August 28, 2024 • 49 mins
As we look forward to the Paralympics at Paris 2024, we're sharing this previous episode with Director of Sport, British Paralympic Association Penny Briscoe,
which was first released on June 27, 2023.
Our guest in this episode has been instrumental in the success of the British Paralympic team, helping them to achieve record-breaking medal hauls at 10 Paralympic Summer and Winter Games.
Penny Briscoe competed for Great Britain in Canoe Slalom before becoming Senior National Coach for the GBR team at the Atlanta 1996 and Sydney 2000 Olympic Games. She has worked in para sport as coach, team manager, performance director and is now Director of Sport at the British Paralympic Association and is also the Chef De Mission for Paralympics GB. In 2017, Penny was awarded an OBE for her services to disability sport.
In this fascinating conversation we explore Penny’s path into para sport and how the role and profile of the British Paralympic Association has changed over 20 years.
Penny shares the enormous impact of London 2012, the challenges that followed in Rio 2016 and Tokyo 2021, and her ambitions for Paris 2024.
If you’d like to hear from other senior women leading British sport, previous episodes of The Game Changers include interviews with Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson, Sally Munday OBE, Dame Liz Nichol, Dame Katherine Grainger, Sue Day MBE, Baroness Sue Campbell and Clare Connor CBE.
Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.
Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media
A Fearless Women production
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sue Anstiss (00:05):
Hello and welcome to the Game Changers.
I'm Sue Anstiss, and this isthe podcast where you'll hear
from trailblazing women in sport.
What can we learn from theirjourneys as we explore some of
the key issues around equalityin sport and beyond.
I'd like to start with a bigthank you to our partners, sport
England, who support the gamechangers through a national
(00:28):
lottery award.
My guest today has beeninstrumental in the success of
the British Paralympic team,helping them to achieve a
record-breaking medal haul at 10Paralympic summer and winter
Games.
Penny Briscoe competed for GreatBritain in Canoe Slalom before
(00:49):
becoming Senior National Coachfor the British team at the
Atlanta 1996 and Sydney 2000Olympic Games.
She's worked in Parasport as acoach, team manager and
performance director and is nowDirector of Sport at the British
Paralympic Association.
She's also the chef de missionfor Paralympics GB.
(01:10):
In 2017, enny was awarded anOBE for her services to
disability sport.
Penny, I'd like to start atLoughborough, if I can, as I
hadn't realised until I wasdoing my research that we were
both there at the same time fora year in 1988.
And I think you were theredoing a PGCE, so was the plan
(01:31):
always to become a teacher?
It?
Penny Briscoe (01:33):
It was half a plan.
I think I grew up being a sportmad kid.
Anything to do with sport wasmy bag and as I got to do my O
levels at the time it's that faroff fact it was like decision
time.
What was I going to do?
What was I going to do for my Alevels and then what was I
going to do beyond my A levelsand in sport at that time, as a
(01:55):
female, there were probably onlytwo options.
One was being a PE teacher, theother was probably being a
physio, and I didn't really seetoo much else and I didn't
really see myself in the sciencespace.
So I kind of went down the PGCEroute.
So I did my undergrad atBirmingham.
I did history and PE, which wasbrilliant, and then I went to
(02:16):
Loughborough to do my PGCE,which again was a fabulous year
and I think in many waysprovided huge inspiration for me
as a teacher, then as a coach.
Sue Anstiss (02:28):
And so why not PE or teaching?
Because actually that was myroute when I first went there.
I, like you, similar time, butwanted to be a PE teacher.
So what was the point to whichyou changed, you think?
Penny Briscoe (02:39):
Well, I taught for six years in secondary ed
here in Nottingham and then Idid a year in, or just under a
year actually, at StaffordCollege.
So I did enjoy teaching but itwas too much of an opportunity.
There was a sort of ashort-term role came up for for
a full-time coach to work withwithin British Canoeing.
(03:00):
There was a nationalperformance coach but they were
recruiting an additional coachfor the Atlanta Games and I
hadn't taken that leap of faithas an athlete to sort of train
full time and see how good Icould be, and I always regretted
that, that I didn't reallyachieve my dreams as an athlete,
always working full time andnever really having the optimal
(03:24):
training environment, and thiswas my chance at redemption to
do something that I was reallyproud of.
So I took that leap of faith,took a nine-month contract with
the British Canoe Union andbecame that assistant Olympic
coach as it was in that firstyear and then lottery funding
came towards the back end of 97or 96 into 97 and then I got a
(03:50):
full-time contract.
So I took a leap of faith andthen was in the right place at
the right time to be able tosort of maximise that
opportunity.
Sue Anstiss (03:58):
That's fantastic to hear, isn't it?
And obviously you were almostpre that lottery funding
yourself as an athlete.
Do you think, had there beenthat funding, you would have
continued a longer careercompeting yourself?
Penny Briscoe (04:09):
That's an interesting question.
And I think there was fundingcoming into British canoeing
because we were one of the bestnations in the world, but it
tended to be the old Foundationof Sport and Arts or the SAF, so
there were just not too manyawards.
There were some good awards, butthey were, you know, we had
(04:30):
world champions and olympicmedalists and and I was kind of
just below that tier of athlete.
I think the biggest issue forme is I picked up a lot of
injuries and I think that thatwas probably working full-time,
always seeming to be on the go,training at the wrong times of
the day, not really recovering,not focusing on prehab, let
alone rehab.
My shoulders were, were justabsolutely shot to pieces.
So I think I sort of retiredgracefully, without ever saying
(04:52):
I'd retired, but knowing that Iwasn't going to go to Atlanta as
an athlete and just wanting totake that opportunity to be at a
games I just really dreamt of,of taking that opportunity and
and I did.
And you know I'm really proudof what I achieved as a coach
for British Canoe and as theonly female full-time coach in
the program at that time and hadan incredible experience as
(05:16):
being part of those two Olympicsummer game cycles.
Sue Anstiss (05:20):
And what was it like being a coach at those
games?
And I think, such a fantasticopportunity for you as a young
coach or a newer coach reallytoo.
Penny Briscoe (05:28):
Yeah, I'd always coach not always coach, but I'd,
you know, teach, and I guess mything is helping others,
whether it be teaching, whetherit be coaching.
So even when I was doing myundergrad I supported the GB
juniors and then I worked withthe Welsh squad, I did some
private coaching.
(05:48):
So from you know my sort oflate teens, early twenties, I
sort of got into coachingbecause it was the sort of a
natural synergy with thedirection I was going in as a
teacher, always enjoyed it, youknow, I probably enjoyed it
because it was my sport and Iwas so passionate about my sport
and and wanting to be part ofit and I guess, knowing I wasn't
(06:11):
going to succeed as an athlete,well, you know, could I, could
I achieve something as a coach?
So to be part of the, of thesetup going into Sydney was
hugely exciting and we didn'thave our best games.
It was I don't know if youremember, sue, but 1996 the
british media dubbed team gb asthe team of shane.
I think it was the worst set ofresults in something like 36
(06:34):
years or something.
And um, as a gb canoeing squadwe went in with high hopes.
We'd had a great worldchampionship, the home world
championships.
In 1995 we went in with medalpotential pretty well in every
class and um the you know thatit's fine margins in in white
walking her in and um, a coupleof couple of things went against
(06:55):
us.
Lynn ray should have, couldhave medaled, paul ratcliffe
could have.
He was sort of theup-and-coming gareth marriott.
We had great athletes and wejust didn't have the best games.
And you know I felt I felt sadwith the sort of the up and
coming Gareth Marriott.
We had great athletes and wejust didn't have the best games.
And you know I felt sad with thesort of some of the press that
we had, because nobody goes intoa major championship trying to
fail.
(07:15):
You know there was so much hardwork that had gone in, there
was so much potential withinthat team and you know we
bounced back at the World Cupfinal just a few weeks later and
thankfully, you know we wentforward as a team and and I
think, keeping tennessee lyleand his medals, multiple medals
at every game since then.
Sydney was a differentexperience.
Paul ratcliffe got silver andyou know we had some great
(07:38):
supporting results as well andum, you know I guess that first
game um was of mixed experiencesbut it kind of got me hooked
and I just love that multi-sport, the pressure of that once
every four-year environment, andI just wanted more.
So that was me started really.
Sue Anstiss (07:58):
And we don't see, do we many elite female coaches
at that top end Olympics andParalympics.
So what was it like at the time, you know, in 96, 2000?
Was it any different then?
Penny Briscoe (08:09):
no, I mean I think I was probably the only
female on the circuit at thattime and and where you found
your company was that a lot ofphysios tended to be female.
So, going back to my originalanalogy of what do you do if
you're a female and you want toexcel in sport and um, a big,
big ally of mine was Julie Stark, who was a still part of the
EIS system, and we were kind ofthe two females in a very male
(08:32):
dominated coaching team.
But you know, it's thatdiversity, isn't it, which helps
create environments where bothathletes and staff can thrive.
So I think it was a great stepforward for British Canoeing and
I was probably one of the fewin the UK system at that time
that was full-time, professional, and so you know, I kind of
(08:52):
hope that it did pave the wayfor others and it's certainly
now a more diverse workforce,which it quite likely should be.
But there's still work to do,isn't there?
Sue Anstiss (09:02):
absolutely, and what do you think makes it a
great coach?
Penny Briscoe (09:06):
I think from my personal experiences, it's kind
of just being yourself, I thinkyou've got to be.
You've got to be passionateabout what you do in.
In my belief, I think at timesI was probably a bit too
passionate and that wascertainly one of the things that
through my career I've had tosort of curb a little bit and
and learn to sort of flex mystyle rather than full out
(09:26):
passion all of the time, which Ithink is quite wearing for
others.
But I think from my perspectivethat I would say the synergy
between teaching and coaching,so being well prepared for your
sessions, making sure that youcommunicate early, you
communicate appropriately, Ithink, just being ambitious in
terms of, I guess, working withlike-minded people, setting the
(09:49):
ground rules.
So I coached a few youngathletes early on, very talented
GB young athletes, but workingwith them to sort of balance
studies with training, withhaving some sort of social life
and and how that sort of ebbsand flows through the year and I
guess, getting to know theindividual, getting to know
their family, their personalcircumstances and to sort of
(10:12):
create the right environment,because every athlete is
different, every athleteresponds differently to coaching
style and I think it's marryingup the individual athlete or
that group of athletes, thinkit's marrying up the individual
athlete or that group ofathletes with you as a as a
coach, and your preferences andand trying to get the best out
of each other.
So you know, it's definitely acheck and challenge environment.
(10:33):
I think it has to be open andhonest.
But I think you know thecritical thing is creating safe
and secure environments whereyou can be yourself and you can
say how you feel and that's onboth sides and have you seen a
change in the culture aroundcoaching elite athletes from, I
mean 30 years ago, as youstarted out at Atlanta and so on
(10:54):
.
