August 27, 2024 • 51 mins
As we look forward to the Paralympics at Paris 2024, we're sharing this previous episode with Jodie Ounsley, who will be presenting at the games, which was first released on May 30, 2023.
Today’s guest is Jodie Ounsley – a professional rugby player and Honorary President of UK Deaf Sport, who will also be a Gladiator in the new series that returns to the BBC later this year.
Jodie is a powerful role model for women and girls and talks openly about her deafness and how it’s impacted her life on and off the pitch.
She explains how she’s unintentionally been training for Gladiators all her life and how she’s preparing for the public profile that comes with becoming ‘Fury’ in the new series.
Jodie began her sporting career as a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu champion before representing the UK in athletics at the Deaf Olympics. Five times Coal Carrying Champion, she then moved on to rugby where she’s represented England at 7s and now plays for the Exeter Chiefs in the Premier 15s.
Alongside her success in sport, Jodie was awarded the Young Deaf Sports Personality of the Year and was also included in the BBC Woman’s Hour Power List 2023 which recognised 30 outstanding women in sport.
Jodie’s videos on TikTok, where she shares her life as a young woman living with hearing loss, have been viewed almost 5 million times.
Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.
Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media
A Fearless Women production
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sue Anstiss (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the Game Changers.
I'm Sue Anstiss, and this isthe podcast where you'll hear
from trailblazing women in sport.
What can we learn from theirjourneys as we explore some of
the key issues around equalityin sport and beyond.
I'd like to start with a bigthank you to our partners, sport
England, who support the GameChangers podcast through a
(00:27):
national lottery award.
My guest today is , aprofessional rugby player and
honorary president of UK DeafSport.
Jodie began her sporting careeras a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
champion before representing theUK in athletics at the Deaf
(00:49):
Olympics.
She then moved on to rugby,where she's represented England
at sevens and played for theExeter Chiefs in the Premier 15s
.
Alongside her success in sport,jodie was awarded the Young
(01:10):
Deaf Sports Personality of theYear and was also included in
the BBC Women's Hour Power List2023, which recognised 30
outstanding women in sport.
Jodie's videos on TikTok, whereshe shares her life as a young
woman living with hearing loss,have been viewed almost 5
million times, and I wouldrecommend you go and have a look
(01:31):
at those to understand more ofher life and all she's doing
Excitingly.
It's also just been announcedthat Jodie will be a gladiator
in the new series that returnsto the BBC later this year.
So, jodie, can I start withthat exciting news about
(01:52):
gladiators.
How are you feeling about it Tobe?
Jodie Ounsley (01:55):
honest, it's been a crazy ride.
Like I'm just still processingit.
To be honest, I'm honestly soexcited and the funny thing is,
like my parents and my family,gladiators has always been in
our life and we always jokesaying you'd be an amazing
gladiator or you've beentraining to be a gladiator.
So now this opportunity hascome up.
It's weird how it's come up inthis part of my life and now
(02:17):
having the opportunity to be agladiator, it's just bizarre.
Sue Anstiss (02:29):
I love that.
It's been a part of your lifebecause it was like the 80s and
90s, so you've obviously talkedabout it, you've been aware of
it, because not everybody ofyour generation would
necessarily have been so awareof it.
Jodie Ounsley (02:34):
Yeah, so I knew it was big sort of like in the
80s and 90s, but then it didcome back, was it?
I think I had two series andthen my dad was a contender on
it, so that's how I first sortof came about.
So I must have been about sevenor eight years old at this
point and I would watch him and,oh, I absolutely loved it.
(02:57):
I was just so into it and allthe training obviously coming
from like the World Cold,carrying Championships,
athletics, like fighting, andthen seeing gladiators it
training obviously coming fromlike the world cold, carrying
championships, athletics, likefighting, and then seeing
gladiators.
It was just all a mixture and Iabsolutely loved it.
So it was a lot of like do youknow, toys r us?
Yeah, went there, got like thedual, like the sticks, yeah, got
(03:19):
the outfit, got the helmet, gotmy padded shin pads, got on the
trampoline and I was fightingwith my dad.
And then we sort of got somerings set up in our garage and I
was just doing that, constantlyswinging back and forth.
There's videos and I honestlylook like a little monkey.
And then later on, because weused to have horses at the time
we converted our stable into aclimbing wall, so like there's a
(03:43):
climbing in gladiators.
So we're just climbing in thestable, swinging on the rings.
So, without even realizing, Ithink I have actually been
training all my life to be agladiator and I've just happened
to be a rugby player, butreally I think I'm made to be a
gladiator.
Sue Anstiss (03:58):
That's fabulous, that's fabulous.
My brother, tim, was acontender as well, I know.
So, having talking to you andknowing I was talking to you, I
went back and found on YouTubethe video I'll have to send you
the video of it of him.
We all went up to Birmingham towatch.
So, yeah, it's funny, isn't it,how it impacts people's lives.
It's just the most amazing.
It was an amazing event at thetime, so I'm so, so excited for
(04:20):
you this time around.
So what were the trials like?
What was the?
So what were the trials like?
What was the getting selected?
What were the physical trials?
Obviously, you'd you'd beentraining for the last decade.
Jodie Ounsley (04:29):
Yeah, so it was quite lucky.
Actually, they they'd beenreaching out to me asking if I
could come to the trials and Ijust couldn't make any of the
trials because obviously I waseither playing or I was training
.
I was like I can't, I can't dothis.
And then there just happened tobe one trial that landed in
like a rest week.
So I went and did the trial andit was grueling, it was like
(04:51):
savage, but yeah, so we did atrial and then went away and
sort of just waited really, andthen, um, literally got a call.
So a couple of emails back andforth just saying what the
opportunity would be, and thenhad a zoom call and then they
just they just told me basically, and I I generally had in my
head I thought, no, I don'tthink I've quite made it.
(05:12):
And the way, the way there wasspeaking on the zoom call was
like you know, when you say I'mlike x-factor or something where
they're like, and then they sayactually, yeah, you've, you've
got the role.
So I was honestly, I was soexcited and the thing is, on the
zoom call I was typical just mebeing a Yorkshire lass I wasn't
like crying or I was just sospeechless.
(05:34):
I literally said oh, I'm sochuffed, I said something like
that.
But um, yeah, it's just, it'scrazy, that's amazing, isn't?
Sue Anstiss (05:42):
it, and have you met any of the other gladiators?
I'm not asking you to give awaythe secrets.
It's not quite met any of theother gladiators.
I'm not asking you to give awaythe secrets.
It's not quite announced.
Have you met other gladiatorsyet at all?
Jodie Ounsley (05:49):
Well, I've actually met probably like three
or four and you'll actuallyyou'll know one.
I think you'll be prettyexcited who it is.
Because it was funny because wedidn't know we was at the trial
together and then obviously wedidn't know who got sort of
selected.
So then we turned up to likeour fittings or whatnot, and we
(06:12):
saw each other and we literallyscreamed like oh brilliant, like
we're going to have a greattime Such fun, such fun.
Sue Anstiss (06:18):
And do you know what your name is?
Yet Is that all to be revealed?
Jodie Ounsley (06:21):
Yeah, so I'm called Fury.
I love it, fury.
So obviously that they sort ofcame up with this name, because
obviously, when I feel like I'vegot different personalities, so
when I'm off the field in rugin the rugby world, I'm quite.
I'm quite a shy person.
I'm warm, trying, friendly,I'll do anything for anyone, but
(06:43):
as soon as I get on the field Iswitch, I'm just, I'm ready to
do some damage.
So it's actually, to be honest,fiora is me.
I feel like I don't have to bethis different type of person or
put on this character.
So Fiora is a very, you know,she's a very aggressive,
powerful and when she's incompetition she's out there to
(07:06):
absolutely, like I said, do somedamage.
She's not your friend, but assoon as she comes out of that
competition she's a much softerside, a very, you know, shows
sportmanship and very warmtowards the contenders.
So it's that contrast and Idon't think people will be
expecting that, because normallya gladiator sort of stays in
(07:27):
one, one part of the character.
So there's quite a contrastwith Fury, which is quite
exciting.
It's really interesting.
Sue Anstiss (07:34):
So years this is years ago in the 80s.
I worked for an agency at thetime that did uh, we were
working with Blockbuster videos,but we did lots of.
We had gladiators coming anddoing personal appearances and
the queues down the road forautographs and whatever like it
was just phenomenal, the kind ofprofile and drives.
Are you ready for that?
Almost what that might looklike in terms of recognition and
(07:56):
fame of Fury.
Jodie Ounsley (07:58):
A lot of people say you need to be prepared for
that, and I'm just thinking Idon't think I've processed that
and to me I'm.
You know, I'm a rugby playerand I happen to absolutely have
a big love for gladiators.
So for me to be a gladiator,maybe people might you know,
people might not even know me asa rugby player.
People might know me because atthe minute people either know
(08:20):
me as a rugby player or peopledon't know me as a player.
They probably know me, as youknow, an athlete who's deaf and
all the deaf awareness andteachers and parents.
So then there's this otheraspect.
Now I might be just known asfury and they might not know me
as anything else.
So that's quite what I'm stilltrying to wrap my head around.
But obviously I feel like I doneed to be prepared and more.
(08:42):
I think I need to be moreprepared for the grilling of my
teammates because, like, it'snever going to end.
I'm going to be training andit's all going to be fury, fury,
fury.
Sue Anstiss (08:50):
So, yeah, it's a lot to get there and have they
helped you, have they given yousupport to prepare you for the
profile that will come?
Jodie Ounsley (08:59):
yeah, no, they've been really good with that.
Actually, you know, they've hada psychologist on board you
know already good before that,before it's even started, just
to like sort of try and get yourhead around, like especially
around.
You know what social media islike these days, and obviously
in the previous gladiatorssocial media wouldn't have been
a huge presence, so that'sprobably a big role in this
(09:21):
theory.
So, yeah, they're being amazingwith that and I think they'll
continue that as we go into it.
Sue Anstiss (09:27):
Yeah, that's really reassuring to hear.
It's important, isn't it?
And how important do you thinkgladiators can be, or programmes
like gladiators, forcelebrating strong, powerful
women in our society?
Yeah, do you know what that?
Jodie Ounsley (09:40):
was one of the biggest things I was excited
about.
I was obviously excited aboutgladiators and you know, having
that opportunity, but in my headI was thinking this could be so
exciting whenever they had sucha big opportunity like this but
then also showcasing likestrong female athletes but not
just female athletes rugbyplayers to be specific.
(10:03):
So I'm just so excited aboutthat and, like you know, it's a
family show.
So many different people willbe watching.
You know whether it's kids,whether it's adults, and if they
see you know this individual asfury, you know being aggressive
, you know smashing peoplearound, you know being
competitive, but then alsoshowing that you can.
You can also be feminine, youcan also be friendly and just
(10:26):
showing the whole balance ofwhat you can be really.
And, yeah, I'm so, I'm.
That's what I'm most excitedabout just having that platform,
I suppose, and doing the best Ican be to also try and be a
role model, I suppose.
Yeah, I'm so excited for you.
Sue Anstiss (10:40):
I was like, can I keep it calm?
But I'm really excited for you.
And we saw, didn't we last yearhow Rose's appearance on
Strictly Come Dancing had suchan enormous impact on the deaf
community in the UK and she wenton to win.
And I mean that dance, thatsilent dance, for me was the
most powerful thing I've seenyou know on the show ever.
It was extraordinary.
(11:01):
So how did that dance affectyou and her involvement in a
show like that?
Jodie Ounsley (11:06):
like obviously I'm like 22 now, but even and
when I saw sort of Rose on theshow, I was like, oh, this is,
this is amazing.
Like you know someone who'sdeaf's on the show, someone's
you know who's having thatplatform and using their you
know their to try and be apositive change really.
And then when I saw that silentdance it, it gave me goosebumps
(11:27):
.
I just it was so simple but itfelt like I could something I
could really relate to andeveryone could relate to,
whether you're deaf or not.
It was just, it was brilliantand she had a massive role in
that.
Sue Anstiss (11:41):
And are you hoping that your presence on gladiators
could have a similar impact interms of just bringing people
into your world?
