Hosted by Dr. Sarah Hensley, Specialized Social Psychologist, Attachment Theory Expert, and Founder & CEO of The Love Doc Relationship Coaching Services with Co-host Raina Butcher, Owner/CEO of Joyful Consulting, LLC.
Welcome to "The Love Doc Podcast" where Host Dr. Sarah Hensley and her co-host Raina Butcher dive deep into the intricacies of love, attraction, attachment, relationships, and self-awareness. Dr. Hensley brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to help listeners navigate the complexities of modern romance. In each episode, Dr. Hensley tackles burning questions about love, relationships, and the mind’s complexities, drawing from her psychological research, real-life experiences, and her own individual expertise, to provide insightful perspectives and practical advice.
Episode 49: Work/Relationship Balance with Special Guest: Josee Tremblay, Author of Us and Yet and Yet
In this powerful episode, Dr. Sarah Hensley and co-host Raina Butcher sit down with special guest Josee Tremblay, a mechanical engineer and author of Us and Yet and Yet, to discuss one of the most common but rarely addressed struggles in modern relationships—how to strike a healthy balance between work and intimacy. Josee shares her journey as a woman navigating a male-dominated industry and how her career led her to a deeper understanding of feminine and masculine energies within romantic partnerships. Her personal experiences inspired her to write a book that speaks directly to high-achieving women who feel the strain of “doing it all” and crave a better connection with their partners at home.
The conversation dives into how career-driven women—especially those in high-stress, high-performance roles—often find themselves stuck in masculine energy even after they clock out. Josee, Dr. Hensley, and Raina all reflect on how they’ve had to intentionally shift into their feminine energy in their personal lives to create space for their partners to naturally step into their masculine roles. Dr. Hensley explains how this energetic polarity is essential to maintaining desire, harmony, and emotional connection in long-term relationships. The episode highlights the subtle but significant ways that career ambition, daily responsibilities, and over-functioning behaviors can affect the relational dynamic.
Josee also brings depth to the conversation by exploring the archetypes she covers in her book, shedding light on how different energy patterns and identities show up in relationships. Whether it’s the Overachiever, the Perfectionist, or the Self-Sacrificing Giver, each archetype holds insight into how we unconsciously operate when under stress or pressure. Dr. Hensley connects this framework to attachment theory, highlighting how dismissive avoidants in particular—whether male or female—struggle the most with balancing work and relational life. She explains that DAs often turn to work, tasks, or hobbies as a way to feel effective, valued, and in control—especially when emotional intimacy feels vulnerable or unsafe. This can manifest in surprising ways, such as a stay-at-home mom who over-schedules the kids to avoid deeper connection with her partner.
Throughout the episode, listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own patterns and consider how attachment styles, emotional wounds, and internalized beliefs about productivity impact their relationships. Dr. Hensley emphasizes that healing begins with self-awareness—and that shifting from “doing” to “being” is a powerful act of love, both for ourselves and our partners. Whether you’re a high-powered professional, an entrepreneur, or someone simply juggling the demands of life and love, this conversation will leave you with tangible insights on how to show up more present, connected, and whole in your relationship.
Tune in to "The Love Doc Podcast" every Tuesday morning for candid conversations, expert guidance, and a deeper understanding of life, love and relationships in the modern world. To see all of Dr. Hensley’s services please visit the links below and follow her on social media.
PROMO CODE FOR OUR LISTNERS: Use LOVEDOC27 to receive 27% off any of Dr. Hensley's courses or her Hybrid Group Coaching Program.
Dr. Hensley’s Hybrid Group Coaching: https://courses.thelovedoc.com/group-coaching
Book one on one with Dr. Hensley or one of her certified coaches: Virtual Coaching
Purchase Dr. Hensley’s online courses: https://courses.thelovedoc.com/courses
Tik-Tok: @drsarahhensley
Instagram: @dr.sarahhensley_lovedoc
Facebook: Dr.
Welcome to "The Love Doc Podcast" where Host Dr. Sarah Hensley and her co-host Raina Butcher dive deep into the intricacies of love, attraction, attachment, relationships, and self-awareness. Dr. Hensley brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to help listeners navigate the complexities of modern romance. In each episode, Dr. Hensley tackles burning questions about love, relationships, and the mind’s complexities, drawing from her psychological research, real-life experiences, and her own individual expertise, to provide insightful perspectives and practical advice.
Episode 49: Work/Relationship Balance with Special Guest: Josee Tremblay, Author of Us and Yet and Yet
In this powerful episode, Dr. Sarah Hensley and co-host Raina Butcher sit down with special guest Josee Tremblay, a mechanical engineer and author of Us and Yet and Yet, to discuss one of the most common but rarely addressed struggles in modern relationships—how to strike a healthy balance between work and intimacy. Josee shares her journey as a woman navigating a male-dominated industry and how her career led her to a deeper understanding of feminine and masculine energies within romantic partnerships. Her personal experiences inspired her to write a book that speaks directly to high-achieving women who feel the strain of “doing it all” and crave a better connection with their partners at home.
The conversation dives into how career-driven women—especially those in high-stress, high-performance roles—often find themselves stuck in masculine energy even after they clock out. Josee, Dr. Hensley, and Raina all reflect on how they’ve had to intentionally shift into their feminine energy in their personal lives to create space for their partners to naturally step into their masculine roles. Dr. Hensley explains how this energetic polarity is essential to maintaining desire, harmony, and emotional connection in long-term relationships. The episode highlights the subtle but significant ways that career ambition, daily responsibilities, and over-functioning behaviors can affect the relational dynamic.
Josee also brings depth to the conversation by exploring the archetypes she covers in her book, shedding light on how different energy patterns and identities show up in relationships. Whether it’s the Overachiever, the Perfectionist, or the Self-Sacrificing Giver, each archetype holds insight into how we unconsciously operate when under stress or pressure. Dr. Hensley connects this framework to attachment theory, highlighting how dismissive avoidants in particular—whether male or female—struggle the most with balancing work and relational life. She explains that DAs often turn to work, tasks, or hobbies as a way to feel effective, valued, and in control—especially when emotional intimacy feels vulnerable or unsafe. This can manifest in surprising ways, such as a stay-at-home mom who over-schedules the kids to avoid deeper connection with her partner.
Throughout the episode, listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own patterns and consider how attachment styles, emotional wounds, and internalized beliefs about productivity impact their relationships. Dr. Hensley emphasizes that healing begins with self-awareness—and that shifting from “doing” to “being” is a powerful act of love, both for ourselves and our partners. Whether you’re a high-powered professional, an entrepreneur, or someone simply juggling the demands of life and love, this conversation will leave you with tangible insights on how to show up more present, connected, and whole in your relationship.
Tune in to "The Love Doc Podcast" every Tuesday morning for candid conversations, expert guidance, and a deeper understanding of life, love and relationships in the modern world. To see all of Dr. Hensley’s services please visit the links below and follow her on social media.
PROMO CODE FOR OUR LISTNERS: Use LOVEDOC27 to receive 27% off any of Dr. Hensley's courses or her Hybrid Group Coaching Program.
Dr. Hensley’s Hybrid Group Coaching: https://courses.thelovedoc.com/group-coaching
Book one on one with Dr. Hensley or one of her certified coaches: Virtual Coaching
Purchase Dr. Hensley’s online courses: https://courses.thelovedoc.com/courses
Tik-Tok: @drsarahhensley
Instagram: @dr.sarahhensley_lovedoc
Facebook: Dr.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Love Dog Podcast. I'm your co host
Raina Butcher here with our host, doctor Sarah Hensley. Hello, Hello, Hello,
And we also have special guests today Josie Trimblay.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hi, Josie, Hi Hillo.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
So Josie is the author of the book Us and
Yet yet correct? Yes, yes and background yeah so, And
we'll put a link and everything to your book, of
course in our description. But today episode forty nine, we
want to talk, of course about your book, and we
want to talk about the balance between work and relationships,
(00:49):
which I know a lot of your book covers. So
first and foremost, just tell us a little bit about
yourself and tell us a little bit about your book.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Okay, Well, I'm a mechanical engineer by trade. So I
had a long career in mechanical engineering and I went
on to deal with international assignments in Asia, in North America.
I lived in the US for a while. I'm based
out of Canada right now. I do mechanical engineering work,
(01:17):
but also all sorts of engineering. A couple of years ago,
I came across this document that said we were leaving
on the table one hundred and seventy two trillion dollars
worldwide by not harnesting the power of women at work.
And I thought, okay. I met with my CEO, a
first CEO and career and he's ninety two now, and
(01:41):
he said to me, he says every time I come
home and my spouse. I talked to my spouse about
something that I have trouble with. She says, Jim, what
are you going to do about it? And I thought, okay.
Two years ago, see one hundred and seventy two trillion
dollars of money and being left on the table. I
thought I needed to do something. So I started writing
(02:04):
Coach and I ended up writing the book. The book
was really about the whole life architecture. I thought, if
we want to succeed as women in business, it's not
possible for us to be alone. We need to figure
out our support network. Whether it's having awesome support at
home and they can do all the things that you
(02:25):
would not normally have the time to do if you're
on a business trip or things like that, and it's
also having the support mentally, so you come home and
you need to have a way to vent, and you
need to have a way to explore the stress that
exists within like a pretty demanding career. So my thought was,
(02:46):
we need to look at the whole life architecture, and
it starts also with having a nice relationship with a spouse.
If you have the chance of having a spouse, and
they're a key pillar in that arsenal if you will
of life architecture to support your life. So I explore that,
and then your podcast really explore many things that I
(03:09):
thought would be very interesting to mix in the conversation.
I'm really enthusiastic about hearing what doctor Hansley is going
to tell us about that attachment that you might have
for a great career, but at the same time navigating
that tug of war with the demand of home, life,
(03:33):
right and family.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
And so I know I already know what Doc's going
to say.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I've been here long enough, I know, But you know,
chime in here, Doc with you know what you think,
what you see mostly in your practice in terms of
the attachment styles, whether that be female or male, because
we know that attachment styles don't really aren't gender specific,
but they really struggle with that work and family balance.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Yes, it would be for sure the dismissive avoidant. They
tend to be workaholics. If they're not workaholics, they're hobbyholics.
