Episode 10, Season 2 – Money, Marriage & Faith: What If It’s Not About the Money? With Special Guest Clint Jasperson" - The Love Doc Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to the lovedg podcast. I'm your co host Rayna
Butcher here with our host, doctor Sarah Hensley, the owner,
founder and CEO of the lovedc relationship coaching services. You
can visit her at the lovedoc dot com.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
What's up? Not much?

Speaker 3 (00:25):
What are you doing?

Speaker 2 (00:26):
You know, just recording a podcast?

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Yeah, everything to do. So excited about our guest today,
me too, I'm very excited.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
So today we have for all of our listeners something
that is so so important in terms of relationships. We
have Clint Jasperson here who is a financial expert, and
I'm gonna let Clint give us you know, his background,
his education. Just tell our listeners just really about who

(00:53):
you are and exactly what you do.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:56):
Thanks, thanks for the introduction. Of course, thanks for having me.

Speaker 5 (01:00):
So I'll give a little personal background and then share
some of my formal credentials. Born in the middle of nowhere, Wyoming,
grew up in a log cabin and I would say
why and how I got connected to what I do.
My father passed away when I was really young, about fifteen.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
Years old, and it was really there was a lot
of composts of that experience.

Speaker 5 (01:22):
One of it was though we basically had to sell
our house that we lived at the time, and it
was a very there was no time to grieve. It
was a financial devastating event as well as devastating to
the heart. And if you ask my mom why they
hadn't done any of the planning associated with that, what
she would say is that no one had ever talked
to them, or no one they had ever talked to

(01:43):
them that they trusted. And so it's interesting how God works,
where you know, these events happen in your life and
you look back and it makes sense. Then I feel
like that event kind of led me a decade and
a half later to starting a wealth management firm where I,
you know, my goal is to create clarity and confidence
around money. A little bit of the professional background prior

(02:04):
to that, I did benefits consulting, got my bachelor's and
master's degrees doing various things studying psychology, experience with business,
got my master's in education. Kind of this interdisciplinary approach
of resolving all these things that I've been through in life.
And then in twenty thirteen, just felt called to go
and start this. Ironically enough, well ironically and sadly. About

(02:27):
a month after deciding to do that, my wife's dad
passed away, and so it was this kind of interesting
moment of like getting galvanized in this direction. We relocated
and now live in northern Colorado, which is where my
wife grew up, so pretty close to Wyoming, where I
am a part of. I have two beautiful little girls,
love them dearly, live a very happy life, grateful to

(02:48):
wake up and read the air we've been blessed with.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Is a whole different kind of it is.

Speaker 5 (02:54):
Yeah, that Rocky Mountain, well, rocky Mountain highs defined by
a couple of different things there now legal stuff, but
John Denver wasn't kidding.

Speaker 4 (03:01):
It's a really beautiful place to be.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (03:03):
So, and then in terms of the financial credentials CFP,
Certified Financial Planner, a couple of other designations depending on
what people care about, but really just care about helping
people with their finances.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
And as you know, like I mentioned before, there's such
a correlation between relationships one marriages and what people deal
with in terms of their finances. But like we discussed
when we spoke, was really your relationship to money. And
I think this is something that Sarah and I can

(03:36):
speak very candidly on we have struggled with yes, and
so I want to approach this subject first before we
get into you know, finances and marriage, because I think
it's important to approach your own relationship with money and
how you feel about it before you approach it within

(03:56):
a marriage with someone else. And so I can speak
from personal experience similar to your story. You know, we
grew I grew up in a home where I don't
recall ever not having everything I needed, but I do
recall there were moments when there was financial stress. Yeah,

(04:18):
my dad was a contractor, and so of course contracting
is seasonal, so it was like I remember in the
winter it was like we had no money and in
the summer we did have money, and so it was
kind of there was there were moments of scarcity, and
so I've done, I've tried and instilled doing a lot
of healing work around what I call a scarcity mindset

(04:39):
when it comes to money. And so I've lived, you know,
forty two years, and I've in my adult life, I've
there's been moments where I've lived off Raymond noodles in
a prayer, and then there's been other moments that you know,
I've I've had, you know, money to some degree, you know,
upper middle class, I would say, and it it doesn't

(05:00):
matter where I've been. My relationship and again I'm candidly
speaking about this has always been the same of oh gosh,
I don't have money, and so I need to spend
money when I do have it because eventually I'm not
going to have And so now where I feel like
I'm getting to a place where I I am becoming

(05:20):
more financially secure, I still have this really like survival
mode mindset and I'm trying so hard. And this is
why I'm so excited to have you on, because I
want to talk about that relationship more so than like
the logistics behind them, but like the true like heart

(05:42):
soul relationship with money and how it affects us.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, I have a very I wouldn't say similar experience
because where I am with money now isn't in a
scarcity mindset, but it's almost like worse than a scarcity mindset.
I have a very like freeze response to money. Whereas
like my husband's my CFO, he handles all of our finances.
I don't like to look at the numbers in the bank.
I don't like to look at quick books. I don't

(06:07):
like I don't want to know anything about our money.
Just tell me if I can spend it or not.
And it's because just the idea of seeing the numbers,
even though the numbers are great, it still brings a
stress response into my nervous system almost, and we know
that freeze is a level two response, right, It's like
the most stressed you can be. And so my experience
was I had a bipolar dad who could not keep

(06:29):
a job to save his life. And so it was
the times we had money and times that we didn't.
If Dad was holding down a job, then we had money.
My mom was a dental hygienist, so you know, it
was really tough to live just on her salary. But
it was so up and down. We never knew when
we were going to get off the bus and Dad
lost another job, Well we have to cut out your
dance lessons. Well we have to. You know, you don't

(06:51):
get new clothes for school, okay. And so you know,
we've been lower middle class than there were times we
were more upper middle class. Now you know, I'm financially
but I still I don't want anything to do with
looking at the money, the numbers. So I don't know
where that's coming from. Like I'm trying to find out
why I'm still in this sort of nervous system response

(07:13):
to money. So give us some feedback based on what
we've told you.

Speaker 4 (07:18):
Well, I think.

Speaker 5 (07:21):
Money's a catalyst, and so I think one of the
things that I've experienced in working with people is there
are certain scripts that we have that serve us for
a long time and then ended up being dysfunctional in
other contexts. Right, So, speaking from personal experience, one of
my first memory, I have several memories about money. One

(07:45):
was when my dad died and realizing that as a
teacher and as my mom being a office manager for
dental practice at the time, we had neighbors and growing
up in a rural environment, your neighbor neighbors are basically family,
and I remember they came down. My dad was his
he was very, very intelligent, gifted in many ways despite
some of his faults, and she was like, you know,

(08:08):
your dad was a really smart man. There's this type
of insurance that pays off your bills when you die,
Like I'm sure he had it and he didn't, and
it was I remember deciding, Like I remember the moment
on the couch when we realized that, and I was like,
I will never have to worry about this, like, and
I don't think it was a conscious thing.

