November 24, 2025 • 31 mins
Ramla Ali: Fighting for Change
“I carried the hopes of a nation into the ring - but also the dreams of every young girl who’d been told no.”
Boxer, Olympian, model and UNICEF UK ambassador Ramla Ali shares her extraordinary journey from fleeing conflict in Somalia to making history in the boxing ring. The first Somali, male or female, to compete for a world title, Ramla’s story is one of resilience, representation and the relentless pursuit of change.
In this conversation with Sue Anstiss, Ramla reflects on a recent visit to the Dadaab refugee camp in Kenya where she witnessed both the devastating impact of aid cuts and the extraordinary hope of young women determined to build a better future. She speaks openly about her own family’s escape from Somalia, the courage of her parents and the sacrifices that shaped her life in the UK.
Ramla reveals how she discovered boxing almost by accident, keeping her training secret from her family until they came to embrace her achievements with pride. She discusses what it meant to walk into the Olympic arena carrying Somalia’s flag and the trail she’s blazed for others to follow. Ramla talks proudly of the power of Sisters Club, the organisation she founded to give women and girls safe access to sport.
From walking into a Boxercise class as a teenager to being the subject of an upcoming Hollywood film, Ramla has consistently challenged stereotypes and redefined what’s possible. Whether in the ring, in fashion, or in refugee camps, Ramla uses her platform to inspire change and to call for dignity, opportunity and equality for all.
This is the story of a fighter whose greatest victories extend far beyond sport.
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Ramla Ali is a UNICEF UK Ambassador. Join UNICEF UK and write to your MP today to prioritise children in the UK aid budget here.
Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.
Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media
A Fearless Women production
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ramla Ali (00:02):
When I posted that I was going to the Tokyo Olympics,
like so many people messaged meto say, like, because of me,
they've encouraged their kids toget into sport, and I think
ultimately that's what I wanted.
I wanted young children todream big and to realise like
they have so much potential andto sort of allow them the
(00:26):
opportunity to think that theycan do and be and achieve
anything that they want to inlife.
And when I received thosemessages, I felt I felt like I
did my job right.
Sue Anstiss (00:40):
Today's guest on The Game Changers is Ramla Ali,
a British Somali boxer,Olympian, model, and UNICEF UK
ambassador.
From fleeing conflict inSomalia as a child to secretly
learning boxing in East London,Ramla went on to become the
first Somali, male or female, tocompete for a world title.
Ramla is an icon in hercommunity and for millions of
(01:03):
young women, many of whom'slives have been touched by her
organization, the Sisters Club,which supports thousands of
women annually with free sportsand fitness activities for
mental health and self-defence.
Ramla uses her global platformnot just to break barriers in
sport but to fight for women,girls and refugee children
everywhere.
A new Hollywood film aboutRamla's extraordinary life In
(01:27):
The Shadows will be releasednext year.
So Ramla, you've just returnedfrom visiting the Dadab refugee
camp in Kenya.
Can you describe a little ofwhat that experience was like
for you personally?
Ramla Ali (01:43):
This trip was like years in the making.
And just being there and justseeing all these incredible
people, I saw so much of myselfin each and every person.
And it was a truly likehumbling experience.
And it it just like made youvalue my life personally so much
(02:05):
more.
And it's, you know, made me sothankful to have the parents
that I had who'd sacrificed somuch to take us away from such a
conflict zone that was Somalia,bring us to safety here in
London and the UK.
And just the whole experienceis just, yeah, just to repeat
(02:27):
again, just truly humbling.
And um, yeah, I was just sohonored to just be amongst all
those incredible people that Imet in Dadab.
Sue Anstiss (02:36):
And other specific moments that will stick with you
long term and carry forever.
I look on social media, you cansee the amazing, you know,
photos and and videos of you andthe work you're doing and the
people you're meeting.
But are there particularmoments you think that will
really stick with you?
Ramla Ali (02:51):
In general, just to see how enthusiastic and so full
of life everyone was, you know,from the outside looking in,
like before I went, I didn'tthink that I would get to see
that.
I I had my own perceptions ofwhat everyone would be like in
(03:11):
the camp, and it was completelydifferent.
Everyone was just so happy tobe alive and just happy to be
there and just so full of life,and everybody had a dream and
everybody had a goal, and thatwas truly just amazing to
witness.
And I think one particularstory that really, really hit me
(03:32):
was a young girl that I'd met,and it was in a program that is
run by UNICEF called uh YoungMothers Program, I believe.
So it's like young girls whothrough either forced child
marriages, rape, had had kids uhfrom a young age, and this one
(03:53):
particular girl was raped at theage of 14 and had a child.
And I had the opportunity tosit down and talk with her, and
she was telling me, you know,when she was a child, she had
these hopes and dreams andaspirations of becoming a model,
like a supermodel, becauseSouth Sudanese women are just
(04:16):
stunning, they're like six footwhatever, legs up to here, and
you know, she had this dream ofbecoming a supermodel, and she
said when she had given birth,those dreams had gone out the
window because she felt gettingpregnant and having the child
had ruined her body.
And so as a result, she had anew dream of, you know, she now
(04:39):
wanted to become a doctor tohelp young girls who are in
similar positions to herself,and you know, she had like a
like a plan like I'm gonna go toboarding school and I'm gonna
leave my daughter with mymother, and you know, this is
what I'm gonna do for myself andfor my family.
And just to see that hope inher face and just how full of
(05:03):
life she was is just what I wastalking about at the beginning.
It's just yeah, it's just itwas just so incredible to see,
witness, and to hear.
Sue Anstiss (05:12):
Yeah, and that importance of hope, isn't it?
What what role do you feel thatUNICEF is playing on the ground
to support those children andyoung people?
I mean, they UNICEF is justtruly incredible because they
have so many amazing programswithin these camps.
As a result of this youngmothers program, the girls are
(05:33):
they're given, they're taughtskills, so they're able to then
use their skills to startbusinesses.
These young girls, 10 of themtogether through learning how to
do hair, do makeup, do nails,give facials, like started a
salon within the dab, and that'swhat they're using to, you
(05:54):
know, look after themselves andlook after their families, and
they say they get a greatincome.
And there's this amazingsisterhood between all of them,
because you know, I asked one ofthem, what would happen if
hypothetically you made moremoney than the other nine girls?
