April 30, 2025 • 34 mins
Sebastian Nothwell, author and co-host of the Right Here, Write Queer podcast, joins the podcast to read from MR. WARREN'S PROFESSION! Sebastian talks about the challenges of writing class difference romances, his hands-on research process, and his approach to sharing work and receiving feedback. Plus, he tells us the joys of Right Here, Write Queer podcast!
00:00 Introduction to the Historical Romance Sampler Podcast
00:33 Meet Sebastian Northwell: Queer Romance Author
01:10 Reading from 'Mr. Warren's Profession'
14:44 In-Depth Interview with Sebastian Northwell
30:30 Love It or Leave It: Romance Rules
34:36 Closing Remarks
Find out more about Sebastian Nothwell: https://sebastiannothwell.com/
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Welcome to the historicalromance sampler podcast.
I'm your host, Katherine Grant, andeach week I introduce you to another
amazing historical romance author.
My guest reads a little sampleof their work, and then we move
into a free ranging interview.
If you like these episodes, don'tforget to subscribe to the historical
(00:24):
romance sampler, wherever youlisten to podcasts and follow us
on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Now let's get into this week's episode.
I am very excited to be joinedtoday by Sebastian Northwell.
Sebastian writes queerromance when not writing.
(00:45):
He is counting down the minutes untilhe is permitted to return to writing.
He is also co-host and editor ofthe Right Here Write Queer podcast.
He is absolutely not a ghost anddefinitely did not die in 1895.
Sebastian, thank you so muchfor joining the podcast today.
(01:07):
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, I am super excited.
You write all sorts of differentromances and today you're sharing
a historical romance with us.
I am.
I am sharing Mr. Warren's profession,which is my 1890s cross class
mill owner, mill worker, romance.
Ooh.
(01:27):
Gotta love a mill owner, mill worker.
All right.
Is there anything we need to knowabout the story as you jump in?
The scene I'm jumping into
how to describe it takes placeat the mill as one might expect,
(01:47):
and our heroes are not yetan item, but they're slowly
on the path to becoming one.
Ooh, love it.
(02:11):
Aubrey had just shooed Mr.Althorp into Mr. Jennings office.
When another knocked sounded,Aubrey went to answer it.
Mr. Althorp was already here andSmith never knocked, so Aubrey
assumed it must be one of thefloor overseers coming to report.
He opened the door on theother side stood Miss Brewster.
Aubrey wished he'd left itshut, but it was too late now.
(02:32):
"Good morning, Mr. Warren," she said.
Stepping over the threshold, shebrushed past him and strode to the
center of the office, looking thewhole of it up and down as if she
were an empress coming to her empire.
"Miss Brewster." Aubreyclosed the door behind her.
"I'm afraid this isn't a good time.""I have to disagree with you there,"
she said peering over Smith'sdesk to inspect his empty chair.
(02:53):
"Now is the only time. Where's Mr.Althorp?" Aubrey hesitated to his peril.
Miss Brewster barreled on.
"Don't try to palm me off with anexcuse. I know he's here. I saw him
come in not 10 minutes past." Shefocused her keen gaze on Mr. Jennings's
closed door and stepped towards it.
Aubrey half ran to block her path.
"Mr. Althorp is meetingwith Mr. Jennings," he said.
(03:17):
The left side of Miss Brewster's mouthquirked up, the closest to a smile
Aubrey had ever seen on her face.
"Figured that much outfor myself, thanks."
Aubrey withheld an exasperated sigh.
"If you return to your station, I wouldbe happy to fetch you once they finish."
"And give him a chance to escape?
No thank you." She leanedagainst the edge of Smith's desk.
(03:38):
"I'll just wait here until he is done."
Aubrey swallowed.
"Miss Brewster, please." "Too distractingfor you having a woman in the office?
Just keep your hands and eyes toyourself, Mr. Warren, and I'll
be quiet as a church mouse."
Aubrey refrained from rolling his eyes.
If there was one thing she needn'tfear from him, though he could
(03:58):
hardly admit as much aloud.
And true to her word, she kept remarkablystill after she crossed her arm and
turned her head towards Mr. Jennings doorwith her chin up and eyes un blinking.
But regardless of her behavior now, he hadto consider the inevitable explosion of
her impending contact with Mr. Althorp.
The crux of Aubrey's dilemmawas this: she wasn't wrong.
(04:20):
Rook Mill's wages werethe lowest in the city.
Its machinery was out of date.
Much of it in need of repair,if not outright replacement.
A deadly accident wasonly a matter of time.
Brewster and her working girlshad threatened to walk out
three times in the last year.
Mr. Jennings placated them withbreaks, leniency, and the implied
threat of a dozen other women happyto step in and take their places.
Mr. Rook with his insatiablecraving for profit cared not for
(04:43):
the literal hunger of his workforce.
Mr. Althorp, on the other hand.
Aubrey tried to derail thattrain of thought, but it had
already left the station and waswell underway to its terminus.
Compared to his predecessor,Mr. Althorp showed far more
interest in managing the mill.
Given the chance it was entirelypossible Miss Brewster could
win him over with her arguments.
(05:04):
Throwing Mr. Althorp into her path wouldmean the sacrifice of any good impression
Aubrey had made on him thus far.
But Aubrey couldn't justifynever taking the chance.
His pathetic desire for the attentionsof a handsome gentleman meant
nothing in the face of true progress.
Aubrey returned to his ledgersand did his best to pretend
Miss brewster wasn't there.
His resolve didn't have to hold for long.
(05:27):
"Make it so," declared Mr. Althorpas the door swung open and he
returned to the main office.
Miss Brewster leapt in front of him.
"Mr. Althorp," she said, thrusting outher hand before Aubrey could do more than
stand up and lurch impotently towards her.
"Miss Brewster. Weaver." Mr. Althorpappeared stunned as he took her hand.
Mr. Jennings emerged from his officein time to witness the transaction,
(05:48):
but too late to prevent it.
"How do you," Mr. Althorp began.
"Quite well. Thanks,"Miss Brewster replied.
"Mr.
Althorp, are you aware of the earningdisparity between male and female
mill hands?"
Mr. Althorp blinked at her.
Behind his back, Mr. Jennings shota horrified look from her to Aubrey.
Aubrey wanted nothing more thandrop his forehead into his palms.
(06:09):
He settled for a small shake of his head.
"I'm afraid not," said Mr. Althorp.
"Allow me to enlighten you.
All the mule spinners in RookMill are men, as are the overseers
and the foreman and the clerks.
Every job with an inkling of a livingwage belongs to a man, and before you
tell me that they must have earned thatplace," she said as Mr. Althorp opened
(06:36):
his mouth to speak.
"Let me finish.
Mule spinning, for example.
One of the highest positions a man canattain and only a man may attain it.
What reason is given for this?
Why the weaker sex haven, thestrength required to run the machine?
This is nonsense.
The self acting mule is calledsuch for an excellent reason.
It is self acting.
All the heavy lifting, allphysically taxing, mechanical
(06:57):
motions are done by the mule.
