July 17, 2025 • 26 mins
In this special episode of The Grand Canyon Hiker Dude Show, Brian shares critical updates on the Dragon Bravo Fire that has devastated the North Rim. With the fire now at over 11,000 acres and containment still at 0%, much of the North Rim infrastructure—including the historic Grand Canyon Lodge—has been lost. Trail closures are expanding, including a 1.7-mile stretch of the North Kaibab Trail now burned to Supai Tunnel. But amidst the destruction, there's still hope—and a powerful message for hikers: don’t cancel your Canyon dreams, just adapt. Brian also introduces the new “North Rim Rising” shirts, with 100% of profits going to recovery efforts voted on by the community. Tune in for trail closures, fire behavior insights, what’s still safe, and how you can be part of the rebuild.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Zeena (00:05):
This is the Grand Canyon Hiker Dude Show presented by
Hiken. Hiking plus kinship.That's Hiken. Together, we roam.
Here's your host, my hubby, andcofounder of Heikin, Brian
Special.
Brian (00:18):
Alright. Thursday, July 17, and I I kinda can't believe
that we're sitting here stilltalking about the Dragon Bravo
fire with 0% containment. Afterthe weather we had the other
night and after, you know, allthe days that they've they've
been fighting this fire, it isstill at 0%, up to 11,012 acres
(00:42):
consumed so far on and in theNorth Rim Of The Grand Canyon.
594 personnel are on-site.Again, you know this thing
started on July 4 as a lightningcaused fire, and they were gonna
try to contain it and let it runits course and take care of the
(01:03):
the positive things that firedoes in terms of underbrush and
things like that and thinningout some of the fuel that these
fires have to burn.
And instead, the fire gotcompletely out of control,
burned down Grand Canyon Lodge,many of the historic cabins
around it, much of theinfrastructure on the North Rim,
(01:23):
and now it burns down intoRoaring Springs Canyon where
it's consumed. At last check,the best we can see is the fire
has gone all the way down toSupai Tunnel, which is 1.7 miles
below the North KaibabTrailhead. And you can see
there's a little sliver in therewhere they've got the the line
(01:44):
or at least the perimeter. Atleast it's what it shows it on
the map. Who knows if it's trueor not?
Who knows how accurate it is?But you can see that there's a
little sliver there. And basedon the map on watch duty, the
pit toilets, the building withthe pit toilets at Supai Tunnel
is safe. That's how it appearson the map. We do not know again
(02:10):
whether that would translate toreality or not.
I still have not seen a singleimage from anywhere below the
rim on North Kaibab or anywhere,so we really don't know what the
damage looks like. But, if youlook at the fire map, it does
appear that the entire upperregion of North Kaibab from the
trailhead area all the way downto Supai Tunnel has been burned
(02:32):
in in one way or the other. Andhow bad it was will probably
help determine how long we willnot have access to North Kaibab,
at least accessing it from theSouth Side. You know that the
North Rim, of course, is closedto visitor access for the rest
of 2025, so who knows when we'llbe able to access North Qaibab
(02:53):
again from the trailhead itselfby by driving it. But there is
some good news way down belowthe rim.
We've, of course, been prettystunned here about the fact that
fire has gotten into RoaringSprings Canyon, and firefighters
were taking defensive measuresaround the pump house at Roaring
(03:13):
Springs, which is betweenManzanita and Roaring Springs.
And if you start to just thinkabout that, 3,600 vertical feet
below the North Rim, five and ahalf miles from the trailhead.
Of course, the fire is notnecessarily that they're worried
about the fire following thedirection of the North Kaibab
Trail down into Roaring Springs.It's more from above, because if
(03:34):
you know where you're at whenyou're in Roaring Springs, Grand
Canyon Lodge in that area is notthat far away. It's just
basically straight up, you know,3,600 vertical feet.
So I think the the thing thatthey're most worried about is
the fire somehow spreading downinto the canyon and into the
Roaring Springs area. That hasnot happened. We do not now know
(03:57):
how close it has gotten, but RobRoy Williams talked about some
of the success stories thatfirefighters are having in
regards to the pump house.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Things are looking real good. We have had no
movement of the fire down onthat Southeast corner for the
last thirty six hours, so we'refeeling really good about how
that pump house is sitting. Wedid have crews go in a couple
days ago, create, somedefensible space and provide
some structure protection. So,we're we're feeling really
confident that that a futurethreat, to that pump house
(04:29):
station is pretty minimal. Soreally happy to report that.
Brian (04:34):
So some good news there. They also mentioned that the
fire we talked about yesterdaywas spreading to the north by a
couple of miles because of asoutherly wind. What we did find
out that they were able to putin defensive measures around the
entrance station that we allhave to drive through when we
come into the park. So they wereconcerned enough about the fire
(04:57):
spreading that far to the norththat they took some defensive
measures and, I guess, put somekind of a wrap around it, built
a lie built some lines aroundthat and other structures in the
area. So they're confident thatthose structures will stay safe
no matter what happens.
Trail closures, still the sameold ones. North And South Kaibab
(05:19):
both closed. South Kaibab andBright Angel below Havasupai
Gardens closed because of thesmoke at the bottom of the
canyon. Phantom Ranch remainsclosed as well for the same
reason. The River Trail, ofcourse, that's been closed all
year for the waterline project.
Tonto is closed between BrightAngel and South Kaibab, and all
the canyoneering routes thatstem from those trails are
(05:42):
closed as well. So nothing'sreally changed too much in the
last twenty four hours, exceptfor the size of this fire being
over 11,000 acres now, and itcontinues to grow, and it is
still at 0% containment. That isprobably the most concerning
part because I don't know howmuch there is that they are
doing or can do below the rimbecause you're talking about
(06:05):
some of the most inhospitable,dangerous terrain that a
firefighter can come acrossanywhere on the planet. So
there's only so much thatthey're gonna be able to do, so
we're just gonna have to keephoping that mother nature takes
a turn. We get some big monsoonsin there.
They don't get too much wind,and they have conditions that
are favorable for finallybringing this thing to a halt.
