Amilah Baksh from Laurier’s Faculty of Social Work shares her holistic approach to education, which acknowledges the significance of positionality and identity and invites both educators and students to bring their entire selves into the classroom. Amilah discusses how establishing classroom community guidelines sets a foundation for respectful and supportive discussions on challenging topics. Explore how Amilah incorporates critical reflective journals as activities to encourage students to develop deep, personal introspection and insight into their experiences, perspectives, and cultural backgrounds.
Laurier’s Donald F. Morgenson Awards for Teaching Excellence honour those who, through their commitment to exemplary teaching, have made significant contributions to the educational experience of Laurier students. Learn more about award-winning teaching at Laurier.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Laurier's Teaching Excellence Conversation series.
I'm Debora VanNijnatten, Academic Director of Teaching Excellence and Innovation at Wilfrid Laurier University.
Today, I'm with Amilah Baksh from Laurier's Faculty of Social Work, who received the 2023 Early Career Excellence Award.
Amilah has a deep commitment to inclusive teaching practices and takes an innovative approach
(00:25):
that looks to create spaces for her students to engage in their own development,
leading them to transformational outcomes.
Amilah's contributions go beyond her classroom to make deeply rooted changes in how her students see one another and the world around them.
And I'm excited to talk to her today. I'm so glad to be here with you today, Amilah.
(01:10):
And I want to talk a little bit first about where you draw inspiration for your teaching,
because not only are you teaching in the social work program,
you're also a practicing social worker, and you've been in a number of roles, mental health, justice, you know, a few different areas.
So I wonder if you could talk about how that has shaped your teaching practice, because that's, you know, very unique.
(01:34):
Yeah, Thank you. I think it's, you know, in the Faculty of Social Work,
it's pretty common for a lot of us to have or continue that practice of social work as we're teaching.
I think it shapes my teaching in very obvious ways, in the sense that the way I approach teaching is kind of like how I approach social work practice,
(01:55):
which is rooted in a strong relationship, rooted in love ethic, something that bell hooks kind of refers to as love ethic.
So deep compassion,
care and respect for service users is something that I try to bring into the classroom in the sense of treating students or learners as equals,
(02:15):
engaging in non-hierarchical relationships with them. So that parallel is very much there.
When I was reading your dossier, I was really drawn to a passage from your teaching philosophy where just to follow up with something from bell hooks.
You say that your approach has been deeply influenced by hooks, who wrote that "... as a classroom community,
(02:37):
our capacity to generate excitement is deeply affected by our interest in one
another, in hearing one another's voices and in recognizing one another's presence."
Right. And then you go on and you talk about how important communication and connection is in the classroom.
Those things are really linked, of course. So how do you bring students into deep communication with one another?
(03:03):
The kind of fundamental social work skills that we teach, kind of like social work 101,
if you want to think about it that way is all about communication, right?
So active listening, listening with empathy, listening with an intent to hear what someone's saying as opposed to kind of what many of us typically do,
which is just formulate the next thing that we want to say. Right? So those are the kind of that's a good way of putting it.
(03:25):
Yeah. And those are the kind of skills we're teaching students, but also modelling and practicing in the classroom.
The classroom is really a place that that social work practice can start.
So one of the classes I teach, Practice with Individuals, right from the get go.
We start in with what do we need from one another to make this a space where we can really do that work?
(03:49):
You know, many of many of us in the Faculty of Social Work and beyond to use these kind of community guidelines or, you know,
foundations for creating braver or safer spaces in the classroom, you're creating a brave space where people can be vulnerable, right?
Yeah, Yeah, exactly. So, you know, there's the usual kind of what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas sort of rule.
(04:12):
But, you know, notions of confidentiality are very important to social work practice as well.
So just like we have that in social work practice, we model that in the classroom,
that if someone is sharing something, we're not talking about it outside of the classroom space.
We're not telling other people who are not in that class.
So these are the things that also really parallel, again, social work practice that it's important for everyone to learn those kinds of skills.
(04:38):
How do you respect confidentiality in meaningful ways?
How do you show someone respect through your listening?
And I think it's really interesting because obviously respect shows up very differently for different people.
For some, it's, you know, respect is not being able to disagree like I respect what you have to say, so I'm not going to disagree with you.
(04:58):
So there are things that we kind of try and push back on a little bit as we're engaging with that those community guidelines, too.
So so walk me through so you're starting a new class, you've got a new group of students.
How do you set those community guidelines? Right, Because I think a lot of faculty think a lot about this.
How do I set just the right tone where people can truly learn and share and get to know one another?
(05:25):
And as I said, be vulnerable. What do you do to to get that established?
Well, I think right from right from the get go, there are a few kind of things that I pull from that really influence my teaching philosophy.
And so the three kind of primary, I'll say,
if you want to say branches of theory or if you want to say just life philosophies are my own religious and spiritual beliefs as a Muslim person.
(05:49):
For Muslims, education is something that is rooted in respect.
So right from the get go, students walk in the door.
There is respect, compassion, a welcoming of the whole person, which also branches into the next influence, which is.
Indigenous holistic theory and philosophy. Again, a really holistic approach to education and to the classroom that views students as whole people.
(06:15):
We're not just engaging with the neck above the head with cognitive engagement, we're engaging with spirit,
with people's mental health and well-being, where that comes into the classroom and shapes people's experience.
And then of course, as I mentioned before, like bell hooks,
but Black Feminist Theory and Critical Feminist Theories that allow for that standpoint that, you know, I'm a subjective person, right?
(06:41):
My experience, my worldview is shaped by my positionality.
I have a standpoint. So right when students walk in the door, I'm acknowledging that. I'm sharing of myself.
You know, when I do that land acknowledgment, I situate myself.
I situate my relationship with the land. What is my kind of ancestral history?
What is my ... what is the history that brings me to social work practice?
(07:04):
So right away there is this self-disclosure, this bringing of my whole self into the classroom,
and then engaging in, for example, circle pedagogy, which comes from Indigenous pedagogy,
allowing each student to engage without interruption with the option for passing or not engaging, without any crosstalk,
(07:26):
any interruptions to really talk about what do you need from this space, what do you want from this space?
And that usually sets us off on a on a pretty good foot. So how do students respond to that right away when you do that?
Right. I think there is always, you know, the kind of first day energy, but typically it's very well-received.
(07:47):
I think students really appreciate being given the space to contribute as opposed to being told what is going to happen in this classroom.
And obviously, you know, I still come in with my syllabus. There is still a fair amount of direction given, but they also have a chance,
an opportunity to talk to me and talk to one another about what do they really need again,
(08:09):
from me and from each other to show up in this space and really learn?
