August 5, 2025 • 46 mins
From jumpers for goalposts on a council estate to managing at the highest level of women’s football, Carla Ward’s journey is one of courage, resilience and breaking through barriers. Now leading the Republic of Ireland women’s national team with ambitions to reach the 2027 World Cup, Carla has navigated a fast rise from player to coach, defied expectations, and spoken openly about the reality of balancing a demanding football career with motherhood.
In this powerful episode of The Game Changers, Carla shares the unfiltered truth about life in football, leadership, and the challenges female coaches face in the modern game.
We talk about:
- Growing up in grassroots football when girls’ teams didn’t exist
- The emotional and brutal transition from player to manager overnight
- Building winning teams through culture, unity and belief
- Surviving the toughest jobs and proving doubters wrong
- The sacrifices of coaching and the impact on family life
- Why women coaches deserve more opportunities – and fair pay
- Leading a national side and dreaming of World Cup success
An honest and eye-opening conversation about risk-taking, resilience and the fight for equality in women’s football.
Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.
Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media
A Fearless Women production
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sue Anstiss (00:03):
Hello and welcome to The Game Changers.
I'm Sue Anstiss, and this isthe podcast where you'll hear
from trailblazing women in sportwho are knocking down barriers
and challenging the status quofor women and girls everywhere.
What can we learn from theirjourneys as we explore key
issues around equality in sportand beyond?
I'd like to start with a bigthank you to our partners, sport
(00:24):
England, who support the GameChangers podcast through a
national lottery award.
My guest today is Carla Ward,an English football manager
who's currently leading theRepublic of Ireland women's
national team, with an ambitionto qualify for the 2027 World
Cup.
Carla's extensive playing careeras a midfielder includes stints
(00:47):
at Leeds, bristol, doncasterand Sheffield, along with time
playing in Spain.
Her most successful spell cameat Sheffield FC, where she was
club captain, making over 200appearances and scoring over 100
goals.
Carla then moved into coachingand had a very significant
impact at women's teams atSheffield United, birmingham
(01:08):
City and Aston Villa, beforerecently taking this prestigious
role with the Republic ofIreland's national team.
So, Carla, your coaching andmanagerial journey are
fascinating, but I'd like tostart with your playing career,
if I can.
So where did it all start foryou?
Carla ward (01:29):
Grew up on a council estate with a lot of boys.
It's always the way, isn't it?
So, yeah, I started out in asmall estate in Torquay where
all the boys played and it wasprobably the only thing that
most people did, and I wasn'tone to hang around with the
girls when I was young, to behonest.
So off I went over to theschool playing fields and there
(01:50):
was a very large field in themiddle of the estate as well.
So it's jumpers for goalpostsand, yeah, it all started there.
Really used to just lovefootball and playing out with
the boys more than anything.
Sue Anstiss (01:58):
And at what point did you realize that you had
talent beyond kind of playing atthat level?
Carla ward (02:03):
Yeah, I don't know.
I think it's funny because whenI was at school, there was a
boys team.
There was never a girls team.
And I remember one day lookingat and I'd been training, of
course, but I remember lookingevery week the uh sign would go
up of who was in the team and Iwould find my name was on it,
and not only my name was on it,I had the captain's armband next
to me, so I was thinking, oh,I'm in the boys team here.
(02:24):
And then, from that moment on,I thought this is a possibility.
And then, uh, as I grew up, Ijust, um, naturally just had a
love for it, found, found myselfyou know when you find yourself
like good at something that youwere passionate about and I
just continued that.
And then, obviously, the girlsteam started coming along and
makes me sound really old,doesn't it?
(02:44):
But girls teams come along, andthen the women's teams come
along and and, um, yeah, I justkind of kept stepping up and
every time that sort of, evenwhen I was 14, then going into
the seniors earlier than Ishould have, and then all of a
sudden, you're thinking I can dosomething here.
So, yeah, I always loved it.
It was just a very, very strongpassion and I just continued to
(03:05):
play everywhere I went.
And who were?
Sue Anstiss (03:07):
your kind of co-op, who were the peers at that time
as you came through thoseyounger ages.
Carla ward (03:13):
So I played down.
Funnily enough, I played downin Uki and Torquay, both in
Devon and Cornwall, so therewasn't there wasn't too much
going on there.
But then when I went up toBristol and I was playing with
the likes of Siobhan Chamberlainand Katie Holtham and Shelley
Cox at the time, and then when Iwent to Leeds, it was a
star-studded team.
There was me, steph Alton andJade Moore.
In midfield there was EllenWhite and Sue Smith, up top
(03:36):
there was Lucy Ward playing.
That team there wasunbelievable, you know, there
was just some fascinatingplayers and there was just some
fascinating players.
And so, yeah, I've been reallylucky and blessed to have played
with some unbelievable talent,some real champions and winners.
So I've learned a lot along theway.
But yeah, I think deep down Iwas always in a position where I
(03:56):
wanted to stay in it my wholelife.
Sue Anstiss (04:05):
And I listed a range of clubs there, and you've
added Newquay and Torquay tothat as well too.
So was that common for women in, I guess, in that era almost to
move around to play in thatmany clubs to get those
opportunities?
Carla ward (04:11):
We were very yeah, I was very young growing up in,
you know, small towns likeTorquay and Newquay, and you
know there was.
It was quite funny actually,because whilst Newquay is a
million miles away fromeverywhere, we actually had a
team that did tremendously welland we actually got up as high
as the Southern Division, which,if you remember, it used to be
the Premier League, and then theNorth and the South, and we got
(04:32):
as high as the South.
Then we had a year where a lotof us went off to university and
that crumbled, bless him, andthen they plummeted back down.
But yeah, that was more growingup at a very, very early age.
So, um, yeah, just enjoyablereally.
But I think you have to, don'tyou, as a kid, just get get to
where you can play at the bestlevel, and then those other
(04:54):
teams I'm thinking of the onesthat you were kind of then
played in that semi-professionalera.
Sue Anstiss (04:58):
Was that a natural side for women to be moving
across to, to so many differentteams?
Carla ward (05:05):
um, yeah, I think at the time.
Yeah, because, look, there wasno money in it.
Let's be honest, I rememberwhen I um first went to Bristol
they were.
I went to Bath University andthe head of football there was
there the manager at BristolCity Women who were in the
Premier League at the time andhe said he wanted me to come and
play.
You know, he thought I couldmake the step up and I remember
(05:26):
thinking it's 50 pound a weeklike unbelievable and that
sounds crazy.
Right, but that's what it was.
And all of a sudden you'regetting 50 pound a game and
you're thinking, oh, I'm gettingpaid for this.
Then it starts to get a littlebit more serious.
So then it's less moving around, really, isn't it?
But but certainly before themoney was involved, yeah, there
was probably a little bit moremovement.
(05:47):
I would say.
Sue Anstiss (05:48):
And were there any clubs, particularly that stand
out, that you really lovedplaying for?
As you look back, was there aculture or where you really felt
?
Carla ward (05:56):
Yeah, I think if we're going culture, I think I'd
say Sheffield FC, because themanager there was Helen Mitchell
, and she created an environment.
I would like to say that Ipride a lot of my managerial
style on what I learned there,just from the way that she
managed people, the way that shegot the best out of us.
I mean we shouldn't have beenwinning the way we were let's be
(06:18):
honest with the team we had butwe did, because we had an
unbelievable togetherness, wehad a willingness to look after
each other and we had a culturethat was a wholehearted culture
where we would die for eachother, you know.
So I think that that wasprobably the one that well, it
says it all.
When I stayed there for so long, that really honed in on who I
(06:42):
was.
Sue Anstiss (06:43):
And have you seen the game evolve, the women's
game evolve as you thought itmight do?
If you look back to when youstarted playing, or even when
you were playing at Bristol andat Bath Uni, is it where you
thought it might get to fromthere?
Carla ward (06:55):
Honestly, I always knew that it would get there,
but I didn't maybe think to thislevel.
Like I was sat watching,obviously I've not missed a game
of the Euros the geek I am Iwas sat watching last night the
Sweden game and then the Germanygame.
I sit there and I look at thecrowds and it's packed out.
Then I compare it to.
I went to the men's Euros onthe 21s as part of my pro
(07:18):
license.
Earlier on in the month therewas a couple of fouls in here
and there at games.
You sat there thinking thewomen's game is is really gone
somewhere here.
So it's uh, it's unbelievableto be part of.
Did I think that that would be?
That would happen?
You probably hoped, but I don'tthink you really believed.
Sue Anstiss (07:35):
Yeah, yeah, and as you look back now over your kind
of playing career, what arethose momentous highlights, what
are the real kind of momentsthat you reflect?
Carla ward (07:44):
on, I think, with sheffield fc getting promotion
into the wsl.
I think that was a moment.
You know, 94th minute, winneruh, against portsmouth most
intense, terrible game offootball, by the way, it really
was.
You know two teams that hadbeen excellent all season.
The pressure just mounted andit was just an awful game of
football.
But we managed to get over theline in the dying seconds to go
(08:05):
up after a lot of hard work,because nobody gave us a chance.
So I would think that would beone.
And then are we talking playing?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm moving on to talk about thecoaching.
The other one, I would probablysay for Lincoln, in the
semi-finally FA Cup againstArsenal, packed out central bank
(08:27):
and 5,000 people there, whichwas a lot of people at the time.
And I just remember saying tothe players in the dressing room
we've got to lay a glove onthese and make it really
difficult for them.
And I said I talked about bigtackles early, and then you've
got Kelly Smith, rachel Yankeerolling out and let me tell you
now you couldn't tackle them,which couldn't get anywhere near
them, and they were acompletely different level.
(08:49):
But the experience wasunbelievable.
And I tell you what I say allthe time, if Kelly Smith was now
in this day and age, what she'dbe worth would be monumental.
She really would be.
She was, she was a fascinatingplayer.
So I'd say that game justbecause it was David B Goliath
and it felt like that out there.
But what, what an opportunityand what was it?
Sue Anstiss (09:10):
I've spoken to Kelly on the game changes.
For one, I guess I didn'treally follow football as
closely as I do now when she wasplaying, really.
So what was it about her as aplayer?
Would you say that that wouldmake her, as you say, such an
exceptional player if she wasplaying?
Carla ward (09:24):
today.
Oh look, she's rolls royce.
She really is.
I used to absolutely lovewatching her and I I'm glad
she's still in the game to passthat experience back.
I really am, because I justdon't think this generation
understands how good she was.
You know, she'd glide around apitch, she'd make things happen.
Sometimes she wouldn't need toget out of second gear, but yeah
, she was somebody that I justabsolutely loved watching and
(09:46):
admired massively.
So, yeah, look, if she was herein this day and age, the money
she'd be worth would beoutrageous.
So yeah, it was a horrible gamebecause we got beat 5-1.
But look, we got on the scoresheet and we got to play against
them in their absolute prime.
But yeah, she's the best way todescribe her.
I thought she was a Rolls Royceplayer.
Sue Anstiss (10:08):
Absolutely.
Did you always know thatcoaching would be your next step
?
You said that whole desire tostay in football forever.
Or was there a moment that yourealised.
Carla ward (10:19):
I think there was a moment I don't think I'd ever
really thought about it and Ihad my.