The spinner need only tend it.
Therefore, any man or woman of averagestrength should find it no difficulty.
And yet all the mule spinners are men.
Does this not seem strangeto you, Mr. Althorp?"
Mr. Althorp, after it became apparenther question wasn't rhetorical spoke.
(07:17):
"Miss Brewster, would it be possiblefor you to put your concern in writing?
I'd like to go over them in detailwith Mr. Jennings." "I'd be happy to,"
she said, "if I thought it wouldn'tbe a wasted effort on my part.
They've told us time and time again,sir, to wait patiently for all the big
important men in the world to noticeour problems and eventually solve them.
I've had enough of waiting.
I'd like your answer now." "Yes," saidMr. Althorp three sets of eyes got at him.
(07:45):
In the absence of a verbalresponse, he elaborated.
"Your foremost complaint is againstlow wages, correct?" He gestured
to Mr. Jennings over his shoulder.
"mr. Jennings and I have agreed to raise them to a level better
reflecting the mill's prosperity.""It should take effect at the end of
the week, sir," Mr. Jennings finished.
(08:07):
Mr. Althorp nodded andreturned to Miss Brewster.
"By the end of this week on myword as a gentleman, which I hope
you'll come to trust." Miss Brewstercontinued to regard him with suspicion.
Aubrey couldn't entirely blame her.
"In the meantime," said Mr. Althorp,"your writings will be most helpful
in moving forward with the mill.
(08:27):
May I have that by theend of the week as well?"
Brewster stared himdown a few seconds more.
His hopeful smile never faded.
"You may," she said at last,uncrossing her arms and holding
out her hand for him to shake.
Mr. Althorp did so, still smiling.
"A pleasure meeting you, Miss Brewster.
(08:47):
If you'll excuse me,
I have some business toconduct with Mr. Warren."
Aubrey jerked upright.
Miss Brewster gave a shortcurtsy and showed herself out.
Mr. Jennings bowed to Mr. Althorp andreturned to his office, and so Aubrey
and Mr. Althorp were left alone.
The reason for it remainedbeyond Aubrey's understanding.
Mr. Althorp, far from forthcoming, letan awkward silence settle between them.
(09:11):
After half a minute, Aubreycould stand it no longer.
"What may I do for you, sir?"
Splotches of red appeared onMr. Althorp's high cheekbones.
Aubrey gave serious considerationto inquiring after his
health before he could.
Mr. Althorp blurted outa question of his own.
"Would you care to take a turn aboutthe mill yard with me, Mr. Warren?"
(09:35):
The words poured out all at once.
The torrent sweeping overAubrey and leaving him stunned.
It took a moment forhim to collect himself.
Enough to reply, "Of course, sir."
Althorp's tight smile relaxedin unmistakable relief.
He remained silent as he left the office,though several times he bit his lip, and
twice he opened his mouth as if aboutto speak but caught himself, clearing
(09:57):
his throat and adjusting his cravat.
On one occasion, he raised hishand to cover his mouth, rubbing
his palm over the lower half ofhis face and on down his neck.
Aubrey found his eyes followingthe hand's progress as it
stroked that slender throat.
He hurriedly looked away.
They walked on in silence, pastthe boiler shed behind the mill
and back around to the offices.
(10:19):
Aubrey stopped beside the door.
"Was there anything elseyou wanted, sir?" He asked.
"Yes," said Mr.
Althorp, much to Aubrey's surprise.
"I have something for you." "Oh,"said Aubrey, his bewilderment,
barring a more articulate response.
Mr. Althorp preoccupied with retrievingsomething from the inner pocket of
his jacket, took a moment to respond.
(10:41):
"A small token of my appreciation for yourdiligence." Aubrey stared at the object
Mr. Althorp held out to him.
A narrow rectangular receptaclewith a hinge lid at one end,
made of silver and embossed withintricate curl cues around the edges.
These ornamental curls framed the centralengraving of Warren in elegant script.
(11:03):
Aubrey didn't need to see itopen to know it was empty.
The box itself was a giftand an extravagant one,
impossible as it seemed.
He couldn't deny the reality before him.
Mr. Althorp was attempting topresent him with a calling card case.
What possible use Mr. Althorp thought aclerk who scraped by on 10 shillings a
(11:24):
wig could have for such a thing, Aubreycouldn't fathom, and yet there it lay
in Mr. Althorp's outstretched palm.
It occurred to Aubrey he shouldprobably respond to this.
"I couldn't." He stammeredout the expression of anguish.
Disappointment on Mr.Althorps face silenced him.
(11:44):
"Oh, but you must," Mr. Althorp implored.
"I insist." Aubrey hesitated.
He could hardly hope to refusehis employers insistence
or retain his position.
Besides, as useless as thetrinket was, the thought behind
the gesture seems sincere.
"Thank you, sir," he said.
A second or two afterward, heremembered to take the calling
card case from Mr. Althorp's hand.
(12:06):
The metal felt warm in his fingers.
He slipped it into his waistcoat pocket.
Mr. Althorp nodded smartly, satisfied.
"You're quite welcome, Aubrey. Thatis if I might call you Aubrey."
Aubrey gave a start at the firstutterance of his Christian name in
Mr. Althorp's aristocratic accent.
It carried at ghosts ofAubrey's fantasies, but a
(12:28):
twinge of bitterness followed.
Of course, Mr. Althorp mightpresume to call him Aubrey.
It was Mr. Althorp's right ashis employer and social superior.
He could call him anything he liked.
Clerk, boy, you there, and a halfdozen ruder terms, and Aubrey
would be obliged to answer.
By the second time, Mr. Althorp saidhis name, Aubrey had recovered his
(12:48):
composure enough to respond withminimal venom, "As it suits you,
sir." "Lindsey," said Mr. Althorp.
Aubrey allowed himself a confused frown.
"Beg pardon, sir?" "Youmust call me Lindsey.
That is, if I'm to call youAubrey, it's only fair."
It took a concentrated effort on Aubrey'spart to keep his jaw from dropping open.
(13:10):
Words failed him.
He could only stare.
Althorp meanwhile seemedblissfully unaware he had said
anything out of the ordinary.
He maintained his placid smile as Aubreystared in silence, his mind chugging
along like an overworked engine to try andunderstand what the deuce was happening.
His heart beat faster,
his pulse reverberating through thecalling card case in his pocket.
(13:31):
"Very well," said Aubrey.
Then he added, "Lindsey."
Lindsey's smile broadened into a grin.
Oh my goodness.
I love the micro trope of when in ahistorical romance, the characters
finally use their first names.
(13:55):
Oh my gosh.
I'm so glad that youread that scene for us.
It is one of my favoritemicrotropes as well.
Well, I have a lot of questionsfor you, but first we're gonna take
a quick break for our sponsors.
Hey, audiobook listeners!
Have you checked out the officialHistorical Romance Sampler
(14:16):
Season 1 playlist on Libro.
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that are available to listen to on Libro.
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(14:44):
I am back with Sebastian Northwell, authorof Mr. Warren's Profession, which we
just heard, and also co-host and editorof Right Here, Write queer podcast.