Is it different in a class with somewhat larger enrollment?
For example, like a lot of our colleagues think, you know,
how do I adapt what's working great in a small class environment to more students just to still make people feel part of this open,
(08:32):
transparent, inclusive, brave space that you do have?
Yeah, I think that's that's one of the kind of blessings of the teaching of the Faculty of Social Work.
You know, I teach in undergrad and graduate studies, and in our graduate studies, I believe the cap is like 25.
Yes. So, we some have pretty small classrooms where we can do circle pedagogy in really beautiful,
meaningful ways, because everybody we have that time, everybody can contribute and not feel rushed.
(08:57):
I think in larger classrooms there are ways to do things like, you know,
the think-pair-share or like smaller group and bringing it back to a larger group,
right where you can have students engage with one another and then engage back with the classroom as a whole.
The professor in ways, that's great advice.
(09:18):
Yeah, I mean, it is challenging. I've taught I've taught larger classes as well and it's it's not always possible in the same way.
But I think again, students really feel when there is that intentionality there of including them and bringing them into the conversation.
So I want to come back just a little bit to, you know,
you talking about how you you want to ensure that students are bringing their whole self to the classroom.
(09:44):
Right. And they're not just individuals.
They are operating within a system there's certain expectations.
How do you adapt your teaching to respond to different needs?
Right. You know,
I think the current teaching context right now is one in which students are coming to us with different sort of parcels that they're carrying.
(10:09):
Right. How do you do that in the classroom? How do you respond to those differences in the class?
Yeah, I think there are there are two kind of questions that I hear there.
One is sort of the, you know, coming back post-pandemic, which we were talking about.
Yeah. How do we respond to reentering this space that we're all so familiar with?
What has really changed fundamentally?
(10:31):
And I think that there is a lot to be said about what we learned as educators during COVID and how that can be brought forward.
So I think the biggest pieces for me have been flexibility. Right?
And this this ties to so many things that are being talked about right now in
terms of decolonizing education and how we make education really accessible.
(10:55):
You know, one of the things that I've learned primarily from students with different needs and and, you know,
coming from critical disability studies and that lens is do we really need the rigidity
of due dates and deadlines and things that just increase and enhance students' anxiety?
One phrase that I came up with that I always tell my students is I want your best work, not your stressed work, right?
(11:20):
Because in social work and social work, you know, we're teaching students how to engage with service users.
And so, you know, how can I be an effective educator if I'm not also modelling that same kind of empathy and affirmation
for students themselves that I want them to model with their or engage with with their service users?
(11:42):
Right. Right. So I think, you know, flexibility has been so important.
I'm a big supporter of ungrading and thinking about how we can do that meaningfully
in ways that still hold us to academic rigor and scholarly engagement,
but create opportunities for students to engage deeply as opposed to being focused on am I going to get an A on this assignment?
(12:09):
Am I going to achieve all these learning objectives and then forget it the second I walk out the classroom door, Right?
Because this is about, you know, social work obviously, is a professional degree program.
We're teaching students to be social workers.
So it's not you know, we don't have exams, which is another thing that I love about teaching in the Faculty of Social Work.
We don't do exams because they're, you know, that's not going to be what's most helpful to you in practice, right?
(12:34):
Can you remember these dates or this person's name or, you know, that kind of detail?
It's can you do this work? Can you engage relationally with someone, make them feel listened to and heard?
Yeah, to focus on mastery as opposed to, you know, what grade did you get?
Exactly. So so I think modelling all of that in sort of this post-pandemic re-entry into quote unquote "normal teaching",
(12:55):
which we said is obviously not not really on the table. Oh, no, not anymore.
I don't think so.
Another thing in your dossier is that you talk about the the importance of critically engaged pedagogy, and you do this in different ways.
And I love, for example, the way you use the critical reflection journal.
Yeah. And you're so honest about it in your dossier because you say students sometimes come to this like, why do I have to do this?
(13:21):
What am I getting out of this? Right. Can you talk a little bit about the critical reflection journals?
Because this is something I think our colleagues would love to hear about.
Yeah, Thank you. I think, you know, obviously, we know critical pedagogy,
the kind of Freirean approach to that type of sort of alternative to the banking model of education.
(13:41):
Right. Where we're really calling on students to reflect on their own experiences,
Think about how am I a person in this world shaped by the systems around me,
shaped by oppressive, dominant forces around me, and how do I participate in that?
So that's something that for future social workers is so important because social work as a field historically and currently is,
(14:06):
can be a very oppressive force in itself. You know, a large history of social control and again, kind of current manifestations of that.
This is not just something that's historic or past. Students have to situate themselves in that professional
context and really understand how do all parts of me impact this work that I'm going to be doing right?
(14:28):
How do all parts of me react to, for example, seeing someone like me at the front of the room?
Right. That's been a big piece of something that I've had to engage with as an educator is students receive things differently from me.
And so when I talk about my own critical reflexivity in the classroom, that's part of what I bring forward to kind of, again, model.
(14:49):
How can students really attend to, oh, you know,
a service user might not respond well to the fact that I speak with accented English
or might not respond well to the fact that I am a member of the queer community.
Right. So I think it's important to be very honest about those things so students have a chance to reflect and really think about again.
(15:11):
What does this mean for the work that I may be doing? How do they respond to that? You know, it's hit and miss.
It is. It is indeed hit and miss. I have I would say the vast majority of students really love it.
Really appreciate that I'm honest about about my practice.
I'm honest about, you know, missteps that I do some of that critical reflexivity with them.
(15:32):
There are, you know, some students who who will react not so positively to this.
For example, I had a student express that Amilah makes everything about race, and this was in a class that was titled Race, Crime and Gender.
And so it struck me as very indicative of the fact that, you know.
(15:56):
There are students whose worldviews are going to be challenged by the content of what we're talking about.
Any time you bring social justice content, you bring anti-oppressive of content, anti-racist content into the classroom.
There is a risk that this is going to be deeply challenging to people's worldviews because people feel on the defensive, right?
(16:17):
So how do the critical reflection journals help? That's what I was thinking.
Yeah. Yes, exactly. So the critical Reflection Journal is a space for students to engage in those those thoughts,
that questioning that interrogation of their own personal beliefs, biases, internalized stuff.
Let's say that we pick up from from society around us, right?
(16:39):
That all of us pick up. But to do so in a way that is private, it is a conversation between me and them.
No one else sees these and no one else grades them.
So especially for students who are a bit more hesitant to do this engagement in the classroom setting.
