October 3, 2025 • 41 mins
Adam is joined by guest hypnotist Rebecca Wagner.
Rebecca is a sought-after hypnotist and mindset coach known for helping women break free from stress and reconnect to who they really are. Her signature blend of hypnosis and NLP creates a powerful, life-changing experience. From client sessions to stage shows to her own podcast, The Stressed to Best Podcast, she offers a new perspective on transformation that can shift you at the core.
3 Day Reset Series here: https://rebeccawagnercoaching.kit.com/mindsetreset
The Mirror Within Audio:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KrzeIJUjQXuUbEtxie0uq2v7608-NTJz/view?usp=sharing
More details here: Www.instagram.com/rebeccawagnercoaching
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Welcome to The Hypnotist, the show that gives you inside
access to cutting edge hypnosis with real clients facing genuine
issues. Brought to you by the
Hypnotherapist, demanded by celebrities, CEOs and even
royalty. Adam Cox.
These recordings took place livefrom Adam Smith in London's
world famous Harley Street. So get yourself comfortable and
(00:31):
enjoy today's episode of The Hypnotist.
Welcome to the hypnotist. My name is Adam Cox and today
I'm not your hypnotist. We have a guest hypnotist and
that is Rebecca Wechner. Welcome to the show, Rebecca.
Thank you, Adam. Great to have you.
(00:52):
Here. Great to have you here.
So one of the things I'm always curious about when I'm meeting a
hypnotherapist is how they actually became a
hypnotherapist. For you, what was the catalyst?
What was the key thing that madeyou curious about the world of
hypnotherapy and then actually to become a therapist?
So mine is twofold. My background for the last 15
(01:15):
years I've been a massage therapist and the amount of
people that I've helped in the massage room has been crazy.
And over the years would be people would be like, I would
work on a muscle and they'd be like, I don't even know why I
told you that story. I've never even told my wife
that or they'd leave. They'd be like, that was the
best massage ever. What did you do?
And I'm like, I literally did nothing different.
(01:37):
And I realized that when I'm working on the muscle, they
would be telling the story and then it would release twofold
from the muscle and then also from their mind too.
So I was like, it has to be mental.
And at the same time, I was going through a big life change
where I had already, I was turning 30 and I'd already done
(01:58):
all the things. I already started a career, had
kids, got married, got a house, did all the things I was
supposed to do. And I was coming to this point.
I'm like, who am I? Who am I moving forward?
And I knew I had to dive deeper in inside of myself as well.
And so I started on this journeylooking for something in the
mind work. And I knew I always loved
(02:20):
energy. I always knew that somehow I
would get involved in the energyworld, just didn't know how.
And then I was talking to a colleague of mine.
I'm like, I found this thing called NLP and hypnosis.
I'm like, I'm not sure if it's for me or not.
And she looks at me, she touchedme on the shoulder and she's
like, no, Rebecca, that is exactly what you need.
That's not only going to help change your life, it's going to
(02:41):
help everybody you work with moving forward.
I'm like, OK, so I looked into it and it was a Thursday.
I remember and I had called this, this training company that
was really local to me. I'm like, oh, bonus.
And I was signed up and ready totake the practitioner training
within the next week. And it just went, I've just gone
(03:01):
downhill from there in the most amazing way because I've helped
so many people in so many different ways change their
mindset, their lives, as well asmy own as well.
Do you think your background in actually working with the
physical body gives you a different perspective?
Because there is a great deal ofbelief, whether it's through NLP
in terms of kinesthetics and modalities, or this idea that
(03:25):
emotions are stored actually in the body.
Do you have a different perspective on that because of
your background? I 100% believe that emotions are
stored in the body because it would be funny and I've done a
lot of extra learning. I know Louise Hay talks about it
in her book, You Can Heal Your Life.
You've also got the new Germanicmedicine, I think it's called,
(03:48):
where it talks about how all of our body parts mean something
differently. And so when it comes to say low
back pain, oftentimes low back, and it's very universal, has to
do with financial issues. So you may have a lot of money,
you may have no money. You're just stressing about
money. It shows up in the back and with
massage. When I would talk to somebody
about just finances in general, they're like, what did you do?
(04:11):
Because my back pains decrease or has gone away.
I'm like, we just brought it to surface.
So one hundred, 100%. I fully believe that the
emotions are totally connected to the body and the mind.
And with things, let's say the the two dominant emotions that
kind of affect most people in a negative way, it's probably like
(04:32):
stress and anxiety. How does stress kind of manifest
in the body compared to let's say someone very anxious all the
time? OK, so stress is, I'm going to
say in this way, stress and anxiety.
Stress is thinking about things of the past, things that have
already happened. When you carry a lot of stress
in your shoulders, you're literally carrying the weight of
(04:53):
the world on your shoulders. And stress and energy has weight
to it. So it shows up in the shoulders.
Let's just say anxiety is fear of the unknown of the future.
Anxiety is always thinking aboutwhat could go wrong in the
future, even though it hasn't happened.
And our minds, as you know, don't know what's real and
what's not real. And so when you start to think
(05:15):
of these thoughts that haven't happened yet, it shows up in the
body. So that's how that's how I look
at it. And that's how they're really
connected to the stress and anxiety.
Yeah, and I remember a study years ago about for people with
long term depression, they gave them a toothbrush to put in
between their teeth and look at the mirror for 5 minutes a day,
(05:37):
and because it mimicked the samemuscles as a smile, they
actually kind of felt better. Do you find that works the same
way that if someone is carrying,let's say, a lot of tension, a
lot of stress, a lot of anxiety and that gets released
physically, then their mood changes?
And then vice versa if you work with someone
hypnotherapeutically, not with nothing to do with the body and
(06:00):
then the body changes it. Is it like a two way street from
your experience? I would say yes, and that sounds
like a super cool study. I've never heard of that one
with the toothbrush, but it makes sense.
I was taught working with somebody a couple weeks ago and
it was something simple in the hypnosis.
It was a hypnosis session and wewere talking about let's create
(06:21):
what we were calling the badass list.
And the badass list is all the things you've done in your life
that are friggin awesome to be able to come back to those
emotions right then and there onthe spot.
And if you're feeling down, thenyou can go back to your badass
list and it could be whatever itis for you.
Maybe you got that perfect job. Maybe you had a bought a house.
(06:42):
Maybe you, it was your life goalto get married, write a book,
whatever it was, you know what those feelings are.
So to be able to go into that really quickly, it's going to
change your body instantly and your mind.
Because when you feel your most badass or your most confident
self, you're going to walk differently, you're going to
talk differently, you're going to approach others in a whole
(07:05):
different way. So it's very much a mind body
connection. When your mind is in the right
place, the body is the robot andthe body just follows.
That becomes an anchor, doesn't it?
Because all of these things are very resourceful states.
So whatever that thing is, whether it's kind of gratitude
or accomplishment, you're kind of reactivating that.
(07:25):
So I guess in a way that's a form of self hypnosis because
you go back to those memories and you're like, wow, OK, yeah,
no, I, I can do those things. I, I am capable and and it does
change things very quickly. Most hypnotherapist tend to
gravitate towards particular niches or kind of specialist
areas. Is there a particular type of
(07:46):
client or particular type of issue that you found yourself?
Maybe not even through intention, it just happened to
be that way that you've ended upworking in in more of a niche
than you intended to. For me, I like to work with
women who I figured it out. Even though we don't want to
call ourselves. Maybe we do.
It's the millennial women. We grew up in a very different
(08:08):
era than, say, the women growingup now in the early 20s, and we
just have this different kind ofstress.
So I love working with millennial women who either have
their own businesses or want to learn how to juggle and navigate
that balance between home and work and really help them
decrease their stress and anxiety.
(08:28):
So they can be the best mom, they can be the best colleague,
they can be the best business owner that they can be.
Because ultimately we want to, we want to be able to make that
time to be able to go to our kids events and functions as
well as still have a fun living or earn, earn money in a way
that's for us too. And what are some of the major
(08:53):
issues that you would say, let'ssay, millennial women tend to
face more of than, let's say, millennial men or perhaps older
or younger generations? Interesting.
I think from what I've come across is it they always come to
me for something else, but then always become becomes down to
(09:13):
the the trust. They realize they don't trust
themselves because we've been brought up in a world where it's
like women should be should be seen and not heard or children
should be seen and not heard. You're just you're just a mom,
so you don't really matter as much or what other things.
(09:35):
I don't know. I'm actually a side note.
I'm actually writing a book and it's called run the dishwasher
twice. Shift your beliefs, mind your
mindset and live life on your terms because there's so many
beliefs have been installed in US from children, especially
women that need to be changed. And I feel like I'm one of those
(09:59):
people that want to help people change.