I sadly had an injury whichrequired spinal surgery.
How old were you then?
Oh, good question, Late 20s.
So I started my badges throughthat and I was coaching Chef Uni
(10:40):
just part-time bit of money,bit of experience, loved the
game, chef uni just part-time.
Bit of money, bit of experience, loved the game.
And then I quickly, then in2015, did it again.
So then I had my second lot ofspinal surgery and at that point
I'm thinking I've not got longhere and I had doctors kind of
saying you shouldn't beconsidering playing.
(11:00):
I had one unbelievable physiothat was like we're going to get
you back.
But then when I came back, youknow when the youngsters start
going past you and you think I'mnot running this, I'm not going
to dictate in this game anymore, and that was a real moment of
what does next look like?
And I still probably didn'tknow.
And then I was just leavingSheffield FC and I was about to
(11:21):
go to Doncaster Bells and playfor Neil Redfern in one final
season and try and win WSL2 andthen retire, and I was on my way
back from training the veryfirst night I went training and
I was on my way back and I had avoicemail.
And the voicemail was fromKevin McCabe, who was the owner
at Sheffield United, and itbasically said look, we'd like
(11:42):
to talk to you.
And I thought, what's he wantto talk to me for?
Anyway, I went and sat down thenext day with him and some of
the board at Chef United andthey basically said look, we
want to be forward thinking withthe women, we want to go for
promotion, we need to put a bidtogether, we need somebody that
really has those expertise inhelping us deliver that.
We want that to be you.
(12:03):
And I'm sat there thinkingright and what's it look like in
return?
You know, I can help you with abid, I can give you all this
knowledge.
Well, what does it look likefor me?
And they said well, what do youwant to do?
And I said, oh, you know, Iwant to.
I want to coach, I want tocontinue my coaching journey.
(12:27):
So the idea was thatcollectively, we put together
the bid and then, if we make it,I go into the head coach role
and get a mentor whilst I do myA license.
So that was that off we went,got to work, big group of us
presented it at Wembley and thenoff we went there.
We managed to make it and Ithink at that point I thought
I'm about to be a head coach inthe WSL2.
Here I'm like a fish out ofwater.
I've only just finished kickinga ball around and I retired
(12:49):
overnight and I couldn't quitegrasp it.
I cried my eyes out some nightsand I was thinking what am I
doing here, like I've juststopped playing?
Sue Anstiss (12:54):
football.
So you play a coach.
You play a coach at the time oryou're entitled yeah, on paper.
Carla ward (13:00):
Yeah, I didn't kick a ball for them though, so so,
yeah, it really happened quitequickly.
But the moment I had that phonecall was the moment I thought
if I don't take this opportunity, somebody else will.
So it was worth the sleeplessnights.
I did get quite upset for aweek or two, thinking I'm not a
player, where's my career?
Just gone.
But it was the right thing todo and I had to take that
(13:23):
opportunity.
So so I did, and what you know.
Sue Anstiss (13:25):
Kind of hats off to him for seeing that in you.
Have you spoken to him aboutthat, I guess, since that time,
as to what it was that saw himto identify you and give you
that opportunity?
Carla ward (13:35):
yeah, he's um, he's a really good guy.
I keep in contact with him,even though he's left Chef
United.
He's actually opened.
We opened up a um coffee shopin scarborough.
He owns a scarborough group andhe opened up a coffee shop and
called it hartley's, as in mylittle girl.
So we sometimes try to get downthere and uh, yeah, although I
haven't seen him for a couple ofyears.
(13:55):
But yeah, he's um, I did used toask that.
But I think, look, I had a I've.
I had a business in Sheffield,a t-shirt printing company, for
many years and I supplied quitea lot of sports teams in and
around and I think he probablyknew I had the business acumen
as well as the sports side andhe probably saw me as well
(14:15):
connected in the game and Ithink that's maybe where he
wanted to tap into Little did herealize I was going to say,
look, I would like a piece ofthis.
But look, it ended up workingfor both.
And, um, yeah, it really helpedme get off the mark in my
coaching career because I wasthrown in at the deep end.
Sue Anstiss (14:31):
Put it that way and how long were you there for
before you moved on to otherroles?
Carla ward (14:36):
uh, what was I?
Four years at chef united, yeah, and I had Mick Wadsworth as my
mentor, who he is fascinating,obviously it's Bobby Robson's
number two.
For many, many years I was veryfortunate he was head of the
academy at Chef United.
I had a very good supportnetwork around me.
I think Chef United reallyallowed me to learn, grow, make
mistakes, and I made many ofthem, because when you go from a
(14:57):
player to a manager, anyonethat thinks it's easy, it has
got to be the hardest thing Iexperienced.
And because you're not a playeranymore, you're not the joker
in the dressing room.
You've got to quickly change.
So Chef United allowed me tomake mistakes, grow with them
and give me a real platform tostep into the world that I
(15:20):
wanted to be in.
Sue Anstiss (15:21):
And how tough was that.
When you think about that wholebeing a player, being part of a
team and I imagine some of thehardest parts are making those
tough calls of dropping players,you know, or letting players go
all together how have youpersonally dealt with kind of
that challenge of being amanager?
Carla ward (15:37):
It was really tough at the start because we're
talking about your friends, thatyou played with your friends,
that you know your teammates,and that was really tough and I
didn't handle it very wellactually, when I look back, I
made a lot of mistakes in thosefirst couple of years and being
too close and to turn too muchmotion, or yeah, yeah, I'd say
so.
And then you'd haveconversations where you're a
(15:58):
teammate being not a teammate.
You had to.
You have to really change thosedynamics quickly, which is
difficult when you've been inthe dressing room with them for
so long, because I recruited alot of people that I knew and I
played with that.
I made a mistake as well.
So I made an awful lot ofmistakes, but it taught me quite
quickly because, you know, Ihad to change, I had to adapt.
So, yeah, that was difficultbut, like I said, I think I'm a
(16:21):
big believer in the quicker youmake a mistake, the quicker you
get up and you learn.
So I made an awful lot ofmistakes and then I learned from
it and managed to move usforward.
Sue Anstiss (16:30):
And how would you describe your coaching
philosophy now as it's kind ofevolved in a few sentences?
Carla ward (16:36):
I'm very big on people because I believe if you
can get somebody smiling,enjoying themselves and playing
with a confidence, I alwaysthink you can get a couple of
percent more.
So I'm somebody that likes tolook after people.
I would like to think I'd beknown as somebody that would go
the extra mile for individuals,and people would probably sum me
up as a manager of I care anawful lot.
(16:57):
I treat them as 22, 23daughters, but then want to play
with a smile on their facebecause, like I said, I think if
I go back to the Sheffield FCdays, I think I played the best,
best football of my career,based on the fact I was really
happy, you know.
So I would probably say thatwould sum me up with the ball.
We like playing.
With the ball.
We like to be exciting.
Of course I know, um, you knowI've been criticizing the past
(17:20):
from a defensive side of thegame.
That maybe needs a little bitmore focus.
But I've always been someonethat likes to play with the ball
and sometimes that thatprobably hurts you the other way
.
But you can't say any of myteams haven't been exciting so
far.
Can you see that?
Sue Anstiss (17:34):
in other teams as you watch.
You say you're sat herewatching Euros at the moment.
Can you see when you feel teamsare happy and enjoying being on
a pitch versus those that maybearen't?
Yeah, don't ask me who doesn'tlook happy in a minute, but I
was not going to throw you underthe bus then and ask the
question.
Carla ward (17:50):
But I think you can, I think there's a sense of um,
and maybe that isn't alwaysnecessarily to do with the
manager, but that also could beto do with the dynamics in the
team, dynamics between groups ofplayers or staff.
You know, there's there'salways reasons why.
You know players are alwaysgonna dislike managers.
It's funny because, um, one ofthe players started singing
(18:12):
recently.
What's the song?
Players are only happy whenthey're playing.
Players love you when they'replaying.
Right, that's a fact.
They dislike you when they'renot.
That's just normal, it's a wayof life.
But yeah, you can always.
You can always gauge's justnormal, it's a way of life, but
yeah, you can always gauge ifthere's some unrest in a team.
Sue Anstiss (18:27):
And how do you help them become more resilient?
Because I know you have managedsome teams through some really
tough circumstances on and offthe pitch and whether it's
finances and where they arepromotion, relegation and so on
and still delivering thoseresults.
So what do you think is the keyto building that resilience and
, as you mentioned, that unitywith the team as well.
Carla ward (18:46):
Yeah, I do think it's a togetherness.
I think it's a doing.
Maybe things outside the box,um, I'd get trying to get
players to be vulnerable of eachother, which is a lot, lot
easier at club than it isinternational, because you have
them for very little time.
So I think at club it's a loteasier to to build that.
It's a lot easier to to getpeople together to do different
things.
You can do lots of things inthe classroom.
(19:08):
You can do lots of things onthe outdoors.
You can there aren't footballrelated, and I think that people
do laugh at me actuallyparticularly some of the coaches
that have recently worked withme because they say you always
find a way to make people smile,you always find a way to get
these things.
You always find a way to getthese things in.
But I think you have to becausethey're around each other.
(19:28):
Do you know?
Footballers see each other morethan they see their family.
So you have to try and createthat somehow, which, like I said
, is a lot easier at club thanit is country, because you see
them for a lot less.
But it's a belief, and creatingthat belief and confidence in
each other is key.
Sue Anstiss (19:44):
I think I'm going to move on to talk about that
transition away from the clubgame and what you're doing now.
But I just want to touch onlast summer and you had this
amazing experience going out toto Paris, the Paris Olympics.
Can you tell us about how thatopportunity came about and what
your involvement was there?
Carla ward (20:00):
Yeah.
So I was in Dubai on holidayand it was interesting because
on the last I think it wassecond to last day of the season
we played Chelsea and Emmerwoodsaid to me, would you want to
do a bit of scouting in thesummer?
And I was like, yeah, noproblem, didn't really know what
it entailed.
And then I was on holiday inDubai.
It was Emma Hayes we should sayyeah, sorry, yeah, and I'd had
a few cocktails, being honest,and she had messaged me saying
(20:23):
do you want to come to theOlympics and do some scouting?
I said yeah, sounds good, but Idon't think I was really
understanding.
Then she put me in contact withsomebody else and then I said,
oh, I've got a holiday and thenI could probably make it.
And she was like we needsomeone to join us in camp and I
thought, hold on, a minute,I've misread this situation
(20:44):
massively.
I've got an opportunity here togo to the Olympics and watch
the very best work.
What am I thinking?
So I cancelled that holiday.
First period I was with the teamand it was fascinating, and
(21:08):
then I went off to scout gamesand report on the opposition,
which was interesting actually,because I got to watch an awful
lot of Brazil and then, once thesemifinal was done, it was
straight back after thatsemifinal, straight back to meet
back up with them, report onBrazil, and then we had the
final and yeah, it was anunbelievable opportunity.
I mean, I say it all the timeEmma's been great for me.
(21:30):
She really has, and you knowshe's guided me.
She's helped me when I'vereally needed it.
Early on, when I had some toughtimes at Birmingham, she really
guided me and helped me throughthose difficult moments.
So to get to watch her and seewhy she is the very best, you
know, cemented everything Ibelieved.