Jodie Ounsley (11:49):
yeah, no, I'd love that, um, obviously from
like the deaf, like awarenessside of things, but then also
like the women's sport, women's,you know, athletes.
I just think I'm so excitedabout that and I just really
want to try and use my platformto do that and just try and
inspire other people.
So, yeah, absolutely, I hope soBrilliant.
Sue Anstiss (12:09):
Are you happy to talk a little bit about your
deafness and growing up too?
I'm interested to explore that.
So what have your parentsshared with you about your
diagnosis from when you were ababy?
Jodie Ounsley (12:22):
Yeah, so to me, I've always known I've been
profoundly deaf from birth.
So there's obviously different,different levels of deafness.
But I'm basically at the bottom.
There's nothing like in bothears, there's just nothing there
like I'm talking.
You could, like we always say,you could literally get a gun or
something and fire a gun rightnext to my ear and I just, I
(12:42):
just want to hear it.
So, yeah, so profoundly deaf isthe bottom, which you can't
hear anything at any decibellevel.
So that was from a baby and thewhole reason.
Well, actually I found out inlockdown that I may have not
been born deaf.
Um, it was actually medicationthat made me lose my hearing
(13:03):
when I was a baby.
So obviously I was, I waspremature, so I was really ill
and you know I needed medicationto get better, otherwise you
know it could have been a lotworse.
So it was the case of they weregiving me medication but then
they didn't check how much, howmuch was in my system before
giving me another dose.
So they think that's a sideeffect of losing your hearing.
(13:23):
But to me, I've just been deafsince a baby and, like you know,
everyone's saying, well, howbad is that?
You've only just found that outand I'm like you know everyone
makes mistakes like you know,it's just one of those things,
really, and that's all I've everknown.
So then I went to get acochlear implant when I was 13
months old, and then from therethe whole journey of rehab,
(13:45):
speech therapy, every day, sortof through the week, until I
started school and went throughmainstream school rather than
sort of a deaf school.
Sue Anstiss (13:55):
Can you tell us about the cochlear implant and I
have followed some of yoursocial, but just to explain how
that works and what yourday-to-day level of hearing is
now or what that offers you,yeah, so like I think most
people think oh, if you have acochlear implant it's like a
quick fix, you've got sort ofnormal hearing.
Jodie Ounsley (14:14):
But it's.
It's nothing like that, it'sjust it's.
It's an amazing piece oftechnology, obviously.
So the way it works, it almost.
It basically bypasses soundpast my ears because they don't
work, and sends signals straightto, like, my brain and it sort
of interprets it as sound.
(14:35):
The science behind it I can't,I don't even know it myself.
It's bizarre.
It allows me to hear sounds andobviously probably hear very
different to what you hear.
But mostly I communicate withpeople by lip reading and just
the way you move your mouth andthe lip patterns and just years
of repetition and understandingthat.
But yeah, it's amazing.
(14:56):
It does allow me to hear somesound, but obviously when I take
it off, nothing.
Sue Anstiss (15:01):
And are cochlear implants constantly evolving and
developing and improving?
I imagine there must bedevelopments in that area.
Jodie Ounsley (15:11):
Yeah, they are sort of developing as we speak.
You normally have an upgradeafter maybe eight years or
something like that.
So I've probably had aboutthree different implants since
I've been growing up and theyhave improved, probably maybe
the sound or the direction ofsound.
So I've just got my new upgrade, probably at the start of the
(15:34):
year, um, and it basically justI've definitely noticed a slight
difference.
It sort of picks up directionof sound a little bit more
because obviously on this side Idon't have one, so anyone sat
on this side I just don't reallyhear what they're saying and
people, the amount of times whenI'm sat down at, you know,
tables or in school, peoplethought I was really rude, that
(15:54):
I was just like avoiding themand obviously I've got a bit of
a like resting bee face, um, sopeople just think I'm quite
arrogant or rude.
But really it's just I amurgent and I'm concentrating
that hard.
I just have a natural straightface that's so funny.
Sue Anstiss (16:12):
And you mentioned then school and going through
mainstream school.
So how was that for you andthat I just can.
I hardly imagine how hard thatthat must have been as a young.
All the young people go throughanyway, you know, in school
life it was.
Jodie Ounsley (16:27):
It was really difficult and I think that's the
whole reason why I wentstraight into sport.
I love sport because it wassomething I felt like I was good
at, it's something that Ienjoyed and, yeah, it was just
even the little things.
Obviously, I always had to, youknow, make sure I had to be sat
in front of the class so Icould see the teacher in the
mouth.
But the problem was I didn'thave confidence at all when I
(16:49):
was in school.
I was, I was shy, I was veryshy.
I'm quite shy now, but I thinkI've become a lot more confident
than I was in school.
But even just I didn't evenhave the confidence.
If I've missed something or if Iwas struggling in class, I
would never put my hand up andask the teacher what they said
or or make them aware that I'vemissed what they said or I was
struggling.
I would just keep it bottled upand just struggle and I would
(17:11):
miss out on a lot of things.
So I think when it came to PE,it was the best thing ever,
because it was like, oh, I don'treally need to, don't really
need to listen up here as such,I can just get out there, do
something I feel good at and itjust takes my mind off sort of
the struggles I was having inclass.
So I think that's the wholereason why I loved it so much
(17:34):
and I would.
I saw PE like it was theOlympic finals.
I took it too seriously.
I came in like my own clothes,like my muscle vest, my own
shorts and like running trainers, whilst everyone else was in
like you know PE kit.
So, um, yeah, I think I just Ijust put everything into the
sort of sport inside of itbecause I felt good at it.
Sue Anstiss (17:57):
Do you um think you would have thrived better in a
deaf school, or are you reallypleased that you went through
the mainstream system?
It must have been hard for yourparents to decide what's the
right route there that's abetter in a deaf school, or are
you really pleased that you wentthrough the mainstream system?
Jodie Ounsley (18:05):
it must have been hard for your parents to decide
what's the right route there,that's it everyone just has
different experience, everyonehas different opinions and I
think because I had my cochlearimplant, they heavily advised my
parents to go through thespeech therapy route and just
sort of the options, and my mumand dad were like back and forth
(18:26):
, they didn't know what to do,they didn't know what was right
for me, what was not right forme, people's opinions, and it
took them a lot of thinking andback and forth, the pros and
cons, but I think it would havejust been very different
experiences.
So in mainstream school Iheavily, you know, spoke spoken
language.
But if I was in a deaf school Imight have probably more relied
(18:49):
on BSL, british Sign Language,and just had a different group
of friends.
I probably mixed with a lotmore, you know, with the deaf
community.
But whereas school, atmainstream school, I was quite I
only remember being the onlydeaf person, really from what I
remember, so it's only since Igot into sport and you know, the
deaf olympics, and now with therugby, I'm a lot more involved
(19:11):
in the deaf community than Iever was in school I was very
separate from that.
Sue Anstiss (19:16):
Are you doing more with BSL?
I'd seen on some of your socialthat you were beginning to
learn.
I was following brother, mother, father, but is that something
you'd like to do more of oryou're doing more of?
Jodie Ounsley (19:26):
Yeah, yeah, so because obviously I focused on
spoken language in school.
I didn't really I didn't Idon't want to say I didn't have
the need to learn it, because Iobviously really wanted to learn
it but I didn't know any.
I wasn't aware around the deafcommunity at that point.
So it's only now, when I'mgoing into like schools and you
(19:51):
know, trying to be a role model,I wanted to like make a really
big effort of trying to learn it.
So, yeah, I'm I'm not fluent oranything like that I'm really
trying.
I know basics now and I'mactually I'm trying to sort of
involve it in gladiators as well.
So different parts of like mysignature moves and stuff like
that.
I've involved BSL as like aspart of my signature move as
Fury and then just little thingsof trying to interact with the
(20:12):
audience, like the little I loveyou sign and stuff like that.
So yeah, I'm trying to sort ofbring it more into my life now
and the gladiators and stuff.
Sue Anstiss (20:21):
Brilliant.
I love that.
I love that.
I heard a lovely story of youcopying your dad when you were
young and growing up with thecoal carrying uh championships,
which, first of all, is such aYorkshire pursuit, isn't it?
But can you tell us a littlebit more about that?
And there's some fabulous videoof you I've seen too yeah, so
it's it's.
Jodie Ounsley (20:42):
The thing is it's just a norm to us.
It's complete norm to us andeveryone else just thinks it's
bizarre and it is a Yorkshirething.
But it's literally like evennow, like every year, every
Easter Monday, we'll go andwatch it.
It's a family tradition.
But how it came about?
My dad actually started it andbasically the World Co-Carrying
Championships is from literallysack of coal on your shoulders
(21:04):
and it's from you run like amile and it's the first one to
the maypole.
And it started by two mates atthe pub who were drinking and
something like right, do youwant to race to the maypole with
sack of coal?
And that's how it came about.
And now it's this massivetradition and it's just it's
amazing how it's still going andit's even it's only getting
bigger as well.
More people come and it's sucha family thing.
(21:26):
So, yeah, anyway, at this pointI was around three years old.
My dad told me but I rememberit like it was yesterday and I
don't know how I can possiblyremember that.
It's so bizarre, but I justremember him running around
either in the garden.
I just remember in my head hewas just running around training
with something on his shoulders.
I didn't know what was on hisshoulders or why he was running
(21:46):
around in the garden, but I justthought it was brilliant.
And then he said that because wehad horses, like I said.
He just said I randomly pickedup this, like we had little
sacks of carrots and I put thelittle sacks of carrots on my
shoulders.
And then he just said I startedsprinting around the kitchen,
but then I didn't stop, I justkept sprinting around.
I started sprinting around thekitchen, but then I didn't stop,
(22:09):
I just kept sprinting around.
And then he always says in hishead that was like a moment
where I thought, wow, she'sprobably going to be involved in
sport or she's going to have alove for sport when she grows up
.
But yeah, so I've won it fivetimes.
Sue Anstiss (22:20):
I need to add that to your bio that you're five
times cold carry, Cold carrychampion.
And obviously you say sport issuch a part of your life, of
your family life, but you'vedone so much so track and field
and martial arts and differentmartial arts actually.
So tell us about that and Iguess why you found those, what
you loved about those sports.
(22:41):
First of all, yeah.
Jodie Ounsley (22:42):
So obviously I started with a cold race my
sporting career and thenathletics just appealed to me
and obviously at school you'realways doing athletics like
you're either doing sprints orsports day.
So I naturally went intorunning.
I always loved being like fastand racing my dad and stuff.
So, yeah, went into like 100metre sprints, 200 metre sprints
(23:04):
, because they have like deathchampionships and competitions.
So I did them all the way up,like when I was eight years old,
and all the way through schooland stuff.
And then I think that again, Ithink I was like a world
champion without like thosecompetitions.
It would just.
But I generally saw thosecompetitions like I was racing
in the Olympics.
It was unreal, like I rememberthe feeling I was like if I
(23:27):
didn't win I'd be going homecrying.
That's how serious I was.
So, yeah, I did athletics andthen I even did judo karate for
a little bit.
But then I came across BrazilianJiu-Jitsu because my dad's come
from that background.
So he started, you know, as aprofessional MMA fighter.
Oh was he?
Yeah, he's won multiple titles.
(23:48):
It's so humble and he neverspeaks about this.
So I have to like hype him upand tell people about this.
So, yeah, he was like an MMAfighter, you know, did brilliant
at that.
And then he moved intoBrazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
You know he's a black belt.
He's like world champion,european champion, british
champion.
Wow, I mean, in our garagethere's just a whole line of
(24:12):
medals that is won and yeah,like I said, it's just so humble
he doesn't speak about it, it'sjust, that's just yeah, that's
just his norm.
So, yeah, obviously, me trainingwith him in the garage and like
you know, that's when I pickedit up and then I started
competing in brazilian jiu-jitsu.
Can't say I won world champion,but I'm, I managed to win
british champion anyway.
But yeah, our saturday nightswere again, this was the norm to
(24:36):
us.
Our saturday nights werebecause we had like mats down in
the garage.
We made it into like awrestling thing alongside the
rings.
Um, so the wall, the climbingwall, yeah, yeah, so we'd fight
in the garage and it wouldalways end in tears because
obviously a little 12 year oldor whatever was not gonna be
(24:57):
like a world champion.
