November 12, 2024 • 49 mins
Our guest today is Yvette Curtis, founder of Wave Wahines, a female surfing club dedicated to empowering women and girls in the sport.
We discuss Yvette's journey from her childhood in Bristol to her current work in North Devon, the importance of fun and non-competitive environments in sports, and the challenges of promoting diversity and inclusion in surfing.
Yvette shares her experiences of the backlash she faced when addressing issues of representation and the need for diverse voices in sports management. We explore the importance of representation and diversity in surfing and sport, the impact of Yvette’s research on UK surfing and the empowering role of surf therapy for marginalized communities.
Yvette highlights the therapeutic benefits of surfing for mental health, the challenges of finding funding for the grassroots CIC and the growth of female participation in the sport.
Wave Wahines which has supported hundreds of women and girls coming into the sport, along with running surf therapy with women living in refuge, sessions for resettled young female refugees, collaborations with Queer Surf Club, the first Trans and nonbinary youth surf session & hosting the first UK female focused surf contest which is now an annual event.
There’s huge recognition and celebration of Yvette’s powerful work in the areas of inclusion and ocean activism.
Here is Yvette's Surfing & Diversity Report
Thank you to Sport England who support The Game Changers Podcast with a National Lottery award.
Find out more about The Game Changers podcast here: https://www.fearlesswomen.co.uk/thegamechangers
Hosted by Sue Anstiss
Produced by Sam Walker, What Goes On Media
A Fearless Women production
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sue Anstiss (00:02):
Hello and welcome to The Game Changers.
I'm Sue Anstiss, and this isthe podcast where you'll hear
from trailblazing women in sportwho are knocking down barriers
and challenging the status quofor women and girls everywhere.
What can we learn from theirjourneys as we explore key
issues around equality in sportand beyond?
I'd like to start with a bigthank you to our partners, Sport
(00:24):
England, who support The GameChangers podcast through a
national lottery award.
I'm excited to say that in this, the 18th series of The Game
Changers, I'll be talking tofounders and entrepreneurs, the
women who have set uporganisations that help change
the landscape for all women andgirls in sport.
(00:47):
In today's episode, I'm talkingto Yvette Curtis, the founder of
Wave Wahines, a female surfingclub that has supported hundreds
of women and girls coming intothe sport, along with running
surf therapy with women livingin refuge, sessions for
resettled young female refugees,collaborations with the Queer
Surf Club, the first trans andnon-binary youth surf session,
(01:11):
and hosting the first UK femalefocused surf session, which is
now an annual event.
There's huge recognition andcelebration for Yvette's work,
and just this month, the clubwas shortlisted for the
Community Club of the Year inthe gender category of the
National Diversity Awards.
So, Yvette, let's start bytalking about beautiful Croyde
(01:36):
in North Devon, where you live,and obviously being by the sea
is amazing, but has that alwaysbeen a part of your life, living
by the sea?
Yvette Curtis (01:44):
Wow.
Well, firstly, thank you forthat introduction.
That was spectacular.
I wasn't prepared for that atall.
Wow Gosh, we've done quite alot, haven't we?
It's always quite stunning whensomeone sort of puts a massive
summary together, goodness.
But in answer to your question,I have not always been in
Croyde.
I've lived in North Devon forthe past 15 years I think now.
(02:05):
I actually grew up in Bristoland spent all my formative years
growing up in a city, basicallyin a suburb of Bristol, so not
sort of city central.
So being by the beach wassomething we did, maybe a couple
of times a year on holidaywithin the UK, but also my dad's
from Mauritius .
(02:28):
So we were fortunate enough totravel back to Mauritius for
family holidays.
So I occasionally got to samplethat, but never really spent
much time by the coastline upuntil I took the decision to
move here.
Sue Anstiss (02:38):
And will you stay there forever?
You think the sea's a placethat you'll need to be forever
in the future.
Yvette Curtis (02:43):
I think so.
Yeah, whether it's Croyde orwhether it's, you know, south of
the border down into Cornwall,or whether it's somewhere
overseas, I think I'll alwaysneed to be, you know, fairly
close to being by the ocean.
Yeah, definitely.
Sue Anstiss (02:57):
And it's through your children that much of your
work started with Wave Wahinez.
But how was sport a part ofyour life growing up as a young
girl in Bristol?
Yvette Curtis (03:06):
For me it's just been always part of who I am.
I went to an all-girls schoolas a teenager and my favourite
teacher was my PE teacher, MrsSeeley.
I still remember her, you know,and she has shaped everything I
think I've done sport-wise.
I think she was reallymotivational and saw a lot of
(03:26):
talent that I maybe didn't seeat the time.
So I became captain of quite afew of the sports clubs.
I played netball throughout myentire sort of school career.
I was captain, I played centre.
So I was quite a competitiveyoung woman at that point and
won sort of trophies on sportsday.
So for me sport was justeverything.
(03:48):
It was part of who I was.
I wasn't hugely academic,although I did fairly well in my
exams, but it certainly wasn'twhere I put my focus.
So I'm always grateful to MrsSeely for what she did.
I remember I think my dad foundmy gosh.
I'm going to give out my agenow, my record of achievement
from school, and in that recordof achievement as a I must have
(04:09):
been 15, I suppose I'd put inthere that I was always going to
work in sport and I was goingto change the world by being
sporty, and I was just like.
I read it as a maybe four yearsago, so 40, and read it and I
was so stunned by that sentenceand thought, my goodness, wow,
I'm not sure I'm changing theworld by sport.
(04:30):
I'm definitely in it.
Sue Anstiss (04:31):
Yeah, I think you are.
I think you definitely are.
I love that.
I love that looking back andfinding it too, and in terms of
the outdoors and physicalactivity, obviously netball and
team sports and so on but whendid that start, almost that love
of outdoors that was intocollege.
Yvette Curtis (04:54):
So I went to college in Bristol to do my
A-levels and one of the reasonsI chose the college I chose,
which was Filton, was becausethey had this incredible outdoor
pursuits program that you couldrun alongside your A-levels.
It was classes like an A-levelrelated, so you then gained
qualifications in climbing, inkayaking, in powerboat, sort of
licensing, all of those things.
So you got to do that alongsideyour A-level courses.
(05:17):
So I picked that college sothat I could actually continue
with sport in a really differentway and funnily enough I was in
the same outdoor pursuits classas Jenny Jones, obviously now
famous Olympic snowboarder.
So we were friends at collegeand sort of went on the same
trips and stuff.
And I remember it was the dryslope skiing that we did at
(05:37):
college as a group thatcompletely put me off because I
fell over and really hurt myselfand I was like, oh my gosh,
skiing and stuff and snow is notfor me.
And I remember that was theyear that Jenny went on the
overseas trip and then made thedecision that that was what her
career was going to be.
Sue Anstiss (05:55):
Oh wow.
And I'd seen some socialactually of her coming down to
and we're going to come and talkabout your activity.
But I've seen her, so I've madethat connection now of her
coming down and being asupporter of all you're doing
now as well too.
All those years on.
That's lovely isn't?
Yvette Curtis (06:09):
it.
Yeah, because she she wasalways a surfer as well, having
grown up sort of in Cornwall and, and so, yeah, she came down
and being friends, she became acaptain for one of our sort of
contests and, again, just supersupportive, got in with the
girls, did a bit of coachingwith them and just a bit of
mentoring and yeah, it's reallylovely when you get sort of
friends like that who are justreally keen to support something
(06:30):
that's so grassrootsy.
It's really, yeah, it's reallylovely and it's really
incredible for the girls becausethey're so like, so starstruck
when when people like sort ofJenny or Laura will come along
to sessions, and it's justpretty, pretty magical that
we've got the ability to do that.
Sue Anstiss (06:45):
That's lovely, but you didn't pursue sport as a
career, although I do believeyou later became a personal
trainer.
So how did that kind oftransition from your original
career to personal training yeah?
Yvette Curtis (06:57):
it was really different.
Actually, I think life happened.
I left home really young, movedout when I was sort of just
before I was 18.
So finished college whilstliving outside of the house.
So I think that became quite achallenge and sort of just fell
into a very different pattern oflife.
I think that took me away fromeducation, took me away from
(07:17):
sports, and then I actually hadmy first child when I was 22.
First child when I was 22.
So then it just became allabout sort of them and looking
after them and being able towork and do all those things
that should maintaining anotherhuman involve.
So, yeah, it was reallydifferent and I'd occasionally
do aerobics classes with mygirlfriends, but then I actually
(07:39):
got.
It was actually my divorce thatthrew me back into sport.
I found running was reallycathartic and going through a
divorce was pretty challenging.
So I found that running wasjust this amazing way of
switching off and just focusingon sort of me and just being
really really free mentally andended up, actually I think the
(08:00):
year I did sort of the divorcecame through, I ran my first
marathon Wow, wow, yeah, andnever, never really looked back
from there.
So I sort of realized at thatpoint that you know, sport was
just completely in me, retrainedwork-wise to be a personal
trainer and and yeah, and thatwas kind of the start of where I
(08:21):
am now, because it just I cansee the impact it has on people
and I think if you have a sport,it doesn't matter what it is
and no matter what level youplay at or what level you do it
and pursue it.
I think as long as you havesomething that is physical and
active in your life, I thinkit's so grounding for everything
else.
Sue Anstiss (08:39):
And so how did Way for Heenis start so kind of
moving you out running marathonsand being a personal trainer?
But?
But how did Wave Wahine startso kind of moving you out
running marathons and being apersonal trainer?
But how did it initiate?
And where did the name comefrom as well too.
What does the name mean?
Yvette Curtis (08:50):
Well, wahine is a Polynesian word which basically
just means female, femalesurfer primarily.
So obviously we wanted tomaintain that connection to
Polynesian roots so we just wentwith Wave Wahine.
It just seemed the perfect fit.
And, yeah, I think it's theperfect name for it because I
did a lot of reading around sortof surfing and its heritage and
(09:12):
its culture and very muchwanted to ensure that we were
being true to that sort ofhistory.
So, yeah, that was where thename came from.
But the actual club came frommy eldest child.
At the time they were bornfemale and identified as Aaliyah
.
Now they are a trans male andidentify as Aidan.
So just to clarify that.
So we began because of a need.
(09:33):
They'd come to me and said look, mom, I really want to go
surfing.
We live by the coast.
And I thought, oh gosh, okay,it's the one thing I actually
have no concept of.
I'd had a surfing lesson aspart of my 30th bucket list year
and it was great and I reallyenjoyed it.
So totally could see the pull,but had never pursued it and
never done it any other way.
(09:54):
So I booked her a couple ofprivate lessons, loved it, but
financially that's just not afeasible thing long term.
So I mean, when you're lookingat now sort of surf lessons are
upwards of £45 for a session, soit's an expensive pastime.
So we looked at local surfclubs, surf organizations, but
you know, as I'm sure you canprobably imagine, they were
(10:15):
quite male-dominated.
Quite a lot of guys, they allknew each other, they'd all
grown up together, they all hadtheir own kit and so it just
wasn't something we couldmaintain.
And I spoke to a girlfriend ofmine, karma Worthington, who is
a former junior champion and shenow coaches actually the Team
England juniors.
So I spoke to her about thisand I said, look, you know, can
(10:35):
we do something?
