May 5, 2025 • 28 mins
Welcome back to the Law School Toolbox podcast! Today we're speaking to guest Angela Corbett -- a licensed clinical social worker and a certified addictions professional -- about maintaining mental health in law school. We discuss the impact of chronic stress, the importance of support systems and self-care, and recognizing when to seek professional help.
In this episode we discuss:
- Introduction to our guest and her work
- The long-term effects of a stressful lifestyle
- Specific struggles in a high-stakes educational environment
- How to stay mentally healthy in law school
- When it might be time to seek professional help
Resources
- TrueCandor (https://truecandor.com/)
- LinkedIn: Angela Corbett (https://www.linkedin.com/in/angela-corbett-lcsw-qs-cap-59b082a5/)
- Recovery Dharma (https://recoverydharma.org/)
- Podcast Episode 123: Mental Health in Law School and the Legal Profession (with Sarah Weinstein) (https://lawschooltoolbox.com/podcast-episode-123-mental-health-law-school-legal-profession-sarah-weinstein/)
- How to Take Care of Your Mental Health in Law School (https://lawschooltoolbox.com/law-school-and-mental-health/)
Download the Transcript
(https://lawschooltoolbox.com/episode-502-protecting-your-mental-health-in-law-school-w-angela-corbett/)
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Thanks for listening!
Alison & Lee
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alison Monahan (00:02):
Welcome back to the Law School Toolbox podcast.
Today we're excited to havetherapist Angela Corbett here
with us to talk about protectingyour mental health in law school.
Your Law School Toolbox hosttoday is Alison Monahan, and
typically, I'm with Lee Burgess.
We're here to demystify the law schooland early legal career experience,
so that you'll be the best lawstudent and lawyer you can be.
(00:22):
Together, we're the co-creators of the LawSchool Toolbox, the Bar Exam Toolbox, and
the career-related website CareerDicta.
I also run The Girl's Guide to Law School.
If you enjoy the show, please leave areview or rating on your favorite listing
app, and if you have any questions,don't hesitate to reach out to us.
You can always reach us via thecontact form on LawSchoolToolbox.com,
and we would love to hear from you.
(00:44):
And you can check out the Bar Exam Toolboxpodcast if the bar exam is on your radar.
And with that, let's get started.
Welcome back to the LawSchool Toolbox podcast.
Today we're excited to havetherapist Angela Corbett here
with us to talk about protectingyour mental health in law school.
(01:05):
Welcome, Angela.
Angela Corbett (01:06):
Hi Alison.
Thanks for having me.
Alison Monahan (01:08):
Oh, good to see you again.
To start us off, can you give ourlisteners just some basic information
about your background and your work,just so they have some context here?
Angela Corbett (01:17):
Yeah, of course.
So again, my name is Angela.
I am a licensed clinical social workerand a certified addictions professional.
I work out of the state of Florida.
I've been a therapist now for 16 years.
And I also own a therapy grouppractice called TrueCandor,
here in the state of Florida.
Alison Monahan (01:38):
And if people want to learn more about you or possibly
reach out, how can they do that?
Angela Corbett (01:43):
Yeah, they can do that by going to our
website, which is TrueCandor.com.
Alison Monahan (01:47):
Awesome.
Well, it's no secret thatlaw school is stressful.
And the unfortunate reality is that thisexperience can really negatively impact
people - I mean, I ended up clinicallydepressed my second semester in law school
- even when you might not have struggledwith your mental health in the past.
So, what do we know about howprolonged stress and this kind of
(02:09):
experience really impacts people?
Angela Corbett (02:11):
Yeah, no, that's a great question.
And what we have learned throughthe research is that our nervous
systems are not set up to bein a chronic state of stress.
So, the way that our nervous systemsoperate is that we encounter a dangerous
either predator, event, our bodyreleases cortisol, adrenaline gets us
(02:34):
moving, gets us to safety, and thenwe go back to our baseline state.
However, when we are in stressfulsituations for prolonged periods of
time, we are getting hits of adrenaline,cortisol over and over and over again.
And that's just not the way that ourbodies are set up to manage stress.
(02:55):
So, ultimately, some of theconsequences of that are going to
be fatigue, because we're runningon 10 and we're not made to do that.
Depression, anxiety - all of thosethings start coming up when we are
constantly being exposed to stress.
So, it's really not good for ourbrains, our bodies, our mental
(03:15):
health, and our physical health.
Alison Monahan (03:17):
Yeah, I definitely found that to be true.
I did a different master's programbefore I went to law school,
and it was very intense, verystressful, no one was sleeping.
And I looked back once at a photo frommaybe the first couple of weeks of school,
and at the end of the year looked back atthat photo and everyone in that picture
looked like they had aged 10 years.
Angela Corbett (03:38):
That's horrible.
Alison Monahan (03:39):
It was actually really shocking.
Everyone was like, "Oh mygosh, this does not seem good."
Angela Corbett (03:45):
It reminds me of, I don't know if you've seen those memes
of kids on the first day of school.
The parents send them off andthey're all fresh and put together,
and they come home, their hair'srearranged, their outfits are all torn.
Yeah, so kind of illustrateswhat it's like living under
chronically stressful conditions.
Alison Monahan (04:04):
Yeah.
And I feel sometimes like law schoolis really set up just to maximize
stress, because it mostly involvesone exam at the end of the semester.
I mean, some places have midtermsnow a little bit more, but the bulk
of your grade is set up for this oneoften three to four-hour experience.
And that's kind of a crazy way totest people if you want them to
(04:26):
stay not totally losing their minds.
Angela Corbett (04:29):
Yeah, I think that's probably the way that it's been
done for centuries at this point.
But that's high pressure, right?
To have to retain all of thisinformation, make sure that you
are able to recall all of it.
And how long do these teststypically take, Alison?
Alison Monahan (04:50):
I mean, often if they're in-class, they're three to four hours.
Sometimes you might get like aneight-hour take-home or 24-hour take-home.
But the most standard law schooltest is still the three to four-hour
time pressure in-class exam.
Angela Corbett (05:04):
So that's three to four hours of sitting there with
an elevated heart rate, sustainedconcentration, not meeting your
biological needs, I'm assuming.
Alison Monahan (05:13):
No.
Angela Corbett (05:14):
Perfect storm for a nice little anxiety attack.
So, yeah, in an ideal world, youwould absolutely test at different
intervals throughout the semester, sothat people can manage their stress
in a more effective way, becauseultimately what I'm hearing - and I
(05:36):
know that this happens in other graduateprograms as well - is that this is
kind of a "make it or break it" moment.
So you don't get do-oversthroughout the semester, right?
So you go in already with the mindsetthat, "Oh my gosh, if I don't pass
this, I have to re-do all theseclasses, all this semester." And it's
just not conducive, again, to the waythat our nervous systems are set up.
