June 25, 2025 • 14 mins
“Sometimes the best dreams are the ones you didn’t know to dream.”
Notable Moments
00:42 – Favorite memory as a park ranger
02:23 – Top podcast guest experiences
05:47 – Dream projects and the limits of our imagination
08:18 – The value of learning something you don’t understand
09:57 – Quantum physics and expanding your thinking
10:37 – Ken’s approach to researching for documentary films
12:05 – Using AI to prepare for interviews
13:42 – Where to connect with Ken Kebow
Filmmaker Ken Kebow returns to turn the tables and interview Jody Maberry with three personal questions. Jody shares a favorite ranger memory, a special guest experience, and how a surprise expedition to Chile reshaped his idea of dreaming big. The conversation explores curiosity, podcasting, research, quantum physics, and the importance of staying open to the unknown.
Read my blog for more from this episode.
Connect with Ken
The Whimsical Imagineer - The Story Of Rolly Crump
Connect with Jody
About Jody - https://jodymaberry.com/about-jody-maberry/
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LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodymaberry/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/sugarjmaberry/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/jodymaberry
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Foreign
welcome to the Jody Mayberry Show. Last episode,
we had the wonderful filmmaker Ken Kebo as our guest.
And when we have a guest on the Jody Mayberry show, that
guest comes back the very next episode to ask me three questions. And the
questions are not planted by me. They're not encouraged by me.
(00:22):
I have no idea what Ken is going to ask, but I do know that
he's here with us today, and I'm happy about that. Hi, Ken.
How are you doing? Jody, it's good to see you. Yes. Thank you for coming
back to ask three questions, and we will jump right into it. What's your
first question? Well, I've spent hours and hours coming up with the ultimate
question, so I'm going to put you on the spot. Oh, no. Okay. In your
(00:44):
history of being a park ranger, what was the
most incredible experience that stands out from that
part of your life? When you ask that, you could be
wanting this big event that happened. But
what comes to mind is, believe it or not,
morning shifts where I got to go around and open the gates.
(01:07):
I had the entire park to myself at the time. I was at a
park in right on the Idaho, Washington border,
kind of big one, big park. And I got to
just go around and open the gate, and I had to park to myself. And
I would see porcupine and turkey and all the great
wildlife, and I would take a moment and just watch the
(01:28):
sun and look at the. And just realizing there's this
saying that park rangers are paid in sunsets and
sunrises. Well, they say that because they don't pay park rangers very much money.
There is something true to it, though, that we get
these tiny little moments that no one else
gets. And rather than some big moment that happened,
(01:50):
and it is a collection of hundreds, if not thousands of those
little moments that only a park ranger gets. Great
answer. I totally get where you're coming from. Yeah. There's nothing
like solitude and early morning and the lights just coming
up and. Yeah, yeah, good for you. That's a great answer. Well, thank you.
That's a really good answer. Okay, question number two. Who has been.
(02:13):
And this may. This could be an uncomfortable one for you. Who has been
your most interesting guest on your podcast? And
if you don't want to play favorites, maybe your top two or three.
Well, I'll tell you the ones that come to mind right away. That's
usually how I answer these questions. Even if it's not the right answer, it's the
answer I gave, which makes it the right answer. So one of
(02:35):
the first people that comes to mind is an author
from Montana. And I'm not saying this just because you're in Montana, but
Rick Bass. So I discovered Rick Bass's books
when I. On the trip where I was moving
from Illinois to Washington State. And
I cut through Montana, actually, I cut through Canada and then
(02:57):
came down from Waterton national park in the Glacier
National Park. And a waitress in
East Glacier, Montana, stopped at a diner
after backpack, actually before and after backpacking in Glacier
National Park. And she said, if you want to see a special place,
go to Yak Valley. So I did. I went to the Yak
(03:19):
Valley, and it was phenomenal. And then at a
bookstore, I found a book called the Book of Yak by Rick
Bass. Loved it. And then over the years, I've
read all of his books, and I've got to interview Rick
Bass for the Park Leader Show. And
that stands out to me just one, because I loved the
(03:42):
chance to get to talk to him. Two, because how cool
is that to have an author that you've read for so many years
who I may not get to talk to otherwise, although I had met him once
at a book signing in Seattle, but I may not get to talk to in
this way. But I have a podcast which gives a legitimate
reason to talk to people like Rick Bass or Ken Kebo. So to
(04:04):
me, that was really special. And it was through Rick
Bass that I met Doug Peacock and some other great people
because he enjoyed our interview and said, here's some other people you.