Because my child can't be theonly person in this predicament?
There must be others withparents like me who don't surf,
who wouldn't know what to do andwouldn't know how to get them
started.
But you know, be others withparents like me who don't surf,
who wouldn't know what to do andwouldn't know how to get them
started.
But I have my own personaltraining business that was
really successful.
So I know how to coach and Iknow how to run a business.
I was like we can put the twotogether if you can figure out
how we can get the surfingcoaches.
(10:57):
And she was really on board.
And another female coach, liv,also came on board and we
approached our local surf school, surf Southwest, and said, look
, can we trial this and just seewhat happens?
Would you support this and howmuch would it cost?
And they were so fantastic andjust went.
Well, you can have the schoolfor free.
All the stuff can be free.
You just need to pay thecoaches.
(11:18):
So you know.
So, between myself, karma andLiv, I would just be there doing
the organizing and lots ofcheerleading and warmups and
stuff, and they would be doingthe surf coaching.
And we obviously stood the testof time.
We obviously filled a need inthe local area, because you know
, we're here eight years latergoing super strong, and of that
(11:39):
first cohort I think we maybehad probably about 10 of them
that surfed with us regularlyand of those 10, four of them
went on to become surf coachesand lifeguards themselves, and I
think that would be by andlarge because they were taught
by female coaches.
They could see there was aprogression for them.
So it has become a real cyclewithin our local community of
(12:00):
progress.
Sue Anstiss (12:01):
And how important is it?
Do you think that kind ofnon-competitive element of
participating in the sport too,isn't it?
I do so much on the pathway andwhere you are on an England
pathway or a GB pathway, butactually when I've looked at
some of the work that you'vedone, it's just that pure joy of
sport and participating, and doyou think that was an important
element in its growth too?
Yvette Curtis (12:21):
A hundred percent .
Yeah, we always started theclub with the sort of ethos that
it was based on fun.
It was all based on play.
It wasn't based on who's caughtthe best waves, who stood up
the most, who's you know youcould go on, it was phones, with
you know all the pressure to bethis perfect thing, that
(12:49):
actually just being allowed tojust do whatever you want and
have, you know, salty hair snotdripping out of your face and
all that stuff that comes withbeing in the sea.
It's just fun and we're areally non-judgmental
organization.
We always have a little bit ofa recap when we have new joiners
to, to be like, let's rememberyou know where we were when we
first started.
(13:09):
So let's make sure everyonefeels welcome and that's one of
the things that has paid off.
You know I've had parents say tome my child's so much more
confident now, or you knowthey're having issues at school
and coming to the club hasreally allowed them to to sort
of escape those issues thatthey're having.
So it's been.
You know, it's been really,really important to us that it
is focused on the fun element.
(13:31):
But equally, you know, kids arekids and there's moments where
you know we've had parents goactually this happened and we've
had to take that with ourcoaches and say, look, here's
the moment that we need toeither make sure that all of our
young people are workingtogether and just explain to
them why it's really importantthat you know anything that's
happening at school it doesn'tboil over into our club.
(13:52):
Our club is where we're alltogether, we're in the sea.
It's, you know, it's adangerous place if you don't
respect it.
So, yeah, we are really carefulwith how we interact with the
girls that surf with us and makesure that they all feel welcome
that surf with us and make surethat they all feel welcome.
Sue Anstiss (14:06):
And I think if I ask anyone what we would think
of a typical surfer, it'sprobably a blonde, white,
athletic young man would be thekind of image that's conjured up
.
So I'm really interested hasthat always been the case?
When we look back?
You mentioned that kind ofPolynesian history, but in terms
of where surfing came from andhow it's grown, is that what we
would see across the world?
That look and feel of a male?
Yvette Curtis (14:28):
surfing.
Yeah, that's definitely theimage that has now put out there
.
Obviously that image is nowalso translated into the
feminine, but that that stuffwould still, by and large you
would think of someone who isblonde, athletic, petite, tan,
beautiful, all of those things.
But historically it was notthat.
Historically, obviously it'sgot roots in Polynesia.
(14:48):
There'll also be rootshistorically in the African
continent.
So those are communities thataren't white.
Those are definitelycommunities of color,
particularly when we're talkingabout the Polynesian side.
It was a sport for all people,it was a pastime of queens,
kings to everybody else.
You know it wasn't somethingthat had this massive hierarchy
(15:09):
about it.
But then, as in a lot of thesemoments, then colonization
happens and missionaries arrive,and missionaries come to say
actually, what you're doing,it's wrong, especially for women
to be doing it, because they'renot wearing very many clothes
because're in Hawaii actually,so it's probably quite warm, so
(15:29):
they don't need to be in starchand cotton like the missionaries
would have then put them in.
So it was definitely an act ofcolonialism that then almost
wiped out surfing.
You then had princes that didcontinue that tradition of
watercraft and and they traveledand took surfing to various
parts of the globe.
(15:49):
At that point, the UK being oneof them.
I think the first place wasmaybe Bridport, where we had two
Hawaiian princes that surfedhere.
So it did manage to stay withinthat Hawaiian culture.
But then when it wastransferred to other continents
it completely lost that identity.
So it was then almost madeextinct by colonialism and then
(16:12):
taken away by Western sort ofcommunity and civilization and
almost repackaged and repurposedand curated into what we see
today.
You know it went through itsobvious stage in the 70s and 80s
and early 90s of just massivemisogyny.
It was very much amale-dominated sport and the
(16:32):
only females that you'd getwould be in bikinis, kind of
watching their boyfriend surfing.
And then the females that didstart surfing were definitely in
the minority and probablysuffered rather a lot.
You know there's an amazingfilm called Girls Can't Surf
which focused on that period inthe 90s where you know, women
were definitely ostracized fromthe community.
(16:54):
The bikini contest, you know,got more money than the women's
sort of surfers.
They got put out in theterrible waves and that's kind
of what has become the image ofthe surf sector and surf culture
today and that's why, you know,there's clubs like ours and
there's clubs across the, therest of the UK and globally,
that are kind of standing up andgoing.
(17:15):
But that's not.
That's not what surfing was allabout, and it's not what it's
about and it's not who shouldonly have access to it.
So, yeah, I think it's reallyimportant that we, we learn from
that history and we actually'reactually really connected to it
, because it wasn't the imagethat we've sort of had, nicely
packaged up and given to us nowkind of came across you and all
the work that you were doing.
Sue Anstiss (17:48):
But you did a piece for BBC Spotlight about the
lack of diversity in surfing andhighlighting issues around
access and inclusion andrepresentation, and what was the
response to your calling thatout within the surfing community
?
Yvette Curtis (17:59):
Yeah, that was pretty unpleasant.
It was quite heavily trolled,millions of little
microaggressions thrown in there, of no one stopping them going
in the water.
You know, there's no signs andI'm like, well, actually, until
really recently there were signsin America saying like no
blacks on this beach.
So that's, you know, that'strue and untrue anyway.
Yeah, so it was quiteunpleasant for me to kind of
(18:22):
witness and I did sort of takestock of.
You know, do I want to reallybe challenging this and do I
want to be talking about it?
Because it's really heavilyemotional for me to have to read
that stuff.
It's emotional for my kids toread it.
You know, my eldest, obviously,you know, was a lot older then,
so is on social media, can seewhat people are saying.
So, yeah, it becomes like abigger thing.
(18:45):
Then, you know, am I puttingputting my family in a position
that they haven't asked to beput in.
And I sat down sort of speakingto my dad and my mum about this
and and they sort of just said,you know, look, we've had abuse
for all our lives, being, youknow, a mixed heritage couple,
but when we were growing up orwhen we were sort of a couple
new, it was kind of accepted,you know, like racism was just.
(19:09):
It probably wasn't just calledracism, it was just how you
treat people who aren't white.
And my dad said now the law ison your side.
You know you're allowed to saythis stuff, you're allowed to
challenge it, and you know Ithink it's great.
He said look, we're here, sataround having fish and chips,
talking about race.
This is fantastic.
So this would never happen.
When I was sort of my age, atbeing what?
(19:30):
40.
At that time, having thatconversation around a table
wouldn't have existed.
It just would be somethingthat's brushed under the carpet.
So I think it would have been.
Really I couldn't have notstood up about it at that point,
because then I was like well,actually my dad wasn't able to,
and I am and and I'm going toshow my children that, that you
don't have to accept that andthat that's not right and you
(19:52):
can't just let people bully youbecause of you know something
that is unchangeable, like thecolor of my skin.
So that's kind of why we wedecided to continue with it and
and I'm really glad we did youknow it's not been without its
challenges, but I'm really gladwe did.
You know it's not been withoutits challenges, but I'm really
comfortable that I can sleep atnight with what we've done.
Sue Anstiss (20:09):
That's excellent to hear, isn't it?
But it's weird, isn't it, thatwhole have a surf community, but
just how communities get sodefensive about it.
I spoke to SabrinaPace-Humphreys on the Game
Changers podcast as well, too,and she talked about the vitriol
and the backlash that she'dfaced when calling out like a
diversity where she lived and inthe outdoor running space.
So I just wonder, why do youthink that is that there's
(20:31):
almost a truth of it, because itis the truth.
It makes people so angry anddefensive about their sport or
their area.
Yvette Curtis (20:38):
Honestly, it's such a big question and I think
it's really hard to answer, butI think I don't think it's
anything well most of the time.
I don't think it's really hardto answer, but I think I don't
think it's anything well.
Most of the time I don't thinkit's anything malicious.
Obviously, you know, some of itis out and out racism, but I
think a lot of the time it'salmost.
People don't want to be callednames, they don't want to be
called something and if you'resaying this particular thing,
(21:00):
whether it's, you know, and itclearly is right you know there
is a lack of representationwithin certain sports and
certain activities and and Ithink people maybe get this
feeling that you're calling thema racist, you're calling them a
name and it's like no, that'snot what I'm doing.
I'm saying this sport isn'trepresentative of the world we
live in.
(21:21):
I'm not saying this sport isthis, you are this, yeah, yeah,
and I think that's it.
I do think people think you're,you're saying they're this
really wrong and awful thing,but it's not that case and, yeah
, I think maybe that's whypeople get so, so defensive.
But also, people don't likemirrors, you know.
You don't like to look at itand go gosh, have I been
complicit in this by not sayingsomething.
(21:42):
There's also.
There's also that edge to it aswell, so so I think it's a
really big question, probablymassively multilayered.
Sue Anstiss (21:50):
Yeah, it's fascinating and, as you say and
as your dad said over the fishand chips, good that we are
talking about it and havingthose conversations today too.
I feel from the outside ofhaving seen you on interviews
and panels and podcasts, youalways seem very calm and gentle
in your approach to thesediscussions.
So is that the case and how hasthat been for you?
Yvette Curtis (22:12):
Well, thank you for saying that.
That's really nice.
I'm really glad that this isbeing recorded so I can play it
back to my husband and go look,see, I am really calm, fantastic
.
And honestly, I haven't alwaysbeen this way.
I really haven't.
I've been quite reactive, Iwould say, and definitely
(22:36):
probably respond before I shouldhave done, and then I'll
respond in something that'sreally really argumentative and
really combative.