And she said, Well, no, we'rewe're we're a team, we're a
family.
(06:15):
What I make at the end of theday, I make sure we share
between the ten of us because ifI eat, everyone gets to eat,
and it's not fair if I'm theonly person that eats, and that
really like just hit me, andjust it kind of reminded me of
the message of my own charitySisters Club in that all the
(06:36):
women within the Sisters Clubcommunity are sisters, and yeah,
it was incredible to hear that.
Very powerful one.
You mentioned then the braveryof your parents.
So can you tell us a little bitmore of your story and how you
ended up as a refugee and comingto the UK?
Yeah, uh, I was born during theCivil War of Somalia.
(06:57):
My brother died as a result ofa sh um being struck by a stray
grenade, and my parents made theuh incredible decision of you
know taking us from danger, andmy mum didn't want what had
happened to her eldest to happento the rest of us.
(07:19):
So we fled Somalia, we um wehid in a truck basically off the
coast of Somalia, Kismayo, wehid in a cave for a bit and
waited for a boat.
People were like scrambling toget on because everybody was
(07:40):
fleeing uh danger.
So we um got from Kismayo to uhMombasa, where we had some
relatives who were there, and ummy mum was telling me how you
know when we were in Mombasa,she'd queue up for aid.
It's so important to have that.
(08:00):
And so she was queuing up andyou know, making sure like you
know, we had food in our belliesand you know, we had a warm
place to stay.
And uh yeah, so from Kenya wewe sought asylum in the UK as
war refugees.
And as a result, we all my muminstilled in us the uh
(08:23):
importance of education, and meand all my siblings got degrees,
and we were literally fleeingwar.
We were literally fleeing, youknow, the dangers of war, like
my brother was killed, and likewe'd left everything behind.
I don't have a single, well, mymum doesn't have a single
(08:44):
picture of us in Somalia, andit's yeah, she finds it quite
hard because all the memoriesare there.
I just came back from a tripactually uh from in Somalia.
Uh I stayed there 10 days,posted that refugee camp, and I
got to see the house that I wasborn in.
And it's like it changed somuch, it's all like boarded up.
(09:08):
And yeah, it's it was it was itwas it was great to see.
But you're right, people don't leave, people don't
leave their homes and travelacross the world without the
yeah, without the rationale todo so.
You don't just up and leave.
UNICEF has warned that alongwith dying from preventable
diseases, millions more childrencould be out of school by 2026
(09:32):
because of the recent aid cuts,and the UK government took the
decision to cut the aid budgetby 40% by 2027.
So, from your visit andexperiences and your work with
UNICEF UK, what difference doyou think that funding, the aid
funding or the lack of aidfunding will be making to
children's lives?
Ramla Ali (09:50):
Like huge.
Um so the day that I was in theuh I got to meet the young
mothers, one of the youngmothers had collapsed, and that
was a result of severedehydration.
So, you know, aid is currentlybeing cut, yes, and more of it
(10:11):
will be cut by 2027, I believe.
But um the water allowance perperson per householder has been
cut by half.
And she was there, we were justtalking, and she just collapsed
because Kenya's extremely hot,and I'm sure they should be
(10:34):
drinking double why I'm drinkinghere in cold London, but
they're not because of the aidcuts.
And it's horrible to think thepeople that will be affected the
most with these cuts are youngchildren, they don't deserve it,
they've done nothing wrong.
Yeah, and that's yeah, justhorrible to think about.
But it wasn't even just the onegirl.
(10:55):
I was in Dadab for two, twofull days, and within two full
days, three young girls hadcollapsed from severe
dehydration.
Sue Anstiss (11:06):
And what would you want listeners to take away in
terms of taking action?
What can we do from here, bothto learn more about it, but also
in terms of encouraging thegovernment or MPs to support
more?
Ramla Ali (11:20):
Exactly.
Write to your local MPs and youknow, urge them to reconsider
what they're doing.
It's so heartbreaking to justsomething that's that should be
like a basic human right thatthey're not even being afforded
that opportunity.
It's heartbreaking.
(11:40):
But yeah, just write to yourlocal MPs and urge them to
reconsider these decisions.
Sue Anstiss (11:45):
And I'll share some links in the show notes as well
to show the direction andactions people can take too.
Um and what role do you thinksport can play in giving hope
and opportunities to refugeechildren?
Ramla Ali (11:58):
So when I was in the camp, I was fortunate enough to
go and see one of, I believeit's a UNICEF, so UNICEF support
this program called FilmAid,and it's getting uh young
refugee children, kids uh intofilm and TV and giving them the
(12:19):
basic skills to learn how to dophotography, videography,
directing, producing, all ofthat.
Um I watched this film thatthey'd made on the impact of
climate change on them, and itwas, you know, showing that
football, how it's it'saffecting them together with the
(12:40):
aid cuts.
So a lot of the, you know, thekids were collapsing when they
were playing football becausethey couldn't drink enough
water, and the the, you know,sometimes it would they would
have severe rain and theirpitches would get flooded and so
they can no longer play.
But, you know, having somethinglike sport to just take your
(13:03):
mind off everything, I feel likeis so important to young kids.
It teaches them a lot abouthealth, looking after
themselves, and it's doing so ina fun way.
Sue Anstiss (13:15):
And I think it's it you talk about human rights and
actually the the right to justplay as a child and have joy and
all that we know sport bringsin terms of community and
belonging and all those things.
That's so, so important, isn'tit?
Brotherhood, sisterhood, youlose all of that.
And obviously, sports played areally key part in your role
too, and and your the work thatyou're doing.
(13:36):
But you when you arrived in theUK as a refugee, you found
boxing.
So I mean, it almost feelsbizarre to to say that and to
think that.
But how did that happen?
How did that come about?
Uh honestly, I I I wish I couldgive like this, like, oh yeah,
so my dad used to box.
And so I walked no, it honestlyit wasn't that.
I was just, I used to getbullied in school for being
(14:00):
overweight, and one day mysister took me to the gym, and I
remember, so you know, backthen we didn't have Instagram
and you know, or TikTok, and youcouldn't see like workouts to
do.
And I remember feeling so outof place and so uncomfortable in
this gym that was just full ofmen.
(14:22):
Um, so I just started walkingaround the gym and I noticed a
boxer size class, and I walkedin and I fell in love with it.
