January 15, 2025 • 31 mins
"You have to push through that first fear barrier because it's one of those universal themes in storytelling, the fear of failure."
The spark of a great story can come from the most unexpected places. In my recent conversation with Matthew Luhn, an accomplished storyteller and former Disney/Pixar creative, we talk about the magic of universal themes in storytelling, whether for film or business. Read my blog for more about our conversation.
Resources:
The Best Story Wins: How to Leverage Hollywood Storytelling in Business and Beyond by Matthew Luhn
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to the Jody Mayberry show. I have a
returning guest that I find just fascinating, and I
know you'll love him too. Matthew Lund, the author of best
Story Wins and former Disney and Pixar
storyteller. Matthew, it's so great to have you back. Well, thank you, Jody,
for inviting me back. Well, I wanna tell you, Matthew, that I
(00:26):
don't just talk about how wonderful your book is when I'm in front of
you. I recently was in Orlando with
2 Disney executives and and we are talking about
storytelling. And I said, you know, in my opinion, the best book on
storytelling that's out there is The Best Story Wins by Matthew Linn. And they
both took out pins and wrote that down. So hopefully it's
(00:48):
helping spread this. I still believe it. This is
one of the best books on storytelling that's out
there. Only a 127 pages. Easy to get
through If you're going to read alright. It's easy to get through in the
sense that it's short and easy to read, but I feel like
you never actually get through it because I personally
(01:10):
just keep referencing it, coming back, rereading pieces. So
you did a a wonderful job. We talked about that last time you were on
the show, but I just wanted you to know that was, what, 3 years
ago you were on the podcast, and I still keep your book
near my desk. I still reference it. That's very kind of you. Thank you,
Jody. Well, since you were on the show last time,
(01:32):
you've had some things happen. The you've got some wonderful
things in the works. You had a a children's book come out. Let's hear about
some of that. Well, you know, I'm trying to I'm trying to go back 3
years. And, you know, I think the
first thing I'm thinking about is I during
the pandemic, and we were all home, and, you know, we're
(01:54):
all juggling our lives virtually on Zoom. And
if you had kids like I did, you're now helping your kids do
school on Zoom. During this time, I guess, as a creative
person, my brain doesn't stop, and I end up
directing an animated short film from home.
And I turned my Airstream camper into
(02:16):
my my office. And during that time, I made an
animated short. It was 10 minutes long, and it's,
it's called Sprite Fright. And I don't know if I told you about it, Jody,
but and it is it's got that Pixar
great animation quality and character designs, but it's
kind of an aged up Pixar type thing,
(02:39):
kind of 14 plus. But it's about kinda
cute forest Smurf looking sprites that do
everything they can to protect their humble little forest
even to the point of getting rid of humans in a comical
dark humor way. Well, I made this short, and it went
on YouTube. You can see it on YouTube. And it went viral, and
(03:02):
it ended up winning all these best animated short films at festivals
and got into the most famous animation festival in the
world in France called Annecy, and then got
optioned to be a TV show. So that's the
first bit of great news. And so the, the
company that's making it is the company that
(03:25):
made the animated show, called Rick and Morty. And
so it is definitely more for an older audience,
but but that is one of the things in the works.
And then the following year, I ended up
writing my children approved, Santa Yeti
book, which you can it's on Amazon, and
(03:47):
Barnes and Noble's and all those places. And Santa Yeti
is a a cute book, Christmas save
Christmas book about a Yeti who hates being cold in the
North Pole and finds a way to get to Brazil
secretly on Santa's sleigh, which ends up
turning into a comical mess, and the yeti has to save
(04:09):
Christmas. So but those are some of the things I've been working
on, and I also have a film in development that I can't give
details on yet. But that is in the process. So
I've been keeping busy, keeping creative, and having fun.
Oh, man. You've got a lot going on, and it's so
neat to see how things have gone for you in the last few
(04:32):
years. And the Sprite Fright was delightful. It
was fun. Did you enjoy the experience of directing
animation? Oh, definitely. I definitely. You know, my
career, I've been in I mean, this is crazy to think about. But
when I started in the animation business in
1991, 1992,
(04:54):
as an animator on the Simpsons, so it's been over 30 years, All
my jobs in the animation business, I've done almost everything
from animation, like on the Simpsons and
animating on Toy Story, and then working as a writer and a
storyboard artist on, you know, 10, you know,
films and TV specials and shorts at
(05:16):
Pixar. But then Sprite Fright was my first
directing gig. And I had so much
fun working on that. And all of the experience
of doing all the different jobs
in animation, it all kinda came together
in that directing process on Sprite Fright. And so,
(05:39):
I had so much fun doing that, and I think
that is a blessing and a curse because then you just wanna do more
of it because it was so much fun. And so
I have been very fortunate in my career
that I have you know and it's perseverance,
but as well. But that I've continued to be able to
(06:02):
create and have some other directing
opportunities now as well. So Is that is
directing something you saw coming, something you
wanted, or was it an opportunity that popped up and you took it?
Well, it was an opportunity that came up and I took it.
When the animation studio that produced Sprite
(06:23):
Fright reached out to me to help them
find a director to make an animated short at their company.
They reached out to me because they had taken one of my story
animation master classes. It was a workshop that they
attended in Italy. This was, oh my gosh, 12
years ago, I did a a 3 day story
(06:46):
workshop class in Italy. They went to it. And then
years later, when they wanted to improve their storytelling
skills At their studio, they reached out to me saying, hey. Do you
know of any directors who would like to make something with us? Because we trust
your story instincts. And I said, hey. Guess what?
I could be that director. And so it was that, you
(07:09):
know, that moment we all have in life where sometimes
you're given an opportunity to either take a
chance that maybe is a little scary or to pass on
it. And that moment, I ended up taking the
chance and leaping into something that I had no experience
doing, but it I learned along the way and ended up loving
(07:32):
it. So how neat. And now now
look at where things are heading because you took a scary chance.
