July 14, 2025 • 31 mins
What do you say when one of your favorite places in the world burns down? In this update on the devastating North Rim fire, Brian and Zeena sit down to reflect on the Dragon Bravo Fire that consumed Grand Canyon Lodge and much of the North Rim. But this isn’t just a story of loss—it’s one of love, memory, and the spirit that refuses to die. With firsthand reports, emotional tributes to employees and volunteers, and a powerful reminder that the Canyon endures, this episode holds space for both grief and hope.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Zeena (00:05):
This is the Grand Canyon Hiker Dude Show presented by
Hiken. Hiking plus kinship.That's Hiken. Together, we roam.
Here's your host, my hubby, andcofounder of Hiken, Brian
Special.
Brian (00:19):
Oh, boy. What a, what a couple days it, it has been. You
heard Zena right there at theintro. Zena is actually with me
here. Our goal today is to justkinda update you on everything
that's going on, what's happenedover the past couple of days.
And, know, Zena, you know, I canbe negative and down in the
(00:39):
dumps, and I have been over thepast couple of days, and I was
this morning as I thought abouteverything, and I I was on my
hike. And then I listened to thepodcast that that you did, your
new podcast called Sacred Steps,which are hiking meditations.
And the one you did this weekwas about the word kaibab, and
it just placed me at the GrandCanyon. It reminded me why I
(01:01):
love the Grand Canyon so much.So that was just that was
perfect.
What was the what was themeaning behind that?
Zeena (01:07):
Well, kaibab means mountain lying down
Brian (01:10):
Yeah.
Zeena (01:10):
Or upside down mountain. But it was really just a journey
inward. But I think that what'sgoing on right now is is really
deep. It's it's a deeptransformation.
Brian (01:23):
Yeah.
Zeena (01:23):
A lot of transformation happening, and I feel like we
need to take time to pause andhonor what's been lost. All the
trees, the habitats, thebuildings, the homes, the lodge.
But also remember that it's atime for rebirth. It's a time
(01:44):
for renewal.
Brian (01:46):
And that's why we're gonna be positive about
everything that's happeningtoday. You know, before we
before we started this, I justsaw the first photo that I've
seen of the lodge today, and itwas an aerial shot. I haven't
verified where it came from orwhether it was real or not. I
can't imagine that it's not. Imean, everything's perfect.
But I choose to look at that,what I saw, as something
(02:07):
extremely
Zeena (02:08):
positive.
Brian (02:09):
It was taken from the canyon side of the the lodge, so
from behind where the the greatroom, the sunroom, the big
windows look out over the overthe canyon, the dining room,
they look out over the canyon.And what you see, what's what's
so striking about it, and why Ichoose choose to be positive
about this whole thing isbecause the bones are there. The
(02:29):
structure is still there. Yes.The wooden parts, the roof is is
gone.
Right? There's there's smoke andand debris, and but the
structure, the the the spirit ofthat place still lives.
Zeena (02:43):
Absolutely. It doesn't die. Nothing ever dies. And it's
just making space for what's yetto come.
Brian (02:52):
And I saw, if you zoom in on that picture, you look on the
on the veranda, on on the iconicveranda with the Adirondack
chairs looking out over over thecanyon, just of the most iconic
places and views in the world.And if you look real closely,
you can still see those chairs.You can see them still lined up
(03:12):
on the deck. I'm not saying theyweren't touched. I'm not saying
they weren't burned.
But from that far away, you canstill still see that they're
that they're there. Mhmm. Andthe bones of that place are are
still there.
Zeena (03:23):
Yes.
Brian (03:24):
And they're going to rebuild it. Absolutely. It's
going to be rebuilt. It's gonna
Zeena (03:28):
be more beautiful than ever. Yes. Stronger, more
beautiful.
Brian (03:31):
Yes. It's gonna be just a chapter in the story. And I I
talked this morning. I did apost. It really helped cleanse
me this morning.
I did a post on something that Idoubt anybody else has this kind
of reaction that I that I do toto things because I can be kinda
weird like that. But it was thepicture a picture that I took
back when we were there in Mayof the cast iron radiator
(03:55):
Uh-huh. In the great room, inthe sunroom, that's down there
in the corner by Bridey, youknow, the statue of the of the
famous Bridey of Grand Canyon,the the mule, Donkey. And that
thing to me just represents thetimelessness of Grand Canyon
Lodge. Right?
That thing has probably beenoperating in that same spot for,
(04:19):
you know, close to a hundredyears. It reopened in 1937 after
the last time it burned. I betthat thing's been there ever
since. Never thought to reallyreplace it because it just sits
there, and it watchesgenerations go by, and it just
does its job, and it's timeless.And that's the entire vibe of
the North Rim to me.
It's why I love it so much andwhy on this podcast, I'm always
(04:39):
talking about finishing on theNorth Rim, finishing a rim to
rim on the North Rim becausethere's nothing like stepping
out of the rim and eithergetting a ride or walking down
to Grand Canyon Lodge, andyou're suddenly just stuck back
in time from the moment you walkinto the lodge, and you and you
go to check-in, and and they'vegot the old key system. There's
(05:00):
no key cards. Right?
Zeena (05:01):
They got the old key system in in the little in
Brian (05:03):
the little slots behind the desk, and it's just
something that you would expectto have seen a hundred years
ago, and it's still like that.Right? But that stuff is all
well, that stuff might be gone.Right? That radiator, I bet, is
still I bet it's still there inin some form, and I hope they I
hope they save it because,again, it's just the
timelessness of the North Rimand the timelessness of Grand
(05:23):
Canyon Lodge, and nothing'sgonna change.
It's still gonna be one of themost remote places in The United
States. There's only gonna beone road in and one road out.
It's not like we're gonna havethis development where some big
resort comes in there, andsuddenly it's unrecognizable. If
you saw that picture that I sawtoday, and I encourage you to go
look for it, you see the GrandCanyon Lodge is still there.
(05:47):
We've just gotta rebuild what'sinside, and it's gonna be a
glorious day when that lodgereopens again because it's gonna
happen.
Zeena (05:54):
Absolutely. Like, the fire is it's ancient. You know?
Everything that's happened Theland knows what to do. The
canyon knows what to do.
It'll all be rebuilt, and it'llall rise again.
Brian (06:11):
It's gonna be a magical day. It's it's coming. I don't
know if it's five years fromnow, ten years from now. A lot
of political bureaucratic redtape to get through, I'm sure,
but the will is gonna be there,and it's it's it's gonna happen.
So I you know, I'm excited aboutthat.
I can say that this early on.But let's talk about the the
nuts and bolts of what'shappening here because that's
(06:33):
really the point of us gettingon here is to just kinda update
you on everything that's goingon. It was only one week ago.
Was it one week? It was one weekago today that we got first got
word of this fire.
Mhmm. And it was essentially acontrolled burn, a lightning
caused fire that happened on theJuly 4. And the park decided to
(06:54):
manage it as essentially acontrolled burn. Right? They
were gonna let let it run itscourse and take care of, you
know, what fires do in terms ofthe you just mentioned, the
rebirth.
Fires are important. There arecontrolled burns on the North
Rim every year. So, you know,obviously, the Park Service saw
this, and they're like, let'sjust let this go and and manage
(07:15):
it, and they stayed on top ofit. And a few days later, it was
it was 10 acres, then it was 27acres, and everything was fine
up until Thursday or Friday whensuddenly, you know, we heard the
evacuation order, first of theGrand Canyon Lodge guests, which
was caused by the White SageFire, which is burning about 50
(07:36):
miles to the to the north. Butthen the next day or later that
day, I don't remember which oneit was, but they got the go
notification that that all NorthRim personnel had to had to get
out, and they had to get outfast.