Sue Anstiss (10:54):
Does it feel like it's a different place?
That's?
Penny Briscoe (10:57):
a really interesting question and I think
that you know the world hasmoved on, hasn't it?
In the last 30 years, and Ithink we're different
generations.
I was a different generation asan athlete, as I was as a coach
, as I now am as a director andleader, and I think we have to
respond to how generationalchanges have impacted in what
(11:23):
athletes want from their sport,what they want from, you know,
their careers.
I think there has been a change.
I think, really, we have tolisten, we have to understand
and not just make assumptions,you know, as to what.
What athletes want now is quitedifferent and how they want to
be coached, how they want to becommunicated with.
(11:45):
Yeah, I mean, I I think it hasshifted and but I think we had
great coaches pre-lottery and Ithink we've still got great
coaches.
Yes, we've had challenges inthe system, um, but I think we,
when you know we're addressingthose challenges and again,
quite likely, you know, health,well-being of athletes, health
and well-being of staff shouldbe paramount to the system If
(12:07):
it's going to be sustainable, ifit's going to be healthy, if
it's going to be positive, youknow, from a cultural
perspective.
Sue Anstiss (12:15):
Absolutely, absolutely.
You joined the BritishParalympic Association in 2001.
So what first attracted you tothe BPA and working in para
sport?
Penny Briscoe (12:24):
It wasn't directly the BPA that I was
looking to.
So again, this is kind of oneof those unintended consequences
of a coach excel.
I think it was back in the daycatch-up session with Rosie Mays
.
I'd said to her you know, maybelooking for change I've been in
this sport for over 30 yearsnow as an athlete and coach and
maybe have something differentto look forward to post-Sydney,
maybe looking for change.
I've been in this sport forover 30 years now as an athlete
(12:45):
and coach and maybe maybe havesomething different to look
forward to post Sydney, maybe doa bit less traveling.
I remember saying to her shesaid oh, there's a couple of
great jobs with David Tillotsonat the British Paralympic
Association coming up and maybeyou should apply.
And I thought, okay, I'll havea look at that.
And they were.
I think they were calledprogram managers at that time.
So I went for an interview, gotone of the roles.
(13:07):
Joss Hoyt-Smith later joinedthe VPA for a short while in a
similar role and then I probablyspent the first six months
thinking I'm not sure this iswhat I expected.
I think I applied, thinking thatOlympic sportic sport,
paralympic sport were in, wereparallel at that time.
You know they were.
(13:28):
They were just slightlydifferent environments, but the
reality was para sport was wasquite developmental.
You know, the reality is wewere only formed as a bpa in
1989, so the first games as aparalympmpic GB was 1992.
So whilst our movement wasformed out of the atrocities of
(13:48):
World War II, our movement isstill relatively young compared
to it, to our Olympiccounterparts.
So there hadn't been a lot ofinvestment that you know.
The team had had success, butit was quite developmental.
There were pockets of goodpractice, but I think in 2001 we
had two full-time coaches ordirectors, one was in athletics
(14:09):
and one was in swimming, and sothe the environment that I came
into was quite different and andI didn't necessarily feel that
the sort of that developmentside was my, was my skill set.
You know, I was used to workingwith elite athletes, a
successful Olympic program, andit was one of those, I guess,
moments where I just needed tosort of sit and just reflect and
(14:30):
and where I got to was I canthrow stones from the outside,
you know, saying well, thisisn't what I was expecting, or I
can kind of roll my sleeves upand really step inside and try
and make a difference, and andthat was what I decided to do,
that I would try and learn andunderstand this new environment
because that effectively waswhat it was and try and use my
(14:51):
skills and experiences fromOlympic sport and and that was
everything from world-classstart to potential through to
the elite level and and try andtake those learnings as an
athlete, as a coach, as a youknow, we we co-wrote the the
first world class plan in thatpost Atlanta period try and take
all of those, I guess, skillsand experiences and bring them
(15:12):
to bear in this new environment.
And you know it was.
It was quite humbling.
I learned an awful lot from,from one of my colleagues, kaz
Walton, who was a, I guess,pioneers of para sport, multiple
gold medalist.
As an athlete, still works forthe British Paralympic
Association now and learned somuch from her about para sport,
(15:32):
worked with great people in theBPA and the system from sort of
2001 onwards just kind ofstarted to evolve.
There wasn't the same level ofinvestment into Olympic sport
but that really did take amassive step forward when the
home games were announced in2005.
But I remember quite visiblysort of just taking things back
(15:52):
to basics and talking about, youknow, working with British
athletics and how do we manageexpectations of the athletes?
How do we move not only Britishathletics para program but the
global, I guess, guess parasport program forward in terms
of taking these pockets of bestpractice and actually using
those role models that?
(16:13):
You know, tanny Gray Thompson,you know we had some brilliant,
brilliant athletes.
How do we take how they workand make that the norm?
So, you know, almost raisingthe bar for every single athlete
that comes on to a program.
So we did a program calledbeyond goals.
Yes, we could win goals, but wewanted more than that.
We wanted to, you know,professionalize the system, how
(16:34):
we train, how we prepare, how wecoach, how we manage.
And so it was kind of that'swhere it started and um, and
then it, you know, the movementhas just grown massively, hasn't
it?
Sue Anstiss (16:45):
And you mentioned that obviously Paralympics was
born in the UK and we've gotthis long and proud history.
But how is the BPA viewedglobally?
Penny Briscoe (16:54):
I think the British Paralympic Association
is really well respected.
Clearly we're hugely successfuldown to the talented athletes
and their really dedicatedsupport staff.
Down to the talented athletesand their really dedicated
support staff.
We feature highly on the medaltable, but we also, I think, do
really well off the field ofplay.
So, whether that be ineducation, classification,
(17:16):
there's an awful lot we do.
That, I think, has benefitednot only Parasport in GB but
also on a global basis.
We work collaboratively withcolleagues.
I've mentored colleagues fromaround the globe and new chef
submissions.
So I think you know we take ourposition really seriously in
terms of yes, of course we wantto be successful, that's what
it's all about.
But actually we also want tosupport the growth of the
(17:38):
movement and I think londoncertainly helped kick the
movement forward with a massivekickstart.
But you know we've still got away to go.
It's a new movement.
Yes, we've made massive,massive strides in the 20 years
plus that I've been part of theBPA and part of the movement,
but there's more to come.
You know we haven't reached theceiling by any means.
Sue Anstiss (17:59):
And what's your day-to-day role now as Director
of Sport at the BritishParalympic Association?
Penny Briscoe (18:05):
Yeah, I'm part of our exec team, so obviously
responsible for the overallstrategy delivery.
So we launched a new strategy,a 10-year strategy, last year
called Championing Change, andthat strategy is very much
two-pronged.
Part of the strategy is beingthat world-leading team on the
field of play, being thatworld-leading team on the field
(18:25):
of play and part of the strategyis actually how we use success
on the field of play to championchange off the field of play.
So how do we change perceptions, how do we create a better
lived experience for disabledpeople?
How do we use our position toinfluence, to advocate?
And you know it's a hugelyexciting strategy and one that
the whole organization hasembraced, which is is fantastic
(18:48):
to see.
So there's that kind of levelof leadership and direct
responsibility.
And then, obviously, I lead asmall but perfectly formed sport
team who are absolutely amazing, work very closely with the
director of operations in andaround everything to do with
best prepared teams and you knowI've been responsible for
leading the development of ourbest prepared team strategy over
(19:11):
multiple game cycles, includingour funding submissions to uk
sport, and you know we're hugelygrateful as a bpa for the
lottery support that we've hadvia UK Sport as far back, I
think, as sort of Sydney 2000.
So it's a massive part ofenabling us to be that world
leading national Paralympiccommittee and you know long may
(19:34):
it continue.
Sue Anstiss (19:35):
And what is it for you personally that makes
Parasport so special, thatyou've remained in that space
for so long?
Yeah, so so.
Penny Briscoe (19:42):
I guess, from sort of fairly shaky beginnings
it didn't take long actuallyhaving made that decision.
Come on, I can make adifference here as soon as I met
the athletes and a couple ofthe first camps I went on.
One was with Bochia and it wasjust eye-opening just to see
their talent and the skill thatthey have.
(20:04):
And that was like crikey.
I had no idea but just fell inlove with it.
You know, fell in love with thesport by the thing.
You know multi-sport from.
You know box here to you knownewer sports such as para
badminton, para canoe, triathlon.
You know the athletic swimming.
You know it's an amazingenvironment to be working with
(20:25):
so many different sports summerand winter.
So that in itself is hugelyexciting as a sport fan.
But also just the athletes therewere just so many nice in a
very strange word but lovelypeople.
They're absolutely ferocious intheir competitive nature and
determined to do well.
(20:46):
But there was just so manygreat people the coaches, the
PDs, the team leaders.
It kind of feels like you knowI love a hashtag that you know
and I use in it together.
It kind of feels like we're init together and we're there
working to support the ambitionsof the athlete to support the
success of the team but also, Ithink, the broader success of
(21:07):
the UK high performance system.
It really has felt like ajourney of belonging, and
belonging to something that ishugely exciting, that has
evolved over successive gamecycles and, as I've already said
, I think the best is still tocome, or more is still to come.
So it's fresh.
(21:28):
Every game is different, everyteam is different, and that's
what makes it for me just soexciting.
Can we create those environmentswhere every athlete and staff
member can deliver thosepersonal best and, you know,
medal winning performances?
Can we create thoseenvironments you know we get one
chance every four years, summerand winter to create
(21:49):
environments where team membershave a fantastic time and
clearly we're there to deliverperformance.
But we're also very, veryconscious about team experience
and that for me, is thechallenge to get the balance but
also to create theopportunities to absolutely
smash it on the performancefront and to see smiles and just
to hear that.
(22:10):
You know the laughter and thecamaraderie and and, despite the
challenges and and, whether itbe Rio, whether it be Tokyo,
pyeongchang, beijing, there wereso many smiles, there was fun,
there was laughter and you know,yes, there was so much talent,
but I think, being part of teamsthat have come together in
support of the athlete ambitionsand had, you know, an amazing
(22:33):
time in doing so, you paint suchan exciting picture, making me
goosebumps just thinking aboutit and, I guess, that feeling of
the Paralympic sport too.
Sue Anstiss (22:43):
We obviously saw such a huge transformation for
Paralympic sport around London2012, which you've alluded to.
So how did that feel being onthe other side, almost being
inside the sport?
Penny Briscoe (22:55):
Oh, I mean 2012 was was incredible, and we got a
new CEO in in in 2011, timHollingsworth, who's now
obviously CEO at Sport Englandand working with our director of
Marcon's at the time, janeJones, and they were just a
formidable force to be reckonedwith in terms of the ambition
(23:15):
that they could see in terms of.