So yeah, it was a fascinatingopportunity.
Sue Anstiss (21:50):
And what a great opportunity for you to go and
watch that.
You know put fully attention onplayers and seeing how they
play, but you're learning fromthat experience too, A hundred
percent.
I mean, Emma said to me I thinkit was night one or two
(22:25):
no-transcript and I mentionedthat you'd coached a number of
different clubs, differentcircumstances, but as you look
back on that I asked you earlierabout your kind of proudest
playing moment In a clubenvironment, managing a club
what are you most proud of yourachievements?
Carla ward (22:43):
there, I'd say two.
One keeping Birmingham up,because you know, no one give us
a chance.
I remember sitting in my backgarden that's in front of me
right now and I said to a goodfriend of mine you know, do I
take this?
And everybody said, don't takeit, don't take the job.
You know this could ruin you.
And I said, well, it's awin-win, right.
So if I keep them up, I make aname for myself.
(23:04):
If we get relegated, everyonethinks we're going to get
relegated.
So this is a win-win.
And I thought no one's givingme a chance here, like, let's go
for it.
So that's why I took it.
So to stay up was just anunbelievable feeling.
It really was.
And then the second one would befinishing fifth, and finishing
off with a two-nil win away atArsenal.
(23:25):
To finish fifth at Villa was anunbelievable achievement
because everybody thought wespent a lot of money and we
really didn't.
What we did was bring inplayers that weren't playing at
their clubs, give them thatconfidence again.
A lot of them had big pay drops, but they came into an
environment that we allowed themto be themselves, be confident,
(23:48):
play of a smile on their faces,and we ended up finishing fifth
, and, and that was huge, so Iwould say, those two moments for
sure.
Sue Anstiss (23:54):
And we're going to come on to talk about the work
that you're doing now.
But you've been really open andhonest about the challenge of
balancing a full-on, superintense career with personal
life, especially as a mother,you know, and it can be so
challenging and it's going toimpact on your mental well-being
and your personal lifegenerally.
So just to kind of take youback to, I guess, the decisions
(24:16):
that you made around that time,having had the success that
you've said you clearly hadsuccess with teams, but but why
did you kind of choose to stepaway from that?
Carla ward (24:25):
Yeah, that was a really, really tough decision.
I think it started aroundChristmas time and my little
girl sort of said mommy, are youoff tomorrow?
And I said no, baby, you are.
And she said when am I going tospend some time with you?
And that, as a mother, cut deepand that was really, really
difficult.
And I remember going to workthinking I tell everybody what I
(24:51):
do is for my little one,everything you do for your
children right, you want to giveyour children the best way in
life, best opportunities in life.
But here I am working 24, seven, never seeing her, and that was
really tough and I think itkept eating away at me and I
don't think I actually realizeduntil I left the impact that was
having tough and I think itkept eating away at me and I
don't think I actually realizeduntil I left the impact that was
having on me mentally.
And I went to the club probablya couple of months later I think
(25:14):
February, march and I said Iwant to have a conversation
about an early termination.
I really feel like I'm mentallyburning out.
I want to see my daughter notseeing her enough and, to be
honest, aston Villa is afootball club.
They're a wonderful footballclub.
They really are treated me sovery well and basically said
look, can we help you, can weget a nanny?
(25:36):
Can we, you know, help with?
They give me so many options.
Now the problem is I split fromHartley's other mother four
years ago now, after a long time.
So I think moving Hartley isnot possible, moving myself is
not possible.
So you know as much as AstonVilla were unbelievable, you
(25:58):
know, to try and help it justwasn't possible.
And I went back and forth themtrying to ask me to stay me,
almost pleading with their help.
I actually asked Unai in ameeting one day.
Unai came in and he was reallygood, actually helped me,
because he was in a similarsituation when he left Arsenal
just needed to breathe, neededto go away, needed to have some
time, and that probably helpedme with the board.
(26:22):
But they were, were great, theyreally were, they supported me,
um, and then they finally agreedI think it was around what was
it?
April, may time they finallyagreed and then, yeah, when that
final day passed, which wasrather than emotional, it was
like a weight had been liftedoff my shoulders.
I went the very next day onholiday with my daughter and I
(26:43):
thought I'm going on holidaywithout having to work 24 seven,
because I don't care whatanyone says, the off season is
not an off season for coachesand managers.
So I, um, I thought wow.
And then it was probably afterthe Olympics again, when I got
back from the Olympics I went onholiday with the little one and
at that point I thought I'vegot some time with you here, I
(27:06):
can go to swimming, I can go todance, I can go and be the mum
that I haven't been.
And, um, it was tough but itwas the right decision.
And at what point?
Sue Anstiss (27:17):
then did you find out, or they found you, in terms
of this national role with theIrish women?
Carla ward (27:24):
yeah, it was around Christmas time.
Funnily enough, there'd beenanother country that I'd spoken
to a couple of weeks before butjust didn't fit where I was in
life.
So I was out for dinner and mymum came up for the Christmas
markets and we were sat havingdinner and I just got a call
saying that we're going througha process if somebody would like
to speak to basically theinterviews in a couple of days
(27:46):
time, and I was thinking this isa quick turnaround.
So Christmas cancelled almost,and you have to put them
presentations together, etc.
So, yeah, from the first callon the 18th of December to
getting appointed on the 8th ofJanuary, it was three stages
quite intense.
Yeah, I know a joke, christmaswas cancelled but there was a
(28:09):
lot of work to be done in thatperiod.
So got down to the final few,which was in London, face to
face, and then, yeah, gotoffered the job that evening
after the final interview.
So I was delighted, to behonest, because I knew that it
was the next step in my career,but also what would be
worthwhile for my personal lifeand my family life.
Sue Anstiss (28:31):
And has it brought you that international
management, the better work-lifebalance that you'd anticipated?
Carla ward (28:37):
Yeah, like you know, sounds daft, but to be the mum
that goes and watches herswimming, watches her dance,
watches her basketball, watchesher football, you know I, I love
it and I love just sittingthere, just being a mom to her
and being able to do things, andit's great, you know, just
having a weekend with her, whichis unheard of.
I mean, this summer is thefirst summer, because last
summer I had the Olympics, butthis summer is the very first
(28:58):
summer since Harley's been bornthat I'm actually going to have
time with her.
So, yeah, it's been really,really good.
I've loved it.
And she comes to Dublinsometimes, which is good.
She gets treated like anabsolute princess when she goes
there.
So, yeah, it's absolutelyfitted my work-life balance for
sure.
Sue Anstiss (29:17):
And from the managerial experience in that
process.
You did just allude to itearlier of having less time with
players.
But how else is it different inmanaging that national team
versus managing a club?
Carla ward (29:28):
yeah, it's.
It is different in so many ways.
Like I like to buildrelationships and that is me in
a nutshell there just isn'tenough time.
They're in for nine, ten days.
They're out of there.
Then you've got to manageeverything in between.
From an organization point ofview, from a nation point of
view, I do miss that day-to-dayinteraction.
I think that's probably thetoughest part of it.
(29:50):
But I've teed up a lot ofcoaches for pre-season to to
come in and have a look and youknow you keep ticking over, but
that is difficult because you'renormally talking day-to-day.
There's also only a couple ofus that are full-time, so then
all then all my staff are allworking somewhere else.
So that's also tough because ifyou need to get things done,
you're almost on your own withthat.
(30:11):
But that's just part and parcel.
But it's certainly a differentdynamic.
Let me tell you.
Sue Anstiss (30:16):
And different pressures.
In that it's a national team,Does it feel different the
weight on your shoulders andNorma's not your nation also?
Carla ward (30:23):
Yeah, and you know, know, you've got two games and
then you haven't got time.
If you, if you need to putsomething right, you don't gotta
wait so long to put thingsright.
That's difficult but yeah, theway the nation, the pressures
from the media are verydifferent.
You know, I have exceptionalrelationships with the media,
particularly over here.
Sue Anstiss (30:40):
Good, good relationships you say
exceptional, yeah yeah, yeah, Iwould say so.
Carla ward (30:45):
yeah, I can't tell you.
You need the media.
Let's be really honest you needthe media, they need you.
You've got to work with them,but it's taken some time because
you're only seeing the Irishmedia in bits and pieces.
It's probably taken longer todevelop those relationships
because you don't have as muchinteraction with them.
But I'm starting to build onthat now and that's important
(31:08):
because, like I said, I thinkeverybody wants the same goal,
right, and that's to see thenation, the national team, win
and be successful.
But in order to do that, youneed everybody on board and what
are your kind of futureaspirations?
Sue Anstiss (31:20):
I mentioned introduction.
Obviously had a great kind ofappearance in 2023 at the fifth
women's world cup.
But what are your realisticexpectations for the team?
Carla ward (31:31):
yeah, look, I think, um, we want to go, we want to
get to the world cup.
We know that's going to bedifficult.
Only 11 european teams makethat.
So we know that's going to bedifficult.
But look, we've got a group ofplayers that hungry.
Look, they are so passionate,that irish national team.
They really are so passionateabout playing for their country,
desperate to play for theircountry.
So we, we've got every chancewith that.
(31:52):
You know, I've talked about itbefore.
You know, some people might notgive us a chance, but within
we'll all give each other achance and we'll give it
everything we've got to try andget there.
Beyond that, I think we have toqualify for the euros.
No ifs or buts would be mywords.
Nobody, nobody else's words.
But I think we absolutely haveto make the next Euros.
So they're sort of the shortand medium term, and then we'll
(32:14):
assess where we're at, becauseyou know what it's like.
I don't think managers last toolong in the game anymore, do
they.
Sue Anstiss (32:20):
If you don't have success.
And how much are you?
Because I was thinking,obviously you deal with this
team that comes to you, but it'sthe whole pathway, isn't it?
Where those players come from,the system, the support.
So how much are you in?
Are you just like presentedwith here, are your players, or
how much are you able to getinvolved with where they're
coming from and what's beingdone to generate and bring those
players forward?
Carla ward (33:04):
Yeah, I'm quite hands-on.
I like to get my eyes acrosseverything.
I think one of the things we'vebeen looking at quite deeply is
the League of Ireland, which isa sadly, it's a part-time
league, but there is some youngquality in there.
The national teams have gotsome quality.
It's just about how do wenurture them, how do we guide
them, how do we make sure thatthey've got everything they need
to step up and be a successfulfootballer.
We also have just recruited atalent ID team that are looking
at all the possibilities of whomight be eligible to play for
Ireland.
So there's lots of differentavenues.
I think it's really importantthat we continue to look within
Ireland, though, because theygive the opportunity to the
young girls in Ireland, becausethat's massive and we've got a
(33:25):
future proof for them.
But there's a lot of work thatneeds to be done, and we're on
with that at the moment.
We're discussing that, we'retalking about it, but it's a big
chunk of work.
That's not necessarily footballon the grass, but definitely a
piece of work that needs to bedone.
Sue Anstiss (33:42):
And we've talked about, I guess, that motherhood
piece and that balance of it.
It's almost I don't want topaint a negative picture, but
actually it's really challengingto do those two.
So do you feel football and Iuse football in a very generic
sense of women's football ismoving in the right direction in
the way it's approachingcoaches and players as well that
(34:02):
want to be mothers?
