March 5, 2025 • 27 mins
Debut author Jenna Bigelow joins the podcast to sample THE TRIBUNE TEMPTATION, set during the Roman Republic. Hear an excerpt of this marriage of convenience historical romance, and then find out what inspired Jenna to set her stories in Ancient Rome, her research, and the particular scenes she loves to write.
00:00 Introduction to the Historical Romance Sampler Podcast
01:11 Reading from 'The Tribune Temptation'
11:54 Discussion on Ancient Rome Setting
17:25 Exploring Historical Romance Tropes
23:06 Love It or Leave It: Romance Tropes
25:42 Upcoming Releases and Where to Follow Jenna
26:53 Closing Remarks
Find out more about Jenna Bigelow at www.jennabigelow.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome to the historicalromance sampler podcast.
I'm your host, Katherine Grant, andeach week I introduce you to another
amazing historical romance author.
My guest reads a little sampleof their work, and then we move
into a free ranging interview.
If you like these episodes, don'tforget to subscribe to the historical
(00:26):
romance sampler, wherever youlisten to podcasts and follow us
on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Now let's get into this week's episode.
I'm super excited to bejoined today by Jenna Bigelow.
Jenna is a historical romance authorbased in Wilmington, Delaware.
She has 11 years of Latin classesunder her belt, as well as a minor
(00:49):
in classical culture and society.
When not writing, she enjoys sewing,especially recreating historical
fashions of the 18th and 19th centuries.
And of course, she thinks aboutthe Roman Empire every day.
Jenna, thank you so much for coming on.
Thank you so much forhaving me, Katherine.
(01:09):
I'm excited to be here.
Yeah, so you're reading from yourdebut historical romance, which
happens to be set in ancient Rome.
Yes, and though I referenced the RomanEmpire meme in my bio this is actually
set during the tail end of the RomanRepublic, so around the 60s BC, if anyone
listening has any context with sort ofthat, that year, I just took for clarity.
(01:30):
I
don't, but so Republic versus Empire, Ican understand those are different things.
Yes,
yes, definitely.
So we've
got
somewhat of an elected government versus,you know, an emperor on the throne.
All right.
All right.
So the, the book is called theTribune Temptation, what do
we need to know about it?
So obviously it's set in ancient Rome.
(01:52):
It is a marriage of convenience romancebetween an underdog politician and a
woman from a very high ranking familywho is looking to sort of enter into a
marriage of convenience because she's beenunable to have children in her previous
marriage, which is not unfortunatelya good thing in ancient Rome.
So they embark on this very transactionalmarriage which of course turns
(02:15):
less transactional as time goes on.
Hmm, cool.
Well, take it away whenever you're ready.
Yes, so the excerpt that I'mgoing to be reading is from
relatively early on in the book.
It's when they are negotiatingtheir, sort of the terms of
their marriage of convenience.
So Crispina, the female protagonist hassaid that in order to agree, she wants a
(02:37):
tour of his house and to meet his mother.
So that's in progress whenwe pick up in this scene.
Okay.
Crispina glanced around the room.
It was neat and tidy, withfew personal effects visible.
Her gaze landed on the bigbed and her cheeks heated.
That was the bed she'd share withher husband, if she agreed to this.
But there was no reason for blushing.
(02:58):
Aelius already knew she couldn't conceive,so they could have no reason for any sort
of activities that would make her blush.
A moment later, the cause of her blushespoked his head around the half open door.
Crispina tensed, feeling as if she'dbeen caught somewhere she shouldn't be.
He nodded to her and kissedhis mother on the cheek.
"I see a tour is in progress.
Are you finding the house to yoursatisfaction?" "It's smaller than what I'm
(03:21):
used to, but I imagine the reduced sizemakes the household easier to manage."
The comment came out soundingmore cutting than she intended.
She winced, glancing at Gaiato see if she'd offended.
"Crispina has already suggested manyimprovements," Gaia said smoothly.
"Our house shall be the most fashionableon the block by the time she's done."
Then she moved toward the door.
(03:41):
"Let me ask the kitchen toprepare some refreshments for us."
She disappeared, leavingCrispina and Aelius alone.
Alone in a bedroom witha man she barely knew.
Her mother would choke if sheever found out about this.
The thought made her feel strangely brave.
"Your mother is quitelovely," she admitted.
Aelius smiled with onlya trace of smugness.
(04:02):
"So, now that you've been assuredthat my mother is not a bloodthirsty
harpy, may I speak to your father?"
Crispina allowed hergaze to wander over him.
Was she ready for thisman to become her husband?
Even marriage to an unpleasanthusband could not be worse than her
life now, trapped in limbo betweenbeing a maiden and a wife, an empty,
lonely future stretching before her.
(04:23):
She drew in a steadying breath.
"I have a few conditions."
"As do I." She doubted hisconditions would be the same as hers.
"You go first." "As we have discussed, youwill have complete freedom to go where you
wish, see whom you wish, do what you wish.
I will make no demands on your timeexcept for accompanying me to the
occasional dinner party." "No morethan once a week," Crispina stipulated.
(04:46):
The corners of his mouth lifted.
He liked this bargaining, she realized.
"Twice a week, during the heightof my campaign." "Which shall be
defined as the three week periodbetween when the magistrate officially
announces the election and the day thevoting takes place." Aelius nodded.
"Agreed. And there is a customarybanquet thrown by election winners
the day after the election."
Crispina dipped her head.
(05:07):
"Yes." "So, as I was saying,complete freedom, with the
exception that I require fidelity.
I cannot be made a cuckold." "Areasonable request." She acceded with
another nod, "and it will go bothways, I trust." His eyes skimmed over
her in a way that made her wish she'dworn a few more layers of clothing.