But I would say more commonly they are workaholics because
work is a place where they can feel successful where
sort of they struggle in their romantic relationships feeling defective,
feeling like they can't meet other people's needs and meet
(04:21):
other people's expectations.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
But they usually tend.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
To really thrive in a fast paced or very complex
work environment, and it helps them stay distracted from their feelings,
It helps them stay suppressed from their emotions concerning their relationship,
and they tend to be high functioning in work and
feel very highly competent at work, where the opposite is
true inside of their relationships.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
So I'm interested to.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Know a little bit more about how you feel like
people's romantic relationships can really be impacted by being very
successful at work, and give us a little bit of
a gener or break down too. What are the things
that are unique to women and how does this affect
men as well?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah, I like the fact that you say how it
affects men too, because we have our spouse have experienced
similar things. They go to work. If you are a
dual career couple, you go to work and you come
home and they have their struggles as well. And when
you're not super mentally fit to come home and support
(05:27):
that partner, it affects both both sides. And you wanted
to explore. I have an extract from my book. I'm
going to just read it. I have it right in
front of me. I pulled it out because I thought
it was very relevant to exactly what you're talking about.
It says the price of success for women at work
can be high. The average female manager is less likely
(05:50):
to be married and more likely to be childless than
her male counterpartner. Half of all women managers are childless,
and they are twice as likely to have been divorced
or separated as their male colleagues. The majority of male
managers' wives were there to be supportive, while the majority
(06:12):
of female managers were in a dual earner relationship, if
they were in one at all. And so that I know,
my heart so sad when I read this, you know,
and I'm gonna have a tear. But when you said
suppress feeling, it really resonated for me, doctor Hansley, because
(06:38):
I remember taking a thirty day challenge for what do
you call it? To meditation in the morning. So it
was like thirty day meditation, and it was one that
you were supposed to feel. All you could feel, you
could hear, all you could hear, you could see, all
you could see. It was like really kind of elevating
(06:58):
your sensory emotion. And because I've been in a high
intensity work environment, I've worked coping mechanisms over the years
where I even kill deal with stress, you know, and
I don't. I tried to be supportive for the team
(07:19):
so they don't see their boss being like all excited.
But at the same time, what it does to my
own body is I think I'm suppressing a lot of
the emotions that I should be feeling. And this thirty
day meditation after twenty I went into work the afternoon
(07:42):
and I literally had a panic attack at work. I was, Oh,
my god, this is making me feel too much of
my own emotion. And it almost hit me like a
brick because Wow, how much emotion every day am I suppressing.
(08:04):
I'm in this high intensity role, and so it was
a big red relation. But where I was going with
this is like, it's so important that when you come
home you have almost like a relief and a way
and a partner to be there to communicate with you.
And it becomes more and more difficult when in your
dual career and you didn't have that space during the
(08:25):
day to be yourself and to explore your own emotion.
It makes it more difficult to sustain a long term
partner relationship at home. And I'm on my second relationship.
I think you need to find the right characteristics for
And it sounds like you two have phenomenal partners as well.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
I heard that, but we're sort of both on our
second round too. You know, I was never married before.
But you know, something that I just thought of while
you were talking, Josie, is something that Doc talks about
a lot, which is, you know, self regulation and coregulation.
And I think it's important to touch on just based
on what you said, because you know, self regulation can
be really, really hard, but if you're able to find
(09:10):
somebody who you can co regulate with, for those people
who maybe suppress a lot or are in high stress,
high intensity, you know, high up roles with their career,
it's really nice to have that person to come home
to that can help you, like you said, soften and
(09:30):
that really nice soft place to fall, and.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I know that it's not always possible.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
So Doc, I want you to hit on, you know,
just the importance of self regulation and coregulation. And you know,
obviously both are equally as important.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Absolutely, so we need both self regulation and coregulation to
be successful in our romantic relationships. So we need to
be able to bring ourselves into a sense of safety,
and I always believe that has to happen first before
we can co regulate, because to regulated people can't co regulate,
We're just going to get more dysregulated. Right if our
(10:05):
partner's also disregulated, we need at least one person to
be the oak tree that can ground the pair. But
we also need to have to have co regulation where
we can sort of sinc in with our partner and
we can allow them to sue us and allow them
to support us and allow them to help. You know,
(10:26):
just relax our nervous system to some degree, because when
you're in a high stress work environment, your nervous system
is probably not operating in a very regulated state. You're
facing a lot of problems, a lot of challenges, And
the words I like to use is just putting out
a lot of fires. We do that you know, being
a high level CEO, you're putting out a lot of fires,
(10:47):
and you need to be able to switch into energy
where someone else can take the lead. And I'm really
lucky that I have a husband who is now a
stay at home dad. He's a retired military veteran, and
I had a successful contracting business, but as my business grew,
it just didn't make sense anymore to have someone that
(11:08):
was a stranger kind of raising our kids and eating
door dash all the time. That was what we were
doing and it wasn't working, and if we looked at
the money, it just made more sense for him to
lay down his business. And it's really wonderful to see
him take that role of dad really seriously and to
be there for our kids. But he's also a support
for me when I walk out of my office at
(11:30):
the end of the day and I just want to
kind of collapse on the floor, where he can be like, well,
dinner's taken care of, the kids are taking care of.
Everything around here is taking care of and you can
just kind of breathe and let go. I also had
it the opposite way in my first marriage. We were
a dual income house. I was working very, very hard.
In fact, I was teaching lots of adjunct classes on
(11:52):
top of my full teaching load to make extra money,
and then I had a husband that did virtually nothing
to help me with the house or the kids. So
I do think that it really negatively affected my mental
health and my relationship because I had zero work life
balance and so, but I also, on the flip side
of that, want to acknowledge that for men, it can
(12:13):
be hard to have a woman who is very successful
in their career in their lives because it can tap
into some of their insecurities about needing to be the
provider and needing to be the one who's making more
money and in being more successful in their work life.
(12:33):
So talk to us a little bit about that, specifically
about how if you want to be a very successful woman,
how can you help support your partner in being in
being supportive of you as the one who is quote
unquote more successful in the relationship workwise.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Wow, So I love where you're going with this. My
chapter two of the book is about finding power in
the archetypes.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
And yeah, tell us more about the archetype. I would
like to learn more about this.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
So I looked at all sorts of historical adage, historical knowledge,
and in most cultures, they will be highlighting the two archetypes,
being one feminine and one masculine archetype, and they'll put
different stories around these archetypes. And our children are going
(13:28):
to grow and listen or listen to stories that are
actually describing to us what these archetypes are. And because
I'm a woman stem I was one women out of
twelve at the table most of my career, so I'm
in a highly male dominated environment. It changed a little
(13:51):
bit towards the end of my career as a mechanical
engineer directly currently I'm doing consultancy, so that's why I'm
kind of describing it a little bit in the past.
It's a couple of years ago that I ended my
mechanical engineering per se career, and this part of me
(14:11):
was discovered that I needed to be with my partner,
someone that I wasn't necessarily at home and my second
maybe ten years ago, we went on this Tony Robbins,
I don't know if you know, he's quite yeah, yeah,
(14:33):
yeah yeah. So we went my spouse and I went
to this date with Destiny, and in date with Destiny,
he brings his spouse and they share about this construct
of feminine and masculine energy and how important it is
for you to cultivate your feminine energy in your relationship.
(14:54):
And I was, like, cultivate my feminine energy in my relationship.
So they were describing to me like, I need to
let my spouse take care of all the financial stuff,
and I need to let my spouse take care of
all these things that I need to be soft and
I need to be And at the time it didn't
resonate that much. And then I realize it was a
(15:15):
golden nugget. It was the golden nugget I did not
have when I was in my twenties, and I did
not succeed in my first marriage. I guess so. But really,
my second spouse and I are looking at the world
very differently since we went to date with Destiny. We're
interacting with each other very differently. I'm the kind of
(15:37):
person who managed large capital investments. I managed large portfolios
all my life, multi billion dollar p and L. And
I looked at this and I thought, I'm very good
at finance. I'm very good at all these aspects that
are very male dominated, and good at fixing your heating
(15:58):
system and your house. I'm shooting my hitting system in
my house. So I'm good at all these things where
you find a lot of gentlemen normally, So how do
I actually succeed in a relationship while being this full
fledged mechanical engineer at work? And it was a challenge
(16:18):
and it didn't rub me the right way. When Tony
Robbins was telling me, you need to actually let go
of finance, and I was like, this doesn't work. But
what he was telling us was that I needed to
be in my feminine archetype when I'm at home, and
my spouse needs to be in the masculine archetype when
(16:40):
he's at home and interacting between the two of us.
We started changing a few things. I started not paying
for the bill at the restaurant. It sounds like a
small stuff, it's significant. I could just continue to have,
you know, the rest of my beverage and sit back
and relax and be my soft side at home, and
(17:02):
he can take care of the bill and worry about
how much not tax but tip you need to put
on that bill. And that's very the financial oriented. So
anything related to finance. I realized that while I was
good at it, and I can come and look at
a position, an investment position if I want to. That
(17:23):
should be the bulk of my worries at home. The
bulk of my worries at home should be that we're happy,
we're comfortable, we're taken care of. So I really have
been focusing more on that and less on finance and
all the what we would call and vice versa. He's
been ensuring that we have a good financial advisor, that
(17:46):
we trust him, that all of these things that are
going to make me feel secure, because I realize that
as a woman, I needed to have that safe place.
But security comes in very many different forms. It's not
just security. It's financial security, it's physical security. So it's
(18:07):
safety about everything in your life. So the more safe,
the more grounded you are as a woman, that I think,
the more happy you are.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
I think so, so security can come in the form
of letting go right, which sounds counterintuitive, but this is
something we've talked about multiple times on the podcast because
I've often referenced how being a single mother for a
very long time, right where I was just this one
person household taking care of this little child and was responsible.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
For all of the things right.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
So then when I married my husband, it's been this
new idea of having to let go of certain things.
And just even though I see it from this lens.
Speaker 6 (18:53):
Of oh no, what's he doing, he's not doing it right,
that I have to just let him do it right.
I have to let it go so that he feels
powerful right and he feels this sense of Okay, there's
certain things around the house that I'm responsible to take
care of.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
And then I don't have to make all the decisions.
Because here's what I found myself, what I found myself
doing was I'm sick of making all the decisions. I
don't want to make all the decisions. Come make the
decisions for me. And then when he would try, I'd
be like, well, that's not right, you know. And it
can be really really tricky. It can be really really
(19:32):
tricky for a female who has kind of always taken
the lead on all that decision making to let it go.
