July 28, 2025 • 53 mins
If you’re looking to reinvent your career, reboot your confidence or rethink what’s possible, we’re going to give you some time, space and strategies to imagine your next move. The past is not a fortune teller. It doesn’t dictate your future. The past is, however, an excellent teacher that offers useful lessons, but not limits. So how do we tackle finding our future career path with a minimum of stress and self-doubt?
To talk about this, we’re delighted to welcome Andrea Liebross, a results-focused business coach and life-balance architect.
Read the transcript @https://bit.ly/4mcLbHN
Learn more about UC Berkeley Extension @https://bit.ly/4mcLbHN
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
[MUSIC PLAYING]
(00:03):
SPEAKER (00:06):
So I like to say future you is really a person.
It's you three orfive years from now.
And it's like you'remeeting future you.
You need to go becomefriends with that future you.
Future you is urging youto try on different ideas.
So future you is verymuch ambitious, willing
to explore and to reallytry on the options.
JILL FINLAYSON (00:32):
Welcome to the Future of Work podcast
with Berkeley Extensionand EDGE in Tech
at the University of California,focused on expanding diversity
and gender equity in tech.
EDGE in Tech is part of theInnovation Hub at CITRIS,
the Center for IT Researchin the Interest of Society,
and the Banatao Institute.
UC Berkeley Extension isthe continuing education arm
(00:52):
of the University ofCalifornia at Berkeley.
This month, if you're lookingto reinvent your career,
reboot your confidence, orrethink what's possible,
we're going to give you sometime, space, and strategies
to imagine your next move.
The past is nota fortune teller.
It doesn't dictate your future.
The past is, however, anexcellent teacher that offers us
(01:14):
useful lessons but not limits.
So how do we tacklefinding a future career
path with a minimum ofstress and self-doubt?
To talk about this, we'redelighted to welcome
Andrea Liebross, aresults-focused business coach
and life balance architect.
She works with unapologeticallyambitious female business
owners who are readyto grow strategically
(01:34):
through big thinking.
Through results-focusedcoaching, systems,
and intelligent decisionmaking, Andrea helps turn ideas
into action andbusinesses into legacies
while still ensuring lifeintegration remains at the core.
Andrea is also the author andpodcast host of She Thinks big.
Welcome, Andrea.
ANDREA LIEBROSS: Thanks for having me. (01:54):
undefined
JILL FINLAYSON (01:55):
Let's start with the past
before we jump into the future.
Where did your career start out?
And how did you getwhere you are today?
Was this a gradual evolution,a big pivot, a planned journey?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (02:06):
It definitely wasn't a planned journey.
I'll say that.
I think it was agradual evolution.
I graduated from college.
I graduated from Dartmouthback in the '90s.
I moved to New York City.
I worked in a big ad agency.
Those were the days of, anyonewho's old like me listening,
Ally McBeal.
So it was kind of an AllyMcBeal ad agency situation.
(02:30):
But then I got engaged, andmy husband, my future husband,
had to move to Houston,Texas, for his residency.
He's a physician.
So that was a turning point.
So we got married,moved to Houston,
and I said, I don'twant to go back
into the rat race, what felta little bit of a rat race
in advertising.
And I pivoted and got a master'sin communication disorders
(02:53):
while we were in Houstonand lived there for a while,
moved to Indianapolisafter his residency,
where he startedhis real world job.
And I then put mymaster's degree to work
and worked in ahospital environment,
actually, for a few years.
But then I hadkids, and that job
was not going to workin our family dynamic.
(03:14):
He didn't really have muchcontrol over his schedule,
and I wasn't going to be ableto have much control over mine.
So I took one for theteam, we'll call it,
and I moved intoworking part time.
And at that pointI really decided
I didn't love whatI was doing again.
So I started working for moreof a corporate entity in a role
(03:36):
where I was recruitingand hiring and training.
I fell into this role,as a lot of jobs,
as we know happen,that you fall into it.
And I stayed with thatcompany for 10 years.
And when I left, I reallyassessed, why did I
stay there for so long?
It seemed like solong, those 10 years.
And I hired my firstcoach at that point,
(04:00):
had never workedwith a coach before.
And I still have avision in my brain
of where I was sitting whenshe said to me, what you really
loved about thatrole was coaching.
And I had never thoughtof it like that.
I was just, in the corporateeyes, training people
on how to grow new businesses.
(04:22):
And it really wasn't training.
I don't think you canreally train someone
to be honest, if we look upthe definition of the word.
The part I love the most wasnow I would call coaching them
through the messy middle,which really means
when you have decided,made a decision
to embark on a new endeavor.
(04:43):
And this doesn't have tobe with growing a business.
This can be with anything.
This can be youreducational career too.
You embark on it, and youhave excitement going into it.
You start to see some success,or things are paying off.
And then it startsto feel really messy.
How do I get to that next level?
(05:03):
Or how do I makethis feel easier?
It doesn't feel easy anymore.
It feels really hardand complicated.
You might havesome guilt infusing
the situation at thatpoint because you're
using a lot of resourcesto keep things going,
time, money, energy, people.
And I really lovedhelping the mostly
(05:26):
women I was working with atthat point move through that
and get to that next level.
So when I reallydug deep and figured
out that was the part Iliked, I thought, all right.
Maybe I should justbe doing this not
under that corporate umbrellaand doing this work on my own
on my own terms.
(05:46):
Thus was born a coachingbusiness at that point,
which is seven oreight years ago now.
And I am still working mostlywith female entrepreneurs
and helping themgrow their business.
But I also have now, atthis point, written a book
and have five yearsworth of podcast episodes
out there on my own too.
(06:07):
And I speak to audiencesaround the country,
and so that's reallythe long version, Jill,
of the gradual evolutionwith a few pivots.
But none of it was planneduntil it was planned.
JILL FINLAYSON (06:21):
I heard a couple of things in just your recap
that I'd love to know,how did you figure it out?
What made you aware that youwere not in the right job?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (06:30):
I think it's actually
an interesting mix or mergeof a couple different things.
Some of them I just didn'tlike how it aligned with what
was happening in my family.
So I think we always haveto remember that part.
I didn't like the hours I wasworking at one point in relation
(06:50):
to when my kids were awake.
So I didn't like that part.
Other points I didn't like,the fact in that corporate role
where I would come up with whatI thought were great ideas,
and then they hadto get passed--
they would be identifiedactually as great ideas.
But then they had to gothrough the powers that be,
(07:11):
and they never wouldcome to fruition.
And that was reallyfrustrating to me at one point.
So I didn't like thedynamic, we'll call it,
or the hierarchy of things.
In another job Ihad at one point,
I didn't like thelack of control
I had over my day to day.
So it's interestingbecause a lot of us
(07:32):
say, oh, we want things toalways be varied and different.
We do, but our brain doeslike some consistency as well.
So one of those jobs I had,it was just too much chaos
all at one time.
So I think why I switchedjobs or career paths
or took a different trajectorywas never one thing alone.
(07:56):
It was always acombination of things.
And I think that'sstill true today.
The people that I'mworking with today,
as I look at my own kidswho are in their early 20s,
it's never just onething, I don't think.
I think it's alwaysjust a combination.
JILL FINLAYSON (08:15):
Why do you think the past is not the best
indicator of the future?
Oftentimes we think aboutyou get your first job.
Then you get moreresponsibility.
And then you get moreresponsibility, and you move up.
But it's based onyour past performance.
Is it a good model?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (08:30):
I think moving up within an organization does--
in like their eyes,them versus you,
they do have to go on something.
So I think pastperformance is helpful
if you're the employerand thinking about,
does this employeeneed to be elevated?
(08:51):
But if you're theemployee, you are
in charge of your own destiny.
And yes, you can learnthings from your past.
But like you said,it doesn't have
to tell the fortune ofwhere you want to be.
So I think what's interesting,if you think about pivot
versus plan journey, a lotof times the past tells us
what we don't like.
(09:13):
But it doesn't tell uswhat we do want or like.
And that has to come somewhatfrom your imagination or your
giving yourself spaceto think about things
or your dreaming abilities.
And that is all future based.
So I like to sayyou've got to take
(09:35):
some direction fromthat future you,
and you've got to think aboutwhat would he or she like doing,
or what do you want yourfamily dynamic to look like?
And how is your work goingto integrate into that?
So you can learn from thepast, but it's not always
(09:55):
going to tell youwhat the future holds.
JILL FINLAYSON: Who is the future? (09:59):
undefined
ANDREA LIEBROSS (10:00):
You've got to think about future you
with a big smileon his or her face.
They are liking, lovingwhat they're doing.
Are there difficult challenges?
Yes.
It's not smiles all the time.
But they are feeling successful.
They are feelingprobably purposeful.
(10:22):
They are feeling like thingsare flowing in their lives.
They are feeling energizedby what's happening.
And so if that's the case--
and you have to really dig intothe feeling aspect of it-- then
what are they doing?
What is that future you doing?
And if we think about feelinglike things are flowing,
(10:44):
energized, smiling, balanced,potentially, what are they
doing in order to create that?
What role or job or professionor business are they in?
And if you giveyourself enough space
to think about that, thenyou can go to future you
and say, OK, future you,what should I do today?
(11:07):
So I like to say futureyou is really a person.
It's you three orfive years from now.
So picture all of thisas an actual human.
And it's like you'remeeting future you.
You need to go becomefriends with that future you.
So future you is, out of thatcuriosity type of thinking,
urging you to tryon different ideas,
(11:29):
almost like you'retrying on-- you're
in a dressing room ata department store,
if we actually go intostores these days.
And you're trying ondifferent outfits.
You're trying ondifferent clothing.
Or you're tryingdifferent sports.
What are you trying on?
So future you isvery much ambitious.
Future you is someone who'swilling to explore and to really
(11:56):
try on the options.
You've got to beopen to options.
And I think when you'rein that dressing room,
if you've ever had anyonehelp you in a dressing room
and they say, hey, I knowyou kind of passed over
this on the rack, but I actuallythink you should try this on,
you should try--
(12:16):
I've seen it on otherpeople, and people
seem to really like it.
Will you give it a try?
And that's the same inour professional life.
I've seen this work for peoplewho seem similar to you.
Have you everthought about this?
Give it a try.
Try it on.
Or I know you reallydon't love red.
But there are 52 shades of red.
(12:40):
So the pinks might actuallywork out better for you.
Pink's a shade of red.
Would you try this on?
So future you is almost likethat sales person that's
outside the dressingroom that's handing
you things over the door.
JILL FINLAYSON (12:55):
And it sounds like future you is not alone
either.