Carla ward (34:03):
Yeah, I think it's got a long way to go.
I think the US do it reallywell, you know.
They have environments thatallow kids to come in.
They have creches, nannies.
I think it's very differenthere.
You know, I would only evertake Hartley in on an
international break Never reallyin season because you know
there's just too much going on.
There isn't really everybody'sfull throttle.
Sue Anstiss (34:30):
And is that different?
Sorry just to interrupt youthere.
So in terms of the us, so whatyou've seen, and I guess we and
we used emma hayes as an exampleof, but that is a very
different environment is thatjust a historical?
Carla ward (34:34):
they've seen the value in creating that
supportive culture yeah, I thinkthey must see the value in it,
because I spoke to kellychambers a couple of months ago
and I was asking how life is outthere with the family and she
said, said best thing they'veever done.
You know, the kids are lookedafter, the kids come into the
training ground, there's a crest, they're looked after, there's
a play area.
They make it very, veryinclusive and I think, wow, like
that's something that could beintroduced here.
(34:56):
But I think we're a little bitfurther away than that.
But I do think that the gameisn't geared up yet to fully
supporting women with kids.
Now, I was really lucky atAston Villa and I keep saying
this they were unbelievable tome, they really were, and I
think that I was reallyfortunate.
But I know there's other clubsthat aren't as open as Aston
(35:19):
Villa.
So I think maybe it's a case ofclub by club, what they do to
help mothers and parents.
Sue Anstiss (35:26):
But it is difficult , it really is difficult and in
terms of the players, weobviously there's this kind of
consideration, sarah, and somuch around the physical support
, around motherhood and comingback to but from a coaching
perspective, is there anything?
Is it down to female coaches,which I don't believe it is but
in terms of the system itselfleading to change, I know you've
talked about co-coaching as akind of potential option.
(35:48):
Do you feel that is somethingthat should be?
Carla ward (35:50):
explored.
Yeah, I also think the way thegame's going, I think it's
starting to go manager whomanages the group, the
organisation picks a team andthen you've got the head coaches
that lead your philosophy, whatyou want.
I think the more it's goingthat way, the more I think that
you could potentially go downthat route.
(36:11):
If I went back into WSLfootball, which I'm sure I will
at some point, I think thatthat's what I would like go in
as a manager, have a head coach,and then I think that takes a
little bit of burden off becauseyou can't do it all, and for
years I probably thought I couldand is that a bit about the
investment too?
Sue Anstiss (36:29):
isn't it than having a club having that
funding, but it doesn't do.
They need to be full-time.
I feel, when I've researchedyou and looked at the work that
you do, god, it's more than youknow.
It's so many hours in the dayand constantly being on call um.
Is it possible to divide thatbetween two people?
Carla ward (36:44):
Yeah, you would still work an awful lot of hours
.
There's no way that youwouldn't work the same amount of
hours, but what it would do isrelease some pressure to allow
you to do the management side ofthe job better, more strategic,
probably a little bit morerefined.
I think that would allow then acoach to concentrate on the
grass and then the manager toconcentrate off the grass, and I
(37:07):
think that could be reallypowerful.
And even just taking a littlebit of workload away is huge now
in the game it really is, andin terms of being that top level
coach manager?
Sue Anstiss (37:17):
how do you keep learning and evolving with
modern coaching technologies?
Where are you learning?
Carla ward (37:23):
Yeah, do you know what?
It's something I've talkedabout recently actually, because
, as in not publicly, but Ithink that in international
football there's that periodbetween and you really need to
continue your brain moving rightand you can't go stale.
So I'm used to talking footballevery day, but then when you
take that away, it becomesdifficult.
(37:44):
So I, on my pro license, gotlots of me being me tried to tap
into all the guys kind of comeinto environment.
Um, you know, I'm going intoquite a few environments this
summer and I'm going to continueto do that.
So have a look how people work,how people, you know, with
their processes and yeah, so Ithink that's going to be me this
(38:04):
summer and beyond.
Really I'm going to be thatannoying person tapping between
clubs, so a warning to peopleshe's come in.
Sue Anstiss (38:12):
We obviously desperately need more female
coaches across sport, includingfootball.
Do you think there's enoughbeing done to encourage players
to consider transitioning tocoaching?
Would you encourage yourplayers to think about that 100%
.
Carla ward (38:25):
I think more so with players, because I think
players live and breathe it.
I think there's top playersthat can add so much value to
the game, whether that'scoaching, whether that's
performance, whether that'sanalyst.
There's so much quality to goback in the game.
The only thing I would say isgoing from a player salary to a
coach salary and people won'trealize this is a massive drop
(38:48):
and, by the way, they're goingto have to do 10 times the
amount of work.
So that's where I rememberhaving a conversation she won't
mind me saying this, but Iremember having a conversation
with Jill Scott before she wentinto the jungle, because I was
going to bring her in as atechnical coach and I think the
agent thought I was joking.
When bring her in as a technicalcoach, and I think the agent
thought I was joking when I saidwhat the pay looked like.
(39:09):
And it's bonkers.
Then she goes in the jungle andthen the rest is history.
Right, Look at her now.
She's on every single TVchannel you put on.
But yeah, I think there's areality then of wow, they might
want to go down the media routewhere you get more money.
They might want to go down adifferent route.
So, as much as I think theyneed to go back in, there
probably needs to be a level of,there probably needs to be a
(39:31):
conversation on the increase oncoaches' wages.
Yeah, yeah, being really honest, because there's a lot, a lot,
a lot of work that goes in.
You know it's 24-7, it'snon-stop, but the average pay
for a coach we're not talking amanager or head coach, we're
talking a coach is very, verylow, should I say?
Sue Anstiss (39:53):
And very different to the men's game, in the same
way that, yeah, you're nodding.
Carla ward (39:57):
I'm nodding, yeah, because it's bonkers and we
definitely want to keep theseplayers in the game.
You know there's so muchknowledge out there and we need
more female coaches in the gamewith that type of knowledge, so
there needs to be somethingthat's met halfway here and
without putting you on the spotin terms of the numbers how many
(40:18):
female head coaches or managersare there in the WSL one at the
moment?
Sue Anstiss (40:23):
how you say what.
What is in and out, how many?
Yeah, in don't know roughly howmany clubs have women leading
those?
Carla ward (40:30):
roles.
What have we got?
So we've got Rhianne Rene,we've got West Ham, we've got
Arsenal.
We've got Leicester Natalia atVilla.
Am I missing someone?
I think that might be it at themoment.
Sue Anstiss (40:48):
And is that less than it's been in the past?
Are we moving in the rightdirection?
I'm thinking of comparing itwith the Premiership Women's
Rugby, where we don't have anyat the moment.
We had seven.
So what direction?
What's the direction of travel,do you feel in terms of women
in those roles?
Carla ward (41:01):
I think it's fluctuating.
I think it needs look in theChampionship this year.
Fascinating because there is alot of female coaches yeah, yeah
but the problem you've got nowis, I think wsl clubs go down
this data route with theeuropean leagues.
You can't compare europeanleagues to wsl.
The wsl, for me, is hands downthe best, the very best league.
So I think we make this mistakeof recruiting from abroad when
(41:25):
we have got so much quality inthis country.
There is a huge amount ofquality in terms of coaches,
head coaches in the championshipright now.
Wsl2 yeah sorry, wsl2 changes,doesn't it like the weather?
Um, so I can't wait to see someof them shine because, you know
, a lot of them deserve anopportunity in the WSL and I
(41:47):
think that we're in a goodposition in terms of bringing
some female coaches through.
Sue Anstiss (41:51):
They just need an opportunity, like I was given
the opportunity yeah, absolutely, and you've taken on roles on
mentorship and supportingupcoming coaches.
So what drives your passionthere?
And I guess you've alreadyhighlighted that, that
opportunity that you've had inthe past?
Carla ward (42:07):
yeah, just to just to almost give someone an
opportunity that I had, but it'sreally funny because I can
mentor someone.
But then in a conversation youcan take something from
everybody.
If you're open to learning, youcan learn off every single
person you meet.
I believe that and I'm likethat annoying sponge I want to
take something from everybody, Iwant to listen, I want to learn
(42:27):
and I think if you in thosementor roles, you can learn both
ways, so it's win-win.
But you can also give back andthat's really important because
I was really fortunate with Emma.
So, yeah, how do we thencontinue to pass that knowledge
down and through?
Sue Anstiss (42:42):
And I love how you've talked so openly about
the making mistakes and learningfrom those.
But if you were able to go backand give yourself some advice
for and maybe at that point thatyou're just transitioning from
player uh to coach across yourcoaching journey what is there
anything you would?
You would do differently or adifferent approach that you'd
have?
Carla ward (42:59):
yeah, at the time, I probably thought I knew more
than I did.
I think, um, at the time,probably lean on experienced
people, although I didn't havemany of those around me, but
maybe I could have tapped intoother people.
My advice would be you utilizepeople you know.
I'm very open to that now and Iwas very open to that probably
(43:20):
I'd say a year after, probablyI'd fallen on my face 10 times
and my nose started to hurt.
So, uh, yeah, I um tap intopeople very early in my journey.
That's what I would have done.
Sue Anstiss (43:32):
And just finally, and I guess you've painted a
positive picture of coaching andyet it has challenges and we've
talked about, you know, nevermind pay and the hours you know
required and so on.
But what would you say to womenthat might be thinking about
coaching as a role, as a careermoving forward?
What is it that you love aboutbeing a coach?
Why would you recommend that asa career moving forward?
What is?
Carla ward (43:52):
it that you love about being a coach?
Why would you recommend that asa career path?
Make it a difference.
You know you can develop people, you can develop players.
But I would say be authentic,because I think I've.
You know I've probablydeveloped.
Let's go back to the media.
I've probably developed arelationship with people,
particularly the media, frombeing myself.
Often you can be robotic,should I say.
Often some people clubs maybedon't want you to be yourself,
(44:13):
want you to be the way or speakin a way that isn't yourself.
You know, I was fortunate, likeI said, to be at a club that
allowed me to be myself and Ithink it's important that you're
.
You are true to who you arewhat a joy to talk to Carla.
Sue Anstiss (44:31):
I love her openness and honesty about all things.
If you'd like to hear from moretop coaches, previous guests on
the podcast have includedfootball coaches like Emma Hayes
C asey Stoney and Hope Powell,along with women coaching at the
very top of a whole range ofsports, including Judy Murray,
mel Marshall, jess jess thirlby,jenny meadows and charlotte
(44:52):
edwards.
In fact, if it's trailblazersin sport you're after, there are
over 200 episodes of the gamechangers that are all free to
listen to on all podcastplatforms or from our website at
www.
fearlesswomen.
co.
uk.
Guests include olympiansparalympians, world champions,
coaches, entrepreneurs,broadcasters, scientists,
(45:12):
journalists and CEOs All womenwho are changing the game in
sport.
As well as listening to thepodcast on the website, you can
also find out more about theWomen's Sport Collective, a free
, inclusive community for allwomen that work in sport.
We now have over 13,000 membersacross the world, so please do
(45:39):
come and join us.
The whole of my book Game On theUnstoppable Rise of Women's
Sport is also free to listen toon the podcast.
Every episode of Series 13 isme reading a chapter of the book
.
