Episode 5, Season II | "Stripped: A Family Court Crisis" With special guest Meg Miller from @standwithmeg - The Love Doc Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to the Love Dog Podcast. I am your co host,
Reina Butcher here with our host, doctor Sarah Hensley, the owner,
CEO and founder of the Love Doc relationship coaching services.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hello.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
Hey, what's up.

Speaker 4 (00:23):
Well, I'm super excited today because we have a really
awesome guest with us.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Yes, we do that.

Speaker 4 (00:28):
I have been following for about six months and I'm
so excited for her to tell her story and for
her to enlighten us with some of the things that
she has been through. We are starting our series on
family court and we've dabbled on, i should say, in
that topic a few times, but we're really going to
hit it hard in this series. But first we need

(00:50):
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Speaker 5 (00:54):
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Speaker 1 (01:15):
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Speaker 4 (01:30):
I will only really drink mimosas, but I definitely had
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Speaker 4 (01:38):
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Speaker 5 (01:45):
So thank you Armor.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yes, so today with our Family in Court series, Yes,
we're starting with meg Miller, which stand with Meg right.

Speaker 5 (01:56):
Is your platform?

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Your platform? You know, I think we just want to
start off really just tell us your story, tell us
you know how it all began, you know, from the beginning.
This is your chance to kind of just shine light
on what you're going through. Obviously, Sarah and I have
had our own experiences in the family court system. Oh shit,

(02:19):
I'm alread getting emotional hold on I go. I gotta
take a breath because it's triggering. I'll be honest, it's
very triggering. It might happen fifteen years ago, So I've
had some time to get past it and heal from
it and forgive those who really hurt me. But I
know you're in the throes of it and you've you've
been living this, this battle.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
For a long time, a very long time. So start
from the beginning.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yes, because our listeners, I mean, we know that this
is going to be so valuable for our listeners because
just based on the video that you posted and the
comments that they got, like, there's so many people going
through this, and so many people that are fearful of,
you know, maybe getting a divorce because they fear the
family courts, syst and you know, you've got your own

(03:02):
story here. We don't want to scare our listeners, but
we want to bring awareness to our listeners of what's happening,
and we want we want to give people like you,
Meg and like all of us that have been through
it a voice.

Speaker 5 (03:16):
Yes, that's so important.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
And so here's your chance just to tell us, tell us,
I mean not that you don't have your own platform.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, it beautiful platform.

Speaker 4 (03:25):
It's two pieces of your story because for a long
time you were sort of operating under that gag order,
like you couldn't share certain things, and now you're at
a point where you can be more open. So just
give us the raw truth to the degree that you're
comfortable with of what you've gone through.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
So I've always wanted to be a mom. I always
want to be stayed home mom, and grew up in
family of eight siblings, so I've always been around family.
And I found when I was young twenty three, found
a guy that thought was a very good Christian guy.
You know, we saved ourselves to get married because he
wanted to do it right. Because I was a second wife,
he had a kid. I saw me a dad. I
thought I was doing everything correct or honeymoon. He changed.

(04:05):
I was pregnant two weeks later. Couldn't leave then anyway,
So then I was stuck. So then I tried to leave.
I tried to escape, and I left when my daughter
was three months old. But then my dad said, you
honor your commitment and you get back. Okay, he's not
really doing what you're saying. And there was a lot
of physical, very bad physical anyway, So I said, okay, God,

(04:28):
and I'm gonna do it. I'll I have a kid
and I'm gonna do it. So our second ones planned
and then it just went bad and so anytime I
would try to leave, he would, I'd be pregnant, lost everything.
He made me lose my job, you know, so I
was trapped. What do you do when you're trapped? Yeah,
And I knew he started making a lot of money
at this time, and I knew that if I left

(04:50):
he would. He told me, I'm going to make your
life a living hell if you leave, and I'll take
the kids.

Speaker 5 (04:56):
My ex said the same thing to me. And this
happens all the time.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
Right, it does. So I just you know what, I said, God,
just have him cheat and leave on me because I
couldn't leave. So I thought if he left me for
another woman, he would be as nicer.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
That's when you know it's really bad. Yeah, and you're like,
just cheat on me and then find somebody else and leave.

Speaker 5 (05:14):
That's literally the same thing that happened to me.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (05:16):
I was like, please let me find him cheating, yeah, like,
and please just like let him just cheat someone else.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
Well, and the problem is I couldn't never he was
domestic violence to me. I couldn't call the cops. He
had butted me to the ground once when I was
pregnant with our second I was holding her two year
old daughter and the target parking lot, and right away
when I fell to the ground, he went to the car,
saying I hit him, and he was taking a picture
of the newspaper and like he was so trying to
be convinced that I did it. I was seven, was pregnant,
holding the two year old out I had but a

(05:42):
man with big muscles. But I knew then if I
reported it, who would they believe? And then it is
and then who was they take my kids away? Because
I'm gonna beleive him or me? And so it wasn't
worth reporting, which is horribly wrong. And this was even
ten years ago.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
And it's so hard to when you're in those circumstances
and we both can relate here where you are trauma
bonded to somebody there, they come back, they hoover you
back in. You think they're gonna change. And we've talked
about this multiple times with you know, our ex's is
that I truly believed every time he would hoover me

(06:21):
back in that it would get better. I would tell myself, like,
it's gonna get better. Yeah, it's gonna get better. It's
gonna get better.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Especially when we have children.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yeah, and then all that happened is that got worse,
and it got worse, and it got worse, and there
was more cheating and there was a more emotional abuse.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Now I never really dealt with physical abuse per.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
Se, but definitely emotional abuse.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
And it's you. You you lose all sense of self
and so then.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
That's a huge part of it too, because not only
do you have these abusers who are doing things like
hoovering you in and giving you false hope and giving
you toxic hope, but then you lose your identity and
who you are all while you're trying to be a
mother and trying to save your children and thinking you're
doing the right thing, and then you just end up

(07:08):
sort of in this weird space where you just feel
really lost.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
And so when your abuser comes and abuses you.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
More, right, it's just this vicious cycle that you can't
get out of. So I mean, I just I just
want to say that because we totally understand that that sign.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
And some people are very judgmental. I thought you said
you you left him, Well, he left me, but I
wanted him to leave, all right, But I didn't like
how he left, how he left I thought it was
you know, I was pregnant with the twins, so I
had I was trying to leave after for a second born,
and then I was trying to leave before my third
and everyone's like, how how do you You don't know

(07:47):
how to not get pregnant? I said, you know what
a woman, I mean, you can tell your partner not
to do something. What am I going to go to
an abortion after my husband? You know what I mean? Like?

Speaker 5 (07:55):
Yeah, and they can be very manipulative over the birth
control process.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
I couldn't care a kill, So I I know how not.
I haven't gotten pregnant, and you know, right ten years,
I know how not to right, But when the person
can control the manipulation is a.

Speaker 5 (08:08):
Huge and sexual abuse, sexual coercion.

Speaker 4 (08:12):
I mean, essay, you know it's not always your fault
or your decision.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
And your own husband can And I didn't realize that percent.

Speaker 4 (08:20):
Yeah. And I just spoke to somebody who I've been
Facebook friends with for a long time. We were in
a mom's group together, and she revealed to me that like,
her husband keeps getting her pregnant and she has no
control over it. And she didn't even realize that that
was abusive yep. And I like that is abusive, demanding
and forcing sex upon you right after when you're in

(08:41):
postpartum and you're.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Nursing, or you're pregnant with a ten pound baby, making
you down your hands and knees on a wood floor.

Speaker 4 (08:48):
Yeah, it's it's. It happens, and it happens way too often.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
It does.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
And and and that's one thing I love when you
guys were talking about it, because I didn't realize that
until I was in therapy and I was saying, he
did physical, you know, all of it, and she's like, no,
please add in the essay. I'm like, really, yeah, Megan,
you have. And I'm like what Because they don't, we
don't talk about it well.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
And you struggle with this is where I've struggled, you know,
with my my own sexual trauma with my ex is.
I used to look at it like, well, I was
a participant, right, I participated, But when I think back
to the coertion and the manipulation and you know, the
lack of emotional safety, I wasn't even myself, right, I

(09:29):
wasn't this person who could really stand up for myself
and say no, this doesn't feel good to me right,
This doesn't this feels off, this feels really wrong.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
And I think that's one thing. After I got a relationship,
I remember telling someone I've never had Can we say this,
I never had an orgasm with my husband?

Speaker 3 (09:43):
You can absolutely say that, okay.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
And I always thought I just I just don't have
wondering and of course, and no, I was wrong because I.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
Trust and is absolutely required for intimacy the response of
the body for the female, and we have talked about that.
So you know, a few times I think, and it's
just this is so much more common than people realize.
And you know, essay comes in many forms, many, many,
many forms, and you know it's not easy to leave

(10:15):
an abusive relationship. They trap you in just about every
way that they can trap you, and then you're terrified,
and then when you actually do a lot of the
things you fear actually do happen. And I do not
want anybody listening to this podcast to think, oh gosh,
now I can't get a divorce.

Speaker 5 (10:32):
We just want to educate.

Speaker 4 (10:34):
You about how to best protect yourself, because nobody tells
you how to protect yourself, and you can't always completely
protect yourself as.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Don't hide it tell your friends. And then you know
when I I would remember being pregnant with the twins
and he was braiding me and I had tears going
down my face at my daughter's school thing, and I
didn't tell anybody I was. I was embarrassed.

Speaker 4 (10:56):
Yeah, because you're ashamed, because you're like, people are going
to go, well, then why are you married to this?

Speaker 5 (11:01):
Why why are you still here?

Speaker 4 (11:03):
So you become very very ashamed, and you do want
to hide it and you do want to minimize it.
And I experience that exact same.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
Oh yeah, isolation, yes.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
And it just makes the cycle. It just makes you
even more ingrained into the cycle because you're like, well,
I'm so ashamed and so embarrassed that I've been in
this situation so long, and I don't want to be judged,
and you know, I don't want my kids to be
impacted by people knowing about this.

Speaker 5 (11:26):
So you do keep it to.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yourself, and we can turn it around to tell other
men and women. If a woman tells you something, you
believe her, vice versa. Men can be abused by women.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
For sure, Yeah, yeah, so can go hold ways.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
But if someone tells you there's some you know, bad
stuff going on, you support them, you know, because if
I would have known, that could tell somebody, even if
that person decides to leave later on, you could be
a witness. Look, I was there, I saw it, and
that's where people are held accountable for protecting victims well.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
And isolation is a tricky thing too, because I'm know
again in my experience, I had felt like I was
a participant in my own isolation, and so because of that,
I felt ashamed to then reach out because my family
had tried, and they had tried, and they had tried,
and they had tried, like I mean from the beginning,
like this isn't healthy, get out of this. So then

(12:18):
when it was finally time to really get out, I'd
isolated myself so much at the you know, at the
hands of of course my ex too. Right, there's that
manipulation tactic there that I just couldn't speak up about it, right,
I was too afraid until of course I was forced to,
which is a very similar situation than what you're going through.