(06:28):
Also, this morning, I was ableto sit down for an interview
with Fox ten here in Phoenix,and I wanted to play that for
you because unlike a lot of theother interviews that I have
done, I got more than tenseconds or five seconds to say
my piece. They kinda let metalk. And honestly, I probably
(06:48):
talk too much because they endup having to cut me off here at
the end. So stay tuned for that.
But I was really grateful forthe opportunity because they let
me talk about our community andwhat you all are feeling, what
we're all feeling with losingthe ability to do our hikes, and
the self consciousness almostthat there is because of that,
(07:09):
because you know we're worriedabout. There's so many other big
things to be worried about, andwe might look at that and say,
well, who cares about our hike?And that's true, but again, we
continue to say it's okay to beupset about it. It's okay to
mourn something you've beenworking so hard for for so long.
So I was grateful that Fox tenallowed me to speak to that, and
(07:30):
here's that interview fromearlier this morning.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
When we talk about the Grand Canyon, there are some
of the smoky skies that you cansee. We're gonna bring in Brian
Special. He is he's hiked thecanyon many, many times, kind of
an expert up there, and and hejoins us this morning. Brian,
can you hear us okay?
Brian (07:48):
I sure can, guys. Thanks for having me. Hey.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Yeah. Hi, Brian. Okay. Give us a little
background on on your knowledgeof of the Grand Canyon and and
what you do on a daily basis.You're a big hiker.
Brian (07:59):
Yeah. Sure. I've been hiking the canyon since I was 13
years old, and 1986 was thefirst time that I went rim to
rim. That was back in the dayswhen you would go to the South
Rim, and you could fly on anairplane to the North Rim and
land on a dirt strip and thenget shuttled to the trailhead
and start your hike that way. Sothose days are long gone.
But for the last couple ofyears, I've hosted a podcast
(08:19):
called the Grand Canyon HikerDude Show, and we're just,
intent on helping everyone havetheir best possible experience
hiking the Grand Canyon becauseit's a bucket list hike for
Mhmm. For so many people, whichmakes this all the more all the
more devastating because it'sit's not gonna be possible for a
while.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
That speaks volumes. The fact that you have a podcast
around the hike that shows, Ithink, how many people worldwide
Brian (08:44):
Mhmm.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
Are interested in in what is this one of the seven
wonders of the world.
Brian (08:51):
I mean, it's a it's a bucket list hike. And and like
you said, it's there's a lot of,coordination that has to go into
it because of of not just theterrain, but just the logistics
because you've got the northroom and south room separated by
about 12 miles as the crowflies. But to drive from from
one room to the other, it's afour and a half hour drive Mhmm.
Which is pretty hard tocomprehend. So there's a lot
(09:11):
that goes into the shuttlingaspect and where to spend the
night and then how to do thehike and how to train for the
hike, the unique nature ofhiking the canyon where you
gotta hike downhill first for solong before you even go up.
So, yeah, there's a lot to it.There's a there's a big appetite
for it, and there's a lot ofpeople who are extremely,
extremely disappointed becausethis is right in the, you know,
in the heart of rim to rimseason, which is only for five
(09:33):
months. Because traditionally,the North Room is only open from
May 15 through October 15, sothere's a limited time when
people can do it. And now,obviously, the rest of this year
and, you know, if we're beinghonest, probably most of next
year are are out formed. So alot of people who are who are
actually, I mean, we're pickingup in our group just in
mourning.
I mean, they feel devastated.Like, they've trained so hard
(09:54):
for this and mentally preparedthemselves for this, and now
it's just kind of gone. And Ithink people feel, you know, a
little self conscious aboutworrying about their hikes when
so much other devastation hastaken place. But we tell them
it's okay. It's okay to mourn.
I mean, it's a human reactionwhen you work for something, and
then it's it's kind of takenaway from you.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
You know, I'm glad you mentioned that because I
think it's not just the peoplewho are working for it. But I
was chatting with someone who'sdone it many times and is a
photographer up there in thehigh country. And he said when
he first heard about it, becausehe has stayed at the lodge so
many times that he actuallycried. He's like, you know,
because it was a very emotionalmoment because it's a very
(10:33):
special place. Yeah.
And so, and he was heartbrokenover the fact that it was, you
know, there are questions aboutthe management of the fire and
things like that. Let me ask youthis because there's there's
some things, of course, is wetry to get everything right with
the media. It you know, try todig into the details, but you
know a lot more about this topicthan we do. We talked we were
talking about the fire on theNorth Rim, but we understand
(10:55):
some of the information that youhave is that the fire is also
inside the canyon itself. Isthat right?
Brian (11:02):
Yeah. And let let me first say that I I can
completely relate to to thatgentleman's reaction. I mean,
there have been it's it'sextremely emotional, and it's
hard to it's hard to it's kindahard to put into words, you
know, and make yourselfunderstand why you feel that way
about a place. But the North Rimis just there's something so
special and so magical and sotimeless about it. You know?
(11:25):
I always told people that thebest way to do rim to rim would
be to start on the South Rim andfinish on the North Rim because
when you get up there, yousuddenly you know, you're in
this canyon for hours and hoursand hours, and then you surface
and you're in the pines and youwalk to the lodge, and it's like
you are just in another timebecause everything at that lodge
was the same as it essentiallyhad been for almost a hundred
(11:45):
years, and that and that neverchanged. And so I just relate to
those emotional reactions thatpeople are having because I had
the same reactions. It was it'sit's a difficult thing. My wife
and I were just there foropening day on May 15. That's
the last last time we were upthere, and you you just I I
never shut up about it.
Just ask her. I never shut upabout the magic of the North
Rim, and she feels the same way.But, yeah, for for hikers, the
(12:08):
fact that the fire is now belowthe rim. And, you know, we wanna
make that clear because we talkabout, and I hear it reported in
the media so much, the fire onthe North Rim. Well, the fire
now is inside the Canyon.
And to the best of our knowledgefrom what we've seen from the
maps, it's penetrated almost twomiles down the North Kaibab
Trail, which is the the trailthat connects the north and the
(12:31):
south side. And knowing thatarea, there's a lot of
vegetation. There's plenty offuel to burn. I was just looking
at some old video last night andjust like, all I can see now is
the vegetation and how muchthere was to for that fire to
just to just feed on. So we knowthat the the fire has extended
all the way down at least 1.7miles down to the Supai Tunnel
(12:52):
area.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Wow.
