October 28, 2025 • 39 mins
How does it feel when images of one of the world’s most famous athletes go viral… and she’s wearing your brand?
That’s the first thing we asked Mari Thomas-Welland on today’s episode of The Game Changers, after Serena Williams shared gym photos wearing the Maaree sports bra.
Mari is a sports engineer turned founder who has reimagined women’s performance wear using science rather than guesswork. It’s a brilliant conversation about innovation, body confidence and the importance of evidence-based design for women's bodies.
From early lab work at Loughborough University to a DIY prototype that led to her patented Overband® technology, Mari shares how understanding real breast movement was the key to creating a sports bra that truly supports comfort and control.
We explore the myths of bra sizing, the realities of being a female entrepreneur and how access to sports bras could transform teenage girls participation in sport and physical activity.
There are now over 250 episodes of The Game Changers, all free to listen on every podcast platform or via fearlesswomen.co.uk.
Next week’s guest: Emma Wilson, windsurfing sensation and current world number one.
Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.
Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media
A Fearless Women production
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mari Thomas-Welland (00:05):
And to think that we sent a man to the
moon before the sports bra wasinvented.
How insane is that.
Sue Anstiss (00:15):
Mari Thomas-Welland is a pioneering founder of
MAAREE, the sports bra brandredefining women's performance
wear.
In this episode of The GameChangers, I talk to the sports
engineer-turned entrepreneurabout how she's combined her
technical expertise with her ownsporting experience.
To design bras and sportswearthat truly empower women to move
(00:39):
with confidence.
Mari's groundbreakinginnovations are now trusted by
women across the world,including international sports
stars like Serena Williams andLioness Millie Bright, cementing
Mari's reputation as the go-tobrand for support, comfort and
performance.
Mari, can I start with thoseincredible images of Serena
(01:04):
Williams in your sports bra?
How did it feel to wake up inthe morning and see the internet
full of her gym selfies showingoff her six-pack in a MAAREE
Sports bra?
Mari Thomas-Welland (01:14):
Oh my god, it was insane.
It was one of those momentswhere you're only first down at
a brand and people like, oh, whowould you love to get in your
in your in your products?
And my aim was always like, oh,I would love if I could get my
bras back on Serena.
That would be amazing.
Always thinking, that'sprobably a very far shot in the
dark.
You're probably not going toget there.
But when that moment actuallyhappened, I, oh my God, I was
(01:35):
running around the house.
I was telling everybody, I wasputting in all my WhatsApp
groups.
It was so cool to see that theyhad reached her and she loves
them.
And I've had feedback from herteam saying that they're
incredible.
So yeah, it was an unbelievablemoment and one that's right up
there.
Sue Anstiss (01:52):
It was all over my social media feed at the time
and people sharing it andexcited for you as well, and
excited for the brand too.
That's so sweet.
Did it have an impact, anoticeable impact in terms of
awareness and sales for you?
Mari Thomas-Welland (02:04):
Absolutely.
So yeah, we had a lot ofpeople, I had a lot of people
reaching out to me saying thatthey saw the bra, uh, how
amazing that was because youknow Serena is beyond sport,
even isn't she?
She's she's so much bigger thanthan the sport that she's in.
And so it was so incredible tosee that.
And I would know next time Iwould love it if we got a tag.
Obviously, she's probably uhprobably restricted to what she
(02:24):
can post about with her dealsand everything, but it would be
so incredible if hopefullysometime in the future we could
get a tag as well.
That'd be fantastic.
But we'll see.
We'll see what happens.
Sue Anstiss (02:33):
And did you find out how she came across it,
where she found it from herteam?
Have they told you how it cameto be on her?
Mari Thomas-Welland (02:40):
So her team actually reached out to us.
Strangely enough, like it wasagain one of those messages that
comes in and you think, Thiscan't be real.
Like I didn't believe it at thestart.
And um, as soon as I read themessage, and someone was like,
Oh yeah, we'd love to get yourbras on Serena, uh, and then get
her to try them out becauseshe's she struggles with this
area.
And so I was like, okay, Idon't not sure if I this is a
(03:02):
true message.
So I did a lot of research andI was like, okay, is this right?
Is this coming from the rightemail address and things like
that?
And then once I confirmed thatthat was right, I was like,
okay, let's you can havewhatever you want.
Yeah, absolutely.
So then I put a little packagetogether for her, and again,
only being 90% confident reallythat this is going to a
legitimate source, and I wasn'tbeing catfished or anything like
(03:25):
that.
So I still had no idea for agood few weeks that if they had
actually been received by her orshe likes them, or you can like
that.
Still no idea if it was true.
And then when the image cameout, I was like, oh my gosh,
okay, it was true all along.
This is amazing.
Sue Anstiss (03:40):
Well, it's purpless, isn't it?
Because it's not just the factthat you got them to her and to
try them, but then she likedthem enough to be pictured in
them.
And there are many otherbrands, you know, that she's
associated with that she couldhave been wearing.
So she said it that's the kindof proof in that image.
Mari Thomas-Welland (03:55):
Absolutely.
And the feed, and I've hadfeedback from her team with them
showing messages from hersaying how much she loves the
bras and how much she'simpressed by them.
So even without the post, thatwould have been just such a
heartwarming moment for me.
Absolutely.
Sue Anstiss (04:08):
As a fellow Loughborough alumni, graduate, I
love that that's where yourentrepreneurial journey started.
So can you take us back to whatyou realized the sports bra
industry perhaps was failingwomen?
And what sort of sparked yourpassion to fix that?
Mari Thomas-Welland (04:24):
I've always been a keen sportswoman.
I played hockey all the waythrough school and to a pretty
decent level.
And so I always knew I wantedto do something in sports, but I
was more interested on theproduct side of sports.
So I did sports engineering atLoughborough, uh, which was an
amazing course.
I had so much fun on thatcourse.
And I was fortunate enoughafter to get a job in the
department testing theperformance of sports bras for
(04:46):
other brands.
And so there's only two placesin the UK which has that kind of
research and development centerfor sports bras.
So Lefeba being one andPortsmouth being the other.
So I thought this was anamazing opportunity that I got
all of a sudden, and obviouslyone that I was interested in
personally as well, because Icould never find the perfect
sports bra for myself.
(05:07):
I never really questioned it upto that point.
I was wearing two sports brasat a time, realized so many
other women were as well.
So I just suddenly felt kind ofreally interested to learn more
about this subject.
And so all the women who wouldkind of turn up for my trials
were also really interested infinding their perfect sports bra
because they couldn't findtheir right one.
And a lot of these big brandsused to come to us and say, Oh,
(05:29):
we need to reduce, you know,downwards motion of uh by X
percent in this bra.
And he's like, Okay, great.
But I can see from thoseresults that your booze move in
a figure of eight when you'rerunning.
And so just to concentrate onreducing downwards motion felt
really short-sighted to me.
And I used to tell them, whydon't you put something over the
top?
Because if you can stop yourbooze coming up so much, then
they won't come down so much.
(05:49):
But this either kind of nevermade its way back up the food
chain, or you know, they werelooking for a marketing claim.
But um, you know, it was a fewa few years later, and this this
um idea still never really leftmy mind.
And it occurred to me, like ifthe big brands are coming to us
to do their research, that mustmean all the other brands are
doing nothing.
So there's no surprise reallythat there's such a big gap of
(06:14):
knowledge in this industry, sothat so many women can't find
their right support because themarket doesn't sound like that.
It's catering for the women init.
So it kind of makes sense tome.
Like, why actually can't I dosomething about this?
Because I'm part of only twoplaces in the UK that has all
this knowledge.
So why not me?
I started asking myself, whynot me instead of why me?
(06:35):
And so yeah, that's kind ofwhen I thought, right, I'm gonna
do something about this.
I went to a charity shop oneday and I bought a belt of all
things, and I adapted it to suitthe shape of my body and
attached it to a sports bra thatI had in my wardrobe already.
And so I went for a run.
And even without all that fancyequipment, I could feel how
much of a difference it made.
The amount of bounce reductionI was getting in that bra with
(06:59):
that new belt on top compared towhen I didn't have that belt
on, was so significant that Ithought, okay, this idea's got
something in it.
So then, yeah, I went to kindof find some new suppliers to
help me develop some prototypes.
And yet, now we developed theonly sports bras in the world
with overbound technology.
Sue Anstiss (07:16):
And how did it feel?
When you took it, it'sobviously you had that idea, and
then you and I love that storyof the kind of DIY prototype
with the elastic belt.
But how did it feel?
When you then ran and you thataha moment of this has actually
worked, was that a surprise?
Did you anticipate that wouldbe the case from the stuff that
you'd researched before?
Mari Thomas-Welland (07:36):
I mean, I could feel like I could feel
there was there's definitelyways to improve the sports bra.
And I just in my mind, I hadn'tobviously put it into something
physical yet.
I just thought this idea'sgotta work.
Like, you know, when women arerunning and they feel like
they've got too much bounce,they put their hands over the
top of their chest.
They don't support themselvesby putting it underneath.
And so I just thought, there'ssomething that's gotta replace
(07:57):
the hands there.
You know, when I did go out, Ithought maybe there's something
I've missed, maybe I've notattached this belt correctly to
the bra to, you know, reallymake it perform like I think I
did.
But yeah, when I went for arun, I I felt that relief.
It was just insane.
I for the first time ever, Ithought, oh my god, this is the
best bra I've ever owned at thispoint.
Sue Anstiss (08:18):
How funny is that?
That is so true, isn't it?
That you see girls running oryou see people running, you just
hold your breath on top,wouldn't you?
You wouldn't hold you wouldn'tcut yourself underneath.
That is so true.
Yeah.
And I I you've alluded there towhy you think the big brands
hadn't researched that.
And you you as an organizationwere researched that.
But but it is remarkable, isn'tit?
I think it was like the 1970s,when it was sports bras kind of
(08:39):
first started.
And so it's like 50 years ofresearch and talking about and
the growth in the marketplace.
It seems weird almost that thathadn't been explored before.
Mari Thomas-Welland (08:49):
Yeah, and to think that, you know, we sent
a man to the moon before thesports bra was invented.
