Jess Thirlby: Coaching, Courage and Creating Change

"I hate mediocrity. As soon as it feels like we’re sitting in the status quo, I feel like I’m failing."

In this brilliant episode of The Game Changers, Sue Anstiss is joined by Jess Thirlby, Head Coach of the Vitality Roses and one of the most respected leaders in world netball.

From growing up in a deeply sporting family in the South West to representing England at the Commonwealth Games and ultimately leading the national side, Jess shares an extraordinary journey through sport.

Jess’s warmth and candour are apparent as she reflects on:

• Finding her love for netball in a primary school playground
• Playing alongside legends during the pioneering years at Team Bath
• Making history as England’s first full-time netballer and how it reshaped her view of the sport
• Stepping into the Roses Head Coach role after their historic 2018 Commonwealth Gold — and the pressure and privilege of leading a team with the nation’s hopes on their shoulders
• Her bold, collaborative coaching style and relentless pursuit of excellence
• Her ambition to lead the team to World Cup Gold in 2027
• Balancing high-performance leadership with family life and the realities of motherhood in elite sport

Jess speaks powerfully about the evolution of netball, her hopes for Super League 2.0, and why the sport must remain unapologetically female-first while building a more inclusive and sustainable future.

A compelling conversation that highlights what it takes to lead with integrity in the spotlight, inspire the next generation and stay grounded — even when chasing that elusive World Cup Gold.

 

Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.

Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers

Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media

A Fearless Women production

Episode Transcript

Sue Anstiss (00:03):
Welcome to The Game Changers.
I'm Sue Anstiss, and this isthe podcast where you'll hear
from trailblazing women in sportwho are knocking down barriers
and challenging the status quofor women and girls everywhere.
What can we learn from theirjourneys as we explore key
issues around equality in sportand beyond?
As always, a huge thank you toour partners, Sport England, who

(00:26):
support The Game Changerspodcast through a National
Lottery Award.
As a keen netballer myself, Iam thrilled to welcome Jess
Thirlby to the podcast this week.
Jess is a former England netballplayer and the current head
coach of the England Roses.
She was a part of Team Bath'ssquad that won the inaugural

(00:47):
netball Super League title in2006 and represented England at
the 2002 Commonwealth Games.
Transitioning into coaching,Jess led the Celtic Dragons
before returning to Team Bath,first as assistant coach, then
head coach and director ofnetball, guiding the team to
multiple Super League titles.
In July 2019, jess wasappointed England's head coach
and director of netball, guidingthe team to multiple Super
League titles.
In July 2019, jess wasappointed England's head coach

(01:10):
and in 2023, she led the EnglandRoses to their first ever World
Cup final, with an ambition totake them one step further at
the World Cup in Sydney in 2027.
Jess is widely respected in thenetball world for her strategic
acumen, leadership anddedication to the sport.
Just a flag.
We did have a couple of issueswith the audio in the middle of

(01:31):
this podcast, but it's suchgreat content I didn't want you
to miss it, so please do stickwith it, as it's only for a
couple of minutes.
I started by asking Jess abouthow sport played a part in her
life as she grew up.
She came from a very sportyfamily, but was netball always
her first love?

Jess Thirlby (01:50):
In short, definitely, I think, because it
was my first experience reallyof sport at school.
So I think I would have been inprimary school, maybe year four
, and I remember what went on tobe a really influential PE
teacher.
So many of us have got thatstory, haven't?
We and you weren't meant torepresent the school until year
five and six and she obviouslysaw something in me and kindly

(02:13):
invited me on the top playgroundat my junior school to trial
amongst the year fives and sixesand I knocked out a poor year
six which I still remember hername and I like feel awful for
doing it knocked her out of theteam.

Sue Anstiss (02:26):
Rather than knocked her, knocked her out of the
team.
Yeah, that's terrible.

Jess Thirlby (02:31):
I didn't have that in me for sure, um, and I think
the score was two nil and I'dscored the two goals.
So I just felt this likeeverybody was just like, oh my
gosh, like that's amazing,because at that age I think it's
quite novel, isn isn't it, toactually get it in.
So yeah, I just remembernetball definitely was kind of
like my first experience ofsport, but I went on to play

(02:52):
lots of other things and wasencouraged to do so, but also
showed a keen interest to tryand other sports as well.
But I didn't really kind offeel the same vibe with
individual sports.
I did athletics to quite a highlevel through my secondary
school.
What events did?
Basketball rounders, hockey,well, new guests, why don't you
guess what high jump?
No, no, I um, I don't know ifthis is.

(03:13):
My husband will be devastatedthat I'm saying this publicly
again, but I was a shot putterand a discus thrower.

Sue Anstiss (03:19):
I love shot put.
I did a lot of shot put too.

Jess Thirlby (03:21):
I know, I know.
So, yeah, I'm very proud of Ihad long levers at the time.
So I was, yeah, I was prettykind of tall and long and
apparently, yeah, that's whatled to me being a little bit
successful as a junior.
But I didn't quite get the samevibe from it as I did from team
sport and netball.
So I definitely was always kindof like leaning towards, yeah,

(03:42):
netball.
But it certainly was my firstlove in sport, for sure.
And your dad was.
He did a professionalfootballer.
Yeah, no, dad was aprofessional footballer.
He played for bristol city um,then he signed for chelsea, went
to leicester and then returnedback to bristol city um later on
in his career.
But, um, I've written, I'veonly really fully appreciated
dad's kind of sportingachievements really later in

(04:05):
life because I think he was verymuch coming towards the tail
end.
I was born in 1979.
I think his final season wasmaybe the 82, 83 season back at
Bristol City and so, yeah, Ihaven't really fully appreciated
it, which is terrible really.
But I was a radiographer when Ifirst graduated from university
and often people would look atmy badge, the patients, and say,
oh, are you the daughter ofChris Garland?

(04:28):
And it kind of like dawned onme, like how much of an impact,
particularly locally within theBristol area, like how impactful
kind of dad's story had beenand you know, I took for granted
I think later in his career hedid a little bit of management,
just dipped his toe down in minehead and I met George Best and
like these things were mostprobably lost on me a little bit
at the time and it's onlyreally been, yeah, latter and

(04:50):
obviously we lost dad in 2023.
But I've got two older brothersand my oldest brother in
particular is brilliant at kindof like reminding us all of
dad's achievement.
So, yeah, my dad definitely wasthe pro footballer, but I'd say
my mum was the biggestinfluence in terms of netball.
She started off a littlenetball club in our area for all
of the mum and housewives andthen engaged that PE teacher

(05:12):
that I mentioned before, and sofrom there on in, I just sat on
sidelines watching, watchingthem and felt inspired really.
Were your brothers sporty too?
Yeah, they were both reallysporty.
They both played football, butI would say my middle, like the
middle one of us, was um moreserious into his football.
My eldest brother was more of agolfer both of them, if they
were here, would be cringingbecause they'd say, oh, we were

(05:33):
not.
We were nowhere near any decentlevel, but they did they.
They both pursued sport and Ithink, as you mentioned before,
I just grew up in a householdthat if we weren't playing sport
, we were watching sport.
My brother's a man Unitedsupporter, hence why I'm a
Manchester United supporter.
Sport was always part of thecourse in our house, really.