But that's what I mean, there's security in the letting go.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
So one of the things that I see in my
practice is we have what I call the passive husband
controlling woman dynamic, where you know, a woman kind of
they get married, and the woman's like, I want this
house and I want this car, and so the man's
like okay, and he's just the yes man, and he
gets her the house and he gets her the car,
and she's like, I want this many kids. I want
this many babies, and he's like, okay, we'll have this
(20:05):
many babies. And then she's like, I want to decorate
the house in this way and I want this furniture.
And so he's like okay, you know, and he provides
all these things and he's just this yes man. But
then over time, because he's provided it financially, he expects
her to just manage it all because she's always done
the managing of making those big decisions about life.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
And then what.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
Happens is she gets extremely resentful. Yes, she decided to
have all of these big things that require a lot
of management. But then when she looks to her husband
and he's sitting back on the couch just going to
work and coming home, and he's like, well, why are
you upset? I helped you buy all of these things,
and I agreed to all of these kids. And she's like,
(20:49):
but no, you're supposed to jump in and sort of.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
Be fifty to fifty.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Well, you know, at the same time, you chose this life,
and you chose this fate expectation that he had that
you were also going to then manage it all is
not ending up being fulfilled. And she's very, very resentful.
And then she's very dominant and controlling in other aspects
of their relationship as well. And then he is completely
(21:15):
in this passive, non masculine archetype and she's in this
very dominant masculine archetype. And although she got quote everything
she wanted, managing it and making all of these decisions
in life on how to run this ship is exhausting
to her. And so that is exactly what I think
happened in my first marriage for sure, and I see
(21:38):
it constantly in clients.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
So how can couples go, you.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Know, for people who are getting ready to get married
or are entering a long term relationship where they are
going to decide to move in together kind of up
the empty and the commitment. How would you suggest couples
can kind of work this out in terms of managing
responsibility of the house and managing their work and allowing
(22:04):
that leadership role from the man to come about while
also feeling like he has the ability to give some
of what his wife is wanting to her in these
big aspects of life.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, I think the best way to describe it is
to really look at the female archetype, what is it about?
And then, as a if you're identifying as a woman,
to be looking at what these characteristics are. And I
have a huge list in my book about what it
(22:37):
means to be in the feminine archetype. And once you
look at that, you think which part of this can
I actually authentically embody. You don't want to be looking
at that list and thinking, oh, I would never do that,
and blah blah blah. Then you don't try it, or
if you try it, you say it doesn't fit me,
(22:58):
and that's okay, You're not. You don't have to fit
that archetype one hundred percent. But the more you can
fit in in your relationship, the more I think you're
going to feel that spark. And we can talk about
spark in the relationship. I do see this. In the
last decade between my spouse and I, we have been
(23:20):
building that spark even more than we had before, and
I'm seeing it every day. So I'm really trying to
be focusing on my feminine archetype, and on his side,
he's focusing on what are the male archetypes. And between
us at work, we can be whatever we are, but
between us when we're interacting with each other, we have
(23:42):
our backs. In that fashion, I tried to have his
back as a as being a woman in the relationship,
and he tries to have my back as being a
man in the relationship. And it seems very everyone is
trying to go in the middle, this inclusion construct, and
(24:03):
I think we're losing if we're all trying to go
in the middle.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
Absolutely, yeah, so I really agree with that. I think,
you know, you know, just from a faith perspective. I mean,
God made us uniquely different and gave us unique capabilities
and unique traits, and I think when we try to
blend it too much, we really become very unhappy.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
I know.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
For me, I just there are so many things, like
like Raina said, I don't like to make decisions in
my house, I have to make decisions all day long
for the company, and I don't want to make a
single day decision. I don't want to choose where we eat.
I don't care, just pick it. And do it and
go right. But I think sometimes men get so afraid
of not making the right choice that they rely too
(24:50):
much on their part female partners to make decisions because
they just want her to again be happy with the
decision instead of taking them mental load off of her
to have to make the decision in the first place.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
So share with us a.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Little bit of those characteristics of the female and male archetypes.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Yeah, so the female would be, as I said, the caring,
the person who's looking after the well being of the
people she loves, and it's about looking out for what
are their needs, Are they happy, the little cues that
(25:28):
might be given that they're sad, to be exploring why
they would be sad. So it's really an emotional Anything
that would be right brain would be more the exploration
of that archetype. If you think about the yang in
some cultures, you'll think yin yang. I don't know if
(25:50):
you're familiar with that, but absolutely anything that is yang
would be female archetypes. So it's darkness, the moon, like
it's all of that feeling. You know, we have our
female cycles. We go with the moon. So like you
can think about that anything that is associated with the
change of moods and how you adapt to that, and
(26:13):
the flow and softness and all of these aspects are important,
and then it goes beyond that. It's almost the benevolence
in life, and how do we actually help the world
and how do we make the world of bet or place.
And these are deep thinking that both genders can do.
But we're really suited for that kind of work because
(26:37):
we are suited to look around and feel. And as
I said, if I did twenty days of meditation, I
started feeling too much from the job that I was in.
But it's really about that. It's about finding the happiness
and making sure that all the people mental health are
people in your life, are taken care of at home.
(27:00):
And the male archetype is about assuring that they come
in and they do safe. They create a safe environment,
They create a good environment, healthy environment for everyone to thrive,
and they will be making decisions. But if they make decisions,
usually we need to feel like we're heard, because if
(27:23):
we don't feel we're heard, we don't feel secure. So
the comment that you made earlier about someone not feeling
comfortable about letting the spouse go and try to control
the relationship. Well, that person needs to learn how to
let go and be in their soft side. But vice versa.
The spouse, whoever that spouse was, needs to figure out
(27:46):
how he can make sure that she's comfortable with her environment,
that she has the right house to be secure and
all of these things, and that it meets her needs.
So there's that protectiveness the defender. There's all these archetypes
(28:07):
that are attributable to more the male archetype. So I
would say the top two are assuring safety of the family,
assuring the well being of the family from a everything
is set up and they have the right environment, Lots
of the male archetype resonance, and then the female archetype
(28:28):
residence is more about all the feelings, the mental health
and all that. As I said, you need to be
authentic about it. So for me as a you know,
I'm probably on the spectrum, probably the furthest on the
male archetype in my work that you can imagine it.
And I still found a zillion things that I could
(28:49):
authentically embody in this women archetype. No problem because I'm
a woman. I identify as a woman, so it's no
problem I could find. So as you don't need to
be the most I think female oriented archetype in your
day to day work to be a female archetype at
home and vice versa. The male doesn't need to be
(29:12):
could be a male nurse taking care of a person
every day and being really focused on the well being
at work. But then when they come at home, they
need to find a way that they can come into
their male archetype with their significant other if they want
to have that polarity, smart to consue and grow.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Yeah, and I really, you know, that really makes me
think about how in my practice when I have you know,
more males are dismissive avoidant than females. I would say
about eighty five percent of dismissive avoidance or men.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
And they don't know how to.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
Pick up on cues from their partner and meet their
partner's needs very well. They're very self directed, self focused.
It can come across as selfish. And so when I'm
working with these individuals and like, well, I just don't
know how to meet my wife's needs. One of the
things that I tell them is you have data on
her every single day. You can collect data on your
(30:09):
wife by living with her and noticing what she likes,
what she doesn't like, what stresses her out, what makes
her feel comfortable. And they have these sort of proverbial
blinders on, and I try to teach them how to
take those blinders off and collect that data. So they're
afraid to make decisions because they don't want to make
(30:30):
the wrong decisions. And they're like, well, I don't know
what to do. Yes, you do, because the data is
right there living with you. All you have to do
is turn your attention to them. And you're going to
have to be intentional about turning your intention to your
wife and collecting this data. It's things like noticing what
kind of coffee she likes and how she takes her
(30:50):
coffee in the morning. It's things like what is her
morning routine, what does her bedtime routine look like? I mean,
when my husband was going Christmas shopping for me, one
of the things that he did was he looked through
my products and took notice a few months before Christmas
of the things that I used regularly and that I
would like, and he made those things stocking stuffers. And
(31:11):
I thought, what a beautiful thing to do, because he
had that intention of collecting the data right on me.
And so for men out there who are maybe our
male listeners or or females who want afford this podcast
to their husbands, you have the data she lives with you, right,
And so it's about tuning in your attention and giving
(31:33):
that attunement to your spouse and noticing the things that
help them to thrive and make them feel safe and
make them feel comfortable. And all you have to do
is look around, and then you won't feel like you're
left guessing, right. And then a lot of men who
are with dismissive avoidant women, they really struggle because their
(31:56):
female partners have so much of the mask an archetype
and so much of those male oriented traits where they
aren't in touch with their own emotions. And if you're
suppressing your own emotions, you can't attune to others' emotions
very well. That becomes very uncomfortable and very overwhelming. And
so I think it's important for females with the dismissive
(32:19):
avoidant attachment to try to look at those characteristics and see, again,
like you said, which ones can you authentically embody right?
And I think that that really would be important for
women who have more avoidant attachment even fearful avoidant women
who maybe lean more to that avoidant side of their
attachment really trying to embody the things that they can
(32:43):
embody authentically. And I love that you used that word
because authenticity is so regulating to the human nervous system,
and you really hit the nail on the head where
if you can't feel like you can embody it authentically,
it's not going to work. That's going to justs regulate
you more. That's going to cause more tension inside of
your relationship. And so I love that you said, we
don't have to have all of the characteristics, but if
(33:04):
we can look at them and pick and choose which
ones feel good and authentic to us, then that's going
to make us more successful.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
And another thing that you've hit on that hits home
for me is reassurance.
Speaker 6 (33:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Reassurance from my partner is really what makes me feel
safe because in those moments where I want to be
in control and I don't realize that I need to
relinquish it, sometimes just having him, you know, kind of
grab me by the shoulders and say you don't need
to do this, let me take the lead.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
And there's something there's really something sexy and beautiful about that,
because it automatically just those small that small sentence allows
me to say okay, and then he feels powerful, and
then I can embody my feminine energy.