She could feel the thin linen of herdress cling to her curves, and heat
(05:30):
bloomed in the wake of his gaze.
His voice dropped lower.
"I could be satisfied with that."The heat moved to her face.
She realized she hadmiscalculated with her question.
She had only intended to showhim that she wouldn't be held to
a double standard of fidelity.
But now she'd given him reason to believethey would fully enjoy the marital bed,
which Crispina had no intention of doing.
(05:51):
She hurried to clarify.
"My condition is that there will be noneed for any sort of carnal activities."
She glanced toward the bed meaningfully.
He followed her gaze, brow furrowing.
"No need, but you just said we were tobe faithful to each other." She shrugged.
"You know I cannot bear children, sowhat's the point?" He raised an eyebrow.
"I can think of several." His voicetook on a huskiness that made her
(06:14):
stomach flutter, but she stood firm.
"That is my condition."She was no innocent maiden.
She knew the marriagebed held only obligation,
discomfort, and disappointment.
This marriage would be on herown terms as much as possible.
"You realize you're condemning us bothto celibacy," he said, "if we are to
be faithful to each other, and yetalso never lie with each other?" "If
(06:36):
matters of the flesh are so importantto you, we can end this negotiation
and never see each other again."
She took a step toward the door,but he was blocking it, so she
only succeeded in putting herselfwithin an arm's length with him.
He crossed his arms, jawtensing as he considered.
"Is this because you think you're toogood to share your body with a freedman?
Because if you think so poorlyof me, I will find another bride.
(06:58):
I know what I lack, but I won't marrysomeone who thinks I'm scum." "No." The
immediate denial came without thought.
"That's not what I think." Itpained her that he could entertain
that idea for even a moment.
What slights and insultshe must have endured.
"It's because I've been marriedbefore. I know as much as I ever
want to at the marriage bed."
(07:18):
He met her gaze for a long moment.
The defensiveness that hadflared in his eyes receded.
Replaced with something softer.
"Very well.
I accept your condition, on the premisethat we leave room to renegotiate."
"Under what circumstances?"Perhaps he should have been a
lawyer instead of a politician.
He bent down to her and puthis mouth next to her ear.
(07:40):
"When I eventually seduce you." Ahot flush spread from the place on
her neck where she could feel hisbreath all the way down to her toes.
Mostly anger at his arrogance, with anundeniable underburn of something deeper.
She grasped onto the anger, willedthe other thing to wash away,
and lifted her gaze to meet his.
"You're very lucky there's nopool of water beside you this
(08:00):
time." A grin lit his face and hepulled away, putting a respectable
distance between them once more.
"Now that that's settled, let's discussthe term of our arrangement. We must
stay married at least until the electionis over. Even if we make each other
miserable, I can't have the scandal ofa divorce when I'm trying to campaign."
Reasonable enough.
The election was less than a year away.
(08:22):
How miserable could they makeeach other in that amount of time?
"I agree." "And if I win, we should remainmarried for at least a few months after.
It would draw too much attentionto divorce right after winning.
I propoed that the maximumduration of our marriage be six
months into my term as Tribune."
That seemed fair to her, so she nodded.
There seemed to be only one thing left.
(08:44):
You" may speak to my father at yourconvenience. He's usually at home
in the mornings, on days when theSenate is not in session." His face
remained neutral, but she detecteda light of triumph in his eyes.
"I'll call on him on theearliest opportunity.
Now, some refreshment." He stood backfrom the door and held it open for her.
She swept past him and left the bedroom.
(09:05):
She knew she should have beennervous upon entering into an
agreement like this, but instead, asense of calm certainty filled her.
Finally, she had a future to look forwardto that didn't spell endless days sitting
at home, trapped in her parents house.
She could return to what trulymattered, her lessons on the Aventine.
And when her marriage to Aeliusinevitably ended, she'd walk away
(09:26):
with the property all her own.
Freedom was finally within her reach.
Ooh, what a really funlittle negotiation scene.
Yes, very unromantic for ahistorical romance novel, but I
promise it gets more romantic later.
Listen, yeah, I mean, this is justgiving us so much tension to work off of.
(09:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
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So, I am back with Jenna Bigelow, whojust read from the Tribune Temptation.
(12:01):
And I haven't read any historicalromances set in ancient Rome.
So I was really curious coming intothis, like kind of historical romance.
Is this going to be, is it going to belike really dark and violent, or is it
going to be, I live in the Regency sphere.
And so from this little scene thatyou shared with the marriage of the
(12:21):
convenience, the class differences, talkof dinner parties and political campaigns.
It's, Very fun.
Like it's giving me my Regency romancevibes of like, Oh, this is like, you
know, just like some fun power dynamics.
So I'd love to hear, first ofall, you know, how, how did you
(12:42):
think about approaching ancientRome for historical romance?
Yeah, I'm so glad you gotthat vibe because that's
exactly what I was going for.
I originally had the idea for thisseries when I was reading an excellent
Regency romance and I suddenly hadthe idea of like, how would this plot
be different if it was set in ancientRome and how would it be the same?
And so that really sparked the ideaof wanting to take sort of more
(13:04):
traditional, well trodden historicalromance tropes and and vibes and
apply it to an ancient Roman setting.
So it's definitely not dark.
It's definitely not violent.
There are some different.
social and cultural thingsthat we get to explore.
For example, as you heard in theexcerpt divorce was much more common
and accessible to both men and womenin ancient Rome than it was in, you
(13:25):
know, Regency or Victorian England.
So that's something that'slike on the top of their minds.
I think that lends a reallyfascinating aspect to a marriage of
convenience because like, there'snothing keeping them together.
They can fully plan on going theirseparate ways so there comes a point
in the story where they actually haveto make the choice to be together,
you know, they're not just stucktogether because they've got, they've
(13:46):
gotten married, and I think that'sa really fun thing to play with.
