485: Preparing for the Bar Exam as a 3L (Part 1)

Episode Transcript
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Lee Burgess (00:01):
Welcome back to the Law School Toolbox podcast.
Today we are looking toward thefuture and discussing preparing
for the bar exam as a 3L.
Your Law School Toolbox hosts are AlisonMonahan and Lee Burgess, that's me.
We're here to demystify the lawschool and early legal career
experience, so you can be the bestlaw student and lawyer you can be.
We're the co creators of the Law SchoolToolbox, the Bar Exam Toolbox, and the

(00:22):
career-related website CareerDicta.
Alison also runs TheGirl's Guide to Law School.
If you enjoy the show, pleaseleave a review or rating on
your favorite listening app.
And if you have any questions,don't hesitate to reach out to us.
You can reach us via the contactform on LawSchoolToolbox.com,
and we'd love to hear from you.
And with that, let's get started.

Alison Monahan (00:46):
Welcome back to the Law School Toolbox podcast.
Today we're diving into essential tips for3Ls who are gearing up for the bar exam.
We'll cover everything from choosing abar exam review provider to early study
prep, accommodations, and getting lifein order before the madness begins.

Oh yes, the madness.

The madness.

Well, before we jump in, though, we have a few disclaimers.
Because this advice is geared towardsthe bar exams that are going to be given
before the NextGen transition comingup in 2026, we still have a bunch of
unanswered questions about what thatwill look like, and we will continue
to address those in future episodes.
We do have other episodes on theNextGen that we can link to in

(01:28):
the show notes, but it's a littlebehind, because they haven't released
everything they said they were going to.

Yeah, that was supposed to come out in the
summer; it's now early December.
We still don't have a full exam.
So, I don't know, maybe they'll hitthe second one because they were
supposed to be doing two per year, as I

recall.
Yeah, well.
Anyway, so stay tuned formore about the NextGen bar.
And if you are going to sit for the barin California, you might also be wondering
what's going on with the California bar.
Well, glad you asked, because it'sa mess over here as we're helping
people prepare for the February bar.
If you're going to be studying for theCalifornia bar in 2025, we have linked to

(02:08):
our YouTube playlist where we have beendoing some periodic updates on what's
been happening with the California bar.
We'll link to them in our show notes, andwe're going to continue releasing things
to that playlist so you can get up-to-date information as soon as we know it.
And sometimes we're funny.
And sometimes we're funny.

Yeah.
Now I was just talking tosomeone this morning about this.
So yeah, as soon as we know something, wewill post a video so you can know it too.

So, with those disclaimers, let's jump right into
some common questions we get onthe topic of how 3Ls are supposed
to get ready for the bar exam.
When should 3Ls start thinkingabout bar prep seriously?

Well, I would say if you're a 3L and you're
listening to this and you haven'tthought about it yet, probably now.
What do you think?

I

think so.

I mean, like we said, this is December, but if you haven't
already done so already, typicallyby the fall, you want to start
exploring your bar prep providersand assessing your individual needs.
You know a lot about how you study andhow you take tests, and you want to
start putting that information to useas you evaluate your bar prep options.

(03:18):
Now, bar prep companies have probablybeen lining the halls of your law
school for three years, but maybeyou haven't signed up for one.
And if you want to learn about eachone, compare pricing - because boy,
can the pricing be very different, andalso what their offerings are sometimes
you can test out their free resourcesfor the MPRE, so you can see how you

(03:40):
like them, because they are a bitdifferent, although a lot of them are
also offering something very similar.
So it's like a similarbut different situation.

Yeah, definitely.
And I think look at whatyour school's offering too.
If your school has bar prep classes inyour final semester, that can be a good
option; if they have things for you in thesummer, which some of them are doing now.
You want to be sure you understandwhat those options are, so
that you can understand whatyou might need to purchase.
In some cases, maybe the school isgoing to give you an option, you need
to evaluate whether that's going towork for you or not work for you,

(04:09):
whether you need to supplement that.
There's no one-size-fits-allsolution here.
I think it's about finding the right

fit.
Yeah.
You also want to think about yourown strengths and weaknesses, based
on how you performed in law school.
Are there areas in which you struggled?
Was first year kind of a mess for you?
Do you not remember anythingfrom those 1L classes?
So, you may have information thatyou want to really sit with to make
thoughtful choices, especially basedon your first-year performance.
If you struggled in your first year,that's a sign that you may need to be

(04:39):
even more strategic about your bar prep.