There are other people whocan help provide ideas.
ANDREA LIEBROSS (13:01):
Yes, yes.
So I think you've got toget yourself in a position
where you are fully supported.
You are fully supported.
You are not just relyingon your friends and family
to help guide you.
They're almost morecommiserators in a way.
Or they can validatewhat you're thinking.
(13:22):
But are they pushing you?
Are they challenging you at all?
Are they throwing over thegreen things over the edge
of the dressing room to you?
Or are they beinglike, yeah, I know.
You never wear green.
So that's OK.
Your friends andfamily, their job
is to love you and support youin a way that feels good to you.
(13:44):
But who else is supportingyou in a way that
might be a little more honestor a little more exploratory
or create a littlebit more curiosity
or push you intoa little bit more
of a risky risk-rewardtype of situation?
Everybody needs those kindsof people in their lives too.
And they can look like mentors.
They can look like coaches.
(14:06):
They can look like colleagues.
It could be your best friend, ifthat's the kind of relationship
you have.
But I would encourage everybodyto get out there and see,
who do you have in your supportnetwork that can help future
you move this thing along?
JILL FINLAYSON (14:20):
Yeah, I've been very fortunate
to have a number of bosses whohave both given me enough rope
to go do things but have alsogiven, what you're suggesting,
a nudge or a push totake on something that
might seem a little audacious.
ANDREA LIEBROSS (14:33):
Yes, yes, which could be big
thinking in a way,which is another thing
that I really am aproponent of, thinking big.
JILL FINLAYSON (14:42):
What is thinking big?
ANDREA LIEBROSS: Thinking big is the kind (14:44):
undefined
of thinking that comes fromfuture you, first of all.
But when we are talkingabout our future
or making decisions ashow to move forward,
big thinking isreally a tool that you
can have in your toolbox.
And I use an acronymTRUST, T-R-U-S-T,
(15:07):
to describe what bigthinking is all about.
And TRUST has fiveletters in it,
and I say that there'sfive keys to thinking big.
JILL FINLAYSON (15:18):
All right, let's break it down.
What is the first T in TRUST?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (15:23):
So the first T in TRUST
stands for thought options.
And you have thoughtsabout every single thing,
every word someone saysout of their mouth,
every fact that's out there.
So if you are saying, OK, it'ssunny and 70 degrees today,
it's a fact.
We're in Berkeley.
And I am not in Berkeley,but let's pretend I'm
(15:44):
there with you.
And it's sunny and 70.
Some people may have a thoughtor you might have a thought
at 8:00 AM, ugh, why is today,this Monday, 70 and sunny.
Yesterday it was raining and 50.
So your thought is, I wishit wasn't 70 and sunny today.
I wish it was yesterday.
(16:05):
That could be a thought.
You also could have a thoughtat 8:02 because your brain likes
to switch quickly, oh my gosh,this is going to be great.
The drive to work is goingto be so much easier.
So happy it's 70 and sunny.
Or you could, Ican't wait till 4:00.
That's what I'm going to beable to get outside and take
advantage of the day.
So there are factsout there, and we
(16:28):
get to choose whichthought we want to have.
Then the R in TRUSTstands for real problems.
So all big thinkers know thatthe real problem is really
just the fact that you don'twant to feel something negative.
(16:51):
There is no real problem.
The only problem is youdon't want to experience
negative thinking.
The U in TRUST stands forembracing the unknown.
So we don't even know what'sgoing to happen this afternoon.
We don't know what'sgoing to happen tomorrow.
Our brain reallywants to know though.
(17:13):
It doesn't likeunknown or uncertainty.
But big thinkers have toprobably take some risks.
Future you, future youis probably a risk taker.
So all big thinkersout there, they
have to embrace theunknown or uncertainty.
Then S in TRUST, S stands forsecure support, which actually
we kind of hit on previously.
(17:35):
Everybody out therethat is a big thinker,
I don't know any of themthat are doing it alone.
They all have sometype of support system
that are really going to serve--
as I like to say, they're goingto be able to read the label.
So you are stuck in the jar.
You're stuck in yourown peanut butter jar.
And it's so sticky inthere that sometimes it's
really hard to seewhat's happening,
(17:57):
and you need someone to pointthat out to you and for you.
So that's what the Sstands for in trust.
And then the lastT in trust stands
for taking massive action,taking massive action, not
passive action.
Passive action isreading a book.
It's listening to a podcast.
Now, clearly I like both things.
(18:19):
It's not like I don'tlike reading or listening
to podcasts, but that's justus absorbing information.
Are you doing anything with it?
When I do my own podcast, Ialways have a homework section,
and I say, OK, thankyou for listening
through the whole thing.
You're still here with me.
Now I want to give yousome homework where you
can take some massive action.
(18:41):
So for the last Tin TRUST stands for
take real massive action.
JILL FINLAYSON (18:45):
I like massive, not passive.
[LAUGHS]
ANDREA LIEBROSS (18:48):
Yes.
JILL FINLAYSON (18:48):
That's great.
When I think about this,I used to work at eBay,
and they had aphrase called BHAG,
big, hairy, audacious goal.
And the idea was you wanted togo for exponential growth, not
incremental growth,and you wanted
to have a big goalbecause, if you fell short,
you still went furtherthan you thought.
(19:10):
But for a lot ofpeople, they might ask,
why do I have to think big?
Why I just think next?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (19:16):
Hmm, OK, so this is a great question.
And I think what happenshere is, if we think next,
what is the next best step?
It's a great question.
But is it pushingyou farther faster?
So I like to think about,what if we dismiss next step
(19:37):
and we go right to leap?
What would a leap look like?
And leaps are actuallyway more powerful.
And leaps are sometimes madeup of little next steps.
But if you can get yourbrain to the leap place,
you are going tosee more progress.
So I was on a coachingcall the other day,
(19:58):
and we were talkingabout this, same thing
here, the next stepversus the leap
or having that big, hairy,audacious goal versus just
a next step.
And my client said to me,I feel like I'm successful.
I've seen success.
It's not just a feeling.
But I want tremendous success.
She kept going back tothat word "tremendous."
(20:19):
And we actually googledit, and we looked.
We got all geeky,and we figured,
what did Webster's dictionarysay about "tremendous?"
And it really has thissense of largeness to it.
But nowhere, nowhere in thedefinition did they mention
the word "scary" or "fear."
So I think sometimesthat's what prevents us
(20:41):
from going towards those bigthings or taking that leap.
But it doesn't haveto be that way.
So I would say go for the leap.
JILL FINLAYSON (20:51):
The association I have with leap
is kind of interesting.
When you think about socialentrepreneurship or developing
economies, one ofthe things we discuss
is they don't have torepeat the mistakes
that other countries have made.
They can leapfrog.
They can go rightto a better solution
rather than going throughmistakes and evolution
(21:11):
that other countrieswent through.
Do you think there's asimilar parallel for people?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (21:15):
100%.
So this could go back tothe past as a teacher.
What do we remember most?
We don't remember thoselittle next steps.
We remember thebig, big changes.
Or when I was recountingmy last 30 years,
I gave you some highlights, andthose were really the leaps.
They weren't the small steps.
(21:38):
So that is a good analogy.
JILL FINLAYSON (21:40):
That actually reminds
me of when people writetheir resume, that is
the summary of their successes.
It doesn't necessarilytalk about their failures.
What role do failures play inthis growth and career planning?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (21:55):
Well, I think, if you've ever
gone through the exerciseof doing a life plan--
have you ever done that?
It's like a-- OK.
So it starts to look like agraph of ebbs and flows or peaks
and valleys.
And you plot out, hey,these were my successes,
and they're the peaks.
(22:16):
But then these were the lows.
And in the instructionsto do this life plan,
it prompt you tolook at the lows.
And you realize that sometimesthere's just as many lows
as there are peaks or such asmany valleys as there are peaks.
And I think what that doesis it helps us assess--
(22:40):
looking at thosevalleys or lows helps
us assess, why was that a low?
Or why does our brainassociate it as a low?
And it tells you a little bitabout what you don't want,
but it doesn't necessarilytell you what you do want.
(23:00):
And I think that'swhere you have
to honestly rely on yourself alittle more and not the facts.
That's where you have to--
we've all heard theexpression like,
you've got to liftyourself up out of this.
Or I just, I just--
I'm putting just in air quotes--
I just have to getover it and move on.
(23:22):
There's another expression.
But is it telling us whatwe have to move on to?
Not really.
So the lows or thevalleys tell us
what we don't want,what we don't like,
what we don't want to feel.
But they don't necessarilytell us how to get out of it.
And that's whereyou have to rely
on that future you to almostpull you out of the valley
(23:44):
or pull you out of the low.
JILL FINLAYSON (23:46):
I think there's a couple observations which
people forget or overlook,which is that it's not
a smooth ride here.
You don't just have a careerpath that goes uphill.
It's these dips and valleysall the way along the way.
ANDREA LIEBROSS (24:01):
Yep, yep.
And I think you have to thinkabout what might pull you out
of the valley.
You have to think about, whatmight make this a home run
for me?
What would help mejump out of the valley?
What would feel amazing?
And sometimes that's hard to do.
I think it's easier to do whenwe're looking at someone else
and thinking, what would makethis a home run for them?
(24:24):
What do we think they want?
But when we're doing it forourselves, it's a lot harder.
JILL FINLAYSON (24:30):
In this economy, even ambitious folks
may feel anxious orstuck or almost feel
like they have tostay where they are
because it's a little bit safe.
How do you help people thinkabout risks and rewards
and embark on this journey?
ANDREA LIEBROSS: Well, I like to think (24:46):
undefined
about using a thought bridge.
So how do I get from where Iam now to where I want to go?
How do I embark?
Thought bridges linkyour past to your future.
And I think ofliterally a bridge,
a wooden bridge with planks,and you're on one side.
It's called theland of impossible.
And then on the otherside, where you want to go,
(25:08):
is the land of inevitable.
And as you go over, youget to a peak in the bridge
because the bridge isa little circular type
of rainbowy bridge.
And at the top is whatis really possible.
But each step or eachplank in the bridge
represents the next best step.
(25:28):
And to get over, you've got totrain your brain to figure out
how to keep moving forward.
So what do I need to do?
I need to get out thereand ask some questions.
That's maybe step 1.
OK, I ask the questions.
Now I'm going to take theinfo, come back to home base,
(25:49):
synthesize, decide whatmy next best step is.
OK, now I took thenext best step.
I didn't ask questions.
I actually put my resumeout there, for example.