Yeah, that is really interesting.
So I know that, you know, you mentionedin your bio you have, like, years of
Latin study, which I'm sure comes withLatin culture as well, but what was
your research process to figure out howthis would play out in ancient Rome?
(14:06):
Yeah, so I was lucky to come intoit with a fairly solid foundation of
knowledge about the Roman era so Istarted taking Latin classes in 6th grade.
I continued that into high schoolwhere I actually got a perfect
score on the national Latin examtwo years in a row, which is like
the dorkiest thing to remember.
Congratulations.
I definitely peaked in high school,but and then in college as, as
(14:29):
you read in my bio, I minored inclassical culture and society, which,
you know, involved taking a lot ofhistory and like art history classes.
So I came into it with a pretty solidfoundation of like what the culture was
like obviously like as a, as an amateur.
And then I really dug into certainaspects that were relevant to this book.
So for this book being about like apolitician, I was reading a lot about the
(14:52):
political system, the election process,even like the physical process of voting.
So I was really digginginto a lot of that.
And as, as I'm sure, you know, likemaybe 1 percent of what I researched,
like made it to the book, but it wasa fascinating process nonetheless.
Yeah, that is really interesting.
And I know that you know, the 18thand 19th European culture, and
(15:12):
specifically British culture, were kindof obsessed with Roman Empire, too.
As you're researching classical societies,how much of what you're getting is
filtered through what the 19th centuryhistorians were kind of projecting onto
classical society from what they wanted?
I think today, like in, you know, the21st century, there's been a lot of
(15:37):
research done to sort of reframe how wethink about the past, like particularly
research done around like the, the rightsof women and the huge role that women
played in the ancient world, which, youknow, 18th and 19th century historians
weren't necessarily focusing on.
I've read some really interesting sortof deconstructions of what we believe
about like certain emperors, you know, forexample, like Nero is kind of infamous.
(16:00):
I read a really interesting book,like picking apart all of the terrible
things that we might believe about anemperor like Nero and looking at them
in context of what actually might havehappened and like who's, who's saying
the terrible things and how, how doesthat interpret how we, how we think
about historical figures like that?
So yeah, I think it is interestingto see like the type of scholarship
that's happening now, you know,in, in the 2020s or 2000s versus,
(16:25):
you know, a couple centuries ago.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And are there other authors who havewritten or are currently writing
ancient Roman historical romances?
Yeah, so what I've noticed I'll generalizea bit, but there's, are sort of two ends
of the spectrum when it comes to romanceset in ancient Rome or the ancient world.
(16:46):
On one end of the spectrum, there isa romance that is set in the ancient
world and often has themes of like earlyChristianity and about sort of like a
faith based romance which is super cool,but that does have a specific viewpoint.
And then on the other end of thespectrum, there is like super
high heat, like, erotic romance,like often focused on gladiators.
And that is super cool.
(17:07):
But I'm sort of more in the middlebasically like, like I mentioned earlier,
trying to bring like the traditionalromance vibes to the ancient Roman era.
So again, it's, it's notdark, it's not violent.
It's also not like big based orinspirational sort of, you know,
finding, finding that spot in the middle.
Yeah, that's really cool.
Who would you say are thehistorical romance authors who
(17:27):
have influenced your work the most?
Yeah, so there are a lot,which is why I'm going to pause
before I answer that question.
I know, it's a tough question.
So I think one of, one of the first,if not the first, historical romance
I ever read was one of Jeannie Lin'sworks set in, like, ancient China.
Yeah.
That really opened my eyes towhat historical romance could
(17:49):
be in terms of moving outside oflike, you know, Regency England.
I loved the way that she was able toblend like the sort of modern romance
vibes with something that felt veryauthentic to that period, or at least
what I understand of that period,not having any expertise in it.
So that was definitely an inspirationin how to make things feel authentic
(18:09):
and accurate while also like givingyou those, those romance butterflies.
Yeah, that's, that is areally great comparison point.
So, the Roman Republic, thisis a really ignorant question.
Does that mean that thisstory takes place in Rome?
Yes.
Okay.
But it's the only one in my seriesthat actually takes place within
(18:31):
the city of Rome so this is...the second book in this series,
part of it takes place in Rome,but part of it takes place in
like modern day, like France.
So like one of the Roman provinces.
And then the third book in my series takesplace in Ostia, which is the port city,
like just outside of Rome on the coast.
So, but you know, withinthat Mediterranean sphere.
Yeah.
And are there ruins from the RomanRepublic time for you to kind of like
(18:55):
look at and be like, Oh, this is how thehouses were arranged and things like that.
Yeah.
Yeah, you know, I think one, like, bigmisconception that people often have from
looking at a lot of ruins is that the sortof, like, white marble aesthetic, like,
in reality, like, things were painted verybrightly, they were, like, you know, very
eye catching colors and very elaboratelydecorated so that's something that, you
(19:17):
know, You know, when you're looking ata ruin of a building, you sort of have
to like project that viewpoint onto it.
But yeah, I think like Pompeii is a greatexample because it's unfortunately so well
preserved because of the volcano eruption.
They have some really beautifullypreserved, you know, mosaics and frescoes
and all of that to get inspiration from.
Yeah, that's fascinating.
(19:37):
I, I think that a fun challengethat historical romance
authors writing outside of.
Like Britain have to take on is moreworld building because the readers don't
have as much of like a Reference pointor even a like I know what's going on.
I'm so don't tell me about thewallpaper how did you think about
(19:59):
balancing world building with storyand and all of that for your novel?
Yeah, you know, I think, to be honest,as an author, like, setting description
is one of those things that's probablylike a weakness of mine, and so I
really had to be very intentional aboutincorporating that into the story to
make sure that the reader feels like theyare immersed in this world that looks
(20:19):
very different from a Regency, you know,drawing room or ballroom or what have you.