We wanted to be successful onthe field of play, but we had
this twin track ambition, whichwas to change perceptions and
create change off the field ofplay, and the reality was that
the media hadn't really everreally grasped the potential of
para-sport.
So my first games in 2004, onthe Parmpic side, tanny gray
(23:40):
thompson probably winning herninth and tenth gold medals in
in athens, probably in front ofabout 200 people and a similar
number of adults in the nationalstadium, and I was just so sad.
I didn't understand why therewas this great sport but nobody
seemed to care and the Britishmedia at that time hadn't
embraced para sport.
And it took awarding of thehome games in 2005 and channel 4
(24:05):
stepping up into that space toreally do justice and to shine
the spotlight on para athletesfor the first time.
And you know, I talk about theathletes stepping out of the
shadows of their Olympiccounterparts and that media
spotlight as well as filledstadia, which was obviously a
another part of the shadows oftheir Olympic counterparts, and
that media spotlight, as well asfilled stadia, which was
obviously a another part of thesuccess of London, just meant
(24:25):
that so many people realizedjust how brilliant power sport
is, how incredible the athletesare, and embraced it, and it was
such a step forward, and Ithink that we did.
You know, we were successful onthe field of play and we started
to make some inroads and,whilst that hasn't necessarily
been a linear progression, Ithink that the ambition that the
(24:45):
organisation clearly stated wasone that I think has stood us
in good stead as a movement, asan organisation, and one that
just still needs to continue tobe worked on.
You know, we can't becomplacent in this space and I
think Hannah Cockcroft, just inthe last few weeks, has talked
(25:06):
about reigniting the passion forpara-sport and, with a European
game so very close over inParis, we're hoping that,
without crowds in Tokyo, therewasn't necessarily the same
passion, the same fervour, but Ithink that the Parisians are
going to host an incredibleGames and I think there'll be
(25:27):
thousands and thousands oftravelling fans who, again, I
think it will reignite thepassion for Palace Sport and
then just, I guess, reinforcethat platform that allows the
athletes to use their voice forchange, and positive change for
disabled people.
Sue Anstiss (25:45):
And you talk about that twin ambition there, and
I've had a huge privilege on theGame Changers to talk to
Paralympians like TanniGray-Thompson and Hannah
Cockcroft, sarah Story, sarah'sstory and sometimes they've
mentioned that the positioningof para-athletes as almost super
humans can sometimes bedetrimental to disabled people,
because the public then thinkevery disabled person should be
(26:06):
able to compete at elite sport.
I don't know what your thoughtsare on that.
Penny Briscoe (26:11):
Yeah, I think it's an interesting debate and I
think at the time Channel 4,let's not underestimate the
incredible work that Channel 4have done to champion para sport
, and that's not just in the UK,that's on a global basis and I
think the superhumans werelaying down a challenge that you
(26:32):
know don't underestimate thepotential, the talent, the
capability of athletes with adisability and hence the super
humans, and especially as parasport hadn't really been seen.
So I think they were.
It was a positioning, it was amarketing and it was also, I
think, respectful of the factthat para athletes are
(26:53):
incredible athletes.
Let's not forget that, firstand foremost, they are
incredible athletes.
Let's not forget that, firstand foremost, they are
incredible athletes.
I think you know the sort of, Iguess, unintended consequences,
that that you know the generalpublic love para sport, but
maybe then some misconceptionsthat well, if they can do that,
then every disabled person can,can achieve that on the field of
(27:13):
play, and that's not the casein non-disabled sport.
So you know, we just need, Ithink, just to have a little bit
of a reality check there.
You know it's a continuum,isn't it?
Participation.
So there are non-disabled anddisabled people that do sport to
stay as fit and well as theypossibly can for their mental
health.
For, you know, grassrootsparticipation, and there are
(27:35):
others who aspire to be the verybest of the very best, and not
everyone will be an olympian whois even an elite athlete, and
the same goes for for paralympicsport.
So, yeah, I, I think you knowthere's there's still work to do
in in the space of in, you know, in terms of education and
messaging, and you know, but Ido think you know, we we've made
(27:55):
huge strides, especially interms of london, you know,
treated a whole nation to, topara sport.
Every kid in the country did aproject on olympic and
paralympic athletes.
We now have generations thathave grown up with power sport
being in the spotlight and I dothink that you know there's a
(28:15):
lot that that that has been donein and around messaging and
education and developingunderstanding, but it's an it's
an ongoing process, isn't it?
Sue Anstiss (28:25):
absolutely.
And what's that?
What is the next big shift thatyou'd like to see in terms of
paris, but we talked about that,the shift that came with london
2012.
But is there something elsethat will, you know, move us
forward in a more momentous wayis Is it revolution or is it
evolution?
Penny Briscoe (28:39):
I mean, I think you know where we are now as a
para-sport movement.
The IPC are as young as we areas the BPA, so you know we're
still very young in themovement's history and I think
the IPC is working really hardto extend the global reach of
para-sport, which is important,so creating more global
diversity.
(28:59):
I think it's working reallyhard.
Just as you know, nations are,in terms of using the athlete
voice to create social change,which has become a, you know, a
hugely significant part of theirwork.
I think global standards willcontinue to to improve as more
nations get involved, as morenations see the value and the
(29:20):
importance and the significanceof para sport.
I think you know there's stillwork to do in and around the
classification system, as oneexample of sort of technical
areas within the movement thatthat need to to improve.
So, yeah, I mean I thinkthere's lots of headroom and, um
, certainly, from ourperspective as a, as the
paralyalympics GB, you knowevery cycle we're looking to be
(29:41):
better and you know we are atthis sort of the upper end of
sophistication.
But let's not forget, you knowthe UK high performance system
is world leading and we've stillgot lots and lots of areas
where we can improve in terms ofathlete preparation, coach
preparation, and you know, youname, name it.
We're pushing, we're stillpushing at a very open door, I
(30:03):
think, in terms of enhancementsand improvements that can be
made in and around the team.
Sue Anstiss (30:08):
And your chef de mission for Paralympics GB.
Can you tell us a bit aboutwhat that role entails?
Penny Briscoe (30:15):
So chef de mission I is it's clearly a
french term and obviously meanschief of the mission and I do
still get asked what I like tocook, and I can tell you that,
whilst I do like cooking, thethought of cooking for 550
teammates is not, I think, wheremy skill set lies.
So, yeah, I mean it's in inreally basic terms.
(30:38):
It's team leader, isn't it?
It's leader of the team, so Itake responsibility for the team
at the games.
We have a president andsecretary general that takes
responsibility for sort of allof the things outside of the
team in terms of all of ourguests and sponsors, and, and so
we sort of divideresponsibilities between between
(31:01):
the sort of athletes and staffteam and then the wider um games
delivery footprint, which ishuge for us as a Paralympics GB.
So, working with my chefdemission team, we look to
create the best possibleenvironment from which to
deliver performance.
We look at ways that we canensure a positive team
experience.
We look at ways that we canensure a positive team
experience.
We look at ways as to how eachand every team member can thrive
(31:23):
, so if we can thrive in thathigh-pressured environment that
comes around once every fouryears for some athletes, some
staff.
It only comes around once.
You know how do we create anenvironment where everyone can
deliver those personal bests andwhen I talk about personal
bests, I mean me as a staffmember and you know the whole
250 other staff members as well.
(31:43):
If we're delivering at our best,then the chances are we're
supporting the athletes to doexactly the same.
So we talk about whole teamwhen we talk about positive team
experience.
We talk about whole team whenwe talk about thriving and we
talk about whole team when wetalk about having a positive
experience.
And you know it's incumbent onme as Jeff, to ensure we uphold
(32:05):
the highest standards ofexcellence in all of our
planning, that we workcollaboratively with the
national governing bodies.
So it really is in it togetherthat we understand the
environment that we're goinginto, because that, ultimately,
is the role of the nationalparalympic committee and that we
work with, with the teamleaders to understand our team.
You know, as I've already said,no two paralympic gb teams is
(32:27):
the same.
No games environment is exactlythe same.
So it's it's trying to keep onthe front foot so that we are
able to maximize the opportunitythat each games affords us as a
Paralympics GB.
Sue Anstiss (32:40):
And for the last few Games.
I mean you alluded to thatearlier, but you faced this
enormous additional challenges.
So in Rio, paralympics almostdidn't take place when the city
went bankrupt.
You then had extreme heat andhumidity to contend with in
Tokyo and all the challengesaround COVID in Beijing.
So how do you personally copewith the tremendous pressure
that comes in that position?
Penny Briscoe (33:03):
I just love the game.
I can't think of a betterenvironment to be in and I think
if you've got that mindset,that is just it's a great
starting point.
I just reflect often onVancouver 2010 and it was
pre-athletes arriving in villageand I just noticed myself that
(33:24):
sort of I guess proprioceptionthat I was kind of walking with
a bounce in my stride, which I'mnot sure is my normal, my, I
don't think I normally have thatswagger.
But you know, when I get intoenvironment, I just I sort of
like shoulders back, chin up,big smile.
This is it, this is this is theopportunity and embrace that
opportunity.
And you know, we all havemechanisms to cope when we're,
(33:48):
when we're under pressure.
Mine is I like to exercise.
I think I'm also reallyfortunate in terms I've worked
with some incredible team.
My current chef de mission teamis hugely experienced some
incredible teams.
My current chef de mission teamis hugely experienced.
We've got a senior leadershipteam that is passionate,
dedicated, hardworking.
We've got great experience ofissue and incident management
(34:09):
through Sochi, rio, pyeongchang,tokyo, beijing.
You know we've had a run ofreally challenging games, but I
think we've grown as individualsand and we've grown as a team
in terms of how we've managedthose environments and Rio, as
you said.
You know, I ended up going intoRio early, not knowing with
(34:32):
Barry Canela, our director ofoperations, not really knowing
what we were going to find.
And it was challenging and youknow, you set yourself simple
tasks and being handed thebuilding over from Team GB and
the cleaners had been suspendedbecause there was widespread
theft, and it was like OK, thefirst thing is let's make this
building shine.
(34:53):
So we started with a chef teamapartment and then, as people
came in, we just we sort ofexpanded that ambition and you
know, get the science andmedicine areas up and running,
let's bring in some new cleaners, let's get the apartment sorted
.
And when the athletes arrived,I had a lot of athletes
contacting me and saying youknow, penny, is it going to be
OK?
And it's going to be OK, guys,it's going to be OK, just get
(35:17):
yourselves over here.
And they arrived and it waslike, oh what?
What's the issue?
This looks amazing.
