Danielle Sellwood: Producing films that change our world

Our guest today is Danielle Sellwood, a former sportswear designer, trend forecaster and women’s sport publisher who now shares diverse stories of sport and adventure through powerful documentaries made by her company Find It Film.

In 2008 Danielle co-founded Sportsister, a trail-blazing sports website and magazine for women, and from 2012 she directed visual campaigns at Women's Sport Trust (WST) helping create lasting change in the representation of female athletes.

Danielle’s passion for filmmaking was born from frustration over the lack of diverse representation in sports and adventure films, so she picked up a camera and set to work to redress the balance. 

Alongside this work today, Danielle is an expert in making content and film accessible via open captions and audio description. 

Danielle is also a former GB canoeist who in recent years has turned her hand to triathlon, swimming, cycling and surfing.

Danielle shares background to the inception of Sports Sister with Louise Hudson back in what they thought was to be ‘The Golden Age’ for women’s sport, the evolution of women's sportswear and the ongoing challenges faced in promoting women's sport. 

It’s fascinating to hear of Danielle’s journey as a self-taught documentary maker to where she is today, creating powerful documentaries that highlight the underrepresented voices of women, the disabled community and older people.

Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.

Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers

Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media

A Fearless Women production

Episode Transcript

Sue Anstiss (00:02):
Hello and welcome to The Game Changers.
I'm Sue Anstiss, and this isthe podcast where you'll hear
from trailblazing women in sportwho are knocking down barriers
and challenging the status quofor women and girls everywhere.
What can we learn from theirjourneys as we explore key
issues around equality in sportand beyond?
I'd like to start with a bigthank you to our partners, Sport

(00:24):
England, who support The GameChangers through a National
Lottery Award.
I'm excited to say that in this, the 18th series of The Game
Changers, I'll be talking tofounders and entrepreneurs, the
women who have set uporganisations that help change
the landscape for all women andgirls in sport.

(00:46):
My guest today is DanielleSellwood, a former sportswear
designer, trend forecaster andwomen's sport publisher, who now
shares diverse stories of sportand adventure through powerful
documentaries made by hercompany, find it Film.
In 2008, danielle co-foundedSportsister, a trailblazing

(01:07):
sports website and magazine forwomen, and from 2012, she
directed visual campaigns at theWomen's Sport Trust, helping
create lasting change in therepresentation of female
athletes.
Danielle is now a self-taughtdocumentary maker, primarily
creating content featuring women, the disabled community and

(01:30):
older people.
Danielle's passion forfilmmaking was born from
frustration over the lack ofdiverse representation in sport
and adventure films.
So she picked up a camera andset to work to redress the
balance camera and set to workto redress the balance.
Alongside this work, danielle'san expert in making content and
film accessible via opencaptions and audio description.

(01:50):
Danielle's also a former GBcanoeist who in recent years has
turned her hand to triathlon,swimming, cycling and surfing.
Danielle, I think of all theguests I've got in this fabulous
new series, you're the one I'veknown the longest, probably
from when you were first runningSports Sister back in 2008.

(02:11):
So I wonder if we can startthere and maybe tell us about
Sports Sister and what it wasand how it started.

Danielle Sellwood (02:19):
Yeah, I mean gosh, 2008.
I mean it's crazy to think solong has gone since then.
And we thought I mean at'scrazy to think so long has gone
since then.
And we thought I mean at thattime I was working in trend
forecasting, so sort of the tailend of my sort of design career
, I guess.
When the internet came out,obviously we could all access
stuff from all around the world.
So trend forecasting for thefashion industry just became

(02:41):
like such an instant thing andwe would travel around the world
.
We'd take photographs of whatwas going.
So I'd go to, like you know,the X Games or surf beaches and
photograph what everyone waswearing and then we'd upload it
to the internet and everybodyquite quickly could see what was
happening in different places.
So it was an amazing thing.
So I learned all of my sort ofkind of craft of using the

(03:03):
internet as a tool tocommunicate there.
But of course the trouble withtrend forecasting is that you
spend all your time looking forthe gaps in the market and
seeing what's coming up and someof them don't get filled.
So I worked specifically insport and women's sport was
still just so light years behindmen's sport at that time there

(03:25):
really was nothing.
There were no real magazines,they were all fitness magazines,
which was not really aboutwomen's sport.
So it was all about body,beautiful and, you know,
slimming, all that kind of thing, and and the only information
that you kind of get got aboutwomen's sport was just snippets
in the newspaper, which, asyou'll know, was very few and
far between, and a certain typeof reporting as well.

(03:48):
So women were always, you know,like in context of I don't know
whether they were a mother orwhat their job was, or they had
a wife of somebody, or were theygood looking or blonde or
whatever you know it was.
You know that was.
There was always another sideto it, aside from their sport.
So myself and Louise Hudsondecided that we would fill this

(04:09):
gap for a media outlet forwomen's sport In our kind of
naive way.
We thought, oh, we'll rebrandsport for women.
So that was what we set out todo and, gosh, it was hard, it
was amazing.
But it was so hard becauseeverybody knew this was needed

(04:32):
but because it was, in everyoneelse's eyes, really early, in my
eyes, really really late inhappening.
It was really really difficultto get support Financially, it
was incredibly hard, but we setup a website, we even did a
print magazine and we basicallystarted reporting on all the
women's sports stories.

Sue Anstiss (04:52):
That just weren't getting any coverage.
And I remember at the time so Iwas running a sports PR agency
but I mean Sports Pistol was theplace to go to to get coverage.
But I remember havingconversations with you, probably
a bit later, and it was amazingthat all these people wanted
all this coverage but the brandsand others weren't, you know,
as enthusiastic to fund thatspace perhaps in the way that
they are now.
So why do you think were youjust too early?

(05:14):
I mean that it does almost feellike you were just way ahead of
your time in terms of theproduct.

Danielle Sellwood (05:19):
Yeah, I think I mean we were definitely early
in terms of a commercialproduct.
You know, like everybody knewthere was a need.
I mean we know that because, asyou say, all the PRs, everybody
, all the sports, as soon aspeople knew that we existed, we
were inundated with peoplewanting us to report on their
sport or their athlete or theirproduct, but the brands would

(05:41):
not support it in any sort ofsustainable or significant way
because we just didn't have thenumbers at that point.
It's the eternal problem ofbeing a startup.
You know it's chicken and egg.
They won't support until you'rebig enough.
But how do you get big enoughwithout the support?
Would get huge brands send usan advert for our print magazine

(06:03):
, a full page advert, and sayyou know, well, this will look
really good if you put this in,because all the other brands
will think that you're gettinglots of money and then they'll
support you.
But you know like and we triedit a couple of times we put ads
in for free.
But it just, you know, it wasalways a struggle.
It was always a struggle.
Actually, the one thing that,um, we did get some stability at

(06:25):
one point because when thewomen's super league started,
sally horrocks really kindlykind of supported us by getting
us to do the match day program,so that kind of gave us a bit of
an extension on what we weredoing.
So we did, like the first twoor three years of the match day
programs, which was amazing butalso really challenging because,
like a lot of the clubs didn'teven have a photograph of

(06:47):
everybody, all the women thatwere playing.
So you know it was, it was anextraordinary time of this kind
of huge growth in women's sportand this kind of real
understanding that women's sportneeded coverage and needed
support.
But it was, yeah, there werestill so many balls in the air
and it's felt like that forprobably 10 years.