(05:58):
And a lot of empathy for law schoolstudents that have to operate
again and again in these types ofenvironments that are really just
not set up for you to succeed, right?
So, we look at performance, right?
Just like overallperformance as human beings.
Alison Monahan (06:17):
No, I totally agree with you on the testing aspect.
I also don't think it's agreat way to let people learn.
The other thing that is very difficultfor a lot of people in law school,
which you may have heard about,is the way that they do classes.
So, they have the Socratic method.
Not every professor still does this,but the classic way that it's done
is, you never know if you're goingto be called on on a certain day.
(06:39):
And so, you might walk into the classand the professor says, "Oh, Ms. Corbett,
tell me about this case." And now you'reon the spot in front of the entire class.
It can get a little hairy for people.
Angela Corbett (06:52):
Yeah, especially, I can imagine those that maybe have social
anxiety, perhaps didn't get a lot of sleepthe night before, maybe had a fight with
your significant other leading up to that.
Yeah, that doesn't soundlike a good time at all.
And again, it's all about that nervoussystem activation, so it sounds
like what I'm hearing is that lawschool keeps you all in an activated
(07:14):
state pretty much the entire time.
And when we look at the neuroscienceof how things are supposed to work...
And I get that this is not the onlycircumstance where people have to
live in kind of a heightened state,but nervous system activation.
We encounter a threat, we respond tothe threat, then we go back to baseline.
(07:37):
So we activate our parasympatheticnervous system - the rest and digest.
And so, that's where we're supposed tobe hanging out the majority of the time.
And then we go into nervoussystem activation when we
need to protect ourselves.
And my concern - and this is for lawstudents and just I think the state
(07:57):
of the world now - is that we were notmeant to live in an activated state
consistently over long periods of time.
And there is a lot of research thatconnects stress to our physical health,
cardiovascular disease, autoimmunity,diabetes, and then obviously as a
(08:18):
therapist, I look at the mental healthcomponent and just the incidents, the
prevalence of anxiety, depression.
Unfortunately, some people go evenfurther and they feel like they can't
take it anymore, and so then youhave to worry about people's safety.
So yeah, it's definitely an issue.
Alison Monahan (08:38):
Right.
And I thought it was interesting,earlier you mentioned being
an addiction specialist.
I think that also comes into play fora lot of people, partly because there's
just such a normalized culture ofdrinking, often to excess, in law school.
Like once a week we had what theycall "bar review", and everybody
met at a bar at a certain time.
It was just very normal.
Also, I was in law school in New York,so people already were drinking a lot.
(09:01):
But I think a lot of that startsfor people, or at least gets
exacerbated and then becomes aproblem for them in the profession.
Lawyers do not have thebest rates of things.
They have a lot of alcoholism,a lot of mental health thing.
Lawyers are not a healthy professionin general, and I think a lot of
that really starts in law school.
And what you said about being inthat heightened state really did
(09:23):
resonate with me, because I thinkback and I think how often in a day
was I actually relaxed and breathing?
Well, I think like 10% maybe, ifthat in an average day, maybe if
I was at a gym class or something.
I mean, it had to be this veryexplicit thing that, "Now I'm
taking time off to try to relax."
Angela Corbett (09:44):
Right.
As opposed to that just being thenorm for you, like, "I'm normally in
a relaxed state, and then occasionallyI have to amp things up to get
through this difficult period."
Alison Monahan (09:56):
Yeah.
Listening to you, it's not reallyshocking, probably, that I ended up
completely fried after the first semester.
For me, also, I had really chronicinsomnia when I was trying to
study for exams, because I wasstudying really intensely all day,
and then I'd carefully blocked outeight hours in my day to sleep.
But there's no way you couldjust fall asleep at that point.
Angela Corbett (10:17):
Right.
Alison Monahan (10:17):
That's not going to happen.
Angela Corbett (10:18):
It doesn't happen at all.
Again, at that point if youlook at even your vital signs,
your heart rate's accelerated,your blood pressure is higher.
It's hard to downregulate quicklyso that you could just fall asleep.
The research shows that we need quitea few hours to transition to be able
to get restful, restorative sleep.
(10:38):
And so the idea that like, "I'm goingto study until 10:00 o'clock and then
I'm going to go to bed at 10:30" wedon't unfortunately have the ability,
most of us anyway, don't have theability to just like turn off the
switch and go to sleep immediately.
And then you have that vicious cycleof not getting enough sleep, and you're
tired and your cognitive functioning isimpaired, and your ability to respond
(11:01):
to and manage stress is impaired.
And now you have this whole viciouscycle of not getting enough sleep,
having the impacts of it the next day,and then not getting enough sleep.
It's like a "wash, rinse,repeat" type of thing.
So.
Alison Monahan (11:15):
Right, yeah, then you start being like, "Well, maybe
I should just have a few glassesof wine. Maybe that would help."
Angela Corbett (11:19):
it's interesting when you mentioned... I think back
into my early career, I internedat a substance abuse rehabilitation
facility for impaired professionals.
Alison Monahan (11:31):
Hmm.
Angela Corbett (11:31):
And so, it was lawyers, therapists, doctors, pilots, really
high performers, and it was always full.
That does not surprise me.
There was always a waitinglist and it was always full.
And also, as you were talking aboutit, I started going in a different
direction and I was thinkingabout even core beliefs, right?
So you have the people that pursuethese types of professions already have
(11:54):
this sense of, "I have something toprove. I cannot fail, I must succeed."
So they already have these prettyrigid negative core beliefs, which
some could argue are not so negative,because they end up producing positive
results in these high-performingprofessions, but they usually stem...
Kind of.
Yeah.
Well, in these highlyregarded professions, right?
(12:14):
Like, "Oh, you're a lawyer, you're adoctor." I think there is probably a large
group or subgroup of law students whofeel like they have something to prove,
or feel like they don't want to let theirfamily down and this is the only way that
they can live up to the expectation, is tosuccessfully finish law school, pass the
bar, go on, make lots of money, make theirparents proud, those types of things.
(12:38):
But when you look at the incidentsof substance abuse, paired with
trauma, paired with low self-esteem,paired with perfectionism there's
a correlation there, right?
And so, what I'm hearing is that while inlaw school, probably many of the students
are self-medicating, because they can'tdownregulate, because they're so stressed
(12:59):
out that they can't just be like, "Okay,I'm going to go to sleep now." So it's
like, "Alright, what helps with that?
Well, a couple of glasses of wine."And then I'm sleeping, but I'm
not getting restorative sleep.
Alison Monahan (13:07):
Right.
Angela Corbett (13:08):
The data that I've been receiving all day long, I'm not
processing things the way that I needto during the REM cycle, which is where
a lot of that information is stored andsorted, in implicit, explicit memory.
We won't get into all of that, butit's a really important piece of our
health - both our mental and physicalhealth - is getting restorative sleep.
(13:29):
And so, that's not happening whenyou've taken a couple of downers
or had a couple of glasses ofwine or whatever the case may be.