And obviously you know therewere challenges throughout the
games, but we took control ofwhat we could control and we
created that home from home,that environment where, where
the athletes came in, looksamazing.
Let's crack on business asusual in terms of them
delivering those performances.
(35:38):
But and then they were hearingstories from other nations that
were having a terrible time andyou know, certainly from my
perspective, you know, I thinkwe endeared ourselves to the
organizing committee and that wetried to support them.
We weren't going to the pressbad now, then we just tried to
do what we could do becauseultimately, it's about creating
that environment for theathletes who've been working so
(36:00):
hard and the last thing theywant to hear from us is us
moaning.
They want us to hear positivityand it's going to be okay and
and it was okay and it was anincredible games and you know,
similarly, going into Tokyo,games that might not have
happened because of Covid and itwas the most challenging
environment that I've beeninvolved in and you know it's a
(36:20):
massive thanks to colleagues atTeam GB as well in terms of how
collaborative they were in termsof sharing experiences.
So we had some insights of whatwe might be facing.
But again, it kind of felt likewe talked earlier on about
what's special about the, thepara sport movements, and
athletes arrived and again,didn't bemoan the situation.
(36:43):
They were just grateful thatthey had an opportunity to
compete and they'd worked sohard under, you know, really
challenging prep conditions athome and very little competition
.
And you know we had stories ofRyan's shooting shed, of one of
the shooters setting up ashooting area through his house
into a shed in his garden.
You know we had stories ofRyan's shooting shed, of one of
the shooters setting up ashooting area through his house
into a shed in his garden.
You know there was all sorts ofincredible stuff going on, but
(37:05):
seeing the athletes' smilingfaces getting off the bus coming
into the village brought a tearto my eye and it really was.
It kind of felt like a siegementality at times but we came
together as the most cohesiveteam and I think one of my
concerns going into Tokyo isthat we wouldn't get kind of
positive reflections on thegames or the team experience and
(37:29):
it was actually quite thecontrary in terms of multi-games
athletes saying it was actuallymy best games, the best
experience and and I think itwas that siege mentality of us
being in it together and broughtus together as as a team and
the camaraderie and the support.
It was just unbelievable and Ithink it's testimony to the
(37:52):
mindset of our athletes and andtheir support teams and and and
the Paralympics GB support teamas well.
Sue Anstiss (37:59):
And how did the delay to Tokyo and then having
just three years between thegames impact your role?
I feel you've been very hard toget hold of, so I know you're
really busy, but has it made amassive difference having 25%
less time almost to prep forParis?
Penny Briscoe (38:14):
Yeah, I mean Tokyo, as I say, was brutal
because we just planned andreplanned and planned and
replanned and ripped up plansand you know everything was
happening really last minute andit meant that you know we were
trying to focus as well onBeijing, which we knew was going
to be just six months after,and and where we ended up was
splitting the chef de missionrole between summer and winter
(38:35):
games.
So I was focusing on on Tokyowell, we're all focusing on
Tokyo, to be honest but we'dappointed Phil Smith as first
time chef de mission for Beijing.
So when we got home from Tokyo,I led all the post Tokyo
debriefs whilst Phil and histeam just went full steam ahead
with that six month window andagain facing the same challenges
(38:58):
that we had in in Tokyo waslate information, planning, repl
, replanning, COVID challenges,COVID, countermeasures.
That I think the approach paidoff.
Phil and his team did anincredible job in Beijing and in
that sort of six months I wasfocusing more on Paris and
getting the sort of the planthat was there it had been there
(39:19):
, you know, 18 months sort ofresurrecting that plan and
trying to fast track it.
So you just feel at times we'vebeen playing catch up going
into Paris.
But you know, again, I thinkwe're confident.
You know we're confident thatwe've dealt with such
challenging games that it mightnot be our optimal delivery
timeframe, but actually we know,we kind of know what we're
(39:41):
doing and what to expect.
We're all looking forward to anon-COVID Games, keeping
everything crossed.
We're looking forward to aGames that's just across the
water we're looking forward to.
I think it will be aspectacular Games.
You know, I think the ParisOrganising Committee will do an
amazing, amazing job and I thinkjust again, yeah, just being
(40:01):
positive that it's our nextopportunity to showcase
brilliant para sport to globalaudiences.
And, yeah, we're all workinghard.
It's probably one of our mostcomplex master plans because
we've got so many sports thatare actually preparing in the UK
.
We've got a handful of sportsthat are preparing in and around
(40:22):
Paris.
We've got lots of differentaccommodations in and around
Paris, We've got a huge guestand commercial program and
friends and family.
So it's going to be really,really exciting and you know,
we're just under now 500 days togo and it really does feel like
it's hotting up Lots and lotsof qualification events coming
up for the sport.
(40:42):
So, yeah, it sort of feels likeit's getting to the pointy end
of the cycle and that we missedquite a bit of the front end of
the cycle, but we're gettingthere.
Sue Anstiss (40:54):
Super exciting.
You've obviously had such along career at the same
organisation, but it's anorganisation that's changed
significantly over time too.
I was going to ask you ifyou've considered other roles,
but when I hear your passion andenthusiasm I can kind of see
why not.
But have you thought aboutother sports, other roles, in
your time there?
Penny Briscoe (41:12):
Yeah, I had a bit of a sticky patch just in terms
of how I was feeling about myrole, sort of Beijing time, but
the sort of the lure of LondonLondon really, I guess kept me
going and and then, with TimHollingsworth coming in in 2011,
we just created a sort ofrelationship CEO, director of
(41:34):
sport, chef, submissionrelationship.
That was incredible, you know,really complementary skill set.
I was disappointed not to getthe chef gig going into our home
games in 12.
But sort of Tim explained to methat it was really important
that I work closely with him toget the new strategy online.
And you know, craig Hunter camein as chef de mission and I had
(41:54):
a bit of a wobble at that point.
And again, it was another oneof those moments where I sort of
sat down and had a sterntalking to myself.
If I walked away at that stage,what would it say about me and
my values?
What would it say about me andeverything that I'd committed to
para-sport over that firstdecade and that you know, I was
as passionate to support theathletes going into London as I
(42:18):
ever was and I just had to putmy personal ambition sort of
slightly on the side burner andhope that I would get an
opportunity based on continuedgood performance, and I did.
And it's relationships like theone that I had with Tim that
really helped reignite yourpassion.
Sometimes and, as I said, everygame is different, every team is
(42:40):
different London was a catalystto being in some ways feeling
like I was in a differentmovement post london than that
than I had been, and it justfelt it was, you know, an
opportunity to stay and just tosee where we would, we would go
in.
It was just so good to see theathletes being recognized.
It was so good you strictlycome down the thing to question
(43:01):
of sport, to the bake-off, youname it.
Parathletes were there.
You know, pre-london probablyTanny Gray and Addy were the two
athletes that sort of thegeneral public knew about.
But every community now hasembraced parasport, has their
own parasport heroes and youknow it's quite right that we're
seeing the guys get therecognition that they deserve.
(43:23):
So yeah, I'd say, if a game'stoo hard, then my career at the
BPA has been the sort of thepre-London and then the
post-London, and us as anorganisation we're far more
ambitious, having had theopportunity of the home games to
really sort of strike out interms of our strategy and not
just the sort of championingchange in terms of the sort of
(43:44):
strike out in terms of ourstrategy and not just the sort
of championing change in termsof the sort of the advocacy.
We've got a para-sport platformwhich is now rebranded as
Everybody Moves.
It's a community platformdesigned to engage, get
connections, provideopportunities, and you know, we
know, that disabled people weredisproportionately impacted by
COVID.
We know the similardisproportionality, we know that
(44:04):
disabled people weredisproportionately impacted by
COVID.
We know the similardisproportionality of the cost
of living crisis.
And I think we're, you knowwe're ambitious to play a role
in terms of creating opportunity, creating a difference,
championing change, just kind ofwhat it says on the tin, really
.
So it's an exciting time and Ithink if you get up in the
(44:26):
morning and you feel passionateand you can smile about the day,
you've got ahead, why would youseek something else if you
don't believe it?
It would be better.
Sue Anstiss (44:35):
Brilliant, brilliant.
And lastly, I was reallyexcited to learn that your
daughter, lizzie, is a potentialworld-class athlete too.
So can you tell me about her,her ambitions, and I guess, what
it feels like on the other sideof being a parent of an athlete
at that level too?
Penny Briscoe (44:52):
I empathize and sympathize with every sporting
parent, especially with verydetermined um young athletes.
It's a one wonder to get myselfinto hot water.
Lizzie hates me talking abouther and sport.
So Lizzie is part of theBritish Triathlon Programme.
Just like her mum, she's anout-and-out sports nut.
(45:13):
Her brother was equally asporty but is moving on to other
university endeavours.
But Lizzie's been, I think,really fortunate in terms of.
She's a talented athlete.
She played for Derby FootballAcademy, girls Academy, great
runner, before finding triathlon, which was through school, a
very, very committed teacher whois now a family friend.
(45:36):
So thank you, helen Dusick,thank you For Life Tri Club and
here in Not in knots, greatsupport, a great volunteer base
and then moving through to sortof you know, the the regional
academy onto the england nextgeneration squads, getting
selected for gbu gb junior andlast year getting her first
(45:58):
international medals as anindividual and also a mixed team
relay bronze in the EuropeanChampionship.
So you know it is thanks to theBritish Triathlon Pathway,
which does support youngathletes really well, and she's
at Leeds University now, whichis obviously one of the key
centres for British fly.
She's got a new coach in NOMStanford which she's hugely
(46:20):
excited by and I think she'sjust a really pragmatic young
athlete in terms of she wants tocontinue to get better in each
of the disciplines.
She knows how important that is.
She's a really honest,hard-working athlete and I think
she just wants to be able torepresent Great Britain at every
level.
And she's got a challengingyear, first year uni.
She's in stepped up into theunder 23 age category, so
(46:45):
hopefully it's just a year ofconsolidation and um and then
looking at to where that mightgo in terms of future gb
selection.
So I just wanted to be happyand healthy and and to love a
sport and um.
You know I've I I love sport.
You know I've loved sport allmy life and know I know the
opportunities that it can giveyou, not just in terms of being
(47:06):
an elite athlete, but the lifeskills that being in the
sporting environment I guessenables you with.
So yeah, we'll see.
Sue Anstiss (47:20):
I really enjoyed talking to Penny.
If you'd like to hear more fromother senior women leading
bushish sport, head over tofearlesswomencouk, where you'll
find other episodes where Ispeak to the likes of Sally
Mundy, liz Nicol, katherineGranger, sue Day and Claire
Connor, as well as listening toall the podcasts.
(47:43):
On the website, you can alsofind out more about the Women's
Sport Collective, a free,inclusive community for all
women working in sport.