Brian (12:53):
So we don't know what that you know, what Upper North
Kaibab is gonna look like. Howbad was it? You know? Nobody
knows that yet. I've heard noreports.
I've seen no image of it. Iwould do anything to be able to
go and put eyes on that myself.But even crazier than that is
the fact that yesterday or theday before, we learned that the
fire crews were sending helitackteams. Mhmm. Five and a half
(13:16):
miles down the North KaibabTrailhead, essentially at the
base of the North Rim, 3,600vertical feet below the North
Rim.
Yeah. And they were beginningdefensive measures on the on the
pump house down there, whichprovides water for the North Rim
and sends water to the South Rimas well from Roaring Springs. So
(13:36):
just the fact that they wereworried about that threat
Speaker 4 (13:39):
You're right.
Brian (13:40):
That far down the canyon is it's just it's astounding if
you understand the area, and ifyou've ever been in the canyon
to think that a fire couldaffect that so far down. And you
were you guys were mentioning inthe beginning there about the
the terrain. There's no moredifficult terrain on the planet
that these firefighters aredealing with. And so I think
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Brian, my apologies. We we have to wrap real quick.
But can I'm sorry. Well, let'stake a quick break real quick,
and we'll come back because Iwanna share info on your
podcast. We'll be right back.
Brian (14:08):
You know, they're actually lucky they cut me off
when they did because, Iprobably would still be talking
right now. I could I could havegone on and on and on, and I
intended to, but I was cut offby a commercial break. So, hey,
I got to say my piece, and I'mvery grateful for them giving us
the opportunity to talk aboutour group. And, again, just the
(14:29):
the passion and thedisappointment that we're all
feeling for the Grand Canyon andfor losing the ability to do
these these hikes that that Iknow you've all worked so hard
for. But to that point, to thatpoint, you know, I'm gonna
continue to say, I really,really hope you will still
consider coming to the canyon.
(14:50):
If you had your rim to rimscheduled for late September
into October, I hope that youwill not think that, ah, you
know what? I can't do rim torim, so it's not worth going.
Guys, it is still worth comingto the Canyon. There are still
unbelievable hikes that you cando and experiences that you will
(15:11):
never ever forget. And maybe thebest part of all is of course
you want to come back and doyour rim to rim, or your rim to
rim to rim, or you want to stayat the North Rim and at the
lodge and drop in from the NorthSide and and go to the South
Side.
Of course, you want to do that.And you will be able to do that
again someday. We just don'tknow when that will be. So maybe
(15:31):
this could be, you know, kind ofa scouting trip and a way to get
out here to the Desert Southwestand get to the Grand Canyon, and
still take part in all theseincredible hikes that you can do
from the South Rim. Because Igotta tell you, you're gonna
have a better experience whenyou come back to do your rim to
rim eventually if you do that.
If you come out here for a for atrip and do some hikes from the
(15:54):
South Rim, you're ultimatelygonna have a better experience.
Why? Well, we always talk aboutit. Because of the unique nature
of canyon hiking. You don't knowhow you're gonna handle the
elevation.
You especially don't know howyou're gonna handle the downhill
before the uphill. Right? It'sgoing to teach you a lot of
lessons if you decide to to dothat, and come out here and go
down to the river, go to PhantomRanch, go down to Tonto.
(16:17):
Whatever the case may be, it isgoing to help you on your next
hike when you come back to dorim to rim. And by the way,
these are still iconic bucketlist hikes.
It doesn't mean that if youcan't do rim to rim, that you're
not doing something big andimpressive and awesome. Right?
That's what these hikes are.Listen, if Bright Angel were
(16:41):
open, I would still be up thereevery single month, even
throughout the summer, and I'dbe doing rim to river. I'd be
going down South Kaibab, I'd betaking the River Trail to Bright
Angel, and I would be exitingBright Angel.
That is still a big hike. 16 anda half miles if you don't go all
the way to Phantom, 17 and ahalf if you go all the way to
(17:02):
Phantom and have your lemonadeand such. You get to cross the
Silver Bridge. You get to godown through River Trail area
along the Colorado. You get toexit on Bright Angel through
Devil's Corkscrew and HavasupaiGardens, and, oh, by the way,
the downhill, the start of it.
You guys listen to me talk aboutit all the time. The iconic
views on South Kaibab. They areotherworldly. There is no view,
(17:26):
no view anywhere on the corridortrails like you will see on
South Kaibab. So why not comeout here and do a rim to river?
Of course, that's not availableuntil October 1 at least if the
waterline project stays onschedule and they can reopen the
river trail. That is when atraditional rim to river will be
an option again. So if you'recoming out here October, if
(17:49):
that's when your plans were, orit was after that until late
October and November, guys, comeout here and do a rim to river.
I'm telling you, you're notgoing to regret it. You'll
you'll regret it if you don't doit, and you start to see all
these pictures and theseaccounts of the people who did
decide to keep their trips andcome out here and do it.
There are still places that youcan stay. You can adjust your
(18:10):
plans. If you had plans to stayon the North Rim, of course,
that is out. However, you couldstay in Grand Canyon Village.
There are plenty of hotels inthe village if you cannot get a
reservation there.
Toussaint is right Toussaint? Iswear. Toussaint, I'm sorry. I
will mispronounce that name forthe rest of my life. The second
I heard it and the second Iheard how to pronounce it, I'm
(18:31):
like, well, it's too bad becausethat's just not gonna sit with
me.
I'm not gonna ever get it right,so I'm sorry. Toussaint,
Toussaint, right outside of thepark. Okay? There are plenty of
hotels there, this quaint,beautiful, little pass through
before you get to the gate atthe South Rim. There are plenty
of hotels to stay in there.
If you can't get reservations inthere and you wanna save a
(18:51):
little bit money, this is what Ido. I stay in Valley, which is
about twenty minutes south ofthe South Rim, just a twenty
minute drive. There's a littlehotel down there called the
Grand Canyon Hotel. It's nothingspecial. It's kind of run down.