And from that, I had researchedlocal boxing gyms in the area,
and it the rest is history, butit it literally could have been
any sport.
It wasn't like I have to learnboxing, like I could have walked
(14:46):
into a taekwondo class and Iwould have been a taekwondo
athlete.
So it was just the first sportthat you know I found and I just
fell in love with it.
And what was it about boxing that you so loved,
especially as you say, it's sucha male-dominated sport too?
Such a male-dominated sport.
But I think back then the thingthat I loved the most is like I
(15:07):
said, I felt I didn't know whatI was doing in the in in a
normal gym because we didn'thave these apps, and I liked the
idea of someone telling me whatto do and I didn't have to
think for myself.
And at the same time, you know,I was getting healthy and I was
looking after myself, andsimilar to what you were saying
about sport in that you createthis, you create friendships and
(15:31):
you create bonds with otherpeople, and it wasn't something
that I really had in schoolbecause I was getting bullied,
so I found this like communityof friends within the boxing
gym, and it yeah, it's yeah,yeah.
And your family didn't know, wedidn't let your family know
about it, didn't really approveat the beginning.
So, what was the turning pointin that relationship with your
(15:54):
parents when they shifted andthen almost realized it was
something that they could bereally proud of?
I love there's a story youshared recently on on Instagram
about your mum opposed where yousaid your mum now asks you
about training and if you'redieting before uh a competition
so she can feed you and and cookfor you.
Ramla Ali (16:11):
Somalie food is the best, it's amazing, but it's not
the healthiest, unfortunately.
Um, I think the turning pointfor my mum was when I told her
that I wanted to compete forSomalia, and also like I have
this incredible uncle who islike super team Rambler, and
it's my mum's old older brother,and you know, he sort of told
(16:34):
her the positive impact that Iwould be having amongst young
Somali uh children andencouraging them to get
healthier themselves, like ifthey could see me on the big
stage, it would encourage themto like get fit, get healthy,
because you know, we have a lotof diabetes and high blood
pressures and things like thatwithin the Somali community, and
(16:57):
uh he was just telling my mumlike what a positive thing it
is, what I'm doing.
And I think that's when shecame around, and now, yeah,
she's like my biggest fan, andshe asks me, Can I feed you?
Can you eat cake?
And uh, you know, thinkingabout that and thinking about
that many years ago, I I wouldhave never have envis envisaged
(17:20):
me and my mum having these typesof conversations in the future.
Sue Anstiss (17:23):
And did you imagine in those early days of
discovering boxing that it mighttake you to the Olympics, to a
world title fight?
What how how far in were you interms of training and loving
the sport when that came acrossyour radar?
Or you realised it wassomething you could do?
I never realized that I couldmake boxing into a career.
I mean, even now it's notreally a career, let's be
(17:44):
honest.
Women don't get paid nearlyenough as men.
But I think it was when I metmy husband and he told me, look,
you can do this, is when Itruly started to started to
believe in myself.
I I feel like I just needed tohear it from someone, and you
know, it was never gonna be myparents, let's be honest.
(18:05):
And it was kind of him as wellthat brought my mum around, but
yeah, it was it was probably thebelief that he had in me that
made me feel that made mebelieve in myself.
And you went on to become the first Somali, male or
female, to compete for a worldtitle in boxing.
So what did that milestone thenmean for you, your family, your
(18:26):
your mum's brother, your uncle,a super Ramla fan?
Ramla Ali (18:30):
I think I think the biggest milestone before that
was qualifying and going to theTokyo Olympics because no
athlete outside of run likeliterally just running uh has
for Somalia has ever done anyother sports or can be.
Wow, yeah, nothing.
Um, so it was like something sodifferent, and now we have all
(18:54):
these because well, I don't wantto say because of me, I'm sure
they were doing it themselves,but like I want to take a little
bit of credit, but because ofme, let's say, you know, we now
have Taekwondo athletes.
We have there's a guy thatcontacted me the other day who's
a swimmer and he wants to do itfor Somalia, and it is it's so
incredible incredible to thinkthat I've paved the way for all
(19:17):
these amazing athletes to likeemerge from the country or want
to represent Somalia.
And um when, you know, when Iposted that I was going to the
Tokyo Olympics, the amount ofmessages that I'd received, and
even when I was like holding theflag at the opening ceremony,
like so many people messaged meto say like what an inspiration
(19:40):
I am, and that, you know,because of me, they're they've
encouraged their kids to getinto sport, and I think
ultimately that's what I wanted.
I wanted young children todream big and to realise like
they have so much potential andto sort of allow them the
(20:01):
opportunity to think that theycan do and be and achieve
anything that they want to inlife.
And when I received thosemessages, I felt I felt like my
I did my job right.
Sue Anstiss (20:11):
Absolutely.
And you've also modelled forsome of the biggest fashion
houses.
So how do you balance thatworld of high-end fashion with
the sort of grit and thebrutality of boxing?
They seem like they're quitecontradictory,
Ramla Ali (20:24):
They're very contradictory.
But you know what?
I always say, if you you whenyou book me, you know what
you're getting.
I'm a boxer, right?
So you know I might turn upwith a black eye, or it could
happen.
Like that comes with theterritory.
And I've been fortunate enough,and I've worked with so many
(20:45):
brands that have just neverminded me turning up with a
black eye, or stitches, or notbeing able to do exactly what
they wanted in a campaignbecause I've got a shoulder
injury, or I've got this andthat, and uh yeah, I've just
been so lucky uh to have workedwith all these like incredible
(21:05):
brands that have been soaccommodating to me as a boxer.
Sue Anstiss (21:10):
Yeah, you as you say, you as the whole person,
isn't it?
You've you've also been on thefront cover of Vogue, Mary
Claire, you were selected asTime Woman of the Year.
So, what do those accoladesmean to you in comparison to you
know the Olympic Games andthose sporting accolades?
Do they feel different?
Ramla Ali (21:26):
I mean, they feel like super different, but then
it all like meshes into one.
I feel like, you know, I'm onthe cover of British Vogue
because I've achieved all thesethings and I'm Time Woman of the
Year because I'm doing so muchfor Sisters Club, or I've I've
I've done this and I've donethat, and it's it's two very
different worlds, but I feellike they're merging together
(21:48):
like perfectly, and I'm just soblessed to be a part of both
worlds because the people that Imeet in one, I wouldn't
necessarily meet the other inthat in that world, and it's so
nice that I can, you know, meetall these incredible people, and
yeah, I'm I'm I'm trulyhonoured to be a part of both.