So yeah, I tried to, tosprinkle that in throughout.
I stayed away from usingany like Latin terms.
Like I used Englishequivalents where possible.
99 percent of the time because Ididn't want the reader to feel like
they're reading something foreign.
(20:39):
Like I ultimately, my goal with thesebooks is to have the reader feel like
they're stepping into something veryfamiliar, something that feels very
familiar to a reader of historicalromance and it maybe just has a
little, a few quirks here and there.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
It's really fun.
But speaking of Latin, are thereany pet peeves or common pet peeves?
(21:01):
mistakes or misassumptions thatyou see people making when they
put Latin into historical romances.
Because I feel like there is a little bitof like, a character will have studied
Latin at Eton and so they're using it.
And I don't have any context forLatin so I just take it as it comes.
I don't think I've like noticed anythingspecific the question I used to get a lot
(21:22):
like when I was more actively studying,you know, in school was like, well,
can you speak Latin, and I would alwayshave to sort of explain to people that
you don't learn Latin, like you learnlike a modern language like I have no
ability to like rattle off a sentencein Latin like I'm learning how to
analyze texts and translate in writing.
So I think as long as you don't havecharacters, like, rattling off, like,
(21:43):
conversation to each other, unlessthey've specifically studied that for some
reason, I, I think it's, it's all good.
Yeah.
And did you get to any, did you get toread any new texts for this in Latin?
Just for fun.
I did go back to the poet Catulluswho is a staple of, like, the
high school Latin curriculum.
(22:03):
He wrote a lot of love poetry.
He's actually a prominentside character in the novel.
So I went back to his poems and sortof read back through them just to,
like, pull out a couple of referenceshere and there to sprinkle in because
he does feature in the, in the novel.
Yeah.
Oh, that's really fun.
Yeah.
Well, and then we've, we've spent alot of time talking about the setting,
but Beyond setting, what would yousay draws you into writing a story?
(22:27):
Are you more of a dialogue person,a trope person, a character person?
I think really what draws me in islike the romantic and like honestly the
sexual dynamic between two characterslike that's the initial spark for me.
And once I sort of have thatconceived in my mind, I sort
of build the story around it.
(22:48):
So like, honestly, Ilove writing sex scenes.
So there's, you know, a decentnumber of those in, in the story.
It's, it's, I wouldn't say it's high heat.
It's like medium to high heat.
But that aspect of romance is,is one of my favorite and that's
really what, what sort of createsthe rest of the story for me.
Oh, that's so interesting.
That's very fun.
I think let's play love it or leave it.
(23:09):
[Musical Interlude]
All right.
Do you love it or leave it?
Protagonists meet in thefirst 10 percent of the story.
Love it.
I think, you know, the sooner we jumpinto the plot, the better, so bring it on.
Love it or leave it.
Dual point of view narration.
Love it.
(23:30):
One of my favorite things is getting tosee one character through the eyes of
the other character, and particularlyhow their perceptions about each other
evolve through the course of the story.
I think that's one of thethings that's really possible
to highlight with dual POV.
Yeah.
Love it or leave it, thirdperson, past tense narration.
(23:50):
Love it.
I think that's pretty much thestandard in historical romance these
days, and that's how I write, so.
Alright, love it or leave it,third act, breakup, or dark moment.
I sound like a brokenrecord, but I love it.
I think, you know, you've spent the wholebook, convincing the, the readers and
convincing the characters that they'remeant to be together, and I think when
you have that moment of them on the vergeof losing this, you know, relationship
(24:15):
and this love, that's really when you,you recognize the stakes and, and see
what's, what they're at risk of losing.
So I love that high angst moment.
Love it or leave it, alwaysend with an epilogue.
Leave it.
I don't think every storyrequires an epilogue and not all
of mine do, but I, I like them
but not, not
beholden to them.
Alright.
(24:36):
Love it or leave it.
Always share researchin your author's note.
I would say leave it.
You know, as an author I love doingresearch, but to be completely
honest with you, as a reader,like I tend to skip authors notes.
I feel super bad saying that 'causeI know authors put a lot of time and
energy into writing those, but I'd ratherget the research through the story.
And I'm less interested in like
(24:57):
an author's note, personally.
Yeah, all right.
And then are there any other romance rulesthat I didn't ask about that you break?
I'm mostly a rule follower.
The one thing I think I'm towing theline with in book two of this series
is the female protagonist is marriedto someone else at the beginning,
(25:17):
which is usually a big no no.
I think I've made it workby Making it very clear that
there's no, like, emotional orphysical intimacy between them.
It was an arranged marriage, and nospoilers, but the husband is well out
of the way by the time her relationshipwith the male protagonist kicks off.
So I'm hoping I've workedaround that, but I know that's a
little bit iffy for some people.
(25:37):
Ooh, fun.
Well, I love it when a rule is broken, so.
So the Tribune Temptation is out verysoon and so go get it on Kindle Unlimited.
And then there's a whole seriesas you've been talking about so
start now so that we can all stayup to date as the books come out.
(25:57):
Yeah so book two should be out inearly May and then book three is set
to come out in July so it'll be a busycouple of months But there should be
at least three more ancient romancesin the world by the time I'm done.
Nice.
And where can readers followyou besides getting your books?
Yes.
So my website is jennabigelow.
com.
By the time this episode isout, I will have released a
(26:20):
free novella to my newsletter.
So if you sign up to my newsletter, youcan get a taste of my writing style.
And then I'm also on Instagramand threads at jennabigelowwrites.
Awesome.
Well, Jenna, I reallyappreciate you coming on.
I hope I didn't ask too manydumb questions about the
Roman Republic slash Empire.