(12:40):
My kid was ripped away from me too, So so
let's you know, so when you finally did he finally
leave or did you finally leave?

Speaker 2 (12:48):
So I had my third and then I was going
to leave again. After he was a month or two,
we went on a trip to New Orleans with the
All's business partners's begging me to stay, begging me to stay.
I said, no, I'm leaving. It was our last trip.
I had to you know, had to show my I
had to. It was a business trip, right, so I
had to show be his little you know, Rophy, I guess, right.
And then I came home on the airplane home. I

(13:09):
remember going. I didn't start my period, but I was nursing.
I had one or two month old, you know, pumping
the whole time when I was on this trip. Yeah,
I found I was pregnant that night, and I'm like,
I'm going to have a two kids in one year.
Then it was three kids in one year, Oh my goodness.
So then a month later found out was twins, and
I was like, oh my gosh, three in one year.

(13:29):
I mean I was pregnant two years in a row
or summers, you know. Yeah, So but then he was
So I was pregnant with the twins, and then he
was always gone. But I finally found a receipt that
he had bought all brand new furniture for the other house,
and I was really pregnant, and so I found out
he was leaving. So then he moved out, and I
filed for divorce to protect myself because he started emptying
all the bank accounts, you know. So I had the twins.

(13:51):
He took him to the hospital, pretending that he was
a husband, but he didn't wear his ring and I did,
and I knew he was cheating on me. And I
had to have him in the operating room because I
wanted my girls to know that their dad was there.
But it was hard. Oh, I can only imagine, you know,
And he's texting his girlfriend the whole time, sending pictures.
But had the twins, Thank the Lord, they were healthy.
They're in the Nike you for two weeks, so I was,

(14:12):
but he was gone. He left right after I had
the babies. Didn't even take me home from the hospital.
I had to have some pick me up anyway. So
I was in the hospital for two weeks with the twins,
and I was struggling the three little ones at home
with the babysitter because you know, at that time, just
turned one, just turned three, and a five year old
had just start kindergarten. So I'm taking the kindergarten to school.
I'm driving to the hospital an hour away taking care
of the twins, coming back taking care of the threes threes.

(14:34):
But then after that, a week later, I had to
be there a full time because I was nursing twins.
So at nurse one and I nursed the other, and
then I'd pumped for an hour, then I'd nurse one.

Speaker 5 (14:43):
Yeah, that's all you do, It's all I did.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
And he turned off my credit He shut all my
credit cards off. I couldn't eat, and so my friend
had to come up and give me a credit card
to eat. And it just got worse. He turned off
all the water when I got home with the twins,
so I had to pick all the kids in the
car to turn the water back on. We lived in
a million dollar house. I went from a million dollar
house to food stamps. He had my child who worked

(15:07):
for eighteen months. There was a GoFundMe that went national
fout ten thousand dollars to even buy stuff. So it
was long, three years of it. But the truth was told.
The judge saw the truth. They saw that his nanny
at the time he lied under oath that it was
his nanny, but it was a girlfriend, which I don't
care you had a girlfriend. The problem is I've had

(15:27):
two people conspire to take my children away from me
for over twelve years now, and they won. But the
divorce decree was solid. It was a thirty page to
force to cree. I got eighty percent. Not because I
didn't want them to have a dad, but he was
all vacationing all the time, yeah, and working and not
even taking care of the kids. I mean, I had
people that could have been for their own groceries get

(15:48):
me groceries. And that was hard because he makes millions,
you know, and I'm just like so, and my decreates
talks about taking He's buying furniture for this nanny taking
her own vacations. I couldn't even get the AC to
fix my van, so my kids were in the hot van.
I had pictures of them sweating. And he wouldn't trade
vehicles with me so to get the AC for a

(16:09):
van for them. So it's hard. I couldn't even know
the grocery store with myself. There's no you know, you
couldn't like order online, right, I had two car seats.
Who's going to hold the one year old boy, right,
Who's going to hold a three year old I was trapped.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
The first time I got out, I took the kids
to go see Santa for the first time by myself,
and the twins were babies, and I was so proud
of myself, but I'm like, how do I nurse at
a nurse? It was It was crazy, but everything you know,
he didn't. Then he started stalking me and harassing me,
put a GPS on my car, The state put a
protection all.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
This is when the divorce was final.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Sorry, this was going through. So the divorce was three
and a half years.

Speaker 3 (16:46):
Okay, that's brutal.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Six court dates. Yeah, three hundred and fifty thousand dollars
and that was the equity I got out of the house,
but it went to a lawyer.

Speaker 5 (16:54):
Yeah, so at three and a half year divorce, that's
pretty brutal. What else was going on during that time?

Speaker 2 (17:00):
During exchanges he would touch me inappropriately. If I was
holding a baby, he would touch my chest. He just
felt like, even though he had a woman, he just
felt like I was his property. Still, we had a
situation to where I'd putting the kids in the van
helping him because we had five in car seats and
he would put his back on me and rub his

(17:20):
thing on me. And finally, at that point it was
I was like, I'm recording this, and so I put
my cell phone and hit it and it showed he
wouldn't let me go, and I had my kids are
around and I'm not going to push him off and
get off of me, right, I don't want to scare
my kids. So the video, I'm just sitting there. Can
you let go of me? Please? You know, but my
daughter's walking around, so and I said, get that off

(17:42):
of me. I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything
while he's so finally I did make a report on that.
His father actually told me to call the cause yea,
and I did, and that's made a report well to
state put a huge protection order and charged him, thank god,
and so there's a protected order on him. We went
through court but and then the attorney made me drop
it because you know, we don't want that, which is

(18:05):
a whole absurd thing. But anyway, protection order was in
for two years. Come to find out, he one day
he was like, are you dating a guy? And I'm like,
it's been two years, and something was weird and his
mother goes, something's on your car. So we go in
the GPS. And this was in the day where the
GPS was big, and it was a huge but it
was a big one. It wasn't even one like it

(18:27):
was stuck up under there and they pulled it off
and I was like, oh my goodness. And it took
eight months for it to tie to him, and he
got charged in the day he got arrested. I was
so excited. He turned himself in but and he pleaded guilty,
but took it down to misdemeanor because it was a felony.
But he has mortgages. He's a Christian mortgage guy in
Kansas City. He's very well known. He's all for the

(18:47):
Christian radio network. He said, his own radio show. But
so he didn't want that charge because he couldn't work,
So he played guilty misdemeanor. Had only a ninety days
house arrest. During this whole time, he's writing me love
letter and sending me begging me back, while he's sending
me flowers, while he's with his nanny girlfriend. So but anyway,
all that happened and then the divorce was final, I thought, oh,

(19:11):
we won let's get over with it, you know. Nope,
took me back to court in a different state.

Speaker 5 (19:17):
So what was in your final divorce decree?

Speaker 2 (19:20):
The final decree stated how a wonderful mother I was,
how I chose my children over any relationship, how I
was night and day with my kids, and I chose
a house by based off my children's safety. And then
it went into how he was vacationing not seeing the children.
How when the twins were in the nicku for two weeks,

(19:41):
he only visited them twice for an hour. So it
really the thirty page divorce decree really showed the truth.
Took three hundred fifty thousand dollars to get there, six
court dates, but at least the truth was known, and
I thought, thank the Lord and the judge really cared
about the situation. Because I couldn't work. I had claim
I was working in the divorce, which still doesn't make

(20:03):
sense to me. But there's no daycare provided for so
I couldn't even work. But because five kids in.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Daycare, it's spent and that would take all your money, yeah,
every bit of it.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
Right, and so the top. So that's what's weird. And
every state is different. But it does matter if you
make a hundred thousand to a million, it's the same percentage.
So I got three thousand dollars for five children a month.

Speaker 4 (20:28):
Wow, that's you know, that's not enough to even probably
cover the cost of daycare for five years.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Right, So I couldn't work. I was strapped to not work. Right,
But then the judge really felt for me. I was
only married six years, but it's created seventeen years of hell.

Speaker 5 (20:46):
Just goes to show you.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
I mean, I try to tell my older daughter, who
you choose to marry in life will have the biggest
impact on every aspect of your life.

Speaker 5 (20:56):
Ask me how I know.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, Well, you can change jobs, you can change where
you live, you can change family. But who you choose
to partner with was will detect your whole life? Detect
change your whole life? Right, And who's a kid with? Yeah,
and that is the worst thing, And you have to
all I was, I was a see I'm a photographer,
and so I taket sing your pictures and every girl
I talked to and boy, I said, who you choose
to partner with, that's the biggest choice you'll ever make.

(21:18):
And it's worse. It can make your life amazing or
can my life loving? Hell?

Speaker 3 (21:22):
That's right, and she was wisely, yes.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
You know, so yes, I love that you just said
that because I totally believe it. By that And then
and once somethime, somebody always told me one time, if
you have a partner vision having a son.

Speaker 3 (21:33):
Like him, would you want.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
To sound the acts like him?

Speaker 5 (21:36):
Yeah? I know.

Speaker 4 (21:37):
I remember being pregnant with my second and my husband
started drinking again, like he was sober for a little while,
and then he started drinking pretty soon after I got
pregnant with my second, and it went downhill so so badly,
and I just remember being like, God, please let this
be a girl, because if this is a boy, you know,

(21:57):
the same sex parent is tends to be the most
influential parent. I mean not always, but it, you know,
tends to be. I said, he will corrupt a son.
It will not be okay. He will not teach this
son good morals and good values. And at least if
it's a daughter, maybe she'll look at me to know
how to grow up and the morals and the values

(22:19):
to have.

Speaker 5 (22:20):
Which that sounds harsh, but.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Well even if I felt, but if you look at
your a person Let's say you don't like how they
acting on you're dating. Visualize your son at like that.
Would you support your son acting that way even if
that child never met their father. But it's still a
genetic thing too.

Speaker 4 (22:35):
There's a genetic components to lots of psychological disorders.

Speaker 5 (22:39):
I mean, narcissism also being one of them.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, so let's see where we.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Were we Well, you were talking about like your divorce
was final. What I want our listeners to know and
and for you to really bring awareness to is when
shit hit the fan, and what happened, what led up
to that, and then what's happened since.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
So twenty sixteen, my divorce was final, he appealed it.
So that went through almost the end of December twenty
seventeen by to court not even few months later in
a different state. Then we're in court for two and
a half years.

Speaker 5 (23:14):
Because he changed jurisdictions on you because you live. Can
I say where you live or now?

Speaker 4 (23:19):
Okay, So you live in Kansas City, And Kansas City
is like right there on the line between Missouri and Kansas.

Speaker 5 (23:23):
So if you live on one side of the city,
you're in case moo. If you're on the other side.
You're in k c K.

Speaker 3 (23:28):
So okay, because I was going to ask that, how how.