Sue Anstiss (05:51):
And you mentioned that you've been a radiographer.
You were studying radiographywhen you moved across to become
team bar's first full-timeplayer in 1999, so did it feel
at the time like it was a realturning point for for the sport?

Jess Thirlby (06:06):
did it feel at the time like it was a real turning
point for for the sport?
Yeah, definitely I was.
I was still studying, actually,and then when Lynn Gunson
arrived, and before that AliOliver and Jed Roddy approached
me, I was playing age groupnetball and actually heading
towards my own world youth cupin Cardiff in 2000.
So it was quite a serious timefor me and I had finished my
first year of my degree and thenthey called me up to say they
were going to start a full-timenetball program and you've got

(06:26):
to remember this is like 1999.
Like you know, the England teamwere only training one weekend a
month at that point, and so itwas massively groundbreaking to
kind of be the first player tobe invited to be part of
something so incredible, withhigh caliber coaches that were
prepared to come from NewZealand to come and coach, you
know.

(06:47):
So they were quick to kind ofrecruit some of us and I guess
in the southwest area at thetime I was lucky to be one of
the only players most probablyin the pathway at that moment.
So it was the most probablyobvious to to kind of ask if I
wanted to, but still a reallybig commitment from me and I
took a year out, actuallybetween my first and second year
of my degree, to just throwmyself at the opportunity, and

(07:08):
I'm so glad that I did becauseit was pioneering at the time
and I still think to an extentnow, because I still think it's
really led the way for people tothink about what's possible
rather than what we can't do,and I think I've really held
onto that now in terms of myplaying and coaching journey.
I don't take no very well foran answer and I quite enjoy the

(07:29):
challenge of trying to do thingsdifferently or for the first
time.
So, yeah, I think it was a hugemoment for the sport and
hopefully had great rippleeffects across not just our
country but across the world aswell and were your parents
supportive of it at that time interms of your taking a year out
from your studies and so on?
Yeah, no, it's a really goodquestion.
I don't know if I've everreally asked that.
I don't think they had muchchoice.

(07:50):
I kind of put the phone down toAli Oliver and was on like a
train over to Bath within like20 minutes and sat outside
around the athletics trackdiscussing when can I start, and
they didn't even have the coachthen.
But yeah, I think they were.
My parents have always beenreally supportive and I always
have really valued pursuing myacademics as well as my sport.

(08:10):
And that's not to say I'venever found academics easy.
It doesn't come naturally to me, but I've always been really
hardworking and I do take realpride in trying to achieve
things.
So I would like to think thatboth my parents and also my mum
as well, because my mum and dadseparated when I was about 13 or
14.

(08:30):
So I was living just with mymum and I think she always knew
that I was quite diligent, Iwasn't going to take things for
granted.
I didn't see that obviously atthe time, definitely didn't see
that as a career, but certainlysaw it as a love and a passion.
So I think she most probablytrusted that I wouldn't do it at
the cost of my academic studyand I didn't, so hopefully I've

(08:52):
repaid that trust.

Sue Anstiss (08:53):
I like that, and representing your country at the
2002 Commonwealth Games musthave been a huge moment in your
playing career.
So what emotions andexperiences stand out for you
now when you kind of look backat that over 20 years ago.
I know that's scary isn't it?

Jess Thirlby (09:08):
um, yeah, mixed.
Most probably, namely because Iwasn't originally selected in
the squad to go to theCommonwealth Games and I know
you've had Pam on here beforeand she works closely with you
and I, unfortunately, slashfortunately was Pam's
replacement because sadly Pamruptured her cruciate ligament
very close to the tournament andI'd gone through all the trials

(09:30):
and the selection and I knew Iwas close but not quite in that
initial 12.
You know it was disappointing,but I was still quite young, I
was trying to transition reallyinto that senior group.
So, yeah, it was.
It was mixed, I guess of likehow I found myself in in the
squad, but I also felt like itwas a great honor to to be Pam's
replacement and, uh, it wasimportant that I held true to

(09:53):
both represent her around theteam as best I could.
I was originally going to begoing actually to do some media
with the local BBC radio here,so I remember being on the train
and all things shifted very,very close to the competition.
So, yeah, I mean in in thatsense quite mixed.
But then I can't ever forget,like what it felt to walk out as
the, the home nation in a homeCommonwealth Games.

(10:15):
Was really special, um,obviously it was David Beckham's
one, where he ran around withthe torch, so that's not bad
either, um, so yeah it was.
It was really special, likebeing kind of the last nation to
walk out and then you fastforward and I was so fortunate
enough to do that again as acoach in Birmingham like there's
nothing like that.
Um, and as much as we all talkabout results and medals and

(10:37):
obviously that's the world thatwe live in and we all want those
I think those moments are mostprobably as precious, if not
more so, because there's nowhereelse in the world where you can
feel that.
And so, yeah, the CommonwealthGames was amazing and I kind of
knew my role for the team.
I knew that I hadn'tnecessarily obviously gone in
there as a starting seven playerand it was important that I did

(10:59):
what I could to kind of supportthat team.
It was a really senior teamwith a lot of players that had
played together a long time.
So there were elements where Imost probably don't know if I
fully belonged at times, but interms of the experience it was
incredible and yeah, I'm very,very grateful to be able to look
back on that and later onmarried my husband, who happened
to have been at thoseCommonwealth Games with the
England Sevens of, with theEngland Sevens of which I didn't

(11:21):
meet him there, by the way, sojust in case.
But yeah, so it's quite nice wecan tell the children that mum
and dad were both at theManchester Commonwealth Games.

Sue Anstiss (11:29):
Oh, that's so lovely, isn't it?
And did you play in Pamela'sshirt, in her kit, because your
kit wasn't?
I feel like she was a guest onthe first series of the Game
Changers.
We're on the 19th series.
Now it's 19th series.
Now it's a long time ago, but Iremember her talking about the
player that came on to play forher had to, had to kind of
inherit her shirt, as it were.
Is that most probably?