Like I was telling my friends about this and like some of the
different chapters that are in it and she's like, Yep, I've got
that one. Yep, I've got she's like, are
you reading my mind? I'm like, well, kind of because
we're all going through the samethings.
We just don't voice it. And so it's called run the
dishwasher twice even because the amount of times we feel like
(10:21):
everything has to be perfect andyou have to put everything in
the dishwasher the first time, it's not necessary.
Nowadays, if I have to run two or three loads of dishes, then I
run two or three loads of dishes.
But there are some people that are like, if there's dishes on
the counter, they all have to get put into the dishwasher and
get run once. So it's just shifting the
mindset in a way that we haven'tbeen taught, especially as this
(10:43):
millennial era, I would say. I guess that that metaphor has a
double meaning as well, because,you know, if you need to run it
more than once, fine, you know, you've got, you don't have to do
it all in one go. But I guess it has a different
meaning in the sense that if thefirst time you run a dishwasher
doesn't clean everything, you can just run the cycle again.
And, and therapeutically, I've certainly done that with a few
(11:05):
clients that, you know, a particular approach to deal with
an issue has made progress on the first session, but it's
actually in the second session that you really kind of find the
resolution. So it, it's quite powerful that
way. My perception is when you were
saying some of those things thatmillennial people, particularly
women face, that almost seems like an older generation thing
(11:28):
where it's kind of like very domesticated roles or identity
linked to, you know, gender stereotypes.
It's surprising for me for for to hear that millennial women
that you would imagine are much more empowered.
They grew up with, you know, theInternet and a lot of different
kind of resources that actually,let's say their grandparents
(11:51):
didn't have. And yet some of these, you know,
still very stereotypical identities and roles are still
there. Why do you think that is?
Why do you think that even with,let's say, all of the knowledge
and role models available, that millennial women still are, you
know, gravitating towards something that, you know, maybe
(12:12):
you know, more of a perceived historical issue?
Well, I think we're that generation that went so our
first emotions. I'm sure you know this, although
your listeners may or may not. Our first emotions are created
between the ages of 0 and 7. That's when our first emotions
(12:33):
were created and everything is piled on top of that.
For those millennial women, that's when it still was those
older generations installing these beliefs on us.
Yes, when we became teenagers, we started to have more of the
Internet and more of technology,and now it's like in our hands,
we can do it whenever. Although those first emotions,
those first beliefs are still from that older generation.
(12:56):
Us teaching our kids now, we have so many more opportunities
and possibilities and resources to teach this generation moving
forward. But I feel like ours is this
like generation where we're still taught all of the old
school ways. We're we're changing them.
We're the catalysts that are changing them for the futures to
(13:18):
come. That makes sense.
So it's it's kind of, I guess some within the millennials are
very empowered and very kind of,let's say in control of their
own identity. But you've got this legacy of
because how they were raised in their own wars.
It kind of echoes, which I guessleads to the idea of, and not
(13:39):
everyone believes in this. There's this idea of
generational traumas or generational, you know, kind of
issues where I certainly see it in phobia clients, where
actually a lot of people inheritthe phobia from their parents
because they, they see their parents very scared with
something and then they kind of observe and, and learn that.
Yeah. Do you, do you think that's a
valid, you know, kind of thesis,this idea that actually certain
(14:03):
conditions or compulsions or addictions actually kind of
ripple from generation to generation?
I I think that's such a great question to ask.
So unfortunately my mom passed away almost four years ago and
it was on her one year death anniversary.
My mom or not my mom, she's she was gone.
My aunt and I went out for lunchto celebrate her one year
(14:24):
anniversary and we just got talking about different things
of like how she was like I, there's a lot of things from
between my parents that were before me.
So it's like a secret that I'm never, I've never got to know
yet I never will know because itwas before my lifetime.
And there was a lot of things that I didn't know happened.
(14:46):
And on this one year lunch anniversary, my aunt was talking
to me and she was telling me a few things.
And I'm like, this makes sense as to why I do this this way is
because this happened to my mom.And I was like, no way.
Or the way I would say somethingor hold myself back in a way
(15:06):
when I really want to just step myself out in the world.
And she's like, yeah, because your mom did this or this
happened to your mom, so that makes sense why you do it this
way. And I was like, holy crap.
I never realized that her beliefs, even though she never
spoke them or gave them words, were installed in me.
(15:27):
And I'm acting in a way that I don't want to act because of
her. So I thought that that was very
fascinating. And for to be able to come to
surface and for me to be able toactually acknowledge it, see it
here at feel it. And I was like, holy crap,
that's crazy. Now that I know it's time to
change it. But yes, I can see how this
generational trauma can go through.
(15:49):
I had another client worked withyears ago and it was her grandma
who was in the Holocaust. And that was when I was talking
about when we need to learn how to trust ourselves.
She realized she didn't learn how to trust herself because her
grandma couldn't trust herself because her grandma was
literally in the Holocaust. And I'm like, this is so crazy.
So yes, generational trauma can go through the the, the
(16:14):
generational line. Although once you know about it,
that's your job to decide if youwant to change it or not, right?
It is. And I think one of the most
empowering things to do with theclient is they become the one to
break generational cycles. And I remember working with a
client, very kind of tragic story, but it was, you know,
(16:36):
basically a lot of child sexual abuse and they figured that that
had happened to their mother andhighly likely their grandmother.
And, you know, positioning that as kind of like, it stops with
you, you know, that actually, rather than these things having
to kind of ripple, you know, through further generations, you
(16:56):
know, they become the one to break the cycle.
And I think that's such an empowering role to give a client
that actually, OK, this has beenrippling over centuries, and
they get to be the one that thatstops it.
Do you believe that the message that you actually kind of give
the client the role influences them?
(17:17):
What do you think? It's all just based on
suggestion, Like what? What's the key thing that you
feel is an empowering reframe when you've got these things
that have been going on for a long time?
I think it's about giving them, putting the ball in their court,
letting them in their mind know,because ultimately we know what
(17:37):
the right, we know what right and wrong is, we know what the
right answer is. Sometimes we're just too afraid
to give it answers. And so like, I know we'll, we'll
probably talk. What I'm going to be doing for
this conference coming up is theMilton model, which is all but
hypnotic language and hypnotic patterning, conversational
hypnosis. And to be able to speak in a way
that allows the person to come up with their own answers is
(18:00):
very empowering because they already know the answer.
And that's what the catalyst change is because you now know
what's right and wrong. A decision is easy.
It says yes or a no. It's the motion, the emotional
pull behind that makes it hard. Once you take the emotion out of
it and you're like, Kay, I am doing this because it's not only
going to change my life, it's going to change my everyone in
(18:24):
the future to come. And oftentimes you're changing
when you're that catalyst, you're changing the entire
karmic line. So not only are you changing it
moving forward, you're also changing it going backward as
well. And I think that's so powerful
because you're just changing this entire energy on the in the
field of your generation. And as the therapist, you just
(18:49):
get to be that guide that helps that person decide.
I get to be the change. I get to be the the catalyst and
this is my time to shine. Yeah, I think, I think you're
right. It's it's allowing them to
discover the meaning or the decision rather than kind of
just telling them. And and I think the Milton model
(19:09):
is really good for that. It's probably worth for some of
the audience that isn't necessarily trained
hypnotherapeutically to have some context there.
So recently I did a talk about how we're in the fourth golden
age of hypnosis. And I talked about the third
golden age was really with, you know, Milton Ericsson as the as
the kind of the flag bearer of that.
(19:29):
But the Milton model really camefrom NLP in kind of studying the
structure of Milton Ericsson's language.
Tell us a bit about where it allcame from, and for those that
aren't familiar with the Milton model, what it is.
So the Milton model came from NLP, as you just said, the two
Co creators of NLP, Richard Bandler and John Grinder, which
(19:50):
I think it's super cool that Richard Bandler is going to be
at this conference in a couple weeks.
They did a lot of studying on different models of excellence.
They looked at things very specific.
They went into the which they created the meta model from
Virginia Sitir whole different story.
And then they also went very vague, what can we do with Zag?
And they followed Milton Erickson and created the Milton,
(20:11):
the Milton model, hence the nameMilton because it came from
Milton Erickson. And they created, they came up
with these 19 different patternsand they're vague enough that
they're going to create agreement within the mind, but
they're not too vague where theyget lost.
And so there's these different patterns that one can use as
(20:34):
conversational hypnotic, as conversationally or in a
therapeutic setting that just allows the unconscious mind and
the conscious mind to come up with an agreement to be able to
do what they want to do. So for instance, the one of my
favorite ones that I have to is A tag question.