You may want to interview and made introductions. So to me, that one.
That one was. Was great. The chance to interview him. And then one
other that stands out is Clay Jenkinson.
(04:27):
He has a podcast. Had a podcast. The name has
changed. It was called the Jefferson Hour. Now it's called Looking for America.
And I think the Jefferson Hour may have been the first
podcast I ever started listening to in 2006. And
then I eventually had him on the show. And. And not only did I have
Clay on the show, I had Clay in
(04:49):
character portraying Theodore Roosevelt.
So as a park ranger interviewing Theodore Roosevelt,
it was just incredible. I loved it. And then the next
episode was Clay in character. And we. I mean, not in
character. He was Clay, and we talked about Theodore Roosevelt.
So to me, that was special, because last episode
(05:10):
you mentioned WTF with Marc Marin. And I remember a
few years ago, it was all over the news. He interviewed
Barack Obama. And I remember thinking, well, so what? I interviewed Theodore
Roosevelt. That's awesome.
I know which podcast of yours I'm going To go back and listen to. Thank
you. I'm going to make those a priority. Okay, last question.
(05:34):
What would be your dream
project if the sky was the limit, Whether it's a
podcast or a trip or what would be
what's always been your dream project to do? I just
learned something, Ken, that sometimes your dream
project, dream trip, dream, whatever
(05:56):
you may not even know about because your mind hasn't
even comprehended that it's there to dream it. Now, here's what I mean.
I haven't talked about it enough on the podcast yet. I got
invited to go on an expedition with the Nature Conservancy
to a place called Puchaguin in southern Chile.
Remote, remote wilderness. And it
(06:19):
turned out to be a dream come true. Except I had never
dreamt it because I had no idea this place
existed. So with that question, I say, okay,
I could tell you a couple of dream projects that I have had, but
this trip to Pucha guinea expanded my thinking to
realize I don't know if I've ever dreamt big enough
(06:42):
because this place was bigger and better than I
could have. I can't even say I could have imagined because I
wouldn't have imagined it. I never thought I would go to Chile. I
never thought I'd go to Patagonia. I didn't even know this place
existed. And then that makes me think if I
did not understand that that existed, there's gotta be
(07:04):
some big bold stuff that I'm able to do that
I do not know is currently out there.
So that's what, what I think about when, when you ask
that I've been lucky enough to spend an
unreasonable amount of time in Glacier national park, my favorite park,
and that's part of what I really enjoy is going to parks.
(07:26):
So when you ask that, I say, okay, well, I'd always thought
the dream trip would be a place like Australia, which I am working
on. I will make that happen. But then the other part is
I had never dreamt of going to southern Chile, and yet
I did. And it turned out to be the most fantastic trip I've ever had.
So I kind of hesitate to answer, to say, ken,
(07:49):
I just don't think I've dreamt big enough to answer that question
in the way I should. That's a great answer. Just to
have that, that, that realization that, oh my gosh,
this is so much more than I ever thought. That's a top
notch trip. I mean, like you say you were excited about going and we chatted
a little bit before you went on the trip. But wow. What a great experience
(08:12):
to realize, wow, this is just so much more than I ever imagined.
Good for you. That's really cool. Yeah, it is amazing. And I will
tell you what. Another thing kind of related, mostly unrelated
to what you asked. I decided to try to learn about something
that I didn't know anything about and I thought my mind couldn't
comprehend. So I've been reading a lot about quantum physics
(08:35):
and that has been fascinating. I still don't understand it
enough to explain it, but it has shown me that
the way I think about things is not big
enough. If you can't comprehend quantum physics, which I can't,
then you haven't thought big enough yet. Isn't it
great to. And I. I try to do the same stuff. To throw yourself into
(08:57):
something you know nothing about, because, you know,
understanding and grasping it. But there's always little pieces. And I'm sure you're
finding that with the physics that you. Oh, yeah. I've always wondered
about that. And here's the answer. I'm the same way. I just. I like to
kind of involve myself, at least on a surface level, into new things because I
think it just kind of helps your thinking and the way you perceive things.