Speaker 4 (08:25):
I was the oldest.

Speaker 5 (08:27):
I have two older brothers, but from a different marriage
I didn't really know. And that was one of the
gifts of losing my dad is through that process I
got to form relationship with them.

Speaker 4 (08:35):
So how God.

Speaker 5 (08:36):
Works that way, But it was this very powerful and
potent memory for me, and for a long time, operating
in that place of scarcity enabled me to do things
and have discipline that forced me forward in a way
that I needed to to get.

Speaker 4 (08:52):
To where I was going.

Speaker 5 (08:53):
And it was very effective. And then there was a
time where that didn't work as well. And so what
I would what I often encourage people the space and
there's likely some things that are helpful about how you've
frozen about money or the scare that's been helpful. Right,
So like if you're tempted to spend money, there is
a certain element.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
Right, I love to money.

Speaker 5 (09:17):
But what I'm saying is what I'm saying is this desire.
So like let's if we explore so this this idea
like I need to live in the present because it
might not be there. It's not an inherently bad thing.
It's a tool in your toolbox that has served you
in some contexts. So I think when you're fully able
to examine both the gift of that and the downside,
like and actually like enjoy that for what it is

(09:39):
is really important. Similar to how like if someone's trying
to quit smoking tobat like if you take tobacco completely unrelated,
but it's a behavioral change element. So a lot of
times people like most of the time people know they
should change.

Speaker 4 (09:53):
It's a shame based thing.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Right, I'm fully aware here, right, But.

Speaker 4 (09:57):
What about that behavior is healthy?

Speaker 5 (10:00):
Like there are some elements of it, Like if I'm
going out on a cigarette break, there's likely friendships that
I have tied to that I get a fifteen minute break,
I might go on a walk. It's my time, right,
whatever those things are about that understanding what's effective and
useful for you is also helpful, So like there might
you know, I'm guessing here, but like there's probably elements

(10:20):
of this that's like there's that discomfort and then obviously
you guys know how to like gradually expose yourself to that.

Speaker 4 (10:25):
It's probably very relatable to.

Speaker 5 (10:26):
These relationship traumas, right, So I think that's that's a
way to do that. I also think relationship with other
people can be helpful, you know, marital relationships specifically can
be really powerful. And understanding that money is just an
emotional tool. I'll make one other comment about this and
kind of tied to a personal story.

Speaker 4 (10:46):
So one of the places.

Speaker 5 (10:48):
So this being in this position of scarcity really helped
me drive this narrative of financial provision. And I think
so if we believe that money or anything we have
isn't ours, and that's a guiding belief that I try
to internalize, I'm aspiring to always do that as a
person of faith, then really I'm trying to practice stewardship.

(11:10):
I would say there's three components of stewardship. The first
is obviously provision. Right, So there's scripture in the Bible
that says, hey, you've got to It implies the pariable
of talents, kind of implies that you've got this moral
obligation to steward well, what you've been blessed with. Right,
So you' all have expertise y'all have trust, you have
people that you have people's attention, You feel an ethical

(11:30):
responsibility and you can hear it in your desire to
do right by people, this responsibility to provide and do right.
There the reason why you save money is to provide
for the future where you're not able to work or
you no longer want to work. It's not to just
pile on more tools, just like you wouldn't buy more
hammers for the sake of more hammers, and again easier
said than done. Right, that's one element of money, but

(11:53):
there's two other elements of stewardship in general. There's contentment
and enjoyment, and combining those three together is I think
it takes a lifetime to practice. And if you're good,
usually there's two out of three that you're doing reasonably
well and there's one you need to work on. So
one of the ways that I was sort of able
to repair my scarcity issues, I got to a point

(12:13):
where I no longer needed to behave that way. And
there was as a kid, I remember visually kind of
attaching to the idea of buying a Ford Raptor. It's
like a guy truck thing, right, And there was a
point in my career where I was able, I was like,
you know what if I could ever just had the
cash shades to buy that thing, and it's not going
to jeopardize them any goals, I'm going to do it.

(12:33):
I sat on that bucket of money for three years
and then I finally did it. And it was not
about the material object, and I mean I prayed about
I mean it took a long time. I'm kind of
stubborn that way at times. But what's incredible about that
is by me celebrating and enjoying that, it actually enabled
me to give more in the contentment side, because it
kind of freed me up from that position of scarcity.

(12:54):
So just like how sometimes our behavior like we're more
predictably irrational than rational that should of like, well I
should do this. It's not a linear process, yeah, and
working and you probably know this, but in my instance,
like I bought that truck and my desire to give more,
how much better it felt, and even giving of my time,
which I think is harder to do now, which I'll

(13:15):
probably relate to as your success has gone up. It's
this combination of things that comes together, and that's really
what you want like, we all know someone that's got
more than enough money that isn't happy. So that practice
of contentment and enjoyment, celebrating what we've been blessed with
giving breaks the power that money has over over us.
But it isn't just about giving money. It's oftentimes the

(13:35):
things that are most sort of sacred to you or
that you value.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
Most, right.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
And I will say in relation to that, most of
my money is spent on other people.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, people, I love, you.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
Know, so because it brings me so much enjoyment to
do that. And I like to give my money away
too too, you know. It makes me, you know, feel
like I'm being a steward of the blessings that have
been bestowed upon me. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
Absolutely, And I love that answer because I mean that
is a true answer, biblical answer. I mean God, you know,
he tells us like nothing on this earth is ours,
not even our own body as ours, you know, And
so we are to be good stewards of the blessings
that we've been given. And I try to keep that
in mind. And I remember there was a church sermon

(14:22):
last year at some point that it was like, hey,
you know, try to up your giving to the church.
And just bet on God and see what he does
in your life, Like, just bet on God. And I mean,
of course, yeah, they're trying to get you know, church financed, right,
But at the same time, I was like, you know what,
I'm I'm going to do that, and I nearly doubled,
you know what I was, what I felt like was
already a very generous contribution to the church. And that's

(14:42):
when exactly when my business exploded and my finance is
drastically changed, and so you know, and it's but it's
still hard sometimes because like June was a very slow
month for us, July is looking a little bit slow,
and there's that initial sort of fear that just juts
into you that's like, oh wow. But if something's fundamentally shifted, right,
like the TikTok algorithm is shifted, or something is working, Toad, you, toad,

(15:06):
have we saturated our audience? You know? What have we done?
But I'm like, no, I have to stop myself from
thinking that way. I have to stop myself from going
back to scarcity mindset. I do believe somewhat in the
law of attraction, but I'm just I personally. The only
thing that gets me out of that is focusing on
the mission of Like, No, my job is to help
people here, and whatever comes from that comes from that,