Speaker 5 (33:51):
Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
And I think this he can even happen in non
traditional households. I mean, I would consider my house a
non traditional household. My husband does have a very nice
military retirement, and he absolutely insists that that pays our bills,
and so I allow that to happen. But most things
that are fun or extra I take care of, right,
and then long term investments and big purchases. You know,
(34:16):
I'm very very blessed financially with my business that you know,
I'm happy to have. But he still feels like he's
the provider of our big bills and our major bills
that run our household. But in the same sense, he's
also the cook. I mean, he cooks. He he is
very very much in charge of our kids' activities and
running them to activities and all of those things which
(34:38):
would traditionally be more of a female role, right, preparing
meals and running kids around. But he's a really he's
really really great at planning all of that and taking
care of all of those things and making sure that
our kids are where they are supposed to be and
have what they need. And then when I come in
at the end of the day, I can be just
solely focused on their emotional well being. I can spend
(35:00):
time with my older daughter in her room, you know,
painting our fingernails, or we can you know, my younger daughter,
we can play a game or put on do our
hair together, or whatever she wants to do. And I
get to just focus on the emotional bonding with our kids,
where he gets to focus on more of the planning
and logistical aspects of our household. And maybe you're pointing
(35:22):
out to me now that that's why things work so
well between us, because I am coming in at the
end of the day and the planning pieces and the
logistical pieces and the solution oriented pieces are there, and
I don't have to make the decisions in our family
about who goes where and does each kid have what
they need. We have four kids between us, and I
(35:43):
can just focus on making sure that their hearts are okay.
And as an attachment scientist, emotional attuonment is everything right.
It is the hallmark of creating securely attached kids and
I get to focus my energy on doing that, and
I'm good at that and I can thrive at that,
and that makes me feel really good. But at the
(36:03):
same time, our kids feel great if dad picks them up.
They love dad and they love, you know, spending time
with their dad and having him take that role and
our kids being able to grow up knowing that both
of their parents were there for them. And of course
I don't know if you know my story, but my
kids are being adopted by my husband because their dad
(36:24):
passed away, and so he is really stepping into the
role of their their legal father, and for them to
get that experience of having a very involved father is
one that I think previous generations didn't get to experience.
But he still gets to stay in that masculine energy
of more planning and logistics and solutions and who has
what and who has what coming up? And then I
(36:45):
can take that off of my shoulders.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
And I think that's where the shift in perspective has
to start, is because like you talk about, you know,
he cooks, and like cooking can still be very masculine,
right because I know, for Valentine's Day, my husband cooked
me a meal, and it was It was the best
gift he could have given me.
Speaker 5 (37:01):
Oh that's really beautiful. That's an amazing cook.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
It was the best gift he could have given me
because it allowed me again to not like cooking a meal.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Is a big it's hard.
Speaker 5 (37:11):
It's hard, there's.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Lots of decisions that go with it.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
And so the shift in roles has to be considered
right where like you just described, Donald's still living in
his masculine even though he's doing maybe roles like cooking
or running the kids, but yet logistically he's living in
that masculine role. Yes, And so I think that the
(37:35):
perspective shift has to happen too in order to really
zone in and sink into what is really happening in households.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Mm hmm. Absolutely. And my spouse and I that's how
he got to start dating me because he cooked me
an awesome meal. So I think.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
Men that cook it is the sexiest.
Speaker 4 (37:55):
Thing in my opinion, And that is something that really
made me fall hard for my husband because he wooed
me with some cooking at the beginning of our relationship
and I had cooked. You know, my first husband never cooked,
never cooked anything. And then would complain about what I
would cook and only kind of wanted to eat fast
food and eat junk food, and I wanted to cook
healthy meals. And we struggled with that conflict. But I
think not having to cook is amazing. Yeah, I don't
(38:19):
want to cook, but you know, a lot of women
do enjoy it. I particularly do not enjoy it, And
so I'm glad that we have I have somebody that
does love that and really enjoys it, but he gets
to remain in, like you said, in that masculine energy,
and I think that you need a supportive partner like that.
(38:40):
I could not run this business if I did not
have a supportive partner who was keeping track of the
kids' schedules and keeping track of the meals and cooking meals.
Speaker 5 (38:50):
There's just no way.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
There's no way that I could do this and be
as successful as I have been without that. And I
think a lot of men, a lot of men do
ask him like, are you okay that your wife makes
all this money?
Speaker 5 (39:03):
And he's like, I love it, man, I love absolutely.
I'm proud of her.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
I love it, and I love getting to be at
home and to spend more time with my children. He's
always his biggest life goal was to be a father,
and he gets to be a very integrated father. He
gets very very involved father. And there's beauty in that.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah, And I know, Josie, now it seems like you
So do you and your spice spouse both have I mean,
does he have a high up career as well.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Yeah, he's an engineer as well.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
So tell us just a little bit for our listeners
how you manage sort of that that dual income household
then and where both both people are pushing hard at
work and then you have to come by a situation too. Yeah,
that's that's rain a situation. And I think about my brother.
My brother is a his wife is a very very
successful executive, very very high up in a major company
(39:53):
in Chicago that is an international company. They both do
a lot of international travel and they are both killing
it in their careers. And so tell us a little
bit about that type of environment and how you navigate that.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Okay, So my spouse and I have I would say
a fifty to fifty split between all the home. It's
a mental task that would come in and we try
to navigate it in a way that we do the
things we like the best and similar you were talking
about strategies around scheduling. I'm not good at scheduling. I
(40:31):
can't schedule for the life of me. So my spouse
is excellent at scheduling. He's in mega projects and that's
his job so much easier for him, and as a result,
at home, he takes a lot of the mental load
as a result, because he is the one kind of
(40:52):
looking at making sure that we're all in the right
place at the right time. On my side, I think
it's really about this government. What are the things that
we could do to support each other along the way
and aim to be at fifty percent at home. There's
a whole chapter in my book about that too. I
(41:13):
talked about the fact that I'm trying to deal with
the whole life architecture because I do think we won't
be successful if we don't have the right support network
to be there for us. And that support network starts
with your spouse if you have one, and so at home,
try to figure out a way that you can split
fifty to fifty and make it more and more like
(41:38):
a really even split, because if you don't get to
that balance at home, it's going to be impossible for
you to get to that balance at the officer at work,
and as a result, you will drop out, you will
ramp off. I've seen so many people ramp off between
twenty five and forty five, which is the thick of
(41:58):
things when it comes to kids and logistics and all that.
And I think the only way you can do it
is by trying to figure out a split that is
fifty to fifty at home and fifty to fifty at work.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
How would you say you guys emotionally connect now? Are
you guys intentional about like date nights and making a point? Yeah,
because I know that that's what my spouse and I
have to do. We have to be extremely intentional about
because he is a police officer who works night shift,
and so our our schedules could not be more opposite.
(42:35):
And you know, I'm working during the day, he's working.
He's sleeping during the day. I'm working, you know, and
so it's like we're just two ships at sea right
a lot of the times. And so in order to
emotionally connect, the only way to do that is to
be extremely intentional.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
Absolutely one percent. And we do have date night and
the kids we are kids are teenagers. Now they know
that we are number one for each other. I'm number
one for my spouse and he's number one for me.
The kids are obviously close seconds, but the kids are
(43:15):
well aware that the relationship that we nurture is the
most important part of our household. And without it, you know,
they wouldn't be able to do the work. Like it's
heart wrenching when you have couples splitting up with kids.
It's difficult. So how do we circumvent that? While I
(43:35):
think it's through deep understanding of each other, and it
comes from understanding yourself. And that's why I was talking
about the feminine archetype being something I discovered, and I'm
so happy I discovered it in my second relationship because
now you know, I'm able to figure out how we
can nurture it. And similarly, I think my spouse needs
to do the same. And you do need to come
(43:58):
to an agreement where we split the work in a
way that is fifty to fifty, even if it's not equitable.
Even if it's not equitable because at work, you, as
most women, will be earning and I have it here
in the eighty four cents.
Speaker 5 (44:15):
On the dollar still an issue.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
Yeah, So when you look at eighty four cents on
the dollar for a man, when you have to make
the tough decision who's going to ramp off their career.
Usually it's the eighty four cents on the dollar that
will ramp it off, not the dollar. But then we
lose this human capital. People have gone to school, did PhDs,
(44:40):
and they'll ramp off because they can't figure out a
way to manage it all. So really my advice is
figure out a way that you can do that with
your spouse, even if it's not equitable. You know.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
Yeah, that's actually an intervention that I give a lot
of my clients who really struggle with, you know, feeling
like it's fair at home in terms of you know,
the household duties. I say, make a list of every
household duty that you have, like, be very comprehensive, and
then what you're gonna do is you're gonna split it
up as equally as you can and try to take
(45:16):
the tasks that don't bother you or that you hate
the least, right and then but the hard part is
of the intervention is you have to completely let go,
Like if you're in charge of dishes, and the dishes
pile up. I tell the other person, do not go
in there and do the dishes. It will become very
obvious who's slacking off and who's not holding up their
(45:39):
end of the deal. Put the dishes next to the sink.
I know it will kill you. I know, the type
A and you will want to just sit down and
be like, well, he didn't do it. I'm going to
go ahead and do those dishes. Nope, don't do them,
you know, place the plates on until the plates start overflowing.
And then he has to look straight at those dishes
and take full accountability that those were his. And you know,
(46:02):
I'm the one as the coach telling you not to
touch them, and you're just following my instructions. He's gonna
sit there and do it. And it actually works really
really well.
Speaker 5 (46:11):
You know.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
So if you're the one in charge of, you know,
the kids, making sure their teeth are brushed and they
come home with cavities, we know who dropped the ball, right,
and so it prevents the blame shifting and the finger
pointing and the overall stress. But you have to get
to that point of being able to let go of control.
And I tell this, especially for women. You know what,
(46:32):
he might not do it how you like it. He
might not make the bed the way you love it
to be made. Don't criticize him, don't go behind him
and redo it. Let just the bed be made that way.
Maybe on the weekends you tidy it up a little bit,
or you add some extra pillows, or you do something
makes you feel a little bit better. But you know,
especially I know for men, that if you go and
you criticize the way they do it, they're going to
(46:54):
stop doing it because they feel like it's not worth it, right,
And so part of relinquishing control and moving back into
that female archetype is going to be accepting that somebody
might not do something the way that you want it done,
or they might not do it as timely as you
want it done, and you need to be able to
control yourself and allow them the accountability of seeing the
(47:17):
dishes pile up.
Speaker 5 (47:18):
For example, Yeah, yeah, let.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
Go exactly, It's exactly what you need to do is
not criticize, but find ways that you say, hey, listen,
I see the kids that have cavities now, and it
was on your list. Let's figure out a way a
path forward. Obviously what we had plan is not working.
So I think it's and conversation absolutely something as falling
(47:43):
as like okay, and what can we do to help
to do something different?
Speaker 7 (47:48):
Right?
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Is that we shift this to make it work.