You can sign up for theFearless Women newsletter, which
highlights the developments inglobal women's sport, and
there's more about my book gameon the unstoppable rise of
(48:04):
women's sport.
Thank you again to sport englandfor backing the game changes
through a national lottery award, and to sam walker at what goes
on media, who does such a greatjob as our executive producer.
Thank you also to my colleagueat fearless women, kate hannon.
(48:28):
The game changes is free tolisten to and you can find it on
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Do follow us or subscribe tomake sure you don't miss out on
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Do come and say hello on socialmedia, where you'll find me on
(48:51):
instagram, linkedin and twitterat sue anstis.
The game changes fearless womenin sport.
Hello and welcome to the Game Changers.
I'm Sue Anstiss, and this isthe podcast where you'll hear
from trailblazing women in sport.
What can we learn from theirjourneys as we explore some of
the key issues around equalityin sport and beyond.
I'd like to start with a bigthank you to our partners, sport
England, who support the gamechangers through a national
(00:28):
lottery award.
My guest today has beeninstrumental in the success of
the British Paralympic team,helping them to achieve a
record-breaking medal haul at 10Paralympic summer and winter
Games.
Penny Briscoe competed for GreatBritain in Canoe Slalom before
(00:49):
becoming Senior National Coachfor the British team at the
Atlanta 1996 and Sydney 2000Olympic Games.
She's worked in Parasport as acoach, team manager and
performance director and is nowDirector of Sport at the British
Paralympic Association.
She's also the chef de missionfor Paralympics GB.
(01:10):
In 2017, enny was awarded anOBE for her services to
disability sport.
Penny, I'd like to start atLoughborough, if I can, as I
hadn't realised until I wasdoing my research that we were
both there at the same time fora year in 1988.
And I think you were theredoing a PGCE, so was the plan
(01:31):
always to become a teacher?
It?
Penny Briscoe (01:33):
It was half a plan.
I think I grew up being a sportmad kid.
Anything to do with sport wasmy bag and as I got to do my O
levels at the time it's that faroff fact it was like decision
time.
What was I going to do?
What was I going to do for my Alevels and then what was I
going to do beyond my A levelsand in sport at that time, as a
(01:55):
female, there were probably onlytwo options.
One was being a PE teacher, theother was probably being a
physio, and I didn't really seetoo much else and I didn't
really see myself in the sciencespace.
So I kind of went down the PGCEroute.
So I did my undergrad atBirmingham.
I did history and PE, which wasbrilliant, and then I went to
(02:16):
Loughborough to do my PGCE,which again was a fabulous year
and I think in many waysprovided huge inspiration for me
as a teacher, then as a coach.
Sue Anstiss (02:28):
And so why not PE or teaching?
Because actually that was myroute when I first went there.
I, like you, similar time, butwanted to be a PE teacher.
So what was the point to whichyou changed, you think?
Penny Briscoe (02:39):
Well, I taught for six years in secondary ed
here in Nottingham and then Idid a year in, or just under a
year actually, at StaffordCollege.
So I did enjoy teaching but itwas too much of an opportunity.
There was a sort of ashort-term role came up for for
a full-time coach to work withwithin British Canoeing.
(03:00):
There was a nationalperformance coach but they were
recruiting an additional coachfor the Atlanta Games and I
hadn't taken that leap of faithas an athlete to sort of train
full time and see how good Icould be, and I always regretted
that, that I didn't reallyachieve my dreams as an athlete,
always working full time andnever really having the optimal
(03:24):
training environment, and thiswas my chance at redemption to
do something that I was reallyproud of.
So I took that leap of faith,took a nine-month contract with
the British Canoe Union andbecame that assistant Olympic
coach as it was in that firstyear and then lottery funding
came towards the back end of 97or 96 into 97 and then I got a
(03:50):
full-time contract.
So I took a leap of faith andthen was in the right place at
the right time to be able tosort of maximise that
opportunity.
Sue Anstiss (03:58):
That's fantastic to hear, isn't it?
And obviously you were almostpre that lottery funding
yourself as an athlete.
Do you think, had there beenthat funding, you would have
continued a longer careercompeting yourself?
Penny Briscoe (04:09):
That's an interesting question.
And I think there was fundingcoming into British canoeing
because we were one of the bestnations in the world, but it
tended to be the old Foundationof Sport and Arts or the SAF, so
there were just not too manyawards.
There were some good awards, butthey were, you know, we had
(04:30):
world champions and olympicmedalists and and I was kind of
just below that tier of athlete.
I think the biggest issue forme is I picked up a lot of
injuries and I think that thatwas probably working full-time,
always seeming to be on the go,training at the wrong times of
the day, not really recovering,not focusing on prehab, let
alone rehab.
My shoulders were, were justabsolutely shot to pieces.
So I think I sort of retiredgracefully, without ever saying
(04:52):
I'd retired, but knowing that Iwasn't going to go to Atlanta as
an athlete and just wanting totake that opportunity to be at a
games I just really dreamt of,of taking that opportunity and
and I did.
And you know I'm really proudof what I achieved as a coach
for British Canoe and as theonly female full-time coach in
the program at that time and hadan incredible experience as
(05:16):
being part of those two Olympicsummer game cycles.
Sue Anstiss (05:20):
And what was it like being a coach at those
games?
And I think, such a fantasticopportunity for you as a young
coach or a newer coach reallytoo.
Penny Briscoe (05:28):
Yeah, I'd always coach not always coach, but I'd,
you know, teach, and I guess mything is helping others,
whether it be teaching, whetherit be coaching.
So even when I was doing myundergrad I supported the GB
juniors and then I worked withthe Welsh squad, I did some
private coaching.
(05:48):
So from you know my sort oflate teens, early twenties, I
sort of got into coachingbecause it was the sort of a
natural synergy with thedirection I was going in as a
teacher, always enjoyed it, youknow, I probably enjoyed it
because it was my sport and Iwas so passionate about my sport
and and wanting to be part ofit and I guess, knowing I wasn't
(06:11):
going to succeed as an athlete,well, you know, could I, could
I achieve something as a coach?
So to be part of the, of thesetup going into Sydney was
hugely exciting and we didn'thave our best games.
It was I don't know if youremember, sue, but 1996 the
british media dubbed team gb asthe team of shane.
I think it was the worst set ofresults in something like 36
(06:34):
years or something.
And um, as a gb canoeing squadwe went in with high hopes.
We'd had a great worldchampionship, the home world
championships.
In 1995 we went in with medalpotential pretty well in every
class and um the you know thatit's fine margins in in white
walking her in and um, a coupleof couple of things went against
(06:55):
us.
Lynn ray should have, couldhave medaled, paul ratcliffe
could have.
He was sort of theup-and-coming gareth marriott.
We had great athletes and wejust didn't have the best games.
And you know I felt I felt sadwith the sort of the up and
coming Gareth Marriott.
We had great athletes and wejust didn't have the best games.
And you know I felt sad with thesort of some of the press that
we had, because nobody goes intoa major championship trying to
fail.
(07:15):
You know there was so much hardwork that had gone in, there
was so much potential withinthat team and you know we
bounced back at the World Cupfinal just a few weeks later and
thankfully, you know we wentforward as a team and and I
think, keeping tennessee lyleand his medals, multiple medals
at every game since then.
Sydney was a differentexperience.
Paul ratcliffe got silver andyou know we had some great
(07:38):
supporting results as well andum, you know I guess that first
game um was of mixed experiencesbut it kind of got me hooked
and I just love that multi-sport, the pressure of that once
every four-year environment, andI just wanted more.
So that was me started really.
Sue Anstiss (07:58):
And we don't see, do we many elite female coaches
at that top end Olympics andParalympics.
So what was it like at the time, you know, in 96, 2000?
Was it any different then?
Penny Briscoe (08:09):
no, I mean I think I was probably the only
female on the circuit at thattime and and where you found
your company was that a lot ofphysios tended to be female.
So, going back to my originalanalogy of what do you do if
you're a female and you want toexcel in sport and um, a big,
big ally of mine was Julie Stark, who was a still part of the
EIS system, and we were kind ofthe two females in a very male
(08:32):
dominated coaching team.
But you know, it's thatdiversity, isn't it, which helps
create environments where bothathletes and staff can thrive.
So I think it was a great stepforward for British Canoeing and
I was probably one of the fewin the UK system at that time
that was full-time, professional, and so you know, I kind of
(08:52):
hope that it did pave the wayfor others and it's certainly
now a more diverse workforce,which it quite likely should be.
But there's still work to do,isn't there?
Sue Anstiss (09:02):
absolutely, and what do you think makes it a
great coach?
Penny Briscoe (09:06):
I think from my personal experiences, it's kind
of just being yourself, I thinkyou've got to be.
You've got to be passionateabout what you do in.
In my belief, I think at timesI was probably a bit too
passionate and that wascertainly one of the things that
through my career I've had tosort of curb a little bit and
and learn to sort of flex mystyle rather than full out
(09:26):
passion all of the time, which Ithink is quite wearing for
others.
But I think from my perspectivethat I would say the synergy
between teaching and coaching,so being well prepared for your
sessions, making sure that youcommunicate early, you
communicate appropriately, Ithink, just being ambitious in
terms of, I guess, working withlike-minded people, setting the
(09:49):
ground rules.
So I coached a few youngathletes early on, very talented
GB young athletes, but workingwith them to sort of balance
studies with training, withhaving some sort of social life
and and how that sort of ebbsand flows through the year and I
guess, getting to know theindividual, getting to know
their family, their personalcircumstances and to sort of
(10:12):
create the right environment,because every athlete is
different, every athleteresponds differently to coaching
style and I think it's marryingup the individual athlete or
that group of athletes, thinkit's marrying up the individual
athlete or that group ofathletes with you as a as a
coach, and your preferences andand trying to get the best out
of each other.
So you know, it's definitely acheck and challenge environment.
(10:33):
I think it has to be open andhonest.
But I think you know thecritical thing is creating safe
and secure environments whereyou can be yourself and you can
say how you feel and that's onboth sides and have you seen a
change in the culture aroundcoaching elite athletes from, I
mean 30 years ago, as youstarted out at Atlanta and so on
(10:54):
.
Sue Anstiss (10:54):
Does it feel like it's a different place?
That's?
Penny Briscoe (10:57):
a really interesting question and I think
that you know the world hasmoved on, hasn't it?
In the last 30 years, and Ithink we're different
generations.
I was a different generation asan athlete, as I was as a coach
, as I now am as a director andleader, and I think we have to
respond to how generationalchanges have impacted in what
(11:23):
athletes want from their sport,what they want from, you know,
their careers.
I think there has been a change.
I think, really, we have tolisten, we have to understand
and not just make assumptions,you know, as to what.
What athletes want now is quitedifferent and how they want to
be coached, how they want to becommunicated with.