And you just read us a delicioussample of this class differences
mill like labor workforce scene.
(15:05):
And you know, like we were saying, I lovethe micro trope of they've just given each
other permission to use their first names.
Some of the things that stuck out to mein this scene was the, another microtrope
that I love in class differences, whichis the kind of like the education of the
(15:28):
higher class person on howprivileged they are and how, no,
I can't use a calling card box.
So how did you think about that as youwere writing this class difference novel?
I think that particular microtrope wasinspired by how, when I was writing
this, at the time I was working boutiqueretail on food stamps, so I was like
(15:55):
struggling to get gas in my carto get to work, and meanwhile, the
people we were selling to were peoplewith vacation homes and yachts.
So like, yes, it was such a vast gulfthat about once a week I would encounter
a customer who would say something and.
(16:16):
It would just be so immediatelyevident that they lived in a
completely different world.
And every once in a while I did let theretail masks slip and tell them something
they weren't quite ready to hear.
Like,
oh,
there was a moment where one of ourfurniture dealers asked me for my
(16:37):
opinion on like how a particularpiece of wicker would work on his.
Vacation home deck.
And I was like, I'm not really in thetax bracket to answer that question.
I don't really have, I've neverreally formed that particular opinion.
Right.
What was necessary to get to a HappilyEver After in the historical romance
(17:00):
text for these two characters whoare from such different backgrounds?
It's a lot of trial and error ontheir parts, trying to bridge that
gap and it helps that the aristocraticcharacter, Lindsey, is a bit more
open-minded to bucking social normsthan most people in his class.
(17:24):
He's much more, he's not quite onEdward Carpenter level, if you're
familiar with that particular.
I think so.
Okay.
So Edward Carpenter was a late19th and early 20th century
socialist and gay rights advocate.
Okay.
So he was ahead of his time on alot of levels, and one of the more
(17:45):
notable events of his life was lookingat his middle class upbringing and
going, wait a minute, this is allhollow and pointless pageantry.
I'm going to go buy a farm and liveon it with my working class boyfriend,
and we're going to build a commune.
Okay, love it.
Yeah, so Lindsey's not quite athis level just yet, but he is
(18:06):
closer to his level than most.
Yes.
Yeah.
Well, and clearly there's a lot ofresearch, like just in this scene,
all of the conversation aboutthe self acting mule and also the
detail of the calling card case.
Can you talk to me about yourresearch process for building
this world and writing this novel?
(18:28):
Yeah, it was a lot of fun to researchjust 'cause I find the Victorian era
fascinating, just that kind of shiftfrom a pastoral society to an industrial
one, which had begun before theVictorian era happened and continued
on after the Victorian era happened.
But it's really that a hundred year spanwhere everyone goes from zero to 60.
(18:51):
Yes.
And for the mill part of it, Ididn't get the chance to travel to
England to research, but I was ableto go to Lowell, Massachusetts where
they have the Boot Mills museum.
Mm-hmm.
And the information they have availablethere, there is just like absolutely
(19:14):
mind blowing and extraordinarilyhelpful in building this world.
Yeah.
I was just like, oh my gosh.
You have looked at a mill.
I can tell you've, you've beenable to like, really sit with
this and, and, and I loved it.
I've been fortunate enough to be in aroom where they turned on just one of
the spinning jennies and the noise thatgenerated was more than enough to the
(19:39):
point where before they let you go in,they make you put on ear protection.
That's crazy.
It's wild.
And that was what children wereworking in in the 19th century.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, so you write not just historicalromance, but you also write fantasy,
romance, and paranormal stuff.
(20:00):
What draws you into a storyand like, do you know going
in what genre it's gonna be?
Or do you kind of does the storytell you as you're writing it?
I start with character archetypesfirst, and before I get any story
beats down, there's usually a coupleof like high intensity emotional
(20:20):
moments I want to have happen.
Mm-hmm.
So, like for Mr. Warren's profession,spoiler alert, I knew I wanted there
to be a boiler explosion, and Iwas like, okay, what kind of plot
do I have to build around that tomake that happen and make sense?
Do you know why you wantedthere to be a boiler explosion?
(20:42):
That, I don't know.
That I can't
explain.
I just, I was just like, you knowwhat will really make this hit?
Boiler explosion.
We'll get the big dramatic set piece.
We'll get like the emotional,is he gonna be okay?
Is he gonna make it?
We'll get the worrying separated.
(21:03):
By time and distance we'll get the,this concern for this other person
is consuming my every waking moment.
But because of the constrictionsof our society, I can't even
pretend that I know him.
Like, yeah, just that so.
I knew I wanted that kind of high octaneemotional moment, and then the rest
(21:24):
kind of fell into place like, well,now it has to be at a textile mill.
Of course.
I love that.
I love that idea.
And that it, it, it gives youso much momentum to, to start
with that really big moment.
This is a question thatreveals a lot about me.
I don't know if it reveal a lot about you,but on your website, you have Patreon,
(21:46):
and a part of your Patreon is that youoffer your drawer fic, which is like
stuff that you've started writing and it'syour unedited work that you're offering
up to your Patreon subscribers and I,
hearing about that, had so muchanxiety of like, oh my gosh,
you're letting people read that.
(22:09):
So my question is, do youhave that anxiety at all?
How do you overcome it?
Or are you maybe looking at this creativelife so differently than me that you can
tell me what, how I should change my mind?
I think it's partially a differenceof perspective and partially.
(22:29):
If someone has gone through thetrouble of subscribing to the
Patreon, they're already on my team.
So like it's less the work being judged bythe general public and more the work being
judged by a friend, if that makes sense.
Mm. Yeah.
That's lovely.
So like it's also the drawer fic that'sgoing up... Of the three going on,
(22:54):
four stories I've posted thus far, onlyone of them after posting have I been
like, you know, maybe I can fix this.
So these are by and large works that willnever be published in any other form.
So this is a way to be like, okay,they can't go on someone's bookshelf,
they can't go up for sale, but Ican kind of give them a life and
(23:19):
let someone else experience thisstory even in this fractured form.
And are you happy with how yourPatreon subscribers react to it?
They have been shockingly kind.
They have been so, so kind andso supportive, and it's just a
(23:39):
wonderful, wonderful community ofreaders that I'm so grateful for.
Oh, that's lovely.
I'm gonna try to learn from youand see if I can just a little bit,
be less precious about my work.
The other part of that, I think is I wentto school originally for illustration
(24:00):
and part of the critiques process,which I have learned isn't necessarily
standard across illustration collegeswas every week you make a piece of art.
The professors strongly encourage youto base it on something deeply personal,
ideally traumatic, and then you put itup in front of the class and the rest
(24:22):
of the class is encouraged to tear itapart piece by piece, point by point.
Just rip it down and you are notallowed to say anything in its defense.
The work has to stand on its own.
So like, no review I've receivedhas been worse than that.
So like, yeah,
(24:43):
it has given a differentperspective, I think.
Yes.
You, you've built a thick skin.