(07:07):
And I must just say we did thisone cover I think it was with
Beth Tweddle, because we used todo our own.
We had an amazing photographer,sean Mallion, who for paltry
fees to come and do a frontcover, a beautiful front cover
photo for us, and that wasreally important.
The visuals were reallyimportant because we wanted to

(07:29):
show these women as athletes inreally beautiful photography.
So we had this amazing.
I think it was I'm pretty sureit was Best Weddle.
Anyway, the title was somethinglike the Golden Age of Women's
Sport, and that was like in like2010.
And here we are in 2024.
And I don't know if we're quitethere yet, but maybe we're
getting there now, sort of 14years later.

Sue Anstiss (07:49):
I love that about Sally Horrocks.
That's so nice to hear as well,isn't it?
Look at all that she's doingnow.
It's that you know womensupporting women and all the
rest.
So what happened to it in theend?
And I guess, how did?
How did you feel at the end ofthat?
Because I guess I rememberbeing not part of that journey
but witnessing from afar andseeing the print edition and
50,000 run and hoping it wouldgrow, and then and obviously

(08:10):
then it didn't, and kind of howdid you step back from that?
How was that for you?

Danielle Sellwood (08:15):
yeah, I mean trying to think in about 2013.
So it was just after London2012 and we've kind of reached
the end of our own we you knowability to sort of fund it.
We had had a couple of peoplecome in to help Gary Cole was
one.
You know people that reallysupported it.
But it needed proper, you know,serious investment.

(08:36):
And Tri North actually came onboard who were running cricket
magazines and various other bitsand pieces for sports
associations.
So they took it on and employedme.
Louise at that point left, wenton to Pastors New and I carried
on for a couple of years withtheir support and again it was a

(08:58):
bit like sort of starting again.
It was like another level upwith some stability and some
support.
We had some conversations withSky Sports and various other
people that really wanted it tosucceed.
But you know, it was still areal struggle and eventually it
got to a point where I justneeded to move on.
And you know, after a while itjust becomes a bit soul

(09:22):
destroying really when you youknow you can only struggle on
for so long.
But we had some incrediblehighlights.
You know like we got Olympicaccreditation for 2012, which
was phenomenal.
You know.
I said we I imagine we'reprobably the first all female
focused magazine to get that.
I don't know.
But um, you know, certainlythere weren't any others there,
but it was hard.
And we always said afterwardsyou know, certainly there

(09:43):
weren't any others there, but itwas hard.
And we always said afterwardsyou know that if we'd have known
how hard it was going to be, wewouldn't have done it.
You know, financially it was amassive struggle for a very long
time.
But we're glad we didn't knowbecause we did some incredible
things.
We spoke to some amazing womenand hopefully we made a small
difference to a lot ofsportswomen's lives and small

(10:03):
start-up brands by giving them abit of coverage.

Sue Anstiss (10:06):
Yeah, absolutely, and others' attitudes with that
hold on the shoulders of othersthat came before us, but also
other women now in that spaceand doing more that saw and
witnessed and were a part ofthat too.
I'm going to take you back, ifI can, to your younger days.
Where did you grow up and howwas sport part of your life as a
young person?

Danielle Sellwood (10:25):
Oh yeah, so I grew up in Bath from the age of
six and I was always so like atschool I was.
I had like two skills, Isuppose that stood out, and that
was sport and art.
Yeah, I was always sporty.
My brother was very sporty andmy parents kind of my dad in
particular was just verysupportive of women's sport.
There was never any distinctionor that I shouldn't be doing
sport.
And my brother got intocanoeing at school.

(10:48):
There's a bit of a joke in ourfamily that it was the last
sport available and he was late,arriving at the day where you
chose what you wanted to do.
But for whatever reason, heended up doing canoeing and I
used to go along and he'd go toraces on a Sunday.
It was your classic, you know,sunday morning driving off
somewhere to do a race and I'dkind of tag along.

(11:09):
And I do have like one reallyreally clear moment where I was
stood on this bank of this canalon a cold winter's morning and
this young girl came past andvery uncharacteristically for me
, as I'm sure you'll agree, sue,I actually thought I could do
better than that.
I just like looked at her and Ithought, you know, come on,

(11:33):
speed up and I didn't know, itwas just something in me.
I just thought I'm sure I cango faster than that.
And you know, and I'm not aparticularly arrogant person,
but it was a very overwhelmingfeeling.
So I just kind of took upcanoeing then and just got
involved and I had been doinggymnastics and trampolining in
the days of kind of all inspiredby Olga Corbett and Nadia

(11:56):
Comaneci.
You know that was our big thingas we were children or young
girls growing up, so I'd done alot of those sorts of you know
more traditional female sports,I guess growing up.
So I'd done a lot of thosesorts of you know more
traditional female sports, Iguess.
And then I mean canoeing islike the most unglamorous sport
you could possibly imagine,especially back then.
You know it's cold, you getvery wet and there's no interest
in it whatsoever really fromthe media.

(12:16):
So, um, but like it didn'tmatter to me, I really enjoyed
it and I was quite good at it.
And I think you know, if you'regood at something and you have
a bit of success early on, youknow you become like junior
champion or whatever.
Then obviously you know youlike that feeling and you want
to get better and I've alwaysbeen someone that just likes to
improve and learn and constantlyprogress.

(12:37):
And yeah, so I ended uprepresenting Great Britain as a
junior and then as a senior andthen, a bit later on, I got into
very long distance races.
So there's one that starts inDevizes in the West Country and
goes all the way and finishes incentral London.
It's like 125 miles.
So I did that three times.
We set a couple of records thatstood for a long time and yeah,

(12:58):
it was.
You know, I think anyone that'sinvolved in a sport for a long
period of time from a youngishage, you just build such strong
bonds and friendships that juststay with you for life.
And yeah, it was a huge part ofmy life and I would also say
that, you know, it did give me asort of inner strength and an

(13:18):
inner confidence that I don'tknow whether I would have had
otherwise.
You know, I think you put upwith a lot of challenging
conditions.
You put up with losing, you putup with being worn out and
being able to do more than youthink you can and having routine
and all those things, and itwas hugely important and
influential on my life.