And I heard that in some cases,they had about ten minutes, you
know, to get out of therebecause the Dragon Bravo fire
was had had jumped fire lines,and it was it was getting close.
(07:59):
It was a nightmare scenario.
Zeena (08:00):
It's crazy.
Brian (08:01):
Right. A nightmare scenario. When when the Park
Service made this decision toallow this thing to to run its
course and and and before theybefore they put it down, it
obviously got away from them andgot close to structures, and
then the winds kicked up, and itwas just it was just a nightmare
scenario. And then, you know, acouple of nights ago, I'll I'll
(08:22):
never forget it. It was justyesterday morning.
Today's Monday. Yesterday wasSunday, and I woke up at I woke
up yesterday morning justwondering what would happen
because things had started toreally go sideways on Saturday
night, and found out at 3AM thatthe that the lodge was was lost.
Zeena (08:37):
I I didn't even wanna check my phone. Yeah.
Brian (08:39):
Yeah. Yeah. Kinda when you looked at the maps that
night, Saturday night, it justit did not look good, but you
just kinda held out hope thatmaybe things would change. And,
you know, you might wonder whywhy the firefighters couldn't
couldn't defend the lodge area.They did the best they could.
I mean, I know that they dumpedtons of water, literally tons
and tons of water on the thelodge and the surrounding
(09:02):
buildings the night beforebefore they had stopped flying
for the night and just drenchedit. But, you know, the fire just
didn't care ultimately when itcame down to it. So they did
what they they did what theycould. They couldn't necessarily
be on scene because if you'refamiliar with that area, it's
essentially out on a peninsula,on a land peninsula, and there'd
be no place to there'd be noplace to hide, no place to
(09:22):
retreat to except, you know, athousand feet straight down. So
at some point, it just becamenothing nothing that they could
do.
But the update that we got thismorning from NPS, 5,700 acres is
what the Dragon Bravo fire is upto. And as of this moment, you
know, Monday afternoon, 0%containment. And it has started
(09:44):
to seep down into the canyon.We've lost 70 plus structures on
the North Rim, including, ofcourse, the lodge, the cabins, a
lot of personal residences, thewastewater treatment plant,
which is going to be a hugedeal. Nothing can get rebuilt
until until that thing's readyready to go again.
The visitor center, the giftshop, I mean, just everything is
Zeena (10:06):
just But this has happened before. The lodge has
burned down before.
Brian (10:09):
Yeah. It burned down in the thirties, 1932, and it was
rebuilt in 1937. So, yes, we weassume it it will be back. But
the fire now is down intoRoaring Springs Canyon, and
that's important to to ourhiking community because that's
where Upper North Kaibab is. Youknow, North Kaibab essentially
runs through Roaring SpringsCanyon all the way down Eye Of
(10:31):
The Needle, Manzanita, the pumphouse down there, actually,
Roaring Springs proper downthere where the where the pump
house is, and then and thenthrough Manzanita.
You know, that that's RoaringSprings Canyon. It essentially
runs all the way to the base ofthe of the North Rim. I don't
know where it is. I really wouldlike to know how far down it has
gotten. I've heard that it'sburnt down below the Coconino
(10:54):
layer, Coconino sandstone layer.
That would be Coconino overlook.I I just I I
Zeena (10:59):
don't the detail.
Brian (10:59):
We don't have the details, and the park service, I
don't think, has has gottenthose details yet. But I they
did say this morning that it wasgonna be a high priority to put
that part of the fire outburning in Roaring Springs
Canyon. They have two airtankers, two heavy helicopters,
and a lot of their attention isbeing, you know, focused on
stopping the fire in in RoaringSprings Canyon so it doesn't get
(11:22):
too much farther down. As ofnow, you know, they say that the
pump house is not threatened,which is at Roaring Springs down
below where you see the thefamous waterfall there where the
water supply for the north andsouth rims comes from out of
that out of that that aquifer,that underground aquifer there
that's inside the canyon wall.They say the pump house is not
(11:43):
threatened at this time, so thattells me that it's still, you
know, pretty far up in thecanyon.
So that's good. But, again, wesaw how things fast things
changed with this fire already,and, who knows what's gonna
happen? I'm not a fire expert.I'm not making predictions. I'm
just telling you what we know sofar.
So that's a concern, obviously.It is not going to cut off water
(12:07):
supply to the South Rim. Becauseas, you know, we talk about
often, and as I just talkedabout, the water for the South
Rim comes from the North Rim. Itcomes from Roaring Springs. It
comes from that that aquifer,and it is fed by gravity.
And this is the reason why it isnot going to affect it's not
gonna affect the water supply orwater service on the South Rim
(12:29):
is that the water from RoaringSprings is fed by gravity all
the way down the canyon toPhantom Ranch, all the way
across the Silver Bridge, allthe way up to Plateau Point. So
it's it manages by gravity to goup about 1,500 vertical feet to
Havasupai Gardens. And only whenit gets to Havasupai Gardens is
(12:51):
it pumped to the South Rim. Sogravity takes care of
everything. Nature takes care ofeverything.
Physics takes care of everythinguntil the water gets to
Havasupai Gardens, and that'swhen man takes over and you need
electricity to pump it to therim. But there's no problems at
Havasupai Gardens, and so therewill be no water service
(13:11):
disruptions on the South Rim. Sothat is good news. Electricity
has been cut off to RoaringSprings from the North Rim, So
they're not able to pump waterto the North Rim currently, but
I don't think anybody's tooconcerned about that because
there's not any infrastructureto service right now,
unfortunately. So those arethose are those are just the
(13:34):
facts, but I just I can't stopthinking about all the people
who have been affected by this,especially the employees, the
seasonal workers on the on theNorth Rim.
Zeena (13:44):
They hear us.
Brian (13:45):
The park service staff, they were given such little time
to to get out of there. Therewas one story I really wanna
share with you. And, JD, I hopeyou don't you don't mind me
doing this because you postedabout posted about it in our
hike in Grand Canyon Facebookgroup. But JD Yingling and his
wife are volunteers and havebeen for a long time. They do
the preventative search andrescue volunteering on the North
(14:07):
Rim every year.
JD's awesome, man. He's always,know, you he's always posting
pictures, and when they gorolling in there with their
fifth wheel and the when thegates open just before May
before the gates open on May 15when they're going in there to
get set up, and you can telljust how excited he is, and it
just embodies the love that thatso many have for the for the the
North Rim that, you know, peoplewill spend their retirement
(14:29):
years up there working workingfor free essentially because
they believe so strongly in inthe cause and in the in the
place. And JD and his wife foundI find out that they were in
Kanab, Utah for their days offwhen the evacuation order came.
So they had to just they werealready out of town. Right?
(14:49):
So they couldn't get back in. Ohmy god. Their fifth wheel, their
truck, all their personalbelongings left behind. And as
of today yeah. And as of today,they still didn't know anything.
They still didn't know if theyhad anything to go back to or
any personal belongings toretrieve. They still haven't
found out. Can you imagine howdifficult that would be?
Zeena (15:08):
Oh my gosh. I can't even imagine. That's horrible.
Brian (15:11):
That situation knowing. Yeah. The the not knowing part.
And think he was hoping to findout that today, but as of last
check, they had not found out.Couldn't tell
Zeena (15:21):
us anything.