Speaker 4 (23:31):
Yeah, but it's the city is pretty much split between
two days, and.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
So I go five minutes and I'm in Missouri, right,
I mean it's yeah, it's I don't understand it. I
don't know if there's any other huge city that's on
right line, but I know, I know. So that's where
it's easy to do that and a lot of people
do it. But that's where he took me back. But
the problem was he took me back to court to
the lower the child support to nine hundred a month what.

Speaker 4 (23:53):
Five children see in Kentucky. I don't know how it
works in different states. In Kentucky, it's just like a
mathematical form that all these things go in to it,
and unless you agree to something different mutually, it is
what it is, right, right, It's on the income and
the amount of children that you have.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
Correct. That's where this gets weird because he went through
eight attorneys, not I can't and it was seven or
eight And I'm not factual on this, yes, right, So
when he found a good attorney that really saw the truth.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
They leave, right.

Speaker 5 (24:24):
You know, they don't want that, so.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
The only attorneys that he could keep are the dirty
ones that just want the money. Well, he doesn't mind
spending money.

Speaker 3 (24:32):
Set me on his.

Speaker 4 (24:33):
Kids, right, accept on his kids to be in your care.
Then it's a problem.

Speaker 3 (24:37):
Right.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
But that's where you still have to fight it. Even
though there is a calculation if they take if I
didn't go to court and prove the calculation, right, that
they would go down nine hundred like that, right, And
I will say I didn't say this. The judge on
the divorce decree did give me three thousand dollars a
maintenance because he knew I couldn't support the children on
three thousand on child supports, right, so he did give
me maintenance to offset it. And that's what I had

(24:59):
to get s thousand dollars so I could survive. But
preschool costs one thousand.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
Dollars a month.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, I still was tight. Not to mention, I still lawyer.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
Bills, right yeah.

Speaker 5 (25:07):
Oh and those pile up, yeah, like that's so quick?

Speaker 3 (25:10):
Yeah yeah yeah. And five kids, I mean.

Speaker 5 (25:13):
I have we have four in my house. My husband
has too.

Speaker 4 (25:18):
I have my two daughters that my husband just adopted
recently because of their dad's passing and four kids.

Speaker 5 (25:23):
I mean, Rain, it can tell you our house is
a zoo, pure chaos.

Speaker 4 (25:26):
It's pure chaos, twenty four to seven. And I mean,
I can't even imagine them all being like that little
Like our oldests are twelve and fourteen now, so they're
pretty independent. Like they can go make themselves some food,
right like they can. They can kind of be home,
you know, and not need like you being right there
and you have a one or two year old, your
whole life is just making sure they don't climb on something.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
So like right, I mean I on their head or
fall down. I had to wait for the twins to
take a nap so I can push Mo the yard.
Why my boys would follow me with their little play
push mowers so I could watch them. Oh my god,
why my x pace for everything to be done cleaning
when you had the kids and nanny everything, And here
I'm trying to push Mo with it. And that's how

(26:09):
I could watch them. So it was unbelievably crazy of
the situation that I was stuck in. And I'm so
thankful through all that God was by my side. And
you know, the nights of nursing my twins and then
throwing up on each other, and then throwing up on me,
and then the one year old crying in all the
night and you going upstairs to get them, and then
my three year old's still waking up.

Speaker 5 (26:28):
You have no sleep, No sleep, didn't none. I had
no sleep with one child.

Speaker 4 (26:32):
I mean, my kids are six years apart, so you know,
my oldest was definitely sleeping through the night by the
time I had my youngest, but then she didn't sleep.
Neither my kids slept, and just getting up with one
child was enough to break almost break you.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, but here's what I will say through all that,
God showed me this, even though it was horribly hard.
They're my children.

Speaker 5 (26:51):
Yeah, and you'd find out I did it.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
And I didn't have a person there yelling at me
while I did it. It would have been the same. Yeah,
I would have been doing it by myself with that,
And that's what God was saying, Megan, you can do this,
and how did you do it?

Speaker 3 (27:04):
Guess what you would do it too if you.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Were in the same situation. You have to your children
and our children, and we loved them, and it gave
me that strength. So anyone does want to leave, it's hard,
but guess what, It's easier because I didn't have anyone
dictating how I fed my child or dictating how I
cleaned the kitchen or clean the toilet, right right, So
it was like freedom.

Speaker 5 (27:23):
I do understand that.

Speaker 4 (27:24):
Freedom is I understand that one hundred percent because if
you are with a partner that does not help you
and is also abusing you, at least you're free from
the abuse while you're still doing all of the hard.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
Work exactly you would have been doing anyway by your Yeah,
you do that anyway.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
And that's what I tell people. Yes, it is scary,
and your kids might, you know, go through this, and
my situation got really bad, and we can turn onto
that if you guys want to. But that's why there
is hope. And it's hell going through the legal system,
but at least you don't have that in your home,
right right right, you know, I mean, be healthier for
the children being free from an abuse.

Speaker 4 (28:00):
It's it's a very it's not an easy journey either.
People think like, oh, once you're out and you're free,
it's just like sunshine and rainbows. It's not your trauma bonded.
Your brain has become addicted to this intermittent reinforcement cycle
of massive stress hormones coupled by you know, dopamine and serotonin.
When things are somewhat calm or something's not happening, and

(28:21):
then you get massive dump of stress hormones. Your nervous
system is just totally wrecked. And so, believe it or not,
people don't even know this about trauma bonding. There's a
withdrawal stage where your brain chemistry is just so messed
up because you know, it's become addicted to the cycling
of stress hormones plus like the relief hormones or relief chemicals,

(28:42):
I should say, And it's a rollercoaster for your brain
even when you're out of it. You're crying, you're then
you feel empowered, and then you feel sad, and then
you feel you know, like you're you're scared, and you know,
you're just a rollercoaster of all sorts of emotions that
happen even when the threat isn't living with you anymore.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
Yes, I agree through that, and I think that was
kind of my saving grace because there was a restrain order.
He couldn't contact me even he was but he couldn't
least call me. But I think God kept me so
busy with those children. Yeah, and the happiness I got
from the little twins and the little ones running around,
the big chunky cheeks, and you know that I didn't
have time to think on that. That's was a gift
because I didn't. It was just the children and there

(29:21):
was no But I've worked on myself since then as
I've gotten older, you know, to get through it. But
I didn't have those feelings because these children were all
over me.

Speaker 4 (29:30):
Yeah, so you were pretty probably fairly dissociated, just in
the trenches of parenting.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yes, yeah, but I was still going to therapy every week.
My therapist would help me change diapers if there's a blood,
you know. So I was always working on myself during
all of this, and that's when I was I didn't
want to like attach myself to another person, yes, you know, but.

Speaker 3 (29:45):
Yeah, I just want like kudos to you, Meg.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
I just I hear your story and it puts my
own story in perspective where I'm just like, I mean,
I had one and it was hard and then you know,
and I feel like it was just this long battle
and my battle was long and it was drawn out,
but I could not imagine trying to do all that
with five kids under the age of ten. Like I

(30:09):
just it blows my mind, Like, if anything, you deserve
an award. Oh no, you deserve an award that you
that you're here and that you know you're still fighting
and you know.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
And that's where the story gets so sad.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
Yeah, I know, and and we want to talk about
that too. We definitely want to talk about that, even
though it is sad.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Because there was so much pain and trauma that I
got through. Yeah I won, meaning my kids are safe,
you know, and and so then we got through it,
and then out of nowhere, I thought everything was going
to be okay. We went through court. I fought that
battle another fifty thousand dollars in my credit cards. The
judge says, no, you still need to paid three thousand,
and actually went up one hundred dollars, so it's two
nine or two hundred nine, you know, three thousand total

(30:51):
by this time, and I'm like, yay, I want again
now behind my back my ex and his wife and
we didn't even go through the fact of his wife
going to the cops telling all I want you to
just get arrested. Had all my town cops looking out
for me, that if I made one mistake, they were
going to arrest me, and they planned how they were
going to take my kids from me and put me
in jail so she can have my kids as her own.

(31:12):
That's that's going on while he's doing so. I've had
two people.

Speaker 4 (31:17):
Disordered people tend to find more disordered people, right, and
I hear that a lot right. New wife comes in.
New Wife's like, no, I want this to be my family.
I've had so many clients tell me that they've experienced
that very same thing, where new wife is like, wants
to be the mom, wants to be the face of

(31:37):
the family, wants to have the kids and have.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
I'm sure that happens with dads too, dau yes to
be new dad.

Speaker 4 (31:44):
Yeah, it can go both ways, it really can. This
is not a gendered issue. I am the first one
to say I know through experience, and ask.

Speaker 5 (31:55):
Me how I know.

Speaker 4 (31:56):
If you listen to our last episode, you will know
that women can be just as abusive and nasty and
disordered as men can be.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
So and I've met men that will pay extra child
support and make sure his wife's taken care of or
and had fourth core or four kids at homes. I
don't want her to have to disrupt their children. So
I do know there are great men out there.

Speaker 4 (32:15):
My husband pays three hundred extra dollars a month that
he does not have to pay because it's technically for
day care costs. His kid is twelve now and not
in daycare. But he's like, I just don't want to
take that away from her mom, because you know, she's
relied on that for so long. And then he will
jump in and pay for whatever else she needs, like,
we'll pay for braces, we'll pay for whatever.

Speaker 5 (32:36):
You know. He just it's all about making sure his
kids have everything that they need.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
And it's the way it should.

Speaker 5 (32:41):
Yeah, And there are so many good men that are
like that.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
There are, And there are also people that are in
my situation that really are horrible that like, don't you
can't have our children? No, you can't have them. I
had my kids eighty percent. But anytime my ex wanted
to take my son to a car show for three days,
go for it. Anytime a Chiefs game, Royals game, go
for it. I did not care.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
Well, you don't want your children to miss out on
those experiences?

Speaker 2 (33:03):
No, And it was like I had an extra kid
for a little bit, right, it was nice. But I
never withheld my kids from their father ever, even as
they became older. You want to go, fine, go, I
don't care. So there is a difference there too. Even
though I don't like how my ex treated me and
I didn't agree with how he treated our children, I
can't control that, right, I can't control Gus on his house,

(33:24):
and you know, and people some people are like the
Disneyland dad will be happy it's a Disneyland dad, instead
of mean dad. What do you want? Pick one? Well,
I picked the Disneyland dad, or my kids coming home
going Dad bought me this, you know. So I've always
taught people that be happy for that because I've had
them come home bawling their eyes out because dad did this. Right,
I don't want and you can't control it.

Speaker 5 (33:44):
You can't control it at all. And the court system
doesn't care. They don't care.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
They don't care, they don't care at all.