I know. I think everybody can relate. Maybe it's
a different industry or maybe it's not business related. Maybe it's
personal. But I think all of us have probably been faced with
times in our life where there's an opportunity that maybe scares
(07:55):
us, and we either choose to take the take
the leap or not. So, yeah, I took
the leap. And I think it gave me the confidence since that time
to take more leaps and do more things that scare
me. You know, this book, Santi Yeti, that,
came out last Christmas. I, basically, I gave a talk,
(08:18):
a story keynote at a publishing company that does mostly
children's books in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
And I gave this story keynote. And then afterwards, when
I'm walking out and saying hi to everybody and the
main editor of the publishing group invites me to go to
lunch with them and and asks me, have you ever wanted to publish a book,
(08:39):
make write a children's book? And I said, yes.
I would love to do that, and I have an idea. And he
said, well, that's great. Please send it to me on Monday. And then when I
went home on the weekend, I scrambled to figure out an idea
because I I didn't even have one. But, you
know, it's those moments where it's kinda like fake it till you make
(09:02):
it. And I scramble through all my story
ideas, you know, in my computer, found one that
was actually a feature film idea, and I boiled it down into
500 words, sent it on Monday. They liked
it. And then from that point, about 8 months later, the book
came out, which is not a normal thing in the children's
(09:23):
picture book industry. But yeah. You know? Sometimes
you just gotta take the leap. Yeah. So I'm gonna come right
back to that. You said something I need to ask about, but first, I wanna
tell you this because I think you will appreciate it. I was at
a business workshop. I was helping teach at
this workshop, and they did a session about
(09:45):
creativity, and they had a
someone who does sketches and watercolors. And I thought, come on
now. That's not what I'm here for. And I only draw stick figures, and I'm
like, this is gonna be so unenjoyable. And it was Jason
Nicholas. He does uses the brand ink inspired
life and or ink inspired life. And he led some
(10:08):
sketching, And we went out into the streets of Spokane
and sketched a building, and then I sketched a lamppost.
And I have to tell you, Matthew, I got hooked. Ever since I've
been home, I don't share them with anybody, but I have a sketchbook.
And once a week, I will pull out my photos and find
a a building. That's all I've been working on now, and I'll just sketch
(10:31):
it. And it's completely for me, but I
absolutely love it. Yeah. You know,
I maybe it's I mean, I've always been a creative
person my entire life, and I've had a lot of
encouragement from my family and teachers
that I should pursue a career in art when I was a
(10:53):
kid. But I don't think it was until a couple of years
ago that I really embraced
trying to do things that scare me, creative things. I would say I'm
not gonna do skydiving or scuba diving or something. Right?
So, you know, for example, I think it was maybe 2 years
ago, my daughters were wanting
(11:15):
to get a piano. They don't know how to play piano, neither
does my wife and I. But I thought to myself, you know, I've always wanted
to learn how to play piano. And then so 2 years ago, I
decided as a creative challenge, I'm gonna take
piano classes. And it breaks your brain a little
bit as somebody. I'm this was when I was when I
(11:37):
turned 50, I think I I decided I'm gonna embark on this.
Being in a piano class with someone standing over your shoulder
telling you, almost reprimanding you a little bit about how to put
your fingers on the keys, and you're not doing it right. And, you know, it's
really hard because you get older sometimes to say, I
wanna keep learning. But I think that's one of those things that
(12:00):
keeps us sharp, especially creative people. I would
say anybody, not just creative people. No matter what you do in life,
continuing to think like a student, it keeps you
alive. And even last night, we have our, you
know, piano and just kinda going on there and
going, oh, gosh. Do I even still remember how to play the piano a little
(12:23):
bit? And then it's just the muscle memory kind of kicks in. And I'm like,
oh, wow. You know? All of a sudden, I'm playing, you know,
Free Falling by Tom Petty, and it's all coming out. And I'm like, oh, right.
I still remember. So but it's I think you
have to be proactive about continuing
to stay creative and thinking like a student in your
(12:44):
life no matter how old you are. Yeah. What a great thought.
And to hear you at this stage in
life to start embracing things that scare you and taking on
things that scare you. What from a creative
perspective or inspiration perspective, what happens
when you start doing that? Well, I think the first thing is it's
(13:07):
fear, and everything in your body is telling you this is
uncomfortable. Why are you doing this to yourself? And
you have to, like, push through that kind of first fear
barrier because, you know, it's, like, one of those universal themes in
storytelling, the fear of failure. And in
business and creative life, nobody wants to fail. We
(13:30):
having to push through that first barrier and get
through that, and then it becomes a little easier. But, you know, I
think all of us trying out something new and doing
something that's unfamiliar to us is scary. You know? I think about
times where there's the new update on my iPhone, and
it just frazzles me because all of a sudden, I'm not
(13:52):
swiping this way. I'm swiping this way, and everything is different. And I
think your natural reaction is just to shut down. It's too scary.
I'm not gonna adapt. I'm not gonna change. Just keep things the way they are.
But I find that if you can just push through that initial
fear, then you start to adapt, and
you grow. And all of a sudden, you
(14:15):
have learned something new that you would have never
thought you could do or you could have imagined.
So Yeah. Very neat. And I'm
have surprised myself with moving
beyond stick figure park rangers now and to being able to
sketch something and show it to I don't show them to many people,
(14:38):
but when I do, they a pleasure of
mine was showing the clock tower in
Riverfront Park in Spokane to somebody and they actually recognized it. And
I'm like, hey, it may not be that bad if someone recognized. Okay.
The one place I need to visit, you were talking about the process
that led you to Santa Yeti.
(15:01):
You said you went through your computer, through your story ideas.