I'm really excited to have this storycoming out and to continue to see
(26:43):
historical romance get new, interestingeras and settings and people.
So thank you for writing it.
And thanks for coming on the podcast.
So much.
That's it for this week!
Don't forget to subscribe to theHistorical Romance Sampler wherever
you listen, and follow us onInstagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
(27:04):
Until next week, happy reading!
Welcome to the historicalromance sampler podcast.
I'm your host, Katherine Grant, andeach week I introduce you to another
amazing historical romance author.
My guest reads a little sampleof their work, and then we move
into a free ranging interview.
If you like these episodes, don'tforget to subscribe to the historical
(00:26):
romance sampler, wherever youlisten to podcasts and follow us
on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Now let's get into this week's episode.
I'm super excited to bejoined today by Jenna Bigelow.
Jenna is a historical romance authorbased in Wilmington, Delaware.
She has 11 years of Latin classesunder her belt, as well as a minor
(00:49):
in classical culture and society.
When not writing, she enjoys sewing,especially recreating historical
fashions of the 18th and 19th centuries.
And of course, she thinks aboutthe Roman Empire every day.
Jenna, thank you so much for coming on.
Thank you so much forhaving me, Katherine.
(01:09):
I'm excited to be here.
Yeah, so you're reading from yourdebut historical romance, which
happens to be set in ancient Rome.
Yes, and though I referenced the RomanEmpire meme in my bio this is actually
set during the tail end of the RomanRepublic, so around the 60s BC, if anyone
listening has any context with sort ofthat, that year, I just took for clarity.
(01:30):
I
don't, but so Republic versus Empire, Ican understand those are different things.
Yes,
yes, definitely.
So we've
got
somewhat of an elected government versus,you know, an emperor on the throne.
All right.
All right.
So the, the book is called theTribune Temptation, what do
we need to know about it?
So obviously it's set in ancient Rome.
(01:52):
It is a marriage of convenience romancebetween an underdog politician and a
woman from a very high ranking familywho is looking to sort of enter into a
marriage of convenience because she's beenunable to have children in her previous
marriage, which is not unfortunatelya good thing in ancient Rome.
So they embark on this very transactionalmarriage which of course turns
(02:15):
less transactional as time goes on.
Hmm, cool.
Well, take it away whenever you're ready.
Yes, so the excerpt that I'mgoing to be reading is from
relatively early on in the book.
It's when they are negotiatingtheir, sort of the terms of
their marriage of convenience.
So Crispina, the female protagonist hassaid that in order to agree, she wants a
(02:37):
tour of his house and to meet his mother.
So that's in progress whenwe pick up in this scene.
Okay.
Crispina glanced around the room.
It was neat and tidy, withfew personal effects visible.
Her gaze landed on the bigbed and her cheeks heated.
That was the bed she'd share withher husband, if she agreed to this.
But there was no reason for blushing.
(02:58):
Aelius already knew she couldn't conceive,so they could have no reason for any sort
of activities that would make her blush.
A moment later, the cause of her blushespoked his head around the half open door.
Crispina tensed, feeling as if she'dbeen caught somewhere she shouldn't be.
He nodded to her and kissedhis mother on the cheek.
"I see a tour is in progress.
Are you finding the house to yoursatisfaction?" "It's smaller than what I'm
(03:21):
used to, but I imagine the reduced sizemakes the household easier to manage."
The comment came out soundingmore cutting than she intended.
She winced, glancing at Gaiato see if she'd offended.
"Crispina has already suggested manyimprovements," Gaia said smoothly.
"Our house shall be the most fashionableon the block by the time she's done."
Then she moved toward the door.
(03:41):
"Let me ask the kitchen toprepare some refreshments for us."
She disappeared, leavingCrispina and Aelius alone.
Alone in a bedroom witha man she barely knew.
Her mother would choke if sheever found out about this.
The thought made her feel strangely brave.
"Your mother is quitelovely," she admitted.
Aelius smiled with onlya trace of smugness.
(04:02):
"So, now that you've been assuredthat my mother is not a bloodthirsty
harpy, may I speak to your father?"
Crispina allowed hergaze to wander over him.
Was she ready for thisman to become her husband?
Even marriage to an unpleasanthusband could not be worse than her
life now, trapped in limbo betweenbeing a maiden and a wife, an empty,
lonely future stretching before her.
(04:23):
She drew in a steadying breath.
"I have a few conditions."
"As do I." She doubted hisconditions would be the same as hers.
"You go first." "As we have discussed, youwill have complete freedom to go where you
wish, see whom you wish, do what you wish.
I will make no demands on your timeexcept for accompanying me to the
occasional dinner party." "No morethan once a week," Crispina stipulated.
(04:46):
The corners of his mouth lifted.
He liked this bargaining, she realized.
"Twice a week, during the heightof my campaign." "Which shall be
defined as the three week periodbetween when the magistrate officially
announces the election and the day thevoting takes place." Aelius nodded.
"Agreed. And there is a customarybanquet thrown by election winners
the day after the election."
Crispina dipped her head.
(05:07):
"Yes." "So, as I was saying,complete freedom, with the
exception that I require fidelity.
I cannot be made a cuckold." "Areasonable request." She acceded with
another nod, "and it will go bothways, I trust." His eyes skimmed over
her in a way that made her wish she'dworn a few more layers of clothing.
She could feel the thin linen of herdress cling to her curves, and heat
(05:30):
bloomed in the wake of his gaze.
His voice dropped lower.
"I could be satisfied with that."The heat moved to her face.
She realized she hadmiscalculated with her question.
She had only intended to showhim that she wouldn't be held to
a double standard of fidelity.
But now she'd given him reason to believethey would fully enjoy the marital bed,
which Crispina had no intention of doing.