Brian (15:21):
JD, we're thinking of you, and we're thinking of
everyone who you know, part oftheir part of their soul has
burnt with the with the GrandCanyon Lodge. I mean, it's it's
you hear these stories of, youknow, the the employees who
would gather on the on theveranda that we talked about
where the Adirondack chairs are,and they got the big fireplace
(15:43):
back there. And I know that wasa place where generations of
Grand Canyon Lodge North Rimemployees would would gather,
you know, to talk about theirday and to share their love of
the canyon, have a have a drink,and look out over the canyon and
see the the headlights headlampsdown below, the hikers on their
way up and are on their waydown, or look across to the
(16:05):
South Rim and see the lights andknow that just 12 miles away is
actual civilization. But to getthere, you either gotta hike 21
miles straight across, or you'vegotta drive around for four and
a half hours. That's how how youknow, it's gotta be a tight knit
community
Zeena (16:20):
Absolutely.
Brian (16:20):
Up there. So I feel so so bad for all those people who you
know, so many of them will, youknow, lose their livelihoods for
a while out of this. I know thepark service is trying to
reassign folks, and they'regonna do the best they can to
reassign folks to roles on theon the South Room in the
meantime because there's there'sno telling when when anybody's
gonna be able to get back inthere to even assess the damage.
(16:42):
Again, 0% containment on thisfire. So you just said that not
knowing, it's gotta be sobrutal.
Zeena (16:48):
Absolutely.
Brian (16:49):
Alright. Well oh, there was one piece of good news
today. Another piece of goodnews besides that picture. And
when we were in the North Rimlast year
Zeena (16:57):
Mhmm. Remember? The mules.
Brian (17:00):
The mules. And so many people have asked about the
mules.
Zeena (17:03):
I'm so glad they're safe.
Brian (17:04):
Yeah. We did find out today that they have been
evacuated and taken back totheir corral in in Southern
Utah. Mhmm. And they are safeand healthy and happy and
Perfect. Nonetheless.
Right? Probably gonna be on a ona long hiatus now because who
knows when they'll be they'll beneeded again.
Zeena (17:24):
They might know more than we think. No. They might.
Brian (17:26):
They might. Who who am I to say? But another thing that,
of course, folks in our ourgroup wanna wanna know about is
the the hiking and what thiswhat this all means. Let's talk
about what it means just justtoday. Okay?
Just today. South Kaibab, NorthKaibab, of course, and Bright
Angel Trail below HavasupaiGardens are all closed. The
(17:49):
reason for that is the smoke.It's apparently very, very thick
down there. And I heard LisaHendy, who was on the show not
too long ago, the CanyonDistrict Ranger, who's handling
a lot of this response with thefire as well, says that she
doesn't want hikers or her staffdown there in that smoke.
So it's probably it's probablypretty thick down there at
(18:11):
Phantom Ranch and on SouthKaibab. I mean, we've seen the
pictures and on on that lowerpart of Bright Angel Trail as
well. So there's no access tothe to the trails except for
Bright Angel. If you're hiking,if you're up there and you're
hoping to do rim to rim or rimto river, you can still hike on
Bright Angel. You can go as fardown as Havasupai Gardens, which
(18:33):
is four and a half miles andabout 3,000 vertical feet down.
All the same warnings apply. Itis still July, folks. That's one
of the reasons why we're in thispredicament that we are. It's so
dry. The monsoon really hasn'thit yet.
We haven't had those bigrainstorms, cloudy days. It is
dry. It is hot. It is miserable.Don't be distracted by the fact
(18:56):
that we've got this fire goingon, and then tell yourself that
everything's cool and copaceticright now because it's not.
It is still extremely dangerousto be on Bright Angel Trail in
the middle of the day. So pleasekeep that in mind. It's so easy
for tourists and experiencedhikers even to get themselves
into trouble by going downhilland thinking, man, this is so
(19:19):
easy. It's the grand deceptionwe always talk about. This is so
easy.
This really hard on me. I'mgoing down. I'm looking out over
the canyon, and I forget thatI've gotta turn around and go
back out. So don't get yourselfin that predicament where you
are on that trail anytime. Youknow, I'm gonna say between nine
and five.
The park, I think, says ten andfour. I'm saying personally nine
(19:39):
and five, and I wouldn't even beon the trail past 09:00 in the
morning or before 05:00 in theevening. It's just not happening
because it's not worth it. After04:00, you start to get the
shade. It starts to shade in,and that entirely changes the
game.
So if you go down, hang out atHavasupai Gardens, hang out in
the creek, and start up later inthe day when the shade takes
(20:00):
over because it is a brutal,brutal climb even in the best of
conditions. But in the directsun and the heat, it's downright
dangerous. Please do not be astatistic. Well, the the rangers
don't need to they they don'tneed to deal with another
Zeena (20:15):
They don't unfortunate any more. Don't need any more
than
Brian (20:17):
they're already dealing with. So please, please keep
that in mind. You know, I'malways talking about the heat,
and we just want people to staysafe. But North Kaibab, the
decision was made to shut downNorth Kaibab, access to North I
should say not North Kaibab, butaccess to the North Rim for the
entirety of the 2025 season.That means, folks, that no
(20:41):
matter what, yes, rim to rimseason is over.
You cannot do it until at leastat least May of twenty twenty
six when the North Rim typicallyreopens. Do we know if that's
gonna happen for sure? No. Ofcourse, we don't. We don't know
we don't know how long the Norththe the North Side is gonna be
(21:03):
is gonna be closed.
And no matter what, there'sgonna be no Grand Canyon Lodge.
So your only options for stayingon the North Rim next year if it
reopens will be Jacob Lake Innand Kaibab Lodge, both of which
are safe from the fires,fortunately. But rim to rim
season, no. There there it's notit's not happening. It is not
(21:25):
happening.
There's no there's no way to doit. There's no public access to
the North Rim for the rest ofthis season. It is closed. It is
shut down. Rim to rim to rim,you know, if you're gonna do an
out and back, I don't know whenthat will be available again.
Because, we talked about thefire in Roaring Springs Canyon.
We do not know what kind ofdamage there has been to the
(21:48):
North Kaibab Trail itself, andespecially the upper reaches of
it between the trailhead and,you know, say, Supai Tunnel or
Redwall Bridge. We do not knowwhat has happened. There is a
lot of vegetation up there, andI know the fire, just looking at
the map, was essentially at theNorth Kaibab Trailhead. And if
(22:09):
it has seeped down into RoaringSprings Canyon, which we know it
has, but if it's seeped downyeah.
We don't know where. It is it isit off to the east that it
seeped down into the canyon, oris it at where North Kaibab
Trailhead is and it starts todive down? We don't know that
yet. So imagine the damage anddestruction that could have been
done to that trail with fallentrees and just charred remains
(22:31):
of brush everywhere all overthose trails. We do not know.
And then what's gonna happenthis winter if we have a bad
winter and the runoff? Right?Exacerbated by the fire damage.
We do not know. So will rim torim to rim be possible the rest
of this year?
I don't know. I don't know. Iwish I had the answer to it
(22:53):
because I would love to do it. Iwould love to get up there and
put my eyes on the damage andeverything that's happened so
that I could report back toy'all, but I don't know when
that is going to be feasible.And you know, if you are
thinking about doing rim to rimto rim because it's like, oh,
I'll just do rim to rim to riminstead of rim to rim, just I'll
always throw out this warning.
Rim to rim to rim is anextraordinarily difficult hike
(23:16):
to do it in a day, and you'regonna have no choice because
there's no place to stay on theNorth Rim. You have no bailout.
If you commit to it, you'vegotta do it, and it is one of
the most difficult things thatyou can ever imagine putting
your body through to do all inone day. If Cottonwood's
reopened, if Phantoms reopened,Bright Angel Campground, you if
could break it up into multipledays, of course, that's a
(23:37):
complete game changer. So thatcould be an option as well, but
again, we don't know when thecampgrounds are gonna reopen
because they are all currentlyclosed as well.
So a lot of questions. I knowthat that there are not any
solid answers that I can giveyou right now, except that the
North Rim is closed for the restof 2025. And, you know, even if
(23:59):
it reopens in 2026 at somepoint, it's gonna look
completely different than it didjust a week ago.