OK, now the resume is out there.
Now I have to follow up.
Each of these wooden planksrepresents a next best step.
You get to a place at the peakwhere you feel like, OK, I
(26:09):
think I've got some traction.
I think I'm actually goingto get over the bridge.
And our brain, though, wants toleap from one side of the river
to the other.
And I think that's a goodthing to keep in mind.
However, you do have to figureout what each next step is
and to think about,what do I need
(26:30):
to do to actually shineas I move forward?
What would make it ahome run for the people
that I'm going toget in front of?
What do they really need?
What do they really want?
And how do I show upon that next plank
of the bridge in a way that'sgoing to do that for them?
JILL FINLAYSON (26:50):
I think a lot of people
do feel like they're livingin the land of impossible,
but it's really hard.
You mentionedsubmitting a resume,
but that's the tip ofthe iceberg, right?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (27:02):
It is.
It is.
That's the easy part.
JILL FINLAYSON (27:04):
And people are submitting 200 resumes
and not hearing backor getting rejection.
So how do you helppeople with the mindset?
What do you mean by mindset?
And what kind of shifts areyou asking people to make?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (27:18):
I just experienced this
with my own kids actually.
So they're enteringthis job market,
and that 200 resumething is a real thing.
That's no exaggeration.
And unfortunately, there'sno follow up even sometimes.
You don't know becauseit goes into oblivion,
and you're just waitingand waiting and waiting.
What do I even wakeup and do today?
So what I thinkyou have to assess
(27:40):
is your resourceshere that you have
in moving into thatnext phase of life,
that next job, that nextbusiness, that next whatever.
You've got time, money,people, people around you,
and you have energy.
Those are your fourmost valuable resources.
And those are thethings that are
(28:01):
going to help youmove past that barrier
or get into that next place.
And they can be barriersin and of themselves,
or they can be used as tools.
So you might say, I don'tknow if applying for this job
(28:22):
is going to give me as muchmoney as I have right now.
The money might not be as good.
Should I go for it?
Well, are you givingequal airtime to the money
might be better or time?
I don't know if Ican get flexibility,
the same flexibility thatI have now, elsewhere.
(28:42):
Well, what if you goteven more flexibility?
So here's this equalairtime type of thing.
Here's where future you ispulling you over the bridge.
People, am I going to thepeople I'm working with or not?
My people right now,they're pretty good.
I don't know if I couldcreate a better situation.
What if they were even better?
(29:02):
What if they were evenbetter supporters of you?
What if they helped catapult youinto that even next opportunity?
The last thing, and the mostimportant thing I think,
how to move past the barrier,how to get beyond the 200 resume
abyss is tapping into your ownenergy or your own brain power.
(29:23):
That is ultimately your mostvaluable resource in all of this
because you canuse your brainpower
to create moretime or more money
or get yourself withthe right people.
Are you spending yourenergy or your brainpower
on the right things?
Are you stuck inthe here and now?
(29:45):
Or are you workingtoward the future?
And I'll give you an example.
My son actually just wentthrough a job search,
but he did sign acontract last week.
So thank you, Lord, for that.
But he had put hisresume out there,
and he was workingwith headhunters too.
And things seem to be eithergoing into the resume abyss.
Or he was getting through tothe final round of things,
(30:08):
but nothing was clicking.
And we had thiswhole discussion,
and he just feltlike he was up to--
there was a barrier.
So there was one company hewas really interested in,
and he lives in Boston.
And this organization wasin Nashville, Tennessee.
And I said, what if youasked the headhunter
if any of the top dogsever come to Boston?
(30:31):
Because they did haveclients in Boston.
He figured that out.
And could you meet inperson with someone
from the organization?
Could you meet for coffeeor drink or whatever?
And to him, that seemedlike, mom, no one does that.
Everything's on Zoom untilyou get to the final round.
That's not happening.
It's not happening.
(30:51):
Of course, what do I know too?
I'm just his mom.
So he did.
I'm sure you can figure out whatthe end of the story is here.
He did do that.
And sure enough, a guy wascoming to Boston the next week,
and he met him.
It was like 25 minutes, he said.
He met them in the groundfloor of his building
in downtown Boston.
(31:11):
They, I don't know, musthave had a great conversation
because the nextthing he knew, he
was invited to go to Nashville.
And that is the jobhe actually landed.
If we go back and we look atall the jobs he applied to,
he hadn't met anyone in personat any of these organizations
until that very final round.
So my point here is he hadto use his brainpower--
(31:32):
and he borrowed alittle of mine--
to create more opportunities.
And I think that's whatyou've got to really go back
to is your own energyand your own brain power,
aligning it withthat future you.
JILL FINLAYSON (31:47):
So I've both been this person
and met people who have beenin career positions which have,
I would say, beat them down,have affected their self-esteem.
How do you help those peopleget on the first plank
when they're just feelinga lot of self-doubt?
How do you help those people?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (32:06):
Yeah, this is hard stuff.
This is hard stuff.
But I think you can go back to,what do you have in your court?
So you've been beaten down.
You don't love what you do.
You feel like there is no hope.
But what do you have?
You have skills.
You have solved problems.
(32:29):
You have people around you.
You have opportunity.
You can learn things.
You can tap intoyour brain power.
You can figure out what thatnext job might be looking for
and learn how to do that.
There's the thoughtoption type of thinking.
JILL FINLAYSON (32:51):
The thought options, you
have to believe that there issomething out there for you.
So it seems like the firstleap you have to make.
ANDREA LIEBROSS (32:58):
Yeah, so the first leap
is really about belief.
And when I work with myclients, a lot of times
they'll come to me, and they'lljust say, what do I need to do?
So they want theiraction plan, all right,
which we all wantan action plan.
And then they'll say,and I'm on this timeline.
I really want this all tohappen before January 1.
(33:20):
OK, got it.
We can create an action plan.
We can create a timeplan, our timeline.
But do you have a belief plan?
And then they look at me like,what are you talking about?
This is like, way too woo.
And it's not woo, OK.
It's not.
What do you needto believe in order
(33:41):
to land that next position?
You've got to believe thatyou have something to offer.
You've got tobelieve that there is
some person, some organizations,some firms, something
that wants to work with you.
You've got to believe that anold dog can learn new tricks.
You've got to believethat, yeah, there
can be something that's way moreflexible than I have right now,
(34:04):
even if you think you'vegot great flexibility.
So there's a lotof this you've got
to believe in the possibilitiesand the opportunities.
So I like to say, yes,you need an action plan.
Yes, you need a time plan.
But you also need a belief plan.
And that's what's really goingto start the ball rolling.
(34:28):
That's what's going toeven get you to the bridge.
JILL FINLAYSON (34:31):
So if you have a belief
plan, going to theR in TRUST, how
do you know if you havean actual real problem
or it is that negative thinking?
What is an activity to help youfigure out, is this a problem?
Do I have a gap?
Or is this something thatI'm just holding myself back
and I'm self-limiting?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (34:50):
I think you have to look
at it through a different lens.
So I like to say changeyour glasses out.
And would someone else that isnot engrossed in the situation
consider this a problem?
Let's say you'vesubmitted the 200 resumes,
and you're tellingeverybody in the world,
I'm just not getting any bites.
(35:11):
This is horrible.
I have a problem.
There must be somethingwrong with me.
Maybe there's somethingwrong with my resume.
Maybe I need to tweak something.
Yeah, maybe you doneed to tweak some.
Maybe you're right.
But what would someone sayto you, is that a problem?
No, they'd probably say, yeah,but you might get a new job when
you submit resume 201.
(35:34):
So you have to go backto thought options.
Would someone else considerthis a huge problem?
Or would they say, well,it's not really a problem,
it's just that you don't likehow this feels right now?
Because it doesn't feel good tonot get any response after 200
resumes.
So 99.999% of thetime there really
(35:57):
isn't an unsolvable problem.
The real problem isjust that you don't
want to feel a certain way.
JILL FINLAYSON (36:04):
You mentioned earlier Ally McBeal.
I'm going to date myself as wellhere and talk about the X-Files
with FBI agents FoxMulder and Dana Scully,
and they come to mindbecause they're investigating
unexplained cases.
And you were saying that youhave to embrace the unknown.
Why are people uncomfortable?
We just talked about havingto feel uncomfortable.
(36:26):
Why do people feeluncomfortable with the unknown?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (36:29):
So if we put our neuroscience hat on,
there's something calledthe motivational triad.
And as humans, we'remotivated by three things.
We want things tofeel comfortable.
We want to be safe.
And we want thingsto be efficient.
And when you're talkingabout pivoting or changing
(36:53):
trajectories orstarting a new endeavor,
there is nothingcomfortable, efficient,
or safe about any of those.
So if you go backto like caveman era,
the caveman didn't wantto come out of the cave
because he or she were scaredof what was outside of the cave.
(37:14):
So let's just stayin this comfy cave.
Let's hibernate.
Let's stay in.
Even if you don't likewhere you're at, it's safe.
It's human nature for us tonot want to do something new,
do something that mightbe a little bit hard.
It's definitely not efficient.
There's no efficientthing about 200 resumes.
(37:37):
There's no comfortablething about meeting someone
in an interview situation.
So it's almost like, no wonderwe want to stay in the known
or in the certainty.
Of course we do.
That's motivational triad.
But we can't createchange unless we
(37:58):
do embrace that unknownor that uncertainty.
And I think whatcaptured our attention
with Fox Mulder and DanaScully in investigating
these unexplained cases isthat there's an excitement.
Sometimes you say,how do you feel?
Oh, I'm excited,but I'm nervous.
Usually excited and nervousor anxious and excited,
(38:22):
they're words that kindof sometimes go together.
And that is becausewe're excited about what
might be possible.
There's our curiosity factor.
But we're nervousbecause we know
we're going intoa territory where
it's going to be hard anduncomfortable and efficient.
JILL FINLAYSON (38:39):
So reframing the scary into exciting.
ANDREA LIEBROSS (38:42):
Yeah, and both scary and exciting,
if you think aboutit, are fleeting.
So go back to that life planwith the peaks and valleys.
It is a peak.
It is a split second.
And it's a valley.
It's a split second,a roller coaster ride.
They're quick.
So there's excitement and fear,excitement and fear, excitement
and fear.
So I think in lifewhat we're always
(39:05):
searching for is that happymedium, the middle, the neutral,
where we don't have to feeleither excited or anxious.
We can just be atpeace with things.
We can be contentwith what's happening.