Speaker 4 (33:50):
And so I think that's why so many of my
clients are afraid of getting a divorce, is because I
don't trust them my other you know, my spouse, as
the other parent to raise these kids. Somewhat on his
own or her own, and it's it is true that
it can be scary, and a lot of people end
up parallel parenting. And what I like to say is,

(34:12):
you know, one secure, healthy parent, the science shows can
make an amazing difference in whether a kid becomes securely
attached or not. And so you can always be that parent,
you know, as long as you have access to your children,
which I think is where your story takes a really
dark turn. Yes, so talk to us a little bit
about when it hit the fan.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
So I finally we had COVID hit. My kids are
in school, finally in twenty twenty, everyone's in school, you know,
and then COVID hit. Yea. Then they're home for eight months,
oh my god. And then I'm homeschooling all of them.
It took five hours a day, I'm sure. Yeah. So
then that happened. And then finally in twenty twenty two,
I can get a job.

Speaker 3 (34:52):
And I'm so excited about the career.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
I was like, so I found my dream job, and
my kids were super excited. I say, we I wanted
to move, so we moved into our dream home. I
was like, if you want to live in the school district.
I can't afford this. I need to make more money. Okay,
well support mom, We'll get you. So did that. I
moved into her home super excited, and I didn't know

(35:14):
behind my back for a whole year, my ex and
his wife had been meeting with our children's court appointed therapist,
telling him them lies. And the court order even states
that no both parents have to be present with the therapists,
meaning you can't text her privately, you can't email her privately.
I didn't know he was meeting with her. So, for instance,
when I found this out, one date, I was at
my twins field trip having a ball with her, with

(35:37):
everyone in the school. He was there teaching, telling the
therapist horrible lies about me, sixty nine sessions that I
didn't know.

Speaker 5 (35:44):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
Then he got to a point where he would take
the kids after they're at my house, like after Christmas,
right before they're taken, he would take them to the therapist.
And my children got in the car one day after school,
my four little ones said, mom and mom, Mom, mom,
dad keeps making us say lies about you. I have
this on recording, and this was not and this was
not from his house. This is from school. They just
got in the car. Mom. Dad keep saying, we have

(36:08):
to make up things about you, and if we don't
say it those things are true, then we will get
in huge trouble. And they probably dramatized a little bit
of it, you know, like I had to go to
bed without dinner, you know, or Dad made as good
a bed at six. I don't know the truth on that,
but there's three of them we're saying, and four of
them we're saying this, right. So I said, well, guys,
you know it's not good to lie. Well, Dad, we
can control them. We're so sorry. So I started seeing
some things happening, like what's going on anyway? Moving our home.

(36:33):
I'm so excited a job. Finally, I feel like I
could have a lie for the first time. I did
give him fifty percent a year before that, because I'd
like thinking, if I give him fifty percent, they're older now,
the twins are ten, the oldest was older, maybe he'll
stop right. No, it got worse. So then I had
and then I was at my home my kids, and
I loved our whole situation. They all had their own rooms,

(36:54):
they had their own bathrooms. It was a lot for
me to get this house like it was, you know,
but I I said, okay, they're only going to be
here for rio eight more years. No, yeah, eight more years. Okay.
So I had a wonderful week with my children. My
mom came to visit like she always does. We made
dragon hair. It's like a weird, but I mean I
did everything, slime you name it, you know, may hold

(37:15):
my popcorn that morning, and took my kids to school,
dropped him off. My son twist and at that time
was ten eleven eleven, and he always kisses me, make
sure every time, and he didn't do it that day.
My son's like, Mom, become my basketball game after work?
Are you gonna miss work? I said, yeah, I'm gonna
miss work. My twins were excited to do a project,
a fourth grade project, and I found out eleven thirty

(37:36):
am that I had to go to court two or three.
I get to court full custody. They wanted to gone
my They wanted to take my kids completely away from me,
and I was like, what, why, how? What I'm sitting
there and they read the most disgusting things anyone could
ever say about a woman, about a mom, about a parent.
That's it and so what were the I mean, if

(37:59):
you feel comme trouble sharing, what were the allegations? Well,
first off, I've never seen them, what never got to
read them, and the judge even said I'm only going
to read part of them because it's so bad. No
one's questioned me. The Guardian item never's questioned me. And
the Garden Lighten was the one that filed it. So

(38:20):
the Guardian Lightem is actually well, very well known in
my county that takes he hates women because has all
women are batshit crazy. He's also a judge. Oh okay, anlare.
But I have found probably ten women now that have
lost their kids like I have because of this jo
Garden where like.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
Had someone had anybody signed affidavits like what?

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Like?

Speaker 3 (38:41):
Under what grounds were?

Speaker 5 (38:43):
Like?

Speaker 2 (38:43):
I mean it just the order said I lose full
custody because I have mental illness and I drink too much.
That's why I saw. But I getn't to see the
deep report why right? And all I know is what
I remember hearing And you have to remember too. I
don't remember everything because I was because.

Speaker 5 (38:59):
You're traumatized and memories are encoded differently when you're being traumatized.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Right first, exactly, But I do remember certain things. I
teach my kids how to give head. Oh my gosh,
I watched porn with my children. I have random guys
at my house watching my children, which everyone in the
whole neighborhood, and everyone knows me. I don't have a man, right,
never I brought I brought one guy a long time ago.
I had one er short relationship, not short. We were

(39:24):
together for two years, but I only saw each other
other the weekend because I kept him away from my kids.
So even I did have a you're entitled to a life, right,
but I never ever ever did like I saw him
for two years and then I can only see me
over the weekend. And then my kids met him finally
after years, but they didn't hurt, you know. Anyway, that's
a whole other thing. But I always never had a
man in my bed. My kids have never seen a
man in my bed ever, not even their father. The

(39:47):
oldest remembers maybe because she was five, but they've never
seen they've been in my bed. So for him to
say that, so that was absurd. And even if I
did have a guy come over, like you know, right,
you're entitled to a life, right. Yeah, I didn't have
food in my house. My pants was empty, even though
I had a half a cow my garage. My pantry
is full organized. Yeah, my mom recorded walking into my
house after we were gone.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
Help.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Pantries full, but I.

Speaker 3 (40:09):
Have no food.

Speaker 5 (40:11):
Yeah, that's cat's pee on the bed.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
Yeah, mold.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
I lived in a five hundred and fifty thousand dollars
house that I worked my tail off for. Everyone came
to my house. My house was an open door. When
you don't have a partner, people can just come in
and you don't care. Right if a kid didn't want
to go home at eleven o'clock at night, because there's
spend the night. They in my house. People saw me
every minute of my life. Six o'clock in the morning,
a kid had practiced their dad's picking them up.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
I mean, you know, some of what you've just said
here today, it's very evident that you are a very
hands on mother like you don't you don't even have
to defend that with U. Yeah, because this, I mean
this not to the degree that you have gone through,
but something very similar happened to me, you know, I
mean my ex file a dependent neglect and abuse case,

(40:57):
just said she's neglectful, she's abusive, she puts the physical
and emotional wellbeing of our child in danger. His parents
signed affidavits and boom, my kid was gone, gone, just gone. No,
no no other evidence you know to say that, you know,
no psychologists saying that I'd had multiple psychological disorders, which

(41:17):
is what they were claiming.

Speaker 5 (41:18):
And that is what happens.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
Yeah, they can just go in and say whatever they want.

Speaker 4 (41:23):
Whatever they want, you know. I went into as little
detail as possible as I could about my own story,
not my first custody battle, but second story of my
kids being targeted with false allegations from someone that was
previously romantically involved with my husband. And all they have

(41:45):
to do is say it. That's all they have to do.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
In the manipulation of children's brains.

Speaker 4 (41:49):
Yes, that's You've seen that firsthand as well. Where kids
are highly highly, highly impressionable, and alienation happens when children
believe that, Okay, I have one parent overhear you that
I know will always love me unconditionally. If Mom finds
out that I lie, she's still gonna love me. I
don't have to earn her love. But this parent over

(42:12):
here their love has to be earned, and I have
to perform to get love from that parent. So I
have to be compliant, and I had to tell these
lies or my safe connection with this parent is going
to be in jeopardy. And that's exactly what happened in
your case, exactly. It's exactly what happened to so many
people I know.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
So I will stay. A week before they were taken,
I forgot this. My kids come home from school and
I'm like, mom, this lady came and interviewed us DCF
or CPS, whatever we call it. Yeah, they're not going
to tell her our therapist what we said. Are they
and the twins were crying or ten? No, Well, they
usually just say if it's you know, someone's doing something
bad or not. Mom, they can't tell the therapist. I
like this, lady. They can't tell the therapist what I said,
or my dad what I said? Well, what'd you say?

(42:53):
I was just I just don't want to tell. Well,
the DCF called me after they were taken. I got
a hold of her two or three months after I
hadn't talked, still haven't seen them, She said, Megan, I
have never your kids were fine. They didn't have any
sexual problem. Nothing was wrong. Your kids are great. I
have and I have it on recording. I believe your
children are being prodded, and I fear for the safety
of their mental brains with their.

Speaker 4 (43:12):
Father, right, Yeah, because no one will do anything true,
I mean, you don't think people just don't realize how
common this is and how easily children are manipulated. They're
manipulated so easily because they're trying to get safe connection.
They're trying to figure out how do I get or
maintain the safe connection with my caregiver. And a child

(43:32):
will grasp at straws and do just about anything to
not have their caregiver abandon them.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
And do you do you think like when a child
attaches herself to abuser, it's almost safer for them because
they're not being targeted anymore. Yeah, does that make you
know what I mean? Like, my children were constantly getting prouded.
Your mom can't. I can't believe your mom puts signs
of birthday signs in your yard and for your birthday
and she wasn't saying it out there, just silly little things,
but now they don't hear that. Yeah, so it's almost

(43:58):
more peaceful. For them, but they know I love them unconditionally, right, yeah,
so that it's safer. They know I'm always going to
be there, My door's always gonna be open. I don't know.
That's just something I've tried to read.

Speaker 4 (44:06):
It is an alienation is just an interesting topic. I mean,
there's so many different stages of alienation, you know, and
it goes from mild coercion and a child basically lying.
That's kind of like the first stage, and it goes
all the way up to they start to believe these
narratives where they call it gatekeeping, where the abusive parent

(44:30):
will say these things to the child to make the child,
in this really roundabout way, start to believe that the
other parent is unsafe, like, oh, I can't believe your
mom did this, And I can't believe your mom, you know,
let you wear shorts to school when it was only
seventy degrees. That's that's too cold, and I can't believe
she puts you in that situation. She's you know, in
just these little ways in which they insert the idea

(44:53):
that the other parent is bad and that the other
parent doesn't have their best interest in mind.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
I can't believe it that you eat that right that
time and life.

Speaker 4 (45:00):
Yes, that's called gatekeeping, and that's sort of like this
intermediate alienation phase. And then we get to full blown
alienation where the child actually does start to reject the
safe parent because again there's a psychological concept called splitting,
and kids have an underdeveloped psyche obviously, and so they

(45:21):
start to sort of categorize, well, this is the good.

Speaker 5 (45:23):
Parent and this is the bad parent.