(09:19):
So good for you. And I'm a huge reader. I could spend all day reading
books. So I got to kind of temper that. But there's nothing better than a.
A good book and a cozy chair to read it in. Yeah, that's. That's right.
I will say, though, reading quantum physics will make your head hurt. It is
just too much. I usually read books about conservation
or biographies or things like that. So I just
(09:41):
finished a book about quantum physics. Now I will go back to
my regularly scheduled reading for a little while.
That's your reward. Well, good for you. I haven't even touched a book on quantum
physics. Can't promise you that I will, but good for you. I admire you,
especially getting through it. My goodness. It's a
lot like walking through mud because it is so deep.
(10:03):
And I may never understand it enough to
talk to anyone else about it, but I do enjoy mulling it over in
my own head and trying to grasp it. Well, Ken, these were
really fun questions, and I have one for you before we go. When
you take on a project like the monsters
movie doc that you just did, Ken gave me permission last
(10:25):
episode to say doc, so I wouldn't have to say documentary, because I have trouble
with that word when it comes to the monsters. Your
pre research, how much of it involves reading Books
a lot. Yeah, actually, quite a bit. And surprisingly, there's not
a lot of out there about the universal monsters. I mean, there is some,
but not as many as much as I would have thought. You know, a lot
(10:47):
of the reading will be about what I'm talking about, but also
I wanted to know more about Sarah Caroff before I met her, so, you know,
I could ask her some questions about her and her dad and growing
up with him and all that. And same about Ron Chaney. So not only the
topic matter, but I think it's helpful to try and get to know the person
you're interviewing as well. So a lot of reading. Thank goodness for the
(11:08):
Internet. Boy, talk about making it easy to research, because I've done these
for, boy, almost 30 years, and a lot of time was spent in the
library with Microfish, you know, and a lot of your listeners may not know what
that is, but they're not missing anything. Yeah, the Internet's just been an
incredible tool for. For finding things like Antonio, who's in the I told you
about in the monster movie in our episode we did previously. Just stumbled
(11:30):
across her on the Internet. And I can honestly say she is one of the,
if not the star of the monster doc, and I would have never known about
her if I hadn't stumbled on to her own show. So, yeah,
it's. Yeah, you can't do enough research for this kind of stuff. I mean, it's.
Yeah, you got to really dive in and just go for it. And thus, back
to square one. Do something you're passionate about, because if you're not
(11:50):
passionate about it, you'll lose interest really quick. So, yeah, I am a
monster. A monster nerd. Which that can be
taken in a couple different ways, Ken. Let me rephrase that.
A universal monster fan.
All right. You know, one thing I've been experimenting with
on research is, you know, you. You can take a AI model,
(12:13):
like chat GPT and have conversations with it. You don't have to type. You
can talk and it'll talk back. And I will have con.
I did not do this, but let's say I could, which
I. Because I could. If I need to do research on you, I
can just start by having a conversation with AI about
you and tell me about Ken Kibo, and then it'll tell me something. I'll say,
(12:35):
oh, that's kind of interesting. So I'll ask more about a particular detail. And
I have found conversations with AI are
great prep work. I wouldn't say it's the only prep work to do
because it doesn't have everything. It can sometimes have
artificial opinions, sometimes can give you things that aren't true.
But it is a great place to start to just have a conversation
(12:57):
with AI to lead you to places that
you may not have thought of yourself. I never thought of that.
That's a great idea. I can't imagine. That's gotta be an
incredible tool. Thank you for that. Yeah, I've never thought about. I think
I'm so dialed into my old ways of doing thing and I gotta embrace AI,
like it or not. That makes a lot of sense. I bet you discover some
(13:19):
interesting things using that as a tool. Yeah, it's right. It's kind of like having
a friend that has read every article and books and
films and just knows things. You just have to be careful that
your friend might make something up here and there. It happens.
Take it with a grain of salt. That's really cool. That a go.
(13:39):
All right, Ken, where can we connect with you again?