Yeah, definitely.
When we find people who failed andwe're talking to them, I often ask them
about that first year and they say,"Well, it was a bit of a struggle."
That's the reality, that thosecourses were not necessarily learned
and internalized and remembered.
Maybe some of those writing skills werenot really honed and you moved on to
paper classes or something after that.
So, a lot of the first-year stuffdoes kind of follow through and follow

(05:03):
you onto the bar exam, unfortunately.
Yeah.

The other thing that's important is, you've got to pick
where you're going to take the test.

True.

And that can be easier said than done, because sometimes
your job may be still up in the air.
Even when you took the bar, youended up taking Massachusetts
because of your clerkship, and thatI'm sure wasn't your original plan.

Yeah.
Well, I couldn't decide whether I wasgoing to work permanently in New York,
where I was in school or in California,where I had come to school from.
And I was just going back and forth andback and forth to the point that I talked
myself out of taking the bar completely.
And the judge I worked for just said, "No,you need to take the bar exam someplace."
So he suggested Massachusetts,which at the time had an extremely
high pass rate, so I did that.

(05:42):
And then later when I decidedto come back to California, I
took the California bar as well.

Yeah, so you definitely want to start thinking about those options
and weighing what makes the most sense.
Also look at reciprocity, whichis whether or not a score from one
jurisdiction could transfer over toanother jurisdiction, especially if
you're not 100% sure where you want to be.
But it's great to look at thatstuff not over the summer, while
you're trying to study for the bar.
You want to have those answers beforehand.

(06:08):
Yeah.

I mean, at this point, the UBE makes everything a lot easier.
I would have just taken theUBE and I could have used it
in Massachusetts or New York.
Maybe I would never even have movedback to California at that point,
because I would have had the UBEscore in New York and I would have
just thought it seemed easier.
Who knows?
Life-changing decision,actually, where you take the bar.

Now, how do you choose the right bar prep course?
We just talked about keeping in mindthat there are different courses
with different offerings, butwhat should you even consider when
you're looking at a bar prep course?

I think with this, people have to go back to the old
adage of, you have to know yourself.
So, for me, I went kind of anon-traditional route, maybe I
have a non-traditional brain.
But I just knew when I was looking atthese big courses, I wasn't going to be
happy sitting through a bunch of lectures.
That's not the most efficientway for me to learn.
I'm really good at picking up an outline,reading it, understanding it, maybe

(07:01):
making my own materials and using that.
So, for me, I just knew thatwasn't going to work for me.
But I think that's a hard call, becausea lot of people are pushing sort of,
"Oh, just do the course that every lawprofessor did, and then you'll be fine."
And the reality is, thatmay or may not work.

Yeah.
I think, especially with the prevalenceof all these learning differences we
have, just outside the fact that someof us process information differently,
there's a larger and larger percent ofthe law school community that is aware
of learning differences or attentiondeficit issues or anxiety, or a lot of

(07:37):
things that can really affect how you'reable to study and process information
and sit for long periods of time.
And you hopefully knowthat about yourself.
And then you should look at these barprograms and say, "If my bar program
expects me to listen to lectures forfour hours a day, one, can I listen
to lectures for four hours a day?"

(07:58):
And listening to them on 2.5 speed,I hear this stuff all the time.
It's like, you're not retaining anythingwhen you're listening to it at 2.5 speed.
So you have to say, "Is that going to bea way I'm going to retain information?
What are the other things outside of thoselectures that these bar prep companies
are offering, and do I learn that way?"

(08:19):
And I think that those can bereally hard, vulnerable questions
to have to answer for yourself,but they're incredibly important.
And remember, no one knows, unlessyou come on our podcast and talk
about it, how you studied for the bar.
They just know that you passed.
This is not something everybody sitsaround and discusses at happy hour at
the firm after you've gotten a job.