Speaker 4 (45:25):
And even though they haven't experienced you being the bad parent,
the other parent has gained so much credibility with them
and has manipulated them so much. And again, underlying all
of that is their fear that if I don't comply,
I lose access of safe connection to this other parent.
And there is sort of in the back of their
mind like, Okay, I know that it's going to be

(45:47):
okay with this parent, but I just need to go
along and keep the peace. And there's a lot of
elements of compliance for children around trying to keep the
peace and trying to be compliant to their parents, and
so they will start essentially participating in the targeting against
you and believing and believing it.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
And that's what's happened with mine because they've been withheld
for so long because you know I lost sorry, I
lost the January twenty ninth of twenty twenty four. Didn't
see them until December twenty third of twenty twenty four.
No contact, no phone calls. Now you'd have to commit me, Yeah,
I mean see you. I would be.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
I can't even imagine. I cannot imagine.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
I couldn't. I can't go. I can't drive to town. What
if I see my kids at the store. I couldn't
imagine seeing my child at the store and then not
because they were told if I if they said hi
to me, if they ever saw me, they I'll go
to jail. A month after taking my best friend was
at school seeing my daughter and she leaned over and said,
your mom misses.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
You and loves you.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
She got in trouble. What how dare you tell these
girls by the mom step mom? And I'm like, wait,
where are we in a situation to where the kids
My kids didn't see a picture of me. My kids
didn't even know what it looks like anymore. My friends
would draw and pick. She was a dance practiced and
what my mom looked like. They know they took everything,
They took my home and then everything got taken. So

(47:08):
my problem is I can't imagine me a ten year
a little girl or boy go to school, never see
your mom again, not even a phone call, nothing. They
took all their phones, change all their numbers.

Speaker 5 (47:20):
How can these judges live with themselves?

Speaker 2 (47:22):
They live five minutes from me. I can't even drive
by the house, even though it's the main street. Then
I get the cops called that I'm stalking them. I'm not.
You really think I want to drive by my ex's
house to see my kids outside plane.

Speaker 5 (47:32):
I would probably be in prison.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Yeah, I probably would be too, honestly.

Speaker 4 (47:36):
And I know we say that, and it's easy to
say that, but your ultimate goal is like, no, I
don't want to because I want to see my kids
back right, Well, and that's.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
When people just go see them at school. I'm like
the grocers don't cut. No, they don't like you, but
it's more damaging for them my children. I care more
about my kids' brains. So if I saw my kids
and they are scared that they say hi to me,
that's so trauma. Then to see their mama and can't
say hill, right, And if then I couldn't say hi,
and if I said hi to them, I go to jail.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
That guilt I would put on them.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
I care more about my kid's brain than my own
feelings of seeing my children. So no, I can't. I
can't drive through town. I've had trauma where I couldn't
even drive by their school and I had to. But
I happened to clear my whole house out there, just
pot their rooms empty that we just decorated the night before.
My daughter reranged a whole room, so and everything in storage.

(48:27):
But he's taken me down. And that's what they do.
They pushed you so hard to wear you go crazy,
un alive yourself, You do stupid things.

Speaker 4 (48:38):
Yeah, that's the real. Okay, moms, if you're in the
car with your kids, turn the volume down. Fuckery of
this system is the fact that they do all of
these horrible things. There is so much injustice in so
many different ways. It doesn't even make any freaking sense

(49:00):
half the time. And then when you react in any way,
then they can point to figure out you and say
you're crazy.

Speaker 5 (49:08):
You're damn here, you're damaging, or here's here's the evidence
that you're unstable.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
Right.

Speaker 4 (49:13):
They push you to instability and take your kids away
and then look, you're unstable.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
And that's what they did to me. I had a
psychiatrist evaluation a year before my kids were taken. It
came back saying I'm too positive a person. Everything I've
gone through, with all the court stuff, I shouldn't be
this positive. And I was theatrical whatever that means, theodotrical animated.
I'm I'm you know, but my DS came back anger issues,
he needs all this. Then the day my kids then
the g al says you need to go back and

(49:39):
get another one, Like what You're going to make me
take another psych evaluation less than a year later when
you take my whole kids away.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
You've taken my kids away?

Speaker 5 (49:47):
Right, how's that going to turn out?

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Now?

Speaker 4 (49:48):
Yeah, I'd be I'd be the first one to say
I'm one step away from being committed.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
And so when I got to the doctor, I said
the same doctor, I said, how I to answer these question?
Because last time you had the one of the questions
where you know, are you sad a lot? No, I'm not.
I'm a happy person, but I am sad now I
lost my kids. Yeah, so it's going to be opposite.
But normally am I sad? No, but you took my
kids away. So I literally recorded myself doing the answers
out loud because I was like, this is ridiculous. How

(50:16):
am I supposed to answer how I'm feeling when my
kids are gone? I haven't seen them in two much
at that point, right, you know. And then and then
all of a sudden we had other sessions from the
same doctor, and I'm like, who ordered this? No one
even ordered it. The gl did, so that was a violation.
But and so then we had one more session left
with the psychiatrists on zoom zoom, the last one, and
he's like, I got one more session I want to

(50:37):
do with you. I said, okay, what did the test
come back so far? What are you thinking about me?
You'm just curious because I knew it'ld be bogus one
of them. It was a disorder where you can't even
survive without this relationship. I can't think of what was
called like dependency, Yes, so dependent that I and it.
It was such a bad one, I think if I
looked it up, I remember correctly that I couldn't even
take care of myself physically, even showers. I'm so dependent

(51:01):
on my children, and here I was working, still wearing makeup,
taking care of myself, lost my children, go to work,
act perfectly happy. Five o'clock would hit. I would just
cry and then I couldn't go home, so I would
just drive until eight or nine was dark. I couldn't
go to my friend's house and cry because all their
kids were missing my kids, right, so I know where
to go and crying because I didn't want upset with

(51:23):
the kids, because all these kids loved me. Because anyways, So,
but that's where he started labeling me as I'm like,
I am not cold. I mean I'm still surviving.

Speaker 5 (51:31):
Right, Yeah, that's not dependency.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
No, plus you'd already been divorced.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
He said, I depend on my children. I think, okay, okay,
because I can't. And I'm like, but I mean working,
I was still working, like working full time.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
These are my children that I should be nurturing and
taking care.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Of and not even to go bye. Then I got
in trouble. They set up a perfume on their stuff
outside when I had to take it all outside, and
I did put notes. I put notes I love you,
I put in their bibles, or I put it in
their PlayStation. They had give them and then I got
in trouble for it. What why were you in trouble
for a mom said, I love you.

Speaker 4 (52:03):
Yeah, that's happened to another creator that I'm friends with
on TikTok, who has gone through something similar as you.
Very very abusive X definitely took kids, manipulated her course
or manipulated the court system, and she did something similar
and yeah, got reprimanded for that.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
And I didn't put perfume on them. Another woman did
that got her kids taken away at the same time. Yeah,
so they actually mixed the stories up because the same jail.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
I mean, I had a similar circumstance. You know, when
I was going when my son got taken away, I
was like, because I you know, I quit my job,
you know, I was going to move and things didn't.

Speaker 3 (52:39):
Work out with the way that they should.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
So I wasn't working at the time, and I was like, oh, well,
I'll just go volunteer. It is preschool, you know, that's
something for me to do. Nope, they put a stop
to it. They wouldn't allow it. They would not allow it.
And so I mean, I know, I know to some
degree just what that feels like to just to all
your options just completely stripped from you.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
If I was convicted, I've actually legally charged, my trial
would have been way faster and I would have more
rights to my children if it was in the criminal world.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:12):
I say that all the time. It's like there is
absolutely no due process in family court.

Speaker 5 (53:17):
There's no real due process.

Speaker 4 (53:19):
None of the protections of the due process are available
in family court.

Speaker 5 (53:25):
And I think that is a huge issue. Like what
immediately should have happened in your situation was that there
should have been a speedy jury trial where the evidence
was presented if these things were true or false.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Right, my mom hired a turn ever happened for ten
thousand dollars, and that attorney could have appealed it within
fourteen days, no in anything, and then she just left
a month later and still lost all the money.

Speaker 3 (53:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:46):
Yeah, that's also something that we hear too, just attorneys
kind of abandoning cases, not following through.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
And then they set it up. They set it up
to where when I finally took everything away child support
and knew I lost everything, and then they set the
trial up for August as January, I last my kids August.
Then they put in sepulations that I would have reunification
therapy with my children and then the therapists will be
able to testify in court. Guess when they finally put

(54:14):
in reunification therapists in July twenty seventh, oh twenty second.

Speaker 5 (54:19):
Yeah, and now they pulled the whole wall. You've been
away from them for too long, so you have to
do reunification there.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
And then I had to go through some July to
US December personal sessions to see how if I could
handle talking to my children. Then that was like every
week I was there going, Oh.

Speaker 4 (54:35):
My gosh, your nervous system, I can't even imagine that,
like because you know you're being evaluated and the pressure
that that must be, Like if I do one wrong thing,
how are they going to twist it? How are they
going to misinterpret it? How is this going to be presented?

Speaker 5 (54:51):
Right?

Speaker 4 (54:51):
Also knowing the kids have completely been psychologically coerced and enabled.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Too, Yeah, because they were completely gone.

Speaker 4 (54:58):
Yeah, because I mean they can't hear your side of
the story. I mean not that you would parentify them
in that way, but they can't experience you being a
loving caregiver, which is the only way that you can
essentially fight that narrative right right.

Speaker 5 (55:12):
Right, and that's taken from you.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
When I did finally see my twins later on, you
can tell they're mad at me. And my daughter did
say you let this happen because they're being told I
wasn't doing on I was supposed to be doing to
see them. Mom's not going to do in her stop
the court said she needs to do this, she's not. Yes,
I am, and not to mention my ex filed to
I'm in court in Missouri because he filed before my
child sport was taken away to take my maintenance away.

(55:35):
So I'm in two different courts. I have two different
attorneys email me constantly. So all of a sudden, the
Kansas court said, oh, take a child sport away because
she still has a three thousand dollars maintenance live off
of okay, which was but he filed, right, well, it
cand of maintained your home when you relied on that money, right,
And I just bought this home then. But my axe
had filed a month later or a month earlier to

(55:58):
cancel my maintenance. But the told the other court that
it's still there, it's always going to be there.

Speaker 4 (56:03):
So now i got s oh gosh, I can't even
imagine one court system and one jurisdiction is dysfunctional enough,
but then having two courts that somehow have to communicate
with each other or know what's going on, there's no way.

Speaker 2 (56:16):
And the lawyers lie to each other.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Yeah, I mean they either lie to each other or
they're reve and elbows with each other. And you're both
both ways, you're doomed.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
I just had court last week in the Missouri and
I had to do trial a pre trial, and his
my ex's attorney looked at the judge and said, oh,
their case is closed indefinitely. I said, it is not
so my story. It's sicker because their demanding. I paid
g alfas all these fees to the same man that

(56:45):
never questioned me if the accusations were true, to the
same man and therapist that new DCF came back saying
I was a great mother. I as stare presentators know
me personally been in my home that wrote letters. I
have so much solid evidence as a mom. I can't
pay all this money. So I filed a motion with
a judge telling him I cannot afford these j G

(57:06):
A L fees. He said, okay, we'll handle that during trial.
Then I had to move trial back from August. How
am I supposed to go to trial? Have this three
utification therapist tell the judge the truth about me and
my children, how we interact together. Oh, I haven't seen them.
Still got pushed back, so pre trial to January's back January.

