April 25, 2025 • 34 mins
Marybeth White from Laurier’s Religion and Culture Department and recipient of the 2024 Sustained Excellence Teaching Award, shares insights on fostering a student-centered learning environment grounded in compassion, flexibility and inclusive design.
Marybeth discusses the changes she’s seen in students throughout her career, including what students are better at now than when she started and what they need more support on. She reflects on how teaching is a continual process of learning and adaptation, responding to the evolving needs of students through flexibility and innovation. Marybeth shares ways she’s creatively reimagined her course design to focus on essential takeaways and diverse assessment methods, such as quizzes, reflective journals, presentations, and an optional final exam based on a student’s individual learning journey. Marybeth explores the importance of creating brave spaces for discussion and how she encourages students to engage critically and compassionately with diverse perspectives as keys to growth, as well as how she uses Universal Design principles to provide multiple ways for students to demonstrate their learning.
Laurier’s Donald F. Morgenson Awards for Teaching Excellence honour those who, through their commitment to exemplary teaching, have made significant contributions to the educational experience of Laurier students. Learn more about award-winning teaching at Laurier: https://bit.ly/award-winning-faculty
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
[Auto-generated transcript. Edits may have been applied for clarity.]Welcome to Laurier's Teaching Excellence Conversation series.
I'm Debora VanNijnatten and Academic Director of Teaching Excellence and Innovation at Wilfrid Laurier University.
And today, I'm with Marybeth White from the Religion and Culture Department in the Faculty of Arts,
who received the 2024 Sustained Excellence Award in the part-time category.
(00:21):
Marybeth has been teaching as a part-time contract faculty member at Laurier for more than 18 years,
and her passion for creating a nurturing and engaging learning environment shines through in her teaching practice.
She works to foster inclusive classrooms, teach diverse course materials,
and expand students perspectives on the course material and the world by integrating diverse assessment
(00:44):
methods such as reflective journal exercises and optional final exams for first year students.
Marybeth demonstrates a deep commitment to reducing student stress and promoting inclusivity.
I'm very excited to talk with her today.
[uplifting music plays]
(01:21):
Well, Marybeth, thank you so much for joining us here today.
You are a sustained excellence winner. You've taught at Laurier for 18, 19 years now? Almost 20 this year.
What are some of the most significant changes that you've observed in students over the years?
You know, today's students, what do they seem to take on more easily than earlier students or, alternatively,
(01:48):
what do they struggle with more than earlier cohorts did? So what have you kind of seen over time?
Part of what I've seen in the positive feature of students nowadays is their willingness to be forthcoming.
They do knock on doors, they do ask questions, they do challenge.
(02:08):
And I think this is in a positive way. I think it's good that they advocate for themselves and they seem to know how to support themselves.
Not all students, but I see the majority of students are well disciplined in moving through and advocating for themselves.
So that's the benefit. Some of the struggles I see that, I wonder, could it possibly be through social media?
(02:35):
It's reading. That's the first and foremost. I don't feel that the students really read what I've put on courses.
As they're required reading.We hear that a lot.
So that I see as a problem or a challenge, I guess.
And then one of the other things that some students seem to struggle a little bit more with are deadlines.
(02:59):
I see deadline and completing things on time, so I've tried to shift my focus to accommodate for that.
But deadlines seem to be pressing. But part of that, I think, is also previous years.
Like if I go back 20 years, students who are attending university were just attending university.
(03:20):
I hear from my students, a lot of them have two jobs. Not just one other part-time job,
but some of them are working more than one job to try and pay for their schooling.
So I understand the readings and the deadlines being more challenging.
When you are not a full-time student dedicated to just doing that
you've also got other employment issues that you're balancing.
(03:44):
Yeah, and certainly if I think about change over time as well,
the role that education plays in the lives of students and also how they view education is a little bit more instrumentalist, right?
It's not the educational experience itself. It's a means to an end.
(04:06):
So then we kind of think, how does that impact the way that we design our course materials, etc.
So then how have you responded to this over time? So, you know, on the positive side, right,
the students willing to, you know, put themselves out there and to engage and to challenge.
So what does that mean in terms of course design or classroom activities for you?
(04:26):
A different approach. I feel when I started teaching,
I offered what I guess I would call like a constellation approach where I'd gather beautiful materials I thought were beautiful,
and I put them all together, and somehow the students would recognize that there's this common theme. That they're beautiful.
And we could have discussions about them. And I think a lot of that was because that's how I was a graduate and undergraduate student.
(04:55):
So now my teaching really is far more focused.
It's like, okay, what do I want the students to have as their takeaway.
So I do think in terms of takeaway, what is it that when they leave my classroom,
they have with them in their pocket or in their toolbox, that's something that they can build on later in life.
(05:16):
So that is definitely my course outlines,
the way I designed the course is far more compact.
The readings I've cut so many compared to 20 years ago
what I had them reading. So it's really the essentials,
and I look for a lot of resources that are articles as opposed to chapters or books now.
(05:37):
Just to try and keep things compact.
So that's, that's a massive change that I've made to the way I approach teaching for where they're coming in
they need to hold on to something and they need to leave.
And as you're saying, it's far more for employment purposes, not for
(06:00):
the older thinking of higher education as a place to think.
Of find yourself.
Find yourself as a human, as a citizen of this world, right?
Far different. So it took me a while. I see pros and cons with that, but it has to change because this is the reality, situation.
Yeah. And it's funny because when I, when I kind of think about it. So to what extent do you try to push them to stretch?
(06:26):
We know they're not reading, right. And we know data tells us that the amount of time that students can actually focus
is getting shorter and shorter and shorter because of social media accounts.
And, you know, the way in which they interact with text.
So we know that. We know push the boundary and make them stretch.We need to push the boundary a little.
(06:47):
But how do you do that?
One of the courses I teach, "love and its myths," I mean, it lends itself to first year students.
So I look for required reading textbooks that are short novels that we can then really engage with
the idea of 'love' and fit it into the themes that we're working on in the class.