Zeena (24:05):
We'll just have to see.
Brian (24:06):
Yeah. We'll just have to see. There's there's there's
really no other way to there'sreally no other way to put it.
We're just
Zeena (24:12):
still in it. We're still
Brian (24:13):
in it. We're still in it. We're still in it. And we'll
we'll we'll keep trying toupdate you and pay attention to
everything that's happening. Ofcourse, the updates are going
out regularly in our Hikin'Grand Canyon Facebook group, so
search for H I K I N, Hikin'Grand Canyon.
Our Facebook group where thereare rep updates, man, I'm
putting them out. Every time Ihear something and confirm it,
(24:34):
I'm I'm putting it out to you.You know, working hard, I think
I owe that to everyone in thiscommunity. I feel an immense
responsibility to to keep youinformed and to to encourage you
and to remind you that thecanyon's not going anywhere.
Right?
The canyon's not going anywhere.And Grand Canyon Lodge is gonna
be rebuilt. And I'll just say itagain. That day is gonna be a
(24:57):
glorious day when it happens.
Zeena (24:59):
Yes. It'll be beautiful.
Brian (25:00):
Yeah.
Zeena (25:01):
This has happened before, and it'll rise again.
Brian (25:04):
Yeah. I mean, we're only talking about 1937. So what?
Eighty eight years ago. Yep.
It was the last time that thishappened. So I I if you look at
it in the grand scheme ofthings, it's it's a blip in time
in the history of the GrandCanyon, not e not even a not
even a blink. Right. Isn't thatcrazy to think about how long
that thing has been there, thecanyon itself? Anyway, I think
(25:25):
that's all I got.
Yeah. You got anything else? Anywords of wisdom to lead to leave
us with? Because I know that youwanna do a meditation on on
fire. So maybe just give us alittle preview of the of of fire
and why fire doesn't have to bethis the evil bad guy all the
time.
Zeena (25:42):
Well, fire is is ceremony. It's medicine. It's
not destruction, and it teachesus that even in the chaos, we
don't have to collapse. We canbe reborn, and that we can
transform and transmute.
Brian (26:00):
And that's what's gonna happen. Mhmm. Right? That's all
we're looking at. You know?
It's I feel like this hit me soso hard just because of the love
that I have for the North Rimand
Zeena (26:10):
how I know.
Brian (26:11):
I I was planning to go this week. I know. You know?
Because I saw that we got somemonsoons potentially coming in
later this week, thetemperature's gonna drop into
the nineties in in Phoenix. AndI was like, okay.
I can I can heat mitigate thatand be smart and do a south my
favorite thing to do, south tonorth, spend the night at the
North Rim, just hang out, justsoak in the vibes, and, man, and
(26:34):
then walk back and walk back tothe other side? You know? That's
one of my my absolute favoritethings to do in the whole world,
and it's gonna be a while beforebefore I get to do that again.
I'm speaking Yeah. We will.
Zeena (26:45):
We'll do it again.
Brian (26:46):
We will. We were there on May 15. We were there for
opening day this year, and, man,and just everything about it. I
mean, you remember that drive upand how I I I just can't shut up
about it. There's somethingabout the North Rim, and it is
so hard to quantify.
It is. And we just you drive upthere, and you drive through
Flagstaff, which is beautiful inits own right. And then, you
(27:08):
know, you're driving through thePainted Desert and the
Vermillion Cliffs and past Lee'sFerry, the Navajo Bridge where
Zena got to do her rim to rim torim crossing the Navajo Bridge
because Marble Canyon istechnically the Grand Canyon.
That was so much fun. And thenyou get up there onto the Kaibab
Plateau after going pastVermillion Cliffs, which are
just so stunning.
And you get up to Jacob Lincoln,you go and you grab your
(27:28):
cookies, right? And then youjust continue on through the
gate to the North Rim, and youhope to eventually see the bison
down there on that forty fiveminute drive all the way to the
to the North Rim. It's a trip.And it's just so beautiful, the
aspens and the pines and therolling meadows. I just it just
it just it just makes your hearthappy.
(27:49):
And then you you get to theNorth Kaibab Trailhead, and it's
like, that's where we're gonnathat's where I'm going tomorrow.
You're dropping me off tonight,you know, or you're dropping me
off in the middle of the night.And then you continue on to
Grand Canyon Lodge and And hasstuff. It does. You see the
rustic cabins, and you gocheck-in.
You have dinner with this mostincredible view over the canyon,
and and you just, again, soak inthe vibe, sit in the chairs
(28:12):
outside, walk around. It hurtsmy heart that we're not gonna
we're not gonna have that for awhile. It was a special place
for us. But Yeah. But we'regoing back.
Zeena (28:22):
Yeah. We
Brian (28:22):
are. And Xena doesn't hike so much, but she you took
the the mules down to SupaiTunnel last time, and that was
that was very special too. So,man, I I better be careful
because I won't shut up againbecause I can I could talk about
the North Rim
Zeena (28:37):
I like talking about it?
Brian (28:38):
All day. I do too. I do too. It's just so special, and
it will be special again.There's gonna be a hole in our
hearts for for a while, but, youknow, I just encourage everybody
to keep to keep the employeesand the people who you know,
we're just visitors, you know,you and I.
You know, people have reachedout and asked, you know, how I'm
doing, how you're doing. Youknow? We're we're fine. We live
(28:59):
in Phoenix. We're we're guestsof the North Rim when we go.
And I don't wanna lose sight ofthat, of the fact that, you
know, that's all we are. And thepeople who live there and who
have given their lives to it aresomething much more, and they're
the ones who are really affectedby this. And I wanna keep them
in mind first and foremost andand ways that we can help them.
(29:21):
And I know there are GoFundMe'sgoing around, and they're
looking for donations to thefood banks. It's really early in
the process, and I will be sureto keep everyone updated on
that.
But those are the people thatthat I want everyone to
hopefully keep in their in theirthoughts and
Zeena (29:36):
The true heroes.
Brian (29:37):
They are the true heroes. They are. And and they need they
need us now. They're they'rethey're deeply affected by this.
You know?
We are to a certain extent, butI just wanna honor the the fact
that those are the people whowho we should be thinking about.
Alright. Thanks for doing thiswith me, Zena.
Zeena (29:54):
I love you.
Brian (29:55):
Yeah. I love you too. We'll we'll we'll we'll come
back and and provide moreupdates as events unfold, I
guess. But we are gonna stepaway from the podcast. I do
wanna say that that the GrandCanyon Hiker Dude show.
I'm gonna step away from thatfor a little bit here. I don't
think it's overly appropriate tobe talking about rim to rim and
(30:16):
and all that right now,especially considering we we
can't do it. We're just gonnatake a pause right now. It's the
middle of the summer anyway, andwe're gonna focus on this fire
and the the rebirth of the NorthRim, which is coming. So thank
you all.
I appreciate everyone's supportand your comments and your
engagements on social media.Trust me. I am on Facebook in
(30:38):
our hiking Grand Canyon Facebookgroup.
Zeena (30:40):
All the time.
Brian (30:41):
All day. I am. Yeah. I I again, I feel responsibility.
Zeena (30:44):
You know, especially especially voice of the Grand
Canyon.
Brian (30:46):
I well, let's not get carried away. But I But
Zeena (30:49):
You are.
Brian (30:51):
Look, I I I don't I don't I don't I'm not comfortable
hearing you say that, so don'tsay that. But I I, again, have a
responsibility, I feel like, to,to let everyone know what's
what's going on and keep youupdated the best we can. So I'm
gonna leave it, at that. This isthe Grand Canyon Hiker Dude
Show, presented by Hiken. Youknow, more than ever, Together
(31:12):
We Roam.