Jess Thirlby (11:49):
yeah, I do remember giving Pam nearly all
of the kit at the end, because Ijust didn't feel like it was
mine to keep hold of um andshe'd really earned that
selection.
So I do remember I had a fewitems, but definitely gave most
of it to Pam.
It was Pam's kit, but mostprobably you know how these
things work you get fitted forkit, however long in advance,

(12:10):
and it's kit's always aninteresting topic, isn't it
around major competition.
So, yeah, most probably.
But that's flattering me, Ithink, because if I can fit into
Pam's kit and be half asathletic, then I'll take that
that's funny.

Sue Anstiss (12:23):
I remember her talking about it, but didn't
make the connection that thatwas you too fantastic.
Yeah, as you've mentioned, youplayed alongside some pretty
incredible players so PamelaCookie, but also Serena Guthrie,
leila Gusguth, who have alsobeen guests on the Game Changers
, and you're kind of excited to.
I feel like I've just had awhole team bath thing in terms
of my netballers on the podcast.

Jess Thirlby (12:43):
But how would you say those playing experiences
and playing with athletes likethat then has shaped your
approach to leadership andcoaching yeah, I think I mean
again, you're most probablydoing them a disservice because,
in particular, like Serena andLeila, are far younger than I
and most probably only know memore as a coach and a young
coach than most probably aplayer.

(13:04):
But I have had the privilege ofplaying with a huge number of
players that maybe at the startof their journey weren't
representing England and then,through our time at Team Bath
together, we were fortunate thatso many of us were able to pull
on the red dress.
And I think the things thatstick with me the most are in
those early days at team bath,like we were really just a bunch

(13:27):
of misfits that's how we usedto refer to ourselves like
nobody really knew what we weredoing, why we were doing it.
I think everyone was a bit kindof it's like anything that you
don't really understand, likeyou're a bit envious of it but
you don't really get whateveryone's doing.
And we were just a group ofmisfit players with you know
really good ambition who werekind of galvanized, I guess, by

(13:47):
the energy and passion of JedAli and Lynn, to think that
there was something in us as acollective and I always think
the the bit that stuck with memost, but both playing with
those players, but more so I'dsay, the environment was around,
the strength in the collectiveand it was never.
There was never an individualbigger than the team.
And I think for me in mycoaching today, like how you set

(14:11):
the environment up and gettingthe right people on the bus, the
right people around you, is themost important thing.
And whilst I appreciate insport, you know we have some
excellent trailblazers, you knowwe have some brilliant,
fantastic people with big egosand the sport needs that, I
think from my perspective, thething that I think is the glue
is always the environment andthe people, and never losing

(14:32):
sight, in particular team sport,that you just can't do it
without everybody.
And the joy that I found wasn'tsuccess on its own, it was
success alongside my peers andon behalf of something that felt
much bigger than just me, and Idon't really get any kind of
joy from anything unless I seejoy through those that I'm
working with.
So I think, yeah, the bits thatstuck with me most is just how

(14:56):
bold I think we most probablywere, and I don't think we felt
that at the time, but I think wewere quite brave actually and
quite bold to do something thathadn't really been done before,
sometimes to be criticised.
You know like those first fewfive years were not fun at Team
Bath in terms of results.
You know like we were.
I think Super Cup became fifth,sixth and fifth again out of

(15:17):
six teams and then managed tofinish third and thought we'd
won the World Cup.
Like it wasn't really theresults that made it special, it
was the journey to get thereand I think that's most probably
something that, yeah, I do holdon to quite dearly now, and
that sense of belonging like wewere from all over the country.
You know, to look at it, you'dmost probably question if we had

(15:39):
anything in common.
And yet we found this commonground which was to kind of
really pursue something and seeif we could just make a splash
for the sport, because I thinkthat's what Lynn was brilliant
at.
You know Lynn wasn't doing itfor herself, she was doing it to
make systematic change and forthe sport to be taken seriously.
And I think because she camefrom such a pedigree herself in

(16:01):
New Zealand and she was such astrong female leader that I
think you couldn't not beinspired by that and she went
about her work in some ways soquietly, but through us and
through that team bathexperience, it could have been
called anything, you know, itdidn't really matter.
It was just energising a groupto kind of really pursue
something and have that beliefthat anything was possible.

(16:24):
I think is yeah, is incrediblereally.

Sue Anstiss (16:27):
As a coach.
How did she come to be overhere from New Zealand as a kind
of former player?

Jess Thirlby (16:33):
I most probably don't know the ins and outs of
it, but I think Lynn and I thinkAli Sori and Jed were quite
insistent on obviously doingthis and doing it really well
and it was going to be the firstof its kind.
So yeah, I don't actually knowthe connections per se, but they
definitely, as I say, bigambition, very bold, not afraid
to do things, quite fearless,and how they go about it.

(16:54):
So I think they were alwaysgoing to kind of reach out to
high caliber coaching and youcouldn't really get much higher
than Lynn as a former St Fern'scaptain and coach, and a
successful one at that.
So you know, even when youlooked at the England coaches at
the time, you know we did gothrough a phase of obviously
having some overseas coaches,both from Australia Y Marama
Talman, who was the performancedirector as well.

(17:16):
So we had quite a stronginfluence from overseas and
quite rightly.
You know like they are numberone and were number one and two
in the world and have beendominating.
So rightly.
You know like they are numberone and were number one and two
in the world and have beendominating.
So I think for netball to betaken seriously here, I can
understand why we did do that.
I mean, it made a bit of asplash really, but I think
Lynn's character was justperfect for us.
You know, it's instilled in melike a humility that I think is

(17:39):
important to carry through withyou in the ups and the downs,
and I think Lynn epitomised thatto me as well.

Sue Anstiss (17:50):
And was there a moment when you were?

Jess Thirlby (17:51):
playing that you began to realise coaching was
for you as a next step.
Yeah, I don't know if I again Ifeel like all this
retrospective learning is great,but in the moment I'm not sure
if there was a singular moment,because I think what I believe
happened is Lynn saw thepotential in a lot of us through
our playing and whilst I trulybelieve that she was there first
and foremost to give all of us,including myself, the best

(18:11):
chance to achieve on the courtas a player, I think over time
she most probably got to know usand saw potential in other ways
, and I think there was mostprobably a whole group of us for
whom she felt could show somesigns of potential in coaching.
And I don't know if she wasever from the start I don't
think she would have beenexplicit about that but what she
did was she opened doors andencouraged us to try coaching in

(18:35):
different methods andenvironments whilst we were
still playing.
So, rather than see it as aeither or, we kind of just
started that coaching journeyalmost without realizing.
And I know there was a reallyimportant experience for me
where Lynn, alongside some othercolleagues, took a group of us
over to South Africa and we wentto Malawi and Botswana as well

(18:58):
and we were playing and coachingand, quite seriously as well,
we entered teams into a SouthAfrica age group tournament.
There'd be a couple of us whowere responsible for one team
bath group, another group,coaching and, quite seriously as
well, we entered teams into aSouth Africa age group
tournament.
There'd be a couple of us whowere responsible for one team
bath group, another group,another set of coaches, and then
we'd play on other parts ofthat tour and it was a steep
learning curve and when I lookback on that now, those
experiences weren't by accident.

