June 4, 2025 • 34 mins
Misty Urban returns to the podcast to read from MISS GREGOIRE'S BEGINNING, her entry in the SUFFRAGETTE UPRISING series. We talk about themes of independence, feminism, and the historical context behind her characters. Misty also takes on the challenges of integrating feminist narratives into historical romance.
00:00 Welcome to the Historical Romance Sampler Podcast
02:18 Miss Gregoire's Beginning: A Reading by Misty Urban
15:32 In-Depth Discussion with Misty Urban
27:41 Fun and Games: Would You Rather?
33:42 Where to Find Misty Urban and Her Books
34:32 Closing Remarks and Subscription Reminder
Find out more about Misty Urban: https://mistyurban.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Welcome to the historicalromance sampler podcast.
I'm your host, Katherine Grant, andeach week I introduce you to another
amazing historical romance author.
My guest reads a little sampleof their work, and then we move
into a free ranging interview.
If you like these episodes, don'tforget to subscribe to the historical
(00:24):
romance sampler, wherever youlisten to podcasts and follow us
on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Now let's get into this week's episode.
I am super excited to be joinedtoday for another in my special
series of authors reading from theSuffragette Uprising series today.
It's Misty urban, and Misty, if youhaven't listened to our other episode,
(00:50):
which you should do., Misty fell in lovewith stories at an early age and has
spent her life among books as a teacher,scholar, editor, writer, and bookseller.
Her favorite stories take you new places,teach you new things, and end with a win.
She especially likes romances aboutunconventional heroines who defy the odds
(01:11):
and the unexpected heroes who woo them.
So that's mostly what she writeswhen she puts down the book.
She likes to take long walks, dragher family to new places, or hang out
around water, dreaming up new stories.
Misty, thanks so much for coming on again.
Thanks for having me.
This is such a pleasure.
Yeah, so year book three in theSuffragette Uprising series.
(01:34):
I'm the lucky Third.
Yes.
And so just in case listeners are hoppingon for the first time, I'm doing an
interview with every author in the series,beginning with Andrea Janelle, whose
book Spine of Steel came out in April.
Then she interviewed me for my book, whichcame out in May in the Wide open light.
And now we have you forMiss Gregoire's beginning.
(01:56):
Yes.
I'm so delighted to bepart of this series.
I'm such a fan of suffragettes ingeneral, strong-minded, independent women.
Yeah, I, I'm, I'm a fan of the series too.
I'm excited to be a part of it.
I'm so grateful to Andreafor putting it together.
What can, what would you like listenersto know about Miss Gregoire's Beginning?
(02:18):
So in the spirit of the suffragetteuprising, Miss Gregoire has a mission.
She is coming to a new land with a cause.
She wants to see justicedone for her family.
And of course, because this is ahistorical romance novella series,
there's also a lover that she encounters.
(02:39):
And at First she thinks he's goingto be an obstacle, then he becomes an
ally, and then of course he becomeseventually the love of her life.
He supports her cause.
He leads her to achieve and fulfillher dreams, and he becomes part
of her future in really unexpectedways that she didn't imagine.
For readers of my other historicalromances in the Ladies least Likely
(03:03):
series, there has been in the backgroundof several books, this Mysterious Miss
Gregoire's School, or Miss Gregoire'sAcademy for Genteel Young Ladies,
and it's been established in Bath.
And what people don't know isthat this is a breeding ground
for radical ambitious women.
Miss Gregoire is the kind of instructorwho teaches her girls whatever they want.
(03:24):
She allows them to exerciseindependent thought.
She encourages their ambitions, andshe's always been in my mind as this
background figure who is you know,quietly rearing these subversive women
who then go on to be the heroines of myladies, least likely in a lot of cases.
And so when this opportunity arose towrite about a woman, I thought, well,
(03:46):
I'm gonna take this chance to exploreher beginning, because I always knew
she had a shady past and this wasmy chance to find out more about it.
I love it and I got a chance to readan early draft and I love the story.
I love Olympe and I love Michael.
So is there anything we need to know aboutthe scene before you start reading it?
(04:07):
Olympe is from Alsace, whichis a contested part of Europe
between Germany and France.
It's been in the 18th century,switched back and forth several times.
It's predominantly German in character.
It has its own language, it has its ownvery unique customs and culture, but it
is currently ruled in the time of thestory by the French, so they end up,
(04:29):
please imagine, as I'm reading, thattheir common language is in fact French.
Olympe's
English is not very good atthis time, and Michael doesn't
know much about Alsace at all.
Certainly does not speak Alsation.
So perhaps that's the only setup.
She's coming from very far away.
I'll start with the verybeginning, chapter one.
(04:51):
Her arms were stiff wooden paddles.
Her feet tree stumps.
If rocks hidden beneath the gray bluewaves cut at her feet, she didn't notice.
Her body was numb and had been sinceshe'd left from the rowboat and
the man who'd meant to kill her.
Of course, he didn't say in somany words he meant to kill her.
He'd whispered of something else,something he meant to do with
(05:11):
her once they touched shore.
Something he said would ensure hersafe passage through Plymouth and not
a glance from the customs officer orthe port officials, something that
would make all this worth, his while,troublesome female that she was.
What he offered was the opposite of safe.
She'd taken her chances on the sea.
Of course now, she was going todie on this beach if her heavy
(05:32):
skirts allowed her to reach shore.
She moved her limbs forward through willalone, dragging her legs through the
water, scooping it away with her palms.
The beach floated ever out of reach, asilvery crescent glowing with early dawn.
Her body was numb, but her hearthad been numb for far longer.
At least she had chosen her deathlike Gregor and Matis had, putting
(05:53):
themselves in the way of Prussian shellfor the cause of France and glory.
She had not been tortured and snuffedout in a prison cell like her father,
nor pushed to starvation like othersof her homeland, than felled by
plague like wheat in the field.
There was something almost noble aboutit, dying alone on a foreign shore.
She'd failed in her quest, but no matter.
(06:15):
So many thousands had failed alreadyand would fail again trying to protect
their homes from the ravening maw of war.
Of course, she had chosen to wade ashorewhere there was barely a shore at all.
Just stark gray cliffs risingstraight from the sea and a
hammered silver sky beyond.
She laughed at herself, then spitout the salt water that leapt
into her mouth from the spray.
(06:35):
Her family would say this wastypical Olympe to choose the
harder way when there was a softer.
Overburdening her basket atmarket rather than selecting no
more than what she could carry.
Walking to the next mountain topvillage, rather than taking a cart.
Swimming la marche, instead of takingthe smuggler ship to shore and paying
his unscrupulous fee all at once.
(06:56):
The tide gave way as if theearth had tilted, and she
slogged onto a pebbled shore.
The tiny rocks were rough and coolas she fell to her hands and knees.
She rubbed one between her fingers,surprised at the texture tracing the
tiny prints embedded in the hard surface.
One design was an arch withflares, depending from the spine.
(07:16):
Another sunburst curling inon itself like a pill bug.
Secret symbols or ancient hieroglyphs hereto mark her passage into the next world.
She stretched out her body givinginto the pole of her sod and clothing
and lay her cheek against the stones.
A small ray of light molten goldpeaked around the edge of the eastern
cliff and fell on her face as warmand gentle as a mother's touch.
(07:40):
Olympe smiled and heaved a restful sigh.