But I just had in my head thatI need to beat him.
I need to beat him and I neverdid and obviously it'll go.
It'll go really easy on me,obviously, but I just I was so
angry.
But anyway, we'll fight in thegarage before Britain's Got
Talent started.
So it will like have a fightand then we'll get in time to
have our like chicken nuggets.
It will like chicken nuggets mymum do like sort of chicken
(25:19):
nuggets and chips, and thenwe'll watch Britain's Got Talent
.
Sue Anstiss (25:21):
I love it.
I saw some video I might be oneof your TikToks of him with.
I might me with the Exetergirls where he's demonstrating
taking you down.
Their faces are like peopleshould watch it.
I should put a link in the shownotes.
But people are watching.
Your colleagues, your teammateswatching it.
I can't believe what's going onwith him.
Jodie Ounsley (25:41):
But the thing is obviously I just put it on my
social media just as a littlefunny thing, but it honestly
blew up and people were nothappy with it so I had to put
some context behind it becauseobviously those moves he was
doing in the video are allillegal in rugby.
Um, he was doing those movesbefore adapting it in rugby
(26:02):
situations so it was like oh,for example, this is what I
would do if I was in a fight andhe'll do it a demo on me, but
then it'll sort of adapt it toways how you can use wrestling
in contact areas in rugby.
Obviously the funniest partwere when he was like getting me
in arm locks and choking me, soI was like that's what I posted
.
But yeah, I had to put somecontext behind it.
(26:24):
But the girls it was obviouslyvery new to the girls but they
all loved it and the fight wasgreat.
Sue Anstiss (26:30):
I'm interviewing Molly McCann for this series too
.
So I wonder, in terms of MMA,has that been something that you
have considered as a part?
You were young in your career,you got a long way to go, but is
that something you mightconsider in the future?
Jodie Ounsley (26:45):
Yeah, I've honestly said I before I did
rugby, I really wanted to do MMA.
But the only issue around thatis getting around my implant,
because with rugby obviously I'mlucky that I can wear a scrum
cap and kind of protect it insome way, but in MMA you can't.
You can't wear like head guardsand stuff, so it's obviously
(27:05):
punches directly to the.
So that is really difficult toget around that and I think
that's a bit too far to try andpersuade my parents to let me do
.
But yeah, I generally alwayssaid, oh, I'd love to go in MMA,
I would honestly love it.
But then that's sort of when Icame across rugby and it's sort
of similar in some ways, thecontact.
Sue Anstiss (27:27):
And the gladiators is almost like a controlled MMA.
I wouldn't ever tell anyone inMMA I said that, but you know
it's taking similar traits ofthe different skills, isn't it
too?
You mentioned rugby and yourimplant and everything, so can
you talk a little bit about thatprocess and how that was for
your parents of your finding?
Jodie Ounsley (27:51):
rugby and then allowing you to go and play
something that is a, you know, avery physical contact sport
yeah well, the whole reason whyI started it later on because
obviously I would have lovedrugby when I was younger but
basically my mum and dad didn'tallow me to play rugby but not
from a not sort of from aperspective of saying, no, we
don't want you playing rugby.
It was purely because peoplewith cochlear implants get told
not to do contact sports becauseof the risks.
(28:13):
There's two risks.
So the one risk is like theactual sort of the processor
that sits on my ear that's justwhere the batteries are.
That could break, I suppose,but that can be replaced.
The bigger risk is becauseobviously I've got a magnet
under my skin and then this partis a magnet as well, so it just
, you know, just sticks to myhead.
(28:35):
But the risk is, if I got ahard enough impact straight
direct onto the magnet, then itcould like dislodge it and
obviously, as you can imagine,that's a lot of complications.
It could be very painful andeven having to have another
operation.
And I've actually heard peoplefrom like who I know who have,
you know, dislodged the magnetand had to have a reoperation,
(28:57):
but then they've had strokes andstuff.
So obviously they they advisepeople not to do contact sports.
Because why would you ifthere's those complications?
Sue Anstiss (29:05):
how on earth did you persuade your parents to let
you play then?
As a parent, as a mother, I'mthinking that's just not gonna
happen.
Jodie Ounsley (29:12):
I know so obviously, like it was just
always no, you're not playingrugby and they tried directing
me in different sports andthat's probably why I did so
many different sports, becausethey were just trying to keep me
away from all the contactsports.
But I wanted to do fighting andyou know anyway.
So you know, with the rugby,how it really came to surface
was my younger brother startedplaying and he, you know, I went
(29:35):
to watch him train.
I went to watch him like playgames and just seeing him train
and play, I was just like, oh,that is so unfair.
Do you know, when it just boilsyour blood that you can't do
something because someone'ssaying you can't do it?
Well, obviously I knew it wasfor the right reasons.
It wasn't just saying you can'tplay rugby because you're a
girl or something like that, itwas because of the medical
(29:55):
reasons.
So the more I watched him, themore I watched him like train
and play.
I just wanted to do it and Ithink my parents could see how
much I really wanted to do itand and they heard it, because
they're the most supportiveparents ever They've only ever
supported me, only ever, youknow, pushed me into sports, you
know, because it's somethingI'm good at.
So for them to see me how muchit was it was getting me down,
(30:17):
because I was like I feel like Icould be good at this and I
think they kind of gave in, tobe honest.
So my dad, he spent weeks beinghonest, just because that's his
person, he is.
He spent weeks reaching out tospecialists, like medical, like
doctors, and just saying whatare the risks and is there a
certain way we can get aroundthis?
So then you know, we can allowmy daughter to play rugby.
(30:38):
And obviously they came backand saying, look, no, you
shouldn't be doing this, likeyou shouldn't be doing contact
sports altogether.
I know she wants to play rugby,but it's just not you shouldn't
be doing it.
But my dad did not give in soanyway was like, well, is there
ways we can wear a like a paddedhelmet or something like that?
And then we came across a rugbyscrum cap.
It was like, oh, maybe we couldtry this.
(30:59):
And then he added extra paddingin it just for the first time
of doing it.
And it was like, right, okay,number one rule if you want to
play rugby or if you want totrain, you have to wear your
scrum cap or you're not doing it.
So that was so.
That's what we agreed on.
I thought, fine, yeah.
So he said, right, I'll let yougo down to a rugby session,
thinking that I'd just do thissession, get out of my system,
(31:20):
then just get bored of it and goon to a different sport.
So I was absolutely ecstaticthat he let me.
So anyway, we went down to thelocal sort of rugby club, which
was Sandal, up in Wakefield.
We went into their car park and, I kid you not, I was that
nervous.
I was in.
I was an absolute mess.
I was like I even turned aroundto my dad.
(31:42):
I said, dad, I don't want to dothis anymore.
Can we just go home now, in thebest way possible?
He turned around.
He said I'm not being funny,but like all this nagging, like
trying to get us to, you know,allow you to play rugby now you
want to go home.
And then he obviously signed up.
He was like look, julie, I knowyou're nervous, but you know
(32:03):
you'll.
You know you'll enjoy it.
You know you'll meet new people, you meet the girls, you'll get
to learn, you know the laws ofthe game.
Because I didn't know anythingabout rugby at this point.
I've just sort of watched itand it was like you'll feel good
afterwards that you've done itand you'll be happy that you've
done it.
So, to be honest, if he hadn'tgiven me that little pep talk, I
would have been very like no, Idon't want to do it anymore,
let's just go home, I'm toonervous how old were you?
Sue Anstiss (32:25):
how old were you then?
Jodie Ounsley (32:26):
I remember I was like 15 that's how shy I was.
I was so shy I just didn't haveconfidence, um, anyway.
So it was a whole thought ofmeeting new people and then also
the thought of I don't knowanything about rugby, like I
don't know the laws.
So I think it was just a wholemixture.
Anyway, I saw a couple of girlswalking past and I thought,
right, I'll get out the car andquickly go over.
(32:47):
And then, um, yeah, they wereamazing.
Like as soon as I sort ofwalked up to the fields, they
were just all welcoming, they'rejust like.
They came up to me and was likewho are you?
Like I'm so and so.
And then the coaches were thesame, and because my dad spoke
to the coach on the phonepreviously before going to the
club, just to explain that I'mdeaf and stuff, so it wasn't
like a shock, you know.
(33:08):
So they were prepared and stuff.
But yeah, they were amazing.
And then, even if I didn't knowanything about rugby, they were
just.
I even remember like, at thispoint I didn't even know you had
to like pass the ball backwardsliterally.
So they were just amazing, likethey really broke it down and
just made me feel comfortable.
Um, and then, I think literallythe next weekend or so, he said,
(33:28):
oh, do you want to be on thebench and play for us?
I was like what?
And oh, I went on and I trippedover my own shoelaces.
How embarrassing.
I tripped over my own shoelaces, fell back, I thought what am I
doing here?
Got up and then I just rememberthe ball popping up to me and
honestly, I just caught the balland I just ran for my life and
(33:48):
then I scored and I remember mydad was under there like sticks
and my granddad, and they werejust so happy for me and I think
from that moment I was like,yeah, I think I'm going to enjoy
rugby and that's how it fromthere.
So, yeah, I didn't forget aboutit and now we're here and I've
seen that footage.
Sue Anstiss (34:07):
That video is the footage there, that first try.
It is amazing.
So you obviously knew passbackwards and the ruck and to
just run when you got the ballbecause that was, you know.
It's just so powerful to see.
It's lovely to hear howinclusive and welcoming the club
was, you know, down inWakefield, but have you found
that generally throughout rugby?
And obviously you've, will youknow you've gone on to progress,
(34:34):
uh, in terms of yourrepresentative stuff, but did
you find every level rugby hasbeen inclusive for you.
Jodie Ounsley (34:37):
Yeah, like, absolutely obviously, like from
sort of the deafness side ofthings, but even just just being
one of those sports like like,as people keep saying, you can
literally come from anybackground, any body, shape,
anything Like it does not matter.
Once you get into the rugbyfield, people just bring you in
and that's what I love aboutrugby, like you're just a family
(34:58):
and people, regardless who youare, they just accept you and
you just all have a love forrugby, you all have a love for
sport.
But then in terms of like mydeafness, I think rugby has 100%
like changed me as a person,like my confidence and
everything.
And like I said when I wasgoing through school, I didn't,
(35:18):
I didn't talk about it, I didn'tlike I said I never even asked
for like help or anything likethat and I'll try and I wouldn't
hide it.
But I'd like with my processornow it's white.
I would have never had a whiteone at school, I would have
probably tucked it under my hairand stuff like that.
And it was only when I wentinto the England 7 setup when it
completely changed.
(35:40):
So it's funny because, like,obviously, when I was going into
the program, like the coachesand players.
They were obviously aware thatI was like a deaf person, a deaf
like player going into theprogram, but like they've never
experienced that, especially inan elite sort of performance,
and I think it was all new tothem.
So they were obviously awarebefore I went in and I remember
(36:02):
my first day again, I was in amess but I actually went, I
actually went, I actually went,I went in.
Anyway, they were all sowelcoming, brought me in like
their own, but I remember therewas such a big elephant in the
room, not one person I couldsense they didn't dare ask about
my deafness or anything likethat.
(36:23):
I think people in generalthey're just scared of saying
the wrong thing or they feellike they can't ask me things.
But it's the opposite and itjust happened that the coaches
said, right, as like a teambonding session, we want you to
do a little presentation onyourselves, just to explain your
journey, who you are, yourrugby career, and get up in
(36:44):
front of the team and just dothis presentation.
So obviously just doing apresentation was like absolutely
terrifying for me because it'syou know, these are all players
I've been watching on the tv,like you know, in the olympics,
on the world series.
And now I'm stood here on aboutpresentation about myself and
like it was.
It was like Abby Brown beforeme and she was telling a whole
(37:05):
career and and then it was likeme next.
I thought how am I gonnacompare to that anyway?
So I got off and I thought thatwould be a great opportunity to
actually speak about mydeafness, which, again, I
wouldn't really do much of that.
So I got all pictures from megrowing up and like my levels of
deafness and how I got intorugby and whatnot.
And I kid you not, from thatmoment on, like when we finished
(37:26):
and stuff, like the girls werejust asking me questions and it
was just like they were.
