Episode 17, Season II: “Restoring Human Decency: Choosing Kindness in a Divided World”

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We want to take a minute and thank our sponsor
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Speaker 2 (00:17):
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(00:37):
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Speaker 3 (00:39):
Dot for forty percent off. Thank you Cozier, Thank you
Cozy Eer.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Welcome to the Love Dog Podcast. I'm your co host
and a butcher here with our host, Doctor Sarah Hensley,
the owner, founder and CEO of the Love Doc relationship
coaching services and of course, the Love Dog Podcast. You
can find her at the lovedoc dot com as well
on all social media handles at doctor Sarah Hensley.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Hey, Hey, hey, how are you?

Speaker 4 (01:18):
I'm sad.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah, today is a tough day. Today's September eleventh, which
is always a sad.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
Day, sad day.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
For people who lived through that.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
But also, you know, in the aftermath of what happened
yesterday and the assassination of Charlie Kirk, we are also really,
really sad, and so we're approaching this episode with caution,
but also with wanting to speak about truth and mostly

(01:54):
about human decency.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, I mean, we had another school shooting, we had beautiful,
innocent woman murdered riding the subway in Charlotte, and I'm
just I'm sick, and I'm fed up with it. Honestly,
I'm fed up with the violence in this world. I'm
fed up with the hateful rhetoric. I'm fed up with division.

(02:17):
We have completely lost our way and have forgotten that
we are all united under humanity. We are all human,
and we've lost our way completely. I feel like and
I won't participate in fear. I do feel sad today
because of a lot of what I've seen online. And

(02:38):
so you know, guys, when Rain and I decided to
drop this episode after last night's events, So Charlie Kirk
was murdered last night. The point of this conversation is
to remember that at the end of the day, there
are two little children that have to go on without
their father. And as someone who has personally experienced something

(03:02):
tragic like this, not obviously, you know, my eccident die
in front of my girls, that makes this an ultra tragedy,
but the fact that they have to somehow navigate life
now after something this horrific happened right in front of
their face, it just should bring every person to their

(03:22):
knees of why we can't just disagree without having to
see such violence in response to free speech. Yes, it's
we've lost our minds.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah, and that's you know, And this was sort of
my point yesterday and speaking to you know, the people
I love the most, because I think it's just pretty
automatic that when something like this, this big of a
tragedy happens. And listen, guys, again, tragedies like this happen all.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
All day day, all over the place, and it doesn't
discount those tragedies. I think when we start the conversation
by saying, well, you know, what about the forty thousand
children over here that died, or what about what's going
on in Africa or what we know it's all terrible.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, it's not an argument of what's worse. It's all bad.
It's all bad, it's all bad. It's just that when
someone is killed for speaking out on what they believe in,
then it becomes this humanity threat of really jeopardizing our
freedoms and again for whatever he stood for, you know,

(04:33):
I mean, I like you could you could think that
maybe he was radical, but I'm sure people thought Martin
Luther King.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Was radical and JFK was radical.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
And like, the only way I can describe how I
felt yesterday and today is how I would imagine people
felt when Martin Luther King was assassinated or when JFK
was assassinated, where you just feel this overall sense of hopelessness,
you know, for humanity. But again, I don't want to
stay there. That's not what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Talked about hopeless. Yeah, yeah, so we're not going to
stay and hopeless.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
It's not it's not hopeless.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
And but you can't help but have this flood of
overwhelming feeling for just the the overall well being of
humanity and our children and our children's children and what
it will be, you know, generations from now. And and
so I think what I'm trying to emphasize here is that,

(05:28):
or what Sarah and I both are really trying to
emphasize is how can we take this horrific thing that
happened and all the horrific things that happened and allow
it to bring us together instead of divide us.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yes, I think that you know, a house divide in falls, right,
and so.