The numbness was a blessingholding off the pain of waiting.
She would see them all again soon.
The woman wasn't moving.
This was not how Michaelwanted to begin his day.
Flotsam washed up from wrecks.
He could understand, or goods thesmugglers had jettisoned before the
(08:01):
excise officer sees them, but not people.
Perhaps she'd fallen.
Michael scrambled on the slopeswhere the spokes of green, late
summer grass made a more navigablesurface in the sharp cliffs where
the woman lay face down on the rocks.
Baird more adept on four feet thanMichael was on two, picked his way
across the uneven stones and pushed hissnout against the woman's pale cheek.
(08:23):
Was he imagining things or did she stir?
Michael caught himself as his walkingstick slid on the flat sided fossil.
He landed on his feet on thebeach with a jarring thud, then
briskly made his way to the woman.
She lay in a pile of lavenderpetticoats and a blue embroidered
jacket, her hair a dark wet clump.
Her face was disguised under the tongue ofhis dog, who gave her a determined lick.
(08:48):
She raised a small, palehand and pushed the dog away.
Baird, encouraged by the signof life, licked her hand.
Her eyes fluttered open.
Michael didn't quite understand whatshe muttered, but if it was French,
it sounded like hounds of hell.
He crouched by her side, ignoringthe shriek of pain in his bum leg.
The thing was one constantroar of pain these days.
(09:09):
Damp or dry, warm, or cold.
The ache was a companion as faithfulas his hound, though less welcome.
He reached for his rusty French.
"You're not in hell, madam. Can you rise?"
She muttered something in anotherlanguage that was not German or Dutch.
He guessed a questionconcerning her whereabouts.
(09:29):
"You are in England," he informed her.
She rolled to her side with a groanand cast a look of despair at the
ragged carved cliffs, rising like acurtain wall of an ancient castle.
"Angleterre," She muttered and theword was imbued with more derision
than which she had uttered hell.
"But still earth. Are you hurt?"
(09:49):
She squinted her eyes at him.
The path of her gaze followed hisoutline, his plain wool coat, the leather
breaches, cocked hat, and the sturdyboots he wore for his daily tramps.
He looked a common laborer, nota gentleman of some distinction.
"Are you an angel?" She askedsounding rather more alarmed
than impressed at the notion.
Her French held an accent
(10:10):
he couldn't identify, somedialect grown far from Paris.
How a French woman washed up on aDorset beach, he dearly wanted to know.
Michael snorted andleaned back on his heels.
His thigh screamed.
"Far from an angel."
"You're glowing," she saiddreamily, and he wondered if she
might be touched in the head.
(10:31):
Then she reached out her hand fingers,wrinkled from the water and touched
his knee, testing his solidity.
All of a sudden, hisleg didn't hurt anymore.
"The sun is behind me," he said, gruffly.
The swish of water along thepebbled shore reminded him.
"And the tide is coming in. We'd best moveyou." He stood first, bones creaking, and
(10:52):
held out his arm, leaning on his cane,where 10 years ago he'd have lifted her
in his arms and carried her up the slope,
perhaps to the public house forshelter or to his own house.
Though it lay half a mile away, theexertion would've meant nothing to him.
But that was 10 years ago.
"Nothing broken. That's a relief."She pushed up into a sitting
(11:13):
position, and he saw her more clearly.
A linen cloth unraveled from aroundher neck, barely clinging to the deep
bodice, framing a lovely set of breasts.
Her fitted jacket tucked intoa trim waist and flared over
the pleats of her petticoat.
If she'd had an apron, it had washed away.
Along with her cap, she was dressed like acommoner and displayed none of the mincing
(11:34):
ways of a well-bred English gentlewoman.
She took his hand in a sturdygrip and hauled herself to her
feet with an unladylike grunt.
The top of her matted darkbrown curls came to his nose.
She tipped back her head to study hisface, and Michael sucked in his breath.
She was uncommonly beautiful.
Her eyes were large and heavylidded, under high arched brows.
(11:56):
Her nose was a straight slope withjust a hint of perfectness at the tip.
Her chin might be dainty,but her mouth was not.
It was a wide slash with fullpink lips and her smile showed
all her teeth were yet in place.
One front tooth slightly overlapping.
The other... "the angelGabriel," she said.
He stared into her eyes feelingstrangely as if the water had suddenly
(12:18):
swirled around them, pulling out hisbalance, tugging him off his feet.
She was on the young side of womanhood,her skin clear, a skimmed cream, and
the cool warning wind teased the pinkbloom of sea thrift into her cheeks.
The earth and stones of thebeach washed out beneath him,
leaving him suddenly at sea.
(12:38):
"Michael," he said, his voice rough.
"My name is Michael." "Chief ofthe archangels," she murmured.
A bark from Bayer, drewher attention with a dog.
He hauled in a breath, freed for themoment from the potent spell of her eyes.
"And you fell off a passing boat,"
he guessed, "or took an evening swimin your own land and were washed across
(13:00):
the channel by the tides. Or are youa silkie and you forgot to don your
seal coat before you swam out to sea?"
She stepped forward and gaspedsharply clutching at his arms.
He slid his hands to herwaist and caught her.
The fabric was cold and damp beneathhis palms, but the slender body
beneath was firm and would be warm.
An outrageous urge seized him to tuckher close, fit her hips against his, wrap
(13:25):
his arms around her narrow shoulders,and press her breasts against his chest.
It had been quite some time since thenearness of a woman struck him with such
craving, sparking a fire deep in his gut.
Why this one?
Carefully, he studied her,keeping a respectful distance.
Pretend Netta was watching, he toldhimself, pretend his mother was here.
(13:45):
"Are you hurt?" He asked again.
She winced, one side of her lovelymouth drawing into a pucker.
"The rocks, they're sharp. I've lost myslippers." They both stared at her feet.
Her stockings, wool, not daintysilk, were torn beyond repair.
Her toes peeked through therips, nails like tiny seashells.
His gut and tightenedat the sight of her skin
(14:06):
beared to the world.
"I can try to carry you." He shiftedon his feet, bracing himself, holding
out his arm, but he favored hisright leg and that betrayed him.
She regarded his walking stick than him.
There was no scorn in hergaze, no disappointment.
No sudden decision that hislimp made him less than a man.
Yet.
(14:27):
"May I have your arm?" "Of course."She pitched toward him again as a rock
turned beneath her soul, and he caughther easily, lightly, as if they'd
rehearsed the move, as if he wereprepared, had been preparing for years
for this woman to fall into his arms.
What a beautiful scene.
Thank you so much.
(14:50):
I have lots of questions foryou, but first we're gonna take
a quick break for our sponsors.
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Well, I am back with MistyUrban who just read us a sample
from miss Gregoire's beginning.
A beautiful sample.
(15:34):
You mentioned as you were settingit up that you had this character,
Olympe Gregoire in your work already,and you'd kind of been wondering.
What's her deal?
And so I'm curious, 'cause thisscene is so vivid and so beautiful
as almost literally a death and arebirth scene to begin her life again.
(15:57):
How much of her story did you alreadyhave in you, and did you already know
that this was where the story started?
Oh, this is a fun question.
So I knew these things going in.
Her name was not Gregoire.
She'll acquire that.
This is why it's her beginning andshe has jewels sewn into her skirts.
(16:17):
That's why they're especially heavy.