Sue Anstiss (13:36):
So you mentioned inner strength.
Bloody 125 miles, that'sextraordinary, isn't it?
So what I mean, what does thattake to do in a race like that
or a event of that kind?

Danielle Sellwood (13:46):
that seems enormous yeah, I know it is.
It is a bit um nuts and, to behonest, even like beforehand, I
didn't imagine how you could dothat, because the longest we did
any races at that point, youknow, very unusually, we might
do a three or two or three orfour hour race, and this is like
17, 18, 19, depending on whatthe flow is like.

(14:07):
I kind of got a little bit Isuppose a little bit duped into
it.
Our coach at the club, brianGreenaway, he was a veteran of
this race and he obviously sawsomething in me.
And there's a series of racesthat you do, a lot of people
that do this race would do,called the Waterside series and
they take place on the course,so, and there's four of them and

(14:27):
they get longer and longer andyou kind of do so.
We did those and then like, soI don't know, it felt like it
was only like two weeks beforethe long one.
He just said, well, should wedo the long one then and I was
like, okay, how do we go fromdoing five hours to doing 17
hours?
But, um, yeah, we did it andand again, like I still don't
really understand how that ispossible.

(14:48):
You know, the longest you'vecanoed for is five hours and
then you do 17 hours.
You know, obviously it's noteasy, but you go along.
I guess it's broken up and youhave a support crew and you go
through the night and you knowlike there's different stages to
it and magical moments going.
You know when it's dark or youget fed as you're going along
and I think it's just quiteexciting being part of something

(15:10):
like that.
It's almost like this littlesecret club of all these people
going down.
It's a double canoe, so ifyou're doing the through race
all the way in one hit, it's adouble canoe.
So you're not on your own.
But there are funny moments aswell.
So we got to Reading.
You're not, you're not on yourown, but, um, there are funny
moments as well, like so we gotto reading, so you go along the
canal to reading and then you goon the river from reading down
to central london and we're atreading doing our kit change.

(15:31):
So you're stood on this dampriverside.
Someone's just taking yourclothes off and putting new ones
on.
You know, as I said, it's notglamorous.
Um, and then we got back in theboat and they just said to me
keep talking to brian, keeptalking to Brian, he's falling
asleep.
I was thinking, how can youfall asleep in the middle of the
Thames?
You know, like, oh my God,that's really terrifying.

(15:51):
And then, the third time I didit, we actually got lost.
We went in the dark.
So I was doing it with SteveBaker and we were a really good
crew and we actually ended upcoming third out of everybody,
all the men, and you know it wasamazing.
But we got lost on the Thames,which is ridiculous.
But it was just such a I don'tknow, we got confused.
We ended up.
It was so dark.
We went round on one of theislands on the Thames and ended

(16:13):
up going back upstream and I waslike Steve the moon's moved,
which I know sounds stupid, butyou know, bear in mind, we had
been canoeing for God knows like10 hours at that point and I'm
like definitely something'sdifferent here.
And then we saw this crewcoming, you know, ahead of us,
coming towards us, and I'm like,and we just suddenly went, oh

(16:34):
no, like turned around.
I mean we'd only lost a coupleof minutes, but you know, you
just can't believe that you dothose kind of crazy things.
And you know, know, I mean thepeople that live along that
route.
It must be really weird,because every Easter you've got
these people walking around withtorchlight in the you know,
through the middle of the night,sneaking along the riverbank
trying to find their crew tofeed them.

Sue Anstiss (16:53):
You know fig rolls or something, yeah and you
mentioned that you're a GBathlete, so representing the
country.
How different was it then?
Because that was pre-lotterywithout aging you and me, but
that was kind of pre-lotteryfunding and UK sport and so on.
So what was that experiencelike and what was the gender
balance like in terms of being afemale athlete at that time?

Danielle Sellwood (17:16):
Yeah, I mean it was.
To be honest, it was incrediblyamateur.
You know like we had those oldlike cotton shirts that
basically just got a print of astripe on the front, like done
by somebody in their back room,kind of thing, you know it was.
There was no performancefabrics or anything like that,
so the kit and all of that wasvery basic.
We did have adidas track suitsthat were those kind of shiny

(17:38):
with a fluffy inside, if youremember those.
But um, yeah it.
Um, I mean the women's team wasmuch smaller, so there was
generally only four women.
So you had a, a k1, which wassingle, k2, double and k4 for
four because we did sprintcanoeing.
So you tended to have four orjust two women in the team as
opposed to the men who wouldhave like at least seven in the

(18:00):
team, if not more.
In terms of how we were treated, we were just.
We were just treated as thewomen's team in the same way as
the men's team.
We trained as hard.
I didn't find it in any way sortof patronising towards the
women, we were just athletes,the same.
But I do know that I did feelquite isolated socially away
from the sport, isolated in thesense that I just didn't know

(18:22):
anybody else that did sport likeat school or friends or anybody
.
There was literally nobody thatdid sport in any kind of
semi-serious way.
And so I kind of had like twolives.
I had the sporting life with myfriends in canoeing and then I
had my normal life, which waskind of like doing my art or

(18:43):
this kind of punky era and kindof being a very different sort
of person there.
And I did seek out I rememberseeking out some kind of
cultural reference points really, and I sent off.
It would have been one of theearliest sort of iterations of
the Women's Sport and FitnessFoundation.
They did a newsletter and youcould send off a stamped,

(19:03):
addressed envelope and get itsent back in the post like once
a month or every quarter orsomething I can't remember.
And there were a couple ofbooks.
I remember buying some books.
There was one called GraceUnder Pressure by Adrienne Blue,
and then there was another one,lynn Guest de Soit, I think it
was called Women and Sport, andI kind of like I sought out

(19:23):
those sorts of things to try andfind something that felt
relevant and kind of made mefeel part of something I suppose
.
I mean, I didn't really findthat thing that made me feel
part of a group of women thatloved sport, and I'm sure that
formed all of those that desireto sort of set up something like

(19:44):
Sports Sister to kind of giveyoung women that sort of sense
of being part of something great, you know.

Sue Anstiss (19:51):
Yeah, so interesting isn't it, how
different it is now and how youalready have that appetite to
discover more about it.
You mentioned the kit that youwere competing in and I know you
started your career working insportswear design, so working
for some major brands over adecade.
So what were you doing there?
And what was women's sportswear?
Was that?
In women's sportswearspecifically, you were working.

Danielle Sellwood (20:12):
No, not specifically, Because women's
sportswear wasn't really much ofa thing then.

Sue Anstiss (20:17):
So again, you know.