And whether that's ussolving an unexplained case
or looking for anew career or job
or going back to school,whatever that is,
(39:26):
we just want to get intoit and start to figure out
what our day to dayis going to look like,
and you have toknow that that is
at the other sideof the rainbow.
You're going to get into it.
You're going to reach aplace of neutral eventually.
JILL FINLAYSON (39:43):
And going to the S in TRUST,
securing support, what is thetactical plan for securing
support?
Because, as you alluded to,we're much harsher on ourselves
than our friends are.
They ask us for advice.
We'd be like, yeah,you can do it.
Yay.
But if we ask ourselves,we're like, no, I can't.
So how do you secure support?
Do you make a listof people to talk to?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (40:04):
I operationalize it
by saying, who do you wanton your personal board
of directors?
And that's a really goodanalogy and operational standard
that you could go through.
So if you thinkabout organizations,
they comprise a board ofdirectors, that it's handpicked.
They want someone onthat board of directors
who has finance experience,legal experience, depending
(40:25):
on what the field is maybe somemedical experience, running
teams, whatever theorganization is.
But they handpick who'son the board of directors.
So who do you need onyour board of directors?
Now, one person you might needon your board of directors
is an ally or a friend who'sgoing to say, go for it,
(40:47):
or that's OK you didn't get it.
Better luck next time.
Yeah, you do need that ally.
But you also needsomeone strategic
that might say, yeah,the reason you probably
didn't get that is because youdidn't highlight your ability
to do x, y, and z.
They're going totell you the truth.
Or you might needsomeone on there
that says you need tothink about people skills.
(41:11):
And are you highlightingall of the things
that you've donemanaging others?
So you've got to getreally strategic on who
is on your board of directorsand try to fill the seats.
I look for someonewho is asking you
questions that'sgoing to lead you
(41:33):
to the massive action orthe next step or the leap.
So that personneeds to have skill
in question asking actually.
They are not just tellers.
They're not necessarilyconsultants.
They are more filling a coachtype of role, going to motivate.
(41:56):
They have to be reallygood question askers.
They have to help yousee the possibilities.
And they have tobe there with you
through the thick and the thin,regardless of the outcome.
If you don't havesomeone with you that's
going to stick with youregardless of the outcome,
you need thatperson that's going
(42:16):
to show up week after week.
Questions, showingyou possibilities,
not motivating you-- youhave to motivate yourself
in the true sense-- but who'sgoing to walk alongside you
or who's going tobe a guide and who's
going to call you out too whenyou don't make a good play.
JILL FINLAYSON (42:36):
This may be a little stereotypical,
but if women havebeen culturized
to have friends andpeople that they
can talk to about thesethings, how do you help the men
you're coaching findthat support network?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (42:51):
That's a great question.
It does seem a littlebit harder in a sense.
I think what's interestingis the women usually
don't have trouble finding thecommiserators and the allies.
They have a harder timefinding the strategic players
in a sense.
Men, on the otherhand, sometimes
(43:12):
have a hard time finding theallies or the commiserators
because that to them mightbe a sign of weakness.
This is all just normswe're talking about.
There's always exceptions.
But I think honesty is reallythe key denominator here.
So a woman has tobe honest in saying,
I don't reallyunderstand anything
(43:32):
about business finances.
I probably should, and I'membarrassed to say I don't.
So I need to get that financeperson on my board of directors.
A male might say,I got to be honest.
I could have all the lawyers,finance people, operations
people galore, but Ineed to find someone
(43:54):
that I can justreally let it all out
and be honest in that way.
And I think those friendshipsare usually with men.
I always say, lookfor the commonalities.
Who do you havesomething in common with?
And ask.
You have to ask.
Are you asking them to beon the board of directors.
That's actually a greatway to even put it.
(44:16):
Hey, I've got somechallenges happening.
I've got some change up ahead.
I need people on mypersonal board of directors.
Would you be on it?
And people are usually honored.
JILL FINLAYSON (44:27):
So you've coached a lot of people.
You've given them this advice.
What barriers havepeople run into?
And what's the biggeststopper for them?
ANDREA LIEBROSS: The biggest stopper? (44:35):
undefined
OK, I would saythe biggest stopper
that our brain likes tocome up with is time.
I'd say that's what our brainoffers up the most, that time,
we just don't have enough time.
We just don't have enoughtime to fit everything
(44:57):
in if we don't havetime to balance
our family with our currentjob or occupation or business.
And we don't have timethen to insert something
new, new goals, new endeavors.
It just seems likewe're piling things on.
(45:17):
So I think thisis when you really
have to get good atdeciding what's important,
what's urgent, what's importantbut maybe not urgent, what's
urgent but not important,and then what's
neither urgent nor important.
(45:38):
So let's divide outwhat's happening
right now into four quadrants.
And you've got urgent, noturgent, important, not important
as the labels of these axes.
And when you puteverything down on paper,
you're going to see thatthere are things there
that aren't urgent or importantthat you could delegate
(46:00):
or delete or even schedule.
They're like, no fornow, but not forever.
So there's something called anEisenhower matrix out there,
and if you Google it,you're going to find it.
I think Dwight Eisenhower wasthe originator of all of this.
But he has this matrix,and I have a version of it
(46:20):
too, where I try to say,what do we need to plan?
Plan meaning it's stillin the planning stages.
You can't reallyeven schedule it
because then the nextstep is schedule.
What do we need to do right now?
And then what can we delegate?
And if you get good at thatdo, delegate, delete, schedule
(46:42):
or do, plan, schedule,delegate, however
you want to labelthose things, you're
going to see that youdo have plenty of time.
JILL FINLAYSON: You've called yourself (46:52):
undefined
a life-balance architect.
So when you thinkabout this idea
of these multilayeredproblems, how
are you helping peoplebalance their life?
They've got your current job.
You've got the goals for whatyou want to have as another job.
But you might haveelderly parents to take
care of or children or pets.
(47:12):
Or you got to repair thecars or get it smog checked.
There's a lot going onin everyone's lives.
How do you help them thinkabout planning this career
goal trajectory in the midstof all this messy middle noise?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (47:28):
Yeah.
How many of those things on thatto do list align with that five
year from now future you?
How many of thosewould future you
be like, yes, you definitelyneed to do that today?
Do we really needto go to Target?
Is that the mostimportant thing?
Or do I need to send out 10 moreresumes versus just picking up
(47:51):
the phone and callingone person that
might get us further faster?
So you have to take adifferent set of glasses,
look at how you'respending your time,
and honestly on a dailybasis get that granular.
And are the thingsthat you're doing,
would future be applauding you?
Or would it just be like eh?
(48:11):
And that's how you have todecide where to put your energy.
JILL FINLAYSON (48:17):
When you think about the idea of manifesting,
like, I can seeit, I can make it
happen, if you don'thave that kind of vision,
it's hard to dothat prioritization.
ANDREA LIEBROSS (48:29):
It totally is.
So one of the thingsI do with my clients,
I call it avision-into-action intensive,
and it lays the foundationfor the work we do together.
And I get some pushback.
People are like, I have a plan.
We can skip that step.
But after I do that,I get many thanks
because it's creating space.
It's creating thatstrategic pause for you
(48:50):
to really dig deeperinto what you want,
what you're envisioningfor your future,
and then ensuring that howyou're setting yourself up,
what you're doing today, theactions, so vision into action,
the actions thatyou're taking really
are in line with that visionbecause too often we just
(49:11):
can go down rabbit holes orlots of shiny objects or things
you think you definitely,definitely need to do.
Yet really do you?
Does it align with whereyou want to go long term?
And that's why I think it's soimportant to get your vision out
there and then decide fromthere what your actions are.
JILL FINLAYSON (49:33):
Yeah.
I think sometimes we hope thatthings will just fall into place
or fall into our lap, buttypically that doesn't happen.
And so do you have somefinal tips on thinking big?
Where do they start?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (49:47):
I think a great place to start
is this visioning.
It's hard to do by yourselfbecause our brain wants
to come up with all theexcuses, like we talked about,
of why things aren't possible.
Or I get the question, doyou want something realistic?
Or is this really inmy wildest dreams?
And I think you have to goto in my wildest dreams.
(50:08):
And that's hard to do on ourown for more than 10 seconds.
So I would say grab a friend,grab a friend or someone
on your board of directorsand plan an hour.
And you can do this whileyou're on a walk even.
I recommend thatyou put it on paper.
But if you're walking with yourphone, talk into your phone.
(50:31):
There's so much AI out there,too, that you could use.
Talk into your phone,but have another human
on the other end at least.
And have that personasking you, why this?
Why that?
What does that look like?
What's it going to feel like?
And get it out.
But give yourself a 60minute block of time,
even while you're moving--sometimes while you're moving,
it comes out better--
(50:52):
to get that visiondown there on paper.
JILL FINLAYSON (50:56):
Give me three prompts
that I could go ask myself.
ANDREA LIEBROSS (51:00):
What do I want to feel like in five years?
And how does thatdiffer from today?
How do I want to be remembered?
My funeral is tomorrow.
How do I want to be remembered?
That's really important.
And then how do I want toshow up on a daily basis?
How do I want to showup for my family?
How do I want to showup for my colleagues?
(51:22):
How do I want to showup on the soccer field?
How do I want to show up whenI'm hanging out with friends
on a Saturday night?
How do I want to show up?
Those questions are notprofession specific.
They're not business specific.
They're not career specific.
But they're going to giveyou an outline to figure out
what that path looks like.
JILL FINLAYSON (51:42):
They're going to be the foundation.
Give me a closing inspiration.
How do we know this will work?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (51:48):
You have to go back to our belief plan
because how would weknow it won't work?
I guess is a better question.
What does not working look like?
If you go back tomy story, there
are all those timeswhen I was like, yeah,
I decided I didn't wantto do that anymore.
Well, there was atime when I decided it
was the best thing ever, right?
And I said yes to it.
So something doesn't workonly after it does work.
(52:09):
You've got to be opento those possibilities.
You have to believethat it will work.
And you have to believethat you'll know
when it's no longer working.
So I think it goes backto that belief plan.
JILL FINLAYSON (52:21):
Well, thank you so much, Andrea.
It's been greatchatting with you today.
ANDREA LIEBROSS (52:25):
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
It's been a pleasure.
JILL FINLAYSON (52:27):
And with that, I hope
you enjoyed this latest ina long series of podcasts
that we'll be sendingyour way every month.
Please share withfriends and colleagues
who may be interested in takingthis Future of Work journey
with us.
And make sure to checkout extension.berkeley.edu
find a variety ofcourses and certificates
to help you thrive in thisnew working landscape.