But yeah, there's definitelycorrelation there.
I can see what you're saying where someof those habits maybe start while in
school and then just continue to progress.
They typically don't get better withoutintervention, so that is a slippery slope.
Alison Monahan (13:49):
Definitely.
Well, I feel like so far we havebeen kind of on a downer train here,
so let's shift gears a little bit.
I think everyone can agree that there arecertain factors, both in the personality
of someone who goes to law school andalso in the educational system that
are probably going to be challenging.
Like you said, a lot ofperfectionism, a lot of competition,
(14:11):
everything's graded on a curve.
But what advice do you have for peoplewho are either thinking about law
school or they're in law school andsaying, "I want to go through this in a
different way. I want to manage this"?
What are some kind of techniquesor strategies or just ideas that
people might think about to staymentally healthy in law school?
Angela Corbett (14:32):
Yeah.
Well, first I would say kudosto them for being aware enough
that there is another option.
There're some alternative ways to beable to go through law school without
losing yourself in the process.
I think that right there is astrength and asset to anybody
who's able and willing to do that.
(14:53):
Beyond that, I would say that it can bereally helpful to have a support system.
And I know when I hear people saythat personally, I'm always like, "In
this day and age, making new friends,meeting new people is so hard." And I
can imagine it's especially hard forlaw students who are studying for eight
(15:13):
hours a day, and that's life right now.
However, it doesn't meanthat's still not important.
Even if we kind of cringe at theword "support system", cliches
are cliches for a reason, becausethere's truth behind them.
And so, having a strong supportsystem is really important.
It doesn't necessarily have tobe family or significant others.
(15:34):
It can be an online community,it can be your study mates.
And just knowing that you have peoplethat you can commiserate with and say,
"Hey, I'm having a hard time", andhearing other people say back to you, "Me
too", so that we don't feel so othered,we don't feel like we're the only ones
struggling, we're the only ones failing.
So, being able to have your experiencesmirrored back to you is really important.
(15:58):
And in this day and age, I feel likethere're more and more tools to be
able to connect with people, even ifit's digitally as opposed to in-person.
Though I will say in-person is preferred.
We have these things called "mirrorneurons", and so when we're in
the same space as another person,we can help regulate each other.
(16:19):
So, in-person is definitelypreferred, but I also recognize
that there're limitations.
So, having a strong onlinecommunity, either a forum, some
type of support group, if you dofind that you're maybe drinking,
smoking too much, maybe some type ofonline 12-step or recovery program.
Recovery Dharma's a reallygood one, because it's very
meditation-based, not so dogmatic.
(16:41):
But just some type of support system.
I would also highly recommend if youhave the ability to find a therapist.
I had a lot of medical studentsand law students in my career when
I was still seeing patients more.
I still see them, but it's much smallercaseload now that I'm running my business.
But at that time, oh man, theywere like cycling through.
(17:05):
But it was really good, I was proud ofthem because they were recognizing that
"I'm having a difficult time and I'm goingto ask for help." And so, being able to
have a professional that's able to kindof give you feedback, reframe things like,
"Is this really the end of the world?
How else can we look at this?" Asking"What's your sleep like, schedule?
Are you eating?
Are you drinking?" These arethings that we know, but sometimes
(17:27):
we need to be reminded of them.
And so, having somebody that'skind of checking in about those
things (17:32):
Are you exercising?
Are you getting vitamin D?
Are you going outside?
That can be really impactful.
I think the biggest thing though isthat the way in which we take care of
ourselves is often very small tweaks,we just have to be willing to do them.
Maybe you don't have access to atherapist, you don't have time,
(17:52):
maybe you don't have time to godo some online support group, but
can you go outside and walk for 10minutes, and get vitamin D, fresh air?
Can you leave your phone, so that you'rejust being mindful, present in the moment?
Can you get enough waterthroughout the day?
Can you have a timer on yourphone to remind you to drink?
Because when we're dehydrated, thatalso increases our anxiety and our heart
(18:16):
rate and all of those types of things.
It also decreases our abilityto comprehend information.
So, can we stay hydrated?
Can we eat three meals a day?
Simple things like eating, drinking,sleeping, getting outside, moving our
bodies, can have a profound impact ifonly we're willing to prioritize them.
(18:37):
We all know this information.
These are future lawyers, they'resmart, there's no doubt about it.
But it's putting it into practice Ithink that can be a struggle, but can
have some really big payoffs at the end.
Alison Monahan (18:50):
Yeah.
There is this thing where you'll goto some sort of lunchtime presentation
and they have pizza, so people justend up eating pizza day after day.
Not that I don't love pizza, but itprobably was not the best thing to eat on
a five day a week basis, every single day.
And most schools do haveaccess to therapists.
(19:10):
I mean, that's how I startedtherapy, and I think it's one
of the best choices I ever made.
Basically it was like, "Huh, this doesnot seem to be going in a good path.
I can't get out of bed, I don'treally care if I go to class or not.
I think I might be depressed."And so, I showed up in the student
health and they're like, "Oh yes,of course, you're in law school.
Here you go." And no one was surprisedto see me there, they were all very kind.
(19:33):
But it really did set me on a path thatI think was actually life changing.
And Lee and I both always say youhave these resources available to you
through your school one way or another.
And this is a great time to actuallyprioritize that, because like
you're saying, these are skillsand mindset that you're going to
carry through into the career.
So, it's not like it gets easier whensuddenly you have clients who you need
(19:54):
to keep out of jail or whatever it is.
It's not like, "Oh, you graduated,now your life is not stressful."
Probably just gets more stressfulas you start working as a lawyer.
Angela Corbett (20:03):
Yeah.
No, that's actually a really goodpoint, being able to recognize.
I think sometimes that we fall victimto the idea, "If I can just get through
this semester, if I can just getthrough this week, it'll get better."
And then life keeps lifeing and thenyou're like, "It's not getting better."
And it's because it's life, right?
There're always going to be challenges.
So, learning how to ask for help, set yourlife up so that you're meeting your basic
(20:29):
biological needs, meeting your socialneeds, those types of things in the midst
of the sh*t storm - excuse my language.
But I think that is the key to successlong term, long-term sustainable success.
Alison Monahan (20:43):
Yeah.
I think of someone who works with us now,actually - who I just totally adore - but
he quit his job as a lawyer and walkedacross the country with his dog, and
then wrote a book about the experience.
And one of the things that I reallyremember from that book is he said his
mindset in the beginning was like, "IfI just get to point X, everything will
be okay." I can't remember if it was theMississippi River or whatever, but he's
(21:04):
like, "Once I get there, everything'sgoing to be okay." That's what drove
him on the first half of his trip.
And then he got there and herealized, "Okay, I'm here.
It's not any different." And now he'sreally shifted his mindset to, "Every day
I just decide if I want to be out here.