Yeah. Great. Now your teaching dossier certainly shows dedication to students both in and outside the classroom.
(07:15):
Right. You're a teacher, but you're also a mentor. So did you have mentors?
Teaching mentors? Earlier on that you kind of think this is this is what I want to be for my students?
Absolutely. I mean, I have had nothing but amazing mentors here at Laurier, at University of Waterloo, because I did the joint PhD program.
(07:37):
I also had mentors in my undergraduate years at York U, teaching assistants as well as professors.
And so I really, I admired how they presented material,
how they made you think or stretch yourself, which is what I do try and do with my own students,
is move beyond the box that you perhaps have come with to see things in a different perspective, in a different light.
(08:03):
So for that, I am ever grateful for the mentors I've had, and I really try and do that for my students as well to try and,
Well, critically think about what it is you're being presented.
And in class I do tell them this is the Academy.
This is a conversation that's taking place so you can have ideas, you can have opinions.
(08:28):
And what we do is come in and explore those, right?
That there's not one way, especially in Arts, you know, we've got so many different ways of approaching materials and engage.
So I try and be that kind of mentor for my students as well.
But I would say in my time here at Laurier, there's one professor that stands out as my teaching mentor.
(08:52):
And that was one one of our teachers, emeritus, Michel Desjardins.
I think he has so many students of his who have embraced teaching because of his
compassion, his rigour, his wisdom.
(09:12):
So yes, I would say he was one of my
foremost professors who really got me thinking about life as an academic doing a PhD at teaching.
So he was the one that, it was somewhere in an interaction with him that you thought "I could teach."
"I would love to teach."Exactly. I would love to teach.
(09:36):
He made our classes so engaging and so fun and,
And yet we were always thinking. So. Yes, I wanted to do that.
I love that.You teaching philosophy
really emphasizes developing the whole student with a focus on inclusivity and experiential learning.
(09:57):
Can you talk a little bit about what developing the whole student means to you?
Because you're really approaching your teaching holistically.
I really endeavour to listen to my students.
I think that's part of that whole understanding that the students coming in the classroom want to learn about the subject I'm teaching,
(10:19):
but it's so much more than that. That they have lives outside of the classroom.
They have challenges. They have joy outside of the classroom.
Extracurricular activities in the Hawks.
I mean, they've got so many different things that they come to in my classroom.
So I think understanding that whole student, understanding that a lot of the courses I teach are electives.
(10:47):
So this may not be their major. This may not be
where they have to focus all their attention on.
So understanding that I think is part of the whole student and then aside from listening to hear what that student has,
it's developing that student so that they see beyond the classroom. The whole student as
(11:11):
a leader and a part of our citizenship moving forward beyond this university and into the world.
So trying to have a more experiential learning affect where they can take something and really understand it, not just intellectually, but
apply that out in the world beyond the classroom. And then think about where they fit vis-a-vis that understanding, "hey, what's my place?"
(11:39):
"What's my place in this world, in this city, in this?"
Absolutely. To develop that
understanding of the whole student. And is that what lies behind your reflection exercises that you do with the students?
So talk to us a little bit about those, because a lot of faculty are starting to, you know, really dig in to the reflection assignment.
(12:02):
So tell us a little bit about what you do.
So my reflections I always encourage the student to reflect on what they've learned in the class,
because they have to demonstrate they've learned something from the class.Link link.
Correct. But then I asked for an application outside of the classroom.
It can be personal experience, which some students do share, but it could also be a reflection in a current event in society.
(12:28):
It could be a reflection of a movie, novel, something, interaction between people.
Because my courses tend to involve culture, religion, love these kinds of elements.
So looking for that outside of the classroom,
recognizing when they walk into a restaurant what a particular statue might be meaning in that restaurant.
(12:52):
Especially in our pluralistic, multicultural Canada, I think
it's really important for the students to take that away and apply it.
I think religious literacy,
from the Religion and Culture Department is imperative that people have an understanding of other people's traditions.
So I try really hard to do that through reflections.
(13:15):
But you also respond to like in thinking about developing the whole student.
You also provide quite a bit of flexibility in your course.
Mhm. So you know can you talk a little bit about that.
Right. Students can choose you know, their own pathway I think through your courses.
I do allow a lot of maneuverability through the class.
(13:39):
So, for example, if there's tutorials, I'll have a participation grade in the tutorial,
but only X amount will count towards their final grades.
So if they're ill, if they miss one, it's not the end of the world.It's not the end of the world.
Exactly. You may have a shift at work or they're ill.
Something comes up. So I understand that.
(14:00):
I will usually offer multiple reflections of which X number need to be submitted towards a final grade.
Again, something comes up or they didn't. It didn't resonate with them.
A particular section of the course they just have no interest in, didn't resonate,
or something occurred in their personal life that prevented them from really digging in and engaging in that.
(14:22):
So those are the opportunities that I give.
I kind of went out on a limb at Laurier.
I like also with the final exam to make that optional.Yeah, that is great.
I kind of went out on a limb at Laurier.
I didn't know how that was going to be.
So tell us how you set that up. Because I think that's a really interesting approach.
The way I looked at it was, coming out of COVID, many of the students had gone through high school and not had any exams.
(14:51):
Yep. The anxiety levels were quite elevated.
And I thought, some people excel in exams, some people freeze.
So what I wanted to do was give students the opportunity to make a choice if they felt comfortable with
the course materials and they felt that they wanted to move towards possibly elevating their grade,
(15:13):
then they can opt to take the final exam and they have until the ninth or tenth week, depending on the course, to determine whether or not.
So they've got a lot of their grade already to make that determination.
And, you know, lots of different components.
You know, like if I'm just thinking about that wonderful quote in your dossier where you talk about the quote, is it Barbara Coloroso?
(15:35):
Yes! Barbara Coloroso.The parenting styles, you know, jellyfish, the brick wall or the spine.
So you definitely you have a quite a very gated spine.