(20:54):
So A tag question is just a question that you add to the end
of a statement. And it just allows your mind to
go off and wander and decide, doyou want to do this thing or
not? So for instance, if I saw my
kids, I'm like, OK, boys, you can clean your room.
And they're like, yeah, I can clean it.
And if I say you can clean your room, can you not?
And they're like, well, yeah, I can.
I just don't want to right now. So it's giving them more of a
(21:16):
choice in their mind as to the answer they're they're looking
for or or what I'm looking for from them.
Yeah, it it loops back and I think, you know, the one I use a
lot is, is it not? Is it not You kind of give them
a new belief that's true, is it not?
And then it gets them kind of going back to the very normal
(21:37):
pathway that you can kind of update.
And what I like about Milton Erickson is that he was the
master of metaphor. And I love analogies and
metaphors, and people regularly listening to the show will know
just how many metaphors that I Iuse.
Oh yes, and you're very good at them too.
Thank you. But what I, what I love about
metaphor is that you don't have to know the reality of the
(21:58):
client. It just has to represent.
And there's a great phrase in NLP, the map is not the
territory. So it gives them this way of
kind of having a structure to kind of make changes within the
model of the metaphor that doesn't have to be their
reality. And, and I, and I did a recent
one with a, a lady that was giving up alcohol and it was
(22:22):
framing all of the things that could be relapse triggers as
snakes on the snakes and ladder board.
And it was just really profound for her because it gave her this
feeling of, well, I know where they are now, so I'm not going
to tread on them again because that that puts me back and I
know where the ladders are. So I can kind of make the
progress and snakes and ladders is quite a good metaphor for
that. But I don't have to know all of
(22:43):
the specific details of this client's life.
It's just she will know what thesnakes are.
And I think Milton Erickson was very good at also using things
like double meanings and those phonological ambiguities and was
almost slice of mouth where it would be an, an embedded
command, you know, tucked into aphrase.
(23:05):
And, and the client has no idea that this stuff is, is
happening. So you obviously like tag
questions. What are some of the other
language patterns of Milton Erickson that you really like?
Another one is the fun one. I forget what it's called right
off the top of my head, but whatis it called anyway?
(23:28):
It's the one where I'll just like give you an example.
So I had a friend whose brother's uncle's nephew did
something just like this and wasable to get a result from it as
well. So what you're doing there is
you're disassociating the personfrom the event so many times
that they're trying to figure out, wait, who was it?
(23:50):
But then when you give the end, the statement, the command of
what you want to happen, they just go for that cause your mind
gets all mumbled, jumbled and they're like Oh well this person
did it and they got this result so I can get it too.
Yeah, it's levels of disassociation.
And it's the same logic that makes nested loops work because
when you're so far away from like the present, you're more
(24:11):
receptive to, to their suggestion and and pickpockets
use this as well. They want to kind of overwhelm
them with confusions. Then they can be, you know,
manipulated in in that way. Although this is not that.
It's definitely not that, but it, but it is, it is that
ability to kind of, I think a lot of people when they think
(24:31):
about hypnotherapy, they're like, I can't be hypnotized and,
and their defenses are, are up and, and lots of the Milton
model is hypnosis without it feeling like hypnosis.
So that, you know, the Scooby-doo villain archetype
where it's kind of like you are under my control.
You know, a lot of that doesn't work with a lot of people
because they're like, they just don't know I'm in control of my
(24:52):
life. But the Milton style of
language, you're opening up possibilities and ideas
indirectly. It's very kind of covert.
And, and when you use an example, you know, of, well,
there's this person I know and they did this.
And I love using anecdotes in my, in my client sessions
because they map that strategy across to them without them even
(25:16):
realising that there's a suggestion they're like, well,
the hypnosis hasn't started yet,but it's all, it's all there to
begin with. And what, what would you say is
the, the difficulty for whether it's a hypnotherapist or just
one curious about hypnosis learning the the Milton model
and, and some of those techniques.
The difficulty in it. What's the challenge?
(25:39):
Because I think with the meta model, what I found with the
meta model. Is.
Yeah, if for the meta model, forexample, because it's about
precise language, one of the challenging elements of that is
that you can be annoying if you,if you follow the meta model.
And then when someone uses some kind of vague language, you
know, like, well, you know, everybody knows that you're like
(26:01):
everybody, every single person. Like it can, it can become
annoying to kind of hone in. Do you think there's any
difficulties with people either learning the Milton model or
implementing the the Milton model?
I don't think so. I and maybe it's just because I
love it. It's such a powerful tool that I
just learned. So it just came so naturally to
(26:23):
me that my my friends are alwayslike Rebecca, you can Milton
anybody through the floor with the things that you say because
it just becomes part of my it's like learning another language.
So it's like learning French or Spanish or Italian.
You learn Milton and it just becomes part of who you are.
Like it's not difficult to do, say, when another one is pacing
the current experience. So as you're sitting there
(26:45):
listening to me, you're nodding your head and you're really
understanding what's what's going, what's coming out of my
mouth. That's a simple pattern.
There's nothing difficult about that.
Like if you're finding this difficult, you can literally
just say what the person is doing in front of you and you're
able to build that rapport instantly.
(27:05):
Because ultimately that's what it's really about.
It's about building rapport and really getting in tune with
whoever's in front of you so youcan guide them in a way that's
going to help serve them the best.
So I really don't think there's much difficulty unless you
choose to make it difficult. I, I think it, it can feel
overwhelming because I've got toremember all these these tag tag
(27:27):
responses. I've got to remember all these
metaphors. I've got to have all these kind
of double meanings. I've got to have this kind of
embedded commands stated within a, a quote.
It can feel overwhelming, but I think it's like anything, if you
just practice one or two of these things, particularly if
you're a therapist, like get that in a session, you know,
that kind of that approach workseffectively.
You're turning it into that, that competency by doing it,
(27:51):
having the experience of of doing that.
One of the things I found fascinating about Milton
Ericsson is the creativity in the homework that he would set
his clients and he would give them homework that kind of
mimicked the very situation thatthey're in.
And then actually their homeworkbecomes a pattern interrupt.
(28:12):
It becomes a way of them changing their their kind of
belief systems. You tend to do things like that
with your clients. You give them kind of homework
or challenges to do. Always, always.
I love giving action steps because you can learn it, but
you're not really going to learnit until you do it.
You need to build that neurology.
So like you're saying, yes, it'sif you there's 19 patterns.
(28:35):
I could not and did not learn all 19 patterns at the same
time. I'm more comfortable doing like
less of them. So it's not about being
overwhelmed by them is even in my my presentation I'm doing I'm
only teaching 3 because if you were to teach all 19, you'll be
overloaded. So when it comes to homework for
(28:55):
my clients, it's I usually give them about three things.
And honestly one of the things is just to write down 5 things
that you're grateful for every single day.
It's a very simple task and it'sa huge pattern interrupt because
the amount of times people thinkabout all the things they've
done wrong, all the things that didn't go well for them that day
(29:18):
or all the things they didn't get to, it's like, well, instead
of doing that, let's look at what we did do.
Let's look at what went right. Let's look at all the things
that were a plus in your life. Who did you connect with that
you want to have or finding the good things.
And it's a simple thing, but it makes such a big difference and
it's such a big pattern interrupt because now you're
looking for the positives of your life and when what you
(29:41):
focus on expands. So when you start looking for
more positive things, more positive things show up.
Yeah, you're, you're priming and, and kind of exercising that
muscle to notice what's working.Well, people that are depressed
or highly anxious, highly anxious looking all the things
that could go wrong in the future and depressed, you know,
there's no hope. It's like, but that won't that
(30:03):
won't work. Everything is, is very negative.
So it does train those neural pathways.
My, my, I think most creative one that worked really well,
There was a client that I was working with that was
overweight. And the reason why she was
overweight is that she'd be working very long hours, come
back from work and she would have that in a dialogue of I
(30:23):
don't have time to cook something.
There's all these take away restaurants.
She'll just get something convenient and then she'd eat
the take away food. But quite often this take away
food is thousands of calories. So it was so I said, right, you
know, at the end of the first session I said, right, your
homework is to eat take away food every single night this
week. And I saw this really confused
(30:44):
face and she's like, you're meant to be helping me lose
weight, not gaining weight. And I said, look, there is a
caveat here. And I said, do you have a full
length mirror in your home? And she said, yes.
I said every time you get that take away I want you to get
ready to eat it in front of the full length mirror naked and
look at the parts of your body that you feel aren't the shape
(31:06):
that you want. And I said try your hardest to
enjoy that take away while looking at the the the shape of
your body that has been caused by this take away.