It's maybe a little bit of adive, some might consider, but
it's good enough for me. I staythere all the time because it's
(19:12):
half the price of whateverything else is in Toussaint
and in Grand Canyon Village. So,hey, I got no problem with
saving a few dollars beforebefore heading up there for the
hike. So that's a good place tostay. If you have to go all the
way down to Williams listen.
That's only an hour from theSouth Entrance Station. If you
have to go to Flagstaff, that'san hour and twenty minutes from
(19:32):
the South Entrance Station.Flagstaff and Williams,
gorgeous. Gorgeous, unique, funplaces in their own right. So
there are places to stay.
There are ways to do this, and Iso encourage you to do it. If
you're coming before October 1,listen, you can still do rim to
river, South Kaibab to Phantom,or South Kaibab to the river,
and then back up South Kaibab.Of course, the heat mitigation
(19:56):
strategies that we always talkabout are certainly in play all
the way until there is no moreheat. I mean, obviously, that
could be the October, lateOctober. Last year, we were in
the nineties and close to a 100at the bottom of the canyon in
mid October.
So you gotta keep that in mindif you're coming before October
1, especially, meaning that youcan't do the traditional rim to
(20:18):
river route, you're and gonnahave to go back up South Kaibab.
That's gonna mean even more heatmitigation. That's gonna mean
not starting back up SouthKaibab if it's hot until late in
the evening and finishing in thedark. But that's okay too,
because finishing in the dark onthe South Rim is an amazing
experience. I do it all summerlong.
(20:41):
The canyon is magical at nightas well. So just because you
can't do the entire hike in thedaylight hours should not be a
reason that you don't come outhere and hike the canyon if you
have reservations. You canalways, if you don't wanna go
all the way down to the river,you can do South Kaibab to
Tonto, and then across to BrightAngel, and up and out Bright
Angel. Listen, that's still 13miles, 13 plus miles, and you
(21:05):
still gotta climb all the way upthat 3,500 feet up Bright Angel
from Havasupai Gardens.Difficult.
Big hike. Big hike. There's theMerry Loop, which is kind of a
variation of that. I named thisafter my friend Mary Bannock,
who I've done this with a coupleof times. Down South Kaibab all
the way to the river.
Hang out on Boat Beach for awhile, and check out the
(21:27):
incredible view of Black Bridge,and take your pictures, and dip
your feet in the Colorado, andwade around in there. There's a
calm little eddy down there, andyou get to feel that ice cold
Colorado River water, and makethose sore feet and those tired
legs recharge a little bit. Onlythen you can head back up South
Kaibab, and then instead ofgoing all the way up South
Kaibab, you take the four, fourand a half mile jaunt across
(21:49):
Tonto, which is anotherexperience in its own right.
Tonto, you're feeling likeyou're standing in the middle of
the Grand Canyon all byyourself. It's one of the
corridor trails, but it is thecorridor trail less traveled.
There's hardly ever anybody onit. It's peaceful. You just get
this feeling again like you'restanding all alone in the middle
(22:10):
of the Grand Canyon, the canyonwalls way off in the distance,
and you just notice theincredible silence and the
incredible scenery. Tonto isamazing, and then you connect
with Bright Angel, you get yourwater at Havasupai Gardens, and
up you go. That's anotherfantastic hike.
So there are ways to do that.That Mary Loupe, by the way,
about 17 and a half miles, 18and a half if you go all the way
(22:32):
to Phantom Ranch. So these arestill big hikes. These are still
bucket list hikes. These arestill hikes you will never
forget as long as you live, andall they will do is drive you to
come back.
You will be infected with anobsession for the Grand Canyon
if you don't have it already, ifyou've never been here. These
hikes are going to make you wantto come back again and again and
(22:54):
again, and of course, you'regoing to want to come back and
do rim to rim, and it will bedoable one day. Just be patient.
And in the meantime, come to thecanyon. You got this, everybody.
You got this. The canyon's notgoing anywhere, but we might as
well take advantage of theopportunities to to spend time
(23:15):
in it while we can because wedon't know when rim to rim,
North Kaibab and everything thatwe know and love is going to be
back. Anyway, that's all I gotfor you this time. We will be
back with another updatetomorrow. I'm dedicated to
continuing to do this for youguys as long as you want me to,
(23:36):
as long as you think it'simportant to continue updating
you.
And I I would definitely like tosee that containment start to go
up and and really, you know, seethat crews are starting to get
control of this fire because 0%containment this far into it,
man, it is it's hard to believe,but on we go. Alright. Oh, one
(24:01):
more thing before we go. We havecome up with a t shirt and
hoodie design, and we're sellingthese on our website,
hikin.club, hikin.club, allprofits from these things, every
single dime of profit from thesethings will go directly to
causes that support those whohave been affected by the North
(24:23):
Rim fires. This is the least wecan do.
The design, it's it's it'sawesome. It says North Rim
rises, and in the middle, you'vegot a picture of Bridey, the
famous Bridey the Burrow, whoeveryone has been shocking to
listen and hear how many peoplehave asked about Bridey the
Burrow. Did the Bridey theBurrow statue survive in the
(24:46):
North Rim fire? So we've gotBridey, and we've got the Grand
Canyon Lodge in the background.It's a really, really cool kind
of stylish shirt and hoodie.
So you can find those athikin.club, hikin.club. Again,
all profits from this are goingto causes that support the
people who were affected by theNorth Rim fires. Consciously,
(25:09):
consciously, we have made adecision that we are not making
a decision yet on who we'regonna give that money to. And in
fact, what I think the bestthing to do that's in the spirit
of everything that we do in ourcommunity here, in our hiking
community here, it's what we'reall about as community. Right?
So I think that when the timecomes, maybe we should put it to
(25:30):
a vote of everyone, and we couldcome up with some causes and
then kind of figure out where wewant these dollars to go on
behalf of our group. So that'swhat we're doing. It would be
very easy for us to sit here andsay, oh, we're giving all the
money to the Red Cross or to theGrand Canyon Conservancy. We're
not willing to do that yet.Okay?
We're not willing to do thatyet. We don't wanna make a rash
(25:52):
decision, and we wanna make surethat these dollars that are
raised from the sale of theseshirts and hoodies goes actually
to the people who need it. So westill need a little bit of time
to to figure out how that looksbecause, again, this is a fluid
situation. We're talking about afire that's still going on, a
disaster resulting from a firethat still is at 0% containment.