It works really well because you still have this space to engage with what you're reading, what we're talking about.
(17:01):
But you don't have to, let's say, run the risk of feeling that shame or guilt in the classroom setting or feeling
on the defensive because of what classmates or myself might be sharing.
And do you set a few questions to help them kind of start engaging in self-reflection because it's a practice.
(17:24):
It's not something that necessarily comes easy. Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. And one of the things I always tell my students is that this is a practice that you need to take into your social work practice.
Right. So I do get going now. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. So and it's a skill. It's a skill. And like any skill, it's something that can be enhanced through practice.
(17:46):
Right. So, yeah, I often give them questions, and the questions I give them tend to focus not just again,
on the cognitive aspects of, you know, what did you learn today.
Right. Although that's important, but including things like how did you feel?
How did you respond? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. What were your embodied responses?
(18:07):
What did you notice coming up for you? And I talk about, for example, when I talk about anything to do with anti-racism in practice,
I talk about the responses of guilt or denial or zoning out.
Right. So right away, even in the question, I'm normalizing some of that.
Right. So they don't have to feel Recognizing you may be feeling this exact.
(18:29):
Okay, so let's talk about it or write about it. Yeah, yeah, write about it.
Is it handwritten or are they typing? I've done both.
I have done handwritten sort of at the end of class that it's kind of a journal entry that you just submit and then you're done.
Yeah, that I really liked because it was not only easy for students to just kind of
(18:51):
do something in class and then be done with it and not have to think about it.
But we know that, you know, handwriting something actually activates a different part of your brain.
Yeah, exactly. So, of course, again, since COVID, some of that had to shift.
Right? Right. And so we still held it as something now that can be done as a more typically as an assignment like that you type up and submit.
(19:15):
But I still encourage them to do it kind of within the week so that they're reflecting on the content and on how they've been feeling.
And actually that has worked well because a lot of students will reflect not just immediately after class but into the next few days.
Right. And they're still thinking about certain things that have come up. So I think allowing more space has actually worked well, too.
(19:37):
Can I shift a little bit but keeping in mind what you're saying about the critical reflection journals, case studies.
So case studies are a wonderful way to really show students what you know,
how you apply some of the conceptual material that you're thinking, that the theoretical and philosophical material to real life.
(20:06):
Yeah, right. Yeah. And you use a lot of case study work, which again, works very works very well for training social workers.
Right? Yeah. But talk a little bit about how you use case studies in the classroom.
Yeah. Again, like you said, I think I think it's important to remember that social work is a professional degree program.
So even as we're engaging with these, you know, big theories, I always bring it back to
(20:31):
And what does this mean for practice? What happens if? Exactly. Exactly.
So what do you do with this content that you're learning? Right.
So I always tell students any case study I bring in they're real.
They're they're either cases I've worked with cases colleagues have worked with, of course, with details changed to protect confidentiality.
But these are real things that we come across in practice. And so how are you going to use the theories that we've been talking about
(20:56):
to inform the work that you're doing? While attending to some of the critical reflection pieces.
So you are reading through this case study immediately. I'm calling students attention to
Okay, you have maybe a little paragraph or maybe a full page. What is your mind
what kind of blanks are being filled in by your mind?
What are you starting to assume? And I'll have students talk through that.
(21:19):
Right, Because that's a good indication of where we might need to do some of that critical reflection work.
Right? Right. And then I have students think through what needs to be done, what other systems need to be engaged.
What is the work that needs to happen individually? But how is that micro?
In social work, we say micro content shaped by the macro shaped by the systemic forces.
(21:42):
Right. So again, kind of encouraging students to think both on the around the work that they themselves are doing, but also the limitations.
Acknowledging the reality of social work in the field.
Right. Is so shaped by the structural forces around us slowly.
Yeah, it's very clear from all of the reference letters, you bring a lot of care to the classroom.
(22:06):
Right. And outside of the classroom. Right.
So it's not just the subject matter, but it's how you interact with the students and how you support them.
Right. Talk a little bit about how you do that and how it was impacted by the pandemic, because being very hands on and, you know.
(22:27):
providing support in so many different ways.
It looks different when you go online. Oh, yeah. And then as we talked about before, then it looks different yet again as we're back.
Right. So maybe you could reflect a little bit on that.
Yeah, I think, you know, it was I always tried to bring the energy of social work into the classroom.
(22:48):
And so sometimes that meant students would feel more comfortable sharing things with me, sometimes in office hours in one-on-one meetings,
things that they might not share with an educator outside of the context of social work.
Right. And I think that, again, part of that is due to the nature of what we're talking about.
Students will, of course, reflect on their own life stories, their own mental health experiences, things like that.
(23:13):
Right. So very consciously. Yeah. So so some of that content sort of, let's say, gets activated by the material we're covering in class.
So I think being able to support students again within the boundaries of being very clear,
just because I am a social worker, it doesn't mean I'm your social worker.
And I think that that's, you know, that distinction and that boundary is very important.
(23:35):
Right. But, you know, being available to just talk to students about how things are going,
those kinds of check ins before or after class or in office hours can be so meaningful to really, again, making students feel held.
And I don't necessarily want to say safe, but feeling that sense of respect and love that comes from being in a program like this.
(24:02):
You have also contributed quite substantially outside the classroom, and I'm referring here to your work in building the NIRE community.
So and I believe that stands for Normalizing Intercultural Relationships in Education,
and that provides a protected space for students who might be experiencing isolation, racism.
(24:23):
So maybe you could talk a little bit about that. Yeah. So NIRE started actually well before I began teaching in the faculty.
It was initiated by international students who are primarily from African nations who were experiencing a
great deal of isolation and also discrimination from classmates and colleagues and from instructors as well.
(24:47):
And so NIRE started as a way to kind of bridge this gap that international students were noticing between themselves and domestic students.
And so they were doing wonderful things like they had put on the equity certificates that students could attend,
all students to try to get raise awareness on the part of all communities.
Yes, exactly. Exactly. So it was always open to all students.
(25:10):
But when I started, what I noticed was that the work that NIRE was doing was also being done in other places.
So, for example, NIRE sits under the equity committee, which is a kind of more broader structure within the faculty, right?
And so there was a lot of overlap in the work that was being done.
(25:31):
But what I noticed was that there was also this missing piece of support for students
who were specifically still experiencing these things racism in the classroom,
isolation, which was especially worsened during COVID because these students are only in class together.
They're not getting that lunchtime time or time in the halls, time time on break from classes or things to develop that relationship.