(15:28):
I'll be okay. I've lived way more scarce than I
am right now, and if I ever had to go
back to that, I would still be okay. But my
goal here is to teach people how to love, and
as long as I don't stray away from that, I'm
fundamentally going to be fulfilled. And the money it's just
a bonus that's right for me.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
I have a question just because I think it's interesting,
and this is based on what you said, and this
is for you, Doc, when because you spoke about, you know,
your life circumstance at a young age, you loved your dad,
your family was in financial distress, and you saw this
and had the thought, this will never happen to me.
So I'm curious your take, doc on what do you

(16:08):
think is the difference between the person who has that
thought and the person that doesn't have that thought. Hm.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
I think the person that has that thought that their
nervous system is capable of being proactive. So even if
it's in like a fight or flight state, that's still
a can do state, right, it's a sense of urgency.
It's a sense of like, no, I need to run
with this right, whereas like me, I'm a little more frozen,
so I'm not acting right. The state of freeze is

(16:40):
in action, it's self protection. And so I think it
probably has to do with what did that kind of
trauma do to you and how your nervous system functions
around that specific specific topic. Like for me, you know,
I am very frozen around money right now. But after
my ex died and he signed over all the life

(17:03):
insurance to his new wife, my kids got absolutely nothing.
He had a lot of money in the bank, he
had like he was an addict and he was really struggling,
so he withdrew all of his retirement, which was a
pretty considerable amount of money, and she got all of them.
She got everything. Yeah, and my kids got zero. And
that's when I took out I have three very large

(17:26):
life insurance policies, two out of the three being you
know what do they call whole life or like variable
life insurance that doesn't ever go away, and one is
a term policy. And people are like, you're so dumb
for taking out all this life insurance, and everybody that
I've told that that knows anything about money, was like,
why do you have this much life insurance? I was like,
because I saw firsthand what it did to me and

(17:48):
my girls not having their dad's support in their life
after he died, and then there's like forever no support, right,
and so it's like that was so scary to me
that it almost it jetted me into action in that way,
you know, it put me into like this real fighter
like panicky state.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
And what were you falling your siblings?

Speaker 4 (18:11):
Sorry, what about the siblings?

Speaker 5 (18:12):
Where do you fall in your So in most of
my life in my while I was a kid, I
was the oldest sibling.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
That makes sense, Yeah, yeah, but.

Speaker 5 (18:21):
I want to this is your response is like teed
up because it's the heart of what and their scripture
about this, and I don't remember exactly how.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
There's so much here that could spent a long time on.

Speaker 5 (18:33):
So the first thing that I felt called to share
is there's there's scripture and I'm going to kind of
mess it up a little bit, but essentially it goes,
both wisdom and inherence are good thing and benefits those
that see the sun. But if the son in this
case being Jesus, and if you're a non believer, the
virtues that you know, maintaining upward aim and benefits those
who see the sun. But if you have to err

(18:53):
on one side, are on wisdom. So you've essentially lived
the example of there are people that inherent large bucket
of money and I don't we don't want a guss
about whoever got the money, But essentially you were gifted
a catalyst of this compost, stacked on top of the
virtues that you found through your faith journey, et cetera.

Speaker 4 (19:13):
Now you're here, so you've literally lived this example.

Speaker 5 (19:16):
And yet there's still this element of like, Okay, it's
not about what the life insurance, it's not about the
dollar amount.

Speaker 4 (19:23):
It's about the fact.

Speaker 5 (19:23):
That you've associated deep meaning with providing in this context
because you know what it's like to not have that
and the depth of it. And if you had to
air on one side and like sort of think about that,
it's like, well, if you could only choose, I'm going
to pass on you know, secure attachment and all this
sort of loving capacity in my kids or this large
bank account, you'd probably err with the former, right, because

(19:44):
you know the potential of that right. I think that's
what's so hard about money is we ascribe all this
potential to it, and we project all these things on it,
just like we do in our romantic relationships to our partner.
And then when you look behind this scenes, oftentimes it's like, oh,
what does that say about me?

Speaker 4 (20:03):
It becomes kind of a mirror.

Speaker 5 (20:04):
About this And it's not necessarily like your decision to
buy life insurance is right or wrong.

Speaker 4 (20:08):
It's like the why behind it. I know it sounds
kind of like a guru answer, but it's so true.

Speaker 5 (20:13):
Like literally, scripture talks about this, right, And if you
could er on one side, it's like, well, most people
would agree that that's not the best last one testament
that a father wants to leave their kids that emotional experience, right,
And so you've convicted yourself this is what I want
to do now because of that.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Right, And it was so confusing to me, like why
he made those choices? But then again, I know why
he made those choices. We had an extremely contentious divorce.
We had just finished an extreme or we're about to
finish an extremely contentious custody battle. He didn't like me, right, right,
and he didn't plan on dying. Sure, right, So he's thinking, Okay,

(20:51):
I'm going to make these changes now that I got remarried,
and you know, then someday, you know, she would her
getting that, you know, fifteen twenty years, thirty years down
the line would have made a lot of sense, whereas
you know, here we had only been divorced a year
and a half and he had already been remarried, and then,

(21:12):
you know, and I'm not knocking her. I mean her
and I I would consider have a cordial, you know, relationship.
I understand why she kept what she did. I mean,
she felt very justified and as the rightful owner of
that money because that was his last wish, that was
where his wishes, those were his wishes. And so I

(21:33):
am not, you know, in any way trying to drag
her through the mud, but I think that it was
kind of a shock that I was expecting that this
was going to be there and then it wasn't there.
Because I remember one of the last things I asked him,
you know, when he got out of rehab, I said,
are you still paying for the life insurance policy that
covers me? Have you made any changes to the beneficiaries?

(21:55):
You know, because you're getting remarried, and he said, no,
it still goes to you. And then finding that, like
I remember the phone call of finding out like, no,
you're not the beneficiary of this money, and it was
just like another another huge slam when I was already
so traumatized, and I had that exact same thought, my
girls will never go through this. If something happens to me,

(22:16):
God forbid, they will be they will be financially secure. Well.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
And what a beautiful thing, because of course, you know,
like you said, it catapulted you to exactly where you
are now, And say you had gotten a huge inheritance,
you know from I mean sadly from his death.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Would it have brought you to this place?

Speaker 4 (22:33):
No?

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Probably not.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
I probably really needed to struggle and order and thank
goodness for Social Security death benefits. I mean that came
in so so clutch when I needed it because I
had bought a house, I had built my life around him, providing,
you know, support for my children. And then it was like,
oh my gosh, I'm gonna have to might have Sell's

(22:55):
house and like run in a really tiny apartment. Am
I gonna What am I gonna have to do? And
by the grace of God, we made it. But it
was a blow at that time. But now you know,
God has shown me like you never needed that money. Yeah,
you never did need that money. That money blessed somebody
else in their life, and that's okay.

Speaker 4 (23:14):
Yeah, I think you know.