Sue Anstiss (22:10):
And you mentioned then the Sisters Club and being
recognized for all you'vecreated, they're incredible
initiatives.
So can you tell us that thatmight not know much about it,
but a little more about it andthe impact it's having on the
women that are involved?
Ramla Ali (22:23):
Yeah.
Uh I Sisters Club was birthedin 2018 and it started off as me
volunteering an hour of my timea week to teach women how to
box.
Bearing in mind at this pointin my life, I was working three
jobs to fund my boxing careerbecause, you know, as I
(22:46):
mentioned, women don't get paidenough.
And so I decided I wanted toteach women to box.
And, you know, the type ofwomen that I was targeting were
like women that found it reallyhard to gain access to sports.
So, like the religiousminorities, the ethnic
minorities, and the women thatcame from low-income families,
(23:08):
and over time as well, a lot ofwomen that had suffered from
domestic violence were likegravitating towards the class.
And what initially turned intolike a six-month passion project
has grown uh incredibly overthe years.
So now we have four boxingclasses a week in London and one
(23:29):
in New York.
We have a run club, we have abasketball club, and we have a
football club, and then we alsohave a run club in Florida as
well.
And it's just growing and it'sallowing like these vulnerable
groups of women to feelempowered to create bonds of
sisterhood with other clubmembers.
(23:50):
And one actually success story,not success, but a story to
celebrate or yeah.
Story to celebrate is uh one ofthe girls who was getting
beaten up so badly by herhusband who found the courage to
leave him and now coaches forSisters Club.
(24:12):
Oh wow.
One of the best stories to havecome from Sisters Club.
So the the the mission that Ihad in the beginning, uh hearing
that just made made me so gladthat I started it in the first
place.
Sue Anstiss (24:27):
Yeah, so proud.
That's like the full fullcircle there, isn't it?
Uh giving back, yeah, yeah.
And as well as being a boxerand a model and the UNICEF UK
ambassador, you're now going tobe the subject of a Hollywood
film to be released next year.
So in the shadows.
Yeah.
I just wonder how you feel.
What does it feel like to knowyour life is going to be
portrayed on the big screen?
Ramla Ali (24:47):
I remember when we first started filming last year,
the production designer came upto me and said, So how does it
feel like you're you're stillyoung and you're still an active
athlete and yet a film is beingmade about you?
Whereas people are towards theend of their careers or like
they're, you know, 60, 70 andthey're not having anything made
(25:10):
about them.
How do you feel?
And I said, you know what?
It's incredible because yes,it's a sports story about me and
boxing, but more than anything,it's a positive migrant story,
and and it's also like apositive interracial love story
as well between myself and myhusband.
And yeah, I can't, I I justcan't believe like a some people
(25:35):
want to wanted to have made afilm about me, and like people
are gonna want to watch it.
It's it's like ah it's sobizarre, but um, but yeah,
again, truly humbling and I'm sohonoured.
Sue Anstiss (25:50):
You're clearly someone who's challenged
stereotypes.
So what what do you hope theyour activity will enable young
girls and refugees everywhere toknow about the potential for
them to follow their own path?
Because that really feels as ifthat's the kind of message
you're giving.
Ramla Ali (26:06):
Yes.
There was actually a group ofyoung girls that I met in the
dab.
Uh, we sat down and we weretalking about how just I just
wanted to get to know thembasically.
And one of the girls asked me,How did you sort of change
people's perceptions of, youknow, uh a Somali girl getting
into boxing because I personallywant to be a psychologist and
(26:31):
I'm being told that I shouldn'tbe going to school because I
should be learning to stay athome and cook and be a
housewife, but that's not what Iwant to do, and just her asking
me that has already allowed mystory to change the minds of
other people, and it's you know,because of me, she's she's
wanting to be a psychologist,and uh my story is is showing
(26:55):
her that she can do and she canbe anything that she wants to
be, and it's yeah, it's justquite nice to to know about.
Sue Anstiss (27:02):
And what's next for you now?
So in sport, again when you'vegot another fight coming up on
fashion and your humanitarianwork, you know, in each of those
areas, what's what's coming up?
Ramla Ali (27:12):
So the only thing that I know is coming up is that
our next beacon beating inDecember, fingers crossed, or
God willing, I always say thatbecause my mum has always taught
me to say that because of mybrother passing away when we
were in Somalia.
Life is never certain, andthat's why I don't like like to
plan things too far ahead.
(27:33):
So I'm just gonna starttraining for that.
What's it called?
Sue Anstiss (27:37):
You say a beacon, the name of the event you're
preparing for?
Ramla Ali (27:40):
Just uh it would just be a fight in December.
Okay, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
And yeah, I just don't like toplan too far ahead.
For that, I'm I'm gonna starttraining uh soon and just to get
ready for that.
But that's the only thing Ihave planned coming up.
Everything else is just as andwhen it comes, basically.
Sue Anstiss (27:59):
I like that approach to life.
Leave the space, create thevacuum, and who knows what will
come into it.
Ramla Ali (28:05):
Exactly.
Um, I love to livespontaneously as well.
A friend of mine just messagedme, she said, Hey, do you want
to come to Turkey?
And I was this close to sayingyeah.
But then I was just, I waslike, Oh, honestly, I'm so
tired.
I travelled so much last week,just that I just want to just
rest for a bit.
But yeah, I just I just love tolive in the moment.
(28:25):
I've actually deleted all mysocial media uh since January of
2024 because I just want tolive in the moment.
I don't want to be uh tired tomy phone uh and scrolling away
and just wasting life away.
I just want to be in thepresent and be surrounded by
(28:45):
people that I love and justyeah.
Sue Anstiss (28:48):
That's such a powerful thing to do, isn't it?
And such a powerful message aswell to be to live for the now
and the moment.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
For sure.
And and just finally, if youcould deliver one message to
governments and people ingeneral about children and
adults in refugee camps, whatwhat would you say?
What would be your kind ofclosing message there?
Ramla Ali (29:09):
I think the closing message is that everyone is a
human being, so treat everyoneas a human being.
Yeah, short and sweet.
There you go.