Anyway I got a message like 3 or4 days into their homework and
she's like I can't even look at the take away anymore.
That's a good one. What most people disassociate
from the consequence. Most smokers will see the
(31:29):
picture of lung cancer on the packet and and they say, oh, it
won't happen to me. But when you collide the
behavior with the consequence, it could be a real patent
interrupt because they've tried telling themselves, no, I'm not
going to have this today, but they've got that pattern
running. And when you collide the the
consequence with the action in that moment, suddenly it doesn't
become very desirable anymore. So you know that those kind of
(31:52):
Milton Erickson style homework, I think is is really fun.
Of course you're you're going tobe talking about the Milton
language patterns in the Mid America conference.
And you're quite right. Richard Bandler along with John
Grin and actually kind of built the Milton model is going to be
there. Are you hoping that he pops into
your your kind of talk to to kind of almost kind of grade
(32:16):
like how accurate you're doing it is?
Is that exciting for you or daunting for you or, or what do
you think? Well, I felt like I'm like I
have big shoes to fill here because he was the creator of
it. Although I'm speaking on the
Friday and I don't think he's showing up till the Sunday till
the day that he actually present.
So I have nothing to worry about, just to have that energy
of him being there. And, and I chose this topic
(32:40):
before I even knew that he was coming.
So I was like, Oh, this is just kind of cool.
And I could have looked at like,Oh my God, this is like
intimidating because like I'm doing something that that
imposter syndrome could have totally crept in to be like, I'm
doing something that he created.Instead though, I'm like, I'm
actually really excited because everyone's going to be here
(33:00):
learning and then learning from him on the Sunday where I get to
give him a little bit of a teaser on the Friday as to
something he created. So I just flipped it for myself
and I'm because I'm not thinkingof myself.
I'm thinking of my audience and who I'm going to be helping with
this and how fun and how powerful of a technique it is
(33:22):
that I'm actually excited for it.
No, I think that's the most that's the best way to to be in.
And I think Richard Bandler probably is my biggest influence
is why I'm a hypnotherapist. All of his early work, you know,
structure of magic, frogs into Princess, you know, but
particularly the stuff that was all about his transcripts of
(33:42):
what he actually did. So there's Using a Brain for a
Change by Connie Ray Andreas that kind of mapped out some of
his techniques and magic in action.
Big, big influence on me and. Are these all books?
Like should I be taking notes here?
Yeah, these are some of the the the OG books on on this area.
I know the frog and the Princess, but a couple of the
other ones I haven't heard of soI'll have to.
(34:03):
Yeah, Structure of Magic was I think a lot about the, the, the
meta model. I think Structure of Magic Part
2 was the Milton model and it was kind of that was the
original kind of place where it it and then you have
transformations, which again is around the same time of frogs
into Princess. But you know, sometimes I do
talks at these conferences aboutnested loops.
And I would say Richard Bandler is for for me, he's the GOAT of
(34:26):
nested loops. Like he's so good at kind of
weaving stories within stories. So I think I would probably have
a little bit of imposter syndrome if I was doing a talk
on nested loops and then RichardBandler comes in, But I think I
think I'd have fun with it. So give us a little bit of,
because I know you're very awareof the kind of stuff going on at
the the Mid America conference. Let us know a little bit about
(34:47):
what's happening there that people can expect if they do
come, but also a bit about you and if people want to learn more
about you, where they can find more information.
OK, so they can they can go to I'm Rebecca Wagner coaching on
all the socials as well as Rebecca wagnercoaching.com for
my website. That's pretty simple and easy.
I like to help women decrease stress and anxiety so they can
(35:10):
live their best life with inner peace, common joy.
So if anybody's looking for waysto decrease stress from a a
different perspective, then I I'd love to have a conversation
with you. When it comes to the conference,
there are so many cool things that are happening at this
conference and I went to it lastyear for the first time and this
(35:30):
year apparently it's going to bevery different.
So my only conference was beforethis was hypnothoughts live in
Vegas, which is like 600 plus people.
And then last year there was only about 100 people at this
conference. Like wow, it was very different.
So I had to like change my expectations because I had no
idea what to expect where it waslike a lot of people and then
(35:50):
this one is just like a few people, but you can have deeper
conversations. So this year I think that the
top line is 400. I think we're at three 5400.
So you're going to be able to, it's going to be like one of
those mid ones where it's like you can meet a lot of people,
but you can also have deeper conversations and there's lots
of different ways that you can do that.
(36:11):
We're doing they're going to be doing swag bags.
So I like giving gifts for everybody who comes.
I don't know how many bags they have or how it's going to work.
They are. So I'm also part of Rich Guzzi,
who's Rich and Joe who are running it.
I'm part of their elite program.So I've got a little more
insight than some. Obviously, I'm not going to say
(36:31):
what what the public doesn't already know.
Although we do know that on the Friday we're doing the Family
Feud kind of games, which is like so much fun.
And last year it got a little off topic, which is fun because
it just makes it for good laughs.
And for fun. We have, he's actually doing a
VIP room this year, which is really cool.
(36:53):
So there's going to be an extra room that you can, if you've
paid extra for the VIP, you get to go.
I don't know exactly how it's going to work, but it's going to
be a separate suite that it's going to be.
Whoever has VIP can go chat, chat with the other VIPs in a
different setting. Not really sure how it's
working. I just know there's a VIP room.
We're going to have lunch each day.
(37:13):
There's like a buffet lunch thatyou can pay.
It's only like $20 a day. And it's great because
everyone's going to be in the same room and you can have
lunch. And then we can just go on to
the next presentation after that, no one has to leave the
conference room, which is great.Then there's going to be the
gala on the Saturday. So he wants it like red carpet
(37:34):
style. I'm like, rich.
So like, what am I supposed to wear?
He's like, wear the nicest thing.
Yeah. I'm like, OK, so I'm like how
like formal do we go here? So I'm going like semi kind of
formal 'cause I'm just like, well I'm going to dress, dress
up like the way I would like to.Cause like last year people
showed up in jeans. Like no, no, I don't want
anybody in jeans. OK, perfect.
(37:56):
So that'll be fine 'cause then he also does his show and then
there's going to be awards given.
Don't know how the awards work, but awards are given.
And then it's fun dancing the rest of the night away.
Then the Sunday he's doing Richard Banler is the and Chase
Hughes are the keynotes of the afternoon and then he's going to
do a pool party on the Sunday night.
(38:18):
And then on Monday there's a post conference of Richard
Banler speak present presenting all day.
And then I think Tuesday is Chase Hughes.
And then on the front and back end there's also pre and post
conferences of a few other people.
You'd have to go to the website,which is what is it,
hypnosisconference.org. Org yeah, I think that's the so
(38:40):
so check that out. And do you have anything that
cause normally how we end is either an experience you could
take us through like some kind of guided hypnosis, or if
there's something that people can kind of download or, or get
like tell us what they can expect.
I can give the a download of a, it's just a general decrease
(39:04):
stress relaxation hypnosis. I can put that in, I'll give it
to you and you can put it in theshow notes.
And it's just a great way to help decrease stress in a way
that is quick and easy. And then that can also lead to
the stress reset, which is a three day e-mail sequence where
each day you get literally a 2 minute stress release, hypnosis,
(39:29):
literally 2 minutes because that's all it takes to reset
your body. So you got one day, one day 2
and day three. And it's a, and it just changes
the way that you're going to have an outlook on the rest of
your day. So I can also give you the the
link for that and just a great way to help decrease stress in a
easy, fast and fun way. Perfect.
(39:50):
So if you're feeling stressed right now, check the link in the
description, you'll get that download and and also you can
get those kind of tips on e-mailas well.
And before we let you go, is there anything else that you
wanted to kind of share with theaudience?
I just I had a great time so thank you for having me.
It was so much fun talking aboutthings that are near and dear to
(40:12):
my heart and how we can really make a change on the world and
on the future generations just by knowing who we are.
That we can be the catalyst and we no longer have to hold on to
those old stories that have comefrom people from our past.
Fantastic, and all the links to the relevant websites for
Rebecca will also be in the description as well, so check
(40:35):
those out. Rebecca, thank you so much for
joining me on The Hypnotist. Thank you.
Thank you so much for joining meon today's episode of The
Hypnotist, and if you've enjoyedtoday's episode, I would
encourage you, if you haven't already, to hit the subscribe
button or follow button to make sure that you're automatically
(40:57):
notified of any future episodes that I release.
Also, by doing that, it lets thealgorithm know that you like
this show, and that will put it in front of even more people
that might not know that this show exists.