I get up in the morning, and is thiswhat I'm going to do or not?" And he's
like, "It was a really fundamental shift.
I just have to get to this pointand everything's going to be
(21:25):
great." He's like, "I realizeit's never going to be great.
It's just going to be what it is."
Angela Corbett (21:28):
Yeah.
I think that's a really healthy mindsetand a really positive reframe, is
recognizing that, "Every day is goingto have some challenges, and this
is what I'm going to do to meet thechallenges." And there still can be joy.
And I think there's been some moretalk around this concept of glimmers.
So we talk a lot about triggers,like "This is triggering to me,
that's triggering to me." And that'svalid, people get triggered for
(21:51):
all different kinds of reasons.
But also being able to recognizethe glimmers throughout our
day, like what's going right.
You know what I mean?
Like yesterday, personallyfor me, everything that could
go wrong was going wrong.
And I ended up with a nail in mytire and I was like, "Oh my God!"
Oh
Alison Monahan (22:07):
no!
Now
Angela Corbett (22:08):
I have to go stop at the tire shop and get this fixed.
And it was like an hour out of myday that I really did not have.
And when it was all said and done,the guy was like, "Don't worry." I
was like, "What do I owe you?" andhe's like, "Don't worry about it."
That was a glimmer, right?
That was an act of kindness, a momentthat I kind of paused and took that in.
I was like, "Thank you so much!" I hadsome gratitude for that and then I moved
on to the rest of my day, which there'rea lot of difficult points in it, but
(22:31):
being able to stop and pause and takein the good moments, like the acts of
kindness, like when things go right or"That was easier than I thought it was
going to be." Those are the glimmers.
When you have a good laugh with somebody,that deep belly laugh and you're like,
"Ah" afterwards - those are the glimmers.
And so, we do have to be willing andable to recognize and acknowledge
(22:52):
them throughout this process, becauseultimately that's what life is, right?
Alison Monahan (22:57):
Exactly.
Angela Corbett (22:57):
How you build a good life is by moments, not by stretches of time.
Alison Monahan (23:02):
Yeah.
Someone I know has a book and shedescribes those as "micro joys".
Angela Corbett (23:06):
Oh, I like that.
Alison Monahan (23:07):
Even in the midst of terrible things happening, and a lot
of terrible things did happen in thisparticular year for her, just outside
of her control, but she could still ina day look at and say, "Oh, the light
here is really amazing" or, "I'm goingto have this cup of tea and really
appreciate it." And I think you're right.
I mean, the more I go through life,the more I was like, it kind of
is what it is and you've got tolook for the good points in it.
Angela Corbett (23:27):
Yeah, notice the good.
Alison Monahan (23:29):
Yeah.
Alright, before we wrap up, if studentsare really finding themselves struggling,
what should they do, and how do peopleknow if it's bad enough that they need
to actually get some professional help?
Angela Corbett (23:40):
That is a fantastic question.
And so, I'm going to give thevery standard clinical answer.
So, clinical significant impairmentfor two weeks or more that is how we as
clinicians determine whether or not thisis just like a bad day, a bad week, or
if it requires some type of treatment.
(24:01):
So, if your domains of functioning - sothat's occupational, your social,
your medical, your health - anydegree of functioning is being
impaired significantly for two weeksor more, then it is time to get help.
So if you are not sleeping for two weeks,if your appetite is reduced for two
weeks, if you're crying every day fortwo weeks, if you are isolating more and
(24:28):
more for two weeks or more - go get help.
Alison Monahan (24:31):
Alright.
I think that's a great marker forpeople because it's very clear.
Everybody has a bad day, but for meit was like I wasn't sleeping, and
then I wasn't eating, and I wasn'tleaving my house at some point.
It's like, "Okay, this is probablynot going in a very good direction."
Angela Corbett (24:45):
Exactly.
Alison Monahan (24:47):
So, I'm very glad that I did reach out at that point, find help.
And frankly, I think itwas really life changing.
I did not end up depressedagain, and in retrospect, I
had been previous times before.
Angela Corbett (24:57):
That's awesome.
And can I just do a little plug for, Ithink in terms of going to seek help, that
can look different for different people.
I highly recommend going andgetting evaluated by a therapist,
but some people want to go themedication management route instead.
That is also okay.
Some people go see a yogateacher, and that's okay.
(25:20):
I think the idea that you're gettingsome type of support and you're
at least getting the ball rollingand you're open and willing to
receive help is a big indicatorof a good prognosis down the road.
Interesting.
Alison Monahan (25:36):
Yeah, I have my massage guy now, my acupuncture guy.
And I do feel like they really areactually very supportive of my mental
health, because we're friends now.
Angela Corbett (25:45):
Yeah, and there's not one-size-fits-all.
I know that some people culturally don'tfeel comfortable maybe talking about their
problems or their feelings to a stranger.
And so, yeah, going to acupunctureis a great way to still take care
of yourself and slow down and stillreceive some support as opposed to none.
Alison Monahan (26:05):
Yeah, I feel like that's where I go and I just need to do the
Control + Alt + Delete or turn thecomputer off and I turn myself back on.
I just feel like the wholesystem just got here.
I don't really know what happened,but, oh, everything is just better.
Like my energy shifted, yeah.
Yeah, totally.
It's like my Chi is moving or whatever.
or
Angela Corbett (26:23):
Yes, yes.
Exactly, exactly.
And again, I'm a hugeproponent for therapy.
I would love it if everybody would bewilling to go to therapy, but I'm also
recognizing the limitations that peoplehave, either personally, culturally,
financially, whatever the case may be.
And so, any help is still good enough.
Alison Monahan (26:41):
Yeah, I think that's totally fair.
And I think as a student, you havepaid for a lot of things, so you may
as well take advantage of some of them.
I mean, we got very discounted classesat the gym and things like that.
Even something like thatcan be a social outlet.
I started taking up squash, so I waslearning something, I was getting
exercise, and it was a social thing.
So, even something like that I feellike can be really meaningful if you're
(27:02):
just kind of in this funk of like, "Ugh,this sucks and I don't know what to do."
Angela Corbett (27:05):
Yeah.
I think the bottom line is, do something,
Alison Monahan (27:09):
Right.
Take some step.
Angela Corbett (27:10):
Take an action, exactly, and do something.
Don't just sit on it, because typicallyit's going to get worse, not better.
Alison Monahan (27:17):
No, I think that's totally fair.
Alright, well, any finalthoughts, Angela, you'd like to
share before we wrap up here?
Angela Corbett (27:23):
I think that was my final thought, so I think I'm good.
Alison Monahan (27:26):
Alright, awesome.
I think that's a great place to end.
Remind us again how peoplecan find out more about you.
Angela Corbett (27:30):
Yeah, so if they're interested, they can either find
me on LinkedIn - Angela Corbett,or you can go to my website,
which is www.TrueCandor.com.
Alison Monahan (27:41):
Awesome.