So we need for the dust tosettle, so to speak, before we
(26:14):
figure out what that is, and wewant your help when it comes to
deciding where to send thatmoney to.
So again, hiking.club,hikin.club. Alright. That's all
I got for you guys this time.We'll see you tomorrow again
with with another update. Thisis the Grand Canyon Hiker Dude
Show powered by Hiken.
Together, we roam.
This is the Grand Canyon Hiker Dude Show presented by
Hiken. Hiking plus kinship.That's Hiken. Together, we roam.
Here's your host, my hubby, andcofounder of Heikin, Brian
Special.
Brian (00:18):
Alright. Thursday, July 17, and I I kinda can't believe
that we're sitting here stilltalking about the Dragon Bravo
fire with 0% containment. Afterthe weather we had the other
night and after, you know, allthe days that they've they've
been fighting this fire, it isstill at 0%, up to 11,012 acres
(00:42):
consumed so far on and in theNorth Rim Of The Grand Canyon.
594 personnel are on-site.Again, you know this thing
started on July 4 as a lightningcaused fire, and they were gonna
try to contain it and let it runits course and take care of the
(01:03):
the positive things that firedoes in terms of underbrush and
things like that and thinningout some of the fuel that these
fires have to burn.
And instead, the fire gotcompletely out of control,
burned down Grand Canyon Lodge,many of the historic cabins
around it, much of theinfrastructure on the North Rim,
(01:23):
and now it burns down intoRoaring Springs Canyon where
it's consumed. At last check,the best we can see is the fire
has gone all the way down toSupai Tunnel, which is 1.7 miles
below the North KaibabTrailhead. And you can see
there's a little sliver in therewhere they've got the the line
(01:44):
or at least the perimeter. Atleast it's what it shows it on
the map. Who knows if it's trueor not?
Who knows how accurate it is?But you can see that there's a
little sliver there. And basedon the map on watch duty, the
pit toilets, the building withthe pit toilets at Supai Tunnel
is safe. That's how it appearson the map. We do not know again
(02:10):
whether that would translate toreality or not.
I still have not seen a singleimage from anywhere below the
rim on North Kaibab or anywhere,so we really don't know what the
damage looks like. But, if youlook at the fire map, it does
appear that the entire upperregion of North Kaibab from the
trailhead area all the way downto Supai Tunnel has been burned
(02:32):
in in one way or the other. Andhow bad it was will probably
help determine how long we willnot have access to North Kaibab,
at least accessing it from theSouth Side. You know that the
North Rim, of course, is closedto visitor access for the rest
of 2025, so who knows when we'llbe able to access North Qaibab
(02:53):
again from the trailhead itselfby by driving it. But there is
some good news way down belowthe rim.
We've, of course, been prettystunned here about the fact that
fire has gotten into RoaringSprings Canyon, and firefighters
were taking defensive measuresaround the pump house at Roaring
(03:13):
Springs, which is betweenManzanita and Roaring Springs.
And if you start to just thinkabout that, 3,600 vertical feet
below the North Rim, five and ahalf miles from the trailhead.
Of course, the fire is notnecessarily that they're worried
about the fire following thedirection of the North Kaibab
Trail down into Roaring Springs.It's more from above, because if
(03:34):
you know where you're at whenyou're in Roaring Springs, Grand
Canyon Lodge in that area is notthat far away. It's just
basically straight up, you know,3,600 vertical feet.
So I think the the thing thatthey're most worried about is
the fire somehow spreading downinto the canyon and into the
Roaring Springs area. That hasnot happened. We do not now know
(03:57):
how close it has gotten, but RobRoy Williams talked about some
of the success stories thatfirefighters are having in
regards to the pump house.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Things are looking real good. We have had no
movement of the fire down onthat Southeast corner for the
last thirty six hours, so we'refeeling really good about how
that pump house is sitting. Wedid have crews go in a couple
days ago, create, somedefensible space and provide
some structure protection. So,we're we're feeling really
confident that that a futurethreat, to that pump house
(04:29):
station is pretty minimal. Soreally happy to report that.
Brian (04:34):
So some good news there. They also mentioned that the
fire we talked about yesterdaywas spreading to the north by a
couple of miles because of asoutherly wind. What we did find
out that they were able to putin defensive measures around the
entrance station that we allhave to drive through when we
come into the park. So they wereconcerned enough about the fire
(04:57):
spreading that far to the norththat they took some defensive
measures and, I guess, put somekind of a wrap around it, built
a lie built some lines aroundthat and other structures in the
area. So they're confident thatthose structures will stay safe
no matter what happens.
Trail closures, still the sameold ones. North And South Kaibab
(05:19):
both closed. South Kaibab andBright Angel below Havasupai
Gardens closed because of thesmoke at the bottom of the
canyon. Phantom Ranch remainsclosed as well for the same
reason. The River Trail, ofcourse, that's been closed all
year for the waterline project.
Tonto is closed between BrightAngel and South Kaibab, and all
the canyoneering routes thatstem from those trails are
(05:42):
closed as well. So nothing'sreally changed too much in the
last twenty four hours, exceptfor the size of this fire being
over 11,000 acres now, and itcontinues to grow, and it is
still at 0% containment. That isprobably the most concerning
part because I don't know howmuch there is that they are
doing or can do below the rimbecause you're talking about
(06:05):
some of the most inhospitable,dangerous terrain that a
firefighter can come acrossanywhere on the planet. So
there's only so much thatthey're gonna be able to do, so
we're just gonna have to keephoping that mother nature takes
a turn. We get some big monsoonsin there.
They don't get too much wind,and they have conditions that
are favorable for finallybringing this thing to a halt.
(06:28):
Also, this morning, I was ableto sit down for an interview
with Fox ten here in Phoenix,and I wanted to play that for
you because unlike a lot of theother interviews that I have
done, I got more than tenseconds or five seconds to say
my piece. They kinda let metalk. And honestly, I probably
(06:48):
talk too much because they endup having to cut me off here at
the end. So stay tuned for that.