And I said, oh, we need to talk about this. So tell me
about this. You have some sort of story inventory, it sounds
like. Alright. So one of the things I try to do
is I do try to journal. Okay? And I I find it
difficult because well, I found it difficult at
(15:23):
first because it feels a little bit like a chore
sometimes. And I found what worked for me was that
every time I do a keynote talk someplace where I'm
sent someplace new, it could be somewhere flashy new like
Dubai, or it could be someplace that
is just regular small town USA,
(15:45):
which usually the most interesting stories come from. But what
I do is when I'm flying back home or I'm driving
back home, I just end up recalling
what happened at the event. And
it's not just walked up on the stage, did a talk to 500
financial advisors and blah. It's usually
(16:08):
there's always some comedy, some
drama that's in there, and then the people you meet and the things you
see. So, usually, these journal entries I write
are very analytical, just this is what happened.
But I end up going back to a lot of these
things for inspiration for characters, you
(16:29):
know, or for situations or worlds. And then I
kinda pick the things that maybe were unique and interesting that happened, and
and then I pull those into a story that maybe
are not about humans, but about ducks or yetis
or robots. But I take the
experience that I happened, and I use those as kind of metaphors
(16:52):
or, you know, analogies or and I pull those into the
stories. And so, you know, thinking about, like, the coldest
place I've ever been to before. And it's a combination between
Saint Petersburg, Russia during the winter years
ago and being in Edmonton, Canada, you know,
for speaking at a game company. And thinking
(17:14):
about, boy, if you lived up here all the time and you were this cold,
you would just wanna get to Brazil or something. You know? And
then you just so I think you have to do a little bit of the
work of just observing life and
recording things that happened to you. You could even just record it, I guess, on
your phone if you wanted. Because the thing is, I don't know if it's me,
(17:37):
but you tend to forget about these moments later on unless
you you write them down. So that's how I kind of
have material to go to later on. And I think
the greatest stories that are told are when people end up
taking moments, usually 2 familiar moments,
2 things that people can relate to, and then they
(18:00):
lend them together. And so you take kind
of a real things that happened to you and then maybe kind of a
make believe set of characters or world and then kinda bring these
together. So that's how I do it. That is really
interesting to hear and to realize these creative
stories about yetis or ducks or robots, they
(18:22):
actually come from elsewhere, from something you saw in
Omaha. Well, it was interesting to hear also
that your time in Edmonton led to an idea.
I spent some time in Fort McMurray, Alberta,
and I don't know if you know where how that is. You so you went
to Edmonton and you thought, wow, this is really far north for
(18:44):
McMurray is 4 and a half hours further north. And I
got there and they said, you really lucked out. You got here
when it's warm. And I said, warm. It's 6
degrees. And they said, yeah, but it was negative 25.
So it was so cold. But I got to go
dog sledding for the first time. I went curling for the first time, and
(19:07):
I saw the northern lights for the first time. So quite the experience. That
is that is cool. But see, those are the things
that you wanna write down or at least record.
So then later on, when you are, you
know, developing a story or, you know, have an
idea, you can pull from those personal experiences. Because,
(19:29):
you know, it really is true when people say write what you
know. So the more you know, you have more material to work with.
Right? And, also, along with writing what you
know is make it personal. And so
I think everybody has these stories,
moments they experience every day. I think the thing is it's
(19:52):
a combination between being too busy, maybe too lazy, maybe too
scared, but we don't write them down.
And you don't have to be a great writer to write
down these moments that happened to you. You just have to get them
down so you don't forget. Yeah. Okay. I may come back
to that because I I have more Okay. To I really like this
(20:14):
idea. But I also wanna make sure we get to talk
about Inside Out 2. One of
the best movies I've seen in a little while, we went as
a family to the movie theater, and I hesitate to
to say anything that might sound bad about Pixar because I love
their movies. But they did seem to have a dip for a
(20:37):
while. And then all of a sudden Inside Out 2
and I felt like, oh, this is the old Pixar. This is like when
Matthew Long was there. It was fabulous. So
why did Inside Out 2 work so well? Alright.
So when you think of the classic
Pixar films, like Monsters Inc and Ratatouille and Up and
(20:59):
the Toy Story ones that the ones that I I worked on, one of
the key factors to making those stories great beyond
the great animation and voice talent and music and all that, there needs to
be a universal theme. There needs to be something in the
story that connects to the hearts of every
person on the planet, every age, every gender, every culture.
(21:21):
And so when you watch the Toy Story movies, and I talk about
this in my book, when you see the Toy Story
movies, they connect with everybody's fear
of abandonment on the planet. What if
I'm not loved anymore? What if I'm no longer needed? What if I get
too old and no one wants me? All the Toy Story films, that was
(21:43):
Woody's story. What if my owner doesn't love me? What if I'm replaced
by a cooler toy? What if I get old and I'm grown out?
Every one of these Pixar films during that
golden age of Pixar had a strong universal theme.
These universal themes are like the desire for safety and security. That
was Finding Nemo. The desire for love, which we can all relate to.
(22:06):
That was WALL E, you know, because that was really a love story. The
desire to choose your own freedom, you know, your own fate.
That was the movie Brave. You know, the girl with the bow and arrow not
wanting to be the queen. And Ratatouille not
wanting to be a rat that just steals but makes food.
The universal themes that were
(22:28):
happening for a couple of the last or I should say the absence
of universal themes that were happening, I mean, the last
couple of Pixar films, I think, is what
made people not go and see them. I mean, there was a lot of other
factors too. The pandemic and people not getting back to movie
theaters. But, you know, just to give an example, the movie Lightyear
(22:50):
that came out. I mean, Buzz Lightyear, he is
probably one of the most recognizable characters animated characters in
the world, but the truth is animated sci fi
films don't do well in the box office. The
reason why WALL E did, though, was because it was a love
story. It was the last robot on earth that wanted to find
(23:12):
someone. That's why people love that movie. Lightyear didn't suit do
so well because it was a purely sci fi
adventure action animated film. You don't really know what
the universal theme was in it. How do I connect to this film? Then we
got inside out too. And you think about since the pandemic
and with the whole election we went through and all
(23:36):
of the concerns we have in life between
AI and the environment and, you know, there's a list that goes on forever. If
you can think of a universal theme that's relatable to all those
things, it's anxiety. And that's what inside out 2
was about. It was the universal dealing with the universal theme
of anxiety and how do you process it,
(23:58):
how do you deal with it. And that's why that film did so
well, because they got back to
something that connects to every person on the planet, which is the
universal theme of anxiety. So that
is important, not only for animated films
or live action films, but that's important for our
(24:20):
communication in every industry, in every business.