Speaker 4 (05:49):
I don't know how to heal the division in our nation.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Politics is such a heated issue psychologically because politics are
tied to your values, and your values are tied to
your mortality. So there's a theory in psychology, and I
think I've talked about it before on the pod called
terror management.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
Theory we're talking about again, Yeah, where.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
When your values are threatened, especially your cultural values, it
actually subconsciously primes people for death, making them think subconsciously
about death. And so the reason that people get so
heated over politics is because their identity, therefore their survival,
their legacy essentially is threatened. And we're losing sight over

(06:32):
the fact that human suffering can be a political conversation,
but it should never be an opportunity to spike the
football and make a political point. Right, Can we use
these things to shape policy or can we use these

(06:52):
things to have discourse, yes, but when you're using someone's
unimaginable tragedy as a way to do a glory dance,
that sickens me.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah, I can't.

Speaker 4 (07:07):
It sickens me.

Speaker 3 (07:08):
I can't.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
And then the failed attempts to see the hypocrisy. So
I get it that you may really dislike Charlie Kirk.
That is your right as an American to dislike him
and to think what he said is not okay. You
can think his rhetoric was harmful and still not celebrate

(07:30):
his murder. Absolutely, And so that's where I'm stuck because
I made a post today.

Speaker 4 (07:37):
Of course I just couldn't stay silent.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
God is like, I did not give you this platform
to stay silent, and I'm like, oh God, I don't
want to be political. And I already know that the
last couple episodes have been very spiritual and that people,
you know, sometimes leave us comments that they don't want
to hear that, and that's fine.

Speaker 4 (07:53):
I'm not for you then.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Because my faith is always, probably in some way, shape
or form, going to be part of a conversation, maybe
not in every single episode, but in a lot of episodes,
because at the end of the day, I'm not going
to sit in judgment against you. I'm going to sit
in judgment against Jesus Christ and his teachings' that's.

Speaker 4 (08:14):
How I view the world.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
So my loyalty and my idol is is Jesus, It's
not anybody else. So if you hate me for talking
about God, that's fine, or if you just don't want
to hear it, Like if you just don't want to
hear it, that's fine.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
But this is an episode, I think where it's absolutely mandatory.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
If you hated Charlie Kirk or you love Charlie Kirk,
you're welcome here, and we want you part of this
conversation because the conversation should not be about what did
Charlie Kirk stand for. It should be about our right
to speak our values and beliefs without fear of retribution,
without fear of losing your life. And when we have

(08:53):
political violence in a country, that's when a country stops
becoming safe and stops speaking coming free. And I feel
like we're sort of teetering on the edge. We cannot
suppress speech, we cannot suppress freedom of religion, we cannot
suppress any ideals or values. And I'm sorry, but in America.

(09:18):
You have the right to be wrong. You have the
right to say things that piss people off. You have
a right to believe in whatever religion you believe in.

Speaker 4 (09:27):
You have a right.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
And the right to life is in the Declaration of Independence.
It's the first right as when we established this nation.
And then when it's taken away, we're not free, We're pressed.

(09:49):
And I am the last person to take on oppression.
I promise you that. But it's scary that people can
be so angry that they're just overtaken by the demonic
and then the people that are losing sight over the
fact that this was a human being who has children.

Speaker 4 (10:07):
And who had and who was young, and who was young.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Again, if this person was on the left and saying,
you know, things that the other side disagreed with, I
would really hope that if that person was murdered, everybody
would still have the same exact viewpoint that that was
wrong and that's a tragedy and that's not okay to endorse.

(10:33):
I mean, I don't care who it is. I can't
endorse a gruesome murder.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
No one deserves to die for believing in what they
believe in, plain and simple, period.

Speaker 4 (10:44):
It is.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
It is that simple.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
And even I think the people maybe I know there
are some people like celebrating, which is just beyond me.
But even the people that have the I don't care
mentality sickens me as well.