Speaker 5 (23:16):
So you talk about how essentially you have this this
act of faith that you know you made this gift,
a sacrificial gift, it was a conscious choice in church,
and then you happen to be blessed. There are so
many stories in the Bible about this, and like I've
been spending a lot of time thinking about Cain and
Abel and just sort of the implications of this and
how we live this. All the time, you were in

(23:39):
a position where you didn't really know what was on
the other side, but you decided to give your best anyway, right,
And sometimes when we go through involuntary suffering, I mean,
we can say we have a choice, and we do.
You guys work with couples and people all the time
that don't believe they have.

Speaker 4 (23:53):
A choice, but they really do.

Speaker 5 (23:54):
Okay, So, but the real truth of a deep, meaningful
life is we actually don't have a choice.

Speaker 4 (23:58):
Everything's a sacrifice.

Speaker 5 (24:00):
And what I mean by that is if you look
at how like Cain and able to experience their life.
So you essentially, for those unfamiliar, you essentially have one
brother who, despite not knowing what's going to happen with harvest, etc.
Decides to give the very best sacrifice all the time.
And I would say, in everyday life, sacrifice is any choice.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
Right.

Speaker 5 (24:18):
You know you have to give your time at a minimum, right,
So any choice is a sacrifice. Then you have another
brother Cain over here that says, hey, God, why not me?

Speaker 4 (24:26):
Essentially right?

Speaker 5 (24:27):
And there's kind of this tension because God essentially comes
down and says, well, honestly, you're not really given your best.
And that's a really hard thing sometimes, that accountability to
really sit with, right, especially when we're dealing with shame
or whatever else. Right, or we just have to have
faith that God's calling us into something because we don't
even see our own potential, which is oftentimes what happens

(24:47):
with deep involuntary suffering, which is again why Jesus is
just such a neat even if you don't believe, like
why that story is so captivating and what happens when
you don't respond to that and decide to give your
best anyways, because that's really the only choice that we have.
You build the spirit of resentment, and decades and generations later,
Kine's legacy is weapons of destruction and war, and that

(25:11):
is no legacy that we want to be a part of. Right,
And so you think about generational trauma and all these
other kind of things. I think it's non traditional advice,
but there's a psalm. You know, when you're feeling overwhelmed,
you don't know what to do, Delight yourself from the Lord,
and he will give you the desires of your heart. Now,
I do think that there is some implication for divine providence.
I've experienced that. But the deeper meaning behind that, in

(25:32):
my opinion, is when I'm feeling really overwhelmed, or when
I've had just tremendous amounts of suffering in my life,
to pray about it and surrender to not really knowing
is a really powerful thing to do. It's the opposite
of what a lot of times our culture tells us
to do Hustle through it, push through it, etc. And
I don't mean to say that there are sometimes where

(25:54):
you want to push that extra weight in the gym.
That's also possible, but there's also sometimes where getting down
on your knees and surrendering and just asking for help
is a very powerful thing to do, for sure, And
sometimes you really don't have the choice and you convince
yourself of otherwise, right, Like that's a it's a very
humbling thing to go through. And to your point, if

(26:18):
you hadn't gone through that suffering, would you be where
you're at now? Like set aside even the money, but like,
how many lives have you been able to touch because.

Speaker 4 (26:24):
Somehow you were called and drawn forward? Money is a.

Speaker 5 (26:27):
Byproduct of that, right, right, and it becomes us catalyst
to do that. It makes sense why you freeze, like
you will know it. It's just kind of working through
the emotions of it.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Yeah, I do want to talk a little bit about,
you know, shame and its correlation with maybe you know,
spending right, because this is I think what I can
speak on personally from my personal experience, is that spending
money it's not rocket science. It gives you dopamine. Its right,

(26:57):
So it makes me feel good when I do it.
I like getting a new outfit and putting it on
and being like, oh I feel so pretty, I feel
so great.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Life is good.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
Now right, And so I think, you know, I want
to ask the experts here and for our listeners, and
I think it's important just to talk a little bit
about the correlation between shame and spending.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Go ahead, who wants to go for?

Speaker 3 (27:23):
I think it's just part of what we call psychology
the hodonic treadmill, which is just like this idea that
we had the spaceline level of happiness and that when
we spend money, for example, it gives us that little
Russia dopamine that elevates our happiness a little bit. But
then eventually, like that new dress or whatever you bought
is going to hang in your closet, it's not new anymore,
it doesn't serve that purpose anymore. So you dip back

(27:46):
down to your baseline. And we stay on this treadmill
right where essentially we've assigned our happiness to the result
of our circumstances, maybe what we can spend or things
or even experiences that we and joy. But we have
to contrast that with what joy is and how we
actually cultivate joy, and joy is really cultivated through in

(28:09):
my experience two things for me personally, faith. You know,
there is a joy in the Lord that can't be
explained or bought. You know, really you have to I
think have deeply experienced it. And then safety. We know
that the nervous system in its safest state of ventral
vagle or parasympathetic activity, is where we can truly access joy.

(28:33):
And a lot of my clients who have been perpetually
dysregulated in their entire life have never truly experienced joy,
which is this deep sense of contentment no matter what
really the circumstances are. Because circumstances ebb and flow and change.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
Wow, there is a lot follow that one up.

Speaker 4 (28:52):
I'll try. I think.

Speaker 5 (28:56):
One of the things I have been really curious about
is is the paradox of ambition with contentment. And the
only way that I've I'm aspiring to experience both as
a human being is.

Speaker 4 (29:11):
Through the practice of faith.

Speaker 5 (29:12):
Because they're contradictions, right, so so much of it. It's like, Oh,
I hustle, I hustle, I hustle to feel contentment. And
let's just say you won the lottery, what are you
going to do with your time and your talent? Because
they literally print more money every day, you would want
to do something with it. Now, there's only so many
you know, lake boating adventures while you're drinking surveysas that

(29:35):
you can have before you're like, well, I'm fin a
little bit of this, right, And so that hedonism or
you know, the hedonism is you know, excess too far.
And at the same time, there is an unhealthy place
where you don't celebrate at all. Right, all these things
are sort of contradictions or paradoxes, and in my opinion,
they only make sense in the context of faith because
I can't understand why it is that way. I'm just

(29:57):
trying to appreciate the beauty of the tension of those things,
and so I think trying to make space for the
inherent contradictions.

Speaker 4 (30:04):
Right.

Speaker 5 (30:05):
So there are there are times where I still spend
money and I'm like, why did I do that? So
my goal is not to be someone that never makes
a mistake. My goal is to create a framework or
parameters or a system, a relational container, right that is
where I'm able to experience the best of my human condition,
knowing myself, et cetera, and still maintain that upward ding

(30:26):
whatever that is, right, not without mistakes, not without forgiveness,
not without grace, and at the same time still trying
to pursue for better, larger than life, whatever that means
for me personally, my values and what I want for
the vision for my life.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
First and foremost, we want to thank our sponsor of
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Speaker 2 (30:43):
Thank you so much, Cozy or I.