Right? You have been doing lots of different things. Like it's not like they're not working in the class.
No. Exactly. There is work to be done and they have to do that and make that decision based on what work they've done.
(15:59):
But if something occurred and they're looking like things are really perilous,
they may actually fail the course or they're right on teetering on the edge,
they have that option to write that final exam.
Because it's the whole term that the final exam is based on, it's not just particular sections.
(16:21):
So they have to prove, "Yes, I can pass this course. I understand the material."
So yeah I try like Barbara Coloroso
to offer that I'm not a jellyfish, I'm not full of compassion with no rigour,
but I'm not so rigorous that I'm a brick wall on, you know, inflexible. What I like about that option.
(16:42):
So, you know, an optional final exam.
You're engaging students in thinking about their own. That in itself is reflecting, "how am I doing?"
"I need to assess where I am at this moment in the class."
"What do I need to do to get to the finish line?"
"And what is it that I want to have achieved?"
(17:03):
Exactly, yes. And so we often don't do that with students.
We lay it out with them. This is what you need to do, but don't really involve them in assessment of the, you know, pathway forward.
That's right. So I do. I try and because like you say, some students may be quite pleased with a D or C.
(17:24):
That that is what their goal was in that elective course working two jobs they needed to pass.
And they, they got their 59 and they're okay with that.
Whereas for an A or B student that would be like no way.
Yes. Especially in that transition when you've got a lot of first year students that are making that transition to university and they're.
(17:45):
It's a big transition and I think getting bigger. Yeah. So Covid taught me how to be even more flexible with this.
Again, a new cohort who had no skill set really in that and a lot of anxiety around it.
You have really, you write in your dossier about, you know,
making a real effort to diversify your course materials to include different cultural and religious perspectives.
(18:10):
Talk a little bit about that. How do you choose the new materials?
And then, you know, what has been the impact with students?
There's, I have to say, there's wonderful quotes in there [your dossier] from students who are like, "I didn't know that about my religion."
Right. Wonderful. Yeah.
I think part of my awakening to this was relatively early on here at Laurier when I was given the beautiful task of designing an online course,
(18:39):
and I was taking an older version that had one particular view, and I thought,
wouldn't it be great if we diversified this and look at all the different religious traditions?
And I felt that that would be fun.
Now for me, based on my PhD, I had a good amount of information, but I had to do a lot more research on other forms of love.
(19:02):
So it was it was really wonderful to put that together.
I was going to say spending time researching other forms of love.
I mean, what a wonderful, absolutely. Yeah, wonderful.
So I really enjoyed that. And I do hear good feedback from students about how much they appreciated
even a tradition they didn't know about (19:20):
"I had no idea about this or that."
And, and so again, developing that religious literacy and seeing other traditions and how their views arise.
But then there's another course I teach, Religion in the Americas,
and a lot of second generation students would come back to me and say, "I now understand my parents," and I loved that.
(19:46):
"I now understand my parents," that's precious. I absolutely love that. As a second generation immigrant,
I know why my parents felt this was so important for me to understand about my traditions and my culture.
And I think that was so rewarding for me because it felt like perhaps there was some healing there,
(20:07):
because I know those second generation students are traversing two worlds at the same time.
And so to hear that feedback, it was beautiful.
Great.So that's why I think the diversity.
But you asked too about the materials. So with my materials, there is not a single way of being Hindu or a single way of being Jewish.
(20:30):
So you have to read a lot, but you have to ultimately make some decisions as to how you present it.
So I tell the students numerous times how these are traditions, that there are Christian traditions, there are Hindu traditions.
I did have a student once say, you know, I'm from the Caribbean and I'm Hindu and I don't recognize what you're teaching.
(20:56):
So this is very much the reality.
I have to remind students that depending on where geographically or where what branch of a tradition, I'm not going to cover them all.
And so I try and seek kind of the core understandings of each tradition.
And then traditions that have been marginalized and repressed, such as Indigenous traditions,
(21:24):
to ensure that what I was providing and presenting as love in Indigenous traditions was accurate.
And again. You can't cover all the Indigenous traditions.
So I'm trying to find what will interest students and what is localized here in the Haudenosaunee and the Anishnaabe communities in this area.
(21:48):
So to try and keep it more local. Yeah, but that in itself, right?
If you're providing a core that students can engage with, they're learning.
So that may not be my I may be Hindu, I may not recognize myself in what you're teaching,
and yet, I can engage with that material.
Again, you're encouraging that reflection, that discussion. Exactly. On diversity, even within your own tradition.
(22:16):
Which is important. Different interpretations, different understandings.
Yes. And the implications for society. Yes.
Absolutely. Love having this diversity.
But, you know, I think one of the most important things that we do on this campus is creating brave spaces to talk about things.
And, you know, and if we can't talk about diversity and share perspectives,
(22:43):
even though we may not agree or we may not see things in a different way,
then, you know, where are people going to be able to engage in that kind of discussion?
Absolutely. It has I mean, this is part of learning, right?
Is to encounter difference and then to learn about that difference and to have ideas and to express them and trying to create,
(23:06):
I guess, what's been called the "safe space" in the classroom.
And to honour and respect the different ideas and opinions that come forward. How do you do that?
Because you're talking about religion. That can get heated.
It can be. So how do you prepare students to engage in a way that's reflective, constructive?
(23:27):
I think starting by explaining, even within one tradition, there's so many different interpretations.
So to recognize that each student comes with their own history and their own understanding of identity,
whether they're religious or non-religious, and that provides a frame.
(23:47):
But to understand and listen to other encounters is beneficial and that they don't have to agree that I make it very clear that they can disagree.
Again, this is the academy. We can disagree.Yeah. That's right.
And I do explain the difference between an opinion of disagreeing versus factual
(24:09):
understanding of why and what supporting evidence you need to bring to bare
if you want to totally disagree with something, what alternative are you offering and what supporting evidence are you using?
So again, it's a teaching moment.