Danielle Sellwood (20:19):
Yeah, so this is where I kind of combined my
two skills, so sport and art.
So I was either going to godown the art route or I was
going to go to the sport route.
But I'm not very good atscience, so I ended up doing
fashion and textiles, not reallythinking about sport anymore
apart from just enjoying it.
But then I was like cycling tomy art college on my racing bike

(20:40):
with my mountain jacket and myrucksack on my back and everyone
else is wafting around inVivienne Westwood or something,
or you know their own creations.
And actually one of my firstyear tutors, guy Mathieu, he
said to me, have you thoughtabout designing sportswear?
And I was like no, he's, like Ithink you should have a go.
You know, it feels like that'swhat you should do.

(21:01):
And I remember at the end of myfirst year, like it was like
the heyday of like windsurfingand everything was like luminous
and bright, and so I did aproject around windsurfing and
then, yeah, so kind of the restis history really, it combined
that thing and I ended up doingmy a work placement at the end
of my second year doing ski wearat Nevica ski wear, if anybody
remembers that also very brightand luminous and very late 80s.

(21:24):
And then they funded mycollection because if you do
fashion you have to put togetherlike a collection for your
degree show and and I went towork there full-time straight
after that.
So, um, yeah, I worked forNevercur and Puma.
I designed Sheffield Wednesdayfootball kit.
So that was, you know, it wasmostly men's stuff to start with
.
I would say it was probably 85%was menswear at Puma at that

(21:48):
point actually, when I was doingtheir athletics kit.
So it was the time of LinfaChristie and Colin Jackson.
So I designed their kit.
But I was like, you know, soyou've got some female athletes
here that you sponsor, but youhaven't actually got any kit for
them.
It's like, can't we just makesome kit for them?
You know?
Um, so we did, I kind of forcedthat issue a little bit and so
like, even if we just do somesample runs you know, because

(22:11):
every time you design somethingyou get samples in I'm like,
even if we just do the samplesand they have the samples, then
at least they'll have some kit.
Yeah, we did that and and itdid change pretty quickly after
that I ended up.
I kind of went freelance afterthat and worked for Marks and
Spencer's and places like thatand they were brilliant.
They, you know they reallywanted to get into the whole
sportswear area and did a lot ofgood stuff early on and yeah,

(22:34):
so I had quite a mixed careerand I did really, really enjoy
it for a good, good period oftime, I think I I really enjoyed
you know the technical side ofit that it was you're buying
stuff because you need it for apurpose rather than a sort of a
frivolous reason of just needinganother item or something, and
I suppose I was.
You know I would never be ableto do it now in the world of

(22:55):
sort of fast fashion, becauseI'm just really not comfortable
with that.
I always felt with sportswearat that time that yeah, there
was a real purpose to designingit.
I actually wrote my dissertationfor my college course on the
evolution of sportswear and howit has affected athletic
performance, and it wasbasically that I was outlining

(23:16):
how what you wear makes you feelbetter and go faster.
So yeah, that whole point of itfor me was was great and I
guess then performance fabricstarted coming in and and the
world's really, it reallystarted taking off and by the
time I stopped designingsportswear.
You know it was women'ssportswear, was very well

(23:37):
established and sweaty betty andplaces like that had, you know,
um, come along and and stirredthings up a bit and and it was
in a much better place.
And then that's when I kind ofstarted moving away from it
really.

Sue Anstiss (23:48):
It's interesting though, isn't it, when you think
of that it doesn't feel thatlong ago that there wasn't any.
And then I wonder how you feelnow when you look at what there
is, when we've had issues, evenin Paris, around the women's kit
being, you know, much moreobjectified, much, you know,
much more objectified, much morerevealing clothing, etc.
So almost like we didn't haveit.
And then we've had it, and it'smassively over feminized too.

(24:08):
So what are your thoughts on onwhere we are now with women's
sports clothing?
Yeah, I mean it.

Danielle Sellwood (24:13):
I'm constantly conflicted on this
whole issue.
I, you know, I've always wantedwomen to be strong and
concentrate on the sport side ofit and you know, I found it
incredibly frustrating over theyears that we were always told,
even when I was doing sports, wewould be sent photographs of
sexualized women like that.

(24:34):
That was their key asset.
Even we went I think it wasabout 2009, we went to a women's
sport conference and it was allwomen apart from a couple of
blokes, and one bloke stood upand said you know, basically you
know, all you've got is yoursex to sell yourself.
If you want to make money,girls, that's what you've got to
do.
And I just was so incensed bythat sort of attitude and I even

(24:58):
I had kind of not is not thesame at all.
But when I was doing thecanoeing obviously it's a very
minority sport, it was not thesame at all.
But when I was doing thecanoeing obviously it's a very
minority sport and someone didone of the major newspapers did
take an interest in the thirdtime.
I did it when, when it lookedlike we would be in the top
three out of everybody, all theblokes and everybody.
And and I said to thejournalist after the interview
and they're like well, what'sthe chance of us getting
featured?

(25:19):
And she said well, you've gotblonde hair, so you know, as
long as the photos come out,well, I reckon there's a really
good chance.
And I was just absolutelyfuming and I didn't play ball
and I didn't, I tied my hair upand I put my canoe kit on for
the photo shoot, like becausethat's what I am, I'm a canoeist
.
And you know, guess what?
We didn't get featured becausethe photos didn't come out great

(25:39):
.
You know, I didn't play thegame.
I guess that's why I'mconflicted, because I do
understand why some women dofeel the need to play the game
and or enjoy playing that game,you know.
But I think it's absolutelyessential that we see all types
of women represented, all bodytypes.
You know, you shouldn't have tolook like a supermodel to get

(25:59):
coverage.
And it does still carry on andI do think it is changing,
changing, but it is a constantbattle and possibly even at a
point where, because more moneyis coming into the sport, maybe
that is actually becoming anissue again.
I hope that there's enoughwomen working in the industry
now, as opposed to then when itwas so much more male dominated.

(26:21):
I hope there's enough women inthere to try and keep the
balance right that we have alltypes of women represented
strong women, tall women, smallwomen, all types.
Every type of woman needs to berepresented.
So, in terms of the clothing andwhat people will wear, I think
it's challenging because youwear what you wear as your kit.

(26:44):
So in athletics they wear thelittle, you know, little
knickers and the little tinycrop tops and they're so used to
wearing that.
That is just their culture.
They don't think anything of itand I think you know, like we
used to wear like little lightshorts and a fitted top, I
literally didn't think anythingof it.
I certainly didn't think that Iwas being sexy by wearing that,

(27:05):
you know.
But I guess other people mighthave seen it in another way,
because it's completely fittedand I think we have a sort of an
issue where A people want tofeel part of that culture, of
what the look of that sport is.
You know, and I think you know,personally I think some of the
swimwear is incredibly skimpythese days, but I recognise that
they're all wearing the sameoutfit, which means if they want

(27:27):
to feel part of that, they kindof want to.
You know, wear the same aseverybody else.
I don't know how you stop thathappening or if it's our role to
do that, but I do find itproblematic and I suppose what I
would like to see is certainlymore athletes demanding options

(27:48):
and alternative outfits thatthey can wear, that they feel
comfortable in, and that doesn'tmean that you have to be super
skinny to wear one outfit or youknow stronger to wear another.
I think you know whatever makesyou feel comfortable and make
you feel that you can perform atyour best is the most important
thing.
But I think you know the worldof Instagram and everything else

(28:09):
has kind of set us back interms of so many of these young
women know that their value liesin how they look and everyone's
scrabbling around forsponsorship and it's a minefield
.
Really it's a minefield, yeahand it's a minefield.