There are hints throughout that,you know, she's really attached
to this lavender petticoat.
She won't let it out of her sight.
She has stolen the family jewels.
And that was all I knew and thatshe would start this school.
And she'd become a mentor.
I hope to lots of young women, so.
When I began with the romance, I thought,okay, so who is the match for this woman?
(16:40):
And because we're talking aboutsuffragettes and because she's
always been Miss Gregoire, I knew,spoiler alert, this isn't going
to end in a conventional marriage.
At least not where she takes hisname and she lives with him because
she has this really important job.
So I started with knowing shewas on the run from something.
And I knew I had to end withher starting the school.
(17:04):
That was what I wanted.
But where he fit in, I had no idea.
So I thought, well, what's a good romanticmeet cute for somebody who, you know,
has just I have this fascination withthe lady of the lake, with water women.
Mm-hmm.
Just.
It, I seem to work thismotif into my stories a lot.
So for some reason when I thought abouthow she made it to England, it was
(17:26):
not just casually sailing on a ship.
I wanted her to be this, almostlike you said, a complete rebirth.
She's lost everything exceptwhat she's wearing, and she comes
out of the water and she has tostart brand new and there he is.
And I had a little bit of fun withthat image that she thinks, oh, you
look exactly like an angel, eventhough you know he's far from it.
(17:48):
Yeah, no, I love it.
And for me, a nineties Disneykid, it's imprinted Little Mermaid
for me, so a very epic meet cute.
That's probably deeply behind myinspiration, and also I get to say
this in the author's note, she'swashed up in Lyme Regis, which in
a few years will be the site whereMary Anning is finding her fossils.
(18:11):
She's washed up on what is now theJurassic Beach with these amazing
little fossils all over the RockyBeach, all over these cliffs.
It's an extremely dramatic scenery,and I just threw it right in there.
So that was really fun too, to work in.
I love that history, even thoughI couldn't say anything about Mary
(18:31):
Anning because she's not even born yet.
At what point did you discover thathistorical tidbit to work it in?
Did you know that before youstarted writing the scene?
Mary Anning came up in my research forthe very first historical romance I wrote.
And it's not published yet.
This is about a mathematician, soI was researching scientific women
of the early 19th century, andso of course Mary Anning came up.
(18:54):
Mother of geology, she'sfinding all these fossils.
And what fascinates me is thatthis is a time where it's still
accepted that there was a flood.
That the earth is 6,000 yearsold, like this is still common
in scientific community.
And Mary is saying, but look, there'sall these interesting little creatures.
What if there's some other explanation?
And it takes Darwin and ittakes this fellows and it takes
(19:14):
evolution to find a place for them.
But initially she is sort of
scoffed at.
They're like, oh, that cute littleMary Anning playing with her stones.
And she's found something profound.
She's invented a whole discipline.
She's rearranging thehistory of the known world.
So that it added so much contextand interest to my story.
I wanted her to wash up on a beach.
(19:35):
Plymouth was a very activeport during this time.
Then that whole dramatic sweep aroundLyme Regis around the island of Portland,
which will come up later, is just reallyinteresting too, with myths of mermaids.
So that fit right in.
Yeah, it's lovely.
It's lovely.
I, this is kind of a big question,but I think you can handle it.
(19:58):
Hope So.
A critique that is often lobbiedagainst romance novels in general is
that they can't be feminist becausethey are centering the woman's story
on she has to find happiness in thecontext of love, often with a man,
but just in general, like, oh, shehas to fall in love to be happy.
And I've thought about this a lot inparticular with the suffragette uprising
(20:21):
because this series is very explicitly,let's talk about women who are fighting
for rights, fighting the status quo.
Mm-hmm.
What are your thoughts onthat critique and how do you
approach it in your fiction?
Always with one eye towards (20:37):
Yes, I am rewriting the heteronormative script.
Yes, it's a, it's aquestion I ask myself too.
Why am I drawn to this genre thatis in part so deeply heteronormative
and why do I keep writing that?
And it's because the romantic inme wants the happy ever after.
(20:59):
The romantic in me wants them tofind a love story that is nurturing
and fulfilling on their own terms.
A long time ago, the, I'm gonna tryto recall her name to mind and I
know she's on the shelf behind me.
Pamela, her name will come to me,
did deep dive into theromance and why women love it.
(21:21):
And her conclusion was that it's becauseit enacts the fantasy of the nurturing
partner who is the equal, who supportsthe woman in becoming her best self.
It's a meeting of minds.
He supports her ambition and the bestones, you know, he doesn't ever break her.
There's might be a lot ofconflict, but always in the end
(21:44):
she emerges into this new self.
She finds new parts of herself in love.
In my romances, i've always felt becauseI'm deeply feminist and because I am a
scholar and because I have always beeninterested in women who want more than
just love, they also want a career.
(22:05):
I've also always been drawn to writingthese historicals with women who
are in just single-minded pursuitof that ambition, and then the man
comes along and gets in the way.
So it ends up that they get theirhappy ending and their career.
Do they have it all?
I don't know.
I've scripted them intotimes that are historically
limiting towards women as well.
How do you work a feminist narrative intoa world where women can't own property,
(22:29):
can't vote, can't have any custody oftheir own children if something happens?
You know, those are questions.
I think it's worth exploring.
And there have always beenindependent women, feminist women,
protofeminist women there too.
So I think the way I justify it tomyself, the reading and writing of
romance, is that this is about awoman discovering herself and finding
(22:54):
fulfillment, and I'm all for that.
And it so happens that she's findingfulfillment in realizing her dreams
and finding love, and why nottry to have both of those things?
So much of the world is tryingto tell us, you have to make,
you know, and in practical terms,there's only 24 hours of a day.
I completely understand.
There are compromises.
(23:15):
There are sacrifices, but to findfulfillment in a broad number of
things, I think women deserve that,and that's what I wanna see happening
in the books that I read and write.
I love that.
I think the idea that we can integrateit so that we can be happy in multiple
spheres and find success in multiplespheres, and also that success
(23:38):
in a relationship is worth it inaddition to success in other spheres.
For me, a nice thing to think about.
I think the idea that you have tosacrifice something is very modern,
because if you look at the Superwomenof 19th century England and 18th
Century England and early England,they almost always have families.
(24:04):
They almost always have, you know, likeall of these little kids behind them.
Of course, they probably havedomestic help, but they can
be doing something else too.
They're managing the householdaccounts, they're running an
estate, they're inventing something,they're writing at the same time.
It doesn't seem to be... I supposethat's the origin of the, of the
(24:29):
debates and the anxiety about it, right?
When women start edging intowhat are considered male realms,
and then there has to be some.
Mm-hmm.
Sort of line drawing, but no, youhave to be the domestic angel.
You have to be the angel in the house.
This is the woman's sphere, you know,that becomes so sharply demarked
in the 19th century and it's stillunder discussion in the 18th.
(24:50):
And I think that's one reason thata lot of my work so far set there.
It's far less decorous.
Yeah.
And I think another thing that you kindof tease in this novella is different
cultural conceptions of femininity.
Like Olympe has different rules thatshe was raised to follow than the
English women that she encounters.
(25:12):
Is there anything about thatto share with the listeners?
Just that it was really funto research and think about.
So Olympe has gone togirl schools in Paris.
That's where her kindof finishing school was.