And to see what's comingup next at EDGE in Tech,
(52:48):
go ahead and visitedge.berkeley.edu.
Thanks so much forlistening, and I'll
be back next month to continueour Future of Work journey.
The Future of Work podcastis hosted by Jill Finlayson,
produced by Sarah Benzuly,and edited by Matt Dipietro.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
(00:03):
SPEAKER (00:06):
So I like to say future you is really a person.
It's you three orfive years from now.
And it's like you'remeeting future you.
You need to go becomefriends with that future you.
Future you is urging youto try on different ideas.
So future you is verymuch ambitious, willing
to explore and to reallytry on the options.
JILL FINLAYSON (00:32):
Welcome to the Future of Work podcast
with Berkeley Extensionand EDGE in Tech
at the University of California,focused on expanding diversity
and gender equity in tech.
EDGE in Tech is part of theInnovation Hub at CITRIS,
the Center for IT Researchin the Interest of Society,
and the Banatao Institute.
UC Berkeley Extension isthe continuing education arm
(00:52):
of the University ofCalifornia at Berkeley.
This month, if you're lookingto reinvent your career,
reboot your confidence, orrethink what's possible,
we're going to give you sometime, space, and strategies
to imagine your next move.
The past is nota fortune teller.
It doesn't dictate your future.
The past is, however, anexcellent teacher that offers us
(01:14):
useful lessons but not limits.
So how do we tacklefinding a future career
path with a minimum ofstress and self-doubt?
To talk about this, we'redelighted to welcome
Andrea Liebross, aresults-focused business coach
and life balance architect.
She works with unapologeticallyambitious female business
owners who are readyto grow strategically
(01:34):
through big thinking.
Through results-focusedcoaching, systems,
and intelligent decisionmaking, Andrea helps turn ideas
into action andbusinesses into legacies
while still ensuring lifeintegration remains at the core.
Andrea is also the author andpodcast host of She Thinks big.
Welcome, Andrea.
ANDREA LIEBROSS: Thanks for having me. (01:54):
undefined
JILL FINLAYSON (01:55):
Let's start with the past
before we jump into the future.
Where did your career start out?
And how did you getwhere you are today?
Was this a gradual evolution,a big pivot, a planned journey?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (02:06):
It definitely wasn't a planned journey.
I'll say that.
I think it was agradual evolution.
I graduated from college.
I graduated from Dartmouthback in the '90s.
I moved to New York City.
I worked in a big ad agency.
Those were the days of, anyonewho's old like me listening,
Ally McBeal.
So it was kind of an AllyMcBeal ad agency situation.
(02:30):
But then I got engaged, andmy husband, my future husband,
had to move to Houston,Texas, for his residency.
He's a physician.
So that was a turning point.
So we got married,moved to Houston,
and I said, I don'twant to go back
into the rat race, what felta little bit of a rat race
in advertising.
And I pivoted and got a master'sin communication disorders
(02:53):
while we were in Houstonand lived there for a while,
moved to Indianapolisafter his residency,
where he startedhis real world job.
And I then put mymaster's degree to work
and worked in ahospital environment,
actually, for a few years.
But then I hadkids, and that job
was not going to workin our family dynamic.
(03:14):
He didn't really have muchcontrol over his schedule,
and I wasn't going to be ableto have much control over mine.
So I took one for theteam, we'll call it,
and I moved intoworking part time.
And at that pointI really decided
I didn't love whatI was doing again.
So I started working for moreof a corporate entity in a role
(03:36):
where I was recruitingand hiring and training.
I fell into this role,as a lot of jobs,
as we know happen,that you fall into it.
And I stayed with thatcompany for 10 years.
And when I left, I reallyassessed, why did I
stay there for so long?
It seemed like solong, those 10 years.
And I hired my firstcoach at that point,
(04:00):
had never workedwith a coach before.
And I still have avision in my brain
of where I was sitting whenshe said to me, what you really
loved about thatrole was coaching.
And I had never thoughtof it like that.
I was just, in the corporateeyes, training people
on how to grow new businesses.
(04:22):
And it really wasn't training.
I don't think you canreally train someone
to be honest, if we look upthe definition of the word.
The part I love the most wasnow I would call coaching them
through the messy middle,which really means
when you have decided,made a decision
to embark on a new endeavor.
(04:43):
And this doesn't have tobe with growing a business.
This can be with anything.
This can be youreducational career too.
You embark on it, and youhave excitement going into it.
You start to see some success,or things are paying off.
And then it startsto feel really messy.
How do I get to that next level?
(05:03):
Or how do I makethis feel easier?
It doesn't feel easy anymore.
It feels really hardand complicated.
You might havesome guilt infusing
the situation at thatpoint because you're
using a lot of resourcesto keep things going,
time, money, energy, people.
And I really lovedhelping the mostly
(05:26):
women I was working with atthat point move through that
and get to that next level.
So when I reallydug deep and figured
out that was the part Iliked, I thought, all right.
Maybe I should justbe doing this not
under that corporate umbrellaand doing this work on my own
on my own terms.
(05:46):
Thus was born a coachingbusiness at that point,
which is seven oreight years ago now.
And I am still working mostlywith female entrepreneurs
and helping themgrow their business.
But I also have now, atthis point, written a book
and have five yearsworth of podcast episodes
out there on my own too.
(06:07):
And I speak to audiencesaround the country,
and so that's reallythe long version, Jill,
of the gradual evolutionwith a few pivots.
But none of it was planneduntil it was planned.
JILL FINLAYSON (06:21):
I heard a couple of things in just your recap
that I'd love to know,how did you figure it out?
What made you aware that youwere not in the right job?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (06:30):
I think it's actually
an interesting mix or mergeof a couple different things.
Some of them I just didn'tlike how it aligned with what
was happening in my family.
So I think we always haveto remember that part.
I didn't like the hours I wasworking at one point in relation
(06:50):
to when my kids were awake.
So I didn't like that part.
Other points I didn't like,the fact in that corporate role
where I would come up with whatI thought were great ideas,
and then they hadto get passed--
they would be identifiedactually as great ideas.
But then they had to gothrough the powers that be,
(07:11):
and they never wouldcome to fruition.
And that was reallyfrustrating to me at one point.
So I didn't like thedynamic, we'll call it,
or the hierarchy of things.
In another job Ihad at one point,
I didn't like thelack of control
I had over my day to day.
So it's interestingbecause a lot of us
(07:32):
say, oh, we want things toalways be varied and different.
We do, but our brain doeslike some consistency as well.
So one of those jobs I had,it was just too much chaos
all at one time.
So I think why I switchedjobs or career paths
or took a different trajectorywas never one thing alone.
(07:56):
It was always acombination of things.
And I think that'sstill true today.
The people that I'mworking with today,
as I look at my own kidswho are in their early 20s,
it's never just onething, I don't think.
I think it's alwaysjust a combination.
JILL FINLAYSON (08:15):
Why do you think the past is not the best
indicator of the future?
Oftentimes we think aboutyou get your first job.
Then you get moreresponsibility.
And then you get moreresponsibility, and you move up.
But it's based onyour past performance.
Is it a good model?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (08:30):
I think moving up within an organization does--
in like their eyes,them versus you,
they do have to go on something.
So I think pastperformance is helpful
if you're the employerand thinking about,
does this employeeneed to be elevated?
(08:51):
But if you're theemployee, you are
in charge of your own destiny.
And yes, you can learnthings from your past.
But like you said,it doesn't have
to tell the fortune ofwhere you want to be.
So I think what's interesting,if you think about pivot
versus plan journey, a lotof times the past tells us
what we don't like.
(09:13):
But it doesn't tell uswhat we do want or like.
And that has to come somewhatfrom your imagination or your
giving yourself spaceto think about things
or your dreaming abilities.
And that is all future based.
So I like to sayyou've got to take
(09:35):
some direction fromthat future you,
and you've got to think aboutwhat would he or she like doing,
or what do you want yourfamily dynamic to look like?
And how is your work goingto integrate into that?
So you can learn from thepast, but it's not always
(09:55):
going to tell youwhat the future holds.
JILL FINLAYSON: Who is the future? (09:59):
undefined
ANDREA LIEBROSS (10:00):
You've got to think about future you
with a big smileon his or her face.
They are liking, lovingwhat they're doing.
Are there difficult challenges?
Yes.
It's not smiles all the time.
But they are feeling successful.
They are feelingprobably purposeful.
(10:22):
They are feeling like thingsare flowing in their lives.
They are feeling energizedby what's happening.
And so if that's the case--
and you have to really dig intothe feeling aspect of it-- then
what are they doing?
What is that future you doing?
And if we think about feelinglike things are flowing,
(10:44):
energized, smiling, balanced,potentially, what are they
doing in order to create that?
What role or job or professionor business are they in?
And if you giveyourself enough space
to think about that, thenyou can go to future you
and say, OK, future you,what should I do today?
(11:07):
So I like to say futureyou is really a person.
It's you three orfive years from now.
So picture all of thisas an actual human.
And it's like you'remeeting future you.
You need to go becomefriends with that future you.
So future you is, out of thatcuriosity type of thinking,
urging you to tryon different ideas,
(11:29):
almost like you'retrying on-- you're
in a dressing room ata department store,
if we actually go intostores these days.
And you're trying ondifferent outfits.
You're trying ondifferent clothing.
Or you're tryingdifferent sports.
What are you trying on?
So future you isvery much ambitious.
Future you is someone who'swilling to explore and to really
(11:56):
try on the options.
You've got to beopen to options.
And I think when you'rein that dressing room,
if you've ever had anyonehelp you in a dressing room
and they say, hey, I knowyou kind of passed over
this on the rack, but I actuallythink you should try this on,
you should try--
(12:16):
I've seen it on otherpeople, and people
seem to really like it.
Will you give it a try?
And that's the same inour professional life.
I've seen this work for peoplewho seem similar to you.
Have you everthought about this?
Give it a try.
Try it on.
Or I know you reallydon't love red.
But there are 52 shades of red.
(12:40):
So the pinks might actuallywork out better for you.
Pink's a shade of red.
Would you try this on?
So future you is almost likethat sales person that's
outside the dressingroom that's handing
you things over the door.
JILL FINLAYSON (12:55):
And it sounds like future you is not alone
either.
There are other people whocan help provide ideas.
ANDREA LIEBROSS (13:01):
Yes, yes.
So I think you've got toget yourself in a position
where you are fully supported.
You are fully supported.
You are not just relyingon your friends and family
to help guide you.
They're almost morecommiserators in a way.
Or they can validatewhat you're thinking.