Speaker 4 (47:50):
And that's a really non critical way to communicate that, right,
What does it look like? How can we work together
to move forward or how can we work together to
make this a better experience for everybody involved instead of
you know you this was your job and you.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Failed, right shaming. Shaming is not a loud right.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
Which a lot of people just do not know how
to communicate noncritically, which is something that I teach in
my hybrid group. How do you approach these things with
your partner and coming in with you know, I really
want to have a conversation about this and how we
can maybe be more efficient or more effective, how we
can work together with you know on this and coming
in with this sort of like collaborative mindset versus pointing
(48:30):
out the ways in which someone has potentially failed and
can can really trigger you know, the wounding that other
people carry.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
Well, Jessie, I want to I just want to make
sure is there anything else you know, where can we
find you. Where can people find your book? I mean
that's the most important thing.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I think. I want to read your book.
Speaker 5 (48:49):
I want to read your book for sure.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
So tell our listeners where they can find you and
where they can find your book.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Yeah, so they can go to www. Dots and yet
there's dot com so you can find me there. And
the book is on Amazon, so you can go on
Amazon and order your copy within one or two days.
We're going to have it at home, and I do
have a table in it. We're highlighting all the female
(49:17):
and male archetypes, what works well at home, but also
what works well in a work environment, because that's something
I learned as well. It could be a whole other
podcast is how you actually behave in a male dominated
environment and still succeed. But really this part, I'm really
happy and super thrilled that we had this conversation this morning,
(49:39):
because I think it's very important for anyone trying me
to a career and have a happy, healthy relationship with responsors.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
Yeah, and I mean, it's the world we live in today, right, we.
Speaker 4 (49:52):
Have a lot of dual income households. It's it is
just the world we live in nowadays.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Yeah, So I agree that it's very important and it
touches on you know, both our male and female listeners,
which you know we are very passionate about. So obviously,
if you guys are watching right now, thank you, thank
you so much for listening. Please go pick up Josie's
book US and Yet and yet and yet and Please.
While you're there on Amazon online, go check out doctor
(50:20):
Hensley at the lovedoc dot com.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
Check out all of her services there, her.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Hybrid group coaching program, all of her courses Coach Elizabeth.
We also have some resources on the on the website
and on your Amazon link.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Yep, we'll be sure to add your book.
Speaker 4 (50:37):
To Yeah, we will add your book to our Amazon store. Yeah,
that's in my link tree, So anybody that accesses my
social media can go to my Amazon store. In books
that I find fascinating, helpful in the relationship space and
in personal growth and development, I put there.
Speaker 5 (50:52):
So we will add that there as well.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Yes, and of course we want to mention our affiliate,
Armora Colosstrum. Thank you Armora so much.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
We love you. Obviously.
Speaker 7 (51:01):
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Speaker 2 (51:11):
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Speaker 1 (51:55):
And of course if you're a loyal listener of this podcast,
you get twenty seven percent all of doctor Hensley services.
So by using love doc twenty seven obviously we really
like that code love texts. But so you can go
visit doctor Hinsley at the lovedoc dot com. Please check
out Josie's book.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Thank you so much, thank you.
Speaker 4 (52:14):
For being on today, Josie. We really appreciate your expertise.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
Yes, it's been very insightful, very insightful, so thank you
and to all of our listeners. Until next time, peace,
love and perspective.
Welcome to the Love Dog Podcast. I'm your co host
Raina Butcher here with our host, doctor Sarah Hensley. Hello, Hello, Hello,
And we also have special guests today Josie Trimblay.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hi, Josie, Hi Hillo.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
So Josie is the author of the book Us and
Yet yet correct? Yes, yes and background yeah so, And
we'll put a link and everything to your book, of
course in our description. But today episode forty nine, we
want to talk, of course about your book, and we
want to talk about the balance between work and relationships,
(00:49):
which I know a lot of your book covers. So
first and foremost, just tell us a little bit about
yourself and tell us a little bit about your book.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Okay, Well, I'm a mechanical engineer by trade. So I
had a long career in mechanical engineering and I went
on to deal with international assignments in Asia, in North America.
I lived in the US for a while. I'm based
out of Canada right now. I do mechanical engineering work,
(01:17):
but also all sorts of engineering. A couple of years ago,
I came across this document that said we were leaving
on the table one hundred and seventy two trillion dollars
worldwide by not harnesting the power of women at work.
And I thought, okay. I met with my CEO, a
first CEO and career and he's ninety two now, and
(01:41):
he said to me, he says every time I come
home and my spouse. I talked to my spouse about
something that I have trouble with. She says, Jim, what
are you going to do about it? And I thought, okay.
Two years ago, see one hundred and seventy two trillion
dollars of money and being left on the table. I
thought I needed to do something. So I started writing
(02:04):
Coach and I ended up writing the book. The book
was really about the whole life architecture. I thought, if
we want to succeed as women in business, it's not
possible for us to be alone. We need to figure
out our support network. Whether it's having awesome support at
home and they can do all the things that you
(02:25):
would not normally have the time to do if you're
on a business trip or things like that, and it's
also having the support mentally, so you come home and
you need to have a way to vent, and you
need to have a way to explore the stress that
exists within like a pretty demanding career. So my thought was,
(02:46):
we need to look at the whole life architecture, and
it starts also with having a nice relationship with a spouse.
If you have the chance of having a spouse, and
they're a key pillar in that arsenal if you will
of life architecture to support your life. So I explore that,
and then your podcast really explore many things that I
(03:09):
thought would be very interesting to mix in the conversation.
I'm really enthusiastic about hearing what doctor Hansley is going
to tell us about that attachment that you might have
for a great career, but at the same time navigating
that tug of war with the demand of home, life,
(03:33):
right and family.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
And so I know I already know what Doc's going
to say.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I've been here long enough, I know, But you know,
chime in here, Doc with you know what you think,
what you see mostly in your practice in terms of
the attachment styles, whether that be female or male, because
we know that attachment styles don't really aren't gender specific,
but they really struggle with that work and family balance.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
Yes, it would be for sure the dismissive avoidant. They
tend to be workaholics. If they're not workaholics, they're hobbyholics.
But I would say more commonly they are workaholics because
work is a place where they can feel successful where
sort of they struggle in their romantic relationships feeling defective,
feeling like they can't meet other people's needs and meet
(04:21):
other people's expectations.
Speaker 5 (04:22):
But they usually tend.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
To really thrive in a fast paced or very complex
work environment, and it helps them stay distracted from their feelings,
It helps them stay suppressed from their emotions concerning their relationship,
and they tend to be high functioning in work and
feel very highly competent at work, where the opposite is
true inside of their relationships.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
So I'm interested to.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
Know a little bit more about how you feel like
people's romantic relationships can really be impacted by being very
successful at work, and give us a little bit of
a gener or break down too. What are the things
that are unique to women and how does this affect
men as well?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Yeah, I like the fact that you say how it
affects men too, because we have our spouse have experienced
similar things. They go to work. If you are a
dual career couple, you go to work and you come
home and they have their struggles as well. And when
you're not super mentally fit to come home and support
(05:27):
that partner, it affects both both sides. And you wanted
to explore. I have an extract from my book. I'm
going to just read it. I have it right in
front of me. I pulled it out because I thought
it was very relevant to exactly what you're talking about.
It says the price of success for women at work
can be high. The average female manager is less likely
(05:50):
to be married and more likely to be childless than
her male counterpartner. Half of all women managers are childless,
and they are twice as likely to have been divorced
or separated as their male colleagues. The majority of male
managers' wives were there to be supportive, while the majority
(06:12):
of female managers were in a dual earner relationship, if
they were in one at all. And so that I know,
my heart so sad when I read this, you know,
and I'm gonna have a tear. But when you said
suppress feeling, it really resonated for me, doctor Hansley, because
(06:38):
I remember taking a thirty day challenge for what do
you call it? To meditation in the morning. So it
was like thirty day meditation, and it was one that
you were supposed to feel. All you could feel, you
could hear, all you could hear, you could see, all
you could see. It was like really kind of elevating
(06:58):
your sensory emotion. And because I've been in a high
intensity work environment, I've worked coping mechanisms over the years
where I even kill deal with stress, you know, and
I don't. I tried to be supportive for the team
(07:19):
so they don't see their boss being like all excited.
But at the same time, what it does to my
own body is I think I'm suppressing a lot of
the emotions that I should be feeling. And this thirty
day meditation after twenty I went into work the afternoon
(07:42):
and I literally had a panic attack at work. I was, Oh,
my god, this is making me feel too much of
my own emotion. And it almost hit me like a
brick because Wow, how much emotion every day am I suppressing.
(08:04):
I'm in this high intensity role, and so it was
a big red relation. But where I was going with
this is like, it's so important that when you come
home you have almost like a relief and a way
and a partner to be there to communicate with you.
And it becomes more and more difficult when in your
dual career and you didn't have that space during the
(08:25):
day to be yourself and to explore your own emotion.
It makes it more difficult to sustain a long term
partner relationship at home. And I'm on my second relationship.
I think you need to find the right characteristics for
And it sounds like you two have phenomenal partners as well.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
I heard that, but we're sort of both on our
second round too. You know, I was never married before.
But you know, something that I just thought of while
you were talking, Josie, is something that Doc talks about
a lot, which is, you know, self regulation and coregulation.
And I think it's important to touch on just based
on what you said, because you know, self regulation can
be really, really hard, but if you're able to find
(09:10):
somebody who you can co regulate with, for those people
who maybe suppress a lot or are in high stress,
high intensity, you know, high up roles with their career,
it's really nice to have that person to come home
to that can help you, like you said, soften and
(09:30):
that really nice soft place to fall, and.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I know that it's not always possible.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
So Doc, I want you to hit on, you know,
just the importance of self regulation and coregulation. And you know,
obviously both are equally as important.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Absolutely, so we need both self regulation and coregulation to
be successful in our romantic relationships. So we need to
be able to bring ourselves into a sense of safety,
and I always believe that has to happen first before
we can co regulate, because to regulated people can't co regulate,
We're just going to get more dysregulated. Right if our
(10:05):
partner's also disregulated, we need at least one person to
be the oak tree that can ground the pair. But
we also need to have to have co regulation where
we can sort of sinc in with our partner and
we can allow them to sue us and allow them
to support us and allow them to help. You know,
(10:26):
just relax our nervous system to some degree, because when
you're in a high stress work environment, your nervous system
is probably not operating in a very regulated state. You're
facing a lot of problems, a lot of challenges, And
the words I like to use is just putting out
a lot of fires. We do that you know, being
a high level CEO, you're putting out a lot of fires,
(10:47):
and you need to be able to switch into energy
where someone else can take the lead. And I'm really
lucky that I have a husband who is now a
stay at home dad. He's a retired military veteran, and
I had a successful contracting business, but as my business grew,
it just didn't make sense anymore to have someone that
(11:08):
was a stranger kind of raising our kids and eating
door dash all the time. That was what we were
doing and it wasn't working, and if we looked at
the money, it just made more sense for him to
lay down his business. And it's really wonderful to see
him take that role of dad really seriously and to
be there for our kids. But he's also a support
for me when I walk out of my office at
(11:30):
the end of the day and I just want to
kind of collapse on the floor, where he can be like, well,
dinner's taken care of, the kids are taking care of.