When you think about how do we make authentic connections with
people, it's making sure that we're relatable, and
we are using universal themes
to be able to make whatever is important to us
memorable and impactful in person. You led right
(24:42):
into what I was going to going to ask about as you were talking about
this is do you come up with universal
themes for business storytelling? The back of your
book even says bring buzz to the boardroom. So that makes me think,
okay, do you give a presentation in a boardroom with
a universal theme? Absolutely. I mean, when you you
(25:04):
can go through every industry, and you
can find a universal theme in it. So let's just say, for example,
that anything with, like, the health industry or
life insurance or pharmaceutical industry, all that
stuff. I mean, that sounds like that could be very
dry and analytical, but the universal theme is the
(25:26):
desire for safety and security and also
the desire for love to keep the people you love safe and secure. And
if, god forbid, something happens to you, do you have the right life
insurance that is gonna make sure your loved ones are taken
care of? So it's not just a a story
around how much does life insurance
(25:48):
cost. It's the story of taking care of
our loved ones. Right? And then you think about I'm
trying to think of other analytical things. Like, let's pick cybersecurity.
You know? That seems very dry and analytical.
But when you think about what is cybersecurity about, it's about
resilience. It's about having the right
(26:11):
software and the right team to help you predict
the unknown of what's gonna happen in the future. Keep your
data safe. Right? That's about resilience
and being prepared for the unknown. Then all of a
sudden, it opens up this universal theme of everybody
knows that it's important to be prepared
(26:34):
for the unknown, and then we can share all of our most prepared
moments in life and our least prepared moments in life. And I can't remember
if in my book I share my least prepared moment in my
life with my son going up Yosemite
Falls and not being prepared,
thinking to myself as a dad, oh, a bottle of water
(26:56):
and a snack bar split between the 2 of us can get us up
this giant mountain, not realizing it's switchback
trails for 5 hours, and my son hates me when we get to the top.
That was my least prepared moment of my life. I'm actually telling my son it's
okay to drink from the waterfall. You know, we won't get, you know,
some sort of weird bug in our intestines. But that was my worst
(27:19):
prepared moment in my life. And I use that story
whenever I'm talking to people in life
insurance or health insurance about
why it's so important to be prepared to be able
to make sure you have great life insurance in case something bad happens
or you've got a good medical plan in case something bad
(27:41):
happens. Because when you're not prepared when bad things
happen, it it can turn into a disaster. And then the way
I always do it as a storyteller is after I share the worst
example around a universal theme, I shared the
best example. When my son and I went back to Yosemite
Falls, and I comically brought so many bottles
(28:04):
of Gatorade and water and snack bars, and
we left, you know, at 8 AM and had a great experience
because I was prepared. So these stories that we weave
in to even our business pictures will make
them, yes, more entertaining, but also make them
more memorable. Because people are left remembering the story
(28:26):
and remembering the theme or takeaway connected to it, which could
be about being prepared, how to
cope with anxiety, and how to
make life better for the ones you love. Whether it's entertainment or
business. The stories that have a universal theme connected are gonna
connect with the most people in the world. You laid
(28:48):
this out so well on how to use that universal theme
idea in business storytelling. That that is wonderful. And
to realize that no matter what you do, you could
be an electrician or a plumber, but you're not just an
electrician. Right? There is a bigger theme involved in
that. Oh, yeah. No. Definitely. Whether it's entertainment
(29:10):
or or business, I hate to say this, but well, and I don't hate to
say this, but it is the name of my book. The best story wins.
So it really is. Whoever weaves the best story and work.
They win. You know? And I think in the business setting,
what Matthew just said is so relevant because you may
find you have a better product, a better service, but
(29:31):
somebody without that same quality is doing better than you. Why
is that? And it's probably because they're telling a better story.
Absolutely. You mean, this is, you know, this is why you end
up binge watching TV shows, why you
watch that one movie over and over again. It's it's because it had a
great story. And I really see the best
(29:53):
leaders, the best CEOs, the best coaches, the
best teachers, they are storytellers. You know? They
know how to captivate people's attention. Yeah.
Alright. Wonderful. Well, Matthew, I have to tell you one of the reasons I
invited you on the show again is I, in
particular, wanted to talk about the story spine. But here,
(30:15):
we've talked this long already and never got there. So maybe
you come back another time and we talk specifically about that.
Yeah. Sounds good. You know, it's a challenge inviting someone who
makes a living as a storyteller to
not go into different story threads. Well, that's what that's what makes it
on that one. Yeah. Makes it wonderful. And we didn't even get into
(30:38):
your recent road trip with your uncle. I'm sure there's a lot of stories there.
And, of course that next time. Being a park ranger, I always wanna talk about
road trips and parks and recreation. So I think
we have more to talk about. If we wanna find either of your
books or what else you're up to, where can we do that? Well, the
best story wins. You can find it on
(31:00):
Amazon, on online, at probably many different
locations. Right? And so, it's the one with the blue cover
and a light bulb on the front. And then my book,
Santa Yeti, which is, you know, it's
a children's picture book. You can also find that
online, Amazon, Barnes and Noble's, the Santa Yeti
(31:23):
or Santa Yeti. So, yeah, you can find those.
And then you can also find me online, my website,
matthewlunstory.com. Yes. Alright. Well, it's
great to have you back, Matthew, and we won't wait so long. We won't wait
3 years for the next time. Alright. Thank you so much, and thank you for
listening to the Jodi Mayberry Show.
(31:51):
He just likes to hear me talk. It's Sugar Jay.