It's that moment of understanding diversity and difference with compassion and love for our pluralistic and multicultural way of interacting.
(24:34):
And, you know, so linked directly to that, you are really engaged in Universal Design for Learning,
thinking and in terms of classroom activities, course design.
Which provides a way of recognizing diversity, of welcoming students who are coming from,
(24:57):
with different sets of skills and abilities into the classroom.
And you've been very engaged with Teaching Excellence and Innovation on this.
So talk a little bit about what that looks like in terms of your course design in your classroom.
I think with universal learning, I came through understanding through my interactions with accessible learning office.
(25:18):
And understanding the different ways in which people learn whether they're visual learners or auditory learners.
That was the initial beginning of just difference and then learning even deeper
how supportive the Accessible Learning Centre is for people with different,
diverse ways of learning. And so when I heard about universal design, I didn't know what it was at first.
(25:44):
And then coming to the different teaching and learning and figuring out, oh my goodness,
this is such an amazing way to design a course so that you are attempting,
you can't universally design for every single, but for a broad way of going on so that, for example, I have a whiteboard,
(26:07):
which students provide notes so that notetakers are not really required in my course,
which is one of the accessible learning accommodations because everybody contributes notes.
Not only is it a benefit for a student who might require a notetaker, it's a benefit for everyone.
But everybody.If you've missed the class, well you've got my PowerPoints which
(26:31):
I make very clear are only outlines.
The details are coming to class, but you've got an outline, you've got the reading material and you've got notes from students.
So if you can look at all of that, you might be able to figure out what exactly was talked about in the lecture if you missed it.
Tutorials are another great way to again encapsulate that learning moment.
(26:55):
To figure out what it is that may have been missed. And then I have office hours so you can come and talk to me.
So that's one aspect of universal design. Not having a single date for the dropbox is another.
I usually offer a three day, sometimes one week window, depending on when it is, but I do also say I will provide extensions.
(27:19):
I'm okay with that if I can't grade them all in one night.
So if they needed an extra few days, I'm still grading all the others in the inbox, so that's okay by me.
But the requirement is they have to ask for it before the day it's due because I'm not granting one.
It means to me, you haven't thought it through. No, in the moment.
(27:40):
Whereas if you've thought it through and you go, oh wait a minute,
I'm on the basketball team and we've got a game and I've got a midterm and I won't be able to get that done.
If you send me that email, I'll grant you the extension.
We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. So those are some of the ways I've adopted universal design.
And having only X amount, you know, of the reflections [count] towards the final so that students have the way to maneuver with their other classes,
(28:08):
and any accommodations they may require.But also just various ways to demonstrate their learning.
Exactly. Reflections. Quizzes.
Absolutely. Tutorial participation, note-taking participation.
These are all ways in which the students engage and earn their grades.
We've we've had some wonderful discussion in this series, too,
(28:34):
about instructors who offer very different kinds of assessments, like students can do a visual art,
project, or they can do a written project or they can
do an oral presentation or a podcast or allowing students, again, to demonstrate
their learning in different ways. Ways that speak to them.
Exactly. And I have had students.
(28:56):
I was going to ask, how do students respond when they,
when they realize the flexibility and the openness to taking different pathways through?
Well, the first time I ever offered, instead of a written reflection, one of the reflections in the courses is a visual reflection.
(29:20):
So they had to do a recording on their cell phone and they didn't have to be on camera.
And the response I got overwhelmed me because some of the students were horrified because this was like, totally out of the norm.What are you asking me to do?
That's right. And very concerned. And uploading
I had to learn a lot about different formats of videos and uploading.
(29:41):
I've been there. Okay. Especially during the pandemic.
Exactly, yes. Remember March of 2021, we ended up suddenly going home.
And I had senior students doing final presentations, and, well,
you're going to have to video yourself and we're going to have to upload and I'm going to have to learn.
Exactly. And that was probably the impetus for doing something more creative.
(30:06):
But I had one student who did like a puppet show. Oh, it was on Romantic Love, I remember, and they did a puppet show.
So they filmed a puppet show. Yeah. And I've had some absolutely beautiful creative moments.
It's been fun exploring the different ways, and I have had some students do audio recordings instead of written work.
(30:29):
It's preferable for them. So as long as they're conveying what they've learned and that's part of an assessment.
I'm good with that. It doesn't have to be written.
I wonder if I could draw things to a close by asking you,
what's one thing that stands out that your students or colleagues have taught you over your career?
I think from my students, I've learned to review constantly the course materials.
(30:56):
Right. I remember once offering, I think there were three core books.
And I was getting vibes they did not like.
It wasn't resonating. No. One of them was really. So I thought, and it was a book I loved. A philosophy book.
So it was hard to give up. It was hard to give up. It had such incredible deep.
(31:17):
So I teach about that book now in my class.
But I don't make them read it. Because what I did, it was at the time of Survivor, and being voted off the island.
So I put on MyLearningSpace. I put together a "Vote the Book off the Island," and it just got tossed.
I thought, okay, unfortunately, this book is no longer resonating at all with this community.
(31:42):
Vote the book off, that's funny.So students teach me. I have to listen.
But they teach me. Yes. And what I have found in my 20 years here is the student body changes.
Our way of delivering a course changes, that we must continually learn that the university as a whole will continue to change,
(32:07):
and from that point of view, to not fear. I think at first I feared, what am I going to do now?
Like I have this brilliant course, how am I going to tweak it?
What am I going to change? But that was something Michel Desjardin said.
Michel said, when you teach the course the first time, it's like a prototype.
Mhm. And it's a pilot.It's the tweaking that refines, refines, refines.
(32:32):
And what I've found is you never arrive. Yeah.
You are always tweaking and refining. Even though early in your career you think you will get there.You think you will, you'll bring out the yellow pages!
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No it's always what can I do differently this time?
What materials can I present either differently or different materials.
So I think what my colleagues and students have taught me is to be alert, to respond,
(32:58):
to listen to what is on the ground out there in the classroom, to not be like, separate from that.