Yeah.
And I noticed your cover was illustrated.
Do you illustrate your own cover orillustrate any of your work at all?
I do occasional graphicdesign work for it.
Part of the reason I'm not afull-time illustrator now is 'cause
(25:04):
one, I'm frankly not good enough.
And two my hands kindof gave out in school.
So like, oh no, by the end of my degree,I couldn't draw enough hours every
day physically to get good and thenkeep up with building our portfolio
and producing the amount of workI would need to make it full time.
(25:25):
So switched to writing.
That's devastating.
Yeah, it was.
It was pretty rough there for a while, butthen I got a novelist career out of it.
So like, you know, silver lining.
Yes.
Right.
I still get
to tell stories even if theyaren't graphic novels like
I was originally hoping for.
Right.
Yeah.
But, Wow.
(25:46):
My cover art is done by these days.
It is Jan Falk, also known as ThistleArts across most social media.
Okay.
He does book covers for me andfor a lot of other queer romance
authors across all genres.
He's done like paranormalfantasy, historical.
He can, and honestly, watching himwork has been inspiring because like.
(26:12):
Few people have the drive hedoes to continually improve.
Like even across just my covers, like theway his work has evolved from the first
cover I've commissioned to my most recentone, it's like an absolutely incredible
amount of progress in like three years.
It's insane.
Wow.
Wow.
That's awesome.
(26:33):
Yeah.
And tell me a little bit aboutRight Here, Write Queer podcast?
What can listeners expect from that?
So, the Right Here, Write Queer podcastis me and five other queer authors
across genres from like cozy fantasyto horror, and then obviously romance.
(26:56):
Every week we have either an interviewwith an author from outside of the
podcast or discussing our own workor a panel discussing our favorite
tropes or like our writing process.
Or every once in a while we haveaudiobook previews from our back catalog.
So right now there are two chapters ofmy book, Oak King Holly King, that can be
(27:19):
listened to for free on that podcast feed.
That's so fun.
That's a great idea.
Yeah.
I love, I love the idea of thecollectiveness of it and you can get all
these different types of content going.
It is a real motivating factorin keeping going with it.
Just like being able to kind ofcollaborate 'cause like nothing.
No joy hits quite likecollaboration in my experience.
(27:42):
Like whether it's hiring a narrator oran artist or working together with other
authors for the podcast, or even just likegiving each other feedback on our work.
Like it's just, it's the purestdopamine hit I've had yet.
Mm, that's a lovely way of saying that.
Yeah.
I mean, writing is so solitarythat when you find your people.
(28:04):
It just makes a big difference.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
Okay.
I have one more question and thenwe're gonna do Love it or leave it.
Who are some of the historicalromance authors that you think
have influenced your work the most?
It feels like a cheat and acliche to say, Jane Austen.
(28:26):
You can say Jane Austen.
Technically she's acontemporary romance author.
It's just her contemporaryperiod was the early 18 hundreds.
So it's a lot of, a lot of Jane Austen.
I just really admire her the deftway she handles character building.
(28:48):
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
And just the very like.
Subtle satirical, but neverunkind approach to narrative.
Mm-hmm.
Like she's very much sitting back andhaving a laugh at everything that's
going on, but ultimately she's rootingfor her characters as much as you are.
(29:10):
Yes.
Yes.
That's lovely.
Authors more generally who'veinfluenced me, I would say.
Herman Melville is a big one.
Mm-hmm.
I read Moby Dick too young and madeit my personality for an entirely
unforgivable number of years.
And then wow.
(29:31):
Victor Hugo.
So you like chunky books.
I do.
And then I write them and I'mlike, uhoh, maybe, maybe I should
get into some Hemingway andfigure out how to trim this down.
And then Charles Dickens just 'causelike the Mystery of Edwin Drood.
(29:51):
I have gotten three of my own novelsout of trying to make that make sense.
Oh, interesting.
I think.
I think I finally got it out of my system.
But yeah, for, for a while we, we'll see.
It was just like,
it was just like, well, he left thisunfinished, so how, what would have to
(30:14):
happen in order to make this make sense?
That's very interesting.
And very 19th century.
So it makes sense thatyou write 19th century.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Well.
Now it's time to play love it.
Or leave it and find out how manyromance rules you like to break!
(30:34):
[Musical Interlude]
Love it or leave it?
Protagonists meet in thefirst 10% of the story.
I've always followed this rule, but Idon't think it necessarily has to be.
'cause I've definitely,
well, certainly not in Victor Hugo.
Yeah.
(30:56):
You're halfway through the dangbook before les amis show up.
Okay.
Love it or leave it?
Dual point of view narration.
I love it.
Love it or leave it?
Third person past tense.
Can't live without it.
(31:17):
Love it or leave it?
Third act breakup or dark moment.
Leave it, leave it in the harbor.
Tie cement bricks to it.
Just let it go.
Just let it go.
Okay?
Love it or leave it?
Always end with an epilogue.
I've never been upset by the lack of one.
(31:42):
Okay.
Does that make sense?
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
Love it or leave it?
Always share your researchin your author's note.
I should be better about this.
I haven't done it.
If only just 'cause like by the time abook's ready for publication, I'm so done.
I don't want to think about ita second longer than I have to.
Yes.
But I have made social media postssharing my research if that counts.
(32:07):
Yeah, it does.
Yeah.
Are there any other romance rules that Ididn't ask about that you like to break?
Not that I'm aware of.
I know there are definitelythings I've done that have upset.
People who are expecting something else.
But what are your, what are yourthoughts on the hurt comfort trope?
(32:30):
I like the hurt comfort trope.
I think it depends how,it's like anything.
It depends how it's done.
I don't know that it can be,I don't know that I've read it
as the main trope of a book.
It's more like a beat.
But I tend to like it.
Yes, I have been, stubborn enough,let's say, to use it as the main
(32:51):
beat of a story with mixed results.
The people who love it really love it,and other people are very confused as to
why there are no fewer than four sequencesof characters getting injured and then
recovering, and then they're injuredagain, and then they're recovering again.
I wouldn't even believe it.
(33:12):
Oh, interesting.
It's something I'd always wanted tosee more of in fiction, but I have
definitely struggled with how to marketit to its very, very pinpointed audience.
Is it always the same caretaker orare they kind of like switching off?
They're switching off, but like, okay.
(33:32):
Even the, even that was a bitmuch for folks and like, I get it.
If it's not like your bread and butter,if it's not what you get out of bed in
the morning for, it can get tiresome.
Well, okay, now I'm gonna readit to, to have an opinion,
which, which story is this?
This would be Fiorenzo my, my HistoricalFantasy based on, it's a world very
(33:56):
heavily based on 18th century Venice.
Ooh, that's exciting.
And there may or may not be dragons.
Oh, okay.
Well, so that's a, that'sa good time for me to ask.
Where can our listeners find moreabout you and your many books?
You can find me, all my social media,all my books, all my podcasts, my
(34:17):
everything on sebastian nothwell.com.
Awesome.
And I'm gonna put that in the show notes.