Welcome to the Jody Mayberry show. I have a
returning guest that I find just fascinating, and I
know you'll love him too. Matthew Lund, the author of best
Story Wins and former Disney and Pixar
storyteller. Matthew, it's so great to have you back. Well, thank you, Jody,
for inviting me back. Well, I wanna tell you, Matthew, that I
(00:26):
don't just talk about how wonderful your book is when I'm in front of
you. I recently was in Orlando with
2 Disney executives and and we are talking about
storytelling. And I said, you know, in my opinion, the best book on
storytelling that's out there is The Best Story Wins by Matthew Linn. And they
both took out pins and wrote that down. So hopefully it's
(00:48):
helping spread this. I still believe it. This is
one of the best books on storytelling that's out
there. Only a 127 pages. Easy to get
through If you're going to read alright. It's easy to get through in the
sense that it's short and easy to read, but I feel like
you never actually get through it because I personally
(01:10):
just keep referencing it, coming back, rereading pieces. So
you did a a wonderful job. We talked about that last time you were on
the show, but I just wanted you to know that was, what, 3 years
ago you were on the podcast, and I still keep your book
near my desk. I still reference it. That's very kind of you. Thank you,
Jody. Well, since you were on the show last time,
(01:32):
you've had some things happen. The you've got some wonderful
things in the works. You had a a children's book come out. Let's hear about
some of that. Well, you know, I'm trying to I'm trying to go back 3
years. And, you know, I think the
first thing I'm thinking about is I during
the pandemic, and we were all home, and, you know, we're
(01:54):
all juggling our lives virtually on Zoom. And
if you had kids like I did, you're now helping your kids do
school on Zoom. During this time, I guess, as a creative
person, my brain doesn't stop, and I end up
directing an animated short film from home.
And I turned my Airstream camper into
(02:16):
my my office. And during that time, I made an
animated short. It was 10 minutes long, and it's,
it's called Sprite Fright. And I don't know if I told you about it, Jody,
but and it is it's got that Pixar
great animation quality and character designs, but it's
kind of an aged up Pixar type thing,
(02:39):
kind of 14 plus. But it's about kinda
cute forest Smurf looking sprites that do
everything they can to protect their humble little forest
even to the point of getting rid of humans in a comical
dark humor way. Well, I made this short, and it went
on YouTube. You can see it on YouTube. And it went viral, and
(03:02):
it ended up winning all these best animated short films at festivals
and got into the most famous animation festival in the
world in France called Annecy, and then got
optioned to be a TV show. So that's the
first bit of great news. And so the, the
company that's making it is the company that
(03:25):
made the animated show, called Rick and Morty. And
so it is definitely more for an older audience,
but but that is one of the things in the works.
And then the following year, I ended up
writing my children approved, Santa Yeti
book, which you can it's on Amazon, and
(03:47):
Barnes and Noble's and all those places. And Santa Yeti
is a a cute book, Christmas save
Christmas book about a Yeti who hates being cold in the
North Pole and finds a way to get to Brazil
secretly on Santa's sleigh, which ends up
turning into a comical mess, and the yeti has to save
(04:09):
Christmas. So but those are some of the things I've been working
on, and I also have a film in development that I can't give
details on yet. But that is in the process. So
I've been keeping busy, keeping creative, and having fun.
Oh, man. You've got a lot going on, and it's so
neat to see how things have gone for you in the last few
(04:32):
years. And the Sprite Fright was delightful. It
was fun. Did you enjoy the experience of directing
animation? Oh, definitely. I definitely. You know, my
career, I've been in I mean, this is crazy to think about. But
when I started in the animation business in
1991, 1992,
(04:54):
as an animator on the Simpsons, so it's been over 30 years, All
my jobs in the animation business, I've done almost everything
from animation, like on the Simpsons and
animating on Toy Story, and then working as a writer and a
storyboard artist on, you know, 10, you know,
films and TV specials and shorts at
(05:16):
Pixar. But then Sprite Fright was my first
directing gig. And I had so much
fun working on that. And all of the experience
of doing all the different jobs
in animation, it all kinda came together
in that directing process on Sprite Fright. And so,
(05:39):
I had so much fun doing that, and I think
that is a blessing and a curse because then you just wanna do more
of it because it was so much fun. And so
I have been very fortunate in my career
that I have you know and it's perseverance,
but as well. But that I've continued to be able to
(06:02):
create and have some other directing
opportunities now as well. So Is that is
directing something you saw coming, something you
wanted, or was it an opportunity that popped up and you took it?
Well, it was an opportunity that came up and I took it.
When the animation studio that produced Sprite
(06:23):
Fright reached out to me to help them
find a director to make an animated short at their company.
They reached out to me because they had taken one of my story
animation master classes. It was a workshop that they
attended in Italy. This was, oh my gosh, 12
years ago, I did a a 3 day story
(06:46):
workshop class in Italy. They went to it. And then
years later, when they wanted to improve their storytelling
skills At their studio, they reached out to me saying, hey. Do you
know of any directors who would like to make something with us? Because we trust
your story instincts. And I said, hey. Guess what?
I could be that director. And so it was that, you
(07:09):
know, that moment we all have in life where sometimes
you're given an opportunity to either take a
chance that maybe is a little scary or to pass on
it. And that moment, I ended up taking the
chance and leaping into something that I had no experience
doing, but it I learned along the way and ended up loving
(07:32):
it. So how neat. And now now
look at where things are heading because you took a scary chance.
I know. I think everybody can relate. Maybe it's
a different industry or maybe it's not business related. Maybe it's
personal. But I think all of us have probably been faced with
times in our life where there's an opportunity that maybe scares
(07:55):
us, and we either choose to take the take
the leap or not. So, yeah, I took
the leap. And I think it gave me the confidence since that time
to take more leaps and do more things that scare
me. You know, this book, Santi Yeti, that,
came out last Christmas. I, basically, I gave a talk,
(08:18):
a story keynote at a publishing company that does mostly
children's books in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
And I gave this story keynote. And then afterwards, when
I'm walking out and saying hi to everybody and the
main editor of the publishing group invites me to go to
lunch with them and and asks me, have you ever wanted to publish a book,
(08:39):
make write a children's book? And I said, yes.