So that.
We'll always hopefully be learning like this will be a continual process of ongoing learning and that our teaching skills will continue to evolve,
(33:19):
and we'll continue to learn about how to teach whatever next community of students will come in because they'll be different again.
That seems to me to be the definition of sustained excellence in teaching.
So thank you very much for that. Thanks for joining us here today.
Thank you so much for having me, Debora.
(33:39):
My thanks to Marybeth White for joining me today, and I hope you will join me for more conversations that celebrate exceptional teaching practices,
explore diverse teaching philosophies, and discuss the future of higher education, teaching, and learning.
[Auto-generated transcript. Edits may have been applied for clarity.]Welcome to Laurier's Teaching Excellence Conversation series.
I'm Debora VanNijnatten and Academic Director of Teaching Excellence and Innovation at Wilfrid Laurier University.
And today, I'm with Marybeth White from the Religion and Culture Department in the Faculty of Arts,
who received the 2024 Sustained Excellence Award in the part-time category.
(00:21):
Marybeth has been teaching as a part-time contract faculty member at Laurier for more than 18 years,
and her passion for creating a nurturing and engaging learning environment shines through in her teaching practice.
She works to foster inclusive classrooms, teach diverse course materials,
and expand students perspectives on the course material and the world by integrating diverse assessment
(00:44):
methods such as reflective journal exercises and optional final exams for first year students.
Marybeth demonstrates a deep commitment to reducing student stress and promoting inclusivity.
I'm very excited to talk with her today.
[uplifting music plays]
(01:21):
Well, Marybeth, thank you so much for joining us here today.
You are a sustained excellence winner. You've taught at Laurier for 18, 19 years now? Almost 20 this year.
What are some of the most significant changes that you've observed in students over the years?
You know, today's students, what do they seem to take on more easily than earlier students or, alternatively,
(01:48):
what do they struggle with more than earlier cohorts did? So what have you kind of seen over time?
Part of what I've seen in the positive feature of students nowadays is their willingness to be forthcoming.
They do knock on doors, they do ask questions, they do challenge.
(02:08):
And I think this is in a positive way. I think it's good that they advocate for themselves and they seem to know how to support themselves.
Not all students, but I see the majority of students are well disciplined in moving through and advocating for themselves.
So that's the benefit. Some of the struggles I see that, I wonder, could it possibly be through social media?
(02:35):
It's reading. That's the first and foremost. I don't feel that the students really read what I've put on courses.
As they're required reading.We hear that a lot.
So that I see as a problem or a challenge, I guess.
And then one of the other things that some students seem to struggle a little bit more with are deadlines.
(02:59):
I see deadline and completing things on time, so I've tried to shift my focus to accommodate for that.
But deadlines seem to be pressing. But part of that, I think, is also previous years.
Like if I go back 20 years, students who are attending university were just attending university.
(03:20):
I hear from my students, a lot of them have two jobs. Not just one other part-time job,
but some of them are working more than one job to try and pay for their schooling.
So I understand the readings and the deadlines being more challenging.
When you are not a full-time student dedicated to just doing that
you've also got other employment issues that you're balancing.
(03:44):
Yeah, and certainly if I think about change over time as well,
the role that education plays in the lives of students and also how they view education is a little bit more instrumentalist, right?
It's not the educational experience itself. It's a means to an end.
(04:06):
So then we kind of think, how does that impact the way that we design our course materials, etc.
So then how have you responded to this over time? So, you know, on the positive side, right,
the students willing to, you know, put themselves out there and to engage and to challenge.
So what does that mean in terms of course design or classroom activities for you?
(04:26):
A different approach. I feel when I started teaching,
I offered what I guess I would call like a constellation approach where I'd gather beautiful materials I thought were beautiful,
and I put them all together, and somehow the students would recognize that there's this common theme. That they're beautiful.
And we could have discussions about them. And I think a lot of that was because that's how I was a graduate and undergraduate student.
(04:55):
So now my teaching really is far more focused.
It's like, okay, what do I want the students to have as their takeaway.
So I do think in terms of takeaway, what is it that when they leave my classroom,
they have with them in their pocket or in their toolbox, that's something that they can build on later in life.
(05:16):
So that is definitely my course outlines,
the way I designed the course is far more compact.
The readings I've cut so many compared to 20 years ago
what I had them reading. So it's really the essentials,
and I look for a lot of resources that are articles as opposed to chapters or books now.
(05:37):
Just to try and keep things compact.
So that's, that's a massive change that I've made to the way I approach teaching for where they're coming in
they need to hold on to something and they need to leave.
And as you're saying, it's far more for employment purposes, not for
(06:00):
the older thinking of higher education as a place to think.
Of find yourself.
Find yourself as a human, as a citizen of this world, right?
Far different. So it took me a while. I see pros and cons with that, but it has to change because this is the reality, situation.
Yeah. And it's funny because when I, when I kind of think about it. So to what extent do you try to push them to stretch?
(06:26):
We know they're not reading, right. And we know data tells us that the amount of time that students can actually focus
is getting shorter and shorter and shorter because of social media accounts.
And, you know, the way in which they interact with text.
So we know that. We know push the boundary and make them stretch.We need to push the boundary a little.
(06:47):
But how do you do that?
One of the courses I teach, "love and its myths," I mean, it lends itself to first year students.
So I look for required reading textbooks that are short novels that we can then really engage with
the idea of 'love' and fit it into the themes that we're working on in the class.
Yeah. Great. Now your teaching dossier certainly shows dedication to students both in and outside the classroom.
(07:15):
Right. You're a teacher, but you're also a mentor. So did you have mentors?
Teaching mentors? Earlier on that you kind of think this is this is what I want to be for my students?
Absolutely. I mean, I have had nothing but amazing mentors here at Laurier, at University of Waterloo, because I did the joint PhD program.
(07:37):
I also had mentors in my undergraduate years at York U, teaching assistants as well as professors.