(05:51):
She hurried to clarify.
"My condition is that there will be noneed for any sort of carnal activities."
She glanced toward the bed meaningfully.
He followed her gaze, brow furrowing.
"No need, but you just said we were tobe faithful to each other." She shrugged.
"You know I cannot bear children, sowhat's the point?" He raised an eyebrow.
"I can think of several." His voicetook on a huskiness that made her
(06:14):
stomach flutter, but she stood firm.
"That is my condition."She was no innocent maiden.
She knew the marriagebed held only obligation,
discomfort, and disappointment.
This marriage would be on herown terms as much as possible.
"You realize you're condemning us bothto celibacy," he said, "if we are to
be faithful to each other, and yetalso never lie with each other?" "If
(06:36):
matters of the flesh are so importantto you, we can end this negotiation
and never see each other again."
She took a step toward the door,but he was blocking it, so she
only succeeded in putting herselfwithin an arm's length with him.
He crossed his arms, jawtensing as he considered.
"Is this because you think you're toogood to share your body with a freedman?
Because if you think so poorlyof me, I will find another bride.
(06:58):
I know what I lack, but I won't marrysomeone who thinks I'm scum." "No." The
immediate denial came without thought.
"That's not what I think." Itpained her that he could entertain
that idea for even a moment.
What slights and insultshe must have endured.
"It's because I've been marriedbefore. I know as much as I ever
want to at the marriage bed."
(07:18):
He met her gaze for a long moment.
The defensiveness that hadflared in his eyes receded.
Replaced with something softer.
"Very well.
I accept your condition, on the premisethat we leave room to renegotiate."
"Under what circumstances?"Perhaps he should have been a
lawyer instead of a politician.
He bent down to her and puthis mouth next to her ear.
(07:40):
"When I eventually seduce you." Ahot flush spread from the place on
her neck where she could feel hisbreath all the way down to her toes.
Mostly anger at his arrogance, with anundeniable underburn of something deeper.
She grasped onto the anger, willedthe other thing to wash away,
and lifted her gaze to meet his.
"You're very lucky there's nopool of water beside you this
(08:00):
time." A grin lit his face and hepulled away, putting a respectable
distance between them once more.
"Now that that's settled, let's discussthe term of our arrangement. We must
stay married at least until the electionis over. Even if we make each other
miserable, I can't have the scandal ofa divorce when I'm trying to campaign."
Reasonable enough.
The election was less than a year away.
(08:22):
How miserable could they makeeach other in that amount of time?
"I agree." "And if I win, we should remainmarried for at least a few months after.
It would draw too much attentionto divorce right after winning.
I propoed that the maximumduration of our marriage be six
months into my term as Tribune."
That seemed fair to her, so she nodded.
There seemed to be only one thing left.
(08:44):
You" may speak to my father at yourconvenience. He's usually at home
in the mornings, on days when theSenate is not in session." His face
remained neutral, but she detecteda light of triumph in his eyes.
"I'll call on him on theearliest opportunity.
Now, some refreshment." He stood backfrom the door and held it open for her.
She swept past him and left the bedroom.
(09:05):
She knew she should have beennervous upon entering into an
agreement like this, but instead, asense of calm certainty filled her.
Finally, she had a future to look forwardto that didn't spell endless days sitting
at home, trapped in her parents house.
She could return to what trulymattered, her lessons on the Aventine.
And when her marriage to Aeliusinevitably ended, she'd walk away
(09:26):
with the property all her own.
Freedom was finally within her reach.
Ooh, what a really funlittle negotiation scene.
Yes, very unromantic for ahistorical romance novel, but I
promise it gets more romantic later.
Listen, yeah, I mean, this is justgiving us so much tension to work off of.
(09:47):
Yeah.
Yeah.
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So, I am back with Jenna Bigelow, whojust read from the Tribune Temptation.
(12:01):
And I haven't read any historicalromances set in ancient Rome.
So I was really curious coming intothis, like kind of historical romance.
Is this going to be, is it going to belike really dark and violent, or is it
going to be, I live in the Regency sphere.
And so from this little scene thatyou shared with the marriage of the
(12:21):
convenience, the class differences, talkof dinner parties and political campaigns.
It's, Very fun.
Like it's giving me my Regency romancevibes of like, Oh, this is like, you
know, just like some fun power dynamics.
So I'd love to hear, first ofall, you know, how, how did you
(12:42):
think about approaching ancientRome for historical romance?
Yeah, I'm so glad you gotthat vibe because that's
exactly what I was going for.
I originally had the idea for thisseries when I was reading an excellent
Regency romance and I suddenly hadthe idea of like, how would this plot
be different if it was set in ancientRome and how would it be the same?
And so that really sparked the ideaof wanting to take sort of more
(13:04):
traditional, well trodden historicalromance tropes and and vibes and
apply it to an ancient Roman setting.
So it's definitely not dark.
It's definitely not violent.
There are some different.
social and cultural thingsthat we get to explore.
For example, as you heard in theexcerpt divorce was much more common
and accessible to both men and womenin ancient Rome than it was in, you
(13:25):
know, Regency or Victorian England.
So that's something that'slike on the top of their minds.
I think that lends a reallyfascinating aspect to a marriage of
convenience because like, there'snothing keeping them together.
They can fully plan on going theirseparate ways so there comes a point
in the story where they actually haveto make the choice to be together,
you know, they're not just stucktogether because they've got, they've
(13:46):
gotten married, and I think that'sa really fun thing to play with.
Yeah, that is really interesting.
So I know that, you know, you mentionedin your bio you have, like, years of
Latin study, which I'm sure comes withLatin culture as well, but what was
your research process to figure out howthis would play out in ancient Rome?
(14:06):
Yeah, so I was lucky to come intoit with a fairly solid foundation of
knowledge about the Roman era so Istarted taking Latin classes in 6th grade.