(13:22):
But are they pushing you?
Are they challenging you at all?
Are they throwing over thegreen things over the edge
of the dressing room to you?
Or are they beinglike, yeah, I know.
You never wear green.
So that's OK.
Your friends andfamily, their job
is to love you and support youin a way that feels good to you.
(13:44):
But who else is supportingyou in a way that
might be a little more honestor a little more exploratory
or create a littlebit more curiosity
or push you intoa little bit more
of a risky risk-rewardtype of situation?
Everybody needs those kindsof people in their lives too.
And they can look like mentors.
They can look like coaches.
(14:06):
They can look like colleagues.
It could be your best friend, ifthat's the kind of relationship
you have.
But I would encourage everybodyto get out there and see,
who do you have in your supportnetwork that can help future
you move this thing along?
JILL FINLAYSON (14:20):
Yeah, I've been very fortunate
to have a number of bosses whohave both given me enough rope
to go do things but have alsogiven, what you're suggesting,
a nudge or a push totake on something that
might seem a little audacious.
ANDREA LIEBROSS (14:33):
Yes, yes, which could be big
thinking in a way,which is another thing
that I really am aproponent of, thinking big.
JILL FINLAYSON (14:42):
What is thinking big?
ANDREA LIEBROSS: Thinking big is the kind (14:44):
undefined
of thinking that comes fromfuture you, first of all.
But when we are talkingabout our future
or making decisions ashow to move forward,
big thinking isreally a tool that you
can have in your toolbox.
And I use an acronymTRUST, T-R-U-S-T,
(15:07):
to describe what bigthinking is all about.
And TRUST has fiveletters in it,
and I say that there'sfive keys to thinking big.
JILL FINLAYSON (15:18):
All right, let's break it down.
What is the first T in TRUST?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (15:23):
So the first T in TRUST
stands for thought options.
And you have thoughtsabout every single thing,
every word someone saysout of their mouth,
every fact that's out there.
So if you are saying, OK, it'ssunny and 70 degrees today,
it's a fact.
We're in Berkeley.
And I am not in Berkeley,but let's pretend I'm
(15:44):
there with you.
And it's sunny and 70.
Some people may have a thoughtor you might have a thought
at 8:00 AM, ugh, why is today,this Monday, 70 and sunny.
Yesterday it was raining and 50.
So your thought is, I wishit wasn't 70 and sunny today.
I wish it was yesterday.
(16:05):
That could be a thought.
You also could have a thoughtat 8:02 because your brain likes
to switch quickly, oh my gosh,this is going to be great.
The drive to work is goingto be so much easier.
So happy it's 70 and sunny.
Or you could, Ican't wait till 4:00.
That's what I'm going to beable to get outside and take
advantage of the day.
So there are factsout there, and we
(16:28):
get to choose whichthought we want to have.
Then the R in TRUSTstands for real problems.
So all big thinkers know thatthe real problem is really
just the fact that you don'twant to feel something negative.
(16:51):
There is no real problem.
The only problem is youdon't want to experience
negative thinking.
The U in TRUST stands forembracing the unknown.
So we don't even know what'sgoing to happen this afternoon.
We don't know what'sgoing to happen tomorrow.
Our brain reallywants to know though.
(17:13):
It doesn't likeunknown or uncertainty.
But big thinkers have toprobably take some risks.
Future you, future youis probably a risk taker.
So all big thinkersout there, they
have to embrace theunknown or uncertainty.
Then S in TRUST, S stands forsecure support, which actually
we kind of hit on previously.
(17:35):
Everybody out therethat is a big thinker,
I don't know any of themthat are doing it alone.
They all have sometype of support system
that are really going to serve--
as I like to say, they're goingto be able to read the label.
So you are stuck in the jar.
You're stuck in yourown peanut butter jar.
And it's so sticky inthere that sometimes it's
really hard to seewhat's happening,
(17:57):
and you need someone to pointthat out to you and for you.
So that's what the Sstands for in trust.
And then the lastT in trust stands
for taking massive action,taking massive action, not
passive action.
Passive action isreading a book.
It's listening to a podcast.
Now, clearly I like both things.
(18:19):
It's not like I don'tlike reading or listening
to podcasts, but that's justus absorbing information.
Are you doing anything with it?
When I do my own podcast, Ialways have a homework section,
and I say, OK, thankyou for listening
through the whole thing.
You're still here with me.
Now I want to give yousome homework where you
can take some massive action.
(18:41):
So for the last Tin TRUST stands for
take real massive action.
JILL FINLAYSON (18:45):
I like massive, not passive.
[LAUGHS]
ANDREA LIEBROSS (18:48):
Yes.
JILL FINLAYSON (18:48):
That's great.
When I think about this,I used to work at eBay,
and they had aphrase called BHAG,
big, hairy, audacious goal.
And the idea was you wanted togo for exponential growth, not
incremental growth,and you wanted
to have a big goalbecause, if you fell short,
you still went furtherthan you thought.
(19:10):
But for a lot ofpeople, they might ask,
why do I have to think big?
Why I just think next?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (19:16):
Hmm, OK, so this is a great question.
And I think what happenshere is, if we think next,
what is the next best step?
It's a great question.
But is it pushingyou farther faster?
So I like to think about,what if we dismiss next step
(19:37):
and we go right to leap?
What would a leap look like?
And leaps are actuallyway more powerful.
And leaps are sometimes madeup of little next steps.
But if you can get yourbrain to the leap place,
you are going tosee more progress.
So I was on a coachingcall the other day,
(19:58):
and we were talkingabout this, same thing
here, the next stepversus the leap
or having that big, hairy,audacious goal versus just
a next step.
And my client said to me,I feel like I'm successful.
I've seen success.
It's not just a feeling.
But I want tremendous success.
She kept going back tothat word "tremendous."
(20:19):
And we actually googledit, and we looked.
We got all geeky,and we figured,
what did Webster's dictionarysay about "tremendous?"
And it really has thissense of largeness to it.
But nowhere, nowhere in thedefinition did they mention
the word "scary" or "fear."
So I think sometimesthat's what prevents us
(20:41):
from going towards those bigthings or taking that leap.
But it doesn't haveto be that way.
So I would say go for the leap.
JILL FINLAYSON (20:51):
The association I have with leap
is kind of interesting.
When you think about socialentrepreneurship or developing
economies, one ofthe things we discuss
is they don't have torepeat the mistakes
that other countries have made.
They can leapfrog.
They can go rightto a better solution
rather than going throughmistakes and evolution
(21:11):
that other countrieswent through.
Do you think there's asimilar parallel for people?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (21:15):
100%.
So this could go back tothe past as a teacher.
What do we remember most?
We don't remember thoselittle next steps.
We remember thebig, big changes.
Or when I was recountingmy last 30 years,
I gave you some highlights, andthose were really the leaps.
They weren't the small steps.
(21:38):
So that is a good analogy.
JILL FINLAYSON (21:40):
That actually reminds
me of when people writetheir resume, that is
the summary of their successes.
It doesn't necessarilytalk about their failures.
What role do failures play inthis growth and career planning?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (21:55):
Well, I think, if you've ever
gone through the exerciseof doing a life plan--
have you ever done that?
It's like a-- OK.
So it starts to look like agraph of ebbs and flows or peaks
and valleys.
And you plot out, hey,these were my successes,
and they're the peaks.
(22:16):
But then these were the lows.
And in the instructionsto do this life plan,
it prompt you tolook at the lows.
And you realize that sometimesthere's just as many lows
as there are peaks or such asmany valleys as there are peaks.
And I think what that doesis it helps us assess--
(22:40):
looking at thosevalleys or lows helps
us assess, why was that a low?
Or why does our brainassociate it as a low?
And it tells you a little bitabout what you don't want,
but it doesn't necessarilytell you what you do want.
(23:00):
And I think that'swhere you have
to honestly rely on yourself alittle more and not the facts.
That's where you have to--
we've all heard theexpression like,
you've got to liftyourself up out of this.
Or I just, I just--
I'm putting just in air quotes--
I just have to getover it and move on.
(23:22):
There's another expression.
But is it telling us whatwe have to move on to?
Not really.
So the lows or thevalleys tell us
what we don't want,what we don't like,
what we don't want to feel.
But they don't necessarilytell us how to get out of it.
And that's whereyou have to rely
on that future you to almostpull you out of the valley
(23:44):
or pull you out of the low.
JILL FINLAYSON (23:46):
I think there's a couple observations which
people forget or overlook,which is that it's not
a smooth ride here.
You don't just have a careerpath that goes uphill.
It's these dips and valleysall the way along the way.
ANDREA LIEBROSS (24:01):
Yep, yep.
And I think you have to thinkabout what might pull you out
of the valley.
You have to think about, whatmight make this a home run
for me?
What would help mejump out of the valley?
What would feel amazing?
And sometimes that's hard to do.
I think it's easier to do whenwe're looking at someone else
and thinking, what would makethis a home run for them?
(24:24):
What do we think they want?
But when we're doing it forourselves, it's a lot harder.
JILL FINLAYSON (24:30):
In this economy, even ambitious folks
may feel anxious orstuck or almost feel
like they have tostay where they are
because it's a little bit safe.
How do you help people thinkabout risks and rewards
and embark on this journey?
ANDREA LIEBROSS: Well, I like to think (24:46):
undefined
about using a thought bridge.
So how do I get from where Iam now to where I want to go?
How do I embark?
Thought bridges linkyour past to your future.
And I think ofliterally a bridge,
a wooden bridge with planks,and you're on one side.
It's called theland of impossible.
And then on the otherside, where you want to go,
(25:08):
is the land of inevitable.
And as you go over, youget to a peak in the bridge
because the bridge isa little circular type
of rainbowy bridge.
And at the top is whatis really possible.
But each step or eachplank in the bridge
represents the next best step.
(25:28):
And to get over, you've got totrain your brain to figure out
how to keep moving forward.
So what do I need to do?
I need to get out thereand ask some questions.
That's maybe step 1.
OK, I ask the questions.
Now I'm going to take theinfo, come back to home base,
(25:49):
synthesize, decide whatmy next best step is.
OK, now I took thenext best step.
I didn't ask questions.
I actually put my resumeout there, for example.
OK, now the resume is out there.
Now I have to follow up.
Each of these wooden planksrepresents a next best step.
You get to a place at the peakwhere you feel like, OK, I
(26:09):
think I've got some traction.
I think I'm actually goingto get over the bridge.
And our brain, though, wants toleap from one side of the river
to the other.
And I think that's a goodthing to keep in mind.