So that would be helpful for me.And if you like the stuff that I
do, take a moment just to have alook in the show notes or the
(41:20):
description because there's lotsof free things that I have to
offer, including free hypnosis downloads without the intro or
the outro like I'm doing now. So thank you again for joining
me on today's episode, and I'll see you again soon for the next
one.
Welcome to The Hypnotist, the show that gives you inside
access to cutting edge hypnosis with real clients facing genuine
issues. Brought to you by the
Hypnotherapist, demanded by celebrities, CEOs and even
royalty. Adam Cox.
These recordings took place livefrom Adam Smith in London's
world famous Harley Street. So get yourself comfortable and
(00:31):
enjoy today's episode of The Hypnotist.
Welcome to the hypnotist. My name is Adam Cox and today
I'm not your hypnotist. We have a guest hypnotist and
that is Rebecca Wechner. Welcome to the show, Rebecca.
Thank you, Adam. Great to have you.
(00:52):
Here. Great to have you here.
So one of the things I'm always curious about when I'm meeting a
hypnotherapist is how they actually became a
hypnotherapist. For you, what was the catalyst?
What was the key thing that madeyou curious about the world of
hypnotherapy and then actually to become a therapist?
So mine is twofold. My background for the last 15
(01:15):
years I've been a massage therapist and the amount of
people that I've helped in the massage room has been crazy.
And over the years would be people would be like, I would
work on a muscle and they'd be like, I don't even know why I
told you that story. I've never even told my wife
that or they'd leave. They'd be like, that was the
best massage ever. What did you do?
And I'm like, I literally did nothing different.
(01:37):
And I realized that when I'm working on the muscle, they
would be telling the story and then it would release twofold
from the muscle and then also from their mind too.
So I was like, it has to be mental.
And at the same time, I was going through a big life change
where I had already, I was turning 30 and I'd already done
(01:58):
all the things. I already started a career, had
kids, got married, got a house, did all the things I was
supposed to do. And I was coming to this point.
I'm like, who am I? Who am I moving forward?
And I knew I had to dive deeper in inside of myself as well.
And so I started on this journeylooking for something in the
mind work. And I knew I always loved
(02:20):
energy. I always knew that somehow I
would get involved in the energyworld, just didn't know how.
And then I was talking to a colleague of mine.
I'm like, I found this thing called NLP and hypnosis.
I'm like, I'm not sure if it's for me or not.
And she looks at me, she touchedme on the shoulder and she's
like, no, Rebecca, that is exactly what you need.
That's not only going to help change your life, it's going to
(02:41):
help everybody you work with moving forward.
I'm like, OK, so I looked into it and it was a Thursday.
I remember and I had called this, this training company that
was really local to me. I'm like, oh, bonus.
And I was signed up and ready totake the practitioner training
within the next week. And it just went, I've just gone
(03:01):
downhill from there in the most amazing way because I've helped
so many people in so many different ways change their
mindset, their lives, as well asmy own as well.
Do you think your background in actually working with the
physical body gives you a different perspective?
Because there is a great deal ofbelief, whether it's through NLP
in terms of kinesthetics and modalities, or this idea that
(03:25):
emotions are stored actually in the body.
Do you have a different perspective on that because of
your background? I 100% believe that emotions are
stored in the body because it would be funny and I've done a
lot of extra learning. I know Louise Hay talks about it
in her book, You Can Heal Your Life.
You've also got the new Germanicmedicine, I think it's called,
(03:48):
where it talks about how all of our body parts mean something
differently. And so when it comes to say low
back pain, oftentimes low back, and it's very universal, has to
do with financial issues. So you may have a lot of money,
you may have no money. You're just stressing about
money. It shows up in the back and with
massage. When I would talk to somebody
about just finances in general, they're like, what did you do?
(04:11):
Because my back pains decrease or has gone away.
I'm like, we just brought it to surface.
So one hundred, 100%. I fully believe that the
emotions are totally connected to the body and the mind.
And with things, let's say the the two dominant emotions that
kind of affect most people in a negative way, it's probably like
(04:32):
stress and anxiety. How does stress kind of manifest
in the body compared to let's say someone very anxious all the
time? OK, so stress is, I'm going to
say in this way, stress and anxiety.
Stress is thinking about things of the past, things that have
already happened. When you carry a lot of stress
in your shoulders, you're literally carrying the weight of
(04:53):
the world on your shoulders. And stress and energy has weight
to it. So it shows up in the shoulders.
Let's just say anxiety is fear of the unknown of the future.
Anxiety is always thinking aboutwhat could go wrong in the
future, even though it hasn't happened.
And our minds, as you know, don't know what's real and
what's not real. And so when you start to think
(05:15):
of these thoughts that haven't happened yet, it shows up in the
body. So that's how that's how I look
at it. And that's how they're really
connected to the stress and anxiety.
Yeah, and I remember a study years ago about for people with
long term depression, they gave them a toothbrush to put in
between their teeth and look at the mirror for 5 minutes a day,
(05:37):
and because it mimicked the samemuscles as a smile, they
actually kind of felt better. Do you find that works the same
way that if someone is carrying,let's say, a lot of tension, a
lot of stress, a lot of anxiety and that gets released
physically, then their mood changes?
And then vice versa if you work with someone
hypnotherapeutically, not with nothing to do with the body and
(06:00):
then the body changes it. Is it like a two way street from
your experience? I would say yes, and that sounds
like a super cool study. I've never heard of that one
with the toothbrush, but it makes sense.
I was taught working with somebody a couple weeks ago and
it was something simple in the hypnosis.
It was a hypnosis session and wewere talking about let's create
(06:21):
what we were calling the badass list.
And the badass list is all the things you've done in your life
that are friggin awesome to be able to come back to those
emotions right then and there onthe spot.
And if you're feeling down, thenyou can go back to your badass
list and it could be whatever itis for you.
Maybe you got that perfect job. Maybe you had a bought a house.
(06:42):
Maybe you, it was your life goalto get married, write a book,
whatever it was, you know what those feelings are.
So to be able to go into that really quickly, it's going to
change your body instantly and your mind.
Because when you feel your most badass or your most confident
self, you're going to walk differently, you're going to
talk differently, you're going to approach others in a whole
(07:05):
different way. So it's very much a mind body
connection. When your mind is in the right
place, the body is the robot andthe body just follows.
That becomes an anchor, doesn't it?
Because all of these things are very resourceful states.
So whatever that thing is, whether it's kind of gratitude
or accomplishment, you're kind of reactivating that.
(07:25):
So I guess in a way that's a form of self hypnosis because
you go back to those memories and you're like, wow, OK, yeah,
no, I, I can do those things. I, I am capable and and it does
change things very quickly. Most hypnotherapist tend to
gravitate towards particular niches or kind of specialist
areas. Is there a particular type of
(07:46):
client or particular type of issue that you found yourself?
Maybe not even through intention, it just happened to
be that way that you've ended upworking in in more of a niche
than you intended to. For me, I like to work with
women who I figured it out. Even though we don't want to
call ourselves. Maybe we do.
It's the millennial women. We grew up in a very different
(08:08):
era than, say, the women growingup now in the early 20s, and we
just have this different kind ofstress.
So I love working with millennial women who either have
their own businesses or want to learn how to juggle and navigate
that balance between home and work and really help them
decrease their stress and anxiety.
(08:28):
So they can be the best mom, they can be the best colleague,
they can be the best business owner that they can be.
Because ultimately we want to, we want to be able to make that
time to be able to go to our kids events and functions as
well as still have a fun living or earn, earn money in a way
that's for us too. And what are some of the major
(08:53):
issues that you would say, let'ssay, millennial women tend to
face more of than, let's say, millennial men or perhaps older
or younger generations? Interesting.
I think from what I've come across is it they always come to
me for something else, but then always become becomes down to
(09:13):
the the trust. They realize they don't trust
themselves because we've been brought up in a world where it's
like women should be should be seen and not heard or children
should be seen and not heard. You're just you're just a mom,
so you don't really matter as much or what other things.
(09:35):
I don't know. I'm actually a side note.
I'm actually writing a book and it's called run the dishwasher
twice. Shift your beliefs, mind your
mindset and live life on your terms because there's so many
beliefs have been installed in US from children, especially
women that need to be changed. And I feel like I'm one of those
(09:59):
people that want to help people change.
Like I was telling my friends about this and like some of the
different chapters that are in it and she's like, Yep, I've got
that one. Yep, I've got she's like, are
you reading my mind? I'm like, well, kind of because
we're all going through the samethings.