Sue Anstiss (28:25):
Really it's a minefield.
Yeah, our paths actually thencrossed again at the Women's
Sport Trust, where I was anearly trustee and you were the
director of a visual campaign.
So again, more of that work, ofhow we represent women.
What are you proud of?
What are you most proud of?
There were lots of campaignsand activities.
Was there anything that springsto mind in terms of the work
that you did?

Danielle Sellwood (28:42):
there.
So, yeah, I mean, what anamazing time that was with Tammy
and Jo setting up Women'sSports Trust, and they just got
in touch with us when we weredoing Sports Sister actually,
and then we kind of you know, wewere all kind of sharing our
contacts Shelley Alexander fromthe BBC, head of women's sport
at that time, and all thesedifferent people that were kind
of contributing to try and joinall the dots of women that were

(29:04):
kind of doing their thing ontheir own and bring everybody
together, which was amazing.
And I think I like to thinkagain, like Sports Sister, I
think we made a big impact as agroup of people.
I mean, the Game ChangersAwards was incredible being able
to highlight people doing greatstuff.
I always love to champion whatother people doing great things
and some of the categories werereally, really hard because we

(29:25):
just didn't have enough.
You know, like we're at a greatad campaigns at that time and
you know some things we had towork really hard to find things
to fill those categories, butthat was great.
But we also did one of theearliest projects I did with
Women's Sports Trust was aphotographic exhibition that
KPMG very kindly offered tosupport and host in their
offices and it was basicallyseeking out some of the best

(29:47):
sports photography of women andthis was following on from our
covers that we had done atSports Sister.
So looking at photographs ofwomen looking strong, doing
their sport, but top quality,beautifully done photographs,
and that was an absolute joy todo.
And my absolute favourite wasone of Christina Hurigu in a

(30:07):
sort of start position and it isthe most extraordinary,
beautiful photograph of a strongwoman at the top of her game
and her you know her physiqueand her strength and her
determination, her eyes.
It was absolutely stunningphotograph.
Um, and that will that.

Sue Anstiss (30:23):
That image always stays with me that's so
interesting because when I putthat question in, it was that
image that I still think of,that.
If for me that is such apowerful, actually if I can find
it somewhere on the internet,I'll put it in the show notes, a
link to it on the show notespeople can see it because I
think for me and across all ofthat time, that image kind of
meant so much.

Danielle Sellwood (30:42):
I think it was, yeah, as you say, such a
powerful, powerful piece alsothere's such a nice link for me
with Christina Hurigu because wehad her as our first um cover
of our very first pamphlet thatwe did as sports sister.
We got a photograph of her fromAdidas that they let us use, so
she was our first cover.
So, yeah, um, I got a lot oftime for Christina Hurigu and

(31:02):
her talent.
Yeah.

Sue Anstiss (31:04):
Yeah, lots of synergy there.
You're now making brilliant,inspiring content at Find it
Films.
So how did that process start,how did it begin and what were
the first pieces that you madein terms of documentary content?

Danielle Sellwood (31:18):
Yeah, so I'd actually met Nicola Waterworth
who was part of Women's SportsTrust.
She was on the board and wekind of both crossed over a bit
into the sort of outdoor area,so not pure sport, but the more
outdoor sports areas.
We were both going to filmfestivals like the Banff
Mountain Film Festival andKendall Mountain Film Festival
and they have these tours andI'd been taking my kids to them

(31:40):
from very early and we'd goalong and there'd be no stories
of surfing and climbing and youknow all sorts of quite extreme
sports and you know lots ofblokes doing crazy snowboarding
stunts and stuff.
And and there was one film thatI had seen and I'm trying to
think how long ago, it was hardto say, but my daughter was only
like early teens and she's 23now, so I guess it's like 10

(32:00):
years ago and there was a filmcalled Spice Girl about Hazel
Findlay as a climber and she wasdoing this sheer rock face, I
think, with her dad and it was aquite short film and she was
just really engaging and reallyinteresting to listen to and she
was doing this absolutely, youknow, incredible climb and I sat

(32:21):
there and I honestly I canstill remember how I felt I was
just like it gave me so muchenergy.
I was so excited but also kindof like I was such a shot of
adrenaline to see this young,very modest but incredibly
talented woman climbing thisrock and I was like I just had

(32:41):
like this driving force in methat I was like this, this needs
to be seen in every school.
You know, every school girlshould see this film.
I was just like.
I was almost like incensed thatyou know, it was only at this
festival and it was only likebeing shown to people that were
already on board with that wholeconcept that, you know, women
can be like this.
And I decided we'd do a women'ssport film festival ourselves so

(33:03):
we could bring together allthese nuggets and put them into
one festival.
So we did that and we ran afestival in Bristol and actually
it was quite hard to find thatmany women's films to bring
along and we had no idea how theindustry worked.
It was just like we should justdo it.
I mean, that's kind of how I amLike, if there's a gap in
something, I'm just going to doit myself.

(33:23):
So that's kind of how I am Like.
I say, if there's a gap andsomething, I'm just going to do
it myself.
So kind of waded in naively andwe did it and it was great and
I loved it, no-transcript, andso we did that.

(33:51):
But we didn't have much money.
He'd only do a very short film,it's like two minutes or
something.
And then he owned it and wecouldn't show it anywhere else.
And I think that just made meabsolutely fuming because I was
like, well, what else are yougonna do with to do with this
film?
You know, like you know, you'renot going to make money out of
a two minute film about somewomen, young girls in Bristol,
you know.
So I just thought, right, well,I'm not going to do that again,

(34:12):
I'm just going to learn how todo it myself and then we'll own
the films and then we can showthem to everybody and put them
out there.
And that's kind of how I gotstarted.
And again, absolutely naively, Imean it's taken me a long time
to learn all the technical sideof it and I mean I'm never.
I mean I'm gosh, I'm miles fromknowing all the technical stuff
, but I just learned by doingreally.
So I kind of got a reasonablecamera that I could just about

(34:35):
afford and then I just startedmaking short films about people
or just going up to, you know,asking people, would you mind?
You know, I'd really like tojust do a three minute film.
And then actually, ellisBrigham, who I knew from my days
of doing Sports, sister, theywanted to do some women's

(34:55):
content, so they actually fundedus with a camera person to do
five shorts and I wanted to dosomething about how it feels to
do sports.
So the series I called Engageyour Senses.
We had a canoeist, we had aclimber, we had someone that was
doing lots of differentmarathons who'd never run a
marathon before and they wereall different stories and ocean
rower.