Thank you once again to SportEngland for backing the Game
Changers and the Women's SportCollective, to the National
Lottery and to Sam Walker atwhat Goes On Media, who does
such an excellent job as ourexecutive producer.
Thank you also to my brilliantcolleague at Fearless Women,K
(46:03):
ate Hannan.
You can find the Game Changerson all podcast platforms
platforms so please follow usnow and you won't miss out on
future episodes.
Do come and say hello on socialmedia, where you'll find me on
linkedin and instagram at sueanstiss.
The game changers fearlesswomen in sport.
Hello and welcome to The Game Changers.
I'm Sue Anstiss, and this isthe podcast where you'll hear
from trailblazing women in sportwho are knocking down barriers
and challenging the status quofor women and girls everywhere.
What can we learn from theirjourneys as we explore key
issues around equality in sportand beyond?
I'd like to start with a bigthank you to our partners, sport
(00:24):
England, who support the GameChangers podcast through a
national lottery award.
My guest today is Carla Ward,an English football manager
who's currently leading theRepublic of Ireland women's
national team, with an ambitionto qualify for the 2027 World
Cup.
Carla's extensive playing careeras a midfielder includes stints
(00:47):
at Leeds, bristol, doncasterand Sheffield, along with time
playing in Spain.
Her most successful spell cameat Sheffield FC, where she was
club captain, making over 200appearances and scoring over 100
goals.
Carla then moved into coachingand had a very significant
impact at women's teams atSheffield United, birmingham
(01:08):
City and Aston Villa, beforerecently taking this prestigious
role with the Republic ofIreland's national team.
So, Carla, your coaching andmanagerial journey are
fascinating, but I'd like tostart with your playing career,
if I can.
So where did it all start foryou?
Carla ward (01:29):
Grew up on a council estate with a lot of boys.
It's always the way, isn't it?
So, yeah, I started out in asmall estate in Torquay where
all the boys played and it wasprobably the only thing that
most people did, and I wasn'tone to hang around with the
girls when I was young, to behonest.
So off I went over to theschool playing fields and there
(01:50):
was a very large field in themiddle of the estate as well.
So it's jumpers for goalpostsand, yeah, it all started there.
Really used to just lovefootball and playing out with
the boys more than anything.
Sue Anstiss (01:58):
And at what point did you realize that you had
talent beyond kind of playing atthat level?
Carla ward (02:03):
Yeah, I don't know.
I think it's funny because whenI was at school, there was a
boys team.
There was never a girls team.
And I remember one day lookingat and I'd been training, of
course, but I remember lookingevery week the uh sign would go
up of who was in the team and Iwould find my name was on it,
and not only my name was on it,I had the captain's armband next
to me, so I was thinking, oh,I'm in the boys team here.
(02:24):
And then, from that moment on,I thought this is a possibility.
And then, uh, as I grew up, Ijust, um, naturally just had a
love for it, found, found myselfyou know when you find yourself
like good at something that youwere passionate about and I
just continued that.
And then, obviously, the girlsteam started coming along and
makes me sound really old,doesn't it?
(02:44):
But girls teams come along, andthen the women's teams come
along and and, um, yeah, I justkind of kept stepping up and
every time that sort of, evenwhen I was 14, then going into
the seniors earlier than Ishould have, and then all of a
sudden, you're thinking I can dosomething here.
So, yeah, I always loved it.
It was just a very, very strongpassion and I just continued to
(03:05):
play everywhere I went.
And who were?
Sue Anstiss (03:07):
your kind of co-op, who were the peers at that time
as you came through thoseyounger ages.
Carla ward (03:13):
So I played down.
Funnily enough, I played downin Uki and Torquay, both in
Devon and Cornwall, so therewasn't there wasn't too much
going on there.
But then when I went up toBristol and I was playing with
the likes of Siobhan Chamberlainand Katie Holtham and Shelley
Cox at the time, and then when Iwent to Leeds, it was a
star-studded team.
There was me, steph Alton andJade Moore.
In midfield there was EllenWhite and Sue Smith, up top
(03:36):
there was Lucy Ward playing.
That team there wasunbelievable, you know, there
was just some fascinatingplayers and there was just some
fascinating players.
And so, yeah, I've been reallylucky and blessed to have played
with some unbelievable talent,some real champions and winners.
So I've learned a lot along theway.
But yeah, I think deep down Iwas always in a position where I
(03:56):
wanted to stay in it my wholelife.
Sue Anstiss (04:05):
And I listed a range of clubs there, and you've
added Newquay and Torquay tothat as well too.
So was that common for women in, I guess, in that era almost to
move around to play in thatmany clubs to get those
opportunities?
Carla ward (04:11):
We were very yeah, I was very young growing up in,
you know, small towns likeTorquay and Newquay, and you
know there was.
It was quite funny actually,because whilst Newquay is a
million miles away fromeverywhere, we actually had a
team that did tremendously welland we actually got up as high
as the Southern Division, which,if you remember, it used to be
the Premier League, and then theNorth and the South, and we got
(04:32):
as high as the South.
Then we had a year where a lotof us went off to university and
that crumbled, bless him, andthen they plummeted back down.
But yeah, that was more growingup at a very, very early age.
So, um, yeah, just enjoyablereally.
But I think you have to, don'tyou, as a kid, just get get to
where you can play at the bestlevel, and then those other
(04:54):
teams I'm thinking of the onesthat you were kind of then
played in that semi-professionalera.
Sue Anstiss (04:58):
Was that a natural side for women to be moving
across to, to so many differentteams?
Carla ward (05:05):
um, yeah, I think at the time.
Yeah, because, look, there wasno money in it.
Let's be honest, I rememberwhen I um first went to Bristol
they were.
I went to Bath University andthe head of football there was
there the manager at BristolCity Women who were in the
Premier League at the time andhe said he wanted me to come and
play.
You know, he thought I couldmake the step up and I remember
(05:26):
thinking it's 50 pound a weeklike unbelievable and that
sounds crazy.
Right, but that's what it was.
And all of a sudden you'regetting 50 pound a game and
you're thinking, oh, I'm gettingpaid for this.
Then it starts to get a littlebit more serious.
So then it's less moving around, really, isn't it?
But but certainly before themoney was involved, yeah, there
was probably a little bit moremovement.
(05:47):
I would say.
Sue Anstiss (05:48):
And were there any clubs, particularly that stand
out, that you really lovedplaying for?
As you look back, was there aculture or where you really felt
?
Carla ward (05:56):
Yeah, I think if we're going culture, I think I'd
say Sheffield FC, because themanager there was Helen Mitchell
, and she created an environment.
I would like to say that Ipride a lot of my managerial
style on what I learned there,just from the way that she
managed people, the way that shegot the best out of us.
I mean we shouldn't have beenwinning the way we were let's be
(06:18):
honest with the team we had butwe did, because we had an
unbelievable togetherness, wehad a willingness to look after
each other and we had a culturethat was a wholehearted culture
where we would die for eachother, you know.
So I think that that wasprobably the one that well, it
says it all.
When I stayed there for so long, that really honed in on who I
(06:42):
was.
Sue Anstiss (06:43):
And have you seen the game evolve, the women's
game evolve as you thought itmight do?
If you look back to when youstarted playing, or even when
you were playing at Bristol andat Bath Uni, is it where you
thought it might get to fromthere?
Carla ward (06:55):
Honestly, I always knew that it would get there,
but I didn't maybe think to thislevel.
Like I was sat watching,obviously I've not missed a game
of the Euros the geek I am Iwas sat watching last night the
Sweden game and then the Germanygame.
I sit there and I look at thecrowds and it's packed out.
Then I compare it to.
I went to the men's Euros onthe 21s as part of my pro
(07:18):
license.
Earlier on in the month therewas a couple of fouls in here
and there at games.
You sat there thinking thewomen's game is is really gone
somewhere here.
So it's uh, it's unbelievableto be part of.
Did I think that that would be?
That would happen?
You probably hoped, but I don'tthink you really believed.
Sue Anstiss (07:35):
Yeah, yeah, and as you look back now over your kind
of playing career, what arethose momentous highlights, what
are the real kind of momentsthat you reflect?
Carla ward (07:44):
on, I think, with sheffield fc getting promotion
into the wsl.
I think that was a moment.
You know, 94th minute, winneruh, against portsmouth most
intense, terrible game offootball, by the way, it really
was.
You know two teams that hadbeen excellent all season.
The pressure just mounted andit was just an awful game of
football.
But we managed to get over theline in the dying seconds to go
(08:05):
up after a lot of hard work,because nobody gave us a chance.
So I would think that would beone.
And then are we talking playing?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm moving on to talk about thecoaching.
The other one, I would probablysay for Lincoln, in the
semi-finally FA Cup againstArsenal, packed out central bank
(08:27):
and 5,000 people there, whichwas a lot of people at the time.
And I just remember saying tothe players in the dressing room
we've got to lay a glove onthese and make it really
difficult for them.
And I said I talked about bigtackles early, and then you've
got Kelly Smith, rachel Yankeerolling out and let me tell you
now you couldn't tackle them,which couldn't get anywhere near
them, and they were acompletely different level.
(08:49):
But the experience wasunbelievable.
And I tell you what I say allthe time, if Kelly Smith was now
in this day and age, what she'dbe worth would be monumental.
She really would be.
She was, she was a fascinatingplayer.
So I'd say that game justbecause it was David B Goliath
and it felt like that out there.
But what, what an opportunityand what was it?
Sue Anstiss (09:10):
I've spoken to Kelly on the game changes.
For one, I guess I didn'treally follow football as
closely as I do now when she wasplaying, really.
So what was it about her as aplayer?
Would you say that that wouldmake her, as you say, such an
exceptional player if she wasplaying?
Carla ward (09:24):
today.
Oh look, she's rolls royce.
She really is.
I used to absolutely lovewatching her and I I'm glad
she's still in the game to passthat experience back.
I really am, because I justdon't think this generation
understands how good she was.
You know, she'd glide around apitch, she'd make things happen.
Sometimes she wouldn't need toget out of second gear, but yeah
, she was somebody that I justabsolutely loved watching and
(09:46):
admired massively.
So, yeah, look, if she was herein this day and age, the money
she'd be worth would beoutrageous.
So yeah, it was a horrible gamebecause we got beat 5-1.
But look, we got on the scoresheet and we got to play against
them in their absolute prime.
But yeah, she's the best way todescribe her.
I thought she was a Rolls Royceplayer.
Sue Anstiss (10:08):
Absolutely.
Did you always know thatcoaching would be your next step
?
You said that whole desire tostay in football forever.
Or was there a moment that yourealised.
Carla ward (10:19):
I think there was a moment I don't think I'd ever
really thought about it and Ihad my.
I sadly had an injury whichrequired spinal surgery.
How old were you then?
Oh, good question, Late 20s.
So I started my badges throughthat and I was coaching Chef Uni
(10:40):
just part-time bit of money,bit of experience, loved the
game, chef uni just part-time.
Bit of money, bit of experience, loved the game.
And then I quickly, then in2015, did it again.
So then I had my second lot ofspinal surgery and at that point
I'm thinking I've not got longhere and I had doctors kind of
saying you shouldn't beconsidering playing.
(11:00):
I had one unbelievable physiothat was like we're going to get
you back.