(08:40):
No.
Everyone is just like,

"Oh, I passed.
Thank goodness."
The reality is, there is a lot ofinformation you need for the exam,
but all of that information canbasically be encapsulated into a few
hundred pages, because SmartBarPrep orsomeone like them will sell it to you.
So, I think you have to keep someperspective here of, "If that's really
the information I need, what is themost efficient way of getting that

(09:02):
into my head, and then applying it tothe actual task that I have to do?"
What I see a lot of people doing is theysign up for a big bar prep company's
course, they get stuck watching tonsof videos, they start falling behind,
and then they don't really feelcomfortable doing the practice because
they don't feel like they know the law.
So then they start focusing on the law,and then they don't do the practice,
and then they get to the end and theygo into the exam with all this kind of

(09:24):
jumbled up stuff in their head that theyhaven't really fully internalized or
memorized, and then just bomb the exam.
And I hate to see that

happen.
Yeah.
You also need to really understandsome of the tools that the
bar providers are giving you.
Do you want to have a very structuredstudy schedule, or do you want one
that's adaptive and is going tochange based on what you get done?
You should also look at how many hoursa week those study schedules assume
that you're studying, because someof them can be incredibly intense and

(09:53):
really impractical to even keep upwith when it all comes down to it.

Right.
I mean, particularly if you're gettingany type of time accommodations.
If they've already got you studying10 hours a day for six or seven days a
week, you can't study 15 hours a day.
No

one can.
No.
And also, who's really that productive10 hours a day, six to seven days a week?
Nobody.

No, you've got basically three, four, maybe five
hours of really intense work thatany person can do focused in a day.
That's just the reality of how brains

work.
Yep, unfortunately.
We wish it was different, but it's not.

We do.
But there are other things you can do.
It's not like you can't studyand do something that's a
little bit less mentally taxing.
But for your really focusedstudy time, you cannot do massive
quantities in one day, becauseyour brain isn't going to let you.

We also encourage you to look at the MBE question bank
programs, such as UWorld and AdaptiBar.
I do think that they are still thebest way to prepare for the MBE.
And if you're in California,for now, we do think that...

Oh my gosh.
The quasi-MBE.

We do think that you should still prepare for the multiple-choice
California exam using the same tools.
And really another thing that Ithink is not often discussed enough
is what is your budget, and whatare some of these bar prep costs
really going to cost you long-term?
Nobody really likes to talkabout money, except us.

(11:16):
We love to talk aboutmoney on this podcast.
But let's take an example.
If your bar prep program costs $5,000 andyou put that on a credit card with a high
APR, that can hang out there for a verylong time and not be a great solution for
you, that is going be exponentially more
expensive.

(11:37):
If you cannot pay off that bar prepprogram quickly, you're really signing
up for some long-term financial hits.
So, I want you to really sit down witha budget, and we even have a podcast
episode on this that will link to,with the founder of You Need a Budget,
about how you budget for times likethis, because no one really wants to

(11:57):
talk about how much this stuff costs.
It's an expensive space, and youneed to be thoughtful about how
much money you're throwing at this.
And most people aren't going to havefirm jobs that are just writing them
checks to pay for bar prep programs.

Right.
And even then you might have to pay for itand get paid back, which the firm doesn't
really think about, but you're a student.
People could take bar loans,there are lots of things.
I think that's a great episode,the You Need a Budget one.
Actually, I really thought itwas very interesting and you
guys really broke it down.
So, if budget is a concern forpeople, I would definitely go
listen to that, because I thinkthat is a legitimate concern here.

Yeah.
Something that a lot of people aretalking to us about right now is trying
to study early for the bar, using thespring semester as part of their bar prep.
So, if you are considering doingthis, what should somebody focus on?

Well, I think you have to look at your school schedule.
Obviously, your highestpriority is to finish your
classes successfully, graduate.
Those grades are going to follow youaround, so I don't want people to
completely blow off their classes.
But I do think it's a good idea toat least start thinking about this.
You know what's going to beon the bar, broadly speaking.
You can start reviewing somematerials from your first year.

(13:04):
I think the performance test is alwaysa great option, because a lot of that
is you need to see some of them anddo some of them and work through it.
And you don't have tomemorize anything for that.
So that's always one of mygo-to's for the spring semester.
What about you?