I would love to do that, and I have an idea. And he
said, well, that's great. Please send it to me on Monday. And then when I
went home on the weekend, I scrambled to figure out an idea
because I I didn't even have one. But, you
know, it's those moments where it's kinda like fake it till you make
(09:02):
it. And I scramble through all my story
ideas, you know, in my computer, found one that
was actually a feature film idea, and I boiled it down into
500 words, sent it on Monday. They liked
it. And then from that point, about 8 months later, the book
came out, which is not a normal thing in the children's
(09:23):
picture book industry. But yeah. You know? Sometimes
you just gotta take the leap. Yeah. So I'm gonna come right
back to that. You said something I need to ask about, but first, I wanna
tell you this because I think you will appreciate it. I was at
a business workshop. I was helping teach at
this workshop, and they did a session about
(09:45):
creativity, and they had a
someone who does sketches and watercolors. And I thought, come on
now. That's not what I'm here for. And I only draw stick figures, and I'm
like, this is gonna be so unenjoyable. And it was Jason
Nicholas. He does uses the brand ink inspired
life and or ink inspired life. And he led some
(10:08):
sketching, And we went out into the streets of Spokane
and sketched a building, and then I sketched a lamppost.
And I have to tell you, Matthew, I got hooked. Ever since I've
been home, I don't share them with anybody, but I have a sketchbook.
And once a week, I will pull out my photos and find
a a building. That's all I've been working on now, and I'll just sketch
(10:31):
it. And it's completely for me, but I
absolutely love it. Yeah. You know,
I maybe it's I mean, I've always been a creative
person my entire life, and I've had a lot of
encouragement from my family and teachers
that I should pursue a career in art when I was a
(10:53):
kid. But I don't think it was until a couple of years
ago that I really embraced
trying to do things that scare me, creative things. I would say I'm
not gonna do skydiving or scuba diving or something. Right?
So, you know, for example, I think it was maybe 2 years
ago, my daughters were wanting
(11:15):
to get a piano. They don't know how to play piano, neither
does my wife and I. But I thought to myself, you know, I've always wanted
to learn how to play piano. And then so 2 years ago, I
decided as a creative challenge, I'm gonna take
piano classes. And it breaks your brain a little
bit as somebody. I'm this was when I was when I
(11:37):
turned 50, I think I I decided I'm gonna embark on this.
Being in a piano class with someone standing over your shoulder
telling you, almost reprimanding you a little bit about how to put
your fingers on the keys, and you're not doing it right. And, you know, it's
really hard because you get older sometimes to say, I
wanna keep learning. But I think that's one of those things that
(12:00):
keeps us sharp, especially creative people. I would
say anybody, not just creative people. No matter what you do in life,
continuing to think like a student, it keeps you
alive. And even last night, we have our, you
know, piano and just kinda going on there and
going, oh, gosh. Do I even still remember how to play the piano a little
(12:23):
bit? And then it's just the muscle memory kind of kicks in. And I'm like,
oh, wow. You know? All of a sudden, I'm playing, you know,
Free Falling by Tom Petty, and it's all coming out. And I'm like, oh, right.
I still remember. So but it's I think you
have to be proactive about continuing
to stay creative and thinking like a student in your
(12:44):
life no matter how old you are. Yeah. What a great thought.
And to hear you at this stage in
life to start embracing things that scare you and taking on
things that scare you. What from a creative
perspective or inspiration perspective, what happens
when you start doing that? Well, I think the first thing is it's
(13:07):
fear, and everything in your body is telling you this is
uncomfortable. Why are you doing this to yourself? And
you have to, like, push through that kind of first fear
barrier because, you know, it's, like, one of those universal themes in
storytelling, the fear of failure. And in
business and creative life, nobody wants to fail. We
(13:30):
having to push through that first barrier and get
through that, and then it becomes a little easier. But, you know, I
think all of us trying out something new and doing
something that's unfamiliar to us is scary. You know? I think about
times where there's the new update on my iPhone, and
it just frazzles me because all of a sudden, I'm not
(13:52):
swiping this way. I'm swiping this way, and everything is different. And I
think your natural reaction is just to shut down. It's too scary.
I'm not gonna adapt. I'm not gonna change. Just keep things the way they are.
But I find that if you can just push through that initial
fear, then you start to adapt, and
you grow. And all of a sudden, you
(14:15):
have learned something new that you would have never
thought you could do or you could have imagined.
So Yeah. Very neat. And I'm
have surprised myself with moving
beyond stick figure park rangers now and to being able to
sketch something and show it to I don't show them to many people,
(14:38):
but when I do, they a pleasure of
mine was showing the clock tower in
Riverfront Park in Spokane to somebody and they actually recognized it. And
I'm like, hey, it may not be that bad if someone recognized. Okay.
The one place I need to visit, you were talking about the process
that led you to Santa Yeti.
(15:01):
You said you went through your computer, through your story ideas.
And I said, oh, we need to talk about this. So tell me
about this. You have some sort of story inventory, it sounds
like. Alright. So one of the things I try to do
is I do try to journal. Okay? And I I find it
difficult because well, I found it difficult at
(15:23):
first because it feels a little bit like a chore
sometimes. And I found what worked for me was that
every time I do a keynote talk someplace where I'm
sent someplace new, it could be somewhere flashy new like
Dubai, or it could be someplace that
is just regular small town USA,
(15:45):
which usually the most interesting stories come from. But what
I do is when I'm flying back home or I'm driving
back home, I just end up recalling
what happened at the event. And
it's not just walked up on the stage, did a talk to 500
financial advisors and blah. It's usually
(16:08):
there's always some comedy, some
drama that's in there, and then the people you meet and the things you
see. So, usually, these journal entries I write
are very analytical, just this is what happened.