But then when I came back, youknow when the youngsters start
going past you and you think I'mnot running this, I'm not going
to dictate in this game anymore, and that was a real moment of
what does next look like?
And I still probably didn'tknow.
And then I was just leavingSheffield FC and I was about to
(11:21):
go to Doncaster Bells and playfor Neil Redfern in one final
season and try and win WSL2 andthen retire, and I was on my way
back from training the veryfirst night I went training and
I was on my way back and I had avoicemail.
And the voicemail was fromKevin McCabe, who was the owner
at Sheffield United, and itbasically said look, we'd like
(11:42):
to talk to you.
And I thought, what's he wantto talk to me for?
Anyway, I went and sat down thenext day with him and some of
the board at Chef United andthey basically said look, we
want to be forward thinking withthe women, we want to go for
promotion, we need to put a bidtogether, we need somebody that
really has those expertise inhelping us deliver that.
We want that to be you.
(12:03):
And I'm sat there thinkingright and what's it look like in
return?
You know, I can help you with abid, I can give you all this
knowledge.
Well, what does it look likefor me?
And they said well, what do youwant to do?
And I said, oh, you know, Iwant to.
I want to coach, I want tocontinue my coaching journey.
(12:27):
So the idea was thatcollectively, we put together
the bid and then, if we make it,I go into the head coach role
and get a mentor whilst I do myA license.
So that was that off we went,got to work, big group of us
presented it at Wembley and thenoff we went there.
We managed to make it and Ithink at that point I thought
I'm about to be a head coach inthe WSL2.
Here I'm like a fish out ofwater.
I've only just finished kickinga ball around and I retired
(12:49):
overnight and I couldn't quitegrasp it.
I cried my eyes out some nightsand I was thinking what am I
doing here, like I've juststopped playing?
Sue Anstiss (12:54):
football.
So you play a coach.
You play a coach at the time oryou're entitled yeah, on paper.
Carla ward (13:00):
Yeah, I didn't kick a ball for them though, so so,
yeah, it really happened quitequickly.
But the moment I had that phonecall was the moment I thought
if I don't take this opportunity, somebody else will.
So it was worth the sleeplessnights.
I did get quite upset for aweek or two, thinking I'm not a
player, where's my career?
Just gone.
But it was the right thing todo and I had to take that
(13:23):
opportunity.
So so I did, and what you know.
Sue Anstiss (13:25):
Kind of hats off to him for seeing that in you.
Have you spoken to him aboutthat, I guess, since that time,
as to what it was that saw himto identify you and give you
that opportunity?
Carla ward (13:35):
yeah, he's um, he's a really good guy.
I keep in contact with him,even though he's left Chef
United.
He's actually opened.
We opened up a um coffee shopin scarborough.
He owns a scarborough group andhe opened up a coffee shop and
called it hartley's, as in mylittle girl.
So we sometimes try to get downthere and uh, yeah, although I
haven't seen him for a couple ofyears.
(13:55):
But yeah, he's um, I did used toask that.
But I think, look, I had a I've.
I had a business in Sheffield,a t-shirt printing company, for
many years and I supplied quitea lot of sports teams in and
around and I think he probablyknew I had the business acumen
as well as the sports side andhe probably saw me as well
(14:15):
connected in the game and Ithink that's maybe where he
wanted to tap into Little did herealize I was going to say,
look, I would like a piece ofthis.
But look, it ended up workingfor both.
And, um, yeah, it really helpedme get off the mark in my
coaching career because I wasthrown in at the deep end.
Sue Anstiss (14:31):
Put it that way and how long were you there for
before you moved on to otherroles?
Carla ward (14:36):
uh, what was I?
Four years at chef united, yeah, and I had Mick Wadsworth as my
mentor, who he is fascinating,obviously it's Bobby Robson's
number two.
For many, many years I was veryfortunate he was head of the
academy at Chef United.
I had a very good supportnetwork around me.
I think Chef United reallyallowed me to learn, grow, make
mistakes, and I made many ofthem, because when you go from a
(14:57):
player to a manager, anyonethat thinks it's easy, it has
got to be the hardest thing Iexperienced.
And because you're not a playeranymore, you're not the joker
in the dressing room.
You've got to quickly change.
So Chef United allowed me tomake mistakes, grow with them
and give me a real platform tostep into the world that I
(15:20):
wanted to be in.
Sue Anstiss (15:21):
And how tough was that.
When you think about that wholebeing a player, being part of a
team and I imagine some of thehardest parts are making those
tough calls of dropping players,you know, or letting players go
all together how have youpersonally dealt with kind of
that challenge of being amanager?
Carla ward (15:37):
It was really tough at the start because we're
talking about your friends, thatyou played with your friends,
that you know your teammates,and that was really tough and I
didn't handle it very wellactually, when I look back, I
made a lot of mistakes in thosefirst couple of years and being
too close and to turn too muchmotion, or yeah, yeah, I'd say
so.
And then you'd haveconversations where you're a
(15:58):
teammate being not a teammate.
You had to.
You have to really change thosedynamics quickly, which is
difficult when you've been inthe dressing room with them for
so long, because I recruited alot of people that I knew and I
played with that.
I made a mistake as well.
So I made an awful lot ofmistakes, but it taught me quite
quickly because, you know, Ihad to change, I had to adapt.
So, yeah, that was difficultbut, like I said, I think I'm a
(16:21):
big believer in the quicker youmake a mistake, the quicker you
get up and you learn.
So I made an awful lot ofmistakes and then I learned from
it and managed to move usforward.
Sue Anstiss (16:30):
And how would you describe your coaching
philosophy now as it's kind ofevolved in a few sentences?
Carla ward (16:36):
I'm very big on people because I believe if you
can get somebody smiling,enjoying themselves and playing
with a confidence, I alwaysthink you can get a couple of
percent more.
So I'm somebody that likes tolook after people.
I would like to think I'd beknown as somebody that would go
the extra mile for individuals,and people would probably sum me
up as a manager of I care anawful lot.
(16:57):
I treat them as 22, 23daughters, but then want to play
with a smile on their facebecause, like I said, I think if
I go back to the Sheffield FCdays, I think I played the best,
best football of my career,based on the fact I was really
happy, you know.
So I would probably say thatwould sum me up with the ball.
We like playing.
With the ball.
We like to be exciting.
Of course I know, um, you knowI've been criticizing the past
(17:20):
from a defensive side of thegame.
That maybe needs a little bitmore focus.
But I've always been someonethat likes to play with the ball
and sometimes that thatprobably hurts you the other way
.
But you can't say any of myteams haven't been exciting so
far.
Can you see that?
Sue Anstiss (17:34):
in other teams as you watch.
You say you're sat herewatching Euros at the moment.
Can you see when you feel teamsare happy and enjoying being on
a pitch versus those that maybearen't?
Yeah, don't ask me who doesn'tlook happy in a minute, but I
was not going to throw you underthe bus then and ask the
question.
Carla ward (17:50):
But I think you can, I think there's a sense of um,
and maybe that isn't alwaysnecessarily to do with the
manager, but that also could beto do with the dynamics in the
team, dynamics between groups ofplayers or staff.
You know, there's there'salways reasons why.
You know players are alwaysgonna dislike managers.
It's funny because, um, one ofthe players started singing
(18:12):
recently.
What's the song?
Players are only happy whenthey're playing.
Players love you when they'replaying.
Right, that's a fact.
They dislike you when they'renot.
That's just normal, it's a wayof life.
But yeah, you can always.
You can always gauge's justnormal, it's a way of life, but
yeah, you can always gauge ifthere's some unrest in a team.
Sue Anstiss (18:27):
And how do you help them become more resilient?
Because I know you have managedsome teams through some really
tough circumstances on and offthe pitch and whether it's
finances and where they arepromotion, relegation and so on
and still delivering thoseresults.
So what do you think is the keyto building that resilience and
, as you mentioned, that unitywith the team as well.
Carla ward (18:46):
Yeah, I do think it's a togetherness.
I think it's a doing.
Maybe things outside the box,um, I'd get trying to get
players to be vulnerable of eachother, which is a lot, lot
easier at club than it isinternational, because you have
them for very little time.
So I think at club it's a loteasier to to build that.
It's a lot easier to to getpeople together to do different
things.
You can do lots of things inthe classroom.
(19:08):
You can do lots of things onthe outdoors.
You can there aren't footballrelated, and I think that people
do laugh at me actuallyparticularly some of the coaches
that have recently worked withme because they say you always
find a way to make people smile,you always find a way to get
these things.
You always find a way to getthese things in.
But I think you have to becausethey're around each other.
(19:28):
Do you know?
Footballers see each other morethan they see their family.
So you have to try and createthat somehow, which, like I said
, is a lot easier at club thanit is country, because you see
them for a lot less.
But it's a belief, and creatingthat belief and confidence in
each other is key.
Sue Anstiss (19:44):
I think I'm going to move on to talk about that
transition away from the clubgame and what you're doing now.
But I just want to touch onlast summer and you had this
amazing experience going out toto Paris, the Paris Olympics.
Can you tell us about how thatopportunity came about and what
your involvement was there?
Carla ward (20:00):
Yeah.
So I was in Dubai on holidayand it was interesting because
on the last I think it wassecond to last day of the season
we played Chelsea and Emmerwoodsaid to me, would you want to
do a bit of scouting in thesummer?
And I was like, yeah, noproblem, didn't really know what
it entailed.
And then I was on holiday inDubai.
It was Emma Hayes we should sayyeah, sorry, yeah, and I'd had
a few cocktails, being honest,and she had messaged me saying
(20:23):
do you want to come to theOlympics and do some scouting?
I said yeah, sounds good, but Idon't think I was really
understanding.
Then she put me in contact withsomebody else and then I said,
oh, I've got a holiday and thenI could probably make it.
And she was like we needsomeone to join us in camp and I
thought, hold on, a minute,I've misread this situation
(20:44):
massively.
I've got an opportunity here togo to the Olympics and watch
the very best work.
What am I thinking?
So I cancelled that holiday.
First period I was with the teamand it was fascinating, and
(21:08):
then I went off to scout gamesand report on the opposition,
which was interesting actually,because I got to watch an awful
lot of Brazil and then, once thesemifinal was done, it was
straight back after thatsemifinal, straight back to meet
back up with them, report onBrazil, and then we had the
final and yeah, it was anunbelievable opportunity.
I mean, I say it all the timeEmma's been great for me.
(21:30):
She really has, and you knowshe's guided me.
She's helped me when I'vereally needed it.
Early on, when I had some toughtimes at Birmingham, she really
guided me and helped me throughthose difficult moments.
So to get to watch her and seewhy she is the very best, you
know, cemented everything Ibelieved.
So yeah, it was a fascinatingopportunity.
Sue Anstiss (21:50):
And what a great opportunity for you to go and
watch that.
You know put fully attention onplayers and seeing how they
play, but you're learning fromthat experience too, A hundred
percent.
I mean, Emma said to me I thinkit was night one or two
(22:25):
no-transcript and I mentionedthat you'd coached a number of
different clubs, differentcircumstances, but as you look
back on that I asked you earlierabout your kind of proudest
playing moment In a clubenvironment, managing a club
what are you most proud of yourachievements?