But I was really grateful forthe opportunity because they let
me talk about our community andwhat you all are feeling, what
we're all feeling with losingthe ability to do our hikes, and
the self consciousness almostthat there is because of that,
(07:09):
because you know we're worriedabout. There's so many other big
things to be worried about, andwe might look at that and say,
well, who cares about our hike?And that's true, but again, we
continue to say it's okay to beupset about it. It's okay to
mourn something you've beenworking so hard for for so long.
So I was grateful that Fox tenallowed me to speak to that, and
(07:30):
here's that interview fromearlier this morning.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
When we talk about the Grand Canyon, there are some
of the smoky skies that you cansee. We're gonna bring in Brian
Special. He is he's hiked thecanyon many, many times, kind of
an expert up there, and and hejoins us this morning. Brian,
can you hear us okay?
Brian (07:48):
I sure can, guys. Thanks for having me. Hey.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Yeah. Hi, Brian. Okay. Give us a little
background on on your knowledgeof of the Grand Canyon and and
what you do on a daily basis.You're a big hiker.
Brian (07:59):
Yeah. Sure. I've been hiking the canyon since I was 13
years old, and 1986 was thefirst time that I went rim to
rim. That was back in the dayswhen you would go to the South
Rim, and you could fly on anairplane to the North Rim and
land on a dirt strip and thenget shuttled to the trailhead
and start your hike that way. Sothose days are long gone.
But for the last couple ofyears, I've hosted a podcast
(08:19):
called the Grand Canyon HikerDude Show, and we're just,
intent on helping everyone havetheir best possible experience
hiking the Grand Canyon becauseit's a bucket list hike for
Mhmm. For so many people, whichmakes this all the more all the
more devastating because it'sit's not gonna be possible for a
while.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
That speaks volumes. The fact that you have a podcast
around the hike that shows, Ithink, how many people worldwide
Brian (08:44):
Mhmm.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
Are interested in in what is this one of the seven
wonders of the world.
Brian (08:51):
I mean, it's a it's a bucket list hike. And and like
you said, it's there's a lot of,coordination that has to go into
it because of of not just theterrain, but just the logistics
because you've got the northroom and south room separated by
about 12 miles as the crowflies. But to drive from from
one room to the other, it's afour and a half hour drive Mhmm.
Which is pretty hard tocomprehend. So there's a lot
(09:11):
that goes into the shuttlingaspect and where to spend the
night and then how to do thehike and how to train for the
hike, the unique nature ofhiking the canyon where you
gotta hike downhill first for solong before you even go up.
So, yeah, there's a lot to it.There's a there's a big appetite
for it, and there's a lot ofpeople who are extremely,
extremely disappointed becausethis is right in the, you know,
in the heart of rim to rimseason, which is only for five
(09:33):
months. Because traditionally,the North Room is only open from
May 15 through October 15, sothere's a limited time when
people can do it. And now,obviously, the rest of this year
and, you know, if we're beinghonest, probably most of next
year are are out formed. So alot of people who are who are
actually, I mean, we're pickingup in our group just in
mourning.
I mean, they feel devastated.Like, they've trained so hard
(09:54):
for this and mentally preparedthemselves for this, and now
it's just kind of gone. And Ithink people feel, you know, a
little self conscious aboutworrying about their hikes when
so much other devastation hastaken place. But we tell them
it's okay. It's okay to mourn.
I mean, it's a human reactionwhen you work for something, and
then it's it's kind of takenaway from you.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
You know, I'm glad you mentioned that because I
think it's not just the peoplewho are working for it. But I
was chatting with someone who'sdone it many times and is a
photographer up there in thehigh country. And he said when
he first heard about it, becausehe has stayed at the lodge so
many times that he actuallycried. He's like, you know,
because it was a very emotionalmoment because it's a very
(10:33):
special place. Yeah.
And so, and he was heartbrokenover the fact that it was, you
know, there are questions aboutthe management of the fire and
things like that. Let me ask youthis because there's there's
some things, of course, is wetry to get everything right with
the media. It you know, try todig into the details, but you
know a lot more about this topicthan we do. We talked we were
talking about the fire on theNorth Rim, but we understand
(10:55):
some of the information that youhave is that the fire is also
inside the canyon itself. Isthat right?
Brian (11:02):
Yeah. And let let me first say that I I can
completely relate to to thatgentleman's reaction. I mean,
there have been it's it'sextremely emotional, and it's
hard to it's hard to it's kindahard to put into words, you
know, and make yourselfunderstand why you feel that way
about a place. But the North Rimis just there's something so
special and so magical and sotimeless about it. You know?
(11:25):
I always told people that thebest way to do rim to rim would
be to start on the South Rim andfinish on the North Rim because
when you get up there, yousuddenly you know, you're in
this canyon for hours and hoursand hours, and then you surface
and you're in the pines and youwalk to the lodge, and it's like
you are just in another timebecause everything at that lodge
was the same as it essentiallyhad been for almost a hundred
(11:45):
years, and that and that neverchanged. And so I just relate to
those emotional reactions thatpeople are having because I had
the same reactions. It was it'sit's a difficult thing. My wife
and I were just there foropening day on May 15. That's
the last last time we were upthere, and you you just I I
never shut up about it.
Just ask her. I never shut upabout the magic of the North
Rim, and she feels the same way.But, yeah, for for hikers, the
(12:08):
fact that the fire is now belowthe rim. And, you know, we wanna
make that clear because we talkabout, and I hear it reported in
the media so much, the fire onthe North Rim. Well, the fire
now is inside the Canyon.
And to the best of our knowledgefrom what we've seen from the
maps, it's penetrated almost twomiles down the North Kaibab
Trail, which is the the trailthat connects the north and the
(12:31):
south side. And knowing thatarea, there's a lot of
vegetation. There's plenty offuel to burn. I was just looking
at some old video last night andjust like, all I can see now is
the vegetation and how muchthere was to for that fire to
just to just feed on. So we knowthat the the fire has extended
all the way down at least 1.7miles down to the Supai Tunnel
(12:52):
area.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Wow.
Brian (12:53):
So we don't know what that you know, what Upper North
Kaibab is gonna look like. Howbad was it? You know? Nobody
knows that yet. I've heard noreports.