(19:19):
Lynn knew exactly what she wasdoing by affording us those
opportunities that I just don'tthink we would have got anywhere
else through the way in whichshe thought so innovatively
about it and cared aboutdeveloping people.
So I don't know if there was amoment, but I do think I do owe
a lot to the fact that, becauseI started that coaching journey
whilst I was playing, I think itkind of just meant that I was a

(19:40):
little bit further along otherswho I think of, since you know,
generations above me.
There was quite a gap.
When I started coaching andstopped playing, I was 26.
And you know, most people usedto greet me with oh my God,
you're so young, like, why haveyou stopped playing?
Because there was such a gapbetween me and the next
generation of coaches at thattime at that level, and I think

(20:01):
since then absolutely othershave come through, you know,
like the Karen Atkinsons, theTracy Nevels, the Olivia Murphys
.
They were actually older thanme in terms of playing
generation but they came intocoaching most probably a little
bit after me.
Having started that coachingjourney early just meant that
I'd experienced some things theups and downs of coaching and
gone through all my coachingqualifications.

(20:22):
Really by my mid-20s I'd got mylevel three and was actively
pursuing experiences through theUK Sport Elite Coach Program.
I traveled overseas and spenttime in what are now some of the
SSN or ANZ clubs and placements, with Vicky Wilson at Firebirds
and the late Robin Broughton atSouthern Steel in New Zealand.
So I was kind of out therereally trying to understand what

(20:45):
real coaching looked like,because I think in our country
at the time it was quitesessional and it was quite
transactional and I had mentorsaround me that were really
challenging the thinking aroundwhat coaching really is and that
wasn't really coaching and soit was great for me to kind of

(21:06):
just be a few years ahead of thecurve in terms of getting out
and about and actuallyexperiencing different coaching
styles.

Sue Anstiss (21:10):
Really, and are you doing that with your players
now?
Are you identifying those thatyou think would do well in
coaching?
Is there an opportunity to dothat today?

Jess Thirlby (21:18):
Yeah, no, I think you're right.
I think I'm most probably aproduct of that and we're all a
product of those experiences,aren't we?
So I think I love to seepotential in people and try and
be part of their journey.
I I think it can be muchbroader than just coaching now,
which I think is a is a sign oflike um, where the sport is at.
So you know, we've seen so manyplayers and a lot of the people

(21:40):
that I played with at Bathobviously go into media or go
into management, and I think youknow, I guess in recent times,
in my role currently, serenawould be a great example, joe
Harton would be great examplesof players that I think have
potential to still hugelycontribute, and it doesn't just
have to be in Roses where I am,just have to be in roses where I

(22:02):
am.
But I think because of theirjourney and because of their
skill set, I see great potentialin them as people, not only
professionals.
But Jo's a great example ofcoaching.
She's a netball nerd like me,and it would be a waste of her
abilities and I do think youknow I saw something in Jo that
I think is she's curious aboutthe game and I think curiosity
is always a great strength in acoach and I think think for
Serena, her skill set is so muchbroader than people believe it

(22:25):
to be, because we're so in aweof what she was able to do on
the court.
You make these naturalconnections between therefore,
you can coach, and actuallysometimes I think we need to
pause and give those players, orformer players, more credit.
They're so capable.
I'm surrounded by players whoare just so skillful in so many
different ways.
So, yeah, if I can in any waysignpost or enable them to maybe

(22:47):
pursue something that theydon't believe in themselves,
then that's most probably what Ifeel I experienced.

Sue Anstiss (22:52):
And it is lovely as a fan, to see Joe and Serena
and see them on the bench withyou and others.
You know, I think it's lovelyto have not lost them from the
sport.
Also, it's always fantastic tosee yeah, absolutely and what
was it like you talked about?
I guess there was a bit of thattransition, but going from
being a teammate, a closeteammate with players, to then

(23:12):
being their coach, and obviouslyyou then went back to team bath
too yeah, it's tricky, is thequick answer.

Jess Thirlby (23:20):
But it was tricky and I remember having this
conversation with a few of mymentors at the time and I guess
you know most people will knowthat when I first started
coaching full time which is whatthe UK Sport Elite Coach
Program enabled me to do I gotasked actually by Ian Root who
was with Welsh Network andCeltic Dragons at the time.
By Ian Root who was with WelshNetwork and Celtic Dragons at
the time and he took a real leapof faith on me because I hadn't

(23:43):
coached at that level, I'dcoached at every other level
underneath that and there was anopening.
He called me and said look, doyou want to be the Celtic
Dragons head coach?
And I had quite a lot ofconflict because obviously Team
Bath was kind of like my lovereally.
But when I thought about mycoaching journey it really
helped accelerate some of thosequick learnings that I needed to

(24:04):
make if I was genuinely goingto pursue coaching seriously.
But at the same time it didallow slight departure between
the relationships that I'dformed as a, as a player and a
teammate, and then to bestarting to be seen as a coach.
So, yeah, I think my time awayat Celtic Dragons, for which I'm
really grateful to Ian andWalsh Netball really for taking

(24:25):
a leap of faith on me.
I absolutely loved it.
I think we'd finished bottom ofthe league the year before I
went and then I think wefinished second off the bottom,
which for me felt like anachievement, and I think we'd
won maybe three games where we'dwon none previously and in a
short space of time.
It was like a real eye-opener.
And that then meant when Ireturned to Team Bath as
assistant coach, I guess peoplethen at least knew that I was

(24:48):
taking coaching seriously and tokind of give up and retire from
playing.
To do so was quite a strongsign that I really did want to
become the best coach I could.
But it was tricky because we'reall on the minibus on the way
back from Blackpool winning ourfirst Super Cup with champagne
and breaking down.
And then you have to try andbuild up some credibility over

(25:09):
the next however many years,which I'm still continuing to
try and do, and you're justtrying to accelerate that.
So your relationshipsundoubtedly have to evolve.
But I also think you have toremain really authentic.
You can't flick a switch, and Ididn't want to.
You know these players meantthe world to me as friends, and

(25:29):
many of them are still very muchin my life.
So I think, if there's a mutualrespect there and everybody's
intent is coming from a reallygreat place, and because I was
surrounded by such incrediblewomen like Pam and Rach and
Sarah Bayman and Anna and BillyBowers, you know, like you can't
, it's quite unforgiving becausewe're all striving for
something pretty special withinour own right.