(25:58):
So there was a lot of isolation and it was really impacting racialized students, especially Black students,
because at the time that I started NIRE, we were still kind of coming out of this summer of remarkable reawakening around issues of racial justice,
(26:19):
issues of anti-black racism, the murder of George Floyd, which had taken place that summer,
and then kind of led to this resurgence of Black Lives Matter was weighing heavily on a lot of Black and racialized students. Spaces, too.
Absolutely. And unfortunately, as faculty was trying to engage with this content in classrooms,
(26:39):
there was still a lot of lack of understanding and a lot of harm created in classroom spaces where
students who were not black were trying to work through and understand some of what was going on.
But unfortunately,
what ends up happening is and what ended up happening in this case was that Black students and racialized students were harmed by that learning.
(27:00):
So you have students kind of, you know, making various stereotypical prejudicial comments that Black students are then having to experience,
having to sit through and watch other people's learning and growth while being harmed by that learning and growth.
Right. So so NIRE started. How do you address that I mean, it's a huge question.
(27:20):
But yeah, I mean, I think there is there's there's two things that we have to consider, there's what's happening in the classroom.
When those comments are made, where again, we go back to some of the community guidelines that at the very beginning.
Right. Seting the boundaries and the norms.
Yeah. And being able to interrupt those things when they happen and do something that we do in social work practice,
(27:44):
which is stop the content and attend to the process, attend to what's happening in the moment.
Right. And there are the things that happen outside of the classroom space, like NIRE.
So students being able to process some of this, some of these harms, some of these experiences away from an outside of the white gaze.
Right. So a lot of the Black students who participate in the NIRE talked about how important it was for them to have a
(28:09):
space where they could be angry and not be perceived through this stereotypical lens of the angry Black woman.
That was so,
so important because they had to be validated in these emotions and couldn't experience that validation when there were other students who felt fear,
fear or threats because of that. Right, Right.
(28:32):
So what is a valid emotional response to some of that racial harm then gets perceived
through a stereotypical lens and ends up kind of creating further distance between students,
creating harm, disrupting the kind of community development of the cohort as a whole.
So NIRE became this space where students could let down their guard and racialized students
(28:57):
could build community with one another and be affirmed in their experience and be,
you know, encouraged to think critically, do that critical reflection of their own right.
It's been so successful that other groups of students are modelling that creating new affinity spaces,
(29:18):
rights for the disabled and for queer identifying
students. Yes. So you've got these different things happening in different places within the faculty.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think I mean, I can't take credit for all of that because obviously I know I didn't come up with the idea of affinity spaces,
so I'm not going to take credit for that. But I think that, you know, NIRE was such a, such a beautiful community was created.
(29:44):
You know, we we and again, this was created with the cohort that did almost their entire two years of graduate studies online.
I think they had roughly three months together. Two or three months.
So difficult. Yeah. Very, very challenging establishing connections after that.
Mm hmm. Yeah, Incredibly difficult. Yeah. And, you know, they've graduated since, and I'm still aware that many of them are still connected.
(30:10):
And so that's been something beautiful to see as well, that there is still that connection that last two years after they've graduated,
that they are still in relationship with one another. You know, I think I think a lot of our colleagues would ask you,
what's one thing I could do to make my classroom more inclusive, to make it a safe, protected space, a brave space, you know?
(30:38):
Yeah. What would you what would you say that. That's a big question.
It is. It is. But even getting started. Right. And I know our colleagues think a lot about this, but what's you know, or give us a few things.
I think to me, the biggest thing and this is probably the biggest learning that I've had in my few
years as an educator in this space is being brave enough ourselves to be vulnerable,
(31:03):
number one. And number two, so you're modelling that. Yeah, and to to be able to intervene.
I think a lot of times our own kind of emotional state gets activated by something.
Oh, no, exactly. Yeah. What do I do now? Yes. Yeah.
And rather than saying. You know, pause Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Let's. Let's stop. Let's engage.
(31:26):
And so we do two things. We we kind of step back and then things continue to maybe actually get a little bit.
Yeah, degenerate a little bit. Yeah.
So we step back, we kind of take our hands off or we step back and shut things down so that there is no learning that can come out of that.
No further dialogue. Exactly. And so in either case, students are either left dysregulated or left with a lot of questions.
(31:52):
And I think that and I'm still learning this, still working on this.
This is definitely, again, a skill that can be built.
But how do you actively engage in times when emotions are high?
And again, one of the things we know about learning psychology is that you can't learn when emotions are high,
so you have to attend to the emotions in the room before you can continue with class,
(32:16):
before you can continue with content, you have to be able to attend to process. That's really helpful.
Um, one of the things I was thinking about is you have really experimented with so many things already.
When you say the few years you've been teaching, but you've already, you know,
(32:37):
you're using various teaching approaches, you're innovating, you're working in really challenging places.
What do you want to try next? What do I want to try next?
I think one of the things that I would really like to push myself in thinking about and in enacting in classroom spaces,
because I will say I've been thinking about it for a long time,
(32:59):
but in terms of it manifesting in the classroom is decolonizing approaches to education, right?
So again, how do we actually meaningfully bring this into the classroom without, you know, co-opting Indigenous cultural approaches and methods,
but in in ways that can really decolonize, again, not only the education in the classroom,
(33:21):
what we're doing in that space together, but also our social work practice, because these are, again, parallels,
right, of what's happening in the classroom and what are students going to bring forward into their social work practice.
And we come full circle where we started with your interview.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So that's next. And the PhD! And the PhD, that's right.
(33:43):
Yes. So we haven't even talked about because you're also working on your PhD.
Yes. Yes, I am. So how are you managing? How are you balance, balancing all of that keeping?
I think that, you know, again,
social work is one of those fields where we really need educators who are skilled in social work practice but are also skilled in education,
(34:05):
in critical pedagogy, in engaging students.
So trying to achieve that balance is is a little bit tricky while also trying to, you know, uphold the standards of academia.
And if I want to be doing this full time, I need that PhD.
Right? But my own research is centered around gendered Islamophobia and social work education.
So reflecting on some of those pieces that I mentioned of how students respond to me as an educator,
(34:31):
how students engage with me, how my presence in the classroom itself is a bit disruptive and a bit unnerving for some.
You know, I have had students share that not only am I the first Muslim person they've seen at the front of a classroom, but I've had some share
I'm the first Muslim person they've ever met. That's incredible.
Yeah. So so it's a it's a tall order. And I was going to say, that's a lot of pressure on you.
(34:55):
Yeah. Yeah. So that's something that through my dissertation, I hope to explore.
I hope to engage with other Muslim educators around how does our identity shape
the work that we do and the way that we engage students in the classroom?