Sue Anstiss (29:22):
I think we might all be joining Super Team Ramla
after that interview.
If you'd like to hear fromother Trailblazers in sport,
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Guests include elite athletesalong with coaches,
(29:43):
broadcasters, scientists,journalists and CEOs, all women
who are changing the game insport.
As well as listening to all theepisodes on the website, you
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We now have over 14,000 membersacross the world, so please do
(30:05):
come and join us.
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(30:27):
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The Game Changers.
When I posted that I was going to the Tokyo Olympics,
like so many people messaged meto say, like, because of me,
they've encouraged their kids toget into sport, and I think
ultimately that's what I wanted.
I wanted young children todream big and to realise like
they have so much potential andto sort of allow them the
(00:26):
opportunity to think that theycan do and be and achieve
anything that they want to inlife.
And when I received thosemessages, I felt I felt like I
did my job right.
Sue Anstiss (00:40):
Today's guest on The Game Changers is Ramla Ali,
a British Somali boxer,Olympian, model, and UNICEF UK
ambassador.
From fleeing conflict inSomalia as a child to secretly
learning boxing in East London,Ramla went on to become the
first Somali, male or female, tocompete for a world title.
Ramla is an icon in hercommunity and for millions of
(01:03):
young women, many of whom'slives have been touched by her
organization, the Sisters Club,which supports thousands of
women annually with free sportsand fitness activities for
mental health and self-defence.
Ramla uses her global platformnot just to break barriers in
sport but to fight for women,girls and refugee children
everywhere.
A new Hollywood film aboutRamla's extraordinary life In
(01:27):
The Shadows will be releasednext year.
So Ramla, you've just returnedfrom visiting the Dadab refugee
camp in Kenya.
Can you describe a little ofwhat that experience was like
for you personally?
Ramla Ali (01:43):
This trip was like years in the making.
And just being there and justseeing all these incredible
people, I saw so much of myselfin each and every person.
And it was a truly likehumbling experience.
And it it just like made youvalue my life personally so much
(02:05):
more.
And it's, you know, made me sothankful to have the parents
that I had who'd sacrificed somuch to take us away from such a
conflict zone that was Somalia,bring us to safety here in
London and the UK.
And just the whole experienceis just, yeah, just to repeat
(02:27):
again, just truly humbling.
And um, yeah, I was just sohonored to just be amongst all
those incredible people that Imet in Dadab.
Sue Anstiss (02:36):
And other specific moments that will stick with you
long term and carry forever.
I look on social media, you cansee the amazing, you know,
photos and and videos of you andthe work you're doing and the
people you're meeting.
But are there particularmoments you think that will
really stick with you?
Ramla Ali (02:51):
In general, just to see how enthusiastic and so full
of life everyone was, you know,from the outside looking in,
like before I went, I didn'tthink that I would get to see
that.
I I had my own perceptions ofwhat everyone would be like in
(03:11):
the camp, and it was completelydifferent.
Everyone was just so happy tobe alive and just happy to be
there and just so full of life,and everybody had a dream and
everybody had a goal, and thatwas truly just amazing to
witness.
And I think one particularstory that really, really hit me
(03:32):
was a young girl that I'd met,and it was in a program that is
run by UNICEF called uh YoungMothers Program, I believe.
So it's like young girls whothrough either forced child
marriages, rape, had had kids uhfrom a young age, and this one
(03:53):
particular girl was raped at theage of 14 and had a child.
And I had the opportunity tosit down and talk with her, and
she was telling me, you know,when she was a child, she had
these hopes and dreams andaspirations of becoming a model,
like a supermodel, becauseSouth Sudanese women are just
(04:16):
stunning, they're like six footwhatever, legs up to here, and
you know, she had this dream ofbecoming a supermodel, and she
said when she had given birth,those dreams had gone out the
window because she felt gettingpregnant and having the child
had ruined her body.
And so as a result, she had anew dream of, you know, she now
(04:39):
wanted to become a doctor tohelp young girls who are in
similar positions to herself,and you know, she had like a
like a plan like I'm gonna go toboarding school and I'm gonna
leave my daughter with mymother, and you know, this is
what I'm gonna do for myself andfor my family.
And just to see that hope inher face and just how full of
(05:03):
life she was is just what I wastalking about at the beginning.
It's just yeah, it's just itwas just so incredible to see,
witness, and to hear.
Sue Anstiss (05:12):
Yeah, and that importance of hope, isn't it?
What what role do you feel thatUNICEF is playing on the ground
to support those children andyoung people?
I mean, they UNICEF is justtruly incredible because they
have so many amazing programswithin these camps.
As a result of this youngmothers program, the girls are
(05:33):
they're given, they're taughtskills, so they're able to then
use their skills to startbusinesses.
These young girls, 10 of themtogether through learning how to
do hair, do makeup, do nails,give facials, like started a
salon within the dab, and that'swhat they're using to, you
(05:54):
know, look after themselves andlook after their families, and
they say they get a greatincome.
And there's this amazingsisterhood between all of them,
because you know, I asked one ofthem, what would happen if
hypothetically you made moremoney than the other nine girls?
And she said, Well, no, we'rewe're we're a team, we're a
family.
(06:15):
What I make at the end of theday, I make sure we share
between the ten of us because ifI eat, everyone gets to eat,
and it's not fair if I'm theonly person that eats, and that
really like just hit me, andjust it kind of reminded me of
the message of my own charitySisters Club in that all the
(06:36):
women within the Sisters Clubcommunity are sisters, and yeah,
it was incredible to hear that.
Very powerful one.
You mentioned then the braveryof your parents.
So can you tell us a little bitmore of your story and how you
ended up as a refugee and comingto the UK?
Yeah, uh, I was born during theCivil War of Somalia.
(06:57):
My brother died as a result ofa sh um being struck by a stray
grenade, and my parents made theuh incredible decision of you
know taking us from danger, andmy mum didn't want what had
happened to her eldest to happento the rest of us.
(07:19):
So we fled Somalia, we um wehid in a truck basically off the
coast of Somalia, Kismayo, wehid in a cave for a bit and
waited for a boat.
People were like scrambling toget on because everybody was
(07:40):
fleeing uh danger.
So we um got from Kismayo to uhMombasa, where we had some
relatives who were there, and ummy mum was telling me how you
know when we were in Mombasa,she'd queue up for aid.
It's so important to have that.