Speaker 3 (30:44):
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They are made of the viscous of bamboo temperature regulating.
They have an amazing guarantee on their products too, which
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(31:05):
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Speaker 2 (31:10):
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Speaker 5 (31:12):
I did.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
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Every product they make I feel like it's just fabulous,
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Speaker 1 (31:24):
The thing I love about the Cozy blanket too, is
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a weighted blanket, but their Cozy Fuzzy blanket.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
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but yet it's like being wrapped and like this, I.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Don't know, it's so soft. It is so soft.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
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be stealing it. Yeah, but we are just so happy
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Speaker 5 (32:04):
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wife loves their pjs. Two little girls love.

Speaker 4 (32:10):
The towels so nice.

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Speaker 3 (32:12):
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You can go to their website cozyearth dot com enter
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Speaker 2 (32:25):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
Yeah, I know I can get stuck. And when you
own your own business, it a little bit feels like
a video game.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
It feels like I'm just okay, what's the next level, right,
and you're always looking sort of ahead to okay, I
need to beat this level. I need to master this level,
and then I get to the next level, and it
can get a little bit addicting. I mean, I remember
when I started to leave my job and I was
the program director of two graduate programs, Society and PhD
in clinical psychology. I was literally unless I would have

(32:55):
been promoted to dean, I was at the top of
my field. I mean most people would say, wow, you know,
being a program director in academia, that's very high up there, right,
instead of being like a dan or the president. That's
you're going to top out there. And I was making
forty three hundred dollars a month, and I remember looking
at my husband and saying, if I can just coach
enough clients to make forty three hundred dollars a month,

(33:16):
I'll be okay. And so when he shows me the books,
and he you know, because every week it gives me
a screenshot of quick books, which I don't like to
look at, but he's like, no, you need to know.
I'm just and then I get down. If you know,
if sales are down or whatever, He's like, remember when
you said you just needed to make forty three hundred
dollars a month. Can you go back to that place

(33:36):
for a second, to just get back you know, remember
where you know where you have been, and you know,
it's incredible to me that you can get on this
trajectory where it just doesn't seem like enough, like you
need to keep going to the next level. And there's
a part of me again where there's that ambition, right,
and there's and that makes you successful, but also being

(33:59):
able to ebb and flow and have the contentment and
have the enjoyment peace to it as well as the
giving peace. And so that's why I think part of
me is just like stay focused on the mission. Just
stay focused on the mission, and then the money is
what it is, right, because that's not why I'm doing
what I'm doing. I'm doing what I'm doing because I'm
called to God. But also have I become a little

(34:21):
bougie and do I like nice things? I do? I
like nice things.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
Thinks that that's okay?

Speaker 1 (34:26):
You know, I think that that's you know, I mean,
I I don't feel necessarily guilt over wanting to take
care of myself and and be good to myself and
buy myself.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
Yeah, you're like fine leather.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
But I think where mine mostly comes from is.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Just having limits, right, like having limits around those things
and wanting, like you said, at all times to really
think about where it is I want to go. And
it's difficult. It's been difficult for me to think in
those terms, right, And you know, I'm a newlywed, and

(35:11):
I will say, and I think this is a good
segue where I want to take this, is that marriage
is changing this for me, and it is giving me
this different and new perspective one because I have this
other person who is one with me that I have
to think about in terms of our future, if something

(35:32):
happened to him, if something happened to me, And these
are things I've never had to think about in the past.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
And so I think this is a good segue to
where I want to take this.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
And really, I think, again, what's so valuable for our
listeners who are in marriages where finances and we all
know it problem.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
It's the leading cause of divorce.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
And so you know, I want to touch on this
with both of you, of course, but specifically with you Clint,
because you are a financial advisor and an expert. But
you know, logistically speaking, you know, if someone is in
a marriage and they're having finance issues.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
What would And I know you're not a counselor, but.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
You sort of are. You know, you're a financial counselor.
Where would you tell them to start?

Speaker 5 (36:21):
Man, Okay, So I know that people say that finances.

Speaker 4 (36:27):
Are the cause of divorce.

Speaker 5 (36:28):
Yeah, my experience is that that's that's that's a way
that it gets expressed, right, And it's it's hard because
I don't think people realize, like if the idea of
marriage in our society was sold as the true cost
of marriage or what you're signing up for a sacrifice
in death, no one had raised their hand, right, It's

(36:48):
like we buy into the vision of like the songs
and the pictures and all those other kind of things.

Speaker 4 (36:55):
I think therapy is very helpful.

Speaker 5 (36:57):
I also think if you can before you get married,
I mean, finances have to be something you talk about.
And it's more so talking about but looking at behaviors,
because my experience is that if you can't come to
terms on that, that's one of those places that's very
difficult to.

Speaker 4 (37:14):
Reconcile after the fact. Like it just is.

Speaker 5 (37:17):
And I'm not trying to be discouraging to anyone, but
if you're in that place like it's a very It's
kind of like all the questions you guys get on
like the DA Right, It's like, if you can try
to manage that upfront, that's possible. Now what happens when
you're inside of that that depends on the context, right.
I don't think that there's any one script that works
for every couple. What's really and I think fate both

(37:40):
of you are providing for one another in the marriage,
and not just financially, but it could be you know,
I deal, I have this responsibility in our household, this
person has this one right, recognizing and coming back to
that importance, how are we providing for one another? And
what is what does the money do for us in
terms of that provision is really really important? So you know,

(38:02):
take life insurance right that you're talking about earlier.

Speaker 4 (38:05):
Well, if one of.

Speaker 5 (38:06):
You passed away and you guys have co commitments together
like living in a house or those kind of things,
to some extent, you guys probably have implied or promised
to one another responsibility to provide for one another that
way in a way that's not disruptive, whether it in
a certain context, under a certain timeframe.

Speaker 4 (38:23):
That's one way to look at it right.

Speaker 5 (38:24):
So there are these ways where if you have a
framework of providing for one another, then you can divide
and conquer. There aren't any sort of hard and fast rules,
you know, some usually there is one spouse that is
more money inclined than the other, but that doesn't look
the same for everybody. So sometimes there are folks that
are very inclined to be like, you know, the budget
keeper and managing the books, et cetera, but they don't

(38:46):
necessarily know how to think at a thirty thousand foot
view right. And so that a lot of times where
a financial advisor or someone that can help step in
as a facilitator is allowing both spouses to participate versus
in the face scilitator role because the other thing where
just like how some marital dynamics, you can have one
partner that kind of becomes apparent to child relationship in

(39:09):
terms of the subconscious trauma. Money's a delicate thing too.
I also think there are times when I and I
don't know if this is in our culture right now
or what, but there can be tension between genders, specifically
with gender roles and money and provision and assumptions and expectations,
I think communicating those and some of the tensions that

(39:30):
you know, for example, if like I was reading some
statistics the other day, just like thinking about relationships and stuff,
and like most women want a guy that's six foot one,
makes more than one hundred thousand dollars a year, has
an athletic bill, all these other kind of things. And
I'm not trying to say lower your standards, but that's
a very rare percentage of population, right, And also we

(39:50):
all want to feel deeply.