Yeah, my website is. My name K E N K E b as in
bob o w kenkebo.com. but that's got all my video work and
some stuff about my career, some links to some of the shows. So if people
are interested, I'd love them to visit the website and go from
there. All right. Thanks for coming back, Ken. And next time
(14:01):
we do an episode together, we'll be side by side in Montana. Always
a pleasure, Jody. I look forward to seeing you up here. Thank you. Hello, and
thank you for listening to the Jody Mayberry Show.
I've told him before to watch out for those drop bears under those gum trees.
(14:21):
It's Sugar J.
Foreign
welcome to the Jody Mayberry Show. Last episode,
we had the wonderful filmmaker Ken Kebo as our guest.
And when we have a guest on the Jody Mayberry show, that
guest comes back the very next episode to ask me three questions. And the
questions are not planted by me. They're not encouraged by me.
(00:22):
I have no idea what Ken is going to ask, but I do know that
he's here with us today, and I'm happy about that. Hi, Ken.
How are you doing? Jody, it's good to see you. Yes. Thank you for coming
back to ask three questions, and we will jump right into it. What's your
first question? Well, I've spent hours and hours coming up with the ultimate
question, so I'm going to put you on the spot. Oh, no. Okay. In your
(00:44):
history of being a park ranger, what was the
most incredible experience that stands out from that
part of your life? When you ask that, you could be
wanting this big event that happened. But
what comes to mind is, believe it or not,
morning shifts where I got to go around and open the gates.
(01:07):
I had the entire park to myself at the time. I was at a
park in right on the Idaho, Washington border,
kind of big one, big park. And I got to
just go around and open the gate, and I had to park to myself. And
I would see porcupine and turkey and all the great
wildlife, and I would take a moment and just watch the
(01:28):
sun and look at the. And just realizing there's this
saying that park rangers are paid in sunsets and
sunrises. Well, they say that because they don't pay park rangers very much money.
There is something true to it, though, that we get
these tiny little moments that no one else
gets. And rather than some big moment that happened,
(01:50):
and it is a collection of hundreds, if not thousands of those
little moments that only a park ranger gets. Great
answer. I totally get where you're coming from. Yeah. There's nothing
like solitude and early morning and the lights just coming
up and. Yeah, yeah, good for you. That's a great answer. Well, thank you.
That's a really good answer. Okay, question number two. Who has been.
(02:13):
And this may. This could be an uncomfortable one for you. Who has been
your most interesting guest on your podcast? And
if you don't want to play favorites, maybe your top two or three.
Well, I'll tell you the ones that come to mind right away. That's
usually how I answer these questions. Even if it's not the right answer, it's the
answer I gave, which makes it the right answer. So one of
(02:35):
the first people that comes to mind is an author
from Montana. And I'm not saying this just because you're in Montana, but
Rick Bass. So I discovered Rick Bass's books
when I. On the trip where I was moving
from Illinois to Washington State. And
I cut through Montana, actually, I cut through Canada and then
(02:57):
came down from Waterton national park in the Glacier
National Park. And a waitress in
East Glacier, Montana, stopped at a diner
after backpack, actually before and after backpacking in Glacier
National Park. And she said, if you want to see a special place,
go to Yak Valley. So I did. I went to the Yak
(03:19):
Valley, and it was phenomenal. And then at a
bookstore, I found a book called the Book of Yak by Rick
Bass. Loved it. And then over the years, I've
read all of his books, and I've got to interview Rick
Bass for the Park Leader Show. And
that stands out to me just one, because I loved the
(03:42):
chance to get to talk to him. Two, because how cool
is that to have an author that you've read for so many years
who I may not get to talk to otherwise, although I had met him once
at a book signing in Seattle, but I may not get to talk to in
this way. But I have a podcast which gives a legitimate
reason to talk to people like Rick Bass or Ken Kebo. So to
(04:04):
me, that was really special. And it was through Rick
Bass that I met Doug Peacock and some other great people
because he enjoyed our interview and said, here's some other people you.
You may want to interview and made introductions. So to me, that one.
That one was. Was great. The chance to interview him. And then one
other that stands out is Clay Jenkinson.