How insane is that?
Sue Anstiss (08:56):
It's mad, isn't it?
We I saw a question documentarythe day from the from the 70s,
actually, and there were peopleout running and jogging.
I thought, well, that's justmad, isn't it?
You could see these womenrunning in regular bras and
thinking that it doesn't reallyfeel that long ago that you know
that it didn't even exist forwomen to be out running and
exercising and aerobics and allthose things of the sort of the
(09:17):
80s and 90s as it took off.
Mari Thomas-Welland (09:19):
Absolutely, and especially for women as
well.
It's there's so much researchand development and funding that
goes into footwear, and we allknow how important it is to look
after your running gear andyour shoe, and but for women,
having a sports bra that's agood sports bra is just as
important, but up till now it'snot really being considered on
the same kind of level.
(09:40):
And so I'm really passionate aswell as getting women to look
at sports bras as an importantpiece of technical gear as your
footwear, and so treating themboth the same, placing them as
often as each other and givingthem the same level of attention
so that you make sure that youare comfortable running.
Because if you don't haveeither of those things, then it
can literally stop unit tracks.
Sue Anstiss (09:59):
And what was the toughest technical design
breakthrough in terms of movingfrom that idea and the charity
shop band to a finished product?
So talk us a little bit throughthat process.
Mari Thomas-Welland (10:11):
Yeah, so I knew that the overband is what
makes the special.
That's what's unique to all ofour bras.
And so the the most challengingpart for me was actually how to
fix it to the bra becausethey're all all of our bras have
that integrated into it.
It's not a separate thing thatyou buy, it's a sports bra that
comes with an integratedoverband in it.
We actually have a couple ofmodels.
So one that has an adjustableoverband, so you can adjust the
(10:33):
tension of that overband overyour chest.
So if you're having a bigger orsmaller time of the month, or
if you wanted a little bit moreextra support for the activity
that you're doing, then you cantighten the overband on the
sides as well.
But on some of our models, it'sfixed in at a predetermined
tension.
And so it was quite tricky tofigure that out and how that was
going to fix into a good placeon the bra so that it would do
(10:54):
the job that it's meant to doand also not irritate anybody.
And I also wanted to make surethat I wasn't releasing like
this Frankenstein-looking brathat people are like, oh my god,
that looks scary.
I'm not going anywhere nearthat.
I still wanted to make surethat it looked like a good bra,
but had this extra bit oftechnology to it that was going
to offer you more support andconfidence.
(11:16):
So I wanted to make sure therewas obvious what he was doing,
but didn't look scary.
But yeah, all the uh it wasfixing into the bra at the right
points.
Sue Anstiss (11:24):
And you've clearly, clearly done that.
I did message you after Ibought my bra to tell you
because how amazed I was.
I loved it, I love the fit, Ilove the feel, the fabric, the
width of the straps, the wide,the secure fasting was so much
about it that was lovely.
So I am intrigued to know howdo you balance that science and
all the engineering with thatneed for style and comfort and
(11:46):
all, you know, and I love thecolour.
I mean, I'm a big fan, as youcan tell.
But but that balance is istricky, isn't it, to get those
things.
Exactly.
Mari Thomas-Welland (11:53):
And I could see that in my trials at the
time.
I honestly I learned so muchfrom my sports bra testing days
that have been carried forwardinto what I do now.
I um I it's an incrediblyvaluable experience.
And so I recognized while I wasdoing those trials and those
testings that you can bring outthe best uh performing bra in
the world.
If it looks ugly, people arenot gonna buy it.
(12:15):
So it's really, reallyimportant to have all those
elements thought about duringthe design process because it
can be, you know, make or break.
It's you know, you do need tomake sure that you do have a
good-looking bra at the end ofthe day, too, as well as it
performing really well.
So I did want Maori to be builton foundations of science and
engineering and that you know wedo put performance first, but
(12:38):
also we haven't forgotten aboutthe design element, and that
does come into it after as well.
So we do want to make sure thatwe we have both so that it's a
good-looking and high-performingsports bra.
Sue Anstiss (12:47):
Yeah, that's so interesting, isn't it?
And that's so true, isn't it?
I think about old sports brasI've had in the past and
whatever that don't look more, Iwas gonna say medicinal.
I don't mean medicinal, butoverly functional and not a
beautiful thing.
And actually, you want to putyour kit on and feel good in it
as well, too.
And especially, I guess, withmany younger women, not me, but
that whole exercising just injust for I mean as Serena showed
(13:08):
in her pictures, womenexercising and showing their
sports bras, and actually youwant that it to look as good as
the rest of your kit.
What's to stop other bigmanufacturers now jumping on
board and going, oh, we like theold band and incorporating that
in their designs?
Is that a concern for you?
Mari Thomas-Welland (13:22):
So it is something that we've always
thought about since thebeginning.
So we've always made sure toget the IP wherever we can and
to make sure that we protectourselves as much as we possibly
can too.
Uh, we have seen a couple ofbrands already trying to, you
know, bring out somethingsimilar.
And you know, thankfully thatwe've, you know, I tried some of
those bras and they are not,you know, to the same standards
(13:43):
as ours.
So they are missing that kindof little bit of magic.
But I think I just think ourbra is is so well thought
through.
And if someone was to kind ofjump on that and trying to copy
someone else, it's it's nevergoing to be as good as the real
thing.
And so, yeah, I always thinkthat you always have to, you
know, stay true to yourself andbuild on the foundations that
you have as a company, and thatshould hopefully carry you
through.
Sue Anstiss (14:04):
I love that.
And launching a brand's nevereasy, is it?
So, what was the scariest leapyou feel you had to make in
those early days of gettingstarted?
Mari Thomas-Welland (14:12):
Oh my gosh, I had so many of them.
It's difficult to pick onebecause I I've never done any
business courses or anythinglike that.
And so I didn't go toLuftborough and do a sports
engineering degree thinking atthe end of this, I want to start
a business.
That was never really my goal.
I was just interested in sportsproducts and helping women.
I just happened to kind ofstumble across this idea, which
(14:35):
I thought was good, and thendevelop myself.
And so suddenly I thought, ohmy God, I've got a business and
I don't have any businessexperience whatsoever.
Nobody in my family has anybusiness experience.
And so a lot of it was justlearning as you go, which uh I
think I quickly realized youjust have to get comfortable
with being uncomfortable andfiguring out how this all is
(14:57):
built from the bottom up, Ithink, is also a really good way
to build a company because thenyou don't you know everything
that you're hiring for butunderneath you because you've
done it already.
Because you've had to figurethat out yourself.
Sue Anstiss (15:07):
Mary was taken off as uh COVID hit.
So how did you manage to keepthe business alive and and even
grow it during that period?
Because it was such when whenwas it?
When when did you have yourfirst bras?
Mari Thomas-Welland (15:18):
Gosh, so yeah, December 2018 was the
first time that we launched.
And so we had a year beforeCOVID hit, which is not very
long, and it was a very toughtime for the business.
So we were due to get a restockin in the February 2020, and
that never happened, uh,unfortunately, because of COVID
hitting.
And so we kind of had to waitout the storm a bit and you
(15:40):
know, try and keep peopleinterested and remind people
that we're here and don't forgetabout us because we had just
gone completely out of stock byMarch.
And so I was suddenly a sportsbra company with no sports bras
to sell, which was an incrediblyscary feeling.
Unfortunately, we had, youknow, very low outgoing.
So um I was I was able to kindof manage the storm a bit.
(16:00):
But then we have to turn thesemistakes into opportunities.
And so that's when the idea foronline fittings came around.
So I knew that I wanted to getpeople in our sports bras when
they arrived back.
So to keep people interestedand so that they knew what size
they needed to get once thestock was back in, then I was
gonna fit them.
But obviously, we couldn't dothat in person anymore.
(16:21):
So I introduced onlinefittings.
I was doing them one day onlyand see how they went on.
But they were so successful, Iwas completely fully booked.
And so I thought, okay, I'll doit again next month.
And then I thought that turnedinto a monthly thing, which then
turned into a weekly thing,which turned into a multi, it's
multiple times a week now.
And they worked so well for usthat we still do them today.
And they are one of the reasonsthat people keep coming back to
(16:43):
us because they just feel liketheir hand is being held
throughout the process, becauseso many women have question
marks around their size and whatstyle they need, that it's
become one of our cornerstonesas a business.
I think it's one of the reasonspeople keep coming back to us.
But we did actually go, I thinksix or seven months without any
stock during COVID.
And so when I finally openedorders again in October,
(17:07):
November time, fortunately, wehave our best sales day ever,
which is still our record day todate.
Like it was such a good day ofsales that we were able to kind
of kickstart the business again.
And we actually made up, wepredicted all the sales we would
have done in that six to sevenmonth period, and we did all of
that in that first day, whichwas incredible.
Sue Anstiss (17:25):
Oh wow, wow.
And did you ever think aboutjacking it all in and going to
try something different duringCOVID where you were so
frustrated with not havingstock?
Or did you see the passion wasthere for the brand?
Mari Thomas-Welland (17:36):
We didn't I didn't think that at all,
actually.
I was very frustrated, and itwas a very tough time.
But I just I loved what I do,and there was such a a calling
from our audience for our brasto come back.
So I could feel there was aneed there, and we can fulfill
that.
We just it was so frustratinggetting our bras back in to
(17:58):
stock.
So I knew that kind of thatflood was coming, but it was
just so frustrating to be ableto kind of keep telling people,
so sorry, not yet, not yet.
Sue Anstiss (18:08):
And it does feel like community is so central to
everything you've done withMary.
How has that kind of sisterhoodof your supporters shaped the
journey?
It's obviously so importantthere during COVID, but but as
the time's gone on, has thatbeen maintained?
Mari Thomas-Welland (18:23):
Yeah, and and that's something we really
want to be concentrating on moregoing forward as well.
We're going to be dedicatingmore time to that because we do
know how important it is and howintegral it's been to our
journey so far.
So it is something wedefinitely want to keep building
on because I feel like we aretapping into a community of
women who really get what we'retrying to do and really believe
(18:43):
in the same things that webelieve in.