However, you do have to figureout what each next step is
and to think about,what do I need
(26:30):
to do to actually shineas I move forward?
What would make it ahome run for the people
that I'm going toget in front of?
What do they really need?
What do they really want?
And how do I show upon that next plank
of the bridge in a way that'sgoing to do that for them?
JILL FINLAYSON (26:50):
I think a lot of people
do feel like they're livingin the land of impossible,
but it's really hard.
You mentionedsubmitting a resume,
but that's the tip ofthe iceberg, right?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (27:02):
It is.
It is.
That's the easy part.
JILL FINLAYSON (27:04):
And people are submitting 200 resumes
and not hearing backor getting rejection.
So how do you helppeople with the mindset?
What do you mean by mindset?
And what kind of shifts areyou asking people to make?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (27:18):
I just experienced this
with my own kids actually.
So they're enteringthis job market,
and that 200 resumething is a real thing.
That's no exaggeration.
And unfortunately, there'sno follow up even sometimes.
You don't know becauseit goes into oblivion,
and you're just waitingand waiting and waiting.
What do I even wakeup and do today?
So what I thinkyou have to assess
(27:40):
is your resourceshere that you have
in moving into thatnext phase of life,
that next job, that nextbusiness, that next whatever.
You've got time, money,people, people around you,
and you have energy.
Those are your fourmost valuable resources.
And those are thethings that are
(28:01):
going to help youmove past that barrier
or get into that next place.
And they can be barriersin and of themselves,
or they can be used as tools.
So you might say, I don'tknow if applying for this job
(28:22):
is going to give me as muchmoney as I have right now.
The money might not be as good.
Should I go for it?
Well, are you givingequal airtime to the money
might be better or time?
I don't know if Ican get flexibility,
the same flexibility thatI have now, elsewhere.
(28:42):
Well, what if you goteven more flexibility?
So here's this equalairtime type of thing.
Here's where future you ispulling you over the bridge.
People, am I going to thepeople I'm working with or not?
My people right now,they're pretty good.
I don't know if I couldcreate a better situation.
What if they were even better?
(29:02):
What if they were evenbetter supporters of you?
What if they helped catapult youinto that even next opportunity?
The last thing, and the mostimportant thing I think,
how to move past the barrier,how to get beyond the 200 resume
abyss is tapping into your ownenergy or your own brain power.
(29:23):
That is ultimately your mostvaluable resource in all of this
because you canuse your brainpower
to create moretime or more money
or get yourself withthe right people.
Are you spending yourenergy or your brainpower
on the right things?
Are you stuck inthe here and now?
(29:45):
Or are you workingtoward the future?
And I'll give you an example.
My son actually just wentthrough a job search,
but he did sign acontract last week.
So thank you, Lord, for that.
But he had put hisresume out there,
and he was workingwith headhunters too.
And things seem to be eithergoing into the resume abyss.
Or he was getting through tothe final round of things,
(30:08):
but nothing was clicking.
And we had thiswhole discussion,
and he just feltlike he was up to--
there was a barrier.
So there was one company hewas really interested in,
and he lives in Boston.
And this organization wasin Nashville, Tennessee.
And I said, what if youasked the headhunter
if any of the top dogsever come to Boston?
(30:31):
Because they did haveclients in Boston.
He figured that out.
And could you meet inperson with someone
from the organization?
Could you meet for coffeeor drink or whatever?
And to him, that seemedlike, mom, no one does that.
Everything's on Zoom untilyou get to the final round.
That's not happening.
It's not happening.
(30:51):
Of course, what do I know too?
I'm just his mom.
So he did.
I'm sure you can figure out whatthe end of the story is here.
He did do that.
And sure enough, a guy wascoming to Boston the next week,
and he met him.
It was like 25 minutes, he said.
He met them in the groundfloor of his building
in downtown Boston.
(31:11):
They, I don't know, musthave had a great conversation
because the nextthing he knew, he
was invited to go to Nashville.
And that is the jobhe actually landed.
If we go back and we look atall the jobs he applied to,
he hadn't met anyone in personat any of these organizations
until that very final round.
So my point here is he hadto use his brainpower--
(31:32):
and he borrowed alittle of mine--
to create more opportunities.
And I think that's whatyou've got to really go back
to is your own energyand your own brain power,
aligning it withthat future you.
JILL FINLAYSON (31:47):
So I've both been this person
and met people who have beenin career positions which have,
I would say, beat them down,have affected their self-esteem.
How do you help those peopleget on the first plank
when they're just feelinga lot of self-doubt?
How do you help those people?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (32:06):
Yeah, this is hard stuff.
This is hard stuff.
But I think you can go back to,what do you have in your court?
So you've been beaten down.
You don't love what you do.
You feel like there is no hope.
But what do you have?
You have skills.
You have solved problems.
(32:29):
You have people around you.
You have opportunity.
You can learn things.
You can tap intoyour brain power.
You can figure out what thatnext job might be looking for
and learn how to do that.
There's the thoughtoption type of thinking.
JILL FINLAYSON (32:51):
The thought options, you
have to believe that there issomething out there for you.
So it seems like the firstleap you have to make.
ANDREA LIEBROSS (32:58):
Yeah, so the first leap
is really about belief.
And when I work with myclients, a lot of times
they'll come to me, and they'lljust say, what do I need to do?
So they want theiraction plan, all right,
which we all wantan action plan.
And then they'll say,and I'm on this timeline.
I really want this all tohappen before January 1.
(33:20):
OK, got it.
We can create an action plan.
We can create a timeplan, our timeline.
But do you have a belief plan?
And then they look at me like,what are you talking about?
This is like, way too woo.
And it's not woo, OK.
It's not.
What do you needto believe in order
(33:41):
to land that next position?
You've got to believe thatyou have something to offer.
You've got tobelieve that there is
some person, some organizations,some firms, something
that wants to work with you.
You've got to believe that anold dog can learn new tricks.
You've got to believethat, yeah, there
can be something that's way moreflexible than I have right now,
(34:04):
even if you think you'vegot great flexibility.
So there's a lotof this you've got
to believe in the possibilitiesand the opportunities.
So I like to say, yes,you need an action plan.
Yes, you need a time plan.
But you also need a belief plan.
And that's what's really goingto start the ball rolling.
(34:28):
That's what's going toeven get you to the bridge.
JILL FINLAYSON (34:31):
So if you have a belief
plan, going to theR in TRUST, how
do you know if you havean actual real problem
or it is that negative thinking?
What is an activity to help youfigure out, is this a problem?
Do I have a gap?
Or is this something thatI'm just holding myself back
and I'm self-limiting?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (34:50):
I think you have to look
at it through a different lens.
So I like to say changeyour glasses out.
And would someone else that isnot engrossed in the situation
consider this a problem?
Let's say you'vesubmitted the 200 resumes,
and you're tellingeverybody in the world,
I'm just not getting any bites.
(35:11):
This is horrible.
I have a problem.
There must be somethingwrong with me.
Maybe there's somethingwrong with my resume.
Maybe I need to tweak something.
Yeah, maybe you doneed to tweak some.
Maybe you're right.
But what would someone sayto you, is that a problem?
No, they'd probably say, yeah,but you might get a new job when
you submit resume 201.
(35:34):
So you have to go backto thought options.
Would someone else considerthis a huge problem?
Or would they say, well,it's not really a problem,
it's just that you don't likehow this feels right now?
Because it doesn't feel good tonot get any response after 200
resumes.
So 99.999% of thetime there really
(35:57):
isn't an unsolvable problem.
The real problem isjust that you don't
want to feel a certain way.
JILL FINLAYSON (36:04):
You mentioned earlier Ally McBeal.
I'm going to date myself as wellhere and talk about the X-Files
with FBI agents FoxMulder and Dana Scully,
and they come to mindbecause they're investigating
unexplained cases.
And you were saying that youhave to embrace the unknown.
Why are people uncomfortable?
We just talked about havingto feel uncomfortable.
(36:26):
Why do people feeluncomfortable with the unknown?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (36:29):
So if we put our neuroscience hat on,
there's something calledthe motivational triad.
And as humans, we'remotivated by three things.
We want things tofeel comfortable.
We want to be safe.
And we want thingsto be efficient.
And when you're talkingabout pivoting or changing
(36:53):
trajectories orstarting a new endeavor,
there is nothingcomfortable, efficient,
or safe about any of those.
So if you go backto like caveman era,
the caveman didn't wantto come out of the cave
because he or she were scaredof what was outside of the cave.
(37:14):
So let's just stayin this comfy cave.
Let's hibernate.
Let's stay in.
Even if you don't likewhere you're at, it's safe.
It's human nature for us tonot want to do something new,
do something that mightbe a little bit hard.
It's definitely not efficient.
There's no efficientthing about 200 resumes.
(37:37):
There's no comfortablething about meeting someone
in an interview situation.
So it's almost like, no wonderwe want to stay in the known
or in the certainty.
Of course we do.
That's motivational triad.
But we can't createchange unless we
(37:58):
do embrace that unknownor that uncertainty.
And I think whatcaptured our attention
with Fox Mulder and DanaScully in investigating
these unexplained cases isthat there's an excitement.
Sometimes you say,how do you feel?
Oh, I'm excited,but I'm nervous.
Usually excited and nervousor anxious and excited,
(38:22):
they're words that kindof sometimes go together.
And that is becausewe're excited about what
might be possible.
There's our curiosity factor.
But we're nervousbecause we know
we're going intoa territory where
it's going to be hard anduncomfortable and efficient.
JILL FINLAYSON (38:39):
So reframing the scary into exciting.
ANDREA LIEBROSS (38:42):
Yeah, and both scary and exciting,
if you think aboutit, are fleeting.
So go back to that life planwith the peaks and valleys.
It is a peak.
It is a split second.
And it's a valley.
It's a split second,a roller coaster ride.
They're quick.
So there's excitement and fear,excitement and fear, excitement
and fear.
So I think in lifewhat we're always
(39:05):
searching for is that happymedium, the middle, the neutral,
where we don't have to feeleither excited or anxious.
We can just be atpeace with things.
We can be contentwith what's happening.
And whether that's ussolving an unexplained case
or looking for anew career or job
or going back to school,whatever that is,
(39:26):
we just want to get intoit and start to figure out
what our day to dayis going to look like,
and you have toknow that that is
at the other sideof the rainbow.
You're going to get into it.
You're going to reach aplace of neutral eventually.
JILL FINLAYSON (39:43):
And going to the S in TRUST,
securing support, what is thetactical plan for securing
support?