We just don't voice it. And so it's called run the
dishwasher twice even because the amount of times we feel like
(10:21):
everything has to be perfect andyou have to put everything in
the dishwasher the first time, it's not necessary.
Nowadays, if I have to run two or three loads of dishes, then I
run two or three loads of dishes.
But there are some people that are like, if there's dishes on
the counter, they all have to get put into the dishwasher and
get run once. So it's just shifting the
mindset in a way that we haven'tbeen taught, especially as this
(10:43):
millennial era, I would say. I guess that that metaphor has a
double meaning as well, because,you know, if you need to run it
more than once, fine, you know, you've got, you don't have to do
it all in one go. But I guess it has a different
meaning in the sense that if thefirst time you run a dishwasher
doesn't clean everything, you can just run the cycle again.
And, and therapeutically, I've certainly done that with a few
(11:05):
clients that, you know, a particular approach to deal with
an issue has made progress on the first session, but it's
actually in the second session that you really kind of find the
resolution. So it, it's quite powerful that
way. My perception is when you were
saying some of those things thatmillennial people, particularly
women face, that almost seems like an older generation thing
(11:28):
where it's kind of like very domesticated roles or identity
linked to, you know, gender stereotypes.
It's surprising for me for for to hear that millennial women
that you would imagine are much more empowered.
They grew up with, you know, theInternet and a lot of different
kind of resources that actually,let's say their grandparents
(11:51):
didn't have. And yet some of these, you know,
still very stereotypical identities and roles are still
there. Why do you think that is?
Why do you think that even with,let's say, all of the knowledge
and role models available, that millennial women still are, you
know, gravitating towards something that, you know, maybe
(12:12):
you know, more of a perceived historical issue?
Well, I think we're that generation that went so our
first emotions. I'm sure you know this, although
your listeners may or may not. Our first emotions are created
between the ages of 0 and 7. That's when our first emotions
(12:33):
were created and everything is piled on top of that.
For those millennial women, that's when it still was those
older generations installing these beliefs on us.
Yes, when we became teenagers, we started to have more of the
Internet and more of technology,and now it's like in our hands,
we can do it whenever. Although those first emotions,
those first beliefs are still from that older generation.
(12:56):
Us teaching our kids now, we have so many more opportunities
and possibilities and resources to teach this generation moving
forward. But I feel like ours is this
like generation where we're still taught all of the old
school ways. We're we're changing them.
We're the catalysts that are changing them for the futures to
(13:18):
come. That makes sense.
So it's it's kind of, I guess some within the millennials are
very empowered and very kind of,let's say in control of their
own identity. But you've got this legacy of
because how they were raised in their own wars.
It kind of echoes, which I guessleads to the idea of, and not
(13:39):
everyone believes in this. There's this idea of
generational traumas or generational, you know, kind of
issues where I certainly see it in phobia clients, where
actually a lot of people inheritthe phobia from their parents
because they, they see their parents very scared with
something and then they kind of observe and, and learn that.
Yeah. Do you, do you think that's a
valid, you know, kind of thesis,this idea that actually certain
(14:03):
conditions or compulsions or addictions actually kind of
ripple from generation to generation?
I I think that's such a great question to ask.
So unfortunately my mom passed away almost four years ago and
it was on her one year death anniversary.
My mom or not my mom, she's she was gone.
My aunt and I went out for lunchto celebrate her one year
(14:24):
anniversary and we just got talking about different things
of like how she was like I, there's a lot of things from
between my parents that were before me.
So it's like a secret that I'm never, I've never got to know
yet I never will know because itwas before my lifetime.
And there was a lot of things that I didn't know happened.
(14:46):
And on this one year lunch anniversary, my aunt was talking
to me and she was telling me a few things.
And I'm like, this makes sense as to why I do this this way is
because this happened to my mom.And I was like, no way.
Or the way I would say somethingor hold myself back in a way
(15:06):
when I really want to just step myself out in the world.
And she's like, yeah, because your mom did this or this
happened to your mom, so that makes sense why you do it this
way. And I was like, holy crap.
I never realized that her beliefs, even though she never
spoke them or gave them words, were installed in me.
(15:27):
And I'm acting in a way that I don't want to act because of
her. So I thought that that was very
fascinating. And for to be able to come to
surface and for me to be able toactually acknowledge it, see it
here at feel it. And I was like, holy crap,
that's crazy. Now that I know it's time to
change it. But yes, I can see how this
generational trauma can go through.
(15:49):
I had another client worked withyears ago and it was her grandma
who was in the Holocaust. And that was when I was talking
about when we need to learn how to trust ourselves.
She realized she didn't learn how to trust herself because her
grandma couldn't trust herself because her grandma was
literally in the Holocaust. And I'm like, this is so crazy.
So yes, generational trauma can go through the the, the
(16:14):
generational line. Although once you know about it,
that's your job to decide if youwant to change it or not, right?
It is. And I think one of the most
empowering things to do with theclient is they become the one to
break generational cycles. And I remember working with a
client, very kind of tragic story, but it was, you know,
(16:36):
basically a lot of child sexual abuse and they figured that that
had happened to their mother andhighly likely their grandmother.
And, you know, positioning that as kind of like, it stops with
you, you know, that actually, rather than these things having
to kind of ripple, you know, through further generations, you
(16:56):
know, they become the one to break the cycle.
And I think that's such an empowering role to give a client
that actually, OK, this has beenrippling over centuries, and
they get to be the one that thatstops it.
Do you believe that the message that you actually kind of give
the client the role influences them?
(17:17):
What do you think? It's all just based on
suggestion, Like what? What's the key thing that you
feel is an empowering reframe when you've got these things
that have been going on for a long time?
I think it's about giving them, putting the ball in their court,
letting them in their mind know,because ultimately we know what
(17:37):
the right, we know what right and wrong is, we know what the
right answer is. Sometimes we're just too afraid
to give it answers. And so like, I know we'll, we'll
probably talk. What I'm going to be doing for
this conference coming up is theMilton model, which is all but
hypnotic language and hypnotic patterning, conversational
hypnosis. And to be able to speak in a way
that allows the person to come up with their own answers is
(18:00):
very empowering because they already know the answer.
And that's what the catalyst change is because you now know
what's right and wrong. A decision is easy.
It says yes or a no. It's the motion, the emotional
pull behind that makes it hard. Once you take the emotion out of
it and you're like, Kay, I am doing this because it's not only
going to change my life, it's going to change my everyone in
(18:24):
the future to come. And oftentimes you're changing
when you're that catalyst, you're changing the entire
karmic line. So not only are you changing it
moving forward, you're also changing it going backward as
well. And I think that's so powerful
because you're just changing this entire energy on the in the
field of your generation. And as the therapist, you just
(18:49):
get to be that guide that helps that person decide.
I get to be the change. I get to be the the catalyst and
this is my time to shine. Yeah, I think, I think you're
right. It's it's allowing them to
discover the meaning or the decision rather than kind of
just telling them. And and I think the Milton model
(19:09):
is really good for that. It's probably worth for some of
the audience that isn't necessarily trained
hypnotherapeutically to have some context there.
So recently I did a talk about how we're in the fourth golden
age of hypnosis. And I talked about the third
golden age was really with, you know, Milton Ericsson as the as
the kind of the flag bearer of that.
(19:29):
But the Milton model really camefrom NLP in kind of studying the
structure of Milton Ericsson's language.
Tell us a bit about where it allcame from, and for those that
aren't familiar with the Milton model, what it is.
So the Milton model came from NLP, as you just said, the two
Co creators of NLP, Richard Bandler and John Grinder, which
(19:50):
I think it's super cool that Richard Bandler is going to be
at this conference in a couple weeks.
They did a lot of studying on different models of excellence.
They looked at things very specific.
They went into the which they created the meta model from
Virginia Sitir whole different story.
And then they also went very vague, what can we do with Zag?
And they followed Milton Erickson and created the Milton,
(20:11):
the Milton model, hence the nameMilton because it came from
Milton Erickson. And they created, they came up
with these 19 different patternsand they're vague enough that
they're going to create agreement within the mind, but
they're not too vague where theyget lost.
And so there's these different patterns that one can use as
(20:34):
conversational hypnotic, as conversationally or in a
therapeutic setting that just allows the unconscious mind and
the conscious mind to come up with an agreement to be able to
do what they want to do. So for instance, the one of my
favorite ones that I have to is A tag question.
(20:54):
So A tag question is just a question that you add to the end
of a statement. And it just allows your mind to
go off and wander and decide, doyou want to do this thing or
not? So for instance, if I saw my
kids, I'm like, OK, boys, you can clean your room.
And they're like, yeah, I can clean it.