And so we want to be putting onmore events, more you know,
more activities that we can allmeet up at and do amazing things
and support one another.
So watch this space.
Sue Anstiss (18:55):
Lovely.
I went back to Love Bratchley acouple of weeks ago.
I was at a women's healthconference and was blown away by
a presentation about sportsbras and breast health from
Professor Deirdre McGee.
And I realized when I waslistening, there's so much that
I don't know that can I feelI've been around this space for
a while, but so much I didn'tknow, especially around the
anatomy of the breast andmovement and impact and the
(19:15):
things that you've alluded tothen.
So, what do you feel are stillsome of the most common myths
and mistakes that women aremaking in the sports bra space?
Mari Thomas-Welland (19:24):
So I feel like a lot of a myth, um, one of
the biggest myths is that uh wehave a lot of women coming up
to us saying, Oh, I'm too smallto need a sports bra.
And I always think, oh, okay.
I mean, you will need probablydifferent levels of support than
someone who is larger chested,but you shouldn't negate that as
thinking, oh, I don't need anysupport whatsoever, because
(19:45):
there's a lot of research outthere that shows that even A
cups will move, you know, yourbreasts will move four
centimeters when you're running.
Sue Anstiss (19:52):
Wow.
Mari Thomas-Welland (19:53):
And so that's still something.
And you want to be making surethat you look after yourself and
protect the ligaments in yourum in your chest to make sure
that you are looking after yourbody.
And then that's compared to, Ithink if if you're an F cup, I
believe, then your boost canmove up to 14 centimeters when
you're running.
And so you can just see thatthere is a difference there, but
even A cups do also move.
(20:15):
So you need to make sure thatyou've got the right support for
you still.
So I say that's the biggestmyth.
With regards to the biggestmistake, that is undoubtedly
that women uh and men, butmostly women, will still be
getting their bra size wrong.
They misunderstand how brasizing actually works.
So, what I mean by this is forexample, let's say someone's a
(20:36):
size 34D, and so they think, oh,I'm a 34 back, I'm a D chest.
And then if they want to godown a back size and then they
go, okay, now I need a 32D,that's actually not correct
because a D cup, it will besmaller on a smaller back sizes
and bigger on bigger back sizes.
So the letter in your bra sizedoes not represent a specific
(20:59):
volume.
Those letters even vary acrossback sizes.
So if you actually to go down aback size to a 32, you actually
need to go up a cup letter justto keep the same volume.
So 32 double D and 34D areactually the same size breast
volume.
And that's what people aregetting wrong most of the time.
So that if they change theirbra size, they're doing it
(21:20):
incorrectly.
And so there's no wonder thatpeople are wearing the wrong
size because they don't know howto how to pick their bra size
out correctly, which iscompletely understandable.
Sue Anstiss (21:28):
It's so interesting, isn't it?
Is that historical, what we'vegrown up with, what we've heard
in the past, all that kind ofmyths and lack of conversations
that that needs to change.
Uh, what difference do youthink it could make generally to
especially talk about teenagegirls dropping out of sport?
But if we could get more girlsin the right supportive sports
bras or just in sports bras,what difference and impact do
(21:49):
you think that could have?
Oh, 100%.
Mari Thomas-Welland (21:51):
It's one of the main reasons that girls
drop out of sport at such ayoung age.
And so if we can get rid ofthat barrier, then and suddenly
get, you know, talking moreopenly about sports bras from
such a young age or providingthem, you know, more regularly
in schools, then you know, thedrop rate will will decrease.
And so we want to make surethat we're keeping more girls in
(22:12):
sport and leading healthy,active lifestyles.
Because for me, uh I'm sureyou'll find this too, Sue, but
sport offers more to me thanjust keeping healthy or keeping
fit.
Like it gets you social skills,skills, it gets you leadership
skills, it gets you a sociallife.
It just gives you so much morethan what you think it does on
the on the face of it.
Sue Anstiss (22:32):
I think, yeah.
And for me, it's always aboutjoy and happiness and
connection.
It's all sometimes we forgetthat those lovely elements of
playing games in sport, don'twe?
To kind of think about theother elements it contributes.
Uh, we talked about Serenabeing seen in your sports bras,
but along with her, you've alsoworked more formally with
Lioness, Millie Bright, andSuperstar, Neville Superstar,
(22:55):
Eleanor Caldwell.
So, why has it been importantto you to partner with athletes,
especially athletes that arevery happy to use their voices
for social purpose?
Mari Thomas-Welland (23:05):
Absolutely.
And these have been reallyorganic relationships as well.
So they've either had problemswith sports bras in the past and
have wanted to try it mine, orum, you know, they've reached
out to us because they've hadproblems and have heard how good
our sports bras are.
So the relationship has alwaysbeen very organic, and we're
always really passionate aboutpartnering with people who are
voices in this community foreither sports bras or uh female
(23:28):
empowerment, which is againeverything that we stand for.
So yeah, we love partneringwith Millie and also with Elna
because they're both strongwomen in the sport who don't
mind, you know, calling thingsout and making sure that they,
you know, that the industry iscatering for them and, you know,
making sure that women's kit isheld to a higher standard and
(23:48):
voicing their concerns when theythink they have one.
So yes, they're fantasticathletes and we love them for
that, but also we love thatthey're strong women as well.
Sue Anstiss (23:57):
Alongside selling in the UK, you also now deliver
across Europe and the USA andAustralia.
Did you imagine the brand wouldgo global so quickly?
Mari Thomas-Welland (24:08):
No, not absolutely, absolutely not.
Because we've never done anymarketing in any of those other
territories, just the UK.
Wow.
And the fact that people arehearing about us in all of these
different territories, and wethink suddenly thinking, oh my
gosh, we need to better caterfor these uh markets and making
sure that they have a good, youknow, customer experience.
So yeah, that the kind of thedemand came, and so we needed to
(24:29):
make sure that we were cateringfor them really well.
And so I can't wait to see whatwe can do in all these
territories too, with the UKbeing our main focus still, but
it's so great to see that we'regetting some kind of organic
reach in these other places aswell.
Sue Anstiss (24:41):
And you've also expanded into leggings and tees
and the brilliantly namedsisterhoodie.
I love that.
I really love that.
Thank you.
So, what are your uhlonger-term plans in terms of
kind of sportswear and expansioninto that bigger space?
Mari Thomas-Welland (24:55):
Yeah, so we do want to become a sportswear
company for women.
And so, like other big brandshave done before now, so like
Nike did with shoes and likeLululemon did with leggings,
they started with a specificproduct and became known for
that.
And so I want to make sure thatwe still focus really heavily
on sports bras.
Yeah, we need to be known forthat, and that's the reason that
(25:18):
people are going to be comingto us.
But we do want to make surethen we are then expanding our
range beyond the sports bra sothat we can become that kind of
all-rounder sportswear brand.
Sue Anstiss (25:28):
And how is it going now without giving away any
business secrets or anythingthat you're working on?
But what's the proportion ofyour either your time or your
investment in terms of productsbeyond the sports bra?
Mari Thomas-Welland (25:38):
So, yeah, we are like I said, we're still
concentrating on sports brasmainly for the foreseeable
future, but we are alreadyadding pieces to our collection
so that people can wear fulloutfits together, you know, have
matching pieces and evenproviding other pieces that are
supportive in one way oranother.
Because, like I said, we areall about supporting women.
So, for example, leggings thatare really sculpting are going
(26:01):
to hold you kind of in as well.
And so, yeah, I feel like aslong as they are all about
supporting women, then we arefor it too.
Sue Anstiss (26:08):
And what are the pinch points that you're facing?
Did you look to scale furtherand grow?
And I it's lovely because I'vekind of watched your journey and
and seen both the profile andthe popularity, but obviously
the availability and you know,people commenting on how amazing
the products are.
But where do you see thosepinch points right now as you
scale further?
Mari Thomas-Welland (26:28):
So I know that we do we do so many sizes.
We have in our at our peak,we've done 52 sizes across our
bras, which is a lot ofinfantry, especially if we want
to do it in lots of colours.
So, as you can imagine, that isquite tricky to you manage,
especially across differentterritories.
And so that's something that weare keeping an eye on going
(26:48):
forward.
We know there's one of thereasons, again, that people keep
coming to us.
They love the amount of sizethat we have.
So we don't want to be gettingrid of that, but we just need to
figure out a better way tomanage it and making sure that
we can kind of cater to as manypeople as we can, but still
managing that inventory levelgoing forward.
So that's always something thatwe're evaluating going forward.
Sue Anstiss (27:07):
That's really interesting, isn't it?
Because almost like that easeis having less, less of a range
to have that diversity of sizes.
But I can imagine that is toughto stop.
Mari Thomas-Welland (27:17):
We picked a tricky product to start with.
Sue Anstiss (27:19):
It's so true, isn't it?
When you think about, I haven'tthought about that before.
But you think about shoes, likeit is quite simply how many
sizes of shoes you need.
It is so different in a sportsbar, isn't it?
Yeah.
Many people kind of come intothe space, do you think, and
then fall over around that, notalmost not thinking about that
vast range that's needed.
Mari Thomas-Welland (27:36):
Absolutely.
And especially if you don'tknow what size you are, or you
think you know your size, butyou have you know different
issues like oh, chafing or notgetting enough support, those
issues are probably related toyour size.
But because they're coming intothis process thinking they
already know their size, thenthey might not change their
size.
And so it's just basicallyreaching out to those women and
making them question whetherthey're in the right size to
begin with.
(27:56):
And if they're not sure, thenwe can help them along with the
way too.
Sue Anstiss (27:59):
And how important is external investment for your
growth?
Where are you in in thatjourney?
Mari Thomas-Welland (28:04):
So we have taken on our first round of
investment last year.
So that was our first everround.
And so, yeah, we are on thatjourney and it's helped us
immensely.
So we have now gone intoretail, which is fantastic.
So um up till now, we've onlydone D2C, um, so just direct to
consumer.