It was fine, there's nothingawkward about it, nothing like
they were nervous, I thinkbecause I just spoke so openly
about it.
They felt like comfortable toask me questions and they went
above and beyond the team andthe staff just to try and make
it as easy as possible being onthe pitch and stuff.
(37:49):
For example, like they wouldmic me up and we had like a
drone filming our trainingsessions.
So basically they mic'd me upand there were like another guy
filming me on a different camera, just my movements.
So I was mic'd up to thisseparate camera and then
basically we did that to seewhat the picture was, what
(38:12):
everyone else was doing, butthen to also see what I'm
hearing or not hearing in thatsituation.
So it was like amazing to seewhat like players could be
hearing in that situation orseeing.
But then I'm in that samesituation of what I'm maybe not
hearing and basically how we canmake it easier with
communication and stuff.
And look back at footage.
(38:32):
It was amazing, like it shockedme, how much the players and
staff generally wanted to helpme and make it easier on the
field and stuff.
So from that moment on thatjust grew my confidence and be
more open about in like this iswhere I struggle, this is what
could help, and things like that.
So it was pretty special that'samazing, isn't it?
Sue Anstiss (38:51):
and I think it's such an important message of the
you're feeling confident toshare to enable people to feel
braver to ask the questions.
Because it's exactly that Ithink I'm.
I feel like exactly the same.
It's almost like a bit I don'twant to make you uncomfortable,
you don't want to ask things,but you, but people want to know
.
Then they can you behavedifferently?
And you've obviously moved onthen to do so much on social
(39:13):
media and your TikTok and Ithink 5 million views of your
videos, of 130,000 peoplefollowing you Did that come from
?
That?
Almost You're beginning toshare more generally with people
your story around thechallenges you face, but also
explaining to people what itmeans to you in your day-to-day
life.
Yeah, like.
Jodie Ounsley (39:34):
That's the whole reason why I think I think it
was because I generally saw theimpact on myself more more than
anything like just by meactually speaking openly about
it built my confidence, as wellas, obviously, other like ways
and awareness for other peopleto understand better.
Because that's all I found ispeople just generally have a bit
of a lack of awareness andthat's all.
(39:55):
It is like people not beingarrogant or anything like that
they just probably don't know,or you know, how to act, or they
just don't like, especially ifyou haven't met a deaf person
before you just you just have noidea and that's natural.
I think it would literally,literally probably just become
out of lockdown and I thought,oh right, this was.
I was not on TikTok, everyonewere dancing on TikTok.
So I was like, oh, so Idownloaded it and me and mum
(40:17):
tried to do this TikTok dance,right, and obviously we were
awful.
But then I actually remembersort of seeing other videos that
were nothing to do with dancing.
So I thought, all right, dopeople actually use this for
business and stuff and, like youknow different things?
So I thought, all right, maybeI could do a video just on a
deaf awareness video and justsee how it is.
And I think I literally put onevideo on of me just taking my
(40:40):
implant off, saying, oh, this ismy cochlear implant.
If I take it off, you know, Ican't hear any sound blah, blah,
blah, and that all it was andthat completely blew up and the
feedback I got from it wasamazing just sort of people
asking the questions and feelinglike they can ask me the
questions and just like mostlyparents with young deaf kids
saying, oh, this is so good toyou know, have this information.
(41:03):
You know, because most of mostof my following are actually
either teachers or parents whowith kids who are like literally
babies and they're decidingwhether to have a cochlear
implant, or they don't know whatyour life can look like with a
cochlear implant.
And me just doing these littlevideos is giving well, as in
their words, giving themreassurance and sort of just
(41:25):
giving them that confidence togo with that decision and stuff.
So, yeah, like the more I'vedone it and the more feedback
I've seen from people, it's it'sonly done wonders for myself,
but most importantly, I justwant to help other people.
So it's, it's crazy, but yeah,just what a little video can do.
Sue Anstiss (41:41):
And yeah, and how does that feel?
How do you feel to be gettingthat feedback and knowing you're
having, I guess, both for thedeaf community but just more
broadly in society, to beraising awareness to?
Jodie Ounsley (41:53):
I mean, to me it's bizarre, like I still don't
get my head around it.
To me I'm just, you know, in myhead I'm a girl who loves rugby
, I'm playing rugby.
I'm a girl who's, you know, alittle bit deaf, but you know, I
just like play rugby and I havea love for that.
But then there's also a bigpart of me that I've just I've
always wanted to help people, nomatter what the situation.
I just love to help people, Ilove to be a good person, I love
(42:15):
just being just spread positiveenergy, basically, um, so in a
way that I can do that it's.
It's bizarre because I feellike, and just to feedback, even
the other day I got, um, it wasit.
I literally nearly startedcrying.
This is how much it touched me.
So last year when the Sevensgirls had an opportunity to play
(42:36):
at Twickenham, we played ourgames and then we sort of went
round Twickenham and obviouslysigning autographs and stuff,
and then there was a young girland a young boy who were
shouting me or something andthey both had cochlear implants
and then they were sort ofsaying, oh, it's so good that
you've got a cochlear implant,we're matching, it's really cool
that we're matching, and, oh,it really touched my heart.
(42:58):
I was, honestly, I was like anemotional wreck anyway.
So we were just talking and Iwas like, oh, do you play rugby?
And she was like, no, I don'tplay rugby because of my
cochlear implant.
And I was like, all right, well, I've been playing.
Obviously, if you get like alittle scrum cap, we can be
matching with the scrum caps aswell.
So, anyway, she were lovely,she's absolutely sweetheart.
And then, um left and thenliterally, so a year on,
(43:19):
literally, yes, well, like twodays ago or something, I got a
message from the parents, fromher dad, showing a picture of us
together, because we had apicture together when I was
signing an autograph, and hesaid something like oh, I hope
you remember this photo.
This is my daughter, she's nowplaying rugby and she's
absolutely loving every minute.
And then he sent me the photoof her playing rugby and she
(43:42):
looked savage and she had likethis multi-coloured scrum cap
and honestly, I got goosebumpswhen I watched it because I just
thought that's crazy.
I'm just doing what I lovedoing.
I'm just doing rugby, I'm justtrying to be a good person.
And then when I get messageslike that, I just can't get my
head around it and it just makesyour heart warm.
(44:03):
That's all I can say.
Yeah, absolutely.
Sue Anstiss (44:06):
Absolutely, and from all the content you share.
I love your parents from allthe content you share.
I love your parents from allthe content you share, but it's
really clear that that supportand their support has been so
important to you.
So how did they react when theyheard that you were listed in
the BBC Women's Hour power listfor the women in sport?
Jodie Ounsley (44:23):
yeah, they were.
So they were so chuffed for melike they are literally my
biggest, biggest supporters ever, like I generally think without
my parents I wouldn't be theperson I am today.
100%, they've done nothing butsupport me.
But not just support me Because, obviously, with all my
confidence and struggling withmy confidence and quite a lot of
(44:44):
self-doubt and stuff like that,they have always been like no,
jodie, you know, snap out ofthat, you're brilliant, you can
do it.
And just constantly having myback and yeah.
So, um, they're amazing.
And even now they're just likemy mom is literally my best
friend and I'm not even, I'm noteven ashamed of admitting it.
We're just like everyone thinks, we're sisters, just with how
we are.
(45:05):
So, um, yeah, they're brilliant,like my dad, obviously, through
, you know, growing up, being inall the sport, you know, doing
the climbing wall for me,setting up rings, just all these
things.
It's just because he's abrilliant parent, he's a
brilliant person and just wantsto support me.
And then, obviously, my mum shewas the one who took me to
rehab and speech therapy everyday during the week and she even
(45:26):
had to step away from her jobjust to spend more time with me
so she could do, you know,speech therapy with me and more
repetition, because obviouslythe more repetition the better
your speech and just things likethat.
And you know she's such a hardworking person, she's like she's
got such a pure heart and thekindest person ever, and I
literally always think if I'mlike the half the person my mum
(45:48):
is, then I'm all right.
So that's all I think anyway.
Sue Anstiss (45:52):
Oh, that's so lovely, so lovely to hear.
You're honorary president of UKDeaf Sport and patron of the
Elizabeth Foundation, a UKcharity for young deaf children.
So why are those roles soimportant to you as well?
Because that's a lot to take onwith everything else that
you're doing too.
Jodie Ounsley (46:10):
Well, with the Elizabeth Foundation, it's such
like something so close to myheart, because obviously that's
the charity where obviously I'msaying all about the speech,
vaping, the rehab, that's whereI did all the speech.
So I started with them when Iwas I was about three months old
, so even before I got mycochlear implant and they were
amazing, like absolutely amazingpeople, what they do and just
(46:33):
not even just for myself, andjust what they do for the
parents, you know, giving themthe support, giving them, you
know just the reassurance andjust feel like they're not on
their own in the situation andstuff like that.
So, yeah, then they basicallyasked me to be patron and I was
like, obviously, who would turnthat down?
So, um, it just meant so muchand, yeah, they're just
brilliant.
(46:53):
And the same with UK deaf sportlike obviously going through the
deaf olympics and just sport ingeneral.
I'm so passionate about notjust like encouraging, you know,
deaf kids getting into rugby,but sport in general.
So, yeah, two things I'm verypassionate about.
So obviously it's quitechallenging to juggle it all,
(47:14):
but obviously when you'repassionate about something, you
know it's something you justwant to do.
Sue Anstiss (47:19):
Yeah, it's lovely to hear your kind of passion and
enthusiasm for that whole spacetoo.
Finally, I'd be reallyinterested to know I know you've
talked about kind of deafnessas your superpower and you kind
of do feel it's something thathas enabled you to go and do
other things.
So how do you feel it has madeyou stronger as an individual,
as an athlete and as a as aperson too?
Jodie Ounsley (47:39):
I have said it's like a superpower, but I don't
want people to think, oh, it's,it's all amazing and it's.
It's the way I see it as asuperpower is.
You know, it is a dailystruggle, it is challenging on a
daily basis, but it's allowedme to think outside the box and,
you know, adapt and think ofdifferent ways to get things
(48:01):
done.
So in some ways, like becauseI'm deaf, I'm a lot more visual.
So on the rugby field, that'samazing, because coaches just
want you to be more visual andsee the space.
The rugby field, that's amazing, because coaches just want you
to be more visual and see thespace.
So I think it's allowed me to,you know, just adapt and think
of solutions and work harder insome aspects, I suppose, and
just, you know, be moreconfident, be more outgoing with
(48:24):
people asking for help and justall these things.
If I wasn't deaf, I don't thinkI would have been the person I
am today.
So, yeah, in that context,that's why I think it's a
superpower and it's obviouslyyou're different, that's all I'm
saying.
Sue Anstiss (48:36):
But that's not a bad thing, that's a it's a good
thing and you've got to embraceit, I suppose and in terms of
what we can all do to betterunderstand your world and make
sport more inclusive foreveryone.
If you had to leave with somekind of tips or advice of what
you'd like to see from yourexperience, what would that be?
Jodie Ounsley (48:55):
I literally would just say don't be afraid to ask
.
Like if someone came up to meand if they said something like,
oh, is there any way we canmake things a bit easier on the
field, or something like that,or is there anything you prefer
just to make it that bit easier,I think, oh, that's, that's
really good of them to ask that,because normally people like I
said are too scared to even sayanything or just avoid it.
(49:16):
I just advise people to be moreopen-minded and not afraid,
just to speak about it, becausethat's what we need to do just
speak about it.
Sue Anstiss (49:30):
What an amazing woman jodie is.
I can't wait to see her ongladiators later this year.
Head over to fearlesswomencoukto find previous episodes, where
I've spoken to other incrediblerugby legends, including sarah
(49:50):
Hunter, maggie Alfonsi, sue Day,shauna Brown, emma Mitchell and
Karen Finlay.
As well as listening to all thepodcasts on the website, you
can also find out more about theWomen's Sport Collective, a
free, inclusive community forall women working in sport.
You can sign up for theFearless Women newsletter, which
(50:14):
highlights the developments inglobal women's sport, and
there's more about my book GameOn the Unstoppable Rise of
Women's Sport.