So I think this has been like areal lesson that has just come
with age and has come also withhow I don't like being spoken to
.
You know, for me, if someone'sshouting and waving their fists
at me and getting really in myface, then I tend to just go
(22:59):
well, I'm not even going todiscuss it with you because you
can't hold a conversation.
So I think I've now gotten tosort of that stage where I just
I'd rather sit back, absorb theinformation and then sort of
come back with a discussionpoint, and so I think it's just.
I just don't think I'm going toget the right outcome for what
I want if I'm shouting atsomebody or being really, really
(23:22):
aggressive and it's not in mynature.
I'm not a massively aggressiveperson, although my kids would
say when I play ocean bingo.
I'm incredibly aggressive andcompetitive.
What's ocean bingo?
Oh, it's literally.
It's literally bingo, butyou've got ocean animals instead
, so you're pulling out loads ofdifferent animals from the
ocean.
So, yeah, we're literally thatfamily, but we love it.
(23:43):
Yeah, we've got that.
So yeah, so, so yeah.
So we do learn a lot, which isreally good, a really good way
of introducing new ocean life tothem.
But yeah, I am quitecompetitive, but I just don't
think I'm an aggressive personin how I speak to people.
I think my dad's quitesoft-spoken and quite gentle and
(24:03):
I always knew that if he hadsomething to say, I'd be in
really big trouble.
So I kind of think, actually,if you're quite mild and you're
quite you know, hopefully quitelikable and usually fairly
diplomatic in your thoughtprocess, then actually when you
do kind of go up a slight level,then people are like oh
goodness, oh goodness, what havewe done?
Yeah, absolutely.
Sue Anstiss (24:23):
And how important is it that diverse
representation, I guess in termsof gender and ethnicity, and
not kind of all areas ofdiversity in terms of the
management of sport and wherethose decisions are being made?
There's a lot of the work thatwe do in terms of female
leadership, but but howimportant is that in terms of
the work that you're doing andsurfing generally?
Yvette Curtis (24:42):
you know, I think it's really important because
people need to see that there'sa pathway for them if they want
to, you know, continue within acertain sport or a certain
sector.
And the only way that you cansee that happening is if you can
see someone that you can relateto, someone that is, you know,
resonant, resonates with you andand at the moment we don't
(25:03):
really see that very much withinother sports it's getting
better, I think it is improving,but we don't really see that
very much Within other sports.
It's getting better, I think itis improving, but we certainly
don't see it within surfing.
Gender wise, it's definitelyimproving.
You know, we've got obviouslythere's, you know, female
coaches now within the SurfingEngland Junior Squad.
We've got the GB surfingmanager is female and, yeah,
(25:26):
fantastic surfer Gwen Spurlock.
She's amazing, but again, it'sit's taken a long time and
what's been really interestingis the women that are now
certainly coming through in theUK sort of management side are
the ones that that sort of youknow, having spoken to them may
have struggled with gettingsponsorship because they didn't
feel that that cookie cutterimage that we were presented
(25:47):
with.
Yet they stood the test of time.
They're still here and now theyare at the upper echelons of
our sport and, and I thinkthat's something that, you know,
they should be really proud ofand it's definitely something
that our girls get to look up to, and I just, yeah, I think
there needs to be more womengoing into those fields within
(26:08):
the surfing sector, because itis it's so great to be a part of
, but you know, it's a challenge, like anything, but if you love
it, you love it and it is lifechanging.
Sue Anstiss (26:17):
As you say, we need those women in the rooms and
making those decisions too,don't we?
Yvette Curtis (26:21):
Yeah, I did no-transcript.
(26:58):
We're far away away from it in2022.
Sue Anstiss (27:02):
you wrote a fantastic report about surfing
and diversity, and I'll share alink to it in the show notes for
the podcast too, because it wasjust really interesting.
I learned so much in readingthat.
So I guess why did you writethat report?
Because they take work tocreate those kind of things too,
and I guess, has it had impact?
What have you kind of found theresponse to it has been.
Yvette Curtis (27:23):
Yeah, the reason I did the research in the first
place was because I couldn'tfind any.
I couldn't find any figures,particularly in response to sort
of UK surfing and sort of whatit's like over here, and there
didn't seem to be any happeningwithin sort of our governance
structures.
So I think I just got reallytired of waiting and just went
(27:45):
oh, how hard can it be?
Turns out quite hard.
I was really lucky enough to bepart of a group of sort of the
Committee for Women SurfersEurope, and on that group
there's an amazing academiccalled Rebecca Olive.
She's based in Australia andshe sort of specializes in
(28:06):
gender studies, particularlyaround water, and I sort of
bounced the idea of her andshe's like oh, my God, that's
great.
If I can help, you know, let meknow.
And I was like you know, Ican't pay, you don't you?
Firstly, and you know, andshe's a really good friend, and
I sort of put together all thequestions, sent them to her to
proofread, then just sort ofcame back with with her
(28:27):
suggestions and experience andand then we just put it out and
you know, when sort of thequestions came back, I remember
thinking, god, she's gonnaabsolutely hate me because I
just put everything in an excelspreadsheet and just went there
you go, don't really know whatto do with that now and she was
just phenomenal the way she sortof found the threads of and I'm
(28:48):
like God.
This is why, like, research isjust a completely different
animal because it was amazinghow she pulled that stuff out.
So she sent me then the keytakeaways and sort of the stats
I still had all the raw data andthen just put together the
report that we put together, gether to have a look at it and
then just sort of you know,double check that I had pulled
out the right information.
(29:08):
And that was when that wentlive and I think you know it's
been two years.
So I think we're due to beputting together another one
before the end of this year sowe can then see whether it's
changed.
We didn't have much responsefrom within governance.
We had a lot of response fromour community, from the surfing
(29:29):
community and from thenon-surfing community going God.
This is why we haven't tried itbefore.
I think it was really worthdoing.
I think now, when we recreateit and see how we've moved on,
we'll probably add slightlydifferent questions in addition
to what we have slightlydifferent questions in addition
to what we have.
So we've still got that sort ofbaseline of knowledge.
(29:49):
But it was yeah, it was justborn out of a absolute need for
data, because you can't get anyinformation unless you know
where you're starting from, andthere was no starting point
within UK surfing.
So I thought, well, instead ofwaiting, let's just do it.
And because I'm, you know,independent, I'm just me I
didn't have to have anyconstraints of other people
(30:09):
saying, well, you can't ask thatwe're trying to structure the
information this way, we'retrying to present it this way.
I could just be like well, I'mjust doing it.
I don't have any agenda ormotives or have to get a certain
result out of it, I can just behonest.
Sue Anstiss (30:26):
I can just be honest Excellent.
That's really good to hear,isn't it?
And then to see the impact thatmight have moving forward too.
I'd like to ask, if I can,about some of the programs that
you've run with Wave Wahinez.
I know you've done somefantastic work with Syrian
refugees within the North Devonarea, so can you tell us a
little bit more about that, Iguess, and the impact that
that's had too?
Yvette Curtis (30:43):
Yeah, that has been so lovely to have done that
.
And again that came out of thediscussion around the lack of
diversity within surfing and wesort of said you know, look, we
are running these programs,they're fully funded.
And interestingly, the groupthat came back to us were a
group of sort of resettledSyrian refugees and to us that
(31:05):
was probably not the demographicwe thought would happen,
because I had no idea we hadsuch a large number of resettled
families in North Devon.
I knew we had a couple, butyeah, it was really interesting
and obviously that then addeddifferent elements to how we
looked at handling that SURFprogram.
They were obviously they'recoming from war.
(31:26):
Handling that surf program.
They were obviously they'recoming from from war.
They're coming from interimsort of refugee camps.
Potentially, you know,different housing, language,
culture, trauma, all of thosethings are are suddenly in
addition to to what we hadlooked at.
So for us it was just like,okay, this is, this is brilliant
(31:47):
.
We're definitely going to workwith this community.
It would be fantastic.
But how do we then manage thatfor them safely and making sure
that they get what they want toget out of it?
So we ensured that it was onlyfemale-led staff.
We spoke to their parents.
We really reassured them thatthrough an interpreter.
This was that we would ensurethat it was only women on site
(32:10):
at the time.
They would have the option,obviously, to have full wetsuits
, so they wanted to wear stuffover the top.
We had access to Finisterre'ssea suit, which was made for
modesty, so we tried to makesure that they had as many
barriers removed that wepossibly could do and we had
volunteers for each young person.
So that was how we started andhow we sort of led that first,
(32:34):
that first sort of group ofyoung women, and I remember that
first sort of group we ran overmaybe two months and one of the
young people they had a littlesister who was one and a half, I
think, at that time and she wasjust a beautiful little thing
and they they didn't speak anyEnglish at that point.
And if we fast forward now tothis year, that little girl
(33:00):
surfed with us for the firsttime ever and, yeah, and with
her two big sisters, who wereall confident swimmers,
confident in the sea, divingunder the waves, which made her
really confident and literallywas just desperate to get in the
sea, and that was somethingthat we hadn't seen from any of
the other girls any other yearwhere she was.
(33:21):
So I'm just going in and Ithink that's a real testament to
how we've operated as a club,how we've ensured that we're
respectful.
We don't run sessions overRamadan.
We make sure that everything isdone during sort of school
holidays so that it's easier forthe young people to get to.
We organize transport as well,because many of them don't drive
(33:44):
and often the buses here can bequite not the most reliable.
So we try to make it as as easyas possible to participate.
And what we did find last yearand this year was to actually
ensure that the boys had anoffering for the last week,
because it turned out that thatthe boys couldn't believe that
they weren't allowed to do it,because normally it's the boys
(34:04):
who get the stuff to do, andthis was totally, totally sort
of counterculture really.
So we did ensure that we ranextra sessions so that the
brothers had something to doduring the session and they got
to surf as well, and it was.
It was really empowering forthe girls to be able to do
something independently and towatch their brothers do
(34:25):
something independently.
Sue Anstiss (34:26):
It was, yeah, it was really amazing you mentioned
there the sort of therapeuticbenefit of surfing and I'm
really fascinated.
I know you've done otherprograms with women who've been
impacted by domestic abuse, sowhy do you feel surfing can have
such a positive impact on onmental health?
Yvette Curtis (34:43):
firstly, you're out in nature, which is
fantastic, you know you'resurrounded by the natural sounds
and smells and fields of thenatural world, so that
immediately just has a sense ofcalming.
But particularly with being inthe ocean or any body of water,
essentially, but in thisinstance, talking about surfing,
it's's so present.
(35:05):
You cannot be thinking aboutconversations or the lawyers or
the shopping list or the kids orthe, because you're too
concerned with like is that wavecoming?
Am I gonna have to just move myboard?
Do I have to do this?
And it's, and it justcompletely clears your mind,
other than what you're focusingon.
But also, like water, has thiswonderful, like weird quality of
(35:26):
where it just makes you feellike you can talk.
And it's not like being sat ina therapy room where you're
going there specifically to havethis conversation and you know
it's going to be challenging.
But you're there carrying aboard with a woman that you've
never really met and you don'tknow if you'll see them again.
And suddenly you can just havethis conversation about stuff
(35:50):
that you may not have spokenabout for a really, really long
time, if ever, because you feelthat you're in a really
different space and it's reallyhard to describe it.