And so we've done all of oursales through our website only
and fitted everyone online oryou know, at little pop-up
(28:27):
events that we go to every nowand then, like the running show,
for example.
And so now that we've gone intoretail, people can actually
physically try us on in personagain in different locations,
which is fantastic.
We have a list of those on ourwebsite if anybody wants to
check them out.
Sue Anstiss (28:41):
Where are you without without specifically
wanting you to list them all?
But where might people findyou?
Mari Thomas-Welland (28:47):
So there's lots of different places.
We've just signed um with BoobyDoo, for example.
So they're up in Derby.
Oh, good.
And then there's also Run andBecome in London and Victoria,
and then there's lots ofindependent shops in between as
well.
So you can look at them all onour website.
Sue Anstiss (29:01):
And is that your ambition to be in a bigger
chain?
Is that is that the bit thatwill make a massive difference
for the brand?
Or actually, is it theindependent running outlets and
sports outlets where you youfeel the home is?
Mari Thomas-Welland (29:13):
So not to have too much of a pun, but
we'll let's we're gonna try andwalk before we can run.
Yeah.
So we want to make sure thatwe, you know, we're gonna cater
for those smaller independentones to begin with, making sure
that our stock levels aremanaged correctly over the next
little while, making sure thatwe can, you know, add one or two
more.
And then who knows?
We can then build up to see whowho else we can go with and
(29:34):
maybe go on a larger scale.
But we're gonna make sure thatwe can do things properly before
we get even that level first.
Sue Anstiss (29:40):
And I imagine have knowing you and knowing I've
been for a fitting in in uh inso London, actually.
That's right.
But just the the quality ofthose people fitting.
I guess that's a real key piecefor you as well.
It isn't just about having theproduct in stock, it's about
making sure the people that areuh fitting meet your quality of
standards too.
Mari Thomas-Welland (29:59):
Absolutely.
And that's something we want tomake sure of when we do go
around and build theserelationships with these
retailers, is making sure thatwe have a training day with them
and that we make sure that youknow they are fitting in the
same way that we do.
But not just that, butidentifying the issues that
women currently have, you know,the reason they're coming into
the store that day and saying, Ieven do sports bra because of
XYZ.
And so identifying through thatconversation what needs
(30:22):
improving as well and what stylewould be best for them.
So yeah, all very importantstuff and one that we want to
continue with all our retailersas well.
Sue Anstiss (30:30):
I feel like Mary stands for support in many
different ways.
And we've talked about thesupport of people and obviously
the whole process of support.
But what does that mean to you?
I guess personally, what doessupport mean to you?
What do you where do you feelyou've got that from the
community personally andprofessionally?
Mari Thomas-Welland (30:46):
So I think it's just all about supporting
one another.
And so again, like I said, it'sin every sense of that word.
So support could be providing abetter sports bra so that I can
now go and run confidently andwithout any pain.
But then in other words, itcould be, you know, through an
event that we do and we supportyou with the education that we
have so that you know, so youfeel empowered about going out
(31:08):
bra shopping on your own goingforward and through motherhood
as well.
So basically, if someone hasjust given birth and they need a
different sports bra becausethey now need to breastfeed.
So making sure that they haveall the tools for all the stages
of their lives and with itobviously not just being
constrained to sports bras aswell, but to the education and
other tools that we can providewomen to make sure that they are
(31:28):
empowered to lead the livesthat they want to.
Sue Anstiss (31:30):
It sounds like, as I talked to you, like you're
thoroughly enjoying it, andobviously it's been challenging.
D do you love what you do?
Is it again?
It must be frustrating and sortof sleepless nights in terms of
logistics and funding and soon, but but are you enjoying the
process?
Mari Thomas-Welland (31:45):
I really, really am.
And like you said, there therewill be days where you feel like
you want to pull your hair outand things are not going your
way.
But if you're still gettingthrough those days and still
thinking, I really like what Ido, then I think you're probably
on the right path.
And yeah, I thoroughly,thoroughly like love what I do,
and especially speaking topeople at live events and in
(32:06):
person, and then relaying backto us say things like, Oh, I saw
you last year, I've got yourbra, it's made such a big deal
for us.
I've come back from another,and it's like, oh, that stuff is
what what gets me going, whatkeeps me going.
Sue Anstiss (32:17):
I love it.
I was just joining a long lineof women sending you an email
going, Oh my god, it's it's soamazing.
I love it so much.
And looking ahead, what impactdo you want Mary to have on
women's sport in the next five,ten years?
Where do you see things going?
Mari Thomas-Welland (32:32):
I would love to support more and more
women around the country.
So, you know, that's why wehave such a vast array of sizes.
You know, there isn't that onesports bra out there that's
gonna suit everybody.
Like we know that.
So it's making sure that wehave a good collection to suit
most women as best as we canwith you know the different
stages of their day, even letalone their life.
(32:53):
And so I want to make sure thatwe're becoming the the hub that
women go to so that they getthe education around bras,
around sports bras, and thenalso hopefully buy from us as
well.
Sue Anstiss (33:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
It does feel, again, from theoutside, but it feels very
authentic.
You've got a lovelyrelationship, I think, with
Copper Feel in my bra.
I've got a little logo about soyou've and I guess the
affiliation with athletes, itdoes feel like you've gone out
very intelligently to kind ofform some of those partnerships
and work with differentpartners.
Is that obviously important toyou to make sure you're
authentically partnering withthe right organizations?
Mari Thomas-Welland (33:24):
Absolutely, because your audience will be
able to see straight throughthat if it's inauthentic.
And so we've never ever triedto be someone that we're not.
And I think I especially am thevery target audience for this
brand, uh, which is helpfulbecause then I know I know the
kind of things I want to see andthe kind of relationships that
(33:45):
I would like to form.
And so, yeah, the the instantthat you start viewing off of
that track of authenticity, thenpeople will start to see
straight through you.
Sue Anstiss (33:54):
And are there specific sports?
I mean, you're working, I feellike you're a bit sport
agnostic.
You're working across lots ofsports, but are there any
specific sports that have reallyadopted the kind of Marie bra
and done a lot with you?
Mari Thomas-Welland (34:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Like I said, we we've startedout in running um because we
just felt like that appealed tothe mass market and people
understand then what the bra istrying to achieve.
But like you said, we've delvedinto lots more specific sports
after that.
And funny enough, probably theone of our first ones after
running was during COVID,skipping really took off.
(34:28):
And so we became really knownin the skipping community for
being the bra that you go for tostop that bounce because you're
bouncing up and down a lot, butyou know, you don't want your
booze to go go away from you,and so yeah, skipping was one of
the first ones, and now as youcan see, we've gone into
netball, football, rugby aswell.
(34:48):
So we are starting to kind ofdip our toes into those other
sports in in quite an excitingand interesting way, I think.
So yeah, we'll see what comesnext.
Sue Anstiss (34:58):
It's very exciting.
And and just finally, whatwould you say to any other women
that might be listening to thiswith a perhaps a product idea
who's wondering is it reallyworth pursuing?
You know, what what would youradvice be to them?
Mari Thomas-Welland (35:11):
I would say really, you know, really test
it thoroughly.
And like I did, you need tosleep on it a little bit and
make sure that there is really agap in this market.
It does definitely help whenyou are your own target customer
because I was looking out for agood sports bra for most of my
life and was failing at it, so Icould just see that there was a
good gap in the market tofulfill and get some good
(35:34):
mentors on board too, because Ithink that's a really good way
to bounce some ideas off ofsomeone because it can be quite
lonely being your own CEO in acompany of one.
Sue Anstiss (35:44):
Have you found that support?
So the mentors have beenimportant to you in terms of the
business, are the women or menand women that have been in this
space?
Mari Thomas-Welland (35:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
And groups like the Women'sSport Collective are really
helpful for that.
You know, at the end of yourfan in a WhatsApp group, there
is lots of women to talk to andwho would have gone through this
experience before you.
And so it's a really good wayto, yeah, communicate with lots
of other people who are goingthrough the same thing as you
and not feeling alone.
Sue Anstiss (36:12):
Lovely.
I often think that that fandersgroup is so nice, is even if
women aren't sharing or justwatching the conversations that
are going on, you get a lot fromthat if you were at the early
stages.
Exactly.
Mari Thomas-Welland (36:23):
I don't I don't necessarily participate in
every single conversation, butI do see all of it.
And so you can like jump inwhenever you feel like you can
either contribute or get somehelp.
Sue Anstiss (36:32):
And I wonder what would you have done if it hadn't
been sports bras?
And I look thinking back to thedegree that you did at
Loughborough, going full circle.
Was there anything else, anyother area that you might have
taken if it hadn't been thesports bras space?
Mari Thomas-Welland (36:44):
To be honest, I was the the the only
thing I was thinking of beforebefore sports bras, and it's
simply because that's what themajority of everyone else was
thinking on the course, is thatyou end up going into footwear
because that was, you know, thethe sexy topic at the time, and
everyone wears footwear, and soit just felt like everyone on
the course wanted to go intofootwear at some point.
So I just kind of was followingthe crowd because that sounded
(37:07):
great.
But yeah, once realizing sportsbras were just as important, I
thought, eh, wait a minute, thisis this is more interesting.
Sue Anstiss (37:19):
What a joy to hear more from Mary about her
sportswear journey.
We look forward to followingand seeing where that all goes
in the future.
If you'd like to hear fromother Trailblazers, there are
over 200 episodes of the GameChangers podcast that are all
free to listen to on mostplatforms or from our website at
fearlesswomen.co.uk.
Along with entrepreneurs, youcan hear from elite athletes,
(37:43):
coaches, broadcasters,scientists, journalists, and
CEOs, all women who are changingthe game in sport.
As well as listening to all thepodcasts on the website, you
can also find out more about theWomen's Sport Collective, a
free, inclusive community forall women working at all levels
of sport.
We now have over 14,000 membersacross the world, so please do
(38:07):
come and join us.
The whole of my book, Game Onthe Unstoppable Rise of Women's
Sport, is also free to listen toon the podcast.
Every episode of series 13 isme reading a chapter of the
book.