Thanks again to Sport Englandfor backing the game changers
with the National Lottery Award,and to Sam Walker at what Goes
On Media, who does such anincredible job as our executive
(50:37):
producer.
The Game Changers is free tolisten to and you can find it on
all podcast platforms.
Do follow us or subscribe tomake sure you don't miss out on
future episodes, and if you havea moment to leave a review or a
rating, that would be great, asit really helps us to reach new
(51:00):
audiences.
Do come and say hello on socialmedia, or you'll find me on
Instagram, linkedin and Twitterat Sue Anstis.
The Game Changers Fearlesswomen in sport.
Hello and welcome to the Game Changers.
I'm Sue Anstiss, and this isthe podcast where you'll hear
from trailblazing women in sport.
What can we learn from theirjourneys as we explore some of
the key issues around equalityin sport and beyond.
I'd like to start with a bigthank you to our partners, sport
England, who support the GameChangers podcast through a
(00:27):
national lottery award.
My guest today is , aprofessional rugby player and
honorary president of UK DeafSport.
Jodie began her sporting careeras a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
champion before representing theUK in athletics at the Deaf
(00:49):
Olympics.
She then moved on to rugby,where she's represented England
at sevens and played for theExeter Chiefs in the Premier 15s
.
Alongside her success in sport,jodie was awarded the Young
(01:10):
Deaf Sports Personality of theYear and was also included in
the BBC Women's Hour Power List2023, which recognised 30
outstanding women in sport.
Jodie's videos on TikTok, whereshe shares her life as a young
woman living with hearing loss,have been viewed almost 5
million times, and I wouldrecommend you go and have a look
(01:31):
at those to understand more ofher life and all she's doing
Excitingly.
It's also just been announcedthat Jodie will be a gladiator
in the new series that returnsto the BBC later this year.
So, jodie, can I start withthat exciting news about
(01:52):
gladiators.
How are you feeling about it Tobe?
Jodie Ounsley (01:55):
honest, it's been a crazy ride.
Like I'm just still processingit.
To be honest, I'm honestly soexcited and the funny thing is,
like my parents and my family,gladiators has always been in
our life and we always jokesaying you'd be an amazing
gladiator or you've beentraining to be a gladiator.
So now this opportunity hascome up.
It's weird how it's come up inthis part of my life and now
(02:17):
having the opportunity to be agladiator, it's just bizarre.
Sue Anstiss (02:29):
I love that.
It's been a part of your lifebecause it was like the 80s and
90s, so you've obviously talkedabout it, you've been aware of
it, because not everybody ofyour generation would
necessarily have been so awareof it.
Jodie Ounsley (02:34):
Yeah, so I knew it was big sort of like in the
80s and 90s, but then it didcome back, was it?
I think I had two series andthen my dad was a contender on
it, so that's how I first sortof came about.
So I must have been about sevenor eight years old at this
point and I would watch him and,oh, I absolutely loved it.
(02:57):
I was just so into it and allthe training obviously coming
from like the World Cold,carrying Championships,
athletics, like fighting, andthen seeing gladiators it
training obviously coming fromlike the world cold, carrying
championships, athletics, likefighting, and then seeing
gladiators.
It was just all a mixture and Iabsolutely loved it.
So it was a lot of like do youknow, toys r us?
Yeah, went there, got like thedual, like the sticks, yeah, got
(03:19):
the outfit, got the helmet, gotmy padded shin pads, got on the
trampoline and I was fightingwith my dad.
And then we sort of got somerings set up in our garage and I
was just doing that, constantlyswinging back and forth.
There's videos and I honestlylook like a little monkey.
And then later on, because weused to have horses at the time
we converted our stable into aclimbing wall, so like there's a
(03:43):
climbing in gladiators.
So we're just climbing in thestable, swinging on the rings.
So, without even realizing, Ithink I have actually been
training all my life to be agladiator and I've just happened
to be a rugby player, butreally I think I'm made to be a
gladiator.
Sue Anstiss (03:58):
That's fabulous, that's fabulous.
My brother, tim, was acontender as well, I know.
So, having talking to you andknowing I was talking to you, I
went back and found on YouTubethe video I'll have to send you
the video of it of him.
We all went up to Birmingham towatch.
So, yeah, it's funny, isn't it,how it impacts people's lives.
It's just the most amazing.
It was an amazing event at thetime, so I'm so, so excited for
(04:20):
you this time around.
So what were the trials like?
What was the?
So what were the trials like?
What was the getting selected?
What were the physical trials?
Obviously, you'd you'd beentraining for the last decade.
Jodie Ounsley (04:29):
Yeah, so it was quite lucky.
Actually, they they'd beenreaching out to me asking if I
could come to the trials and Ijust couldn't make any of the
trials because obviously I waseither playing or I was training
.
I was like I can't, I can't dothis.
And then there just happened tobe one trial that landed in
like a rest week.
So I went and did the trial andit was grueling, it was like
(04:51):
savage, but yeah, so we did atrial and then went away and
sort of just waited really, andthen, um, literally got a call.
So a couple of emails back andforth just saying what the
opportunity would be, and thenhad a zoom call and then they
just they just told me basically, and I I generally had in my
head I thought, no, I don'tthink I've quite made it.
(05:12):
And the way, the way there wasspeaking on the zoom call was
like you know, when you say I'mlike x-factor or something where
they're like, and then they sayactually, yeah, you've, you've
got the role.
So I was honestly, I was soexcited and the thing is, on the
zoom call I was typical just mebeing a Yorkshire lass I wasn't
like crying or I was just sospeechless.
(05:34):
I literally said oh, I'm sochuffed, I said something like
that.
But um, yeah, it's just, it'scrazy, that's amazing, isn't?
Sue Anstiss (05:42):
it, and have you met any of the other gladiators?
I'm not asking you to give awaythe secrets.
It's not quite met any of theother gladiators.
I'm not asking you to give awaythe secrets.
It's not quite announced.
Have you met other gladiatorsyet at all?
Jodie Ounsley (05:49):
Well, I've actually met probably like three
or four and you'll actuallyyou'll know one.
I think you'll be prettyexcited who it is.
Because it was funny because wedidn't know we was at the trial
together and then obviously wedidn't know who got sort of
selected.
So then we turned up to likeour fittings or whatnot, and we
(06:12):
saw each other and we literallyscreamed like oh brilliant, like
we're going to have a greattime Such fun, such fun.
Sue Anstiss (06:18):
And do you know what your name is?
Yet Is that all to be revealed?
Jodie Ounsley (06:21):
Yeah, so I'm called Fury.
I love it, fury.
So obviously that they sort ofcame up with this name, because
obviously, when I feel like I'vegot different personalities, so
when I'm off the field in rugin the rugby world, I'm quite.
I'm quite a shy person.
I'm warm, trying, friendly,I'll do anything for anyone, but
(06:43):
as soon as I get on the field Iswitch, I'm just, I'm ready to
do some damage.
So it's actually, to be honest,fiora is me.
I feel like I don't have to bethis different type of person or
put on this character.
So Fiora is a very, you know,she's a very aggressive,
powerful and when she's incompetition she's out there to
(07:06):
absolutely, like I said, do somedamage.
She's not your friend, but assoon as she comes out of that
competition she's a much softerside, a very, you know, shows
sportmanship and very warmtowards the contenders.
So it's that contrast and Idon't think people will be
expecting that, because normallya gladiator sort of stays in
(07:27):
one, one part of the character.
So there's quite a contrastwith Fury, which is quite
exciting.
It's really interesting.
Sue Anstiss (07:34):
So years this is years ago in the 80s.
I worked for an agency at thetime that did uh, we were
working with Blockbuster videos,but we did lots of.
We had gladiators coming anddoing personal appearances and
the queues down the road forautographs and whatever like it
was just phenomenal, the kind ofprofile and drives.
Are you ready for that?
Almost what that might looklike in terms of recognition and
(07:56):
fame of Fury.
Jodie Ounsley (07:58):
A lot of people say you need to be prepared for
that, and I'm just thinking Idon't think I've processed that
and to me I'm.
You know, I'm a rugby playerand I happen to absolutely have
a big love for gladiators.
So for me to be a gladiator,maybe people might you know,
people might not even know me asa rugby player.
People might know me because atthe minute people either know
(08:20):
me as a rugby player or peopledon't know me as a player.
They probably know me, as youknow, an athlete who's deaf and
all the deaf awareness andteachers and parents.
So then there's this otheraspect.
Now I might be just known asfury and they might not know me
as anything else.
So that's quite what I'm stilltrying to wrap my head around.
But obviously I feel like I doneed to be prepared and more.
(08:42):
I think I need to be moreprepared for the grilling of my
teammates because, like, it'snever going to end.
I'm going to be training andit's all going to be fury, fury,
fury.
Sue Anstiss (08:50):
So, yeah, it's a lot to get there and have they
helped you, have they given yousupport to prepare you for the
profile that will come?
Jodie Ounsley (08:59):
yeah, no, they've been really good with that.
Actually, you know, they've hada psychologist on board you
know already good before that,before it's even started, just
to like sort of try and get yourhead around, like especially
around.
You know what social media islike these days, and obviously
in the previous gladiatorssocial media wouldn't have been
a huge presence, so that'sprobably a big role in this
(09:21):
theory.
So, yeah, they're being amazingwith that and I think they'll
continue that as we go into it.
Sue Anstiss (09:27):
Yeah, that's really reassuring to hear.
It's important, isn't it?
And how important do you thinkgladiators can be, or programmes
like gladiators, forcelebrating strong, powerful
women in our society?
Yeah, do you know what that?
Jodie Ounsley (09:40):
was one of the biggest things I was excited
about.
I was obviously excited aboutgladiators and you know, having
that opportunity, but in my headI was thinking this could be so
exciting whenever they had sucha big opportunity like this but
then also showcasing likestrong female athletes but not
just female athletes rugbyplayers to be specific.
(10:03):
So I'm just so excited aboutthat and, like you know, it's a
family show.
So many different people willbe watching.
You know whether it's kids,whether it's adults, and if they
see you know this individual asfury, you know being aggressive
, you know smashing peoplearound, you know being
competitive, but then alsoshowing that you can.
You can also be feminine, youcan also be friendly and just
(10:26):
showing the whole balance ofwhat you can be really.
And, yeah, I'm so, I'm.
That's what I'm most excitedabout just having that platform,
I suppose, and doing the best Ican be to also try and be a
role model, I suppose.
Yeah, I'm so excited for you.
Sue Anstiss (10:40):
I was like, can I keep it calm?
But I'm really excited for you.
And we saw, didn't we last yearhow Rose's appearance on
Strictly Come Dancing had suchan enormous impact on the deaf
community in the UK and she wenton to win.
And I mean that dance, thatsilent dance, for me was the
most powerful thing I've seenyou know on the show ever.
It was extraordinary.
(11:01):
So how did that dance affectyou and her involvement in a
show like that?
Jodie Ounsley (11:06):
like obviously I'm like 22 now, but even and
when I saw sort of Rose on theshow, I was like, oh, this is,
this is amazing.
Like you know someone who'sdeaf's on the show, someone's
you know who's having thatplatform and using their you
know their to try and be apositive change really.
And then when I saw that silentdance it, it gave me goosebumps
(11:27):
.
I just it was so simple but itfelt like I could something I
could really relate to andeveryone could relate to,
whether you're deaf or not.
It was just, it was brilliantand she had a massive role in
that.
Sue Anstiss (11:41):
And are you hoping that your presence on gladiators
could have a similar impact interms of just bringing people
into your world?
Jodie Ounsley (11:49):
yeah, no, I'd love that, um, obviously from
like the deaf, like awarenessside of things, but then also
like the women's sport, women's,you know, athletes.
I just think I'm so excitedabout that and I just really
want to try and use my platformto do that and just try and
inspire other people.
So, yeah, absolutely, I hope soBrilliant.
Sue Anstiss (12:09):
Are you happy to talk a little bit about your
deafness and growing up too?
I'm interested to explore that.
So what have your parentsshared with you about your
diagnosis from when you were ababy?
Jodie Ounsley (12:22):
Yeah, so to me, I've always known I've been
profoundly deaf from birth.
So there's obviously different,different levels of deafness.