But I remember, in particularwith the surf therapy with the
women in refuge, we were doingan exercise and we quite often
do an exercise where you tapyour throat and you go.
You know, I use my voice.
And I remember you know one oneof the women found that really
(36:11):
challenging and and I think itwas it was in in relation to
sort of something that happened.
So we said, look, tap yourshoulders and you know, let's
use your voice there and let'stap that bit instead.
And I remember at the end ofthe three sessions that we had
with that particular group, wedid this really fantastic act
where we yelled at the sea andjust went, I'm free, and she did
(36:34):
it.
She yelled and I remember herbecoming really emotional, just
said thank you for giving me myvoice back.
And it's things like that thatyou, you know as much as over
winter I always get quitestressed financially and go oh
my God, I really want to keeprunning the club and progress it
and do this.
I then go should it go?
Should or can I still do it?
Can it keep running?
(36:54):
And I then go back through thiswhole repertoire of stuff in my
head.
Or I go to a session and I seethe girls and I watch them, you
know, jumping around and givingme hugs and stuff, and I'm like,
yeah, of course this club can'tnot be here.
This is just like it's magicwhen you get to witness it
firsthand and see it.
You know, no matter how sort ofmuch things I've got on my
(37:16):
to-do list, you know it's anabsolute tonic when you go
through like a session or whenyou think back to someone who's
who said such incredible thingsthat, yeah, I just it's really
hard for me to put into wordsthe power of surf therapy and
the power of the ocean when itcomes to, you know, resilience
and rehab and where have youfound the funding for this
(37:37):
incredible activity?
Sue Anstiss (37:38):
you know historically and moving forwards
too?
Yvette Curtis (37:41):
Historically, we've had funding from our local
sort of Fullerbrook, which is awind farm.
We've had funding from theNational Lottery on two
occasions and we've had fundingfrom the Opening Up the Outdoors
initiative, of which I'm sortof a graduate of their cohort,
and we got funding with the endof that program.
We've also got private fundersthat support certain programs as
(38:06):
well.
We have had private fundersthat have supported our surf
therapy with domestic abuse forsort of their own personal
reasons.
Again, it's winter now, sowe're currently in that frantic
I say we I'm currently in thatfrantic bid writing phase of
sort of you know, what can wesecure for 2025?
And it's, you know it's agrassroots organization, it's a
(38:27):
CIC nonprofit.
So you know, like everybody inthese boats, you do these
passion projects and you justyou hope somebody else sees the
value in them and helps supportthat.
But it's ultimately done out oflove and regardless of sort of
the funding and the not, we justlimit and we would just run it
to our means, which, at themoment, as long as the coaches
(38:49):
get paid, that's fine.
I don't need to take any moneyout of there.
But you know, it would be niceat some point to see it grow.
But for me, I think the impactthat we have, I just I would
find a way to keep it goingregardless of anything else,
it's too, I else it's too.
I think it's too important andI think we've.
You know, we've been going foreight years and I can't count
(39:11):
the amount of sort of peoplewe've probably interacted with
and had such a positive impacton, and that makes me incredibly
proud.
Sue Anstiss (39:18):
And is there an ambition to to do more and to
expand it further?
And do you talk to other surfregions across the country that
might want to emulate whatyou've done?
Yeah, we do.
Yvette Curtis (39:29):
We've wanted to grow and I think we'd want to be
able to offer more.
We've done initiatives, youknow.
Interestingly, in Bristol,we've also done things in
Cornwall before At the Wave.
Yeah, the Wave is an inlandsurfing lake, sort of created,
purpose built, for surfing.
You know, people have verydifferent feelings on whether
they like them or don't likethem, whether they want to surf
(39:50):
in nature or or sort of in a, ina sort of swimming pool, and
it's really, you know, I thinkit's it's opening up access to
surfing in a differentenvironment and a different way.
I think, you know it has itsown barriers as well as the
ocean has its own barriers.
I think inland surf lakes alsohave their barriers.
So I think it's just apreference on there.
(40:11):
But we have historically runevents there as well.
Again, because you're in thecenter of Bristol, so
demographic-wise you should havea lot of demographics that can
engage with surfing, but thatdoesn't seem to be being the
case at the moment.
So that that was kind of why wegot involved.
But in terms of us, our growth,it would be really nice to
(40:33):
expand and go further and, youknow, go to different coastlines
.
You know, and I think we are inthat process.
We found you know we're lookingat trailers that have got
boards and stuff and to makethat more accessible and more
easy for us to do.
You know, running more eventswould be fantastic.
Our competition has been agreat success over the past four
(40:53):
years and I think that's onething that we'll continue to
grow and do, because it's just,you know it's been, I think, we
lead it as the mostuncompetitive competition that
you'll find.
Sue Anstiss (41:06):
I love that, I love that and like just even just
your being there and my beingaware of your existing and
female surfing, et cetera.
I think you know there's animpact just through the
awareness of what you're doingtoo.
But are you, have you seen ashift?
Are there?
I'm not sure how much thesethings are measured and tracked,
but in terms of femaleparticipation in surfing beyond
the work that you're doing inCroyd, A hundred percent.
Yvette Curtis (41:28):
Yeah yeah, when we started eight years ago we
were the only club.
We were only probably one oftwo clubs in the entire
Southwest.
I think it was probably us andNewquay Women's Surf Club maybe
at that point.
And now I think if you lookaround, I could probably list at
least 10.
Excellent, so I think just fromthat alone that shows the
growth and that shows the need.
Sue Anstiss (41:52):
That's so good to hear I was going to mention.
You've obviously beenshortlisted for lots of awards
and I think that's also reallyimportant.
It's getting you in theawareness of people within the
sporting and wider sector.
I know quite recently, as Imentioned in the intro, you were
shortlisted for Community Clubof the year in the gender
category for the nationaldiversity awards.
But how does it feel to beshortlisted?
I know the Sunday Times awardsis where I kind of first came
across you, as it were, in 2019,but I sense from your uh, how
(42:15):
humble you are that it's notsomething that you're chasing,
but I think that profiledefinitely has an impact and
raises awareness for females insurfing yeah, it's really, it's
really funny because I alwaysfind it a bit um, like it's I
find it really difficult to talkabout and be like, oh my god,
yes, I've done this and I'vedone that because I'm not, yeah,
I'm not that sort of person tokind of.
Yvette Curtis (42:37):
You know, when you list things, I'm like, oh my
god, this person soundsincredible and then just go, oh
my god, no, that's me.
And I like, and I find thatreally quite challenging because
I'm just not that, yeah, I'mjust not that person.
So when these award nominationscome up, it's just like, it's
so overwhelming in just I can'tbelieve people are taking notice
of what we do.
(42:58):
You know, and I listened tosome of the nominations,
particularly with the SundayTimes one.
I listened to a few of thenominations that Peter and I was
just in floods of tears, youknow, I just when I'm sort of
faced with the reasons peoplelove us and you know and want to
support what we do, it's just,you know, some of that stuff you
just don't hear in a sessionand you're like, wow, that
(43:20):
really that's what you wanted,and yeah, and it's really quite,
it's quite emotional to sit andlisten to it and and then you
know, obviously, the, thenational diversity awards a
couple of weeks ago was anincredibly big event.
I was totally unprepared for,for sort of the magnitude of it.
It was just so like, it wasjust so five star.
(43:43):
I was like, wow, this isamazing.
We're in this big.
You know, it's all just reallyreally cool and just full of
amazing people doing amazingthings and and it's just yeah,
god, we're just this little surfclub and you know that started
from, you know, the southwest,and I just find it insane that
we're suddenly on this stage.
But you know, I remember justsaying to people I was like I
can't believe we're here andthis stage.
But you know, I remember justsaying to people I was like I
(44:05):
can't believe we're here and I'mso proud of everyone who surfed
with us, coached for us everysingle week, in, week out, all
the parents that stand on thebeach and driving rain and you
know, and those communities thathave just come into the UK that
have trusted us with theirchildren.
I just, yeah, I'm so humbled bythat and to get us on such a
(44:26):
huge stage to talk about what wedo and just for people to be
aware of us is just anincredible thing and I think
what was probably my favoritebit about the awards in
particular was I remember goingto the Sunday Times Award and
that was with my then daughter,aaliyah, and I said it's really
important we go together becausethis wouldn't be here without
(44:48):
you.
And then, when we went to theNational Diversity Awards, I
remember saying the same thing.
I remember saying Aidan, Ithink we need to go together
because none of this would behere if it wasn't for you.
And I remember we went togetherand it was just so incredible
to be there with my son andthere were so many sort of
gender expansive people therewho were doing amazing things in
(45:11):
terms of LGBTQIA plus, and himgetting to meet those people and
him feeling safer in his ownskin than he probably has done,
you know, in a really long time,was just magical for me.
Getting it to share with Aidanon both of those occasions.
That's why the club exists,that's why we do what we do, and
the fact that it's now enabledus to look and enabled him to
(45:35):
run a transgender youth sessionyeah, it was amazing.
Trans and non-binary youth inour local area was what a joy to
be able to support your son todo something like that in a
space that is definitely notusually represented by
communities like his.
That's beautiful.
Sue Anstiss (45:52):
You're now also working for Surfers Against
Sewage.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about the organisation and
your role there?
Yvette Curtis (46:00):
Yeah, definitely so.
I'm the Equity, Diversity andInclusion Manager at SAS Surf
Against Sewage.
I've been there for a year anda half now and it's been really
interesting to work within thatsector.
I've always been reallypassionate obviously since the
surf club about the ocean andabout ocean health.
Prior to that, probably not somuch, I probably didn't think
(46:23):
about my day-to-day activitiesand how I am affecting the ocean
because I was so far away fromit.
But the past eight years havedefinitely taught me a lot about
the importance of preservingthat life source.
And then the opportunity came upwithin SAS.
So I applied and it's beenamazing to learn about that.
(46:44):
So I applied and it's beenamazing to learn about that.
But I think the reason it'sbeen so relevant is because the
barriers to surfing and surfculture and the ocean are really
similar barriers to then oceanadvocacy, conservation and
activism.
They work together so well interms of how I work and how I
think and my beliefs that youknow with Wahine's, the wider
(47:06):
picture to kind of becomeconnected to your ocean by sport
and by access into surfing.
That access into surfing thenenables you to care about the
water, to care about the ocean.
Then how?
How can you go about preservingit and advocating for it and
all those things.
So it's just they're sosymbiotic as, as a pair of
things to work with, that I just, yeah, I see them like
(47:29):
barrier-wise they're reallysimilar, but also just in terms
of the growth I think they'rejust a perfect partnership.
So I've been really lucky tokind of work within that sector
now.
Sue Anstiss (47:44):
If you'd like to hear from more amazing
trailblazers like Yvette.
There are over 200 episodes ofa game changes podcast that are
all free to listen to on podcastplatforms or from our website
at fearlesswomencouk.
Along with other entrepreneurslike Yvette, there are elite
athletes, coaches, broadcasters,scientists, journalists and
(48:07):
CEOs all women who are changingthe game in sport.
As well as listening to all thepodcasts on the website, you
can also find out more about theWomen's Sport Collective, a
free, inclusive community forall women working in sport.
We now have over eight and ahalf thousand global members, so
please do come and join us.