Thank you to Sport England forbacking the Game Changers and
the Women's Sport Collectivewith a National Lottery Award,
and to Sam Walker at What GoesOn Media, who does such an
(38:29):
excellent job as our executiveproducer.
Thank you, as always, to mybrilliant colleague at Fearless
Women, Kate Hannon.
The Game Changers is availableon all podcast platforms, so
please follow us now to ensureyou don't miss out on future
episodes.
Do come and say hello on socialmedia where you'll find me on
(38:50):
LinkedIn and Instagram at SueAnstus.
The Game Changers.
Fearless women in sport.
And to think that we sent a man to the
moon before the sports bra wasinvented.
How insane is that.
Sue Anstiss (00:15):
Mari Thomas-Welland is a pioneering founder of
MAAREE, the sports bra brandredefining women's performance
wear.
In this episode of The GameChangers, I talk to the sports
engineer-turned entrepreneurabout how she's combined her
technical expertise with her ownsporting experience.
To design bras and sportswearthat truly empower women to move
(00:39):
with confidence.
Mari's groundbreakinginnovations are now trusted by
women across the world,including international sports
stars like Serena Williams andLioness Millie Bright, cementing
Mari's reputation as the go-tobrand for support, comfort and
performance.
Mari, can I start with thoseincredible images of Serena
(01:04):
Williams in your sports bra?
How did it feel to wake up inthe morning and see the internet
full of her gym selfies showingoff her six-pack in a MAAREE
Sports bra?
Mari Thomas-Welland (01:14):
Oh my god, it was insane.
It was one of those momentswhere you're only first down at
a brand and people like, oh, whowould you love to get in your
in your in your products?
And my aim was always like, oh,I would love if I could get my
bras back on Serena.
That would be amazing.
Always thinking, that'sprobably a very far shot in the
dark.
You're probably not going toget there.
But when that moment actuallyhappened, I, oh my God, I was
(01:35):
running around the house.
I was telling everybody, I wasputting in all my WhatsApp
groups.
It was so cool to see that theyhad reached her and she loves
them.
And I've had feedback from herteam saying that they're
incredible.
So yeah, it was an unbelievablemoment and one that's right up
there.
Sue Anstiss (01:52):
It was all over my social media feed at the time
and people sharing it andexcited for you as well, and
excited for the brand too.
That's so sweet.
Did it have an impact, anoticeable impact in terms of
awareness and sales for you?
Mari Thomas-Welland (02:04):
Absolutely.
So yeah, we had a lot ofpeople, I had a lot of people
reaching out to me saying thatthey saw the bra, uh, how
amazing that was because youknow Serena is beyond sport,
even isn't she?
She's she's so much bigger thanthan the sport that she's in.
And so it was so incredible tosee that.
And I would know next time Iwould love it if we got a tag.
Obviously, she's probably uhprobably restricted to what she
(02:24):
can post about with her dealsand everything, but it would be
so incredible if hopefullysometime in the future we could
get a tag as well.
That'd be fantastic.
But we'll see.
We'll see what happens.
Sue Anstiss (02:33):
And did you find out how she came across it,
where she found it from herteam?
Have they told you how it cameto be on her?
Mari Thomas-Welland (02:40):
So her team actually reached out to us.
Strangely enough, like it wasagain one of those messages that
comes in and you think, Thiscan't be real.
Like I didn't believe it at thestart.
And um, as soon as I read themessage, and someone was like,
Oh yeah, we'd love to get yourbras on Serena, uh, and then get
her to try them out becauseshe's she struggles with this
area.
And so I was like, okay, Idon't not sure if I this is a
(03:02):
true message.
So I did a lot of research andI was like, okay, is this right?
Is this coming from the rightemail address and things like
that?
And then once I confirmed thatthat was right, I was like,
okay, let's you can havewhatever you want.
Yeah, absolutely.
So then I put a little packagetogether for her, and again,
only being 90% confident reallythat this is going to a
legitimate source, and I wasn'tbeing catfished or anything like
(03:25):
that.
So I still had no idea for agood few weeks that if they had
actually been received by her orshe likes them, or you can like
that.
Still no idea if it was true.
And then when the image cameout, I was like, oh my gosh,
okay, it was true all along.
This is amazing.
Sue Anstiss (03:40):
Well, it's purpless, isn't it?
Because it's not just the factthat you got them to her and to
try them, but then she likedthem enough to be pictured in
them.
And there are many otherbrands, you know, that she's
associated with that she couldhave been wearing.
So she said it that's the kindof proof in that image.
Mari Thomas-Welland (03:55):
Absolutely.
And the feed, and I've hadfeedback from her team with them
showing messages from hersaying how much she loves the
bras and how much she'simpressed by them.
So even without the post, thatwould have been just such a
heartwarming moment for me.
Absolutely.
Sue Anstiss (04:08):
As a fellow Loughborough alumni, graduate, I
love that that's where yourentrepreneurial journey started.
So can you take us back to whatyou realized the sports bra
industry perhaps was failingwomen?
And what sort of sparked yourpassion to fix that?
Mari Thomas-Welland (04:24):
I've always been a keen sportswoman.
I played hockey all the waythrough school and to a pretty
decent level.
And so I always knew I wantedto do something in sports, but I
was more interested on theproduct side of sports.
So I did sports engineering atLoughborough, uh, which was an
amazing course.
I had so much fun on thatcourse.
And I was fortunate enoughafter to get a job in the
department testing theperformance of sports bras for
(04:46):
other brands.
And so there's only two placesin the UK which has that kind of
research and development centerfor sports bras.
So Lefeba being one andPortsmouth being the other.
So I thought this was anamazing opportunity that I got
all of a sudden, and obviouslyone that I was interested in
personally as well, because Icould never find the perfect
sports bra for myself.
(05:07):
I never really questioned it upto that point.
I was wearing two sports brasat a time, realized so many
other women were as well.
So I just suddenly felt kind ofreally interested to learn more
about this subject.
And so all the women who wouldkind of turn up for my trials
were also really interested infinding their perfect sports bra
because they couldn't findtheir right one.
And a lot of these big brandsused to come to us and say, Oh,
(05:29):
we need to reduce, you know,downwards motion of uh by X
percent in this bra.
And he's like, Okay, great.
But I can see from thoseresults that your booze move in
a figure of eight when you'rerunning.
And so just to concentrate onreducing downwards motion felt
really short-sighted to me.
And I used to tell them, whydon't you put something over the
top?
Because if you can stop yourbooze coming up so much, then
they won't come down so much.
(05:49):
But this either kind of nevermade its way back up the food
chain, or you know, they werelooking for a marketing claim.
But um, you know, it was a fewa few years later, and this this
um idea still never really leftmy mind.
And it occurred to me, like ifthe big brands are coming to us
to do their research, that mustmean all the other brands are
doing nothing.
So there's no surprise reallythat there's such a big gap of
(06:14):
knowledge in this industry, sothat so many women can't find
their right support because themarket doesn't sound like that.
It's catering for the women init.
So it kind of makes sense tome.
Like, why actually can't I dosomething about this?
Because I'm part of only twoplaces in the UK that has all
this knowledge.
So why not me?
I started asking myself, whynot me instead of why me?
(06:35):
And so yeah, that's kind ofwhen I thought, right, I'm gonna
do something about this.
I went to a charity shop oneday and I bought a belt of all
things, and I adapted it to suitthe shape of my body and
attached it to a sports bra thatI had in my wardrobe already.
And so I went for a run.
And even without all that fancyequipment, I could feel how
much of a difference it made.
The amount of bounce reductionI was getting in that bra with
(06:59):
that new belt on top compared towhen I didn't have that belt
on, was so significant that Ithought, okay, this idea's got
something in it.
So then, yeah, I went to kindof find some new suppliers to
help me develop some prototypes.
And yet, now we developed theonly sports bras in the world
with overbound technology.
Sue Anstiss (07:16):
And how did it feel?
When you took it, it'sobviously you had that idea, and
then you and I love that storyof the kind of DIY prototype
with the elastic belt.
But how did it feel?
When you then ran and you thataha moment of this has actually
worked, was that a surprise?
Did you anticipate that wouldbe the case from the stuff that
you'd researched before?
Mari Thomas-Welland (07:36):
I mean, I could feel like I could feel
there was there's definitelyways to improve the sports bra.
And I just in my mind, I hadn'tobviously put it into something
physical yet.
I just thought this idea'sgotta work.
Like, you know, when women arerunning and they feel like
they've got too much bounce,they put their hands over the
top of their chest.
They don't support themselvesby putting it underneath.
And so I just thought, there'ssomething that's gotta replace
(07:57):
the hands there.
You know, when I did go out, Ithought maybe there's something
I've missed, maybe I've notattached this belt correctly to
the bra to, you know, reallymake it perform like I think I
did.
But yeah, when I went for arun, I I felt that relief.
It was just insane.
I for the first time ever, Ithought, oh my god, this is the
best bra I've ever owned at thispoint.
Sue Anstiss (08:18):
How funny is that?
That is so true, isn't it?
That you see girls running oryou see people running, you just
hold your breath on top,wouldn't you?
You wouldn't hold you wouldn'tcut yourself underneath.
That is so true.
Yeah.
And I I you've alluded there towhy you think the big brands
hadn't researched that.
And you you as an organizationwere researched that.
But but it is remarkable, isn'tit?
I think it was like the 1970s,when it was sports bras kind of
(08:39):
first started.
And so it's like 50 years ofresearch and talking about and
the growth in the marketplace.
It seems weird almost that thathadn't been explored before.
Mari Thomas-Welland (08:49):
Yeah, and to think that, you know, we sent
a man to the moon before thesports bra was invented.
How insane is that?
Sue Anstiss (08:56):
It's mad, isn't it?
We I saw a question documentarythe day from the from the 70s,
actually, and there were peopleout running and jogging.
I thought, well, that's justmad, isn't it?
You could see these womenrunning in regular bras and
thinking that it doesn't reallyfeel that long ago that you know
that it didn't even exist forwomen to be out running and
exercising and aerobics and allthose things of the sort of the
(09:17):
80s and 90s as it took off.