I continued that into high schoolwhere I actually got a perfect
score on the national Latin examtwo years in a row, which is like
the dorkiest thing to remember.
Congratulations.
I definitely peaked in high school,but and then in college as, as
(14:29):
you read in my bio, I minored inclassical culture and society, which,
you know, involved taking a lot ofhistory and like art history classes.
So I came into it with a pretty solidfoundation of like what the culture was
like obviously like as a, as an amateur.
And then I really dug into certainaspects that were relevant to this book.
So for this book being about like apolitician, I was reading a lot about the
(14:52):
political system, the election process,even like the physical process of voting.
So I was really digginginto a lot of that.
And as, as I'm sure, you know, likemaybe 1 percent of what I researched,
like made it to the book, but it wasa fascinating process nonetheless.
Yeah, that is really interesting.
And I know that you know, the 18thand 19th European culture, and
(15:12):
specifically British culture, were kindof obsessed with Roman Empire, too.
As you're researching classical societies,how much of what you're getting is
filtered through what the 19th centuryhistorians were kind of projecting onto
classical society from what they wanted?
I think today, like in, you know, the21st century, there's been a lot of
(15:37):
research done to sort of reframe how wethink about the past, like particularly
research done around like the, the rightsof women and the huge role that women
played in the ancient world, which, youknow, 18th and 19th century historians
weren't necessarily focusing on.
I've read some really interesting sortof deconstructions of what we believe
about like certain emperors, you know, forexample, like Nero is kind of infamous.
(16:00):
I read a really interesting book,like picking apart all of the terrible
things that we might believe about anemperor like Nero and looking at them
in context of what actually might havehappened and like who's, who's saying
the terrible things and how, how doesthat interpret how we, how we think
about historical figures like that?
So yeah, I think it is interestingto see like the type of scholarship
that's happening now, you know,in, in the 2020s or 2000s versus,
(16:25):
you know, a couple centuries ago.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And are there other authors who havewritten or are currently writing
ancient Roman historical romances?
Yeah, so what I've noticed I'll generalizea bit, but there's, are sort of two ends
of the spectrum when it comes to romanceset in ancient Rome or the ancient world.
(16:46):
On one end of the spectrum, there isa romance that is set in the ancient
world and often has themes of like earlyChristianity and about sort of like a
faith based romance which is super cool,but that does have a specific viewpoint.
And then on the other end of thespectrum, there is like super
high heat, like, erotic romance,like often focused on gladiators.
And that is super cool.
(17:07):
But I'm sort of more in the middlebasically like, like I mentioned earlier,
trying to bring like the traditionalromance vibes to the ancient Roman era.
So again, it's, it's notdark, it's not violent.
It's also not like big based orinspirational sort of, you know,
finding, finding that spot in the middle.
Yeah, that's really cool.
Who would you say are thehistorical romance authors who
(17:27):
have influenced your work the most?
Yeah, so there are a lot,which is why I'm going to pause
before I answer that question.
I know, it's a tough question.
So I think one of, one of the first,if not the first, historical romance
I ever read was one of Jeannie Lin'sworks set in, like, ancient China.
Yeah.
That really opened my eyes towhat historical romance could
(17:49):
be in terms of moving outside oflike, you know, Regency England.
I loved the way that she was able toblend like the sort of modern romance
vibes with something that felt veryauthentic to that period, or at least
what I understand of that period,not having any expertise in it.
So that was definitely an inspirationin how to make things feel authentic
(18:09):
and accurate while also like givingyou those, those romance butterflies.
Yeah, that's, that is areally great comparison point.
So, the Roman Republic, thisis a really ignorant question.
Does that mean that thisstory takes place in Rome?
Yes.
Okay.
But it's the only one in my seriesthat actually takes place within
(18:31):
the city of Rome so this is...the second book in this series,
part of it takes place in Rome,but part of it takes place in
like modern day, like France.
So like one of the Roman provinces.
And then the third book in my series takesplace in Ostia, which is the port city,
like just outside of Rome on the coast.
So, but you know, withinthat Mediterranean sphere.
Yeah.
And are there ruins from the RomanRepublic time for you to kind of like
(18:55):
look at and be like, Oh, this is how thehouses were arranged and things like that.
Yeah.
Yeah, you know, I think one, like, bigmisconception that people often have from
looking at a lot of ruins is that the sortof, like, white marble aesthetic, like,
in reality, like, things were painted verybrightly, they were, like, you know, very
eye catching colors and very elaboratelydecorated so that's something that, you
(19:17):
know, You know, when you're looking ata ruin of a building, you sort of have
to like project that viewpoint onto it.
But yeah, I think like Pompeii is a greatexample because it's unfortunately so well
preserved because of the volcano eruption.
They have some really beautifullypreserved, you know, mosaics and frescoes
and all of that to get inspiration from.
Yeah, that's fascinating.
(19:37):
I, I think that a fun challengethat historical romance
authors writing outside of.
Like Britain have to take on is moreworld building because the readers don't
have as much of like a Reference pointor even a like I know what's going on.
I'm so don't tell me about thewallpaper how did you think about
(19:59):
balancing world building with storyand and all of that for your novel?
Yeah, you know, I think, to be honest,as an author, like, setting description
is one of those things that's probablylike a weakness of mine, and so I
really had to be very intentional aboutincorporating that into the story to
make sure that the reader feels like theyare immersed in this world that looks
(20:19):
very different from a Regency, you know,drawing room or ballroom or what have you.
So yeah, I tried to, tosprinkle that in throughout.
I stayed away from usingany like Latin terms.
Like I used Englishequivalents where possible.
99 percent of the time because Ididn't want the reader to feel like
they're reading something foreign.