But I'm basically at the bottom.
There's nothing like in bothears, there's just nothing there
like I'm talking.
You could, like we always say,you could literally get a gun or
something and fire a gun rightnext to my ear and I just, I
(12:42):
just want to hear it.
So, yeah, so profoundly deaf isthe bottom, which you can't
hear anything at any decibellevel.
So that was from a baby and thewhole reason.
Well, actually I found out inlockdown that I may have not
been born deaf.
Um, it was actually medicationthat made me lose my hearing
(13:03):
when I was a baby.
So obviously I was, I waspremature, so I was really ill
and you know I needed medicationto get better, otherwise you
know it could have been a lotworse.
So it was the case of they weregiving me medication but then
they didn't check how much, howmuch was in my system before
giving me another dose.
So they think that's a sideeffect of losing your hearing.
(13:23):
But to me, I've just been deafsince a baby and, like you know,
everyone's saying, well, howbad is that?
You've only just found that outand I'm like you know everyone
makes mistakes like you know,it's just one of those things,
really, and that's all I've everknown.
So then I went to get acochlear implant when I was 13
months old, and then from therethe whole journey of rehab,
(13:45):
speech therapy, every day, sortof through the week, until I
started school and went throughmainstream school rather than
sort of a deaf school.
Sue Anstiss (13:55):
Can you tell us about the cochlear implant and I
have followed some of yoursocial, but just to explain how
that works and what yourday-to-day level of hearing is
now or what that offers you,yeah, so like I think most
people think oh, if you have acochlear implant it's like a
quick fix, you've got sort ofnormal hearing.
Jodie Ounsley (14:14):
But it's.
It's nothing like that, it'sjust it's.
It's an amazing piece oftechnology, obviously.
So the way it works, it almost.
It basically bypasses soundpast my ears because they don't
work, and sends signals straightto, like, my brain and it sort
of interprets it as sound.
(14:35):
The science behind it I can't,I don't even know it myself.
It's bizarre.
It allows me to hear sounds andobviously probably hear very
different to what you hear.
But mostly I communicate withpeople by lip reading and just
the way you move your mouth andthe lip patterns and just years
of repetition and understandingthat.
But yeah, it's amazing.
(14:56):
It does allow me to hear somesound, but obviously when I take
it off, nothing.
Sue Anstiss (15:01):
And are cochlear implants constantly evolving and
developing and improving?
I imagine there must bedevelopments in that area.
Jodie Ounsley (15:11):
Yeah, they are sort of developing as we speak.
You normally have an upgradeafter maybe eight years or
something like that.
So I've probably had aboutthree different implants since
I've been growing up and theyhave improved, probably maybe
the sound or the direction ofsound.
So I've just got my new upgrade, probably at the start of the
(15:34):
year, um, and it basically justI've definitely noticed a slight
difference.
It sort of picks up directionof sound a little bit more
because obviously on this side Idon't have one, so anyone sat
on this side I just don't reallyhear what they're saying and
people, the amount of times whenI'm sat down at, you know,
tables or in school, peoplethought I was really rude, that
(15:54):
I was just like avoiding themand obviously I've got a bit of
a like resting bee face, um, sopeople just think I'm quite
arrogant or rude.
But really it's just I amurgent and I'm concentrating
that hard.
I just have a natural straightface that's so funny.
Sue Anstiss (16:12):
And you mentioned then school and going through
mainstream school.
So how was that for you andthat I just can.
I hardly imagine how hard thatthat must have been as a young.
All the young people go throughanyway, you know, in school
life it was.
Jodie Ounsley (16:27):
It was really difficult and I think that's the
whole reason why I wentstraight into sport.
I love sport because it wassomething I felt like I was good
at, it's something that Ienjoyed and, yeah, it was just
even the little things.
Obviously, I always had to, youknow, make sure I had to be sat
in front of the class so Icould see the teacher in the
mouth.
But the problem was I didn'thave confidence at all when I
(16:49):
was in school.
I was, I was shy, I was veryshy.
I'm quite shy now, but I thinkI've become a lot more confident
than I was in school.
But even just I didn't evenhave the confidence.
If I've missed something or if Iwas struggling in class, I
would never put my hand up andask the teacher what they said
or or make them aware that I'vemissed what they said or I was
struggling.
I would just keep it bottled upand just struggle and I would
(17:11):
miss out on a lot of things.
So I think when it came to PE,it was the best thing ever,
because it was like, oh, I don'treally need to, don't really
need to listen up here as such,I can just get out there, do
something I feel good at and itjust takes my mind off sort of
the struggles I was having inclass.
So I think that's the wholereason why I loved it so much
(17:34):
and I would.
I saw PE like it was theOlympic finals.
I took it too seriously.
I came in like my own clothes,like my muscle vest, my own
shorts and like running trainers, whilst everyone else was in
like you know PE kit.
So, um, yeah, I think I just Ijust put everything into the
sort of sport inside of itbecause I felt good at it.
Sue Anstiss (17:57):
Do you um think you would have thrived better in a
deaf school, or are you reallypleased that you went through
the mainstream system?
It must have been hard for yourparents to decide what's the
right route there that's abetter in a deaf school, or are
you really pleased that you wentthrough the mainstream system?
Jodie Ounsley (18:05):
it must have been hard for your parents to decide
what's the right route there,that's it everyone just has
different experience, everyonehas different opinions and I
think because I had my cochlearimplant, they heavily advised my
parents to go through thespeech therapy route and just
sort of the options, and my mumand dad were like back and forth
(18:26):
, they didn't know what to do,they didn't know what was right
for me, what was not right forme, people's opinions, and it
took them a lot of thinking andback and forth, the pros and
cons, but I think it would havejust been very different
experiences.
So in mainstream school Iheavily, you know, spoke spoken
language.
But if I was in a deaf school Imight have probably more relied
(18:49):
on BSL, british Sign Language,and just had a different group
of friends.
I probably mixed with a lotmore, you know, with the deaf
community.
But whereas school, atmainstream school, I was quite I
only remember being the onlydeaf person, really from what I
remember, so it's only since Igot into sport and you know, the
deaf olympics, and now with therugby, I'm a lot more involved
(19:11):
in the deaf community than Iever was in school I was very
separate from that.
Sue Anstiss (19:16):
Are you doing more with BSL?
I'd seen on some of your socialthat you were beginning to
learn.
I was following brother, mother, father, but is that something
you'd like to do more of oryou're doing more of?
Jodie Ounsley (19:26):
Yeah, yeah, so because obviously I focused on
spoken language in school.
I didn't really I didn't Idon't want to say I didn't have
the need to learn it, because Iobviously really wanted to learn
it but I didn't know any.
I wasn't aware around the deafcommunity at that point.
So it's only now, when I'mgoing into like schools and you
(19:51):
know, trying to be a role model,I wanted to like make a really
big effort of trying to learn it.
So, yeah, I'm I'm not fluent oranything like that I'm really
trying.
I know basics now and I'mactually I'm trying to sort of
involve it in gladiators as well.
So different parts of like mysignature moves and stuff like
that.
I've involved BSL as like aspart of my signature move as
Fury and then just little thingsof trying to interact with the
(20:12):
audience, like the little I loveyou sign and stuff like that.
So yeah, I'm trying to sort ofbring it more into my life now
and the gladiators and stuff.
Sue Anstiss (20:21):
Brilliant.
I love that.
I love that.
I heard a lovely story of youcopying your dad when you were
young and growing up with thecoal carrying uh championships,
which, first of all, is such aYorkshire pursuit, isn't it?
But can you tell us a littlebit more about that?
And there's some fabulous videoof you I've seen too yeah, so
it's it's.
Jodie Ounsley (20:42):
The thing is it's just a norm to us.
It's complete norm to us andeveryone else just thinks it's
bizarre and it is a Yorkshirething.
But it's literally like evennow, like every year, every
Easter Monday, we'll go andwatch it.
It's a family tradition.
But how it came about?
My dad actually started it andbasically the World Co-Carrying
Championships is from literallysack of coal on your shoulders
(21:04):
and it's from you run like amile and it's the first one to
the maypole.
And it started by two mates atthe pub who were drinking and
something like right, do youwant to race to the maypole with
sack of coal?
And that's how it came about.
And now it's this massivetradition and it's just it's
amazing how it's still going andit's even it's only getting
bigger as well.
More people come and it's sucha family thing.
(21:26):
So, yeah, anyway, at this pointI was around three years old.
My dad told me but I rememberit like it was yesterday and I
don't know how I can possiblyremember that.
It's so bizarre, but I justremember him running around
either in the garden.
I just remember in my head hewas just running around training
with something on his shoulders.
I didn't know what was on hisshoulders or why he was running
(21:46):
around in the garden, but I justthought it was brilliant.
And then he said that because wehad horses, like I said.
He just said I randomly pickedup this, like we had little
sacks of carrots and I put thelittle sacks of carrots on my
shoulders.
And then he just said I startedsprinting around the kitchen,
but then I didn't stop, I justkept sprinting around.
I started sprinting around thekitchen, but then I didn't stop,
(22:09):
I just kept sprinting around.
And then he always says in hishead that was like a moment
where I thought, wow, she'sprobably going to be involved in
sport or she's going to have alove for sport when she grows up
.
But yeah, so I've won it fivetimes.
Sue Anstiss (22:20):
I need to add that to your bio that you're five
times cold carry, Cold carrychampion.
And obviously you say sport issuch a part of your life, of
your family life, but you'vedone so much so track and field
and martial arts and differentmartial arts actually.
So tell us about that and Iguess why you found those, what
you loved about those sports.
(22:41):
First of all, yeah.
Jodie Ounsley (22:42):
So obviously I started with a cold race my
sporting career and thenathletics just appealed to me
and obviously at school you'realways doing athletics like
you're either doing sprints orsports day.
So I naturally went intorunning.
I always loved being like fastand racing my dad and stuff.
So, yeah, went into like 100metre sprints, 200 metre sprints
(23:04):
, because they have like deathchampionships and competitions.
So I did them all the way up,like when I was eight years old,
and all the way through schooland stuff.
And then I think that again, Ithink I was like a world
champion without like thosecompetitions.
It would just.
But I generally saw thosecompetitions like I was racing
in the Olympics.
It was unreal, like I rememberthe feeling I was like if I
(23:27):
didn't win I'd be going homecrying.
That's how serious I was.
So, yeah, I did athletics andthen I even did judo karate for
a little bit.
But then I came across BrazilianJiu-Jitsu because my dad's come
from that background.
So he started, you know, as aprofessional MMA fighter.
Oh was he?
Yeah, he's won multiple titles.
(23:48):
It's so humble and he neverspeaks about this.
So I have to like hype him upand tell people about this.
So, yeah, he was like an MMAfighter, you know, did brilliant
at that.
And then he moved intoBrazilian Jiu-Jitsu.
You know he's a black belt.
He's like world champion,european champion, british
champion.
Wow, I mean, in our garagethere's just a whole line of
(24:12):
medals that is won and yeah,like I said, it's just so humble
he doesn't speak about it, it'sjust, that's just yeah, that's
just his norm.
So, yeah, obviously, me trainingwith him in the garage and like
you know, that's when I pickedit up and then I started
competing in brazilian jiu-jitsu.
Can't say I won world champion,but I'm, I managed to win
british champion anyway.
But yeah, our saturday nightswere again, this was the norm to
(24:36):
us.
Our saturday nights werebecause we had like mats down in
the garage.
We made it into like awrestling thing alongside the
rings.
Um, so the wall, the climbingwall, yeah, yeah, so we'd fight
in the garage and it wouldalways end in tears because
obviously a little 12 year oldor whatever was not gonna be
(24:57):
like a world champion.
But I just had in my head thatI need to beat him.
I need to beat him and I neverdid and obviously it'll go.
It'll go really easy on me,obviously, but I just I was so
angry.
But anyway, we'll fight in thegarage before Britain's Got
Talent started.
So it will like have a fightand then we'll get in time to
have our like chicken nuggets.
It will like chicken nuggets mymum do like sort of chicken
(25:19):
nuggets and chips, and thenwe'll watch Britain's Got Talent
.
Sue Anstiss (25:21):
I love it.