And there's this perception and at leastamong 18th century English that, you know,
the French, they're so sophisticated.
(25:32):
I think there's still someelement of that going around.
They're just a little bit fast, thoseFrench girls, and there's an element of
independence that she doesn't question.
Why wouldn't I think for myself,why wouldn't I make decisions?
She doesn't feel crippling guiltover rebelling against what her
mother wants for her, which isconventional marriage to a man who's
got a title and will help elevatethe family, and she says no and she
(25:55):
takes off, or she has good reasons.
I like to think she has good reasons.
But yeah, I think that independence ofmind is something that's really unique
to the 18th century as well, which isfunny because it's the most outrageous
fashions, you know, like when you thinkof how much they're carrying around
in those enormous skirts and the wigsand the rest of it, you know, you have
(26:18):
those tight bodices and the rest, the,the fashions are just over the top, but
the thinking around women's roles isstill being played out, which I find
right, because it was theera of enlightenment without
any of the revolution.
So people weren't threatened by theseradical ideas that could upend status quo.
(26:42):
Yeah.
Yes, exactly.
That's, I think that's partof the fun of the period.
There's just so much changing andeverything sort of feels culturally, like
the ground is shifting under their feet.
Mm-hmm.
Everyone's trying to negotiate their way.
Yeah.
And then, you know, Europe is full ofwars at the same time too, so you have
to think about the consequences of that.
And I think that too has lent to herOlympe's independence because her
(27:07):
father you know, died in prison andher stepfather's on the other side now.
So their castle is being contested.
Her sister's at the center of it.
That's kind of her driving conflict.
And so she is the oneleft to do something.
Her brother's dead.
Her brother got killed in battle.
The heir is gone.
It's her now and her sister.
So what do you do when you're left?
What do you do when war leads youwith, you know, that wreckage?
(27:30):
How do you rebuild?
How do you fix it?
Yeah.
You get a great story out of it that I
hope so.
I
really like that.
I really had fun writing her.
All right, well in your previous episodewith me, you did play Love It or Leave It.
So instead for thisepisode, we're gonna play.
(27:50):
Would you rather?
Yay.
Okay.
Would you rather a Cinderella storyrags to riches or a fall from Fortune?
To read or to write?
Mm hmm.
Give me both.
Okay.
To read a Cinderella story, such a sucker.
(28:13):
Such a sucker for the Cinderella story.
But to write, you want thatmaximum conflict, right?
You want a real problem that she hasto solve that has to force her to grow.
So I love writing these women who'vejust kind of started with nothing or have
nothing or have had something significanttaken away, but then they rebuild.
So it's kind of the fall fromFortune and then the climb back up.
(28:36):
Can I have that?
Yes.
Yes you can.
I'm gonna break the rules.
I just do it.
Would you rather secret baby or amnesia?
Amnesia.
Because I do not like the secret baby.
I do not like that.
Oh, we have to be forced into parenthoodnow because there's this surprise baby.
(28:57):
And the secret baby.
I'm like, that's just rude.
Don't hide a baby.
Like, yeah, don't hide the baby.
I, I, I walk away.
I know there's a lot of interest in that,but that's not for me, the secret baby.
I'm like, I want babies to bewelcomed and a point of joy.
Yeah.
Okay.
Would you rather a rake who needsreform or a hero who needs to
(29:20):
learn to stand up for himself?
Oh, the alpha and the cinnamon roll.
I'm gonna pick thecinnamon roll every time.
I'm gonna pick the beta every time.
I think that's because of whatI'm attracted to in real life.
Like very, you know.
Aggressive men.
I'm like, no, thank you.
We don't have a lot to talk about.
My husband is the biggestsquishy cinnamon roll he is.
(29:41):
Got such a good heart.
The reformed rake, that's interesting.
I liked that trope when I was younger.
I was really attracted to theidea that, oh, he's just so
naughty and love will reform him.
But as I become more cynical, I'mlike, people don't change that much
and giving that much power to passion.
(30:01):
And the woman, like she'sin charge of reforming him.
No, he needs to grow up.
He needs to grow up and beinga man who is fit for her.
And so that's why I like the man whohas to learn to stand up for himself.
Yeah.
I feel like the reformed rake comes witha lot of emotional labor and I think
that's why I am never, never into them.
Mm-hmm.
Which the funniest part was I've committedto writing a rake story for an anthology
(30:25):
that's coming out later this year.
So here we go.
I have to try to makethis convincing though.
I have to try to like this guy.
I have faith in you.
You can do it.
I hope.
All right.
Would you rather (30:39):
first person present or any type of narration
but it's told through alternatingflashbacks with the present?
Hmm.
It would be first person present.
Okay.
I find it really interesting thatso much romantic is doing that now.
(30:59):
Historical women's fiction.
I think of Philippa Gregory, she.
She was doing that when alot of other people weren't.
And now it's become kind of a style.
Flashbacks I find really trickyand I very easily get lost, so.
Mm-hmm.
Let's just try to be aschronological as possible.
Although that said, I do love reallyclever plotter who can break apart
(31:21):
her story, and then by the end of ityou see exactly what the narrative
was, but it's told in pieces.
Yeah.
Someday.
Someday I'll be that clever.
It's a goal.
My question is always how much did theyknow when they first started writing it,
and how much of that is done in revision?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
(31:41):
With this story, I had to go back andplant because halfway through I forgot
that she had the jewels in her skirts,and I'm like, oh, I have to mention that.
Like, you know, she can't just be likethrowing it away or leaving it somewhere.
She wouldn't do that.
That was one thing where like,yeah, I had to go rework that.
Yeah.
(32:01):
Okay.
And the last one, would you rather angstythird act breakup, or bonus epilogue?
The angsty third act breakup.
And I know, I know, I know.
I get all the reasons why peoplehate it, especially if it's forced,
especially if it's like some ridiculouscommunication or heated something
(32:23):
bad back in the end of act two, andnow it's coming back to bite them.
But I am a fan of that narrativearc where it looks like
everything's broken.
And then how do you come back from that?
You have to really evaluate whatyou want and if this is good enough.
And so to me, that angsty thirdact breakup, whether it's truly a
(32:48):
real parting, you know, we can'tever be together or it's something
else that comes between them.
I love the dramatic punch of that.
Like you really have to figureout, you really have to want this.
You know, you're not forcedtogether by a secret baby.
You're not forced togetherby the arranged marriage.
You are choosing each otherand you're gonna overcome those
(33:10):
obstacles so you can be together.
And
I love that
it drives such a great catharsis.
Yes, yes.
If I'm crying and laughingtogether, that book is the keeper.
Well, Misty, thank you so muchfor playing with you rather.
(33:31):
Thank you.
Miss Gregoire's Beginning is partof the Suffragette Uprising series
on Kindle Unlimited, and it is outthis week when this podcast airs.
So where can listeners findyou and your other books?
So the first place I would sendthem is my website, misty urban.com.
(33:51):
I am on Facebook as authorMisty Urban, and I'm also a
member of the Wanton WallflowersHistorical Romance Readers Group.
As are you.
Yes, and I would invite readersto come find both of us there
because we have a marvelous time.
I'm on Instagram as author Misty Urban.
And I am also on BookBub as MistyUrban writes, so you can pop over
(34:15):
there and see when I'm reading.
Awesome.
Well thank you so much.