(04:27):
He has a podcast. Had a podcast. The name has
changed. It was called the Jefferson Hour. Now it's called Looking for America.
And I think the Jefferson Hour may have been the first
podcast I ever started listening to in 2006. And
then I eventually had him on the show. And. And not only did I have
Clay on the show, I had Clay in
(04:49):
character portraying Theodore Roosevelt.
So as a park ranger interviewing Theodore Roosevelt,
it was just incredible. I loved it. And then the next
episode was Clay in character. And we. I mean, not in
character. He was Clay, and we talked about Theodore Roosevelt.
So to me, that was special, because last episode
(05:10):
you mentioned WTF with Marc Marin. And I remember a
few years ago, it was all over the news. He interviewed
Barack Obama. And I remember thinking, well, so what? I interviewed Theodore
Roosevelt. That's awesome.
I know which podcast of yours I'm going To go back and listen to. Thank
you. I'm going to make those a priority. Okay, last question.
(05:34):
What would be your dream
project if the sky was the limit, Whether it's a
podcast or a trip or what would be
what's always been your dream project to do? I just
learned something, Ken, that sometimes your dream
project, dream trip, dream, whatever
(05:56):
you may not even know about because your mind hasn't
even comprehended that it's there to dream it. Now, here's what I mean.
I haven't talked about it enough on the podcast yet. I got
invited to go on an expedition with the Nature Conservancy
to a place called Puchaguin in southern Chile.
Remote, remote wilderness. And it
(06:19):
turned out to be a dream come true. Except I had never
dreamt it because I had no idea this place
existed. So with that question, I say, okay,
I could tell you a couple of dream projects that I have had, but
this trip to Pucha guinea expanded my thinking to
realize I don't know if I've ever dreamt big enough
(06:42):
because this place was bigger and better than I
could have. I can't even say I could have imagined because I
wouldn't have imagined it. I never thought I would go to Chile. I
never thought I'd go to Patagonia. I didn't even know this place
existed. And then that makes me think if I
did not understand that that existed, there's gotta be
(07:04):
some big bold stuff that I'm able to do that
I do not know is currently out there.
So that's what, what I think about when, when you ask
that I've been lucky enough to spend an
unreasonable amount of time in Glacier national park, my favorite park,
and that's part of what I really enjoy is going to parks.
(07:26):
So when you ask that, I say, okay, well, I'd always thought
the dream trip would be a place like Australia, which I am working
on. I will make that happen. But then the other part is
I had never dreamt of going to southern Chile, and yet
I did. And it turned out to be the most fantastic trip I've ever had.
So I kind of hesitate to answer, to say, ken,
(07:49):
I just don't think I've dreamt big enough to answer that question
in the way I should. That's a great answer. Just to
have that, that, that realization that, oh my gosh,
this is so much more than I ever thought. That's a top
notch trip. I mean, like you say you were excited about going and we chatted
a little bit before you went on the trip. But wow. What a great experience
(08:12):
to realize, wow, this is just so much more than I ever imagined.
Good for you. That's really cool. Yeah, it is amazing. And I will
tell you what. Another thing kind of related, mostly unrelated
to what you asked. I decided to try to learn about something
that I didn't know anything about and I thought my mind couldn't
comprehend. So I've been reading a lot about quantum physics
(08:35):
and that has been fascinating. I still don't understand it
enough to explain it, but it has shown me that
the way I think about things is not big
enough. If you can't comprehend quantum physics, which I can't,
then you haven't thought big enough yet. Isn't it
great to. And I. I try to do the same stuff. To throw yourself into
(08:57):
something you know nothing about, because, you know,
understanding and grasping it. But there's always little pieces. And I'm sure you're
finding that with the physics that you. Oh, yeah. I've always wondered
about that. And here's the answer. I'm the same way. I just. I like to
kind of involve myself, at least on a surface level, into new things because I
think it just kind of helps your thinking and the way you perceive things.
(09:19):
So good for you. And I'm a huge reader. I could spend all day reading
books. So I got to kind of temper that. But there's nothing better than a.
A good book and a cozy chair to read it in. Yeah, that's. That's right.
I will say, though, reading quantum physics will make your head hurt. It is
just too much. I usually read books about conservation
or biographies or things like that. So I just
(09:41):
finished a book about quantum physics. Now I will go back to
my regularly scheduled reading for a little while.