Speaker 5 (10:59):
Because you should absolutely care, because regardless of where you
stand politically, this is a threat to your freedoms and
it's a threat to us all and and and this
is my argument.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
And why I not argument. I don't want to use
that word. I don't even like that word. It's it's
my point in you know, is that that's not what
it's about. It's it's about understanding that what you just said, Sarah,
as as a race, as as as a human being,

(11:35):
you are given God given rights and you shouldn't be
afraid to lose those because you simply speak out about them.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, And I think what's what's interesting, And in Jesus name,
I pray this doesn't piss people off. But what's interesting
is that we talk about silent privilege a lot right,
silent privilege, privilege that we may have as being you know,
a certain skin called or having a certain socioeconomic status

(12:03):
or whatnot. Those things, those conversations have validity, but we
also have some American silent privilege. There is privilege being
an American that a lot of people don't recognize. You know,
my husband was in the army for eleven years. He
almost died in Afghanistan, almost lost his life, met of

(12:24):
Act into Germany and multiple surgeries, brain injury, spinal surgery.
You know, his history is very tragic but also had
a beautiful ending to it. But there are people that
lose their lives fighting for the right for us to
speak out about what we believe in without being imprisoned,

(12:45):
without being murdered, and that is fading.

Speaker 4 (12:50):
It's slipping, it seems.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
And also the reason we don't have ground wars in
the US is because of the Second Amens And I
hate to say that because I know it's going to
piss people off. Does that mean I'm not for gun
control and like smart gun laws. Absolutely, I'm for smart
gun laws. I don't want to see another school shooting.
And I don't have the answer. I'm not saying I do.

(13:15):
I don't have the answer. But also, when we think
about freedom and we think about safety, the reason that
we don't have people from Russia or China dropping out
of the sky in airplanes coming into your home to
murder your family is because of you know, we can
quote Admiral Yamamoto, which it's debated if he actually said

(13:38):
this or not, but he said, we can't have we
can't invade the American homeland because there's a gun under
every blade of grass. And so I think American privilege
that is unrecognized is going to sleep at night and
not worrying about a foreign invasion on your homeland that
could kill half of our country is because as we are,

(14:01):
one of the only countries in the world that allows
us to bear arms.

Speaker 4 (14:05):
So if that makes people mad, I get it.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
I'm with you when I hear you say, but people
kids are dying, I get it, and I don't want
kids to die, and I want there to be an answer.
I think more people are aligned in the middle, common
ground than we hear about on the news. I think
the majority of Americans are for common sense gun control.
I think the majority of Americans believe in free speech.

(14:31):
I think the majority of Americans think that what happened
to Charlie Kirk is an insane, disgusting tragedy, right, But
it's it's the media's ability to make viral, all of
the outlier voices right that are celebrating Charlie Kirk's death,

(14:56):
or the outlier voices that our hate and that are divisive.

Speaker 4 (15:02):
I don't think that that's the majority of us.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
And I hope that my audience listening today, whether you're
on the left or on the right, can come together
and say, I think we're a little bit more aligned
in our values. Then we are led to believe at
the end of the day, and we are given two

(15:24):
people to choose from at the end of the day,
two people. It's not like we're giving fifty people to
choose from. And you can be like, well, I'm really
questioning your choice here. We're given two. And so I
don't fall to anybody for making one choice or the other.

Speaker 4 (15:39):
I really don't.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
I have no judgment to people, no matter who you
choose to vote for, no matter what side of the
political aisle you are on, because I don't.

Speaker 4 (15:47):
Really fit them.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Mold. So I can see, you know, positive aspects of
both sides, and I can see negative aspects of both sides.
But what I can't see any positive in is celebrate
a tragic death that occurred in front of their family.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Yeah, and young and young people's lives. I mean, there
were tons of college students, and yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
I can't I can't see a positive in that scenario
at all. It will even if everything out of his
mouth you said was evil. We don't fight evil with evil.
An eye for an eye leaves both people blind, That's right.
And Jesus commanded to love that enemy. He commanded it.
And I had somebody on my TikTok this morning, and

(16:32):
my TikTok this morning was about how if you, if
you haven't had to look your kid in the eye
and tell them that their father was dead, maybe we
should Maybe you should not take part in this discussion
because I've had to do that, and it's a level
of pain and a level of trauma that honestly, most
people can't really comprehend. And can we not see some