(25:51):
So I think, if there's respect,I think it can work out fine.
But I wasn't.
I was never a big.
You know, we've got some reallymemorable nights out when we
won Super League or Super Cup,but I was.
I was never out every night.
So I guess I just need to,needed to be a bit mindful of
when I did go out, like, whatrole am I playing here?
But I think, yeah, we forgaveourselves a bit and year after

(26:13):
year, generations move on, don'tthey so?
But it was.
It was tricky, for sure,because everyone likes to be
liked I think it's human natureso and everyone gets FOMO, you
know.
So you want to be involved ineverything and I've had to
really learn where to kind oflike draw those boundaries
between friend and coach, andand I think that was tricky most
probably for a good five or soyears, until which point the

(26:35):
players coming through didn'teven remember me as a player,
and then in lots of ways thatbecame much easier.

Sue Anstiss (26:44):
You took over as England head coach in 2019.
It was just a year after theteam's historic Commonwealth
Games gold.
That must have come with hugeexpectations for you, sort of
stepping into the role of beinghead coach of a team that had
had the highest ever level ofsuccess.

Jess Thirlby (26:58):
Yeah, and isn't that brilliant.
I think we've waited likeentirety, like what feels like
decades, for people to expectthe team to do well.
But of course I'm not naive.
You know like you win, the teamwin one gold and the world now
expects us to keep winning gold.
And it doesn't work like that,like sport, just doesn't work
like that.
And you will know more so thanI that there are so few teams

(27:21):
across the world, let aloneEnglish teams, that have been
able to do things back to back,in particular at a world level.
And I think that team thatachieved that, having been
fortunate enough to work with alot of them in their age groups
and in some specialist roles,they were really ripe for that
success and I'm really proud andpleased that they got that,
because that cohort of playerswere kind of 10 years in the

(27:42):
making.
So I think, yes, coming intothat role at that point do I
think there were a number ofpeople that would have liked to
have been England coach but mostprobably thought, no, thanks,
not right now.
Yeah, I do, because I don't.
I'm not sure everyone wanted tostep in at that time my
perspective or as I kind ofjourneyed through the unexpected

(28:04):
opportunity, I guess because Ihadn't realized that that
opportunity was going to comearound having stepped away from
Team Bath was.
I don't think I have the rightto kind of pick and choose the
time where you get the privilegeof putting your name in the hat
to lead your country, and sofor me me that wasn't a reason
to not go for it was a reason toabsolutely go for it and

(28:26):
actually be brave enough to havea go at trying to add that
incredible success that the teamhad had.
They've just thrown the sporton, on, you know, in the
spotlight, which comes with lotsof challenges but lots of huge
opportunity.
And I think that I'd workedclosely with the England pathway
for such a long time.
I felt like you know, I have agood grasp as to what the work

(28:51):
that's going to need to get done, and it was going to be about
transitioning more players andmore depth and quality within
that depth and some changeswithin the system in order that
that isn't going to be a one-off.
You know I was so about notwanting to be the equivalent.
You know talking about the 1966football team for the next 50
years, and I say that with greatrespect, but I don't want

(29:12):
netball to be talking about just2018.
I I wanted to contributewhichever way I can to increase
our chances of repeated,sustained and greater success,
and that was never going tohappen overnight.
But then I think that it's notmy right to kind of dampen that
from our fans.
I think it's really important toactually grab hold of that and

(29:33):
celebrate it and obviously helpbring people on the journey and
educate everyone as to the thehuge things that we still have
to work really hard at if we'regoing to be able to repeat that
again and more, because wehaven't yet done it at a World
Cup and arguably, you could saythat that's our pinnacle event.
So that's kind of, for me, whatreally drove me and my first

(29:54):
call with all the players wasyou know, let's go where no team
has gone before and let's dowhat no team has gone before and
let's do what no team has donebefore and let's really go all
out for that World Cup.
And obviously we made somereally great progress in that in
2023, but we've still got somuch to do and that's exciting
and, yeah, I think if you'regoing to try and do something

(30:14):
that's never been done, you'vegot to be bold and have a go
right, because you're not hereforever.

Sue Anstiss (30:25):
So let's just give it a best shot.
So, yeah, there was, there waspressure, but I guess it depends
on how you view future really.
And has the role as head coachbeen what you thought it would
be?
It's obviously the pinnacle ofcoaching as a netball coach, but
has it lived up to theexpectations that you had?
And I know you've been in thepathway so you'd seen youth
teams and you'd worked in thepathway before but is it what
you thought it would be?

Jess Thirlby (30:42):
um, yeah, I think I I most probably through some
of my other roles and I likemost probably the one at team of
earth.
I think I'd learned quitequickly how brutal the landscape
can be in a head coach role ina sport that is yet to be fully
professional, and the multiplehats that you're wearing, and
how quickly you have to developskills and knowledge and

(31:03):
expertise in areas that I don'tthink people realize that you
need.
It's quite a challenginglandscape to be, but it's well
worth it.
Is it what I expected?
I don't think there's been hugesurprises, but is it really
hard?
Yeah, it is, but that's okaybecause it's really worth it and
, I think, because the sport hasgrowth still to be made.

(31:23):
I think we're in a reallyexciting time for the sport, and
so to be in this role right now, with the evolution of the game
and the fact that we're takingour first steps into really
trying to professionalise thegame across the domestic
competition, for me is a realprivilege to be part of that
transformational change and itwon't happen overnight, but I

(31:44):
feel really lucky to be in thisrole where I can hopefully both
contribute and influence reallypositive change for the sport
and what kind of coach are you?

Sue Anstiss (31:53):
how would your players describe you?

Jess Thirlby (31:55):
oh gosh, how.
I don't know if how the playerswould describe me is the same
thing.
Is that me answering thatquestion?
But I mean my.
My approach is always to tryand instill like a real
limitless belief in players andto help them not just reach
potential but feed theirperception of what their
potential is.
I'm quite a collaborative coach, so I'm definitely I'm

(32:17):
certainly not a dictator.
I'm very curious.
I love to work with people, notat people, and so, yeah, if I
guess, if you were watching melike me at my best, like
bouncing off other coaches,other players.
I don't have to know it all,but I need to know how to get
the best out of each other and Ireally enjoy that space.
I think I'm often described byeither peers or colleagues as

(32:39):
very innovative.
I hate following, basically Ihate doing things that have
already been done, and so I'malways trying to look for kind
of that edge or a different wayto go about something.
So, yeah, really quitecollaborative.
I definitely am veryopen-minded.
I'm very reflective coach,quite analytical, but I wouldn't
not in terms of numbers, not inthat crude way, but just very,

(33:00):
very reflective.
I'm pretty demanding, butmostly demanding of myself
before others.
I am quite relentless.
I think that's what, inparticular, my colleagues would
most probably describe me as Iam quite relentless.
I think that's what, inparticular, my colleagues would
most probably describe me as Iam quite relentless because I'm
not happy to sit in the statusquo and I hate mediocrity.
So yeah, as soon as it feelslike we're doing that, then I
feel like I'm most probablyfailing.