Carla ward (22:43):
there, I'd say two.
One keeping Birmingham up,because you know, no one give us
a chance.
I remember sitting in my backgarden that's in front of me
right now and I said to a goodfriend of mine you know, do I
take this?
And everybody said, don't takeit, don't take the job.
You know this could ruin you.
And I said, well, it's awin-win, right.
So if I keep them up, I make aname for myself.
(23:04):
If we get relegated, everyonethinks we're going to get
relegated.
So this is a win-win.
And I thought no one's givingme a chance here, like, let's go
for it.
So that's why I took it.
So to stay up was just anunbelievable feeling.
It really was.
And then the second one would befinishing fifth, and finishing
off with a two-nil win away atArsenal.
(23:25):
To finish fifth at Villa was anunbelievable achievement
because everybody thought wespent a lot of money and we
really didn't.
What we did was bring inplayers that weren't playing at
their clubs, give them thatconfidence again.
A lot of them had big pay drops, but they came into an
environment that we allowed themto be themselves, be confident,
(23:48):
play of a smile on their faces,and we ended up finishing fifth
, and, and that was huge, so Iwould say, those two moments for
sure.
Sue Anstiss (23:54):
And we're going to come on to talk about the work
that you're doing now.
But you've been really open andhonest about the challenge of
balancing a full-on, superintense career with personal
life, especially as a mother,you know, and it can be so
challenging and it's going toimpact on your mental well-being
and your personal lifegenerally.
So just to kind of take youback to, I guess, the decisions
(24:16):
that you made around that time,having had the success that
you've said you clearly hadsuccess with teams, but but why
did you kind of choose to stepaway from that?
Carla ward (24:25):
Yeah, that was a really, really tough decision.
I think it started aroundChristmas time and my little
girl sort of said mommy, are youoff tomorrow?
And I said no, baby, you are.
And she said when am I going tospend some time with you?
And that, as a mother, cut deepand that was really, really
difficult.
And I remember going to workthinking I tell everybody what I
(24:51):
do is for my little one,everything you do for your
children right, you want to giveyour children the best way in
life, best opportunities in life.
But here I am working 24, seven, never seeing her, and that was
really tough and I think itkept eating away at me and I
don't think I actually realizeduntil I left the impact that was
having tough and I think itkept eating away at me and I
don't think I actually realizeduntil I left the impact that was
having on me mentally.
And I went to the club probablya couple of months later I think
(25:14):
February, march and I said Iwant to have a conversation
about an early termination.
I really feel like I'm mentallyburning out.
I want to see my daughter notseeing her enough and, to be
honest, aston Villa is afootball club.
They're a wonderful footballclub.
They really are treated me sovery well and basically said
look, can we help you, can weget a nanny?
(25:36):
Can we, you know, help with?
They give me so many options.
Now the problem is I split fromHartley's other mother four
years ago now, after a long time.
So I think moving Hartley isnot possible, moving myself is
not possible.
So you know as much as AstonVilla were unbelievable, you
(25:58):
know, to try and help it justwasn't possible.
And I went back and forth themtrying to ask me to stay me,
almost pleading with their help.
I actually asked Unai in ameeting one day.
Unai came in and he was reallygood, actually helped me,
because he was in a similarsituation when he left Arsenal
just needed to breathe, neededto go away, needed to have some
time, and that probably helpedme with the board.
(26:22):
But they were, were great, theyreally were, they supported me,
um, and then they finally agreedI think it was around what was
it?
April, may time they finallyagreed and then, yeah, when that
final day passed, which wasrather than emotional, it was
like a weight had been liftedoff my shoulders.
I went the very next day onholiday with my daughter and I
(26:43):
thought I'm going on holidaywithout having to work 24 seven,
because I don't care whatanyone says, the off season is
not an off season for coachesand managers.
So I, um, I thought wow.
And then it was probably afterthe Olympics again, when I got
back from the Olympics I went onholiday with the little one and
at that point I thought I'vegot some time with you here, I
(27:06):
can go to swimming, I can go todance, I can go and be the mum
that I haven't been.
And, um, it was tough but itwas the right decision.
And at what point?
Sue Anstiss (27:17):
then did you find out, or they found you, in terms
of this national role with theIrish women?
Carla ward (27:24):
yeah, it was around Christmas time.
Funnily enough, there'd beenanother country that I'd spoken
to a couple of weeks before butjust didn't fit where I was in
life.
So I was out for dinner and mymum came up for the Christmas
markets and we were sat havingdinner and I just got a call
saying that we're going througha process if somebody would like
to speak to basically theinterviews in a couple of days
(27:46):
time, and I was thinking this isa quick turnaround.
So Christmas cancelled almost,and you have to put them
presentations together, etc.
So, yeah, from the first callon the 18th of December to
getting appointed on the 8th ofJanuary, it was three stages
quite intense.
Yeah, I know a joke, christmaswas cancelled but there was a
(28:09):
lot of work to be done in thatperiod.
So got down to the final few,which was in London, face to
face, and then, yeah, gotoffered the job that evening
after the final interview.
So I was delighted, to behonest, because I knew that it
was the next step in my career,but also what would be
worthwhile for my personal lifeand my family life.
Sue Anstiss (28:31):
And has it brought you that international
management, the better work-lifebalance that you'd anticipated?
Carla ward (28:37):
Yeah, like you know, sounds daft, but to be the mum
that goes and watches herswimming, watches her dance,
watches her basketball, watchesher football, you know I, I love
it and I love just sittingthere, just being a mom to her
and being able to do things, andit's great, you know, just
having a weekend with her, whichis unheard of.
I mean, this summer is thefirst summer, because last
summer I had the Olympics, butthis summer is the very first
(28:58):
summer since Harley's been bornthat I'm actually going to have
time with her.
So, yeah, it's been really,really good.
I've loved it.
And she comes to Dublinsometimes, which is good.
She gets treated like anabsolute princess when she goes
there.
So, yeah, it's absolutelyfitted my work-life balance for
sure.
Sue Anstiss (29:17):
And from the managerial experience in that
process.
You did just allude to itearlier of having less time with
players.
But how else is it different inmanaging that national team
versus managing a club?
Carla ward (29:28):
yeah, it's.
It is different in so many ways.
Like I like to buildrelationships and that is me in
a nutshell there just isn'tenough time.
They're in for nine, ten days.
They're out of there.
Then you've got to manageeverything in between.
From an organization point ofview, from a nation point of
view, I do miss that day-to-dayinteraction.
I think that's probably thetoughest part of it.
(29:50):
But I've teed up a lot ofcoaches for pre-season to to
come in and have a look and youknow you keep ticking over, but
that is difficult because you'renormally talking day-to-day.
There's also only a couple ofus that are full-time, so then
all then all my staff are allworking somewhere else.
So that's also tough because ifyou need to get things done,
you're almost on your own withthat.
(30:11):
But that's just part and parcel.
But it's certainly a differentdynamic.
Let me tell you.
Sue Anstiss (30:16):
And different pressures.
In that it's a national team,Does it feel different the
weight on your shoulders andNorma's not your nation also?
Carla ward (30:23):
Yeah, and you know, know, you've got two games and
then you haven't got time.
If you, if you need to putsomething right, you don't gotta
wait so long to put thingsright.
That's difficult but yeah, theway the nation, the pressures
from the media are verydifferent.
You know, I have exceptionalrelationships with the media,
particularly over here.
Sue Anstiss (30:40):
Good, good relationships you say
exceptional, yeah yeah, yeah, Iwould say so.
Carla ward (30:45):
yeah, I can't tell you.
You need the media.
Let's be really honest you needthe media, they need you.
You've got to work with them,but it's taken some time because
you're only seeing the Irishmedia in bits and pieces.
It's probably taken longer todevelop those relationships
because you don't have as muchinteraction with them.
But I'm starting to build onthat now and that's important
(31:08):
because, like I said, I thinkeverybody wants the same goal,
right, and that's to see thenation, the national team, win
and be successful.
But in order to do that, youneed everybody on board and what
are your kind of futureaspirations?
Sue Anstiss (31:20):
I mentioned introduction.
Obviously had a great kind ofappearance in 2023 at the fifth
women's world cup.
But what are your realisticexpectations for the team?
Carla ward (31:31):
yeah, look, I think, um, we want to go, we want to
get to the world cup.
We know that's going to bedifficult.
Only 11 european teams makethat.
So we know that's going to bedifficult.
But look, we've got a group ofplayers that hungry.
Look, they are so passionate,that irish national team.
They really are so passionateabout playing for their country,
desperate to play for theircountry.
So we, we've got every chancewith that.
(31:52):
You know, I've talked about itbefore.
You know, some people might notgive us a chance, but within
we'll all give each other achance and we'll give it
everything we've got to try andget there.
Beyond that, I think we have toqualify for the euros.
No ifs or buts would be mywords.
Nobody, nobody else's words.
But I think we absolutely haveto make the next Euros.
So they're sort of the shortand medium term, and then we'll
(32:14):
assess where we're at, becauseyou know what it's like.
I don't think managers last toolong in the game anymore, do
they.
Sue Anstiss (32:20):
If you don't have success.
And how much are you?
Because I was thinking,obviously you deal with this
team that comes to you, but it'sthe whole pathway, isn't it?
Where those players come from,the system, the support.
So how much are you in?
Are you just like presentedwith here, are your players, or
how much are you able to getinvolved with where they're
coming from and what's beingdone to generate and bring those
players forward?
Carla ward (33:04):
Yeah, I'm quite hands-on.
I like to get my eyes acrosseverything.
I think one of the things we'vebeen looking at quite deeply is
the League of Ireland, which isa sadly, it's a part-time
league, but there is some youngquality in there.
The national teams have gotsome quality.
It's just about how do wenurture them, how do we guide
them, how do we make sure thatthey've got everything they need
to step up and be a successfulfootballer.
We also have just recruited atalent ID team that are looking
at all the possibilities of whomight be eligible to play for
Ireland.
So there's lots of differentavenues.
I think it's really importantthat we continue to look within
Ireland, though, because theygive the opportunity to the
young girls in Ireland, becausethat's massive and we've got a
(33:25):
future proof for them.
But there's a lot of work thatneeds to be done, and we're on
with that at the moment.
We're discussing that, we'retalking about it, but it's a big
chunk of work.
That's not necessarily footballon the grass, but definitely a
piece of work that needs to bedone.
Sue Anstiss (33:42):
And we've talked about, I guess, that motherhood
piece and that balance of it.
It's almost I don't want topaint a negative picture, but
actually it's really challengingto do those two.
So do you feel football and Iuse football in a very generic
sense of women's football ismoving in the right direction in
the way it's approachingcoaches and players as well that
(34:02):
want to be mothers?
Carla ward (34:03):
Yeah, I think it's got a long way to go.
I think the US do it reallywell, you know.
They have environments thatallow kids to come in.
They have creches, nannies.
I think it's very differenthere.
You know, I would only evertake Hartley in on an
international break Never reallyin season because you know
there's just too much going on.
There isn't really everybody'sfull throttle.
Sue Anstiss (34:30):
And is that different?
Sorry just to interrupt youthere.
So in terms of the us, so whatyou've seen, and I guess we and
we used emma hayes as an exampleof, but that is a very
different environment is thatjust a historical?