(16:56):
humanity in the fact that there's a woman who's going
to have to try to explain to her two children
what they saw and their brains and their nervous systems
will never be the same ember again and.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
Then live their whole lives never knowing that.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, so why are we celebrating childhood trauma? Why are
we celebrating that. I just can't get on board with that,
and I would like to believe that everybody that's listening
today can at least go, yeah, you know what, You're right.
Maybe I didn't love what he had to say. Maybe
I thought, you know, he's spewed hate. That's your right
to believe that, that's your right. I'm not arguing with
your your belief system here. I'm arguing with the fact

(17:32):
that you believe that he should die over it if
you do, or that he deserved to me, that you
don't care magically murdered, or that if you simply don't care.
We should care about all loss of life of the innocent.

Speaker 4 (17:46):
We should care about that.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
I want to talk a little bit about these about
the mental illness that you feel in your opinion, right
in your professional opinion, about what leads people down this
road to go to a place like the person who
did this to Charlie Kirk did.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
First and foremost, I think anybody that did this is
demonically oppressed. It's an oppression from the demonic And this
is a spiritual world, guys. This is a spiritual battle.
It's not between flesh and blood. It's against good and evil,
and at the end of the day, I think the
devil's voice is first he's a liar, but he's very convincing.

(18:27):
And I think it starts with fear, and it starts
with victimization. I'm afraid of what you have to say,
and I'm a victim, and so the only way I
cannot be a victim is to silence you. And that
is the devil's playground, because, like we said in a

(18:48):
couple episodes ago, fear's opposite of faith. And then victimization
is the super glue to hell. If you are determined
to stay oppressed and you believe there's nothing that can
be about it, you will stay oppressed.

Speaker 4 (19:02):
There's no other road.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
I'm oppressed and I can't get out of it, Well,
then you're going to give up.

Speaker 4 (19:09):
And I think that's what these people do.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
I think they get to a point of sheer desperation
because they're overcome with fear and they're overcome with self
pity and oppression, and they don't believe that their actions matter,
and they believe they have to go all the way
to this drastic action to matter, and nothing could be
further from the truth. Every little act of kindness you

(19:32):
put out into the world matters. The smallest act of kindness,
holding the door open for somebody matters, speaking life into somebody.
When somebody you compliment them, you have no idea what
people are facing every day in their lives. And to
be so callous, and to be so to look at
people with such disdain is selfish and it's entitled, and

(19:56):
it's the opposite of what Jesus taught. I think we
need to go about our world looking for as many
ways to be kind and helpful, but also truthful as possible.
I think love means telling the truth. I tell my

(20:17):
clients all the time. In conflict resolution, your job is
to speak your truth, but to have empathy for your partner.
Nobody is asking you to abandon your reality in favor
of someone else's. That's dangerous.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
You don't have to agree.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
You don't have to agree, and this is what I
teach in conflict resolution. You do not have to agree
with your partner. Let's just pretend you said something to
me that I didn't like. I was like, well, that
was rude. Like in my brain, I'm like, I didn't
like that. I have some options here. I can snap
back at you and be rude or mean back to you,

(20:54):
or I can go Hold on a second, I don't
love what she said, And how do I want to
handle this with love?

Speaker 4 (21:04):
How do I want to handle this with respect?

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Because I can't control you and what you just said, right,
But I can control me and what I put out
into the world. And I'm determined to put love out
into the world. Right, So I can handle you back
with love or I can handle you back with hate.
I can And so this is what I don't understand
about the whole Charlie Kirk argument. A lot of people
were posting on not a lot some we're posting on

(21:27):
my post like quotes from Charlie Kirk about how he
didn't like the word empathy. So then they're like, so
I'm not going to give him any empathy because he
said he doesn't believe in empathy. I'm like, hold on
a second, this looks like hypocrisy to me. You're saying
you're mad at him because he doesn't like the word empathy,
so you're going to stoop to the level you believe
he's at to prove a point and not have empathy.