Speaker 5 (57:29):
Now it's been a year since you've seen your kids.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
So then we have pre trial finally thinking hoping, No,
I'm hearing, Oh, we're gonna do it April twenty second,
which is funny as Karen Reid. You guys know Karen
read story. Karen reads is April twenty seventh, and her
whole life changed on January twenty ninth too. But April
twenty second, I cried, they but not cried, but I was,
your honor, Can we have it sooner? Year? Oh? No,

(57:56):
April twenty second, never go. That was it. And then
April first, I find out the judge canceled the trial,
the four day trial because I didn't pay thirteen thousand
dollars in attorney fees for the gl No one told me.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
Yeah, And that's the other thing that they do to you.
If the judge orders a gall or what in Kentucky.
A lot of times it's called a friend of the court,
which they have a little bit of it's a little
bit different. The FOC is not actually an attorney for
the child. They're just like a court investigator. But if
you can't pay the fees, okay, well you just this

(58:32):
is stuck.

Speaker 5 (58:32):
Then it's stalled.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
And I think that's one thing through this whole process,
because I had one ratification that they have recanceled because
I owed five hundred dollars and I mean, you know,
I don't pay for my kids expenses, but I pay
way more in the therapy stuff. And this whole time,
my children are still seeing the therapist that they're not
supposed to be seen anymore. Anyway, it gets complicated with that.
But now it's becoming pro SAE and learning my rights.

(58:57):
If a therapist cancels your session because you don't have
the money to see your child, that's illegal. You hold
them accountable. You tell them in the email you will
go in to report them. And guess what, I still
see my child every week unification therapy. He's not billing
me anymore. I spent ten thousand dollars just to see
my kids in reunification therapy. But what they're doing is

(59:19):
completely illegal. And once you've learned that, just to even
a simple email to a therapist that they're violating your
rights as a mother, they start changing, They start being scared.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
Yeah, So take us down this way, us down the
hope journey.

Speaker 4 (59:36):
Yes, yeah, because so this is where for our listeners
we start finding some empowerment. Yes, and you are doing
some unbelievable, unbelievable things at the federal level to fight
for your children, to get your children back, and to
change precedent so that this doesn't happen God forbid to

(01:00:00):
anyone else in the future, because if you're changing precedent
at the federal level, then that can be cited as
case law. Right exactly, these things aren't going to fly
in the lower courts anymore if there's federal precedent change.
So tell us about these lawsuits, tell us about your
journey of learning the law.

Speaker 5 (01:00:20):
I think.

Speaker 4 (01:00:22):
If we weren't in the psychiatric ward RAINA, this is
probably the route that we would have taken. Like we
would have I probably would have done the same thing, Meg.
I would have quit my job, and I would have
learned to be an attorney. To fight for my kids.
And that's essentially what you've done. So tell us about
this journey.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
You know, when I realized, I've always been like you too.
You can learn yourself. I can change Florine, I can
change an outlet. Right when I was realizing that these
attorneys were so not very smart, not saying all attorneys.
They are a great attorneys, right, but I was like,
something's off here. So then I started going to I
can't afford case law. You look all the cases. So
I found court listener. It's called and that's a nonprofit

(01:00:56):
organization called Free Law. They believe everyone should know the
right to read any case they so court listeners are
a great thing I love. I'm so thankful for them.
But you can go on there and search any case
and read. And people don't realize that when if a
judge in a federal court, for instance, deny somebody's motion,
the judge will tell you what they did wrong. So

(01:01:16):
that's how I started learning. I started fighting. I started
reading cases every day. I wake up on the weekends.
There's no I don't have a weekend. I don't I
just learn every day, every single day, read the laws,
read my statues. So I've been fighting cases even in
my state that where somebody got their trial canceled because
of fees, and the Supreme Court came back saying, you

(01:01:38):
can't do that, it's unconstitutional. Okay. So I started learning.
And that's where when I've taught so many women just
to learn how to learn, because I'm not teaching you
with law. I'm teaching you where to go find it right,
go search the resources. That's all I'm teaching. And I've
had this one mother that lost her trial the same way,
and she's gone from being so scared when the therapists

(01:01:59):
mounts her that now she's like learned so much, empowered, empowered,
and she's not scared. She would leave her therapy crying. Megan,
she's totally gaslighting me. She said, I have a personality
disorder because I was just asking for my therapy notes.
And then the GAT the same JL says, because she
asked for her therapy notes, I think she's really going mental.
I'm not gonna let her see your daughter anymore. I

(01:02:20):
have that proof. She sounds corrupt, Yeah, really bad. Yeah,
it's very I went from this woman crying leaving a
therapist and now she's following her first federal lawsuit today.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
That's amazing. But she did it herself.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
I didn't tell her. I told her go study this,
study this, here's your statues. Go and I told websites, easy, anyone.
And she's like, Now she talks to me. You know,
when you're talking to a lawyer, you don't understand what
they're saying. And now when she calls me, she's like, well,
what about this complaint? What about this? You know, I
don't want to talk too big on that. The vocabulary
for law is a whole language. Sure, and now she's

(01:02:56):
talking the language and I'm just so proud of her.
And that's like she could believe that. And that's where
I think the hope is, when you start learning your rights,
they start stepping back. I've helped a few men learn
how to stand up and read their law. What did
your state? When anyone asked me anything, what's your state laws?

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Day?

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Well, I don't know, we'll go look it.

Speaker 5 (01:03:13):
Up, right.

Speaker 4 (01:03:14):
I know that there was so many violations in my case.
There were so many violations of like local court rules
and stuff like the attorneys not filing things on time
and things should have proceeded. And then judges pushing back,
pushing back, pushing back, pushing back, giving and my gosh,
this is hard because my ex. One of the things

(01:03:37):
that I was pushing for so hard was drug and
alcohol testing because I knew that he was using, I
knew that he was an active addiction, and he was.
I don't know how he passed his alcohol tests. I
don't know, if he had somebody pee for him, I
don't know, but you know, all of his alcohol tests
after the first one he failed, came back clean. And
so of course they didn't believe me, right, And then

(01:03:58):
his attorney, you know, broke the local rules and didn't
have a response in on time. And instead of proceeding
with our trial to you know, me, show my evidence
and to hopefully get this drug and alcohol testing and
get custody of my children because he was driving with
them drunk and you know, putting them at.

Speaker 5 (01:04:16):
Risk, it got pushed back.

Speaker 4 (01:04:17):
Well guess what he odd and that two week pushback,
and that was not the first pushback, and it was like,
you know, someone had to die for you know, the
truth to come out.

Speaker 5 (01:04:31):
And that is not okay.

Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
No, none of what we're talking about today is okay.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
It's not.

Speaker 4 (01:04:37):
And this is in a system that is supposed to
be supposed to protect the best interest of children, and
how they get it wrong nearly every single time is
freaking baffling to me. And the last thing I want
to give our listeners is no hope for getting a divorce.
There is hope, but we also have to be very

(01:04:59):
very aware because being aware and empowered going in and
that's what you're doing is like people, if you know
your rights, if you know your rights, which I didn't
know my rights.

Speaker 5 (01:05:08):
I had no idea what my rights were.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
And that's what I tell people, even before you file
for divorce, go learn before you have to leave. Go
learn before you do it, because you will actually have
They will respect your rights if you state them right.

Speaker 4 (01:05:20):
And that as a solution here. That is the solution
here that we want to present to our listeners. So
you know, maybe for people this can be prevented because
your rights have been violated up and down, right and left,
and you have figured that out and now you are
suing at the federal level.

Speaker 5 (01:05:36):
So tell us about those lawsuits.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
I'm suing, so I'm not suing the judge because those
are harder and I don't even want to go down
that room. But I'm suing the gl with DCF Department
of Chance because DCF didn't tell the court that I
was not I was a good mom, and the gl
with held the good mom from the court. And then
I'm suing the therapist as well. I have a lawsuit

(01:06:00):
about to put in against my ex and his wife
for conspiracy, fraud, violations on my children's rights. All that's big.
You know. My families are part of that because I
will tell you ninety eight percent of people I talked
to on through similar situations they have family members that
turn on them.

Speaker 4 (01:06:16):
Yes, And you know, I think what people don't understand
about true And I'm not diagnosing your ex.

Speaker 5 (01:06:23):
This is not a diagnosis. This is a general statement, okay,
not pointing fingers. What they do not understand about psychopaths
is that psychopaths are so cold and so calculated, and
they're so different than sociopaths. Like sociopaths are so impulsive
and they trip up and they make mistakes. True psychopaths

(01:06:44):
they play the long game.

Speaker 4 (01:06:46):
They're calculated, They plan, and they cross their t's and
dot their eyes, you know, and then they get away
with that stuff because they're not acting on impulse. They're
acting from a place of true hold hearted calculated manipulation.
They they have no empathy. It does not exist within them.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
Does it make him happy when he sees me upset?

Speaker 4 (01:07:09):
It's all about control. It's not necessarily happiness. Essentially, they
have to know that they have control or else they
feel completely empty, like the only thing that makes them
feel satisfied. And of course there's so many different presentations
of this, but is just knowing that they have control, right,
because the emptiness makes them feel so out of control.
They have no sense of identity. They have no sense

(01:07:31):
of you know, true reality of like human quality, right,
like human.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
And that's why they're good, because they love their cross stence.

Speaker 5 (01:07:41):
They thrive on it. It actually, you know, it feels
temporarily fills their inner emptiness. And so you know, we're
not talking about just somebody here with like NPD, Like
we're talking about people with like ASPD traits and people
who have like the dark triad Macavelianism, which is, you know,

(01:08:01):
the desire to truly coerce and manipulate and hurt people.
And if you're dealing with somebody who's at that level,
the amount of pain the amount of illegality they're willing
to risk, the amount of pain that they can inflict.
It's incomprehensible. And so.

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
You know, I never make money.

Speaker 4 (01:08:22):
I've never met I've never met a true psychopath face
to face. I don't think my ex was a psychopath.
I think he had MPD. But you know, I can't
give your ex that diagnosis.

Speaker 5 (01:08:32):
But if that is what you are experiencing, it all
lines up with the way that they work and what
they will do and the lengths that they will go
to to hurt someone and to have that power and control.

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
And manipulate so many other people in the process.