Mari Thomas-Welland (09:19):
Absolutely, and especially for women as
well.
It's there's so much researchand development and funding that
goes into footwear, and we allknow how important it is to look
after your running gear andyour shoe, and but for women,
having a sports bra that's agood sports bra is just as
important, but up till now it'snot really being considered on
the same kind of level.
(09:40):
And so I'm really passionate aswell as getting women to look
at sports bras as an importantpiece of technical gear as your
footwear, and so treating themboth the same, placing them as
often as each other and givingthem the same level of attention
so that you make sure that youare comfortable running.
Because if you don't haveeither of those things, then it
can literally stop unit tracks.
Sue Anstiss (09:59):
And what was the toughest technical design
breakthrough in terms of movingfrom that idea and the charity
shop band to a finished product?
So talk us a little bit throughthat process.
Mari Thomas-Welland (10:11):
Yeah, so I knew that the overband is what
makes the special.
That's what's unique to all ofour bras.
And so the the most challengingpart for me was actually how to
fix it to the bra becausethey're all all of our bras have
that integrated into it.
It's not a separate thing thatyou buy, it's a sports bra that
comes with an integratedoverband in it.
We actually have a couple ofmodels.
So one that has an adjustableoverband, so you can adjust the
(10:33):
tension of that overband overyour chest.
So if you're having a bigger orsmaller time of the month, or
if you wanted a little bit moreextra support for the activity
that you're doing, then you cantighten the overband on the
sides as well.
But on some of our models, it'sfixed in at a predetermined
tension.
And so it was quite tricky tofigure that out and how that was
going to fix into a good placeon the bra so that it would do
(10:54):
the job that it's meant to doand also not irritate anybody.
And I also wanted to make surethat I wasn't releasing like
this Frankenstein-looking brathat people are like, oh my god,
that looks scary.
I'm not going anywhere nearthat.
I still wanted to make surethat it looked like a good bra,
but had this extra bit oftechnology to it that was going
to offer you more support andconfidence.
(11:16):
So I wanted to make sure therewas obvious what he was doing,
but didn't look scary.
But yeah, all the uh it wasfixing into the bra at the right
points.
Sue Anstiss (11:24):
And you've clearly, clearly done that.
I did message you after Ibought my bra to tell you
because how amazed I was.
I loved it, I love the fit, Ilove the feel, the fabric, the
width of the straps, the wide,the secure fasting was so much
about it that was lovely.
So I am intrigued to know howdo you balance that science and
all the engineering with thatneed for style and comfort and
(11:46):
all, you know, and I love thecolour.
I mean, I'm a big fan, as youcan tell.
But but that balance is istricky, isn't it, to get those
things.
Exactly.
Mari Thomas-Welland (11:53):
And I could see that in my trials at the
time.
I honestly I learned so muchfrom my sports bra testing days
that have been carried forwardinto what I do now.
I um I it's an incrediblyvaluable experience.
And so I recognized while I wasdoing those trials and those
testings that you can bring outthe best uh performing bra in
the world.
If it looks ugly, people arenot gonna buy it.
(12:15):
So it's really, reallyimportant to have all those
elements thought about duringthe design process because it
can be, you know, make or break.
It's you know, you do need tomake sure that you do have a
good-looking bra at the end ofthe day, too, as well as it
performing really well.
So I did want Maori to be builton foundations of science and
engineering and that you know wedo put performance first, but
(12:38):
also we haven't forgotten aboutthe design element, and that
does come into it after as well.
So we do want to make sure thatwe we have both so that it's a
good-looking and high-performingsports bra.
Sue Anstiss (12:47):
Yeah, that's so interesting, isn't it?
And that's so true, isn't it?
I think about old sports brasI've had in the past and
whatever that don't look more, Iwas gonna say medicinal.
I don't mean medicinal, butoverly functional and not a
beautiful thing.
And actually, you want to putyour kit on and feel good in it
as well, too.
And especially, I guess, withmany younger women, not me, but
that whole exercising just injust for I mean as Serena showed
(13:08):
in her pictures, womenexercising and showing their
sports bras, and actually youwant that it to look as good as
the rest of your kit.
What's to stop other bigmanufacturers now jumping on
board and going, oh, we like theold band and incorporating that
in their designs?
Is that a concern for you?
Mari Thomas-Welland (13:22):
So it is something that we've always
thought about since thebeginning.
So we've always made sure toget the IP wherever we can and
to make sure that we protectourselves as much as we possibly
can too.
Uh, we have seen a couple ofbrands already trying to, you
know, bring out somethingsimilar.
And you know, thankfully thatwe've, you know, I tried some of
those bras and they are not,you know, to the same standards
(13:43):
as ours.
So they are missing that kindof little bit of magic.
But I think I just think ourbra is is so well thought
through.
And if someone was to kind ofjump on that and trying to copy
someone else, it's it's nevergoing to be as good as the real
thing.
And so, yeah, I always thinkthat you always have to, you
know, stay true to yourself andbuild on the foundations that
you have as a company, and thatshould hopefully carry you
through.
Sue Anstiss (14:04):
I love that.
And launching a brand's nevereasy, is it?
So, what was the scariest leapyou feel you had to make in
those early days of gettingstarted?
Mari Thomas-Welland (14:12):
Oh my gosh, I had so many of them.
It's difficult to pick onebecause I I've never done any
business courses or anythinglike that.
And so I didn't go toLuftborough and do a sports
engineering degree thinking atthe end of this, I want to start
a business.
That was never really my goal.
I was just interested in sportsproducts and helping women.
I just happened to kind ofstumble across this idea, which
(14:35):
I thought was good, and thendevelop myself.
And so suddenly I thought, ohmy God, I've got a business and
I don't have any businessexperience whatsoever.
Nobody in my family has anybusiness experience.
And so a lot of it was justlearning as you go, which uh I
think I quickly realized youjust have to get comfortable
with being uncomfortable andfiguring out how this all is
(14:57):
built from the bottom up, Ithink, is also a really good way
to build a company because thenyou don't you know everything
that you're hiring for butunderneath you because you've
done it already.
Because you've had to figurethat out yourself.
Sue Anstiss (15:07):
Mary was taken off as uh COVID hit.
So how did you manage to keepthe business alive and and even
grow it during that period?
Because it was such when whenwas it?
When when did you have yourfirst bras?
Mari Thomas-Welland (15:18):
Gosh, so yeah, December 2018 was the
first time that we launched.
And so we had a year beforeCOVID hit, which is not very
long, and it was a very toughtime for the business.
So we were due to get a restockin in the February 2020, and
that never happened, uh,unfortunately, because of COVID
hitting.
And so we kind of had to waitout the storm a bit and you
(15:40):
know, try and keep peopleinterested and remind people
that we're here and don't forgetabout us because we had just
gone completely out of stock byMarch.
And so I was suddenly a sportsbra company with no sports bras
to sell, which was an incrediblyscary feeling.
Unfortunately, we had, youknow, very low outgoing.
So um I was I was able to kindof manage the storm a bit.
(16:00):
But then we have to turn thesemistakes into opportunities.
And so that's when the idea foronline fittings came around.
So I knew that I wanted to getpeople in our sports bras when
they arrived back.
So to keep people interestedand so that they knew what size
they needed to get once thestock was back in, then I was
gonna fit them.
But obviously, we couldn't dothat in person anymore.
(16:21):
So I introduced onlinefittings.
I was doing them one day onlyand see how they went on.
But they were so successful, Iwas completely fully booked.
And so I thought, okay, I'll doit again next month.
And then I thought that turnedinto a monthly thing, which then
turned into a weekly thing,which turned into a multi, it's
multiple times a week now.
And they worked so well for usthat we still do them today.
And they are one of the reasonsthat people keep coming back to
(16:43):
us because they just feel liketheir hand is being held
throughout the process, becauseso many women have question
marks around their size and whatstyle they need, that it's
become one of our cornerstonesas a business.
I think it's one of the reasonspeople keep coming back to us.
But we did actually go, I thinksix or seven months without any
stock during COVID.
And so when I finally openedorders again in October,
(17:07):
November time, fortunately, wehave our best sales day ever,
which is still our record day todate.
Like it was such a good day ofsales that we were able to kind
of kickstart the business again.
And we actually made up, wepredicted all the sales we would
have done in that six to sevenmonth period, and we did all of
that in that first day, whichwas incredible.
Sue Anstiss (17:25):
Oh wow, wow.
And did you ever think aboutjacking it all in and going to
try something different duringCOVID where you were so
frustrated with not havingstock?
Or did you see the passion wasthere for the brand?
Mari Thomas-Welland (17:36):
We didn't I didn't think that at all,
actually.
I was very frustrated, and itwas a very tough time.
But I just I loved what I do,and there was such a a calling
from our audience for our brasto come back.
So I could feel there was aneed there, and we can fulfill
that.
We just it was so frustratinggetting our bras back in to
(17:58):
stock.
So I knew that kind of thatflood was coming, but it was
just so frustrating to be ableto kind of keep telling people,
so sorry, not yet, not yet.
Sue Anstiss (18:08):
And it does feel like community is so central to
everything you've done withMary.
How has that kind of sisterhoodof your supporters shaped the
journey?
It's obviously so importantthere during COVID, but but as
the time's gone on, has thatbeen maintained?
Mari Thomas-Welland (18:23):
Yeah, and and that's something we really
want to be concentrating on moregoing forward as well.
We're going to be dedicatingmore time to that because we do
know how important it is and howintegral it's been to our
journey so far.
So it is something wedefinitely want to keep building
on because I feel like we aretapping into a community of
women who really get what we'retrying to do and really believe
(18:43):
in the same things that webelieve in.
And so we want to be putting onmore events, more you know,
more activities that we can allmeet up at and do amazing things
and support one another.
So watch this space.
Sue Anstiss (18:55):
Lovely.
I went back to Love Bratchley acouple of weeks ago.
I was at a women's healthconference and was blown away by
a presentation about sportsbras and breast health from
Professor Deirdre McGee.