But I end up going back to a lot of these
things for inspiration for characters, you
(16:29):
know, or for situations or worlds. And then I
kinda pick the things that maybe were unique and interesting that happened, and
and then I pull those into a story that maybe
are not about humans, but about ducks or yetis
or robots. But I take the
experience that I happened, and I use those as kind of metaphors
(16:52):
or, you know, analogies or and I pull those into the
stories. And so, you know, thinking about, like, the coldest
place I've ever been to before. And it's a combination between
Saint Petersburg, Russia during the winter years
ago and being in Edmonton, Canada, you know,
for speaking at a game company. And thinking
(17:14):
about, boy, if you lived up here all the time and you were this cold,
you would just wanna get to Brazil or something. You know? And
then you just so I think you have to do a little bit of the
work of just observing life and
recording things that happened to you. You could even just record it, I guess, on
your phone if you wanted. Because the thing is, I don't know if it's me,
(17:37):
but you tend to forget about these moments later on unless
you you write them down. So that's how I kind of
have material to go to later on. And I think
the greatest stories that are told are when people end up
taking moments, usually 2 familiar moments,
2 things that people can relate to, and then they
(18:00):
lend them together. And so you take kind
of a real things that happened to you and then maybe kind of a
make believe set of characters or world and then kinda bring these
together. So that's how I do it. That is really
interesting to hear and to realize these creative
stories about yetis or ducks or robots, they
(18:22):
actually come from elsewhere, from something you saw in
Omaha. Well, it was interesting to hear also
that your time in Edmonton led to an idea.
I spent some time in Fort McMurray, Alberta,
and I don't know if you know where how that is. You so you went
to Edmonton and you thought, wow, this is really far north for
(18:44):
McMurray is 4 and a half hours further north. And I
got there and they said, you really lucked out. You got here
when it's warm. And I said, warm. It's 6
degrees. And they said, yeah, but it was negative 25.
So it was so cold. But I got to go
dog sledding for the first time. I went curling for the first time, and
(19:07):
I saw the northern lights for the first time. So quite the experience. That
is that is cool. But see, those are the things
that you wanna write down or at least record.
So then later on, when you are, you
know, developing a story or, you know, have an
idea, you can pull from those personal experiences. Because,
(19:29):
you know, it really is true when people say write what you
know. So the more you know, you have more material to work with.
Right? And, also, along with writing what you
know is make it personal. And so
I think everybody has these stories,
moments they experience every day. I think the thing is it's
(19:52):
a combination between being too busy, maybe too lazy, maybe too
scared, but we don't write them down.
And you don't have to be a great writer to write
down these moments that happened to you. You just have to get them
down so you don't forget. Yeah. Okay. I may come back
to that because I I have more Okay. To I really like this
(20:14):
idea. But I also wanna make sure we get to talk
about Inside Out 2. One of
the best movies I've seen in a little while, we went as
a family to the movie theater, and I hesitate to
to say anything that might sound bad about Pixar because I love
their movies. But they did seem to have a dip for a
(20:37):
while. And then all of a sudden Inside Out 2
and I felt like, oh, this is the old Pixar. This is like when
Matthew Long was there. It was fabulous. So
why did Inside Out 2 work so well? Alright.
So when you think of the classic
Pixar films, like Monsters Inc and Ratatouille and Up and
(20:59):
the Toy Story ones that the ones that I I worked on, one of
the key factors to making those stories great beyond
the great animation and voice talent and music and all that, there needs to
be a universal theme. There needs to be something in the
story that connects to the hearts of every
person on the planet, every age, every gender, every culture.
(21:21):
And so when you watch the Toy Story movies, and I talk about
this in my book, when you see the Toy Story
movies, they connect with everybody's fear
of abandonment on the planet. What if
I'm not loved anymore? What if I'm no longer needed? What if I get
too old and no one wants me? All the Toy Story films, that was
(21:43):
Woody's story. What if my owner doesn't love me? What if I'm replaced
by a cooler toy? What if I get old and I'm grown out?
Every one of these Pixar films during that
golden age of Pixar had a strong universal theme.
These universal themes are like the desire for safety and security. That
was Finding Nemo. The desire for love, which we can all relate to.
(22:06):
That was WALL E, you know, because that was really a love story. The
desire to choose your own freedom, you know, your own fate.
That was the movie Brave. You know, the girl with the bow and arrow not
wanting to be the queen. And Ratatouille not
wanting to be a rat that just steals but makes food.
The universal themes that were
(22:28):
happening for a couple of the last or I should say the absence
of universal themes that were happening, I mean, the last
couple of Pixar films, I think, is what
made people not go and see them. I mean, there was a lot of other
factors too. The pandemic and people not getting back to movie
theaters. But, you know, just to give an example, the movie Lightyear
(22:50):
that came out. I mean, Buzz Lightyear, he is
probably one of the most recognizable characters animated characters in
the world, but the truth is animated sci fi
films don't do well in the box office. The
reason why WALL E did, though, was because it was a love
story. It was the last robot on earth that wanted to find
(23:12):
someone. That's why people love that movie. Lightyear didn't suit do
so well because it was a purely sci fi
adventure action animated film. You don't really know what
the universal theme was in it. How do I connect to this film? Then we
got inside out too. And you think about since the pandemic
and with the whole election we went through and all
(23:36):
of the concerns we have in life between
AI and the environment and, you know, there's a list that goes on forever. If
you can think of a universal theme that's relatable to all those
things, it's anxiety. And that's what inside out 2
was about. It was the universal dealing with the universal theme
of anxiety and how do you process it,
(23:58):
how do you deal with it. And that's why that film did so
well, because they got back to
something that connects to every person on the planet, which is the
universal theme of anxiety. So that
is important, not only for animated films
or live action films, but that's important for our
(24:20):
communication in every industry, in every business.