I saw some video I might be oneof your TikToks of him with.
I might me with the Exetergirls where he's demonstrating
taking you down.
Their faces are like peopleshould watch it.
I should put a link in the shownotes.
But people are watching.
Your colleagues, your teammateswatching it.
I can't believe what's going onwith him.
Jodie Ounsley (25:41):
But the thing is obviously I just put it on my
social media just as a littlefunny thing, but it honestly
blew up and people were nothappy with it so I had to put
some context behind it becauseobviously those moves he was
doing in the video are allillegal in rugby.
Um, he was doing those movesbefore adapting it in rugby
(26:02):
situations so it was like oh,for example, this is what I
would do if I was in a fight andhe'll do it a demo on me, but
then it'll sort of adapt it toways how you can use wrestling
in contact areas in rugby.
Obviously the funniest partwere when he was like getting me
in arm locks and choking me, soI was like that's what I posted
.
But yeah, I had to put somecontext behind it.
(26:24):
But the girls it was obviouslyvery new to the girls but they
all loved it and the fight wasgreat.
Sue Anstiss (26:30):
I'm interviewing Molly McCann for this series too
.
So I wonder, in terms of MMA,has that been something that you
have considered as a part?
You were young in your career,you got a long way to go, but is
that something you mightconsider in the future?
Jodie Ounsley (26:45):
Yeah, I've honestly said I before I did
rugby, I really wanted to do MMA.
But the only issue around thatis getting around my implant,
because with rugby obviously I'mlucky that I can wear a scrum
cap and kind of protect it insome way, but in MMA you can't.
You can't wear like head guardsand stuff, so it's obviously
(27:05):
punches directly to the.
So that is really difficult toget around that and I think
that's a bit too far to try andpersuade my parents to let me do
.
But yeah, I generally alwayssaid, oh, I'd love to go in MMA,
I would honestly love it.
But then that's sort of when Icame across rugby and it's sort
of similar in some ways, thecontact.
Sue Anstiss (27:27):
And the gladiators is almost like a controlled MMA.
I wouldn't ever tell anyone inMMA I said that, but you know
it's taking similar traits ofthe different skills, isn't it
too?
You mentioned rugby and yourimplant and everything, so can
you talk a little bit about thatprocess and how that was for
your parents of your finding?
Jodie Ounsley (27:51):
rugby and then allowing you to go and play
something that is a, you know, avery physical contact sport
yeah well, the whole reason whyI started it later on because
obviously I would have lovedrugby when I was younger but
basically my mum and dad didn'tallow me to play rugby but not
from a not sort of from aperspective of saying, no, we
don't want you playing rugby.
It was purely because peoplewith cochlear implants get told
not to do contact sports becauseof the risks.
(28:13):
There's two risks.
So the one risk is like theactual sort of the processor
that sits on my ear that's justwhere the batteries are.
That could break, I suppose,but that can be replaced.
The bigger risk is becauseobviously I've got a magnet
under my skin and then this partis a magnet as well, so it just
, you know, just sticks to myhead.
(28:35):
But the risk is, if I got ahard enough impact straight
direct onto the magnet, then itcould like dislodge it and
obviously, as you can imagine,that's a lot of complications.
It could be very painful andeven having to have another
operation.
And I've actually heard peoplefrom like who I know who have,
you know, dislodged the magnetand had to have a reoperation,
(28:57):
but then they've had strokes andstuff.
So obviously they they advisepeople not to do contact sports.
Because why would you ifthere's those complications?
Sue Anstiss (29:05):
how on earth did you persuade your parents to let
you play then?
As a parent, as a mother, I'mthinking that's just not gonna
happen.
Jodie Ounsley (29:12):
I know so obviously, like it was just
always no, you're not playingrugby and they tried directing
me in different sports andthat's probably why I did so
many different sports, becausethey were just trying to keep me
away from all the contactsports.
But I wanted to do fighting andyou know anyway.
So you know, with the rugby,how it really came to surface
was my younger brother startedplaying and he, you know, I went
(29:35):
to watch him train.
I went to watch him like playgames and just seeing him train
and play, I was just like, oh,that is so unfair.
Do you know, when it just boilsyour blood that you can't do
something because someone'ssaying you can't do it?
Well, obviously I knew it wasfor the right reasons.
It wasn't just saying you can'tplay rugby because you're a
girl or something like that, itwas because of the medical
(29:55):
reasons.
So the more I watched him, themore I watched him like train
and play.
I just wanted to do it and Ithink my parents could see how
much I really wanted to do itand and they heard it, because
they're the most supportiveparents ever They've only ever
supported me, only ever, youknow, pushed me into sports, you
know, because it's somethingI'm good at.
So for them to see me how muchit was it was getting me down,
(30:17):
because I was like I feel like Icould be good at this and I
think they kind of gave in, tobe honest.
So my dad, he spent weeks beinghonest, just because that's his
person, he is.
He spent weeks reaching out tospecialists, like medical, like
doctors, and just saying whatare the risks and is there a
certain way we can get aroundthis?
So then you know, we can allowmy daughter to play rugby.
(30:38):
And obviously they came backand saying, look, no, you
shouldn't be doing this, likeyou shouldn't be doing contact
sports altogether.
I know she wants to play rugby,but it's just not you shouldn't
be doing it.
But my dad did not give in soanyway was like, well, is there
ways we can wear a like a paddedhelmet or something like that?
And then we came across a rugbyscrum cap.
It was like, oh, maybe we couldtry this.
(30:59):
And then he added extra paddingin it just for the first time
of doing it.
And it was like, right, okay,number one rule if you want to
play rugby or if you want totrain, you have to wear your
scrum cap or you're not doing it.
So that was so.
That's what we agreed on.
I thought, fine, yeah.
So he said, right, I'll let yougo down to a rugby session,
thinking that I'd just do thissession, get out of my system,
(31:20):
then just get bored of it and goon to a different sport.
So I was absolutely ecstaticthat he let me.
So anyway, we went down to thelocal sort of rugby club, which
was Sandal, up in Wakefield.
We went into their car park and, I kid you not, I was that
nervous.
I was in.
I was an absolute mess.
I was like I even turned aroundto my dad.
(31:42):
I said, dad, I don't want to dothis anymore.
Can we just go home now, in thebest way possible?
He turned around.
He said I'm not being funny,but like all this nagging, like
trying to get us to, you know,allow you to play rugby now you
want to go home.
And then he obviously signed up.
He was like look, julie, I knowyou're nervous, but you know
(32:03):
you'll.
You know you'll enjoy it.
You know you'll meet new people, you meet the girls, you'll get
to learn, you know the laws ofthe game.
Because I didn't know anythingabout rugby at this point.
I've just sort of watched itand it was like you'll feel good
afterwards that you've done itand you'll be happy that you've
done it.
So, to be honest, if he hadn'tgiven me that little pep talk, I
would have been very like no, Idon't want to do it anymore,
let's just go home, I'm toonervous how old were you?
Sue Anstiss (32:25):
how old were you then?
Jodie Ounsley (32:26):
I remember I was like 15 that's how shy I was.
I was so shy I just didn't haveconfidence, um, anyway.
So it was a whole thought ofmeeting new people and then also
the thought of I don't knowanything about rugby, like I
don't know the laws.
So I think it was just a wholemixture.
Anyway, I saw a couple of girlswalking past and I thought,
right, I'll get out the car andquickly go over.
(32:47):
And then, um, yeah, they wereamazing.
Like as soon as I sort ofwalked up to the fields, they
were just all welcoming, they'rejust like.
They came up to me and was likewho are you?
Like I'm so and so.
And then the coaches were thesame, and because my dad spoke
to the coach on the phonepreviously before going to the
club, just to explain that I'mdeaf and stuff, so it wasn't
like a shock, you know.
(33:08):
So they were prepared and stuff.
But yeah, they were amazing.
And then, even if I didn't knowanything about rugby, they were
just.
I even remember like, at thispoint I didn't even know you had
to like pass the ball backwardsliterally.
So they were just amazing, likethey really broke it down and
just made me feel comfortable.
Um, and then, I think literallythe next weekend or so, he said,
(33:28):
oh, do you want to be on thebench and play for us?
I was like what?
And oh, I went on and I trippedover my own shoelaces.
How embarrassing.
I tripped over my own shoelaces, fell back, I thought what am I
doing here?
Got up and then I just rememberthe ball popping up to me and
honestly, I just caught the balland I just ran for my life and
(33:48):
then I scored and I remember mydad was under there like sticks
and my granddad, and they werejust so happy for me and I think
from that moment I was like,yeah, I think I'm going to enjoy
rugby and that's how it fromthere.
So, yeah, I didn't forget aboutit and now we're here and I've
seen that footage.
Sue Anstiss (34:07):
That video is the footage there, that first try.
It is amazing.
So you obviously knew passbackwards and the ruck and to
just run when you got the ballbecause that was, you know.
It's just so powerful to see.
It's lovely to hear howinclusive and welcoming the club
was, you know, down inWakefield, but have you found
that generally throughout rugby?
And obviously you've, will youknow you've gone on to progress,
(34:34):
uh, in terms of yourrepresentative stuff, but did
you find every level rugby hasbeen inclusive for you.
Jodie Ounsley (34:37):
Yeah, like, absolutely obviously, like from
sort of the deafness side ofthings, but even just just being
one of those sports like like,as people keep saying, you can
literally come from anybackground, any body, shape,
anything Like it does not matter.
Once you get into the rugbyfield, people just bring you in
and that's what I love aboutrugby, like you're just a family
(34:58):
and people, regardless who youare, they just accept you and
you just all have a love forrugby, you all have a love for
sport.
But then in terms of like mydeafness, I think rugby has 100%
like changed me as a person,like my confidence and
everything.
And like I said when I wasgoing through school, I didn't,
(35:18):
I didn't talk about it, I didn'tlike I said I never even asked
for like help or anything likethat and I'll try and I wouldn't
hide it.
But I'd like with my processornow it's white.
I would have never had a whiteone at school, I would have
probably tucked it under my hairand stuff like that.
And it was only when I wentinto the England 7 setup when it
completely changed.
(35:40):
So it's funny because, like,obviously, when I was going into
the program, like the coachesand players.
They were obviously aware thatI was like a deaf person, a deaf
like player going into theprogram, but like they've never
experienced that, especially inan elite sort of performance,
and I think it was all new tothem.
So they were obviously awarebefore I went in and I remember
(36:02):
my first day again, I was in amess but I actually went, I
actually went, I actually went,I went in.
Anyway, they were all sowelcoming, brought me in like
their own, but I remember therewas such a big elephant in the
room, not one person I couldsense they didn't dare ask about
my deafness or anything likethat.
(36:23):
I think people in generalthey're just scared of saying
the wrong thing or they feellike they can't ask me things.
But it's the opposite and itjust happened that the coaches
said, right, as like a teambonding session, we want you to
do a little presentation onyourselves, just to explain your
journey, who you are, yourrugby career, and get up in
(36:44):
front of the team and just dothis presentation.
So obviously just doing apresentation was like absolutely
terrifying for me because it'syou know, these are all players
I've been watching on the tv,like you know, in the olympics,
on the world series.
And now I'm stood here on aboutpresentation about myself and
like it was.
It was like Abby Brown beforeme and she was telling a whole
(37:05):
career and and then it was likeme next.
I thought how am I gonnacompare to that anyway?
So I got off and I thought thatwould be a great opportunity to
actually speak about mydeafness, which, again, I
wouldn't really do much of that.
So I got all pictures from megrowing up and like my levels of
deafness and how I got intorugby and whatnot.
And I kid you not, from thatmoment on, like when we finished
(37:26):
and stuff, like the girls werejust asking me questions and it
was just like they were.
It was fine, there's nothingawkward about it, nothing like
they were nervous, I thinkbecause I just spoke so openly
about it.
They felt like comfortable toask me questions and they went
above and beyond the team andthe staff just to try and make
it as easy as possible being onthe pitch and stuff.
(37:49):
For example, like they wouldmic me up and we had like a
drone filming our trainingsessions.
So basically they mic'd me upand there were like another guy
filming me on a different camera, just my movements.
So I was mic'd up to thisseparate camera and then
basically we did that to seewhat the picture was, what
(38:12):
everyone else was doing, butthen to also see what I'm
hearing or not hearing in thatsituation.