Well, we look forward to hearing more about your academic work in this field, but also learning from you in terms of your teaching practice.
(35:16):
Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you.
My thanks to Amilah Baksh for joining me today, and I hope you will join me for more conversations that celebrate exceptional teaching practices,
explore diverse teaching philosophies, and discuss the future of higher education and learning.
Welcome to Laurier's Teaching Excellence Conversation series.
I'm Debora VanNijnatten, Academic Director of Teaching Excellence and Innovation at Wilfrid Laurier University.
Today, I'm with Amilah Baksh from Laurier's Faculty of Social Work, who received the 2023 Early Career Excellence Award.
Amilah has a deep commitment to inclusive teaching practices and takes an innovative approach
(00:25):
that looks to create spaces for her students to engage in their own development,
leading them to transformational outcomes.
Amilah's contributions go beyond her classroom to make deeply rooted changes in how her students see one another and the world around them.
And I'm excited to talk to her today. I'm so glad to be here with you today, Amilah.
(01:10):
And I want to talk a little bit first about where you draw inspiration for your teaching,
because not only are you teaching in the social work program,
you're also a practicing social worker, and you've been in a number of roles, mental health, justice, you know, a few different areas.
So I wonder if you could talk about how that has shaped your teaching practice, because that's, you know, very unique.
(01:34):
Yeah, Thank you. I think it's, you know, in the Faculty of Social Work,
it's pretty common for a lot of us to have or continue that practice of social work as we're teaching.
I think it shapes my teaching in very obvious ways, in the sense that the way I approach teaching is kind of like how I approach social work practice,
(01:55):
which is rooted in a strong relationship, rooted in love ethic, something that bell hooks kind of refers to as love ethic.
So deep compassion,
care and respect for service users is something that I try to bring into the classroom in the sense of treating students or learners as equals,
(02:15):
engaging in non-hierarchical relationships with them. So that parallel is very much there.
When I was reading your dossier, I was really drawn to a passage from your teaching philosophy where just to follow up with something from bell hooks.
You say that your approach has been deeply influenced by hooks, who wrote that "... as a classroom community,
(02:37):
our capacity to generate excitement is deeply affected by our interest in one
another, in hearing one another's voices and in recognizing one another's presence."
Right. And then you go on and you talk about how important communication and connection is in the classroom.
Those things are really linked, of course. So how do you bring students into deep communication with one another?
(03:03):
The kind of fundamental social work skills that we teach, kind of like social work 101,
if you want to think about it that way is all about communication, right?
So active listening, listening with empathy, listening with an intent to hear what someone's saying as opposed to kind of what many of us typically do,
which is just formulate the next thing that we want to say. Right? So those are the kind of that's a good way of putting it.
(03:25):
Yeah. And those are the kind of skills we're teaching students, but also modelling and practicing in the classroom.
The classroom is really a place that that social work practice can start.
So one of the classes I teach, Practice with Individuals, right from the get go.
We start in with what do we need from one another to make this a space where we can really do that work?
(03:49):
You know, many of many of us in the Faculty of Social Work and beyond to use these kind of community guidelines or, you know,
foundations for creating braver or safer spaces in the classroom, you're creating a brave space where people can be vulnerable, right?
Yeah, Yeah, exactly. So, you know, there's the usual kind of what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas sort of rule.
(04:12):
But, you know, notions of confidentiality are very important to social work practice as well.
So just like we have that in social work practice, we model that in the classroom,
that if someone is sharing something, we're not talking about it outside of the classroom space.
We're not telling other people who are not in that class.
So these are the things that also really parallel, again, social work practice that it's important for everyone to learn those kinds of skills.
(04:38):
How do you respect confidentiality in meaningful ways?
How do you show someone respect through your listening?
And I think it's really interesting because obviously respect shows up very differently for different people.
For some, it's, you know, respect is not being able to disagree like I respect what you have to say, so I'm not going to disagree with you.
(04:58):
So there are things that we kind of try and push back on a little bit as we're engaging with that those community guidelines, too.
So so walk me through so you're starting a new class, you've got a new group of students.
How do you set those community guidelines? Right, Because I think a lot of faculty think a lot about this.
How do I set just the right tone where people can truly learn and share and get to know one another?
(05:25):
And as I said, be vulnerable. What do you do to to get that established?
Well, I think right from right from the get go, there are a few kind of things that I pull from that really influence my teaching philosophy.
And so the three kind of primary, I'll say,
if you want to say branches of theory or if you want to say just life philosophies are my own religious and spiritual beliefs as a Muslim person.
(05:49):
For Muslims, education is something that is rooted in respect.
So right from the get go, students walk in the door.
There is respect, compassion, a welcoming of the whole person, which also branches into the next influence, which is.
Indigenous holistic theory and philosophy. Again, a really holistic approach to education and to the classroom that views students as whole people.
(06:15):
We're not just engaging with the neck above the head with cognitive engagement, we're engaging with spirit,
with people's mental health and well-being, where that comes into the classroom and shapes people's experience.
And then of course, as I mentioned before, like bell hooks,
but Black Feminist Theory and Critical Feminist Theories that allow for that standpoint that, you know, I'm a subjective person, right?
(06:41):
My experience, my worldview is shaped by my positionality.
I have a standpoint. So right when students walk in the door, I'm acknowledging that. I'm sharing of myself.
You know, when I do that land acknowledgment, I situate myself.
I situate my relationship with the land. What is my kind of ancestral history?
What is my ... what is the history that brings me to social work practice?
(07:04):
So right away there is this self-disclosure, this bringing of my whole self into the classroom,
and then engaging in, for example, circle pedagogy, which comes from Indigenous pedagogy,
allowing each student to engage without interruption with the option for passing or not engaging, without any crosstalk,
(07:26):
any interruptions to really talk about what do you need from this space, what do you want from this space?
And that usually sets us off on a on a pretty good foot. So how do students respond to that right away when you do that?
Right. I think there is always, you know, the kind of first day energy, but typically it's very well-received.
(07:47):
I think students really appreciate being given the space to contribute as opposed to being told what is going to happen in this classroom.
And obviously, you know, I still come in with my syllabus. There is still a fair amount of direction given, but they also have a chance,
an opportunity to talk to me and talk to one another about what do they really need again,
(08:09):
from me and from each other to show up in this space and really learn?
Is it different in a class with somewhat larger enrollment?
For example, like a lot of our colleagues think, you know,
how do I adapt what's working great in a small class environment to more students just to still make people feel part of this open,
(08:32):
transparent, inclusive, brave space that you do have?