And if I say you can clean your room, can you not?
And they're like, well, yeah, I can.
I just don't want to right now. So it's giving them more of a
(21:16):
choice in their mind as to the answer they're they're looking
for or or what I'm looking for from them.
Yeah, it it loops back and I think, you know, the one I use a
lot is, is it not? Is it not You kind of give them
a new belief that's true, is it not?
And then it gets them kind of going back to the very normal
(21:37):
pathway that you can kind of update.
And what I like about Milton Erickson is that he was the
master of metaphor. And I love analogies and
metaphors, and people regularly listening to the show will know
just how many metaphors that I Iuse.
Oh yes, and you're very good at them too.
Thank you. But what I, what I love about
metaphor is that you don't have to know the reality of the
(21:58):
client. It just has to represent.
And there's a great phrase in NLP, the map is not the
territory. So it gives them this way of
kind of having a structure to kind of make changes within the
model of the metaphor that doesn't have to be their
reality. And, and I, and I did a recent
one with a, a lady that was giving up alcohol and it was
(22:22):
framing all of the things that could be relapse triggers as
snakes on the snakes and ladder board.
And it was just really profound for her because it gave her this
feeling of, well, I know where they are now, so I'm not going
to tread on them again because that that puts me back and I
know where the ladders are. So I can kind of make the
progress and snakes and ladders is quite a good metaphor for
that. But I don't have to know all of
(22:43):
the specific details of this client's life.
It's just she will know what thesnakes are.
And I think Milton Erickson was very good at also using things
like double meanings and those phonological ambiguities and was
almost slice of mouth where it would be an, an embedded
command, you know, tucked into aphrase.
(23:05):
And, and the client has no idea that this stuff is, is
happening. So you obviously like tag
questions. What are some of the other
language patterns of Milton Erickson that you really like?
Another one is the fun one. I forget what it's called right
off the top of my head, but whatis it called anyway?
(23:28):
It's the one where I'll just like give you an example.
So I had a friend whose brother's uncle's nephew did
something just like this and wasable to get a result from it as
well. So what you're doing there is
you're disassociating the personfrom the event so many times
that they're trying to figure out, wait, who was it?
(23:50):
But then when you give the end, the statement, the command of
what you want to happen, they just go for that cause your mind
gets all mumbled, jumbled and they're like Oh well this person
did it and they got this result so I can get it too.
Yeah, it's levels of disassociation.
And it's the same logic that makes nested loops work because
when you're so far away from like the present, you're more
(24:11):
receptive to, to their suggestion and and pickpockets
use this as well. They want to kind of overwhelm
them with confusions. Then they can be, you know,
manipulated in in that way. Although this is not that.
It's definitely not that, but it, but it is, it is that
ability to kind of, I think a lot of people when they think
(24:31):
about hypnotherapy, they're like, I can't be hypnotized and,
and their defenses are, are up and, and lots of the Milton
model is hypnosis without it feeling like hypnosis.
So that, you know, the Scooby-doo villain archetype
where it's kind of like you are under my control.
You know, a lot of that doesn't work with a lot of people
because they're like, they just don't know I'm in control of my
(24:52):
life. But the Milton style of
language, you're opening up possibilities and ideas
indirectly. It's very kind of covert.
And, and when you use an example, you know, of, well,
there's this person I know and they did this.
And I love using anecdotes in my, in my client sessions
because they map that strategy across to them without them even
(25:16):
realising that there's a suggestion they're like, well,
the hypnosis hasn't started yet,but it's all, it's all there to
begin with. And what, what would you say is
the, the difficulty for whether it's a hypnotherapist or just
one curious about hypnosis learning the the Milton model
and, and some of those techniques.
The difficulty in it. What's the challenge?
(25:39):
Because I think with the meta model, what I found with the
meta model. Is.
Yeah, if for the meta model, forexample, because it's about
precise language, one of the challenging elements of that is
that you can be annoying if you,if you follow the meta model.
And then when someone uses some kind of vague language, you
know, like, well, you know, everybody knows that you're like
(26:01):
everybody, every single person. Like it can, it can become
annoying to kind of hone in. Do you think there's any
difficulties with people either learning the Milton model or
implementing the the Milton model?
I don't think so. I and maybe it's just because I
love it. It's such a powerful tool that I
just learned. So it just came so naturally to
(26:23):
me that my my friends are alwayslike Rebecca, you can Milton
anybody through the floor with the things that you say because
it just becomes part of my it's like learning another language.
So it's like learning French or Spanish or Italian.
You learn Milton and it just becomes part of who you are.
Like it's not difficult to do, say, when another one is pacing
the current experience. So as you're sitting there
(26:45):
listening to me, you're nodding your head and you're really
understanding what's what's going, what's coming out of my
mouth. That's a simple pattern.
There's nothing difficult about that.
Like if you're finding this difficult, you can literally
just say what the person is doing in front of you and you're
able to build that rapport instantly.
(27:05):
Because ultimately that's what it's really about.
It's about building rapport and really getting in tune with
whoever's in front of you so youcan guide them in a way that's
going to help serve them the best.
So I really don't think there's much difficulty unless you
choose to make it difficult. I, I think it, it can feel
overwhelming because I've got toremember all these these tag tag
(27:27):
responses. I've got to remember all these
metaphors. I've got to have all these kind
of double meanings. I've got to have this kind of
embedded commands stated within a, a quote.
It can feel overwhelming, but I think it's like anything, if you
just practice one or two of these things, particularly if
you're a therapist, like get that in a session, you know,
that kind of that approach workseffectively.
You're turning it into that, that competency by doing it,
(27:51):
having the experience of of doing that.
One of the things I found fascinating about Milton
Ericsson is the creativity in the homework that he would set
his clients and he would give them homework that kind of
mimicked the very situation thatthey're in.
And then actually their homeworkbecomes a pattern interrupt.
(28:12):
It becomes a way of them changing their their kind of
belief systems. You tend to do things like that
with your clients. You give them kind of homework
or challenges to do. Always, always.
I love giving action steps because you can learn it, but
you're not really going to learnit until you do it.
You need to build that neurology.
So like you're saying, yes, it'sif you there's 19 patterns.
(28:35):
I could not and did not learn all 19 patterns at the same
time. I'm more comfortable doing like
less of them. So it's not about being
overwhelmed by them is even in my my presentation I'm doing I'm
only teaching 3 because if you were to teach all 19, you'll be
overloaded. So when it comes to homework for
(28:55):
my clients, it's I usually give them about three things.
And honestly one of the things is just to write down 5 things
that you're grateful for every single day.
It's a very simple task and it'sa huge pattern interrupt because
the amount of times people thinkabout all the things they've
done wrong, all the things that didn't go well for them that day
(29:18):
or all the things they didn't get to, it's like, well, instead
of doing that, let's look at what we did do.
Let's look at what went right. Let's look at all the things
that were a plus in your life. Who did you connect with that
you want to have or finding the good things.
And it's a simple thing, but it makes such a big difference and
it's such a big pattern interrupt because now you're
looking for the positives of your life and when what you
(29:41):
focus on expands. So when you start looking for
more positive things, more positive things show up.
Yeah, you're, you're priming and, and kind of exercising that
muscle to notice what's working.Well, people that are depressed
or highly anxious, highly anxious looking all the things
that could go wrong in the future and depressed, you know,
there's no hope. It's like, but that won't that
(30:03):
won't work. Everything is, is very negative.
So it does train those neural pathways.
My, my, I think most creative one that worked really well,
There was a client that I was working with that was
overweight. And the reason why she was
overweight is that she'd be working very long hours, come
back from work and she would have that in a dialogue of I
(30:23):
don't have time to cook something.
There's all these take away restaurants.
She'll just get something convenient and then she'd eat
the take away food. But quite often this take away
food is thousands of calories. So it was so I said, right, you
know, at the end of the first session I said, right, your
homework is to eat take away food every single night this
week. And I saw this really confused
(30:44):
face and she's like, you're meant to be helping me lose
weight, not gaining weight. And I said, look, there is a
caveat here. And I said, do you have a full
length mirror in your home? And she said, yes.
I said every time you get that take away I want you to get
ready to eat it in front of the full length mirror naked and
look at the parts of your body that you feel aren't the shape
(31:06):
that you want. And I said try your hardest to
enjoy that take away while looking at the the the shape of
your body that has been caused by this take away.
Anyway I got a message like 3 or4 days into their homework and
she's like I can't even look at the take away anymore.