(33:20):
So yeah, I'm always eyesforward and going for the next
thing.

Sue Anstiss (33:24):
How are you improving, how do you get better
as a coach at the level thatyou are?

Jess Thirlby (33:28):
Yeah, well, I think a lot of that comes down
to kind of like your values alittle bit and also like your
own processes that you put inplace.
I know that.
You know I look in the mirrorall the time and ask myself,
like what are the things that Icould be doing better?
I'm very open to learning, so Inever I see myself as a
lifelong learner, howevercliched that sounds.

(33:48):
And that doesn't mean that Idon't take accountability, I
don't take responsibility or Idon't feel qualified.
I do feel qualified but I thinkyou can do those concurrently
with learning and I think it'sreally important to have good
people around you who have gotyour best interests at heart.
And that critical friend From aprofessional perspective, you
know I really embrace, reallyembrace any high performance

(34:10):
coach development.
I encourage that in ourenvironment we have.
So I do.
You know I'm linking to leadersin sport.
I really enjoy conversationwhen I just, if you make time
and you sit around like-mindedpeople that that for me is
learning.

Sue Anstiss (34:25):
It doesn't always have to be really formalized
we've obviously seen the hugeimpact of high-profile female
athletes across other sports soLona Marr playing in the PWI in
rugby, megan Rapinoe in footballand Caitlin Clarke and Angel
Rees in women's basketball WNBAand they've really helped to
grow the game through theirpersonalities and the fan
engagement and we're obviouslytalking a lot about that in the

(34:47):
world of women's sport at themoment.
Do you feel that netball andEngland netball needs one or two
of those superstar players totranscend the sport?
Or you mentioned earlier,didn't you, that important part
of the collective and beingcohesive, which is, I know,
where rugby has always come, notwanting those kind of tall
poppies that stand out.
Where do you feel netball is inthat space?

Jess Thirlby (35:07):
Well, firstly, I think we have some incredible
characters already.
So I guess my quick challengeto that would be are we doing
enough to kind of celebratecharacters that I have the
privilege of working with everyweek?
And whether it's them as people, professionally, outside of
sport, they have such amazingstories to tell, and so I guess

(35:30):
I would encourage us, as a sport, to really celebrate that more
incredible role models in somany different ways, whether or
not we need one or two.
I mean, I feel like it would bea disservice, because I just
think we've got so many like itwould feel a shame that we kind
of need to to lean on theshoulders of just one athlete
when I think, as a sport, we'vegot so much more to shout about.

(35:51):
You know we've got Jay Clark,who's the most cat player ever
to play internationally.
You know you've got Fumi Fidoju, who you just can't ignore on a
netball court, but we want toknow her as a person as well,
and if people could see andexperience what I get to, I just
think the ripple effect wouldbe huge.
So I do agree that we need tobe even better in that space,

(36:16):
and I think we are improving.
I'm not big on social media,but I can sense that we are
celebrating the characters thatwe've got within the game.
I just think we need to keepdoing that and accelerate that
even more.
But undoubtedly, the figuresthat you mentioned before
they've been incredible.
I live in Bristol so I've seenand felt some of the impact of

(36:37):
the recruitment from BristolBears and hopefully for the
wider rugby community as well.
So I think if we can be smartlike that sport attainment is
spoken about all the time, isn'tit?
And I know with our new NSL 2.0, you know the whole fan
experience is really important.
We need to convert the millionsof people that watch the World
Cup in 2023 and the selloutstands in Birmingham in the

(37:01):
Commonwealth Games.
We need to convert those peopleto long standing fans of the
game who are going to help growit and invest in it.
So I don't think it's throughlack of followership.
I think it's more around, likeyou say, the profile and almost
kind of oversupplying potentialinvestors with a greater profile
of some of the brilliant rolemodels that we have in the game.

Sue Anstiss (37:23):
And you mentioned the Netball Super League 2.0
there, which is obviously reallyexciting that's launching this
year.
How do you see the, the nslteams developing their players
and that helping them, theengland squad in the future?

Jess Thirlby (37:38):
yeah, look it's.
I feel really passionate aboutthis.
As you know, I kind of sat onthe side of in that super league
space for such a long time andsaw relatively really good
growth of the game.
But we need to go there quicker.
But it needs to be done in away which is going to be
sustainable and I think therelationship is symbiotic.
You know, like the roses helpbe a shop window for the sport

(38:02):
and us being successful isreally important to grow the
game domestically, and domesticsuccess is really important for
me selfishly.
We need more players who areable to train day on day in
order to close the gap betweenus and Australia, who are number
one in the world, and if wewant more golds, we have to make
a difference there, and I don'tthink it's been through

(38:23):
anyone's fault.
I don't.
I think it's just where thesport's been and you know you
scratch your surface.
I know every head coach.
I know what it's like, becausethey'll be wearing a million
hats.
They're going to be thecommercial director, the finance
manager, the player agent, thehead coach.
Um, you can't be all thosethings and and do them
consistently well, nor should weexpect people to sustain that.

(38:46):
So I think if we can get theinfrastructure right in those
environments yes, we've gonedown to fewer teams in the hope
that that quality we can servicethose players more
appropriately so that they feelenabled to train, more
importantly, recover, andtherefore the quality of that
product will be more appealingfor the commercial entities and
the investors that we need tocome into the sport.

(39:08):
So, yeah, I think it'sdefinitely symbiotic and
hopefully that's the way inwhich we can continue to work
together, because one withoutthe other really can't be
successful, and I'm reallyexcited about, hopefully over
the next few years, how thatwill play out.

Sue Anstiss (39:24):
And I recently joined the London Mavericks on
the board, as you know, veryexciting one of the eight
franchises in the new NetballSuper League and it has been a
real eye-opener for me, seeingfrom a coach's perspective.
You've mentioned there reallythat balance of having these
professional players who arealso representing England and
wanting a cohesive, competitiveteam but knowing they need to be
out at camp or on tour and soon, and clearly you have

(39:48):
experienced an element of thatyourself in terms of managing
teams in the past.
Men's sport has been throughsome of those journeys and that
kind of challenges of learningthat I know rugby's recently
relaunched their newprofessional game partnership to
kind of overcome that thetugging of both sides, isn't it
almost the professional gameteams themselves and the
national side as well too?