Yeah, I think that's that's one of the kind of blessings of the teaching of the Faculty of Social Work.
You know, I teach in undergrad and graduate studies, and in our graduate studies, I believe the cap is like 25.
Yes. So, we some have pretty small classrooms where we can do circle pedagogy in really beautiful,
meaningful ways, because everybody we have that time, everybody can contribute and not feel rushed.
(08:57):
I think in larger classrooms there are ways to do things like, you know,
the think-pair-share or like smaller group and bringing it back to a larger group,
right where you can have students engage with one another and then engage back with the classroom as a whole.
The professor in ways, that's great advice.
(09:18):
Yeah, I mean, it is challenging. I've taught I've taught larger classes as well and it's it's not always possible in the same way.
But I think again, students really feel when there is that intentionality there of including them and bringing them into the conversation.
So I want to come back just a little bit to, you know,
you talking about how you you want to ensure that students are bringing their whole self to the classroom.
(09:44):
Right. And they're not just individuals.
They are operating within a system there's certain expectations.
How do you adapt your teaching to respond to different needs?
Right. You know,
I think the current teaching context right now is one in which students are coming to us with different sort of parcels that they're carrying.
(10:09):
Right. How do you do that in the classroom? How do you respond to those differences in the class?
Yeah, I think there are there are two kind of questions that I hear there.
One is sort of the, you know, coming back post-pandemic, which we were talking about.
Yeah. How do we respond to reentering this space that we're all so familiar with?
What has really changed fundamentally?
(10:31):
And I think that there is a lot to be said about what we learned as educators during COVID and how that can be brought forward.
So I think the biggest pieces for me have been flexibility. Right?
And this this ties to so many things that are being talked about right now in
terms of decolonizing education and how we make education really accessible.
(10:55):
You know, one of the things that I've learned primarily from students with different needs and and, you know,
coming from critical disability studies and that lens is do we really need the rigidity
of due dates and deadlines and things that just increase and enhance students' anxiety?
One phrase that I came up with that I always tell my students is I want your best work, not your stressed work, right?
(11:20):
Because in social work and social work, you know, we're teaching students how to engage with service users.
And so, you know, how can I be an effective educator if I'm not also modelling that same kind of empathy and affirmation
for students themselves that I want them to model with their or engage with with their service users?
(11:42):
Right. Right. So I think, you know, flexibility has been so important.
I'm a big supporter of ungrading and thinking about how we can do that meaningfully
in ways that still hold us to academic rigor and scholarly engagement,
but create opportunities for students to engage deeply as opposed to being focused on am I going to get an A on this assignment?
(12:09):
Am I going to achieve all these learning objectives and then forget it the second I walk out the classroom door, Right?
Because this is about, you know, social work obviously, is a professional degree program.
We're teaching students to be social workers.
So it's not you know, we don't have exams, which is another thing that I love about teaching in the Faculty of Social Work.
We don't do exams because they're, you know, that's not going to be what's most helpful to you in practice, right?
(12:34):
Can you remember these dates or this person's name or, you know, that kind of detail?
It's can you do this work? Can you engage relationally with someone, make them feel listened to and heard?
Yeah, to focus on mastery as opposed to, you know, what grade did you get?
Exactly. So so I think modelling all of that in sort of this post-pandemic re-entry into quote unquote "normal teaching",
(12:55):
which we said is obviously not not really on the table. Oh, no, not anymore.
I don't think so.
Another thing in your dossier is that you talk about the the importance of critically engaged pedagogy, and you do this in different ways.
And I love, for example, the way you use the critical reflection journal.
Yeah. And you're so honest about it in your dossier because you say students sometimes come to this like, why do I have to do this?
(13:21):
What am I getting out of this? Right. Can you talk a little bit about the critical reflection journals?
Because this is something I think our colleagues would love to hear about.
Yeah, Thank you. I think, you know, obviously, we know critical pedagogy,
the kind of Freirean approach to that type of sort of alternative to the banking model of education.
(13:41):
Right. Where we're really calling on students to reflect on their own experiences,
Think about how am I a person in this world shaped by the systems around me,
shaped by oppressive, dominant forces around me, and how do I participate in that?
So that's something that for future social workers is so important because social work as a field historically and currently is,
(14:06):
can be a very oppressive force in itself. You know, a large history of social control and again, kind of current manifestations of that.
This is not just something that's historic or past. Students have to situate themselves in that professional
context and really understand how do all parts of me impact this work that I'm going to be doing right?
(14:28):
How do all parts of me react to, for example, seeing someone like me at the front of the room?
Right. That's been a big piece of something that I've had to engage with as an educator is students receive things differently from me.
And so when I talk about my own critical reflexivity in the classroom, that's part of what I bring forward to kind of, again, model.
(14:49):
How can students really attend to, oh, you know,
a service user might not respond well to the fact that I speak with accented English
or might not respond well to the fact that I am a member of the queer community.
Right. So I think it's important to be very honest about those things so students have a chance to reflect and really think about again.
(15:11):
What does this mean for the work that I may be doing? How do they respond to that? You know, it's hit and miss.
It is. It is indeed hit and miss. I have I would say the vast majority of students really love it.
Really appreciate that I'm honest about about my practice.
I'm honest about, you know, missteps that I do some of that critical reflexivity with them.
(15:32):
There are, you know, some students who who will react not so positively to this.
For example, I had a student express that Amilah makes everything about race, and this was in a class that was titled Race, Crime and Gender.
And so it struck me as very indicative of the fact that, you know.
(15:56):
There are students whose worldviews are going to be challenged by the content of what we're talking about.
Any time you bring social justice content, you bring anti-oppressive of content, anti-racist content into the classroom.
There is a risk that this is going to be deeply challenging to people's worldviews because people feel on the defensive, right?
(16:17):
So how do the critical reflection journals help? That's what I was thinking.
Yeah. Yes, exactly. So the critical Reflection Journal is a space for students to engage in those those thoughts,
that questioning that interrogation of their own personal beliefs, biases, internalized stuff.
Let's say that we pick up from from society around us, right?
(16:39):
That all of us pick up. But to do so in a way that is private, it is a conversation between me and them.
No one else sees these and no one else grades them.
So especially for students who are a bit more hesitant to do this engagement in the classroom setting.
It works really well because you still have this space to engage with what you're reading, what we're talking about.
(17:01):
But you don't have to, let's say, run the risk of feeling that shame or guilt in the classroom setting or feeling
on the defensive because of what classmates or myself might be sharing.
And do you set a few questions to help them kind of start engaging in self-reflection because it's a practice.