That's a good one. What most people disassociate
from the consequence. Most smokers will see the
(31:29):
picture of lung cancer on the packet and and they say, oh, it
won't happen to me. But when you collide the
behavior with the consequence, it could be a real patent
interrupt because they've tried telling themselves, no, I'm not
going to have this today, but they've got that pattern
running. And when you collide the the
consequence with the action in that moment, suddenly it doesn't
become very desirable anymore. So you know that those kind of
(31:52):
Milton Erickson style homework, I think is is really fun.
Of course you're you're going tobe talking about the Milton
language patterns in the Mid America conference.
And you're quite right. Richard Bandler along with John
Grin and actually kind of built the Milton model is going to be
there. Are you hoping that he pops into
your your kind of talk to to kind of almost kind of grade
(32:16):
like how accurate you're doing it is?
Is that exciting for you or daunting for you or, or what do
you think? Well, I felt like I'm like I
have big shoes to fill here because he was the creator of
it. Although I'm speaking on the
Friday and I don't think he's showing up till the Sunday till
the day that he actually present.
So I have nothing to worry about, just to have that energy
of him being there. And, and I chose this topic
(32:40):
before I even knew that he was coming.
So I was like, Oh, this is just kind of cool.
And I could have looked at like,Oh my God, this is like
intimidating because like I'm doing something that that
imposter syndrome could have totally crept in to be like, I'm
doing something that he created.Instead though, I'm like, I'm
actually really excited because everyone's going to be here
(33:00):
learning and then learning from him on the Sunday where I get to
give him a little bit of a teaser on the Friday as to
something he created. So I just flipped it for myself
and I'm because I'm not thinkingof myself.
I'm thinking of my audience and who I'm going to be helping with
this and how fun and how powerful of a technique it is
(33:22):
that I'm actually excited for it.
No, I think that's the most that's the best way to to be in.
And I think Richard Bandler probably is my biggest influence
is why I'm a hypnotherapist. All of his early work, you know,
structure of magic, frogs into Princess, you know, but
particularly the stuff that was all about his transcripts of
(33:42):
what he actually did. So there's Using a Brain for a
Change by Connie Ray Andreas that kind of mapped out some of
his techniques and magic in action.
Big, big influence on me and. Are these all books?
Like should I be taking notes here?
Yeah, these are some of the the the OG books on on this area.
I know the frog and the Princess, but a couple of the
other ones I haven't heard of soI'll have to.
(34:03):
Yeah, Structure of Magic was I think a lot about the, the, the
meta model. I think Structure of Magic Part
2 was the Milton model and it was kind of that was the
original kind of place where it it and then you have
transformations, which again is around the same time of frogs
into Princess. But you know, sometimes I do
talks at these conferences aboutnested loops.
And I would say Richard Bandler is for for me, he's the GOAT of
(34:26):
nested loops. Like he's so good at kind of
weaving stories within stories. So I think I would probably have
a little bit of imposter syndrome if I was doing a talk
on nested loops and then RichardBandler comes in, But I think I
think I'd have fun with it. So give us a little bit of,
because I know you're very awareof the kind of stuff going on at
the the Mid America conference. Let us know a little bit about
(34:47):
what's happening there that people can expect if they do
come, but also a bit about you and if people want to learn more
about you, where they can find more information.
OK, so they can they can go to I'm Rebecca Wagner coaching on
all the socials as well as Rebecca wagnercoaching.com for
my website. That's pretty simple and easy.
I like to help women decrease stress and anxiety so they can
(35:10):
live their best life with inner peace, common joy.
So if anybody's looking for waysto decrease stress from a a
different perspective, then I I'd love to have a conversation
with you. When it comes to the conference,
there are so many cool things that are happening at this
conference and I went to it lastyear for the first time and this
(35:30):
year apparently it's going to bevery different.
So my only conference was beforethis was hypnothoughts live in
Vegas, which is like 600 plus people.
And then last year there was only about 100 people at this
conference. Like wow, it was very different.
So I had to like change my expectations because I had no
idea what to expect where it waslike a lot of people and then
(35:50):
this one is just like a few people, but you can have deeper
conversations. So this year I think that the
top line is 400. I think we're at three 5400.
So you're going to be able to, it's going to be like one of
those mid ones where it's like you can meet a lot of people,
but you can also have deeper conversations and there's lots
of different ways that you can do that.
(36:11):
We're doing they're going to be doing swag bags.
So I like giving gifts for everybody who comes.
I don't know how many bags they have or how it's going to work.
They are. So I'm also part of Rich Guzzi,
who's Rich and Joe who are running it.
I'm part of their elite program.So I've got a little more
insight than some. Obviously, I'm not going to say
(36:31):
what what the public doesn't already know.
Although we do know that on the Friday we're doing the Family
Feud kind of games, which is like so much fun.
And last year it got a little off topic, which is fun because
it just makes it for good laughs.
And for fun. We have, he's actually doing a
VIP room this year, which is really cool.
(36:53):
So there's going to be an extra room that you can, if you've
paid extra for the VIP, you get to go.
I don't know exactly how it's going to work, but it's going to
be a separate suite that it's going to be.
Whoever has VIP can go chat, chat with the other VIPs in a
different setting. Not really sure how it's
working. I just know there's a VIP room.
We're going to have lunch each day.
(37:13):
There's like a buffet lunch thatyou can pay.
It's only like $20 a day. And it's great because
everyone's going to be in the same room and you can have
lunch. And then we can just go on to
the next presentation after that, no one has to leave the
conference room, which is great.Then there's going to be the
gala on the Saturday. So he wants it like red carpet
(37:34):
style. I'm like, rich.
So like, what am I supposed to wear?
He's like, wear the nicest thing.
Yeah. I'm like, OK, so I'm like how
like formal do we go here? So I'm going like semi kind of
formal 'cause I'm just like, well I'm going to dress, dress
up like the way I would like to.Cause like last year people
showed up in jeans. Like no, no, I don't want
anybody in jeans. OK, perfect.
(37:56):
So that'll be fine 'cause then he also does his show and then
there's going to be awards given.
Don't know how the awards work, but awards are given.
And then it's fun dancing the rest of the night away.
Then the Sunday he's doing Richard Banler is the and Chase
Hughes are the keynotes of the afternoon and then he's going to
do a pool party on the Sunday night.
(38:18):
And then on Monday there's a post conference of Richard
Banler speak present presenting all day.
And then I think Tuesday is Chase Hughes.
And then on the front and back end there's also pre and post
conferences of a few other people.
You'd have to go to the website,which is what is it,
hypnosisconference.org. Org yeah, I think that's the so
(38:40):
so check that out. And do you have anything that
cause normally how we end is either an experience you could
take us through like some kind of guided hypnosis, or if
there's something that people can kind of download or, or get
like tell us what they can expect.
I can give the a download of a, it's just a general decrease
(39:04):
stress relaxation hypnosis. I can put that in, I'll give it
to you and you can put it in theshow notes.
And it's just a great way to help decrease stress in a way
that is quick and easy. And then that can also lead to
the stress reset, which is a three day e-mail sequence where
each day you get literally a 2 minute stress release, hypnosis,
(39:29):
literally 2 minutes because that's all it takes to reset
your body. So you got one day, one day 2
and day three. And it's a, and it just changes
the way that you're going to have an outlook on the rest of
your day. So I can also give you the the
link for that and just a great way to help decrease stress in a
easy, fast and fun way. Perfect.
(39:50):
So if you're feeling stressed right now, check the link in the
description, you'll get that download and and also you can
get those kind of tips on e-mailas well.
And before we let you go, is there anything else that you
wanted to kind of share with theaudience?
I just I had a great time so thank you for having me.
It was so much fun talking aboutthings that are near and dear to
(40:12):
my heart and how we can really make a change on the world and
on the future generations just by knowing who we are.
That we can be the catalyst and we no longer have to hold on to
those old stories that have comefrom people from our past.
Fantastic, and all the links to the relevant websites for
Rebecca will also be in the description as well, so check
(40:35):
those out. Rebecca, thank you so much for
joining me on The Hypnotist. Thank you.
Thank you so much for joining meon today's episode of The
Hypnotist, and if you've enjoyedtoday's episode, I would
encourage you, if you haven't already, to hit the subscribe
button or follow button to make sure that you're automatically
(40:57):
notified of any future episodes that I release.
Also, by doing that, it lets thealgorithm know that you like
this show, and that will put it in front of even more people
that might not know that this show exists.
So that would be helpful for me.And if you like the stuff that I
do, take a moment just to have alook in the show notes or the
(41:20):
description because there's lotsof free things that I have to
offer, including free hypnosis downloads without the intro or
the outro like I'm doing now. So thank you again for joining
me on today's episode, and I'll see you again soon for the next
one.
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