Well, we will link to allthat in the show notes.
Thank you so much for joining us.
I really appreciate it.
Angela Corbett (27:46):
You are so welcome.
It's my pleasure.
Oh, thanks.
If you enjoyed this episode of theLaw School Toolbox podcast, please
take a second to leave a review andrating on your favorite listening app.
We'd really appreciate it.
And be sure to subscribeso you don't miss anything.
If you have any questions or comments,please don't hesitate to reach out to
Lee or Alison at lee@lawschooltoolbox.comor alison@lawschooltoolbox.com.
(28:08):
Or you can always contactus via our website contact
form at LawSchoolToolbox.com.
Thanks for listening, and we'll talk soon!
Welcome back to the Law School Toolbox podcast.
Today we're excited to havetherapist Angela Corbett here
with us to talk about protectingyour mental health in law school.
Your Law School Toolbox hosttoday is Alison Monahan, and
typically, I'm with Lee Burgess.
We're here to demystify the law schooland early legal career experience,
so that you'll be the best lawstudent and lawyer you can be.
(00:22):
Together, we're the co-creators of the LawSchool Toolbox, the Bar Exam Toolbox, and
the career-related website CareerDicta.
I also run The Girl's Guide to Law School.
If you enjoy the show, please leave areview or rating on your favorite listing
app, and if you have any questions,don't hesitate to reach out to us.
You can always reach us via thecontact form on LawSchoolToolbox.com,
and we would love to hear from you.
(00:44):
And you can check out the Bar Exam Toolboxpodcast if the bar exam is on your radar.
And with that, let's get started.
Welcome back to the LawSchool Toolbox podcast.
Today we're excited to havetherapist Angela Corbett here
with us to talk about protectingyour mental health in law school.
(01:05):
Welcome, Angela.
Angela Corbett (01:06):
Hi Alison.
Thanks for having me.
Alison Monahan (01:08):
Oh, good to see you again.
To start us off, can you give ourlisteners just some basic information
about your background and your work,just so they have some context here?
Angela Corbett (01:17):
Yeah, of course.
So again, my name is Angela.
I am a licensed clinical social workerand a certified addictions professional.
I work out of the state of Florida.
I've been a therapist now for 16 years.
And I also own a therapy grouppractice called TrueCandor,
here in the state of Florida.
Alison Monahan (01:38):
And if people want to learn more about you or possibly
reach out, how can they do that?
Angela Corbett (01:43):
Yeah, they can do that by going to our
website, which is TrueCandor.com.
Alison Monahan (01:47):
Awesome.
Well, it's no secret thatlaw school is stressful.
And the unfortunate reality is that thisexperience can really negatively impact
people - I mean, I ended up clinicallydepressed my second semester in law school
- even when you might not have struggledwith your mental health in the past.
So, what do we know about howprolonged stress and this kind of
(02:09):
experience really impacts people?
Angela Corbett (02:11):
Yeah, no, that's a great question.
And what we have learned throughthe research is that our nervous
systems are not set up to bein a chronic state of stress.
So, the way that our nervous systemsoperate is that we encounter a dangerous
either predator, event, our bodyreleases cortisol, adrenaline gets us
(02:34):
moving, gets us to safety, and thenwe go back to our baseline state.
However, when we are in stressfulsituations for prolonged periods of
time, we are getting hits of adrenaline,cortisol over and over and over again.
And that's just not the way that ourbodies are set up to manage stress.
(02:55):
So, ultimately, some of theconsequences of that are going to
be fatigue, because we're runningon 10 and we're not made to do that.
Depression, anxiety - all of thosethings start coming up when we are
constantly being exposed to stress.
So, it's really not good for ourbrains, our bodies, our mental
(03:15):
health, and our physical health.
Alison Monahan (03:17):
Yeah, I definitely found that to be true.
I did a different master's programbefore I went to law school,
and it was very intense, verystressful, no one was sleeping.
And I looked back once at a photo frommaybe the first couple of weeks of school,
and at the end of the year looked back atthat photo and everyone in that picture
looked like they had aged 10 years.
Angela Corbett (03:38):
That's horrible.
Alison Monahan (03:39):
It was actually really shocking.
Everyone was like, "Oh mygosh, this does not seem good."
Angela Corbett (03:45):
It reminds me of, I don't know if you've seen those memes
of kids on the first day of school.
The parents send them off andthey're all fresh and put together,
and they come home, their hair'srearranged, their outfits are all torn.
Yeah, so kind of illustrateswhat it's like living under
chronically stressful conditions.
Alison Monahan (04:04):
Yeah.
And I feel sometimes like law schoolis really set up just to maximize
stress, because it mostly involvesone exam at the end of the semester.
I mean, some places have midtermsnow a little bit more, but the bulk
of your grade is set up for this oneoften three to four-hour experience.
And that's kind of a crazy way totest people if you want them to
(04:26):
stay not totally losing their minds.
Angela Corbett (04:29):
Yeah, I think that's probably the way that it's been
done for centuries at this point.
But that's high pressure, right?
To have to retain all of thisinformation, make sure that you
are able to recall all of it.
And how long do these teststypically take, Alison?
Alison Monahan (04:50):
I mean, often if they're in-class, they're three to four hours.
Sometimes you might get like aneight-hour take-home or 24-hour take-home.
But the most standard law schooltest is still the three to four-hour
time pressure in-class exam.
Angela Corbett (05:04):
So that's three to four hours of sitting there with
an elevated heart rate, sustainedconcentration, not meeting your
biological needs, I'm assuming.
Alison Monahan (05:13):
No.
Angela Corbett (05:14):
Perfect storm for a nice little anxiety attack.
So, yeah, in an ideal world, youwould absolutely test at different
intervals throughout the semester, sothat people can manage their stress
in a more effective way, becauseultimately what I'm hearing - and I
(05:36):
know that this happens in other graduateprograms as well - is that this is
kind of a "make it or break it" moment.
So you don't get do-oversthroughout the semester, right?
So you go in already with the mindsetthat, "Oh my gosh, if I don't pass
this, I have to re-do all theseclasses, all this semester." And it's
just not conducive, again, to the waythat our nervous systems are set up.
(05:58):
And a lot of empathy for law schoolstudents that have to operate
again and again in these types ofenvironments that are really just
not set up for you to succeed, right?
So, we look at performance, right?
Just like overallperformance as human beings.
Alison Monahan (06:17):
No, I totally agree with you on the testing aspect.
I also don't think it's agreat way to let people learn.
The other thing that is very difficultfor a lot of people in law school,
which you may have heard about,is the way that they do classes.
So, they have the Socratic method.
Not every professor still does this,but the classic way that it's done
is, you never know if you're goingto be called on on a certain day.
(06:39):
And so, you might walk into the classand the professor says, "Oh, Ms. Corbett,
tell me about this case." And now you'reon the spot in front of the entire class.
It can get a little hairy for people.