(08:00):
And so she was queuing up andyou know, making sure like you
know, we had food in our belliesand you know, we had a warm
place to stay.
And uh yeah, so from Kenya wewe sought asylum in the UK as
war refugees.
And as a result, we all my muminstilled in us the uh
(08:23):
importance of education, and meand all my siblings got degrees,
and we were literally fleeingwar.
We were literally fleeing, youknow, the dangers of war, like
my brother was killed, and likewe'd left everything behind.
I don't have a single, well, mymum doesn't have a single
(08:44):
picture of us in Somalia, andit's yeah, she finds it quite
hard because all the memoriesare there.
I just came back from a tripactually uh from in Somalia.
Uh I stayed there 10 days,posted that refugee camp, and I
got to see the house that I wasborn in.
And it's like it changed somuch, it's all like boarded up.
(09:08):
And yeah, it's it was it was itwas it was great to see.
But you're right, people don't leave, people don't
leave their homes and travelacross the world without the
yeah, without the rationale todo so.
You don't just up and leave.
UNICEF has warned that alongwith dying from preventable
diseases, millions more childrencould be out of school by 2026
(09:32):
because of the recent aid cuts,and the UK government took the
decision to cut the aid budgetby 40% by 2027.
So, from your visit andexperiences and your work with
UNICEF UK, what difference doyou think that funding, the aid
funding or the lack of aidfunding will be making to
children's lives?
Ramla Ali (09:50):
Like huge.
Um so the day that I was in theuh I got to meet the young
mothers, one of the youngmothers had collapsed, and that
was a result of severedehydration.
So, you know, aid is currentlybeing cut, yes, and more of it
(10:11):
will be cut by 2027, I believe.
But um the water allowance perperson per householder has been
cut by half.
And she was there, we were justtalking, and she just collapsed
because Kenya's extremely hot,and I'm sure they should be
(10:34):
drinking double why I'm drinkinghere in cold London, but
they're not because of the aidcuts.
And it's horrible to think thepeople that will be affected the
most with these cuts are youngchildren, they don't deserve it,
they've done nothing wrong.
Yeah, and that's yeah, justhorrible to think about.
But it wasn't even just the onegirl.
(10:55):
I was in Dadab for two, twofull days, and within two full
days, three young girls hadcollapsed from severe
dehydration.
Sue Anstiss (11:06):
And what would you want listeners to take away in
terms of taking action?
What can we do from here, bothto learn more about it, but also
in terms of encouraging thegovernment or MPs to support
more?
Ramla Ali (11:20):
Exactly.
Write to your local MPs and youknow, urge them to reconsider
what they're doing.
It's so heartbreaking to justsomething that's that should be
like a basic human right thatthey're not even being afforded
that opportunity.
It's heartbreaking.
(11:40):
But yeah, just write to yourlocal MPs and urge them to
reconsider these decisions.
Sue Anstiss (11:45):
And I'll share some links in the show notes as well
to show the direction andactions people can take too.
Um and what role do you thinksport can play in giving hope
and opportunities to refugeechildren?
Ramla Ali (11:58):
So when I was in the camp, I was fortunate enough to
go and see one of, I believeit's a UNICEF, so UNICEF support
this program called FilmAid,and it's getting uh young
refugee children, kids uh intofilm and TV and giving them the
(12:19):
basic skills to learn how to dophotography, videography,
directing, producing, all ofthat.
Um I watched this film thatthey'd made on the impact of
climate change on them, and itwas, you know, showing that
football, how it's it'saffecting them together with the
(12:40):
aid cuts.
So a lot of the, you know, thekids were collapsing when they
were playing football becausethey couldn't drink enough
water, and the the, you know,sometimes it would they would
have severe rain and theirpitches would get flooded and so
they can no longer play.
But, you know, having somethinglike sport to just take your
(13:03):
mind off everything, I feel likeis so important to young kids.
It teaches them a lot abouthealth, looking after
themselves, and it's doing so ina fun way.
Sue Anstiss (13:15):
And I think it's it you talk about human rights and
actually the the right to justplay as a child and have joy and
all that we know sport bringsin terms of community and
belonging and all those things.
That's so, so important, isn'tit?
Brotherhood, sisterhood, youlose all of that.
And obviously, sports played areally key part in your role
too, and and your the work thatyou're doing.
(13:36):
But you when you arrived in theUK as a refugee, you found
boxing.
So I mean, it almost feelsbizarre to to say that and to
think that.
But how did that happen?
How did that come about?
Uh honestly, I I I wish I couldgive like this, like, oh yeah,
so my dad used to box.
And so I walked no, it honestlyit wasn't that.
I was just, I used to getbullied in school for being
(14:00):
overweight, and one day mysister took me to the gym, and I
remember, so you know, backthen we didn't have Instagram
and you know, or TikTok, and youcouldn't see like workouts to
do.
And I remember feeling so outof place and so uncomfortable in
this gym that was just full ofmen.
(14:22):
Um, so I just started walkingaround the gym and I noticed a
boxer size class, and I walkedin and I fell in love with it.
And from that, I had researchedlocal boxing gyms in the area,
and it the rest is history, butit it literally could have been
any sport.
It wasn't like I have to learnboxing, like I could have walked
(14:46):
into a taekwondo class and Iwould have been a taekwondo
athlete.
So it was just the first sportthat you know I found and I just
fell in love with it.
And what was it about boxing that you so loved,
especially as you say, it's sucha male-dominated sport too?
Such a male-dominated sport.
But I think back then the thingthat I loved the most is like I
(15:07):
said, I felt I didn't know whatI was doing in the in in a
normal gym because we didn'thave these apps, and I liked the
idea of someone telling me whatto do and I didn't have to
think for myself.
And at the same time, you know,I was getting healthy and I was
looking after myself, andsimilar to what you were saying
about sport in that you createthis, you create friendships and
(15:31):
you create bonds with otherpeople, and it wasn't something
that I really had in schoolbecause I was getting bullied,
so I found this like communityof friends within the boxing
gym, and it yeah, it's yeah,yeah.
And your family didn't know, wedidn't let your family know
about it, didn't really approveat the beginning.
So, what was the turning pointin that relationship with your
(15:54):
parents when they shifted andthen almost realized it was
something that they could bereally proud of?