Everything around here is taking care of and you can
just kind of breathe and let go. I also had
it the opposite way in my first marriage. We were
a dual income house. I was working very, very hard.
In fact, I was teaching lots of adjunct classes on
(11:52):
top of my full teaching load to make extra money,
and then I had a husband that did virtually nothing
to help me with the house or the kids. So
I do think that it really negatively affected my mental
health and my relationship because I had zero work life
balance and so, but I also, on the flip side
of that, want to acknowledge that for men, it can
(12:13):
be hard to have a woman who is very successful
in their career in their lives because it can tap
into some of their insecurities about needing to be the
provider and needing to be the one who's making more
money and in being more successful in their work life.
(12:33):
So talk to us a little bit about that, specifically
about how if you want to be a very successful woman,
how can you help support your partner in being in
being supportive of you as the one who is quote
unquote more successful in the relationship workwise.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Wow, So I love where you're going with this. My
chapter two of the book is about finding power in
the archetypes.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
And yeah, tell us more about the archetype. I would
like to learn more about this.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
So I looked at all sorts of historical adage, historical knowledge,
and in most cultures, they will be highlighting the two archetypes,
being one feminine and one masculine archetype, and they'll put
different stories around these archetypes. And our children are going
(13:28):
to grow and listen or listen to stories that are
actually describing to us what these archetypes are. And because
I'm a woman stem I was one women out of
twelve at the table most of my career, so I'm
in a highly male dominated environment. It changed a little
(13:51):
bit towards the end of my career as a mechanical
engineer directly currently I'm doing consultancy, so that's why I'm
kind of describing it a little bit in the past.
It's a couple of years ago that I ended my
mechanical engineering per se career, and this part of me
(14:11):
was discovered that I needed to be with my partner,
someone that I wasn't necessarily at home and my second
maybe ten years ago, we went on this Tony Robbins,
I don't know if you know, he's quite yeah, yeah,
(14:33):
yeah yeah. So we went my spouse and I went
to this date with Destiny, and in date with Destiny,
he brings his spouse and they share about this construct
of feminine and masculine energy and how important it is
for you to cultivate your feminine energy in your relationship.
(14:54):
And I was, like, cultivate my feminine energy in my relationship.
So they were describing to me like, I need to
let my spouse take care of all the financial stuff,
and I need to let my spouse take care of
all these things that I need to be soft and
I need to be And at the time it didn't
resonate that much. And then I realize it was a
(15:15):
golden nugget. It was the golden nugget I did not
have when I was in my twenties, and I did
not succeed in my first marriage. I guess so. But really,
my second spouse and I are looking at the world
very differently since we went to date with Destiny. We're
interacting with each other very differently. I'm the kind of
(15:37):
person who managed large capital investments. I managed large portfolios
all my life, multi billion dollar p and L. And
I looked at this and I thought, I'm very good
at finance. I'm very good at all these aspects that
are very male dominated, and good at fixing your heating
(15:58):
system and your house. I'm shooting my hitting system in
my house. So I'm good at all these things where
you find a lot of gentlemen normally, So how do
I actually succeed in a relationship while being this full
fledged mechanical engineer at work? And it was a challenge
(16:18):
and it didn't rub me the right way. When Tony
Robbins was telling me, you need to actually let go
of finance, and I was like, this doesn't work. But
what he was telling us was that I needed to
be in my feminine archetype when I'm at home, and
my spouse needs to be in the masculine archetype when
(16:40):
he's at home and interacting between the two of us.
We started changing a few things. I started not paying
for the bill at the restaurant. It sounds like a
small stuff, it's significant. I could just continue to have,
you know, the rest of my beverage and sit back
and relax and be my soft side at home, and
(17:02):
he can take care of the bill and worry about
how much not tax but tip you need to put
on that bill. And that's very the financial oriented. So
anything related to finance. I realized that while I was
good at it, and I can come and look at
a position, an investment position if I want to. That
(17:23):
should be the bulk of my worries at home. The
bulk of my worries at home should be that we're happy,
we're comfortable, we're taken care of. So I really have
been focusing more on that and less on finance and
all the what we would call and vice versa. He's
been ensuring that we have a good financial advisor, that
(17:46):
we trust him, that all of these things that are
going to make me feel secure, because I realize that
as a woman, I needed to have that safe place.
But security comes in very many different forms. It's not
just security. It's financial security, it's physical security. So it's
(18:07):
safety about everything in your life. So the more safe,
the more grounded you are as a woman, that I think,
the more happy you are.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
I think so, so security can come in the form
of letting go right, which sounds counterintuitive, but this is
something we've talked about multiple times on the podcast because
I've often referenced how being a single mother for a
very long time, right where I was just this one
person household taking care of this little child and was responsible.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
For all of the things right.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
So then when I married my husband, it's been this
new idea of having to let go of certain things.
And just even though I see it from this lens.
Speaker 6 (18:53):
Of oh no, what's he doing, he's not doing it right,
that I have to just let him do it right.
I have to let it go so that he feels
powerful right and he feels this sense of Okay, there's
certain things around the house that I'm responsible to take
care of.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
And then I don't have to make all the decisions.
Because here's what I found myself, what I found myself
doing was I'm sick of making all the decisions. I
don't want to make all the decisions. Come make the
decisions for me. And then when he would try, I'd
be like, well, that's not right, you know. And it
can be really really tricky. It can be really really
(19:32):
tricky for a female who has kind of always taken
the lead on all that decision making to let it go.
But that's what I mean, there's security in the letting go.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
So one of the things that I see in my
practice is we have what I call the passive husband
controlling woman dynamic, where you know, a woman kind of
they get married, and the woman's like, I want this
house and I want this car, and so the man's
like okay, and he's just the yes man, and he
gets her the house and he gets her the car,
and she's like, I want this many kids. I want
this many babies, and he's like, okay, we'll have this
(20:05):
many babies. And then she's like, I want to decorate
the house in this way and I want this furniture.
And so he's like okay, you know, and he provides
all these things and he's just this yes man. But
then over time, because he's provided it financially, he expects
her to just manage it all because she's always done
the managing of making those big decisions about life.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
And then what.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
Happens is she gets extremely resentful. Yes, she decided to
have all of these big things that require a lot
of management. But then when she looks to her husband
and he's sitting back on the couch just going to
work and coming home, and he's like, well, why are
you upset? I helped you buy all of these things,
and I agreed to all of these kids. And she's like,
(20:49):
but no, you're supposed to jump in and sort of.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
Be fifty to fifty.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
Well, you know, at the same time, you chose this life,
and you chose this fate expectation that he had that
you were also going to then manage it all is
not ending up being fulfilled. And she's very, very resentful.
And then she's very dominant and controlling in other aspects
of their relationship as well. And then he is completely
(21:15):
in this passive, non masculine archetype and she's in this
very dominant masculine archetype. And although she got quote everything
she wanted, managing it and making all of these decisions
in life on how to run this ship is exhausting
to her. And so that is exactly what I think
happened in my first marriage for sure, and I see
(21:38):
it constantly in clients.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
So how can couples go, you.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Know, for people who are getting ready to get married
or are entering a long term relationship where they are
going to decide to move in together kind of up
the empty and the commitment. How would you suggest couples
can kind of work this out in terms of managing
responsibility of the house and managing their work and allowing
(22:04):
that leadership role from the man to come about while
also feeling like he has the ability to give some
of what his wife is wanting to her in these
big aspects of life.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, I think the best way to describe it is
to really look at the female archetype, what is it about?
And then, as a if you're identifying as a woman,
to be looking at what these characteristics are. And I
have a huge list in my book about what it
(22:37):
means to be in the feminine archetype. And once you
look at that, you think which part of this can
I actually authentically embody. You don't want to be looking
at that list and thinking, oh, I would never do that,
and blah blah blah. Then you don't try it, or
if you try it, you say it doesn't fit me,
(22:58):
and that's okay, You're not. You don't have to fit
that archetype one hundred percent. But the more you can
fit in in your relationship, the more I think you're
going to feel that spark. And we can talk about
spark in the relationship. I do see this. In the
last decade between my spouse and I, we have been
(23:20):
building that spark even more than we had before, and
I'm seeing it every day. So I'm really trying to
be focusing on my feminine archetype, and on his side,
he's focusing on what are the male archetypes. And between
us at work, we can be whatever we are, but
between us when we're interacting with each other, we have
(23:42):
our backs. In that fashion, I tried to have his
back as a as being a woman in the relationship,
and he tries to have my back as being a
man in the relationship. And it seems very everyone is
trying to go in the middle, this inclusion construct, and
(24:03):
I think we're losing if we're all trying to go
in the middle.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
Absolutely, yeah, so I really agree with that. I think,
you know, you know, just from a faith perspective. I mean,
God made us uniquely different and gave us unique capabilities
and unique traits, and I think when we try to
blend it too much, we really become very unhappy.
Speaker 5 (24:28):
I know.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
For me, I just there are so many things, like
like Raina said, I don't like to make decisions in
my house, I have to make decisions all day long
for the company, and I don't want to make a
single day decision. I don't want to choose where we eat.
I don't care, just pick it. And do it and
go right. But I think sometimes men get so afraid
of not making the right choice that they rely too
(24:50):
much on their part female partners to make decisions because
they just want her to again be happy with the
decision instead of taking them mental load off of her
to have to make the decision in the first place.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
So share with us a.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Little bit of those characteristics of the female and male archetypes.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
Yeah, so the female would be, as I said, the caring,
the person who's looking after the well being of the
people she loves, and it's about looking out for what
are their needs, Are they happy, the little cues that
(25:28):
might be given that they're sad, to be exploring why
they would be sad. So it's really an emotional Anything
that would be right brain would be more the exploration
of that archetype. If you think about the yang in
some cultures, you'll think yin yang. I don't know if
(25:50):
you're familiar with that, but absolutely anything that is yang
would be female archetypes. So it's darkness, the moon, like
it's all of that feeling. You know, we have our
female cycles. We go with the moon. So like you
can think about that anything that is associated with the
change of moods and how you adapt to that, and
(26:13):
the flow and softness and all of these aspects are important,
and then it goes beyond that. It's almost the benevolence
in life, and how do we actually help the world
and how do we make the world of bet or place.