Angela Corbett (06:52):
Yeah, especially, I can imagine those that maybe have social
anxiety, perhaps didn't get a lot of sleepthe night before, maybe had a fight with
your significant other leading up to that.
Yeah, that doesn't soundlike a good time at all.
And again, it's all about that nervoussystem activation, so it sounds
like what I'm hearing is that lawschool keeps you all in an activated
(07:14):
state pretty much the entire time.
And when we look at the neuroscienceof how things are supposed to work...
And I get that this is not the onlycircumstance where people have to
live in kind of a heightened state,but nervous system activation.
We encounter a threat, we respond tothe threat, then we go back to baseline.
(07:37):
So we activate our parasympatheticnervous system - the rest and digest.
And so, that's where we're supposed tobe hanging out the majority of the time.
And then we go into nervoussystem activation when we
need to protect ourselves.
And my concern - and this is for lawstudents and just I think the state
(07:57):
of the world now - is that we were notmeant to live in an activated state
consistently over long periods of time.
And there is a lot of research thatconnects stress to our physical health,
cardiovascular disease, autoimmunity,diabetes, and then obviously as a
(08:18):
therapist, I look at the mental healthcomponent and just the incidents, the
prevalence of anxiety, depression.
Unfortunately, some people go evenfurther and they feel like they can't
take it anymore, and so then youhave to worry about people's safety.
So yeah, it's definitely an issue.
Alison Monahan (08:38):
Right.
And I thought it was interesting,earlier you mentioned being
an addiction specialist.
I think that also comes into play fora lot of people, partly because there's
just such a normalized culture ofdrinking, often to excess, in law school.
Like once a week we had what theycall "bar review", and everybody
met at a bar at a certain time.
It was just very normal.
Also, I was in law school in New York,so people already were drinking a lot.
(09:01):
But I think a lot of that startsfor people, or at least gets
exacerbated and then becomes aproblem for them in the profession.
Lawyers do not have thebest rates of things.
They have a lot of alcoholism,a lot of mental health thing.
Lawyers are not a healthy professionin general, and I think a lot of
that really starts in law school.
And what you said about being inthat heightened state really did
(09:23):
resonate with me, because I thinkback and I think how often in a day
was I actually relaxed and breathing?
Well, I think like 10% maybe, ifthat in an average day, maybe if
I was at a gym class or something.
I mean, it had to be this veryexplicit thing that, "Now I'm
taking time off to try to relax."
Angela Corbett (09:44):
Right.
As opposed to that just being thenorm for you, like, "I'm normally in
a relaxed state, and then occasionallyI have to amp things up to get
through this difficult period."
Alison Monahan (09:56):
Yeah.
Listening to you, it's not reallyshocking, probably, that I ended up
completely fried after the first semester.
For me, also, I had really chronicinsomnia when I was trying to
study for exams, because I wasstudying really intensely all day,
and then I'd carefully blocked outeight hours in my day to sleep.
But there's no way you couldjust fall asleep at that point.
Angela Corbett (10:17):
Right.
Alison Monahan (10:17):
That's not going to happen.
Angela Corbett (10:18):
It doesn't happen at all.
Again, at that point if youlook at even your vital signs,
your heart rate's accelerated,your blood pressure is higher.
It's hard to downregulate quicklyso that you could just fall asleep.
The research shows that we need quitea few hours to transition to be able
to get restful, restorative sleep.
(10:38):
And so the idea that like, "I'm goingto study until 10:00 o'clock and then
I'm going to go to bed at 10:30" wedon't unfortunately have the ability,
most of us anyway, don't have theability to just like turn off the
switch and go to sleep immediately.
And then you have that vicious cycleof not getting enough sleep, and you're
tired and your cognitive functioning isimpaired, and your ability to respond
(11:01):
to and manage stress is impaired.
And now you have this whole viciouscycle of not getting enough sleep,
having the impacts of it the next day,and then not getting enough sleep.
It's like a "wash, rinse,repeat" type of thing.
So.
Alison Monahan (11:15):
Right, yeah, then you start being like, "Well, maybe
I should just have a few glassesof wine. Maybe that would help."
Angela Corbett (11:19):
it's interesting when you mentioned... I think back
into my early career, I internedat a substance abuse rehabilitation
facility for impaired professionals.
Alison Monahan (11:31):
Hmm.
Angela Corbett (11:31):
And so, it was lawyers, therapists, doctors, pilots, really
high performers, and it was always full.
That does not surprise me.
There was always a waitinglist and it was always full.
And also, as you were talking aboutit, I started going in a different
direction and I was thinkingabout even core beliefs, right?
So you have the people that pursuethese types of professions already have
(11:54):
this sense of, "I have something toprove. I cannot fail, I must succeed."
So they already have these prettyrigid negative core beliefs, which
some could argue are not so negative,because they end up producing positive
results in these high-performingprofessions, but they usually stem...
Kind of.
Yeah.
Well, in these highlyregarded professions, right?
(12:14):
Like, "Oh, you're a lawyer, you're adoctor." I think there is probably a large
group or subgroup of law students whofeel like they have something to prove,
or feel like they don't want to let theirfamily down and this is the only way that
they can live up to the expectation, is tosuccessfully finish law school, pass the
bar, go on, make lots of money, make theirparents proud, those types of things.
(12:38):
But when you look at the incidentsof substance abuse, paired with
trauma, paired with low self-esteem,paired with perfectionism there's
a correlation there, right?
And so, what I'm hearing is that while inlaw school, probably many of the students
are self-medicating, because they can'tdownregulate, because they're so stressed
(12:59):
out that they can't just be like, "Okay,I'm going to go to sleep now." So it's
like, "Alright, what helps with that?
Well, a couple of glasses of wine."And then I'm sleeping, but I'm
not getting restorative sleep.
Alison Monahan (13:07):
Right.
Angela Corbett (13:08):
The data that I've been receiving all day long, I'm not
processing things the way that I needto during the REM cycle, which is where
a lot of that information is stored andsorted, in implicit, explicit memory.
We won't get into all of that, butit's a really important piece of our
health - both our mental and physicalhealth - is getting restorative sleep.
(13:29):
And so, that's not happening whenyou've taken a couple of downers
or had a couple of glasses ofwine or whatever the case may be.
But yeah, there's definitelycorrelation there.
I can see what you're saying where someof those habits maybe start while in
school and then just continue to progress.
They typically don't get better withoutintervention, so that is a slippery slope.
Alison Monahan (13:49):
Definitely.
Well, I feel like so far we havebeen kind of on a downer train here,
so let's shift gears a little bit.
I think everyone can agree that there arecertain factors, both in the personality
of someone who goes to law school andalso in the educational system that
are probably going to be challenging.
Like you said, a lot ofperfectionism, a lot of competition,
(14:11):
everything's graded on a curve.