I love there's a story youshared recently on on Instagram
about your mum opposed where yousaid your mum now asks you
about training and if you'redieting before uh a competition
so she can feed you and and cookfor you.
Ramla Ali (16:11):
Somalie food is the best, it's amazing, but it's not
the healthiest, unfortunately.
Um, I think the turning pointfor my mum was when I told her
that I wanted to compete forSomalia, and also like I have
this incredible uncle who islike super team Rambler, and
it's my mum's old older brother,and you know, he sort of told
(16:34):
her the positive impact that Iwould be having amongst young
Somali uh children andencouraging them to get
healthier themselves, like ifthey could see me on the big
stage, it would encourage themto like get fit, get healthy,
because you know, we have a lotof diabetes and high blood
pressures and things like thatwithin the Somali community, and
(16:57):
uh he was just telling my mumlike what a positive thing it
is, what I'm doing.
And I think that's when shecame around, and now, yeah,
she's like my biggest fan, andshe asks me, Can I feed you?
Can you eat cake?
And uh, you know, thinkingabout that and thinking about
that many years ago, I I wouldhave never have envis envisaged
(17:20):
me and my mum having these typesof conversations in the future.
Sue Anstiss (17:23):
And did you imagine in those early days of
discovering boxing that it mighttake you to the Olympics, to a
world title fight?
What how how far in were you interms of training and loving
the sport when that came acrossyour radar?
Or you realised it wassomething you could do?
I never realized that I couldmake boxing into a career.
I mean, even now it's notreally a career, let's be
(17:44):
honest.
Women don't get paid nearlyenough as men.
But I think it was when I metmy husband and he told me, look,
you can do this, is when Itruly started to started to
believe in myself.
I I feel like I just needed tohear it from someone, and you
know, it was never gonna be myparents, let's be honest.
(18:05):
And it was kind of him as wellthat brought my mum around, but
yeah, it was it was probably thebelief that he had in me that
made me feel that made mebelieve in myself.
And you went on to become the first Somali, male or
female, to compete for a worldtitle in boxing.
So what did that milestone thenmean for you, your family, your
(18:26):
your mum's brother, your uncle,a super Ramla fan?
Ramla Ali (18:30):
I think I think the biggest milestone before that
was qualifying and going to theTokyo Olympics because no
athlete outside of run likeliterally just running uh has
for Somalia has ever done anyother sports or can be.
Wow, yeah, nothing.
Um, so it was like something sodifferent, and now we have all
(18:54):
these because well, I don't wantto say because of me, I'm sure
they were doing it themselves,but like I want to take a little
bit of credit, but because ofme, let's say, you know, we now
have Taekwondo athletes.
We have there's a guy thatcontacted me the other day who's
a swimmer and he wants to do itfor Somalia, and it is it's so
incredible incredible to thinkthat I've paved the way for all
(19:17):
these amazing athletes to likeemerge from the country or want
to represent Somalia.
And um when, you know, when Iposted that I was going to the
Tokyo Olympics, the amount ofmessages that I'd received, and
even when I was like holding theflag at the opening ceremony,
like so many people messaged meto say like what an inspiration
(19:40):
I am, and that, you know,because of me, they're they've
encouraged their kids to getinto sport, and I think
ultimately that's what I wanted.
I wanted young children todream big and to realise like
they have so much potential andto sort of allow them the
(20:01):
opportunity to think that theycan do and be and achieve
anything that they want to inlife.
And when I received thosemessages, I felt I felt like my
I did my job right.
Sue Anstiss (20:11):
Absolutely.
And you've also modelled forsome of the biggest fashion
houses.
So how do you balance thatworld of high-end fashion with
the sort of grit and thebrutality of boxing?
They seem like they're quitecontradictory,
Ramla Ali (20:24):
They're very contradictory.
But you know what?
I always say, if you you whenyou book me, you know what
you're getting.
I'm a boxer, right?
So you know I might turn upwith a black eye, or it could
happen.
Like that comes with theterritory.
And I've been fortunate enough,and I've worked with so many
(20:45):
brands that have just neverminded me turning up with a
black eye, or stitches, or notbeing able to do exactly what
they wanted in a campaignbecause I've got a shoulder
injury, or I've got this andthat, and uh yeah, I've just
been so lucky uh to have workedwith all these like incredible
(21:05):
brands that have been soaccommodating to me as a boxer.
Sue Anstiss (21:10):
Yeah, you as you say, you as the whole person,
isn't it?
You've you've also been on thefront cover of Vogue, Mary
Claire, you were selected asTime Woman of the Year.
So, what do those accoladesmean to you in comparison to you
know the Olympic Games andthose sporting accolades?
Do they feel different?
Ramla Ali (21:26):
I mean, they feel like super different, but then
it all like meshes into one.
I feel like, you know, I'm onthe cover of British Vogue
because I've achieved all thesethings and I'm Time Woman of the
Year because I'm doing so muchfor Sisters Club, or I've I've
I've done this and I've donethat, and it's it's two very
different worlds, but I feellike they're merging together
(21:48):
like perfectly, and I'm just soblessed to be a part of both
worlds because the people that Imeet in one, I wouldn't
necessarily meet the other inthat in that world, and it's so
nice that I can, you know, meetall these incredible people, and
yeah, I'm I'm I'm trulyhonoured to be a part of both.
Sue Anstiss (22:10):
And you mentioned then the Sisters Club and being
recognized for all you'vecreated, they're incredible
initiatives.
So can you tell us that thatmight not know much about it,
but a little more about it andthe impact it's having on the
women that are involved?
Ramla Ali (22:23):
Yeah.
Uh I Sisters Club was birthedin 2018 and it started off as me
volunteering an hour of my timea week to teach women how to
box.
Bearing in mind at this pointin my life, I was working three
jobs to fund my boxing careerbecause, you know, as I
(22:46):
mentioned, women don't get paidenough.
And so I decided I wanted toteach women to box.
And, you know, the type ofwomen that I was targeting were
like women that found it reallyhard to gain access to sports.
So, like the religiousminorities, the ethnic
minorities, and the women thatcame from low-income families,
(23:08):
and over time as well, a lot ofwomen that had suffered from
domestic violence were likegravitating towards the class.
And what initially turned intolike a six-month passion project
has grown uh incredibly overthe years.
So now we have four boxingclasses a week in London and one
(23:29):
in New York.