(35:15):
But what we really focused onwas what each of these women got
from it, what it gave them, howit felt, what the emotions were
got from it, what it gave them,how it felt, what the emotions
were, why someone might want todo it again, what is it that
makes you keep going back to doit again.
So it was really tapping intothat other side of it.
That was nothing aboutcompetition or achievement and

(35:38):
very much about the experienceof doing sport, and I loved
doing that.
I kind of like, yeah, this iswhere it's at for me.
This is what it's about.
And then I just, you know, Igot involved with the ocean
rower.
From that, leah Ditton went onto do an incredible row from San
Francisco to Hawaii and Iworked with her on her film,

(35:59):
which I didn't have to film any,we just used all the footage
that she had taken and we kindof made it into a sort of
30-something minute film.
And that was an incrediblydramatic story but also
incredibly authentic.
And what a woman to row, not aspart of a competition or an
event, but just completely onher own from San Francisco to

(36:23):
Hawaii Absolutely incredible.
And to be able to do all theengineering and electrics that
you need on the way and all theother things that are required
Stunning.
It was an amazing performance.
So I made that film and that gotpicked up by a couple of film
festivals and and then I guessyou know, once you start, you
know it's a tiny bit of successthen.
Then you can sort of startasking people if they wouldn't

(36:45):
mind funding something, and somy next film was um around older
women doing sports.
So we started that before thepandemic I'd met alex rotas, who
had been involved in our GameChangers Awards at the Women's
Sports Trust because she's beentaking photographs of older
athletes for probably 15 yearsnow and she'd been telling me

(37:07):
some of these incredible storiesof women and I just thought, my
goodness, these are amazingstories, let's make a film.
We got some funding fromIndependent Age and we started
just focusing on four women andmaking a film.
It was very late, runningmassively over budget because of
the pandemic, but we got it outthere and it's, you know, we're
just finishing our littlecinema run with it and that's

(37:28):
been yeah, it's been veryenjoyable little 50.
You had 50 screenings, yeah, wedid.
I mean, you know, some of themwere during the day and you, you
know that's there's.
So it's so challenging towithout any marketing budget and
you know it's very difficult toget a film out there.
But I was really determinedthat and Alex was too that we
wanted it to.
We wanted communities to cometo it and watch it and have an

(37:53):
just sort of put it out onyoutube or vimeo or whatever.
And we knew that when from ourfilm festival experiences, that
people were very deeply affectedby it, you know, and they
wanted to talk about itafterwards.
And every time we've done a q a, you know we just can't get rid
of people, you know, like atthe end they want to stay and
talk because it's made such adifference, and men and women.

(38:16):
You know, we had a man atKendall who had just recently
had a stroke.
Before he saw it and he just hewas, you know, he was very
emotional because he thought hislife as he knew it was over and
he was in his 60s, and thenhe'd seen this 85 year old woman
doing 100 meters who'd had astroke, and it basically gave
him the kick up the arse that heneeded.
As he said, it's an amazingfilm and that amazing woman.

Sue Anstiss (38:37):
It's like how she takes the bends because it
affects one side of her body.
She's so open about the way inwhich she then approaches her
running it's amazing.

Danielle Sellwood (38:45):
Yeah, so that's that.
Yeah, that's dot.
So she's our oldest one and she, yeah, she's, she's actually 86
or maybe even 87 now.
And, yeah, because she's had astroke on one side, she can't on
the indoor track.
It's like going up a hill forher.
But we also had, like SueYeomans, who's a pole vaulter,
and she only took up polevaulting when she was in her
late 40s.
I mean, that is something elseright.
And then we had Joy Lynn, whostruggled an awful lot with her

(39:09):
mental health over the years.
But her running, I mean she is,you know, if she had had the
opportunities as a young woman,I have no doubt she would have
been an Olympian Olympicchampion, even, you know,
staggeringly talented woman.
And so she runs and throws.
She was wonderful.
And then we had Noel, who is arace walker.
I really wanted to cover lots ofdifferent types of sports.

(39:29):
You know, to give a bit of a.
You know a cross section, Ithink you know definitely having
some fields events in there.
And then the walking, which ismuch lesser known, and you know
the race walking.
I just, I just don't know whythat's not.
Someone needs to make that abigger thing because, like she
says you know as people getolder, the fact that you know
like you do get niggles, you doget injuries Like race walking,

(39:52):
is just brilliant for that, youknow.
I think it's great.

Sue Anstiss (39:57):
I completely agree.
It made me want to go out andstart race walking when I
watched it.
It really makes you want to doit doesn't it?

Danielle Sellwood (40:02):
it's fantastic.
You know it really does andlike I think it's a really good
lesson to all of us, because I'msure so you're like me, you
know, like you don't seeyourself as being in your late
50s and that you would, or orthat you wouldn't, that you
would give up sport.
If you've done sport all yourlife, why would you stop doing
it?
But, by the same token, it's awhole other thing seeing people
in their 80s still competing, or90s and 100s, and I would never

(40:23):
have thought I'm not sayingI'll be competing, but to have
those.
I guess they're just like rolemodels to us.
You know, middle-aged women,young women, whatever they are
our role models to actually seethat still happening.
And for them, of course, somuch of it is the joy of
community and purpose and beingtogether with your friends, and
that is a massive part of thefilm.

(40:44):
That really it's the comingtogether of like-minded people
and just enjoying doing theirsport together.

Sue Anstiss (40:51):
And from a practical point of view of your
whole self-taught.
You're so bloody humble, aren'tyou?
The way you, oh yeah, justpicked, picked up a camera, but
in terms of the actual even withthe rowing, did you, were you
editing that footage?
Is that, have you?

Danielle Sellwood (41:03):
you're kind of self-taught in terms of all
the editing and creating thecontent, yeah thank goodness for
youtube eh, you know, google ismy friend like, how do I do
this?
You know there's a lot outthere to help and, um, yeah, I
mean I'm a long way from.
And I think the trouble is also, if you kind of learn just by
kind of doing, you don'tnecessarily learn in the correct

(41:25):
way.
So then when you start workingwith people that actually know
what they're doing, you kind ofrealize that you're doing it not
necessarily wrong, but, um,that there would have been
better way of doing it.
You, but you know, like Ididn't have any money or funding
and I didn't have the time togo off to university.
So I mean, it's just like it'sjust finding a way to make it
possible really and just havinga go.
And, like I said, you know, Isuppose it's that old art school

(41:47):
sort of beginning of my lifethat you kind of well just get
stuck in and have a go and seewhere you end up.