But what advice do you have for peoplewho are either thinking about law
school or they're in law school andsaying, "I want to go through this in a
different way. I want to manage this"?
What are some kind of techniquesor strategies or just ideas that
people might think about to staymentally healthy in law school?
Angela Corbett (14:32):
Yeah.
Well, first I would say kudosto them for being aware enough
that there is another option.
There're some alternative ways to beable to go through law school without
losing yourself in the process.
I think that right there is astrength and asset to anybody
who's able and willing to do that.
(14:53):
Beyond that, I would say that it can bereally helpful to have a support system.
And I know when I hear people saythat personally, I'm always like, "In
this day and age, making new friends,meeting new people is so hard." And I
can imagine it's especially hard forlaw students who are studying for eight
(15:13):
hours a day, and that's life right now.
However, it doesn't meanthat's still not important.
Even if we kind of cringe at theword "support system", cliches
are cliches for a reason, becausethere's truth behind them.
And so, having a strong supportsystem is really important.
It doesn't necessarily have tobe family or significant others.
(15:34):
It can be an online community,it can be your study mates.
And just knowing that you have peoplethat you can commiserate with and say,
"Hey, I'm having a hard time", andhearing other people say back to you, "Me
too", so that we don't feel so othered,we don't feel like we're the only ones
struggling, we're the only ones failing.
So, being able to have your experiencesmirrored back to you is really important.
(15:58):
And in this day and age, I feel likethere're more and more tools to be
able to connect with people, even ifit's digitally as opposed to in-person.
Though I will say in-person is preferred.
We have these things called "mirrorneurons", and so when we're in
the same space as another person,we can help regulate each other.
(16:19):
So, in-person is definitelypreferred, but I also recognize
that there're limitations.
So, having a strong onlinecommunity, either a forum, some
type of support group, if you dofind that you're maybe drinking,
smoking too much, maybe some type ofonline 12-step or recovery program.
Recovery Dharma's a reallygood one, because it's very
meditation-based, not so dogmatic.
(16:41):
But just some type of support system.
I would also highly recommend if youhave the ability to find a therapist.
I had a lot of medical studentsand law students in my career when
I was still seeing patients more.
I still see them, but it's much smallercaseload now that I'm running my business.
But at that time, oh man, theywere like cycling through.
(17:05):
But it was really good, I was proud ofthem because they were recognizing that
"I'm having a difficult time and I'm goingto ask for help." And so, being able to
have a professional that's able to kindof give you feedback, reframe things like,
"Is this really the end of the world?
How else can we look at this?" Asking"What's your sleep like, schedule?
Are you eating?
Are you drinking?" These arethings that we know, but sometimes
(17:27):
we need to be reminded of them.
And so, having somebody that'skind of checking in about those
things (17:32):
Are you exercising?
Are you getting vitamin D?
Are you going outside?
That can be really impactful.
I think the biggest thing though isthat the way in which we take care of
ourselves is often very small tweaks,we just have to be willing to do them.
Maybe you don't have access to atherapist, you don't have time,
(17:52):
maybe you don't have time to godo some online support group, but
can you go outside and walk for 10minutes, and get vitamin D, fresh air?
Can you leave your phone, so that you'rejust being mindful, present in the moment?
Can you get enough waterthroughout the day?
Can you have a timer on yourphone to remind you to drink?
Because when we're dehydrated, thatalso increases our anxiety and our heart
(18:16):
rate and all of those types of things.
It also decreases our abilityto comprehend information.
So, can we stay hydrated?
Can we eat three meals a day?
Simple things like eating, drinking,sleeping, getting outside, moving our
bodies, can have a profound impact ifonly we're willing to prioritize them.
(18:37):
We all know this information.
These are future lawyers, they'resmart, there's no doubt about it.
But it's putting it into practice Ithink that can be a struggle, but can
have some really big payoffs at the end.
Alison Monahan (18:50):
Yeah.
There is this thing where you'll goto some sort of lunchtime presentation
and they have pizza, so people justend up eating pizza day after day.
Not that I don't love pizza, but itprobably was not the best thing to eat on
a five day a week basis, every single day.
And most schools do haveaccess to therapists.
(19:10):
I mean, that's how I startedtherapy, and I think it's one
of the best choices I ever made.
Basically it was like, "Huh, this doesnot seem to be going in a good path.
I can't get out of bed, I don'treally care if I go to class or not.
I think I might be depressed."And so, I showed up in the student
health and they're like, "Oh yes,of course, you're in law school.
Here you go." And no one was surprisedto see me there, they were all very kind.
(19:33):
But it really did set me on a path thatI think was actually life changing.
And Lee and I both always say youhave these resources available to you
through your school one way or another.
And this is a great time to actuallyprioritize that, because like
you're saying, these are skillsand mindset that you're going to
carry through into the career.
So, it's not like it gets easier whensuddenly you have clients who you need
(19:54):
to keep out of jail or whatever it is.
It's not like, "Oh, you graduated,now your life is not stressful."
Probably just gets more stressfulas you start working as a lawyer.
Angela Corbett (20:03):
Yeah.
No, that's actually a really goodpoint, being able to recognize.
I think sometimes that we fall victimto the idea, "If I can just get through
this semester, if I can just getthrough this week, it'll get better."
And then life keeps lifeing and thenyou're like, "It's not getting better."
And it's because it's life, right?
There're always going to be challenges.
So, learning how to ask for help, set yourlife up so that you're meeting your basic
(20:29):
biological needs, meeting your socialneeds, those types of things in the midst
of the sh*t storm - excuse my language.
But I think that is the key to successlong term, long-term sustainable success.
Alison Monahan (20:43):
Yeah.
I think of someone who works with us now,actually - who I just totally adore - but
he quit his job as a lawyer and walkedacross the country with his dog, and
then wrote a book about the experience.
And one of the things that I reallyremember from that book is he said his
mindset in the beginning was like, "IfI just get to point X, everything will
be okay." I can't remember if it was theMississippi River or whatever, but he's
(21:04):
like, "Once I get there, everything'sgoing to be okay." That's what drove
him on the first half of his trip.
And then he got there and herealized, "Okay, I'm here.
It's not any different." And now he'sreally shifted his mindset to, "Every day
I just decide if I want to be out here.
I get up in the morning, and is thiswhat I'm going to do or not?" And he's
like, "It was a really fundamental shift.
I just have to get to this pointand everything's going to be
(21:25):
great." He's like, "I realizeit's never going to be great.
It's just going to be what it is."
Angela Corbett (21:28):
Yeah.
I think that's a really healthy mindsetand a really positive reframe, is
recognizing that, "Every day is goingto have some challenges, and this
is what I'm going to do to meet thechallenges." And there still can be joy.
And I think there's been some moretalk around this concept of glimmers.
So we talk a lot about triggers,like "This is triggering to me,
that's triggering to me." And that'svalid, people get triggered for
(21:51):
all different kinds of reasons.