And these are deep thinking that both genders can do.
But we're really suited for that kind of work because
(26:37):
we are suited to look around and feel. And as
I said, if I did twenty days of meditation, I
started feeling too much from the job that I was in.
But it's really about that. It's about finding the happiness
and making sure that all the people mental health are
people in your life, are taken care of at home.
(27:00):
And the male archetype is about assuring that they come
in and they do safe. They create a safe environment,
They create a good environment, healthy environment for everyone to thrive,
and they will be making decisions. But if they make decisions,
usually we need to feel like we're heard, because if
(27:23):
we don't feel we're heard, we don't feel secure. So
the comment that you made earlier about someone not feeling
comfortable about letting the spouse go and try to control
the relationship. Well, that person needs to learn how to
let go and be in their soft side. But vice versa.
The spouse, whoever that spouse was, needs to figure out
(27:46):
how he can make sure that she's comfortable with her environment,
that she has the right house to be secure and
all of these things, and that it meets her needs.
So there's that protectiveness the defender. There's all these archetypes
(28:07):
that are attributable to more the male archetype. So I
would say the top two are assuring safety of the family,
assuring the well being of the family from a everything
is set up and they have the right environment, Lots
of the male archetype resonance, and then the female archetype
(28:28):
residence is more about all the feelings, the mental health
and all that. As I said, you need to be
authentic about it. So for me as a you know,
I'm probably on the spectrum, probably the furthest on the
male archetype in my work that you can imagine it.
And I still found a zillion things that I could
(28:49):
authentically embody in this women archetype. No problem because I'm
a woman. I identify as a woman, so it's no
problem I could find. So as you don't need to
be the most I think female oriented archetype in your
day to day work to be a female archetype at
home and vice versa. The male doesn't need to be
(29:12):
could be a male nurse taking care of a person
every day and being really focused on the well being
at work. But then when they come at home, they
need to find a way that they can come into
their male archetype with their significant other if they want
to have that polarity, smart to consue and grow.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Yeah, and I really, you know, that really makes me
think about how in my practice when I have you know,
more males are dismissive avoidant than females. I would say
about eighty five percent of dismissive avoidance or men.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
And they don't know how to.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
Pick up on cues from their partner and meet their
partner's needs very well. They're very self directed, self focused.
It can come across as selfish. And so when I'm
working with these individuals and like, well, I just don't
know how to meet my wife's needs. One of the
things that I tell them is you have data on
her every single day. You can collect data on your
(30:09):
wife by living with her and noticing what she likes,
what she doesn't like, what stresses her out, what makes
her feel comfortable. And they have these sort of proverbial
blinders on, and I try to teach them how to
take those blinders off and collect that data. So they're
afraid to make decisions because they don't want to make
(30:30):
the wrong decisions. And they're like, well, I don't know
what to do. Yes, you do, because the data is
right there living with you. All you have to do
is turn your attention to them. And you're going to
have to be intentional about turning your intention to your
wife and collecting this data. It's things like noticing what
kind of coffee she likes and how she takes her
(30:50):
coffee in the morning. It's things like what is her
morning routine, what does her bedtime routine look like? I mean,
when my husband was going Christmas shopping for me, one
of the things that he did was he looked through
my products and took notice a few months before Christmas
of the things that I used regularly and that I
would like, and he made those things stocking stuffers. And
(31:11):
I thought, what a beautiful thing to do, because he
had that intention of collecting the data right on me.
And so for men out there who are maybe our
male listeners or or females who want afford this podcast
to their husbands, you have the data she lives with you, right,
And so it's about tuning in your attention and giving
(31:33):
that attunement to your spouse and noticing the things that
help them to thrive and make them feel safe and
make them feel comfortable. And all you have to do
is look around, and then you won't feel like you're
left guessing, right. And then a lot of men who
are with dismissive avoidant women, they really struggle because their
(31:56):
female partners have so much of the mask an archetype
and so much of those male oriented traits where they
aren't in touch with their own emotions. And if you're
suppressing your own emotions, you can't attune to others' emotions
very well. That becomes very uncomfortable and very overwhelming. And
so I think it's important for females with the dismissive
(32:19):
avoidant attachment to try to look at those characteristics and see, again,
like you said, which ones can you authentically embody right?
And I think that that really would be important for
women who have more avoidant attachment even fearful avoidant women
who maybe lean more to that avoidant side of their
attachment really trying to embody the things that they can
(32:43):
embody authentically. And I love that you used that word
because authenticity is so regulating to the human nervous system,
and you really hit the nail on the head where
if you can't feel like you can embody it authentically,
it's not going to work. That's going to justs regulate
you more. That's going to cause more tension inside of
your relationship. And so I love that you said, we
don't have to have all of the characteristics, but if
(33:04):
we can look at them and pick and choose which
ones feel good and authentic to us, then that's going
to make us more successful.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
And another thing that you've hit on that hits home
for me is reassurance.
Speaker 6 (33:14):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Reassurance from my partner is really what makes me feel
safe because in those moments where I want to be
in control and I don't realize that I need to
relinquish it, sometimes just having him, you know, kind of
grab me by the shoulders and say you don't need
to do this, let me take the lead.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
Right.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
And there's something there's really something sexy and beautiful about that,
because it automatically just those small that small sentence allows
me to say okay, and then he feels powerful, and
then I can embody my feminine energy.
Speaker 5 (33:51):
Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
And I think this he can even happen in non
traditional households. I mean, I would consider my house a
non traditional household. My husband does have a very nice
military retirement, and he absolutely insists that that pays our bills,
and so I allow that to happen. But most things
that are fun or extra I take care of, right,
and then long term investments and big purchases. You know,
(34:16):
I'm very very blessed financially with my business that you know,
I'm happy to have. But he still feels like he's
the provider of our big bills and our major bills
that run our household. But in the same sense, he's
also the cook. I mean, he cooks. He he is
very very much in charge of our kids' activities and
running them to activities and all of those things which
(34:38):
would traditionally be more of a female role, right, preparing
meals and running kids around. But he's a really he's
really really great at planning all of that and taking
care of all of those things and making sure that
our kids are where they are supposed to be and
have what they need. And then when I come in
at the end of the day, I can be just
solely focused on their emotional well being. I can spend
(35:00):
time with my older daughter in her room, you know,
painting our fingernails, or we can you know, my younger daughter,
we can play a game or put on do our
hair together, or whatever she wants to do. And I
get to just focus on the emotional bonding with our kids,
where he gets to focus on more of the planning
and logistical aspects of our household. And maybe you're pointing
(35:22):
out to me now that that's why things work so
well between us, because I am coming in at the
end of the day and the planning pieces and the
logistical pieces and the solution oriented pieces are there, and
I don't have to make the decisions in our family
about who goes where and does each kid have what
they need. We have four kids between us, and I
(35:43):
can just focus on making sure that their hearts are okay.
And as an attachment scientist, emotional attuonment is everything right.
It is the hallmark of creating securely attached kids and
I get to focus my energy on doing that, and
I'm good at that and I can thrive at that,
and that makes me feel really good. But at the
(36:03):
same time, our kids feel great if dad picks them up.
They love dad and they love, you know, spending time
with their dad and having him take that role and
our kids being able to grow up knowing that both
of their parents were there for them. And of course
I don't know if you know my story, but my
kids are being adopted by my husband because their dad
(36:24):
passed away, and so he is really stepping into the
role of their their legal father, and for them to
get that experience of having a very involved father is
one that I think previous generations didn't get to experience.
But he still gets to stay in that masculine energy
of more planning and logistics and solutions and who has
what and who has what coming up? And then I
(36:45):
can take that off of my shoulders.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
And I think that's where the shift in perspective has
to start, is because like you talk about, you know,
he cooks, and like cooking can still be very masculine,
right because I know, for Valentine's Day, my husband cooked
me a meal, and it was It was the best
gift he could have given me.
Speaker 5 (37:01):
Oh that's really beautiful. That's an amazing cook.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
It was the best gift he could have given me
because it allowed me again to not like cooking a meal.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Is a big it's hard.
Speaker 5 (37:11):
It's hard, there's.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Lots of decisions that go with it.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
And so the shift in roles has to be considered
right where like you just described, Donald's still living in
his masculine even though he's doing maybe roles like cooking
or running the kids, but yet logistically he's living in
that masculine role. Yes, And so I think that the
(37:35):
perspective shift has to happen too in order to really
zone in and sink into what is really happening in households.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Mm hmm. Absolutely. And my spouse and I that's how
he got to start dating me because he cooked me
an awesome meal. So I think.
Speaker 5 (37:53):
Men that cook it is the sexiest.
Speaker 4 (37:55):
Thing in my opinion, And that is something that really
made me fall hard for my husband because he wooed
me with some cooking at the beginning of our relationship
and I had cooked. You know, my first husband never cooked,
never cooked anything. And then would complain about what I
would cook and only kind of wanted to eat fast
food and eat junk food, and I wanted to cook
healthy meals. And we struggled with that conflict. But I
think not having to cook is amazing. Yeah, I don't
(38:19):
want to cook, but you know, a lot of women
do enjoy it. I particularly do not enjoy it, And
so I'm glad that we have I have somebody that
does love that and really enjoys it, but he gets
to remain in, like you said, in that masculine energy,
and I think that you need a supportive partner like that.
(38:40):
I could not run this business if I did not
have a supportive partner who was keeping track of the
kids' schedules and keeping track of the meals and cooking meals.
Speaker 5 (38:50):
There's just no way.
Speaker 4 (38:51):
There's no way that I could do this and be
as successful as I have been without that. And I
think a lot of men, a lot of men do
ask him like, are you okay that your wife makes
all this money?
Speaker 5 (39:03):
And he's like, I love it, man, I love absolutely.