Right? Together We Roam.
Zeena (31:14):
Together We Roam.
Brian (31:14):
Yeah. Alright. See you next time, everybody. Thanks.
Zeena (31:16):
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
This is the Grand Canyon Hiker Dude Show presented by
Hiken. Hiking plus kinship.That's Hiken. Together, we roam.
Here's your host, my hubby, andcofounder of Hiken, Brian
Special.
Brian (00:19):
Oh, boy. What a, what a couple days it, it has been. You
heard Zena right there at theintro. Zena is actually with me
here. Our goal today is to justkinda update you on everything
that's going on, what's happenedover the past couple of days.
And, know, Zena, you know, I canbe negative and down in the
(00:39):
dumps, and I have been over thepast couple of days, and I was
this morning as I thought abouteverything, and I I was on my
hike. And then I listened to thepodcast that that you did, your
new podcast called Sacred Steps,which are hiking meditations.
And the one you did this weekwas about the word kaibab, and
it just placed me at the GrandCanyon. It reminded me why I
(01:01):
love the Grand Canyon so much.So that was just that was
perfect.
What was the what was themeaning behind that?
Zeena (01:07):
Well, kaibab means mountain lying down
Brian (01:10):
Yeah.
Zeena (01:10):
Or upside down mountain. But it was really just a journey
inward. But I think that what'sgoing on right now is is really
deep. It's it's a deeptransformation.
Brian (01:23):
Yeah.
Zeena (01:23):
A lot of transformation happening, and I feel like we
need to take time to pause andhonor what's been lost. All the
trees, the habitats, thebuildings, the homes, the lodge.
But also remember that it's atime for rebirth. It's a time
(01:44):
for renewal.
Brian (01:46):
And that's why we're gonna be positive about
everything that's happeningtoday. You know, before we
before we started this, I justsaw the first photo that I've
seen of the lodge today, and itwas an aerial shot. I haven't
verified where it came from orwhether it was real or not. I
can't imagine that it's not. Imean, everything's perfect.
But I choose to look at that,what I saw, as something
(02:07):
extremely
Zeena (02:08):
positive.
Brian (02:09):
It was taken from the canyon side of the the lodge, so
from behind where the the greatroom, the sunroom, the big
windows look out over the overthe canyon, the dining room,
they look out over the canyon.And what you see, what's what's
so striking about it, and why Ichoose choose to be positive
about this whole thing isbecause the bones are there. The
(02:29):
structure is still there. Yes.The wooden parts, the roof is is
gone.
Right? There's there's smoke andand debris, and but the
structure, the the the spirit ofthat place still lives.
Zeena (02:43):
Absolutely. It doesn't die. Nothing ever dies. And it's
just making space for what's yetto come.
Brian (02:52):
And I saw, if you zoom in on that picture, you look on the
on the veranda, on on the iconicveranda with the Adirondack
chairs looking out over over thecanyon, just of the most iconic
places and views in the world.And if you look real closely,
you can still see those chairs.You can see them still lined up
(03:12):
on the deck. I'm not saying theyweren't touched. I'm not saying
they weren't burned.
But from that far away, you canstill still see that they're
that they're there. Mhmm. Andthe bones of that place are are
still there.
Zeena (03:23):
Yes.
Brian (03:24):
And they're going to rebuild it. Absolutely. It's
going to be rebuilt. It's gonna
Zeena (03:28):
be more beautiful than ever. Yes. Stronger, more
beautiful.
Brian (03:31):
Yes. It's gonna be just a chapter in the story. And I I
talked this morning. I did apost. It really helped cleanse
me this morning.
I did a post on something that Idoubt anybody else has this kind
of reaction that I that I do toto things because I can be kinda
weird like that. But it was thepicture a picture that I took
back when we were there in Mayof the cast iron radiator
(03:55):
Uh-huh. In the great room, inthe sunroom, that's down there
in the corner by Bridey, youknow, the statue of the of the
famous Bridey of Grand Canyon,the the mule, Donkey. And that
thing to me just represents thetimelessness of Grand Canyon
Lodge. Right?
That thing has probably beenoperating in that same spot for,
(04:19):
you know, close to a hundredyears. It reopened in 1937 after
the last time it burned. I betthat thing's been there ever
since. Never thought to reallyreplace it because it just sits
there, and it watchesgenerations go by, and it just
does its job, and it's timeless.And that's the entire vibe of
the North Rim to me.
It's why I love it so much andwhy on this podcast, I'm always
(04:39):
talking about finishing on theNorth Rim, finishing a rim to
rim on the North Rim becausethere's nothing like stepping
out of the rim and eithergetting a ride or walking down
to Grand Canyon Lodge, andyou're suddenly just stuck back
in time from the moment you walkinto the lodge, and you and you
go to check-in, and and they'vegot the old key system. There's
(05:00):
no key cards. Right?
Zeena (05:01):
They got the old key system in in the little in
Brian (05:03):
the little slots behind the desk, and it's just
something that you would expectto have seen a hundred years
ago, and it's still like that.Right? But that stuff is all
well, that stuff might be gone.Right? That radiator, I bet, is
still I bet it's still there inin some form, and I hope they I
hope they save it because,again, it's just the
timelessness of the North Rimand the timelessness of Grand
(05:23):
Canyon Lodge, and nothing'sgonna change.
It's still gonna be one of themost remote places in The United
States. There's only gonna beone road in and one road out.
It's not like we're gonna havethis development where some big
resort comes in there, andsuddenly it's unrecognizable. If
you saw that picture that I sawtoday, and I encourage you to go
look for it, you see the GrandCanyon Lodge is still there.
(05:47):
We've just gotta rebuild what'sinside, and it's gonna be a
glorious day when that lodgereopens again because it's gonna
happen.
Zeena (05:54):
Absolutely. Like, the fire is it's ancient. You know?
Everything that's happened Theland knows what to do. The
canyon knows what to do.
It'll all be rebuilt, and it'llall rise again.
Brian (06:11):
It's gonna be a magical day. It's it's coming. I don't
know if it's five years fromnow, ten years from now. A lot
of political bureaucratic redtape to get through, I'm sure,
but the will is gonna be there,and it's it's it's gonna happen.
So I you know, I'm excited aboutthat.
I can say that this early on.But let's talk about the the
nuts and bolts of what'shappening here because that's
(06:33):
really the point of us gettingon here is to just kinda update
you on everything that's goingon. It was only one week ago.
Was it one week? It was one weekago today that we got first got
word of this fire.
Mhmm. And it was essentially acontrolled burn, a lightning
caused fire that happened on theJuly 4. And the park decided to
(06:54):
manage it as essentially acontrolled burn. Right? They
were gonna let let it run itscourse and take care of, you
know, what fires do in terms ofthe you just mentioned, the
rebirth.
Fires are important. There arecontrolled burns on the North
Rim every year. So, you know,obviously, the Park Service saw
this, and they're like, let'sjust let this go and and manage
(07:15):
it, and they stayed on top ofit. And a few days later, it was
it was 10 acres, then it was 27acres, and everything was fine
up until Thursday or Friday whensuddenly, you know, we heard the
evacuation order, first of theGrand Canyon Lodge guests, which
was caused by the White SageFire, which is burning about 50
(07:36):
miles to the to the north. Butthen the next day or later that
day, I don't remember which oneit was, but they got the go
notification that that all NorthRim personnel had to had to get
out, and they had to get outfast.
And I heard that in some cases,they had about ten minutes, you
know, to get out of therebecause the Dragon Bravo fire
was had had jumped fire lines,and it was it was getting close.
(07:59):
It was a nightmare scenario.
Zeena (08:00):
It's crazy.