Yeah.
A lot of students will end up taking somesort of bar prep class or bar prep kind
of adjacent class in that spring semester.
I taught some of thoseclasses at some law schools.
My advice is, especially ifyou're going to sign up for one of
those, you should pay attention.
It always blew my mind when studentsin my classes, because it was a
pass/fail class, would kind of blowit off, or not do the assignments,

(13:40):
or clearly not put any effort.
And I just wanted to stand up inthe front and stomp my feet, which
I didn't do, but I thought about it.
It's not really free, because they'repaying for law school, but this is
additional prep time with someone who'sgiving you feedback and teaching you about
the test, and you're going to have tosit for this test in just a few months.
Like, please, please,please, pay attention.
So I think that that's a great exampleof just utilizing what your school

(14:02):
has, and getting the most out of it.
And that in and of itself is early prep.
So I think that's really important.

Yeah, definitely.
I do think people don't take things likethat seriously because they just feel
like, "Oh, it's one last thing I have todo", but this is really going to save you
in the summer if you have already gottensome of these skills, if you maybe already
have looked at some of this material.
Even things like UWorld orAdaptiBar, you might get access
just after the February bar.
So you could actually start doingat least some MBE questions.

(14:32):
It doesn't have to be crazy; we're nottelling you to do 20 hours a week here.
But even just doing 10 questions everynow and then is going to help you start
to understand what these questions arelike, how you might approach them, gaining
you some familiarity with the material.
We can link to podcasts on spacedrepetition, which is the idea
that you need to see the materialrepeatedly for it to be in your memory.

(14:54):
But you could start doing somethinglike that in 10 minutes a day, and
you would have a lot of this materialin your head by the time you actually
started bar prep, and it wouldprobably be a lot less overwhelming.

Yeah.
I think that's something that is reallyhard for just generally humans, but I
think also Type A folks, including myself,is to realize that small investments
in what I call the "study bank", dayover day, really start to add up.
If you memorize one or two rules every dayfor the entire spring semester, you would

(15:26):
have most of your bar prep memorized bythe time you get to the beginning of July.
I mean, it's really wild whenyou start thinking about that.
I was just discussing this with my son.
He didn't buy it either, eventhough I laid out the math for him.
But we aren't really good at thesesmall steps to lead us to a goal.

(15:46):
But if you can be disciplinedabout it, if you can just invest
15 minutes every day, you might beamazed at what you can get done.

I think that's so true.
I really do.
And I know it's hard to even thinkthat that might actually be effective,
if you're probably listening to thissaying like, "Oh, 10 minutes, that's
not going to make any difference."
It makes a really big difference.
There's science.
There's science behind it.

Such a difference.
Yeah, so give

try.

it a try.

I would honestly say that's probably one of the
most key things, is just go getthe spaced repetition deck or make
your own and start memorizing that

stuff.
Yeah.
10 minutes a day, 15 minutes a day.
Everyone's got 10 to 15 minutes.

We know that you can have a coffee at some point
and take 10 minutes to do this.
Make it a new habit.

I know, right?
And you can stack the habits.
There's a whole other episodeon this habit-stacking.
Something that people talk to us on thephone about a lot are accommodations,
which I think is really becomingmore and more of a concern for
folks, this access to accommodations.
So, if you are planning to applyfor accommodations for the bar,

(16:53):
what do you need to do in your3L year to get ready for that?

Well, I think this is also one where you have to start this
process early, because they take foreverin a lot of states to give you an answer.
We've had people who are prepping up untilliterally the week before, not knowing
if they're going to have extra time.
That's not a situation you want to be in.
So, you need to understandeverything that needs to be
submitted, what you're going to need.

(17:19):
And just go ahead and get thatdone, because you may have to
appeal, there may be follow-ups.
You definitely do not want towait for the last minute on

this.
No.
And I'd like to reiteratethat appeal issue.
Some states do allow you to appeal,and if you apply too late - and
by "too late", I mean very closeto the deadline - you will not get
your answer back in time to appeal.
And I know a lot of folks thinkthat if you have to appeal, you
will just get rejected again,and that is absolutely not true.
I have seen appeals overturn anaccommodation decision, especially

(17:51):
if they're looking for additionaldocumentation, which sometimes
that's what they want from an appeal.
So, early gives you more options.
And I know it can be hard because thedocumentation can be really intimidating.
You should be able to go toyour bar website, download the
application, or write to them ifyou can't find it on the website.