Because, as you alluded to,we're much harsher on ourselves
than our friends are.
They ask us for advice.
We'd be like, yeah,you can do it.
Yay.
But if we ask ourselves,we're like, no, I can't.
So how do you secure support?
Do you make a listof people to talk to?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (40:04):
I operationalize it
by saying, who do you wanton your personal board
of directors?
And that's a really goodanalogy and operational standard
that you could go through.
So if you thinkabout organizations,
they comprise a board ofdirectors, that it's handpicked.
They want someone onthat board of directors
who has finance experience,legal experience, depending
(40:25):
on what the field is maybe somemedical experience, running
teams, whatever theorganization is.
But they handpick who'son the board of directors.
So who do you need onyour board of directors?
Now, one person you might needon your board of directors
is an ally or a friend who'sgoing to say, go for it,
(40:47):
or that's OK you didn't get it.
Better luck next time.
Yeah, you do need that ally.
But you also needsomeone strategic
that might say, yeah,the reason you probably
didn't get that is because youdidn't highlight your ability
to do x, y, and z.
They're going totell you the truth.
Or you might needsomeone on there
that says you need tothink about people skills.
(41:11):
And are you highlightingall of the things
that you've donemanaging others?
So you've got to getreally strategic on who
is on your board of directorsand try to fill the seats.
I look for someonewho is asking you
questions that'sgoing to lead you
(41:33):
to the massive action orthe next step or the leap.
So that personneeds to have skill
in question asking actually.
They are not just tellers.
They're not necessarilyconsultants.
They are more filling a coachtype of role, going to motivate.
(41:56):
They have to be reallygood question askers.
They have to help yousee the possibilities.
And they have tobe there with you
through the thick and the thin,regardless of the outcome.
If you don't havesomeone with you that's
going to stick with youregardless of the outcome,
you need thatperson that's going
(42:16):
to show up week after week.
Questions, showingyou possibilities,
not motivating you-- youhave to motivate yourself
in the true sense-- but who'sgoing to walk alongside you
or who's going tobe a guide and who's
going to call you out too whenyou don't make a good play.
JILL FINLAYSON (42:36):
This may be a little stereotypical,
but if women havebeen culturized
to have friends andpeople that they
can talk to about thesethings, how do you help the men
you're coaching findthat support network?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (42:51):
That's a great question.
It does seem a littlebit harder in a sense.
I think what's interestingis the women usually
don't have trouble finding thecommiserators and the allies.
They have a harder timefinding the strategic players
in a sense.
Men, on the otherhand, sometimes
(43:12):
have a hard time finding theallies or the commiserators
because that to them mightbe a sign of weakness.
This is all just normswe're talking about.
There's always exceptions.
But I think honesty is reallythe key denominator here.
So a woman has tobe honest in saying,
I don't reallyunderstand anything
(43:32):
about business finances.
I probably should, and I'membarrassed to say I don't.
So I need to get that financeperson on my board of directors.
A male might say,I got to be honest.
I could have all the lawyers,finance people, operations
people galore, but Ineed to find someone
(43:54):
that I can justreally let it all out
and be honest in that way.
And I think those friendshipsare usually with men.
I always say, lookfor the commonalities.
Who do you havesomething in common with?
And ask.
You have to ask.
Are you asking them to beon the board of directors.
That's actually a greatway to even put it.
(44:16):
Hey, I've got somechallenges happening.
I've got some change up ahead.
I need people on mypersonal board of directors.
Would you be on it?
And people are usually honored.
JILL FINLAYSON (44:27):
So you've coached a lot of people.
You've given them this advice.
What barriers havepeople run into?
And what's the biggeststopper for them?
ANDREA LIEBROSS: The biggest stopper? (44:35):
undefined
OK, I would saythe biggest stopper
that our brain likes tocome up with is time.
I'd say that's what our brainoffers up the most, that time,
we just don't have enough time.
We just don't have enoughtime to fit everything
(44:57):
in if we don't havetime to balance
our family with our currentjob or occupation or business.
And we don't have timethen to insert something
new, new goals, new endeavors.
It just seems likewe're piling things on.
(45:17):
So I think thisis when you really
have to get good atdeciding what's important,
what's urgent, what's importantbut maybe not urgent, what's
urgent but not important,and then what's
neither urgent nor important.
(45:38):
So let's divide outwhat's happening
right now into four quadrants.
And you've got urgent, noturgent, important, not important
as the labels of these axes.
And when you puteverything down on paper,
you're going to see thatthere are things there
that aren't urgent or importantthat you could delegate
(46:00):
or delete or even schedule.
They're like, no fornow, but not forever.
So there's something called anEisenhower matrix out there,
and if you Google it,you're going to find it.
I think Dwight Eisenhower wasthe originator of all of this.
But he has this matrix,and I have a version of it
(46:20):
too, where I try to say,what do we need to plan?
Plan meaning it's stillin the planning stages.
You can't reallyeven schedule it
because then the nextstep is schedule.
What do we need to do right now?
And then what can we delegate?
And if you get good at thatdo, delegate, delete, schedule
(46:42):
or do, plan, schedule,delegate, however
you want to labelthose things, you're
going to see that youdo have plenty of time.
JILL FINLAYSON: You've called yourself (46:52):
undefined
a life-balance architect.
So when you thinkabout this idea
of these multilayeredproblems, how
are you helping peoplebalance their life?
They've got your current job.
You've got the goals for whatyou want to have as another job.
But you might haveelderly parents to take
care of or children or pets.
(47:12):
Or you got to repair thecars or get it smog checked.
There's a lot going onin everyone's lives.
How do you help them thinkabout planning this career
goal trajectory in the midstof all this messy middle noise?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (47:28):
Yeah.
How many of those things on thatto do list align with that five
year from now future you?
How many of thosewould future you
be like, yes, you definitelyneed to do that today?
Do we really needto go to Target?
Is that the mostimportant thing?
Or do I need to send out 10 moreresumes versus just picking up
(47:51):
the phone and callingone person that
might get us further faster?
So you have to take adifferent set of glasses,
look at how you'respending your time,
and honestly on a dailybasis get that granular.
And are the thingsthat you're doing,
would future be applauding you?
Or would it just be like eh?
(48:11):
And that's how you have todecide where to put your energy.
JILL FINLAYSON (48:17):
When you think about the idea of manifesting,
like, I can seeit, I can make it
happen, if you don'thave that kind of vision,
it's hard to dothat prioritization.
ANDREA LIEBROSS (48:29):
It totally is.
So one of the thingsI do with my clients,
I call it avision-into-action intensive,
and it lays the foundationfor the work we do together.
And I get some pushback.
People are like, I have a plan.
We can skip that step.
But after I do that,I get many thanks
because it's creating space.
It's creating thatstrategic pause for you
(48:50):
to really dig deeperinto what you want,
what you're envisioningfor your future,
and then ensuring that howyou're setting yourself up,
what you're doing today, theactions, so vision into action,
the actions thatyou're taking really
are in line with that visionbecause too often we just
(49:11):
can go down rabbit holes orlots of shiny objects or things
you think you definitely,definitely need to do.
Yet really do you?
Does it align with whereyou want to go long term?
And that's why I think it's soimportant to get your vision out
there and then decide fromthere what your actions are.
JILL FINLAYSON (49:33):
Yeah.
I think sometimes we hope thatthings will just fall into place
or fall into our lap, buttypically that doesn't happen.
And so do you have somefinal tips on thinking big?
Where do they start?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (49:47):
I think a great place to start
is this visioning.
It's hard to do by yourselfbecause our brain wants
to come up with all theexcuses, like we talked about,
of why things aren't possible.
Or I get the question, doyou want something realistic?
Or is this really inmy wildest dreams?
And I think you have to goto in my wildest dreams.
(50:08):
And that's hard to do on ourown for more than 10 seconds.
So I would say grab a friend,grab a friend or someone
on your board of directorsand plan an hour.
And you can do this whileyou're on a walk even.
I recommend thatyou put it on paper.
But if you're walking with yourphone, talk into your phone.
(50:31):
There's so much AI out there,too, that you could use.
Talk into your phone,but have another human
on the other end at least.
And have that personasking you, why this?
Why that?
What does that look like?
What's it going to feel like?
And get it out.
But give yourself a 60minute block of time,
even while you're moving--sometimes while you're moving,
it comes out better--
(50:52):
to get that visiondown there on paper.
JILL FINLAYSON (50:56):
Give me three prompts
that I could go ask myself.
ANDREA LIEBROSS (51:00):
What do I want to feel like in five years?
And how does thatdiffer from today?
How do I want to be remembered?
My funeral is tomorrow.
How do I want to be remembered?
That's really important.
And then how do I want toshow up on a daily basis?
How do I want to showup for my family?
How do I want to showup for my colleagues?
(51:22):
How do I want to showup on the soccer field?
How do I want to show up whenI'm hanging out with friends
on a Saturday night?
How do I want to show up?
Those questions are notprofession specific.
They're not business specific.
They're not career specific.
But they're going to giveyou an outline to figure out
what that path looks like.
JILL FINLAYSON (51:42):
They're going to be the foundation.
Give me a closing inspiration.
How do we know this will work?
ANDREA LIEBROSS (51:48):
You have to go back to our belief plan
because how would weknow it won't work?
I guess is a better question.
What does not working look like?
If you go back tomy story, there
are all those timeswhen I was like, yeah,
I decided I didn't wantto do that anymore.
Well, there was atime when I decided it
was the best thing ever, right?
And I said yes to it.
So something doesn't workonly after it does work.
(52:09):
You've got to be opento those possibilities.
You have to believethat it will work.
And you have to believethat you'll know
when it's no longer working.
So I think it goes backto that belief plan.
JILL FINLAYSON (52:21):
Well, thank you so much, Andrea.
It's been greatchatting with you today.
ANDREA LIEBROSS (52:25):
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.
It's been a pleasure.
JILL FINLAYSON (52:27):
And with that, I hope
you enjoyed this latest ina long series of podcasts
that we'll be sendingyour way every month.
Please share withfriends and colleagues
who may be interested in takingthis Future of Work journey
with us.
And make sure to checkout extension.berkeley.edu
find a variety ofcourses and certificates
to help you thrive in thisnew working landscape.
And to see what's comingup next at EDGE in Tech,
(52:48):
go ahead and visitedge.berkeley.edu.
Thanks so much forlistening, and I'll
be back next month to continueour Future of Work journey.
The Future of Work podcastis hosted by Jill Finlayson,
produced by Sarah Benzuly,and edited by Matt Dipietro.
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