(40:09):
So so I wonder, what lessons doyou feel women's sport and
obviously, as you mentioned,your husband was a professional
rugby player Are there lessonsthat the women's game can learn
from other men's sports in thatway?

Jess Thirlby (40:21):
Yeah, it's a really good question and I don't
know how helpful it would be tomake comparisons between
women's sport and men's sport,because I just feel like in lots
of ways we're so different.
You know, like women's sportand the growth of women's sport
in more recent times in thismodern era is significant and

(40:41):
yet when men's professional well, the professional era for men
in a lot of those sports is sucha long time ago, I'm not sure
how helpful it would be tocompare to the men's game.
Of course there's alwayslearnings to be had.
I think we might be better offas a community in women's sport
talking about how we're growingthe game in each of our
respective areas and what we'reseeing as being the greatest

(41:04):
successes and where we're havingbiggest impact.
You know like WSL will be goingthrough some of their
decision-making and even aroundyou know, having two leagues, no
relegation, like I thinkthere's most probably more
commonality to speak women towomen around growing our game
and the collective game thanthere is most probably with

(41:26):
making comparisons to men's game, for which have enjoyed
professionalization for such along time.
They're almost going throughiterations of that, as you say,
where they're having to pay moreattention to it.
So, yeah, I think it's justreally important that we capture
what works really well, becauseI think I often speak to people
about how netball when peoplecome to games we're really

(41:46):
accessible.
People and fans love howaccessible the players are and
you don't want to lose some ofthose things in the intent to
professionalise the game.
So I think it would be reallyhealthy for us to continue to
speak with each other actuallyaround why we're doing what
we've done.
We know we've chosen toobviously go to fewer teams in
Super League at this stage,hopefully in order to grow the

(42:09):
game and the quality and depthof it in years to come, whereas
WSL are taking differentdecisions for different
rationale, and I think thatmight be where it's more helpful
to have the conversation aroundprofessionalization.
But ultimately, the challenge,as you say, between club and
country no sport is immune tothat.
The challenge we've got iswe've also got a professional

(42:31):
domestic game overseas part ofthat picture and we play at
different times of the year, soit's not simply a club and
country issue.
In england we're dealing with alot of factors which don't
align and that means thatthere's always a degree of
tension.
But I also think we focus a loton the downside of those things

(42:51):
where I think there is alsohuge opportunity.
So, whilst it's not ideal atthe moment that we're trying to
accommodate an SSN competitionwindow with our own domestic
window, with an internationalwindow you know it is messy,
there's no doubt about it, it'sreally messy.
But then I think actually if wewe flip it and we see the

(43:11):
opportunity, you know, timespent, hopefully with roses
sends players back at a higherphysical level, technically and
tactically more prepared for theseason ahead with their clubs.
Because the demand of theinternational game is always
going to be different to whatthe club teams need to prepare
them for.
It's just inevitable.
We're ultimately trying toprepare a group of players to

(43:34):
play eight games in nine daysand win a gold on the last day
of the tournament.
The clubs aren't needing to dothat.
So there's always going to be aneed for us to have a programme
and an environment thatprepares them for those very
unique differences between theinternational game.
But that doesn't mean that wedon't equally benefit from the
week-on-week trainingenvironments of eight nsl clubs

(43:57):
who are going to becomeincreasingly professionalized.
Of course that's huge benefitto us.
So I think it's justunderstanding how, in the short
term?
Do we balance out those thingswhere it feels quite uh, there's
a tension between that and Iremember having this
conversation.
I was fortunate enough to meetwith Gareth and you know, the FA

(44:18):
not long ago and we're reallyall talking and dealing with the
same challenges.
I'm sure Serena Beekman has thesame challenges.
I work with man City women andI hear the same challenges there
.
So I think actually what wouldbe great, as if netball, can we
be the best at navigating thatchallenge, rather than sitting

(44:38):
in the same space and justalmost complaining about it,
like, let's work out what can wedo for our domestic game, what
does the domestic game do for us, and how can we complement
those environments for thegreater good of those athletes
and, ultimately, the sport?

Sue Anstiss (44:53):
You mentioned men and men's sport there.
What are your thoughts on men'snetball?
I know one of my co-owners, oneof the co-owners of London
Mavericks, is very keen on thegrowth of the men's game.
Feels that's the way that we'regoing to get men to take
netball more seriously, toinvest in netball if they begin
to know and understand it more.

Jess Thirlby (45:14):
Yeah, in my role I've embraced our national men's
team and men in our environmentthroughout my time in the role.
That's obviously quite specific.
That's around what they add toour training intensity and the
style by which we play.
It's been brilliant for us as aRoses team.
I would always hope that oursport is as inclusive as it can

(45:35):
be.
So I think not just men'snetball, but any player or
person should feel like netballhas a place and a space for them
.
I think it's difficult when westart talking about growing the
game with that parity for menand women, because I think we
shouldn't shy away from what Ibelieve one of our greatest
strengths is we'reunapologetically female focused

(45:56):
and actually that's somethingthat's quite unique to us over
women's rugby and women'sfootball and those other sports.
So I wouldn't want us to losesight of that in our efforts to
want to be seen and heard andinvested in.
But that doesn't mean that Iwouldn't want it to lose sight
of that in our efforts to wantto be seen and heard and
invested in.
But that doesn't mean that Iwouldn't want it to be inclusive
, that I don't think thatthere's room and space for the
men's game to grow.

(46:17):
I just think we're not quitethere yet.
I don't believe in terms of theinvestment in the women's game
of netball, which is femalefocused, and I think we should
shout about that and that's okay, and I think let's grow that
game to then benefit the growthmore broadly, which can and
should include men and children.

(46:38):
You know, disability, sportwithin netball, all of those
avenues should feel as thoughnetball is for them.

Sue Anstiss (46:47):
And sadly, across all sports, we don't see enough
women coaching at the highest,highest level.
So there are many barriers.
We could do another wholepodcast on that, couldn't we?
But clearly, balancing thedemands of family life and
caring is one of those, andyou've got three children, I
believe.
So how have you navigated thatbalance?
As national team coaching,you're travelling, you're away a
lot of time as well, too.

(47:08):
How do you balance that?