Speaker 4 (01:08:47):
Yeah, it's whatever carnage is there. The kids, it doesn't
matter because they don't feel true intimate connection, they don't
feel true love, they don't feel the normal things for
their children that normal parents would.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
So then after all of this, I had ten years
with my children, right, and I know they'll be back
one day. Yeah, and I know all how grandkids. What
does in your opinion, when children go through this and
have one parent that is completely different. I'm not going
to diagnose no one either completely different. How do children start?
I mean, are they going to be is my kids
going to be damaged forever or you know what I mean,

(01:09:21):
does that make sense?

Speaker 4 (01:09:22):
I think that they're probably going to need a lot
of support because what I usually see happen in these
cases is that when children realize that they had been
manipulated and that the narrative of the parent who they
have been alienated against was not the bad parent, it's
like their world just kind of shatters because like everything

(01:09:45):
they know to be true is now not true, and
they will need some.

Speaker 5 (01:09:48):
Support through that. But usually they are very willing.

Speaker 4 (01:09:51):
To rebond and reattach with the parent that they have
been alienated against. And so that that's good news for
you because they will eventually be old enough where you're
not in the family court system anymore. And so although
you know.

Speaker 5 (01:10:12):
It makes me release so sad for you that you're
missing out on so much of their childhood, my girl,
there's going to be a day where they are going
to wake up and they're going to go, oh, my god,
this narrative that I have been given about my mother
was never true, and I missed out on these years

(01:10:33):
with my mother. But the research does show that when
they find I mean that the rebonding and the reattaching
can occur. And that's the beautiful, beautiful thing about attachment,
and that's what my whole platform is about, is attachment.
Attachment is flexible until the day that you die. And
so there will I know it. I feel it in

(01:10:54):
my heart that they're going to reattach to you and
that you are going to have years and years and
years with them where they that you will get to
make up somewhat for this lost time.

Speaker 3 (01:11:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
Can I say one thing. I'm so proud of my kids.
Oh yeah, my daughter has my oldest has over one
hundred and twenty thousand followers on YouTube.

Speaker 3 (01:11:14):
Oh wow.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
And she went through a really dark sight. That's a
whole other story. But she went the really dark depression,
trying and allow herself multiple times, hanging off a bridge
because she told the please her dad thing the stuff
to her when she was a kid.

Speaker 5 (01:11:25):
But and then she'll has custody.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
Is she aligned with him because he threw in foster
and I thought she was going to a mental hospital,
look like I couldn't afford her a nice one. And
then she kept to them to kill herself, like literally
hanging off a bridge and the cops are holding onto
her through all this. But that's how this all really started.

Speaker 5 (01:11:42):
See, this is the collateral damage to kids. And where
are the family court judges? Where are the judges? Where
are the people standing up and saying, look at how
the kids are being affected. Of course, if you are
ripped away from your primary attachment and placed with a
serious abuser and manipulator, you are going to go through

(01:12:03):
some serious mental and psychiatric struggles. Of course, where is
the support for these children?

Speaker 3 (01:12:09):
It's not there.

Speaker 5 (01:12:10):
It's not there.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
It's like the state made me get my daughter my
rights away because I couldn't afford to put her in
mental hospital. But yet the friend and their in SIIC
interview proved he did it. Prosecutor in Missouri was trying
to go after him. Kansas didn't care. But and they
told me, you have to give them up to the
state so she can get mental help. It was my

(01:12:32):
exit to this. He put her in foster to shut
her up. She's fourteen sick, so but she was in foster,
and then they wouldn't let me talk to my daughter.
So I haven't actually talked to my oldest since August
twenty twenty three because that's when she wouldn't stay care
and then they let him do they let him talk.
I wasn't allowed. I don't know why, so they got hurt.

(01:12:55):
She what did she have to do, Let's say, stay
in foster care with seven other kids two hours away
or moving with my rich dad. Suck up to him?
So she did, and I'm happy the abuser, yeah, the abuser. Yeah.
And so now you know. So that's why I wanted
to help tell her. I love her and I'm proud
of her. She looks she's so good on YouTube, she's

(01:13:16):
like making a really good living and she's seventeen and
she looks just like me. So it's really hard to
go on YouTube because the first day I see is her.
But I want her to know I didn't give up
on her. Yeah, she did email me, mom, why did
you put me in here? Like I did it?

Speaker 3 (01:13:29):
And I wouldn't allow to reply back to her email.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
That she hid to me because they stay told me.
The attorneys in the state told me if I told
you was probably back, I would lose all my four children.

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):
I'll listen to that point three.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
So she doesn't even know the truth because I you
know so well, you.

Speaker 5 (01:13:44):
Have one more year, and she can't know the truth. Right,
she'll be eighteen, she'll be ouble see.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
But she's she's still probably she's spend years of her
thinking that I just pushed her off. Why would you
side with my father and I go I didn't, but
I couldn't tell her that. So we she'll listen to this,
That's what I'm saying. She's she's so big on YouTube.
I'm so proud of her, and I want her and
I want I wanted her to know, like I'm so
proud of all my children, my twins are the most amazing.

Speaker 5 (01:14:04):
Give me her YouTube. I'll tiger.

Speaker 4 (01:14:06):
I'll tiger in our podcast past we want to what
do you want to say to her if we tag her?

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
I want to tell her that I'm really proud that
she looks so good in her YouTube. Is so I'm
so proud of how she's doing her YouTube. She's doing
a seventeen and it's so girl. It's not sexual, it's
not anything but a really awesome girl trying to help
other girls do makeup. It's she didn't go down a
bad route on the social media. She could be making
fun of people. You know, her content is so authentic

(01:14:32):
and beautiful and she's gorgeous, and I'm really proud of
what she's doing in her life. And one day I
want her to know that she's always welcome and I
never gave up on her.

Speaker 5 (01:14:45):
We're going to do that.

Speaker 4 (01:14:46):
We're going to tag her in this post because let them.
Let them come after me.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
She hasn't blocked me, so I think that she's okay
with me. See, she knows I can see it. At
least she hasn't blocked me. So that's why I constantly
see m hm hm.

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
But yeah, and if you could say anything to your
other children, what would you want to say?

Speaker 3 (01:15:05):
All of them?

Speaker 2 (01:15:06):
Braiden Tristan. I see Tristan.

Speaker 3 (01:15:10):
Every week.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
He was the only kid of mine that when they
got in the car after leaving their fathers, that kids
would all be questioning, Mom, did you do this?

Speaker 1 (01:15:16):
Mom?

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
Dad said this? Shelley said this. Tristan would be the one. No, guys,
you know mom, Yeah, he has an old soul.

Speaker 3 (01:15:23):
Yeah. Well, and he's been in contact with you, so
that says something, right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:27):
But he didn't get manipulated to not be in contact.
The other ones did. He didn't, And so he sees
me every week. We say I had the hour so
he's I love him and I miss him like we
just I just told him and we sit and talk
and we used to play VR together, all of us. Anyway,
the twins, that's hard because it's Braiden. They're both in
competitive and they're so talented. I haven't been able to

(01:15:47):
see my twins dance on stage once, and they've won
a lot, like big, big things. They took all that,
and so I want to tell my twins. I want to.
I'm still proud. They're they're amazing. Yeah, and when I
see them on stage a friend will send me video.
It kills me sure because I didn't know they could

(01:16:07):
do an aerial. I didn't know they could do this splitz. Right,
My twins went from zero dance to the point of
the best competitive dancers for their age, and I can't
tell them that. Yeah, they have a gift anyway, But yeah,
I think that's just My door's always open. Yeah, I
don't care if they've talked bad about me or told
therapist lies or whatever. Right, my door's always open. My
heart's always there and it will never be shut no

(01:16:28):
matter what happens.

Speaker 4 (01:16:29):
And for anybody that's just having an ounce of questioning,
like is this person legit? Like, is this her side
of the story really true? Listen, I have seen parental alienation.
It's happened to me. My ex tried to alienate my
oldest daughter from me. I lived what it looks like
for a child to be manipulated against a parent, and

(01:16:53):
a child being forced to lie. I've seen it with
my own eyes. I've had clients who have had it happen.
It happens every single day because she'll N's psyches are
very easily manipulated. And so if you're like, Okay, well,
how can all her kids like be against her? Listen,
it only takes one master manipulator to orchestrate this entire thing.
And so you're on here because it does sound implausible, right,

(01:17:17):
it does sound like how this?

Speaker 5 (01:17:18):
How in the heck could this truly happen?

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
When the children are told that if you tell a
lie or tell don't tell this about your mother, you're
going to foster. Right, of course, they live because they
saw their small sister tell the truth. I wasn't even
with her when she went to the police. They saw
their sister tell the truth, and she went to foster.

Speaker 1 (01:17:35):
Yeah, so they live in fear you're living in fear,
and it's it's just incredibly unfair. But there is hope, obviously.
I think that, you know, Meg's talked about that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
There is a lot of hope that I will say
the challenge I've gone through of losing my children's horde,
that God has taken something to good. Yeah, because guess
what I'm here with you guys. That's right, and more
people are going to become unaware of it.

Speaker 3 (01:17:57):
That's exactly right.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
And I'm helping more people, more kids, it's more parents.
I literally FaceTime with other moms that got their kids
back and their kid wanted to meet me on FaceTime,
and that right there, I have to I have to
give up my children for this empowering. But I'm helping
and we're changing, and you guys are changing in it
because we're this. So it's horrible what we go through

(01:18:19):
in life, but let's turn it to good and change
help and help everybody else. Then you're not we have
less women hurt themselves. Are men do things that children?
You know? Anyway, I just it sounds so sad with
everything gone through, but you know, everything bad, you can
make it amazing if you just keep fighting hard. And
we never give up.

Speaker 3 (01:18:38):
There's always you.

Speaker 5 (01:18:40):
You can't give up, and I've said that before. You
have to fight.

Speaker 4 (01:18:43):
So Meg, tell us about these federal lawsuits, because, as
we mentioned before, it's not just about getting your kids back,
it's about making sure that the lack of due process
does not cause another mother or father to have their
kids stripped from them under false allegations, because false allegations
are probably I would say the number one problem in

(01:19:06):
family court. Family court is the only place where people
can come in and lie through their teeth and there
absolutely is no consequence for doing so. So tell us
about these federal lawsuits and what you're hoping to gain
from them.

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
With the federal lawsuits, I'm also focusing on the due
process and a lot of people are like, what's due process?
It means putting the laws of evidence in, meaning someone
should have been on the witness stand. So if anyone's
taking the children away, did someone get on the witness stand?
If they didn't testify under oath that it's true. It's
kind of like when of what women gets raped, they

(01:19:39):
have to get up and testify, and a lot of
times they don't want to, so they just drop it,
right same thing. It should happen with children. So the
other one is freedom of speech. The reason they want
us to have these gag orders on us because the
more we talk, the more they're going to be exposed.

Speaker 4 (01:19:53):
Right Yeah, and I know that that was the case.
And you know my custody battle was it was like, no,
you can't talk to anybody about it. I mean maybe
your personal therapist. She can't talk to your friends. You're
not supposed to talk to your mom.

Speaker 5 (01:20:06):
You can't.