Brian (08:01):
Right. A nightmare scenario. When when the Park
Service made this decision toallow this thing to to run its
course and and and before theybefore they put it down, it
obviously got away from them andgot close to structures, and
then the winds kicked up, and itwas just it was just a nightmare
scenario. And then, you know, acouple of nights ago, I'll I'll
(08:22):
never forget it. It was justyesterday morning.
Today's Monday. Yesterday wasSunday, and I woke up at I woke
up yesterday morning justwondering what would happen
because things had started toreally go sideways on Saturday
night, and found out at 3AM thatthe that the lodge was was lost.
Zeena (08:37):
I I didn't even wanna check my phone. Yeah.
Brian (08:39):
Yeah. Yeah. Kinda when you looked at the maps that
night, Saturday night, it justit did not look good, but you
just kinda held out hope thatmaybe things would change. And,
you know, you might wonder whywhy the firefighters couldn't
couldn't defend the lodge area.They did the best they could.
I mean, I know that they dumpedtons of water, literally tons
and tons of water on the thelodge and the surrounding
(09:02):
buildings the night beforebefore they had stopped flying
for the night and just drenchedit. But, you know, the fire just
didn't care ultimately when itcame down to it. So they did
what they they did what theycould. They couldn't necessarily
be on scene because if you'refamiliar with that area, it's
essentially out on a peninsula,on a land peninsula, and there'd
be no place to there'd be noplace to hide, no place to
(09:22):
retreat to except, you know, athousand feet straight down. So
at some point, it just becamenothing nothing that they could
do.
But the update that we got thismorning from NPS, 5,700 acres is
what the Dragon Bravo fire is upto. And as of this moment, you
know, Monday afternoon, 0%containment. And it has started
(09:44):
to seep down into the canyon.We've lost 70 plus structures on
the North Rim, including, ofcourse, the lodge, the cabins, a
lot of personal residences, thewastewater treatment plant,
which is going to be a hugedeal. Nothing can get rebuilt
until until that thing's readyready to go again.
The visitor center, the giftshop, I mean, just everything is
Zeena (10:06):
just But this has happened before. The lodge has
burned down before.
Brian (10:09):
Yeah. It burned down in the thirties, 1932, and it was
rebuilt in 1937. So, yes, we weassume it it will be back. But
the fire now is down intoRoaring Springs Canyon, and
that's important to to ourhiking community because that's
where Upper North Kaibab is. Youknow, North Kaibab essentially
runs through Roaring SpringsCanyon all the way down Eye Of
(10:31):
The Needle, Manzanita, the pumphouse down there, actually,
Roaring Springs proper downthere where the where the pump
house is, and then and thenthrough Manzanita.
You know, that that's RoaringSprings Canyon. It essentially
runs all the way to the base ofthe of the North Rim. I don't
know where it is. I really wouldlike to know how far down it has
gotten. I've heard that it'sburnt down below the Coconino
(10:54):
layer, Coconino sandstone layer.
That would be Coconino overlook.I I just I I
Zeena (10:59):
don't the detail.
Brian (10:59):
We don't have the details, and the park service, I
don't think, has has gottenthose details yet. But I they
did say this morning that it wasgonna be a high priority to put
that part of the fire outburning in Roaring Springs
Canyon. They have two airtankers, two heavy helicopters,
and a lot of their attention isbeing, you know, focused on
stopping the fire in in RoaringSprings Canyon so it doesn't get
(11:22):
too much farther down. As ofnow, you know, they say that the
pump house is not threatened,which is at Roaring Springs down
below where you see the thefamous waterfall there where the
water supply for the north andsouth rims comes from out of
that out of that that aquifer,that underground aquifer there
that's inside the canyon wall.They say the pump house is not
(11:43):
threatened at this time, so thattells me that it's still, you
know, pretty far up in thecanyon.
So that's good. But, again, wesaw how things fast things
changed with this fire already,and, who knows what's gonna
happen? I'm not a fire expert.I'm not making predictions. I'm
just telling you what we know sofar.
So that's a concern, obviously.It is not going to cut off water
(12:07):
supply to the South Rim. Becauseas, you know, we talk about
often, and as I just talkedabout, the water for the South
Rim comes from the North Rim. Itcomes from Roaring Springs. It
comes from that that aquifer,and it is fed by gravity.
And this is the reason why it isnot going to affect it's not
gonna affect the water supply orwater service on the South Rim
(12:29):
is that the water from RoaringSprings is fed by gravity all
the way down the canyon toPhantom Ranch, all the way
across the Silver Bridge, allthe way up to Plateau Point. So
it's it manages by gravity to goup about 1,500 vertical feet to
Havasupai Gardens. And only whenit gets to Havasupai Gardens is
(12:51):
it pumped to the South Rim. Sogravity takes care of
everything. Nature takes care ofeverything.
Physics takes care of everythinguntil the water gets to
Havasupai Gardens, and that'swhen man takes over and you need
electricity to pump it to therim. But there's no problems at
Havasupai Gardens, and so therewill be no water service
(13:11):
disruptions on the South Rim. Sothat is good news. Electricity
has been cut off to RoaringSprings from the North Rim, So
they're not able to pump waterto the North Rim currently, but
I don't think anybody's tooconcerned about that because
there's not any infrastructureto service right now,
unfortunately. So those arethose are those are just the
(13:34):
facts, but I just I can't stopthinking about all the people
who have been affected by this,especially the employees, the
seasonal workers on the on theNorth Rim.
Zeena (13:44):
They hear us.
Brian (13:45):
The park service staff, they were given such little time
to to get out of there. Therewas one story I really wanna
share with you. And, JD, I hopeyou don't you don't mind me
doing this because you postedabout posted about it in our
hike in Grand Canyon Facebookgroup. But JD Yingling and his
wife are volunteers and havebeen for a long time. They do
the preventative search andrescue volunteering on the North
(14:07):
Rim every year.
JD's awesome, man. He's always,know, you he's always posting
pictures, and when they gorolling in there with their
fifth wheel and the when thegates open just before May
before the gates open on May 15when they're going in there to
get set up, and you can telljust how excited he is, and it
just embodies the love that thatso many have for the for the the
North Rim that, you know, peoplewill spend their retirement
(14:29):
years up there working workingfor free essentially because
they believe so strongly in inthe cause and in the in the
place. And JD and his wife foundI find out that they were in
Kanab, Utah for their days offwhen the evacuation order came.
So they had to just they werealready out of town. Right?
(14:49):
So they couldn't get back in. Ohmy god. Their fifth wheel, their
truck, all their personalbelongings left behind. And as
of today yeah. And as of today,they still didn't know anything.
They still didn't know if theyhad anything to go back to or
any personal belongings toretrieve. They still haven't
found out. Can you imagine howdifficult that would be?
Zeena (15:08):
Oh my gosh. I can't even imagine. That's horrible.
Brian (15:11):
That situation knowing. Yeah. The the not knowing part.
And think he was hoping to findout that today, but as of last
check, they had not found out.Couldn't tell
Zeena (15:21):
us anything.
Brian (15:21):
JD, we're thinking of you, and we're thinking of
everyone who you know, part oftheir part of their soul has
burnt with the with the GrandCanyon Lodge. I mean, it's it's
you hear these stories of, youknow, the the employees who
would gather on the on theveranda that we talked about
where the Adirondack chairs are,and they got the big fireplace
(15:43):
back there. And I know that wasa place where generations of
Grand Canyon Lodge North Rimemployees would would gather,
you know, to talk about theirday and to share their love of
the canyon, have a have a drink,and look out over the canyon and
see the the headlights headlampsdown below, the hikers on their
way up and are on their waydown, or look across to the
(16:05):
South Rim and see the lights andknow that just 12 miles away is
actual civilization. But to getthere, you either gotta hike 21
miles straight across, or you'vegotta drive around for four and
a half hours. That's how how youknow, it's gotta be a tight knit
community
Zeena (16:20):
Absolutely.