(11:45):
Yeah, I mean, I I think it hasshifted and but I think we had
great coaches pre-lottery and Ithink we've still got great
coaches.
Yes, we've had challenges inthe system, um, but I think we,
when you know we're addressingthose challenges and again,
quite likely, you know, health,well-being of athletes, health
and well-being of staff shouldbe paramount to the system If
(12:07):
it's going to be sustainable, ifit's going to be healthy, if
it's going to be positive, youknow, from a cultural
perspective.
Sue Anstiss (12:15):
Absolutely, absolutely.
You joined the BritishParalympic Association in 2001.
So what first attracted you tothe BPA and working in para
sport?
Penny Briscoe (12:24):
It wasn't directly the BPA that I was
looking to.
So again, this is kind of oneof those unintended consequences
of a coach excel.
I think it was back in the daycatch-up session with Rosie Mays
.
I'd said to her you know, maybelooking for change I've been in
this sport for over 30 yearsnow as an athlete and coach and
maybe have something differentto look forward to post-Sydney,
maybe looking for change.
I've been in this sport forover 30 years now as an athlete
(12:45):
and coach and maybe maybe havesomething different to look
forward to post Sydney, maybe doa bit less traveling.
I remember saying to her shesaid oh, there's a couple of
great jobs with David Tillotsonat the British Paralympic
Association coming up and maybeyou should apply.
And I thought, okay, I'll havea look at that.
And they were.
I think they were calledprogram managers at that time.
So I went for an interview, gotone of the roles.
(13:07):
Joss Hoyt-Smith later joinedthe VPA for a short while in a
similar role and then I probablyspent the first six months
thinking I'm not sure this iswhat I expected.
I think I applied, thinking thatOlympic sportic sport,
paralympic sport were in, wereparallel at that time.
You know they were.
(13:28):
They were just slightlydifferent environments, but the
reality was para sport was wasquite developmental.
You know, the reality is wewere only formed as a bpa in
1989, so the first games as aparalympmpic GB was 1992.
So whilst our movement wasformed out of the atrocities of
(13:48):
World War II, our movement isstill relatively young compared
to it, to our Olympiccounterparts.
So there hadn't been a lot ofinvestment that you know.
The team had had success, butit was quite developmental.
There were pockets of goodpractice, but I think in 2001 we
had two full-time coaches ordirectors, one was in athletics
(14:09):
and one was in swimming, and sothe the environment that I came
into was quite different and andI didn't necessarily feel that
the sort of that developmentside was my, was my skill set.
You know, I was used to workingwith elite athletes, a
successful Olympic program, andit was one of those, I guess,
moments where I just needed tosort of sit and just reflect and
(14:30):
and where I got to was I canthrow stones from the outside,
you know, saying well, thisisn't what I was expecting, or I
can kind of roll my sleeves upand really step inside and try
and make a difference, and andthat was what I decided to do,
that I would try and learn andunderstand this new environment
because that effectively waswhat it was and try and use my
(14:51):
skills and experiences fromOlympic sport and and that was
everything from world-classstart to potential through to
the elite level and and try andtake those learnings as an
athlete, as a coach, as a youknow, we we co-wrote the the
first world class plan in thatpost Atlanta period try and take
all of those, I guess, skillsand experiences and bring them
(15:12):
to bear in this new environment.
And you know it was.
It was quite humbling.
I learned an awful lot from,from one of my colleagues, kaz
Walton, who was a, I guess,pioneers of para sport, multiple
gold medalist.
As an athlete, still works forthe British Paralympic
Association now and learned somuch from her about para sport,
(15:32):
worked with great people in theBPA and the system from sort of
2001 onwards just kind ofstarted to evolve.
There wasn't the same level ofinvestment into Olympic sport
but that really did take amassive step forward when the
home games were announced in2005.
But I remember quite visiblysort of just taking things back
(15:52):
to basics and talking about, youknow, working with British
athletics and how do we manageexpectations of the athletes?
How do we move not only Britishathletics para program but the
global, I guess, guess parasport program forward in terms
of taking these pockets of bestpractice and actually using
those role models that?
(16:13):
You know, tanny Gray Thompson,you know we had some brilliant,
brilliant athletes.
How do we take how they workand make that the norm?
So, you know, almost raisingthe bar for every single athlete
that comes on to a program.
So we did a program calledbeyond goals.
Yes, we could win goals, but wewanted more than that.
We wanted to, you know,professionalize the system, how
(16:34):
we train, how we prepare, how wecoach, how we manage.
And so it was kind of that'swhere it started and um, and
then it, you know, the movementhas just grown massively, hasn't
it?
Sue Anstiss (16:45):
And you mentioned that obviously Paralympics was
born in the UK and we've gotthis long and proud history.
But how is the BPA viewedglobally?
Penny Briscoe (16:54):
I think the British Paralympic Association
is really well respected.
Clearly we're hugely successfuldown to the talented athletes
and their really dedicatedsupport staff.
Down to the talented athletesand their really dedicated
support staff.
We feature highly on the medaltable, but we also, I think, do
really well off the field ofplay.
So, whether that be ineducation, classification,
(17:16):
there's an awful lot we do.
That, I think, has benefitednot only Parasport in GB but
also on a global basis.
We work collaboratively withcolleagues.
I've mentored colleagues fromaround the globe and new chef
submissions.
So I think you know we take ourposition really seriously in
terms of yes, of course we wantto be successful, that's what
it's all about.
But actually we also want tosupport the growth of the
(17:38):
movement and I think londoncertainly helped kick the
movement forward with a massivekickstart.
But you know we've still got away to go.
It's a new movement.
Yes, we've made massive,massive strides in the 20 years
plus that I've been part of theBPA and part of the movement,
but there's more to come.
You know we haven't reached theceiling by any means.
Sue Anstiss (17:59):
And what's your day-to-day role now as Director
of Sport at the BritishParalympic Association?
Penny Briscoe (18:05):
Yeah, I'm part of our exec team, so obviously
responsible for the overallstrategy delivery.
So we launched a new strategy,a 10-year strategy, last year
called Championing Change, andthat strategy is very much
two-pronged.
Part of the strategy is beingthat world-leading team on the
field of play, being thatworld-leading team on the field
(18:25):
of play and part of the strategyis actually how we use success
on the field of play to championchange off the field of play.
So how do we change perceptions, how do we create a better
lived experience for disabledpeople?
How do we use our position toinfluence, to advocate?
And you know it's a hugelyexciting strategy and one that
the whole organization hasembraced, which is is fantastic
(18:48):
to see.
So there's that kind of levelof leadership and direct
responsibility.
And then, obviously, I lead asmall but perfectly formed sport
team who are absolutely amazing, work very closely with the
director of operations in andaround everything to do with
best prepared teams and you knowI've been responsible for
leading the development of ourbest prepared team strategy over
(19:11):
multiple game cycles, includingour funding submissions to uk
sport, and you know we're hugelygrateful as a bpa for the
lottery support that we've hadvia UK Sport as far back, I
think, as sort of Sydney 2000.
So it's a massive part ofenabling us to be that world
leading national Paralympiccommittee and you know long may
(19:34):
it continue.
Sue Anstiss (19:35):
And what is it for you personally that makes
Parasport so special, thatyou've remained in that space
for so long?
Yeah, so so.
Penny Briscoe (19:42):
I guess, from sort of fairly shaky beginnings
it didn't take long actuallyhaving made that decision.
Come on, I can make adifference here as soon as I met
the athletes and a couple ofthe first camps I went on.
One was with Bochia and it wasjust eye-opening just to see
their talent and the skill thatthey have.
(20:04):
And that was like crikey.
I had no idea but just fell inlove with it.
You know, fell in love with thesport by the thing.
You know multi-sport from.
You know box here to you knownewer sports such as para
badminton, para canoe, triathlon.
You know the athletic swimming.
You know it's an amazingenvironment to be working with
(20:25):
so many different sports summerand winter.
So that in itself is hugelyexciting as a sport fan.
But also just the athletes therewere just so many nice in a
very strange word but lovelypeople.
They're absolutely ferocious intheir competitive nature and
determined to do well.
(20:46):
But there was just so manygreat people the coaches, the
PDs, the team leaders.
It kind of feels like you knowI love a hashtag that you know
and I use in it together.
It kind of feels like we're init together and we're there
working to support the ambitionsof the athlete to support the
success of the team but also, Ithink, the broader success of
(21:07):
the UK high performance system.
It really has felt like ajourney of belonging, and
belonging to something that ishugely exciting, that has
evolved over successive gamecycles and, as I've already said
, I think the best is still tocome, or more is still to come.
So it's fresh.
(21:28):
Every game is different, everyteam is different, and that's
what makes it for me just soexciting.
Can we create those environmentswhere every athlete and staff
member can deliver thosepersonal best and, you know,
medal winning performances?
Can we create thoseenvironments you know we get one
chance every four years, summerand winter to create
(21:49):
environments where team membershave a fantastic time and
clearly we're there to deliverperformance.
But we're also very, veryconscious about team experience
and that for me, is thechallenge to get the balance but
also to create theopportunities to absolutely
smash it on the performancefront and to see smiles and just
to hear that.
(22:10):
You know the laughter and thecamaraderie and and, despite the
challenges and and, whether itbe Rio, whether it be Tokyo,
pyeongchang, beijing, there wereso many smiles, there was fun,
there was laughter and you know,yes, there was so much talent,
but I think, being part of teamsthat have come together in
support of the athlete ambitionsand had, you know, an amazing
(22:33):
time in doing so, you paint suchan exciting picture, making me
goosebumps just thinking aboutit and, I guess, that feeling of
the Paralympic sport too.
Sue Anstiss (22:43):
We obviously saw such a huge transformation for
Paralympic sport around London2012, which you've alluded to.
So how did that feel being onthe other side, almost being
inside the sport?
Penny Briscoe (22:55):
Oh, I mean 2012 was was incredible, and we got a
new CEO in in in 2011, timHollingsworth, who's now
obviously CEO at Sport Englandand working with our director of
Marcon's at the time, janeJones, and they were just a
formidable force to be reckonedwith in terms of the ambition
(23:15):
that they could see in terms of.
We wanted to be successful onthe field of play, but we had
this twin track ambition, whichwas to change perceptions and
create change off the field ofplay, and the reality was that
the media hadn't really everreally grasped the potential of
para-sport.
So my first games in 2004, onthe Parmpic side, tanny gray
(23:40):
thompson probably winning herninth and tenth gold medals in
in athens, probably in front ofabout 200 people and a similar
number of adults in the nationalstadium, and I was just so sad.
I didn't understand why therewas this great sport but nobody
seemed to care and the Britishmedia at that time hadn't
embraced para sport.