(48:27):
The whole of my book Game On theUnstoppable Rise of Women's
Sport is also free to listen toon the podcast.
Every episode of Series 13 isme reading a chapter of the book
.
Thank you once again to SportEngland for backing the Game
Changers and the Women's SportCollective through a National
Lottery Award, and to Sam Walkerat what Goes On Media, who does
(48:48):
such a superb job as ourexecutive producer.
Thank you also to my lovelycolleague at Fearless Women,
kate Hannan.
You can find the Game Changerson all podcast platforms, so do
follow us now and you won't missout on future episodes.
Come and say hello on socialmedia, where you'll find me at
(49:11):
Sue Anstis.
The Game Changers Fearlesswomen in sport.
Hello and welcome to The Game Changers.
I'm Sue Anstiss, and this isthe podcast where you'll hear
from trailblazing women in sportwho are knocking down barriers
and challenging the status quofor women and girls everywhere.
What can we learn from theirjourneys as we explore key
issues around equality in sportand beyond?
I'd like to start with a bigthank you to our partners, Sport
(00:24):
England, who support The GameChangers podcast through a
national lottery award.
I'm excited to say that in this, the 18th series of The Game
Changers, I'll be talking tofounders and entrepreneurs, the
women who have set uporganisations that help change
the landscape for all women andgirls in sport.
(00:47):
In today's episode, I'm talkingto Yvette Curtis, the founder of
Wave Wahines, a female surfingclub that has supported hundreds
of women and girls coming intothe sport, along with running
surf therapy with women livingin refuge, sessions for
resettled young female refugees,collaborations with the Queer
Surf Club, the first trans andnon-binary youth surf session,
(01:11):
and hosting the first UK femalefocused surf session, which is
now an annual event.
There's huge recognition andcelebration for Yvette's work,
and just this month, the clubwas shortlisted for the
Community Club of the Year inthe gender category of the
National Diversity Awards.
So, Yvette, let's start bytalking about beautiful Croyde
(01:36):
in North Devon, where you live,and obviously being by the sea
is amazing, but has that alwaysbeen a part of your life, living
by the sea?
Yvette Curtis (01:44):
Wow.
Well, firstly, thank you forthat introduction.
That was spectacular.
I wasn't prepared for that atall.
Wow Gosh, we've done quite alot, haven't we?
It's always quite stunning whensomeone sort of puts a massive
summary together, goodness.
But in answer to your question,I have not always been in
Croyde.
I've lived in North Devon forthe past 15 years I think now.
(02:05):
I actually grew up in Bristoland spent all my formative years
growing up in a city, basicallyin a suburb of Bristol, so not
sort of city central.
So being by the beach wassomething we did, maybe a couple
of times a year on holidaywithin the UK, but also my dad's
from Mauritius .
(02:28):
So we were fortunate enough totravel back to Mauritius for
family holidays.
So I occasionally got to samplethat, but never really spent
much time by the coastline upuntil I took the decision to
move here.
Sue Anstiss (02:38):
And will you stay there forever?
You think the sea's a placethat you'll need to be forever
in the future.
Yvette Curtis (02:43):
I think so.
Yeah, whether it's Croyde orwhether it's, you know, south of
the border down into Cornwall,or whether it's somewhere
overseas, I think I'll alwaysneed to be, you know, fairly
close to being by the ocean.
Yeah, definitely.
Sue Anstiss (02:57):
And it's through your children that much of your
work started with Wave Wahinez.
But how was sport a part ofyour life growing up as a young
girl in Bristol?
Yvette Curtis (03:06):
For me it's just been always part of who I am.
I went to an all-girls schoolas a teenager and my favourite
teacher was my PE teacher, MrsSeeley.
I still remember her, you know,and she has shaped everything I
think I've done sport-wise.
I think she was reallymotivational and saw a lot of
(03:26):
talent that I maybe didn't seeat the time.
So I became captain of quite afew of the sports clubs.
I played netball throughout myentire sort of school career.
I was captain, I played centre.
So I was quite a competitiveyoung woman at that point and
won sort of trophies on sportsday.
So for me sport was justeverything.
(03:48):
It was part of who I was.
I wasn't hugely academic,although I did fairly well in my
exams, but it certainly wasn'twhere I put my focus.
So I'm always grateful to MrsSeely for what she did.
I remember I think my dad foundmy gosh.
I'm going to give out my agenow, my record of achievement
from school, and in that recordof achievement as a I must have
(04:09):
been 15, I suppose I'd put inthere that I was always going to
work in sport and I was goingto change the world by being
sporty, and I was just like.
I read it as a maybe four yearsago, so 40, and read it and I
was so stunned by that sentenceand thought, my goodness, wow,
I'm not sure I'm changing theworld by sport.
(04:30):
I'm definitely in it.
Sue Anstiss (04:31):
Yeah, I think you are.
I think you definitely are.
I love that.
I love that looking back andfinding it too, and in terms of
the outdoors and physicalactivity, obviously netball and
team sports and so on but whendid that start, almost that love
of outdoors that was intocollege.
Yvette Curtis (04:54):
So I went to college in Bristol to do my
A-levels and one of the reasonsI chose the college I chose,
which was Filton, was becausethey had this incredible outdoor
pursuits program that you couldrun alongside your A-levels.
It was classes like an A-levelrelated, so you then gained
qualifications in climbing, inkayaking, in powerboat, sort of
licensing, all of those things.
So you got to do that alongsideyour A-level courses.
(05:17):
So I picked that college sothat I could actually continue
with sport in a really differentway and funnily enough I was in
the same outdoor pursuits classas Jenny Jones, obviously now
famous Olympic snowboarder.
So we were friends at collegeand sort of went on the same
trips and stuff.
And I remember it was the dryslope skiing that we did at
(05:37):
college as a group thatcompletely put me off because I
fell over and really hurt myselfand I was like, oh my gosh,
skiing and stuff and snow is notfor me.
And I remember that was theyear that Jenny went on the
overseas trip and then made thedecision that that was what her
career was going to be.
Sue Anstiss (05:55):
Oh wow.
And I'd seen some socialactually of her coming down to
and we're going to come and talkabout your activity.
But I've seen her, so I've madethat connection now of her
coming down and being asupporter of all you're doing
now as well too.
All those years on.
That's lovely isn't?
Yvette Curtis (06:09):
it.
Yeah, because she she wasalways a surfer as well, having
grown up sort of in Cornwall and, and so, yeah, she came down
and being friends, she became acaptain for one of our sort of
contests and, again, just supersupportive, got in with the
girls, did a bit of coachingwith them and just a bit of
mentoring and yeah, it's reallylovely when you get sort of
friends like that who are justreally keen to support something
(06:30):
that's so grassrootsy.
It's really, yeah, it's reallylovely and it's really
incredible for the girls becausethey're so like, so starstruck
when when people like sort ofJenny or Laura will come along
to sessions, and it's justpretty, pretty magical that
we've got the ability to do that.
Sue Anstiss (06:45):
That's lovely, but you didn't pursue sport as a
career, although I do believeyou later became a personal
trainer.
So how did that kind oftransition from your original
career to personal training yeah?
Yvette Curtis (06:57):
it was really different.
Actually, I think life happened.
I left home really young, movedout when I was sort of just
before I was 18.
So finished college whilstliving outside of the house.
So I think that became quite achallenge and sort of just fell
into a very different pattern oflife.
I think that took me away fromeducation, took me away from
(07:17):
sports, and then I actually hadmy first child when I was 22.
First child when I was 22.
So then it just became allabout sort of them and looking
after them and being able towork and do all those things
that should maintaining anotherhuman involve.
So, yeah, it was reallydifferent and I'd occasionally
do aerobics classes with mygirlfriends, but then I actually
(07:39):
got.
It was actually my divorce thatthrew me back into sport.
I found running was reallycathartic and going through a
divorce was pretty challenging.
So I found that running wasjust this amazing way of
switching off and just focusingon sort of me and just being
really really free mentally andended up, actually I think the
(08:00):
year I did sort of the divorcecame through, I ran my first
marathon Wow, wow, yeah, andnever, never really looked back
from there.
So I sort of realized at thatpoint that you know, sport was
just completely in me, retrainedwork-wise to be a personal
trainer and and yeah, and thatwas kind of the start of where I
(08:21):
am now, because it just I cansee the impact it has on people
and I think if you have a sport,it doesn't matter what it is
and no matter what level youplay at or what level you do it
and pursue it.
I think as long as you havesomething that is physical and
active in your life, I thinkit's so grounding for everything
else.
Sue Anstiss (08:39):
And so how did Way for Heenis start so kind of
moving you out running marathonsand being a personal trainer?
But?
But how did Wave Wahine startso kind of moving you out
running marathons and being apersonal trainer?
But how did it initiate?
And where did the name comefrom as well too.
What does the name mean?
Yvette Curtis (08:50):
Well, wahine is a Polynesian word which basically
just means female, femalesurfer primarily.
So obviously we wanted tomaintain that connection to
Polynesian roots so we just wentwith Wave Wahine.
It just seemed the perfect fit.
And, yeah, I think it's theperfect name for it because I
did a lot of reading around sortof surfing and its heritage and
(09:12):
its culture and very muchwanted to ensure that we were
being true to that sort ofhistory.
So, yeah, that was where thename came from.
But the actual club came frommy eldest child.
At the time they were bornfemale and identified as Aaliyah
.
Now they are a trans male andidentify as Aidan.
So just to clarify that.
So we began because of a need.
(09:33):
They'd come to me and said look, mom, I really want to go
surfing.
We live by the coast.
And I thought, oh gosh, okay,it's the one thing I actually
have no concept of.
I'd had a surfing lesson aspart of my 30th bucket list year
and it was great and I reallyenjoyed it.
So totally could see the pull,but had never pursued it and
never done it any other way.
(09:54):
So I booked her a couple ofprivate lessons, loved it, but
financially that's just not afeasible thing long term.
So I mean, when you're lookingat now sort of surf lessons are
upwards of £45 for a session, soit's an expensive pastime.
So we looked at local surfclubs, surf organizations, but
you know, as I'm sure you canprobably imagine, they were
(10:15):
quite male-dominated.
Quite a lot of guys, they allknew each other, they'd all
grown up together, they all hadtheir own kit and so it just
wasn't something we couldmaintain.
And I spoke to a girlfriend ofmine, karma Worthington, who is
a former junior champion and shenow coaches actually the Team
England juniors.
So I spoke to her about thisand I said, look, you know, can
(10:35):
we do something?
Because my child can't be theonly person in this predicament?
There must be others withparents like me who don't surf,
who wouldn't know what to do andwouldn't know how to get them
started.
But you know, be others withparents like me who don't surf,
who wouldn't know what to do andwouldn't know how to get them
started.
But I have my own personaltraining business that was
really successful.
So I know how to coach and Iknow how to run a business.
I was like we can put the twotogether if you can figure out
how we can get the surfingcoaches.
(10:57):
And she was really on board.
And another female coach, liv,also came on board and we
approached our local surf school, surf Southwest, and said, look
, can we trial this and just seewhat happens?
Would you support this and howmuch would it cost?
And they were so fantastic andjust went.
Well, you can have the schoolfor free.
All the stuff can be free.