Jess Thirlby (47:10):
Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?
Because I've read somethingrecently and somebody already
told me about there's no suchthing as work-life balance.
It's work-life integration, andI've kind of like held on to
that, I think, to justify theamount of time that I am away.
But I think when you're luckyto do something that you're
really passionate about, it iskind of like there is no kind of

(47:31):
like black and white.
It's intertwined and I thinkthat's been really important for
me for obviously the childrento feel very much part of it and
included.
But it's definitely difficult,it's challenging.
I think any parent or mum orworking mum for a lot of people
I've spoken to there's alwaysthat element of guilt and I
think managing that's reallytricky.
But when I first fell pregnantwith Olivia so I have a

(47:52):
stepdaughter and then Olivia andGeorge and when I first fell
pregnant, a lot of my peers atthe time or colleagues were like
you're going to have to slowdown, you are going to have to
stop.
Well, I went into labor, havingbeen at the bath store cupboard
sorting out the balls andpumping them up the night before
till like 10pm.
So there wasn't really anyslowing down and I came back

(48:13):
quite quickly.
That's my choice, I think atthe time I flew out to South
Africa with an England under 21side and then with George I was
on a plane to Jamaica supportingthe national team.
And those were choices that Imade because I realised that it
makes me a better person topursue something that I'm really
passionate about and hopefullyhas made me a better parent.

(48:33):
But that doesn't mean that I'mnot riddled with guilt most days
around something that I can'tmake or I can't attend, or
missing my daughter's birthdaythe last three years because
I've been overseas.
It is quite stressful and I'mnot sure if our sport is yet set
up to really embrace parenthoodand motherhood, and I think

(48:55):
that makes it difficult becauseyou don't it's not a criticism
of anyone or anything, it's justyou don't always feel worthy of
asking for support.
Or you know my family can'ttravel with me to places, or you
know my family can't travelwith me to places.
It's impossible and we're justnot set up to accommodate that
like a you know, a cricketfamily would do, or we don't

(49:17):
have the money and I just don'tthink we've yet set ourselves up
.
I think we've had some reallylovely success stories over
recent years, you know, with anEbony coming to the Commonwealth
Games and Savannah coming withher, and obviously I come from a
place where I am a parent, sothat was important for me.
But I think there's a lot morethat we can do in that space,

(49:37):
because it is really tricky andit has felt more like it's an
either-or and it does feel likea big sacrifice.
But I'm not alone and I'm reallylucky that Rob understands
sport.
They're all very, very proud,you know, when they're at the
Games and they're in SouthAfrica watching the team win a
silver medal.
Of course it's worth it andit's a moment in time, isn't it?

(49:59):
But you can't also get thattime back with your children,
and I'm very cognizant of that.
You know I would have been inthis role, hopefully, for eight
years and that would have beenquite an important part of their
life.
But rather than see it as asacrifice, I'd like to think
that it's added something tothem as as children and
hopefully in their their adultlife to come.
Albeit, they've got a verytired mum most of the time.

Sue Anstiss (50:23):
It's interesting as well that piece that you said
around the, where we put thatsupport around being an
unapologetically female sport aswell too that there is perhaps
a chance to break new ground andto show what can be done there
in the future.

Jess Thirlby (50:37):
Yeah, definitely, and you know it's really
heartwarming.
When we were away, I think,playing Australia this year, you
know, george's teacher atschool offered to put it on TV
for him at break time andLibby's PE department are like
let's put it on for you, justcome and watch it in the office.
So, yeah, I think it's momentslike that.
That I think, okay, I feel likeI've got more permission to do

(51:00):
it, but I still think it's yeah,I still think it's tricky and,
as you say, female focused.
We should expect to providebetter support over time.
But I think that's coming and Ithink we've had some really
great examples and for a longtime, you know, netball didn't
have many stories to tell aroundplayers that had children and
come back to play, and we havehad some great pioneers do that

(51:23):
in recent years.
So, yeah, I'm very proud ofthose.

Sue Anstiss (51:26):
I love the picture of your kids going in to watch
their mum sat really seriouslyon the bench and getting
whatever from afar.

Jess Thirlby (51:33):
I've given up on trying to be more mindful of
what my facials look like in thegame.
There's no point.

Sue Anstiss (51:39):
There's just no point and finally, to wrap up,
you've obviously committed toanother World Cup cycle with the
Fatality Roses, which isamazing and fantastic for us as
fans, and players too.
But beyond that, where do yougo to from that, having been a
head coach of England?

Jess Thirlby (51:57):
Yeah, it's a really good question and I'm not
going to give you a verysatisfying answer, most probably
.
I'm so immersed in the next twoyears.
You know, two big competitions,thankfully a Commonwealth Games
scotland which is incredibleclose to home, and netball
really kind of leading the wayon team sport and we're super
grateful for that and then aworld cup, which I've been

(52:20):
thinking about since the dayafter the last one.
So I haven't really paid muchattention to career after that.
Right, you're wrongly, but, um,you know, I made my decision
when I left team bath with noparticular intention to move
straight into another role,albeit that I love coaching and
that played out okay.
So I'm gonna most probably takea bit of a leap of faith, stay

(52:42):
resolute and give my all to theteam currently for the next
couple of years in pursuit ofthat gold medal.
And then, yeah, I may be closerto the time I can think about
that question and come back toyou.
You can, you can interview meagain and say and, and I'll be
like, oh, but yeah, I'm just,I'm so fortunate and very
privileged to be in the role fora second cycle.

(53:03):
It's it's very rare if, if doneat all, I think so it's allowed
for real continuity and theplayers are so focused and
determined to go one better.
So, yeah, they deserve my fullattention on that.

Sue Anstiss (53:20):
How lovely to have the chance to speak to Jess at
such an exciting time for thegame in this country, if that
was your passion.
The other elite players whohave been guests on the podcast,
as I mentioned, include PamelaCookie, serena Guthrie and Leila
Gusguth, along with those nowleading the sport Sue Campbell,
jo Coates and Liz Nicol, if it'sfemale trailblazers in sport

(53:42):
that you're after.
There are, in fact, over 200episodes of the Game Changers
that are all free to listen toon podcast platforms or from our
website at fearlesswomencouk.
My guests have includedOlympians, paralympians and
World Champions, along withcoaches, entrepreneurs,
broadcasters, scientists,journalists and CEOs all women

(54:05):
who are changing the game insport.
As well as listening to all thepodcasts on the website, you
can also find out more about theWomen's Sport Collective, a
free, inclusive community forall women working in sport.
We now have over 10,000 membersacross the world, so please do
come and join us.
The whole of my book Game On theUnstoppable Rise of Women's

(54:27):
Sport is also free to listen toon the podcast.
Every episode of Series 13 isme reading a chapter of the book
.
Thanks once again to SportEngland for backing the Game
Changers and the Women's SportCollective through a National
Lottery Award, and to Sam Walkerat what Goes On Media, who does
such an incredible job as ourexecutive producer.

(54:49):
Thank you also to my lovelycolleague at Fearless Women,
kate Hannan.
You can find the Game Changerson all podcast platforms, so do
follow us now and you won't missout on future episodes.
Come and say hello on socialmedia, where you'll find me at
Sue Anstis, the Game Changers.

(55:11):
Fearless women in sport.