And it took awarding of thehome games in 2005 and channel 4
(24:05):
stepping up into that space toreally do justice and to shine
the spotlight on para athletesfor the first time.
And you know, I talk about theathletes stepping out of the
shadows of their Olympiccounterparts and that media
spotlight as well as filledstadia, which was obviously a
another part of the shadows oftheir Olympic counterparts, and
that media spotlight, as well asfilled stadia, which was
obviously a another part of thesuccess of London, just meant
(24:25):
that so many people realizedjust how brilliant power sport
is, how incredible the athletesare, and embraced it, and it was
such a step forward, and Ithink that we did.
You know, we were successful onthe field of play and we started
to make some inroads and,whilst that hasn't necessarily
been a linear progression, Ithink that the ambition that the
(24:45):
organisation clearly stated wasone that I think has stood us
in good stead as a movement, asan organisation, and one that
just still needs to continue tobe worked on.
You know, we can't becomplacent in this space and I
think Hannah Cockcroft, just inthe last few weeks, has talked
(25:06):
about reigniting the passion forpara-sport and, with a European
game so very close over inParis, we're hoping that,
without crowds in Tokyo, therewasn't necessarily the same
passion, the same fervour, but Ithink that the Parisians are
going to host an incredibleGames and I think there'll be
(25:27):
thousands and thousands oftravelling fans who, again, I
think it will reignite thepassion for Palace Sport and
then just, I guess, reinforcethat platform that allows the
athletes to use their voice forchange, and positive change for
disabled people.
Sue Anstiss (25:45):
And you talk about that twin ambition there, and
I've had a huge privilege on theGame Changers to talk to
Paralympians like TanniGray-Thompson and Hannah
Cockcroft, sarah Story, sarah'sstory and sometimes they've
mentioned that the positioningof para-athletes as almost super
humans can sometimes bedetrimental to disabled people,
because the public then thinkevery disabled person should be
(26:06):
able to compete at elite sport.
I don't know what your thoughtsare on that.
Penny Briscoe (26:11):
Yeah, I think it's an interesting debate and I
think at the time Channel 4,let's not underestimate the
incredible work that Channel 4have done to champion para sport
, and that's not just in the UK,that's on a global basis and I
think the superhumans werelaying down a challenge that you
(26:32):
know don't underestimate thepotential, the talent, the
capability of athletes with adisability and hence the super
humans, and especially as parasport hadn't really been seen.
So I think they were.
It was a positioning, it was amarketing and it was also, I
think, respectful of the factthat para athletes are
(26:53):
incredible athletes.
Let's not forget that, firstand foremost, they are
incredible athletes.
Let's not forget that, firstand foremost, they are
incredible athletes.
I think you know the sort of, Iguess, unintended consequences,
that that you know the generalpublic love para sport, but
maybe then some misconceptionsthat well, if they can do that,
then every disabled person can,can achieve that on the field of
(27:13):
play, and that's not the casein non-disabled sport.
So you know, we just need, Ithink, just to have a little bit
of a reality check there.
You know it's a continuum,isn't it?
Participation.
So there are non-disabled anddisabled people that do sport to
stay as fit and well as theypossibly can for their mental
health.
For, you know, grassrootsparticipation, and there are
(27:35):
others who aspire to be the verybest of the very best, and not
everyone will be an olympian whois even an elite athlete, and
the same goes for for paralympicsport.
So, yeah, I, I think you knowthere's there's still work to do
in in the space of in, you know, in terms of education and
messaging, and you know, but Ido think you know, we we've made
(27:55):
huge strides, especially interms of london, you know,
treated a whole nation to, topara sport.
Every kid in the country did aproject on olympic and
paralympic athletes.
We now have generations thathave grown up with power sport
being in the spotlight and I dothink that you know there's a
(28:15):
lot that that that has been donein and around messaging and
education and developingunderstanding, but it's an it's
an ongoing process, isn't it?
Sue Anstiss (28:25):
absolutely.
And what's that?
What is the next big shift thatyou'd like to see in terms of
paris, but we talked about that,the shift that came with london
2012.
But is there something elsethat will, you know, move us
forward in a more momentous wayis Is it revolution or is it
evolution?
Penny Briscoe (28:39):
I mean, I think you know where we are now as a
para-sport movement.
The IPC are as young as we areas the BPA, so you know we're
still very young in themovement's history and I think
the IPC is working really hardto extend the global reach of
para-sport, which is important,so creating more global
diversity.
(28:59):
I think it's working reallyhard.
Just as you know, nations are,in terms of using the athlete
voice to create social change,which has become a, you know, a
hugely significant part of theirwork.
I think global standards willcontinue to to improve as more
nations get involved, as morenations see the value and the
(29:20):
importance and the significanceof para sport.
I think you know there's stillwork to do in and around the
classification system, as oneexample of sort of technical
areas within the movement thatthat need to to improve.
So, yeah, I mean I thinkthere's lots of headroom and, um
, certainly, from ourperspective as a, as the
paralyalympics GB, you knowevery cycle we're looking to be
(29:41):
better and you know we are atthis sort of the upper end of
sophistication.
But let's not forget, you knowthe UK high performance system
is world leading and we've stillgot lots and lots of areas
where we can improve in terms ofathlete preparation, coach
preparation, and you know, youname, name it.
We're pushing, we're stillpushing at a very open door, I
(30:03):
think, in terms of enhancementsand improvements that can be
made in and around the team.
Sue Anstiss (30:08):
And your chef de mission for Paralympics GB.
Can you tell us a bit aboutwhat that role entails?
Penny Briscoe (30:15):
So chef de mission I is it's clearly a
french term and obviously meanschief of the mission and I do
still get asked what I like tocook, and I can tell you that,
whilst I do like cooking, thethought of cooking for 550
teammates is not, I think, wheremy skill set lies.
So, yeah, I mean it's in inreally basic terms.
(30:38):
It's team leader, isn't it?
It's leader of the team, so Itake responsibility for the team
at the games.
We have a president andsecretary general that takes
responsibility for sort of allof the things outside of the
team in terms of all of ourguests and sponsors, and, and so
we sort of divideresponsibilities between between
(31:01):
the sort of athletes and staffteam and then the wider um games
delivery footprint, which ishuge for us as a Paralympics GB.
So, working with my chefdemission team, we look to
create the best possibleenvironment from which to
deliver performance.
We look at ways that we canensure a positive team
experience.
We look at ways that we canensure a positive team
experience.
We look at ways as to how eachand every team member can thrive
(31:23):
, so if we can thrive in thathigh-pressured environment that
comes around once every fouryears for some athletes, some
staff.
It only comes around once.
You know how do we create anenvironment where everyone can
deliver those personal bests andwhen I talk about personal
bests, I mean me as a staffmember and you know the whole
250 other staff members as well.
(31:43):
If we're delivering at our best,then the chances are we're
supporting the athletes to doexactly the same.
So we talk about whole teamwhen we talk about positive team
experience.
We talk about whole team whenwe talk about thriving and we
talk about whole team when wetalk about having a positive
experience.
And you know it's incumbent onme as Jeff, to ensure we uphold
(32:05):
the highest standards ofexcellence in all of our
planning, that we workcollaboratively with the
national governing bodies.
So it really is in it togetherthat we understand the
environment that we're goinginto, because that, ultimately,
is the role of the nationalparalympic committee and that we
work with, with the teamleaders to understand our team.
You know, as I've already said,no two paralympic gb teams is
(32:27):
the same.
No games environment is exactlythe same.
So it's it's trying to keep onthe front foot so that we are
able to maximize the opportunitythat each games affords us as a
Paralympics GB.
Sue Anstiss (32:40):
And for the last few Games.
I mean you alluded to thatearlier, but you faced this
enormous additional challenges.
So in Rio, paralympics almostdidn't take place when the city
went bankrupt.
You then had extreme heat andhumidity to contend with in
Tokyo and all the challengesaround COVID in Beijing.
So how do you personally copewith the tremendous pressure
that comes in that position?
Penny Briscoe (33:03):
I just love the game.
I can't think of a betterenvironment to be in and I think
if you've got that mindset,that is just it's a great
starting point.
I just reflect often onVancouver 2010 and it was
pre-athletes arriving in villageand I just noticed myself that
(33:24):
sort of I guess proprioceptionthat I was kind of walking with
a bounce in my stride, which I'mnot sure is my normal, my, I
don't think I normally have thatswagger.
But you know, when I get intoenvironment, I just I sort of
like shoulders back, chin up,big smile.
This is it, this is this is theopportunity and embrace that
opportunity.
And you know, we all havemechanisms to cope when we're,
(33:48):
when we're under pressure.
Mine is I like to exercise.
I think I'm also reallyfortunate in terms I've worked
with some incredible team.
My current chef de mission teamis hugely experienced some
incredible teams.
My current chef de mission teamis hugely experienced.
We've got a senior leadershipteam that is passionate,
dedicated, hardworking.
We've got great experience ofissue and incident management
(34:09):
through Sochi, rio, pyeongchang,tokyo, beijing.
You know we've had a run ofreally challenging games, but I
think we've grown as individualsand and we've grown as a team
in terms of how we've managedthose environments and Rio, as
you said.
You know, I ended up going intoRio early, not knowing with
(34:32):
Barry Canela, our director ofoperations, not really knowing
what we were going to find.
And it was challenging and youknow, you set yourself simple
tasks and being handed thebuilding over from Team GB and
the cleaners had been suspendedbecause there was widespread
theft, and it was like OK, thefirst thing is let's make this
building shine.
(34:53):
So we started with a chef teamapartment and then, as people
came in, we just we sort ofexpanded that ambition and you
know, get the science andmedicine areas up and running,
let's bring in some new cleaners, let's get the apartment sorted
.
And when the athletes arrived,I had a lot of athletes
contacting me and saying youknow, penny, is it going to be
OK?
And it's going to be OK, guys,it's going to be OK, just get
(35:17):
yourselves over here.
And they arrived and it waslike, oh what?
What's the issue?
This looks amazing.
And obviously you know therewere challenges throughout the
games, but we took control ofwhat we could control and we
created that home from home,that environment where, where
the athletes came in, looksamazing.
Let's crack on business asusual in terms of them
delivering those performances.
(35:38):
But and then they were hearingstories from other nations that
were having a terrible time andyou know, certainly from my
perspective, you know, I thinkwe endeared ourselves to the
organizing committee and that wetried to support them.
We weren't going to the pressbad now, then we just tried to
do what we could do becauseultimately, it's about creating
that environment for theathletes who've been working so
(36:00):
hard and the last thing theywant to hear from us is us
moaning.
They want us to hear positivityand it's going to be okay and
and it was okay and it was anincredible games and you know,
similarly, going into Tokyo,games that might not have
happened because of Covid and itwas the most challenging
environment that I've beeninvolved in and you know it's a
(36:20):
massive thanks to colleagues atTeam GB as well in terms of how
collaborative they were in termsof sharing experiences.