So it was like amazing to seewhat like players could be
hearing in that situation orseeing.
But then I'm in that samesituation of what I'm maybe not
hearing and basically how we canmake it easier with
communication and stuff.
And look back at footage.
(38:32):
It was amazing, like it shockedme, how much the players and
staff generally wanted to helpme and make it easier on the
field and stuff.
So from that moment on thatjust grew my confidence and be
more open about in like this iswhere I struggle, this is what
could help, and things like that.
So it was pretty special that'samazing, isn't it?
Sue Anstiss (38:51):
and I think it's such an important message of the
you're feeling confident toshare to enable people to feel
braver to ask the questions.
Because it's exactly that Ithink I'm.
I feel like exactly the same.
It's almost like a bit I don'twant to make you uncomfortable,
you don't want to ask things,but you, but people want to know
.
Then they can you behavedifferently?
And you've obviously moved onthen to do so much on social
(39:13):
media and your TikTok and Ithink 5 million views of your
videos, of 130,000 peoplefollowing you Did that come from
?
That?
Almost You're beginning toshare more generally with people
your story around thechallenges you face, but also
explaining to people what itmeans to you in your day-to-day
life.
Yeah, like.
Jodie Ounsley (39:34):
That's the whole reason why I think I think it
was because I generally saw theimpact on myself more more than
anything like just by meactually speaking openly about
it built my confidence, as wellas, obviously, other like ways
and awareness for other peopleto understand better.
Because that's all I found ispeople just generally have a bit
of a lack of awareness andthat's all.
(39:55):
It is like people not beingarrogant or anything like that
they just probably don't know,or you know, how to act, or they
just don't like, especially ifyou haven't met a deaf person
before you just you just have noidea and that's natural.
I think it would literally,literally probably just become
out of lockdown and I thought,oh right, this was.
I was not on TikTok, everyonewere dancing on TikTok.
So I was like, oh, so Idownloaded it and me and mum
(40:17):
tried to do this TikTok dance,right, and obviously we were
awful.
But then I actually remembersort of seeing other videos that
were nothing to do with dancing.
So I thought, all right, dopeople actually use this for
business and stuff and, like youknow different things?
So I thought, all right, maybeI could do a video just on a
deaf awareness video and justsee how it is.
And I think I literally put onevideo on of me just taking my
(40:40):
implant off, saying, oh, this ismy cochlear implant.
If I take it off, you know, Ican't hear any sound blah, blah,
blah, and that all it was andthat completely blew up and the
feedback I got from it wasamazing just sort of people
asking the questions and feelinglike they can ask me the
questions and just like mostlyparents with young deaf kids
saying, oh, this is so good toyou know, have this information.
(41:03):
You know, because most of mostof my following are actually
either teachers or parents whowith kids who are like literally
babies and they're decidingwhether to have a cochlear
implant, or they don't know whatyour life can look like with a
cochlear implant.
And me just doing these littlevideos is giving well, as in
their words, giving themreassurance and sort of just
(41:25):
giving them that confidence togo with that decision and stuff.
So, yeah, like the more I'vedone it and the more feedback
I've seen from people, it's it'sonly done wonders for myself,
but most importantly, I justwant to help other people.
So it's, it's crazy, but yeah,just what a little video can do.
Sue Anstiss (41:41):
And yeah, and how does that feel?
How do you feel to be gettingthat feedback and knowing you're
having, I guess, both for thedeaf community but just more
broadly in society, to beraising awareness to?
Jodie Ounsley (41:53):
I mean, to me it's bizarre, like I still don't
get my head around it.
To me I'm just, you know, in myhead I'm a girl who loves rugby
, I'm playing rugby.
I'm a girl who's, you know, alittle bit deaf, but you know, I
just like play rugby and I havea love for that.
But then there's also a bigpart of me that I've just I've
always wanted to help people, nomatter what the situation.
I just love to help people, Ilove to be a good person, I love
(42:15):
just being just spread positiveenergy, basically, um, so in a
way that I can do that it's.
It's bizarre because I feellike, and just to feedback, even
the other day I got, um, it wasit.
I literally nearly startedcrying.
This is how much it touched me.
So last year when the Sevensgirls had an opportunity to play
(42:36):
at Twickenham, we played ourgames and then we sort of went
round Twickenham and obviouslysigning autographs and stuff,
and then there was a young girland a young boy who were
shouting me or something andthey both had cochlear implants
and then they were sort ofsaying, oh, it's so good that
you've got a cochlear implant,we're matching, it's really cool
that we're matching, and, oh,it really touched my heart.
(42:58):
I was, honestly, I was like anemotional wreck anyway.
So we were just talking and Iwas like, oh, do you play rugby?
And she was like, no, I don'tplay rugby because of my
cochlear implant.
And I was like, all right, well, I've been playing.
Obviously, if you get like alittle scrum cap, we can be
matching with the scrum caps aswell.
So, anyway, she were lovely,she's absolutely sweetheart.
And then, um left and thenliterally, so a year on,
(43:19):
literally, yes, well, like twodays ago or something, I got a
message from the parents, fromher dad, showing a picture of us
together, because we had apicture together when I was
signing an autograph, and hesaid something like oh, I hope
you remember this photo.
This is my daughter, she's nowplaying rugby and she's
absolutely loving every minute.
And then he sent me the photoof her playing rugby and she
(43:42):
looked savage and she had likethis multi-coloured scrum cap
and honestly, I got goosebumpswhen I watched it because I just
thought that's crazy.
I'm just doing what I lovedoing.
I'm just doing rugby, I'm justtrying to be a good person.
And then when I get messageslike that, I just can't get my
head around it and it just makesyour heart warm.
(44:03):
That's all I can say.
Yeah, absolutely.
Sue Anstiss (44:06):
Absolutely, and from all the content you share.
I love your parents from allthe content you share.
I love your parents from allthe content you share, but it's
really clear that that supportand their support has been so
important to you.
So how did they react when theyheard that you were listed in
the BBC Women's Hour power listfor the women in sport?
Jodie Ounsley (44:23):
yeah, they were.
So they were so chuffed for melike they are literally my
biggest, biggest supporters ever, like I generally think without
my parents I wouldn't be theperson I am today.
100%, they've done nothing butsupport me.
But not just support me Because, obviously, with all my
confidence and struggling withmy confidence and quite a lot of
(44:44):
self-doubt and stuff like that,they have always been like no,
jodie, you know, snap out ofthat, you're brilliant, you can
do it.
And just constantly having myback and yeah.
So, um, they're amazing.
And even now they're just likemy mom is literally my best
friend and I'm not even, I'm noteven ashamed of admitting it.
We're just like everyone thinks, we're sisters, just with how
we are.
(45:05):
So, um, yeah, they're brilliant,like my dad, obviously, through
, you know, growing up, being inall the sport, you know, doing
the climbing wall for me,setting up rings, just all these
things.
It's just because he's abrilliant parent, he's a
brilliant person and just wantsto support me.
And then, obviously, my mum shewas the one who took me to
rehab and speech therapy everyday during the week and she even
(45:26):
had to step away from her jobjust to spend more time with me
so she could do, you know,speech therapy with me and more
repetition, because obviouslythe more repetition the better
your speech and just things likethat.
And you know she's such a hardworking person, she's like she's
got such a pure heart and thekindest person ever, and I
literally always think if I'mlike the half the person my mum
(45:48):
is, then I'm all right.
So that's all I think anyway.
Sue Anstiss (45:52):
Oh, that's so lovely, so lovely to hear.
You're honorary president of UKDeaf Sport and patron of the
Elizabeth Foundation, a UKcharity for young deaf children.
So why are those roles soimportant to you as well?
Because that's a lot to take onwith everything else that
you're doing too.
Jodie Ounsley (46:10):
Well, with the Elizabeth Foundation, it's such
like something so close to myheart, because obviously that's
the charity where obviously I'msaying all about the speech,
vaping, the rehab, that's whereI did all the speech.
So I started with them when Iwas I was about three months old
, so even before I got mycochlear implant and they were
amazing, like absolutely amazingpeople, what they do and just
(46:33):
not even just for myself, andjust what they do for the
parents, you know, giving themthe support, giving them, you
know just the reassurance andjust feel like they're not on
their own in the situation andstuff like that.
So, yeah, then they basicallyasked me to be patron and I was
like, obviously, who would turnthat down?
So, um, it just meant so muchand, yeah, they're just
brilliant.
(46:53):
And the same with UK deaf sportlike obviously going through the
deaf olympics and just sport ingeneral.
I'm so passionate about notjust like encouraging, you know,
deaf kids getting into rugby,but sport in general.
So, yeah, two things I'm verypassionate about.
So obviously it's quitechallenging to juggle it all,
(47:14):
but obviously when you'repassionate about something, you
know it's something you justwant to do.
Sue Anstiss (47:19):
Yeah, it's lovely to hear your kind of passion and
enthusiasm for that whole spacetoo.
Finally, I'd be reallyinterested to know I know you've
talked about kind of deafnessas your superpower and you kind
of do feel it's something thathas enabled you to go and do
other things.
So how do you feel it has madeyou stronger as an individual,
as an athlete and as a as aperson too?
Jodie Ounsley (47:39):
I have said it's like a superpower, but I don't
want people to think, oh, it's,it's all amazing and it's.
It's the way I see it as asuperpower is.
You know, it is a dailystruggle, it is challenging on a
daily basis, but it's allowedme to think outside the box and,
you know, adapt and think ofdifferent ways to get things
(48:01):
done.
So in some ways, like becauseI'm deaf, I'm a lot more visual.
So on the rugby field, that'samazing, because coaches just
want you to be more visual andsee the space.
The rugby field, that's amazing, because coaches just want you
to be more visual and see thespace.
So I think it's allowed me to,you know, just adapt and think
of solutions and work harder insome aspects, I suppose, and
just, you know, be moreconfident, be more outgoing with
(48:24):
people asking for help and justall these things.
If I wasn't deaf, I don't thinkI would have been the person I
am today.
So, yeah, in that context,that's why I think it's a
superpower and it's obviouslyyou're different, that's all I'm
saying.
Sue Anstiss (48:36):
But that's not a bad thing, that's a it's a good
thing and you've got to embraceit, I suppose and in terms of
what we can all do to betterunderstand your world and make
sport more inclusive foreveryone.
If you had to leave with somekind of tips or advice of what
you'd like to see from yourexperience, what would that be?
Jodie Ounsley (48:55):
I literally would just say don't be afraid to ask
.
Like if someone came up to meand if they said something like,
oh, is there any way we canmake things a bit easier on the
field, or something like that,or is there anything you prefer
just to make it that bit easier,I think, oh, that's, that's
really good of them to ask that,because normally people like I
said are too scared to even sayanything or just avoid it.
(49:16):
I just advise people to be moreopen-minded and not afraid,
just to speak about it, becausethat's what we need to do just
speak about it.
Sue Anstiss (49:30):
What an amazing woman jodie is.
I can't wait to see her ongladiators later this year.
Head over to fearlesswomencoukto find previous episodes, where
I've spoken to other incrediblerugby legends, including sarah
(49:50):
Hunter, maggie Alfonsi, sue Day,shauna Brown, emma Mitchell and
Karen Finlay.
As well as listening to all thepodcasts on the website, you
can also find out more about theWomen's Sport Collective, a
free, inclusive community forall women working in sport.
You can sign up for theFearless Women newsletter, which
(50:14):
highlights the developments inglobal women's sport, and
there's more about my book GameOn the Unstoppable Rise of
Women's Sport.
Thanks again to Sport Englandfor backing the game changers
with the National Lottery Award,and to Sam Walker at what Goes
On Media, who does such anincredible job as our executive
(50:37):
producer.
The Game Changers is free tolisten to and you can find it on
all podcast platforms.
Do follow us or subscribe tomake sure you don't miss out on
future episodes, and if you havea moment to leave a review or a
rating, that would be great, asit really helps us to reach new
(51:00):
audiences.
Do come and say hello on socialmedia, or you'll find me on
Instagram, linkedin and Twitterat Sue Anstis.
The Game Changers Fearlesswomen in sport.
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