Brian (16:20):
Up there. So I feel so so bad for all those people who you
know, so many of them will, youknow, lose their livelihoods for
a while out of this. I know thepark service is trying to
reassign folks, and they'regonna do the best they can to
reassign folks to roles on theon the South Room in the
meantime because there's there'sno telling when when anybody's
gonna be able to get back inthere to even assess the damage.
(16:42):
Again, 0% containment on thisfire. So you just said that not
knowing, it's gotta be sobrutal.
Zeena (16:48):
Absolutely.
Brian (16:49):
Alright. Well oh, there was one piece of good news
today. Another piece of goodnews besides that picture. And
when we were in the North Rimlast year
Zeena (16:57):
Mhmm. Remember? The mules.
Brian (17:00):
The mules. And so many people have asked about the
mules.
Zeena (17:03):
I'm so glad they're safe.
Brian (17:04):
Yeah. We did find out today that they have been
evacuated and taken back totheir corral in in Southern
Utah. Mhmm. And they are safeand healthy and happy and
Perfect. Nonetheless.
Right? Probably gonna be on a ona long hiatus now because who
knows when they'll be they'll beneeded again.
Zeena (17:24):
They might know more than we think. No. They might.
Brian (17:26):
They might. Who who am I to say? But another thing that,
of course, folks in our ourgroup wanna wanna know about is
the the hiking and what thiswhat this all means. Let's talk
about what it means just justtoday. Okay?
Just today. South Kaibab, NorthKaibab, of course, and Bright
Angel Trail below HavasupaiGardens are all closed. The
(17:49):
reason for that is the smoke.It's apparently very, very thick
down there. And I heard LisaHendy, who was on the show not
too long ago, the CanyonDistrict Ranger, who's handling
a lot of this response with thefire as well, says that she
doesn't want hikers or her staffdown there in that smoke.
So it's probably it's probablypretty thick down there at
(18:11):
Phantom Ranch and on SouthKaibab. I mean, we've seen the
pictures and on on that lowerpart of Bright Angel Trail as
well. So there's no access tothe to the trails except for
Bright Angel. If you're hiking,if you're up there and you're
hoping to do rim to rim or rimto river, you can still hike on
Bright Angel. You can go as fardown as Havasupai Gardens, which
(18:33):
is four and a half miles andabout 3,000 vertical feet down.
All the same warnings apply. Itis still July, folks. That's one
of the reasons why we're in thispredicament that we are. It's so
dry. The monsoon really hasn'thit yet.
We haven't had those bigrainstorms, cloudy days. It is
dry. It is hot. It is miserable.Don't be distracted by the fact
(18:56):
that we've got this fire goingon, and then tell yourself that
everything's cool and copaceticright now because it's not.
It is still extremely dangerousto be on Bright Angel Trail in
the middle of the day. So pleasekeep that in mind. It's so easy
for tourists and experiencedhikers even to get themselves
into trouble by going downhilland thinking, man, this is so
(19:19):
easy. It's the grand deceptionwe always talk about. This is so
easy.
This really hard on me. I'mgoing down. I'm looking out over
the canyon, and I forget thatI've gotta turn around and go
back out. So don't get yourselfin that predicament where you
are on that trail anytime. Youknow, I'm gonna say between nine
and five.
The park, I think, says ten andfour. I'm saying personally nine
(19:39):
and five, and I wouldn't even beon the trail past 09:00 in the
morning or before 05:00 in theevening. It's just not happening
because it's not worth it. After04:00, you start to get the
shade. It starts to shade in,and that entirely changes the
game.
So if you go down, hang out atHavasupai Gardens, hang out in
the creek, and start up later inthe day when the shade takes
(20:00):
over because it is a brutal,brutal climb even in the best of
conditions. But in the directsun and the heat, it's downright
dangerous. Please do not be astatistic. Well, the the rangers
don't need to they they don'tneed to deal with another
Zeena (20:15):
They don't unfortunate any more. Don't need any more
than
Brian (20:17):
they're already dealing with. So please, please keep
that in mind. You know, I'malways talking about the heat,
and we just want people to staysafe. But North Kaibab, the
decision was made to shut downNorth Kaibab, access to North I
should say not North Kaibab, butaccess to the North Rim for the
entirety of the 2025 season.That means, folks, that no
(20:41):
matter what, yes, rim to rimseason is over.
You cannot do it until at leastat least May of twenty twenty
six when the North Rim typicallyreopens. Do we know if that's
gonna happen for sure? No. Ofcourse, we don't. We don't know
we don't know how long the Norththe the North Side is gonna be
(21:03):
is gonna be closed.
And no matter what, there'sgonna be no Grand Canyon Lodge.
So your only options for stayingon the North Rim next year if it
reopens will be Jacob Lake Innand Kaibab Lodge, both of which
are safe from the fires,fortunately. But rim to rim
season, no. There there it's notit's not happening. It is not
(21:25):
happening.
There's no there's no way to doit. There's no public access to
the North Rim for the rest ofthis season. It is closed. It is
shut down. Rim to rim to rim,you know, if you're gonna do an
out and back, I don't know whenthat will be available again.
Because, we talked about thefire in Roaring Springs Canyon.
We do not know what kind ofdamage there has been to the
(21:48):
North Kaibab Trail itself, andespecially the upper reaches of
it between the trailhead and,you know, say, Supai Tunnel or
Redwall Bridge. We do not knowwhat has happened. There is a
lot of vegetation up there, andI know the fire, just looking at
the map, was essentially at theNorth Kaibab Trailhead. And if
(22:09):
it has seeped down into RoaringSprings Canyon, which we know it
has, but if it's seeped downyeah.
We don't know where. It is it isit off to the east that it
seeped down into the canyon, oris it at where North Kaibab
Trailhead is and it starts todive down? We don't know that
yet. So imagine the damage anddestruction that could have been
done to that trail with fallentrees and just charred remains
(22:31):
of brush everywhere all overthose trails. We do not know.
And then what's gonna happenthis winter if we have a bad
winter and the runoff? Right?Exacerbated by the fire damage.
We do not know. So will rim torim to rim be possible the rest
of this year?
I don't know. I don't know. Iwish I had the answer to it
(22:53):
because I would love to do it. Iwould love to get up there and
put my eyes on the damage andeverything that's happened so
that I could report back toy'all, but I don't know when
that is going to be feasible.And you know, if you are
thinking about doing rim to rimto rim because it's like, oh,
I'll just do rim to rim to riminstead of rim to rim, just I'll
always throw out this warning.
Rim to rim to rim is anextraordinarily difficult hike
(23:16):
to do it in a day, and you'regonna have no choice because
there's no place to stay on theNorth Rim. You have no bailout.
If you commit to it, you'vegotta do it, and it is one of
the most difficult things thatyou can ever imagine putting
your body through to do all inone day. If Cottonwood's
reopened, if Phantoms reopened,Bright Angel Campground, you if
could break it up into multipledays, of course, that's a
(23:37):
complete game changer. So thatcould be an option as well, but
again, we don't know when thecampgrounds are gonna reopen
because they are all currentlyclosed as well.
So a lot of questions. I knowthat that there are not any
solid answers that I can giveyou right now, except that the
North Rim is closed for the restof 2025. And, you know, even if
(23:59):
it reopens in 2026 at somepoint, it's gonna look
completely different than it didjust a week ago.
Zeena (24:05):
We'll just have to see.
Brian (24:06):
Yeah. We'll just have to see. There's there's there's
really no other way to there'sreally no other way to put it.