I've seen no image of it. Iwould do anything to be able to
go and put eyes on that myself.But even crazier than that is
the fact that yesterday or theday before, we learned that the
fire crews were sending helitackteams. Mhmm. Five and a half
(13:16):
miles down the North KaibabTrailhead, essentially at the
base of the North Rim, 3,600vertical feet below the North
Rim.
Yeah. And they were beginningdefensive measures on the on the
pump house down there, whichprovides water for the North Rim
and sends water to the South Rimas well from Roaring Springs. So
(13:36):
just the fact that they wereworried about that threat
Speaker 4 (13:39):
You're right.
Brian (13:40):
That far down the canyon is it's just it's astounding if
you understand the area, and ifyou've ever been in the canyon
to think that a fire couldaffect that so far down. And you
were you guys were mentioning inthe beginning there about the
the terrain. There's no moredifficult terrain on the planet
that these firefighters aredealing with. And so I think
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Brian, my apologies. We we have to wrap real quick.
But can I'm sorry. Well, let'stake a quick break real quick,
and we'll come back because Iwanna share info on your
podcast. We'll be right back.
Brian (14:08):
You know, they're actually lucky they cut me off
when they did because, Iprobably would still be talking
right now. I could I could havegone on and on and on, and I
intended to, but I was cut offby a commercial break. So, hey,
I got to say my piece, and I'mvery grateful for them giving us
the opportunity to talk aboutour group. And, again, just the
(14:29):
the passion and thedisappointment that we're all
feeling for the Grand Canyon andfor losing the ability to do
these these hikes that that Iknow you've all worked so hard
for. But to that point, to thatpoint, you know, I'm gonna
continue to say, I really,really hope you will still
consider coming to the canyon.
(14:50):
If you had your rim to rimscheduled for late September
into October, I hope that youwill not think that, ah, you
know what? I can't do rim torim, so it's not worth going.
Guys, it is still worth comingto the Canyon. There are still
unbelievable hikes that you cando and experiences that you will
(15:11):
never ever forget. And maybe thebest part of all is of course
you want to come back and doyour rim to rim, or your rim to
rim to rim, or you want to stayat the North Rim and at the
lodge and drop in from the NorthSide and and go to the South
Side.
Of course, you want to do that.And you will be able to do that
again someday. We just don'tknow when that will be. So maybe
(15:31):
this could be, you know, kind ofa scouting trip and a way to get
out here to the Desert Southwestand get to the Grand Canyon, and
still take part in all theseincredible hikes that you can do
from the South Rim. Because Igotta tell you, you're gonna
have a better experience whenyou come back to do your rim to
rim eventually if you do that.
If you come out here for a for atrip and do some hikes from the
(15:54):
South Rim, you're ultimatelygonna have a better experience.
Why? Well, we always talk aboutit. Because of the unique nature
of canyon hiking. You don't knowhow you're gonna handle the
elevation.
You especially don't know howyou're gonna handle the downhill
before the uphill. Right? It'sgoing to teach you a lot of
lessons if you decide to to dothat, and come out here and go
down to the river, go to PhantomRanch, go down to Tonto.
(16:17):
Whatever the case may be, it isgoing to help you on your next
hike when you come back to dorim to rim. And by the way,
these are still iconic bucketlist hikes.
It doesn't mean that if youcan't do rim to rim, that you're
not doing something big andimpressive and awesome. Right?
That's what these hikes are.Listen, if Bright Angel were
(16:41):
open, I would still be up thereevery single month, even
throughout the summer, and I'dbe doing rim to river. I'd be
going down South Kaibab, I'd betaking the River Trail to Bright
Angel, and I would be exitingBright Angel.
That is still a big hike. 16 anda half miles if you don't go all
the way to Phantom, 17 and ahalf if you go all the way to
(17:02):
Phantom and have your lemonadeand such. You get to cross the
Silver Bridge. You get to godown through River Trail area
along the Colorado. You get toexit on Bright Angel through
Devil's Corkscrew and HavasupaiGardens, and, oh, by the way,
the downhill, the start of it.
You guys listen to me talk aboutit all the time. The iconic
views on South Kaibab. They areotherworldly. There is no view,
(17:26):
no view anywhere on the corridortrails like you will see on
South Kaibab. So why not comeout here and do a rim to river?
Of course, that's not availableuntil October 1 at least if the
waterline project stays onschedule and they can reopen the
river trail. That is when atraditional rim to river will be
an option again. So if you'recoming out here October, if
(17:49):
that's when your plans were, orit was after that until late
October and November, guys, comeout here and do a rim to river.
I'm telling you, you're notgoing to regret it. You'll
you'll regret it if you don't doit, and you start to see all
these pictures and theseaccounts of the people who did
decide to keep their trips andcome out here and do it.
There are still places that youcan stay. You can adjust your
(18:10):
plans. If you had plans to stayon the North Rim, of course,
that is out. However, you couldstay in Grand Canyon Village.
There are plenty of hotels inthe village if you cannot get a
reservation there.
Toussaint is right Toussaint? Iswear. Toussaint, I'm sorry. I
will mispronounce that name forthe rest of my life. The second
I heard it and the second Iheard how to pronounce it, I'm
(18:31):
like, well, it's too bad becausethat's just not gonna sit with
me.
I'm not gonna ever get it right,so I'm sorry. Toussaint,
Toussaint, right outside of thepark. Okay? There are plenty of
hotels there, this quaint,beautiful, little pass through
before you get to the gate atthe South Rim. There are plenty
of hotels to stay in there.
If you can't get reservations inthere and you wanna save a
(18:51):
little bit money, this is what Ido. I stay in Valley, which is
about twenty minutes south ofthe South Rim, just a twenty
minute drive. There's a littlehotel down there called the
Grand Canyon Hotel. It's nothingspecial. It's kind of run down.
It's maybe a little bit of adive, some might consider, but
it's good enough for me. I staythere all the time because it's
(19:12):
half the price of whateverything else is in Toussaint
and in Grand Canyon Village. So,hey, I got no problem with
saving a few dollars beforebefore heading up there for the
hike. So that's a good place tostay. If you have to go all the
way down to Williams listen.
That's only an hour from theSouth Entrance Station. If you
have to go to Flagstaff, that'san hour and twenty minutes from
(19:32):
the South Entrance Station.Flagstaff and Williams,
gorgeous. Gorgeous, unique, funplaces in their own right. So
there are places to stay.