I'm proud of her.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
I love it, and I love getting to be at
home and to spend more time with my children. He's
always his biggest life goal was to be a father,
and he gets to be a very integrated father. He
gets very very involved father. And there's beauty in that.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah, And I know, Josie, now it seems like you
So do you and your spice spouse both have I mean,
does he have a high up career as well.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
Yeah, he's an engineer as well.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
So tell us just a little bit for our listeners
how you manage sort of that that dual income household
then and where both both people are pushing hard at
work and then you have to come by a situation too. Yeah,
that's that's rain a situation. And I think about my brother.
My brother is a his wife is a very very
successful executive, very very high up in a major company
(39:53):
in Chicago that is an international company. They both do
a lot of international travel and they are both killing
it in their careers. And so tell us a little
bit about that type of environment and how you navigate that.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Okay, So my spouse and I have I would say
a fifty to fifty split between all the home. It's
a mental task that would come in and we try
to navigate it in a way that we do the
things we like the best and similar you were talking
about strategies around scheduling. I'm not good at scheduling. I
(40:31):
can't schedule for the life of me. So my spouse
is excellent at scheduling. He's in mega projects and that's
his job so much easier for him, and as a result,
at home, he takes a lot of the mental load
as a result, because he is the one kind of
(40:52):
looking at making sure that we're all in the right
place at the right time. On my side, I think
it's really about this government. What are the things that
we could do to support each other along the way
and aim to be at fifty percent at home. There's
a whole chapter in my book about that too. I
(41:13):
talked about the fact that I'm trying to deal with
the whole life architecture because I do think we won't
be successful if we don't have the right support network
to be there for us. And that support network starts
with your spouse if you have one, and so at home,
try to figure out a way that you can split
fifty to fifty and make it more and more like
(41:38):
a really even split, because if you don't get to
that balance at home, it's going to be impossible for
you to get to that balance at the officer at work,
and as a result, you will drop out, you will
ramp off. I've seen so many people ramp off between
twenty five and forty five, which is the thick of
(41:58):
things when it comes to kids and logistics and all that.
And I think the only way you can do it
is by trying to figure out a split that is
fifty to fifty at home and fifty to fifty at work.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
How would you say you guys emotionally connect now? Are
you guys intentional about like date nights and making a point? Yeah,
because I know that that's what my spouse and I
have to do. We have to be extremely intentional about
because he is a police officer who works night shift,
and so our our schedules could not be more opposite.
(42:35):
And you know, I'm working during the day, he's working.
He's sleeping during the day. I'm working, you know, and
so it's like we're just two ships at sea right
a lot of the times. And so in order to
emotionally connect, the only way to do that is to
be extremely intentional.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
Absolutely one percent. And we do have date night and
the kids we are kids are teenagers. Now they know
that we are number one for each other. I'm number
one for my spouse and he's number one for me.
The kids are obviously close seconds, but the kids are
(43:15):
well aware that the relationship that we nurture is the
most important part of our household. And without it, you know,
they wouldn't be able to do the work. Like it's
heart wrenching when you have couples splitting up with kids.
It's difficult. So how do we circumvent that? While I
(43:35):
think it's through deep understanding of each other, and it
comes from understanding yourself. And that's why I was talking
about the feminine archetype being something I discovered, and I'm
so happy I discovered it in my second relationship because
now you know, I'm able to figure out how we
can nurture it. And similarly, I think my spouse needs
to do the same. And you do need to come
(43:58):
to an agreement where we split the work in a
way that is fifty to fifty, even if it's not equitable.
Even if it's not equitable because at work, you, as
most women, will be earning and I have it here
in the eighty four cents.
Speaker 5 (44:15):
On the dollar still an issue.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
Yeah, So when you look at eighty four cents on
the dollar for a man, when you have to make
the tough decision who's going to ramp off their career.
Usually it's the eighty four cents on the dollar that
will ramp it off, not the dollar. But then we
lose this human capital. People have gone to school, did PhDs,
(44:40):
and they'll ramp off because they can't figure out a
way to manage it all. So really my advice is
figure out a way that you can do that with
your spouse, even if it's not equitable. You know.
Speaker 4 (44:54):
Yeah, that's actually an intervention that I give a lot
of my clients who really struggle with, you know, feeling
like it's fair at home in terms of you know,
the household duties. I say, make a list of every
household duty that you have, like, be very comprehensive, and
then what you're gonna do is you're gonna split it
up as equally as you can and try to take
(45:16):
the tasks that don't bother you or that you hate
the least, right and then but the hard part is
of the intervention is you have to completely let go,
Like if you're in charge of dishes, and the dishes
pile up. I tell the other person, do not go
in there and do the dishes. It will become very
obvious who's slacking off and who's not holding up their
(45:39):
end of the deal. Put the dishes next to the sink.
I know it will kill you. I know, the type
A and you will want to just sit down and
be like, well, he didn't do it. I'm going to
go ahead and do those dishes. Nope, don't do them,
you know, place the plates on until the plates start overflowing.
And then he has to look straight at those dishes
and take full accountability that those were his. And you know,
(46:02):
I'm the one as the coach telling you not to
touch them, and you're just following my instructions. He's gonna
sit there and do it. And it actually works really
really well.
Speaker 5 (46:11):
You know.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
So if you're the one in charge of, you know,
the kids, making sure their teeth are brushed and they
come home with cavities, we know who dropped the ball, right,
and so it prevents the blame shifting and the finger
pointing and the overall stress. But you have to get
to that point of being able to let go of control.
And I tell this, especially for women. You know what,
(46:32):
he might not do it how you like it. He
might not make the bed the way you love it
to be made. Don't criticize him, don't go behind him
and redo it. Let just the bed be made that way.
Maybe on the weekends you tidy it up a little bit,
or you add some extra pillows, or you do something
makes you feel a little bit better. But you know,
especially I know for men, that if you go and
you criticize the way they do it, they're going to
(46:54):
stop doing it because they feel like it's not worth it, right,
And so part of relinquishing control and moving back into
that female archetype is going to be accepting that somebody
might not do something the way that you want it done,
or they might not do it as timely as you
want it done, and you need to be able to
control yourself and allow them the accountability of seeing the
(47:17):
dishes pile up.
Speaker 5 (47:18):
For example, Yeah, yeah, let.
Speaker 3 (47:21):
Go exactly, It's exactly what you need to do is
not criticize, but find ways that you say, hey, listen,
I see the kids that have cavities now, and it
was on your list. Let's figure out a way a
path forward. Obviously what we had plan is not working.
So I think it's and conversation absolutely something as falling
(47:43):
as like okay, and what can we do to help
to do something different?
Speaker 7 (47:48):
Right?
Speaker 2 (47:48):
Is that we shift this to make it work.
Speaker 4 (47:50):
And that's a really non critical way to communicate that, right,
What does it look like? How can we work together
to move forward or how can we work together to
make this a better experience for everybody involved instead of
you know you this was your job and you.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Failed, right shaming. Shaming is not a loud right.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
Which a lot of people just do not know how
to communicate noncritically, which is something that I teach in
my hybrid group. How do you approach these things with
your partner and coming in with you know, I really
want to have a conversation about this and how we
can maybe be more efficient or more effective, how we
can work together with you know on this and coming
in with this sort of like collaborative mindset versus pointing
(48:30):
out the ways in which someone has potentially failed and
can can really trigger you know, the wounding that other
people carry.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
Well, Jessie, I want to I just want to make
sure is there anything else you know, where can we
find you. Where can people find your book? I mean
that's the most important thing.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I think. I want to read your book.
Speaker 5 (48:49):
I want to read your book for sure.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
So tell our listeners where they can find you and
where they can find your book.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Yeah, so they can go to www. Dots and yet
there's dot com so you can find me there. And
the book is on Amazon, so you can go on
Amazon and order your copy within one or two days.
We're going to have it at home, and I do
have a table in it. We're highlighting all the female
(49:17):
and male archetypes, what works well at home, but also
what works well in a work environment, because that's something
I learned as well. It could be a whole other
podcast is how you actually behave in a male dominated
environment and still succeed. But really this part, I'm really
happy and super thrilled that we had this conversation this morning,
(49:39):
because I think it's very important for anyone trying me
to a career and have a happy, healthy relationship with responsors.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
Yeah, and I mean, it's the world we live in today, right, we.
Speaker 4 (49:52):
Have a lot of dual income households. It's it is
just the world we live in nowadays.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Yeah, So I agree that it's very important and it
touches on you know, both our male and female listeners,
which you know we are very passionate about. So obviously,
if you guys are watching right now, thank you, thank
you so much for listening. Please go pick up Josie's
book US and Yet and yet and yet and Please.
While you're there on Amazon online, go check out doctor
(50:20):
Hensley at the lovedoc dot com.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
Check out all of her services there, her.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Hybrid group coaching program, all of her courses Coach Elizabeth.
We also have some resources on the on the website
and on your Amazon link.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Yep, we'll be sure to add your book.
Speaker 4 (50:37):
To Yeah, we will add your book to our Amazon store. Yeah,
that's in my link tree, So anybody that accesses my
social media can go to my Amazon store. In books
that I find fascinating, helpful in the relationship space and
in personal growth and development, I put there.
Speaker 5 (50:52):
So we will add that there as well.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Yes, and of course we want to mention our affiliate,
Armora Colosstrum. Thank you Armora so much.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
We love you. Obviously.
Speaker 7 (51:01):
We have it in our water in our water today
as it always is, and it's kind of a one
stop shop vitamin for all of your needs.
Speaker 2 (51:11):
I mean you know a lot about how it affects you.
Speaker 4 (51:14):
I guess, so yeah, And we just did a previous
episode on vegas, nerve functioning and the gut and how
intimately connected our immune system, our God and our brain
all our and it is a colostrum supplement that supports
your immune system, your gut health, your brain health, and
it does wonders also for hair, skin and nails. So
(51:34):
it's a really great beauty product as well. So you
can go to try Armor dot com and use code
doc love doc.
Speaker 5 (51:43):
Sometimes we have codes with.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Numbers, sometimes we don't know number.
Speaker 4 (51:47):
It's just love just love doc, and you will get
fifteen percent off of your first purchase. So thank you
for being an affiliate Armor. You really love your products.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
And of course if you're a loyal listener of this podcast,
you get twenty seven percent all of doctor Hensley services.
So by using love doc twenty seven obviously we really
like that code love texts. But so you can go
visit doctor Hinsley at the lovedoc dot com. Please check
out Josie's book.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Thank you so much, thank you.
Speaker 4 (52:14):
For being on today, Josie. We really appreciate your expertise.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
Yes, it's been very insightful, very insightful, so thank you
and to all of our listeners. Until next time, peace,
love and perspective.
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