You just need to pay thecoaches.
(11:18):
So you know.
So, between myself, karma andLiv, I would just be there doing
the organizing and lots ofcheerleading and warmups and
stuff, and they would be doingthe surf coaching.
And we obviously stood the testof time.
We obviously filled a need inthe local area, because you know
, we're here eight years latergoing super strong, and of that
(11:39):
first cohort I think we maybehad probably about 10 of them
that surfed with us regularlyand of those 10, four of them
went on to become surf coachesand lifeguards themselves, and I
think that would be by andlarge because they were taught
by female coaches.
They could see there was aprogression for them.
So it has become a real cyclewithin our local community of
(12:00):
progress.
Sue Anstiss (12:01):
And how important is it?
Do you think that kind ofnon-competitive element of
participating in the sport too,isn't it?
I do so much on the pathway andwhere you are on an England
pathway or a GB pathway, butactually when I've looked at
some of the work that you'vedone, it's just that pure joy of
sport and participating, and doyou think that was an important
element in its growth too?
Yvette Curtis (12:21):
A hundred percent .
Yeah, we always started theclub with the sort of ethos that
it was based on fun.
It was all based on play.
It wasn't based on who's caughtthe best waves, who stood up
the most, who's you know youcould go on, it was phones, with
you know all the pressure to bethis perfect thing, that
(12:49):
actually just being allowed tojust do whatever you want and
have, you know, salty hair snotdripping out of your face and
all that stuff that comes withbeing in the sea.
It's just fun and we're areally non-judgmental
organization.
We always have a little bit ofa recap when we have new joiners
to, to be like, let's rememberyou know where we were when we
first started.
(13:09):
So let's make sure everyonefeels welcome and that's one of
the things that has paid off.
You know I've had parents say tome my child's so much more
confident now, or you knowthey're having issues at school
and coming to the club hasreally allowed them to to sort
of escape those issues thatthey're having.
So it's been.
You know, it's been really,really important to us that it
is focused on the fun element.
(13:31):
But equally, you know, kids arekids and there's moments where
you know we've had parents goactually this happened and we've
had to take that with ourcoaches and say, look, here's
the moment that we need toeither make sure that all of our
young people are workingtogether and just explain to
them why it's really importantthat you know anything that's
happening at school it doesn'tboil over into our club.
(13:52):
Our club is where we're alltogether, we're in the sea.
It's, you know, it's adangerous place if you don't
respect it.
So, yeah, we are really carefulwith how we interact with the
girls that surf with us and makesure that they all feel welcome
that surf with us and make surethat they all feel welcome.
Sue Anstiss (14:06):
And I think if I ask anyone what we would think
of a typical surfer, it'sprobably a blonde, white,
athletic young man would be thekind of image that's conjured up
.
So I'm really interested hasthat always been the case?
When we look back?
You mentioned that kind ofPolynesian history, but in terms
of where surfing came from andhow it's grown, is that what we
would see across the world?
That look and feel of a male?
Yvette Curtis (14:28):
surfing.
Yeah, that's definitely theimage that has now put out there
.
Obviously that image is nowalso translated into the
feminine, but that that stuffwould still, by and large you
would think of someone who isblonde, athletic, petite, tan,
beautiful, all of those things.
But historically it was notthat.
Historically, obviously it'sgot roots in Polynesia.
(14:48):
There'll also be rootshistorically in the African
continent.
So those are communities thataren't white.
Those are definitelycommunities of color,
particularly when we're talkingabout the Polynesian side.
It was a sport for all people,it was a pastime of queens,
kings to everybody else.
You know it wasn't somethingthat had this massive hierarchy
(15:09):
about it.
But then, as in a lot of thesemoments, then colonization
happens and missionaries arrive,and missionaries come to say
actually, what you're doing,it's wrong, especially for women
to be doing it, because they'renot wearing very many clothes
because're in Hawaii actually,so it's probably quite warm, so
(15:29):
they don't need to be in starchand cotton like the missionaries
would have then put them in.
So it was definitely an act ofcolonialism that then almost
wiped out surfing.
You then had princes that didcontinue that tradition of
watercraft and and they traveledand took surfing to various
parts of the globe.
(15:49):
At that point, the UK being oneof them.
I think the first place wasmaybe Bridport, where we had two
Hawaiian princes that surfedhere.
So it did manage to stay withinthat Hawaiian culture.
But then when it wastransferred to other continents
it completely lost that identity.
So it was then almost madeextinct by colonialism and then
(16:12):
taken away by Western sort ofcommunity and civilization and
almost repackaged and repurposedand curated into what we see
today.
You know it went through itsobvious stage in the 70s and 80s
and early 90s of just massivemisogyny.
It was very much amale-dominated sport and the
(16:32):
only females that you'd getwould be in bikinis, kind of
watching their boyfriend surfing.
And then the females that didstart surfing were definitely in
the minority and probablysuffered rather a lot.
You know there's an amazingfilm called Girls Can't Surf
which focused on that period inthe 90s where you know, women
were definitely ostracized fromthe community.
(16:54):
The bikini contest, you know,got more money than the women's
sort of surfers.
They got put out in theterrible waves and that's kind
of what has become the image ofthe surf sector and surf culture
today and that's why, you know,there's clubs like ours and
there's clubs across the, therest of the UK and globally,
that are kind of standing up andgoing.
(17:15):
But that's not.
That's not what surfing was allabout, and it's not what it's
about and it's not who shouldonly have access to it.
So, yeah, I think it's reallyimportant that we, we learn from
that history and we actually'reactually really connected to it
, because it wasn't the imagethat we've sort of had, nicely
packaged up and given to us nowkind of came across you and all
the work that you were doing.
Sue Anstiss (17:48):
But you did a piece for BBC Spotlight about the
lack of diversity in surfing andhighlighting issues around
access and inclusion andrepresentation, and what was the
response to your calling thatout within the surfing community
?
Yvette Curtis (17:59):
Yeah, that was pretty unpleasant.
It was quite heavily trolled,millions of little
microaggressions thrown in there, of no one stopping them going
in the water.
You know, there's no signs andI'm like, well, actually, until
really recently there were signsin America saying like no
blacks on this beach.
So that's, you know, that'strue and untrue anyway.
Yeah, so it was quiteunpleasant for me to kind of
(18:22):
witness and I did sort of takestock of.
You know, do I want to reallybe challenging this and do I
want to be talking about it?
Because it's really heavilyemotional for me to have to read
that stuff.
It's emotional for my kids toread it.
You know, my eldest, obviously,you know, was a lot older then,
so is on social media, can seewhat people are saying.
So, yeah, it becomes like abigger thing.
(18:45):
Then, you know, am I puttingputting my family in a position
that they haven't asked to beput in.
And I sat down sort of speakingto my dad and my mum about this
and and they sort of just said,you know, look, we've had abuse
for all our lives, being, youknow, a mixed heritage couple,
but when we were growing up orwhen we were sort of a couple
new, it was kind of accepted,you know, like racism was just.
(19:09):
It probably wasn't just calledracism, it was just how you
treat people who aren't white.
And my dad said now the law ison your side.
You know you're allowed to saythis stuff, you're allowed to
challenge it, and you know Ithink it's great.
He said look, we're here, sataround having fish and chips,
talking about race.
This is fantastic.
So this would never happen.
When I was sort of my age, atbeing what?
(19:30):
40.
At that time, having thatconversation around a table
wouldn't have existed.
It just would be somethingthat's brushed under the carpet.
So I think it would have been.
Really I couldn't have notstood up about it at that point,
because then I was like well,actually my dad wasn't able to,
and I am and and I'm going toshow my children that, that you
don't have to accept that andthat that's not right and you
(19:52):
can't just let people bully youbecause of you know something
that is unchangeable, like thecolor of my skin.
So that's kind of why we wedecided to continue with it and
and I'm really glad we did youknow it's not been without its
challenges, but I'm really gladwe did.
You know it's not been withoutits challenges, but I'm really
comfortable that I can sleep atnight with what we've done.
Sue Anstiss (20:09):
That's excellent to hear, isn't it?
But it's weird, isn't it, thatwhole have a surf community, but
just how communities get sodefensive about it.
I spoke to SabrinaPace-Humphreys on the Game
Changers podcast as well, too,and she talked about the vitriol
and the backlash that she'dfaced when calling out like a
diversity where she lived and inthe outdoor running space.
So I just wonder, why do youthink that is that there's
(20:31):
almost a truth of it, because itis the truth.
It makes people so angry anddefensive about their sport or
their area.
Yvette Curtis (20:38):
Honestly, it's such a big question and I think
it's really hard to answer, butI think I don't think it's
anything well most of the time.
I don't think it's really hardto answer, but I think I don't
think it's anything well.
Most of the time I don't thinkit's anything malicious.
Obviously, you know, some of itis out and out racism, but I
think a lot of the time it'salmost.
People don't want to be callednames, they don't want to be
called something and if you'resaying this particular thing,
(21:00):
whether it's, you know, and itclearly is right you know there
is a lack of representationwithin certain sports and
certain activities and and Ithink people maybe get this
feeling that you're calling thema racist, you're calling them a
name and it's like no, that'snot what I'm doing.
I'm saying this sport isn'trepresentative of the world we
live in.
(21:21):
I'm not saying this sport isthis, you are this, yeah, yeah,
and I think that's it.
I do think people think you're,you're saying they're this
really wrong and awful thing,but it's not that case and, yeah
, I think maybe that's whypeople get so, so defensive.
But also, people don't likemirrors, you know.
You don't like to look at itand go gosh, have I been
complicit in this by not sayingsomething.
(21:42):
There's also.
There's also that edge to it aswell, so so I think it's a
really big question, probablymassively multilayered.
Sue Anstiss (21:50):
Yeah, it's fascinating and, as you say and
as your dad said over the fishand chips, good that we are
talking about it and havingthose conversations today too.
I feel from the outside ofhaving seen you on interviews
and panels and podcasts, youalways seem very calm and gentle
in your approach to thesediscussions.
So is that the case and how hasthat been for you?
Yvette Curtis (22:12):
Well, thank you for saying that.
That's really nice.
I'm really glad that this isbeing recorded so I can play it
back to my husband and go look,see, I am really calm, fantastic
.
And honestly, I haven't alwaysbeen this way.
I really haven't.
I've been quite reactive, Iwould say, and definitely
(22:36):
probably respond before I shouldhave done, and then I'll
respond in something that'sreally really argumentative and
really combative.
So I think this has been like areal lesson that has just come
with age and has come also withhow I don't like being spoken to
.
You know, for me, if someone'sshouting and waving their fists
at me and getting really in myface, then I tend to just go
(22:59):
well, I'm not even going todiscuss it with you because you
can't hold a conversation.
So I think I've now gotten tosort of that stage where I just
I'd rather sit back, absorb theinformation and then sort of
come back with a discussionpoint, and so I think it's just.
I just don't think I'm going toget the right outcome for what
I want if I'm shouting atsomebody or being really, really
(23:22):
aggressive and it's not in mynature.
I'm not a massively aggressiveperson, although my kids would
say when I play ocean bingo.
I'm incredibly aggressive andcompetitive.
What's ocean bingo?
Oh, it's literally.
