you're working witha lot of young people.
They're trying to figureout their careers,
where they want to go.
What are you seeing interms of demand growing,
and what are you sayingthey should focus on
to equip themselves forthese new directions?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (16:35):
I think it's a bit of a scary situation
for young people at themoment, because a lot of people
are using automation andAI tools to substitute
for entry-level careers, andso it's harder for young people
to get started.
And I think that I'venever encountered
so many young people comingto me for unpaid internships.
(16:57):
And that's interestingin a scary sign.
I have two thoughtson this, one,
to companies where don'tbe too shortsighted.
It is important tohave young people be
part of your ecosystem.
Otherwise, you'lljust slow down.
You need a fresh set of eyes.
You need people like you weresaying, who are not jaded.
And sometimes Icatch myself saying,
I'm not doing this becauseit failed five years ago.
(17:20):
That was five years ago.
Maybe you can try it again.
So you need a youngperson to question.
There's an intangiblevalue that's
beyond just skills andexpertise and cost.
The second thing that Isay to young people is,
don't wait around and use itas a badge of honor to say, oh,
I applied to 2,000 places.
And it's very demoralizing to dothat kind of job hunt right now.
(17:42):
And I'll say, spend sometime actually thinking
about what are your values.
What do you want to work on.
And then actually try to finda company that you admire,
or that you think you wouldwant to work in and actually
put in maybe, a couple of monthsof work trying to figure out
what is their product,how could they do better.
(18:04):
And then actually gobuild a prototype.
You may not have the skills,but you have the tools
to actually build a prototype.
And if somebodywere to come to me
and say, hey, I saw yourcompany was running this
and they have a problem,and here's a prototype,
and I tested itwith so many people,
I'll hire thatperson on the spot.
Because what have you shown?
You've shown initiative.
You've shown hard work.
You've shown ability to workin uncertain situations,
(18:27):
and you've showndrive and the ability
to learn new skills and toolsthat you probably didn't know.
Those are all the traitsof someone very, very
successful in thecurrent situation.
But it requiresyou to say, OK, I'm
going to dedicatethree months of my time
on something like this.
And people hate that whenthey cut off options,
(18:50):
because the morechoices you have,
you think you're better off.
You're richer with more choices,but sometimes too many choices
can really be the wrong thing.
And so you want tonarrow down and say,
I'm going to put allmy eggs in one basket
and spend three monthsof my life doing that.
JILL FINLAYSON (19:05):
I agree with you about the importance
of having that appliedlearning and also,
figuring out reflectingwhat is it that you actually
want to spend your time on.
Because you're going to spend atremendous amount of your time
at work.
You should be on somethingthat you actually care about.
It does concern me that peopleare taking more unpaid interns,
because that, obviously,exacerbates inequalities,
because only those who canafford to take internships
(19:27):
unpaid are successful,and then they
get the paid internship afterthat because of the unpaid.
I would encourage, as you justsaid, companies to really invest
in internships, becauseof the value, not just
the pipeline andthe talent and how
you're going to source greatemployees in the future,
but the insights and thenovelty and the thoughts
(19:48):
that you're going togain from those interns
is so absolutely important.
So let's talk a littlebit about AI fundamentals,
because in terms of whatpeople need to be aware of
and understand.
And then I want togo into use cases,
because a lot of times peoplesay I need to learn AI.
And I'm like, for what?
What are you tryingto solve for?
(20:08):
Can you talk aboutjust baseline,
what do you thinkpeople need to learn
about AI as a step in the door?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (20:14):
I think it goes down to your feeling
comfortable in thisuncertain world.
And I think that especially,I will say for women,
because social normshave held women back
from being the earlyadopters of technology.
And I think it'sreally, really important
to address some ofthese fears head on,
(20:36):
and you're usuallyafraid of the unknown.
And I term is, in itself, ascary term because of media.
And so I would say for your ownsense of empowerment and for you
to, on a daily basis, when yousee all these articles and news
reports about AI and howit's changing the world,
(20:57):
you will actually understandall of that much better
if you were to goone layer deeper.
And it is the easiest thingto download either Claude
or ChatGPT onto your phoneand just do as an initial just
to start playing with itand ask it a few things.
You can actually think aboutwhat are some problems that you
(21:18):
want to work on for work, andtry to warm it up that way
and get started.
But ideally, you actuallywant to learn how to code,
because you can justask it, I wanted
to make an interactivejournal for myself that
would give me inspiring,beautiful paintings
and inspiring writingquotes and keep me
motivated to write every day.
(21:39):
And I was able to build thisreally beautiful app for myself.
And I was using thisinterface called windsurf,
and I kept asking it, Ihave no Python experience.
How should I get started?
And it told mewhat exactly to do.
And then I didn'tunderstand anything.
I'd say teach it to me, and itwas breaking it all down to me.
(21:59):
And if anything, I haven'tused that journal app.