(21:50):
You say not having empathy is bad, so you're going
to prove that point by not having empathy. Right, Yeah,
that's quite it's completely hypocritical. Same thing with the gun argument. Well,
live by the Sorba, Dad by the sord He didn't
want gun control? Yeah, well, first of all, I think
most Americans do want some form of gun control. We
don't want just everybody in the world to just have,

(22:13):
you know, unlimited access to guns. I think there are
there's a middle ground between having no guns and having
unrestricted guns. Right, there's a middle freaking ground there, and
I think most of us are like wanting to try
to find where that is. But if you are, your
like die on the hill? Is gun violence?

Speaker 4 (22:34):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, I get it. It's a huge problem, and I
want to see it fixed too. I don't want anybody
to die by gun violence. Then why are you celebrating
a death by gun violence?

Speaker 3 (22:41):
Exactly?

Speaker 2 (22:43):
This makes no freaking sense to me. Yeah, get the
log out of your eye. Okay, get the log.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
And I mean one of the tragedies that happened this
weekend didn't even involve gun a gun.

Speaker 4 (22:56):
No, somebody was stabbed in the neck.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Look, Timothy McVeigh blew up a whole building and killed children,
and killed hundreds or thousands of people in the Oklahoma
City bombing.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
Yeah, I mean, it's just the tool.

Speaker 4 (23:10):
It's just a tool at the end of the day.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yes, we have to have some laws that govern a
deadly tool, I believe some degree, but we have.

Speaker 4 (23:20):
To get it. It is a right.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
It is a right too, and so we have to
be careful when we start restricting rights. We have to
be careful that's right, and what those restrictions look like.
There's a middle ground here.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
Well, and there's a deeper root calls, right.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
There's a deeper root calls, which is the demonic evil
in the world where fallen world people. It's been fallen
since the day that Eve ate the apple. There's always
going to be suffering. There's always going to be human tragedy.
But it's when we become complacent about it and we
start to say, well, this tragedy matters, but this one doesn't,
Or that tragedy matters but this one doesn't. All the

(23:57):
tragedies matter, And no, we don't need to be making
everything political. We're also allowed to have some sanity and
to disengage. It's another conversation they're trying to cancel Taylor
Swift now because she's not using her platform right in
this season of her life to speak about politics. And
I'm just like, GESU all, please people. She not allowed

(24:18):
to be engaged and plan her wedding.

Speaker 3 (24:20):
She's not allowed to be human. I suppose.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
I think. I think we just see fair and I
think that's at the essence of this is we dehumanize
people so badly all the time. We dehumanize them when
they disagree with us, We dehumanize them when they vote
on the other side of the aisle. We dehumanize them
when there's tragedy and we make it political. We use
it as a chance to spike the football before they're
even in the ground.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
And another dangerous thing I think that's happening is just
pure disassociation from it all.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Oh yeah, like that, I don't even care to It
doesn't even I don't even feel a pang in my chest.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
When I hear this that that really is concerning.

Speaker 4 (24:55):
You don't even feel the tiniest punch in the guy.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
That might be more concerning, actually, I think, because you
know emotion, if we're talking about like good and bad
or you know, good and evil, it's like and I've
struggled with this with my own son, is like, sometimes
I just want him to show something, whatever it may be,
whether it's good, whether it's bad, whether it's mad, whether
it's sad, you know, but nothing concerns me more.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
It's complacency, it's it's maybe desensitized ourselves to it.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
Yeah, I think that's a lot of that is going on.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
I mean, I all these videos are it happened?

Speaker 4 (25:31):
The video, the up closed videos.

Speaker 3 (25:34):
I will not watch it. I will not watch it.

Speaker 4 (25:37):
I couldn't. I can't like why why?

Speaker 1 (25:40):
Because I would my mind would never be able to
unsee it, and then it would just be more traumatizing
than it already is.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
And so I can't. I refuse, I will not want which.

Speaker 4 (25:49):
Is just as horrific as you could have ever imagined.