I am so excited to have thisseries with you and I'm so glad
you came back on the podcast.
Thanks so much for having me.
It's been.
That's it for this week!
Don't forget to subscribe to theHistorical Romance Sampler wherever
(34:37):
you listen, and follow us onInstagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Until next week, happy reading!
Welcome to the historicalromance sampler podcast.
I'm your host, Katherine Grant, andeach week I introduce you to another
amazing historical romance author.
My guest reads a little sampleof their work, and then we move
into a free ranging interview.
If you like these episodes, don'tforget to subscribe to the historical
(00:24):
romance sampler, wherever youlisten to podcasts and follow us
on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Now let's get into this week's episode.
I am super excited to be joinedtoday for another in my special
series of authors reading from theSuffragette Uprising series today.
It's Misty urban, and Misty, if youhaven't listened to our other episode,
(00:50):
which you should do., Misty fell in lovewith stories at an early age and has
spent her life among books as a teacher,scholar, editor, writer, and bookseller.
Her favorite stories take you new places,teach you new things, and end with a win.
She especially likes romances aboutunconventional heroines who defy the odds
(01:11):
and the unexpected heroes who woo them.
So that's mostly what she writeswhen she puts down the book.
She likes to take long walks, dragher family to new places, or hang out
around water, dreaming up new stories.
Misty, thanks so much for coming on again.
Thanks for having me.
This is such a pleasure.
Yeah, so year book three in theSuffragette Uprising series.
(01:34):
I'm the lucky Third.
Yes.
And so just in case listeners are hoppingon for the first time, I'm doing an
interview with every author in the series,beginning with Andrea Janelle, whose
book Spine of Steel came out in April.
Then she interviewed me for my book, whichcame out in May in the Wide open light.
And now we have you forMiss Gregoire's beginning.
(01:56):
Yes.
I'm so delighted to bepart of this series.
I'm such a fan of suffragettes ingeneral, strong-minded, independent women.
Yeah, I, I'm, I'm a fan of the series too.
I'm excited to be a part of it.
I'm so grateful to Andreafor putting it together.
What can, what would you like listenersto know about Miss Gregoire's Beginning?
(02:18):
So in the spirit of the suffragetteuprising, Miss Gregoire has a mission.
She is coming to a new land with a cause.
She wants to see justicedone for her family.
And of course, because this is ahistorical romance novella series,
there's also a lover that she encounters.
(02:39):
And at First she thinks he's goingto be an obstacle, then he becomes an
ally, and then of course he becomeseventually the love of her life.
He supports her cause.
He leads her to achieve and fulfillher dreams, and he becomes part
of her future in really unexpectedways that she didn't imagine.
For readers of my other historicalromances in the Ladies least Likely
(03:03):
series, there has been in the backgroundof several books, this Mysterious Miss
Gregoire's School, or Miss Gregoire'sAcademy for Genteel Young Ladies,
and it's been established in Bath.
And what people don't know isthat this is a breeding ground
for radical ambitious women.
Miss Gregoire is the kind of instructorwho teaches her girls whatever they want.
(03:24):
She allows them to exerciseindependent thought.
She encourages their ambitions, andshe's always been in my mind as this
background figure who is you know,quietly rearing these subversive women
who then go on to be the heroines of myladies, least likely in a lot of cases.
And so when this opportunity arose towrite about a woman, I thought, well,
(03:46):
I'm gonna take this chance to exploreher beginning, because I always knew
she had a shady past and this wasmy chance to find out more about it.
I love it and I got a chance to readan early draft and I love the story.
I love Olympe and I love Michael.
So is there anything we need to know aboutthe scene before you start reading it?
(04:07):
Olympe is from Alsace, whichis a contested part of Europe
between Germany and France.
It's been in the 18th century,switched back and forth several times.
It's predominantly German in character.
It has its own language, it has its ownvery unique customs and culture, but it
is currently ruled in the time of thestory by the French, so they end up,
(04:29):
please imagine, as I'm reading, thattheir common language is in fact French.
Olympe's
English is not very good atthis time, and Michael doesn't
know much about Alsace at all.
Certainly does not speak Alsation.
So perhaps that's the only setup.
She's coming from very far away.
I'll start with the verybeginning, chapter one.
(04:51):
Her arms were stiff wooden paddles.
Her feet tree stumps.
If rocks hidden beneath the gray bluewaves cut at her feet, she didn't notice.
Her body was numb and had been sinceshe'd left from the rowboat and
the man who'd meant to kill her.
Of course, he didn't say in somany words he meant to kill her.
He'd whispered of something else,something he meant to do with
(05:11):
her once they touched shore.
Something he said would ensure hersafe passage through Plymouth and not
a glance from the customs officer orthe port officials, something that
would make all this worth, his while,troublesome female that she was.
What he offered was the opposite of safe.
She'd taken her chances on the sea.
Of course now, she was going todie on this beach if her heavy
(05:32):
skirts allowed her to reach shore.
She moved her limbs forward through willalone, dragging her legs through the
water, scooping it away with her palms.
The beach floated ever out of reach, asilvery crescent glowing with early dawn.
Her body was numb, but her hearthad been numb for far longer.
At least she had chosen her deathlike Gregor and Matis had, putting
(05:53):
themselves in the way of Prussian shellfor the cause of France and glory.
She had not been tortured and snuffedout in a prison cell like her father,
nor pushed to starvation like othersof her homeland, than felled by
plague like wheat in the field.
There was something almost noble aboutit, dying alone on a foreign shore.
She'd failed in her quest, but no matter.
(06:15):
So many thousands had failed alreadyand would fail again trying to protect
their homes from the ravening maw of war.
Of course, she had chosen to wade ashorewhere there was barely a shore at all.
Just stark gray cliffs risingstraight from the sea and a
hammered silver sky beyond.
She laughed at herself, then spitout the salt water that leapt
into her mouth from the spray.
(06:35):
Her family would say this wastypical Olympe to choose the
harder way when there was a softer.
Overburdening her basket atmarket rather than selecting no
more than what she could carry.
Walking to the next mountain topvillage, rather than taking a cart.
Swimming la marche, instead of takingthe smuggler ship to shore and paying
his unscrupulous fee all at once.
(06:56):
The tide gave way as if theearth had tilted, and she
slogged onto a pebbled shore.
The tiny rocks were rough and coolas she fell to her hands and knees.
She rubbed one between her fingers,surprised at the texture tracing the
tiny prints embedded in the hard surface.
One design was an arch withflares, depending from the spine.
(07:16):
Another sunburst curling inon itself like a pill bug.
Secret symbols or ancient hieroglyphs hereto mark her passage into the next world.
She stretched out her body givinginto the pole of her sod and clothing
and lay her cheek against the stones.
A small ray of light molten goldpeaked around the edge of the eastern
cliff and fell on her face as warmand gentle as a mother's touch.
(07:40):
Olympe smiled and heaved a restful sigh.
The numbness was a blessingholding off the pain of waiting.
She would see them all again soon.
The woman wasn't moving.
This was not how Michaelwanted to begin his day.
Flotsam washed up from wrecks.
He could understand, or goods thesmugglers had jettisoned before the
(08:01):
excise officer sees them, but not people.
Perhaps she'd fallen.
Michael scrambled on the slopeswhere the spokes of green, late
summer grass made a more navigablesurface in the sharp cliffs where
the woman lay face down on the rocks.