And so I really, I admired how they presented material,
how they made you think or stretch yourself, which is what I do try and do with my own students,
is move beyond the box that you perhaps have come with to see things in a different perspective, in a different light.
(08:03):
So for that, I am ever grateful for the mentors I've had, and I really try and do that for my students as well to try and,
Well, critically think about what it is you're being presented.
And in class I do tell them this is the Academy.
This is a conversation that's taking place so you can have ideas, you can have opinions.
(08:28):
And what we do is come in and explore those, right?
That there's not one way, especially in Arts, you know, we've got so many different ways of approaching materials and engage.
So I try and be that kind of mentor for my students as well.
But I would say in my time here at Laurier, there's one professor that stands out as my teaching mentor.
(08:52):
And that was one one of our teachers, emeritus, Michel Desjardins.
I think he has so many students of his who have embraced teaching because of his
compassion, his rigour, his wisdom.
(09:12):
So yes, I would say he was one of my
foremost professors who really got me thinking about life as an academic doing a PhD at teaching.
So he was the one that, it was somewhere in an interaction with him that you thought "I could teach."
"I would love to teach."Exactly. I would love to teach.
(09:36):
He made our classes so engaging and so fun and,
And yet we were always thinking. So. Yes, I wanted to do that.
I love that.You teaching philosophy
really emphasizes developing the whole student with a focus on inclusivity and experiential learning.
(09:57):
Can you talk a little bit about what developing the whole student means to you?
Because you're really approaching your teaching holistically.
I really endeavour to listen to my students.
I think that's part of that whole understanding that the students coming in the classroom want to learn about the subject I'm teaching,
(10:19):
but it's so much more than that. That they have lives outside of the classroom.
They have challenges. They have joy outside of the classroom.
Extracurricular activities in the Hawks.
I mean, they've got so many different things that they come to in my classroom.
So I think understanding that whole student, understanding that a lot of the courses I teach are electives.
(10:47):
So this may not be their major. This may not be
where they have to focus all their attention on.
So understanding that I think is part of the whole student and then aside from listening to hear what that student has,
it's developing that student so that they see beyond the classroom. The whole student as
(11:11):
a leader and a part of our citizenship moving forward beyond this university and into the world.
So trying to have a more experiential learning affect where they can take something and really understand it, not just intellectually, but
apply that out in the world beyond the classroom. And then think about where they fit vis-a-vis that understanding, "hey, what's my place?"
(11:39):
"What's my place in this world, in this city, in this?"
Absolutely. To develop that
understanding of the whole student. And is that what lies behind your reflection exercises that you do with the students?
So talk to us a little bit about those, because a lot of faculty are starting to, you know, really dig in to the reflection assignment.
(12:02):
So tell us a little bit about what you do.
So my reflections I always encourage the student to reflect on what they've learned in the class,
because they have to demonstrate they've learned something from the class.Link link.
Correct. But then I asked for an application outside of the classroom.
It can be personal experience, which some students do share, but it could also be a reflection in a current event in society.
(12:28):
It could be a reflection of a movie, novel, something, interaction between people.
Because my courses tend to involve culture, religion, love these kinds of elements.
So looking for that outside of the classroom,
recognizing when they walk into a restaurant what a particular statue might be meaning in that restaurant.
(12:52):
Especially in our pluralistic, multicultural Canada, I think
it's really important for the students to take that away and apply it.
I think religious literacy,
from the Religion and Culture Department is imperative that people have an understanding of other people's traditions.
So I try really hard to do that through reflections.
(13:15):
But you also respond to like in thinking about developing the whole student.
You also provide quite a bit of flexibility in your course.
Mhm. So you know can you talk a little bit about that.
Right. Students can choose you know, their own pathway I think through your courses.
I do allow a lot of maneuverability through the class.
(13:39):
So, for example, if there's tutorials, I'll have a participation grade in the tutorial,
but only X amount will count towards their final grades.
So if they're ill, if they miss one, it's not the end of the world.It's not the end of the world.
Exactly. You may have a shift at work or they're ill.
Something comes up. So I understand that.
(14:00):
I will usually offer multiple reflections of which X number need to be submitted towards a final grade.
Again, something comes up or they didn't. It didn't resonate with them.
A particular section of the course they just have no interest in, didn't resonate,
or something occurred in their personal life that prevented them from really digging in and engaging in that.
(14:22):
So those are the opportunities that I give.
I kind of went out on a limb at Laurier.
I like also with the final exam to make that optional.Yeah, that is great.
I kind of went out on a limb at Laurier.
I didn't know how that was going to be.
So tell us how you set that up. Because I think that's a really interesting approach.
The way I looked at it was, coming out of COVID, many of the students had gone through high school and not had any exams.
(14:51):
Yep. The anxiety levels were quite elevated.
And I thought, some people excel in exams, some people freeze.
So what I wanted to do was give students the opportunity to make a choice if they felt comfortable with
the course materials and they felt that they wanted to move towards possibly elevating their grade,
(15:13):
then they can opt to take the final exam and they have until the ninth or tenth week, depending on the course, to determine whether or not.
So they've got a lot of their grade already to make that determination.
And, you know, lots of different components.
You know, like if I'm just thinking about that wonderful quote in your dossier where you talk about the quote, is it Barbara Coloroso?
(15:35):
Yes! Barbara Coloroso.The parenting styles, you know, jellyfish, the brick wall or the spine.
So you definitely you have a quite a very gated spine.
Right? You have been doing lots of different things. Like it's not like they're not working in the class.
No. Exactly. There is work to be done and they have to do that and make that decision based on what work they've done.
(15:59):
But if something occurred and they're looking like things are really perilous,
they may actually fail the course or they're right on teetering on the edge,
they have that option to write that final exam.
Because it's the whole term that the final exam is based on, it's not just particular sections.
(16:21):
So they have to prove, "Yes, I can pass this course. I understand the material."
So yeah I try like Barbara Coloroso
to offer that I'm not a jellyfish, I'm not full of compassion with no rigour,
but I'm not so rigorous that I'm a brick wall on, you know, inflexible. What I like about that option.