So listeners, you can just go click.
Sebastian, thank you so much.
This has been really fun to hang out withyou and talk to you and get to know you.
Thank you so much for having me.
This is a hoot and a holler.
That's it for this week!
(34:37):
Don't forget to subscribe to theHistorical Romance Sampler wherever
you listen, and follow us onInstagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Until next week, happy reading!
Welcome to the historicalromance sampler podcast.
I'm your host, Katherine Grant, andeach week I introduce you to another
amazing historical romance author.
My guest reads a little sampleof their work, and then we move
into a free ranging interview.
If you like these episodes, don'tforget to subscribe to the historical
(00:24):
romance sampler, wherever youlisten to podcasts and follow us
on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Now let's get into this week's episode.
I am very excited to be joinedtoday by Sebastian Northwell.
Sebastian writes queerromance when not writing.
(00:45):
He is counting down the minutes untilhe is permitted to return to writing.
He is also co-host and editor ofthe Right Here Write Queer podcast.
He is absolutely not a ghost anddefinitely did not die in 1895.
Sebastian, thank you so muchfor joining the podcast today.
(01:07):
Thank you for having me.
Yeah, I am super excited.
You write all sorts of differentromances and today you're sharing
a historical romance with us.
I am.
I am sharing Mr. Warren's profession,which is my 1890s cross class
mill owner, mill worker, romance.
Ooh.
(01:27):
Gotta love a mill owner, mill worker.
All right.
Is there anything we need to knowabout the story as you jump in?
The scene I'm jumping into
how to describe it takes placeat the mill as one might expect,
(01:47):
and our heroes are not yetan item, but they're slowly
on the path to becoming one.
Ooh, love it.
(02:11):
Aubrey had just shooed Mr.Althorp into Mr. Jennings office.
When another knocked sounded,Aubrey went to answer it.
Mr. Althorp was already here andSmith never knocked, so Aubrey
assumed it must be one of thefloor overseers coming to report.
He opened the door on theother side stood Miss Brewster.
Aubrey wished he'd left itshut, but it was too late now.
(02:32):
"Good morning, Mr. Warren," she said.
Stepping over the threshold, shebrushed past him and strode to the
center of the office, looking thewhole of it up and down as if she
were an empress coming to her empire.
"Miss Brewster." Aubreyclosed the door behind her.
"I'm afraid this isn't a good time.""I have to disagree with you there,"
she said peering over Smith'sdesk to inspect his empty chair.
(02:53):
"Now is the only time. Where's Mr.Althorp?" Aubrey hesitated to his peril.
Miss Brewster barreled on.
"Don't try to palm me off with anexcuse. I know he's here. I saw him
come in not 10 minutes past." Shefocused her keen gaze on Mr. Jennings's
closed door and stepped towards it.
Aubrey half ran to block her path.
"Mr. Althorp is meetingwith Mr. Jennings," he said.
(03:17):
The left side of Miss Brewster's mouthquirked up, the closest to a smile
Aubrey had ever seen on her face.
"Figured that much outfor myself, thanks."
Aubrey withheld an exasperated sigh.
"If you return to your station, I wouldbe happy to fetch you once they finish."
"And give him a chance to escape?
No thank you." She leanedagainst the edge of Smith's desk.
(03:38):
"I'll just wait here until he is done."
Aubrey swallowed.
"Miss Brewster, please." "Too distractingfor you having a woman in the office?
Just keep your hands and eyes toyourself, Mr. Warren, and I'll
be quiet as a church mouse."
Aubrey refrained from rolling his eyes.
If there was one thing she needn'tfear from him, though he could
(03:58):
hardly admit as much aloud.
And true to her word, she kept remarkablystill after she crossed her arm and
turned her head towards Mr. Jennings doorwith her chin up and eyes un blinking.
But regardless of her behavior now, he hadto consider the inevitable explosion of
her impending contact with Mr. Althorp.
The crux of Aubrey's dilemmawas this: she wasn't wrong.
(04:20):
Rook Mill's wages werethe lowest in the city.
Its machinery was out of date.
Much of it in need of repair,if not outright replacement.
A deadly accident wasonly a matter of time.
Brewster and her working girlshad threatened to walk out
three times in the last year.
Mr. Jennings placated them withbreaks, leniency, and the implied
threat of a dozen other women happyto step in and take their places.
Mr. Rook with his insatiablecraving for profit cared not for
(04:43):
the literal hunger of his workforce.
Mr. Althorp, on the other hand.
Aubrey tried to derail thattrain of thought, but it had
already left the station and waswell underway to its terminus.
Compared to his predecessor,Mr. Althorp showed far more
interest in managing the mill.
Given the chance it was entirelypossible Miss Brewster could
win him over with her arguments.
(05:04):
Throwing Mr. Althorp into her path wouldmean the sacrifice of any good impression
Aubrey had made on him thus far.
But Aubrey couldn't justifynever taking the chance.
His pathetic desire for the attentionsof a handsome gentleman meant
nothing in the face of true progress.
Aubrey returned to his ledgersand did his best to pretend
Miss brewster wasn't there.
His resolve didn't have to hold for long.
(05:27):
"Make it so," declared Mr. Althorpas the door swung open and he
returned to the main office.
Miss Brewster leapt in front of him.
"Mr. Althorp," she said, thrusting outher hand before Aubrey could do more than
stand up and lurch impotently towards her.
"Miss Brewster. Weaver." Mr. Althorpappeared stunned as he took her hand.
Mr. Jennings emerged from his officein time to witness the transaction,
(05:48):
but too late to prevent it.
"How do you," Mr. Althorp began.
"Quite well. Thanks,"Miss Brewster replied.
"Mr.
Althorp, are you aware of the earningdisparity between male and female
mill hands?"
Mr. Althorp blinked at her.
Behind his back, Mr. Jennings shota horrified look from her to Aubrey.
Aubrey wanted nothing more thandrop his forehead into his palms.
(06:09):
He settled for a small shake of his head.
"I'm afraid not," said Mr. Althorp.
"Allow me to enlighten you.
All the mule spinners in RookMill are men, as are the overseers
and the foreman and the clerks.
Every job with an inkling of a livingwage belongs to a man, and before you
tell me that they must have earned thatplace," she said as Mr. Althorp opened
(06:36):
his mouth to speak.
"Let me finish.
Mule spinning, for example.
One of the highest positions a man canattain and only a man may attain it.
What reason is given for this?
Why the weaker sex haven, thestrength required to run the machine?
This is nonsense.
The self acting mule is calledsuch for an excellent reason.
It is self acting.
All the heavy lifting, allphysically taxing, mechanical
(06:57):
motions are done by the mule.
The spinner need only tend it.
Therefore, any man or woman of averagestrength should find it no difficulty.
And yet all the mule spinners are men.
Does this not seem strangeto you, Mr. Althorp?"
Mr. Althorp, after it became apparenther question wasn't rhetorical spoke.
(07:17):
"Miss Brewster, would it be possiblefor you to put your concern in writing?