We're just
Zeena (24:12):
still in it. We're still
Brian (24:13):
in it. We're still in it. We're still in it. And we'll
we'll we'll keep trying toupdate you and pay attention to
everything that's happening. Ofcourse, the updates are going
out regularly in our Hikin'Grand Canyon Facebook group, so
search for H I K I N, Hikin'Grand Canyon.
Our Facebook group where thereare rep updates, man, I'm
putting them out. Every time Ihear something and confirm it,
(24:34):
I'm I'm putting it out to you.You know, working hard, I think
I owe that to everyone in thiscommunity. I feel an immense
responsibility to to keep youinformed and to to encourage you
and to remind you that thecanyon's not going anywhere.
Right?
The canyon's not going anywhere.And Grand Canyon Lodge is gonna
be rebuilt. And I'll just say itagain. That day is gonna be a
(24:57):
glorious day when it happens.
Zeena (24:59):
Yes. It'll be beautiful.
Brian (25:00):
Yeah.
Zeena (25:01):
This has happened before, and it'll rise again.
Brian (25:04):
Yeah. I mean, we're only talking about 1937. So what?
Eighty eight years ago. Yep.
It was the last time that thishappened. So I I if you look at
it in the grand scheme ofthings, it's it's a blip in time
in the history of the GrandCanyon, not e not even a not
even a blink. Right. Isn't thatcrazy to think about how long
that thing has been there, thecanyon itself? Anyway, I think
(25:25):
that's all I got.
Yeah. You got anything else? Anywords of wisdom to lead to leave
us with? Because I know that youwanna do a meditation on on
fire. So maybe just give us alittle preview of the of of fire
and why fire doesn't have to bethis the evil bad guy all the
time.
Zeena (25:42):
Well, fire is is ceremony. It's medicine. It's
not destruction, and it teachesus that even in the chaos, we
don't have to collapse. We canbe reborn, and that we can
transform and transmute.
Brian (26:00):
And that's what's gonna happen. Mhmm. Right? That's all
we're looking at. You know?
It's I feel like this hit me soso hard just because of the love
that I have for the North Rimand
Zeena (26:10):
how I know.
Brian (26:11):
I I was planning to go this week. I know. You know?
Because I saw that we got somemonsoons potentially coming in
later this week, thetemperature's gonna drop into
the nineties in in Phoenix. AndI was like, okay.
I can I can heat mitigate thatand be smart and do a south my
favorite thing to do, south tonorth, spend the night at the
North Rim, just hang out, justsoak in the vibes, and, man, and
(26:34):
then walk back and walk back tothe other side? You know? That's
one of my my absolute favoritethings to do in the whole world,
and it's gonna be a while beforebefore I get to do that again.
I'm speaking Yeah. We will.
Zeena (26:45):
We'll do it again.
Brian (26:46):
We will. We were there on May 15. We were there for
opening day this year, and, man,and just everything about it. I
mean, you remember that drive upand how I I I just can't shut up
about it. There's somethingabout the North Rim, and it is
so hard to quantify.
It is. And we just you drive upthere, and you drive through
Flagstaff, which is beautiful inits own right. And then, you
(27:08):
know, you're driving through thePainted Desert and the
Vermillion Cliffs and past Lee'sFerry, the Navajo Bridge where
Zena got to do her rim to rim torim crossing the Navajo Bridge
because Marble Canyon istechnically the Grand Canyon.
That was so much fun. And thenyou get up there onto the Kaibab
Plateau after going pastVermillion Cliffs, which are
just so stunning.
And you get up to Jacob Lincoln,you go and you grab your
(27:28):
cookies, right? And then youjust continue on through the
gate to the North Rim, and youhope to eventually see the bison
down there on that forty fiveminute drive all the way to the
to the North Rim. It's a trip.And it's just so beautiful, the
aspens and the pines and therolling meadows. I just it just
it just it just makes your hearthappy.
(27:49):
And then you you get to theNorth Kaibab Trailhead, and it's
like, that's where we're gonnathat's where I'm going tomorrow.
You're dropping me off tonight,you know, or you're dropping me
off in the middle of the night.And then you continue on to
Grand Canyon Lodge and And hasstuff. It does. You see the
rustic cabins, and you gocheck-in.
You have dinner with this mostincredible view over the canyon,
and and you just, again, soak inthe vibe, sit in the chairs
(28:12):
outside, walk around. It hurtsmy heart that we're not gonna
we're not gonna have that for awhile. It was a special place
for us. But Yeah. But we'regoing back.
Zeena (28:22):
Yeah. We
Brian (28:22):
are. And Xena doesn't hike so much, but she you took
the the mules down to SupaiTunnel last time, and that was
that was very special too. So,man, I I better be careful
because I won't shut up againbecause I can I could talk about
the North Rim
Zeena (28:37):
I like talking about it?
Brian (28:38):
All day. I do too. I do too. It's just so special, and
it will be special again.There's gonna be a hole in our
hearts for for a while, but, youknow, I just encourage everybody
to keep to keep the employeesand the people who you know,
we're just visitors, you know,you and I.
You know, people have reachedout and asked, you know, how I'm
doing, how you're doing. Youknow? We're we're fine. We live
(28:59):
in Phoenix. We're we're guestsof the North Rim when we go.
And I don't wanna lose sight ofthat, of the fact that, you
know, that's all we are. And thepeople who live there and who
have given their lives to it aresomething much more, and they're
the ones who are really affectedby this. And I wanna keep them
in mind first and foremost andand ways that we can help them.
(29:21):
And I know there are GoFundMe'sgoing around, and they're
looking for donations to thefood banks. It's really early in
the process, and I will be sureto keep everyone updated on
that.
But those are the people thatthat I want everyone to
hopefully keep in their in theirthoughts and
Zeena (29:36):
The true heroes.
Brian (29:37):
They are the true heroes. They are. And and they need they
need us now. They're they'rethey're deeply affected by this.
You know?
We are to a certain extent, butI just wanna honor the the fact
that those are the people whowho we should be thinking about.
Alright. Thanks for doing thiswith me, Zena.
Zeena (29:54):
I love you.
Brian (29:55):
Yeah. I love you too. We'll we'll we'll we'll come
back and and provide moreupdates as events unfold, I
guess. But we are gonna stepaway from the podcast. I do
wanna say that that the GrandCanyon Hiker Dude show.
I'm gonna step away from thatfor a little bit here. I don't
think it's overly appropriate tobe talking about rim to rim and
(30:16):
and all that right now,especially considering we we
can't do it. We're just gonnatake a pause right now. It's the
middle of the summer anyway, andwe're gonna focus on this fire
and the the rebirth of the NorthRim, which is coming. So thank
you all.
I appreciate everyone's supportand your comments and your
engagements on social media.Trust me. I am on Facebook in
(30:38):
our hiking Grand Canyon Facebookgroup.
Zeena (30:40):
All the time.
Brian (30:41):
All day. I am. Yeah. I I again, I feel responsibility.
Zeena (30:44):
You know, especially especially voice of the Grand
Canyon.
Brian (30:46):
I well, let's not get carried away. But I But
Zeena (30:49):
You are.
Brian (30:51):
Look, I I I don't I don't I don't I'm not comfortable
hearing you say that, so don'tsay that. But I I, again, have a
responsibility, I feel like, to,to let everyone know what's
what's going on and keep youupdated the best we can. So I'm
gonna leave it, at that. This isthe Grand Canyon Hiker Dude
Show, presented by Hiken. Youknow, more than ever, Together
(31:12):
We Roam.
Right? Together We Roam.
Zeena (31:14):
Together We Roam.
Brian (31:14):
Yeah. Alright. See you next time, everybody. Thanks.
Zeena (31:16):
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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