It's literally bingo, butyou've got ocean animals instead
, so you're pulling out loads ofdifferent animals from the
ocean.
So, yeah, we're literally thatfamily, but we love it.
(23:43):
Yeah, we've got that.
So yeah, so, so yeah.
So we do learn a lot, which isreally good, a really good way
of introducing new ocean life tothem.
But yeah, I am quitecompetitive, but I just don't
think I'm an aggressive personin how I speak to people.
I think my dad's quitesoft-spoken and quite gentle and
(24:03):
I always knew that if he hadsomething to say, I'd be in
really big trouble.
So I kind of think, actually,if you're quite mild and you're
quite you know, hopefully quitelikable and usually fairly
diplomatic in your thoughtprocess, then actually when you
do kind of go up a slight level,then people are like oh
goodness, oh goodness, what havewe done?
Yeah, absolutely.
Sue Anstiss (24:23):
And how important is it that diverse
representation, I guess in termsof gender and ethnicity, and
not kind of all areas ofdiversity in terms of the
management of sport and wherethose decisions are being made?
There's a lot of the work thatwe do in terms of female
leadership, but but howimportant is that in terms of
the work that you're doing andsurfing generally?
Yvette Curtis (24:42):
you know, I think it's really important because
people need to see that there'sa pathway for them if they want
to, you know, continue within acertain sport or a certain
sector.
And the only way that you cansee that happening is if you can
see someone that you can relateto, someone that is, you know,
resonant, resonates with you andand at the moment we don't
(25:03):
really see that very much withinother sports it's getting
better, I think it is improving,but we don't really see that
very much Within other sports.
It's getting better, I think itis improving, but we certainly
don't see it within surfing.
Gender wise, it's definitelyimproving.
You know, we've got obviouslythere's, you know, female
coaches now within the SurfingEngland Junior Squad.
We've got the GB surfingmanager is female and, yeah,
(25:26):
fantastic surfer Gwen Spurlock.
She's amazing, but again, it'sit's taken a long time and
what's been really interestingis the women that are now
certainly coming through in theUK sort of management side are
the ones that that sort of youknow, having spoken to them may
have struggled with gettingsponsorship because they didn't
feel that that cookie cutterimage that we were presented
(25:47):
with.
Yet they stood the test of time.
They're still here and now theyare at the upper echelons of
our sport and, and I thinkthat's something that, you know,
they should be really proud ofand it's definitely something
that our girls get to look up to, and I just, yeah, I think
there needs to be more womengoing into those fields within
(26:08):
the surfing sector, because itis it's so great to be a part of
, but you know, it's a challenge, like anything, but if you love
it, you love it and it is lifechanging.
Sue Anstiss (26:17):
As you say, we need those women in the rooms and
making those decisions too,don't we?
Yvette Curtis (26:21):
Yeah, I did no-transcript.
(26:58):
We're far away away from it in2022.
Sue Anstiss (27:02):
you wrote a fantastic report about surfing
and diversity, and I'll share alink to it in the show notes for
the podcast too, because it wasjust really interesting.
I learned so much in readingthat.
So I guess why did you writethat report?
Because they take work tocreate those kind of things too,
and I guess, has it had impact?
What have you kind of found theresponse to it has been.
Yvette Curtis (27:23):
Yeah, the reason I did the research in the first
place was because I couldn'tfind any.
I couldn't find any figures,particularly in response to sort
of UK surfing and sort of whatit's like over here, and there
didn't seem to be any happeningwithin sort of our governance
structures.
So I think I just got reallytired of waiting and just went
(27:45):
oh, how hard can it be?
Turns out quite hard.
I was really lucky enough to bepart of a group of sort of the
Committee for Women SurfersEurope, and on that group
there's an amazing academiccalled Rebecca Olive.
She's based in Australia andshe sort of specializes in
(28:06):
gender studies, particularlyaround water, and I sort of
bounced the idea of her andshe's like oh, my God, that's
great.
If I can help, you know, let meknow.
And I was like you know, Ican't pay, you don't you?
Firstly, and you know, andshe's a really good friend, and
I sort of put together all thequestions, sent them to her to
proofread, then just sort ofcame back with with her
(28:27):
suggestions and experience andand then we just put it out and
you know, when sort of thequestions came back, I remember
thinking, god, she's gonnaabsolutely hate me because I
just put everything in an excelspreadsheet and just went there
you go, don't really know whatto do with that now and she was
just phenomenal the way she sortof found the threads of and I'm
(28:48):
like God.
This is why, like, research isjust a completely different
animal because it was amazinghow she pulled that stuff out.
So she sent me then the keytakeaways and sort of the stats
I still had all the raw data andthen just put together the
report that we put together, gether to have a look at it and
then just sort of you know,double check that I had pulled
out the right information.
(29:08):
And that was when that wentlive and I think you know it's
been two years.
So I think we're due to beputting together another one
before the end of this year sowe can then see whether it's
changed.
We didn't have much responsefrom within governance.
We had a lot of response fromour community, from the surfing
(29:29):
community and from thenon-surfing community going God.
This is why we haven't tried itbefore.
I think it was really worthdoing.
I think now, when we recreateit and see how we've moved on,
we'll probably add slightlydifferent questions in addition
to what we have slightlydifferent questions in addition
to what we have.
So we've still got that sort ofbaseline of knowledge.
(29:49):
But it was yeah, it was justborn out of a absolute need for
data, because you can't get anyinformation unless you know
where you're starting from, andthere was no starting point
within UK surfing.
So I thought, well, instead ofwaiting, let's just do it.
And because I'm, you know,independent, I'm just me I
didn't have to have anyconstraints of other people
(30:09):
saying, well, you can't ask thatwe're trying to structure the
information this way, we'retrying to present it this way.
I could just be like well, I'mjust doing it.
I don't have any agenda ormotives or have to get a certain
result out of it, I can just behonest.
Sue Anstiss (30:26):
I can just be honest Excellent.
That's really good to hear,isn't it?
And then to see the impact thatmight have moving forward too.
I'd like to ask, if I can,about some of the programs that
you've run with Wave Wahinez.
I know you've done somefantastic work with Syrian
refugees within the North Devonarea, so can you tell us a
little bit more about that, Iguess, and the impact that
that's had too?
Yvette Curtis (30:43):
Yeah, that has been so lovely to have done that
.
And again that came out of thediscussion around the lack of
diversity within surfing and wesort of said you know, look, we
are running these programs,they're fully funded.
And interestingly, the groupthat came back to us were a
group of sort of resettledSyrian refugees and to us that
(31:05):
was probably not the demographicwe thought would happen,
because I had no idea we hadsuch a large number of resettled
families in North Devon.
I knew we had a couple, butyeah, it was really interesting
and obviously that then addeddifferent elements to how we
looked at handling that SURFprogram.
They were obviously they'recoming from war.
(31:26):
Handling that surf program.
They were obviously they'recoming from from war.
They're coming from interimsort of refugee camps.
Potentially, you know,different housing, language,
culture, trauma, all of thosethings are are suddenly in
addition to to what we hadlooked at.
So for us it was just like,okay, this is, this is brilliant
(31:47):
.
We're definitely going to workwith this community.
It would be fantastic.
But how do we then manage thatfor them safely and making sure
that they get what they want toget out of it?
So we ensured that it was onlyfemale-led staff.
We spoke to their parents.
We really reassured them thatthrough an interpreter.
This was that we would ensurethat it was only women on site
(32:10):
at the time.
They would have the option,obviously, to have full wetsuits
, so they wanted to wear stuffover the top.
We had access to Finisterre'ssea suit, which was made for
modesty, so we tried to makesure that they had as many
barriers removed that wepossibly could do and we had
volunteers for each young person.
So that was how we started andhow we sort of led that first,
(32:34):
that first sort of group ofyoung women, and I remember that
first sort of group we ran overmaybe two months and one of the
young people they had a littlesister who was one and a half, I
think, at that time and she wasjust a beautiful little thing
and they they didn't speak anyEnglish at that point.
And if we fast forward now tothis year, that little girl
(33:00):
surfed with us for the firsttime ever and, yeah, and with
her two big sisters, who wereall confident swimmers,
confident in the sea, divingunder the waves, which made her
really confident and literallywas just desperate to get in the
sea, and that was somethingthat we hadn't seen from any of
the other girls any other yearwhere she was.
(33:21):
So I'm just going in and Ithink that's a real testament to
how we've operated as a club,how we've ensured that we're
respectful.
We don't run sessions overRamadan.
We make sure that everything isdone during sort of school
holidays so that it's easier forthe young people to get to.
We organize transport as well,because many of them don't drive
(33:44):
and often the buses here can bequite not the most reliable.
So we try to make it as as easyas possible to participate.
And what we did find last yearand this year was to actually
ensure that the boys had anoffering for the last week,
because it turned out that thatthe boys couldn't believe that
they weren't allowed to do it,because normally it's the boys
(34:04):
who get the stuff to do, andthis was totally, totally sort
of counterculture really.
So we did ensure that we ranextra sessions so that the
brothers had something to doduring the session and they got
to surf as well, and it was.
It was really empowering forthe girls to be able to do
something independently and towatch their brothers do
(34:25):
something independently.
Sue Anstiss (34:26):
It was, yeah, it was really amazing you mentioned
there the sort of therapeuticbenefit of surfing and I'm
really fascinated.
I know you've done otherprograms with women who've been
impacted by domestic abuse, sowhy do you feel surfing can have
such a positive impact on onmental health?
Yvette Curtis (34:43):
firstly, you're out in nature, which is
fantastic, you know you'resurrounded by the natural sounds
and smells and fields of thenatural world, so that
immediately just has a sense ofcalming.
But particularly with being inthe ocean or any body of water,
essentially, but in thisinstance, talking about surfing,
it's's so present.
(35:05):
You cannot be thinking aboutconversations or the lawyers or
the shopping list or the kids orthe, because you're too
concerned with like is that wavecoming?
Am I gonna have to just move myboard?
Do I have to do this?
And it's, and it justcompletely clears your mind,
other than what you're focusingon.
But also, like water, has thiswonderful, like weird quality of
(35:26):
where it just makes you feellike you can talk.
And it's not like being sat ina therapy room where you're
going there specifically to havethis conversation and you know
it's going to be challenging.
But you're there carrying aboard with a woman that you've
never really met and you don'tknow if you'll see them again.
And suddenly you can just havethis conversation about stuff
(35:50):
that you may not have spokenabout for a really, really long
time, if ever, because you feelthat you're in a really
different space and it's reallyhard to describe it.
But I remember, in particularwith the surf therapy with the
women in refuge, we were doingan exercise and we quite often
do an exercise where you tapyour throat and you go.
You know, I use my voice.
And I remember you know one oneof the women found that really
(36:11):
challenging and and I think itwas it was in in relation to
sort of something that happened.
So we said, look, tap yourshoulders and you know, let's
use your voice there and let'stap that bit instead.
And I remember at the end ofthe three sessions that we had
with that particular group, wedid this really fantastic act
where we yelled at the sea andjust went, I'm free, and she did
(36:34):
it.
She yelled and I remember herbecoming really emotional, just
said thank you for giving me myvoice back.
And it's things like that thatyou, you know as much as over
winter I always get quitestressed financially and go oh
my God, I really want to keeprunning the club and progress it
and do this.