I will say that.
But that enormoussense of confidence
you get, because society doesrevere software engineers
because we pay them a lot.
That's one indicator.
And when you breakopen this box of coding
(22:20):
and this mysteriousbox of technology
and you begin to understandthe core concepts, if anything,
you just feel so muchstronger and unafraid.
And you're like, I know that.
I got that, if anything else,just that feeling of confidence,
it's worth it.
And then you just keep goinghigher and higher from there.
(22:40):
Because you'll be able tofollow more technical articles.
The more technicalarticles you follow,
you'll be able tolook further ahead,
and it'll just helpyour career, but also
your personal well-being becauseAI is enveloping everything
that we do.
JILL FINLAYSON (22:55):
So you've already given some helpful use
cases, which is justgetting strategies
for solving problems at work.
So that's an entry point, butwhat are some of the other use
cases that you've seenearly adopters take
on that have really madea difference in their job?
TARA CHKLOVSKI: I mean, if you're (23:12):
undefined
thinking about what types ofprompts, I think it really
comes back to asking,what should we
be doing to do our jobbetter for our users.
And you are the expert.
And so these are probablyquestions that maybe don't even
show up in your day-to-day, evenyour quarterly meetings, even
(23:33):
your board meetings, because youmay not have that time set aside
as an organization for suchdeep reflection on strategy.
But nobody is stopping you fromputting that in and actually
figuring that out.
And so earlier, thecompany or the CEO
would probably outsource thisjob to a consulting company.
(23:54):
And if you, McKinsey orAccenture or whatever,
this would cost a lot of money.
And then they would comeback with a very big brief
and a set of deck slides.
They embed a whole team into theorganization, do all the case
studies and interviews,and then they come up
with a set ofrecommendations to improve.
You can do that yourself.
JILL FINLAYSON (24:14):
And I would argue you can do it better.
TARA CHKLOVSKI (24:16):
You could do it better.
JILL FINLAYSON: Because you actually (24:17):
undefined
understand your customers.
Something to think aboutin your organization, what
are some questionsthat people have
to stop what they're doingto go solve that problem,
that's an opportunity.
TARA CHKLOVSKI (24:27):
Absolutely.
And I think some ofthe low-hanging fruit
is very exciting totry to figure out,
what do you want to automate,and how do you want to improve.
But I think the eventualvalue will actually
come from some of theinnovations that will
help your organization succeed.
Because how doesa company continue
to provide valueto shareholders,
assuming that you'll continueto innovate in a market that's
(24:49):
highly competitive.
So where is that bankof innovative ideas?
I think if employees arecoming up with that, I mean,
that's powerful.
JILL FINLAYSON (24:57):
Going back to the really big picture here,
not every part of the worldhas access to electricity.
Not every part of the worldhas high-speed internet.
How do we look atthis AI revolution
and make it more equitableso we don't end up
exacerbating wealth inequality?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (25:15):
I think that's an interesting point,
and one question is, whoseresponsibility is it?
I think it's the responsibilityof each country's government
to actually tackle that problem.
And having worked in somany different countries,
especially with communities thatdon't have access to electricity
devices, internet.
And this is where I feelthat young people actually
(25:36):
have a role to play, and we seethis with Technovation girls,
where many of the apps inmany countries they create
are around corruptionand using technology
for increased transparencyand accountability.
And I think that this iswhere educators can also
play a role, where we areempowering young people to take
civic responsibilityand to demand a better
(25:57):
government, a betterstructure, and using
these powerful toolsto uncover corruption
and to hold people accountable.
I think that's wherethe solution is.
And I am very concernedthat as these tools become
very powerful, companieswill let go of people,
because a lot willget automated,
(26:18):
and that means that wealthwill be concentrated
in the hands of a few.
Again, education isprobably the only path
where we teach empathy.
We teach people whohave a lot of power
to think aboutthose who don't look
like them, who don't have thesame sort of lived experience.
JILL FINLAYSON (26:36):
So if the technology is changing so fast,
are humans changing fast enough,are they evolving fast enough,
or is there something we needto be doing more proactively?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (26:45):
I think, of course,
the human brain hasn't changed,and it will not change.
But I don't know whetherthe brain physically
needs to keep up because itis a very powerful entity.
And I think that we are capableof changing and adapting.
I mean, humans survive invery harsh circumstances.
So if anything, we are equippedwith the right internal
(27:08):
mechanisms tosurvive and thrive,
but I think we have tochange the way we think.
And to me, itreally is embracing
the future and the uncertaintyand not hiding here.
JILL FINLAYSON (27:19):
So if you were to set
a bold target, your bigvision, what would it be?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (27:23):
I am curious because I
think I'd mentioned that AI 2027reported earlier, it presents
a very technocentric view, and Iwant to present a parallel view,
because they are, what, 8.2billion people on this Earth.
And the number of robots in theworld is much smaller than that.