I'd like to go over them in detailwith Mr. Jennings." "I'd be happy to,"
she said, "if I thought it wouldn'tbe a wasted effort on my part.
They've told us time and time again,sir, to wait patiently for all the big
important men in the world to noticeour problems and eventually solve them.
I've had enough of waiting.
I'd like your answer now." "Yes," saidMr. Althorp three sets of eyes got at him.
(07:45):
In the absence of a verbalresponse, he elaborated.
"Your foremost complaint is againstlow wages, correct?" He gestured
to Mr. Jennings over his shoulder.
"mr. Jennings and I have agreed to raise them to a level better
reflecting the mill's prosperity.""It should take effect at the end of
the week, sir," Mr. Jennings finished.
(08:07):
Mr. Althorp nodded andreturned to Miss Brewster.
"By the end of this week on myword as a gentleman, which I hope
you'll come to trust." Miss Brewstercontinued to regard him with suspicion.
Aubrey couldn't entirely blame her.
"In the meantime," said Mr. Althorp,"your writings will be most helpful
in moving forward with the mill.
(08:27):
May I have that by theend of the week as well?"
Brewster stared himdown a few seconds more.
His hopeful smile never faded.
"You may," she said at last,uncrossing her arms and holding
out her hand for him to shake.
Mr. Althorp did so, still smiling.
"A pleasure meeting you, Miss Brewster.
(08:47):
If you'll excuse me,
I have some business toconduct with Mr. Warren."
Aubrey jerked upright.
Miss Brewster gave a shortcurtsy and showed herself out.
Mr. Jennings bowed to Mr. Althorp andreturned to his office, and so Aubrey
and Mr. Althorp were left alone.
The reason for it remainedbeyond Aubrey's understanding.
Mr. Althorp, far from forthcoming, letan awkward silence settle between them.
(09:11):
After half a minute, Aubreycould stand it no longer.
"What may I do for you, sir?"
Splotches of red appeared onMr. Althorp's high cheekbones.
Aubrey gave serious considerationto inquiring after his
health before he could.
Mr. Althorp blurted outa question of his own.
"Would you care to take a turn aboutthe mill yard with me, Mr. Warren?"
(09:35):
The words poured out all at once.
The torrent sweeping overAubrey and leaving him stunned.
It took a moment forhim to collect himself.
Enough to reply, "Of course, sir."
Althorp's tight smile relaxedin unmistakable relief.
He remained silent as he left the office,though several times he bit his lip, and
twice he opened his mouth as if aboutto speak but caught himself, clearing
(09:57):
his throat and adjusting his cravat.
On one occasion, he raised hishand to cover his mouth, rubbing
his palm over the lower half ofhis face and on down his neck.
Aubrey found his eyes followingthe hand's progress as it
stroked that slender throat.
He hurriedly looked away.
They walked on in silence, pastthe boiler shed behind the mill
and back around to the offices.
(10:19):
Aubrey stopped beside the door.
"Was there anything elseyou wanted, sir?" He asked.
"Yes," said Mr.
Althorp, much to Aubrey's surprise.
"I have something for you." "Oh,"said Aubrey, his bewilderment,
barring a more articulate response.
Mr. Althorp preoccupied with retrievingsomething from the inner pocket of
his jacket, took a moment to respond.
(10:41):
"A small token of my appreciation for yourdiligence." Aubrey stared at the object
Mr. Althorp held out to him.
A narrow rectangular receptaclewith a hinge lid at one end,
made of silver and embossed withintricate curl cues around the edges.
These ornamental curls framed the centralengraving of Warren in elegant script.
(11:03):
Aubrey didn't need to see itopen to know it was empty.
The box itself was a giftand an extravagant one,
impossible as it seemed.
He couldn't deny the reality before him.
Mr. Althorp was attempting topresent him with a calling card case.
What possible use Mr. Althorp thought aclerk who scraped by on 10 shillings a
(11:24):
wig could have for such a thing, Aubreycouldn't fathom, and yet there it lay
in Mr. Althorp's outstretched palm.
It occurred to Aubrey he shouldprobably respond to this.
"I couldn't." He stammeredout the expression of anguish.
Disappointment on Mr.Althorps face silenced him.
(11:44):
"Oh, but you must," Mr. Althorp implored.
"I insist." Aubrey hesitated.
He could hardly hope to refusehis employers insistence
or retain his position.
Besides, as useless as thetrinket was, the thought behind
the gesture seems sincere.
"Thank you, sir," he said.
A second or two afterward, heremembered to take the calling
card case from Mr. Althorp's hand.
(12:06):
The metal felt warm in his fingers.
He slipped it into his waistcoat pocket.
Mr. Althorp nodded smartly, satisfied.
"You're quite welcome, Aubrey. Thatis if I might call you Aubrey."
Aubrey gave a start at the firstutterance of his Christian name in
Mr. Althorp's aristocratic accent.
It carried at ghosts ofAubrey's fantasies, but a
(12:28):
twinge of bitterness followed.
Of course, Mr. Althorp mightpresume to call him Aubrey.
It was Mr. Althorp's right ashis employer and social superior.
He could call him anything he liked.
Clerk, boy, you there, and a halfdozen ruder terms, and Aubrey
would be obliged to answer.
By the second time, Mr. Althorp saidhis name, Aubrey had recovered his
(12:48):
composure enough to respond withminimal venom, "As it suits you,
sir." "Lindsey," said Mr. Althorp.
Aubrey allowed himself a confused frown.
"Beg pardon, sir?" "Youmust call me Lindsey.
That is, if I'm to call youAubrey, it's only fair."
It took a concentrated effort on Aubrey'spart to keep his jaw from dropping open.
(13:10):
Words failed him.
He could only stare.
Althorp meanwhile seemedblissfully unaware he had said
anything out of the ordinary.
He maintained his placid smile as Aubreystared in silence, his mind chugging
along like an overworked engine to try andunderstand what the deuce was happening.
His heart beat faster,
his pulse reverberating through thecalling card case in his pocket.
(13:31):
"Very well," said Aubrey.
Then he added, "Lindsey."
Lindsey's smile broadened into a grin.
Oh my goodness.
I love the micro trope of when in ahistorical romance, the characters
finally use their first names.
(13:55):
Oh my gosh.
I'm so glad that youread that scene for us.
It is one of my favoritemicrotropes as well.
Well, I have a lot of questionsfor you, but first we're gonna take
a quick break for our sponsors.
Hey, audiobook listeners!
Have you checked out the officialHistorical Romance Sampler
(14:16):
Season 1 playlist on Libro.
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Head on over to the Historical RomanceSampler link tree to learn more.
(14:44):
I am back with Sebastian Northwell, authorof Mr. Warren's Profession, which we
just heard, and also co-host and editorof Right Here, Write queer podcast.
And you just read us a delicioussample of this class differences
mill like labor workforce scene.
(15:05):
And you know, like we were saying, I lovethe micro trope of they've just given each
other permission to use their first names.
Some of the things that stuck out to mein this scene was the, another microtrope
that I love in class differences, whichis the kind of like the education of the
(15:28):
higher class person on howprivileged they are and how, no,
I can't use a calling card box.