(16:42):
So, you know, an optional final exam.
You're engaging students in thinking about their own. That in itself is reflecting, "how am I doing?"
"I need to assess where I am at this moment in the class."
"What do I need to do to get to the finish line?"
"And what is it that I want to have achieved?"
(17:03):
Exactly, yes. And so we often don't do that with students.
We lay it out with them. This is what you need to do, but don't really involve them in assessment of the, you know, pathway forward.
That's right. So I do. I try and because like you say, some students may be quite pleased with a D or C.
(17:24):
That that is what their goal was in that elective course working two jobs they needed to pass.
And they, they got their 59 and they're okay with that.
Whereas for an A or B student that would be like no way.
Yes. Especially in that transition when you've got a lot of first year students that are making that transition to university and they're.
(17:45):
It's a big transition and I think getting bigger. Yeah. So Covid taught me how to be even more flexible with this.
Again, a new cohort who had no skill set really in that and a lot of anxiety around it.
You have really, you write in your dossier about, you know,
making a real effort to diversify your course materials to include different cultural and religious perspectives.
(18:10):
Talk a little bit about that. How do you choose the new materials?
And then, you know, what has been the impact with students?
There's, I have to say, there's wonderful quotes in there [your dossier] from students who are like, "I didn't know that about my religion."
Right. Wonderful. Yeah.
I think part of my awakening to this was relatively early on here at Laurier when I was given the beautiful task of designing an online course,
(18:39):
and I was taking an older version that had one particular view, and I thought,
wouldn't it be great if we diversified this and look at all the different religious traditions?
And I felt that that would be fun.
Now for me, based on my PhD, I had a good amount of information, but I had to do a lot more research on other forms of love.
(19:02):
So it was it was really wonderful to put that together.
I was going to say spending time researching other forms of love.
I mean, what a wonderful, absolutely. Yeah, wonderful.
So I really enjoyed that. And I do hear good feedback from students about how much they appreciated
even a tradition they didn't know about (19:20):
"I had no idea about this or that."
And, and so again, developing that religious literacy and seeing other traditions and how their views arise.
But then there's another course I teach, Religion in the Americas,
and a lot of second generation students would come back to me and say, "I now understand my parents," and I loved that.
(19:46):
"I now understand my parents," that's precious. I absolutely love that. As a second generation immigrant,
I know why my parents felt this was so important for me to understand about my traditions and my culture.
And I think that was so rewarding for me because it felt like perhaps there was some healing there,
(20:07):
because I know those second generation students are traversing two worlds at the same time.
And so to hear that feedback, it was beautiful.
Great.So that's why I think the diversity.
But you asked too about the materials. So with my materials, there is not a single way of being Hindu or a single way of being Jewish.
(20:30):
So you have to read a lot, but you have to ultimately make some decisions as to how you present it.
So I tell the students numerous times how these are traditions, that there are Christian traditions, there are Hindu traditions.
I did have a student once say, you know, I'm from the Caribbean and I'm Hindu and I don't recognize what you're teaching.
(20:56):
So this is very much the reality.
I have to remind students that depending on where geographically or where what branch of a tradition, I'm not going to cover them all.
And so I try and seek kind of the core understandings of each tradition.
And then traditions that have been marginalized and repressed, such as Indigenous traditions,
(21:24):
to ensure that what I was providing and presenting as love in Indigenous traditions was accurate.
And again. You can't cover all the Indigenous traditions.
So I'm trying to find what will interest students and what is localized here in the Haudenosaunee and the Anishnaabe communities in this area.
(21:48):
So to try and keep it more local. Yeah, but that in itself, right?
If you're providing a core that students can engage with, they're learning.
So that may not be my I may be Hindu, I may not recognize myself in what you're teaching,
and yet, I can engage with that material.
Again, you're encouraging that reflection, that discussion. Exactly. On diversity, even within your own tradition.
(22:16):
Which is important. Different interpretations, different understandings.
Yes. And the implications for society. Yes.
Absolutely. Love having this diversity.
But, you know, I think one of the most important things that we do on this campus is creating brave spaces to talk about things.
And, you know, and if we can't talk about diversity and share perspectives,
(22:43):
even though we may not agree or we may not see things in a different way,
then, you know, where are people going to be able to engage in that kind of discussion?
Absolutely. It has I mean, this is part of learning, right?
Is to encounter difference and then to learn about that difference and to have ideas and to express them and trying to create,
(23:06):
I guess, what's been called the "safe space" in the classroom.
And to honour and respect the different ideas and opinions that come forward. How do you do that?
Because you're talking about religion. That can get heated.
It can be. So how do you prepare students to engage in a way that's reflective, constructive?
(23:27):
I think starting by explaining, even within one tradition, there's so many different interpretations.
So to recognize that each student comes with their own history and their own understanding of identity,
whether they're religious or non-religious, and that provides a frame.
(23:47):
But to understand and listen to other encounters is beneficial and that they don't have to agree that I make it very clear that they can disagree.
Again, this is the academy. We can disagree.Yeah. That's right.
And I do explain the difference between an opinion of disagreeing versus factual
(24:09):
understanding of why and what supporting evidence you need to bring to bare
if you want to totally disagree with something, what alternative are you offering and what supporting evidence are you using?
So again, it's a teaching moment.
It's that moment of understanding diversity and difference with compassion and love for our pluralistic and multicultural way of interacting.
(24:34):
And, you know, so linked directly to that, you are really engaged in Universal Design for Learning,
thinking and in terms of classroom activities, course design.
Which provides a way of recognizing diversity, of welcoming students who are coming from,
(24:57):
with different sets of skills and abilities into the classroom.
And you've been very engaged with Teaching Excellence and Innovation on this.
So talk a little bit about what that looks like in terms of your course design in your classroom.
I think with universal learning, I came through understanding through my interactions with accessible learning office.
(25:18):
And understanding the different ways in which people learn whether they're visual learners or auditory learners.