(17:24):
It's not something that necessarily comes easy. Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. And one of the things I always tell my students is that this is a practice that you need to take into your social work practice.
Right. So I do get going now. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. So and it's a skill. It's a skill. And like any skill, it's something that can be enhanced through practice.
(17:46):
Right. So, yeah, I often give them questions, and the questions I give them tend to focus not just again,
on the cognitive aspects of, you know, what did you learn today.
Right. Although that's important, but including things like how did you feel?
How did you respond? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. What were your embodied responses?
(18:07):
What did you notice coming up for you? And I talk about, for example, when I talk about anything to do with anti-racism in practice,
I talk about the responses of guilt or denial or zoning out.
Right. So right away, even in the question, I'm normalizing some of that.
Right. So they don't have to feel Recognizing you may be feeling this exact.
(18:29):
Okay, so let's talk about it or write about it. Yeah, yeah, write about it.
Is it handwritten or are they typing? I've done both.
I have done handwritten sort of at the end of class that it's kind of a journal entry that you just submit and then you're done.
Yeah, that I really liked because it was not only easy for students to just kind of
(18:51):
do something in class and then be done with it and not have to think about it.
But we know that, you know, handwriting something actually activates a different part of your brain.
Yeah, exactly. So, of course, again, since COVID, some of that had to shift.
Right? Right. And so we still held it as something now that can be done as a more typically as an assignment like that you type up and submit.
(19:15):
But I still encourage them to do it kind of within the week so that they're reflecting on the content and on how they've been feeling.
And actually that has worked well because a lot of students will reflect not just immediately after class but into the next few days.
Right. And they're still thinking about certain things that have come up. So I think allowing more space has actually worked well, too.
(19:37):
Can I shift a little bit but keeping in mind what you're saying about the critical reflection journals, case studies.
So case studies are a wonderful way to really show students what you know,
how you apply some of the conceptual material that you're thinking, that the theoretical and philosophical material to real life.
(20:06):
Yeah, right. Yeah. And you use a lot of case study work, which again, works very works very well for training social workers.
Right? Yeah. But talk a little bit about how you use case studies in the classroom.
Yeah. Again, like you said, I think I think it's important to remember that social work is a professional degree program.
So even as we're engaging with these, you know, big theories, I always bring it back to
(20:31):
And what does this mean for practice? What happens if? Exactly. Exactly.
So what do you do with this content that you're learning? Right.
So I always tell students any case study I bring in they're real.
They're they're either cases I've worked with cases colleagues have worked with, of course, with details changed to protect confidentiality.
But these are real things that we come across in practice. And so how are you going to use the theories that we've been talking about
(20:56):
to inform the work that you're doing? While attending to some of the critical reflection pieces.
So you are reading through this case study immediately. I'm calling students attention to
Okay, you have maybe a little paragraph or maybe a full page. What is your mind
what kind of blanks are being filled in by your mind?
What are you starting to assume? And I'll have students talk through that.
(21:19):
Right, Because that's a good indication of where we might need to do some of that critical reflection work.
Right? Right. And then I have students think through what needs to be done, what other systems need to be engaged.
What is the work that needs to happen individually? But how is that micro?
In social work, we say micro content shaped by the macro shaped by the systemic forces.
(21:42):
Right. So again, kind of encouraging students to think both on the around the work that they themselves are doing, but also the limitations.
Acknowledging the reality of social work in the field.
Right. Is so shaped by the structural forces around us slowly.
Yeah, it's very clear from all of the reference letters, you bring a lot of care to the classroom.
(22:06):
Right. And outside of the classroom. Right.
So it's not just the subject matter, but it's how you interact with the students and how you support them.
Right. Talk a little bit about how you do that and how it was impacted by the pandemic, because being very hands on and, you know.
(22:27):
providing support in so many different ways.
It looks different when you go online. Oh, yeah. And then as we talked about before, then it looks different yet again as we're back.
Right. So maybe you could reflect a little bit on that.
Yeah, I think, you know, it was I always tried to bring the energy of social work into the classroom.
(22:48):
And so sometimes that meant students would feel more comfortable sharing things with me, sometimes in office hours in one-on-one meetings,
things that they might not share with an educator outside of the context of social work.
Right. And I think that, again, part of that is due to the nature of what we're talking about.
Students will, of course, reflect on their own life stories, their own mental health experiences, things like that.
(23:13):
Right. So very consciously. Yeah. So so some of that content sort of, let's say, gets activated by the material we're covering in class.
So I think being able to support students again within the boundaries of being very clear,
just because I am a social worker, it doesn't mean I'm your social worker.
And I think that that's, you know, that distinction and that boundary is very important.
(23:35):
Right. But, you know, being available to just talk to students about how things are going,
those kinds of check ins before or after class or in office hours can be so meaningful to really, again, making students feel held.
And I don't necessarily want to say safe, but feeling that sense of respect and love that comes from being in a program like this.
(24:02):
You have also contributed quite substantially outside the classroom, and I'm referring here to your work in building the NIRE community.
So and I believe that stands for Normalizing Intercultural Relationships in Education,
and that provides a protected space for students who might be experiencing isolation, racism.
(24:23):
So maybe you could talk a little bit about that. Yeah. So NIRE started actually well before I began teaching in the faculty.
It was initiated by international students who are primarily from African nations who were experiencing a
great deal of isolation and also discrimination from classmates and colleagues and from instructors as well.
(24:47):
And so NIRE started as a way to kind of bridge this gap that international students were noticing between themselves and domestic students.
And so they were doing wonderful things like they had put on the equity certificates that students could attend,
all students to try to get raise awareness on the part of all communities.
Yes, exactly. Exactly. So it was always open to all students.
(25:10):
But when I started, what I noticed was that the work that NIRE was doing was also being done in other places.
So, for example, NIRE sits under the equity committee, which is a kind of more broader structure within the faculty, right?
And so there was a lot of overlap in the work that was being done.
(25:31):
But what I noticed was that there was also this missing piece of support for students
who were specifically still experiencing these things racism in the classroom,
isolation, which was especially worsened during COVID because these students are only in class together.
They're not getting that lunchtime time or time in the halls, time time on break from classes or things to develop that relationship.
(25:58):
So there was a lot of isolation and it was really impacting racialized students, especially Black students,
because at the time that I started NIRE, we were still kind of coming out of this summer of remarkable reawakening around issues of racial justice,
(26:19):
issues of anti-black racism, the murder of George Floyd, which had taken place that summer,
and then kind of led to this resurgence of Black Lives Matter was weighing heavily on a lot of Black and racialized students. Spaces, too.