I then go should it go?
Should or can I still do it?
Can it keep running?
(36:54):
And I then go back through thiswhole repertoire of stuff in my
head.
Or I go to a session and I seethe girls and I watch them, you
know, jumping around and givingme hugs and stuff, and I'm like,
yeah, of course this club can'tnot be here.
This is just like it's magicwhen you get to witness it
firsthand and see it.
You know, no matter how sort ofmuch things I've got on my
(37:16):
to-do list, you know it's anabsolute tonic when you go
through like a session or whenyou think back to someone who's
who said such incredible thingsthat, yeah, I just it's really
hard for me to put into wordsthe power of surf therapy and
the power of the ocean when itcomes to, you know, resilience
and rehab and where have youfound the funding for this
(37:37):
incredible activity?
Sue Anstiss (37:38):
you know historically and moving forwards
too?
Yvette Curtis (37:41):
Historically, we've had funding from our local
sort of Fullerbrook, which is awind farm.
We've had funding from theNational Lottery on two
occasions and we've had fundingfrom the Opening Up the Outdoors
initiative, of which I'm sortof a graduate of their cohort,
and we got funding with the endof that program.
We've also got private fundersthat support certain programs as
(38:06):
well.
We have had private fundersthat have supported our surf
therapy with domestic abuse forsort of their own personal
reasons.
Again, it's winter now, sowe're currently in that frantic
I say we I'm currently in thatfrantic bid writing phase of
sort of you know, what can wesecure for 2025?
And it's, you know it's agrassroots organization, it's a
(38:27):
CIC nonprofit.
So you know, like everybody inthese boats, you do these
passion projects and you justyou hope somebody else sees the
value in them and helps supportthat.
But it's ultimately done out oflove and regardless of sort of
the funding and the not, we justlimit and we would just run it
to our means, which, at themoment, as long as the coaches
(38:49):
get paid, that's fine.
I don't need to take any moneyout of there.
But you know, it would be niceat some point to see it grow.
But for me, I think the impactthat we have, I just I would
find a way to keep it goingregardless of anything else,
it's too, I else it's too.
I think it's too important andI think we've.
You know, we've been going foreight years and I can't count
(39:11):
the amount of sort of peoplewe've probably interacted with
and had such a positive impacton, and that makes me incredibly
proud.
Sue Anstiss (39:18):
And is there an ambition to to do more and to
expand it further?
And do you talk to other surfregions across the country that
might want to emulate whatyou've done?
Yeah, we do.
Yvette Curtis (39:29):
We've wanted to grow and I think we'd want to be
able to offer more.
We've done initiatives, youknow.
Interestingly, in Bristol,we've also done things in
Cornwall before At the Wave.
Yeah, the Wave is an inlandsurfing lake, sort of created,
purpose built, for surfing.
You know, people have verydifferent feelings on whether
they like them or don't likethem, whether they want to surf
(39:50):
in nature or or sort of in a, ina sort of swimming pool, and
it's really, you know, I thinkit's it's opening up access to
surfing in a differentenvironment and a different way.
I think, you know it has itsown barriers as well as the
ocean has its own barriers.
I think inland surf lakes alsohave their barriers.
So I think it's just apreference on there.
(40:11):
But we have historically runevents there as well.
Again, because you're in thecenter of Bristol, so
demographic-wise you should havea lot of demographics that can
engage with surfing, but thatdoesn't seem to be being the
case at the moment.
So that that was kind of why wegot involved.
But in terms of us, our growth,it would be really nice to
(40:33):
expand and go further and, youknow, go to different coastlines
.
You know, and I think we are inthat process.
We found you know we're lookingat trailers that have got
boards and stuff and to makethat more accessible and more
easy for us to do.
You know, running more eventswould be fantastic.
Our competition has been agreat success over the past four
(40:53):
years and I think that's onething that we'll continue to
grow and do, because it's just,you know it's been, I think, we
lead it as the mostuncompetitive competition that
you'll find.
Sue Anstiss (41:06):
I love that, I love that and like just even just
your being there and my beingaware of your existing and
female surfing, et cetera.
I think you know there's animpact just through the
awareness of what you're doingtoo.
But are you, have you seen ashift?
Are there?
I'm not sure how much thesethings are measured and tracked,
but in terms of femaleparticipation in surfing beyond
the work that you're doing inCroyd, A hundred percent.
Yvette Curtis (41:28):
Yeah yeah, when we started eight years ago we
were the only club.
We were only probably one oftwo clubs in the entire
Southwest.
I think it was probably us andNewquay Women's Surf Club maybe
at that point.
And now I think if you lookaround, I could probably list at
least 10.
Excellent, so I think just fromthat alone that shows the
growth and that shows the need.
Sue Anstiss (41:52):
That's so good to hear I was going to mention.
You've obviously beenshortlisted for lots of awards
and I think that's also reallyimportant.
It's getting you in theawareness of people within the
sporting and wider sector.
I know quite recently, as Imentioned in the intro, you were
shortlisted for Community Clubof the year in the gender
category for the nationaldiversity awards.
But how does it feel to beshortlisted?
I know the Sunday Times awardsis where I kind of first came
across you, as it were, in 2019,but I sense from your uh, how
(42:15):
humble you are that it's notsomething that you're chasing,
but I think that profiledefinitely has an impact and
raises awareness for females insurfing yeah, it's really, it's
really funny because I alwaysfind it a bit um, like it's I
find it really difficult to talkabout and be like, oh my god,
yes, I've done this and I'vedone that because I'm not, yeah,
I'm not that sort of person tokind of.
Yvette Curtis (42:37):
You know, when you list things, I'm like, oh my
god, this person soundsincredible and then just go, oh
my god, no, that's me.
And I like, and I find thatreally quite challenging because
I'm just not that, yeah, I'mjust not that person.
So when these award nominationscome up, it's just like, it's
so overwhelming in just I can'tbelieve people are taking notice
of what we do.
(42:58):
You know, and I listened tosome of the nominations,
particularly with the SundayTimes one.
I listened to a few of thenominations that Peter and I was
just in floods of tears, youknow, I just when I'm sort of
faced with the reasons peoplelove us and you know and want to
support what we do, it's just,you know, some of that stuff you
just don't hear in a sessionand you're like, wow, that
(43:20):
really that's what you wanted,and yeah, and it's really quite,
it's quite emotional to sit andlisten to it and and then you
know, obviously, the, thenational diversity awards a
couple of weeks ago was anincredibly big event.
I was totally unprepared for,for sort of the magnitude of it.
It was just so like, it wasjust so five star.
(43:43):
I was like, wow, this isamazing.
We're in this big.
You know, it's all just reallyreally cool and just full of
amazing people doing amazingthings and and it's just yeah,
god, we're just this little surfclub and you know that started
from, you know, the southwest,and I just find it insane that
we're suddenly on this stage.
But you know, I remember justsaying to people I was like I
can't believe we're here andthis stage.
But you know, I remember justsaying to people I was like I
(44:05):
can't believe we're here and I'mso proud of everyone who surfed
with us, coached for us everysingle week, in, week out, all
the parents that stand on thebeach and driving rain and you
know, and those communities thathave just come into the UK that
have trusted us with theirchildren.
I just, yeah, I'm so humbled bythat and to get us on such a
(44:26):
huge stage to talk about what wedo and just for people to be
aware of us is just anincredible thing and I think
what was probably my favoritebit about the awards in
particular was I remember goingto the Sunday Times Award and
that was with my then daughter,aaliyah, and I said it's really
important we go together becausethis wouldn't be here without
(44:48):
you.
And then, when we went to theNational Diversity Awards, I
remember saying the same thing.
I remember saying Aidan, Ithink we need to go together
because none of this would behere if it wasn't for you.
And I remember we went togetherand it was just so incredible
to be there with my son andthere were so many sort of
gender expansive people therewho were doing amazing things in
(45:11):
terms of LGBTQIA plus, and himgetting to meet those people and
him feeling safer in his ownskin than he probably has done,
you know, in a really long time,was just magical for me.
Getting it to share with Aidanon both of those occasions.
That's why the club exists,that's why we do what we do, and
the fact that it's now enabledus to look and enabled him to
(45:35):
run a transgender youth sessionyeah, it was amazing.
Trans and non-binary youth inour local area was what a joy to
be able to support your son todo something like that in a
space that is definitely notusually represented by
communities like his.
That's beautiful.
Sue Anstiss (45:52):
You're now also working for Surfers Against
Sewage.
Can you tell us a little bitmore about the organisation and
your role there?
Yvette Curtis (46:00):
Yeah, definitely so.
I'm the Equity, Diversity andInclusion Manager at SAS Surf
Against Sewage.
I've been there for a year anda half now and it's been really
interesting to work within thatsector.
I've always been reallypassionate obviously since the
surf club about the ocean andabout ocean health.
Prior to that, probably not somuch, I probably didn't think
(46:23):
about my day-to-day activitiesand how I am affecting the ocean
because I was so far away fromit.
But the past eight years havedefinitely taught me a lot about
the importance of preservingthat life source.
And then the opportunity came upwithin SAS.
So I applied and it's beenamazing to learn about that.
(46:44):
So I applied and it's beenamazing to learn about that.
But I think the reason it'sbeen so relevant is because the
barriers to surfing and surfculture and the ocean are really
similar barriers to then oceanadvocacy, conservation and
activism.
They work together so well interms of how I work and how I
think and my beliefs that youknow with Wahine's, the wider
(47:06):
picture to kind of becomeconnected to your ocean by sport
and by access into surfing.
That access into surfing thenenables you to care about the
water, to care about the ocean.
Then how?
How can you go about preservingit and advocating for it and
all those things.
So it's just they're sosymbiotic as, as a pair of
things to work with, that I just, yeah, I see them like
(47:29):
barrier-wise they're reallysimilar, but also just in terms
of the growth I think they'rejust a perfect partnership.
So I've been really lucky tokind of work within that sector
now.
Sue Anstiss (47:44):
If you'd like to hear from more amazing
trailblazers like Yvette.
There are over 200 episodes ofa game changes podcast that are
all free to listen to on podcastplatforms or from our website
at fearlesswomencouk.
Along with other entrepreneurslike Yvette, there are elite
athletes, coaches, broadcasters,scientists, journalists and
(48:07):
CEOs all women who are changingthe game in sport.
As well as listening to all thepodcasts on the website, you
can also find out more about theWomen's Sport Collective, a
free, inclusive community forall women working in sport.
We now have over eight and ahalf thousand global members, so
please do come and join us.
(48:27):
The whole of my book Game On theUnstoppable Rise of Women's
Sport is also free to listen toon the podcast.
Every episode of Series 13 isme reading a chapter of the book
.
Thank you once again to SportEngland for backing the Game
Changers and the Women's SportCollective through a National
Lottery Award, and to Sam Walkerat what Goes On Media, who does
(48:48):
such a superb job as ourexecutive producer.
Thank you also to my lovelycolleague at Fearless Women,
kate Hannan.
You can find the Game Changerson all podcast platforms, so do
follow us now and you won't missout on future episodes.
Come and say hello on socialmedia, where you'll find me at
(49:11):
Sue Anstis.
The Game Changers Fearlesswomen in sport.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.