(18:11):
You need to find out what sortof documentation they need.
Some states have requirementsabout how long it has been since
you've been diagnosed, whether ornot you are consistently seeking
medical attention on these issues.
You sometimes have to getletters from medical providers.
It can be a different standard thanyour law school's accommodation process.

(18:33):
So, knowledge is power.
Get the information so you don'tleave this opportunity on the table
because you didn't do it in time.

Right.
And if you're taking the UBE, you canalso think about where you might want
to sit if you have accommodations.
Some states are notoriously moredifficult for accommodations than others.
So, look around.
And remember this doesn't just have tobe an accommodation that you've had.
If you had an accommodation yourentire school career - yeah, it's
going to be a lot easier to get it.
But maybe there are new things thathave come up, whether a physical

(19:03):
issue, or if you're a breastfeedingmom, whatever it might be.
There could be things that youdon't have a record for that
you also might want to look at.
Do you just need time tostretch occasionally because
you have a bad back now?
Something like that may be worth applying,but you need to kind of look into it, look
at what the likelihood of getting themare, and what you need to do to do it.

If you are getting extended time, you should talk to your bar
providers about how they may adjustyour study schedule or timed exams and
things like that for any extended time.
So, it's a great question toask your bar review providers
when you're shopping around.

Right.
And if you are getting extra time, Ithink you need to think seriously either
about starting early, so you have extratime to prep, or maybe not sitting for
the July exam and giving yourself timeto be successful on the February test.
It always surprises me when I seepeople who are getting time and a half,
maybe even double time, and they thinkthat they're going to study in the

(20:02):
same eight to ten weeks that somebodywho's getting the standard time.
I'm like, "How is thatgoing to work exactly?
You're getting this extratime for some reason, right?
So it's probably going to takeyou longer to study as well,
and I think you need to plan

for that."
Yeah, I think that's really true.
Another question we get asked a lot ishow to balance your life and bar prep.
Such a great time of life.

That's a great question.
Really great question.
Well, you have a story around this.
Hadn't you recently starteddating your now-husband?

I did.
Yes, my husband and I met rightbefore I started my 3L year.
And then we were livingtogether during the bar.
And it was intense.
He did not have lawyers in hisfamily, he had never experienced it.
He was not prepared.
My parents sat him down, who areboth lawyers, and told him he wasn't
allowed to break up with me thatsummer, no matter what I did or

(20:50):
what he felt that he needed to do.
They said that he was just not allowed,that I got a free pass all summer.
I didn't know about that when it happens.
I was told about that afterwards.
And then even at our wedding a couple ofyears later, he did put in his wedding
vows that he knew I was the one whenhe lived through bar prep with me.

(21:12):
And I thought that was romantic.
I think he might have called me a lunatic.
I can't remember.
There was some colorful phrasing.
It's gotten fuzzy.
We've been married a long time now.

Well, I think if you survived that, you
could probably survive most

anything.
It's true.

Because realistically, it is a very, very intense time for everyone.
We are all probably prettyType A, overachievers.
People who are lawyers tend not to reallylove uncertainty, and this is a process
that is very uncertain throughout.
You never quite feel like you know enough.
So I think you just have to makea plan in advance for it, and also

(21:48):
get a support system in place.
Do you know that you're proneto anxiety and things like that?
Well, you probably need a therapistwho you're meeting with regularly.
And as much as you can, I thinkit's good to treat this like a
full-time job, but be realistic aboutyour breaks, your personal time.
You're going to probably need to bepretty structured, just to have time to
fit in your exercise and your laundryand cooking and all of these things.

(22:12):
You want to clear your schedule for thesummer as much as you can, but sometimes
I think that trips people up too.
I've talked to people recently whofailed, who said, "I just went all in.
I ignored my kids, I focused completelyon this, and in the end, I don't think
it was great for my mental well-being."
And I can absolutely see that.
I think you have to try tobe as balanced as possible.
Yeah,

I think life doesn't stop.
You can put some parameters on it, but Ithink especially if you have significant
others, children, friends, dogs.
I mean, my cat didn't reallycare if I'm studying for the bar.
But generally speaking, I think you needto still invest in what you have going on.
Now, there's a limit to that, right?
I don't recommend getting married duringbar prep - we have heard that, or moving.