There are ways to do this, and Iso encourage you to do it. If
you're coming before October 1,listen, you can still do rim to
river, South Kaibab to Phantom,or South Kaibab to the river,
and then back up South Kaibab.Of course, the heat mitigation
(19:56):
strategies that we always talkabout are certainly in play all
the way until there is no moreheat. I mean, obviously, that
could be the October, lateOctober. Last year, we were in
the nineties and close to a 100at the bottom of the canyon in
mid October.
So you gotta keep that in mindif you're coming before October
1, especially, meaning that youcan't do the traditional rim to
(20:18):
river route, you're and gonnahave to go back up South Kaibab.
That's gonna mean even more heatmitigation. That's gonna mean
not starting back up SouthKaibab if it's hot until late in
the evening and finishing in thedark. But that's okay too,
because finishing in the dark onthe South Rim is an amazing
experience. I do it all summerlong.
(20:41):
The canyon is magical at nightas well. So just because you
can't do the entire hike in thedaylight hours should not be a
reason that you don't come outhere and hike the canyon if you
have reservations. You canalways, if you don't wanna go
all the way down to the river,you can do South Kaibab to
Tonto, and then across to BrightAngel, and up and out Bright
Angel. Listen, that's still 13miles, 13 plus miles, and you
(21:05):
still gotta climb all the way upthat 3,500 feet up Bright Angel
from Havasupai Gardens.Difficult.
Big hike. Big hike. There's theMerry Loop, which is kind of a
variation of that. I named thisafter my friend Mary Bannock,
who I've done this with a coupleof times. Down South Kaibab all
the way to the river.
Hang out on Boat Beach for awhile, and check out the
(21:27):
incredible view of Black Bridge,and take your pictures, and dip
your feet in the Colorado, andwade around in there. There's a
calm little eddy down there, andyou get to feel that ice cold
Colorado River water, and makethose sore feet and those tired
legs recharge a little bit. Onlythen you can head back up South
Kaibab, and then instead ofgoing all the way up South
Kaibab, you take the four, fourand a half mile jaunt across
(21:49):
Tonto, which is anotherexperience in its own right.
Tonto, you're feeling likeyou're standing in the middle of
the Grand Canyon all byyourself. It's one of the
corridor trails, but it is thecorridor trail less traveled.
There's hardly ever anybody onit. It's peaceful. You just get
this feeling again like you'restanding all alone in the middle
(22:10):
of the Grand Canyon, the canyonwalls way off in the distance,
and you just notice theincredible silence and the
incredible scenery. Tonto isamazing, and then you connect
with Bright Angel, you get yourwater at Havasupai Gardens, and
up you go. That's anotherfantastic hike.
So there are ways to do that.That Mary Loupe, by the way,
about 17 and a half miles, 18and a half if you go all the way
(22:32):
to Phantom Ranch. So these arestill big hikes. These are still
bucket list hikes. These arestill hikes you will never
forget as long as you live, andall they will do is drive you to
come back.
You will be infected with anobsession for the Grand Canyon
if you don't have it already, ifyou've never been here. These
hikes are going to make you wantto come back again and again and
(22:54):
again, and of course, you'regoing to want to come back and
do rim to rim, and it will bedoable one day. Just be patient.
And in the meantime, come to thecanyon. You got this, everybody.
You got this. The canyon's notgoing anywhere, but we might as
well take advantage of theopportunities to to spend time
(23:15):
in it while we can because wedon't know when rim to rim,
North Kaibab and everything thatwe know and love is going to be
back. Anyway, that's all I gotfor you this time. We will be
back with another updatetomorrow. I'm dedicated to
continuing to do this for youguys as long as you want me to,
(23:36):
as long as you think it'simportant to continue updating
you.
And I I would definitely like tosee that containment start to go
up and and really, you know, seethat crews are starting to get
control of this fire because 0%containment this far into it,
man, it is it's hard to believe,but on we go. Alright. Oh, one
(24:01):
more thing before we go. We havecome up with a t shirt and
hoodie design, and we're sellingthese on our website,
hikin.club, hikin.club, allprofits from these things, every
single dime of profit from thesethings will go directly to
causes that support those whohave been affected by the North
(24:23):
Rim fires. This is the least wecan do.
The design, it's it's it'sawesome. It says North Rim
rises, and in the middle, you'vegot a picture of Bridey, the
famous Bridey the Burrow, whoeveryone has been shocking to
listen and hear how many peoplehave asked about Bridey the
Burrow. Did the Bridey theBurrow statue survive in the
(24:46):
North Rim fire? So we've gotBridey, and we've got the Grand
Canyon Lodge in the background.It's a really, really cool kind
of stylish shirt and hoodie.
So you can find those athikin.club, hikin.club. Again,
all profits from this are goingto causes that support the
people who were affected by theNorth Rim fires. Consciously,
(25:09):
consciously, we have made adecision that we are not making
a decision yet on who we'regonna give that money to. And in
fact, what I think the bestthing to do that's in the spirit
of everything that we do in ourcommunity here, in our hiking
community here, it's what we'reall about as community. Right?
So I think that when the timecomes, maybe we should put it to
(25:30):
a vote of everyone, and we couldcome up with some causes and
then kind of figure out where wewant these dollars to go on
behalf of our group. So that'swhat we're doing. It would be
very easy for us to sit here andsay, oh, we're giving all the
money to the Red Cross or to theGrand Canyon Conservancy. We're
not willing to do that yet.Okay?
We're not willing to do thatyet. We don't wanna make a rash
(25:52):
decision, and we wanna make surethat these dollars that are
raised from the sale of theseshirts and hoodies goes actually
to the people who need it. So westill need a little bit of time
to to figure out how that looksbecause, again, this is a fluid
situation. We're talking about afire that's still going on, a
disaster resulting from a firethat still is at 0% containment.
So we need for the dust tosettle, so to speak, before we
(26:14):
figure out what that is, and wewant your help when it comes to
deciding where to send thatmoney to.
So again, hiking.club,hikin.club. Alright. That's all
I got for you guys this time.We'll see you tomorrow again
with with another update. Thisis the Grand Canyon Hiker Dude
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