Speaker 3 (25:51):
I can't. I can't.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
And then I think that you know, something I read
yesterday is we're using and this is dehumanizing us. We're
using death and murder as as a form of entertainment.
And I think that you know, social media plays a
role in this and the mass reach that people have,
and again not saying that we have the answers, I

(26:16):
think that you know, you do, for one what you
wish to do for many, And ultimately I think that
that's our mission here at the Love Dog is to
to do for one what we want to do for millions,
and that's to really get to the deep root causes
of emotional pain.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
It is, and I think it goes beyond emotional pain,
though I think it goes I think it does go
to the demonic.

Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
I mean most humans could not bring themselves to kill
another person. No, and so unless you know, they're defending
their own life, right, But that's what we're looking at,
psycho the here, right. We're not looking at a crime
of passion or impulse, as bad as those are. We're

(27:06):
looking at somebody who was cold and calculated and premeditated
and probably relished in knowing that they were going to
traumatize people and end somebody's life. And if your response
to that is anything anything but that is wrong, I'm

(27:26):
okay with losing you as a follower. I'm okay with that.
I am okay with at the end of the day,
my follower account going down because you refuse to see
murder as a tragedy. And like I said, I am,
I am here with you. If you disagreed with what
he said. I can support your right to believe that.

(27:46):
I can be here with you if you loved what
he said. I can support your right because I believe
you're an American and you have the right.

Speaker 4 (27:53):
To speak whatever the hell it is you want to speak.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Amen, you even have the right to speak freely and
joyfully celebrate the murder of Charlie Kirk. I think it
makes you indecent and inhumane. But I also don't think
you can be arrested for it either.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
No, you can't.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
You can't, right, But we can think you're disgusting. Yeah,
we can think that it's gross. Yeah, And I don't
apologize for that. I don't apologize for saying that, celebrating
trauma and murder it's gross.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
Yeah, it's grotesque, it's awful, it's terrible.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
I apologize none for that. No, No, I apologize none
for that.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
And that's where I think, you know, we've we can
lost our way. We can yeah and well, and where
we can speak really open and truthfully because these are
really sensitive subjects and we absolutely take that into consideration.
When we're sitting here unscripted trying to talk about this stuff.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Think about it from a relationship standpoint. Again, in conflict,
if my husband gets upset for something that I said,
I can go, Okay, you know, I'm choosing to love
someone with a certain level of sensitivity or a certain

(29:22):
need for a certain way of communication. I'm choosing to
be in partnership with this person, in love with this person.
And I can do a couple of things. I can go, well,
you're too sensitive and you shouldn't have taken it that way,
and that wasn't my intent.

Speaker 4 (29:36):
So go piss off, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Or I can say, wow, I see the impacts that
I've had on you, and I don't like that impact,
and I apologize for impacting you that way. And I
feel misunderstood here, and I feel like, you know, that
wasn't my intent to hurt you in that way. So
in no way did I say, you know what, You're right,
I'm an insensitive a whole, and I agree that you're

(30:00):
level of sensitivity is the appropriate level.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Right.

Speaker 4 (30:02):
I actually didn't say that.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
No, No, what I said is I recognize the impact
I'm having on you, and because I love you and
I'm choosing to love.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
You, I'm willing to see yourself.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
I'm willing to understand you. So what ends up happening
in conflict and relationships so much is people get so
stuck on No, it's my reality, that's correct. No it's
my reality. No it's my reality. No it's my reality. No,
it's my reality. When our job isn't to pull someone
out of their reality, Our job is to understand theirs
and to stay ours without abandoning your own. And in

(30:36):
all honesty, whether you agreed with the content of his message,
I do believe those were his methods.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
His methods were to debate openly and honestly. You tell
me why you believe what you do, and I'll tell
you why I believe I.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Was just trying to create well, I don't want to
use the word healthy, but because again I think a
lot of people could disagree with that. But I think
he was just trying to create a rhetoric between young
people so that they could create critical thinking skills.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
I think he was just trying to bring discourse, civil discourse,
and it was always civil. There was, you know, at
least from what I understand, And of course I didn't
watch a ton of his content. I have some content
that I've seen, but I you know, I'm not a
Charlie Kirk expert over here. I didn't in the content