So we had some insights of whatwe might be facing.
But again, it kind of felt likewe talked earlier on about
what's special about the, thepara sport movements, and
athletes arrived and again,didn't bemoan the situation.
(36:43):
They were just grateful thatthey had an opportunity to
compete and they'd worked sohard under, you know, really
challenging prep conditions athome and very little competition
.
And you know we had stories ofRyan's shooting shed, of one of
the shooters setting up ashooting area through his house
into a shed in his garden.
You know we had stories ofRyan's shooting shed, of one of
the shooters setting up ashooting area through his house
into a shed in his garden.
You know there was all sorts ofincredible stuff going on, but
(37:05):
seeing the athletes' smilingfaces getting off the bus coming
into the village brought a tearto my eye and it really was.
It kind of felt like a siegementality at times but we came
together as the most cohesiveteam and I think one of my
concerns going into Tokyo isthat we wouldn't get kind of
positive reflections on thegames or the team experience and
(37:29):
it was actually quite thecontrary in terms of multi-games
athletes saying it was actuallymy best games, the best
experience and and I think itwas that siege mentality of us
being in it together and broughtus together as as a team and
the camaraderie and the support.
It was just unbelievable and Ithink it's testimony to the
(37:52):
mindset of our athletes and andtheir support teams and and and
the Paralympics GB support teamas well.
Sue Anstiss (37:59):
And how did the delay to Tokyo and then having
just three years between thegames impact your role?
I feel you've been very hard toget hold of, so I know you're
really busy, but has it made amassive difference having 25%
less time almost to prep forParis?
Penny Briscoe (38:14):
Yeah, I mean Tokyo, as I say, was brutal
because we just planned andreplanned and planned and
replanned and ripped up plansand you know everything was
happening really last minute andit meant that you know we were
trying to focus as well onBeijing, which we knew was going
to be just six months after,and and where we ended up was
splitting the chef de missionrole between summer and winter
(38:35):
games.
So I was focusing on on Tokyowell, we're all focusing on
Tokyo, to be honest but we'dappointed Phil Smith as first
time chef de mission for Beijing.
So when we got home from Tokyo,I led all the post Tokyo
debriefs whilst Phil and histeam just went full steam ahead
with that six month window andagain facing the same challenges
(38:58):
that we had in in Tokyo waslate information, planning, repl
, replanning, COVID challenges,COVID, countermeasures.
That I think the approach paidoff.
Phil and his team did anincredible job in Beijing and in
that sort of six months I wasfocusing more on Paris and
getting the sort of the planthat was there it had been there
(39:19):
, you know, 18 months sort ofresurrecting that plan and
trying to fast track it.
So you just feel at times we'vebeen playing catch up going
into Paris.
But you know, again, I thinkwe're confident.
You know we're confident thatwe've dealt with such
challenging games that it mightnot be our optimal delivery
timeframe, but actually we know,we kind of know what we're
(39:41):
doing and what to expect.
We're all looking forward to anon-COVID Games, keeping
everything crossed.
We're looking forward to aGames that's just across the
water we're looking forward to.
I think it will be aspectacular Games.
You know, I think the ParisOrganising Committee will do an
amazing, amazing job and I thinkjust again, yeah, just being
(40:01):
positive that it's our nextopportunity to showcase
brilliant para sport to globalaudiences.
And, yeah, we're all workinghard.
It's probably one of our mostcomplex master plans because
we've got so many sports thatare actually preparing in the UK
.
We've got a handful of sportsthat are preparing in and around
(40:22):
Paris.
We've got lots of differentaccommodations in and around
Paris, We've got a huge guestand commercial program and
friends and family.
So it's going to be really,really exciting and you know,
we're just under now 500 days togo and it really does feel like
it's hotting up Lots and lotsof qualification events coming
up for the sport.
(40:42):
So, yeah, it sort of feels likeit's getting to the pointy end
of the cycle and that we missedquite a bit of the front end of
the cycle, but we're gettingthere.
Sue Anstiss (40:54):
Super exciting.
You've obviously had such along career at the same
organisation, but it's anorganisation that's changed
significantly over time too.
I was going to ask you ifyou've considered other roles,
but when I hear your passion andenthusiasm I can kind of see
why not.
But have you thought aboutother sports, other roles, in
your time there?
Penny Briscoe (41:12):
Yeah, I had a bit of a sticky patch just in terms
of how I was feeling about myrole, sort of Beijing time, but
the sort of the lure of LondonLondon really, I guess kept me
going and and then, with TimHollingsworth coming in in 2011,
we just created a sort ofrelationship CEO, director of
(41:34):
sport, chef, submissionrelationship.
That was incredible, you know,really complementary skill set.
I was disappointed not to getthe chef gig going into our home
games in 12.
But sort of Tim explained to methat it was really important
that I work closely with him toget the new strategy online.
And you know, craig Hunter camein as chef de mission and I had
(41:54):
a bit of a wobble at that point.
And again, it was another oneof those moments where I sort of
sat down and had a sterntalking to myself.
If I walked away at that stage,what would it say about me and
my values?
What would it say about me andeverything that I'd committed to
para-sport over that firstdecade and that you know, I was
as passionate to support theathletes going into London as I
(42:18):
ever was and I just had to putmy personal ambition sort of
slightly on the side burner andhope that I would get an
opportunity based on continuedgood performance, and I did.
And it's relationships like theone that I had with Tim that
really helped reignite yourpassion.
Sometimes and, as I said, everygame is different, every team is
(42:40):
different London was a catalystto being in some ways feeling
like I was in a differentmovement post london than that
than I had been, and it justfelt it was, you know, an
opportunity to stay and just tosee where we would, we would go
in.
It was just so good to see theathletes being recognized.
It was so good you strictlycome down the thing to question
(43:01):
of sport, to the bake-off, youname it.
Parathletes were there.
You know, pre-london probablyTanny Gray and Addy were the two
athletes that sort of thegeneral public knew about.
But every community now hasembraced parasport, has their
own parasport heroes and youknow it's quite right that we're
seeing the guys get therecognition that they deserve.
(43:23):
So yeah, I'd say, if a game'stoo hard, then my career at the
BPA has been the sort of thepre-London and then the
post-London, and us as anorganisation we're far more
ambitious, having had theopportunity of the home games to
really sort of strike out interms of our strategy and not
just the sort of championingchange in terms of the sort of
(43:44):
strike out in terms of ourstrategy and not just the sort
of championing change in termsof the sort of the advocacy.
We've got a para-sport platformwhich is now rebranded as
Everybody Moves.
It's a community platformdesigned to engage, get
connections, provideopportunities, and you know, we
know, that disabled people weredisproportionately impacted by
COVID.
We know the similardisproportionality, we know that
(44:04):
disabled people weredisproportionately impacted by
COVID.
We know the similardisproportionality of the cost
of living crisis.
And I think we're, you knowwe're ambitious to play a role
in terms of creating opportunity, creating a difference,
championing change, just kind ofwhat it says on the tin, really
.
So it's an exciting time and Ithink if you get up in the
(44:26):
morning and you feel passionateand you can smile about the day,
you've got ahead, why would youseek something else if you
don't believe it?
It would be better.
Sue Anstiss (44:35):
Brilliant, brilliant.
And lastly, I was reallyexcited to learn that your
daughter, lizzie, is a potentialworld-class athlete too.
So can you tell me about her,her ambitions, and I guess, what
it feels like on the other sideof being a parent of an athlete
at that level too?
Penny Briscoe (44:52):
I empathize and sympathize with every sporting
parent, especially with verydetermined um young athletes.
It's a one wonder to get myselfinto hot water.
Lizzie hates me talking abouther and sport.
So Lizzie is part of theBritish Triathlon Programme.
Just like her mum, she's anout-and-out sports nut.
(45:13):
Her brother was equally asporty but is moving on to other
university endeavours.
But Lizzie's been, I think,really fortunate in terms of.
She's a talented athlete.
She played for Derby FootballAcademy, girls Academy, great
runner, before finding triathlon, which was through school, a
very, very committed teacher whois now a family friend.
(45:36):
So thank you, helen Dusick,thank you For Life Tri Club and
here in Not in knots, greatsupport, a great volunteer base
and then moving through to sortof you know, the the regional
academy onto the england nextgeneration squads, getting
selected for gbu gb junior andlast year getting her first
(45:58):
international medals as anindividual and also a mixed team
relay bronze in the EuropeanChampionship.
So you know it is thanks to theBritish Triathlon Pathway,
which does support youngathletes really well, and she's
at Leeds University now, whichis obviously one of the key
centres for British fly.
She's got a new coach in NOMStanford which she's hugely
(46:20):
excited by and I think she'sjust a really pragmatic young
athlete in terms of she wants tocontinue to get better in each
of the disciplines.
She knows how important that is.
She's a really honest,hard-working athlete and I think
she just wants to be able torepresent Great Britain at every
level.
And she's got a challengingyear, first year uni.
She's in stepped up into theunder 23 age category, so
(46:45):
hopefully it's just a year ofconsolidation and um and then
looking at to where that mightgo in terms of future gb
selection.
So I just wanted to be happyand healthy and and to love a
sport and um.
You know I've I I love sport.
You know I've loved sport allmy life and know I know the
opportunities that it can giveyou, not just in terms of being
(47:06):
an elite athlete, but the lifeskills that being in the
sporting environment I guessenables you with.
So yeah, we'll see.
Sue Anstiss (47:20):
I really enjoyed talking to Penny.
If you'd like to hear more fromother senior women leading
bushish sport, head over tofearlesswomencouk, where you'll
find other episodes where Ispeak to the likes of Sally
Mundy, liz Nicol, katherineGranger, sue Day and Claire
Connor, as well as listening toall the podcasts.
(47:43):
On the website, you can alsofind out more about the Women's
Sport Collective, a free,inclusive community for all
women working in sport.
You can sign up for theFearless Women newsletter, which
highlights the developments inglobal women's sport, and
there's more about my book gameon the unstoppable rise of
(48:04):
women's sport.
Thank you again to sport englandfor backing the game changes
through a national lottery award, and to sam walker at what goes
on media, who does such a greatjob as our executive producer.
Thank you also to my colleagueat fearless women, kate hannon.
(48:28):
The game changes is free tolisten to and you can find it on
all podcast platforms.
Do follow us or subscribe tomake sure you don't miss out on
future episodes, and if you havea moment to leave a review or a
rating, it'd be muchappreciated, as it really helps
us to reach new audiences.
Do come and say hello on socialmedia, where you'll find me on
(48:51):
instagram, linkedin and twitterat sue anstis.
The game changes fearless womenin sport.
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