Speaker 4 (39:51):
Loved beyond those things, absolutely right.

Speaker 5 (39:54):
So it's like, I think it's it's not pretending that
that doesn't exist, but I think true intimacy the ability
to sort of acknowledge those things, and the choice consciously
to choose others, and like, where am I willing to
give up versus not right?

Speaker 4 (40:07):
Right?

Speaker 3 (40:08):
Right?

Speaker 1 (40:08):
And not pushing someone into changing too quickly?

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Right, Yeah, because I think change. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
I think that I can speak for myself and Josh.
Josh is definitely the more responsible when it comes to money.

Speaker 5 (40:28):
What's an example of that, Because we've talked several times,
and you tend to frame yourself in a way where
your response like what can.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
You give me an example, well, you know, vulnerable here
because it's so funny though, because we share an Amazon
account because of our influencer status. Right, so we share
an Amazon account and it's just like my emails like
the ding ding ding, like and I'm like, I didn't
buy any of this, right yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
Yeah, and I think so.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
Yes, I tend to be a little frivolous in the
things that I think I need. You know, it's not
even like a wan I'm like, I think I need this,
I think I need We're just the.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
Most influenced, easily influenced people. I'm very easily influenced, Like
TikTok shop will get me every single time.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
So you know, it's the it's you know, the good
old regular you know, the husband comes home and there's
four Amazon boxes on the porch and.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
It's like, what are you doing?

Speaker 3 (41:24):
Do we really need this stuff? What do we just
like it?

Speaker 5 (41:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (41:27):
And you know, so that's an example.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
So it's not like I'm not going out dropping ten
grand on a Louis Vauton or anything like that, Like I'm.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Not yet, but you know.

Speaker 4 (41:39):
There'll be an element, right, keep going, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
But I you know I think that well, it's it's
that age old like, okay, well, if you're spending five
dollars on fifteen million different things, then technically you are
dropping a frivolous ten thousand dollars on just things. And
so my husband, of course, being the more logical one,
is standing back, not push not pushing me too hard,

(42:05):
because here's the condundrum. I'll be like, help me, help me,
help me stop. And then he'll be like, babe, why
are you spending this money? Like, don't tell me how
I spend my money, you know. And so there's this
this contradiction there where he's like, you know, you asked
me to help, and he's a beautiful partner and he'd
and he in every single way. I mean, I can't

(42:26):
speak highly enough of my my husband, of course, but
because he does allow me this room because it is
about me, it's about me, and and this is where
I'm trying to get to in terms of my own
journey and my own struggle.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
What's the root calls?

Speaker 1 (42:43):
There's full awareness here, right, I have full awareness of
the things.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
I'm doing, But why why am I doing it? And
how do I stop it?

Speaker 4 (42:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (42:54):
So I think that that's an important lifetime journey and
how do you make progress now? So a couple of
frameworks and a story if I don't get too all
over them, because there's like, it's very stimulating this conversation.
So I've noticed that some personalities are more motivated by

(43:16):
the risk of loss and others are more focused on
like maximizing opportunity rights. Yes, yeah, and you might be
more focused on loss. I don't know, but just kind
of sensing this dynamic. So even if I want to
be effective in reaching you, rather than me focusing on
all the ways you can stop spending money, I might say, Okay,

(43:37):
you're content right now, Like we'd both agree on that, right,
So seventy five percent of all future dollars for the
next twenty four months you're committing to save. There's not
a lot of pain associated with that, right, that's going
to seem less costly than me saying you can't buy
any more Amazon purchases. I think creating working with someone's
capacity to change, that's a that's a way to sort

(43:58):
of address that solution, right, because someone Sometimes people are
more motivated by the prospect of making more. Now, you
still got to solve that, right, because if you make
more only to spend more and lifestyle creeps a real thing.
But there are elements of well, how do I make
progress right now?

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Right?

Speaker 5 (44:12):
There's also like there's never going to be a better
time to like go to the gym or plan a
tree the best times today, So sometimes people get stuck
of letting perfect get in the way of good. It's
not like you don't have to buy any Amazon purchases,
but maybe you make an agreement that you're going to
look at your Amazon spend every twelve every month, and
whatever you do spend on that, you're going to commit
to putting x amount in this account that you don't

(44:34):
have access to or can't see. So there's ways to
make progress that don't have to get to the root cause,
even though you can sort of because the realities were
always growing or responding in some way. And even if
you knew the root cause, you still got to make
progress right now because there's an opportunity cost associated with
doing nothing, you know, versus that the other thing.

Speaker 4 (44:53):
I'll tell you relatively, this problem never goes away.

Speaker 5 (44:57):
So about a decade ago, I was working with a
client and they went through this really large liquidity event
where they sold their company and there were millions of
dollars involved, and when we met, we were talking and planning,
et cetera.

Speaker 4 (45:11):
I was like, well how much.

Speaker 5 (45:12):
You know, we went through a budgeting process kind of
the whole thing, because we're trying to figure out what
their investments need to do to generate income for themself
have to worry about working anymore. And he was like, well,
I live pretty pretty frugally. I only need about thirty
thousand dollars. And I'm like, yeah, that is pretty frugly man.
Thirty thousand, Yeah, thirty thousand a month. Now to most
people that's a high amount of money, but he at

(45:33):
the time was making almost a million and a half
dollars a year, so relatively speaking, he was living on
a third of his income most people would. So it
becomes this relative problem, right, and the stakes never go away.
So you have to commit to mooring the cause and
having frameworks. And that's why, to the extent that you
money's a catalyst, Like the more money you make, the
more exaggerated these issues become. When you go through you'll

(45:55):
see this happen with families where they'll have an incredible
amount of wealth. But to the extent wealth is transferred
and there's not communication about it. Sometimes it's received as
lack of affection. That's kind of what you personally experienced earlier.
In some ways, it almost would have been better if
there was nothing, not for the other person involved, but
at least for kids, because at least wouldn't hurt so bad.
Even though you're describing all this meaning to something that

(46:16):
for all you know, he just had one day. I
didn't know this person, but sounds like maybe he was
you know, would make a decision that wasn't the most
rational thing all the time, right, So it might have
had anything literally to do with you, but that isn't
how it feels.

Speaker 4 (46:28):
In the moment.

Speaker 5 (46:29):
So the things I would tease out there, don't let
progress get in the way of or don't let perfection
get in the way of making progress like whatever that
is for you, because building the muscle of behavior change
and building your capacity, just like in relationships, really really important,
especially in the MERYLD dynamic. If you and Josh or
you know, listeners out there could come to an agreement

(46:50):
with their spouse to say, Okay, what is the thing
we are going to focus on. We don't have to
I don't have to never spend or sort of perfectly
resolve this yet, But how can we make progress? Just
like how you know with reaching the DA, it might
be like this, you know, making your requests so that
they're not received as criticism and seeing how they respond.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
Neither person's right or wrong. The problem isn't each other.