So how did you think about that as youwere writing this class difference novel?
I think that particular microtrope wasinspired by how, when I was writing
this, at the time I was working boutiqueretail on food stamps, so I was like
(15:55):
struggling to get gas in my carto get to work, and meanwhile, the
people we were selling to were peoplewith vacation homes and yachts.
So like, yes, it was such a vast gulfthat about once a week I would encounter
a customer who would say something and.
(16:16):
It would just be so immediatelyevident that they lived in a
completely different world.
And every once in a while I did let theretail masks slip and tell them something
they weren't quite ready to hear.
Like,
oh,
there was a moment where one of ourfurniture dealers asked me for my
(16:37):
opinion on like how a particularpiece of wicker would work on his.
Vacation home deck.
And I was like, I'm not really in thetax bracket to answer that question.
I don't really have, I've neverreally formed that particular opinion.
Right.
What was necessary to get to a HappilyEver After in the historical romance
(17:00):
text for these two characters whoare from such different backgrounds?
It's a lot of trial and error ontheir parts, trying to bridge that
gap and it helps that the aristocraticcharacter, Lindsey, is a bit more
open-minded to bucking social normsthan most people in his class.
(17:24):
He's much more, he's not quite onEdward Carpenter level, if you're
familiar with that particular.
I think so.
Okay.
So Edward Carpenter was a late19th and early 20th century
socialist and gay rights advocate.
Okay.
So he was ahead of his time on alot of levels, and one of the more
(17:45):
notable events of his life was lookingat his middle class upbringing and
going, wait a minute, this is allhollow and pointless pageantry.
I'm going to go buy a farm and liveon it with my working class boyfriend,
and we're going to build a commune.
Okay, love it.
Yeah, so Lindsey's not quite athis level just yet, but he is
(18:06):
closer to his level than most.
Yes.
Yeah.
Well, and clearly there's a lot ofresearch, like just in this scene,
all of the conversation aboutthe self acting mule and also the
detail of the calling card case.
Can you talk to me about yourresearch process for building
this world and writing this novel?
(18:28):
Yeah, it was a lot of fun to researchjust 'cause I find the Victorian era
fascinating, just that kind of shiftfrom a pastoral society to an industrial
one, which had begun before theVictorian era happened and continued
on after the Victorian era happened.
But it's really that a hundred year spanwhere everyone goes from zero to 60.
(18:51):
Yes.
And for the mill part of it, Ididn't get the chance to travel to
England to research, but I was ableto go to Lowell, Massachusetts where
they have the Boot Mills museum.
Mm-hmm.
And the information they have availablethere, there is just like absolutely
(19:14):
mind blowing and extraordinarilyhelpful in building this world.
Yeah.
I was just like, oh my gosh.
You have looked at a mill.
I can tell you've, you've beenable to like, really sit with
this and, and, and I loved it.
I've been fortunate enough to be in aroom where they turned on just one of
the spinning jennies and the noise thatgenerated was more than enough to the
(19:39):
point where before they let you go in,they make you put on ear protection.
That's crazy.
It's wild.
And that was what children wereworking in in the 19th century.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, so you write not just historicalromance, but you also write fantasy,
romance, and paranormal stuff.
(20:00):
What draws you into a storyand like, do you know going
in what genre it's gonna be?
Or do you kind of does the storytell you as you're writing it?
I start with character archetypesfirst, and before I get any story
beats down, there's usually a coupleof like high intensity emotional
(20:20):
moments I want to have happen.
Mm-hmm.
So, like for Mr. Warren's profession,spoiler alert, I knew I wanted there
to be a boiler explosion, and Iwas like, okay, what kind of plot
do I have to build around that tomake that happen and make sense?
Do you know why you wantedthere to be a boiler explosion?
(20:42):
That, I don't know.
That I can't
explain.
I just, I was just like, you knowwhat will really make this hit?
Boiler explosion.
We'll get the big dramatic set piece.
We'll get like the emotional,is he gonna be okay?
Is he gonna make it?
We'll get the worrying separated.
(21:03):
By time and distance we'll get the,this concern for this other person
is consuming my every waking moment.
But because of the constrictionsof our society, I can't even
pretend that I know him.
Like, yeah, just that so.
I knew I wanted that kind of high octaneemotional moment, and then the rest
(21:24):
kind of fell into place like, well,now it has to be at a textile mill.
Of course.
I love that.
I love that idea.
And that it, it, it gives youso much momentum to, to start
with that really big moment.
This is a question thatreveals a lot about me.
I don't know if it reveal a lot about you,but on your website, you have Patreon,
(21:46):
and a part of your Patreon is that youoffer your drawer fic, which is like
stuff that you've started writing and it'syour unedited work that you're offering
up to your Patreon subscribers and I,
hearing about that, had so muchanxiety of like, oh my gosh,
you're letting people read that.
(22:09):
So my question is, do youhave that anxiety at all?
How do you overcome it?
Or are you maybe looking at this creativelife so differently than me that you can
tell me what, how I should change my mind?
I think it's partially a differenceof perspective and partially.
(22:29):
If someone has gone through thetrouble of subscribing to the
Patreon, they're already on my team.
So like it's less the work being judged bythe general public and more the work being
judged by a friend, if that makes sense.
Mm. Yeah.
That's lovely.
So like it's also the drawer fic that'sgoing up... Of the three going on,
(22:54):
four stories I've posted thus far, onlyone of them after posting have I been
like, you know, maybe I can fix this.
So these are by and large works that willnever be published in any other form.
So this is a way to be like, okay,they can't go on someone's bookshelf,
they can't go up for sale, but Ican kind of give them a life and
(23:19):
let someone else experience thisstory even in this fractured form.
And are you happy with how yourPatreon subscribers react to it?
They have been shockingly kind.
They have been so, so kind andso supportive, and it's just a
(23:39):
wonderful, wonderful community ofreaders that I'm so grateful for.
Oh, that's lovely.
I'm gonna try to learn from youand see if I can just a little bit,
be less precious about my work.
The other part of that, I think is I wentto school originally for illustration
(24:00):
and part of the critiques process,which I have learned isn't necessarily
standard across illustration collegeswas every week you make a piece of art.
The professors strongly encourage youto base it on something deeply personal,
ideally traumatic, and then you put itup in front of the class and the rest
(24:22):
of the class is encouraged to tear itapart piece by piece, point by point.
Just rip it down and you are notallowed to say anything in its defense.
The work has to stand on its own.
So like, no review I've receivedhas been worse than that.
So like, yeah,
(24:43):
it has given a differentperspective, I think.
Yes.
You, you've built a thick skin.
Yeah.
And I noticed your cover was illustrated.
Do you illustrate your own cover orillustrate any of your work at all?
I do occasional graphicdesign work for it.
Part of the reason I'm not afull-time illustrator now is 'cause
(25:04):
one, I'm frankly not good enough.
And two my hands kindof gave out in school.