And I realized when I waslistening, there's so much that
I don't know that can I feelI've been around this space for
a while, but so much I didn'tknow, especially around the
anatomy of the breast andmovement and impact and the
(19:15):
things that you've alluded tothen.
So, what do you feel are stillsome of the most common myths
and mistakes that women aremaking in the sports bra space?
Mari Thomas-Welland (19:24):
So I feel like a lot of a myth, um, one of
the biggest myths is that uh wehave a lot of women coming up
to us saying, Oh, I'm too smallto need a sports bra.
And I always think, oh, okay.
I mean, you will need probablydifferent levels of support than
someone who is larger chested,but you shouldn't negate that as
thinking, oh, I don't need anysupport whatsoever, because
(19:45):
there's a lot of research outthere that shows that even A
cups will move, you know, yourbreasts will move four
centimeters when you're running.
Sue Anstiss (19:52):
Wow.
Mari Thomas-Welland (19:53):
And so that's still something.
And you want to be making surethat you look after yourself and
protect the ligaments in yourum in your chest to make sure
that you are looking after yourbody.
And then that's compared to, Ithink if if you're an F cup, I
believe, then your boost canmove up to 14 centimeters when
you're running.
And so you can just see thatthere is a difference there, but
even A cups do also move.
(20:15):
So you need to make sure thatyou've got the right support for
you still.
So I say that's the biggestmyth.
With regards to the biggestmistake, that is undoubtedly
that women uh and men, butmostly women, will still be
getting their bra size wrong.
They misunderstand how brasizing actually works.
So, what I mean by this is forexample, let's say someone's a
(20:36):
size 34D, and so they think, oh,I'm a 34 back, I'm a D chest.
And then if they want to godown a back size and then they
go, okay, now I need a 32D,that's actually not correct
because a D cup, it will besmaller on a smaller back sizes
and bigger on bigger back sizes.
So the letter in your bra sizedoes not represent a specific
(20:59):
volume.
Those letters even vary acrossback sizes.
So if you actually to go down aback size to a 32, you actually
need to go up a cup letter justto keep the same volume.
So 32 double D and 34D areactually the same size breast
volume.
And that's what people aregetting wrong most of the time.
So that if they change theirbra size, they're doing it
(21:20):
incorrectly.
And so there's no wonder thatpeople are wearing the wrong
size because they don't know howto how to pick their bra size
out correctly, which iscompletely understandable.
Sue Anstiss (21:28):
It's so interesting, isn't it?
Is that historical, what we'vegrown up with, what we've heard
in the past, all that kind ofmyths and lack of conversations
that that needs to change.
Uh, what difference do youthink it could make generally to
especially talk about teenagegirls dropping out of sport?
But if we could get more girlsin the right supportive sports
bras or just in sports bras,what difference and impact do
(21:49):
you think that could have?
Oh, 100%.
Mari Thomas-Welland (21:51):
It's one of the main reasons that girls
drop out of sport at such ayoung age.
And so if we can get rid ofthat barrier, then and suddenly
get, you know, talking moreopenly about sports bras from
such a young age or providingthem, you know, more regularly
in schools, then you know, thedrop rate will will decrease.
And so we want to make surethat we're keeping more girls in
(22:12):
sport and leading healthy,active lifestyles.
Because for me, uh I'm sureyou'll find this too, Sue, but
sport offers more to me thanjust keeping healthy or keeping
fit.
Like it gets you social skills,skills, it gets you leadership
skills, it gets you a sociallife.
It just gives you so much morethan what you think it does on
the on the face of it.
Sue Anstiss (22:32):
I think, yeah.
And for me, it's always aboutjoy and happiness and
connection.
It's all sometimes we forgetthat those lovely elements of
playing games in sport, don'twe?
To kind of think about theother elements it contributes.
Uh, we talked about Serenabeing seen in your sports bras,
but along with her, you've alsoworked more formally with
Lioness, Millie Bright, andSuperstar, Neville Superstar,
(22:55):
Eleanor Caldwell.
So, why has it been importantto you to partner with athletes,
especially athletes that arevery happy to use their voices
for social purpose?
Mari Thomas-Welland (23:05):
Absolutely.
And these have been reallyorganic relationships as well.
So they've either had problemswith sports bras in the past and
have wanted to try it mine, orum, you know, they've reached
out to us because they've hadproblems and have heard how good
our sports bras are.
So the relationship has alwaysbeen very organic, and we're
always really passionate aboutpartnering with people who are
voices in this community foreither sports bras or uh female
(23:28):
empowerment, which is againeverything that we stand for.
So yeah, we love partneringwith Millie and also with Elna
because they're both strongwomen in the sport who don't
mind, you know, calling thingsout and making sure that they,
you know, that the industry iscatering for them and, you know,
making sure that women's kit isheld to a higher standard and
(23:48):
voicing their concerns when theythink they have one.
So yes, they're fantasticathletes and we love them for
that, but also we love thatthey're strong women as well.
Sue Anstiss (23:57):
Alongside selling in the UK, you also now deliver
across Europe and the USA andAustralia.
Did you imagine the brand wouldgo global so quickly?
Mari Thomas-Welland (24:08):
No, not absolutely, absolutely not.
Because we've never done anymarketing in any of those other
territories, just the UK.
Wow.
And the fact that people arehearing about us in all of these
different territories, and wethink suddenly thinking, oh my
gosh, we need to better caterfor these uh markets and making
sure that they have a good, youknow, customer experience.
So yeah, that the kind of thedemand came, and so we needed to
(24:29):
make sure that we were cateringfor them really well.
And so I can't wait to see whatwe can do in all these
territories too, with the UKbeing our main focus still, but
it's so great to see that we'regetting some kind of organic
reach in these other places aswell.
Sue Anstiss (24:41):
And you've also expanded into leggings and tees
and the brilliantly namedsisterhoodie.
I love that.
I really love that.
Thank you.
So, what are your uhlonger-term plans in terms of
kind of sportswear and expansioninto that bigger space?
Mari Thomas-Welland (24:55):
Yeah, so we do want to become a sportswear
company for women.
And so, like other big brandshave done before now, so like
Nike did with shoes and likeLululemon did with leggings,
they started with a specificproduct and became known for
that.
And so I want to make sure thatwe still focus really heavily
on sports bras.
Yeah, we need to be known forthat, and that's the reason that
(25:18):
people are going to be comingto us.
But we do want to make surethen we are then expanding our
range beyond the sports bra sothat we can become that kind of
all-rounder sportswear brand.
Sue Anstiss (25:28):
And how is it going now without giving away any
business secrets or anythingthat you're working on?
But what's the proportion ofyour either your time or your
investment in terms of productsbeyond the sports bra?
Mari Thomas-Welland (25:38):
So, yeah, we are like I said, we're still
concentrating on sports brasmainly for the foreseeable
future, but we are alreadyadding pieces to our collection
so that people can wear fulloutfits together, you know, have
matching pieces and evenproviding other pieces that are
supportive in one way oranother.
Because, like I said, we areall about supporting women.
So, for example, leggings thatare really sculpting are going
(26:01):
to hold you kind of in as well.
And so, yeah, I feel like aslong as they are all about
supporting women, then we arefor it too.
Sue Anstiss (26:08):
And what are the pinch points that you're facing?
Did you look to scale furtherand grow?
And I it's lovely because I'vekind of watched your journey and
and seen both the profile andthe popularity, but obviously
the availability and you know,people commenting on how amazing
the products are.
But where do you see thosepinch points right now as you
scale further?
Mari Thomas-Welland (26:28):
So I know that we do we do so many sizes.
We have in our at our peak,we've done 52 sizes across our
bras, which is a lot ofinfantry, especially if we want
to do it in lots of colours.
So, as you can imagine, that isquite tricky to you manage,
especially across differentterritories.
And so that's something that weare keeping an eye on going
(26:48):
forward.
We know there's one of thereasons, again, that people keep
coming to us.
They love the amount of sizethat we have.
So we don't want to be gettingrid of that, but we just need to
figure out a better way tomanage it and making sure that
we can kind of cater to as manypeople as we can, but still
managing that inventory levelgoing forward.
So that's always something thatwe're evaluating going forward.
Sue Anstiss (27:07):
That's really interesting, isn't it?
Because almost like that easeis having less, less of a range
to have that diversity of sizes.
But I can imagine that is toughto stop.
Mari Thomas-Welland (27:17):
We picked a tricky product to start with.
Sue Anstiss (27:19):
It's so true, isn't it?
When you think about, I haven'tthought about that before.
But you think about shoes, likeit is quite simply how many
sizes of shoes you need.
It is so different in a sportsbar, isn't it?
Yeah.
Many people kind of come intothe space, do you think, and
then fall over around that, notalmost not thinking about that
vast range that's needed.
Mari Thomas-Welland (27:36):
Absolutely.
And especially if you don'tknow what size you are, or you
think you know your size, butyou have you know different
issues like oh, chafing or notgetting enough support, those
issues are probably related toyour size.
But because they're coming intothis process thinking they
already know their size, thenthey might not change their
size.
And so it's just basicallyreaching out to those women and
making them question whetherthey're in the right size to
begin with.
(27:56):
And if they're not sure, thenwe can help them along with the
way too.
Sue Anstiss (27:59):
And how important is external investment for your
growth?
Where are you in in thatjourney?
Mari Thomas-Welland (28:04):
So we have taken on our first round of
investment last year.
So that was our first everround.
And so, yeah, we are on thatjourney and it's helped us
immensely.
So we have now gone intoretail, which is fantastic.
So um up till now, we've onlydone D2C, um, so just direct to
consumer.
And so we've done all of oursales through our website only
and fitted everyone online oryou know, at little pop-up
(28:27):
events that we go to every nowand then, like the running show,
for example.
And so now that we've gone intoretail, people can actually
physically try us on in personagain in different locations,
which is fantastic.
We have a list of those on ourwebsite if anybody wants to
check them out.
Sue Anstiss (28:41):
Where are you without without specifically
wanting you to list them all?
But where might people findyou?
Mari Thomas-Welland (28:47):
So there's lots of different places.
We've just signed um with BoobyDoo, for example.
So they're up in Derby.
Oh, good.