And so what are you goingto do with all these people?
And I think, what if you haveall this incredible progress
(27:44):
happening on the technologyside, which is great,
don't need to stop that,but invest in the humans.
What if we invested inupskilling 50 million employees
in industry and have themmentor 50 million young people
to solve the biggest challengesthat we face using AI.
So I think that istotally possible to do.
(28:04):
Right now, the costof upskilling someone
to have this innovator'smindset and be completely
familiar with AI is $200.
That's not much.
And again, $200 to completelytransform a young person's life.
And so these are investmentsthat can be made,
and we have all theresearch, all the curriculum,
(28:25):
all the infrastructureneeded to upskill and update
the human infrastructure.
JILL FINLAYSON (28:31):
Do you envision, as part
of that, more collaborationbetween corporate and nonprofit
organizations?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (28:38):
I mean, that's always has been the case.
We all always collaborate.
So I think the moreimportant thing
is to have planet-sized goals.
I think industry has alwayscollaborated with nonprofits,
and nonprofits survive onfunding from individuals
and corporations.
But I think the goalshave been too small,
because people are afraid.
People are afraid of settingbig goals because, of course,
(29:00):
maybe their tenureas CEO ends and they
didn't meet theirtargets, and I think
that's why the goalshaven't been big enough.
JILL FINLAYSON (29:07):
So looping back to Technovation
and what you've learnedfrom that program in terms
of what works and doesn'twork in terms of growing
and upskilling talent,what would be your template
or your guide forpeople who want to take
on a really big goal like this?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (29:24):
Partner with us.
We have been doingthis for a while,
and we are partneringwith UNICEF at the moment
to bring this kind ofAI-accelerated program
to 25 million youngpeople, and that
means we need millionsof industry mentors,
and they are upskilling as well.
So this infrastructureis very, very critical.
But the most importantthing I learned
(29:44):
was that just putting acourse online and now,
even adding an AI chatbot onit is not going to do anything.
You're not going to get thatfundamental innovator's mindset
shift, because welearn best from humans.
That's why it'simportant to really have
the human-to-humancollaboration and learning,
(30:06):
and that takes time and effort.
And that's what we've builtover the past 20 years,
is this very thick layerof human-supported network
of learning and learners.
And that's thenumber one lesson I
learned that the fastestway to get to scale
is not the one that resultsin long-term change.
So don't look forthe quick wins,
look for the really resilientfoundational programs.
JILL FINLAYSON (30:29):
So this isn't really
just technically upskillingor building competencies.
It's really the mindsetshift, the innovation shift.
And why hasn't thishappened to date?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (30:42):
I think because we like short-term solutions,
and we love quick numbers.
And I think that wejust lose our attention.
It's taken me 20 years tofigure a lot of this out,
to build a resilient programand to have long-term impact.
People burn out after 10 years.
It's a hard job.
And so that's why, I mean,we started with resilience.
(31:03):
I have first-handexperience of what it means
to weather a lot of storms.
And so many times, CEOsdon't have the resilience
to stay in the game long enoughto actually solve some very
complex social problems.
I'm an aerospaceengineer by training.
Too often, engineers come inthinking it's a simple problem,
but social problems are verydifferent from engineering
(31:24):
problems.
And so it requires a completelydifferent time scale.
JILL FINLAYSON (31:27):
So what are your closing words of advice
for resilience for folks whoare both in the workplace
and those who are tryingto enter the workforce?
TARA CHKLOVSKI (31:35):
I think don't be afraid to think really big,
and spend maybe 20, 30 minutesa day just going back and forth.
You can use Grok,you can use Claude.
You can use ChatGPT.
You can use Gemini.
You can use anything.
But just going back and forthabout thinking maybe even
planet size.
Don't think small,think planet size,
(31:57):
and spend a sufficientamount of time
going back and forthwith an AI assistant,
and you'll be surprised.
It'll change the way you think.
It'll change your perspective,and it'll empower you.
JILL FINLAYSON (32:08):
I love it, leaving people
with planet-sized ambition.
Thank you so muchfor joining us, Tara.
TARA CHKLOVSKI (32:14):
Thank you, Jill.
That was a fun conversation.
JILL FINLAYSON (32:16):
And with that, I hope
you've enjoyed this latestin a long series of podcasts
that we'll be sendingyour way this month.
Please share withfriends and colleagues
who may be interested in takingthis Future of Work journey
with us.
And make sure to check outto extension.berkeley.edu
to find a variety ofcourses and certificates
to help you thrive in thisnew working landscape.
(32:36):
And to see what's comingup next at EDGE in Tech,
go ahead and visitedge.berkeley.edu.
Thanks so much forlistening, and I'll
be back next month to continueour Future of Work journey.
The Future of Work podcastis hosted by Jill Finlayson,
produced by Sarah Benzuly,and edited by Matt DiPietro
and Brandon Gregory.
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