Speaker 5 (47:09):
The problem is we want to focus on being more
better stewards, and in this context specifically financial provision. You're
not the problem. He's not the problem. The problem is
you're trying to get someplace together.

Speaker 4 (47:20):
How can we do that?

Speaker 3 (47:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I totally understand that. I think that's
really great advice. I think for me, a game changer
was just learning the purpose of money. Like I didn't,
you know, I grew up in a household where it
was go to college, get a job, put your head
down and work your job and get a good, decent
retirement and then you'll be okay. And I think becoming

(47:44):
an entrepreneur shifted my entire awareness of what money can
do and what money is for. Whereas you know, I'm
not knocking people who have jobs. I mean, jobs are
very great thing to have, and you're blessed if you
have one, but there is a cap on what you
can make. Somebody else is telling you how much money
you can make, whereas when you're an entrepreneur, there is
some direct correlation between your effort and your strategy and

(48:08):
then what lands in the bank account. And that's a
fun game to play. But also it helped me learn
that money isn't just for paying bills. The purpose of
money is to take one dollar and make that dollar
make another dollar, right without you having to work for
that dollar to make another dollar. And I didn't realize
that that was how people got rich. I had no idea,

(48:30):
I had no education around money, and so now you know,
I was very late to the game really investing. I
mean I had to drain my retirement more than one time,
first for my divorce and then for the subsequent post
divorce custody battle. And you know, so here I am
late thirties. I had nothing right to show for, you know, however,

(48:52):
many decades of work. Yeah, and so now that I
have a little bit of money, I'm very focused on investing.
We have you know, we're still arding our real estate portfolio,
like all of these things. Because I didn't realize that
the purpose of money wasn't just to pay bills and
then whenever you had left over, you spend it have
fun with right, Right. And it's also more than also

(49:13):
just having this savings account that's not growing, right. I
want every dollar that I have to potentially make me
another dollar somehow. Yeah, and learning that that's possible and
learning how people do that was it blew my mind
and it shouldn't have blown my mind. I was like,
how did I get through life at this point not
realizing that this is how people become wealthy. They make

(49:36):
their money work for them. So talk to us a
little bit about that and that mind shift.

Speaker 4 (49:41):
Yeah, yeah, I know, that's.

Speaker 5 (49:44):
That's really important to call out because I think sometimes
I still take for granted that people have gotten to
that point where it's like, oh, you understand like what
compounding is.

Speaker 4 (49:52):
Yeah, so you know.

Speaker 5 (49:53):
If you like, I think it could be helpful to
literally take a calculator and just you know, double something
for days. It's really really powerful. You know, most people
understand what something when something goes viral. Compounding doesn't quite
work like that. It works in a linear way versus
exponential way. But having your money work for you essentially
takes your future self and it says, you know what,

(50:15):
future self, I'm going to make a sacrifice today so
that you don't so that your time can be allocated
someplace else. Because I think really what you're trying to
do is create time for yourself so that you don't
you might you might do this if you didn't have
to make money, right, you might enjoy it that much.
Especially these podcasts and stuff. He seem fulfilled by them?

Speaker 2 (50:33):
Is the goal?

Speaker 4 (50:33):
Right?

Speaker 5 (50:35):
Yeah, And it kind of comes back to this, well,
how can my money be used to create time? You know,
when you're running your business, you can. You can hire
people and get and and employ them to provide those
talents to free you up from the things you're not
good at or that you don't want to do right,
and that gives them the opportunity, et cetera. I think
money ultimately is to try to create more time. And
then let's just say you're at a place where you

(50:55):
got more than enough, you're a financially independent, there's still this,
there's still it becomes a force for good. So I
would say money it's a tool like anything else, just
like your college education, and just like you know, you're
marketing your sales and business background, right, So how do
you use that tool for good. One of the benefits
of being a business owner or being a business that's

(51:16):
trying to influence that is you actually start to really
connect that money is not inherently good or bad, but
it's what you do with it, just like what you
do with your knowledge. There's good actors, there's bad actors, right,
what you do with that is really what's most important.
So there are these levels of progression, right. The first
thing is you've got to get to a point where
you're actually you're not going backwards, right. And most when

(51:38):
you go through a big event like a divorce, right, Like,
it's just a financially devastating event for most people. That's
just the reality, right, So trying not to have those
mistakes occurs number one. But if you're in a situation
like that, you've got to resolve at first, because if
you build up this large four oh and K and then.

Speaker 4 (51:53):
Go through a divorce process, it's likely going to get messy.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
Right.

Speaker 5 (51:57):
So to some ex you know, you want to try
to prevent those mistakes if you can, or deal with
it and then move forward. Budgeting like just making sure
you're not going into credit card debt. You know, if
I had the ability to have someone else pay me
twenty percent of my money to give them a loan.

Speaker 4 (52:10):
I would use that all day. That's what the credit cards.

Speaker 5 (52:13):
You know, why would you pay someone twenty percent? I
go online, look at a calculator and look how expensive
that is. But people don't understand that. Once you've gotten
that baseline, then it's okay. How do I protect from
myself from going backwards with like certain products, like if
your incomes important, maybe disability insurance, life insurance like you
talked about. Right, you maybe have a basic will or trust.

(52:34):
Then you can build stuff on top of that. Right,
you sort of put these layers in place where you
can't go backward. You want to grow your business. You
got your income in place. Now you can focus on
providing for your future self.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
And celebrating those I think it's important, you know, like
because you know, just hearing you talk and really tuning
and like I am thinking of some things, you know,
am iware?

Speaker 2 (52:53):
I want to be no? But hey, I used to
never have a savings account. I have savings now, you know.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
I mean there are things that I feel like maybe
I've done that are better there than I was, you know,
five years ago. Obviously, you know, being more successful has
contributed to that. But you know, I think where we
sometimes get stuck is attaching money to our worth. And

(53:23):
this is again been my struggle. And I think that
if I do take a moment to really step back
and say, Okay, well, you know I have I have
a savings account, I'm taking one of the best trips
that I could have never paid for. You know, five
years ago, I don't have credit card debt. I don't
like I've paid off my credit card debt, so I'm

(53:45):
not buying all these things on credit, you know, whereas
maybe again five ten years ago, I would have been
doing those things. And so there, I think celebrating small
wins like you said that, you know, perfection can't be
the goal. That it has to be about building gradually
and then celebrating those gradual wins and not attaching shame
to it, right, and not attaching our self worth to

(54:08):
when maybe we do backslide a little bit or when
we do make a mistake with.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
Me and yeah, and I think it's just getting started
to like just actually taking me to do it step.
I mean, working with a working with a wealth management
company has been very beneficial. But also I started a
stash account a couple of years ago, and it just helps.
It just takes money out of my account. I mean,
it is fun to sort of play with companies and