That's your reward. Well, good for you. I haven't even touched a book on quantum
physics. Can't promise you that I will, but good for you. I admire you,
especially getting through it. My goodness. It's a
lot like walking through mud because it is so deep.
(10:03):
And I may never understand it enough to
talk to anyone else about it, but I do enjoy mulling it over in
my own head and trying to grasp it. Well, Ken, these were
really fun questions, and I have one for you before we go. When
you take on a project like the monsters
movie doc that you just did, Ken gave me permission last
(10:25):
episode to say doc, so I wouldn't have to say documentary, because I have trouble
with that word when it comes to the monsters. Your
pre research, how much of it involves reading Books
a lot. Yeah, actually, quite a bit. And surprisingly, there's not
a lot of out there about the universal monsters. I mean, there is some,
but not as many as much as I would have thought. You know, a lot
(10:47):
of the reading will be about what I'm talking about, but also
I wanted to know more about Sarah Caroff before I met her, so, you know,
I could ask her some questions about her and her dad and growing
up with him and all that. And same about Ron Chaney. So not only the
topic matter, but I think it's helpful to try and get to know the person
you're interviewing as well. So a lot of reading. Thank goodness for the
(11:08):
Internet. Boy, talk about making it easy to research, because I've done these
for, boy, almost 30 years, and a lot of time was spent in the
library with Microfish, you know, and a lot of your listeners may not know what
that is, but they're not missing anything. Yeah, the Internet's just been an
incredible tool for. For finding things like Antonio, who's in the I told you
about in the monster movie in our episode we did previously. Just stumbled
(11:30):
across her on the Internet. And I can honestly say she is one of the,
if not the star of the monster doc, and I would have never known about
her if I hadn't stumbled on to her own show. So, yeah,
it's. Yeah, you can't do enough research for this kind of stuff. I mean, it's.
Yeah, you got to really dive in and just go for it. And thus, back
to square one. Do something you're passionate about, because if you're not
(11:50):
passionate about it, you'll lose interest really quick. So, yeah, I am a
monster. A monster nerd. Which that can be
taken in a couple different ways, Ken. Let me rephrase that.
A universal monster fan.
All right. You know, one thing I've been experimenting with
on research is, you know, you. You can take a AI model,
(12:13):
like chat GPT and have conversations with it. You don't have to type. You
can talk and it'll talk back. And I will have con.
I did not do this, but let's say I could, which
I. Because I could. If I need to do research on you, I
can just start by having a conversation with AI about
you and tell me about Ken Kibo, and then it'll tell me something. I'll say,
(12:35):
oh, that's kind of interesting. So I'll ask more about a particular detail. And
I have found conversations with AI are
great prep work. I wouldn't say it's the only prep work to do
because it doesn't have everything. It can sometimes have
artificial opinions, sometimes can give you things that aren't true.
But it is a great place to start to just have a conversation
(12:57):
with AI to lead you to places that
you may not have thought of yourself. I never thought of that.
That's a great idea. I can't imagine. That's gotta be an
incredible tool. Thank you for that. Yeah, I've never thought about. I think
I'm so dialed into my old ways of doing thing and I gotta embrace AI,
like it or not. That makes a lot of sense. I bet you discover some
(13:19):
interesting things using that as a tool. Yeah, it's right. It's kind of like having
a friend that has read every article and books and
films and just knows things. You just have to be careful that
your friend might make something up here and there. It happens.
Take it with a grain of salt. That's really cool. That a go.
(13:39):
All right, Ken, where can we connect with you again?
Yeah, my website is. My name K E N K E b as in
bob o w kenkebo.com. but that's got all my video work and
some stuff about my career, some links to some of the shows. So if people
are interested, I'd love them to visit the website and go from
there. All right. Thanks for coming back, Ken. And next time
(14:01):
we do an episode together, we'll be side by side in Montana. Always
a pleasure, Jody. I look forward to seeing you up here. Thank you. Hello, and
thank you for listening to the Jody Mayberry Show.
I've told him before to watch out for those drop bears under those gum trees.
(14:21):
It's Sugar J.
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