Absolutely. And unfortunately, as faculty was trying to engage with this content in classrooms,
(26:39):
there was still a lot of lack of understanding and a lot of harm created in classroom spaces where
students who were not black were trying to work through and understand some of what was going on.
But unfortunately,
what ends up happening is and what ended up happening in this case was that Black students and racialized students were harmed by that learning.
(27:00):
So you have students kind of, you know, making various stereotypical prejudicial comments that Black students are then having to experience,
having to sit through and watch other people's learning and growth while being harmed by that learning and growth.
Right. So so NIRE started. How do you address that I mean, it's a huge question.
(27:20):
But yeah, I mean, I think there is there's there's two things that we have to consider, there's what's happening in the classroom.
When those comments are made, where again, we go back to some of the community guidelines that at the very beginning.
Right. Seting the boundaries and the norms.
Yeah. And being able to interrupt those things when they happen and do something that we do in social work practice,
(27:44):
which is stop the content and attend to the process, attend to what's happening in the moment.
Right. And there are the things that happen outside of the classroom space, like NIRE.
So students being able to process some of this, some of these harms, some of these experiences away from an outside of the white gaze.
Right. So a lot of the Black students who participate in the NIRE talked about how important it was for them to have a
(28:09):
space where they could be angry and not be perceived through this stereotypical lens of the angry Black woman.
That was so,
so important because they had to be validated in these emotions and couldn't experience that validation when there were other students who felt fear,
fear or threats because of that. Right, Right.
(28:32):
So what is a valid emotional response to some of that racial harm then gets perceived
through a stereotypical lens and ends up kind of creating further distance between students,
creating harm, disrupting the kind of community development of the cohort as a whole.
So NIRE became this space where students could let down their guard and racialized students
(28:57):
could build community with one another and be affirmed in their experience and be,
you know, encouraged to think critically, do that critical reflection of their own right.
It's been so successful that other groups of students are modelling that creating new affinity spaces,
(29:18):
rights for the disabled and for queer identifying
students. Yes. So you've got these different things happening in different places within the faculty.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think I mean, I can't take credit for all of that because obviously I know I didn't come up with the idea of affinity spaces,
so I'm not going to take credit for that. But I think that, you know, NIRE was such a, such a beautiful community was created.
(29:44):
You know, we we and again, this was created with the cohort that did almost their entire two years of graduate studies online.
I think they had roughly three months together. Two or three months.
So difficult. Yeah. Very, very challenging establishing connections after that.
Mm hmm. Yeah, Incredibly difficult. Yeah. And, you know, they've graduated since, and I'm still aware that many of them are still connected.
(30:10):
And so that's been something beautiful to see as well, that there is still that connection that last two years after they've graduated,
that they are still in relationship with one another. You know, I think I think a lot of our colleagues would ask you,
what's one thing I could do to make my classroom more inclusive, to make it a safe, protected space, a brave space, you know?
(30:38):
Yeah. What would you what would you say that. That's a big question.
It is. It is. But even getting started. Right. And I know our colleagues think a lot about this, but what's you know, or give us a few things.
I think to me, the biggest thing and this is probably the biggest learning that I've had in my few
years as an educator in this space is being brave enough ourselves to be vulnerable,
(31:03):
number one. And number two, so you're modelling that. Yeah, and to to be able to intervene.
I think a lot of times our own kind of emotional state gets activated by something.
Oh, no, exactly. Yeah. What do I do now? Yes. Yeah.
And rather than saying. You know, pause Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Let's. Let's stop. Let's engage.
(31:26):
And so we do two things. We we kind of step back and then things continue to maybe actually get a little bit.
Yeah, degenerate a little bit. Yeah.
So we step back, we kind of take our hands off or we step back and shut things down so that there is no learning that can come out of that.
No further dialogue. Exactly. And so in either case, students are either left dysregulated or left with a lot of questions.
(31:52):
And I think that and I'm still learning this, still working on this.
This is definitely, again, a skill that can be built.
But how do you actively engage in times when emotions are high?
And again, one of the things we know about learning psychology is that you can't learn when emotions are high,
so you have to attend to the emotions in the room before you can continue with class,
(32:16):
before you can continue with content, you have to be able to attend to process. That's really helpful.
Um, one of the things I was thinking about is you have really experimented with so many things already.
When you say the few years you've been teaching, but you've already, you know,
(32:37):
you're using various teaching approaches, you're innovating, you're working in really challenging places.
What do you want to try next? What do I want to try next?
I think one of the things that I would really like to push myself in thinking about and in enacting in classroom spaces,
because I will say I've been thinking about it for a long time,
(32:59):
but in terms of it manifesting in the classroom is decolonizing approaches to education, right?
So again, how do we actually meaningfully bring this into the classroom without, you know, co-opting Indigenous cultural approaches and methods,
but in in ways that can really decolonize, again, not only the education in the classroom,
(33:21):
what we're doing in that space together, but also our social work practice, because these are, again, parallels,
right, of what's happening in the classroom and what are students going to bring forward into their social work practice.
And we come full circle where we started with your interview.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So that's next. And the PhD! And the PhD, that's right.
(33:43):
Yes. So we haven't even talked about because you're also working on your PhD.
Yes. Yes, I am. So how are you managing? How are you balance, balancing all of that keeping?
I think that, you know, again,
social work is one of those fields where we really need educators who are skilled in social work practice but are also skilled in education,
(34:05):
in critical pedagogy, in engaging students.
So trying to achieve that balance is is a little bit tricky while also trying to, you know, uphold the standards of academia.
And if I want to be doing this full time, I need that PhD.
Right? But my own research is centered around gendered Islamophobia and social work education.
So reflecting on some of those pieces that I mentioned of how students respond to me as an educator,
(34:31):
how students engage with me, how my presence in the classroom itself is a bit disruptive and a bit unnerving for some.
You know, I have had students share that not only am I the first Muslim person they've seen at the front of a classroom, but I've had some share
I'm the first Muslim person they've ever met. That's incredible.
Yeah. So so it's a it's a tall order. And I was going to say, that's a lot of pressure on you.
(34:55):
Yeah. Yeah. So that's something that through my dissertation, I hope to explore.
I hope to engage with other Muslim educators around how does our identity shape
the work that we do and the way that we engage students in the classroom?
Well, we look forward to hearing more about your academic work in this field, but also learning from you in terms of your teaching practice.
(35:16):
Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you.
My thanks to Amilah Baksh for joining me today, and I hope you will join me for more conversations that celebrate exceptional teaching practices,
explore diverse teaching philosophies, and discuss the future of higher education and learning.
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