(20:39):
Like I ultimately, my goal with thesebooks is to have the reader feel like
they're stepping into something veryfamiliar, something that feels very
familiar to a reader of historicalromance and it maybe just has a
little, a few quirks here and there.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
It's really fun.
But speaking of Latin, are thereany pet peeves or common pet peeves?
(21:01):
mistakes or misassumptions thatyou see people making when they
put Latin into historical romances.
Because I feel like there is a little bitof like, a character will have studied
Latin at Eton and so they're using it.
And I don't have any context forLatin so I just take it as it comes.
I don't think I've like noticed anythingspecific the question I used to get a lot
(21:22):
like when I was more actively studying,you know, in school was like, well,
can you speak Latin, and I would alwayshave to sort of explain to people that
you don't learn Latin, like you learnlike a modern language like I have no
ability to like rattle off a sentencein Latin like I'm learning how to
analyze texts and translate in writing.
So I think as long as you don't havecharacters, like, rattling off, like,
(21:43):
conversation to each other, unlessthey've specifically studied that for some
reason, I, I think it's, it's all good.
Yeah.
And did you get to any, did you get toread any new texts for this in Latin?
Just for fun.
I did go back to the poet Catulluswho is a staple of, like, the
high school Latin curriculum.
(22:03):
He wrote a lot of love poetry.
He's actually a prominentside character in the novel.
So I went back to his poems and sortof read back through them just to,
like, pull out a couple of referenceshere and there to sprinkle in because
he does feature in the, in the novel.
Yeah.
Oh, that's really fun.
Yeah.
Well, and then we've, we've spent alot of time talking about the setting,
but Beyond setting, what would yousay draws you into writing a story?
(22:27):
Are you more of a dialogue person,a trope person, a character person?
I think really what draws me in islike the romantic and like honestly the
sexual dynamic between two characterslike that's the initial spark for me.
And once I sort of have thatconceived in my mind, I sort
of build the story around it.
(22:48):
So like, honestly, Ilove writing sex scenes.
So there's, you know, a decentnumber of those in, in the story.
It's, it's, I wouldn't say it's high heat.
It's like medium to high heat.
But that aspect of romance is,is one of my favorite and that's
really what, what sort of createsthe rest of the story for me.
Oh, that's so interesting.
That's very fun.
I think let's play love it or leave it.
(23:09):
[Musical Interlude]
All right.
Do you love it or leave it?
Protagonists meet in thefirst 10 percent of the story.
Love it.
I think, you know, the sooner we jumpinto the plot, the better, so bring it on.
Love it or leave it.
Dual point of view narration.
Love it.
(23:30):
One of my favorite things is getting tosee one character through the eyes of
the other character, and particularlyhow their perceptions about each other
evolve through the course of the story.
I think that's one of thethings that's really possible
to highlight with dual POV.
Yeah.
Love it or leave it, thirdperson, past tense narration.
(23:50):
Love it.
I think that's pretty much thestandard in historical romance these
days, and that's how I write, so.
Alright, love it or leave it,third act, breakup, or dark moment.
I sound like a brokenrecord, but I love it.
I think, you know, you've spent the wholebook, convincing the, the readers and
convincing the characters that they'remeant to be together, and I think when
you have that moment of them on the vergeof losing this, you know, relationship
(24:15):
and this love, that's really when you,you recognize the stakes and, and see
what's, what they're at risk of losing.
So I love that high angst moment.
Love it or leave it, alwaysend with an epilogue.
Leave it.
I don't think every storyrequires an epilogue and not all
of mine do, but I, I like them
but not, not
beholden to them.
Alright.
(24:36):
Love it or leave it.
Always share researchin your author's note.
I would say leave it.
You know, as an author I love doingresearch, but to be completely
honest with you, as a reader,like I tend to skip authors notes.
I feel super bad saying that 'causeI know authors put a lot of time and
energy into writing those, but I'd ratherget the research through the story.
And I'm less interested in like
(24:57):
an author's note, personally.
Yeah, all right.
And then are there any other romance rulesthat I didn't ask about that you break?
I'm mostly a rule follower.
The one thing I think I'm towing theline with in book two of this series
is the female protagonist is marriedto someone else at the beginning,
(25:17):
which is usually a big no no.
I think I've made it workby Making it very clear that
there's no, like, emotional orphysical intimacy between them.
It was an arranged marriage, and nospoilers, but the husband is well out
of the way by the time her relationshipwith the male protagonist kicks off.
So I'm hoping I've workedaround that, but I know that's a
little bit iffy for some people.
(25:37):
Ooh, fun.
Well, I love it when a rule is broken, so.
So the Tribune Temptation is out verysoon and so go get it on Kindle Unlimited.
And then there's a whole seriesas you've been talking about so
start now so that we can all stayup to date as the books come out.
(25:57):
Yeah so book two should be out inearly May and then book three is set
to come out in July so it'll be a busycouple of months But there should be
at least three more ancient romancesin the world by the time I'm done.
Nice.
And where can readers followyou besides getting your books?
Yes.
So my website is jennabigelow.
com.
By the time this episode isout, I will have released a
(26:20):
free novella to my newsletter.
So if you sign up to my newsletter, youcan get a taste of my writing style.
And then I'm also on Instagramand threads at jennabigelowwrites.
Awesome.
Well, Jenna, I reallyappreciate you coming on.
I hope I didn't ask too manydumb questions about the
Roman Republic slash Empire.
I'm really excited to have this storycoming out and to continue to see
(26:43):
historical romance get new, interestingeras and settings and people.
So thank you for writing it.
And thanks for coming on the podcast.
So much.
That's it for this week!
Don't forget to subscribe to theHistorical Romance Sampler wherever
you listen, and follow us onInstagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
(27:04):
Until next week, happy reading!
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