That was the initial beginning of just difference and then learning even deeper
how supportive the Accessible Learning Centre is for people with different,
diverse ways of learning. And so when I heard about universal design, I didn't know what it was at first.
(25:44):
And then coming to the different teaching and learning and figuring out, oh my goodness,
this is such an amazing way to design a course so that you are attempting,
you can't universally design for every single, but for a broad way of going on so that, for example, I have a whiteboard,
(26:07):
which students provide notes so that notetakers are not really required in my course,
which is one of the accessible learning accommodations because everybody contributes notes.
Not only is it a benefit for a student who might require a notetaker, it's a benefit for everyone.
But everybody.If you've missed the class, well you've got my PowerPoints which
(26:31):
I make very clear are only outlines.
The details are coming to class, but you've got an outline, you've got the reading material and you've got notes from students.
So if you can look at all of that, you might be able to figure out what exactly was talked about in the lecture if you missed it.
Tutorials are another great way to again encapsulate that learning moment.
(26:55):
To figure out what it is that may have been missed. And then I have office hours so you can come and talk to me.
So that's one aspect of universal design. Not having a single date for the dropbox is another.
I usually offer a three day, sometimes one week window, depending on when it is, but I do also say I will provide extensions.
(27:19):
I'm okay with that if I can't grade them all in one night.
So if they needed an extra few days, I'm still grading all the others in the inbox, so that's okay by me.
But the requirement is they have to ask for it before the day it's due because I'm not granting one.
It means to me, you haven't thought it through. No, in the moment.
(27:40):
Whereas if you've thought it through and you go, oh wait a minute,
I'm on the basketball team and we've got a game and I've got a midterm and I won't be able to get that done.
If you send me that email, I'll grant you the extension.
We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. So those are some of the ways I've adopted universal design.
And having only X amount, you know, of the reflections [count] towards the final so that students have the way to maneuver with their other classes,
(28:08):
and any accommodations they may require.But also just various ways to demonstrate their learning.
Exactly. Reflections. Quizzes.
Absolutely. Tutorial participation, note-taking participation.
These are all ways in which the students engage and earn their grades.
We've we've had some wonderful discussion in this series, too,
(28:34):
about instructors who offer very different kinds of assessments, like students can do a visual art,
project, or they can do a written project or they can
do an oral presentation or a podcast or allowing students, again, to demonstrate
their learning in different ways. Ways that speak to them.
Exactly. And I have had students.
(28:56):
I was going to ask, how do students respond when they,
when they realize the flexibility and the openness to taking different pathways through?
Well, the first time I ever offered, instead of a written reflection, one of the reflections in the courses is a visual reflection.
(29:20):
So they had to do a recording on their cell phone and they didn't have to be on camera.
And the response I got overwhelmed me because some of the students were horrified because this was like, totally out of the norm.What are you asking me to do?
That's right. And very concerned. And uploading
I had to learn a lot about different formats of videos and uploading.
(29:41):
I've been there. Okay. Especially during the pandemic.
Exactly, yes. Remember March of 2021, we ended up suddenly going home.
And I had senior students doing final presentations, and, well,
you're going to have to video yourself and we're going to have to upload and I'm going to have to learn.
Exactly. And that was probably the impetus for doing something more creative.
(30:06):
But I had one student who did like a puppet show. Oh, it was on Romantic Love, I remember, and they did a puppet show.
So they filmed a puppet show. Yeah. And I've had some absolutely beautiful creative moments.
It's been fun exploring the different ways, and I have had some students do audio recordings instead of written work.
(30:29):
It's preferable for them. So as long as they're conveying what they've learned and that's part of an assessment.
I'm good with that. It doesn't have to be written.
I wonder if I could draw things to a close by asking you,
what's one thing that stands out that your students or colleagues have taught you over your career?
I think from my students, I've learned to review constantly the course materials.
(30:56):
Right. I remember once offering, I think there were three core books.
And I was getting vibes they did not like.
It wasn't resonating. No. One of them was really. So I thought, and it was a book I loved. A philosophy book.
So it was hard to give up. It was hard to give up. It had such incredible deep.
(31:17):
So I teach about that book now in my class.
But I don't make them read it. Because what I did, it was at the time of Survivor, and being voted off the island.
So I put on MyLearningSpace. I put together a "Vote the Book off the Island," and it just got tossed.
I thought, okay, unfortunately, this book is no longer resonating at all with this community.
(31:42):
Vote the book off, that's funny.So students teach me. I have to listen.
But they teach me. Yes. And what I have found in my 20 years here is the student body changes.
Our way of delivering a course changes, that we must continually learn that the university as a whole will continue to change,
(32:07):
and from that point of view, to not fear. I think at first I feared, what am I going to do now?
Like I have this brilliant course, how am I going to tweak it?
What am I going to change? But that was something Michel Desjardin said.
Michel said, when you teach the course the first time, it's like a prototype.
Mhm. And it's a pilot.It's the tweaking that refines, refines, refines.
(32:32):
And what I've found is you never arrive. Yeah.
You are always tweaking and refining. Even though early in your career you think you will get there.You think you will, you'll bring out the yellow pages!
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No it's always what can I do differently this time?
What materials can I present either differently or different materials.
So I think what my colleagues and students have taught me is to be alert, to respond,
(32:58):
to listen to what is on the ground out there in the classroom, to not be like, separate from that.
So that.
We'll always hopefully be learning like this will be a continual process of ongoing learning and that our teaching skills will continue to evolve,
(33:19):
and we'll continue to learn about how to teach whatever next community of students will come in because they'll be different again.
That seems to me to be the definition of sustained excellence in teaching.
So thank you very much for that. Thanks for joining us here today.
Thank you so much for having me, Debora.
(33:39):
My thanks to Marybeth White for joining me today, and I hope you will join me for more conversations that celebrate exceptional teaching practices,
explore diverse teaching philosophies, and discuss the future of higher education, teaching, and learning.
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