(54:35):
you know, headg your bets a little bit, but I
mostly forget about it. And interestingly enough, like last time
I looked at it, I mean it's been several years now,
it was like seven thousand dollars in there, which is
a little play money, it's whatever. I opened it up.
Yesually it was like twenty grand in there, and I
was like, hey, you know, because it's just been automatically,
these small amounts of money coming out of my checking
account on a regular basis just going in there, and

(54:57):
I forgot about it, you know, and I was like, oh, well,
now that's it's like a little investment portfolio, right, Like
that's great, and it's you know, but something very simple
of just taking that stash account out and just having
money that you're you know, automatically is going to come
out before you spend it. Just taking some initiative to
get started, you can build on that.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (55:18):
Yeah, I mean I going back to like the motivation
we were talking about that earlier. It's really nice when
your motivation lines up with the behavior change that you
need to experience. That's not been the case for me
a lot of times. A lot of times I actually
have to start the behavior and then it becomes self reinforcing.
So a long time ago, I used to chew tobacco

(55:41):
and I was really overweight and kind of went through
this whole health trend. I mean we're talking twenty plus
years ago. And one of the observations I had that
when I hung out with certain people, I had a
tendency to chew tobacco more often. When I drank alcohol,
I had a tendency to you know, relapse in chew
tobacco again, eating Mexican food because like I think, capise
is in and dopamine for whatever reason.

Speaker 4 (55:59):
Right, So there are.

Speaker 5 (56:00):
All these like little tidbits that you learn along the way,
and again that progress versus perfection on that comes in.
Also going to the gym and doing cardio made me
much more likely to want to eat healthier. So ironically enough,
like I ended up losing weight through diet through diet primarily,
but the exercise helped me adhere to my plan more
so it's like weird little things like that. We're Oftentimes

(56:22):
these behaviors were like I just got to start that itself.

Speaker 4 (56:25):
Builds the momentum and the motivation. It becomes a self reinforcing.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
Yeah, like the bottom up process versus the top down process. Right,
And it's real because sometimes, you know, social psychologists are
deependant variable or outcomes always behavior, and so we've learned
that sometimes, Yes, changing your behavior then loops back up
and changes the way you think and feel about things. Yes, right,
And I think the attachment work I do is a
good example of that. We do top down processing right,

(56:50):
where we do focus on changing thought patterns. We focus
on our nervous system. But sometimes if you can catch
something and correct it, even if you started going to
I'm not old path, but you make a correction, the
outcome then reinforce that you get that's positive, reinforces doing
that behavior again. So, yes, bottom up change is real,

(57:11):
and sometimes just taking those small steps can be really beneficial.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
And I think you know, this just proves that relationship.
We have relationship to everything in our life. It's not
just romantic, right, So even something that's not per se tangible,
I know that cash is tangible of course, but you know,
money is kind of like in the air now.

Speaker 3 (57:35):
We don't know where it is.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
But yeah, but yeah, so it's it's interesting that even
something that's you know, you can't hold in your hand.
I mean that you still have this deep relationship with
it and the same psychological concepts apply to it. And
that's why it's important and that and so you're right
going back to specifically marriage and finance, and you know

(58:01):
the statistics saying that it's the leading cause of divorce,
Well is it.

Speaker 4 (58:05):
I don't think it's the leading cause.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:07):
I think it's relational. Yeah, it's relational. So people always
want to say things like sex or money or whatever
leading cause of divorce. No, those are topics by which
the dysfunctional dynamic dynamics.

Speaker 5 (58:19):
It's an easy way to quantify the pain or this right,
the disconnect, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
But it's really about how people handle and repair, you know,
these problems in their relationships. And so I think this
is a great place to kind.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Of there anything else you want up? Yeah? Is there
anything else you wanted to add?

Speaker 3 (58:35):
I mean, this is our audience with so valuable. Yes.
I love the depth of this conversation much so much interesting. Yes,
and so at least tell our listeners where they can
find you if they want to work with you, because
as you can see, uh, this guest is extremely well
rounded in terms of his knowledge not just about how
to make money work for you, but how to cultivate

(58:56):
a positive relationship with money, both within yourself as well
as within your couplehood if you're married or you know,
tied to somebody else in a relationship.

Speaker 5 (59:06):
Thanks had I had you not prompted me, and I've
forgotten about that, and my my social media colleague would
have been given me a hard.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
Time seeing you in the background. Hey, tell them where
they can.

Speaker 4 (59:17):
Find Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Speaker 5 (59:20):
So for professional purposes, if you just go on to
Google and you type Clint Jasperson my name, purpose Driven
Wealth Thrive It that's the parent company I'm affiliated with,
you'll be able to find our website, engage with Engage
with us that way, And then on the personal side,
I'll have him give you my Instagram handle where I'm
starting to talk more on the personal side about business, faith, life,

(59:40):
et cetera, those kind of things.

Speaker 4 (59:42):
So we'll include that, Yeah, that.

Speaker 1 (59:45):
Description you handle, the description as to where our listeners
can can find you, and of course, you know, guys,
I think ultimately, when it comes to healing, if we're
talking about full circle healing, everything plays a role here, money, finances,

(01:00:05):
I mean, even your relationship, my relationship with this chair,
my relationship with my car, my relationship with my children.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
All this is full circle.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
And I think that doctor Hinsley does a wonderful job
within her practice of bringing all this together so that
you can not just be better for your romantic relationship,
but be better as an individual, be better, a better parent,
be a better coworker.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
I mean, that's really what attachment is all about.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
Its being a better member of your community and a
better steward of the gifts that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
You've been giving.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
And hopefully that's the main message that we portray here,
is being a good steward of the things that you know,
the blessings that have been both bestowed upon you. And
again that is our ultimate mission here with the love
Dog Podcasts and with the lovedoc relationship coaching services. So
of course go see doc at the lovedoc dot com
check out her service is for our listeners. We have

(01:01:02):
a special promo code that you can use at check
out Love Doc twenty seven for twenty seven percent off
any of her courses or her hybrid group coaching program.
We love you, guys. Please go to patreons slash the
Love Doc there. You can be a free member, you
can be a paying member if you're a super fan.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Totally up to you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
But we're creating a community there for specifically this podcast,
so you can submit your questions, you know, talk to
us specifically, and then we'll bring them back here and
answer them. But that's really where you need to go
if you want your questions answered.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
Yes, we're going to start pulling questions on the regular
from our Patreon's account and I'm bringing them here and
answering them on the pod.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
That's right, So thank you guys, We love you, and
until next time, peace, love, and perspective.

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Episode 10, Season 2 – Money, Marriage & Faith: What If It’s Not About the Money? With Special Guest Clint Jasperson"

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 10, Season 2 – Money, Marriage & Faith: What If It’s Not About the Money? With Special Guest Clint Jasperson"