Baird more adept on four feet thanMichael was on two, picked his way
across the uneven stones and pushed hissnout against the woman's pale cheek.
(08:23):
Was he imagining things or did she stir?
Michael caught himself as his walkingstick slid on the flat sided fossil.
He landed on his feet on thebeach with a jarring thud, then
briskly made his way to the woman.
She lay in a pile of lavenderpetticoats and a blue embroidered
jacket, her hair a dark wet clump.
Her face was disguised under the tongue ofhis dog, who gave her a determined lick.
(08:48):
She raised a small, palehand and pushed the dog away.
Baird, encouraged by the signof life, licked her hand.
Her eyes fluttered open.
Michael didn't quite understand whatshe muttered, but if it was French,
it sounded like hounds of hell.
He crouched by her side, ignoringthe shriek of pain in his bum leg.
The thing was one constantroar of pain these days.
(09:09):
Damp or dry, warm, or cold.
The ache was a companion as faithfulas his hound, though less welcome.
He reached for his rusty French.
"You're not in hell, madam. Can you rise?"
She muttered something in anotherlanguage that was not German or Dutch.
He guessed a questionconcerning her whereabouts.
(09:29):
"You are in England," he informed her.
She rolled to her side with a groanand cast a look of despair at the
ragged carved cliffs, rising like acurtain wall of an ancient castle.
"Angleterre," She muttered and theword was imbued with more derision
than which she had uttered hell.
"But still earth. Are you hurt?"
(09:49):
She squinted her eyes at him.
The path of her gaze followed hisoutline, his plain wool coat, the leather
breaches, cocked hat, and the sturdyboots he wore for his daily tramps.
He looked a common laborer, nota gentleman of some distinction.
"Are you an angel?" She askedsounding rather more alarmed
than impressed at the notion.
Her French held an accent
(10:10):
he couldn't identify, somedialect grown far from Paris.
How a French woman washed up on aDorset beach, he dearly wanted to know.
Michael snorted andleaned back on his heels.
His thigh screamed.
"Far from an angel."
"You're glowing," she saiddreamily, and he wondered if she
might be touched in the head.
(10:31):
Then she reached out her hand fingers,wrinkled from the water and touched
his knee, testing his solidity.
All of a sudden, hisleg didn't hurt anymore.
"The sun is behind me," he said, gruffly.
The swish of water along thepebbled shore reminded him.
"And the tide is coming in. We'd best moveyou." He stood first, bones creaking, and
(10:52):
held out his arm, leaning on his cane,where 10 years ago he'd have lifted her
in his arms and carried her up the slope,
perhaps to the public house forshelter or to his own house.
Though it lay half a mile away, theexertion would've meant nothing to him.
But that was 10 years ago.
"Nothing broken. That's a relief."She pushed up into a sitting
(11:13):
position, and he saw her more clearly.
A linen cloth unraveled from aroundher neck, barely clinging to the deep
bodice, framing a lovely set of breasts.
Her fitted jacket tucked intoa trim waist and flared over
the pleats of her petticoat.
If she'd had an apron, it had washed away.
Along with her cap, she was dressed like acommoner and displayed none of the mincing
(11:34):
ways of a well-bred English gentlewoman.
She took his hand in a sturdygrip and hauled herself to her
feet with an unladylike grunt.
The top of her matted darkbrown curls came to his nose.
She tipped back her head to study hisface, and Michael sucked in his breath.
She was uncommonly beautiful.
Her eyes were large and heavylidded, under high arched brows.
(11:56):
Her nose was a straight slope withjust a hint of perfectness at the tip.
Her chin might be dainty,but her mouth was not.
It was a wide slash with fullpink lips and her smile showed
all her teeth were yet in place.
One front tooth slightly overlapping.
The other... "the angelGabriel," she said.
He stared into her eyes feelingstrangely as if the water had suddenly
(12:18):
swirled around them, pulling out hisbalance, tugging him off his feet.
She was on the young side of womanhood,her skin clear, a skimmed cream, and
the cool warning wind teased the pinkbloom of sea thrift into her cheeks.
The earth and stones of thebeach washed out beneath him,
leaving him suddenly at sea.
(12:38):
"Michael," he said, his voice rough.
"My name is Michael." "Chief ofthe archangels," she murmured.
A bark from Bayer, drewher attention with a dog.
He hauled in a breath, freed for themoment from the potent spell of her eyes.
"And you fell off a passing boat,"
he guessed, "or took an evening swimin your own land and were washed across
(13:00):
the channel by the tides. Or are youa silkie and you forgot to don your
seal coat before you swam out to sea?"
She stepped forward and gaspedsharply clutching at his arms.
He slid his hands to herwaist and caught her.
The fabric was cold and damp beneathhis palms, but the slender body
beneath was firm and would be warm.
An outrageous urge seized him to tuckher close, fit her hips against his, wrap
(13:25):
his arms around her narrow shoulders,and press her breasts against his chest.
It had been quite some time since thenearness of a woman struck him with such
craving, sparking a fire deep in his gut.
Why this one?
Carefully, he studied her,keeping a respectful distance.
Pretend Netta was watching, he toldhimself, pretend his mother was here.
(13:45):
"Are you hurt?" He asked again.
She winced, one side of her lovelymouth drawing into a pucker.
"The rocks, they're sharp. I've lost myslippers." They both stared at her feet.
Her stockings, wool, not daintysilk, were torn beyond repair.
Her toes peeked through therips, nails like tiny seashells.
His gut and tightenedat the sight of her skin
(14:06):
beared to the world.
"I can try to carry you." He shiftedon his feet, bracing himself, holding
out his arm, but he favored hisright leg and that betrayed him.
She regarded his walking stick than him.
There was no scorn in hergaze, no disappointment.
No sudden decision that hislimp made him less than a man.
Yet.
(14:27):
"May I have your arm?" "Of course."She pitched toward him again as a rock
turned beneath her soul, and he caughther easily, lightly, as if they'd
rehearsed the move, as if he wereprepared, had been preparing for years
for this woman to fall into his arms.
What a beautiful scene.
Thank you so much.
(14:50):
I have lots of questions foryou, but first we're gonna take
a quick break for our sponsors.
Hey, audiobook listeners!
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Season 1 playlist on Libro.
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(15:13):
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Head on over to the Historical RomanceSampler link tree to learn more.
Well, I am back with MistyUrban who just read us a sample
from miss Gregoire's beginning.
A beautiful sample.
(15:34):
You mentioned as you were settingit up that you had this character,
Olympe Gregoire in your work already,and you'd kind of been wondering.
What's her deal?
And so I'm curious, 'cause thisscene is so vivid and so beautiful
as almost literally a death and arebirth scene to begin her life again.
(15:57):
How much of her story did you alreadyhave in you, and did you already know
that this was where the story started?
Oh, this is a fun question.
So I knew these things going in.
Her name was not Gregoire.
She'll acquire that.
This is why it's her beginning andshe has jewels sewn into her skirts.
(16:17):
That's why they're especially heavy.
There are hints throughout that,you know, she's really attached
to this lavender petticoat.
She won't let it out of her sight.
She has stolen the family jewels.
And that was all I knew and thatshe would start this school.
And she'd become a mentor.
I hope to lots of young women, so.