But also being able to recognizethe glimmers throughout our
day, like what's going right.
You know what I mean?
Like yesterday, personallyfor me, everything that could
go wrong was going wrong.
And I ended up with a nail in mytire and I was like, "Oh my God!"
Oh
Alison Monahan (22:07):
no!
Now
Angela Corbett (22:08):
I have to go stop at the tire shop and get this fixed.
And it was like an hour out of myday that I really did not have.
And when it was all said and done,the guy was like, "Don't worry." I
was like, "What do I owe you?" andhe's like, "Don't worry about it."
That was a glimmer, right?
That was an act of kindness, a momentthat I kind of paused and took that in.
I was like, "Thank you so much!" I hadsome gratitude for that and then I moved
on to the rest of my day, which there'rea lot of difficult points in it, but
(22:31):
being able to stop and pause and takein the good moments, like the acts of
kindness, like when things go right or"That was easier than I thought it was
going to be." Those are the glimmers.
When you have a good laugh with somebody,that deep belly laugh and you're like,
"Ah" afterwards - those are the glimmers.
And so, we do have to be willing andable to recognize and acknowledge
(22:52):
them throughout this process, becauseultimately that's what life is, right?
Alison Monahan (22:57):
Exactly.
Angela Corbett (22:57):
How you build a good life is by moments, not by stretches of time.
Alison Monahan (23:02):
Yeah.
Someone I know has a book and shedescribes those as "micro joys".
Angela Corbett (23:06):
Oh, I like that.
Alison Monahan (23:07):
Even in the midst of terrible things happening, and a lot
of terrible things did happen in thisparticular year for her, just outside
of her control, but she could still ina day look at and say, "Oh, the light
here is really amazing" or, "I'm goingto have this cup of tea and really
appreciate it." And I think you're right.
I mean, the more I go through life,the more I was like, it kind of
is what it is and you've got tolook for the good points in it.
Angela Corbett (23:27):
Yeah, notice the good.
Alison Monahan (23:29):
Yeah.
Alright, before we wrap up, if studentsare really finding themselves struggling,
what should they do, and how do peopleknow if it's bad enough that they need
to actually get some professional help?
Angela Corbett (23:40):
That is a fantastic question.
And so, I'm going to give thevery standard clinical answer.
So, clinical significant impairmentfor two weeks or more that is how we as
clinicians determine whether or not thisis just like a bad day, a bad week, or
if it requires some type of treatment.
(24:01):
So, if your domains of functioning - sothat's occupational, your social,
your medical, your health - anydegree of functioning is being
impaired significantly for two weeksor more, then it is time to get help.
So if you are not sleeping for two weeks,if your appetite is reduced for two
weeks, if you're crying every day fortwo weeks, if you are isolating more and
(24:28):
more for two weeks or more - go get help.
Alison Monahan (24:31):
Alright.
I think that's a great marker forpeople because it's very clear.
Everybody has a bad day, but for meit was like I wasn't sleeping, and
then I wasn't eating, and I wasn'tleaving my house at some point.
It's like, "Okay, this is probablynot going in a very good direction."
Angela Corbett (24:45):
Exactly.
Alison Monahan (24:47):
So, I'm very glad that I did reach out at that point, find help.
And frankly, I think itwas really life changing.
I did not end up depressedagain, and in retrospect, I
had been previous times before.
Angela Corbett (24:57):
That's awesome.
And can I just do a little plug for, Ithink in terms of going to seek help, that
can look different for different people.
I highly recommend going andgetting evaluated by a therapist,
but some people want to go themedication management route instead.
That is also okay.
Some people go see a yogateacher, and that's okay.
(25:20):
I think the idea that you're gettingsome type of support and you're
at least getting the ball rollingand you're open and willing to
receive help is a big indicatorof a good prognosis down the road.
Interesting.
Alison Monahan (25:36):
Yeah, I have my massage guy now, my acupuncture guy.
And I do feel like they really areactually very supportive of my mental
health, because we're friends now.
Angela Corbett (25:45):
Yeah, and there's not one-size-fits-all.
I know that some people culturally don'tfeel comfortable maybe talking about their
problems or their feelings to a stranger.
And so, yeah, going to acupunctureis a great way to still take care
of yourself and slow down and stillreceive some support as opposed to none.
Alison Monahan (26:05):
Yeah, I feel like that's where I go and I just need to do the
Control + Alt + Delete or turn thecomputer off and I turn myself back on.
I just feel like the wholesystem just got here.
I don't really know what happened,but, oh, everything is just better.
Like my energy shifted, yeah.
Yeah, totally.
It's like my Chi is moving or whatever.
or
Angela Corbett (26:23):
Yes, yes.
Exactly, exactly.
And again, I'm a hugeproponent for therapy.
I would love it if everybody would bewilling to go to therapy, but I'm also
recognizing the limitations that peoplehave, either personally, culturally,
financially, whatever the case may be.
And so, any help is still good enough.
Alison Monahan (26:41):
Yeah, I think that's totally fair.
And I think as a student, you havepaid for a lot of things, so you may
as well take advantage of some of them.
I mean, we got very discounted classesat the gym and things like that.
Even something like thatcan be a social outlet.
I started taking up squash, so I waslearning something, I was getting
exercise, and it was a social thing.
So, even something like that I feellike can be really meaningful if you're
(27:02):
just kind of in this funk of like, "Ugh,this sucks and I don't know what to do."
Angela Corbett (27:05):
Yeah.
I think the bottom line is, do something,
Alison Monahan (27:09):
Right.
Take some step.
Angela Corbett (27:10):
Take an action, exactly, and do something.
Don't just sit on it, because typicallyit's going to get worse, not better.
Alison Monahan (27:17):
No, I think that's totally fair.
Alright, well, any finalthoughts, Angela, you'd like to
share before we wrap up here?
Angela Corbett (27:23):
I think that was my final thought, so I think I'm good.
Alison Monahan (27:26):
Alright, awesome.
I think that's a great place to end.
Remind us again how peoplecan find out more about you.
Angela Corbett (27:30):
Yeah, so if they're interested, they can either find
me on LinkedIn - Angela Corbett,or you can go to my website,
which is www.TrueCandor.com.
Alison Monahan (27:41):
Awesome.
Well, we will link to allthat in the show notes.
Thank you so much for joining us.
I really appreciate it.
Angela Corbett (27:46):
You are so welcome.
It's my pleasure.
Oh, thanks.
If you enjoyed this episode of theLaw School Toolbox podcast, please
take a second to leave a review andrating on your favorite listening app.
We'd really appreciate it.
And be sure to subscribeso you don't miss anything.
If you have any questions or comments,please don't hesitate to reach out to
Lee or Alison at lee@lawschooltoolbox.comor alison@lawschooltoolbox.com.
(28:08):
Or you can always contactus via our website contact
form at LawSchoolToolbox.com.
Thanks for listening, and we'll talk soon!
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