Sue Anstiss (42:00):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that and your.
Your current project isUntethered.
So it's a super powerfuldocumentary being made as part
of Sky Sports New Focus Fund,and it was an absolute privilege
for me.
I got a sneak peek this weekendbefore its release, and it
truly is.
It's brilliant, it's reallymoving, it's really funny as
well, and I'd absolutely lovedit.
Um, so, I guess, tell us alittle bit more about the
subject of the film.

Danielle Sellwood (42:19):
Yeah, so I mean this is quite close to my
heart because I mean they allare.
Obviously I can't do projectsunless I love them.
But my daughter is blind andthis is a story about a blind
swimmer.
So like I understand theexperience of you know, I mean I
guess I'm a disability ally.
I haven't got the livedexperience, but having a
daughter that's been blind, Iguess as close as you get.

(42:39):
And I had got into sort of longdistance swimming or just
swimming outdoors like mostpeople had, like in the pandemic
, and I'd kind of, yeah, I'vereally enjoyed being back in the
water, having not really doneany canoeing for a long time.
And just, yeah, it was a way in.
And I came across MelanieBarrett on Facebook in one of

(42:59):
the open water swimming groupsand and she was using bone
conducting headphones to aheadset to be able to swim
outdoors.
So she had been 1996 and 2000Paralympic champion at swimming.
But obviously that's in a pooland you know you can count your
strokes, it's verystraightforward, it's very
manageable in terms of you know,it's a controlled environment.
But to actually swim outside isa whole different thing.

(43:21):
So I was like, oh, that'sreally fascinating, that's
interesting, you know.
So I just sent her a littlemessage and I said you know,
melanie, I'm really interestedin what you do.
Would you be interested in medoing like a little personal
project, like a passion project,film about you?
Maybe I could come and justchat to you and we'll see if we
get on.
She lived a couple of hours away, up in near Warwick, and yeah,

(43:42):
we just got on really well.
I mean, she's just great.
You know, we're like lifelongfriends now, but we just got on
really well.
And so I started doing somefilming and and I realised that
you know, she had, you know shehad a really low self-esteem,
despite being such an incredibleathlete, because she had had so

(44:02):
much discrimination over herlife.
And, yeah, she just reallystruggled with who she was.
And so it became the film.
The short film became as muchabout sort of disability
politics as it did about theswimming.
And then somewhere in this sortof process of us kind of just
getting, you know, moving on,and I was like, oh, maybe I try
and get some funding, let's makethis something bigger.
And then she dropped in thisbombshell that, oh, I'm going to

(44:25):
try and swim the channel, I'mgoing to try and be the first
blind woman to swim the channel.
I'm like, oh my goodness, wereally need some budget now
because that is a massive story.
And gosh, I've lucked outbecause I'm absolutely in the
right place at the right timeand I'm, you know, I've kind of
made friends with her.

Sue Anstiss (44:41):
Yeah no, I didn't know that she was gonna do that
I didn't realize, that youdidn't know that when you first
reached out to her.

Danielle Sellwood (44:47):
Oh wow, you know and then, of course, I'm
absolutely paranoid thatsomebody with a proper camera
and a and a broadcast companywould like snap her up.
So luckily they didn't.
We kept going and I kept tryingto find some funding and then I
bumped into now Sue, you'regoing to love this because it's
a really nice little thing aboutnetworking and providing

(45:07):
platforms and places for peopleto talk.
I bumped into Anna Kessel atthe launch of your Game Changers
film documentary and she said,oh, I was just telling her about
the access side of it that Iwas doing so because my
daughter's blind.
I was learning how to do audiodescription and I was learning
about captioning and I waswanting to make the film really
accessible.
And she was like, oh gosh, itsounds really interesting.

(45:29):
We're just about to launch thisfund at Sky Sports.
It's called the New Focus Fundand we're really looking for
diverse projects.
You should enter it.
It's called the New Focus Fundand we're really looking for
diverse projects.
You should enter it.
And I found it quite hard tofind it.
And then I found it and it wasjust like a one article and it
was.
You know, it was a young blackguy holding a camera, was the
image.
And I was like, oh, they're notgoing to be interested in me.

(45:54):
You know, older woman, you know, yeah, anyway, wrong point of
my career, all of that stuff.
Anyway, I applied and we wentthrough various rounds and you
know, absolutely amazingly,incredibly, we got selected out
of the 10 projects.
So then ours is a proper fulllength hour and 20 minute
documentary about Melanie thisyear training to swim with the

(46:24):
channel, doing the channel, andthen a lot about her backstory
as well, and it's been anincredible year.
I have to say it has beenexceptional.
I've loved every minute of it.

Sue Anstiss (46:36):
And you shared a very powerful post on social
media last week talking abouthow you wanted to incorporate
that mantra of nothing about uswithout us when you're working
in that disability space.
So what do you mean by that?
And I guess, how tough was itto make that authentic
documentary, as you say, about ablind woman without your lived
experience?

Danielle Sellwood (46:58):
as you say about a blind woman, without
your lived experience.
Yeah, I mean, I mean I wasobviously having a daughter who,
um, obviously she's grown up,brought her up, so I mean I've
seen the discriminationfirsthand and the struggles, but
also she is, um, you know,she's a really, she's really
proud of who she is and very,she's that bit younger, she's
got that real sort of sense ofbeing, you know, disability,
pride and enjoying beingdifferent.

(47:20):
I have to also give a massiveshout out to my dad, who died a
few years ago when my daughterwas born and they first said to
us that she you know, worst casescenario, she could be blind is
what the guy said to me afterI'd just given birth.
Thanks, guy, you know, that'sgreat kind of very.
Yeah, we just didn't reallyknow quite what to do.

(47:41):
I mean, I wasn't, I was dauntedby it, but you know, you just
don't know where to start and mydad said my dad, he was a very
creative man and he said thiswill be her greatest asset and
it just flipped our wholethinking on its head.

(48:20):
No-transcript.
So yeah, it was a reallyinteresting one because
obviously I wanted to be reallysensitive to Melanie's story.
I didn't want to.
You know I because I gained hertrust and no-transcript, she

(49:03):
would be in the top 25% ofeverybody swimming.
You know, it's utterlydisgraceful that there is this
discrimination against disabledpeople.
So it was.
It's a fine balance of of nottelling the story I wanted it to
be, versus what her story was,and then also involving other
disabled people, other disabledtalent in the project.