(31:31):
that I watched, I didn't see him ever calling anybody
a name, or advocating for anybody to be harmed, or
advocating for violence. I didn't see any of those things.
I watched a lot of his content. I mean, honestly,
he just showed up a lot on my algorithm during
the election. And maybe maybe it was because I was

(31:51):
about to send a kid off to college.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
I don't know and always understand how the algorithm works.
But to me, most of what he said was just
common sense. I mean, one of the ones that I
remember watching, you know, a girl was arguing the topic
of abortion and that you know, it was her right

(32:14):
and you know, her choice, and that if she didn't,
if she was to get pregnant in college, you know,
she would have to drop out of college and how
awful that would be. And you know, Charlie's argument was just, hey,
you know, if you were going to choose to partake
in sexual activity, you also have to face the consequences

(32:36):
that can come from that. And you know, again there's
more to it in terms of like the rhetoric between them,
but you know she was gung ho about like arguing
her fact. And I think Charlie's point all along was
just hey, I'm here to just preach, not really preach,
but just say, hey, here is the act, here is

(33:00):
the consequence.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
I think at the end of the day, God tells
us that we are supposed to love the people we
disagree with, but that doesn't mean taking on their opinion either, right,
So I think that's what we keep in mind. If
you're pro choice and you come across a pro life person,
realize that at the end of the day, you get
to keep your reality and you get to keep your opinion.
You shouldn't be threatened by somebody else's opinion, right, And

(33:24):
then you use the power that we are given, which
is with your vote, to make the difference. That's the
only true real power we have. And you can advocate
and you can stand up for what you believe in,
hopefully without getting killed.

Speaker 4 (33:39):
That's why we're here.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
That's right, right, I mean, what if he was protesting
at a pro choice rally, would you agree that?

Speaker 4 (33:47):
Would you be tap dancing on his grave?

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Then at what point do we draw the line and
say no, it doesn't matter what is political beliefs were
who cares?

Speaker 1 (33:55):
And I think the power of curiosity is too often
overlooked to your because what a powerful tool that we
have at our disposal at all times is to lean
into people more with more curiosity and wonder and ask
why they think and believe.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
The way that they do.

Speaker 4 (34:13):
Why do you believe that right?

Speaker 3 (34:14):
And everybody's got their right story.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
That's the point, Like we should if we stand on business,
if we have a really strong conviction, we should know
why we believe it. And I think a lot of
what was exposed was a lot of our youth didn't
know why they believed the way they did, and I
think that it made I think some people feel like
Charlie was out to embarrass people, and I don't particularly

(34:38):
think that was his goal, but I can see why
people felt that way, and he still didn't deserve to
get shot and killed at the end of the day,
Like can we just all agree on that? Like that's
really all we're asking is, so let's come together as
humans and say that violence is never the answer. It's
never the answer, ever, ever, ever the answer, because God

(35:00):
says it's never the answer, and that goes for political violence,
that goes for violence on our streets, goes in our schools.

Speaker 4 (35:10):
It's never okay.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
And I don't have all the answers politically, and I
don't really like either. I don't like politics at all.
I'm sickened by Frankly, both sides.

Speaker 4 (35:18):
I can't today. I know I can't.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
I sick either. Yeah, I'm just feeling like this pit
in my stomach. I felt it, you know, all day
yesterday and all day to day.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
And and you know, I kept looking at Josh last
night and like, I don't know what to do.

Speaker 3 (35:31):
I just like I don't know what to do.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
I don't know. I can't disassociate from this. I can't
escape these feelings. Like and I just but I think
we're meant to sit in it, just like when we
have any type of pain.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
Suffering, we're meant to say it. We're meant to learn
from it, We're meant to grow from it. So what
if at all good can come out of this?

Speaker 3 (35:51):
There will be there, always is.

Speaker 4 (35:53):
Well, God says, there will be right with love.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
With love, because love is the only thing that can
fight darkness.