Carla ward (34:34):
they've seen the value in creating that
supportive culture yeah, I thinkthey must see the value in it,
because I spoke to kellychambers a couple of months ago
and I was asking how life is outthere with the family and she
said, said best thing they'veever done.
You know, the kids are lookedafter, the kids come into the
training ground, there's a crest, they're looked after, there's
a play area.
They make it very, veryinclusive and I think, wow, like
that's something that could beintroduced here.
(34:56):
But I think we're a little bitfurther away than that.
But I do think that the gameisn't geared up yet to fully
supporting women with kids.
Now, I was really lucky atAston Villa and I keep saying
this they were unbelievable tome, they really were, and I
think that I was reallyfortunate.
But I know there's other clubsthat aren't as open as Aston
(35:19):
Villa.
So I think maybe it's a case ofclub by club, what they do to
help mothers and parents.
Sue Anstiss (35:26):
But it is difficult , it really is difficult and in
terms of the players, weobviously there's this kind of
consideration, sarah, and somuch around the physical support
, around motherhood and comingback to but from a coaching
perspective, is there anything?
Is it down to female coaches,which I don't believe it is but
in terms of the system itselfleading to change, I know you've
talked about co-coaching as akind of potential option.
(35:48):
Do you feel that is somethingthat should be?
Carla ward (35:50):
explored.
Yeah, I also think the way thegame's going, I think it's
starting to go manager whomanages the group, the
organisation picks a team andthen you've got the head coaches
that lead your philosophy, whatyou want.
I think the more it's goingthat way, the more I think that
you could potentially go downthat route.
(36:11):
If I went back into WSLfootball, which I'm sure I will
at some point, I think thatthat's what I would like go in
as a manager, have a head coach,and then I think that takes a
little bit of burden off becauseyou can't do it all, and for
years I probably thought I couldand is that a bit about the
investment too?
Sue Anstiss (36:29):
isn't it than having a club having that
funding, but it doesn't do.
They need to be full-time.
I feel, when I've researchedyou and looked at the work that
you do, god, it's more than youknow.
It's so many hours in the dayand constantly being on call um.
Is it possible to divide thatbetween two people?
Carla ward (36:44):
Yeah, you would still work an awful lot of hours
.
There's no way that youwouldn't work the same amount of
hours, but what it would do isrelease some pressure to allow
you to do the management side ofthe job better, more strategic,
probably a little bit morerefined.
I think that would allow then acoach to concentrate on the
grass and then the manager toconcentrate off the grass, and I
(37:07):
think that could be reallypowerful.
And even just taking a littlebit of workload away is huge now
in the game it really is, andin terms of being that top level
coach manager?
Sue Anstiss (37:17):
how do you keep learning and evolving with
modern coaching technologies?
Where are you learning?
Carla ward (37:23):
Yeah, do you know what?
It's something I've talkedabout recently actually, because
, as in not publicly, but Ithink that in international
football there's that periodbetween and you really need to
continue your brain moving rightand you can't go stale.
So I'm used to talking footballevery day, but then when you
take that away, it becomesdifficult.
(37:44):
So I, on my pro license, gotlots of me being me tried to tap
into all the guys kind of comeinto environment.
Um, you know, I'm going intoquite a few environments this
summer and I'm going to continueto do that.
So have a look how people work,how people, you know, with
their processes and yeah, so Ithink that's going to be me this
(38:04):
summer and beyond.
Really I'm going to be thatannoying person tapping between
clubs, so a warning to peopleshe's come in.
Sue Anstiss (38:12):
We obviously desperately need more female
coaches across sport, includingfootball.
Do you think there's enoughbeing done to encourage players
to consider transitioning tocoaching?
Would you encourage yourplayers to think about that 100%
.
Carla ward (38:25):
I think more so with players, because I think
players live and breathe it.
I think there's top playersthat can add so much value to
the game, whether that'scoaching, whether that's
performance, whether that'sanalyst.
There's so much quality to goback in the game.
The only thing I would say isgoing from a player salary to a
coach salary and people won'trealize this is a massive drop
(38:48):
and, by the way, they're goingto have to do 10 times the
amount of work.
So that's where I rememberhaving a conversation she won't
mind me saying this, but Iremember having a conversation
with Jill Scott before she wentinto the jungle, because I was
going to bring her in as atechnical coach and I think the
agent thought I was joking.
When bring her in as a technicalcoach, and I think the agent
thought I was joking when I saidwhat the pay looked like.
(39:09):
And it's bonkers.
Then she goes in the jungle andthen the rest is history.
Right, Look at her now.
She's on every single TVchannel you put on.
But yeah, I think there's areality then of wow, they might
want to go down the media routewhere you get more money.
They might want to go down adifferent route.
So, as much as I think theyneed to go back in, there
probably needs to be a level of,there probably needs to be a
(39:31):
conversation on the increase oncoaches' wages.
Yeah, yeah, being really honest, because there's a lot, a lot,
a lot of work that goes in.
You know it's 24-7, it'snon-stop, but the average pay
for a coach we're not talking amanager or head coach, we're
talking a coach is very, verylow, should I say?
Sue Anstiss (39:53):
And very different to the men's game, in the same
way that, yeah, you're nodding.
Carla ward (39:57):
I'm nodding, yeah, because it's bonkers and we
definitely want to keep theseplayers in the game.
You know there's so muchknowledge out there and we need
more female coaches in the gamewith that type of knowledge, so
there needs to be somethingthat's met halfway here and
without putting you on the spotin terms of the numbers how many
(40:18):
female head coaches or managersare there in the WSL one at the
moment?
Sue Anstiss (40:23):
how you say what.
What is in and out, how many?
Yeah, in don't know roughly howmany clubs have women leading
those?
Carla ward (40:30):
roles.
What have we got?
So we've got Rhianne Rene,we've got West Ham, we've got
Arsenal.
We've got Leicester Natalia atVilla.
Am I missing someone?
I think that might be it at themoment.
Sue Anstiss (40:48):
And is that less than it's been in the past?
Are we moving in the rightdirection?
I'm thinking of comparing itwith the Premiership Women's
Rugby, where we don't have anyat the moment.
We had seven.
So what direction?
What's the direction of travel,do you feel in terms of women
in those roles?
Carla ward (41:01):
I think it's fluctuating.
I think it needs look in theChampionship this year.
Fascinating because there is alot of female coaches yeah, yeah
but the problem you've got nowis, I think wsl clubs go down
this data route with theeuropean leagues.
You can't compare europeanleagues to wsl.
The wsl, for me, is hands downthe best, the very best league.
So I think we make this mistakeof recruiting from abroad when
(41:25):
we have got so much quality inthis country.
There is a huge amount ofquality in terms of coaches,
head coaches in the championshipright now.
Wsl2 yeah sorry, wsl2 changes,doesn't it like the weather?
Um, so I can't wait to see someof them shine because, you know
, a lot of them deserve anopportunity in the WSL and I
(41:47):
think that we're in a goodposition in terms of bringing
some female coaches through.
Sue Anstiss (41:51):
They just need an opportunity, like I was given
the opportunity yeah, absolutely, and you've taken on roles on
mentorship and supportingupcoming coaches.
So what drives your passionthere?
And I guess you've alreadyhighlighted that, that
opportunity that you've had inthe past?
Carla ward (42:07):
yeah, just to just to almost give someone an
opportunity that I had, but it'sreally funny because I can
mentor someone.
But then in a conversation youcan take something from
everybody.
If you're open to learning, youcan learn off every single
person you meet.
I believe that and I'm likethat annoying sponge I want to
take something from everybody, Iwant to listen, I want to learn
(42:27):
and I think if you in thosementor roles, you can learn both
ways, so it's win-win.
But you can also give back andthat's really important because
I was really fortunate with Emma.
So, yeah, how do we thencontinue to pass that knowledge
down and through?
Sue Anstiss (42:42):
And I love how you've talked so openly about
the making mistakes and learningfrom those.
But if you were able to go backand give yourself some advice
for and maybe at that point thatyou're just transitioning from
player uh to coach across yourcoaching journey what is there
anything you would?
You would do differently or adifferent approach that you'd
have?
Carla ward (42:59):
yeah, at the time, I probably thought I knew more
than I did.
I think, um, at the time,probably lean on experienced
people, although I didn't havemany of those around me, but
maybe I could have tapped intoother people.
My advice would be you utilizepeople you know.
I'm very open to that now and Iwas very open to that probably
(43:20):
I'd say a year after, probablyI'd fallen on my face 10 times
and my nose started to hurt.
So, uh, yeah, I um tap intopeople very early in my journey.
That's what I would have done.
Sue Anstiss (43:32):
And just finally, and I guess you've painted a
positive picture of coaching andyet it has challenges and we've
talked about, you know, nevermind pay and the hours you know
required and so on.
But what would you say to womenthat might be thinking about
coaching as a role, as a careermoving forward?
What is it that you love aboutbeing a coach?
Why would you recommend that asa career moving forward?
What is?
Carla ward (43:52):
it that you love about being a coach?
Why would you recommend that asa career path?
Make it a difference.
You know you can develop people, you can develop players.
But I would say be authentic,because I think I've.
You know I've probablydeveloped.
Let's go back to the media.
I've probably developed arelationship with people,
particularly the media, frombeing myself.
Often you can be robotic,should I say.
Often some people clubs maybedon't want you to be yourself,
(44:13):
want you to be the way or speakin a way that isn't yourself.
You know, I was fortunate, likeI said, to be at a club that
allowed me to be myself and Ithink it's important that you're
.
You are true to who you arewhat a joy to talk to Carla.
Sue Anstiss (44:31):
I love her openness and honesty about all things.
If you'd like to hear from moretop coaches, previous guests on
the podcast have includedfootball coaches like Emma Hayes
C asey Stoney and Hope Powell,along with women coaching at the
very top of a whole range ofsports, including Judy Murray,
mel Marshall, jess jess thirlby,jenny meadows and charlotte
(44:52):
edwards.
In fact, if it's trailblazersin sport you're after, there are
over 200 episodes of the gamechangers that are all free to
listen to on all podcastplatforms or from our website at
www.
fearlesswomen.
co.
uk.
Guests include olympiansparalympians, world champions,
coaches, entrepreneurs,broadcasters, scientists,
(45:12):
journalists and CEOs All womenwho are changing the game in
sport.
As well as listening to thepodcast on the website, you can
also find out more about theWomen's Sport Collective, a free
, inclusive community for allwomen that work in sport.
We now have over 13,000 membersacross the world, so please do
(45:39):
come and join us.
The whole of my book Game On theUnstoppable Rise of Women's
Sport is also free to listen toon the podcast.
Every episode of Series 13 isme reading a chapter of the book
.
Thank you once again to SportEngland for backing the Game
Changers and the Women's SportCollective, to the National
Lottery and to Sam Walker atwhat Goes On Media, who does
such an excellent job as ourexecutive producer.
Thank you also to my brilliantcolleague at Fearless Women,K
(46:03):
ate Hannan.
You can find the Game Changerson all podcast platforms
platforms so please follow usnow and you won't miss out on
future episodes.
Do come and say hello on socialmedia, where you'll find me on
linkedin and instagram at sueanstiss.
The game changers fearlesswomen in sport.
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