When I began with the romance, I thought,okay, so who is the match for this woman?
(16:40):
And because we're talking aboutsuffragettes and because she's
always been Miss Gregoire, I knew,spoiler alert, this isn't going
to end in a conventional marriage.
At least not where she takes hisname and she lives with him because
she has this really important job.
So I started with knowing shewas on the run from something.
And I knew I had to end withher starting the school.
(17:04):
That was what I wanted.
But where he fit in, I had no idea.
So I thought, well, what's a good romanticmeet cute for somebody who, you know,
has just I have this fascination withthe lady of the lake, with water women.
Mm-hmm.
Just.
It, I seem to work thismotif into my stories a lot.
So for some reason when I thought abouthow she made it to England, it was
(17:26):
not just casually sailing on a ship.
I wanted her to be this, almostlike you said, a complete rebirth.
She's lost everything exceptwhat she's wearing, and she comes
out of the water and she has tostart brand new and there he is.
And I had a little bit of fun withthat image that she thinks, oh, you
look exactly like an angel, eventhough you know he's far from it.
(17:48):
Yeah, no, I love it.
And for me, a nineties Disneykid, it's imprinted Little Mermaid
for me, so a very epic meet cute.
That's probably deeply behind myinspiration, and also I get to say
this in the author's note, she'swashed up in Lyme Regis, which in
a few years will be the site whereMary Anning is finding her fossils.
(18:11):
She's washed up on what is now theJurassic Beach with these amazing
little fossils all over the RockyBeach, all over these cliffs.
It's an extremely dramatic scenery,and I just threw it right in there.
So that was really fun too, to work in.
I love that history, even thoughI couldn't say anything about Mary
(18:31):
Anning because she's not even born yet.
At what point did you discover thathistorical tidbit to work it in?
Did you know that before youstarted writing the scene?
Mary Anning came up in my research forthe very first historical romance I wrote.
And it's not published yet.
This is about a mathematician, soI was researching scientific women
of the early 19th century, andso of course Mary Anning came up.
(18:54):
Mother of geology, she'sfinding all these fossils.
And what fascinates me is thatthis is a time where it's still
accepted that there was a flood.
That the earth is 6,000 yearsold, like this is still common
in scientific community.
And Mary is saying, but look, there'sall these interesting little creatures.
What if there's some other explanation?
And it takes Darwin and ittakes this fellows and it takes
(19:14):
evolution to find a place for them.
But initially she is sort of
scoffed at.
They're like, oh, that cute littleMary Anning playing with her stones.
And she's found something profound.
She's invented a whole discipline.
She's rearranging thehistory of the known world.
So that it added so much contextand interest to my story.
I wanted her to wash up on a beach.
(19:35):
Plymouth was a very activeport during this time.
Then that whole dramatic sweep aroundLyme Regis around the island of Portland,
which will come up later, is just reallyinteresting too, with myths of mermaids.
So that fit right in.
Yeah, it's lovely.
It's lovely.
I, this is kind of a big question,but I think you can handle it.
(19:58):
Hope So.
A critique that is often lobbiedagainst romance novels in general is
that they can't be feminist becausethey are centering the woman's story
on she has to find happiness in thecontext of love, often with a man,
but just in general, like, oh, shehas to fall in love to be happy.
And I've thought about this a lot inparticular with the suffragette uprising
(20:21):
because this series is very explicitly,let's talk about women who are fighting
for rights, fighting the status quo.
Mm-hmm.
What are your thoughts onthat critique and how do you
approach it in your fiction?
Always with one eye towards (20:37):
Yes, I am rewriting the heteronormative script.
Yes, it's a, it's aquestion I ask myself too.
Why am I drawn to this genre thatis in part so deeply heteronormative
and why do I keep writing that?
And it's because the romantic inme wants the happy ever after.
(20:59):
The romantic in me wants them tofind a love story that is nurturing
and fulfilling on their own terms.
A long time ago, the, I'm gonna tryto recall her name to mind and I
know she's on the shelf behind me.
Pamela, her name will come to me,
did deep dive into theromance and why women love it.
(21:21):
And her conclusion was that it's becauseit enacts the fantasy of the nurturing
partner who is the equal, who supportsthe woman in becoming her best self.
It's a meeting of minds.
He supports her ambition and the bestones, you know, he doesn't ever break her.
There's might be a lot ofconflict, but always in the end
(21:44):
she emerges into this new self.
She finds new parts of herself in love.
In my romances, i've always felt becauseI'm deeply feminist and because I am a
scholar and because I have always beeninterested in women who want more than
just love, they also want a career.
(22:05):
I've also always been drawn to writingthese historicals with women who
are in just single-minded pursuitof that ambition, and then the man
comes along and gets in the way.
So it ends up that they get theirhappy ending and their career.
Do they have it all?
I don't know.
I've scripted them intotimes that are historically
limiting towards women as well.
How do you work a feminist narrative intoa world where women can't own property,
(22:29):
can't vote, can't have any custody oftheir own children if something happens?
You know, those are questions.
I think it's worth exploring.
And there have always beenindependent women, feminist women,
protofeminist women there too.
So I think the way I justify it tomyself, the reading and writing of
romance, is that this is about awoman discovering herself and finding
(22:54):
fulfillment, and I'm all for that.
And it so happens that she's findingfulfillment in realizing her dreams
and finding love, and why nottry to have both of those things?
So much of the world is tryingto tell us, you have to make,
you know, and in practical terms,there's only 24 hours of a day.
I completely understand.
There are compromises.
(23:15):
There are sacrifices, but to findfulfillment in a broad number of
things, I think women deserve that,and that's what I wanna see happening
in the books that I read and write.
I love that.
I think the idea that we can integrateit so that we can be happy in multiple
spheres and find success in multiplespheres, and also that success
(23:38):
in a relationship is worth it inaddition to success in other spheres.
For me, a nice thing to think about.
I think the idea that you have tosacrifice something is very modern,
because if you look at the Superwomenof 19th century England and 18th
Century England and early England,they almost always have families.
(24:04):
They almost always have, you know, likeall of these little kids behind them.
Of course, they probably havedomestic help, but they can
be doing something else too.
They're managing the householdaccounts, they're running an
estate, they're inventing something,they're writing at the same time.
It doesn't seem to be... I supposethat's the origin of the, of the
(24:29):
debates and the anxiety about it, right?
When women start edging intowhat are considered male realms,
and then there has to be some.
Mm-hmm.
Sort of line drawing, but no, youhave to be the domestic angel.
You have to be the angel in the house.
This is the woman's sphere, you know,that becomes so sharply demarked
in the 19th century and it's stillunder discussion in the 18th.
(24:50):
And I think that's one reason thata lot of my work so far set there.
It's far less decorous.
Yeah.
And I think another thing that you kindof tease in this novella is different
cultural conceptions of femininity.
Like Olympe has different rules thatshe was raised to follow than the
English women that she encounters.
(25:12):
Is there anything about thatto share with the listeners?
Just that it was really funto research and think about.
So Olympe has gone togirl schools in Paris.
That's where her kindof finishing school was.
And there's this perception and at leastamong 18th century English that, you know,
the French, they're so sophisticated.
(25:32):
I think there's still someelement of that going around.
They're just a little bit fast, thoseFrench girls, and there's an element of
independence that she doesn't question.
Why wouldn't I think for myself,why wouldn't I make decisions?