(49:25):
So the music was composed byLloyd Coleman, who works for the
Para Orchestra, and he'spartially sighted, partially
hearing, so you know, and aswimmer, so he was super excited
to be involved.
That was really important.
My daughter's been involved interms of doing the audio
description and narrating theaudio description.
We've also had that signed offby Ros Chalmers, who works at

(49:48):
the National Theatre and is anabsolute legend of audio
description and access, and thenDr Chris Whittaker, who has
worked extensively in disabilityspace.
He watched it with his wife,fran and they gave me their
feedback.
And obviously Melanie watchedit before we put it anywhere to

(50:09):
make sure that everybody wasreally comfortable with the
narrative, that it was true toher experience and true to her,
and I know a lot of people arequite often surprised when I say
that I would have changed it ifMelanie wasn't happy with it.
But I would have done, becauseif she didn't like it, then it's
.
I don't want it going out theremyself.
You know, I would have loved tohave had a disabled person

(50:30):
doing the filming, if possible.
Or, yeah, that's something towork on, to get more disabled
talent working in the industrygenerally so that they are
telling their own stories andhow are you feeling now, ahead
of release?

Sue Anstiss (50:41):
so it's going to be at film festivals and on sky, I
think, isn't it when?
When can we see it?

Danielle Sellwood (50:46):
yeah, so it's coming out, um, at, we're
premiering at kendall mountainfilm festival on the 21st of
november and I believe it'sgoing out on sky sports around
the same time.
But yeah, watch this.
We'll let everybody know assoon as it comes out.
You know, it's going to befairly unique in as much as the
audio description, which isnormally something you switch on
or off, is going to be live foreverybody to hear.
We've kind of combined it witha sort of a narration style

(51:09):
audio description, so it's kindof almost seamless.
We've got open captions on thescreen for everybody and we've
also got BSL on screen.
So you know, the idea was whenI pitched it was that it was
taking into considerationMelanie's needs first.
So Melanie the athlete neededto be able to access this film
as a priority over everybodyelse, which is completely the

(51:32):
opposite to how everything isdone generally, where access is
tacked on afterwards.
So that was my starting pointand and that's what we've done.

Sue Anstiss (51:40):
That's brilliant and I, I guess I appreciate from
my own experience, uh, ofmaking documentaries not as many
as you, but a few, but howtough it can be to find that
funding, especially fornon-mainstream films and
especially when you haven't gotthe big name, household names in
terms of your, your kind ofcontent, the people to follow, I
guess.
How have you dealt with thatand where have you found your

(52:01):
funding?
You've talked a little bitabout, obviously, the Sky Fund
and the funding for older aswell too, but where have you
gone to find that funding?

Danielle Sellwood (52:09):
Yeah, I mean, gosh, it's not easy, it's
really not easy.
I am and I'm not even, as youknow, I'm not really very good
at self-promotion either.
So like, in terms of puttingmyself out there to try and get
funding, I'm blooming uselessreally.
So some of it's just been kindof luck, to be honest, and my
independent age coming on boardfor younger, was through a

(52:30):
contact.
I mean, it's getting to knowpeople, it's networking, it's
all that kind of stuff.
It really makes a bigdifference.
You know, I wouldn't have metAnna well, I knew Anna, but I
wouldn't have known about thefund if I hadn't met her at your
event.
You know it's, it's kind ofjust, it's just building
contacts over a long period oftime.
But you know, I have no ideawhat I'm, how I'm going to fund
my next film yet.

(52:51):
So you know, like it's, everytime you start something new,
it's it's another challenge and,like you say, if you're not
doing a big name story, thenit's even more challenging.
But actually for me, I meanthat's where the real gold lies
is, in those untold stories, andthat's what I really love.
So you know, I'll just carry ondoing what I'm doing and find a

(53:11):
way, because that's just who Iam and what, what I love doing.
And yeah, it's not that I'mwealthy, I'm just.
I'm just very um lowmaintenance.
I guess I don't need much to behappy.

Sue Anstiss (53:26):
I love that.
And finally, obviously you'veachieved so many extraordinary
things in terms of drivingchange women's sport, but also
more broadly across society.
So so I'll have you got as yousit here now, and obviously
there's lots with getting thisfilm out this autumn, but are
there other things in thepipeline?
What more would you like to do?
It feels like you've had quitea diverse range of things that
you've done across your career.

(53:46):
Is there anything you'resetting your mind to?

Danielle Sellwood (53:49):
Well, I mean this is it for me now, like
documentaries.
I absolutely loved it.
I think it's the best, thething that I've enjoyed
absolutely the most in my career.
I mean I've loved everything,but this one really gives me.
It brings all my skillstogether, so like that art
school background, but then thestorytelling of being a
journalist and then obviouslywomen's sport and diverse
stories and the unheard stories.

(54:09):
It just brings everythingtogether.
So, definitely staying in thedocumentary place if I can, I
mean there is so much still tobe done.
I mean where are all so muchstill to be done?
So I mean where are all the bigstories?
Where are the films about ourmajor female sports stars?
They just aren't out there.
You look out there and there'sall these men stories.
You know, I find that reallyfrustrating.
Obviously that's morechallenging because then you've

(54:31):
got lots of archive, which ismassively expensive.
But yeah, I think there's a lotof stories that need to be told
, that are much more mainstreamthan I would normally do but are
really important that we havethose women's histories out
there, the women that have beenbefore and have done these
incredible things and been suchhigh achievers and are such role
models to so many.
I think we need to see thosestories, but I think, you know,

(54:54):
we just need more and more.
You know, we just need to hearof all these different women
from different backgrounds, withdifferent body types, different
sports they love.
You know, we just haven't got adiverse range of role models
out there for young women yet,and that's, you know.
That's what I'm focusing on.

Sue Anstiss (55:23):
What an absolute pleasure to talk to danielle.
I love her passion to do theright thing and how she's
willing to just have a go ateverything.
It's so refreshing to hear.
If you'd like to hear from moretrailblazers like danielle,
there are over 200 episodes ofthe game changers that are free
to listen to on all podcastplatforms or from our website at
fearlesswomencouk.
Along with elite athletes, youcan also hear from coaches,

(55:45):
entrepreneurs, broadcasters,scientists, journalists and CEOs
all women who are changing thegame in sport.
As well as listening to all thepodcasts on the website, you can
also find out more about theWomen's Sport Collective, a free
, inclusive community for allwomen working in sport.
We now have over 8,500 membersacross the world, so please do

(56:10):
come and join us.
The whole of my book Game Onthe Unstoppable Rise of Women's
Sport is also free to listen toon the podcast.
Every episode of series 13 isme reading a chapter of the book
.
Thanks again to Sport Englandfor backing the Game Changers

(56:30):
and the Women's Sport Collectivethrough a National Lottery
Award, and to Sam Walker at whatGoes On Media, who does such a
brilliant job as our executiveproducer.
Thank you also to my lovelycolleague, kate Hannan.
You can find the Game Changerson all podcast platforms, so
please follow us now and youwon't miss out on future
episodes.
Do come and say hello on socialmedia, where you'll find me at

(56:53):
Sue Anstis, the Game ChangersFearless women in sport.