When you think about how do we make authentic connections with
people, it's making sure that we're relatable, and
we are using universal themes
to be able to make whatever is important to us
memorable and impactful in person. You led right
(24:42):
into what I was going to going to ask about as you were talking about
this is do you come up with universal
themes for business storytelling? The back of your
book even says bring buzz to the boardroom. So that makes me think,
okay, do you give a presentation in a boardroom with
a universal theme? Absolutely. I mean, when you you
(25:04):
can go through every industry, and you
can find a universal theme in it. So let's just say, for example,
that anything with, like, the health industry or
life insurance or pharmaceutical industry, all that
stuff. I mean, that sounds like that could be very
dry and analytical, but the universal theme is the
(25:26):
desire for safety and security and also
the desire for love to keep the people you love safe and secure. And
if, god forbid, something happens to you, do you have the right life
insurance that is gonna make sure your loved ones are taken
care of? So it's not just a a story
around how much does life insurance
(25:48):
cost. It's the story of taking care of
our loved ones. Right? And then you think about I'm
trying to think of other analytical things. Like, let's pick cybersecurity.
You know? That seems very dry and analytical.
But when you think about what is cybersecurity about, it's about
resilience. It's about having the right
(26:11):
software and the right team to help you predict
the unknown of what's gonna happen in the future. Keep your
data safe. Right? That's about resilience
and being prepared for the unknown. Then all of a
sudden, it opens up this universal theme of everybody
knows that it's important to be prepared
(26:34):
for the unknown, and then we can share all of our most prepared
moments in life and our least prepared moments in life. And I can't remember
if in my book I share my least prepared moment in my
life with my son going up Yosemite
Falls and not being prepared,
thinking to myself as a dad, oh, a bottle of water
(26:56):
and a snack bar split between the 2 of us can get us up
this giant mountain, not realizing it's switchback
trails for 5 hours, and my son hates me when we get to the top.
That was my least prepared moment of my life. I'm actually telling my son it's
okay to drink from the waterfall. You know, we won't get, you know,
some sort of weird bug in our intestines. But that was my worst
(27:19):
prepared moment in my life. And I use that story
whenever I'm talking to people in life
insurance or health insurance about
why it's so important to be prepared to be able
to make sure you have great life insurance in case something bad happens
or you've got a good medical plan in case something bad
(27:41):
happens. Because when you're not prepared when bad things
happen, it it can turn into a disaster. And then the way
I always do it as a storyteller is after I share the worst
example around a universal theme, I shared the
best example. When my son and I went back to Yosemite
Falls, and I comically brought so many bottles
(28:04):
of Gatorade and water and snack bars, and
we left, you know, at 8 AM and had a great experience
because I was prepared. So these stories that we weave
in to even our business pictures will make
them, yes, more entertaining, but also make them
more memorable. Because people are left remembering the story
(28:26):
and remembering the theme or takeaway connected to it, which could
be about being prepared, how to
cope with anxiety, and how to
make life better for the ones you love. Whether it's entertainment or
business. The stories that have a universal theme connected are gonna
connect with the most people in the world. You laid
(28:48):
this out so well on how to use that universal theme
idea in business storytelling. That that is wonderful. And
to realize that no matter what you do, you could
be an electrician or a plumber, but you're not just an
electrician. Right? There is a bigger theme involved in
that. Oh, yeah. No. Definitely. Whether it's entertainment
(29:10):
or or business, I hate to say this, but well, and I don't hate to
say this, but it is the name of my book. The best story wins.
So it really is. Whoever weaves the best story and work.
They win. You know? And I think in the business setting,
what Matthew just said is so relevant because you may
find you have a better product, a better service, but
(29:31):
somebody without that same quality is doing better than you. Why
is that? And it's probably because they're telling a better story.
Absolutely. You mean, this is, you know, this is why you end
up binge watching TV shows, why you
watch that one movie over and over again. It's it's because it had a
great story. And I really see the best
(29:53):
leaders, the best CEOs, the best coaches, the
best teachers, they are storytellers. You know? They
know how to captivate people's attention. Yeah.
Alright. Wonderful. Well, Matthew, I have to tell you one of the reasons I
invited you on the show again is I, in
particular, wanted to talk about the story spine. But here,
(30:15):
we've talked this long already and never got there. So maybe
you come back another time and we talk specifically about that.
Yeah. Sounds good. You know, it's a challenge inviting someone who
makes a living as a storyteller to
not go into different story threads. Well, that's what that's what makes it
on that one. Yeah. Makes it wonderful. And we didn't even get into
(30:38):
your recent road trip with your uncle. I'm sure there's a lot of stories there.
And, of course that next time. Being a park ranger, I always wanna talk about
road trips and parks and recreation. So I think
we have more to talk about. If we wanna find either of your
books or what else you're up to, where can we do that? Well, the
best story wins. You can find it on
(31:00):
Amazon, on online, at probably many different
locations. Right? And so, it's the one with the blue cover
and a light bulb on the front. And then my book,
Santa Yeti, which is, you know, it's
a children's picture book. You can also find that
online, Amazon, Barnes and Noble's, the Santa Yeti
(31:23):
or Santa Yeti. So, yeah, you can find those.
And then you can also find me online, my website,
matthewlunstory.com. Yes. Alright. Well, it's
great to have you back, Matthew, and we won't wait so long. We won't wait
3 years for the next time. Alright. Thank you so much, and thank you for
listening to the Jodi Mayberry Show.
(31:51):
He just likes to hear me talk. It's Sugar Jay.
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Boysober
Have you ever wondered what life might be like if you stopped worrying about being wanted, and focused on understanding what you actually want? That was the question Hope Woodard asked herself after a string of situationships inspired her to take a break from sex and dating. She went "boysober," a personal concept that sparked a global movement among women looking to prioritize themselves over men. Now, Hope is looking to expand the ways we explore our relationship to relationships. Taking a bold, unfiltered look into modern love, romance, and self-discovery, Boysober will dive into messy stories about dating, sex, love, friendship, and breaking generational patterns—all with humor, vulnerability, and a fresh perspective.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com