And then there's also Run andBecome in London and Victoria,
and then there's lots ofindependent shops in between as
well.
So you can look at them all onour website.
Sue Anstiss (29:01):
And is that your ambition to be in a bigger
chain?
Is that is that the bit thatwill make a massive difference
for the brand?
Or actually, is it theindependent running outlets and
sports outlets where you youfeel the home is?
Mari Thomas-Welland (29:13):
So not to have too much of a pun, but
we'll let's we're gonna try andwalk before we can run.
Yeah.
So we want to make sure thatwe, you know, we're gonna cater
for those smaller independentones to begin with, making sure
that our stock levels aremanaged correctly over the next
little while, making sure thatwe can, you know, add one or two
more.
And then who knows?
We can then build up to see whowho else we can go with and
(29:34):
maybe go on a larger scale.
But we're gonna make sure thatwe can do things properly before
we get even that level first.
Sue Anstiss (29:40):
And I imagine have knowing you and knowing I've
been for a fitting in in uh inso London, actually.
That's right.
But just the the quality ofthose people fitting.
I guess that's a real key piecefor you as well.
It isn't just about having theproduct in stock, it's about
making sure the people that areuh fitting meet your quality of
standards too.
Mari Thomas-Welland (29:59):
Absolutely.
And that's something we want tomake sure of when we do go
around and build theserelationships with these
retailers, is making sure thatwe have a training day with them
and that we make sure that youknow they are fitting in the
same way that we do.
But not just that, butidentifying the issues that
women currently have, you know,the reason they're coming into
the store that day and saying, Ieven do sports bra because of
XYZ.
And so identifying through thatconversation what needs
(30:22):
improving as well and what stylewould be best for them.
So yeah, all very importantstuff and one that we want to
continue with all our retailersas well.
Sue Anstiss (30:30):
I feel like Mary stands for support in many
different ways.
And we've talked about thesupport of people and obviously
the whole process of support.
But what does that mean to you?
I guess personally, what doessupport mean to you?
What do you where do you feelyou've got that from the
community personally andprofessionally?
Mari Thomas-Welland (30:46):
So I think it's just all about supporting
one another.
And so again, like I said, it'sin every sense of that word.
So support could be providing abetter sports bra so that I can
now go and run confidently andwithout any pain.
But then in other words, itcould be, you know, through an
event that we do and we supportyou with the education that we
have so that you know, so youfeel empowered about going out
(31:08):
bra shopping on your own goingforward and through motherhood
as well.
So basically, if someone hasjust given birth and they need a
different sports bra becausethey now need to breastfeed.
So making sure that they haveall the tools for all the stages
of their lives and with itobviously not just being
constrained to sports bras aswell, but to the education and
other tools that we can providewomen to make sure that they are
(31:28):
empowered to lead the livesthat they want to.
Sue Anstiss (31:30):
It sounds like, as I talked to you, like you're
thoroughly enjoying it, andobviously it's been challenging.
D do you love what you do?
Is it again?
It must be frustrating and sortof sleepless nights in terms of
logistics and funding and soon, but but are you enjoying the
process?
Mari Thomas-Welland (31:45):
I really, really am.
And like you said, there therewill be days where you feel like
you want to pull your hair outand things are not going your
way.
But if you're still gettingthrough those days and still
thinking, I really like what Ido, then I think you're probably
on the right path.
And yeah, I thoroughly,thoroughly like love what I do,
and especially speaking topeople at live events and in
(32:06):
person, and then relaying backto us say things like, Oh, I saw
you last year, I've got yourbra, it's made such a big deal
for us.
I've come back from another,and it's like, oh, that stuff is
what what gets me going, whatkeeps me going.
Sue Anstiss (32:17):
I love it.
I was just joining a long lineof women sending you an email
going, Oh my god, it's it's soamazing.
I love it so much.
And looking ahead, what impactdo you want Mary to have on
women's sport in the next five,ten years?
Where do you see things going?
Mari Thomas-Welland (32:32):
I would love to support more and more
women around the country.
So, you know, that's why wehave such a vast array of sizes.
You know, there isn't that onesports bra out there that's
gonna suit everybody.
Like we know that.
So it's making sure that wehave a good collection to suit
most women as best as we canwith you know the different
stages of their day, even letalone their life.
(32:53):
And so I want to make sure thatwe're becoming the the hub that
women go to so that they getthe education around bras,
around sports bras, and thenalso hopefully buy from us as
well.
Sue Anstiss (33:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
It does feel, again, from theoutside, but it feels very
authentic.
You've got a lovelyrelationship, I think, with
Copper Feel in my bra.
I've got a little logo about soyou've and I guess the
affiliation with athletes, itdoes feel like you've gone out
very intelligently to kind ofform some of those partnerships
and work with differentpartners.
Is that obviously important toyou to make sure you're
authentically partnering withthe right organizations?
Mari Thomas-Welland (33:24):
Absolutely, because your audience will be
able to see straight throughthat if it's inauthentic.
And so we've never ever triedto be someone that we're not.
And I think I especially am thevery target audience for this
brand, uh, which is helpfulbecause then I know I know the
kind of things I want to see andthe kind of relationships that
(33:45):
I would like to form.
And so, yeah, the the instantthat you start viewing off of
that track of authenticity, thenpeople will start to see
straight through you.
Sue Anstiss (33:54):
And are there specific sports?
I mean, you're working, I feellike you're a bit sport
agnostic.
You're working across lots ofsports, but are there any
specific sports that have reallyadopted the kind of Marie bra
and done a lot with you?
Mari Thomas-Welland (34:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Like I said, we we've startedout in running um because we
just felt like that appealed tothe mass market and people
understand then what the bra istrying to achieve.
But like you said, we've delvedinto lots more specific sports
after that.
And funny enough, probably theone of our first ones after
running was during COVID,skipping really took off.
(34:28):
And so we became really knownin the skipping community for
being the bra that you go for tostop that bounce because you're
bouncing up and down a lot, butyou know, you don't want your
booze to go go away from you,and so yeah, skipping was one of
the first ones, and now as youcan see, we've gone into
netball, football, rugby aswell.
(34:48):
So we are starting to kind ofdip our toes into those other
sports in in quite an excitingand interesting way, I think.
So yeah, we'll see what comesnext.
Sue Anstiss (34:58):
It's very exciting.
And and just finally, whatwould you say to any other women
that might be listening to thiswith a perhaps a product idea
who's wondering is it reallyworth pursuing?
You know, what what would youradvice be to them?
Mari Thomas-Welland (35:11):
I would say really, you know, really test
it thoroughly.
And like I did, you need tosleep on it a little bit and
make sure that there is really agap in this market.
It does definitely help whenyou are your own target customer
because I was looking out for agood sports bra for most of my
life and was failing at it, so Icould just see that there was a
good gap in the market tofulfill and get some good
(35:34):
mentors on board too, because Ithink that's a really good way
to bounce some ideas off ofsomeone because it can be quite
lonely being your own CEO in acompany of one.
Sue Anstiss (35:44):
Have you found that support?
So the mentors have beenimportant to you in terms of the
business, are the women or menand women that have been in this
space?
Mari Thomas-Welland (35:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
And groups like the Women'sSport Collective are really
helpful for that.
You know, at the end of yourfan in a WhatsApp group, there
is lots of women to talk to andwho would have gone through this
experience before you.
And so it's a really good wayto, yeah, communicate with lots
of other people who are goingthrough the same thing as you
and not feeling alone.
Sue Anstiss (36:12):
Lovely.
I often think that that fandersgroup is so nice, is even if
women aren't sharing or justwatching the conversations that
are going on, you get a lot fromthat if you were at the early
stages.
Exactly.
Mari Thomas-Welland (36:23):
I don't I don't necessarily participate in
every single conversation, butI do see all of it.
And so you can like jump inwhenever you feel like you can
either contribute or get somehelp.
Sue Anstiss (36:32):
And I wonder what would you have done if it hadn't
been sports bras?
And I look thinking back to thedegree that you did at
Loughborough, going full circle.
Was there anything else, anyother area that you might have
taken if it hadn't been thesports bras space?
Mari Thomas-Welland (36:44):
To be honest, I was the the the only
thing I was thinking of beforebefore sports bras, and it's
simply because that's what themajority of everyone else was
thinking on the course, is thatyou end up going into footwear
because that was, you know, thethe sexy topic at the time, and
everyone wears footwear, and soit just felt like everyone on
the course wanted to go intofootwear at some point.
So I just kind of was followingthe crowd because that sounded
(37:07):
great.
But yeah, once realizing sportsbras were just as important, I
thought, eh, wait a minute, thisis this is more interesting.
Sue Anstiss (37:19):
What a joy to hear more from Mary about her
sportswear journey.
We look forward to followingand seeing where that all goes
in the future.
If you'd like to hear fromother Trailblazers, there are
over 200 episodes of the GameChangers podcast that are all
free to listen to on mostplatforms or from our website at
fearlesswomen.co.uk.
Along with entrepreneurs, youcan hear from elite athletes,
(37:43):
coaches, broadcasters,scientists, journalists, and
CEOs, all women who are changingthe game in sport.
As well as listening to all thepodcasts on the website, you
can also find out more about theWomen's Sport Collective, a
free, inclusive community forall women working at all levels
of sport.
We now have over 14,000 membersacross the world, so please do
(38:07):
come and join us.
The whole of my book, Game Onthe Unstoppable Rise of Women's
Sport, is also free to listen toon the podcast.
Every episode of series 13 isme reading a chapter of the
book.
Thank you to Sport England forbacking the Game Changers and
the Women's Sport Collectivewith a National Lottery Award,
and to Sam Walker at What GoesOn Media, who does such an
(38:29):
excellent job as our executiveproducer.
Thank you, as always, to mybrilliant colleague at Fearless
Women, Kate Hannon.
The Game Changers is availableon all podcast platforms, so
please follow us now to ensureyou don't miss out on future
episodes.
Do come and say hello on socialmedia where you'll find me on
(38:50):
LinkedIn and Instagram at SueAnstus.
The Game Changers.
Fearless women in sport.
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