We have a run club, we have abasketball club, and we have a
football club, and then we alsohave a run club in Florida as
well.
And it's just growing and it'sallowing like these vulnerable
groups of women to feelempowered to create bonds of
sisterhood with other clubmembers.
(23:50):
And one actually success story,not success, but a story to
celebrate or yeah.
Story to celebrate is uh one ofthe girls who was getting
beaten up so badly by herhusband who found the courage to
leave him and now coaches forSisters Club.
(24:12):
Oh wow.
One of the best stories to havecome from Sisters Club.
So the the the mission that Ihad in the beginning, uh hearing
that just made made me so gladthat I started it in the first
place.
Sue Anstiss (24:27):
Yeah, so proud.
That's like the full fullcircle there, isn't it?
Uh giving back, yeah, yeah.
And as well as being a boxerand a model and the UNICEF UK
ambassador, you're now going tobe the subject of a Hollywood
film to be released next year.
So in the shadows.
Yeah.
I just wonder how you feel.
What does it feel like to knowyour life is going to be
portrayed on the big screen?
Ramla Ali (24:47):
I remember when we first started filming last year,
the production designer came upto me and said, So how does it
feel like you're you're stillyoung and you're still an active
athlete and yet a film is beingmade about you?
Whereas people are towards theend of their careers or like
they're, you know, 60, 70 andthey're not having anything made
(25:10):
about them.
How do you feel?
And I said, you know what?
It's incredible because yes,it's a sports story about me and
boxing, but more than anything,it's a positive migrant story,
and and it's also like apositive interracial love story
as well between myself and myhusband.
And yeah, I can't, I I justcan't believe like a some people
(25:35):
want to wanted to have made afilm about me, and like people
are gonna want to watch it.
It's it's like ah it's sobizarre, but um, but yeah,
again, truly humbling and I'm sohonoured.
Sue Anstiss (25:50):
You're clearly someone who's challenged
stereotypes.
So what what do you hope theyour activity will enable young
girls and refugees everywhere toknow about the potential for
them to follow their own path?
Because that really feels as ifthat's the kind of message
you're giving.
Ramla Ali (26:06):
Yes.
There was actually a group ofyoung girls that I met in the
dab.
Uh, we sat down and we weretalking about how just I just
wanted to get to know thembasically.
And one of the girls asked me,How did you sort of change
people's perceptions of, youknow, uh a Somali girl getting
into boxing because I personallywant to be a psychologist and
(26:31):
I'm being told that I shouldn'tbe going to school because I
should be learning to stay athome and cook and be a
housewife, but that's not what Iwant to do, and just her asking
me that has already allowed mystory to change the minds of
other people, and it's you know,because of me, she's she's
wanting to be a psychologist,and uh my story is is showing
(26:55):
her that she can do and she canbe anything that she wants to
be, and it's yeah, it's justquite nice to to know about.
Sue Anstiss (27:02):
And what's next for you now?
So in sport, again when you'vegot another fight coming up on
fashion and your humanitarianwork, you know, in each of those
areas, what's what's coming up?
Ramla Ali (27:12):
So the only thing that I know is coming up is that
our next beacon beating inDecember, fingers crossed, or
God willing, I always say thatbecause my mum has always taught
me to say that because of mybrother passing away when we
were in Somalia.
Life is never certain, andthat's why I don't like like to
plan things too far ahead.
(27:33):
So I'm just gonna starttraining for that.
What's it called?
Sue Anstiss (27:37):
You say a beacon, the name of the event you're
preparing for?
Ramla Ali (27:40):
Just uh it would just be a fight in December.
Okay, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
And yeah, I just don't like toplan too far ahead.
For that, I'm I'm gonna starttraining uh soon and just to get
ready for that.
But that's the only thing Ihave planned coming up.
Everything else is just as andwhen it comes, basically.
Sue Anstiss (27:59):
I like that approach to life.
Leave the space, create thevacuum, and who knows what will
come into it.
Ramla Ali (28:05):
Exactly.
Um, I love to livespontaneously as well.
A friend of mine just messagedme, she said, Hey, do you want
to come to Turkey?
And I was this close to sayingyeah.
But then I was just, I waslike, Oh, honestly, I'm so
tired.
I travelled so much last week,just that I just want to just
rest for a bit.
But yeah, I just I just love tolive in the moment.
(28:25):
I've actually deleted all mysocial media uh since January of
2024 because I just want tolive in the moment.
I don't want to be uh tired tomy phone uh and scrolling away
and just wasting life away.
I just want to be in thepresent and be surrounded by
(28:45):
people that I love and justyeah.
Sue Anstiss (28:48):
That's such a powerful thing to do, isn't it?
And such a powerful message aswell to be to live for the now
and the moment.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
For sure.
And and just finally, if youcould deliver one message to
governments and people ingeneral about children and
adults in refugee camps, whatwhat would you say?
What would be your kind ofclosing message there?
Ramla Ali (29:09):
I think the closing message is that everyone is a
human being, so treat everyoneas a human being.
Yeah, short and sweet.
There you go.
Sue Anstiss (29:22):
I think we might all be joining Super Team Ramla
after that interview.
If you'd like to hear fromother Trailblazers in sport,
there are more than 200 episodesof The Game Changers to free to
listen to on all podcastplatforms or from our website at
fearlesswomen.co.uk.
Guests include elite athletesalong with coaches,
(29:43):
broadcasters, scientists,journalists and CEOs, all women
who are changing the game insport.
As well as listening to all theepisodes on the website, you
can also find out more about theWomen's Sport Collective, a
free, inclusive community forall women working in.
Sport.
We now have over 14,000 membersacross the world, so please do
(30:05):
come and join us.
The whole of my book, Game On,The Unstoppable Rise of Women's
Sport, is also free to listen toon the podcast.
Every episode of series 13 isme reading a chapter of the
book.
Thank you to Sport England, whosupport the Game Changers with
a National Lottery Award, and toSam Walker at What Goes On
(30:27):
Media, who does such a brilliantjob as our executive producer.
Thank you also to my brilliantcolleague at Fearless Women,
Kate Hannon.
You can find the Game Changerson all podcast platforms, so
follow us now and you won't missout on future episodes.
Do come and say hello on socialmedia where you'll find me on
(30:47):
LinkedIn and Instagram at SueAnstis.
The Game Changers.
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