Speaker 4 (35:57):
Yeah, love, perfect love, all fear. Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
There can't be darkness when there's light, and our job
is to be the light even when you disagree with someone.
And I want people to disagree with me, disagree with me,
let's teach me something, but let's have a conversation. Let's
not go to low blows. Let's not go to character assassinations,
and let's not go to true assassinations, because that's horrific.

(36:25):
And I think that that's the point that we're trying
to make with this episode, is scale it back.

Speaker 4 (36:31):
It's easy to be a.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Keyboard warrior where you feel all big and tough, but
if you had to sit and stare at his wife
and children's face, I don't think you would say the
stuff that you're saying online to the people that are
celebrating and spitting on him in the hour of his
tragic death.

Speaker 4 (36:48):
I think that.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
I personally know, I don't care what side of the
aisle you are on. If you're shot and killed in
front of your children, I'm going to pray, I'm going
to shed a tear. I'm going to condemn that from
every corner, absolutely and so, and I think that you
should too, regardless if it's because you're a believer and
you believe that Christ said that we are commanded, commanded, commanded,

(37:11):
he did not stutter, commanded to love our enemies. And
that might not look like agreeing with everything, but it
looks like not dehumanizing people and making them less than human.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
It's right, And we hope again that the overall message
here is just one of love, one of compassion, one
of you know, trying to understand the understand the misunderstandings
of the world. You know, because we're here sitting as
sinners and people who don't absolutely do not have all
the answers. But what we do have is a platform

(37:51):
that we can hope and pray can bring people together.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Yeah, at the end of the day, you don't have
to like what someone says. You don't have to agree
with their beliefs. Nobody is ever saying you have to
agree with someone. What we're saying is you are commanded
to love them. And sometimes loving someone is telling them
the truth, it is setting boundaries with them, It is
saying no, you know, I'm not gonna put up with

(38:17):
this behavior, right, and so the boundary that I'm setting
today is on any of my platforms, if you come
with hate and cruelty, and dehumanization. You're going to probably
be removed civil discourse, disagreement. Your right to speak your
values and beliefs always welcome here, even if they're different

(38:39):
from my own. Your right to say, hey, I don't
believe in Christ. Okay again, I am not here to
please you. I'm here to please God. So if that,
at the end of the day means that you don't
want to be my friend or my follower, that's okay,

(39:00):
be fine.

Speaker 4 (39:01):
But I beg of you to go out and try
to make a difference in the world through love and
through good instead of through hate. Please.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Yes, So that's all we're trying to do here. And
of course, guys, please this this episode is so important
to us. It was a hard episode to do, maybe
one of the hardest for me personally. And we've been
doing this for you know, a year and a half now,

(39:32):
but I was really you know, in my feels going
into this episode. So your support, your comments, your feedback,
as long as they're ones that are nice and kind. Again,
even if you disagreee we welcome them. We welcome them.
We love your feedback. We love when you guys reach

(39:53):
out to us and write us. I read every email guys,
and I try to read all the review use can't
always get to all those, but we just welcome anything
that you have to say. Yeah, civil discourse of course,
So please, you know, continue to like, follow, listen, share,

(40:13):
you know, these episodes with your friends, because our message
is clear here and that message is one of love.
And that's really all we're trying to do, and we
mean that from like our core, our cellular level is
what we're trying to do is just spread love. And so,
of course, if you're looking for more intervention in your

(40:33):
personal relationships shameless plug here, we should go see doctor
Hensley at thelovedoc dot com check out all of her
services there, and of course for all of our listeners,
we offer a special promo code for twenty seven percent
off all of those services with love promo code love
dot twenty seven. So please continue to listen and give

(40:56):
us feedback. We love you guys so much much. We
cannot wait to just keep giving you, guys, all the
things that you're asking for. Please again, write us and
tell us what you want to hear about, because we
are always looking for Ideas we've said before, we'll say
it again. Half the time we drive here and decide

(41:17):
what we're going to talk about, so feel free to
write in and give us some topics that you guys
want to hear about as well. Absolutely, and until next time, peace,
love and perspective.

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