She doesn't feel crippling guiltover rebelling against what her
mother wants for her, which isconventional marriage to a man who's
got a title and will help elevatethe family, and she says no and she
(25:55):
takes off, or she has good reasons.
I like to think she has good reasons.
But yeah, I think that independence ofmind is something that's really unique
to the 18th century as well, which isfunny because it's the most outrageous
fashions, you know, like when you thinkof how much they're carrying around
in those enormous skirts and the wigsand the rest of it, you know, you have
(26:18):
those tight bodices and the rest, the,the fashions are just over the top, but
the thinking around women's roles isstill being played out, which I find
right, because it was theera of enlightenment without
any of the revolution.
So people weren't threatened by theseradical ideas that could upend status quo.
(26:42):
Yeah.
Yes, exactly.
That's, I think that's partof the fun of the period.
There's just so much changing andeverything sort of feels culturally, like
the ground is shifting under their feet.
Mm-hmm.
Everyone's trying to negotiate their way.
Yeah.
And then, you know, Europe is full ofwars at the same time too, so you have
to think about the consequences of that.
And I think that too has lent to herOlympe's independence because her
(27:07):
father you know, died in prison andher stepfather's on the other side now.
So their castle is being contested.
Her sister's at the center of it.
That's kind of her driving conflict.
And so she is the oneleft to do something.
Her brother's dead.
Her brother got killed in battle.
The heir is gone.
It's her now and her sister.
So what do you do when you're left?
What do you do when war leads youwith, you know, that wreckage?
(27:30):
How do you rebuild?
How do you fix it?
Yeah.
You get a great story out of it that I
hope so.
I
really like that.
I really had fun writing her.
All right, well in your previous episodewith me, you did play Love It or Leave It.
So instead for thisepisode, we're gonna play.
(27:50):
Would you rather?
Yay.
Okay.
Would you rather a Cinderella storyrags to riches or a fall from Fortune?
To read or to write?
Mm hmm.
Give me both.
Okay.
To read a Cinderella story, such a sucker.
(28:13):
Such a sucker for the Cinderella story.
But to write, you want thatmaximum conflict, right?
You want a real problem that she hasto solve that has to force her to grow.
So I love writing these women who'vejust kind of started with nothing or have
nothing or have had something significanttaken away, but then they rebuild.
So it's kind of the fall fromFortune and then the climb back up.
(28:36):
Can I have that?
Yes.
Yes you can.
I'm gonna break the rules.
I just do it.
Would you rather secret baby or amnesia?
Amnesia.
Because I do not like the secret baby.
I do not like that.
Oh, we have to be forced into parenthoodnow because there's this surprise baby.
(28:57):
And the secret baby.
I'm like, that's just rude.
Don't hide a baby.
Like, yeah, don't hide the baby.
I, I, I walk away.
I know there's a lot of interest in that,but that's not for me, the secret baby.
I'm like, I want babies to bewelcomed and a point of joy.
Yeah.
Okay.
Would you rather a rake who needsreform or a hero who needs to
(29:20):
learn to stand up for himself?
Oh, the alpha and the cinnamon roll.
I'm gonna pick thecinnamon roll every time.
I'm gonna pick the beta every time.
I think that's because of whatI'm attracted to in real life.
Like very, you know.
Aggressive men.
I'm like, no, thank you.
We don't have a lot to talk about.
My husband is the biggestsquishy cinnamon roll he is.
(29:41):
Got such a good heart.
The reformed rake, that's interesting.
I liked that trope when I was younger.
I was really attracted to theidea that, oh, he's just so
naughty and love will reform him.
But as I become more cynical, I'mlike, people don't change that much
and giving that much power to passion.
(30:01):
And the woman, like she'sin charge of reforming him.
No, he needs to grow up.
He needs to grow up and beinga man who is fit for her.
And so that's why I like the man whohas to learn to stand up for himself.
Yeah.
I feel like the reformed rake comes witha lot of emotional labor and I think
that's why I am never, never into them.
Mm-hmm.
Which the funniest part was I've committedto writing a rake story for an anthology
(30:25):
that's coming out later this year.
So here we go.
I have to try to makethis convincing though.
I have to try to like this guy.
I have faith in you.
You can do it.
I hope.
All right.
Would you rather (30:39):
first person present or any type of narration
but it's told through alternatingflashbacks with the present?
Hmm.
It would be first person present.
Okay.
I find it really interesting thatso much romantic is doing that now.
(30:59):
Historical women's fiction.
I think of Philippa Gregory, she.
She was doing that when alot of other people weren't.
And now it's become kind of a style.
Flashbacks I find really trickyand I very easily get lost, so.
Mm-hmm.
Let's just try to be aschronological as possible.
Although that said, I do love reallyclever plotter who can break apart
(31:21):
her story, and then by the end of ityou see exactly what the narrative
was, but it's told in pieces.
Yeah.
Someday.
Someday I'll be that clever.
It's a goal.
My question is always how much did theyknow when they first started writing it,
and how much of that is done in revision?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
(31:41):
With this story, I had to go back andplant because halfway through I forgot
that she had the jewels in her skirts,and I'm like, oh, I have to mention that.
Like, you know, she can't just be likethrowing it away or leaving it somewhere.
She wouldn't do that.
That was one thing where like,yeah, I had to go rework that.
Yeah.
(32:01):
Okay.
And the last one, would you rather angstythird act breakup, or bonus epilogue?
The angsty third act breakup.
And I know, I know, I know.
I get all the reasons why peoplehate it, especially if it's forced,
especially if it's like some ridiculouscommunication or heated something
(32:23):
bad back in the end of act two, andnow it's coming back to bite them.
But I am a fan of that narrativearc where it looks like
everything's broken.
And then how do you come back from that?
You have to really evaluate whatyou want and if this is good enough.
And so to me, that angsty thirdact breakup, whether it's truly a
(32:48):
real parting, you know, we can'tever be together or it's something
else that comes between them.
I love the dramatic punch of that.
Like you really have to figureout, you really have to want this.
You know, you're not forcedtogether by a secret baby.
You're not forced togetherby the arranged marriage.
You are choosing each otherand you're gonna overcome those
(33:10):
obstacles so you can be together.
And
I love that
it drives such a great catharsis.
Yes, yes.
If I'm crying and laughingtogether, that book is the keeper.
Well, Misty, thank you so muchfor playing with you rather.
(33:31):
Thank you.
Miss Gregoire's Beginning is partof the Suffragette Uprising series
on Kindle Unlimited, and it is outthis week when this podcast airs.
So where can listeners findyou and your other books?
So the first place I would sendthem is my website, misty urban.com.
(33:51):
I am on Facebook as authorMisty Urban, and I'm also a
member of the Wanton WallflowersHistorical Romance Readers Group.
As are you.
Yes, and I would invite readersto come find both of us there
because we have a marvelous time.
I'm on Instagram as author Misty Urban.
And I am also on BookBub as MistyUrban writes, so you can pop over
(34:15):
there and see when I'm reading.
Awesome.
Well thank you so much.
I am so excited to have thisseries with you and I'm so glad
you came back on the podcast.
Thanks so much for having me.
It's been.
That's it for this week!
Don't forget to subscribe to theHistorical Romance Sampler wherever
(34:37):
you listen, and follow us onInstagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Until next week, happy reading!
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