(22:54):
Moving during bar prep isalso really distracting.
Or both.
That's true, or both.
But I do think that you are wise totry and take care of what you can,
and then save your free time for thethings that are really meaningful.
So, do you really need to getyour eyes checked during bar prep?
Could you take care of that before?

(23:15):
That may not be the bestway to use an afternoon.
But going hiking with a friend on a Sundaymorning to get some sunshine - maybe
that is worth the break, because it'sgoing to clear your head and you're
going to get some social interaction.
And it's even better if that friend'snot studying for the bar, because then
they will talk to you about other things.

True.
Yeah, when I was studying for theCalifornia bar, I got the unlimited
yoga pass at the studio close to myhouse and I was going twice a day.
And I think that was actually greatbecause it got me out of the house, I
got some exercise, it was very calming.
At some point they asked me why I wasthere so frequently all of a sudden.
I said I was studying for the barand the woman says, "Oh, maybe
you should come three times day
in case."

Yeah.
I do think though that one of the thingsthat we oftentimes aren't really great
about is saying how people can help us.
So, if you have family and friends whoare coming to you saying, "What can
I do to help you prep for the bar?",you might want to kind of prepare some
answers of things that could be helpful.
Could they be making you freezer meals,and so you can just thaw a can of soup,

(24:14):
or lasagna, or whatever out of yourfreezer so you don't have to cook?
Or do you have a dog?
Could they walk your dog?
Or could they come over and cleanyour house with you, so you have
some social interaction, but you'renot doing all of your chores alone?
Or could they run some errands for you?
I think that that's something you can do.
And folks like to help if you cansay, "This is what would help."

(24:34):
Or a gift certificate to get a massage,or a yoga pass, or a new pair of running
shoes so you can go run in the park.
It doesn't really matter what it is.
But if you can tell people whatyou need, you are more likely
to receive what you need.
And I think that's a reallypowerful life lesson.
And as I get older and wiser, I seeit play out over and over again.

(24:57):
And I think it just really helpseveryone feel like they can both
be supportive and be supported.

Right.
And I think that makes so much moresense than people just guessing, because
then they're getting you somethingthat you don't want and don't need.
And it's probably a stressor for you,versus, "You know what would be really
helpful, is if you could give me a giftcertificate to Instacart, so someone
else could go grocery shop for me."
That would be amazing.
I'd be like, "Great.
I will do that."

Yeah.
Yeah.
I was thinking about this.
Last week, I had to run totwo different drugstores.
I won't bore you with why; itwas bad planning on my part.
But it took me like an hourand a half to run that errand.
There was traffic around one of them,and then the line in one of them was
long, and then my phone died and Icouldn't pull up the receipt that I

(25:45):
needed to take care of the one thing.
And I just realized how you can getinto these moments where you're not even
doing anything that mission-critical.
These were all just errands that neededto be run, but because of the time
that I picked to run the errand, whichprobably wasn't my best choice, and the
poor location that I was in, I ended upburning a good chunk of my afternoon.
And that's where I think a little bitof pre-planning or asking for help can

(26:08):
come into play, so you don't lose hoursdoing things that are of no value.
And it's not like going to CVS isreally a happy outing for most people.
No.
This is where it might make sense toplan ahead and get the prescription

that you use every day mailed to you in
advance, so you have extra.

So you don't lose 90 minutes of your life to the lines at CVS.

Yeah.
Anytime I try to order somethingonline now, I really try to order with
extra time and not at the last minute.
So then I'm like, "Oh, you know what?
If it doesn't come fora week, that's fine."
Because otherwise it's like, "Oh, I haveto pay extra to get it here faster."
And it's just like, "Oh no."
I know.
So,

these little things of planning ahead in the spring can just
lighten your mental load, and as much asyou can automate or get things set up, it
just gives you less stuff to stress about.
Because life will happen andsomething will still happen during
bar prep - your car is going to breakdown, or a friend's going to need
something, or a family member willneed something, because that is life.
So, plan for what you can.

Exactly.

Thanks for listening!
Join us next time forpart two of this episode!

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