So like, oh no, by the end of my degree,I couldn't draw enough hours every
day physically to get good and thenkeep up with building our portfolio
and producing the amount of workI would need to make it full time.
(25:25):
So switched to writing.
That's devastating.
Yeah, it was.
It was pretty rough there for a while, butthen I got a novelist career out of it.
So like, you know, silver lining.
Yes.
Right.
I still get
to tell stories even if theyaren't graphic novels like
I was originally hoping for.
Right.
Yeah.
But, Wow.
(25:46):
My cover art is done by these days.
It is Jan Falk, also known as ThistleArts across most social media.
Okay.
He does book covers for me andfor a lot of other queer romance
authors across all genres.
He's done like paranormalfantasy, historical.
He can, and honestly, watching himwork has been inspiring because like.
(26:12):
Few people have the drive hedoes to continually improve.
Like even across just my covers, like theway his work has evolved from the first
cover I've commissioned to my most recentone, it's like an absolutely incredible
amount of progress in like three years.
It's insane.
Wow.
Wow.
That's awesome.
(26:33):
Yeah.
And tell me a little bit aboutRight Here, Write Queer podcast?
What can listeners expect from that?
So, the Right Here, Write Queer podcastis me and five other queer authors
across genres from like cozy fantasyto horror, and then obviously romance.
(26:56):
Every week we have either an interviewwith an author from outside of the
podcast or discussing our own workor a panel discussing our favorite
tropes or like our writing process.
Or every once in a while we haveaudiobook previews from our back catalog.
So right now there are two chapters ofmy book, Oak King Holly King, that can be
(27:19):
listened to for free on that podcast feed.
That's so fun.
That's a great idea.
Yeah.
I love, I love the idea of thecollectiveness of it and you can get all
these different types of content going.
It is a real motivating factorin keeping going with it.
Just like being able to kind ofcollaborate 'cause like nothing.
No joy hits quite likecollaboration in my experience.
(27:42):
Like whether it's hiring a narrator oran artist or working together with other
authors for the podcast, or even just likegiving each other feedback on our work.
Like it's just, it's the purestdopamine hit I've had yet.
Mm, that's a lovely way of saying that.
Yeah.
I mean, writing is so solitarythat when you find your people.
(28:04):
It just makes a big difference.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
Okay.
I have one more question and thenwe're gonna do Love it or leave it.
Who are some of the historicalromance authors that you think
have influenced your work the most?
It feels like a cheat and acliche to say, Jane Austen.
(28:26):
You can say Jane Austen.
Technically she's acontemporary romance author.
It's just her contemporaryperiod was the early 18 hundreds.
So it's a lot of, a lot of Jane Austen.
I just really admire her the deftway she handles character building.
(28:48):
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
And just the very like.
Subtle satirical, but neverunkind approach to narrative.
Mm-hmm.
Like she's very much sitting back andhaving a laugh at everything that's
going on, but ultimately she's rootingfor her characters as much as you are.
(29:10):
Yes.
Yes.
That's lovely.
Authors more generally who'veinfluenced me, I would say.
Herman Melville is a big one.
Mm-hmm.
I read Moby Dick too young and madeit my personality for an entirely
unforgivable number of years.
And then wow.
(29:31):
Victor Hugo.
So you like chunky books.
I do.
And then I write them and I'mlike, uhoh, maybe, maybe I should
get into some Hemingway andfigure out how to trim this down.
And then Charles Dickens just 'causelike the Mystery of Edwin Drood.
(29:51):
I have gotten three of my own novelsout of trying to make that make sense.
Oh, interesting.
I think.
I think I finally got it out of my system.
But yeah, for, for a while we, we'll see.
It was just like,
it was just like, well, he left thisunfinished, so how, what would have to
(30:14):
happen in order to make this make sense?
That's very interesting.
And very 19th century.
So it makes sense thatyou write 19th century.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Well.
Now it's time to play love it.
Or leave it and find out how manyromance rules you like to break!
(30:34):
[Musical Interlude]
Love it or leave it?
Protagonists meet in thefirst 10% of the story.
I've always followed this rule, but Idon't think it necessarily has to be.
'cause I've definitely,
well, certainly not in Victor Hugo.
Yeah.
(30:56):
You're halfway through the dangbook before les amis show up.
Okay.
Love it or leave it?
Dual point of view narration.
I love it.
Love it or leave it?
Third person past tense.
Can't live without it.
(31:17):
Love it or leave it?
Third act breakup or dark moment.
Leave it, leave it in the harbor.
Tie cement bricks to it.
Just let it go.
Just let it go.
Okay?
Love it or leave it?
Always end with an epilogue.
I've never been upset by the lack of one.
(31:42):
Okay.
Does that make sense?
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
Love it or leave it?
Always share your researchin your author's note.
I should be better about this.
I haven't done it.
If only just 'cause like by the time abook's ready for publication, I'm so done.
I don't want to think about ita second longer than I have to.
Yes.
But I have made social media postssharing my research if that counts.
(32:07):
Yeah, it does.
Yeah.
Are there any other romance rules that Ididn't ask about that you like to break?
Not that I'm aware of.
I know there are definitelythings I've done that have upset.
People who are expecting something else.
But what are your, what are yourthoughts on the hurt comfort trope?
(32:30):
I like the hurt comfort trope.
I think it depends how,it's like anything.
It depends how it's done.
I don't know that it can be,I don't know that I've read it
as the main trope of a book.
It's more like a beat.
But I tend to like it.
Yes, I have been, stubborn enough,let's say, to use it as the main
(32:51):
beat of a story with mixed results.
The people who love it really love it,and other people are very confused as to
why there are no fewer than four sequencesof characters getting injured and then
recovering, and then they're injuredagain, and then they're recovering again.
I wouldn't even believe it.
(33:12):
Oh, interesting.
It's something I'd always wanted tosee more of in fiction, but I have
definitely struggled with how to marketit to its very, very pinpointed audience.
Is it always the same caretaker orare they kind of like switching off?
They're switching off, but like, okay.
(33:32):
Even the, even that was a bitmuch for folks and like, I get it.
If it's not like your bread and butter,if it's not what you get out of bed in
the morning for, it can get tiresome.
Well, okay, now I'm gonna readit to, to have an opinion,
which, which story is this?
This would be Fiorenzo my, my HistoricalFantasy based on, it's a world very
(33:56):
heavily based on 18th century Venice.
Ooh, that's exciting.
And there may or may not be dragons.
Oh, okay.
Well, so that's a, that'sa good time for me to ask.
Where can our listeners find moreabout you and your many books?
You can find me, all my social media,all my books, all my podcasts, my
(34:17):
everything on sebastian nothwell.com.
Awesome.
And I'm gonna put that in the show notes.
So listeners, you can just go click.
Sebastian, thank you so much.
This has been really fun to hang out withyou and talk to you and get to know you.
Thank you so much for having me.
This is a hoot and a holler.
That's it for this week!
(34:37):
Don't forget to subscribe to theHistorical Romance Sampler wherever
you listen, and follow us onInstagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Until next week, happy reading!
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