Speaker 4 (01:20:07):
Which is you know, if you have a media platform,
you can't speak out, you can't do anything. And even
if there's all this corruption, and you think, well I
need to fight back and I need people to know
that there's this corruption, they will use that against you.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
I had a mother just text me on the way
here yesterday. Her she had three kids, to twiplets and
the five year old. Her husband left for a whole
year with a girlfriend in Europe. And I've looked at
her case, so I know she's true. He came back,
the girlfriend wanted him, took the kids away, and yesterday
she said, I can't speak on social anymore. They're threatening me.
And she hasn't seen her kids. She's a beautiful young girl,
but that is huge. They don't want us to talk.

(01:20:44):
And that's what happened to me. I was on a
private on Facebook, private little group of friends. I was upset.
I needed someone to talk to your of course, and
it would be like a text mestered email. It was private.
My ex logs into everything, found it. Told the courts
they try to put me in contemp put in jail.
My friends are putting bail money together, all because I
said something in a private message on Facebook. So that's

(01:21:09):
where I.

Speaker 4 (01:21:09):
Was like, what, yeah, stamily, court will gag you. And
that's the very first thing. Even when you oftentimes sign
on with a returney an attorney and get a retainer
going with them, they will make you sign something saying
I agree to not speak about this.

Speaker 2 (01:21:23):
And so that's why my attorney dropped me a month
after because she's.

Speaker 5 (01:21:27):
Like, oh yeah, I've done that twice.

Speaker 3 (01:21:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
And I think ultimately the biggest change has to come,
like you said, with the due process, getting the proper
people in place, but to ultimately protect the children, because
the children are really the ones that are suffering here.

Speaker 3 (01:21:42):
Obviously you've suffered.

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
And I'll get over it. I'm an adult, I'm a child.
You have more capacity to deal with it. And I honestly,
I think you and I talked about this once. I
believe this system is starting to make these children have
relationship problems.

Speaker 5 (01:21:55):
Oh oh, I mean yes, until.

Speaker 2 (01:21:58):
The generation our next gen.

Speaker 4 (01:22:00):
Right, I mean, we're screwing over a whole generation of
kids with family court because we're causing them such attachment
issues because somebody who has an enormous amount of power
and doesn't know jack crap about what's really going on,
makes these life altering decisions that affect these kids for
the rest of their lives.

Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
And let's talk about the foundation though. The foundation truly
is marriage, and and that's why it's important to pick
a good partner, you know, and to have you know,
talk about due process, have some due process when it
comes to who you decide to live your life with,
you know, and who you decide, you know, to reproduce with.

Speaker 3 (01:22:38):
And I say that with no judgment because we've all
sat here and reproduced with shitty.

Speaker 2 (01:22:41):
People, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:22:42):
So I'm just like, we can't judge it.

Speaker 3 (01:22:44):
You're right, like, so you have to, you know. I
think it starts at that core level.

Speaker 4 (01:22:49):
You know, becoming attachment secure before you get into a
relationship in a marriage, because so many of us, you know,
maybe we had some good childhoods or even good childhoods,
but we might still have some issues that we need
to work on and work through, and we're seeking out
relationships that are oh.

Speaker 5 (01:23:07):
I'm so ex yeah, you know, Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:23:11):
I was twenty three. I made one mistake, I married
one person wrong in my life.

Speaker 4 (01:23:14):
I was twenty two, right, you know, it's like you
don't you don't know jack nothing at twenty twos, anything
twenty two, And then you're falling in love and then
there's all this pressure your friends are getting married. So
then you want to be you know, not left out,
and you want to get married. And you know, I mean,
you think it's safe to be pregnant or in your case,
you know, someone is you know, essaying you and continually

(01:23:37):
you know, impregnating you, and not that you would take
back any of your children, but you know it's.

Speaker 1 (01:23:44):
The answer, So what is the answer? Divorce sometimes is
the answer. But and so therefore when it is, there
has to be something in a place that makes it protective, right,
And I think that that's your overall goal in trying
to advocate for change at.

Speaker 3 (01:23:59):
The level because I mean, we all know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:04):
And again I'll say, just the video that you posted
this week, you can go on there and just read
the comments. This is a reoccurring theme that tons of
people are going through and so it needs to be changed.
There needs to reform, needs to happen, and that Yeah,
and I think, you know, again going back to the
silver lining.

Speaker 3 (01:24:22):
Of it all, or the hope in it all, is that.

Speaker 1 (01:24:26):
Really beautiful things can come from really really hard things.
And I think that's why you deserve just so much
recognition and so much validation here, Meg, because what you're
doing coming from a place of I can't imagine the pain.
I mean that's extreme pain. And you are now speaking out.

(01:24:50):
Advocating for yourself is one thing, but you're advocate, you're
advocating for so many, For every person, yeah, and every.

Speaker 2 (01:24:57):
Every children, Yeah, every parent discriminating against anything. If it's
a good parent that wants to fight for the child,
that child has a right to see both parents.

Speaker 4 (01:25:05):
This is not a mom issue or a dad issue.
This is a parental issue, and each parent has rights
to their child.

Speaker 2 (01:25:12):
Are your children? Where are my children's rights.

Speaker 3 (01:25:14):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, child's right to be with loving parents.

Speaker 2 (01:25:19):
And have access to them, you know. And that's what
the federal cases that are really emphasizing on that because
there's so many attorneys. I'm so I'm soon the next
one is soon my excess attorneys. Because if that my
ex attorney knows my divorce to create, knows the abuse,
but she still represents him, that's a violation. So that's

(01:25:40):
taking my rights away. So that's that's and that's I mean,
I Sunday, I decided. On Monday, I'm driving DC Dribole, DC.
Met Rand Paul, one of our big.

Speaker 5 (01:25:50):
Hunger steads are Kentucky.

Speaker 2 (01:25:53):
Met and talked to him three times, walked within the halls.

Speaker 3 (01:25:55):
That's great.

Speaker 2 (01:25:56):
Hey remember me. Yeah, we haven't met with my office,
I know, but I'm still here, right, you know, have
a card. I don't have a card.

Speaker 5 (01:26:03):
I'm a mom.

Speaker 2 (01:26:04):
Yeah, once my kids all right? Rits back Eric Smith,
he's in Missouri. So I slept in my car with
all the truckers McDonald's, you know, all my back. And
if a parent's finding that hard for your shot their children,
that's not a bad parent.

Speaker 3 (01:26:18):
Hell to the now, Hell to the no, no, thank
you so much, thank you for telling your story, for
being here today.

Speaker 1 (01:26:25):
We are so appreciative and I know this will be
so valuable to our listeners, and listen you guys, stay
tuned because this series will continue. We're going to have
more wonderful guests. Sarah and I are going to get
a little bit more in depth about our own stories.
I've never really gotten in depth about my personal story,
but that's to come.

Speaker 3 (01:26:45):
And of course our next guest is.

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
Going to be an attorney, so there's going to be
so much valuable information, so stay tuned. Of course, I
always have to do a shameless plug and if you
are looking for really I mean, doctor Hensley helps with this.

Speaker 5 (01:27:02):
I can help with it.

Speaker 4 (01:27:03):
I don't give any legal advice, no, but I can
help you emotionally cope through the divorce process. And I
do try to connect people with outside resources, you know,
for things that I can't help with, but or saving
your marriage so that you don't have to go through
a divorce because family court is unpredictable. And I don't

(01:27:27):
want people to be discouraged from getting a divorce if
they need to get a divorce. Because my divorce was
like I said, one of the best things that ever
happened to me. But at the end of the day,
we need to know, you know, what can happen. I mean,
your story is it isn't the usual, but it's not
the usual strain. It's the extreme side of what can happen.

(01:27:48):
But I think we need to know that this is
happening to people. And even if it's you know, okay,
let's say it's half a percent of everybody that gets
a divorce, that's still a hell of a lot of people.

Speaker 5 (01:28:01):
Yeah, right, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
Actually two percent they say are bad. Two percent of
all divorces are horrible. If you take how many get divorced, that's.

Speaker 3 (01:28:08):
Still a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:28:09):
There's still a lot of people and a.

Speaker 2 (01:28:10):
Lot of children. Take that time, sow many children in one.

Speaker 4 (01:28:13):
Case, right, And and the majority of people go on
and get divorced, and yeah, maybe there's tension, and yeah,
maybe they don't really like their ex, but it all
ends up working out pretty well. You know, they have
a co parenting relationship, and you know they may not
like yeah, and everybody cooperates and it ends up being okay.

Speaker 5 (01:28:30):
But the system is so flawed. If it's not okay,
it's really not okay.

Speaker 3 (01:28:35):
That's right, and so you can walk people through that emotion.

Speaker 5 (01:28:37):
Yes I can. Of course, we'll fold your hand through it,
and that's right.

Speaker 3 (01:28:41):
For all of our listeners.

Speaker 1 (01:28:42):
We offer promo code love dot twenty seven for twenty
seven percent off any of doctor Hensley's services, So please
go check her out at the love dot dot com.
Meg Where can our listeners find you?

Speaker 2 (01:28:51):
I stand with Meg on all platforms.

Speaker 3 (01:28:53):
I stand with Meg on all platforms.

Speaker 2 (01:28:55):
On the website. Stand with Meg dot com. Pretty simple, stand.

Speaker 5 (01:28:57):
With Meg dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:28:58):
So I found you on TikTok and your platforms are growing,
you know, and you know when we decide to have
guests on I usually only choose guests that have really
large platforms, but I was like, no, my my goal
here is too in large your platform because you know,
when I started following you a couple six months or
so ago, I said, this is the most horrific family

(01:29:20):
court case I've ever heard of in my life. And
you have so many videos of you with your children
playing and having fun and just your memories and pictures
and photographs, and there's no way that you can make
that up.

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
Well, right, do the crying ones so people can see
that that's real. They can cry and it's okay and
you'll get through it. But I wanted to say thank
you for supporting someone that is lower on the social media,
because when I find someone speaking up, I work my
butt off to help them get bigger.

Speaker 5 (01:29:49):
Right, Yeah, absolutely, that's our mission.

Speaker 4 (01:29:51):
I want you to have a voice for all of
those that are voiceless, that are fighting this exact same battle.
And you are fighting on the legal front without any
prior legal knowledge, who you have essentially self taught yourself
to be a lawyer.

Speaker 2 (01:30:07):
Well, I can teach myself how doing botox, the filler,
I can do with it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:12):
You're doing all the all the things. Actually, yeah, well
we're just sorry out that's funny.

Speaker 1 (01:30:19):
I like to end on a funny note anyway, So
thank you again for being here. Of course, listeners, go
check out meg, go check out doctor Hensley, and stay
tuned and until next time, peace, love and perspective.

All Episodes

Episode 5, Season II | "Stripped: A Family Court Crisis" With special guest Meg Miller from @standwithmeg

Episode Transcript

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 5, Season II | "Stripped: A Family Court Crisis" With special guest Meg Miller from @standwithmeg